Ask Us Anything: Erin Gates on clients who disrupt the design process

Summary

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Trade Tales: “Ask Us Anything: Erin Gates on Clients Who Disrupt the Design Process”

Host: Kaitlin Petersen (Business of Home)
Guest: Erin Gates (Interior Designer, Author)
Date: December 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Trade Tales zeroes in on a challenge every interior designer faces: what to do when a previously absent client suddenly steps in late in the project, upending months of planning and creative energy. Host Kaitlin Petersen welcomes acclaimed designer Erin Gates to reflect on these scenarios, offering practical advice on safeguarding your design process, keeping morale high, and handling contract nuances and client relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Disruptive Client Scenario (00:04 – 03:32)

• Kaitlin shares a real-life design dilemma submitted by a listener: With the design almost finalized, an uninvolved client’s spouse arrives with strong opinions, causing upheaval. The team must pivot, risking budget and morale.
• The design contract required all stakeholders’ participation, but enforcing this proved challenging.

Quote:

“Felt like he threw a grenade in the middle of the project. And I was like, what just happened?”
— Question Asker (01:33)

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2. Introducing Erin Gates (05:11 – 07:17)

• Erin is welcomed as someone who’s not only built creative authority but also knows how to protect her firm and set boundaries with clients.
• Erin discusses her whirlwind years—publishing a book, running her business, and family life.

Quote:

“I want to do better, but do less.”
— Erin Gates (07:22)

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3. Trends in Home and Client Demands Post-Pandemic (08:28 – 12:37)

• Erin’s new book centers on creating “forever” homes, a reaction to a culture of flipping and a newfound post-pandemic appreciation for home.
• Clients are more emotionally and financially invested, leading to increased “hand holding,” more questions about quality, timelines, and procurement.

Quote:

“I think everybody is kind of valuing their homes a little bit more these days. And this is kind of an exploration of... how we help people create these spaces that they want to stay in.”
— Erin Gates (09:35)

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4. Team Structure & Specialization (11:57 – 12:37)

• Erin shares her business structure: a dedicated design team and a separate procurement team. This helps clients get prompt, specialized responses and streamlines processes.

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5. The Importance of Blogging & Community (14:14 – 15:28)

• Erin values the depth and community of long-form blogging, which she sees as vital for both personal connection and professional development, especially compared to the fleeting nature of social media.

Quote:

“It helped create a real sense of community amongst people who followed me... it really helped my quality of life having this community to bounce ideas off of.”
— Erin Gates (15:07)

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Erin Gates’ Advice on Handling Disruptive Clients

6. Is This Scenario Familiar? (15:36 – 18:10)

• Erin confirms it’s a common problem and praises the caller for requiring all stakeholders at meetings—even if that’s unenforceable in reality.
• She says, ultimately: “Money talks.”

Quote:

“This is why I never flat fee anything.”
— Erin Gates (17:55)

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7. Spotting Trouble Early & Contract Strategies (18:12 – 20:08)

• Usually, spouses with strong opinions show their hand early. Some responsibility falls on the participating partner to loop the other in.
• Erin’s advice: Avoid flat fees, or be restrictively clear about their scope; otherwise, ensure hourly billing for rework.

Quote:

“All I can say is money talks... going back and redoing all of this is going to cost you a lot of money.”
— Erin Gates (17:55)

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8. Establishing Paper Trails & Communication (20:08 – 22:15)

• Always copy both spouses (or all stakeholders) on correspondence.
• Documented communication is not just best-practice—it's critical when disputes arise.

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9. Client Onboarding & Assessing Stakeholders (22:16 – 25:09)

• Erin treats onboarding as a two-way interview to surface potential red flags.
• Ask directly about who will be involved and their opinion patterns. Set expectations on budget, timeline, and decision-making styles.

Quote:

“Setting expectations at the beginning... is the most valuable part. And that is trust.”
— Erin Gates (24:02)

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10. Ongoing Check-Ins (25:09 – 28:08)

• Check in with the “involved” spouse if the other partner is absent. Sometimes, the absence is benign; other times, it’s worth investigating further to avoid surprises.

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11. Direct Communication & Boundaries (28:08 – 30:35)

• If disrupted, Erin recommends being direct: explain the impact on the timeline and budget, and require the disruptor to be present henceforth or to sign off on decisions.
• If disruption persists, consider ending the client relationship.

Quote:

“If you're fine with that [paying more for a redesign], I guess I'm fine with that.”
— Erin Gates (28:19)
“Trust goes both ways... it’s very hard to say no. But occasionally you get those jobs where you get to the point where you say, I don’t think this is a good fit anymore.”
— Erin Gates (29:35)

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12. Rebuilding Morale After a Creative Blow (30:35 – 33:07)

• Gather all parties for a frank, solutions-oriented meeting.
• There’s one chance to get back on track; repeated disruptions are a sign to end the relationship to preserve team morale and creative energy.

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13. Contract Language & Expectations (33:07 – 34:58)

• Walk clients through contracts and expectations, including attendance for key meetings.
• Even children’s input may be included for family projects.

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Notable Quotes

• “You can’t strong arm people into meetings... So while you can put it in your contract, that's not how the real world works.”
  — Erin Gates (17:17)

• “We really get invested... so when this happens, it's pretty devastating. But you have to just look at it as an opportunity to earn more hourly billable hours.”
  — Erin Gates (19:35)

• “Sometimes you have to cut your losses... and move on to a different opportunity and let them find a different designer.”
  — Erin Gates (32:43)

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Closing: Best Career Advice from Erin Gates (35:09 – 36:04)

Quote:

“Just go out and try. Because you don't want to look back on your life and say, shoot, I should have tried that, even though it was scary.”
— Erin Gates (35:16)

Erin attributes her drive and courage to pursue design and run her own business to this advice from her late father.

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Key Takeaways

• Contracts help—but don’t guarantee compliance. Use them to set expectations, but stay flexible and pragmatic.
• Hourly billing protects you from costly disruptions. Clearly define the scope in any flat fee arrangement.
• Assess all stakeholders early, and check in often. Direct questions and ongoing transparency help prevent late-stage upheaval.
• Paper trails are your friend. Copy everyone, document decisions.
• Morale matters. A single disruption can be salvaged with openness and communication; repeated disruptions are grounds to walk away.
• Direct communication saves time and energy. Be candid about costs, timelines, and what will or won’t be redone.
• Creative and professional self-care is crucial. Sometimes, the best decision is to let go and move on to new, more compatible clients.

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For more practical advice and candid business stories, listen to Trade Tales from Business of Home.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything where we're tapping your favorite Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. Some weeks, we'll be workshopping a crisis. In others, we'll take a step back to talk about the big picture. Things like embracing change, hiring, or how to level up. No question is out of bounds. No question is too large or too small. And we're keeping it confidential so that this is always a safe space to air your frustrations and share your fears. This week, we're hearing from a designer who thought she had a great thing going with her client. But then, just as she was ready for sign off on that final design plan, the client's spouse decided to weigh in.

[B]

We were, I would say, three quarters of the way through the design process, and in our contract, it even says all stakeholders must be present for every meeting. But there's not really a way to hold people accountable to that. One half of this couple had just not been present, and the other half was acting with the authority to make all the decisions, and that's fine. But then the first half who had not been present just sort of walked in three quarters of the way through and was like, oh, no, I do not want it to be like this. I need something more like this. I want it to look like this. I don't like that color. Felt like he threw a grenade in the middle of the project. And I was like, what just happened?

[A]

The problem in this case wasn't the feedback itself, but the fact that it was delivered so late in the game.

[B]

And I was just, like, had whiplash. I was like, I don't know what just happened.

[C]

How did their spouse react to that?

[B]

They just sat there and just, like, let it happen. And even when we would try to sort of, like, provide the creative rationale for how we got to point Z, they just weren't interested and, like, totally bulldozing me during the conversation to where I just stopped trying to explain because, you know, it's the design process, right? So there's multiple options, and you continue to refine and then present new options. And we were three quarters of the way through.

[A]

How did you move on from that?

[B]

You know, we definitely, like, had to pivot, and thankfully, like, we're a pretty nimble team. And so we were able to kind of regroup and go back to some of the earlier things that we had presented, because that's what he was saying landed better for him. Not that he had ever seen them. But we were like okay. Thankfully at least we had already done X, Y and Z. So we were able to pull those previous iterations of the design to say well what about this? Does this feel better? And you know, it wasn't like a ton of work, we didn't have to go back to square one. But ultimately like that's what could have happened. And so it just got me thinking like we work on a flat fee basis, qualified by a number of meetings and a number of hours and you know, it just felt like if we had to go back and do additional meetings and additional design, that would've cost us a lot of time and probably led to an uncomfortable conversation about his non participation and likely could have ended up like losing the job if he was like, well I don't want to pay more because I didn't show up. But I was like how do you safeguard against this?

[A]

As our question asker shared this story, my heart sank. Situations like these aren't just an annoyance that disrupt your timelines, they're also soul crushing blows for any creative team. As we ended our call, I knew just who to connect with. A designer who had developed safeguards to protect her firm in case the design process doesn't go as planned. And also someone who isn't afraid to tell clients that going back to the drawing board will cost them all that and more in just a moment. Our question today is all about what to do when a client turns the entire design process upside down. Something that's bound to happen to all of us from time to time, no matter how carefully we dot our I's or cross our T's. We'll have all kinds of advice about what it takes to weather that storm in just a moment, but for now I want to tell you about Forehands, whose commitment to helping designers deliver exceptional results for their clients is built into the fiber of their business. Fourhands offers thousands of trend proof styles made with quality materials, packed and shipped with care and intention, and backed by a best in class claims process that helps designers make things right. When things do go wrong, there's nothing better than knowing that your vendors are in your corner. And that's a guarantee when you're working with four hands. Explore the benefits of shopping with four hands for your next project at fourhands.com tradetales today I'm joined by Erin Gates.

[C]

As a guest on Trade Tales.

[A]

She shared the story of finding her creative voice early in her design career and how she ultimately brought that same sense of agency and authority to her firm's operations. I thought she would be the perfect person to answer today's question.

[C]

Thank you so much for joining me today. Tradeales listeners, heard from you here back in 2022.

[A]

What have you been up to?

[C]

How have you been for the last couple years?

[D]

It's been a whirlwind. I think everyone probably says that. I'm sure. I don't think anyone probably says, oh, it's been super boring.

[A]

Right.

[C]

But nothing's happened.

[D]

Nothing's happened. That's why you asked me to come on this podcast. So, yeah, I've been writing my newest book and putting that to bed and getting that out in the world, which has been like climbing a mountain.

[C]

That does take about three years, doesn't it?

[D]

This one took four because it started during I signed the deal during the beginning of the pandemic when I had just given birth. So I had some stuff to overcome. I had just bought a new house and I had promised myself I would not write another book. And because it's so hard and so time consuming, and in this day and age of social media, not being able to share all your photography of your work is really, it's a big upset to your business model and how you market yourself. So I was like, nope, nope, not for me. I did too. I'm good. And then I bought a house and my editor was like, this house, your renovation. This is a book. This is a book. And then of course, I was like, well, I do like things in threes. I really don't like pairs. So why don't I just go ahead and say I'm going to do this? And then I was like, oh, right, yeah, I have to renovate a house and I have a baby and a business. So it took four years to write it and edit it and lay it out and put it out there. So that's been on top of raising kids and running a business with eight employees and doing some cool projects. Yeah. So a lot of ups and downs and busy and then scared because you're not so busy and then busy again the moment you freak out. Yeah.

[C]

Has that kind of seesaw evened out at all for you, or does it still feel really hot?

[A]

Really cold?

[D]

Luckily, we were pretty hot for a long time and there were only a couple little blips of slowness. It has evened out. It's not as, like, gangbusters crazy as it was during the pandemic. I think a lot of people are feeling uneasy and scared to spend a lot of money. So I think it has been consistently good, but not overwhelming, where I'm like, I need to hire eight more designers. Which for me makes me, I don't want to be in that position right now. I want to do better, but do less. So I'm getting more calls from builders being like, do you have anything for me? Which makes me a little nervous because I don't like it when that happens because that means that they're sensing a slowdown or they're feeling it already and that trickles back to us. So I think everybody, when I talk to designers, they're still busy. They're still pretty consistently busy. And we'll have to see. Maybe I'll start a dog walking company next year. Who knows?

[C]

I wanted to ask a little bit about the book. I know your home is sort of the centerpiece of the book, but what was the story you really wanted to tell with this third book? And how was it different from your approach to the first two?

[D]

The story I wanted to tell was focusing on making a long term home for yourself, whether that's seven years or 50 years. I think there's a lot in this marketplace that's about flipping about short term, you know, cut corner, DIY kind of approach to design. And then there's the like, extraordinary, no budget kind of aspiration, like, just totally crazy. And I think it's hard to find that middle ground of inspirational, aspirational, but also like, helpful, realistic approach to creating a home you want to stay in. It's nine homes, mine being the first one, and then eight projects that we did over the last five to eight years. And they're all different types. And in each chapter I talk about what our best takeaways were from the project, the lessons we learned, the best parts that we kind of discovered. It also talks a lot about what happened in my life, my personal experience, renovating, which was not without errors, was not without a lot of stress happens to everybody, even those of us who've been doing this for nearly 20 years. And it also explores how our homes have changed since that pandemic, which really did change how we live in our homes. It really did change how we live and entertain and work. And, you know, even now we see so many more people telecommuting or working part time from home. So I think everybody is kind of valuing their homes a little bit more these days. And this is kind of an exploration of, of how we value it, how we help people create these spaces that they want to stay in.

[C]

Do you and your team also have to Support clients differently because they're coming to the table. So much more invested in the outcome.

[D]

I say there's more hand holding, there's a little bit more overthinking. Sometimes that happens. So I think we have to really talk people through things and work through things together, which I enjoy. Really like, where's my money going? And you know, what kind of quality is this product? I think there's also a lot more. I think people are still scared of timelines and back orders. I think people ask a lot more questions about the procurement process and when things are going to arrive and what's the lead time than they did prior. I don't think that was a concern as much for clients prior. So I do have, luckily I have my design team and then I have my procurement team. I run my business a little bit different than a lot of designers, which is those things are separate. So I've got women who are very dedicated and their focus is on procurement, quoting installations, issues, shipping. And my design team is just focused on the design process. So I think people like having multiple people to reach out to when they have a question.

[C]

And you're sort of always getting a specialist then, right?

[D]

Yes, you are. So like I kind of, I oversee everything. I'm the creative director. I'm hands on in the design process. But there's also that experienced designer who works under me that really knows all the nitty gritty. Like I don't know when something's going to ship. That's not, that's not my strong suit. Like a cad, not my strong suit. Like I don't do that stuff. I hire people who are really good at that. So whether it's big picture, you might want to ask me that question. Whether it's like a detail about the design or a question about a fabric, that would be the designer. And then if it's something about the installation or the ordering process, that would be the project manager.

[C]

What are you most excited about when you walk into work these days?

[D]

I'm excited. I don't have to write another book. Other than that, we have some really interesting projects going on that are gut renovations. You know, there's some gut renovations of older homes that are getting, you know, rebuilt and expanded. Really spectacular locations on the water in here in Massachusetts. Working with one of my favorite architectural teams. That's like an old new house, which is my favorite thing. It's like you get the benefits of the new house, but the look and the details of an old house. And I really, really love doing my product Lines and putting out new products, new rugs and wallpapers and mirrors. I've got some new mirrors coming out and I'm always looking to expand that side of the business. It's a really fun side that I just really enjoy the process of and you know, putting product out in the marketplace that I myself am looking for and wish I could find is really fulfilling. And yeah, getting back to blogging, actually I haven't been able, I know coming back. Well, it's been still there, but it's been intermittent. It used to be, you know, for a really long time. For about 12 years I wrote a blog post every weekday and they were really long and involved. And as the business grew and as the books became a thing and I diversified into different parts of the business like the product lines and Instagram became way bigger than blogging was had to focus on that. I only have so many hours in the day.

[A]

Well, I feel like that level of.

[C]

Content generation is time consuming, is brainstorming consuming?

[D]

But it's really satisfying for me at least. I mean I'm an old school. I started my blog in 2007 and I like the in depth quality of a blog. I know people are now doing substack which I've toyed with. But like my blog has been free for so long. Like I don't, I don't see that being a comfortable move for me. But I do miss the long form, kind of like really diving into stuff and not just the quick little bits on Instagram, which is great and I love it. But I miss producing that kind of more in depth content. And it is like I used to write a lot more, you know, personal essays, a lot more kind of like mind dumps and here are my, my thoughts kind of things. And it helped create a real sense of community amongst people who followed me and it really helped me, helped my quality of life having this community to bounce ideas off of. And I, and I know I've helped other people in being, you know, transparent and honest about all aspects of my life. So I'm looking forward to kind of re engaging on that platform a bit more.

[C]

Well, are you ready to give some advice?

[D]

Always. Amazing. Yep.

[C]

This week we are fielding a question from a designer who was working with a couple, but really just one spouse. And it's sort of this pivotal moment right as they were about to sign off on everything, the other spouse jumps in and just sort of derails everything.

[D]

Tale as old as time.

[C]

Yeah, I say found a workaround this time but I think part of the reason she called in was really looking for guidance to figure out how to never feel this way again. And I was wondering, first of all, when you heard this question, what this surfaced for you. Is this a familiar story to you?

[D]

First of all, yes, absolutely. I mean, this has happened to us multiple times over the years, obviously. But what it really brought up for me was I thought she was incredibly smart in saying that all parties involved are required to be at all meetings, which I have never put in my contract and I have never thought to put in my contract. And part of me thought, well, she's got it locked and loaded. As far as this project where this is happening, you say this is in my contract. I from the beginning put it in writing that, you know, if you're going to be a part of this process, you need to be a part of this process from the beginning. Which I thought was really smart and something I am thankful she brought up because now I'm going to reconsider that my own business. Yeah. Because I have been through this and you can't be strong arm people into meetings. Like, you can't strong arm the husband to come to every meeting meeting if he is, you know, working full time, traveling, whatever.

[C]

Well, I can't imagine if you show up and you're like, wait, where's your spouse? Well, I guess I'll go home. Like, it doesn't work like that.

[D]

No, it doesn't work like that. And so, yeah, while you can put it in your contract, that's not how the real world, you know, there's plenty of things in my contract that, you know, I can't push back on at the end of the day because it's just not legally gonna stick or it's just too stressful and not worth your time or you can't lose the project because of that. So I've been in this position so many times and it is insanely frustrating. And all I can say is money talks. So what happens is you say, okay, you know, we've been doing this for months and months and so we've made all these decisions going back and redoing all of this is going to cost you a lot of money. This is why I never flat fee anything.

[C]

Is there a tell for something like this?

[D]

There normally is, but normally somebody who has that many opinions is going to be opinionated throughout the process and their spouse is going to know that they're going to have opinions and have veto power and will run things by them because they don't want to get to the end and have to redo stuff either. So part of it, to me is kind of part of the blame goes on to that spouse who was working with the designer. They know their partner better than a designer is going to know them and didn't say, hey, I need you to sign off on all these decisions, because I don't want to get to the end and have you come in and mess things up or delay things or want to change things. So I think, you know, it's a pain point for everyone, no matter how wealthy they are, to have to keep paying hourly fees for redoing selections that have already been reworked and quoted and, you know, reserved and all of that. And if they don't care, they don't care. You're gonna make more money hourly. You know, like, as long as you're billing hourly or you have a very clear scope in your contract of what your flat fee covers and anything beyond that is billed hourly. You kind of just have to suck it up and say, okay, I'm gonna make more. It's very frustrating, and it's. It can really be a drag and a damper on the motivation to complete a project or keep working.

[C]

We've already kind of gotten to the phase where you're like, this is the best, right?

[D]

Yeah, I love this. She loves this. It's perfect for the house. We're all so happy we've done all this work. To have someone come in and just completely tear it apart is really demotivating, and it is heartbreaking in a way. We put a lot into this. Like, we really get invested, and we really, really get excited. And so when this happens, it's pretty devastating. But you have to just look at it as an opportunity to earn more hourly billable hours.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And. And from that point on, say, hey, if you're going to come in here now, from here on out, I need you at all these meetings, or I need you to sign off on these proposals or these concepts. You know, we always try to. Even if a spouse isn't coming to meetings, copying them on every email, so at least there is a paper trail there that we have shared what's going on with both of you, you know, so we can go back and say, you know, this was sent. You were on it. I don't. You know, I didn't hear anything back. So you have that to kind of stand on and say, hey, you know, this isn't really fair. So this is, again, it's just another reason to bail hourly. And then, you know, have your markup I know everybody is different and they're different, especially these days. You know, there are very few old school designers who only rely on markup anymore. Because of this and because of people shopping the Internet and you know, comparison shopping and all of that, I think it's the smartest to have a consistent hourly rate. It's a pain to track, but it does really help you in situations like this.

[A]

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[D]

Kind of going.

[C]

Back to the very beginning of bringing client onto a job. What is the work you're doing at the beginning to really assess who the stakeholders are going to be? Is that a conversation you're having very kind of forthrightly with a new client?

[D]

Yeah, I think the onboarding process, I really want to spend more time, I've been spending more time really interviewing in a way, you know, clients are interviewing me, but I'm also interviewing them because it's a long relationship and it's a very personal relationship. Of course there's always little red flags and you're like, is this just me over, over reading this situation or is this going to be a problem? And if I, if any of those come up like something like this, where it's like, well, is your husband gonna really have an opinion on things or is he very checked out? Or and sometimes it's the opposite. Like I have clients where the wife doesn't want to be involved and the husband is involved full time. So it's not always just one way, but it is like asking outright at the beginning, are they going to have an opinion, are they going to be somebody who's going to come in and say at the last minute, I don't like this, I'm just now paying attention after six months of ignoring your emails and now I'm going to come in and be like, oh wait, no, I wanted Yeah, I wanted, you know, chairs and a sofa. Not two sofas in here. So we ask a lot of questions up front about that, about budget, obviously, about the process and what their expectations are. I think setting expectations at the beginning, budget timeline, how the process works, how being decisive is important, how bringing to the table, you know, really good inspiration, helps the process a lot. We really try to be clear upfront about the things we need to do our job to the best of our ability and what we need from them in order to do that so that they end up happy and with a great result. And I think sometimes that is the most valuable part of that, is trust. And so kind of making sure that you have that level of trust from the beginning with the client really does help create the most incredible outcome. And one in which they're the happiest involves them letting go a tiny bit. So it is something that I think every client is individual in assessing their needs and what's going to make them comfortable, whether that's the way you're going about the process. You're meeting in person via Zoom. Are they more comfortable, you know, reviewing fabrics and samples alone, first sitting with it themselves and then reviewing with you, or do they need you there to kind of talk them through everything? Everybody works differently, and figuring out how they work is going to be the best, I think way to begin the process.

[C]

You mentioned sort of that checked out spouse, whichever half of the partnership it is.

[D]

Yep.

[C]

And it seems like that's almost a normal enough phenomenon that it's hard to make that a red flag. Is there a moment where you would sort of check back in with the partner you are meeting with and be like, hey, should I be worried that spouse B hasn't ever popped in? You know, is that. Is that a conversation that's smart to have at some point?

[D]

Yes. We have some clients right now. We're going through, like, a big renovation build, and, you know, we're going through budgets for plumbing and lighting and tile, and the numbers are big, and there's a lot of. And he's a very busy guy, but, like, we know he has strong opinions about, you know, certain things. And we do go to the wife and say, hey, how's he feeling about this? Or any. Any resistance here or any concerns here? And she'll relay like, yep, and is very respectful and honest about, we need a little more time to, like, go through these numbers. He's been traveling this week or whatever.

[C]

So that's a green flag.

[D]

Yeah, that. Yes, that is a green flag, client. But it's also. I think it is important to. To check in, but sometimes you'll get the vibe that it's not a concern. I have clients where I've never spoken to the husband ever.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Ever. And that's fine. And that happens a lot. So you never really know. And I think as long as you ask up front and say, hey, you know, like, I want to make sure that. That they feel involved or that they're not feeling overlooked, you'll probably get a good read on that from the spouse who you're more involved with. That's why this question was a little bit like, it feels like that spouse would have known this was coming. It's very rare that it's, like, completely out of left field, I think, for everybody. Yeah. Like, occasionally there might be, like, a room that they're really particular. Like, most of the house, they don't really care, but in, like, you know, the basement lounge area or, like the pool house or something, and they have forgotten to communicate. That is what that's. They say, oh, you know, do whatever. And they've forgotten to share. Except this one room.

[C]

Except I have these really big feelings about.

[D]

Right. And then you. So you get through the process and a bunch of rooms get approved and ordered and great. And then you get to this one room, and then it's like, oh, wait, oh, I didn't know you had all the big feelings about, you know, the tv, movie room downstairs. Okay. You know, and you have to. But if someone were to come in and question the entire home that I haven't had happen, mostly because we go room to room a lot of times, and it's, you know, so you get a little far along in the process. Along in the process that, you know, somebody's gonna chime in with a veto. So I do think that is a bit of a. It's a bit of an overwhelming thing to have happened.

[C]

What would your response have been in this situation?

[D]

I would have been very direct with the spouse who hadn't been involved and said, you know, I just have to communicate that this is incredibly frustrating that, you know, we have copied you on all these emails in the process, and you haven't been involved. And to have you come in now and make these changes is a big disruptor to the timeline when all of this is going to get installed. And frankly, you basically are going to have to pay for us to redesign all these spaces you've already paid us to design. So if you're fine with that, I guess I'm fine with that. But this has been a project we've been consistently working on and, and you haven't been around. So it is going to be, this is going to be a huge delay. And when they hear delay and more money, usually that creates some kind of other big feelings and maybe it gets walked back a little bit. And there's a, you know, there's a couple reselections, but it's not a complete redesign. But then you're kind of on guard and you're a little bit like, this can't happen again. So you're a little bit more cautious with that client moving forward. Like every decision needs a double sign off. Every. You just start getting nervous about, well, where's the transparency here? Where's the relationship? Like, what's going on?

[A]

Right.

[C]

Trust goes both ways. Right?

[D]

It goes both ways. And what's going on between them? That and not that you're a marriage counselor, but how does this end up happening? There's no communication between the two of them. And how is that going to impact your team, yourself, the design, the process, the build, whatever it is, that is a big red flag moving forward. So it's very painful to do and it's very hard to say no. But occasionally you get those jobs where you get to the point where you say, I don't think this is a good fit anymore. And you know, I, I usually give many chances before I get to that point, but I have gotten to that point before and I have done it and some very big jobs. And it's scary, very scary. But it saves you a lot of heartache and a lot of drama in the long run and opens you up hopefully to fresher opportunities with people who really value you and what you do.

[C]

Can you redeem a project when you have a disruption like this? You know, we were talking about it being just so demoralizing to kind of tap back into creative enthusiasm for something when someone's just sort of like squished these great ideas that have coalesced. But is there a way to sort of salvage the morale around a job like that?

[D]

I think so. I think you kind of. It's like a one opportunity, you know, one time opportunity to do that. Because if it keeps happening, like I said, then yeah, really just getting like beat down into the ground and give up. But that one, it's like, I think you have like, you have like a big powwow meeting. Like, it's a big like, okay, I. We need all to sit down.

[C]

This is internally, right?

[D]

Or with the client? No, with the client. I would say we need to have a big. With everybody on my team. Everybody on your team. And let's look at everything that we've done so far. And I want absolute honesty and, and discussion and openness and how are we going to fix what we've done, you know, utilize a lot what we have done in a way that's going to make you happy at the end, but also make us feel good at the end, putting our name on it and demand that, like, openness and say, okay, we can go back. There are more ideas. You know, there's always more ideas. But, like, I don't want this to happen again, so let's put it all out on the table and really be open and honest about where we want to go, what the look is, what you want, what she wants. How are we going to get there? How did they blend? Can they blend and then go back through the process and explain exactly how it works? And then if it happens again, then no, I would probably quit at that point. Yeah, you have to. You have to maintain your own sanity. I mean, and I, I am very hard pressed to. To quit anything to a fault. And I've learned that the hard way of letting a job go too far too long with too many disruptions and too many things like this happening, where your team gets really unmotivated, and then it affects all the other projects that are going well because it's just stressful and you don't want to work on it, and then it becomes like this nagging thing, and then your creativity goes out the window. So I'd say cut your losses, you know, give them a pass, and then cut your losses and move on to a different opportunity and let them find a different designer that maybe will suit.

[C]

Them as you formalize that contract. You know, if you added this idea of, you know, we want all stakeholders to be there into your contract, is.

[A]

That something you walk the clients through.

[C]

When they sign on with you?

[D]

I think so. I think you, you know, we always give them a sample contract to review before we send an actual contract. And I always say, you know, and some come back with a million red lines and some just sign, and you'd be shocked. It's always like the lawyers that just sign.

[C]

That's really funny.

[D]

Which, Funny. Which I was like, wait, what? So you kind of let them lead that. But I do like to call out that, like, casually in conversation in the beginning, it's not necessarily mentioned that it's part of the contract. You'll. They'll have the ability to See that when they hopefully read the entire thing before they sign it. But to say, like, you know, this is how we like to work. I always like to. To set a. A meeting at the beginning with everybody who's going to be working on the project and really lay out who's responsible for what, what the timelines are, what the deadlines are, what the expectations are and talk through the process, including who needs to be at these meetings and which ones are super important. And maybe it's not everyone, but there are certain important presentation meetings that I think it's always better to have even kids come to the meeting if their rooms are being designed. Like, that's something that has happened where we've designed. They're like, oh, they don't care. And we design a kit. And then, oh, the parents get surprised and they're like, guess what? They care. And you're like, well, I would like that to hear from them, you know, Like, I would like to hear what they really are looking for out of their rooms. It's not just the grownups. I really do like asking kids what they. What they want to get out of their rooms. So it's. It's every. Every party involved in the household.

[C]

Amazing. This has been incredible. Thank you.

[D]

Oh, my pleasure.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I wanted to close by asking you, what is the best piece of advice you've ever received?

[D]

This is something that. It's an older piece of advice, but my dad passed not even two months ago, and he was a major inspiration in my career and a major. A person I looked up to and asked advice of all the time. And I would not be here today without the advice he gave me, which was just go out and try. Just go out and try because you don't want to look back on your life and say, shoot, I should have. I should have tried that, even though it was scary. And he said, give yourself a year. Try this design thing. Try opening your own business. Truly, like, I have no formal training in design. I just knew I loved it. And he was the same way. And he made an incredible career by just teaching himself and trying and putting himself out there.

[A]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and for everyone listening with a question of your own. I'd love for you to ask us anything. Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous. Please start the conversation by sending me an [e-mail] if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. And if you're looking for even more great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Kaitlyn Peterson, and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you here next week.