Ask Us Anything: Courtney McLeod on developing systems to power your projects

Summary

Trade Tales Podcast Summary: Ask Us Anything with Courtney McLeod on Developing Systems to Power Your Projects

Release Date: March 5, 2025

Podcast Information

• Title: Trade Tales
• Host/Author: Kaitlin Petersen, Editor-in-Chief of Business of Home
• Description: Kaitlin Petersen engages with interior designers to explore nurturing creativity, achieving financial stability, setting goals, and defining personal success within their firms.
• Episode: Ask Us Anything: Courtney McLeod on Developing Systems to Power Your Projects

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Introduction

In the latest episode of Trade Tales, host Kaitlin Petersen introduces a new segment titled "Ask Us Anything," where she addresses pressing questions from interior designers seeking to enhance their business operations. This episode features Courtney McLeod (referred to as Ty Brittingham in the transcript), a seasoned interior designer known for her organized approach and recent appearance on an HBO Max design show.

The Designer's Challenge: Lack of Systems

Timestamp: [00:02] – [05:08]

Kaitlin begins by presenting a question from a solo designer struggling to establish a clear process. Despite having a vision of successful projects, she finds herself frequently searching through notes and lacking a systematic approach. The designer expresses frustration over "flying by the seat of [her] pants" and the absence of a reliable database to reference past solutions.

Notable Quote:

"I have found myself in scenarios where we're flying by the seat of our pants or, like, flying the plane while we're building it." — Unnamed Designer [01:04]

Guest Introduction: Courtney McLeod

Timestamp: [06:56] – [08:42]

Kaitlin introduces Courtney McLeod, highlighting her New York-based firm’s creative resurgence and her recent success on HBO Max’s "Taking Back the House." Courtney shares her journey from experiencing burnout to reigniting her creative energy through new projects and refining her business processes.

Notable Quote:

"Having that done, having the show come out, having it be successful, that was really great. But it was also kind of like getting something really big off the plate so that you could make room for new things." — Courtney McLeod [08:22]

Developing Systems for Interior Design Businesses

Timestamp: [09:00] – [27:00]

Courtney delves into the importance of documenting processes to alleviate the chaos of daily operations. She emphasizes creating a detailed step-by-step guide that outlines every aspect of project management, from client onboarding to final delivery. This documentation serves as both a personal reference and a foundational tool for future hires.

Notable Quote:

"The best investment you can make is to sit down and literally write down step by step by step, not only your current process, but what would your ideal way of working be." — Courtney McLeod [10:29]

She outlines practical steps for developing these systems:

• Client Onboarding: Detailed procedures for signing contracts, collecting retainers, and setting up project management tools.
• Workflow Phases: Breaking down projects into manageable stages with specific actions for each phase.
• Templates and Documentation: Creating reusable templates for contracts, questionnaires, and budgets to streamline operations.

Notable Quote:

"Every project is learning, and so this is a working, living document. And I think that's also really important because in the beginning I thought, oh, well, one day everything will be great and I'll have this all set." — Courtney McLeod [13:59]

Importance of Documentation and Process

Timestamp: [27:39] – [28:04]

Courtney discusses the balance between internal documentation and client-facing documents. She explains that internal processes should drive client interactions, ensuring consistency and efficiency without overwhelming the client with unnecessary details.

Notable Quote:

"What the client sees is an output from our process. Right? So start with your internal process document." — Courtney McLeod [25:26]

Balancing Internal Documents and Client Communication

Timestamp: [28:04] – [29:37]

The conversation shifts to how internal processes translate into client communication. Courtney emphasizes the importance of having structured yet flexible systems that allow for personalized client interactions without deviating from established workflows.

Notable Quote:

"This is something you should do as a principal alone and have sort of figured out before you make a first hire." — Courtney McLeod [15:11]

Overcoming Anxiety with Documentation

Timestamp: [29:53] – [31:48]

Courtney addresses the anxiety that often accompanies a lack of structure in a growing design business. She advocates for comprehensive documentation as a means to reduce stress, providing a clear roadmap that allows designers to focus on creativity without being bogged down by operational uncertainties.

Notable Quote:

"I don't have to be thinking about all of this and have it all in my brain and oh my God, am I going to mess something up? Because it's all written down for me." — Courtney McLeod [30:18]

Final Advice: Dream Big

Timestamp: [31:48] – [33:26]

Concluding the episode, Courtney shares her most impactful business advice: dream big. Encouraged by a coach to set "unrealistic goals," she explains how this mindset shift has led to significant personal and professional growth.

Notable Quote:

"Take that dream big goal setting thing seriously because it can really change your life." — Courtney McLeod [32:00]

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Key Takeaways

1. Establish Detailed Processes: Document every step of your workflow to create consistency and reduce reliance on memory.
2. Create a Living Document: Allow your processes to evolve with your business, continuously refining them based on project experiences.
3. Balance Structure and Flexibility: Develop internal systems that support client interactions without becoming rigid.
4. Invest Time Early On: Dedicate time to setting up your processes before scaling your business, ensuring a solid foundation.
5. Dream Bigger: Setting ambitious goals can drive significant growth and open up unexpected opportunities.

Conclusion

This episode of Trade Tales provides invaluable insights for interior designers grappling with the challenges of running a solo business. Courtney McLeod’s experience underscores the importance of developing robust systems to streamline operations, enhance client satisfaction, and foster sustainable growth. By embracing detailed documentation and maintaining flexibility, designers can transform chaotic workflows into efficient, scalable processes.

For more business advice and inspiring stories from the interior design world, be sure to subscribe to Trade Tales on Apple Podcasts and leave a review to support the show.

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Produced by Kaitlin Peterson and Caroline Burke. Edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castanega. Theme music by Kyle Scott Wilson.

Transcript

[Caitlin Peterson]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything, a new show where I'll be tapping former trade sales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. Some weeks we'll be workshopping a crisis. In others, we'll take a step back to talk about the big picture. Things like embracing change, hiring, or how to level up. No question is out of bounds. No question is too large or too small. And we're keeping it confident. So this is always a safe space to air your frustration and share your fears. This week, I'm excited to field a question from a designer who's been in business for herself for about a year. At this point, she knows what a successful project should look like. But without a clear process in place, she often finds herself searching her notes for the next step. Here's what she had to say.

[Unnamed Designer]

Like, I've been here before. Why does it feel like I'm doing it for the first time?

[Caitlin Peterson]

Again, our question asker is still a team of one, mulling whether she should figure out her systems first and then make a hire, or if it makes more sense to onboard someone sooner and build a process together. But mostly, she's just been busy since she went out on her own, juggling a mix of full service and furnishings projects that don't leave much room for reflection. When I got on the phone with this designer, we talked about what she feels is really holding her back. Here's how that call unfolded. Do you find yourself scrambling to look for how you solved the problem last time?

[Unnamed Designer]

Yes, exactly. And you just put words to what I'm trying to describe. Actually, the common theme in all of this is that I am constantly wishing that I had almost like a database to go back to with everything, whether that's something that I create myself as I go forth. And then it's like, well, where do I create it? How do I document it? Especially because I'm not the type that just remembers everything. I'm the type that, like, I need to either write things down, reference them. Also, I'm visual, so it's like I have found myself in scenarios where we're flying by the seat of our pants or, like, flying. Flying the plane while we're building it, Right?

[Courtney McLeod]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unnamed Designer]

It's just such a constant theme. And so I'm like, okay, well, first of all, when does that end?

[Caitlin Peterson]

Okay, timeline.

[Courtney McLeod]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unnamed Designer]

And actually, that's literally one of my questions. If you felt this way too, in the beginning, what and how did that change? Was there a pivotal moment, A person, a hire, a resource that helped you really establish the processes in your firm? And I think that's what I'm experiencing is even on the fly where I'm like, oh, this is really important. I need to remember this because I don't want to be in this position again. I want to absorb it, learn from it, and. And then have it in that, like, database.

[Courtney McLeod]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Designer]

Where I can reference it. And then eventually it's going to be, like, a common practice in my business. But the reality is that it's not right now, because I'm learning through experience. Often, you know, there's no time to.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Write all this stuff down.

[Unnamed Designer]

Nothing. Nothing. No. You know, like, every single email is happening in the moment. Every single presentation is happening. I mean, you need a contract. I am, like, hiring a. A remote lawyer to do it, like, two days before. You know, like, it's like, as things come up, I'm figuring it out, and as, you know, and, and. And there's just. There's no time to stop and get it all together.

[Courtney McLeod]

You used the word database earlier like this.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Like, I wish I had this database.

[Courtney McLeod]

If there was a path to, you.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Know, pulling all of this stuff out.

[Courtney McLeod]

Of your brain into some sort of.

[Caitlin Peterson]

System or document, what form would you.

[Courtney McLeod]

Want that to live in?

[Unnamed Designer]

I think that that is something I'm trying to figure out myself now. I have a little buildup of, like, references. You know, thankfully, I have a. I have, like, a contract, and I have, you know, like a how we work and some sort of, like, design presentation template. But I mean, oh, my gosh, it's still such a work in progress, and I think it's all of the in between. Hopefully I'm. I'm creating these, like, pillars of things to reference, but the in betweens are so important, and those are the moments where I'm really craving, like, I wish I just had this all one craze, you know, like, how do people who are 15 years in who have teams, who have, like, an HR team that, like, hands their team, like, where did that begin?

[Caitlin Peterson]

I know this pain in my own work, and it's something that comes up again and again in hundreds of conversations I've had with designers. There's a yearning for an established way of doing things and also a certain paralysis that comes when you're staring down a blank screen trying to create a standard operating procedure out of what feels like thin air. As we ended our call, I knew just who to connect with. To help our question ask her find her footing. All that and more in just a moment. This show is all about solving real designer problems, and I'm so grateful to be able to launch Ask Us Anything with the support of two great brands that share our same goal to make it easier for designers to do great work. This show is made possible by our founding partners, Four Hands and Krypton, whose teams immediately understood our vision for this show and who wanted to jump on board to bring these episodes to life. Because those same values we're talking about here are also at the core of their businesses. I'm so excited to spend the coming year finding answers to all of your biggest business questions, but also to sharing all of the ways that these two brands can amplify your designs, ease your headaches, and help you deliver great outcomes for your clients. Today, I'm joined by former trade deals guest Courtney McLeod, whose New York firm is coming into the new year with a fresh burst of creative energy and who recently starred in a design show on HBO Max. When Courtney was on the show the first time, I was so impressed by how she emphasized the importance of her firm's processes. And she's one of the most organized designers I know. I thought she'd be the perfect person to answer today's question.

[Courtney McLeod]

Courtney, welcome back to the show.

[Ty Brittingham]

Hi, Caitlin. Thank you so much for having me again. It's truly a delight.

[Caitlin Peterson]

How have you been?

[Courtney McLeod]

You were on the show in 2023. What's changed for you since then? What are you working on now that you're most excited about?

[Ty Brittingham]

Sure, sure. Gosh, I cannot believe it's. It's been that long. We have that conversation very.

[Courtney McLeod]

Yesterday. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ty Brittingham]

Time. Time really does fly. No, we're doing really great. Usually January doesn't necessarily. We don't necessarily get a flood of projects in, but this year, we've just started a bunch of projects.

[Courtney McLeod]

Okay.

[Ty Brittingham]

You know, most of the projects are actually folks who. Who bought a new home.

[Courtney McLeod]

That's interesting.

[Ty Brittingham]

Yeah. One of them. It's a second home. Yeah, it's. It's interesting. Maybe that's a good sign for. For New York City real estate. And what's really fun is two of the projects are referrals from clients. Yeah. And it's. It's just always such a lovely feeling when a client, you know, was so happy that they were, you know, happy to. To recommend you. It's the biggest compliment. And so, yeah, so I'm feeling. Feeling really, really good about that. And then in just a couple of weeks, I'm gonna be In a book that's.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Courtney McLeod]

Congratulations. What book?

[Ty Brittingham]

Thank you. It's called Defining Style by Faye Dawn. And, you know, it's. It's troubling times in general, but our little design bubble, thankfully, is a little bit of a refuge and a relief, so I'm very thankful for that.

[Courtney McLeod]

What are you most excited about these days when you walk into work?

[Ty Brittingham]

Oh, that's such a great question. You know, I think last year was a tough year for me. I kind of experienced a period of burnout, I think is the best way to describe it. And I feel like coming into the new year and the new projects that we're working on, I'm feeling really creative, you know, really, like, energetic and just so excited, More so than I've been in a while. And I did a TV show last year and for HBO Max, Taking Back the House. And that was such a huge project that kind of reached. Really consumed us for like a year and a half. And so, you know, having that done, having the show come out, having it be successful, that was really great. But it was also kind of a. Getting something really big kind of off the plate so that you could make room for. For new things. And so, yeah, I'm just feeling really creative.

[Courtney McLeod]

Oh, I love that answer.

[Ty Brittingham]

Yeah.

[Courtney McLeod]

Well, are you ready to give some advice today?

[Ty Brittingham]

I will try my best.

[Courtney McLeod]

So we have a question from a reader who feels like she's flying by the seat of her pants all the time. Just kind of searching constantly for the right answer or for a best practice, basically asking herself all the time, you know, well, I did this once before. How did I do it so that I can do it again? And I think one of the biggest takeaways that I heard from our conversation was that she needs a lot of help starting to document her systems. Did that resonate for you when you heard her question?

[Ty Brittingham]

It really did. You know, I was kind of thinking back on, you know, when I started and what I wish I knew then. And I did about five years or so into my business, I did an exercise that was so helpful and continues to be helpful that I kind of wish I had done earlier on. And it was literally carving out out some time, which I know that's the hard part, right? You're so, so, so busy. But it's the best investment you can make is to sit down and literally write down step by step by step, not only your current process, but what would your ideal way of working be? Okay, I get a client. How do I onboard them? What are the specific you know, individual steps. And then, you know, we have five phases is how we break, break down our workflow. And so then to go into that and get really, really specific. And when I say specific, it's literally, you know, let's say for onboarding, it's like, okay, get the contract signed, you know, get the retainer. Okay, deposit the payment, you know, send the welcome packet. Set them up in our project management system, create the folder in Google Drive, you know, literally all of the steps that you take to get yourself organized. And, you know, I took a couple of hours and, and sat with it, and it was such a great exercise because I was thinking back on projects where, oh, I liked how I did this or I didn't like how I did that. And it was a way for me to really clearly articulate not only how I was working, but how I really wanted to work. Now, the reason that's so important is that it's not only going to help you today, but looking to the future. If you do decide to grow your business, this is the structure that you're going to use for your business, because your business needs to be set up to work perfectly the way your mind works, what is best for you. Because everyone you bring in, they're going to tailor themselves to you. And if you don't have a super, super, super clear idea of how you want to work step by step by step, how are you going to communicate that to people, you know, that you bring in? And how are you going to stay on track? At first, when I did this, I would refer to it a lot, and over time, I refer back to it a little bit less because it's become so second nature. And, you know, every project is learning, and so this is a working, living document. And I think that's also really important because in the beginning I thought, oh, well, one day everything will be great and I'll have this, all my things set, and then I won't have to think about it again. And that's just not. That's not the reality. And it isn't an expectation you should have. You know, everything should evolve. As you are evolving as a designer and as your business is evolving. It's. I think it's. It's a natural, healthy part of the process that I think we've sort of convinced ourselves is a sign that we're doing something wrong. So I'm always approaching my process and my documents and all of that in, in that way. It's, it's a fluid thing. And, and that is not a Bad thing.

[Courtney McLeod]

Do you just duplicate that document and then have a version of that document for every project or how do you use it in a way that can be sort of tweaked or personalized for each job?

[Ty Brittingham]

Yes, exactly. That's what we do. And you know, for each client we create a drive in our Google Drive, a shared drive, and then we have five or six subfolders that are the same for every project. There's like a presentations folder and a drawings folder, you know, and, you know, that kind of thing. And so as part of us setting that up for each client, these kinds of documents get copied into that client folder, if that makes sense. So whatever's relevant to that project, it gets copied in.

[Courtney McLeod]

You mentioned, you know, this question of, you know, if you don't have this stuff written down, how are you going to communicate that with people that you bring onto your team? And I think that was actually one of our questions was is this something you should do as a principal alone and have sort of figured out before you make a first hire, or is this something that you could hire someone and then develop a process that works for both of you together?

[Ty Brittingham]

So in my experience, it was a bit of both. I started to do this before I brought on our studio director, but it wasn't until I brought her on Ty Brittingham. She was the one that really helped to solidify and refine and really make it become central to how we work on a day to day basis. And so that hire was so, so important, having that person who could come in and sort of have an operations mindset towards it. And it's actually really great because I'm like a proud, proud mama. I is actually. She started her own company, it's called Oracle Operations. And she's basically doing that for small businesses, for solopreneurs, newer designers, basically helping them create what we're talking about. But it would not have gone well if I had not already really put thought and time into how do I want to work, what works best for me so that I could communicate that to her and we could work together to figure out, okay, what are the actual steps that translate from what I'm talking about. So unfortunately, it isn't something where you can truly just give it to someone.

[Courtney McLeod]

Else, outsource it and be like, make me a process.

[Ty Brittingham]

Yeah, you really, really have to take that time and it's an investment in yourself and it's one of the smartest investments. So, yeah, I can't recommend it enough.

[Courtney McLeod]

I know one of the things you said that resonated with you was sort of scurrying through your inbox trying to figure out how you solved this problem last time.

[Ty Brittingham]

Yes.

[Courtney McLeod]

What does it take to sort of create a resource guide for yourself of those kinds of things that fall outside of the, like, step one A, step one B, but that are just as sort of essential to getting a project across the finish line to keeping a client happy?

[Ty Brittingham]

That's such a great question. And you know what? When you really drill down, it ultimately gets back to step A and B and C. Okay, it does.

[Courtney McLeod]

So nothing is immune from being in the checklist.

[Ty Brittingham]

It really, really does. And I'm saying that having, you know, made all the mistakes and have done this many, many times, and it always comes back to something went wrong in the process. Maybe I didn't handle a step properly, or maybe we could be doing something differently. But I think that part of the problem is, you know, something goes wrong, and it can feel very amorphous. It can feel kind of overwhelming. And so I think when you do start to drill down, then it becomes measurable bits. It becomes things that are achievable. And I think that's really important because if you only stay at a sort of bigger problem level, it can feel like, oh, God, I'll never figure out how to solve this, when maybe it's actually these five small steps is how you solve that bigger problem.

[Courtney McLeod]

What's an example of that?

[Ty Brittingham]

You know, I think one of them actually would be with the. The intake call. I found that I was spending too much time on every single call. And then sometimes it would just. It's totally not the right fit. You know, it just. It just. But I still spent 45 minutes on the phone with someone, and I was like, gosh, I just don't know, like, how to. How do I shrink this and still communicate? And blah, blah, blah. And I realized it was. It was simply a matter of rearranging how I approached the conversation to suss out earlier if this really is not the right fit. You know, I was sort of too excited to hear about the project and tell them all about how we work and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is all the benefits. And. And then it comes down to, oh, actually, I just, you know, needed a coffee table, and I have a $50 budget. And then I say, oh, we don't do that. We don't do that. You know, Whereas if I had just, you know, been more clear at the beginning, so now, you know, I can very quickly figure out, okay, yeah, this is actually A project that could be a good fit. Okay. It makes sense for me to allocate more time to starting to reel in this client. And so that was one that at first it felt like kind of a big problem. I just was like, God, I don't know how people do this efficiently. And then when I kind of broke it down and I was like, wait a second, this is. This is what I'm actually saying on. On these calls. I was like, that doesn't make any sense. You know, and part of how I knew what I was saying was that I had, in my interior design process, I had. I had written down again, all my specifics. And I literally was like, you know what? Let me move this step up and push the step down. And then the next time I tried that and it worked.

[Courtney McLeod]

Did you mostly push up talking about, like, scope and fees?

[Ty Brittingham]

Yep. One of the biggest things was, do you have a budget? Well, our typical project is this range, you know, our typical living room is this range, you know, does that. Is that sort of the ballpark? You know, and then that's the 10 minute, like, oh, yeah, no, someone's either.

[Courtney McLeod]

Gonna be like, yeah, we're all in, or like, we gotta go, sorry.

[Ty Brittingham]

Exactly. Exactly. Whereas I was. I was trying to sell them on all of the fabulous things we do before I got to that question. And a little bit of that was lack of confidence on my part. And, you know, I think it was a little bit of fear of turning someone away too quickly who, at the end of the day, wasn't a good fit any anyway. But, you know, I think that changing that, it not only helped to save me time, make the. The vetting process smoother, it also, you know, helped boost confidence. You know, it helped in those little ways to do that. So. So that was one where it literally, you know, it kind of felt like, oh, I'm just. I don't know what to do. And then when I just drilled down, I was like, oh, I'll just make this little switch, you know, and it might seem obvious, but it didn't become obvious to me until I had written it down and said, oh, this is how to fix that. Now, you can translate that to any part of your business.

[Courtney McLeod]

I mean, I know you said that the process is kind of never set in stone, but how long did it take making maybe bigger changes before you felt like, you know, like, okay, this is really working for me.

[Ty Brittingham]

Yeah. So by the time I sat down to. To do this exercise, you know, I had worked on a few projects that I felt were kind of ideal, you know, they, they, they went really well. I, I liked how it turned out. So I, I, I leaned on, okay, what did I do in those projects that you know, to get from step one to step two to step three? Because I knew for whatever reason that was a template for success and a big part of a successful project. It's not just your client is really happy. You have to be really happy with how it was to work on that project. You know, what, what was your work life like while you were working on that project? And you know, having had a few of those experiences, it helped to formulate this. Even today, something will happen and I'll think, gosh, you know, I think we could be doing this better. And I hop in my process document and I'll, I'll make an update. You know, I'm not afraid to make those kinds of changes because again, I think that it's a sign that I, as a business owner am thinking strategically about process. And it's never a bad idea to be thinking strategically about your process.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Our question today is all about how to develop the systems that make running a project feel more manageable. Whether you're building a mood board, placing orders or tracking your shipment, FourHance has developed tools to ease the administrative lift. They offer assets like high res product photos and lifestyle imagery, which makes it easy to share your vision. Real time inventory updates so you always have a clear picture of what's possible. And features like guest accounts for your clients that put you in the driver's seat when it comes to sharing details like pricing. As a designer, you automatically unlock wholesale pricing with no order minimums and deeper discounts the more you spend. Explore the benefits of shopping with Four Hands for your next [e-mail] TradeTales that's fourhands.com TradeTales.

[Courtney McLeod]

One thing that I thought was really interesting about this question, as we dive, we're kind of diving into it was this idea that she talked about documentation. I have a contract now I have a how we work document which are totally structure and systems for the client to consume. But what you're talking about is a totally internal document. How do you strike the balance between the two? Or how do you develop those two sort of in parallel so that they support one?

[Ty Brittingham]

Another great question. And the answer is everything flows out from the internal document. By that I mean that what the client sees is an output from our process. Right? So start with your internal process and that will show you pretty quickly the moments where it makes sense to have some sort of client communication and where you can have that kind of templated communication. Right. And so for me, as I think back, and again, this. It can feel so overwhelming. It's like, where do I even start? So I say start, start with that internal process document. And then, you know, you've got your base contract. You know, I think it's a worthy investment upfront. Have an attorney help you with a base contract. You've got that, you've got your internal process document. And then, you know, a couple of early templates, you know, like your client questionnaire, that's a great one that you can be working on early on. And there are so many examples online and things like that. That's how I started with mine. I just kind of culled questions from different ones that I found, you know, then I worked on a budget template for how we kind of track the inflows and outflows for a project. So I worked on that. Now I have a good budget template.

[Courtney McLeod]

Does the client see that budget document or no?

[Ty Brittingham]

So there's a bigger document that the client doesn't see, but the client sees part of it. Okay, so that's another great point, that all of these internal documents, it's not a waste. Like, you're using this information to populate what the client ultimately sees. So I wouldn't feel like, oh, this is just kind of internal and I'm not doing anything with this. It absolutely, again, drives everything the client sees. And then over time, work on the other templates. You know, I did this. I said, oh, I'm going to take a whole day, one day, and I'm going to do all my templates.

[Courtney McLeod]

Oh, my gosh, you're going to lose your mind.

[Ty Brittingham]

You will.

[Courtney McLeod]

It's.

[Ty Brittingham]

It's not going to work. You know, I can tell you from experience it won't work. But I think if you, if you invest in, in this process document over time, you can add in all of those other items that, you know, sort of help to build it out. And again, like, just give yourself a break.

[Courtney McLeod]

I may be getting a few steps ahead of myself here, but do you also include checkboxes for, like, the soft things? Like, this is where the client might start to get antsy, send them a note or things like that that aren't necessarily deliverables or, you know, must dos. But that might be sort of like a nice to do thing.

[Ty Brittingham]

That's one that I think I still struggle with, and I've tried to fit that into the superstructure template thing. There are some Things that don't make sense in that superstructure part. So this is, this is a great part of understanding how you like to work. And you know, what fits best for you? For me having more flexibility in the communication. So that, let's say it is a situation like you described. Maybe I need to be doing more reach out with that client. You know, maybe they need a little bit more hand holding than the other client. That's something that's not going to be in a. Step by step by step because I don't necessarily want to add that to my. Step by step by step because not every client needs it and it's, it's a bit of extra work. So, you know, if I, if I come across something like that and I'm, I'm kind of doing this extra, you know, let's, let's keep things moving, you know, that isn't something that I want to become structure in my business. I don't wanna.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ty Brittingham]

I don't want to direct clients into, into something like that. So, so I think that's a good example of a place where I made the decision and said, you know what, this is actually the spot where I want flexibility.

[Courtney McLeod]

One thing I want to normalize is that panicky feeling of doing great work but knowing it's not maybe sustainable the way you're doing it and really earnestly looking for structure. Can you talk a little bit about existing in that feeling and what it will feel like to transit out of that phase of your business?

[Ty Brittingham]

Yeah, that's why I think it's so important to give yourself a break. Break, you know, because it's, you're putting that pressure on yourself and it's, it's not necessary. They say like, like things like journaling things like, like writing things down. It can really kind of feel like a weight is lifted just, just writing something down. I think part of what I'm talking about and really writing down that step by step. I found that some of the anxiety went away because I was like, oh, okay, I don't have to be thinking about all of this and have it all in my brain and oh my God, am I going to mess something up? Because it's all written down for me, you know, so I can kind of relax a little bit. That's why I'm, you know, again speaking from experience and having driven myself to madness. Why couldn't I be better? You know, I wish I could go back and tell myself, write it down, take a breath. And it doesn't all have to be done right now, to have successful projects, you can be learning and figuring this out and still be really successful with your projects, because every project you're learning, every project you're improving. And that's why it's so important for these types of things to be living documents. They need to be able to change and grow with you.

[Courtney McLeod]

Before I let you go, I wanted to take a minute to ask you, what is the best piece of business.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Advice you've ever received?

[Ty Brittingham]

So the best piece of business advice I received was from a coach that I worked with very early on. And one of the things we worked on was goal setting. And you know, she said, you know, put together your goals and they were all really realistic. And she said, this is great, but I need you to put the quote, unquote, unrealistic goals. I need you to dream bigger than you think you can. And at the time I was like, oh, this is nuts, you know, but the number of things that have happened that have manifested from the, oh, that's impossible. That would, I could never achieve that has been crazy. And so I took that advice and now every year I've got my goals and then I've got my dream goals. And the dream goals are just as real as the day to day goals. And every single year, the universe is like, you know, we're gonna figure out a way to make something happen for you. And it works. It really, really does work. And take that dream big goal setting thing seriously because it can really change your life.

[Caitlin Peterson]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and for everyone listening with a question of your own. I'd love for you to ask us anything. Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous. Please start the conversation by sending me an [e-mail] if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. And if you're looking for even more great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Kaitlyn Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castanega. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you here next week.