Michel Smith Boyd on why a flat fee lets him focus on creativity [Rebroadcast]

Summary

Trade Tales Podcast Summary: Michel Smith Boyd on Why a Flat Fee Lets Him Focus on Creativity [Rebroadcast]

Podcast Information

• Title: Trade Tales
• Host: Kaitlyn Petersen, Editor-in-Chief of Business of Home
• Guest: Michel Smith Boyd, Renowned Interior Designer
• Episode Title: Michel Smith Boyd on Why a Flat Fee Lets Him Focus on Creativity [Rebroadcast]
• Release Date: January 15, 2025

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Introduction to Michel Smith Boyd's Journey

Early Inspirations and Career Shifts

Michel Smith Boyd begins the conversation by tracing his early inspirations back to his mother, a "design junkie" who frequently changed their home's decor. This environment fostered Michel's initial love for creativity and design.

"I immediately think about my mom because I think she was a design junkie... So maybe that was the beginning of it."
— Michel Smith Boyd [02:12]

Michel's career path was anything but linear. He transitioned from a nursing program to beauty school, acting classes, and modeling, seeking the right fit until a pivotal moment shifted his trajectory toward interior design.

"After that experience with the designer, we, I think, got enrolled in school inside of a year... It felt so exciting. Like there was this ball of energy inside."
— Michel Smith Boyd [03:22]

Establishing His Interior Design Business

Building a Clientele Through Networking

Upon graduating from the Art Institute of Atlanta, Michel faced the common fears of starting anew in a creative field. Despite these anxieties, he quickly began building his clientele, leveraging networking opportunities at charity events, art shows, and auctions.

"The networking for me was huge. I didn't want a website, I didn't want cards. I wanted to be like this best kept secret."
— Michel Smith Boyd [05:51]

His breakthrough came when he secured a project designing a party for a marketing executive, which catapulted him into a circle of high-profile clients, including doctors and attorneys.

Transitioning to a Flat Fee Model

Challenges with Traditional Billing

In the early stages, Michel struggled with traditional billing methods, such as charging a percentage over budget or hourly rates, which often led to financial strain and excessive time spent on non-creative tasks.

"I was grossly taken advantage of because I... just throw that in there. Like it was just crazy."
— Michel Smith Boyd [07:36]

Adopting the Flat Fee Approach

Realizing the inefficiency of these models, Michel transitioned to a flat fee structure. This shift allowed him to streamline his billing process, reduce financial stress, and allocate more time to creative endeavors.

"We tore apart projects and, like, down to the penny... simplifying what we did as far as billing and so forth allowed me more time to be creative."
— Michel Smith Boyd [09:48]

However, the pandemic introduced new challenges, such as unpredictable shipping delays, which made setting fixed timelines more complex. Michel continues to refine this model to adapt to evolving circumstances.

Balancing Business Growth and Brand Development

Choosing Brand Over Firm Expansion

Michel faced a critical decision: grow his interior design firm by hiring more designers or focus on building his personal brand through product development and media presence. Ultimately, he chose the latter, driven by a desire to contribute creatively on a broader scale.

"I leaned more to the latter. So it really became really important that I streamlined as much as I possibly could on the client side."
— Michel Smith Boyd [08:26]

Fear of Scaling and Maintaining Authenticity

Despite recognizing the necessity to staff up, Michel grappled with the fear of losing his personal touch and authenticity. This hesitation led him to initially decline opportunities like participating in design competitions.

"The fear piece... I traded one for the other because... becoming a more public person or a more public designer is beyond what I could have ever expected."
— Michel Smith Boyd [16:02]

Evolving Design Philosophy: From Maximalism to Minimalism

Self-Reflection and Design Refinement

Michel reflects on his past work, acknowledging tendencies toward overcompensation and maximalism. Through self-reflection and client interactions, he has shifted towards a more balanced approach that incorporates both positive and negative space.

"I was writing in my notes last night... that's overcompensating... becoming a better and better editor is probably the thing I'm most grateful for."
— Michel Smith Boyd [17:11]

Implementing Minimalist Principles

In his current projects, Michel embraces minimalism, ensuring that each design element serves a purpose without overwhelming the space. This approach not only enhances aesthetic appeal but also respects the homeowner's intelligence and preferences.

"I just incorporate into the conversation... I have to leave room for them to be creative too."
— Michel Smith Boyd [19:21]

Defining Luxury in Interior Design

Philosophy of Accessible Luxury

Michel's concept of luxury centers on personalization and accessibility. He believes that luxury should be defined by the client, whether through experiences or specific design elements that evoke desired moods.

"You get to control that narrative... My job is to create a mood that will evoke said experience."
— Michel Smith Boyd [31:10]

Manifesting Luxury Through Practice and Education

Michel actively teaches clients and peers about his definition of luxury, aiming to empower them to appreciate and define it on their own terms. This philosophy is gradually being integrated into his television show and other media ventures.

"It's my practice and philosophy... it's going to evolve into something right now."
— Michel Smith Boyd [33:01]

Success and Personal Fulfillment

Redefining Success as an Ongoing Journey

For Michel, success is not a fixed destination but a continuous journey marked by milestones and the ability to impact others positively. He values the ability to support his lifestyle while feeling fulfilled and responsible with his talents.

"I think that for me... there won't be any landing pad. I think there are these, you know, celebrations along the way."
— Michel Smith Boyd [30:22]

Balancing Personal Ambitions with Professional Responsibilities

Michel acknowledges his appreciation for financial success and material comforts but emphasizes that true fulfillment comes from serving others and enriching their lives through design.

"But I feel like being able to support those crazy habits are truly a result of... my desire to be so perfect."
— Michel Smith Boyd [31:35]

Conclusion and Forward Look

Michel Smith Boyd's journey illustrates the delicate balance between maintaining creative integrity and adapting business practices to sustain and grow a design career. His shift to a flat fee model and focus on personal branding have enabled him to prioritize creativity while navigating the complexities of the interior design industry.

"I can see it so clearly, guess what? It's changing again."
— Michel Smith Boyd [13:45]

As Michel continues to evolve, his commitment to redefining luxury and fostering authentic client relationships positions him as a thoughtful leader in the world of interior design.

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Notable Quotes

• "I was grossly taken advantage of because I... just throw that in there. Like it was just crazy."
  — Michel Smith Boyd [07:36]

• "I wish I knew that whatever I thought... I could still be the shit and not get it all right."
  — Michel Smith Boyd [28:35]

• "I want to create a mood that will evoke said experience... educating people on what luxury actually is."
  — Michel Smith Boyd [31:49]

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This summary encapsulates the essence of Michel Smith Boyd's insights on nurturing creativity through strategic business practices, his evolving design philosophy, and his vision of success in the interior design industry.

Transcript

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I mean, we're paid help. We're help. You know what I mean? We're providing a service. There always has to be some humility there, you know, to the craft, you know, always being a student and learning as much as possible to new experiences and personalities because, you know, we cannot function if it weren't for an entire village of people around us. And then to client interaction.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Hi, I'm Kaitlyn Peterson, the editor in chief of business of welcome to Trade Tales. As we wrap up the sixth season of the show, we're taking a break this month to dream up even more great stories for you about building a better design business. In case you missed it in our last episode, I've got some pretty exciting news. In March, we're launching a companion show called Ask Us Anything. You can expect even more candid discussions about creative entrepreneurship every other week with this new advice show where I'll be answering a designer's question on air with the help of some past Trade Tales guests. And that's where I'm hoping you can help us out. I know you've got pressing business questions, and I'd love to help you get them answered. Maybe it's about getting fees right, or cash flow or client management or goal setting, growing a team or getting to the next level. No matter what your question is, we'll keep it anonymous. You can start the conversation by sending me an email@trade talesusofhome.com that's Trade TalesBusinessOfHome.com in the meantime, I've picked out one of my favorite episodes from the show's archive to share with you today. It's my conversation from 2021 with Atlanta designer Michelle Smith Boyd, where we talked about how a flat fee lets him focus on creativity. And if you've ever grappled with what kind of growth is right for your firm, you won't want to miss Michelle's perspective on navigating the fork in the road between growing his firm and growing his brand. We'll be back with an exciting batch of new episodes starting in two weeks, but for now, enjoy the show.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I immediately think about my mom because I think she was a design junkie, and I remember her changing things really often. And new furniture was a big occasion, and we always had freedom to change our rooms and paint like that. It was fun to me because I didn't really have much other freedom to be creative because it was so important to them that, you know, I studied really hard and did well in school. But in my room, I could choose my Paint, color. I would move the furniture around. You know, I would change the curtains. I liked one set of sheets a little bit better than the other one. You know, all those things. So maybe that was the beginning of it, because as soon as I got my first apartment, oh, my God, my dorm room in college was obscene. I was like, oh, my God, I have freedom to do whatever.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

That's Michelle Smith Boyd. His early career took him from a nursing program to beauty school, acting classes, modeling, and everywhere in between.

[Unknown]

Only nothing seemed quite right.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Then Michelle and his partner at the time hired an interior designer for their shared apartment. After just a glimpse of the design process, Michel decided to throw all of his prior career plans out the window.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

After that experience with the designer, we, I think, got enrolled in school inside of a year. I literally didn't realize that interior design was a thing or interior designers, you know, existed. And, you know, meeting John, that was a designer's name, you know, exposed me to so much. I was really enamored with what he was doing and really fascinated. Once he took me to the D and D building, and I saw all these showrooms and realized that this is legitimate. It felt so exciting. Like there was this ball of energy inside, like, you know, in your chest, you feel really full, and you can't catch your breath. It was. It was that it. It was that. Much to my, you know, excitement and surprise, I discovered what I was supposed to be doing.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Michelle enrolled at the Art Institute of Atlanta. And even though he was a student again, he didn't see why that should stop him from hitting the ground running with his design career.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Well, when I graduated from design school, I was already working. I was a little bit paranoid. I went back when I was 27. So when I graduated, I was about 31. And as excited as I was to discover, oh, my God, interior design is my life. I was afraid that I was behind the eight ball. So I started building a clientele. In sophomore year, when I graduated school, I had already started the business.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Soon enough, Michelle landed a gig designing a party for a marketing executive. An extravagant night that led to a flurry of new clients with projects that would ultimately help him establish his design business.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

You know what happens in a circle where everyone trusts everybody else? You know, if one person gives a nod, then it's okay. And I was the new okay. I was the new okay. I was initiated into this group. She was a marketing exec. There are probably four or five attorneys. There were about 20 doctors. So from physician to physician, like, I just kept moving through the Circles in Atlanta. And so I attended the charity events they attended. I went to the. The art shows and auctions they went to. And so I met more and more people. The networking for me was huge. It was huge. I didn't want a website, I didn't want cards. I didn't want anything. I wanted to be like this, best kept secret. And I don't even know when that shifted because now I feel like a talking head most of the time.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

I wanted to talk to Michelle about escaping the perfectionist trap, how pivoting to a flat fee freed up his creativity and navigating the fork in the road between growing his firm and growing his brand.

[Unknown]

When you look back to where you were then at that party and in those first jobs, what are some of the moments when you had to make a change in the business itself?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Oh, gosh, in the beginning, there were tons of changes. Right. I think one of the biggest question marks in trial and error kind of things was how to charge. And so that evolved a couple of times.

[Unknown]

You know, how did you bill for those early jobs for the woman you threw the party for or some of her friends?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I was.

[Unknown]

That laugh says a lot.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I was grossly taken advantage of because I. Oh, my God, I worked so hard. I worked so hard. I was doing a percentage over budget at the time, but I didn't. They understand the value of what I was actually delivering. I just know that I needed to knock it out of the park. I needed to keep impressing people and exceeding expectations. So I'll be honest, I was spending most of the money that I was making on the event, 100% on the events and the interiors, because I was like, oh, no, I can't compromise what I want. She's out of budget. But that's okay. You know what? I'll just throw that in there. Like it was just crazy. And that's what was missing. Notoriously creative and also notoriously crappy at managing that business partner.

[Unknown]

When did that start to change?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

That started to change probably a couple years into the game. And I'll be honest with you, it's still evolving. We spoke recently and talked about how I don't have money conversations with clients anymore, and we're doing flat fee. And I am still experimenting with that. And the pandemic has made it even tougher, you know, to make that work because, you know, setting a period of, you know, a completion date means absolutely nothing with the way things are shipping now. So it's tough to decide, you know, what the monthly retainer is if there's no definite defined timeline, I want to.

[Unknown]

Say, and for anyone listening who hasn't had the opportunity to read that story, which one they should. But go back and tell me a little bit about, you know, coming to the conclusion that you needed to start charging differently.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

We just were having. Caitlin, we were having so many problems keeping track of hours. There is Designer alive that is being paid for every hour that we're working. That's just not possible and it's impossible to keep track of. So I knew that I was losing money that way, and I didn't want to tack on things, you know, based on theory. So between that keeping up with markups and all that stuff, we just decided it wasn't. It wasn't worth it anymore. It was incredibly stressful. And the idea of growing my business, you know, it was just kind of. I was kind of conflicted with that. You know, did I want to grow into a larger firm and add more designers and, you know, be responsible all these people, or was I going to move to the branding side? Was I going to move to, you know, licensed collections and building my own things? And I leaned more to the latter. So it really became really important that I streamlined as much as I possibly could on the client side. And that initiated me saying, holy, let's. Let's cut down on some of this, you know, stress so we can. I can still have something left to dedicate to these companies that are trusting me as a brand ambassador.

[Unknown]

What happened when you switched to a flat fee with your clients, but also when you looked at your business?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Well, first of all, we did a lot of research, right? We tore apart projects and, like, down to the penny. And the difference between the flat fee, the. That we came up with versus the hourly was within a couple hundred dollars. And, you know, for as long as our project span that, you know, that it becomes really insignificant. So I had to go a little bit higher in the percentage than I wanted to because the number sounds high. You know, 30% sounds expensive. You know, once we really broke it down and could explain to the client that, you know, you accepting this 30% and paying this 30% over the cost of the budget that you intend to spend divided by this many months equals this as a retainer monthly. But you save so much. Having original receipts and having no markup, you're still saving a ton of money. And, you know, simplifying what we did as far as billing and so forth allowed me more time to be creative.

[Unknown]

You mentioned that you, instead of growing the firm, you're kind of growing, you're looking for opportunities in product, in television, in sort of developing your brand. What was the push pull for you between those two opportunities for growth?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I don't know. That's a really good question. And I shouldn't say I don't know as much as I should say that I'm not sure because I've considered this question myself. And just in my personal life, just in self work and therapy and so forth and so on, in the pursuit of being my most authentic self, you know, just asking, why did you want to become public when you were so dead set against it? You know, why did no one think that now that you're public, that you should have a voice that everybody should hear and everybody should see what you do and buy your products and so forth. And I know for sure that one part of it was me wanting to, you know, I feel so excited about design and so grateful to have discovered it that I wanted to contribute to it, to be perfectly honest. I want to design great products that could be sold and so forth. And I knew that wherever I landed, I needed to be the best. Like, I needed to be really amazing in whatever I did. I mean, and that's like, that is from being a kid, you know, always in pursuit of excellence and the, you know, be the most articulate, the most versed, the most passionate, the most communicative, the most humble. All those things that, you know, I knew I needed to be with my clients in order to excel with them. There's not an area of my life that it does not penetrate. And when it came to this industry, and that was a part of me feeling behind, like, okay, I want to hustle. I, I admire Thomas, I admire Vincent Wolf, I admire Tom Ford, look what he did in his industry and so forth and so on. The people that were my idols, you know, the Martha Stewarts, they didn't wait. Nobody's handing out those kind of dreams, you know what I mean? I needed to hustle. And that's the side I decided to go with, the branding side. I think mostly based on me wanting to contribute back, but also who and what inspired me, you know, voices in my head or the paths that I was following. I was afraid that my aesthetic would look just like Worstler because. Or just like Wolf. I was so obsessed with them and had studied those books, those first books, you know, cover to cover in the beginning of my design career that I was afraid that I was going to be just a big old copycat when I graduated. But, you know, luckily, Even the things that influenced me then, it didn't happen that way. I had a stamp from the very beginning. But now, now for sure, I can see it. And. And now that I can see it so clearly, guess what? It's changing again.

[Unknown]

You. You made a conscious choice, I feel like, to not staff up, to not take every job, to not grow in that direction. What made you kind of say no to that, at least for now?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Well, what's crazy is that right now I'm having to retrofit. I don't. What I'm. Yeah. What I've learned in life is that you don't get to skip steps. You're going to be forced to go back at some point. And right now I am going back to address the staffing because I cannot effectively be. Now I've moved into a different space with the branding and television and so forth and so on, and I can't manage the clients the way that I did before. So staffing has become more important than other ever. Because not only do I have to be creative on the other side of what I'm doing from client work, I have to be actually fully present, you know, in front of a camera, hoping that I'm communicating what I want to or what I need to to viewers through a screen as opposed to standing in front of them where I'm tangible. But I don't know, I thought that if I staffed up Caitlin, that I would lose. I don't know if I should say authenticity, but maybe that thumbprint would disappear because it'd get watered down.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

And I think I was also just afraid of growing too big. The idea of being responsible for paying other people freaks me out still. That is something I don't know that I'll ever fully get used to. And I had an incredible right hand person in the office. His name is Jason and he works for himself now. But, you know, between the two of us, there was really nothing we couldn't do. And then, you know, we got someone to manage the office and life was golden until I decided, no. You know what's crazy is that I turned down like Design Star and all those shows, like three times. I was like, oh, I'm not a competition person. I can't do that. There's no way. And you know, every insecurity comes to the forefront when it comes to the idea of being in front of that many people. And I'm thinking like, somebody's got to go home first. Doesn't mean that person isn't talented. They just had a bad A bad.

[Unknown]

Week, you know what I mean?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Totally. I can't do that. But, yeah, I mean, I think the one word answer of why I didn't staff up then is probably fear. But I traded one for the other because, you know, the vulnerability involved in becoming a more public person or a more public designer is beyond what I could have ever expected in terms of.

[Unknown]

The fear piece or in terms of.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I think if I knew how much vulnerability it required for me to say, I want to be published, I want to be in books, I want to be on tv, I want to be in magazines, I want to be on panels. I'm opening myself up to that many more critics, you know what I mean? To that many more supporters. But also, if you believe all the good stuff, then you got to believe the bad stuff, too. So it was really important for me to still hear my own voice and still push myself as a designer and be objective about my work. The way I feel about some of the work that I see now, I'm like, I read the crap out of myself. The hell are you overcompensating so hard for? What the. What, you know, when you look at.

[Unknown]

Past work, you mean.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Yeah, when I looked at some of my past work, I was writing in my notes last night about a topic related. Just the idea of consistently and consciously adding items to a room to continue your narrative, hoping that, you know, well, if the viewer or if the homeowner doesn't get it here, they'll understand it because of this object. And what about that object? This is definitely luxury, you know, and the short answer is that's overcompensating. And it's also underestimating the design intelligence of the homeowner, you know, of the person seeing your space. If it's editorial, yeah, I thought I needed to give more and more and more and more and more, and that's not. That's not the case. And coming to that realization and becoming a better and better editor is probably the thing I'm most grateful for in my career. I want to be able to stand by my work, and I'm proud of what I did then. Yes. But I can see where. Where the opportunity was, and. And now I can see. And I'm extra proud of the growth from that point.

[Unknown]

Did you wake up one morning and think, wait, I might be a minimalist?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Wait, oh, my God, here's another one. Here's another Deja Vu, the first design book I ever bought. Practically minimal. I was obsessed with this book. But what I didn't realize is I don't know a human that lives that way.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

And it. It's stunning editorial, but it's not real life. And I am redesigning my office right now for this next season show. And I had a design associate here last night, and we're walking through, and I want to hear his ideas and see if they countered mine or elevated mine. And he was like, are you becoming a minimalist? Like. Like, he looked at me like a stunk. Like, what's wrong with you? And I was like, listen, go with it. You have to go with it. While, you know, we get to be creative and create spaces for other people, I have to leave room for them to be creative too.

[Unknown]

What does that mean to you?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Well, I'd never thought about design that way. I thought I needed to do it all for them, and the more I did for them, the more of a luxury that I was actually providing, the more indispensable I was becoming. But now I just incorporate into the conversation, to be perfectly honest with you, and getting an understanding of how much negative space and how much positive space needs to be left in each of the rooms in their home based on what's happening in that space is interesting, though, Caitlin. Thinking about design from that point is as much what's there as it is what's not there. I still like my stuff. Just got to figure out how to tell my stories with less stuff.

[Unknown]

How do you manifest that change in your client work?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

The interiors that have inspired me for years that I have in my saved files on Instagram and, you know, in. In my notes in my phone are mostly minimalist. And as much as I like those rooms, I know that they aren't me. So I'm going to have more items. And in that space, I feel. I feel confident that I'm not completely minimalist, but no longer Tony Duquette. Maximalism, but yeah. And my clients are indeed willing to go along for the ride. I mean, because I talk to them the way that I'm speaking with you. I mean, I present myself different than I did 12 years ago. And so I think clients expect something a little bit different about what they're going to get on the interior based on how I dress my exterior. A lot of those images are still circulating, but I can't wait to engulf my social platforms with the new ones after some of these published. I'm hoping that then I guess that's actually really vulnerable too, because I'm hoping that the people that liked my work in the past will enjoy it. But as vulnerable as it is. I don't think I could have not evolved. I don't think I could have denied evolution because it was just necessary. I just didn't see myself in that anymore. The other way, did you feel kind.

[Unknown]

Of trapped or like you couldn't grow or that there wasn't room to evolve?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Oh, yeah. And I felt that multiple times in multiple spaces in my career, feeling trapped. I'm, I'm talking myself out of it right now. You know, I told you I moved in inside of a friend circle. You know, a professional and personal friends.

[Unknown]

They're all coming to you saying, I love what you did at so and so's house. And you're kind of scratching your head like, well, I don't do that anymore.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Exactly right. And there's only many things in this particular category available right now and to us in this price point that you will like. You know what I mean? And typically like what's familiar and what we've seen. And I, I knew this for sure. I did not want to have a formula that was just repeated, having a signature and having some consistencies. I accept that. But the idea of giving everyone at the time it was powder blue and chocolate brown, or oranges and chocolate brown, and then everybody got grays and, you know, the exact same tones. I just couldn't do that. And I, I, I felt like I was being dishonest if I did. Coming out of that space, actually incorporating other people into the firm other than my right hand and I. And having them have client interaction, giving them, giving away building presentations or even some of the resourcing. Oh, my God.

[Unknown]

What did it take for you to start to trust that was a formula.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

That could work when I couldn't deliver, I had to come to a point where I was going to crash and burn before I did that, because there came a time that I realized that I can't bill clients the same for my talent and my design skill set that I can for returning an item and sitting in traffic for two hours. You know what I mean? Right. It's a terrible business model. It doesn't make sense. It's not a good use of my time. I could take more clients if I had less responsibility. And, you know, it was me having, again, this need and, and desire to be so perfect, all because I want to control this one thing. I'll only make this amount of money forever. I'll only be able to manage two or three clients forever. Once I realized that I couldn't scale myself, you know, that says get some people in Here I want to talk.

[Unknown]

A little bit about some of the avenues that you started to grow sort of outside of your core design business. The product, the television. When did you start to get the itch to do those things? And how did you start to move in that direction? At the beginning, Caitlin.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

It all began with show houses. The only reason anyone ever got to see my work because, remember, I didn't have a website.

[Unknown]

You were the best kept secret, allegedly.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

It was show houses. I remember doing the very first one, and then the second one was massive for me. I did a holiday house first and I did a kids. I did a baby's room. I did a nursery. But then my next time out, I got to design an entire. An entire condominium for Atlanta Homes and Lifestyle magazine at the W. The penthouses at the W. And incredible opportunity for someone who'd only done one show house before they only five designers in the city. And I think my career began to change after that. That was my first cover. But, you know, there was this buzz about television and, you know, HGTV or reality shows, you know, it started to become a little bit bigger and more prominent. And I kept getting calls, I guess, when people were scouting Atlanta, and I guess I always felt like I wanted to share somehow, man, you know what I mean? If it was the modeling side or if it was the acting side, maybe there was some kind of self importance in there. I don't know, man. Like what, what. What would this need to be creative and public? And I didn't imagine that interior design would answer both of those questions for me. Are both of those itches, you know what I mean? Yeah. That is so funny. Look at us having therapy right here.

[Unknown]

Say, welcome to design therapy. We need to rename this show.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

It's a really recurring theme.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

No, I never really considered that design would answer both of those questions. And how lucky am I right?

[Unknown]

Tell me about the show. What was right about this one?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Well, the first one was buying it blind. And I thought that that made sense because it was a format that had been tried and true in other countries. I was going to be working with two other experts. I was still going to have control over what the design looked like because I was actually doing the work and I didn't have the responsibility of carrying an entire show because there were two other personalities in addition to the homeowners. And it was on a Bravo network, and I thought that network felt a little bit more like my client. Somehow I knew that it was going to be my first foray in television. I Didn't believe that it was going to be the last one, and that's exactly what it was. The new show is with hgtv, and my client is not quite the same as the network's client, but this show gives me an opportunity to share with more people. You know, our client base is very small percentage of the population. Right. And more of us have to figure out hacks to get what we want, as opposed to spend the actual money for the real deal or full price. So this show is called Lux4Less. So the first part is definitely me, but I'm on an adventure to discover just how many of these luxuries I can get for less money in every episode, not compromise my aesthetic. Again, in this show, you know, all design finals say is me, and I get to do all of the work. And I'm saying get to, because I'm trying to convince myself that I'm not, but I get to do all of the work myself. But, yeah, man, really cool. And I'm excited about this opportunity because this time, this is my show. They call, they said, we have a concept. You're the only person we want. And that felt good. And so I was immediately vested, and I was able to cast two of my favorite humans, two of my favorite creatives. And so, again, I don't have to carry an entire show or be this massive personality. I get to be my nice, quiet self and. And rely, you know, on my. My friends and colleagues to. To help my balance the show out.

[Unknown]

What is the one thing you know now that you wish you had known when you started your firm?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Oh, man. Oh, God. Because I was having a conversation similar recently, and, you know, I could tell you a hundred things about hiring people or, you know, making sure you have an accountant, and da, da, da. You know, you've heard all that before. What I wish I knew then is that I wish I knew that I was the. I wish I knew that. I wish I knew that whatever I thought, as much as I was, I felt, I feel now was overcompensating and da, da, da, da. I wish I knew that whatever, wherever I was at the time, and, you know, my capacity for design and understanding and communicating it, all those things. I wish I knew that I was still the shit. I wish I was much more confident. I wish I was. I wish I was like. I wish I allowed myself to make more mistakes and to be more transparent with people who were more senior. I wish that I knew that I could still be the shit and not get it all right. Again, there Are no skipping steps, Caitlin. You know, there's so much opportunity in that. And yeah, yeah. You know, again, that's just me wanting to be the best and perfectionism. That perfectionism. And coupled with, though the idea of being this brown face, you know, that's getting all its attention and having all these opportunities. I'm not just representing me and my family back in Tyndale, Louisiana. I'm actually representing a larger family. You know, my African American design family or my black design family. And that has always been incredibly important to me too.

[Unknown]

What does success look like to you?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I don't know that it's a destination. I think that for me, and I don't think, period, but definitely not for me, there won't be any landing pad. I think it. There are these, you know, celebrations along the way. And I think having as many of those as possible is success. Or using it to affect as many people as possible, to enrich and add as much value as possible. I feel like that's success. I feel like I am answering my calling. I'm being responsible with my gift. I found a way to serve and feel fulfilled, like, be happy with how I, you know, how I spent my life and what I do with my time.

[Unknown]

Oh, my gosh, that's beautiful.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Well, let me ruin it. No, because I also like money. I have very expensive taste. I drive an expensive car. My house costs too much, I shop way too much, and I like great restaurants. All those things are also true. But I feel like being able to support those crazy habits are truly a result of. When I say first 100%, that's amazing.

[Unknown]

You know, you have this. This idea of how to. Luxury is such a big piece of the brand you have built. Where does that come from and how. What does that mean to you and how does that manifest hotter luxury, I.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Feel like, is my baby. And it is the most accurate depiction of what I believe I've been doing. Honestly, it really is born gaitlyn of me being a new designer, new to discovering this passion and, you know, so grossly excited about it. Meeting people who had never worked with a designer before. The community that I come from, you know, it feels like I have to convince people that they actually deserve luxury. And not only that they deserve it, they get to define it. Right? You get to control that narrative. Your luxury may not be, you know, found in this sofa or achieved with this particular object. It could be an experience. And so my job is to create a mood that will evoke said experience. You know, educating people on what luxury Actually is teaching them that they deserve it and that they get to define it. That's how to luxury. That is what I believe will drive everything that I do for the rest of my career.

[Unknown]

Where all does that appear and how are you really using that and putting that out into the world?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

It feels like more of a practice right now and a hashtag. But I feel like it's realized with my own personal clients, definitely with my design colleagues. But it'll definitely become more realized with the show. From that point though, I have been toying with the ideas and I have then I've seen amount of notes that go with a course that would be attached to it. At first the course was just about design and just about luxury and in my POV and my experiences. But you know, with the, I don't know, creating that hashtag, it answers so much of it. I was writing about it and didn't realize it, I guess. So yeah, I think that it's going to evolve into something right now. But right now it's. It's my practice and philosophy.

[Unknown]

What happens when you teach someone, when you show someone what luxury is for the first time?

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Oh man, that's incredible. I mean that, you know, overwhelming sense of euphoria. I'm literally witnessing that happen with clients and the permission, man, the permission to actually do something nice for themselves, you know, seeing them or witness witnessing that happen or that manifestation take place or that realization taking place is like, wow, this is crazy. You know, to get to be a part of that. I might be a gateway to into your crazy spending but helping you realize your best self your most a field life at home.

[Unknown]

I love that.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

Michelle Boyd, the gateway drug.

[Unknown]

I want in. Thank you so much for being here. This has been incredible.

[Michelle Smith Boyd]

I've had fun with you.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

That's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. Before you go, if you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, hear more great podcasts, check out new products or browse job openings. Head on over to businessofhome.com if you.

[Unknown]

Have a note for the show or.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

A story of your own to share, I'd love to hear from you and you can email [e-mail] finally, if you're enjoying the podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show. Trade Tales is produced by me, Kaitlin.

[Unknown]

Peterson and Fred Nicholas. This episode was edited by Caroline Burke and Michael Castaneda.

[Kaitlyn Peterson]

Our theme music is by Kyle Scott Wilson. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you in two weeks.