Ask Us Anything: Regan Baker on how to scale without putting client relationships at risk

Summary

Trade Tales Episode Summary: Ask Us Anything with Regan Baker on Scaling Without Sacrificing Client Relationships

Introduction In this insightful episode of Trade Tales, hosted by Kaitlin Petersen, Business of Home's Editor-in-Chief, listeners are treated to an engaging conversation with Regan Baker. Regan, a seasoned interior designer from San Francisco, delves into the intricate process of scaling an interior design firm while maintaining the integrity of client relationships. Released on March 19, 2025, this episode addresses common challenges faced by growing design businesses and offers practical strategies for sustainable growth.

Scaling Challenges in Interior Design Regan Baker opens the discussion by highlighting the universal hurdles interior designers encounter when scaling their businesses. She emphasizes that while creative growth is essential, managing increased client inquiries and maintaining quality service can be daunting.

"Scaling is by far the hardest," [01:01] Baker asserts, underscoring the complexity of expanding a design firm without compromising on client satisfaction.

Hiring Senior Designers: A Strategic Move A significant portion of the episode focuses on the strategic hiring of senior-level designers. Regan shares her experience of integrating a senior designer into her five-person firm to handle project oversight and client presentations.

"We started getting more inquiries than we could handle or say yes to. That's a great problem to have," [02:25] Baker explains, reflecting on the influx of business following increased marketing efforts.

Regan discusses the importance of introducing senior designers to clients formally. She implemented changes in contracts to feature team member photos and roles, ensuring clients know who their primary contact will be from the outset.

"We started repetitively expressing that I am part of the design making decisions... I oversee everything," [02:25] Baker describes her approach to delegating responsibilities while maintaining oversight.

Managing Client Relationships During Growth One of the critical challenges addressed is transitioning client interactions from the founder to senior designers without alienating clients. Regan emphasizes the necessity of building trust both within the team and with clients.

"Design is inherently personal... What does it take to hand off client communication without damaging the relationship?" [00:51] Kaitlin Peterson poses a pertinent question that Regan adeptly navigates.

Regan's solution involved clearly introducing senior designers during initial meetings and ensuring they are cc'd on all communications. This transparency helps clients feel comfortable with the new points of contact.

"The senior designer is absolutely... she's doing the presentation and sometimes I'm not even there," [02:32] Baker confirms the shift in client-facing roles.

Systematizing Processes for Efficiency A recurring theme in the conversation is the implementation of structured processes to ensure consistency and efficiency. Regan highlights the use of project management tools like Asana to streamline operations.

"We use Asana, it's a project management tool... we have put in a template so every time we onboard a client, we assign and literally have a start to finish process," [17:51] Baker elaborates on the importance of systematization.

By establishing standardized procedures, Regan ensures that every team member is aligned, reducing errors and enhancing productivity. This systemization is particularly crucial when expanding the team and delegating responsibilities.

Team Structure and Roles Regan provides an in-depth look into her firm's team structure, which now includes senior designers, intermediate designers, project managers, and junior designers. Each senior designer leads a team, ensuring that projects are managed effectively from conception to completion.

"We have three teams, each led by a senior designer... we really need the team to have a project management component," [19:27] Baker outlines her organizational framework.

This hierarchical structure not only facilitates better project oversight but also fosters a collaborative environment where each team member can contribute their strengths.

Dealing with Growth and Embracing Friction Growth inevitably brings challenges, and Regan candidly discusses the friction that arises when scaling a business. She emphasizes the importance of allowing team members to fail and learn, which is essential for personal and professional development.

"The hardest part is like letting go and letting people fail... the more friction you have, the more you're growing," [28:47] Baker shares her perspective on embracing the inevitable challenges of expansion.

Regan advises fellow entrepreneurs to view friction as a sign of growth and to maintain patience and trust in their team's capabilities.

Advice for Scaling Successfully Towards the end of the episode, Regan offers valuable advice for designers looking to scale their firms. She highlights the significance of hiring individuals who align with the firm's values and possess strong critical thinking skills.

"Trust who you are and don't get caught in the noise of the expectations of what you think you should do," [34:54] Baker imparts her most cherished advice, encouraging authenticity and self-trust.

Regan also stresses the importance of continuous system improvement and being open to adapting processes to suit the growing needs of the business.

Conclusion In this episode of Trade Tales, Regan Baker provides a comprehensive roadmap for interior designers aiming to scale their businesses without sacrificing client relationships. Through strategic hiring, process systematization, and embracing the challenges of growth, Regan demonstrates that it is possible to expand successfully while maintaining the personalized touch that clients value. Her insights serve as a valuable guide for design entrepreneurs navigating the complexities of business growth.

Notable Quotes:

• "Scaling is by far the hardest." — Regan Baker [01:01]
• "We started repetitively expressing that I am part of the design making decisions... I oversee everything." — Regan Baker [02:25]
• "Trust who you are and don't get caught in the noise of the expectations of what you think you should do." — Regan Baker [34:54]

Final Thoughts This episode is a must-listen for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs seeking practical advice on growing their firms sustainably. Regan Baker's experience and strategic approach offer actionable steps to balance expansion with client satisfaction, ensuring long-term success in the competitive design industry.

Transcript

[Caitlin Peterson]

Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor in chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything, a new show where I'll be tempting former Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. Some weeks we'll be workshopping a crisis. In others, we'll take a step back to talk about the big picture. Things like embracing change, hiring, or how to level up. No question is out of bounds. No question is too large or too small. And keeping it confidential so that this is always a safe space to air your frustrations and share your fears. This week I'm excited to field a question from a designer whose five person firm is going through some growing pains.

[Reagan Baker]

I think that every interior designer that's starting has hurdles that they're going through and scaling is by far the hardest.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Our question asker has already taken a first step. She made a senior level hire, someone who can run a job with some creative oversight. Now she's looking at the junior employees on her team and wondering how to get them ready for that same level of responsibility. But she's also looking at her clients and wondering what it will take to get them on board with that kind of change.

[Reagan Baker]

We started getting some publications maybe two years ago and that marketing and all of that recognition started working and we were getting more inquiries than we could actually handle or say yes to. That's a great problem to have. Every inquiry that comes through the door, you're like, yes, absolutely, I'm here to help. You have to also understand your time and if you are a small business, the amount of people on your team to be able to step up and help. And so being able to bring on another designer right away has really been a question of how to. Because clients are calling and wanting you as the face or that specific style that they've seen on Instagram. What we started just doing is repetitively expressing that I am part of the design making decisions. You know, I oversee everything. But you really want that designer there to step up because they are going to be the ones that are paying attention to your orders, paying attention to every single detail of the project. And I'm just here to sort of delegate and oversee everything.

[Unnamed Designer]

Is the person, you know that in that senior designer role, are they doing the presentation or is that a place where you step in and our client.

[Reagan Baker]

Facing again on these jobs, the senior designer is absolutely. She's doing the presentation and sometimes I'm not even there. And then only coming back to me if the client likes something and the price came in too high. And we don't think that they'll go for it. And then we'll have a conversation about, you know, what we need to change or how we need to pivot.

[Unnamed Designer]

Where were clients? Seeing that designer team member and sort of expressing, oh, I wish that was.

[Reagan Baker]

You first step that I did was in our contracts. I started showing pictures of our team and saying, this is your senior designer, and showing a picture of the senior designer. We also introduced that senior designer now at that first meet and greet, we call it. And then they're cc'd on every email. They're the main point of contact. They're having the conversations. And I'm kind of taking a step back and only interjecting when it's something that I need to get involved in. It wasn't easy. There's a lot of clients still calling and saying, you know, I want to be able to, you know, pick up the phone and speak with you right away.

[Caitlin Peterson]

That shift from me to we is a common pain point for entrepreneurs.

[Unnamed Designer]

When you've got your name on the.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Door and you've spent years building a business around your time and talent, what happens when you're ready to hand off some of the day to day tasks to someone else? So many designers have told me that it's more seamless in some parts of the business than others. You want to hand off procurement and vendor communication. Totally doable.

[Unnamed Designer]

You want to take on more of.

[Caitlin Peterson]

A creative director role within your firm and build a team of senior designers to bring that vision to life. Harder, sure, but totally within the realm of possibility. Handing off client communication to another employee when the client is all in on working with you, that's another story entirely. Design is inherently personal. You're getting to know the most intimate details of your client's life so that you can perfectly tailor their spaces. But those deep connections can also train a client to depend on that connection for confidence at every touch point. What does it take to hand off client communication without damaging the relationship? As we ended our call, I knew just who to connect with to help our question asker find her footing. All that and more in just a moment. These days, we're all searching for a sense of sanctuary. A retreat from the deadlines and headlines that dominate our daily lives. And with its latest releases, Four Hands has answered that call, debuting a new collection of furniture, rugs, decor, and more. That's all about comfort, serenity, and escape. Featuring simple lines, natural materials, and artisan construction, these pieces are truly designed to lift the spirits. I got to see the collection firsthand. And one of my favorite pieces is the Celeste Accent Bench, which is crafted in a toasted ash veneer and this.

[Unnamed Designer]

Distinctive kidney shape that makes it perfect.

[Caitlin Peterson]

For floating in a room. And that's just one of so many memorable pieces. You can discover the entire collection and explore the benefits of shopping with four hands. For your next [e-mail] TradeTales today, I'm joined by former Trade Tales guest Reagan Baker, whose San Francisco firm is currently fielding an exciting project abroad and gearing up for a major office remodel. When Reagan was on the show the first time, she explained how she evolved from a solo entrepreneur to the leader of a 24 person firm. A process that involved letting go in order to grow. I thought she'd be the perfect person to answer today's question.

[Unnamed Designer]

Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks so much for having me. Caitlin, it's always great.

What have you been up to since we had you on the show last? What are you excited about in your business this year?

Yeah, so we actually have a project in Lake Como and we just got approval from the municipality in Como. So we are starting the project. So I'm super excited about that. And then we've since also gotten the green light to do our Laguna beach project. So we've got a few exciting new builds and just old restorations in place that I'm really excited about. Now I get to go to Lake Como more, which is amazing.

That's a great problem to have.

Exactly.

I feel like there's been so much hand wringing about sort of the volume or the vitality of projects. As 2024 came to a close. Has this first bit of 2025 felt.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Different or felt like a shift to you?

[Unnamed Designer]

I will say that one of our projects actually did just end when we thought it was going to basically kick off. So that's been one thing that was kind of a bummer because we are so excited about this tea room that we designed. But while that one has left, it is given us room to do others now that have been in the queue, um, and we are definitely getting. There's. There's a lot of inquiry. So I will say while the, the first of the year is typically kind of slower for us, it's been. It's been a lot more active.

What are you most excited about when you walk into work every day?

I would say the idea of us doing a remodel because our office, I've been here since 2013. Well, in this kind of area in this building and I've since moved around, but we've acquired another lease on to the side of us. So we're kind of expanding. And I think my excitement is just we're going to make this like a showroom for, for our clients and our, our artisans that we work with. So we are still kind of finalizing the design, but we've been getting bids and the idea is that it starts within the next three months.

How do you approach an investment like that? That is so much sort of an investment in. That's so internal, right?

Yeah. You know, I've been looking for an office building for the past two years and have landed back here just because we realize it's a great location. So it's a big deal to uproot our office and move it to a different part of the city. But I think where we've landed is it's really nice to be next to the design center and have the ability to be a place where, you know, a lot of people who've been here for a while have the ability to get, you know, 20 minutes, their, you know, door to door to their house. But I, I will say it's in terms of a financial investment, it's going to be an investment and I think we just have to be smart about it. And you know, I don't own the building, so if I did own the building, I would approach it much differently. And so it's hard as a designer, you want to make it look amazing, but I think you choose, you know, the front of the house and the conference room and then the middle where everybody's working. But then maybe, you know, where our materials library is, we don't do as much or we find ways to be smart about the investment.

You know, you transform these client facing spaces in your office, how do you imagine that that will transform your working relationship with your clients?

That's a good question. I think it's going to show, I mean, different ways of, you know, transitions and how materials meet, but also a thoughtful way of how you can vignette something and make it look amazing with, you know, different outside of the box thinking vendors and artisans that we work with on a daily basis. So I think it's more about really incorporating the art and the artisans in the space and how we can utilize their stuff and how we collaborate with them and showcase why it's important to work with people who we love because they are a part of our ethos or part of our, the value systems that we have, but also because they, you Know they, they look like and feel like the homes that we want our clients as homes to feel like.

I have a question for you.

Yeah.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Are you ready to give some advice today?

[Unnamed Designer]

I sure am. I'm always happy to give advice.

Amazing. We have a question asker today who is looking at her firm. You know, she's finding success, she's got some media attention, her business is growing and she wants to bring on senior level designers who can really take over the day to day operations running her projects, including interfacing with her clients. And I think one of her early reactions was really experiencing some resistance from her clients who said, well, I want.

[Caitlin Peterson]

To work with you and I know.

[Unnamed Designer]

That'S something you've worked on in your own business, like a transition that you have kind of moved through. Tell us, when did that happen for you? What was sort of the, the moment where you thought, I don't want to be the only person talking to clients anymore?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's when you're slowing the process down, you're like, I would like to move faster because, you know, every minute we bill hourly, so every minute counts. And also, you know, projects need to move forward and whenever you can't answer emails quick enough and I am terrible and so slow at emails, that makes.

Me feel so much better about myself. It's not just me.

Nope. Exactly. So I'm, yeah, I'm terrible at emailing and communication. I'm actually really good listener. I'm really good at taking notes. On that note, I think it's more when you hire a senior. I, Amy McKenzie, who has been with me actually since 2015, when I hired her, I didn't realize that she was an introvert, but a kind of an analytical thinker. And one thing that I realized is that because of that, I love working with her. And I'm the extrovert. I, you know, get to have a lot of conversation, be, be the person who's the talkative person, whereas she can, she can sit down and analyze everything and then actually regurgitate that and simplify it in a, in a very concise way in an email to clients. And so I think when I hired her, I was definitely needing support on that area. I needed to start letting go if I was wanting to grow. And so in order to do that, you know, she needed to help me also email people, but also get somebody in the office who could actually help me let go. And so when you hire that first senior and you realize, wow, they are so thoughtful with their questions, they also have enough experience where they understand what questions to ask. It allows. It allowed me to, yeah, let go and trust. Because I think that's the biggest thing is when you have a senior that you trust and you want to bring more seniors on, you really start to analyze why it's working and what you need. So we have three teams, and I have seniors that lead each of those teams and each designer, senior designer. It's very important to. To make sure they understand how important it is to have the process in. At rbd in our. Our company. The process is very important because it helps us all get to a point and also grow better, but to help them lead. And so I think it's definitely one of those things that, you know, as a senior, when you hire a senior, it is important that they have the same style so you can let go. And they are open and eager to learn the process.

Are you expecting them to come in, like 80 or 90% of the way there, sort of understanding the choices that you would make or how much of that is okay, I like what you're doing, and we will teach you how to think like me.

I think critical thinking skills as a leader is huge. Some people's strengths are, you know, more in the design realm. Some people are more project management. Some people are gifted with both. And I think here, if you're wanting to lead, you kind of have to be gifted with both. But if you come to the table with those, then you're. It's a. It's a solid rock star. You know, we want to hire you. Everything has to really be detail oriented. So you, you know, you need to list the budget and how much. If we've given you a problem, which we do, we give them a problem, a design problem, and they have to come with, you know, pull together presentation with the budget. And if they don't do that, then they don't get to be hired.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Is this the hardest role to hire for?

[Unnamed Designer]

Yes, because it's the most important. I was thinking where I am at now. I've. I've hired a, you know, a couple seniors. Some have not worked out, some have. And I know now what I need and want and what. What we need to look for and what. And I really. It comes down to the values of it's important. It doesn't matter that other people and firms have different values than you. If you have a value and you have a system and a process that you want to do, that person needs to come on board and be okay and open to doing that. And if you can't, they're not interested in that. Then it's not going to be a good fit.

How do you prepare your firm for that kind of transition? To have someone come in at that senior level role? Or are there things you wish you had done when hiring that first senior that would have made kind of handing off some of that project management or running the job easier and less challenging?

So when I first hired Amy, we didn't really have our indesign presentation as a standard.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Okay.

[Unnamed Designer]

I knew every time I wanted to look at the floor plan and I wanted to have a mood image that was solidified by the client and I wanted to have, you know, all of these things. And so when we, when I, we had, we hired another, you know, junior who was a rock star, she would have to go back and redo things because they weren't. So it's just not efficient. And so I was like, okay, we're going to put it together. Yeah, this is what's required. And there's a reason for this and it's explaining why this works. I mean, some people get frustrated because they want to do things differently, but there's a reason. Because when you are a reviewer now, you're not doing the work, you need that consistent measure to make sure that you're covering everything. And the questions that always come up that I would always ask, where's the floor plan? Is it to scale?

As the reviewer, do you mean you as the principal? Like you need visual consistency so that you know that there aren't steps being missed.

And when you're a senior designer, that becomes so important because when the senior designer is starting to review it, because they present now to me as if it's done, I then get to see it, it's already done and they know that that's what it's supposed to look like as well. And then we've of course shifted our process and we used to not have pricing or where it fell in the budget. Now we include. There's a lot of things that we iterate on or we say, okay, we need to actually add elevations, rendered elevations, but let's do this efficiently. Let's use one page. And so we'll have to, we modify things, but at least we have a go by. And those items need to actually be done before a senior sees it or definitely before I see it.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Are there other places where that sort.

[Unnamed Designer]

Of systemization has become more essential?

Yeah, I mean even from like we use Asana, it's a project management tool. It just basically allows any of the seniors or anybody to. On a team who's working as a team to go in and see where someone is at in a process. You know, we have put in a template, so every time we onboard a client, we put it in to assign and we literally have a, you know, start to finish. You know, we actually just added putting, you know, construction documents and our studio designer program are two different documents that we categorize and inventory everything that has been specified for the project. And so we just literally this week was like our. As a media, we, you know, when we're trying to do publications, we always have to understand where our sources come from. And sometimes it's really hard for our marketing person to go and find everything. And so at the end of that process, we're now making sure that the senior is putting in all of the construction documents. Now, you know, then. And then we're going to come back and like, make sure this happens on a day, on a and basis. But for now, we're making sure the documents are easy to find for her so she can just easily utilize one. One place for everything.

[Caitlin Peterson]

I want to talk a little bit.

[Unnamed Designer]

About, you know, adding that senior designer to kind of run the team. You know, you're talking about the presentation is going to trickle up to that senior designer and then they're going to present it to you. Can you break down a little more the different roles of your team members now and also how you articulate your role within the firm today?

So we have three teams. Each team is led by a senior designer and then we have an intermediate designer and a project manager or a junior designer. So it kind of depends. We have strengths. Some seniors have stronger strengths than others in certain areas. And so we, we really kind of balance those with how we create teams and who we've hired. So my role, I will say, has changed. So a lot of. To your point, at the very beginning, a lot of people want to work with me and people will ask like, if I want to work with you, can I? And I'm like, yes, you can. However, it might take a little longer for me to get back to you. And there. That's why we have our team and we have. I have amazing team and seniors who actually are going to. You're going to love and I'm on every project. I actually do go to the meetings sometimes. We've actually, I've divided my. Amy, who's been with me for 10 years, really knows and understands that she's been promoted to design director and she and I have really kind of divided the teams that she's leading, the team projects that, that I'm leading, but I still oversee everything. But she's going to the meetings, those meetings that she's leading and I'm going to the meetings that, on the projects that I'm leading. But everybody really needs to have a project management component. We have a director of operations which actually is Jace, my husband who's taking over that role. But he, he's not in the day to day. He's helping us strategize on how to move things along if people are stuck or clients, you know, unable to make decisions. We come together and strategize and how to make things happen. But on a day to day we really need the team. I need the team to basically have a project, which is why we use Asana Project Manager, a project management component to make sure that we're driving things forward. So the senior really is that person who's confirming, making sure things are moving forward. And then we have an intermediate designer who's basically doing a lot of the production, most of the production. And we also have on one team we have a junior designer who is also sharing in the production. And then on another team we actually have another basically a. She is a technical designer but also a project manager. So she's doing a lot of the production but also doing a lot of the project management to making sure the projects are moving forward.

[Caitlin Peterson]

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[Unnamed Designer]

Real time inventory updates so you always.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Have a clear picture of what's possible. And features like guest accounts for your clients that put you in the driver's seat when it comes to sharing details like pricing. As a designer, you automatically unlock wholesale pricing with no order minimums and deeper discounts. The more you spend, explore the benefits of shopping with forehands for your next purchase [e-mail] Tradetails.

[Unnamed Designer]

Where do you step in these days? Where do clients see you? But also where are you putting your fingerprint on the work?

So the very, very Beginning. I love to space plan, and I love to set the mood and the directions, and I love to shop.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Great.

[Unnamed Designer]

So I'm basically doing all of those. We bring onboard a project, and we don't have the time for a team to take it at the moment, and this person needs to get. This client needs to get started. Then myself and Amy will do a, you know, sketch a plan that works together, and we can we do that either together or I do it myself and then for shopping. So a lot of the times, in order to set a mood, I really have found it's most efficient to. To start shopping with people, basically take them around, and if they have the ability to go to New York or la, even better to just really understand kind of what they like. But San Francisco is great too. We just did this with a client and loved everything that we did, and I think it's just gonna. It really helps set the color palette, you know, helps set the tone, it helps set the style. And I get to help with explaining, oh, that could be good here, or that could be great here. I love details. I love the details. And making sure that I'm encouraging our team to really think through those is that's why we have standards, and that's why we have a process in place. I have a guy I've hired who is in charge of literally doing. Making sure that the standards and the details and all of that are thought through. Because it's so important to me, you know, having an internal team do that and make sure that that's understood really already sets a tone here and allows me to ask how those are coming and check in and. And make making sure that we're really extending ourselves to the fullest. The last thing we want to do is have all these amazing details and then they not work.

How do you handle that transition from, you know, we've gotten to know you, we've come up or, you know, I've come up with your floor plan, we've gone shopping together. All right, this is going to be your person to email moving forward. Like, I'm sure it's not that abrupt, but how do you make that comfortable and exciting for everybody?

Yeah. Well, and one thing I did skip at the beginning was basically at the very, very beginning, we have a project alias, and I introduce the senior designer every time. And this is actually part of the interview process. So, you know, I used to say in the interview, I will be on every project. And I don't say that anymore. I say, okay, I will be helping set the Vision and the tone. But, and I can, I will be coming to some of your meetings, but you will be working with this person. And a lot of the times our clients have asked to interview the senior who they're going to work with.

Yeah. So the designer who asked this question had already really taken that first step. She made a senior level hire to run some of their own jobs with creative oversight. And one of the things she said to me was that she's sort of looking at some of the junior employees now on her team and wondering if there's sort of an opportunity to help them grow into that same level of responsibility. Is that in your experience, like a homegrown role, or should you really be looking to hire someone and bring someone in who has a really deep well of experience already?

So I will say, you know, when you bring in a junior designer, the expectation is they don't know a lot. There are definitely. Well, and there are definitely though. Yes, yeah, but. And that you're going to be having to train a lot, which is true. And mentor, which I love. But I will say there are definitely some juniors out there who are just naturals. And while the idea of having somebody just come into the office as a junior and not, you know, and expect to like, not grow or want to grow, I think personality is a huge part of, of if you want to be here and you want to grow, you can tell those juniors and those are the ones I actually give a lot more freedom with. And so yes, to your point, I have, in fact, I have three. I was telling you I have three. Three studio or three teams, but I, I technically have four. And I have one who's basically shown me that she is capable of doing a lot more. So I've given her a lot more freedom and she has, she's running a project of mine. I've done this with another person who is here previously as well. And those people, you know, we're going to go start their own business one day or they're gonna. But you take every ounce of them that you can because they're sponges. They just want to know everything. And there are people out there that have always dreamt of doing exactly what I did. So I would, I'm happy to, you know, harness and, and maybe because I'm allowing these opportunities for them, they'll want to stay longer, but at least I'm getting the every ounce of their goodness.

What are the biggest friction points in growing in this way, in, in sort of stepping out of the day to day management of A project that's the.

Hardest part is like letting go and letting people fail. I think that's the biggest way and the quickest way to learn though, and I think that's my realization is I will say the more friction you have, the more you're growing. And I will say, you know, there are definitely, it's, you don't want to be having friction all the time. But I will say that if you are wanting to grow, there's going to be friction, and friction actually is okay and you should embrace it because that just means you're growing. And if you want to move forward and move faster and you want people to learn quickly and you want to be able to let go and do other things that potentially, you know, inspire you as a leader, as a, as the founder. If you want to grow and do different things, get into different, you know, do a book, whatever, you have to let go.

Are you the type of person who was more inclined to be good at letting go of that or no?

No.

Okay, well, then let's talk about that. How do you start to get comfortable saying, I might not be perfectly happy with the way this happens and the outcome will still be okay?

Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of that is my team having people who know you and know you want to be perfect and just to say it's okay. This is how we grow. This is how you do it. This is how you get better. This is how you get to do the things you want to do more of, is by letting go.

One of the things I keep thinking about, about the way your team is structured is that our question asker was telling me that they're also mulling, do they need an expediter, someone to do procurement logistics? Is it helpful as you move into this senior led team model to have those other sort of subject area experts managing certain parts of the operation of the firm? And how has that helped you?

Yes, well, we have been doing so. I have a bookkeeper and then I have a bookkeeping assistant who also helps with purchasing. She is amazing with like making sure taxes removed. All of you know, the standards she's actually come up with. Recently last year came up with a process for all of our people to be consistent with our proposals. So it's easier for her and for everybody to not make mistakes. The funny thing is we did try an expediter role the very beginning after I hired my first senior. And we realized at that point it was, we were not ready for it. We didn't have a process in place. We Made more mistakes because the person had zero context, not really in the industry, so didn't really know the questions to ask. So we realized it needed to stay within the team. And I still think wholeheartedly, specifications seniors still need to be reviewing all the proposals that go out. But the actual purchasing person, we actually have recently, literally, she's not even started this role, but we'll be starting in April.

Okay. Super, super new.

Super new. But she is going to be our expediter. I'm excited about it because I think we have a person here who is going to be phenomenal at it. And I think you just have to know when you're ready.

Totally. How many people on a given job are in contact with the client?

Usually one which is the senior. And then myself if I chime in. But on a day, on a day to day is just one. And we really want to be careful with too many people. So usually the senior. And then if we need help, we'll say, we got the email and that's a junior.

The big reason, right, to want to grow your team in this way is to expand what's possible, both for you as a principal, but also, I would imagine, to be able to take on just more work. Can you talk a little bit about the upside of making all of these changes, navigating all these transitions? What happens when you come out the other side?

Yeah, I think, well, growth is one, personal growth. I think I grow and realize that I don't have to be involved in every step of the way. And I therefore can do, you know, projects such as this Lake Como project, things that, you know, I have always wanted to do, such as, you know, do an office remodel or help or maybe write a book or, you know, yeah, sometime, you know, but allowing me the space to even have the ability to think about those things is huge because I think, you know, when you're, as you grow and you have teams that have been here for a while, they're like, what's next? What are we doing next? You know, so when you're letting go, you're allowing, yes, more work, but really better work. Being able to have the time to think through the details and not just rush the amount of work you're getting, but you're able to say yes to the projects you want because, you know, you can let go, but also have the ability to. To be involved as much as you want and be excited with a project because you can insert like a detail that you're thinking through or you. That you want to make sure we include, you know, you get to really dive into the personality, making a project more personal. Whereas if you are just kind of bringing in work and I'm having to stay in the details, I can't be up high actually thinking about the bigger picture. And it allows, it just allows that higher level thinking and the excitement that I like so much to do is to push everybody.

You know, we've been giving advice to this question asker, but I wanted to turn the tables a little bit.

[Caitlin Peterson]

What is the best piece of advice you've ever received?

[Unnamed Designer]

The best piece of advice I would say is probably trust who you are and don't get caught in the, in the noise of the expectations of what you think you should do. Just be you and the people who are excited to be, you know, and want to do the same thing that you are will come to you. You know, it's been a challenge to, as a, not a challenge, but it, I guess exploration as you grow of who should be here and who should not be here. I love my team right now and you know, it's taken, it's taken 10 years. Well, 10 years it's been more than that. But it's taken a while to get to a place where I feel really good about the team I have. And I think a lot of that has to do with me realizing that it's okay if I want to do something a certain way and if it doesn't work out, we can always shift and you know, that's it. But I think being true to who I am as a person person and the way I want to run the company and the way I, the expectations that I have, it's actually good.

[Caitlin Peterson]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for being here and for everyone listening with a question of your own. I'd love for you to ask us anything.

[Unnamed Designer]

Don't worry, we'll keep it anonymous.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Please start the conversation by sending me an [e-mail] if you're enjoying Trade Tales, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show.

[Unnamed Designer]

And if you're looking for even more.

[Caitlin Peterson]

Great business advice, head on over to businessofhome.com Trade Tales is produced by me, Kaitlyn Peterson and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see.

[Unnamed Designer]

You here next week.

[Caitlin Peterson]

It.