Ask Us Anything: Anissa Zajac on getting out-of-state jobs right

Summary

Trade Tales: Ask Us Anything - Anissa Zajac on Getting Out-of-State Jobs Right (October 29, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode of Trade Tales (hosted by Kaitlin Petersen, Editor in Chief of Business of Home), celebrated designer Anissa Zajac returns to share her hard-earned wisdom on managing out-of-state interior design projects. Responding to a listener's question, the discussion zeroes in on the challenges, logistics, and strategies needed to succeed when expanding design services beyond local markets. Anissa offers a candid look at pricing, relationship-building, communication, and maintaining both creativity and professionalism while remote.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Listener’s Challenge: Expanding to New Markets

• Context: A designer seeks advice on managing jobs in multiple states, referencing moves between Arizona, California, with new project leads in Florida and New York. She worries about maintaining standards, coordinating installs, and bridging gaps with unfamiliar vendors.

  • Key Quote: “I’m just looking for the best way to transition smoothly, either managing projects remotely or being able to coordinate with other local vendors, handling installations and just making sure my vision really comes to life in another city successfully.” (B, 01:29)

• Travel Preferences: The designer values in-person interactions and structures fees to accommodate travel.

  • “It looks like me traveling to them initially for the consultation, a couple times throughout the project, and for the final walkthrough and photography.” (B, 02:10)

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2. Anissa Zajac: Journey & Philosophy

• Anissa’s Background: Known for her out-of-state clientele, Anissa’s business developed organically—opportunities came via social media, rather than strategic planning.

  • Notable Quote: “I never really have a plan in place. I just kind of let things happen, and then I’m like, all right, we’ll figure it out.” (C, 12:44)

• Business Evolution: Reflects on her own journey, including frequent personal moves and renovations.

  • “I’ve said this so many times. I’m never looking for the next project when I’m in the midst of a project, but somehow I keep finding myself finishing a home... and then, I don’t know, I need to stay off realty websites.” (C, 05:55)

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3. Key Strategies for Managing Remote Projects

A. Setting Expectations and Building Trust (14:44–17:48)

• Thorough, early communication with both clients and local team members is non-negotiable.

  • “It always starts with the client, and then meeting the team... setting those clear expectations from the get-go is really what’s, I think, saved us.” (C, 13:43)

• Upfront Pricing: Transparent discussions about design fees and travel costs.

  • “We have a minimum of hours to start with us… This is just for us to do the design.” (C, 17:58)
  • “We charge a day rate for travel. So if we’re going out of state, we charge a day rate. And that includes our travel costs, food costs, hotel stay—whatever it is, it’s all included in that day rate.” (C, 17:58)

B. When and Why to Be Onsite (23:04–25:45)

• Essential Touchpoints:

  • Initial walkthrough and meeting local team.
  • Key construction milestones (e.g. electrical walkthroughs, tile layout, trim details).
  • Final installations and photography.

• “Our ideas are just ideas until those people build them or make them… if you can build a good friendship [with trades], they’re so much more willing to let you know if something comes up or be there for you and advocate for each other.” (C, 23:13)

• In-person advantage: Some details simply can’t be managed by video call.

  • “There’s things that you just can’t see via FaceTime.” (C, 25:48)

C. Practical Logistics, Vendor Management, and Teamwork (33:18–37:38)

• Local Partners: Cultivate goodwill with small gestures (e.g., lunches, thank-you gifts).
  • “Small tokens of kindness go a long way... I think it means a lot to people, especially in this industry, when somebody of a different trade thanks them for their part in the project.” (C, 33:47)
• Communication: Assign team members as dedicated points of contact for each project.
• Storage & Deliveries: Collaborate with local white-glove services for safe, timely deliveries.
  • “We usually have a storage facility we work with... a white glove delivery service that can store all of the products that are being sent.” (C, 37:10)

D. When Teams Don’t Mesh

• Recognize when on-site presence is needed due to local team difficulties—and be transparent with the client about what that means for project costs.
  • “When that happens, it requires us to be there more… We then have to turn to the client and ask the client to mediate the issue for us.” (C, 37:44)

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4. Scoping, Vetting, and Billing for Out-of-State Work

• Scoping: Adjust approach depending on the project’s size and client involvement.

  • “If it were a really large project...I would never take it on unless the client was comfortable with paying those remote rates… because it just wouldn’t be able to be done properly.” (C, 42:59)

• Vetting Clients: Look for “fit” and red flags; be upfront about the need for strong relationships.

  • “You’ve got to interview your clients the same way they’re interviewing you from the beginning... If it’s not wonderful at the beginning, then you really have to ask yourself, do you want to see this all the way through to the end?” (C, 31:03)
  • “You have to like me as much as you like my design... We’re going to be married for at least the next two years.” (C, 31:45)

• Documentation and Sign-off: Require documentation and meetings to ensure clients truly understand contracts, fees, and project requirements.

  • “It’s really important to meet with the client—even if it’s via Zoom—where they have a copy of your welcome packet, or your contract…” (C, 39:16)

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5. Memorable Quotes

• Anissa on Project Responsibility:
  • “You can inhibit yourself by getting caught up in the weight of all of it, and it can hold you back where you kind of have to hold on to that belief at the very beginning of, you know what? I’m just going to do it. I’m going to go for it, and I’m going to figure it out.” (C, 47:00)
• Advice from Anissa’s Mentor:
  • “You have to invest in your business because you are investing in yourself and you cannot think about, can I afford this? Can I not afford this? Just do what feels right and you will make it work.” (C, 45:57)
• Summing Up Client Care:
  • “Run a project the way you would want someone to run your own project.” (C, 26:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:29 — Listener question: Navigating work in multiple states, core challenges.
• 05:39–10:15 — Anissa’s personal and business journey, building her design firm.
• 12:44–17:48 — How she began out-of-state projects; setting clear expectations, structuring pricing.
• 23:13–25:45 — Essential onsite touchpoints; relationship-building with local trades.
• 28:27–30:52 — Real-world examples: Frequency & duration of site visits for Florida and Chicago projects.
• 31:03–33:18 — Vetting and meshing with clients for long projects.
• 33:47–37:38 — Developing strong rapport with new local vendors and teamwork essentials.
• 39:16–42:47 — Documentation, logistics, and upfront, ongoing conversations about budget and responsibilities.
• 45:57–48:57 — Best business advice Anissa has ever received.

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Takeaways for Designers Considering Out-of-State Projects

• Prepare Thoroughly: Set expectations in writing, clarify all fees, and document processes.
• Prioritize Communication: Be transparent, communicate often, and adapt to client and team needs.
• Vet Everyone: Assess clients and local partners for fit and reliability from the outset.
• Flex Pricing: There’s no one-size-fits-all fee structure; tailor costs based on project scope and location logistics.
• Maintain Professionalism & Kindness: Build trust through small gestures and respectful collaboration.
• Don’t Fear the Leap: Sometimes, success comes from moving forward with confidence and trusting yourself to sort out challenges along the way.

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This episode offers a candid, practical, and encouraging exploration of what it truly takes to design from afar—packed with advice both philosophical and actionable for interior designers looking to elevate their business beyond borders.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything where we're tapping your favorite Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. Some weeks we'll be workshopping a crisis. In others, we'll take a step back to talk about the big picture, things like embracing change, hiring, or how to level up. No question is out of bounds. No question is too long, large or too small. And we're keeping it confidential so that this is always a safe space to air your frustrations and share your fears. This week we're hearing from a designer who's looking to expand her services to new markets.

[B]

I'm sort of in the place where I'm trying to scale my business from one location to the other, and I'm finding that being able to smoothly transition from one city to another has been challenging.

[A]

After moving to a new city, our Question Asker is starting to juggle work in both locations with some projects near her old office and others near her new one. At the same time, she's also beginning to get leads across the country, and that sounds great in theory, but she wants to make sure that expansion won't compromise her ability to deliver great work.

[B]

Where I call home has changed. So technically my business is in Arizona. That's where it started, and in California, although I've been getting requests for Florida and New York. And so I'm just looking for the best way to transition smoothly, either managing projects remotely or being able to coordinate with other local vendors, handling installations and just making sure my vision really comes to life in another city successfully.

[A]

As you imagine what this looks like for your firm? Like do you want to be on a plane all the time to be on the ground in these locations, or are you really looking to do the work sort of to remove?

[B]

I would love to travel to the client.

[A]

Are the clients open to that, who are reaching out?

[B]

The clients are open to that and it's a fee structure I put in place initially in our contract, but I think it looks like me traveling to them initially for the consultation a couple times throughout the project and for the final walkthrough in photography.

[A]

What have the pain points been so far on projects that you've been executing at a distance, trying to locate local.

[B]

Vendors and finding trustworthy people to work with and being able to rely on somebody from afar without having that relationship, like an in person relationship that you build over years and just really getting the grasp of design from two locations or three or four.

[A]

What kind of answers would be like the best case solution for you, just.

[B]

Deeper insights on the world of design outside of your local city. And I live in a pretty big city. I I have the resources here, I think just inquiring with a seasoned designer and really trying to figure out how they did it and what made them successful in their business to be able to say yes, I can take on a project from 2,000 miles away and feel confident that my client is going to have the best case scenario.

[A]

This is a designer who knows that prioritizing the client's experience is the ultimate secret to success, and she's looking for guidance so that she can get it right from the start. As we ended our call, I knew just who to connect with. Someone who had developed a framework for out of state projects that involves building on a foundation of trust with clients and local trade partners alike. All that and more in just a moment. Our question this week is a great example of how running a design firm will test you often in the corners of your business that have very little to do with the actual design work. But here's some good news. With Forehand, you can rest assured that you're working with partners who understand that you need a level of service that will stand up to the challenges of daily life in a design firm. Whether you're building a mood board, placing orders, or tracking your shipment, fourhands has developed tools to ease the administrative lift of pulling a project across the finish line, on time and on budget. Fourhands offers a dedicated support team for every part of your shopping journey, from style recommendations to order assistance. And when hiccups do arise, they'll work with you to make things right for your clients. There's plenty to worry about, but your relationship with your vendors doesn't have to be one of them. I don't think there's anything better than knowing that your partners are in your corner. And that's a guarantee when you're working with forehands. Explore the benefits of shopping with Forehands for your next [e-mail] Tradetales today I'm joined by Anissa Zajak as a guest on Trade Tales. Last year, she shared how she's built a business where her biggest clients are out of state. I thought you'd be the perfect person to answer today's question. Thank you so much for joining me today. TradeTales listeners heard from you back in early 2024. How are you doing?

[C]

I'm excellent. Thank you so much for asking.

[A]

Absolutely. When we talked, you were in the process of building out a new team. You had a fresh approach to hiring, and you were in the middle of a home renovation a year and a half later. What is that looking like?

[C]

Well, that home renovation was completed, and then I moved immediately to another home. Like, I've said this so many times. I'm never looking for the next project when I'm in the midst of a project, but somehow I keep finding myself finishing a home that I intend to live in for a period of time. And then, I don't know, I need to stay off realty websites and, you know, seeing homes. And I actually was looking at a realty website just randomly one day when I needed, like, a brain break in the middle of doing design and then stumbled on this house that had been on the market for almost a year. And I feel like the last. I don't feel like I know the last three homes that I've purchased were homes that had been sitting on the market for quite some time. And this one just fit for me. So I went and saw it and then fell in love with it, and, I don't know, a few months later, closed on it and sold my other house. And now I'm in a new renovation project.

[A]

You named your business, I think, after sort of this series of homes you'd renovated and sold. What house number is this now?

[C]

This is 11.

[A]

What was it about this listing that called your name?

[C]

So the last house was more of a little cottage in a. In the village. It was something that had been sitting on the market. And I'll be honest, I was going through a life transition. I was moving out of my large home. I needed a home for me and my girls. This one's been sitting on the market. Like, I'll get a good price for it. It's got character. I can make it better. So I moved into that one, and I loved it. And I was kind of like, my I'm going to do whatever I want house. I'm not even going to think about it. I'm just going to make it like, you know, we called it the girls clubhouse because it was just me and my daughters living there.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think it was a project for me that really let me be creative because I just didn't think about the next owner or if people were going to like what I did. I just did it because I wanted to do it. And I will say, like, the response was fantastic for it, but this was the thing. It was not quite big enough for what I wanted out of a home. It fit us perfectly. For the two years that we were there. But then one of the things I really started missing were our big family dinners and having everybody over for the holidays. And I actually still crammed everybody in there, but I really wanted just more space. And then I saw this one come up, and there was a lot of character. And the family that had lived there, that him and his wife moved in and then had their family there. So, I mean, this house had so much history for their family, and I could tell that they were really emotionally attached to it. And, you know, I just. I understood it, and I think that we hit it off. And before he left, he gave me a hug and said, I don't think I could have sold the house to a nicer person. So, you know, that made me feel really good. And I've always been hesitant about remodeling homes that I've purchased from other families that I knew, you know, had an attachment to the house. So I was a little hesitant to put things on social with this house, but I did it anyway. And they like his daughters, and I've talked to him, and they've texted me and just said, like, oh, my gosh, we're so excited to see everything you're doing. That house needed that. And, you know, my mom. Yeah, my mom was really into decorating, and she always, like, our house was always the house that had people in it, and, you know, it just. I feel like they're happy, and I feel like their mom would be happy to see what. What's happening. So it's funny, I. They tore out the kitchen this week, and the youngest daughter messaged me and just said, my mom hated that kitchen so much. Like, I said, well, I hope this. I hope your mom's watching this from heaven. And she's just really excited to see what's happening because this one's for her, so.

[A]

Oh, that's so beautiful.

[C]

Yeah, it feels really good. I mean, I do feel, you know, it's not just for me and my family, but I also feel like I'm honoring, you know, their family also. I'm trying to be very cognizant of the choices that we make. And I told them, you know, I'm not going to tear down walls. I'm not going to completely take away all the character of this home so that you don't even recognize the home anymore. Like, I will honor the home, and I just want to update it and make it feel more like my home.

[A]

How are things on the work front?

[C]

Good. Really good. We finished a lot of really large projects this year, a few of them actually out of town projects. So we're in kind of a transition period. We have new projects starting. And so as anybody in the design world knows, it's like, okay, you're really, really busy, and then it starts to slow down. And then as you're starting your new projects, you know, it's. There's a little bit of a lull sometimes and then it starts to pick up again. So I feel like I don't want to say we're in a lull because we're. We're still busy, you know, every day. And I actually still feel like the days are too short and I'm not getting everything done. But I also think there's the sense of owning your own business and being in a constant state of fear that you're not going to have enough business, you know, going forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think that is what kind of makes an entrepreneur like you're, you're like happily scared all the time.

[A]

Do you feel happily scared right now?

[C]

Oh, I felt happily scared for the last, you know, six years. I think once I realized that, once I got over the fact that this was actually going to be a real business, because I also didn't really believe that for a long time. I mean, there was. The imposter syndrome was real. So I think once I got past that, then I just went into a constant state of when are we going to get another job? But there's always jobs. We're always doing jobs. It's a positive fearfulness, if that makes any sense, because I'm just constantly thinking about my business and how to be better and how to be more successful. But it's been good. I'm also writing a book, so that's been really time consuming. It's nothing like trying to run a business and be a mom of four daughters and then on top of it, try to write a book at the same time. But it's all great. If I didn't have a laundry list of things running through my head in the middle, then I'd probably start questioning what I was actually doing.

[A]

Well, I have a question for you. Are you ready to give some advice?

[C]

I absolutely am.

[A]

Amazing. So this week we are fielding a question from a designer who is looking for best practices to help her navigate long distance projects. I really appreciate that she called in kind of before. She's in the thick of it, wanting to know how to lay the groundwork to do this well, and I thought maybe to get us started, could you take a look back and tell me a little bit about what prompted you to start taking on jobs that weren't in your backyard.

[C]

Well, I feel like I never really have a plan in place. I just kind of let things happen and then I'm like, all right, we'll figure it out. And you know, that just means that you make mistakes along the way, but then you hopefully get better as you have more experience doing it. I think for my out of state projects, I didn't intentionally go looking for out of state projects. They came to me via Instagram mainly and I wanted to be able to expand my brand and expand to other states and work on projects that maybe I wouldn't have had the opportunity to work on. Clearly, you know, I'm in the Midwest so I wouldn't be working on any oceanfront projects or anything like that of state. So I think we've been very successful in managing our out of state projects because we've had quite a few. We just finished up a large one in Anna Maria island in Florida and then another in Chicago.

[A]

What is immediately different about those jobs compared to doing work that is local?

[C]

Obviously there's the challenge of being away from geographically challenged. You know, you're not right there, you can't get a phone call, hey, you know, something's not working correctly. We need you, you know, on the spot. Thankfully we have technology these days, so there's a lot of facetiming and things like that that happen and you know, texting back and forth and pictures being sent. I feel very much like our out of state projects are almost the same as our in state projects. And I think it's because the way we, we manage those projects and the communication that we start from the very beginning, I mean it always starts with the client and then meeting the team that has been assembled to work on that project out of state. And I think setting those clear expectations from the get go is really what's, I think saved us and helped us create beautiful and very detailed large projects like out of, you know, out of state. Because we've done that from the very beginning.

[A]

What is that expectation setting process in the beginning? What do you sort of have to come to those early meetings with or how are you forging connections with the other partners on the job?

[C]

I think the meeting with the client first and foremost and I think one of the, the main things and something I think we struggled with at the beginning of our out of state projects and how do you price things like what is fair to the client? But are you, you know, considering how much work you're going to be doing and how time consuming it is. Because as a mom and other people on my team that had children at the time to go out of state to see a project, you don't get to go home at the end of the day like you would project you. You're gone. And so making that time really worth your while instead of just taking projects that are locally. So I think creating a price structure from the very beginning and then discussing that with the client is really important. I think it's also important to know what kind of client you have. We've had some who were super involved. Communication was great. They would respond to our emails literally within minutes of us sending them. And, you know, that was great. And then we had other clients that literally didn't, they didn't want really any communication. They, they put all of their trust in us from the very beginning and said, you know, we trust you to do this. We don't really want to be involved. We've got other things going on in our lives. We've got children to, you know, manage and houses, other places to manage, and this isn't really what we want to do. So we trust you to take control of it. And that's great too, because then you're not trying to get approval for things like they've entrusted you to make those choices for them. So I think probably the biggest or the three things that I can think of from the very beginning is the clear expectations upfront, you know, what it's going to cost, what the communication is going to be, what the travel is going to consist of. And that's not only with the client, but then also from the other teams meeting with your, you know, your builders, your trades people, architects, landscapers, whatever it might be, and creating a schedule with them on when you're going to communicate and what you're going to communicate about and what things you're going to discuss with the client and what things you're going to just discuss between you and the trades. I think that's really important. And then once all of that's been figured out, then you start the process. And based on how people keep up their end, that's where the trust works. You know, it's like, hey, you know, we decided we were going to meet bi weekly and we were going to. Well, if someone's not shown up to the, the meetings, well, you know, then you lose your trust in them. I will say we really were fortunate. Everybody, you know, that was never an issue for us, but I Think as you start to go down the path of creating their dream home or whatever, you know, whatever it is that you're working on, as they see things happening and it's all being done well, then they start to trust you more and more. And then a lot of times the clients are happy to kind of take a backseat to the process.

[A]

Can you talk about how you have structured the pricing on a job that requires travel to feel fair to the client and to feel fair to you and your team?

[C]

So we have a. We, we work on an hourly basis and then we charge an hourly rate. We have a minimum of hours to start with us. And then that is usually for more small scale projects, large scale projects. Once we are of an understanding of what the scale of the project is, then we can give them an estimate. And it's 100% based on design hours only. And we're very clear. These are just for your design hours. This is not product. This is not, you know, any of your. Anything retail or any, anything else. This is just for us to do the design. So we'll give them that estimate and then we will require 50% down up front of that estimate. And we are very clear that if the scope of the work changes, then the scope of work changes, and then the estimate has to change too. And I think if you do that right away and you're very, very prompt with that, it saves you a lot of heartache later. I mean, everybody knows we're probably guilty of it ourselves. If we've done renovations and everybody has clients that as you get into the project, they'll say, hey, well, could you add a light here? You know what I was thinking? I want to add this over there. And a lot of times on projects you just, they'll, you know, whoever they might be requesting that from says, yeah, sure, we can do that. And then you have to sell them a bill months later, and then they're like, well, wait a second, I thought it was included. Well, it's because when the client asked for that, you didn't. You weren't very clear about. Okay, well, that's great. We're absolutely going to do that. But now the cost has changed. So I think that that's something that we're, we're very cognizant of in our business and making sure that we're clear about that. The other thing is we charge a day rate for travel. So if we're going out of state, we charge a day rate. And that includes our, you know, our travel costs, our food costs, our Hotel, stay, whatever it is, it's all included in that day rate. So we might be there, you know, we might be on site from 8 to 8pm or we might be on site from 8 to 12. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like it, it doesn't matter.

[C]

Yeah, it doesn't matter. And honestly the reason it doesn't matter because some people might be like, well, that doesn't seem fair. When you're doing an out of state project that lasts for years. It all evens out. It really does. It just, you know, and there will be times where you're like, okay, maybe we should have charged more for that trip. And then there's other times you're like, okay, well we weren't there as long this time or our hotel wasn't as expensive or whatever it might be. It always evens out. And I think if you talk to your client about it up front and they know, hey, when we go down there, this is the day rate of us being there, they already know what they're going to be paying, so there's no surprises. And honestly I don't want a client making travel arrangements for me. So, you know, we, we make sure that we have control over all of that.

[A]

How often do you plan to visit a job and is that part of the conversation with the client as well when they're thinking about what their project will cost?

[C]

Absolutely. The more you do this, the more you can kind of give them a hey, if, if this is the scope of work, you will estimate that we'll have to travel there during because there are lulls in the project. You know, you'll go down for your electrical walkthrough or what, you know, whatever it might be. But then you may not have to go back down there for a while while you're waiting for the trades people to finish whatever it is they're working on. So, and then there's, you know, at the end where you're down there a lot more. There's, you know, the beginning's always busy and the end's always busy and sometimes there's lows in the middle where a lot of that work can be done remote. You have to be good at knowing your clients and what they're comfortable with as you get to know them through the project. So we've had clients where we've asked permission basically every time, like, hey, and not just permission, but hey, we have an electrical walkthrough. It's really important that we're there for this. We would like to go down to the project for two days. Do you approve that? Never had a client say no, but I feel like they are, you know, we're allowing them to make that decision about their own finances. And so it's the communication like that's so important. We don't just get on a plane and you know, shoot ourselves to whatever state we're going to.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, and then later on say, oh well, we were down there for four days, here's your bill. You know, like that's not a good way to get good clients. So we, we don't do that. But. And then we've had other clients where they were like, you know what? We trust you to know what when you need to be there, you don't really need to get our approval on this. You're free to work with the builder or whoever it might be on our behalf as you see fit. And again, we're very conscious of, we're trying to create more work or more bills for the client than you need. And I mean, I want them to have every last bit of their budget ready for the, the end. We want them to have all of that at the end because we want the prettiest project that we can get because ultimately like this is going to go on our price portfolio. So we want it to look the very best that it can. And if we're not sticking to the client's budget in the, the first phase of the project, we'll never going to get to the end and we'll never get our photos.

[A]

What are the most essential touch points to be on site? What are sort of the, the non negotiable moments where you would absolutely make a trip?

[C]

I think the initial walkthrough with the client, walking the, the property, knowing what's, you know, going to go where. I think meeting in person with the architect, the builder, any tradespeople on that project, I think that's really important. And I'm a huge believer in you have to have a good relationship with the people that you're working on these projects with because ultimately our ideas are just ideas until those people build them or make them. And so if you don't have a good relationship with those people, they're less likely to work really hard to make your vision come to life, in my experience. And so I think if you can build a good friendship with them even during the process, they're so much more willing to let you know if something comes up or be there for you and advocate for each other. I can't say that enough. Like we all have to be a team on these projects. We can't. It can't be one of those situations like you see on Instagram, where it's like, oh, when the designer shows up and all the tradespeople are, like, hiding or cringing, that's not what you want to be. You want them to be like, oh, great, they're here. We're excited to see you. Let's show you what we've been working on so that you can see it come to life. And I think a lot of times on any project, the designer has to plead their case of why a certain detail that they want to see happen happens. You know, because a lot of times you get a pushback on. It's too difficult. We've never done that before. You know, we don't. We feel like we could do it this way, and it would be just as, you know, as good as what you're seeing. And you have to have a good relationship with them, so they want to listen to you and they want to execute your design. And then there's electrical walkthroughs. There's. I mean, that is so important. Right? Where are the lighting? Where's the lighting going to go? In the initial part of the project, the, you know, the framing, when bathrooms start, you know, and you're laying tile, I always ask to get dry lays of the tile ahead of time. Flooring, walkthroughs, what the transitions are going to be from one room to the next. Even, like, the trim work, you know, how that. Your trim pieces, whatever that design might be, how they meet each other and what that looks like. And I think that's so important. And a lot of times, if you're working with good builders, they will also have their schedule. Right. And so looking at their schedule and working with them and then knowing, like, what we need to. To be at, I think is crucial.

[A]

But all those touch points are better in person.

[C]

Absolutely. I mean, there's things that. There's things that you just can't see via FaceTime. I think about that Florida project that we just finished, I would fly down there, literally for the day. I would get on, like, an 8am flight, get there, drive to the site, which was a good hour, at least from the airport because it was on an island, and walk through with the tile installers and just pick out grout colors and make sure all the grout colors were correct for all the bathrooms and the tile was being laid correctly. And then we would go through it for a few hours, and then I would drive Straight back to the airport and hop on that flight and go back. And I did that really to conserve the clients, you know, their budgets. You know, I don't, I don't need to spend the night so I can see the Tyler for, you know. And honestly, I got, I mean, even though I was coming home late, I was still at least sleeping in my bed. And my kid, you know, I was there in the morning when my kids got up. So my biggest thing has been run a project the way you would want someone to run your own project. Are they being conscientious of the budget? Are they really being like, fair about how they're doing things? Are being detail oriented? Like, are they being on site when it's absolutely necessary as opposed to, you know, they just came down to walk through the site just to check it out, you know, I mean, like, are you really billing for hours that absolutely need to be billed or you just doing it because, I don't know, you just wanted to go see what the progress was.

[A]

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[C]

That particular Florida project was different. It started as a remodel. The clients took the home on the beach and they were remodeling the home. We had gone down there, I would say a total of maybe eight times over the course of a year. And we'd been working with the architect to remodel the home via Zoom. Also had met with them in person to walk the site. We had selected lighting, we had selected tile flooring, things like that. We got a call on about a year later I think it was even on New Year's Day. And the client said, hey, so we love everything that you're doing, but you know, this house just really isn't going in the direction that we really want. It's just not the style that we want. And so we've decided we're going to tear the house down and start fresh and build a brand new, which, I mean, that's like the greatest thing ever. You can hear as like, I mean, I was disappointed that we weren't going to see that initial design come to life, but also at the same time I thought, well, this is fantastic, you know. So we worked on that project for about five years.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And from start to finish. So that one is a little bit different. I would say a normal out of state project probably is about a two year project. We just finished one in Chicago and I would say total, it was a good two and a half years. And that one was different because the client was so involved in it. Her and I would FaceTime sometimes weekly or at least bi weekly. She was helping get samples and things like that. She was doing a lot of the grunt work, if you will, for us. And that kept us from having to be there all the time. Like we weren't having to go up to Chicago to source things or to meet with contractors. Like she would meet with them and then she would report back to us, almost like an employee, if you know what I mean.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And she did a great job. And so that was different. Right, because that client was so involved where our, our clients in Florida, they're very busy and they have, you know, five children and they just, they're running their own businesses and things like that. And so we went to Florida quite a bit and they were wonderful because they allowed us to be in every aspect of that project. We, we met with the architect, with builder, with the landscaper. I mean, everyone. And the attention to detail on that project was at a level that you don't get to see in a lot of projects that we personally get to work on. In this, you know, in this area.

[A]

The client that's really involved, the client that's almost like an employee in some ways. Is that always welcome? Or how would you vet a client who wants to be involved in that way?

[C]

So I would say this particular client, I think our personalities just meshed really well together. You've got to interview your clients the same way they're interviewing you from the beginning. And if you get any red flags or you get any twinges where you're like, I don't know, like, But I'll overlook that they don't. You, you know, because ultimately you want to provide a good product for the client. You want those people to tell everybody what a delight it was to work with you, and you want them to refer you to all of their friends and family and et cetera. If you aren't meshing well with that client from the very beginning, it's not going to get better. As bills start coming in and the project starts going, it's just not. So if it's not wonderful at the beginning, then you really have to ask yourself, do you, do you want to see this all the way through to the end? And I'll even tell clients when I initially meet them, I say, listen, you have to like as much as you like my design. You have to like me because we're going to be married to each other for at least the next two years. So if you don't like me or there's things about my personality that just don't, like, mesh well with yours, then I'm really not the best fit for you. And I really want you to consider that as you're making a choice in what designer you're going to choose. But as far as like the end of the question of like, do you want that over a client that's not super involved? I mean, I think it's kind of like a catch 22, right? Like, you have a client that's really involved and if it works, it works, but if it doesn't, it's bad, right? You have a client that's not involved at all and you're working on this project and then they show up at the end and they weren't involved and they don't like it. Well, then what do you do in that situation? Right? So you can't turn around and we'll say, well, you weren't involved. I mean, you own your client, you know, so it really goes back to those clear expectations from the very beginning and how well your personalities work with each other. And you know, do you like them as much as they like you? And are you going to provide a service at the very beginning that builds their trust and then they can kind of relinquish that control as the project moves forward.

[A]

The question asker here specifically referenced how hard it is to rely on on the ground partners when you don't necessarily have years of, you know, built in relationships and established trust. Are there shortcuts to getting those or starting to develop those relationships on these long Distance projects or how do you think about getting to know the other team members when you're the one who's remote?

[C]

I think that being respectful of everybody on the team is really important. I think that if you show that you respect what they're doing, that you need them on the project. I mean, small tokens of kindness I think go a long ways. You know, buying them lunch when you come down to visit or sending them, you know, some thank you gifts for, you know, thanks for that great meeting that we had with our client. We really appreciate your part that you play on this team. I think it means a lot to people, especially in this industry, when somebody of a different trade thanks them for their part in the project. Because you really all need each other, you know, and we've all worked on projects where this tradesperson threw that trades person under the bus. Or, you know, that happens, that can happen on projects where, you know, it's a past the blame game. And I think that if from the, really from the very beginning, if you can really establish that you, you're a team player with them and you're nice to them and you're respectful of their time and you're respectful of their designs and their process, I think that goes a long, long way. You don't have to love each other, but you have to like each other enough, you know, to, to be able to work together. And you can't have people on the team blaming you for, like, to the client, you know. And I'll be honest, I've worked on projects before where a client was told by a trades person that, you know, we weren't handling things the correct way. And thankfully we had proof that we had been handling things the correct way. We were able to show the client that and that pretty much, you know, that stopped that right then and there, you know, So I, I think it's just covering yourself with, you know, communication, making sure that, you know, you have, you're very organized because that's a huge part of out of state projects. The organization, having your schedules, you know, having somebody that's specifically assigned to that project. Because we juggle a lot of projects at the same time. But one thing that we do in this office is I oversee all the projects, but I have specific people assigned to specific projects. Projects with a specific point of contact for the trades people and for the client. So emails are getting responded to quickly. We know when tiles coming in, we know when lighting's coming in, we know what the paint schedule is, we know that the wallpaper is Coming on Tuesday at 10, you know, and we're following up to make sure if we're not going to be on site, somebody's going to be on site to meet them. Those type of things. We're making sure that things aren't being delivered to the incorrect address or whatever because we had that happen on this project, you know, like something got delivered to, you know, the builder's parking lot instead of to the, the storage unit, you know, and then we fix that and we, we got it fixed. But, you know, it's like all of us working together and you know, them not calling us and being upset that it was delivered there, but being like, hey, you know what? This got delivered here. I don't think it was supposed to. And us being like, okay, yeah, you're right, it wasn't supposed to. We'll get that, you know, and everybody working together and giving each other grace when things like that arise. One of the things that we do with our out of state projects is we usually have a storage facility that we work with and we get to know whoever our point of contact is at that storage facility really well. And it's usually a white glove delivery service that can store all of the products that are being sent because they come in, you know, at all different times. And you can't send product a lot of time to a job site that isn't secure. So we will find a white glove delivery service that can receive, you know, the plumbing, the lighting, the tile, like depending on what it is, and then they can make those deliveries to the site when those items are needed.

[A]

Have you had remote projects where maybe the build team is not as excited to communicate in that way?

[C]

Oh, absolutely. And when that happens, it requires us to be there more. And if it requires us to be there more, then we do have to communicate to the client that, you know, we don't want to go out to the project this month. But because we're not getting that information that we need from those people, it requires us to go get it because if we don't have it, here are the things that could happen. And so I think when those things happen, we then have to turn to the client and ask the client to mediate the issue for us so that we can solve the, you know, the problem. And thankfully we've never had any issues where it's gotten really, really bad. But you know, it, that stuff happens, you know, and it, and not every builder is as organized as the next and, you know, and team to team, person to person. So I think this job, there's a lot of pivoting that has to happen and adjusting. And so you just, you know, you can sit and complain about it all day long or you can find the most positive approach possible and play nice in the sandbox and get the project done. I mean, I've said on projects before, I've actually said the words, we all have to be adults and ultimately provide the best product that we absolutely can for this client. Because ultimately we are all being paid by this client. So let's pull it together guys, and get it done. We can do this.

[A]

If someone is brand new at taking on long distance work, what are the most important things that you would advise them to do first to set themselves up for success?

[C]

I think having clear, written explanations of how your business works, of what your process is. I would highly recommend having your clients, not only, you know, a lot of people email, and we used to do this too. You just, you know, you get a client that you onboard them, yay, everything's great. You send them your contract, they sign it, they send it back. It's so crazy how many times you think to yourself, did they even read this? Why are they asking me these questions? I had it in my contract. Well, nobody wants to have to say, referring to page three in our contract.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Do this. You know, you don't ever want to get into that situation. So I think it's really important to meet with the client. Even if it's via Zoom, you know, where they have a copy of your welcome packet or your contract or whatever it is that where you're going over it with them in person and then they're able to ask questions along the way. And I also think it's really important for them to be signing off on things, you know, whether it's that you, you know, you require them to purchase, you know, their furnishings through them or their, whatever that is. And most of the time it has to do with money, you know, you know, I always say, like economics guys, like it all comes back to what is the client comfortable paying for?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And do they know from the very beginning that your expectation is that they will pay for these things? And I think if you can set that up from the very beginning, I think that's typically the most talked about. And maybe the thing that people feel uncomfortable about, you know, they 100% they don't want to talk about the money part. And we're all doing this for the money part. I mean, I think that's really important. And one of the things I've noticed in my years of doing this is that if budgets aren't clear from the very beginning what design fees will be and you don't have the client sign off on and agree to paying you your design fees for the entire project, they will eliminate you from the project if things start to get out of budget. So the designer is there at the end to make it all come together and orchestrate everything and turn it into the beautiful project that it was meant to be. A lot of times that gets lost in the minutia of, hey, we're over budget, you know, well, guess what, we don't have any money for the designer anymore. We may have agreed to sell spend x amount of dollars on design services, but now the builder just told us that we owe another, you know, $100,000. Whatever it is, you guys are out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, if, if you haven't established from the very beginning that you're essential to the job and that they have, you know, contractually agreed to pay your fees, there's a good chance that you might get eliminated before the end of the project. And then it's not your project anymore, you know, and then you worked on this project for however long and you're not getting, you're not getting what you want at the end. And that's to have this beautiful finished project that you can be proud of, that you can then photograph and use to, you know, get new, more awesome clients. So I always tell people like, you got, you got to talk about the money from the very beginning and the expectations of what you're going to provide based on what they're going to pay you.

[A]

Zooming out a little. Are you evaluating a remote job differently than something that's nearby is something that might be a yes for you where it's easy to drive to the job site and know if it's far away?

[C]

Absolutely. We, we're currently working on a project in Maryland that is, it's a smaller, out of state project. So we've structured that one differently from, you know, from a scope of work perspective, like and, and what we required of the client for minimum of design hours. And the reason being is we wanted to work on this project. We loved the project. It was a family home. It had been in their family for a long time. And we liked the client and so we wanted to work on the project. The client wasn't comfortable initially with remote pricing. She didn't want to, you know, have to pay a day rate for us to travel there, but she was totally okay with us doing it remotely via Zoom. And we meet with her weekly, I think weekly, bi weekly, and go through the project. And, you know, it's put her in a position where she's obviously needs to be more involved in the project because she has to speak with the contractor and so on and so forth. But that one, you know, so that's a remote project, but it's different, right? Like, and it's okay. There's typically, like, depending on where it is and what it entails and the size of the project. You know, if it were a really large project, like for instance, you know, the ones I've had in Florida in the past, or even the one in Chicago we just finished up recently, I would never take it on unless the client was comfortable with, you know, paying those remote rates, I guess, if you will, because it just wouldn't be able to be done properly. And so we've had clients in the past that had projects that were really, really large and they didn't want us to be on site, they wanted us to do it remotely. And we. We've actually had to turn them down because I wasn't comfortable taking on those projects knowing that we wouldn't be able to, you know, do it in the way that it needed to be done. Things would get missed and it wouldn't be done right. And then they'd be paying for a project that ultimately, you know, wouldn't be an end product that we would be proud of. One thing that I would suggest is if you're going to take a remote job, you need to actually look at the location that you would be traveling to. You know, I mean, don't have a set price for remote work because it's. You can't, in my opinion, you can't have a set price. It has to be based on the location of the project. And not only that, but I would look into how are you going to manage that project, like, really kind of walk through it with your team. Where are you going to have things shipped to? All of the logistical things are so important to know from the beginning. You don't want to be mid project and then have trying to figure out where you're going to ship the tile for the home, you know, things like that. So I think having your logistics down before you accept the project and knowing what that entails from a. From a budgeting aspect, I think that's really important.

[A]

You've got great advice. I have one more question for you. What is the best piece of advice you've ever received?

[C]

I have. I have I would call her my mentor. She's somebody that I actually worked for 25 years ago, and now I'm helping her with some design work for her own home. And I. She's an incredible businesswoman. And one of the things that she said to me recently was I said, you know, I'm deciding, trying to decide whether I wanted to take this next step with my business. And I asked her, did you have a budget? Like, did you think about, like, what your budget was? And she said, anissa, you cannot think about that. You just have to do what you feel is right. And she said, you have to invest in your business because you are investing in yourself and you cannot think about, can I afford this? Can I not afford this? She said, just do what feels right and you will make it work. And I truly believe that. And I look back on how I got from a stay at home mom, you know, who was posting some stuff on Instagram, to now owning my own design firm for years and having projects all over the world. I didn't think about it, you know, I didn't think, I thought about, okay, this feels right. I'm just going to do it. And I've figured it out, you know, and if I wasn't good at it, I probably wouldn't still be here at this point. So I trust myself that I can figure it out. And, you know, that's basically what her advice was. You know, invest in your business. Invest yourself. Trust yourself. You'll figure it out. Me, for me, personally, I didn't start this business to pay my bills. I didn't start this business because I felt like it was something I had to do. But as the business has grown, I've way more responsibility on me than I've ever had before. I have clients, you know, that are leaning on me. I have employees that are leaning on me. I have my children's future now that leans on me, you know, and it's like sometimes you, you step back and you think, well, how the heck did this all happen? I just wanted to design, you know, things, and I just, I liked rearranging my furniture in my house, you know, and now all of a sudden I'm here. So there is a lot of responsibility that comes with becoming successful in something that you're passionate about. But I think you can inhibit yourself by getting caught up in the weight of all of it, and it can hold you back where you kind of have to hold on to that belief at the very beginning of, you know what? I'm just going to do it like, you know, I'm just going to. I'm just going to. I'm going to go for it, and I. And I'm going to figure it out. And if I don't figure it out, like, something else will happen and, you know, that'll be my path, you know, And I don't mean like a different career path. I just mean, like, maybe that wasn't exactly the right road to take and you figure out a new path. I think unintentionally or subconsciously, I guess I believed in myself from the very beginning that I could do this. So why, why would I stop now?

[A]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and for everyone listening with a question of your own. I'd love for you to ask us anything. Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous. Please start the conversation by sending me an [e-mail] if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. And if you're looking for even more great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com trade deals is produced by me, Kaitlin Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Carolyn Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you here next week.