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Trade Tales
Cortney Bishop on the monthly fee that keeps her firm in motion
00:56:30
Cortney Bishop on the path she took to level up her clientele, why she thinks of her projects as marketing campaigns, how hiring a business manager is one of the best decisions she ever made—and what you should look for in a candidate if you want to hire one, too.
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- [00:02]
Courtney Bishop
It took several years, if not 10 years to get this company and this business up and running and really thriving on a level of profitability where I considered myself a success.
- [00:21]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Hi, I'm Kaitlyn Peterson, the editor in Chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Tales. We're back for season seven of the show where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots and perspective shifts that come with growing a design firm. My hope is that you hear your own why reflected in these stories, or an idea, or a way of doing business that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when times are tough and entrepreneurship feels lonely, you're not alone. My guest today is a designer whose entrepreneurial spirit has driven her to create a one of a kind business complete with an in house receiving operation and a creative approach to experiential e commerce. She explains how each venture has helped her level up not just her firm but also her own creativity. I can't wait to share it with you. First, a quick word from our sponsors. This podcast is sponsored by Ethan Allen. Imagine you've just landed a major client and they want a big presentation in a very short amount of time. Ethan Allen Trade puts everything designers need right at their fingertips with with Ethan Allen's state of the art floor planner, designers can create realistic floor plans, 3D images and even 3D video previews. And Ethan Allen Concierge can pull together furniture options, accents, samples and then when your client says yes, Ethan Allen handles the ordering and delivery for you as well. Apply for your own trade account today@ethanallen.com Trade this podcast is also sponsored by the Shade Store. The Shade Store offers designers everywhere a simplified resource for handcrafted custom window treatments with a team of dedicated design consultants available to guide you through the material and product selection process, a vast network of measuring install professionals to ensure the perfect fit, and more than 150 showrooms nationwide. The Shade Store offers the bespoke customization of a high end workroom backed by the support of a national organization. Let the Shade Store take care of window treatments for you. Sign up for a trade account today@theshadestore.com.com trade that's the shade store.com trade.
- [02:54]
Courtney Bishop
People say what did you want to do when you were little? I always say I think I wanted to be an entrepreneur, even though I didn't know what that word was or really what a career in entrepreneurship was at that time. Now I had the interiors background because my mother started her own firm when I was a child she was a married mom, but she was had her own business by herself. So she was kind of running the show on her own. And she ran her company out of my basement in our home. So I was around her all day long with her fabrics and her samples and her jobs, and we would talk about it on a daily basis. That was kind of my background.
- [03:27]
Kaitlyn Peterson
That's Courtney Bishop. She went on to earn a business degree before landing a corporate sales job. A few years later, she fell in love, and she decided to start a new chapter of married life in Knoxville, Tennessee.
- [03:41]
Courtney Bishop
I realized at that point, because I had not stopped working the entire time we were courting, that I needed to find a new job. And this was my opportunity to potentially do something else creative that I really loved. So I better get this right. What are the things that I truly love to do? Interior design became a very obvious choice for me. So I started to integrate myself into this community of artists. I spent two years at Bennett Galleries in Knoxville, Tennessee, learning everything I could about the art and artisanship of fine art and furnishings. And I loved every minute of it. But I knew, always knew from the day that I started that I would have my own business. Two years later, I partnered with one of the galleries lead designers and asked her to go on this journey with me. And we had our own interior design firm in Tennessee for about five years.
- [04:28]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Finally, Courtney had launched a business of her own. But when it came to putting down roots, her heart was set on another city.
- [04:37]
Courtney Bishop
Charleston was the city that I always wanted to live in. My parents had a little villa that turned into a beach house on Kiawah Island. It was a place I was married, Kristin and my kids. It has a huge, long life history with me. 40 years. And so I always knew that's where I wanted to end up. You know, I rolled over in our bed one morning and I said, honey, I think we're moving to Charleston. I found us a house. It's the best house you've ever seen. And I really want you to drive to Charleston with me tomorrow and put an offer in on the. And he did it. That decision led to my break off to really just jump in and rename the firm, break off my partnership on great terms, and just start my own thing.
- [05:24]
Kaitlyn Peterson
In 2007, Courtney founded her firm with her own name on the door. I wanted to talk to her about the path she took to level up her clientele, why she thinks of her projects as marketing campaigns, and what she says designers should look for in a business manager. How long did it Take before you felt like your business in Charleston had sort of hit its stride, or, you know, you felt really secure in what you were building.
- [05:54]
Courtney Bishop
I really feel like I got lucky or, you know, I was just blessed to be doing a little bit more modern approach to design than many of the designers that were currently here. And so I really felt like that was kind of the exciting part of what we were doing in Charleston. Just knowing that I might be doing something different. That's when I felt like it could be successful in general. But it took several years, if not 10 years, to get this company and this business up and running and really thriving on a level of profitability where I considered myself a success. So it's really about continuing to learn. That's kind of my ethos for life. And the profitability marker of being a success by, I think, a financial security standpoint, I think that really took about five to 10 years where I could carry my weight in terms of expenses with my husband and really make an impact on our life, you know, and. And partner with him, because there's just so much refining in this business. There's so many different avenues that. That the design world can go into, and we can, I hate to say cut out the middleman, but. But truly, that's part of the business is. Is trying to save expenses, right? Because it is a very expensive business to get into, and you're managing very large budget. You know, in. In my career, I am managing really large budgets, and there's a lot of moving cash. Let's just say there's a lot of incoming and outgoing, and you've really got to figure out those small margins that give you the profitability.
- [07:52]
Kaitlyn Peterson
What's a good example of that? Or, like, where's a. Where's a place that you kind of refined to avoid some of those costs.
- [07:59]
Courtney Bishop
Understanding that there's just so many expenses for them to get their head around. Because, you know, the reality is they can go shopping, they can order from catalogs. You know, they can go to a vintage store just as easily as we can. But when it comes to their first full experience, the client's first full experience with an interior design firm, it's a lot for them to kind of get their head around when it comes to our specific expenses that we have associated with the clients, with the design, procurement, choreography in building this home for them and actually taking it to the finish line, which, you know, can go down. Can come down to household essentials like forks and knives, you know, and toilet paper, for that matter. So we really Wanted to look at it from a client's perspective. And of course, that's all practice makes perfect, right? I'm a sensitive person and I do think I'm quite intuitive. That might be one of my superpowers, but intuitive with a specific client relationship, I can sense, or at least after getting to know them for a little while, I can really sense where their trigger markers are, where their trigger points are, specifically who is who in that relationship. What's important to either one, the husband and the wife, or, you know, what's important to them through this experience. Is it, you know, transparency? Is it the bottom line budget that we've prepared, or is it the timing? Or is it specifically that, you heard my wife and this is what she wants, you know, so it is one of those constant experiments where I'm lucky enough to now have my husband as my partner. And he and I talk about how to make this process easier and simpler and more transparent for all of our clients. And in doing so, to get back to your. Your question, what were some of those big moves, those big plays that we made and really deciding to take on the receiving an installation company and warehousing all of our goods. And that's still to this day, I think one of the biggest wins for the company in terms of being able to control the experience and being able to streamline the process for not only our clients, but for us and, you know, the girls that work in the studio and creating a seamless experience for our clients where they don't have to worry about a thing. They can ship their specific coffee maker or the sheets that they love, or even the mattress that they want. They can ship it directly to our warehouse at any time. And there's somebody from our firm specifically receiving it and noting it and making sure that it's taken care of for them. And there's this connection between firm, our specific design studio, and the receiving warehouse, cbdt, and that we're communicating on a daily basis and that those are the same guys that are going to actually install the piece. So just one example of many, but these are the things that I love to do. This is that entrepreneurial mind that I've had since a kid. This is so fun for me. I think I drive everybody crazy in my family and my husband too. But, you know, he says every day, well, keep thinking of those good ideas, Courtney, because, you know, it's working. So even though I am built this way, I still really, really think about it on a daily basis. I'm still doing it 20 years later.
- [11:33]
Kaitlyn Peterson
You mentioned, you know, some of those trigger points where you can kind of sense where a client is going to be sensitive. Are you changing your business or sort of the flow of how your firm works from client to client to kind of adapt to those sensitivities, or is it more about preventing any client from feeling any of those things?
- [11:54]
Courtney Bishop
Sure. I think there's a dance to each client, there's a strategy to each relationship. And I know we are extremely selective with who we go into a relationship with at this point in the career, but there's a lot of factors to that, too. It's not personality per se, it's just specific things. It's kind of a give and take. What do I want, what do they want? And how has this kind of fall into our trajectory? But the dance comes in the communication. It truly comes in how you respond to the client's questions and needs. And I can sense what those are in the first 30 days of getting to know our client. Once we've accepted the job, through that interview process and the questions that they've asked, my business manager, Blair and I, are able to kind of fine tune who we should put as lead designer on that project, how we should communicate with them moving forward, what. How we feel like they need to. Their timeline needs to be structured so that they understand and can follow along with those like major benchmarkers for how this project is moving along. Because, you know, in reality, we're doing so much behind the scenes that your clients, you know, the clients don't even know or realize. And I think that can be stressful for them. You know, yes, of course they're in good hands. Yes. We have a trajectory of successful projects that they can see or speak to with, with referrals, but. But they still don't know exactly what we're doing. And they're getting a bill every month. And it's not a design fee bill, it's not a design time bill, it's not a retainer. It is a. A full project fee, but it is broken up into monthly installments. So I think, you know, every month when they do sit down to write that check or press the button to make that payment, they really think we know. They think, okay, well, where are we in this project? What's going on? You know, so it's really about making sure that we understand the clients that we're working with and what their needs are.
- [14:02]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Where are sort of the levers where you can flex to adjust for a client's preferences when you sit down to have that conversation and make that project roadmap.
- [14:10]
Courtney Bishop
I think the levers really. The levers really involve getting off to a good start. For one, when you have a successful design presentation, meeting in person with many samples, I do think in person is like the only way to have a presentation. Potentially. We would have. We've already had our tactile materiality face to face. Sit down. And that is the most important meeting that you can have is to get them in your studio, allow them to meet everybody who works for your firm and really see how you run your business. Because. And my business manager, Blair, she's been with me 10 years, she's always said she's seen a difference in the clients that walk through my door and see me in action and see my girls working on their projects. Between those and the ones who hired from afar but didn't feel the need to come in the dude in the studio doors, she sees a difference in the confidence level and I do too. You know, now it's almost imperative that we get them in the door within the first 30 days.
- [15:17]
Kaitlyn Peterson
What are you asking them to do at that first meeting in person?
- [15:21]
Courtney Bishop
You know, I. I'm not asking them to do much, but I am asking them to because we really want to show them, share with them. With that first meeting that we have thought through so much of the project details, that we're leading the teams, we're leading the contractor, we're leading the architectural firm. At this point, if the architect has asked us to be a part of the team, they're ready for us. Right. Even when it comes to landscape design, we're leading the creative narrative. So if they can understand that by the first meeting in the studio. And I think it's a really impressive meeting for anybody who comes in because we have so many, so much knowledge at this point and we have so many materials available to share with them and speak to that when they walk through the door, I think they just feel confident that we are capable of leading this narrative for them. And also when it comes back to the intuition that I feel like I have when I hear what they want out of it, I'm a marketing major, so I'm always. I'm almost branding the house for their size. Right. You know, with a little bit of the fashion, a little bit of the. It's all the things that I love. And. And I'm almost just like taking on a whole marketing campaign for the. Their best life, which makes me so excited. And I think they see that. See that enthusiasm in me. And so you Know, it kind of gets off to a really good start. And then from that point forward, I notice who's leading the communications. Typically, you know, one side who really wants to know more about the fabrics and the colors and the characters or finishes, and then the other side, who really wants to know, are we on time and what are we spending or how much have we spent to date?
- [17:09]
Kaitlyn Peterson
After that initial meeting, where do clients start to see and hear from your firm again? What are those early touch points that set you up for success?
- [17:19]
Courtney Bishop
So we typically offer our first Design presentation within 90 days of signing a contract.
- [17:25]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Okay.
- [17:25]
Courtney Bishop
And we are, again, at this point, we're taking mostly build homes. Right. So we have very little styling or interiors projects at this point. So there is a. There is already a construction schedule in place, which is my bible. That is where we set up our markers, and I'm kind of riding the construction schedule till the very end. And then we essentially, we write our proposals based on the construction schedule, and then we're carrying our markers. So the client is very aware that in the first 90 days, they're going to see an inspirational design presentation where we call that a look and feel presentation. And that will essentially bring them in for. And we'll have soft paint colors, dry wood finishes, honed stone, metals, fabrics, and wallpapers, and paint colors that coordinate with the style that we feel this home is breathing. And that all comes from, you know, many conversations with the clients on the front end, and then also the location of the home, the views that the home has, and essentially the architectural style. And so we're following that construction schedule after that initial look and feel. And everybody. That's why that important. That meeting is so important to do in person and important to do it on my turf, because we have all the. The things that we can pull. They say, you know, I really don't like that wood sample. That's too dark for me. Well, hold on one second. And I'm running back to my favorite stash and grabbing other materials. But. But after that, after that meeting, then we are hitting the markers for the initial benchmarks of the construction schedule. So we'll typically go straight into plumbing, and then we'll go into appliances because we want to build our cabinetry from the appliance schedule. Then we'll go into cabinetry design, of course, tile and stone lighting. We'll do all the RCPs and the decorative lighting selections. So those are really the next meetings that follow. And they. And they typically stay on course with when the contractor's needing finalization on these different areas.
- [19:40]
Kaitlyn Peterson
We're taking a quick break to remind you that it's not too late to apply to Ethan Allen's trade program. Trade members gain access to Ethan Allen's floor planner for creating gorgeous presentations that will stop your clients in their tracks, including floor plans, 3D images, and even 3D video previews of their proposed projects. An Ethan Allen concierge can recommend furniture frames, pull together samples, and help independent designers create presentations that will truly wow your clients. Put the tools of Ethan Allen trade to work for you. Apply today@ethanallen.com trade. That's ethanallen.com trade. You mentioned, you know, really leading this team that's bringing the house to fruition, which sticks out to me because actually the previous guest on this show said that she's sort of actively gotten away from that, right? She's like, I want to do the design, and I want the contractor to manage this job, and I don't want to have anything to do with construction. You're taking a different approach. Why is that? Why is it so essential to you to be sort of leading the charge with all of these different professionals?
- [20:51]
Courtney Bishop
That's interesting. You know, I can see her point for sure. I definitely understand. I think I don't want to miss any opportunities to be creative and to pull. Pull the details together. The construction lane, creatively, it's a different lane than mine. And the architects is a different lane. There's crossovers all day long, but they're really coming at it from a different point of passion. And my passion is definitely going to be more colorful and detailed in the full story, I think, than potentially the two others, because I'm taking them from the inception of, you know, what. What the dream is for this home. And I'm presenting that, and I'm taking it down to the first. Their first night of sleep. And that means every single detail in that home is really coming from that full perspective. I'm just coming at it differently. And the architect is, of course, building this insanely beautiful home, drawing it to scale and proport, engineering it all and creating the. The narrative for me to come inside and. And paint. And that's what I love to do.
- [22:13]
Kaitlyn Peterson
How do you bill for that? How does you know. You mentioned having that sort of monthly fee. How does that represent, I guess, the work you're doing? And how do you talk about that with your clients?
- [22:24]
Courtney Bishop
It's a complicated formula for me. Every project, I do it differently. We definitely have the design. The monthly design fee, which is our design fee across the board for the length of the project. So we'll take the construction schedule that the builder has presented before we propose, and we'll add three months to the front end and three months to the back end. And we take that timeline now, typically two to two and a half years. And we calculate essentially a typical fee for that time period. And that equates to about $10,000 a month, depending on the size of the project, anywhere between eight and 10 for a residential project right now, maybe 12. And for us, it's about being able to manage our expenses every month. And truly, that is what my peers are charging at the level of, you know, 20 years in the game. And I feel like their quality of work is similar to ours. And then, you know, we have the portion of FF&E. And I tell my clients to this day, and I realize when I tell them this, it's really a transparency thing for them, and it just alleviated a lot of stress on me, you know, and out of the gate, in the initial, you know, conversation before we're hired, I say, hey, guys, I'm going to be honest with you. Our design fee and the monthly breakdown of that, that pays for the cost to run this company. It pays the. It pays for my business to run successfully. I only take a certain amount of jobs. This is my fee. This is what keeps me stable and not having to worry about the bills. And then the FF and E, the product, our tenured relationships with our vendors across the globe and our reach, that is where, you know, I make my profitability. And I'm going to be totally honest with you. There's. There's not discounts offered with our FF and E. But I will tell you that you're not going to pay more than retail. And the sum of the two is as if you went and bought your entire home on your own, essentially, at retail pricing. Because what they're going to end up getting is a curated design. And they're going to get us as cbd, you know, leading the charge, leading the vision, handling all the meetings, and they're going to get a curated home at the highest level. And essentially, that's how I make my money. I make my money on FF&E and the relationships that I've built over 20 years. Granted, I'm probably looking at a little higher level than they could find in any stores, right? But if they were to pay retail for the product that I found, I'm always getting something. There's going to be about a 15 to 20% discount in my model. Then and there. So I try to save them about 12 to 15% on their total budget. And I think that that's a value that's of value. It's a lot of money when it comes down to the budget. And all of that has to do with not only saving them the time and the frustration and the headache and the coordination, but we're able to offer all the services along with it, which we've incorporated into the business, which is essentially all the logistics.
- [25:37]
Kaitlyn Peterson
One thing I really like, but I want to make sure I clarify, when you say you end up offering them, you know, a 12 to 15% savings, you're not promising that, Right? It's just sort of. That kind of works out this way.
- [25:49]
Courtney Bishop
Yes, exactly. I don't promise anything and I can't, you know, but I do let them know that in general, you know, there is about a 12 to 15% discount because I study the profitability on every single job, even if we give a little discount. My business model is that we try to make 20% on the. On the tire entire project. 20 to 30% would be nice. So when we really. When you think about a $2 million budget for FF&E, our 20. 20% is a nice profitability for us, and we feel really good on that. You know, if we can make 20% on the FF and E from our cost to the clients inside the client's door, including all the logistics going along with it, then that's a good project for us.
- [26:36]
Kaitlyn Peterson
I want to go back to that monthly fee for a second. Is that a steady fee throughout both design and kind of the ordering, procurement, installation that covers all of your team's work, or is it only representing the design piece of the project?
- [26:52]
Courtney Bishop
It's really covering the entire length of the project, but it is just the design fee. So the fee comes out, you know, every single month until we're. We close the doors and say goodbye. It covers the procurement for all FF and E. Okay, it does that time period? Yes. Always tell my clients that, you know, there's three phases to the project. We're heavily in design. On the beginning, that's going to be about six months on the front end. Clearly, design continues throughout the course of the job, you know, course the length of the project, even till the very, very end. But it's heavy on the front end. And then the middle phase two is construction management and procurement. And then the third phase, of course, is installation. And that's like two months of. Three months of really managing the subcontractors that we Bring in the wallpaper to, you know, when we. We usually manage those guys and the drapery installers and window treatments, et cetera. And then all the finishing touches, custom cabinetry, goods or pieces, millwork pieces that we're bringing in until the end. So the three phases makes a lot of sense to them. And that's why, you know, the fee is the fee. I never liked the hourly model, and I think it's my personality, because I couldn't keep track of it for myself. Mention, you know, seven other girls and. And making sure that they're capturing everything. I also just knew it would irritate the hell out of me to be billed for the drive to go get a pillow, essentially take a fabric to the seamstress to have the pillows made for the sofa. I know that would just. It wouldn't. I wouldn't necessarily not understand why, but I would just get irritated counting the hours and the dollars going out the door, and I'd probably want to micromanage them myself. And honestly, there is no doubt in my mind we're spending way more time. If you broke it down by the hour, they're probably getting, you know, a huge discount on time. But I don't mind that at all. Just to have the freedom to think about the project nonstop and not feel bad about it.
- [28:56]
Kaitlyn Peterson
I want to talk about Blair a little bit, because I know that hiring a business manager was a really important moment for you. Can you tell me a little bit about realizing you needed that person on your team, finding her, and how that started to shift things for you?
- [29:12]
Courtney Bishop
Oh, absolutely. Mama B. Mama B. Honestly, first and foremost, I just love having someone to talk about the business with, period. She's faith driven as I am, and I think that's one of the first things she said to me is, I drink and I cuss, but I. But I love Jesus. So, you know, it was. It was. It was a funny moment. She really doesn't drink and she doesn't cuss, but she said it, and it made us love her even more. I think she just was one of my biggest cheerleaders from the beginning, and I needed that to do all the other things that I wanted to do. I think personally, not only for the structuring of a company that you want to grow into a career with multiple employees, it was a must for me. But on top of all of those kind of time sucking things that we have to figure out as business owners, she saves me so much money because you're just. You're not thinking of up all you're not. You're not able to run all the numbers to test all the expenses. You're not able to really see the day to day that happens. And Blair sits in that office and catches every single mistake, every vendor that hasn't credited me for, you know, something that didn't come in right. Any chip in damaged item, any insurance claim. I mean, somebody needs to be checking your bills, ladies and gentlemen, or you're going to be wasting a lot of money. There's a lot happening, right? So she's the catch all for all of it. And she's also does it with a smile and she is truly passionate about the growth of this company and she's my biggest cheerleader. So, yes, I think everybody should have a mama bee.
- [30:55]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Can you tell me a little bit about the rest of your team and sort of how you built the structure of the employees that run the jobs?
- [31:03]
Courtney Bishop
Today we have lead designers that work with me. I work on every project that comes through the door and I lead the creative direction. And then with one other designer, we partner for the duration of the project. So I will introduce a lead designer to the clients about maybe three or four meetings in phone meetings or personal meetings in. I'll introduce the lead designer who will be managing their job. Essentially communication, meetings on site, coordinating all the details and also procurement and leading the design with me, really. I love collaboration and I could never be a solo interior design firm like my mom. I don't know how she did it, but she is ocd, so I kind of do now.
- [31:48]
Kaitlyn Peterson
How long were you solo before you made your first hire?
- [31:51]
Courtney Bishop
In the beginning, I really wasn't alone because I still had my partner and when I had from Tennessee, Lynn Barlow, and when I had her, we were working kind of. She was in Tennessee and I was in Charleston and we hired somebody together and she's still with me to this day. She's my number one.
- [32:08]
Kaitlyn Peterson
That's amazing.
- [32:10]
Courtney Bishop
Yes. Leigh Brown, she's kind of helped me mold the company and select what people we really want to work with. She kind of sits in all the interviews. And so right now we have three other designers essentially running other projects. Lee runs probably four or five, and then between the other three, there's another six or seven that they are all managing. And honestly, I kind of gauge who can handle what based on, you know, their ability, their trajectory of learning, and also their bandwidth at that time because, you know, the projects ebb and flow. So we may have a. We may be going into procurement in. On one home build and ramping. Up on another. And I can say, okay, you know, Ellie, you can take this job right now. If you need any support in the middle of it, we'll bring Paige in to help you. So I have to manage all of that. I still, to this day, if I am not involved in every kind of business decision like that, something doesn't work out. Right. Unfortunately, there's never really a break for, for us. Right. Right now we have three lead design, aside from Lee. So I'd say four, four lead designers. And then we have a team that handles social media. We have a brand strategist, we have Mama Blair in the back. And then we have album, which has its own little team, which is my, my little passion, favorite decision I've ever made kind of project. And there's a, there's a great group of women that, that help me with that.
- [33:52]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Are those lead designers or you know, the, the four designers on your team, are they like, are they doing their own orders? Like, are they managing their own projects solo? Okay, so there's not like a, a more junior level support staff?
- [34:05]
Courtney Bishop
No, that's a great question. There's, you know, I know a lot of design firms have procurement aid. They have a procurement gal or project specialist or something. Yeah, exactly. I chose not to do that because it's part of, I've got a three point process to that. We've got the lead designer who certainly creates the budget, the airtable spreadsheet for all the items going into the project. And then they also create the payment request for that item when it's time to order. That payment request then goes on to Risa who's my brand strategist slash coo. She is the kind of the cross checker to make sure there hasn't been any mathematical errors. And then it goes back to Blair who cuts the check. So I don't feel, I just feel like every lead designer needs to know how to run a budget and they also need to know how to order and specify things. I don't, I can't afford to have any communication errors. And so I think the lead, the lead designer should be responsible for all of those details.
- [35:10]
Kaitlyn Peterson
You're hiring experienced designers then?
- [35:12]
Courtney Bishop
Yes.
- [35:13]
Kaitlyn Peterson
What level of experience do you expect someone to have when they come into your firm?
- [35:18]
Courtney Bishop
Five to seven.
- [35:19]
Kaitlyn Peterson
How did that shift and that shift in the thinking about who you hire change the firm's output or when did that start to feel essential?
- [35:28]
Courtney Bishop
Great question. Level of clientele? Yeah, it is simple as that. I've always had wonderful clientele who've been supportive of kind of my way or creativity or had trust and faith in my creativity. But there's another level of bookkeeping and there's another level of professionalism in the field that. Not just in how you present yourself, but in truly how mature you are in managing your time and corresponding and keeping documents updated. At this point in my career, the people who come through this door for a career position, and that's all it is if you're. Don't. You know, I'm not hiring anybody who doesn't want a career. This is the top game, and it really takes that kind of dedication. So I found that really the level of understanding and maturity of that kind of Clientele comes with 5 to 7 years of experience in an architectural firm or an interior design firm.
- [36:37]
Kaitlyn Peterson
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- [37:17]
Courtney Bishop
Gosh, I'm gonna have to be personal about this, because I've really found that it was. For me personally, it has been losing some people that I love within the firm. Just the dynamic with all of it. I lost a good part of my team at once. It was a year of transition. To put it lightly.
- [37:40]
Kaitlyn Peterson
It was during COVID It was right after Covid.
- [37:43]
Courtney Bishop
Yep. It started with the remote working. A lot of our friends are working from home. Our peers are working from home. Why? You know, we want to work from home. You know, relationships within the firm have caused me, I think, just the most struggle because I take it as a personal. As a fam. They're family members. So getting over them, you know, the loss of. Of the. Those people has been hard for me personally.
- [38:11]
Kaitlyn Peterson
When you look back, does it make more sense to you than maybe the way that it sort of rocked you in the moment?
- [38:17]
Courtney Bishop
Yeah, absolutely. I think we know when you're dealing with different. Different people. Personalities and also ages, you know, I think authenticity and honesty will always prevail. Integrity. And unfortunately, in many of these positions, there was not honesty. I lost several of my girls to another design firm in town, another designer in town who did not approach me and say, do you know this is happening whatnot. So, you know, I think with those kinds of, of uncomfortable situations and the integrity of. I would just advise anybody who is. Is considering leaving a design firm. Honesty is always the best policy. And, and for me, I was such a fan of everybody in. Within this firm and I would have done anything. And still to this day I say we'll do anything to support your future career. I left my first design firm and I left with his best designer and said, see you later. We're going to go start our own business. Business. It's natural. It happens. But I think, you know, in, in life, the, the burn of not. Of not having honest relationships and those relationships that last, that, that you thought might last, you know, a lifetime to not have those relationships anymore when, you know, I take my. My job is my life. So they were part of my life. And now I don't. You know, it's like a little bit of a little tiny divorce. Eeks. Or a breakup. You know, it's heartbreak. Heartbreak has always been hard for me.
- [39:46]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Did it change the way you show up with the team you have now?
- [39:50]
Courtney Bishop
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we were. We were. I guess I think this might not be the answer that you were expecting, but I am not so much fun anymore. I am fun, believe me, in times and places. But I think I was a lot of fun a lot of the time. And I allowed a little bit more of a sister kind of silly internal dynamic. And I had to bump up my professional game as a, as a boss. I realized I had to kind of separate myself. I had let myself get a little too close. The respect. I was losing respect. Like the respect wasn't there for. It was. It was more an equal playing field. And you know, it made me realize that I had to kind of. I had to kind of look back and see what I've built and take ownership of what I've built on my own with the support of the women that I brought in and trained. And those women helped me as well. But I also, I know what I did with my own company.
- [40:57]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Does that feel different in a good way? Is there a wistfulness or kind of a sense of loss in that or is it empowering?
- [41:03]
Courtney Bishop
I think that it's definitely made me stronger and more confident in who I am as a, you know, as a boss.
- [41:13]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Yeah.
- [41:13]
Courtney Bishop
And, but, but honestly, it's really just cut out any gray area for me. You know, this is the way it has to be. You know, I didn't have non compete clause. I didn't have, you know, it just kind of like had us all look, had Blair and I and Lee, you know, who went, who. They went through it all with me. You know, I kept my, my executive team and we had to look at each other and say, okay, you know, this is not how we're gonna, this is not what's going to happen with the next cycle and let's do things differently and let's. And I would advise every business owner to take your employee handbook seriously, to take, you know, your, your requests, requirements of the job. Take them seriously. You know, if it's a 9 to 5, it's a 9 to 5. It's not a 9:30 to, to 5:15, it's, it's a 9 to 5 and, and if you, you know, want and expect your salaried position, you know, designers to answer your texts at home on the weekends and potentially work on projects for a tight deadline, then that's what you expect. That's part of the job. Just be very clear.
- [42:22]
Kaitlyn Peterson
I want to talk about album.
- [42:25]
Courtney Bishop
Yes.
- [42:26]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Because I know that that was both a deeply personal and very profound pivot for you. Can you talk a little bit about where it came from, what it is and how it's changed the aim for you?
- [42:38]
Courtney Bishop
I was hitting some big mile markers in my life with the 20 year of the business and hitting the big birthday that I won't mention, but the big one. And I just had, I decided that I was going to evaluate where, how far I've come and where I want to go. And the thought of retirement is just such a weird thought because if you do something you love, retirement is just a strange word. So it didn't really feel natural for me to think about a day to retire. Is that going to be in 10 years? Is that going to be in 20 years? Like retirement just doesn't make sense for me. And so I was doing all the soul searching of how I want to spend the next 20 years of my life life and where I want to do more of the things I love and less of the things that I don't find as fun or as rewarding or as inspiring. And so the thought of that brought me back to the three things I love, right? Music, design, fashion, essentially trends, being a marketing major, it's all about the things that I love. Wonderful artisans, art, the interiors world. And so I just had this vision of what if I could continue to travel and meet artisans from around the world and in domestically and internationally and tell their stories. I've been doing it for the last 20 years. And this is what I love to do. The most fun I have is meeting artists and really listening to, you know, why they are in the field that they are. And I do believe it's the highest form of faith that you can possibly have to be an artist. I feel like I'm living as an artist life by creating this, you know, creating homes for people. And so that was a huge moment for me to say, okay, Courtney, you are able to do this. You've come this far, You've. You've built the business, you have clientele that trust you, and so what? How do you want to spend the next 20 years? Well, I want to spend the next 20 years curating these wonderful sets to the music that I love and creating immersive experience for our followers to enjoy and get to know the artist. Even if they don't get, you know, even if they don't have a designer or get to work in this field or work with cbd. How can they have just a little bit of CBD without the full, you know, contractual agreement? And that's, that's when I made the decision that I am going to jump, jump head first into this new, immersive, crazy, e commerce, wonderful world for someone.
- [45:17]
Kaitlyn Peterson
Who hasn't experienced it yet. Can you explain the concept and what each of those albums has contained?
- [45:24]
Courtney Bishop
Album is a curated product grouping of things and artisans that I love. And I curate these products to a song. And once I kind of grasp onto the song or the artist that I want to curate, together we create a set around it, whether it's a interior set in our warehouse or it's outside in a sculptural piece of art that I've collaborated with with an artist. I create a set with hits inside. And These hits are 20 to 25 artists that have made a either a one of a kind piece for album specifically for me and for this project, or antique or vintage piece that I have found. And I curate these pieces together to a song. We film it live. And then for the amount of hits that we have within that set, those pieces are for sale for a specific drop, 20 to 25 days during that season. So we tell the story of each artist, one artist a day, and then all these artisan pieces are for sale for a limited time. And it's just been a wonderful way to. It's almost like a little magazine that I get to send out to the world. It's a little love letter that I get to send out to the world and they get to come along the journey with me and hopefully learn about the artist. That's truly the only goal for me is that I am able to share the artist stories with our followers and they hopefully learn something or get excited to learn more about the artist through the process.
- [47:02]
Kaitlyn Peterson
When's the next drop?
- [47:04]
Courtney Bishop
We don't know if it's going to be in the spring or in the summer. There was was an idea to actually have a live drop at market in April, which I think would be so much fun to actually do the drop at High Point Market and have everybody experience the album there. That, that is a designer because I, I just think that that personal interactive people come to the set all the time when we're filming and they're like, oh my God, this is incredible. I can't believe this is happening right under our nose. And so it would be really fun for me to be able to do it somewhere where people could actually visit the set and see it in action. So there's talk about that they're growing, they're getting bigger, they're getting more complicated. So it's taking more time and I always want to have enough time to think it through well enough to produce it.
- [47:58]
Kaitlyn Peterson
What does it take to sort of systematically or thoughtfully level up your clientele? You mentioned earlier that that was such a game changer for you, but what do you have to do sort of internally to make that possible? And how did you know? I think we talked about staffing, but how do you have to adjust your business to be ready and then how do you get those people to come.
- [48:22]
Courtney Bishop
Leveling up is a, it's a hard get. This was the hardest level up I've ever had. So I would just say make sure you have your processes in place. Make sure you have the project managers know how to work a budget or you have somebody on your team that is cross referencing. That's why we have this three step process on every single payment request and every single budget spreadsheet or airtable spreadsheet that is passed along, you know, through our, our bookkeeping and reconciling and our draw reconciliations. We go through extensive process of making sure the numbers are right and making sure they, that our balance, our budgets are balancing. And it's not just about the, the money side of it. It truly is about the finesse of how much time you're, you're presenting with the project in their minds. So communication at that high level, they want to talk to you. These, these people may, you know, be fine with a project manager or a lead designer, but, but they want to talk to you. They want to make sure you're involved on every single level. And I will never pass along a project at this level to a designer that my name's on the door.
- [49:35]
Kaitlyn Peterson
I know you said it's not just about the money, but do you have to talk about money differently? Do you have to build differently or kind of show what the design costs differently at this level?
- [49:46]
Courtney Bishop
I mean, I think I've always had a sensitivity to being very clear about the budget from the beginning because I know that as a businesswoman I would want to know what I'm in, what I'm going into before I start writing checks. I think that's why I never liked the hourly model for billing. Yeah. And I know that's why many people would just get infuriated at the end of the month because they had maybe eleven hundred dollar bill in November and they have a thirteen thousand dollars bill in December. I mean, what the heck. They can't plan, you can't plan. And if you're at that highest level of success and you're hiring a design firm at the highest, you know, level, then you expect them to know what the hell you're spending. They expect you to know and you want to make sure they know what you're spending. So what we tried to do and what we've been doing, you know, as long as I can remember is when we take the job on within that 90 day presentation we've get, we've presented the look and feel with the next 90 days to 120 days, we're presenting a budget that goes along with that look and feel. So it is a comprehensive budget. You know, we, we have typically a build budget and an FF&E budget and we're building both of them for the client and, and we're going to give them that number. Now I'm not short sighted in the fact that I know that, that that number is going to grow or it's going to change, but at least it's a document with every single line item that typically goes into this house. And we created that, that budget from the floor plan that we created ourselves. So we've taken the architectural plans, plan views, and we've made our furnishings, our furniture plan. And then we've laid our RCP on top of it. We've done our elevations or cabinetry elevations. So we essentially have the blueprint for the budget right here. And then we take those plans that happen within the first 120 days and we put those into a line item, budget it, and we've done it so many times now. You know, airtable is a great software for us. It. It works with QuickBooks, everybody can handle all their P. Ls, et cetera. But we. We have the Airtable spreadsheets, and we drop in, you know, each line item of every I. Every single item that goes into a home. And yes, there's big buckets at the bottom, like art and accessories and household essentials. There's big buckets for those. They get broken down along the length of the project into, you know, specifics by room. But. But in the beginning, we've got 85 grand for household essentials. We've got maybe $120,000 for art and accessories, and they can decide what they want to spend, but they're at least looking at that budget and saying, okay, I see it. We've both laid eyes on this together. I see the bottom line number, it's 1.6. I'm okay with that. And then we work from there, and there's no real surprises unless, you know, they end up going to Art Basel with me, and we buy something different that we weren't planning on buying, and it blew the budget. But they're in it. They're in the game with me.
- [52:55]
Kaitlyn Peterson
How do you land that client? Where do they come from if it's not, oh, this person landed in my lap.
- [53:01]
Courtney Bishop
You know, if you're able to present yourself in your communities, in your field, if you're able to present yourself with photography and placement in terms of panels or speaking or editorial pieces, I think that definitely helps. I mean, we were very, very lucky in the sense of people took notice of our work early on. I think that has to do with the look that we had coming out of the gate. Kind of a little bit more modern, organic edge to us when I moved to Charleston. But I definitely think that exposure had a lot to do with it. And then word of mouth really took on a whole new life. You know, it spreads like wildfire at that point.
- [53:51]
Kaitlyn Peterson
What were your goals when you launched your firm, and what does success look like for you today?
- [53:58]
Courtney Bishop
The goals when I launched my firm were to immerse myself in a creative way that I was never able to do until that time in my life. I just knew if. If I was going to do this, I was going to put my heart and soul into it. And I really just wanted to make a living being creative. And so that was my goal. How can I expand? And that's why I'm always trying to figure out new revenue streams and new ways to, you know, continue to sustain a lifestyle that grows because I'm so lucky, I'm so lucky that I was able to do it specifically now that I have a fabric line with Holland and Sherry and a few other collaborative endeavors coming out this year that you will certainly hear about soon. I mean, being able to collaborate on textiles, it's a dream come true for me. It is something that I always, it just takes me right back into the fashion thing, you know, of all that second, second career opportunity that I wanted. But I knew I probably couldn't get that far in Tennessee at that time. It's given me that other life. And now I get with album, I get to go into the music world again. So I think just knowing how sacred it is to be in a space where I get to be creative and be amongst creatives, it is a true joy. And that's the goal, is to never take it for granted. And that's why I think I work so hard. I honestly just enjoy making people happy and believing in what we're doing. That's really how I go home every night. Is a God, Did I do a good job? Are they happy?
- [55:41]
Kaitlyn Peterson
That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. Before you go, if you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, more great podcasts, check out new products, or browse job openings, head on over to businessofhome.com if you haven't note for the show or a story of your own to share, I'd love to hear from you and you can email me at trade tales businessofhome.com finally, if you're enjoying the podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. Trade Tales is produced by me, Caitlyn Peterson with Fred Nicholas and Caroline Burke. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda. Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you again in two weeks.