← Translating ADHD
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- [00:02]
A
Hi, I'm Ash. And I'm Dusty and this is Translating ADHD Listeners. As a reminder, I am doing a live coaching Demo on Tuesday, November 18th at 8:00pm Eastern. This is for our Patreon subscribers. A link will be posted in the Discord and on the Patreon page. If you're not currently a subscriber but you would like to attend, for five bucks a month you can join the Patreon, visit the website translating ADHD.com and click on the Patreon tab. And your five bucks a month gives you access to our podcast Discord server and to our monthly live events.
- [00:40]
B
And just a reminder everyone, I have another coaching group coming up starting in January of 2026. There are limited spots available. The group runs from January through to the end of April. It's enough a really affordable way to try out ADHD coaching. You get access to the ADHD Studio, which is my online platform community that has body doubling, drop in coaching, lots of events. It's pretty fun. I think you'll like it. If you would like to get more info or sign up for group coaching, Please visit adhdstudio, ca or vancouveradhdcoaching.com so Ash, what are we talking about today?
- [01:19]
A
Dusty, today we're talking about the fact that ADHD brains are wired for context. That's something that we've said so often on this podcast and I think that it is worth revisiting as a concept unto itself. So what do we mean by wired for context? Well, what. What this means is we are not linear thinkers. We think contextually, not linearly. We are so often the children that wrote the outline last. I don't know about you, Dusty, but whenever I had a research paper when I was in school, and this was all the way up through college, if an outline was required as part of the assignment, the out was the very last part that got written. It has never once worked for me and still doesn't work for me. If I'm plotting out a talk today on something that I'm very knowledgeable about on adhd, I cannot start with an outline. I do not know what the beginning, middle and end looks like until I start working on the project, because my brain just doesn't work that way.
- [02:17]
B
Or your podcast co host goes, okay, what do you want to say about this topic today? And you go, I don't know. You start talking and then I'll figure it out.
- [02:24]
A
That's right. And that's a conversation we've had in both directions multiple times where if One of us is bringing a topic, the other one is like, I'll have some stuff to say once we get going, once I have some context. And so there is both strength and challenge in this. And I think so often we only see the challenge. We talked about this on the last episode on self esteem and self worth, where challenge is always the bigger signal and the only thing that we see. And yes, there is challenge here because our brains are literally wired differently. And so, for example, being the kid who always turned in the outline last when it was required in school to turn in an outline before I had even started the paper, that was an assignment that I very rarely did well in, despite paper writing anything English related, anything words related generally being a strength of mine. If I had to submit an outline for a paper before I had started writing the paper, chances are I either wasn't going to do that assignment at all or that I would find it really difficult to make the final paper once I actually started working on it, fit the outline that I had written to fulfill the assignment.
- [03:41]
B
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of ways that my brain is wired for context and that's not necessarily specifically one of them. I think because, well, you and I have quite different adhd. But when it comes to academics, I feel like classroom learning really works for me. And I was taught specifically around outlines. I was taught to do outlines. So like I always do that, but in other ways for me I will very often. So I have different projects that I work on. Right. Like I've been on board of directors of different things or you know, maybe I'm working on some band stuff and I'll set time aside to like chip away at some stuff I need to do for the band or for any of that. And when the time comes, I just cannot think of what I'm supposed to do. I can't figure out how to do it. It's really hard to get myself to do it. It helps to make really, really detail for like how to do what I need to do. Like go to this website, create a membership, log in and request blah blah. Because if I just write fix problem with X when the time comes, I'm like, huh? But the, what I've noticed about myself is as soon as I'm having a meeting with whoever, whoever the stakeholders are about that topic, all of a sudden it's like my mind just expands in 18 directions. I think of all these things I could do, things that I want to do. And what I've really learned is like, I need to reserve time right after a meeting and to do those things. And it's just pure folly to say, okay, I'll do that later. Because even if I set the time aside, it just. My brain, it's like that part, it's behind a door, and the door is shut and locked, and I can just stand there banging on that door, but the door just opens at the magical hour when everyone else arrives for the meeting. And that's my kind of context. Like, I have to do things while I'm thinking of them or it just doesn't happen.
- [05:17]
A
Yeah, Dusty, that. That first part that you mentioned of not always knowing what the steps are, that can real challenge. With our contextual brains, we. We struggle to see the list. We struggle to see in what order do I tackle these tasks. And similarly, when our brains go 18 million different directions, sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between what's important and relevant here and what's not. You know, what is within the scope of what we're trying to do here and what's maybe outside of that scope, because we can see all of these different possibilities. But it can be sometimes hard to distinguish where to put intention and effort. Another challenge with making meaning differently is it can be a roundabout process for us to understand something. I gave a presentation to a small company, so we're all sitting around a large conference table, and most of the employees of this company are in this room on adhd and spent some time afterwards kind of talking with them about discrete challenges that they have in the workplace and how adhd, ADHD is playing a role because a large number of their employees have adhd. And one of the frustrations that came up from a person that does not have ADHD is that he feels that I've written documentation, I've shown you exactly what the answer is to something. So when you come to me to ask a question, I want you to look at that documentation first. And the counter argument that I made, and I had a client that put this really well, a list is the worst way for me to understand something. So there may be some contextual pieces that a person with ADHD needs that you can't possibly wrap into a document. That's why sometimes dialoguing with someone else can help us understand something. Especially dialoguing with someone who does understand, so we can ask the questions that are coming to mind for us and get the right answers can be one of the best ways for us to make meaning. And so the idea of just check the document doesn't necessarily work for us.
- [07:32]
B
Yes. Oh, my God. I feel like you just made something connect in my brain, actually, because I've always been a terrible self learner. Like, I can't teach myself. I'm not. The term is autodidactic. I'm not autodidactic at all. I can't watch YouTube videos about how to do a thing and like, really do it. But I've always been a good classroom learner because I can ask questions and I always just thought I was bad at teaching myself stuff or whatever. But it's exactly that. When I am trying to learn something, I always have questions that are never answered in a video, in a script, in a document. There's always some question that or like something doesn't quite make sense to me and I need to be able to ask somebody for clarification. And this was a big problem for me both in high school and just in my life. There would be times in high school specifically around math, and I think I probably have a bit of dyscalculia. I don't know where a teacher would explain something to me and he'd be like, does that make sense? And I'd be like, no, I don't get it. And then they'd explain it again. They'd be like, does that make sense? And I would feel too, like, I'd feel too embarrassed to be like, no, I still don't get it. So I'd be like, oh, yeah, okay, thanks. And then I'd still be like, I have no idea. But this continued to happen to me, you know, at workplaces and whatever. Like, sometimes people just explain things and I would be like, what you're saying doesn't make sense, but I've already asked you to explain it twice. And I feel really embarrassed to ask again. But when I can understand what I need to ask and I can ask somebody, then I can like, learn anything.
- [09:00]
A
Dusty. I'm the same way. And so much so that I've. I've just learned that that is the necessarily the way that I need to learn. So, for example, if I'm trying to learn something new about how to do handy stuff around my house, which is something that I'm working on getting better at right now, I tend to ask a handy friend who doesn't mind that type of working relationship where I don't want you to do it for me. I want to do it together, and I want to do it in a way where I learn how to do it right, I want to be the one doing it, but I want you there to answer my questions, to give me the context, to. To fill in whatever gaps I need filled in. Because like you, I can't just watch a YouTube video. I wish I could. By the way, I knew this guy who could do anything based off of a YouTube video. And by the way, I've had some clients for whom that's true as well. So this is not necessarily true for everyone with ad, but I knew this guy who could learn how to do anything right. He just loved YouTube. He was actually an immigrant to the. To the US and one of the things he loved the most about US Culture is the availability of information on social media. I can learn anything just by watching a video, and I can teach myself how to do anything that I want to do. And I've always wished that I had that capability, but I simply just don't. I don't. And that's something I've had to learn to accept for myself, is I. I need that dialogue. I need that back and forth. I need the ability to ask questions and get clarification in order to be able to make meaning on something. And by the way, speaking to your school experiences, this is something that can make us feel stupid as people with adhd. That we make meaning differently is something that we are often made to feel stupid for. I talked several weeks ago about a client who is often told she overcomplicates things. And her realization was that she just has a roundabout way sometimes to make meaning and understand. And actually that when she tends to actually overcomplicate is when she's fighting against that need that she has to make meaning the way that she needs to make meaning.
- [11:17]
B
Yeah, that's. That's huge. And I, I also have a lot of clients who struggle with that. And I think, I think I'm the same way. Like, I always say I can't do things the simplest way possible. I have to, like, overcomplicate it to get my brain zone, like interest. If I could just put the laundry away, I won't do it. But if I sort it into piles or colors by type or like, make a little game out of it or like, add extra steps, then it's easy for me. Like, it has to be difficult to be easy.
- [11:42]
A
Dusty. Where ADHD coaching is really relevant here is ADHD can often make it hard to understand our own context. I like to say that our brains are searchable but not indexable. And so sometimes we don't know what we don't know. And coaching conversations can be a great mechanism to bring this out to bring out new awareness. So, for example, I had a client, we were talking about dating, and she was talking about this loop. She gets caught in between, avoiding, just completely avoiding the topic of dating, not wanting to look at it or acknowledge it in any way, and then eventually coming to action, getting on the apps, kind of forcing herself to do things, but forcing herself to do it out of, and this is her language, out of despair. And so the interesting conversation we had there was, what does it look like to do this from a positively motivated place? What does it look like to put yourself in the picture here? She realized that that loop she was caught in between avoidance and despair had everything to do with societal expectations of a woman of her age and where she, quote, unquote, should be when it comes to dating and the steps that you, quote, unquote, should take in order to date. And she connected back to a time in her life where she did date several different people. And she realized that I wasn't doing it the way everyone else does it. I was doing it in a way that worked for me. I was doing what I like to do in going out and meeting new people. And that's how I was connecting with people to date. So on top of that, in this conversation, we also contextualized dating into the broader question of a life that fits. So, yes, a long term relationship is an experience that this client would like to have. But something that I asked her in that session is, is, is a life alone the worst thing that could happen to you? And I asked it completely without attachment to it. She instantly said, no, no. What's more important to me is having interests, having friends, getting excited and curious about stuff. This is a client whose number one need is adventure. She's lived all over the world, she speaks multiple languages, she loves meeting new people, international people. She loves learning new things and fulfilling that sense of adventure. And without those things, that would be a life that doesn't fit. So this also sort of recontextualized dating into something that she wants to have, but not something that she needs to have or needs to force in order to have a fulfilling life. And so the moral of this story, listeners, is with adhd, because we have these brains that are searchable but not indexable, sometimes we are not aware of what's motivating us because this cycle of either avoidance or acting from a place of despair, acting from a place of I have to do something about this, was acting according to values that are not her values, according to values that are someone else's values. According to thinking from a one down place of how other people see her as a woman of her age who hasn't quote unquote settled down. And by the way, she's not a US citizen, but the, the culture that she does live is very homogenous. And so there is sort of the one path of you get married, you settle down. That's what you're quote unquote supposed to do. And that's, that's the pattern of thinking that she was falling into without even realizing it. Without even realizing that she was completely not putting herself in the picture and acting from a set of values that aren't hers.
- [15:33]
B
So you were also saying earlier with regard to strengths and how it links into this. Can you talk a little bit about that?
- [15:39]
A
Absolutely. Dusty. So we do make meaning differently and that does come with challenge, but it also comes with strengths. And one of the biggest ones is adhd. People are almost universally good in a crisis. And why is that? Because that searchable but not indexable brain crisis can be a real clarifier. And because we absorb so much information, because we are relentlessly curious, because we always want to know the context, we are often able to see solutions that other folks can't see. Dusty. I see that as a real strength of yours in particular. I feel like every time I talk to you, you live this big complicated life where you have not just one or two or three or four sets of supports, you have so many supports from so many people and so many relationships that are reciprocal in that way. And I feel like something that you really excel at is looking for the creative solution. Looking for, where is the possibility here, even in a really tough or dire situation.
- [16:44]
B
Well, thank you. I think you're saying something really important here because when we get into some kind of context, whether it's working as a group or figuring out a problem, whether it's in a work context or a personal context or when we're in the situation. You're right. I think it does kind of unlock our natural strengths because so many people say that people with ADHD like are outside the box thinkers. And like we, we're like little squirrels, right? We're always squirreling away like nuts of information and little bits of skills. You know, like a lot of people with ADC feel like they're the jack of all trades because we go where our interest takes us and so we accumulate all these little like bits of skills and all these little bits of data. And then when we're faced with a problem, we can go and Access those data banks and we can find the relevant nuts that we've squirreled away that will like, solve this problem. And then other people are kind of like, whoa, how'd you do that? So I feel like there's a precedent for why our brains work like this. You know, leading up to these contextual moments where we're suddenly like, oh, here's a really cool outside the box solution. It's all come because of little, tiny, you know, nuts that we've squirreled away for winter. We have very curious brains, so we learned a lot about this subject or that subject, and we learned how to do a little bit of this or a little bit of that. And then in the moment where our brains go like, oh, you could go this plus that, and you would get this outcome. So I think that our natural curiosity and our almost like that ADT tendency to flip from thing to thing becomes a strength in context of problem solving. I mean, it is always said that people with ADC are these creative, outside the box, you know, problem solvers. And I don't, I don't think that I've ever really thought more deeply about why that is. But my guess is that that's a big part of it and it becomes a strength.
- [18:31]
A
It absolutely is dusty. And another place that you really see this is adhd. Folks are great liaisons. We're great bridges between people because we can kind of step into and understand multiple perspectives. And we're really good at kind of translating between differently branch trained people. So, for example, the same client I was talking about earlier, very different context. Her big strength at work is communicating between the engineers and the business people who, who speak different languages and have different priorities. She's able to kind of see the context from both sides and talk across aisles to both sets of people. Again, to kind of bridge connections and build creative solutions that may not otherwise exist.
- [19:18]
B
Yeah, that's true as well. I feel like in the previous episode where we were talking about self esteem. You know, you've got this problem with ADHD where I think you, you're too easy to see things from other people's sides. But then that becomes a strength here where you're, you're really good at seeing things from other people's point of view in a way. So that can be helpful. Maybe not helpful when you want to take a stand on something, but definitely helpful when you need to, to be able to understand a different perspective for sure. So, Ash, what are the implications for somebody with ADHD that wants to understand or manage their ADHD better when it comes to being a contextual thinker or people with ADHD being context driven.
- [20:00]
A
Dusty, this is where I come back to that language of searchable but not indexable, right? So often any given solution or practice or awareness or perspective shift that we come to in ADHD coaching is something that seems really, quote unquote obvious once we've gotten there. In fact, I had a client recently say that to me that, oh, this is so simple. I should have been able to see this for myself. And here's the thing is with adhd, simple and easy are not necessarily the same thing. So back to my example earlier with my client and dating. She's been caught in this loop for a very long time. But it wasn't until that coaching conversation that she became aware that her behavior this, this acting out of despair and or avoiding was because she was carrying around somebody else's context, right? The context of the society that she lives in. And she wasn't realizing that that is what was driving both of those behaviors is this set of expectations that she doesn't necessarily believe in that don't fit her life or a life that fits for her, but that she's carrying around and acting out of without realizing that's what she's doing. And so that really is kind of the meat of ADHD coaching. That's so often what we're trying to do is it's not about the email you're not answering or the thing you're not doing, or the thing that you'll only do out of frustration or despair. It's about what is the context that is in there that's driving that behavior and getting to that answer. We talk about cause and effect. That's getting to causation, is finding those nuggets of context that you might be carrying around that are not serving you.
- [21:52]
B
Very well said.
- [21:54]
A
Thanks, Dusty. And I do think that's a good place for us to wrap for today listeners. As a reminder, if you find this show helpful, please consider taking a moment to leave a review wherever you listen. This helps us show up in search engines. This helps other people know that this show is a a useful resource on adhd. So it's one small thing that you can do to help us out and we'd really appreciate it. Until next week. I'm Ash. And I'm Dusty and this is the Translating ADHD podcast. Thanks for listening.