Alvin Wayne on making social media the bedrock of his business [Rebroadcast]

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Trade Tales – Alvin Wayne on making social media the bedrock of his business

Podcast: Trade Tales
Host: Kaitlin Petersen, Business of Home
Guest: Alvin Wayne, Interior Designer
Original Air Date: December 31, 2025 (Rebroadcast of 2022 conversation)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Kaitlin Petersen sits down with New York-based designer Alvin Wayne to explore how social media became the foundation of his interior design business. Alvin shares insights on his transition from corporate fashion to design, the evolution of his client onboarding process, the realities of working solo, and how leveraging social media and brand partnerships has shaped his success—and redefined it on his own terms. The episode is a candid mix of practical business advice, personal anecdotes, and Alvin’s signature straightforward, authentic approach.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Alvin’s Journey: From Fashion to Interior Design

• Initial Career Path: Grew up rearranging rooms but initially aimed to be a physical therapist before pivoting to healthcare management; inspired by design shows like Trading Spaces (02:09).
• Retail Roots: Stayed in luxury retail after college due to the recession; skills from retail (doing windows, building props) translated directly to staging and design (03:09).
• Moving to New York & Going All-In: After relocating, Alvin launched his own practice while still working retail before fully committing during the pandemic (03:48-04:46).
  • Quote: “I needed to make a decision, like, are you going to go interior design full-time? ... I realized I really wanted the freedom to be able to live the life that I wanted to live, because life is too short.” (04:03)

Business Structure & Client Process Evolution

• Website as a Commitment: Launched his site in 2014, marking a serious commitment (05:16).
• Financial Preparation: Paid off student loans before leaving corporate; focused first on financial security (05:16).
• Workflow Streamlining: Now skips discovery calls; initial inquiry includes upfront pricing, and the (paid) consultation is the primary filter (06:39-07:39).
  • Quote: “It's like you either want me or you don’t. We do the consultation and I decide whether I want to work with you or not. … It’s a New York thing.” (00:02, 07:32)
• Charging for Consultations: Consultations are paid, and some clients need only advice and don’t proceed further; contracts and retainers must be in hand before moving to design plans (08:46-11:34).
  • Quote: "You’re going to sign a design contract and you’re going to pay me my retainer. ... Then I ask for at least two weeks to come up with a design plan." (10:50)

Emphasis on In-Stock Retail & Pandemic Pivots

• Retail Sourcing: A pandemic-driven focus on choosing retail pieces, especially in-stock items, has helped streamline projects and improve client satisfaction by avoiding long waits (12:19-13:42).
  • Quote: “I learned to pick things that are in stock. ... That's a pandemic pivot.” (12:19)
• Breaking the Stigma: Alvin is unapologetic about using retail; emphasizes skill in curation and creative assembly over the source or price of pieces (36:48-39:38).
  • Quote: “These retailers, they do make quality pieces. ... It's all about how you put things together. ... My whole bedroom is all CB2, but you wouldn't know it unless I tell you.” (36:48)

Working Solo and Carefully Scaling

• Lean Team Philosophy: Prefers to work alone, with part-time assistance; values control and creative clarity (14:29-15:39).
• Creativity & Rest: Needs periods of rest and minimal distraction for creative work—best ideas come while traveling or relaxing (16:22-17:44).
  • Quote: “I have to be at rest for me to create.” (16:22)

Client Relationships & Transparency

• Mutual Fit & Aesthetics: Social media presence acts as a prequal—allows clients to come in knowing his aesthetic and approach (19:18-20:10).
  • Quote: "If they follow me on social media ... they know what to expect. They know what they're getting." (19:18)
• Upfront Conversations on Money: No hesitation in discussing budget and pricing immediately; only takes on projects meeting his fee minimums (21:15-26:27).
  • Quote: “I'm having that conversation about money right from the beginning... And if you can’t, it’s okay.” (22:49)

Social Media as the Bedrock of Business

• Evolution of Strategy: Shifted from only posting work to showcasing personality; this attracted more followers and led to brand partnerships (27:16-27:29).
  • Quote: “I realized when I started showing more of who I was and my personality, that is when the followers came along. And that’s when brands started to take notice.” (27:16)
• Brand Partnerships: Organic, real-time tagging and sharing with brands led to lucrative collaborations (28:18).
  • Notable Partnership: Initiated partnership with CB2 by directly reaching out about a product, leading to a larger collaboration (27:29-28:18).
• Advice from Tyra Banks: “Different is better than better”—be yourself and show your process to connect with clients and brands (28:39).
• Content Authenticity: Prioritizes authentic posting over algorithms; posts when inspired, not just to fill a schedule (34:11-35:28).

Pivoting Business to Focus on Partnerships

• Strategic Selectivity: Aspires to do only a couple of major projects per year, focusing more on partnerships, blending them with client work for mutual benefit (31:51-32:53).
  • Quote: “...I want to be more selective about taking on projects... the rest is all brand partnership. ... For the client, they're like, I'm getting free stuff. And Kohler's like, I'm getting my content. So it's really a win-win situation for everyone.” (31:51-32:53)

Rethinking Success

• What Success Looks Like: Freedom—financial, creative, and personal—is Alvin's definition of success (42:03).
  • Quote: “Success is freedom...to just live life and be unapologetically myself. That is definitely success for me.” (42:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• No Discovery Call Policy:
  "I don't do a discovery call. It's like you either want me or you don't. We do the consultation and I decide whether I want to work with you or not. It's a New York thing." – Alvin Wayne (00:02, 07:32)

• On Growing into Confidence:
  "I wish I had more confidence in myself to be able to really lean into that I don't care side of me because I think that I don't care side of me enables me to have difficult conversations right off the bat." (41:29)

• Retail Can Be Luxe:
  “My whole bedroom is all CB2, but you wouldn’t know it unless I tell you. It’s all about how you mix things together, and it’s about mixing high and low.” (36:48)

• Power of Social Media Authenticity:
  “Different is better than better. ... people need to get to know me. ... Now when I show up in clients’ houses, they're like, yep, you're the same Alvin from Instagram. And I love it.” (28:39)

• On Limiting Client Numbers:
  "I want to be very selective ... only doing two major projects a year, and the rest is all brand partnership." (31:51)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• Alvin's Early Career + Design Beginnings (02:09–03:48)
• Pandemic Pivot & Full-time Design (04:03–04:46)
• Client Process Evolution & No-Discovery Call Approach (06:08–07:50)
• Paid Consultations & Project Workflow (08:46–12:17)
• Retail Sourcing Philosophy (12:19–14:20, 36:48–40:10)
• Working Solo, Control & Creativity (14:29–16:18)
• Creativity & Rest (16:22–17:44)
• Social Media Brand Partnerships Begin (27:16–28:18)
• Impact of Authentic Social Media Presence (28:39–30:29)
• Business Model Pivot to Brand Partnerships (31:51–32:53)
• Authenticity over Algorithms (34:11–36:30)
• Retail vs. Custom Debate (36:48–40:10)
• Defining Success (42:03)

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Conclusion

Alvin Wayne’s episode on Trade Tales is a masterclass in authenticity, boundary-setting, and leveraging the power of social media to redefine and grow a design business. From dispelling industry stigmas to integrating brand partnerships, Alvin’s story is both practical and inspiring, particularly for creatives looking to balance their art, values, and income on their own terms. His advice resonates for anyone aiming to build a business—and a life—rooted in clarity, confidence, and true individuality.

Transcript

[Alvin Wayne]

I don't do a discovery call. It's like you either want me or you don't. We do the consultation and I decide whether I want to work with you or not. It's a New York thing. It's like, okay, this is what it is. Can you do it? If you can, great. If not, call me when you can.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Hi, I'm Kaitlyn Peterson, the editor in Chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Deals.

[Caroline Burke]

As we wrap up the eighth season.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Of the show, we're taking a break this month to dream up even more great stories for you about building a better design business. In the meantime, I've picked out one of my favorite episodes from the show's archive to share with you today. It's my conversation with New York based designer Alvin Wayne from 2022, where we talked about how social media became the bedrock of his business. There are so many great lessons here about balancing a design firm with a robust Instagram presence, as well as strategies to think about if you're looking to show up differently online in the new year. We'll be back with an exciting batch of new episodes starting in Febr. But for now, enjoy the show. Hey designers. It's a new year, which means it's the perfect time to start thinking about what you really want from your business and also how you're going to get there. If you're ready to get some real momentum behind those goals, consider becoming a BoH insider. It's a membership program tailored to the needs of busy design professionals that gives you exclusive access to BOH reporting, as well as a weekly curriculum of online workshops led by some of the industry's most respected voices. Even better, you'll also get access to a rich archive of past courses so you can always find the guidance you need no matter what challenges you're navigating in your business. Explore the benefits of becoming a BoH Insider [e-mail] bohinsider.

[Alvin Wayne]

I did not always know I wanted to be a designer. The thing is, growing up I used to get in trouble for moving things around or rearranging my room. So I knew I've always been into it, but I didn't know that's what I wanted to do until later in life. I really wanted a career as a physical therapist. And then when I couldn't pass biology in college, I was like, okay, let me pivot. And then I went into healthcare management management while going to school. You know, that's when those shows like Trading Spaces came out and I was like, wow. So there's really an interior designer, like, kind of dictating what people would do within these spaces. And so I did some research, and I was like, okay, so I can go to school for this. So after I graduated with my degree in healthcare management, I went to SCAD and enrolled in the interior design program.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

That's Alvin Wain. While pursuing his interior design degree, he took a job in luxury fashion retail to support himself, then stuck around for longer than he intended.

[Alvin Wayne]

So when I graduated, it was a recession and nobody was hiring an interior designer. I just stayed working in luxury retail, and I kept getting promoted. I was always doing the windows, building props, making sure the environment of the store was beautiful. So all of those things that I actually do now as an interior designer, when it comes to staging, when it comes to making floor plans and creating renderings, to do the same thing when it came to working in the retail space. But that is how I ended up in New York. And then when I got here, I was like, okay, let's pivot. Let's really focus on what you really want to do and where your passion lies. And that is when Alvin Wayne interior started.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

In 2014, Alvin began taking on interior design clients while still holding on to his day job in fashion. Then the pandemic hit. Suddenly, the tug of war between the two careers gave way to a greater realization.

[Alvin Wayne]

I needed to make a decision, like, are you going to go interior design full time? Are you going to stay in fashion? Because I was kind of burning the candle at both ends. I think the pandemic made me focus on what I really wanted and my family and what was important to me. I realized I really wanted the freedom to be able to live the life that I wanted to live, because life is too short. It's not promised to you. And I think that whole pandemic just really showed that it kind of gives you the push to say, you know what? Let me just give it a try. Let me see what happens. I was already positioning myself to make that transition. It was just like, the perfect time to go ahead and do it.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

I wanted to talk to Alvin about dispelling the stigma around shopping retail, why he decided to ditch the discovery call, and how his social media presence became the centerpiece of his business.

[Caroline Burke]

You put up your website in 2014 and kind of officially announced to the world, look, I'm in business. Was that the moment that you knew in your mind that you were laying the framework to officially make the switch, or did that realization come later?

[Alvin Wayne]

I think when I put the website up that was the moment that I realized, like, hey, you have to take a chance on yourself, and you need to start working towards that goal. So that was the beginning of me starting to. To work towards that. And the good thing about working in fashion, that helped me pay. I paid off all of my student loans. I made sure I didn't have any debt before I left corporate America. So it's like I started positioning myself to make sure that I would be okay financially and then so I can really just focus on the creative side of the business, but still take that business that I've learned working in corporate America and apply that to my own business and kind of not have to take on every project just because I needed the money.

[Caroline Burke]

You know, when you were first starting out, what did that business look like? How did you set yourself up? How did you structure it?

[Alvin Wayne]

It has always been me from day one. And it was. It was a learning curve, I think with every inquiry, the whole process looked different. Like, I used to do a discovery call and then I would do the consultation, and then we do the design contract. Now I don't do a discovery call. It's like we do the consultation and I decide whether I want to work with you or not. I kind of cut a lot of things out.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Alvin Wayne]

Kind of get straight to the point. And I used to never discuss pricing up front. Like, if people emailed an inquiry, I would go through the discovery call, the consultation, then we would talk about pricing. Now, if you've seen an inquiry, hi, this is the prize for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, starting at xyz. And then if you can do it now, let's have a consultation. If not, thank you. But it's like, I've learned to get straight to the point and not waste time.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah. How long does it take to make that shift? Or when, you know, when.

[Alvin Wayne]

It took a while for me to find that voice. And I think it's. As I become busier with social media things, with projects that I'm working on, I've learned to get straight to the point. And it's like, either we're going to work together or we're not.

[Caroline Burke]

That is such a New York thing, isn't it?

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah, it's a New York thing. It's like, okay, this is what it is. Can you do it? If you can, great. If not, call me when you can.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Alvin Wayne]

You're in or you're out and still decide if it's a good fit.

[Caroline Burke]

I want to talk a little bit about getting rid of that discovery Call, because I think that's amazing. When did you decide I don't need to do this?

[Alvin Wayne]

I decided I need to drop the discovery call when the discovery calls started to turn into a consultation. Like I told people, like, hey, this is a 15 minute call just to see what you need and like if this will be a good fit. And then they were like, oh, well, I can show you pictures, I can do this. Do you want to do zoom? And I was like, I don't really need to do this discovery call if it's going to turn into this. And so I think that's when I cut it. And then the first email when they send the inquiry, it's like, you need to tell me what you're looking for. And then I'm going to respond and say, okay, great, I'd love to help you with this. The price for that starts at xyz. The consultation price is this, this, this, this, this. If it sounds great to you, we can set up a date to do the consultation. And I just get straight to the point because I feel like if we get to the consultation, I'm going to see everything I need to see within those 90 minutes that I'm with you.

[Caroline Burke]

Well, tell me about that consultation. So I heard you say you charge for it. That time is not free. No, there's still a chance after that consultation call. You know, you have a loose sense of scope of work, you've given the client a loose sense of how much it will cost them, but there's a chance that you will look at everything they bring and you'll say, I don't want to do this.

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah. So during the consultation it's like, I'm really trying to figure out how they live in this space, what they need and what they want. And you know, I'm loosely coming up with concepts and ideas and I'm giving them that feedback because I've also learned too, sometimes people only need a consultation. They just need you to come in and say, yeah, well this, this works. This looks amazing. You were thinking xyz, that sounds great. Maybe you should add in this. And that's all they need.

[Caroline Burke]

Wow, okay.

[Alvin Wayne]

You know, that's all they need. They just need your advice. And so then some people are like, oh, I love everything you said. Okay, can we, you know, move to the next step? Like, I want to see a full design plan. I want to see like what this could look like and, you know, how much I would need to spend for this. But if I don't think it's a Good fit. I'm still going to tell them, like, I gave you the consultation, like, my ideas and stuff, but at the moment, I'm not able to work with you. I never really turn people down like that. But if I know my schedule is like, overbooked or like, I'm still knee deep in projects that I'm trying to finish up, I'm also very transparent about that in that initial email. And if they want to do something, I say, we can schedule a consultation, but if you want to move forward with, you know, becoming an actual client of mine, we can do the consultation now. And then maybe three months or six months from now, we can work together. And sometimes a lot of people are like, I really want to work with you, but I need to get my budget to where it needs to be so we can execute all these ideas that we talked about. I'll call you back in three to six months. And that's okay too.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah. At what point on this journey is someone, you know, signing on, officially signing a contract?

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah. So basically when we, when we do the consultation and everything's great, I'm going to send you that initial design contract. Like, I'm not going to do a design plan before I get a retainer or you sign this contract. So you're going to sign a design contract and you're going to pay me my retainer. And then I ask for at least two weeks to come up with a design plan. And then after those two weeks, I present you the design plan. And then I say, based off the budget that you gave me, this design plan comes in at budget or blah, blah, blah, over budget. And then we, we go from there. And if they say, you know what, I love it, let's do it. Then we, you pay me my other money and then we order everything.

[Caroline Burke]

You make it sound so fast and easy. And I know that I tell my.

[Alvin Wayne]

Clients all the time, I'm like, this process goes fast. Like, I just recently I took on another project in Brooklyn. I did the consultation in April. And he was like, well, how long is this process going to take? I was like, it's not that long. You just need to make a decision. So after the consultation, he was like, great. I sent him the recap. He was like, let's move forward. Sent him the contract. He paid his money. I came back with a design plan. He loved it. And I was like, great, we can order everything today. Everything's in stock. We ordered everything. Most of his stuff is there already. His sofa comes next week and the media console Comes next week and then we're doing install and he'll be done.

[Caroline Burke]

How is that possible?

[Alvin Wayne]

I learned to pick things that are in stock.

[Caroline Burke]

That's a pandemic pivot, I would imagine.

[Alvin Wayne]

That's a pandemic pivot. And it's not a large project at all. It's like a one bedroom condo. It's not a large project. So fairly easy. But he needed everything. But I just made sure I got things that were in stock that, that we absolutely loved. It just so happened to work out.

[Caroline Burke]

Is that retail or with that project?

[Alvin Wayne]

I did retail. All retail. I did not do any custom. I didn't do any showrooms or anything. It was all retail.

[Caroline Burke]

I mean, that's pretty miraculous compared to. I feel like the timelines that most people tell me, they're kind of slogging through.

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah, I think I've learned with retail too. So it's. It was mostly Crate and Barrel, Robe concepts, West Elm, CB2. I've learned that when the newest items come out, they're pretty much in stock. So I made sure I was going for the newest stuff, but I made sure it worked with what we were doing. And so I think this one just happened to work out. But I also have another project in Hudson Yards. I did all retail too for that. And we started this project in January. Her furniture will not be delivered until August or September. So it's like, gosh, we could. And I actually told her, I was like, I feel like I want to cancel everything and just start over.

[Caroline Burke]

What? Because you would do it differently.

[Alvin Wayne]

I would change the design concept completely and try to find things that are actually in stock. The thing is, like, when you work with clients and you get to know them like you want their homes to be complete. You don't want their homes to be like in disarray and halfway finished. Like, you have this amazing wallpaper up, but you still have your old stuff because all the new stuff isn't coming yet. And so it looks crazy. I don't want my clients living in chaos. It feels incomplete. And I always like, you're waiting and you're waiting to finish stuff. I don't want them to feel like that. And also I want to move on from their projects too.

[Caroline Burke]

I hear that your firm has always been you. How have you tapped outside help to manage your workload?

[Alvin Wayne]

I've recently hired an assistant. I do have a design assistant that helps me with sourcing and like, you know, when I show up at clients homes, when we do install days or partial installs, like he's there to help me, but I really leaned into great outside help, like the wallpaper company that I use. Like, we have a great relationship. He's. He does everything, every project that I do. I have a great electrician. So I've just really leaned in on and built those connections and those relationships with people. So it's almost like when I call, they're like, sure thing. I'll be there. This is when I can be there. How can we make it work? Yeah, the things that they do, I can't do myself, nor do I want to do.

[Caroline Burke]

Do you have dreams of a bigger sprawling firm where you employ many people?

[Alvin Wayne]

I would want to bring on another assistant. I don't know if I want, like, a big sprawling team. I think because the way that I design in my thought process, it is purely in my head at this point. I don't know if I would be able to say, okay, here's the inquiry. This is your project.

[Caroline Burke]

Right.

[Alvin Wayne]

But my name is still attached to it. You know what I mean? I just don't have that much trust right now. But I feel like if I was to bring on another assistant, and then I could really train someone to really just be another version of myself, then I think over time, yes, because I know that I've trained this person and now this person can train the next person and so forth and so forth. But I think I like being in control, and I like the ideas being my ideas. Because I think when it comes to design, too many ideas can just cloud everything. Like, I like to cut all the noise and just be in my head and, like, produce, you know?

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

How do you do that?

[Caroline Burke]

How do you create the space to do that?

[Alvin Wayne]

Well, I work with music sometimes, but lately I just need it super quiet, and then I can really think. And honestly, my best ideas come to me, like, when I'm on a plane or I'm in an Uber or I'm somewhere where, like, I can't do anything. But the plane is, like, the best place because, you know, I'm not paying for the WI Fi, so I'm not on my phone. I'm just listening to music, and I'm, like, resting. And that's when all the ideas come to me. Or whether I'm just, like, at a state of rest. And I tell all, like, people are like, how do you do this stuff so fast? Like, I will be laying in my bed, and I will be doing a whole mood board on my phone in the bed. But I've learned that I have to be at Rest for me to create.

[Caroline Burke]

You can't, like, block off time on your calendar and be like, in this moment, I'm going to create a thing.

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah, it won't happen. I can't even block off moments to source for people if I wanted to. Like, it just has to naturally and organically. That's also why I asked for two weeks to come up with a design plan. Because I can't say, oh, I'm going to have this to you in three days, and I just don't feel it, or I don't see the vision, you know, even though I've seen the vision when I'm there. But when it comes to me actually sourcing the stuff, I'll always have the vision, but I won't always have the time to put it together until I'm at a place of rest.

[Caroline Burke]

Is the consultation for you also where you are discovering kind of the client's, you know, aesthetic inclinations? Or how are you, like, where is that happening? Where you kind of see not only this is what the space needs, but also this is what's right for them.

[Alvin Wayne]

So that normally happens on the consultation. So I'm very observant and I kind of. I let them lead the consultation. I say, okay, tell me what you need. How do you live in this space? What do you want? Like, tell me everything. Let's start at the front door and let's just go. And so I really listen to them and I take notes and I pay attention. I also do look at, you know, their wardrobe. I look at certain items in their homes, and I can tell the person that they are and the person that they aspire to be by listening to them and also watching them. And then I say, okay, well, give me. Who are, like, some of your. Your fashion references when it comes to fashion. Like, who do you follow on Instagram? Like, I. I try to tap into who they are. Like, what type of music do you listen to? What do you enjoy outside of the home? Do you like to entertain a lot? So all those questions help me figure out who they are and then what type of space they really need.

[Caroline Burke]

I would imagine, you know, people who are coming to you, they are following you on social media. There is also, I would imagine, absolutely a piece of them that wants very specifically what you do as that has sort of solidified. How does that impact sort of the interaction you have with clients around aesthetics?

[Alvin Wayne]

If they follow me on social media and they found me on social media, I think that is so important because they know what to expect. They know what they're getting. And they lead the conversation with, hey, you know how you have that neon sign in your entryway? I love that. Or you know how you put the two credenzas together? I love that wood. They reference things that I've done in my own space and then other projects that I've done. Then I'm like, okay, so I know what you like. And so that really helps me so I don't have to pull teeth and say, gosh, well, you're really traditional, and I don't design traditional. You know what I mean?

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Alvin Wayne]

Like, nobody's ever coming to me. And, like, I have a, you know, a Victorian era home. I need you to, like, restore it to this natural splendor. They're like, no, I live in a city. I live in a white box, and I want you to turn it into a home.

[Caroline Burke]

Has that been freeing for you creatively?

[Alvin Wayne]

Yes, it's been so freeing. And it's. It's still a challenge because I'm like, I've gotten somebody who says, oh, no, I want that sofa that you have in your house. I want the exact sofa. And I'm like, well, I try to give them versions. It was like, no, I want your sofa. So it's been challenging as well, but it's also been, like, a good challenge because it's like, all right, no problem. You want my sofa. But how is it gonna. It's gonna look completely different in your house. It will not look the same.

[Caroline Burke]

People want you to knock yourself off.

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah, funny. Yeah, give it to them. But it'll still become. It'll still feel completely different. Like, if you put the IM outside, it'll be completely different, but you'll be able to tell that I did it, but it will not be a carbon copy, and I'm just going to change mine anyway, so it's okay.

[Caroline Burke]

That's the part that's unspoken, I would imagine, with the client.

[Alvin Wayne]

But at that point, I'm like, hey, do you just want to buy my sofa?

[Caroline Burke]

What is something that has tested you.

[Alvin Wayne]

As a business owner, I think, earlier on, feeling like I was doing more work than I was being compensated for. I think now that is why I'm so upfront in that first email about this is my price, and you can pay it. Are you, you know, or you don't have to. It's okay. And, like, it's also taught me to get my systems in. In order. So it's like, you know, I'm going to send you a link for payment. You can Use any major credit card. You can use your checking account. You can use your debit card. Your debit card. Like, there's no excuses. You know what I mean? But it's also that financial part of it has also taught me to be really picky about who I work with. Like, in the beginning, if I feel like, you know, this person, I'm not really sure, and then I have to chase you for money, then it's like, okay, I should have trusted my gut from the beginning. So I think that was a pain point and a pivot point for me. And also the clientele that I'm working on and the level of projects that I'm working on now. So that has also changed. So I think it's. It's all encompassing. Like, I grew the projects, grew the caliber of people that I'm working with, that. That's changed. So I think it's all different, and I think it's. Now everybody understands, like, what's going on, so we don't have to say, like, hey, you owe me money, or, gosh, I gotta wait until you make the money to pay me.

[Caroline Burke]

Like, no, get yourself together first. And then.

[Alvin Wayne]

And I think it helped me. Like, I'm having that conversation about money right from the beginning. Like, this is the cost. You know, whether you can do it or not. And if you can't, it's okay. Like, I've had clients say, you know what? I really want to work with you. I'm going to up my budget. I'm just going to need a couple, you know, a couple of months to, like, save up or do what I need to do. And that is totally fine, because we are. We're being transparent about it. And it's like, if you come to me and I want to give you the best design possible, and it costs this amount of money, and you don't have that amount of money, then you need to go make it. And I'm okay with waiting.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

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[Caroline Burke]

What, to you is the secret to leveling up?

[Alvin Wayne]

I think the secret to leveling up is just the growth from within. I don't really think there is a secret. I think you kind of have to go through those bad apples to get to where you're at a point where it's like, okay, this is what it is. I've done my due diligence. I've done the dirty work. And you kind of got to be burnt a little in order for you.

[Caroline Burke]

To singed around the edges.

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah. In order for you to just be, like, really upfront and say, listen, this is what it is. It's almost like you got to get the business out the way first, and then you can be creative. And I like to explain it to my clients like that first, like, hey, you're paying me. So we got the business out the way, and the rest is all towards your project. And then we can be creative. We can go do everything. And I don't have to. You don't have to worry about money, and I don't have to worry about money. We just need to worry about the finishes that we choose.

[Caroline Burke]

What was your journey to getting there?

[Alvin Wayne]

My journey to getting there was it started with feeling like I wasn't being paid enough. Like, I was doing more work than I was getting paid for. Like, things would go on for, you know, a couple of months. And it's like, but I only got X amount of dollars. But we keep adding stuff to it, and your place is amazing. But I have nothing really to show for it. Yeah, it started with that, and then it started with, you know, as a project, budgets got larger. I realized, like, I need to make more money. I can't. I can't do all of this for pennies. So. And that's when I came up with, like, what I felt comfortable charging per project or per, you know, whatever it is, room, scope of work or whatnot.

[Caroline Burke]

Your fee is a percentage of the client's budget. Correct.

[Alvin Wayne]

And then with that being said, there is a certain number that if you say my budget is xyz, we cannot work together. Together, because I feel like I'm not being compensated enough. So that. That goes back in that initial email and at the consultation, like your budget needs to be starting at. Then we can work together. So I feel like I'm being compensated enough. And so you can have a design that works, you know, because if somebody says, oh, I want to do my whole house for $10,000 a, I'm not going to get any money. 2. What kind of design are you going to get?

[Caroline Burke]

Right. Right. When did you first start looking at social media as a revenue opportunity or as a promotional opportunity? You know, how did you. When did you first start saying, you know, there's something here?

[Alvin Wayne]

You know, my social media used to be just, like, projects that I did or just interior design stuff. But I realized when I started showing more of who I was and my personality, that is when the followers came along.

[Caroline Burke]

Okay.

[Alvin Wayne]

And that's when brands started to take notice. And my first brand partnership started with me. It was with CB2. And it started because, like, you know, I would go in the store, I would tag them, I would take my followers along with me and be like, hey, well, this is what they have. And, you know, I would do that with a lot of stores. Just, you know, as I'm sourcing, just show it. So I think the brand started to notice. And then with CB2, there was a bed that I wanted, and I had sent them a message, and I was like, hey, I'm about to purchase this bed, but before I do, do you guys want a partner? And they were like, sure. And that partnership turned into, like, an even bigger deal. Like, it went from August, and then I did, like, a holiday campaign with them. Like, it turned into a whole situation. And then I was like, oh, this is something.

[Caroline Burke]

When was that?

[Alvin Wayne]

It wasn't during the pandemic.

[Caroline Burke]

Okay.

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah, it was like, 2020.

[Caroline Burke]

Is that when you also started kind of putting yourself into your social media?

[Alvin Wayne]

Yes, that is when I started putting myself into my social media. So I kind of leaned on when I used to watch Top Model and how Tyra Banks used to talk about branding yourself.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Alvin Wayne]

And then she did an interview on the Wall Street Journal that I watched, and she said, a lot of people want to be better than everybody else. You want to be better, and you want to do this. But she said, different is better than better. So in order to. You need to be different. And I thought to myself, how can I personally be different? And how can I be different from every other interior designer that's just showing their work?

[Caroline Burke]

Yes.

[Alvin Wayne]

Like, people need to get to know me. A. Because if they know me, they feel more comfortable with me coming into their spaces, telling them what they should and shouldn't do. They also get to watch me for a while and see my thought process and see how I design and why I do what I do. And so I needed to just put myself out there. So I had to let go of all those things about, oh, you sound too this, you sound too that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I had to literally let it go and just start being myself and showing the world that. And now when I show up in clients house, they're like, yep, you're the same album from Instagram. And I love it.

[Caroline Burke]

Oh my God. I tried talking to the camera once on Instagram and it was like, I mean like, people were like, oh my gosh, this was so fun. And I was like, what you didn't see was that I talked to myself for two hours and systematically deleted it. Yeah, that's why it's horrifying at the.

[Alvin Wayne]

Beginning and in the beginning is horrifying. But now it's gotten to the point like just me doing that, that has helped me. Like when it comes to a camera crew is in front of me or even a camera for like photography, I instantly turn it on and I can pick up this phone and do an insta and like record post. Don't even think about it. I don't have to re record it, I don't have to edit because in my mind I'm talking to friends and I'm just letting them in on what's going on.

[Caroline Burke]

Was it just about kind of suffering through the gut wrenching part where it wasn't quite so comfortable and instantaneous?

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah. I even started a YouTube too. I started a YouTube during that time and I was like, if I ever want to be on TV or if I ever want a TV show, I have to get comfortable speaking on camera. And I set up the camera and I just talked and I did it. And you can see the growth and the evolution. If you look at the very first YouTube video to now it's a completely different person. Yeah, I realized like, I do have a true talent and that's the ability to be an interior designer and to think creatively and see things and, you know, put things together and make it, make it beautiful. And I think when all that happened and I let go, the brands really started to notice. And that's when I got tapped on the shoulder from multiple brands to like, hey, do you want to do a partnership? Let's do this. And then the money that's in brand partnership, a lot of people don't know, but it is a lot of money.

[Caroline Burke]

We talked a couple weeks ago about the fact that, you know, the money is really good in brand partnerships and you are looking to pivot some of your business away from design clients and towards these partnerships online. What does that look like for you? Or what do you want that to look like in the next year or two ahead?

[Alvin Wayne]

I want to pivot away from doing so many design projects. I'm already selective, but I want to be more selective about taking on projects. Because now sometimes I'm like, oh, this is easy. Like, let's do this. But now I want to be very selective of like, hey, I'm only doing two major projects a year, and the rest is all brand partnership. And then also leverage those brand partnerships to coincide with those projects that I have going on. So let's say if I'm doing a renovation and Kohler wants to partner, hey, Kohler, I know you want to do a partnership with me. I live in a rental. I don't need any sinks or toilets or mirrors. But guess what? I'm working on this rental, and I'm going to need all these things. So it's sort of like a win, win situation for the client, myself, and for the brand, because I'm creating content centered around that project anyway. Because I'm showing the world, hey, this is what I'm working on currently. But guess what? I also have a brand partnership with Kohler. So on my end, I'm getting paid for my client and from Kohler. But to my client, they're like, I'm getting free stuff.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Alvin Wayne]

And Kohler's like, I'm getting my content. So it's really a win win situation for everyone. And I really realized that actually last week I was working at my Harlem project and I actually showed it, and it has an outdoor terrace. I have a partnership with a plant company, and they were like, we'll send the plants for your client for the hit for his outside terrace. I didn't ask. They just saw it and my client and I was like, wow, this is insane. And I was like, yeah, because I'm going to show it anyway. I'm going to create the content. So why wouldn't they want their product to be tagged in it? Because the world is going to see it.

[Caroline Burke]

God, the client has to be so bowled over by that by getting the free stuff because they're working with you.

[Alvin Wayne]

I've even had a mistake. Why? The wallpaper installer basically ruined $700 wallpaper. And I was like, I'm going to have to eat the cost of this. But I called a brand that I was working with, and I was like, hey, this is what's happening. Can I get this wallpaper? They were like, sure thing. Just tag it.

[Caroline Burke]

That's amazing.

[Alvin Wayne]

So, like, it saved my project, and my client was happy because nobody really had to eat the cost of that. And then on top of that, I was like, well, can I get a mirror? Can I get a lamp? Can I get a. They're like, sure thing. Just tag us.

[Caroline Burke]

How do you map out what you're posting or what is. Do you have kind of a strategy that's guiding your posting schedule?

[Alvin Wayne]

My strategy is my gut. It depends on how I feel that morning. If I wake up and say, oh, I want to talk about this, or I'm going to post this, then I do it. If I wake up and say, I don't feel like it, I don't do it. I'm in stories almost every day because I feel like that's where people get to know you. Really? Yeah. They say, like, your. Your Instagram feed is your billboard, but the stories is where they get to know you and know your personality. And then you also show a little of that on your feed, but it's in the stories where you really connect with people. So I tend to always show up in stores and say, this is what's going on, blah, blah, blah, blah. And on the feed is like, the more polished and, like, the glitzy and the glam, you know.

[Caroline Burke]

How often are you posting on your feed?

[Alvin Wayne]

Honestly, it's when I used to try to say, I'm gonna post at least three times a week. Now it's probably like once a week. Like, if I don't feel like posting, I'm not gonna post. There's even been brand stuff that the brands say, oh, it needs to be up by this day at this time. And I have not done it because I didn't feel like it. And I let them know, I'm not gonna post that today, I'm gonna post it tomorrow. And they're like, okay, is there a.

[Caroline Burke]

Pressure to the social media side, do you feel a pressure to create certain kinds of content, to adapt to the algorithm, to change the way you work?

[Alvin Wayne]

At one point, I felt the pressure, but I think now this is the part of me that doesn't care. I go back to that part and I'm like, I don't care. Because I feel like if people, if they genuinely enjoy me and the content that I put out, they'll stick around regardless of the algorithm. And I think sometimes when you just constantly put stuff out, because I. I look at Instagram every day, so there are some people, I can tell that they're just putting stuff out, just to put it out. And I don't want to be that person. And if I sell it, I'm sure everybody else can. So I've gotten to the point now where it's like, if you want to be here, you'll be here. And with the brands, too. Like, I'm not going to just keep putting stuff out because brands are watching. I'm going to put it out when I feel like putting it out, and it's real and it's authentic, and I think the brands take notice of that, and they're still, you know, they want to work with me.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah. I've been in the back of my mind thinking about, you know, we were talking about shopping at retail, and I think sometimes there can be such a stigma about that in the industry.

[Alvin Wayne]

Cringe when they hear the right, how.

[Caroline Burke]

Have you broken out of that?

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Or how do you think about that?

[Alvin Wayne]

This pandemic has also taught me that everything does not have to be custom. Everything doesn't have to be vintage. Everything does not have to have a hefty price tag on it. These retailers, they do make quality pieces. And I think as an interior designer and a creative in general, it's all about how you put things together. And I'm a real person, and I live within a real budget, and I have clients that have real budgets. Even if it's like $100,000 or more, it's still a budget. And I'm a firm believer in, like, sometimes you just don't need to spend that much money on things. And so I think that's where it comes to when it's like shopping with retail. And then, let's be honest, all of my brand partnerships are retail. It's not. Is not showrooms. Like, oh, come, come, you know, I'm gonna pay you $50,000. No retail has the money. So if I'm going to say, I, I'm gonna push this item from Crate and Barrel because they paid me to do it, then you never see me use Crate and Barrel in any of my projects. How is that being authentic? And for me, as a designer, I want to show people you can mix retail and you can mix customers. My whole bedroom is all CB2, but you wouldn't know it unless I tell you. It's all about how you mix things together, and it's about mixing high and low. With one of my projects, some stuff came from retail, and then I custom designed some stuff that's being made, like, in a workroom. Yeah. So it's all about how you put stuff together. Like, I needed nightstands, and I was like, you know what? I'm going to make them. I drew a design, sent it to my furniture maker, show my client. They were like, yes, I love it. So the nightstands are actually going to be. Two nightstands are going to cost more than the bed, because the bed came from retail. But it's also something that nobody else is going to have. But when you see it all together, you're not going to think, oh, that bed is from CB2. You're going to think, this is a beautiful room, and it looks expensive and luxe. So I think that is the difference. And even with the Brooklyn project, everything is retail.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Alvin Wayne]

When you see it, you won't think so, because it's all about how you put things together. And I think that has to be the point of difference with interior design and interior designers in general, because any normal person can shop retail.

[Caroline Burke]

Right.

[Alvin Wayne]

But any normal person can't put things together the way that we can put them together. And I challenge any interior designer who thinks that everything has to be customer. Everything has to come from the showroom, or everything has to be over the top or bespoked or anything. If you tell them, go in Crate and barrel, go in CB2, go in pottery Barn and do a whole house, but it can't look like it, will they be able to do it? That should be a show, actually.

[Caroline Burke]

This should be a show, but it's.

[Alvin Wayne]

All about how you put things together. And I think that is what my clients enjoy about me. And I think that's honestly what keeps me grounded and real and not keep, you know, not head so high in the sky like, oh, if you don't buy this, $30,000 crystal chandelier is not going to work. Guess what? I shop at Etsy. Etsy has amazing light fixtures. I have custom rugs from Morocco from Etsy, and they were 900 bucks. You just got to know how to shop.

[Caroline Burke]

Yeah.

[Alvin Wayne]

Even my large project, we're. We're getting rugs from retail, and I'm combining three rugs to make one big one and just cutting it. So it's all about how you think, to me, that that is what I find enjoyable about this. It's like, hey, I love this rug. Yeah, it's from CB2. But guess what? We can get three 9 by 12s. We can put them together, and then we can recut it. And now It's a custom rug versus the sixty thousand dollar rug that we were going to get that your kids are going to spill juice all over. So you feel comfortable spending $3,600 for versus 60,000 and you've structured your fee.

[Caroline Burke]

So that you don't feel shortchanged by that.

[Alvin Wayne]

Yeah, not at all. This is the same house that a $40,000 custom Roach Bau sofa is going to go in on top of a $3,600 rug that I love that I put together. It's all about high, low and I think and I always go back to this is how we dress. You can get a whole outfit from Zara, but you're going to pair it back to your Prada shoes and your Hermes bag. That's how we dress. Why can't our home look like that? It's about how you put it together.

[Caroline Burke]

Totally. What is the one thing you wish you knew from the get go when you started your firm that you know now?

[Alvin Wayne]

I wish I had more confidence in myself to be able to really lean into that I don't care side of me because I think that I don't care side of me enables me to have difficult conversations right off the that. It enables me to be 100% sure about the decisions that I make and not second guess myself. Yeah. So I think I wish I knew that. But I also know that came with time and growing as an individual and just learning as I as I go, you know.

[Caroline Burke]

Totally. What does success look like for you?

[Alvin Wayne]

Success for me looks like being able to do what I want to do when I want to do it. Success is freedom. It is financial freedom. It is freedom to travel. It is freedom to say, yeah, I'll work with you or no, I won't work with you. It's the freedom to just live life and be unapologetically myself. That is definitely success for me.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, check out new products or browse job openings, head on over to businessofhome.com and if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. If you have a note for the show or a story of your own to share, I'd love to hear from you and you can email [e-mail] Trade Tales is produced by me, Katelyn Peterson Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you back here next week.