Ask Us Anything: DuVäl Reynolds on finding new clients in a slowdown

Summary

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Trade Tales: Ask Us Anything

Episode: DuVäl Reynolds on Finding New Clients in a Slowdown
Host: Kaitlin Petersen, Business of Home
Guest: DuVäl Reynolds, Interior Designer
Date: February 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this “Ask Us Anything” installment of Trade Tales, host Kaitlin Petersen helps a designer navigate the challenging and often taboo topic of business slowdowns—what to do when referrals run dry, inquiries drop, and it’s suddenly time to hustle for new clients. Special guest DuVäl Reynolds, known for his methodical systems and strategic brand building, joins Kaitlin to offer candid, actionable advice on finding new work, refining messaging, and using slow periods to strengthen your firm both financially and creatively.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Moment When the Pipeline Runs Dry

[00:53–03:18]

• A designer (question asker) shares that after 10 years of steady, referral-based work, her client pipeline has suddenly stopped.
  • Used to 4–5 projects per year; never had to proactively sell herself.
  • “I have no idea how to sell myself. I always came from the school of, you should act like you have a waiting list...” [01:45, Designer]
• She’s unsure whether she should invest in a business coach, a publicist, or social media—struggling to clarify her endgame and brand identity.
• Los Angeles’ saturated market makes her question what truly sets her firm apart.

DuVäl Reynolds: Building Resilience with Systems

[05:36–08:04]

• DuVäl’s firm relies heavily on systems, particularly Asana, for project management.
  • “With systems, you are able to take your eye off all the balls and the things you have to do...So their customer experience is so much better.” [06:11, DuVäl]
• The systems allow for adaptability during market changes (e.g., Covid, supply chain issues, tariffs):
  • “Our business is scripted out from the start...all the way down through gift giving.” [07:03, DuVäl]
  • Processes adjust in real time (e.g., vendor follow-ups more frequently during supply delays).

Strategic Evolution: From Small Jobs to Big Projects

[08:08–10:08]

• Growth in scope: The firm moved from individual rooms to full houses and product collections.
  • Proactively shifted website and Instagram messaging to match ambition—talking about where they’re headed, not just current projects.
  • “As the brand kept growing, I kept changing how I showed up to talk about what I wanted versus just what we are doing.” [09:04, DuVäl]
• Capitalized on visibility, partnerships, and documenting new types of work to attract desired clients.

Tackling Slowdowns: Recognizing and Reacting

[12:37–14:59]

• Slow periods are normal and inevitable—even after years of steady business.
  • Warning signs: Decline in inquiries, leads not converting.
  • “The first warning sign is when your inquiries go down...If I keep getting people interested, but no one is actually turning into a lead...maybe your messaging is off...” [13:28, DuVäl]
• To assess if it’s an industry-wide issue:
  • “When the industry is busy, everybody’s too busy to do anything with you. When everybody wants to do something with you...that’s a sign to say, hey, okay, something’s up.” [14:38, DuVäl]

Honing Messaging and Brand Alignment

[15:34–16:49]

• If client fit is off, consult trusted friends/colleagues to interpret your brand messaging honestly.
• “Ask someone you trust...what does my messaging say to you? What does this sound like?...Take the honest feedback.” [15:43, DuVäl]
• Adjust language to speak precisely to your desired clientele.
  • Misalignment (e.g., discussing DIY while seeking high-end clients) creates mixed signals.

Doubling Down: Hustling for New Work

[18:07–21:19]

• In industry-wide downturns, intense outreach is key.
  • “You need to be doing five to ten [outreach attempts] a day...That’s what I—we—do.” [18:50, DuVäl]
• Methods:
  • Cold outreach (email, Instagram DMs) to contractors, builders, developers, architects.
  • Language tip: Emphasize interests in new partnerships (“We're looking to expand in 2026...”); keep emails short and specific; include relevant portfolio work.
  • “I love a cold call, I love a cold reach out.” [19:03, DuVäl]
• Don’t be afraid to ask directly for what’s missing from your portfolio—specific requests can rally your network (e.g., seeking a condo project).

Overcoming the Fear of “Looking Desperate”

[23:47–24:17]

• DuVäl encourages designers to get past ego and shame associated with business lulls:
  • “I do wish that people would stop caring so much what other people think...There’s nothing wrong with asking for work.” [23:48, DuVäl]

Outreach Frequency and Consistency

[24:17–25:54]

• Increase outreach “when our leads are lower” or when monthly/profit goals aren’t met.
• Consistency is crucial: Always pursuing potential collaborations, even during busy periods, maintains pipeline health.

The Best Engines for Generating New Work

[26:04–27:07]

• #1: Referrals and repeat clients.
• #2: Networking (long-term payoff).
• #3: Cold calling/ emailing still “works.”

Weighing Investment in Coaching and PR

[27:39–28:37]

• Both business coaching and PR have value if affordable:
  • “A lot of [coaching] is just unlocking a mindset...if you can afford it...absolutely worth investing in.” [27:39, DuVäl]
• Reynolds notes his own growth occurred without a PR team or business coach, but recommends both for those who can make it work.

Quick Fixes for Short-Term Cashflow

[28:53–31:22]

• Large upfront deposits from quickly-onboarded clients.
• Offering virtual design packages or expert consultations (“Now my schedule is open for this—are you interested?”).
• Leverage slowdowns to launch accessible, lower-commitment offerings.

Using Slow Times to Build for the Future

[31:32–32:18]

• Slow periods are best used to streamline and systematize the business:
  • “If you can streamline your business and make it more efficient, you make more money.” [31:37, DuVäl]
  • Assess bottlenecks, outsource wherever possible, optimize workflows for better margins long-term.

Community & Learning from Others

[32:18–33:03]

• Hearing directly from other designers is invaluable—
  • “...having a designer answer a designer and hearing within the industry...It’s so important for us to hear from other people, to see that we’re not alone, that the struggles that anyone is facing, most of us are facing at some point.” [32:32, DuVäl]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I have no idea how to sell myself. I always came from the school of, you should act like you have a waiting list, right?”
  —Anonymous Designer [01:45]

• “With systems, you are able to take your eye off all the balls...It gives you the opportunity to delegate...”
  —DuVäl Reynolds [06:11]

• “As the brand kept growing, I kept changing how I showed up to talk about what I wanted versus just what we are doing.”
  —DuVäl Reynolds [09:04]

• “The first warning sign is when your inquiries go down...if I keep getting people interested, but no one is actually turning into a lead...maybe your messaging is off.”
  —DuVäl Reynolds [13:28]

• “You need to be doing five to ten [outreach attempts] a day...That’s what I—we—do.”
  —DuVäl Reynolds [18:50]

• “I love a cold call, I love a cold reach out.”
  —DuVäl Reynolds [19:03]

• “I do wish that people would stop caring so much what other people think...There’s nothing wrong with asking for work.”
  —DuVäl Reynolds [23:48]

• “If you can streamline your business and make it more efficient, you make more money.”
  —DuVäl Reynolds [31:37]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:53–03:18] — Anonymous designer describes experiencing a drought in project referrals.
• [05:36–08:04] — DuVäl describes how systems support business during ups and downs.
• [09:04–10:08] — Shifting public messaging to shape the firm’s evolution.
• [12:37–14:59] — Recognizing business slowdowns and how to diagnose the cause.
• [15:34–16:49] — Testing your messaging with trusted contacts.
• [18:07–21:19] — Doubling down on active outreach during industry slumps.
• [23:47–24:17] — The taboo about looking desperate and letting go of ego.
• [26:04–27:07] — Best sources of new business: referrals, networking, cold calling.
• [28:53–31:22] — Quick-turn revenue streams during lean times.
• [31:32–32:18] — Using slow periods to build systems and efficiency.
• [32:32–33:03] — The value of designers learning from each other.

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Summary Takeaways

• Slow periods are universal—don’t stigmatize or internalize them.
• Proactive outreach (email, DMs, calls) is essential, especially during downturns; volume matters.
• Consistently refine your messaging and ensure it matches your desired client base.
• Utilize slowdowns to build better systems—efficiency pays off in the long run.
• Seek out honest feedback and peer dialogue.
• There’s no shame in asking for work; honest, transparent effort is respected and effective.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything where we're tapping your favorite Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. Some weeks we'll be workshopping a crisis. In others, we'll take a step back to talk about the big picture. Things like embracing change, hiring, or how to level up. No question is out of bound, no question is too large or too small. And we're keeping it confidential so that this is always a safe space to air your frustrations and share your fears. This week, we're hearing from a designer whose pipeline has suddenly run dry.

[B]

When I started my business probably a little bit over 10 years ago, I just got very lucky. I built a business based on referrals that really, up until about six to eight months ago, was just constant. I was never without my next job. And all of a sudden, I found myself without my next job.

[A]

For the first time, this designer is looking for proactive ways to bring in new work. As she looks at her options, she isn't quite sure where to start.

[B]

Had a couple of, hey, will you help me freshen up here and there. But it wasn't the job that I.

[C]

Was looking for before this lull, this moment. What was a comfortable project load for you?

[B]

Four to five projects a year.

[C]

So you feel it really noticeably when that starts to slow down?

[B]

Yes. And, you know, some of those were just redoing every bathroom. They weren't all of them, you know, head to toe renovations. I was like, wow, okay, now I need to sell myself. I have no idea how to sell myself. I always came from the school of, you should act like you have a waiting list, right. That you're, you know, needing clients. Every time I would think about, okay, so I need to make an investment somewhere. Is that a business coach? Is that a publicist? Where I would get sort of I made is okay. In order to do that, I need to really understand what my end game is. My end game just to have more projects. Am I looking to build a brand? There's now so many people in Los Angeles, particularly. I mean, you cannot sneeze without, you know, infecting another designer. You know, it's just become so oversaturated. And every time I would try to define who I am, how I set myself apart, I just felt like I began to sound like everybody else, and I hated that. I'm struggling with, how do you I Now, after 10 years without, you know, the infrastructure that I did not build in terms of you know, a business coach or a publicist or really somebody who understood social media. What is my next move and how do I do that without sounding desperate.

[A]

Our question asker knows that she needs to clarify her vision in order to create a solid foundation for her firm, to define what makes her firm special in order to effectively attract the right projects. But that kind of clarity takes time and she also just needs the work. Now there's also that word she desperate. In an industry that can often reward keeping up appearances, what does it mean for a firm to publicly acknowledge that business is slow and are there any alternatives? As we ended our call, I knew just who to connect with. Someone who has experienced a slowdown or two of his own and developed time tested strategies to kickstart his pipeline. All that and more in just a moment. The most forward thinking designers I know have one thing in common. It's a relentless pursuit of what's next, whether that's new product or new ways that fit thinking about their business. That same spirit of innovation is also true of Four Hands, which consistently meets the moment with pieces that truly matter. The brand's latest line is no exception. With more than 500 new arrivals across living room, dining room, bedroom, office, bath and outdoor categories, these launches reimagine classic forms within a contemporary context and feature thoughtful, unexpected details that your clients will fall for instantly. Even better, all that great design is just the beginning. When you shop with four hands, you automatically unlock wholesale pricing with no order minimums and deeper discounts the more you spend. Explore the benefits of shopping with four hands for your next project at fourhands.com/trade tales today I'm joined by Duval Reynolds.

[C]

As a guest on Trade Tales.

[A]

He shared how he took note of the clients he worked with the best, and then used that information to inform how he marketed himself and his firm. He's also a systems guy and I wondered if he had a system for pipeline problems too. I thought he'd be the perfect person to answer today's question.

[C]

Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Trade Tales listeners. Heard from you back in 2022.

[D]

So long.

[C]

Has anything happened since then? How you doing?

[D]

Nothing. We've been the same ever since. Caitlyn.

[C]

Well, I mean at the time you told me about how you had built strong systems as a real foundation for your firm. I would imagine that those have been very helpful in supporting your work amid so many of the industry's ups and downs these last few years.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

How has that provided the support that you needed in a challenging climate I.

[D]

Mean, man, with systems, you are able to take your eye off all the balls and the. The things that you have to do. And so it gives you the opportunity to delegate. It gives you an opportunity to have very clean processes and methods and lanes for the client to go in. So their customer experience is so much better. Systems just really frame the way that the business can be run very efficiently in an organized manner and just, honestly, just mentally helps all the way throughout.

[C]

Is there something that you've implemented that especially, you know, amid back in 2022? I mean, first there was no stuff, then stuff was expensive, then there were tariffs, there were always delays, you know, like all of these different layers of complexity. Is there something you had put in place before all of that that you've looked at often and been like, thank goodness we had that set up?

[D]

Yeah, I think Asana, like, we use Asana as like our bible. And so our business is scripted out from the start of the business all the way down through gift giving. And so in that anytime that things were changing and happening real time, like, you know, Covid and delays and reselections, we just started adding that to our systems. And so, you know, everything is scripted out. So you have step by step, every part of our business.

[A]

And.

[D]

And so when something got changed, much like, okay, now we need to. Instead of waiting two or three months to follow up with the vendor after we place the order, now it needs to be a little bit sooner and a little bit more often. And instead of touching base right every. Every once in a month, now is every two weeks, because things can change. And even with the, you know, the tariffs that's happening now and the changes and all of that, because there's always a part of your system where you're kind or always a part of the project where you're talking about the same thing over and over, like, oh, the tariffs are now, and blah, blah, blah. You can just kind of plug and play that in. And once the tariffs are no longer an issue, we can just kind of take that out of our system and it's no longer something that we have to repeat.

[C]

What else has been going on these last three years, Caitlin?

[D]

Oh, my gosh. It's just so much. Obviously the company has grown and not necessarily in size, but, you know, the projects that we're taking on, where they used to be, like, I don't know, maybe back at that time, like a couple rooms or Florida time, and then you might have like one house for designing, but now it feels like we have multiple houses ground up that you're designing. And we, of course, are doing furnishings for the houses as well. We're moving into collections. Of course, visibility has been good, so it's a lot.

[C]

You and I have talked about how that evolution from, you know, like, rooms to focusing more on bigger project is something you've really wanted.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Was that a result of a specific effort, or is that really just a natural evolution of how a firm unfolds?

[D]

Do you think it very well could be a natural evolution for some firms? I think I went in a little bit more strategically. I can't really qualify what we did as what made the changes. Right. Like, you never know.

[A]

Right.

[D]

But I was very adamant to show up in media differently. Meaning, you know, when you're first starting out, you're advertising. Oh, I can do paint selections and I can do, you know, kitchen designs and whatever. You know, the next thing you're talking about is like, oh, we do full room renovations and we do. Or, excuse me, full room refurnishings or whatever. And then you start talking about renovations. And yes, as the brand kept growing, I kept changing how I showed up to talk about what I wanted versus just what we are doing. I talked about where we were headed. And, you know, and so the first project that we got when we started doing new builds, made sure to document that to let clients know that this is what we do and this is what we're looking for. We want to work with clients who want to do this. And then it became, you know, of course, like, major renovations. And we started partnering with architects, and now we're working on projects exactly where we want to be. And so we changed the language on our Instagram. We changed the language on our website. Anytime someone talks to us, when we talk to a builder, contractor, or another designer, kind of talk about where we're headed. And I think that has honestly played a huge part of the growth.

[C]

What are you excited about when you.

[A]

Walk into work these days?

[D]

I think a lot of things I think, obviously, I'm really excited about. I think our team is getting a really good flow on what they're working on. And so I think that I'm really excited to see them take control. And I feel like a lot of our team members have autonomy now to make decisions for me, which has been super helpful. And I think the reason why I need that right now is so we have a couple collections coming out, which I think is also what makes me super excited coming into work. A little stressed out, but that's amazing. Yeah, no, I guess since we've talked in 2022. That was one of the things that we had been working on. We had been working on a collection with Cheryl Furniture Brands. And so we. It got announced this past fall market that we're going to be their next collection. Yeah, Their designer collection.

[C]

And that's coming out at market in April, Right?

[D]

I know, in April. This is crazy. So we will have our first debut. I think they were paring it down now to 25 to 30 pieces where we had a lot more, but I think we're going to reserve a few. So that's been super exciting coming into the office. And then we're also working on expanding the collection that we have with Paul Montgomery, which is your fine wall coverings, luxury wall coverings. So we have two papers out right now, and I think we're producing, I think another six that will come out and debut in the fall.

[C]

Moving into product has always been really important for you. I feel like I've heard you talk about that for a long time.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

What do these launches represent for you?

[D]

At the beginning, I didn't really care what other people thought. That wasn't my intention. Like, let's say, for one, the furniture, when we were approached, we had kind of said no to them for several years because I just didn't think. I honestly didn't think they were serious. But then as we were developing it, it was really something like, oh, man, this is what I'd like to see. It's furniture that I couldn't find. And then the more that we worked on it, I'm like, oh, wait, other people are probably also going to want these pieces. And it's not just something that I think it's just, you know, for me, I think it's just in our industry, we're kind of missing an aesthetic that I hope that this, the others see, is what we're trying to bring.

[C]

Well, I've got a big question for you.

[A]

Are you ready to give some advice?

[D]

Yes. I think I always give too much advice, Caitlin. That's my problem.

[C]

No, no, I'm really excited about it. This week we are fielding a question from a designer who is experiencing a lull in inquiries for the first time, and she is looking for a new. To drum up new business without seeming.

[A]

In her words, desperate.

[C]

Can you tell me first? I mean, you know, I want to normalize that this slow period is something that happens to most firms.

[D]

Oh, yes.

[C]

Multiple times throughout their life cycle. Can you talk about what that looks like for you a little bit and how you Respond initially when you start to get the sense that things are sort of cooling off.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, this is a great question, and I think it's a great topic because I think a lot of people deal with this and don't want to talk about it. And for us, I actually didn't deal with this for the first five years of my business. Like, it was just. It took off and we were just busy, which was amazing. But when it hit, it hit hard. And when it hit, it was just so unexpected. So I definitely know what that feels like to be like, wait a second. And then, funny enough, since then we have had different periods where it just slows down, it comes back. And, you know, of course everyone talks about it being feast or famine, so it definitely is common to the industry. And I think if some people who haven't hit it, it's very likely that they will at some point. I think the first warning sign is when your inquiries go down. You know, hopefully most people who are listening to this, you have your questionnaire or you have some intake form, and when that starts to slow, I think that's a great indicator for one to see whether or not the business itself is going to slow. Because obviously leads are where we make money. It also is, let's say you are getting leads, but the leads are not, you know, they're not converting. So that's another way to just say, okay, hey, all of a sudden something's off. If I keep getting people interested, but no one is actually turning into a lead. That could easily, easily be the fact that maybe your. The messaging is off or the way that people are finding you isn't really your, you know, the lead type that you want. That would be where I would start.

[C]

I love what you just said about, you know, maybe your messaging is off, maybe you're not connecting with the right client. How do you know when it's a you problem, vers industry problem, or, you know, an economic downturn problem? Where do you start looking to figure out sort of what to assign the blame to?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. When you know it's an industry problem is when the industry is talking, meaning other designers are saying the same thing. If contractors are reaching out to you, telling you that they need projects, architects are really. Yeah, People are starting to reach out to say, hey, let's have a lunch and let's do this. When the industry is busy, everybody's too busy to do anything with you. When everybody wants to do something with you.

[C]

I think that's also when everyone wants to get lunch.

[D]

Exactly. That's a sign to say, hey, okay, something's up. Now, that doesn't mean that the people who are always reaching out are just looking for work. Some people are building their networks and just trying to establish relationships. But I think that's a good indicator. So when it's the industry, the industry itself will speak and it will tell you that something's off. When it's just you, I think definitely for the people who are getting inquiries and it's just not converting to a lead, I would say watch what you're saying. If you're wanting a luxury project, but you're always talking about DIY and how a client can get it for cheaper, then your messaging is clearly saying something different. So I think that would be a you problem.

[C]

If it is a flaw sort of in the business or in the messaging, where do you start to sort of refine that language?

[D]

I think it's so basic, but I would say just ask a friend, ask a colleague, ask someone you trust who you think is competent to comprehend what you're saying and then repeat back to you, what does my messaging say to you? What does this sound like? And then take the honest feedback. If someone is you want can be honest with you to say, hey, what you're saying doesn't really look like your work. Or maybe you're saying you do these great things, but your work doesn't really show high end quality or custom, then take that as feedback and then change the messaging accordingly. Think about your ideal client and is the messaging that you're putting out reaching your ideal client? So if somebody that you like, high end executive, et cetera, but you're talking about things that is DIY and they need to spend a lot of time to do this and work with you and you're exhausting them, but they're a person who's too busy and doesn't have the time to do it. That also is a mixed signal. And so I think, well, if you think about your ideal client and what would speak to them directly, I think that can help you adjust your messaging for sure.

[A]

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[C]

Industry wide issue, or, you know, when the economy is just in flux and everyone sort of tightens their belt, inquiries stop coming in. What's your game plan in moments like.

[D]

That, man, when it's the industry is down, I double down. I double down more than people probably realize. I had talked to a designer once and she had said something to me. I think we were talking about just like getting leads and she was just like, oh yeah, like we're reaching out to contractor. And she said, I think she said something like, I think, you know, we're going to do maybe like two or three a week and see what they say. And my response to her was like, you need to be doing five to ten a day. What do you mean? Like five to ten people a day? You need to be reaching out to. That's what I. We do. It's exactly what we do. And I do it in a number of ways. I either would do it myself, I will either have one of my team members do it and. Or I will hire a virtual assistant and you have them start forming leads for you and you have them start reaching out to you. I literally just got an email maybe two days ago. Some random contractor reached out to me and I was like, man, I thought that was really cool because I love a cold call, I love a cold reach out.

[C]

Said, no one ever, I love you.

[D]

Yeah, I thought it was so cool. I was like, dude, I really appreciate you reaching out and just being like, hey, we're looking for work. I thought that was so respectful, respectable, because I think, you know, he was being honest and so transparent and that's who I would want to work with. And funny enough, I call him and I'm like, hey, let's set up a meeting, whatever, whatever. And I talked to him and he was just like, he told me that the way that he reached out was a bot. He was like, we hired this bot. They reached out to all these design firms. And you were one of the ones he reached out to. And I was like, dang. I didn't even know that they were. But it was such a casual email. I thought it was really cool. But there's so many ways to just be gritty and then just go for the work. And I think some people feel like it's either beneath them or they don't think that it's a good idea. But I'm definitely a person when it comes down to the hustle. I will reach out to as many people as I possibly can to get whatever work I need and whatever work I can get.

[C]

Who are you emailing and what does that email say?

[D]

Sure. So I'm a residential interior designer. So we reach out specifically to residential contractors, residential builders, developers, and architects. And it literally is the simplest of each emails. I may say something like, hey, I'm a local interior designer based in, you know, Fairfax, Virginia. And it'll be a couple of things. And because you had mentioned the term desperate, if you don't want to look desperate, let me start with that. If you don't want to look desperate, you can. Especially now that we're into the new year, you can say something like, I'm an interior designer in the local area. We're looking to expand in 2026. Looking to create new partnerships with contractors and builders. I saw your work. I love it. I would love to have some time to have a conversation. That's it. I'd say don't do too much. Maybe, you know, include your portfolio or some work that you may feel like is specific to what they have produced so that you can show that they are someone compatible with you. But I wouldn't overdo it. No one has enough time to be reading long, complicated emails. Do the same thing you would want. You would probably want something short, simple, and sweet. Get to the point, give me some numbers, call it a day. And so we do that both in email and on Instagram. I've definitely built relationships in Instagram. I will DM somebody with a quickness and just say, hey, I love your work, love what you're doing. I love this project. Would love to consider a collaboration or a possible partnership. Please let me know how we can make this work and keep moving.

[C]

How did those relationships unfold and what kind of response should you expect?

[A]

Right.

[C]

Like, not every single one is going to land and you have to be okay with that. I feel like, yeah, I think so.

[D]

And I want to be very transparent, too, because I think when we were younger, as A business, and I didn't have the portfolio. I think it's a different language now than with maybe where we stand today. I am obviously not an L L A lister. I'm not AD100. I'm very aware that where I stand in the market. But we have a decent portfolio that I think some of the contractors are trying to be a part of our projects at this point. Right. Like, and I think some of them understand that we are getting featured, and they love to ride that as well. So my conversation is different now. And it's very easy to have a conversation. If I go back a couple years and say, hey, what did that look like? It was a little bit. A little bit of a process. You know, we shoot out that first Instagram message, ask them, you know, what we can do. They may say a thing or two, or it might be, hey, I gotta follow up two more times to say, hey, hope you are doing well. Wanted to follow up on this message. So that may be really what it looks like. But then from there, I definitely have had phone calls. I've definitely created portfolio decks for people to see. I've created presentations to show what my pricing would look like and how I manage projects. And I've also taken people to lunch, so I think it can look different. And I did whatever it took to land the work that I wanted with the people I wanted to partner with. So the other thing that we did, for those who have followed us on Instagram, like, I had been asking for a condo because in our portfolio we only have, like, larger homes, and it wasn't anything by design. It just kind of always happens. That's all the things that we're photographing. And I kept getting online and being like, hey, I want a condo in our portfolio. And I think that was a way, inadvertently, I wasn't thinking that I looked desperate. So I don't think I really looked desperate in that regard because I was looking for something specific that our portfolio just did not have. Like, I just don't have a condo. And so we had been looking for, and thankfully, we actually have one now. But I felt like that was a way to get the community involved, the people who are, you know, wanting to help us in some kind of way, they were reaching out, saying, hey, I have a friend, or, hey, would you try this? Or, hey, would you do it for this size or this scale? So I think that's another way, if you didn't want to look desperate to get work, maybe talk about what you don't have in the portfolio to get so it doesn't look like you have nothing.

[A]

Right.

[D]

I do wish that people would stop caring so much what other people think. I would love that people stop caring that that they are looking a certain way. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for work. I just don't see anything wrong with that. I don't see anything wrong with asking other designers, hey, my pipeline is low. Do you have any projects you can shoot our way? Asking a contractor, hey, I'd like to partner up, looking to get some things to fill my schedule, but I definitely feel like people's egos just get in the way, and so it's hard for them to just be honest.

[C]

When you said that, you know, you're sending like, five or ten of these messages a day, is that all the time? Is that just when things are slow? When do you sort of kick that into high gear?

[D]

I kick it into high gear, of course, when we start seeing that our leads are lower. Right when we start, like, noticing that we're not getting a lot in. I also kick it into gear when I'm watching my numbers because I'm pretty good about, you know, how much are we going to make this month? Are we hitting our sales goal as well as our profit goals for the month? What about next month? Do we have anything in the pipeline that's going to hit that I can be sure that it's going to close or just, like, capacity of, like, it looks like our team can manage more than we go into high gear, But I will say I'm pretty consistent. Always hitting somebody up, like, all the time. If I see a contractor's work that I just like, I'm hitting them up just in case. If I see an architect where I'm just like, man, like, your stuff is really good and they're local, I will hit them up just in case. An interior designer, if I find someone in our area where they're doing bigger projects than me, yes, I will hit them up. Hey, just a heads up. We have a small firm in Fairfax. We would love to be a reliable source for your team to take any projects that you guys aren't able to manage. Would love to meet you guys, maybe do a lunch and learn, show you what we can do, show you how we manage your project or manage our projects and hopefully be a great referral for you or resource for you. I have definitely had bigger designers send projects my way. I've actually had smaller designers send things that they couldn't manage our way.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

And then we would take up for sure. So I am constantly, constantly marketing that way.

[C]

When you look back on some of those slow periods, what has been the best kind of engine for ultimately getting new work coming in?

[D]

I don't know. You know, obviously I think the easy answer is referrals. Right. That's the easiest quickest go to because most of our projects are referrals. That's just by default. It's referrals. It's repeat business as well. It's the clients who did one part of the house or they're going to the next part of the house. Now they were in the industry for eight years and we're now having clients for doing their second homes, which is again, such a blessing, obviously. But I'd say outside of that, probably networking. Networking has. And of course that also isn't a quick, you know, it's not a quick cash grab. But because we've networked so much, I think so many people know us that we've had people just shoot projects our way. I mean organizations to just referrals or. Yeah, I've had other designers just be like, hey, I think Duvall's a better fit for you guys than our team. And the same with us, like we're shooting out referrals because I just, I'm not designing mid century modern furniture. So I need someone else to take that for this client for, to service them better. So I'd say networking, but man, the cold calling, cold emailing. It still works. It still works.

[C]

One of the things this question asker was sort of mulling was, you know, if, you know, she's hit this slow period and therefore needs to hire a business coach or get a publicist, you know, she was looking at kind of bigger expenditures as a potential fix. Yeah, you know, she's Also at that 10 year mark, a 10 year mark in her business where this is sort of the first time she's felt a lull. What do you think of those costs, those services and how they can help in the short term or long term?

[D]

Yeah, it's so, it's so crazy because I absolutely believe in business coaches and I love publicists and PR teams. So like I do business coaching and I have definitely worked with the designers and, and just kind of like unlocking mindsets. A lot of that's what that is, just unlocking a mindset and, and also the scarcity mindset of being nervous that you will always stay in and kind of emitting that. So business coaches I think are great and if you can afford it and it's something you can carry, your company can carry. Yeah, I think they're absolutely worth investing in. The same with PR teams. The crazy part is while I advocate for both, I both don't have a business coach and I've never hired a PR team. And so while I love them, I think they're amazing. I have interviewed several for our own firm and they were kind of all like, hey, you don't need us right now. So I've never had the experience of it, but I know of other people who absolutely vouch for them. But for us, I think we've done well and I haven't had a PR team, so I can say that too.

[C]

You mentioned that idea of like, you know, networking is not a quick cash grab. Is there something you do to sort of immediately bring in cash? Is there a quick shortcut while you start to do sort of those long lead time exercises?

[D]

That's a great question. I mean, the first is onboarding a client. If you onboard a client quickly, you can take a larger deposit upfront to put cash in your pocket. Obviously it's going to be numbers that you work against. Right. So I think that's one. We just recently just brought on a couple of clients all at once because we needed to hit our numbers for November. It wasn't like we weren't going to take the clients anyway. We were. And then the other one is that we do. We will, let's say if it gets slow, in a couple months, we will open up virtual designs where I typically don't do that now. For us, we used to be like $1,500 per room. We're now at $7,500 per room. So it isn't like a small number. I think it's pretty decent. So that is something that we do also. Expert consultations. We will offer expert consultations. I think that's $1,500 for two hours. We'll open that on our site with little notation saying book an expert consultation. Especially when we're like, our numbers are low. And so that's a quick, easy thing. The real deal is that we are not managing a lot of major projects. Now. My schedule is open for this. Are you guys interested? And actually clients will jump on that for sure. Yeah, yeah. And especially clients who follow you and see that you're working on bigger projects. They see you doing things and they are interested and then you let them know that they have the opportunity at a much lower capacity. I think that's an interesting take for them. Yeah, I Wish that we kind of just normalize the fact that in business, you have to make the sale, you have to go for the lead, you have to generate work. That's what business is. And I feel like sometimes we can get in these spaces where clients are just pouring in, and we think that's the standard, and that actually isn't the standard. It's the farming for the leads. And I've heard so many podcasts and so many bigger designers, 8100. And all these people, and they say the same thing. They're like, it doesn't change. You're still trying to get the next project. And I think if people just realize, like, that's a part of the business, I think it takes off the weight of, I'm doing something wrong or it's just my firm or what should I. Why are they getting it? I'm not getting it. But I also think that a lot of the designers that are out there who are looking successful are hustling probably a lot more than you think. Right. Like, they are putting in the work, they're putting in the time, they're doing what they don't want to do to get those leads. So I just wish that we would normalize the conversation and actually be okay. That sometimes it's slow and it is what it is.

[C]

Is there other stuff during a slow period that you're turning your attention to that maybe you don't have time for when clients are pouring in?

[D]

Yes.

[C]

How do you use that sort of dip to have a stronger business in the long run?

[D]

Oh, yeah. One of the things that I am crazy about in our firm is efficiency. We've seen that if you can streamline your business and make it more efficient, you make more money. And I think a lot of the times that designers are making good money, but a lot of time is spent on things that they just shouldn't be working on, things that you shouldn't be doing, or you're dragging things out that could have been done quicker in a more efficient way, or you could have spent some dollars and saved more dollars by doing it right. And so I think that looking at your business, seeing where your bottlenecking is, seeing where you're able to outsource where you thought you couldn't, I'd say cleaning that up will save you money in the long run. And when you're slow, you should absolutely be focusing on that.

[C]

I have one more question for you. What is the best piece of advice you've ever received?

[D]

Have you heard of Trade tales?

[C]

Oh, my God advice buttering me up at the end of the show.

[D]

Best advice ever. I think even just like these things like this, having a designer answer a designer and hearing within the industry, I think it's so helpful. I think it's so, it's so important for us to hear from other people, to see that we're not alone, that the struggles that anyone is facing, most of us are facing at some point. And so yeah, that's my advice and that's the advice that I give is have you heard of Tray Tales?

[A]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and and for everyone listening with a question of your own, I'd love for you to ask us anything. Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous. Please start the conversation by sending me an [e-mail] if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. And if you're looking for even more great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Caitlin Lynn Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you here next.