Esther's Second Baby Birth Story w/ Dave King

Summary

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Trash Tuesday: Esther's Second Baby Birth Story w/ Dave King

Podcast: Trash Tuesday w/ Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn
Hosts: Khalyla Kuhn & Esther Povitsky
Guest: Dave King
Date: April 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode marks Esther Povitsky’s much-anticipated return after the birth of her second child. The central focus is Esther’s detailed, hilarious, and candid account of her second birth story, accompanied by her husband Dave King. Esther, Khalyla, and Dave dive into the emotional rollercoaster of labor, unexpected bodily phenomena, post-partum feelings, and the challenges and victories of childbirth and motherhood the second time around. The conversation is warm, self-deprecating, and truthful, with frequent digressions into relationships, trauma, and the unique strain (and joy) of being a mother.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Esther’s Return, Maternity Leave, and Motherhood Mood

[01:34]–[04:16]

• Esther returns after two months off, explains she left earlier than intended due to pre-labor contractions at 36 weeks.
• She jokes about “mommy brain” (accidentally tagging a friend as another person on Instagram).
• Esther dives into the oft-not-discussed realities of postpartum life, including leaking urine and bodily changes, with her trademark irreverence.
• She unabashedly celebrates her son, reflecting on previous gender disappointment and how it changed the moment she held him:

  “The second he was on my chest, I’m like, oh, he is actually so cute...I was scared of him having a penis and balls, and I’m like, they’re so cute.” – Esther [04:36]

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2. Birth Story: From Anxiety to Euphoria

[04:16]–[44:22]

The Lead-Up: Anxiety, Hospital, and Epidurals

[04:16]–[18:09]

• Esther details having a lingering cold, repeated false labor (Braxton Hicks), and wanting a movie-style natural labor.
• She describes hospital intake, triage woes (“triage is like where the losers are” [09:03]), and her crushing anxiety about labor risks—exacerbated by “bad birth” TikToks.
• On the pressure to have an “ideal” experience and fear of death in childbirth:

  “My brain goes to the worst case. I’m like, I’m gonna die in childbirth.” – Esther [11:01]

• Esther requests an early epidural before a Foley balloon induction, feeling insecure about breaking the “rules.” The anesthesiologist's empathy helps her feel validated:

  “He goes, ‘Oh, that’s what my wife did and she was really glad she did.’ And I’m like, I love you.” – Esther [17:01]

• The joy of pain relief:

  “If I could walk into a bar tonight and order an epidural, I would be there.” – Esther [17:16]

Labor Progression & Unique Complications

[18:09]–[28:07]

• Baby is initially sunny side up, which worries Esther due to her TikTok-fed anxieties.
• The induction progresses rapidly—her Foley balloon falls out quickly, indicating rapid dilation (“The first time they come in, they’re like, oh, it fell out.” [24:09]).
• Her unusual symptom: coughing with every contraction. Nurses initially skeptical, but soon verify:

  “The nurse goes... ‘Oh, you really are coughing every time you contract.’ I’m like, yeah, that’s what I’ve been saying.” – Esther [24:51]

The Delivery: Fast and Calm

[36:15]–[44:22]

• Water breaks naturally overnight during induction.
• Pitocin is turned off as her body takes over, and contractions ramp up. Esther starts vomiting, signaling imminent delivery.
• Pushing phase is remarkably short:

  “The baby's born at 1:58am and there's only seven minutes of pushing...four contractions.” – Dave [37:31]

• The atmosphere is calm, even sleepy, a contrast from her first birth’s urgency.
• On having a much smoother experience:

  “When they say second babies come fast—don’t be like me, believe them!” – Esther [39:17]

Emotional Impact & Comparing Births

[39:40]–[44:22]

• Esther feels bittersweet reflecting on Ace’s more traumatic birth versus Bernie’s smooth arrival, wrestling with feelings of being “gypped” out of a magical first experience.
• Khalyla offers validation and perspective on trauma, luck, and the randomness of birth complications.

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3. The Aftermath: Naming, Postpartum, and Breastfeeding

[44:46]–[50:10]

Naming Their Son

• The couple chose “Bernard Samuel” (Bernie) after a family member, appreciating the vintage, uncommon quality of the name.

  “My criteria for a baby name is that no one’s going to use it...His name is Bernard.” – Esther [45:43]

• Discussion on Jewish naming customs (waiting until after a namesake’s passing), and sideline stories about famous Bernards.

Breastfeeding & Second Time Jitters

• Esther relishes a “win” with successful initial breastfeeding this time, a contrast to her first baby (Ace), who was formula-fed due to medical complications.

  “Proudly state that win. Because I had such a loss on the first one where I did not get the opportunity to breastfeed at all.” – Esther [49:09]

• Dave jokes about Esther’s recurring vaginal tear (“same tear”), sparking comic relief:

  “Did you hear that, coworkers? My wife got the same tear this time on her vagina that she did the first time giving birth.” – Dave [50:21]

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4. Postpartum Realities: Humor & Hard Truths

[50:11]–[73:13]

Physical Recovery & Parenting

• Esther describes new postpartum quirks—peeing herself, depletion, and the exhaustion of handling two children.
• The realities of marriage and domesticity are openly discussed (Dave’s bloody leg scratches, cookie preferences, and infamous “Subway footlong” incident).
• Esther reflects on how different her perspective and recovery are compared to round one—there’s less existential shock, but more juggling.

Friendship & Support

• Khalyla and Esther compare postpartum recoveries and the invisible disabilities of disabilities (e.g., Bell’s palsy for Khalyla).
• Khalyla gently reframes Esther’s guilt over Ace not breastfeeding, focusing on mental health and “best version” of motherhood:

  “Ace got the best version of you—the mentally strong version of you.” – Khalyla [68:31]

Emotional Reflections

• Esther voices grief and guilt about her first birth’s trauma and missing milestones, but gradually accepts that both breastfeeding and formula are valid, feeding journeys.

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Notable Quotes

• On gender disappointment:

  “You have these fantasies…but when that baby, you’re like, who the cares? Like, this is perfection.” – Khalyla [04:16]

• On fear before labor:

  “I’m gonna die in childbirth.” – Esther [11:01]

• After epidural:

  “If I could walk into a bar tonight and order an epidural, I would be there.” – Esther [17:16]

• Rapid delivery:

  “The baby's born at 1:58am and there's only seven minutes of pushing...four contractions.” – Dave [37:31]

• Comparing births:

  “When they say second babies come fast—don’t be like me, believe them!” – Esther [39:17]

• On parenting two:

  “Zero to one is, like, you learn a whole new operating system. One to two...you already know the OS, it’s just way more hard.” – Esther [71:10]

• On the meaning of motherhood:

  “Ace got the best version of you—the mentally strong version of you...it all worked out the way it needed to work out.” – Khalyla [68:31]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:34] Esther’s return, catching up with Khalyla.
• [04:36] Initial worries about the baby’s gender.
• [09:03] Entering triage and hospital intake woes.
• [11:01] Anxiety about dying in childbirth.
• [17:01] Relief after anesthesiologist affirms early epidural.
• [24:51] Nurse validates Esther’s unique “contraction cough.”
• [36:20] Water breaks naturally, progression towards active labor.
• [37:31] Only seven minutes of pushing, rapid delivery.
• [39:40] Emotional impact of contrasting birth experiences.
• [45:43] Discussion of baby names.
• [49:09] Esther celebrates a successful breastfeeding start.
• [50:21] Dave’s comic “same tear” announcement.
• [64:43] Esther reflects on her wild postpartum hormonal dreams.
• [68:31] Khalyla reframes guilt over different feeding journeys.

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Memorable Moments

• Esther’s self-deprecating humor: Repeated jokes about her body, anxiety, and the realities of labor set a candid, relatable tone.
• Dave’s calmness during labor: The comic contrast between Esther’s panic and Dave’s understated excitement during the drive to the hospital [22:31].
• Comic bits: The “same tear” on her vagina; Dave’s comments about scratching his bloody legs in bed [51:14]; and the famous “Subway footlong” incident.
• Raw postpartum dialogue: Honest admissions about recovery, guilt, differences between formula and breastfeeding without shame or filter.

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Tone & Style

The episode is an honest, warm, confessional, and riotous conversation about birth and motherhood—full of irreverence, medical TMI, and genuine friendship. Esther’s openness is balanced by Khalyla’s soothing logic and empathy, while Dave provides comedic counterpoints and supportive detail. The result is a deeply relatable portrait of modern motherhood, warts, leaky bits, and all.

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For listeners craving real, unsanitized stories about birth, partnerships, and the relentless weirdness of postpartum life, this episode delivers a blend of gallows humor, vulnerability, and hard-won wisdom.

Transcript

[Kalila]

Wait, did you tear this time?

[Esther]

Tear? Exact same tear.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Did you hear that, co workers? My wife got the same tear this time on her vagina that she did the first time giving birth.

[Esther]

Kila. Yes, we have our first ever limited edition merch drop. There's very few left still available, but we just wanted to open up that opportunity to you guys. If you want of our Trash Tuesday shirts, we also have Trash Tuesday hats which I left mine in my car but I wear it every day. It's so cute.

[Kalila]

She wore it when she gave birth during labor. It was really cute.

[Esther]

If you want these because once they're gone, they're gone.

[Kalila]

We're not making these again.

[Esther]

And there will be a link in the description if you want the last of these cute once in a lifetime opportunity T shirts. We love our Skims everyday cotton collection and you can shop everyday cotton and all of our favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to tell them what you we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows or.

[Kalila]

Our Patreon is juicy.

[Esther]

Oh my. It's actually not juicy, if you know what I mean. That's way too.

[Kalila]

Yeah, it was extremely tmi. But you know what? No take backs, no regrets.

[Esther]

Go to patreon.com Trash Tuesday podcast or click the link below. Definitely check out our Patreon. This is the time to join. If you haven't yet, I promise, don't do it. Wow. Wow. Hello.

[Kalila]

It's been a while.

[Esther]

Did you miss me? I noticed you haven't said that yet.

[Kalila]

I. I did miss you. I did.

[Esther]

You did?

[Kalila]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've just been like, you know, really? We talk every day. You tell me, you know, you tell me every single detail of your postpartum journey. So I, for me, I don't miss you because I. I still have you.

[Esther]

And also I was thinking back, we text. You did. Through the whole birth.

[Kalila]

Through the whole birth.

[Esther]

Yeah. That was really helpful for all my spinning out. So welcome back to Trash Tuesday. I haven't been here in like two months because I thought I was gonna record up till like 39 weeks pregnant. And then at like 36 weeks pregnant, I just like collapsed. I didn't actually collapse, but I was having those pre labor contractions.

[Kalila]

They were driving much sooner than you thought.

[Esther]

It was rough. So thank you so much to you and to all of our amazing family villains, of course. And did you guys see that I tagged Peter Kim as David So on Instagram.

[Kalila]

I know he did text me. He's like, is this mommy brain or racism?

[Esther]

It's racism and homophobia.

[Kalila]

I was like, I'm pretty sure it's just mommy brain.

[Esther]

It was when I had mastitis, so.

[Kalila]

Oh, yeah. It's so excused.

[Esther]

Thank you.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Just making sure everyone knows that you had mastitis in case they don't follow your Instagram.

[Kalila]

It's inflammatory, by the way, not bacterial.

[Esther]

Yes. Thank you.

[Additional Co-worker]

Can I say something? Like, we can cut real quick.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Additional Co-worker]

I kind of read it as, like, kind of looks like mass titties a little bit.

[Esther]

Do not cut.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Was fun to show up to work and people would be like, we saw what Esther is going through, so I. I hope she is okay.

[Esther]

I know. Every morning I would wake up and they would be like, so glad. All my co workers know you're leaking urine.

[Co-worker/Friend]

It's a fun vibe.

[Esther]

First of all, you were in Hawaii for a month, like, over.

[Kalila]

I was, Yeah. I took advantage of the mat leave as well.

[Esther]

But I feel bad because you were there for the historic storm.

[Kalila]

Yeah, I was. I wasn't. It was, like, awful. But, you know, we did as much as we could with the girls, like, while we were there to, like, help out and stuff. So I'm glad that I was actually there for that.

[Esther]

Yeah. That's nice. We have a lot to cover today. We have the birth story. We also have that I have a son and I love him.

[Additional Co-worker]

Yay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yay.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You really love him.

[Esther]

Say more.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You were just on the ride here, you were talking about how he was, like, smiling at you this morning and everything.

[Esther]

He's so handsome. He's so cute. I love my son. And I. I'm thinking back to, like, the nine months of complaining about being pregnant with a boy.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

And you never, ever, like, said anything back to me. Like, you never were, like, it'll be fine. Like, you just sort of, like, almost let me have my tantrum quietly and just knew it would work itself out.

[Kalila]

Yeah, I. I knew that the moment you saw your baby boy. It just doesn't matter, right? Like, yeah. That's the whole thing with, like, gender disappointment. I think that that happens during pregnancy because you have these, like, fantasies of, like, hey, I want, like, my little girl, whatever. But when that baby, you're like, who the cares? Like, this is perfection.

[Esther]

The second he was on my chest, I'm like, oh, he is actually so cute. Like, you know, and it just. And I was scared of him having a penis and balls, and I'm like, They're so cute.

[Kalila]

I know. That's the part you did ask me a lot about. You're like, how's the, you know, cleaning this, cleaning that? I'm like, it's fine. It's actually easier.

[Esther]

I find I was really scared about a baby penis and I'm have no issue with it. So. Birth story. Will you. Will you kick us off?

[Co-worker/Friend]

Oh, well, I was just thinking back to the. Because we did the birth story of Ace, our first. Our daughter, and we, like, wrote down every detail and we. I'm like, we. In hindsight, we behaved as if we were the first couple to ever have a child.

[Esther]

Well, yeah, that's.

[Kalila]

Wait, but by the way, birth stories, I like every single detail.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yes. And I love that. And it was fun to like, recount the minute by minute. TikTok.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But this time when I. I'm. What's there to say? Like, we had a baby. Went really well. Like, you really want to hear all these details? I don't know. It is real. Like, I really do. Child syndrome or whatever you call it.

[Kalila]

Yeah, I know.

[Co-worker/Friend]

We will go through it. But you agree, I think, right?

[Esther]

Actually, no, I don't.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Great.

[Esther]

Because to me, birth is like, that's what I wait for my whole life. Like, I suffer nine months in and out, like, just misery. And so, like, the birth is like the big celebration.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Well, just to be clear.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

The. In my. My personal, like, memory of the birth is just as like, clear and memorable as Aces was. But the way I would present it to the world is different.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

I really do appreciate the fact that you're a good documentarian in that way. Because I don't remember 70% of it because I was out of it. Like, I was.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

In agony. I was uncomfortable. So, like, bits and pieces of time are lost forever. So I'm like, if I could give any advice to like, a new mom or a first time, like, birthing mom, it's like, have a Dave or have someone who can really, like, recount everything for you so that they can tell it back to you. So my sister tells it back to me. I'm really. I. I get excited all over again.

[Esther]

Yeah, I, Yeah, I. I'm the same way. Okay. So basically I had gotten a mild cold and I was fine. This was probably like right around 37 weeks. And I had also started to experience contractions. And like, I had went to the. Even went to the hospital one night and was like, maybe it's happening and it wasn't. They're like, you're Having fake contractions. Like the mild cold had gone away. Right. I was fine. But you know how sometimes at the end of a cold you get like a link. What's so funny?

[Co-worker/Friend]

It's like the mild cold had gone away. It's like maybe we could have then just skipped the part about you previously had a mild cold.

[Esther]

It's my thought. It's like my thought.

[Kalila]

Okay, carry on, sister.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Just. Also, this may or may not be relevant, but when I was a senior in college, I had appendicitis.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I had surgery and they removed the appendix.

[Kalila]

Did it rupture or did it.

[Co-worker/Friend]

It perforated?

[Kalila]

O emergency, then?

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yes. Yeah, I had fully recovered by the time we gave birth to the baby.

[Esther]

Okay, so just to. By the way, I'm glad you're bringing this up, cuz I'm really freaked out about the fact that you had appendicitis because I just saw a tik tok. You see it? You're on the same algorithm as me. I know hypochondriacs, they used to say, you don't need your appendix, and now they say, like, oops, you do, because

[Kalila]

it's like a vestigial organ and it's just. But clearly you can live just fine without enough.

[Esther]

Some bacteria issues, sure.

[Kalila]

But it's like a tiny little corner in a pocket that just causes a lot of issues. So it's like, who gives a if it's out?

[Co-worker/Friend]

I couldn't live with mine, so as many people cannot.

[Kalila]

The choice was removed for him.

[Esther]

Oh, okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

If it blows up, imagine if you're

[Kalila]

like, sorry, I want to keep mine.

[Esther]

Yeah, that's. That would be me. So thank you for that.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay, so this is post cold, post appendectomy.

[Esther]

Okay. Okay. So, you know, sometimes at the end of a mild cold, you have like a little cough that lingers. So post nasal, and it's not a big deal. Like a cough. Basically what happened was every time I would have one of my little fake contractions, I would get short of breath and the cough would be like so intense, and I would just be choking. And this. It was on a Saturday night, and it happened literally the whole night. I was contracting, choking, I was up, my throat was burning from the intense coughs. I. I got up Saturday, Sunday morning, I'm like, I'm having this baby. Like, I'm done. And I was actually had a scheduled induction for Sunday night, but I was never for sure gonna go because I really, as you guys maybe remember, like, I really wanted to go into labor naturally. Like, I Wanted to have that movie experience of, like, oh, my God, I'm just like a normal woman, and my water broke, and now I'm rushing to the hospital, and it's, like, so scary, and. But, no, that was just not going to be me. So I call the hospital. They're like, yeah, come on in early, whatever. So we get there, and I'm like, guys, every time I have a contraction, I cough. They're like. They basically clearly don't believe me. They're like, that's. We've never heard of that. Like, I'm like, okay, whatever. So we wait there all day. They basically, you could stay. We'll start your induction. So we're waiting forever. We're in triage, which is like, you don't want to be in triage, right? Triage is like, where the losers are. They don't. They haven't set you up. They're not treating you seriously, taking you seriously. All I really remember is by the time we were in our nice hospital room, Dave was so excited.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, I was.

[Esther]

He was so happy. He's like, this room is so nice. We're going to have a baby in here. And I.

[Kalila]

That room is beautiful, with a view.

[Co-worker/Friend]

The. The delivery rooms at Cedars, like, if those were hotel suites, you could charge a lot of money per night and

[Kalila]

not to skip too far ahead, but when it's game time and they bring out all the lights that are already set up there, you're like, I'm a special thing.

[Esther]

Movie star.

[Kalila]

Yeah, I'm a movie star.

[Esther]

So I have to say, right when we got moved to that room, where it's like, oh, this is really happening, my anxiety went nut. So, like, the juxtaposition position of Dave being like, I'm so excited, and I'm like, I'm gonna die. Like, this is so scary. Like, this is real. Like, why would I.

[Kalila]

Because you remember the first time when you had the. The misoprostol, and then you had barely dilated, and it was like a whole long thing for you.

[Esther]

But I wasn't even afraid of that. I was just afraid of literally, like, my brain goes to the worst case. I'm like, I'm gonna die in childbirth. Like, this.

[Kalila]

Is this so scary.

[Esther]

Like, I almost texted you that.

[Co-worker/Friend]

What, at that moment, did you think the chances were that you would die in childbirth?

[Esther]

2020.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay. So what do you think the actual chances are that someone's gonna die in childhood?

[Esther]

It seems like it's pretty rare these days, but I feel like, it does happen.

[Kalila]

I think it's because we're in the same tick tock algorithm where we're only receiving the bad stories of childbirth and we're not seeing the rest of it. So we've done this to ourselves.

[Esther]

Yes. But I. What I will say is I recently became friends with someone who's a labor and delivery nurse, someone I went to high school with who became one. She said that she's never had a woman die in childbirth, and that helped.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But to you, 1 in 520 is.

[Esther]

Sorry I'm not a gambler like you.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Well, that's also something that, like, you don't have to be a gambler to know that I know you that you know that, and you're joking.

[Esther]

They're like. They're like, we're gonna do a cervical check to see where. Because, you know, at this point, I've been having contractions for three weeks. Maybe I'm dilated. Maybe it's like, we're gonna not need to induce, and I'm just in labor. So, like, we're gonna do a cervical check to, like, see where you did

[Kalila]

the sweep A couple days. Yeah.

[Esther]

Membrane sweep. It did nothing. And as you know, the cervical checks have been literally hell on earth for me. They're so painful. Like, my pelvic floor at this point in pregnancy was, like, so tense and tight, and I'm not trying to brag, but, like, it was just so painful and bad. So she does a cervical check. There's been no improvement in my dilation or my effacement. Whatever. It's so painful. I'm like, at this point, I'm like, she put one finger in.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Jesus.

[Esther]

And I'm like, ah. Like, how is a baby coming out?

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

When this is one figure and it feels like. So then they're like, that's how they make the decision of how they're gonna start the induction. So they're like, we're gonna start with the Foley balloon, which is this balloon that they put in you, and they pump it up and they open your cervix that way. This is like, the one thing I've heard over and over again, is so painful. And I end up not having to do it. My last baby, and I've always been like, I'm never doing the balloon. So I'm like, can I, I guess, have the epidural if I'm. And they're like, of course. These are like, we don't think you need it. They're like, nobody really does that. I'm like, literally stressing so hard because I'm like, I know I've always had it in my head, don't ever get the balloon without the epidural. But also at the same time, like, I haven't even started my induction. Really, the first thing I'm going to do is get that drill. Like, I'm so scared of this. And then finally dav.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Esther]

You chimed in. You don't even remember.

[Co-worker/Friend]

My memory is a little different.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I did not think the nurses at Cedar Sinai were. I remember them.

[Esther]

My main nurse was amazing.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But just these shout out Meshi.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

She was incredible.

[Esther]

She is my everything. You were like, well, is the balloon worse or better than the cervical child?

[Co-worker/Friend]

They were like, the balloon is basically like a constant cervical check. Right. And Esther was like, okay, then I want the epidural.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

And I was like, good for you for knowing. Yeah.

[Kalila]

Your yourself then.

[Esther]

I'm feeling so insecure, right? Because I'm like, oh, I'm this big loser. I'm. The first thing I'm doing is getting the epidural. Like, I'm this little bitch. Like, I suck and I'm making all the wrong choices. There's just all the self hatred is like starting up.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I may be misreading the situation, but I think that having gone through this twice now, sometimes I think that, like, the nurses in this situation are trying to be very like, intentional. Intentional about making the whole process, your decision and not weighing in in a way that makes it sound like they're telling you what to do. And so when you say, like, you want to get the epidural before, they may be in their minds going, like, that's a great idea, you really should. Or like, that's a bad idea, you shouldn't. But it presents as more of sort of like, that's an option. We could do that if you'd like. Because they are like not trying to weigh in, tip the scales either way. And I think that you sometimes read that as like, guys, like, what the hell am I, like a freak for wanting this or something.

[Esther]

I. I hear you.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Thank you.

[Esther]

But yeah, I feel like I disagree because I feel like they're like. When they say, like, most people don't

[Kalila]

do that, but that is factual, right?

[Esther]

I'm not most people. I'm not like other girls.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But also like, at the beginning of the process, you will ask a lot, like, what do most people do?

[Esther]

Oh, that's true. So like, I do actually always say, what do most.

[Co-worker/Friend]

What do most people do? Yeah.

[Kalila]

And the fear is that the epidural will sort of stall later. Right. If you get it too soon.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Look, I'm no expert in this at all, but when you asked, when we asked them about like getting the epidural early, they will be like, you basically won't be able to get up and like pee and move at all. Investors. Like, that's great.

[Esther]

That's a plus for me. Yeah.

[Kalila]

But it's party time for you.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Everybody wants prioritizes different things.

[Esther]

Yeah. I cannot relate to the wanting to walk around then.

[Kalila]

Then I. I cannot relate to the. To wanting to being sat there the whole time because I lose my mind.

[Esther]

This is why we co host a podcast together. Okay. So I'm like feeling like about this decision. The anesthesiologist come in, they give me the epidural. And then one of the main. The head anesthesiologist. I'm not going to say that word again. He's like, are you not feeling the contractions anymore? And I go, oh, so I don't know because I actually haven't had a contraction yet. And I'm like, you know, acting like, you know, like my self hating self, whatever. And he goes, oh, that's what my wife did. And she was really glad that she did. And I'm like, I love you.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah, that was good.

[Esther]

It changed everything for me. Like the freaking. His wife, that's what she did. I'm like, great. Okay. So like. And then also, as soon as the epidural sets in, let me tell you, if I could walk into a bar tonight and order an epidural, I would be there.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You've never been in a bar in your life. Why are you suddenly. What is going on?

[Esther]

Cell epidural. Like they.

[Co-worker/Friend]

That's right.

[Esther]

My brain, everything just relaxes. My anxiety was gone. It was perfect.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah. What you're basically saying is if I could go out on the street and get fentanyl, I would do it.

[Esther]

Oh, yeah. So you can't get it in your, in your back.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Right.

[Kalila]

If you could walk into a bar and get it straight to your back.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

You want to be at a bar every day.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I didn't know until this birth that an epidural is based. Is fentanyl. It's just delivered into your. Because we were like, what's the difference between cycling through the fentanyl that you could get or getting epidural? They're like, oh, an epidural is fentanyl.

[Esther]

I love it on the lower half of my body. Could I get a beer in. In my Back. Like, I love to be drugged up. Pelvis down. It's so good.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You gotta try the top.

[Kalila]

Yeah, it's pretty great.

[Additional Co-worker]

It's like, I get why those people are slumped over on the side.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Exactly.

[Kalila]

But, you know, if you had gotten the fol and they had given you the fentanyl iv, you do get the

[Esther]

top half then I had that last time. But I was so just like, I. It's not going to be enough. Like, I want.

[Kalila]

Yeah. You're a bottom half fentanyl for sure catheter.

[Esther]

Like, let's rock that.

[Co-worker/Friend]

At this point, the baby was sunny side up. And you.

[Esther]

Oh, my God.

[Kalila]

Right?

[Esther]

I write the whole time. They're like, the. So he's sunny side up. I'm like, so my life is over. Like, this is horrible.

[Co-worker/Friend]

It's going to be. When you heard that, did that increase the chances above 20% to.

[Esther]

I know. I think that's what got me to 20.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah. Okay.

[Esther]

They're like, it's fine. They usually flip. Yeah. I'm like, no, they don't.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I could understand being like, just concerned about it, but you seem so convinced that this was going to be a serious complication.

[Esther]

Because again, what goes back to Kalila's like, point about the tick tock algorithm, it's like we hear these. Like, we study births and we hear.

[Kalila]

But only the bad ones there, not the good ones.

[Esther]

Yeah, I mean, bad. Bad news sells more papers.

[Co-worker/Friend]

When the doctor says, oh, my wife is one of those women in the minor. You. That changes everything to you, like having a concrete example of someone.

[Esther]

Yes. And also the fact that the woman who did it is the wife of the anesthesiologist. So I'm like, she would do the

[Kalila]

right thing because she would advise you.

[Esther]

He's in her ear and he's got the real t. Okay, let's. So maybe you should be an anesthesiologist so I could be more peaceful for our next birth. Just kidding. I'm sorry. I know we're done. I know we're done at two. I'm sorry I brought it up. We'll talk about it in two years.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Two years. In two years, I'm going to be 75 years old again. So it was the fact that it was a doctor, an anesthesiologist's wife, but that's everything.

[Kalila]

I. I got to Esther's point, though. That is at that point, that's like gospel. Like, that is from, like, the very head of the CIA.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

Like, he is the guy who would that. To give you that, you know, peace of mind.

[Esther]

But that's his wife.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But that doesn't mean that that's the right thing to do. It just means that for her, it was the right thing to do.

[Kalila]

Not to say about the anesthesiologist hating his wife, but do you see that anesthesiologist tried to kill his wife in Hawaii?

[Esther]

Of course. Yeah. I've been listening about it every night on World News Tonight.

[Co-worker/Friend]

He tried to kill her.

[Kalila]

Yeah. He tried to inject her with some fun lower half fentanyls. I don't know what it was, but.

[Esther]

Oh, maybe the bottom. What,

[Kalila]

and try to push her off. That was the plan. And then she got it. She was able to, like, kind of push him off. And then he proceeded to, like, try to take her down with a rock.

[Esther]

This is part of the Mid America News. My new thing is I fall asleep to world news Tonight every night. So I'm getting, like, your classic dose of American news.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You're getting, like, dad news.

[Esther]

Yes. There's also a man whose wife fell off a boat.

[Kalila]

Yeah, that's like a Sleeping with the Enemy.

[Esther]

What's that?

[Kalila]

Julia Roberts 90s movie?

[Esther]

Oh, I need to watch it. Okay. I want. I only watch movies when I'm pregnant, so I'll have to get to it in two years. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm joking. It's a joke. I'm just joking for the sake of comedy podcast. Okay, let's get back to.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Here's the thing in your mind. The idea of having another baby is so exciting to you right now because you want to have, like, a baby at home. We have a baby at home. That you can do.

[Esther]

My brain, it's so bad. It's like, if I eat, like, a really delicious meal, I'm already like, oh,

[Co-worker/Friend]

I could have this again tomorrow at the same time. Yeah.

[Esther]

So it's just. This is just my brain. We'll just have to let it work itself out.

[Kalila]

I also think that a labor for you is a very, like, victorious event.

[Esther]

It is the recital. It is the Broadway opening night.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

It is, like, literally on our way there, I was listening to fucking ragtime. Broadway original cat, new new Broadway cast.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Wait, I think we should talk about the dry run that we had to do. When I drove you to the.

[Esther]

Oh, yeah. When I thought I was in labor and Dave was literally driving below the speed limit, I'm like, what man drives his wife to the hospital slower than all the other cars? Like, because it's on one hand, I'm like, okay, When I get really freaked out, like, it is nice that Dave is more. He stays calm, but it's like, you're not supposed to be asleep at the wheel. Like, that's. Call.

[Co-worker/Friend]

If I could defend myself. I feel like I got some. I wouldn't say conflicting instructions, but you have. I have to balance. Don't go, like, you don't go over any speed bumps or potholes or. If you do, you have to. Right. That combined with, like, get there quickly.

[Esther]

Yeah. My boobs are too painful.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I was driving whatever 33 and a 35, and. And Esther was like, what are you doing?

[Esther]

It was crazy. Suddenly I'm like, why is it. What's. Am I in a horse and buggy? Like, why am I. Why is it so slow? And then I look at his speedometer. I'm like, dave, wake up. Your wife is in labor. Even though I wasn't. I was faking it, apparently.

[Co-worker/Friend]

No, you weren't faking. We. We thought. We. Yeah, there was a moment there where was like, oh, this is it. But that was, what, three weeks before he was born.

[Kalila]

That's crazy. That, like, Braxton Hicks can last for three weeks, girl.

[Esther]

I was having contractions just all day, every day. That's why I didn't want to come in, because they were, like, exhausting me. And I was like, is this what's happening?

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

The exciting thing is that, like, everything was just, like, working. Like, they. The Foley balloon, they put it in. They're like, okay, every hour for the next four hours, we're gonna tug on it to see. The first time they come in, they're like, oh, it fell out.

[Kalila]

Well, that's when you texted me, and you were like, they took it out after, like, an hour and a half

[Esther]

or something like that.

[Kalila]

And that's. Aloha was like, oh, she's gonna give birth in, like, tonight.

[Esther]

You knew?

[Kalila]

Yeah. Because I had done the Foley, and it was not that length.

[Esther]

Really?

[Kalila]

Yeah. And because I was like, first baby. Right. So when I. When. When I knew that the Foley was out, I was like, oh, she's at least three or four.

[Esther]

Yeah, four, I think.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Around here. After the epidural, you basically. You didn't notice when you were having contractions anymore, or you would occasionally be like, am I having one? But they were not painful because of the epidural, I guess. But you would cough, and then the nurses would look at and be like, she's having a contraction.

[Esther]

This was my big victorious moment. When the nurse goes. She's looking at the monitor. She Hears me cough. She sees the contraction. She's like, oh, you really are coughing every time you contract. I'm like, yeah, that's what I've been saying. No one believed me. Like, it was. They were like, oh, I guess they said it's crazy.

[Co-worker/Friend]

This is really strange.

[Esther]

Like, we've never seen this before.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Really.

[Kalila]

It would make sense. Sense to me, though.

[Esther]

Right. Because it, like, constricts everything, and then you get.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

Like, your breathing gets short. They're like, we've never seen this. It's like, finally.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Just to add some medical details at this point, just so we're at about 8pm now, and they. The Foley balloon is in and. And Pitocin is administered.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay. And you were very happy that the balloon didn't hurt. That was a big relief.

[Esther]

Yes. But what was so good as you could feel it, but you don't feel the pain. So you feel them fingering you and messing with you, and it doesn't hurt. It's just. You're like, oh, I know they're doing it.

[Kalila]

Especially if you know exactly what happens to the Foley. It can be really just, like. It makes people queasy. Right. Because you're inflating this thing and then forcefully yanking it out to open up

[Esther]

the space and just to finally have peace after nine months of the throwing up, the pelvic floor, tightness, the. The every. Just to finally have that peace is so beautiful.

[Kalila]

At this point, the anxiety was gone.

[Esther]

Yeah. The epidural kicked that anxiety. Like, I don't even need it in the brain. My pelvis. My brain is in my pelvis.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I guess the balloon came out at about 9. Meshi pulled it out.

[Esther]

Our amazing nurse, who I'm in love

[Co-worker/Friend]

with, came out on the first hour. They tug it every hour, and it came out the first time. And that means that you're, like, moving along.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Then at 10:40, you. We think your water breaks. Did it? We later confirmed that it broke.

[Esther]

Oh, yeah. I'm just. No, they come in, they're like, okay, time to go to sleep. We're gonna wait till the morning to break your water.

[Kalila]

At this point, how dilated were you?

[Esther]

I don't know, like, four. Still. I hadn't had another check, so I'm like, okay, like, time to go to sleep. Then I'm sitting there. I feel a pop up here, Which I didn't know that was a thing, but I'm like, that was weird. I've never felt that before. Maybe my water broke. And she comes and she's like, let's see. She's like, yeah, your water broke. I'm like, holy. Like, it's all happening on its own. Well, not really. It's an induction, but.

[Kalila]

But that's still on its own. And at that point they say like when your water breaks, that's when the contractions really. It's like really ramp up.

[Esther]

Right.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Your contractions at this point were every three to five minutes. And then when they also ordered for nebulizer and kapha innocent at this point because you were coughing a lot and getting shortness of breath.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

Oh, you did have shortness of breath. Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

And I asked you how you're feeling. What would, what would you guess? You said?

[Esther]

At this point, I probably was feeling

[Co-worker/Friend]

really excited, Excited, curious, All the feelings. That's what you said.

[Esther]

Okay. And then, but before that, remember I made a video where I was like, if you're watching this, I passed away because I was like so convinced. So, yeah, the water broke on its own.

[Co-worker/Friend]

And then they do a cervical check. Now you're 4 centimeters. This is just before 11pm You're 80% effaced. I don't know what that means. Negative 2. I don't know what that means.

[Kalila]

Okay, we know, we know.

[Esther]

It's fine. Keep going.

[Co-worker/Friend]

This is how you feel when I talk about like poker. Poker, baseball or.

[Esther]

Yeah, even comedy.

[Co-worker/Friend]

How to write a joke.

[Esther]

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[Esther]

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[Esther]

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[Kalila]

Look what I'm wearing today.

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[Kalila]

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[Esther]

Wait I'm wearing my favorite skims. I'm not going to show it.

[Kalila]

They're too envy worthy during postpartum. Can I just say this? I didn't have to switch sizes at all and my body changed a lot. But they were so stretchy and so comfortable. I didn't need to like buy more.

[Esther]

Well, I will say I am switching sizes personally. That's your lucky experience. But I want to talk about the Everyday Cotton Collection. It is my new favorite. I'm wearing the Scoop bra right now, but the Triangle Everyday Cotton is like a new formulation, like a new cut. It's so sexy that it's like kind of the only way where I can enjoy my new body. We'll call it. But I really love the Skims Everyday Cotton collection. I've exclusively been wearing it in my postpartum because I just need something that's obviously cotton and I need something that's just going to be really comfortable. You guys can shop Everyday Cotton and all of our favorite bras and [e-mail] and after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you slash select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Financial stress can really take a toll on your mental health, which can lead to problems just emotionally in relationships. And 88 of Americans are feeling some form of financial stress at the start of 2026. And money worries often bring anxiety, sleep disruption, and even depression.

[Kalila]

The most valuable thing that I got from therapy in the last couple years is she said this to me. She's like, kalila, I money is such a sore subject for you because it was the reason why my family fought a lot when I was younger. I never wanted to talk about it. It was something that it was just not open for discussion. But she was like, we're going to find a way for you to talk about money with your partners, with your family, with your friends. And that's the one thing I got from therapy. Like, I now know how to discuss finances without sweating like buckets. I learned the tools in therapy and so if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, we highly recommend Better Help. Better Help has quality therapists who work according to strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US and

[Esther]

we're not talking about financial advice. We're talking about managing the stress and even support or even learning to talk

[Kalila]

about money in a healthy way. Right. Without freaking out or without like cussing

[Esther]

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[Kalila]

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[Esther]

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[Kalila]

Yeah, I'm not a protein bar girly at all. I actually don't like, like you said, packaged foods. I don't like a lot of processed foods. But this IQ Bar not only is delicious, it's got the good stuff.

[Esther]

That's my favorite flavor, the chocolate sea salt you're holding. This is actually one thing that I did eat postpartum in my hospital. When Dave left and came back, I was like, grab me my IQ bars. I'm not kidding you.

[Kalila]

Lots of really well thought out flavors.

[Esther]

Okay? Literally, who is making more flavors than IQ Bar? Like this is banana nut. I'm sorry, what? Matcha Chai. I like the almond butter, the peanut butter, the chocolate, the lemon blueberry. Like there's so, so good. I need these in my bag at all times.

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[Co-worker/Friend]

Visit for hers.com 11:30 they increase the epidural because. Because the cramping pain was increasing.

[Kalila]

Oh, it came back. You did start to feel it.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

Well, I didn't know. I was. I was like, I'm feeling. Then the mesh, the nurse was like, yeah, you're feel. You need more epidural.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Then at 11:40, I have two words written down here that I don't love to say out loud, but it is bloody show. Don't know what that means.

[Esther]

Can you explain that?

[Kalila]

It's a bloody show. Sometimes you can have a bloody show at any point in time in the same way that you can use your. Lose your mucus plug at any time. Yeah, right. But a bloody show is. Is just about game time.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay. I wish I had written game time. Now. Nurse Meshi at this point says, I think he's turned over. Not through any like, anything other than sort of like intuition and experience.

[Esther]

She was like, it's. You're moving along fast. I'm pretty sure that means she's like, he turned over.

[Kalila]

Really? And she just knew that.

[Esther]

Yeah, she's just like, he's turned over.

[Co-worker/Friend]

She just. From like, she's been through this before and usually they do it on their own and then they turn the Pitocin off because your body was like doing this on its own.

[Kalila]

Okay, so cool.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Then. Do you know what the next thing that happens is?

[Esther]

The vomiting.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Esther]

I started violently vomiting just after midnight.

[Kalila]

Did that happen the first time with you?

[Esther]

Yes.

[Kalila]

Yes. And that's when you know, it's like you're nine to ten, it's ready.

[Esther]

I didn't know that. That's what she said to me.

[Kalila]

It's like the shivers or the vomit, but the vomit, it's like, you're right there, you're ready.

[Esther]

And I had actually turned down a cervical check. I had asked the nurse, like, maybe should I have done it? And she's like, I think you should do it. She's like, I'm like, I just want to avoid infection, you know, because I had the infection last time. Well, I remember she Said the, well, the best way to avoid an infection is to have the baby. And I was like, let's do the check.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah. It took a while to get the check for some reason, but they. You were fully dilated?

[Esther]

Yeah. They came in.

[Kalila]

What time is it? 1:58. Wow.

[Co-worker/Friend]

And then Esther throws up again. And then they're like, you're gonna have this baby soonish. And they started prepping for delivery at 1.

[Esther]

Yeah. They're like, it's time to push.

[Kalila]

Is your doctor there at this point?

[Esther]

No, my doctor was never there because.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah, she hadn't been on call yet.

[Esther]

She was coming at 7am and that's why we're trying to wait till 7am but it was just happening too fast, so I wasn't gonna get to be with her.

[Co-worker/Friend]

The short version of the actual birth pushing is that it was in incredibly fast.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

So to just to like jump to the end or the last couple notes I have. At 1:35am you were doing pretty well. And you were like, I'm feeling that. Like this is what you said. I'm feeling that crampy pressure up front. And they were like, yeah, that's a full on contraction. Like you're about to give birth. And you sort of didn't believe them.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You have not started pushing yet.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Kalila]

Is that because it was just happening? You thought it was too soon?

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

Fast. Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Twenty minutes later, the baby was born.

[Esther]

Wow.

[Co-worker/Friend]

So the baby's born at 1:58am and there's only seven minutes of pushing.

[Kalila]

Wow.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Four contractions.

[Esther]

It was four contractions, but the first one, I'd like forgot what to do.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I didn't really do it. Three, basically. Three contractions of pushing and then the

[Esther]

baby, they were like, like the second contraction. There were the second time of pushing. They're like, okay, we see his head. I'm like, what?

[Co-worker/Friend]

Well, they were also so chill. It was almost weird.

[Esther]

The last birth, the doctor's like, all right, let's go, let's go.

[Co-worker/Friend]

It was like, come on.

[Kalila]

Really?

[Esther]

You got this. It was like coat football.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Very like pump you up.

[Kalila]

Like, I wonder if it's because they know second birth. I wonder kind of.

[Co-worker/Friend]

It's a different hospital, so maybe it's a culture thing. I don't know.

[Esther]

I actually part of me thinks it's because my first birth there was so much going wrong that there was an urgency to get the baby out.

[Kalila]

I see, I see. Cuz you had a. There was a fever going on. There's meconium, leconium. Oh, yeah. That is an emergency. Yeah.

[Esther]

So it was like, let's go. And this one, it was two women sitting at the edge of the bed. I thought one of them was asleep. They're like, okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

They're like, you're doing great. Like, this is really moving.

[Kalila]

Wow.

[Esther]

They were, like, literally sleeping.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Push.

[Esther]

So I just didn't understand what was happening.

[Co-worker/Friend]

They got a little, you know, when it was time to push, they would coach you appropriately. It wasn't like, malpractice or anything. Far from it.

[Esther]

I do feel bad that afterwards I was like, were you sleeping? And the doctor's like, what?

[Co-worker/Friend]

You asked her that?

[Kalila]

Wait, who was the doctor that came in?

[Esther]

It was like, someone from the practice. Like, one of my doctors, like, partners. And she was great. Honestly. Like, everyone at that practice had. Has the same, like, very friendly, calm energy. But when he came out and they put him on me, I literally was like, what's going on? Like, I was in such a state of shock.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

That I did not understand how fast this baby came out. Like, I didn't. I never felt, like, stressed or strained or, like, scared. Like, it just was so quick. Like, second. When they say second babies come fast. Like, don't be like me. Believe them. Like, the door to door birth induction, it was six hours. Like, like. And the last one was, like, 25 hours.

[Kalila]

Wow.

[Esther]

One thing that really does suck is how this birth, because it went so well. It really highlights, like, how bad my first one went. And. What?

[Co-worker/Friend]

I just want Ace to grow up and hear this.

[Esther]

No, I love. I know, but it just, like. Like, I did not get that, like, skin to skin with her. And I didn't. Like, like, like, with this baby, it's like, oh, the baby's on your chest. You have a baby. Like, oh. And that didn't happen at all. It did not. Like, it wasn't until the next day

[Co-worker/Friend]

happened for we got a minute with her, and then they took her away.

[Esther]

But it was so such a scary minute. Like, it was. And I was like, take her. Like, make sure she's okay. Like, it just. I'm really struggling with how I feel. Like, everything went wrong. Even though I was so happy with that birth because I had my baby, but just the difference is. Is really upsetting.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

It's really painful for me to, like, to face that, like, how I just really got gypped.

[Kalila]

I also want to validate that. Like, you know, that aces. The whole experience with Ace was scary because meconium is a real thing. And then you. You, bro, you had a Fever, like, soon after that. But, like, given all of that, I do feel like everything went right. Like, I think that all the interventions were done correctly. Like, everything was done by protocol and you got to go home with, like, everything was done correctly is what. What I'll say.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I think also, like, you know, you have the lived experience of two very different sort of, like, births, and if you zoom out, the scale of things that can go wrong or be scary during pregnancy and birth is, like, much larger than the difference between the two births that we had. And I think Kalila's, like, totally right that we are exceptionally lucky. And, like. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. You don't disagree with that.

[Esther]

And that was my perspective.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Esther]

It's just. And I still feel that.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But, yeah, you wish you could have had with Ace what you had with.

[Esther]

There's just this magical, like, experience that understand. I literally didn't have, like.

[Kalila]

Yeah. But also by nature of just. Just birthing for the very first time, it's going to be 25 hours long, if not longer, and it's going to

[Esther]

be end in a C section or it's going to.

[Kalila]

Right. It's just brutal. The first time is. Is. Is hard no matter what for everybody. Right.

[Esther]

Which is almost like this economic thing of, like, well, if the first one is so bad, I feel like I

[Co-worker/Friend]

know where this is.

[Esther]

And then the second one is better. It's like, well, now it's so easy.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I feel like you're saying this is a. An almost an economic thing to somehow trick me into thinking that it's not going to be ludicrously expensive to have three children or something.

[Esther]

Well, like, is that what's going on? You've already paid the sunk cost of one hard birth, and now after that, it's like, buy one full price.

[Co-worker/Friend]

This is what doctors say.

[Esther]

The second one, that is half price.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Exact language that doctors.

[Kalila]

I will remind you that pregnancy the second time around was just as bad for you.

[Esther]

That's true. And arguably even worse.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah, worse. And you also were like, I can't be away from my.

[Esther]

It was. Yeah. That was also because you were.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Sorry. You were basically, like, in bed most of the time and you couldn't be with Ace.

[Esther]

I know. It broke my heart.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Esther]

And I feel also like I came out of this birth having a newborn and then suddenly having a toddler, too, that I did wasn't, like, experiencing.

[Co-worker/Friend]

She's so cool, though.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

I was low key. Kind of bummed that three when you guys Went to the hospital three weeks for the Braxton Hicks because I was the emergency person.

[Esther]

Oh, yeah.

[Kalila]

Because I was like, I was already prepping for. I'm like, oh, we get. We get to have Ace for.

[Esther]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

By the way, shout out to grandma. My mom.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Because she was. She was with us and was. Stayed in our house while we gave birth.

[Esther]

Yeah. That was not.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah, that was cool.

[Kalila]

And so golden hour.

[Esther]

I go, I. I love my son.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But I mean, we have videos from, like, right from the moments after, and Esther is literally going, like, everything's like. What's going, like, literally. Shock is the correct word. Like, she could not believe that she was holding her son. Like, he's okay. Everything's. It's over.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

It was weird. And they were like, yeah, he's. Everything's good. He's doing good.

[Esther]

And all the fears that were instilled in me, like, oh, he has a huge head. He's really big.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You were so worried about how it's

[Esther]

like, he slid out. Like, I don't know what's going on down there.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

Like, sorry. But.

[Kalila]

But even if you have.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Are you sorry?

[Esther]

There's been expansion, like, there's been adding on.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I think maybe it's just a factor of, like, maybe you just got worked up. Up about something that was never going to be that.

[Esther]

Oh, no. I'm just saying. I think my vagina's.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I know what you're trying to say, and I'm trying to steer it in a different direction, and it's obviously not working.

[Esther]

So it bounces back. It bounces back.

[Kalila]

Well, you had already picked a name.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Pretty much.

[Esther]

No, we weren't official.

[Co-worker/Friend]

We weren't official, but we had a leading contender.

[Esther]

Yeah, for sure.

[Kalila]

And did you want to wait to, like, see him and feel him?

[Co-worker/Friend]

But also. So, I mean, part of this, if I may say so, is that, like, we had a name, but also I had for nine months or however many months been asking Esther, like, if she liked any other names for boys, and she could not give a single name that she liked besides the one which is a family name that we landed on. So there I was like, okay, like, last chance. Like, boy names are hard, especially for Esther. I had a bunch that I liked, and Esther was like, I don't like any of these names. Except for this one. I kind of. I mean, I think you grew to like it. And then once he was born, it feels like, really? Prof.

[Esther]

So I like the name. It's. His name is Bernard. What I do like about is that it's like an old. I would say it like it. Yeah, it's a ugly. Oh, okay.

[Kalila]

It's so not. My very first crush of my life was named Bernard.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Really?

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

But I say that, like, how I feel about my name. It's like kind of one of those old, ugly, classic names. And I just. What I like about Bernard is that no one else is using it. It's not popular. Like, I. My criteria for a baby name is that no one's going to use it. Like, it's not popular at all. I. One name I really did like was Samuel, because that's my dad's middle name. And it's also my grandmother's main and last name was Samuel Sarah. But that name itself is just so common that I didn't want that as a first name. So his middle name is Samuel because my grandmother did pass away while I was pregnant with him, unfortunately. And that has led to a lot of family drama, which we can get into on the Patreon later.

[Co-worker/Friend]

That's a whole. I'm not sticking around for that discussion. That's a whole other episode. So say Bernard, Samuel. But we mostly. Bernard is my grandfather's name who I love very deeply. He was like, just a unconditional, loving man. A. A big loving sweetheart of a guy. My mom's dad and I loved him deeply. And so, yeah, I'm really happy about it. But we call him Bernie most of the time. But also, we, like, that could be, like, he could. He could be Bernard later in life if he wants to go by Bernard or Bear or Bernie or, like, all

[Kalila]

options are so great. I. You know, the moment you said Bernard, I was very.

[Co-worker/Friend]

So cool.

[Kalila]

I love it.

[Esther]

I'm so. I'm into it even more now that he's born.

[Co-worker/Friend]

And I think there was a time, if he had been born 10 years ago, I don't think you could do it because of Bernie Sanders. But I think that, like, enough time has passed, and I don't think people he goes to school with will associate him with that at all. You know what I mean?

[Esther]

Well, I don't.

[Kalila]

My.

[Esther]

I am a Bernie bro. Yeah, part of me loves that, too, about it.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I. I don't disagree with that. But.

[Esther]

But I almost didn't want to name him that because I. I wanted it, like, to wait till Bernie Sanders passes away, because you're not supposed to name a Jewish person after someone unless they. They've died.

[Kalila]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Well, he's okay.

[Esther]

Like, you could not.

[Co-worker/Friend]

My grandfather has passed away, so it's okay.

[Esther]

But I told Dave, I was like, just so you know, if you die, like, I'm naming our son Dave. But I. Because I like the name Dave and wanted to name him Dave.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah, I know. It almost felt like you were rooting for me to die because you were like, that's the only name I. That's the only other boys they might like. I felt like I might have to die just so you had a name that you didn't.

[Esther]

And also I had posted on Instagram, like, the hint for the name that someone famous. His name. Because there's a famous Knicks player, Bernard King. He has gotten into some legal trouble in his.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah, he's still alive, but he's like a Hall of fame basketball. So, like, guys my age, if you say Bernard King, most people are like, like the basketball player. Some people are.

[Kalila]

Did they put Bernie on your boob immediately?

[Esther]

No, not until we got into the postpartum room.

[Kalila]

Oh, really?

[Esther]

Yeah. And I was like, okay, he knows how to suck on a titty. Okay. My son can get it. Wait, by the way, it's such a

[Kalila]

huge thing because if they have a good latch right out the gate, like, that's a big win.

[Esther]

Yeah. Which I will boldly appreciate and, like, proudly state that win. Because I had such a loss on the first one where I did not get the opportunity to breastfeed at all. Like, there was just. It just did not work out. And it has been something that has been really hard for me.

[Co-worker/Friend]

She was in the NICU for two days immediately after just.

[Esther]

And we walk in for people that

[Co-worker/Friend]

would see the first episode.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

We walk in an embarrassing level of details about the birthday.

[Esther]

She's getting formula. No one showed me how to try to latch her. Like, I did just. I didn't know what I didn't know like you said. And so I. Breastfeeding was just. Poof. It was gone. I have two completely different feeding journeys. One was completely formula. And right now I'm like, basically, he was o. I'm getting the tingles.

[Kalila]

Oh, he's getting a let down.

[Esther]

I'm going to leak soon. But, yeah, so this is my. Basically, this is my first time breastfeeding. And that has added a whole. Another, like, different. It's hard.

[Kalila]

It's a. It's a different journey for sure.

[Esther]

Yeah, it's definitely like, I'm tired, whereas last time I was a lot less tired.

[Kalila]

Wait, did you tear this time?

[Esther]

Exact same tear.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Did you hear that, co workers? My wife got the same tear this time on her vagina. That she did the first time giving birth.

[Esther]

Yeah. Yeah. We actually were losing date.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I'm sorry.

[Esther]

So. But before he goes, I believe Esther

[Additional Co-worker]

told us you once said you would carry the baby for her if you could. And Esther said that's kind of gay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay. I obviously wish that I could, like, spend a month or, like, that we could trade off or something.

[Esther]

That's nice of you.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Well, it's easy to say. There's no way to actually do it. It's sort of an empty gesture.

[Esther]

That's true.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah. I don't think it's gay to carry a baby. Or kind of gay. Is that what you said? I guess this feels particularly thorny.

[Esther]

Yeah, but for me, not for you.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah, I guess. Okay.

[Additional Co-worker]

Would you like to address the scratching the legs until there's blood?

[Kalila]

Oh, the blood situation.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

So I've been accused. Of what?

[Esther]

Well, our sheets are covered in blood stains, and people always think, oh, it's the woman as.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Right.

[Esther]

But.

[Co-worker/Friend]

So this is my fault. I have no defense here other than, like, when I'm, like, asleep or half asleep, I scratch my leg. With the other leg. Yeah, with, like, my toenails.

[Esther]

And you're always bleeding.

[Co-worker/Friend]

What am I supposed to do about that? I can't.

[Esther]

Maybe you need leg braces.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You think? Leg braces? It feels like we could start with, like, filing my nails or something.

[Kalila]

Speaking of your nails, I do have one. I. Esther, in great detail, explained how you had, like, mangly hands because of your ra. And I'm looking at them right now, and they look completely normal.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay, so.

[Kalila]

But she did say they were hot. She said she's like, he's hot. His hands. Because they look like this.

[Co-worker/Friend]

My hands. I don't have full mobility in my hands because I have. I have an autoimmune disease. It's actually juvenile arthritis, but it basically manifests. That's the same as rheumatoid arthritis.

[Kalila]

I'm so sorry, Dave. I'm looking at them like they look fine.

[Co-worker/Friend]

They are fine. But I have what they call, like, swanning or something of my fingers. They go, like, a little bit.

[Kalila]

They flare out.

[Co-worker/Friend]

These bones? Yeah, they flare. These bones have sort of clouded together, so I can't go, like, all the way forward.

[Kalila]

Amazing. I hate limp wrists. Anyway, so it has become.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I sort of have. But they're, like, masculine, but sort of, like, awkward. It's re. They're fine.

[Kalila]

They do look great.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Fine with my hands, but it is. They're not perfect.

[Kalila]

I thought that we were, like. Esther made it seem like contracted completely.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Luckily I have not. When I first had it, my hands were like immobile. I could only go like this. Or when it first developed as an adult. Oh yeah.

[Kalila]

Oh, that is very.

[Esther]

Wait, you have it?

[Kalila]

Yeah, but I have ed. I have connective tissue. Do you have eds?

[Co-worker/Friend]

I don't know. I just have this. I don't know. Is that.

[Esther]

This is me.

[Kalila]

Wait, go. But Esther.

[Esther]

Kila.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah. She can't. It is weird.

[Kalila]

Like, why is you try Kyla.

[Esther]

I am trying. How about like can remember we were at a party.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Esther]

And this guy was like do it.

[Co-worker/Friend]

He's like, why are your figures so far apart? Okay, well, I have this thing I just met do.

[Esther]

I loved it. I was like, I love that guy's energy. Why not ask?

[Co-worker/Friend]

Totally. That's cool. I'm fine with that.

[Kalila]

Little solidarity.

[Co-worker/Friend]

You know what's funny? When you do it, I'm like, good Lord. But it's not that different than mine.

[Esther]

So freaky.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah. Weird.

[Additional Co-worker]

Esther was telling us how you bring home. Is it Lavon cookies?

[Esther]

Oh yeah.

[Additional Co-worker]

She gets mad at you every time for doing it. Is you. Have you changed the strategy? He's still doing it.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I still am going to. To bring them home occasionally. This is. She wants me to. She. I think you want me to bring them home and then be like, no, now I'm going to eat it.

[Esther]

It's both. I do legitimately get mad. Well when I was pregnant. Really. Cuz it would make like I couldn't hold it in.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I got to tell you, I've come around to your side.

[Esther]

Oatmeal raisin.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I think it's their best cookie.

[Esther]

It is their best cookie. Really?

[Kalila]

Yes. I have to. I have to really side by side. I'm going to go with aloha today.

[Esther]

Cuz even last time I was like, I switch the chocolate chip and I was like, no, it's good.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Look, their chocolate chip. This is Levant Levon Levain on the. The one in LA is on large.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

If I'm at Larchmont for. For another reason, I'll stop every time

[Kalila]

you and are you getting the oatmeal because it's a galactico.

[Esther]

No, I just love. I've always loved oatmeal raisin.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Raisin is.

[Esther]

It's so good.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Flames. Honestly.

[Esther]

Yeah, it's flames.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But I like. They had a coffee toffee for a while that I was into.

[Esther]

I think that's what it was called. That was your main choice.

[Co-worker/Friend]

That's. It's so classic you to be like, don't do that. Oh, you got another. You brought it again. Oh, now I have to eat it. You obviously want it.

[Esther]

It's great.

[Kalila]

Esther has brought it up multiple times over the years about how early in your relationship she got a foot long and you got a six inch from Subway.

[Co-worker/Friend]

This has, like, become my, like, villain. Origin story is that I got a 6 inch sub at Subway. Would you ask for a foot long?

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I don't remember the incident. I only do. Yeah. My guess is that I had probably just eaten a full dinner and was like, well, if you're getting a Subway, I'll also get a sandwich.

[Esther]

We're getting lunch.

[Co-worker/Friend]

We were getting lunchtime. I mean, a 6 inch is usually what I get.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Or used to get it just so.

[Esther]

That was. Oh, I didn't want to think about it. It was just so why is that so bad to take your girlfriend's order, she's getting a foot long, and then to show up with your own 6 inch?

[Kalila]

This is so.

[Esther]

It's like, here you go, pig. Like, it's just so bad.

[Co-worker/Friend]

But I didn't see. I didn't know.

[Esther]

You didn't. It never occurred to you. I know you're just. You live in a different little world

[Co-worker/Friend]

where people are allowed to eat whatever size sandwich they have ordered, but now, you know, without getting in trouble. And, like, that is true.

[Esther]

I mean, Dave says he's never eating in front of my family again.

[Co-worker/Friend]

It's terrifying.

[Kalila]

Dying you have an almond family is why.

[Esther]

Yeah, Almond mom.

[Kalila]

Yeah, I do. I had. I do have one more.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Okay.

[Kalila]

Esther has said that you often say you wish you were gay.

[Esther]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Well, no. Okay, look, I think we need to be careful about this, but I. I don't necessarily wish I were gay, but I think that every. Not every man, but a lot of straight men have a sort of like. Because they tend to get along with their other male friends, so. Well, yeah, it's like, like tempting to be like, oh, if we just had the sexual component of this, then this is also like, before I'm like, married with children or whatever. But like, there's this temp when you're, like, hanging out with the other male friends you have. It's like, man, if we could also be like. And also. And then just whatever, watch a basketball game.

[Kalila]

Which, by the way, I feel about women. I. I'm like, I wish that I was a full blown lesbian. I think my life would be infinitely easier.

[Esther]

Imagine if I was married to Jenna. I would be so sad.

[Kalila]

So I totally get that.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I Actually think, if anything, what I should be defending here is, like, the hackiness of that idea.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

That, like, it feels like 2012. Stand up for a guy to be like, honestly, I wish I were gay. Like, my bros and I. If I could also, like, suck them off in the bathroom, we'd be like that. You know what I mean?

[Esther]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-worker/Friend]

I'm not proud of that.

[Esther]

We leave the stand up to me surprisingly against odds.

[Kalila]

Let's end on that good note.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Co-worker/Friend]

All right.

[Esther]

Thank you. I'm sorry we have to lose Dave quick because he has a work thing because he's.

[Kalila]

Thank you, Dave.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Thank you. Sorry, guys.

[Kalila]

I think your hands are perfect.

[Esther]

Okay. The other thing I want to talk about is when I came home from the hospital and I started texting you. Look at my arm.

[Kalila]

Oh, right. And I'm like, that doesn't look good.

[Esther]

My injection site was, like, red.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

And swollen when I came home from the hospital.

[Kalila]

And initially I was like, oh, maybe they hit a valve. Because, you know, sometimes they do that. They put it in right at a valve, and it causes, like, a lump. And I had that lump, especially because the gauge that they have to use the needle is very. Is a lot bigger. Right. But that one looked like phlebitis for sure.

[Esther]

Three days after we came home from the hospital, Bernie was spitting up blood. And we called the doctor on call. They're like, you have to go to the ER. We're like, are you kidding me? Like, 3:00am I'm, whatever. So we go to the ER. While we're there, I go to the nurse. I'm like, oh, by the way, could you just, like, look at my arm? And they're like, oh, we need to admit you. I'm like, are you kidding? So basically, we're at the error, all like, 3:00am, 7:00am, whatever. And Bernie was fine. The. The blood spit up, which, like you had said happened to you was from your nipples. Sorry, it's gross.

[Kalila]

But it's not. But he had some steak is what it is.

[Esther]

Okay.

[Kalila]

Ew. Well, that's how I. Because it brought me such relief because I was so scared. And I'm like, that bloody spit up is scary. But when you told me that scared

[Esther]

because you had literally told me about it before, that I, like, didn't even care. Almost most.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

I was like, Kalilo did. Had this. It's fine.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

But they're like, you have to go in. So it's a good thing we went in, basically, because then they. I had a blood clot, but it was Like a superficial blood clot. So it would have been fine, but I. It was so painful.

[Kalila]

It didn't look good. When you sent me the picture, and I saw, like, the redness around it, I was like, no, like, you gotta go in.

[Esther]

I was actually so happy it was a blood clot because I was. I didn't want it to be an infection. I was really scared.

[Kalila]

But really, the. The word cloth doesn't scare you. It scares the out of me. I'm like, do not dislod. Stay right there.

[Esther]

Well, I didn't know there was a thing as superficial blood clots, which is basically like a blood clot that is just, like, chill.

[Kalila]

Yeah. Gonna go away. And on its own.

[Esther]

But it did make me think, because you know how we're all, like. We hear about blood clots and, like, it's really scary. It hurt so bad. Does that mean that you would know it if you're gonna have one? Because they hurt.

[Kalila]

Yeah. So when you have, like, a dvt, like deep vein thrombosis here, you usually have pain, redness. Well, heat. Like, you. I had all that level. Yeah. You don't always feel them, but dvt, you can usually tell, especially because it's restricting blood flow. And so there's usually some, like, swelling, like, involved. Right. But I'm glad you got that checked out, because that worried me.

[Esther]

I know you were. You kept being like, I think you need to go in. And I was like, kalila, stop. Like, you're not saying what I want you to say, but you were, like, legit bit concerned.

[Kalila]

How did Ace react to seeing the baby for the first time?

[Esther]

She didn't really care.

[Kalila]

Yeah. She's too young, of course.

[Esther]

Donut trampled on him three times. Like, literally, like, sped up, jumped on him, jumped down. Like, she just attacked him. Who are you? Who are you? Yeah. And in terms of, like, postpartum complications, as I. As you know, I have been pissing myself for six weeks. That's not.

[Kalila]

Not the. That's not a complication you had the first time. Like, I didn't have that.

[Esther]

No, necessarily.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

No. And I will also say going through this again, since you went through it, like, experiencing it, I'm really feeling, like, even more so than before you had a disability. Like. Yeah, just anything that makes it harder than it already is is crazy. And I just feel like you literally had a straight up disability. Like, that's.

[Kalila]

Yeah, it was definitely hard. And with the air slapping my eyeball because I couldn't close it, and me having to like, tape my eyes shut and then having to, like, untape it every time my baby would wake up to nurse. So I'd had to, like, untape my. So I would keep the tape on the. On my headboard, like, kind of already pre cut so that I could just slap it on my eyeball. And, you know, I. We came back, we had to record what, like, three week. Within three weeks after that. And I was so, like, I don't know how I did it. I just know I wasn't in a good way. So, like, thank you guys for, like, really kind of, like, being so understanding.

[Esther]

Did we really record three weeks after?

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

I can't believe that my postpartum experience

[Kalila]

would have been night and day without the Bell's palsy.

[Esther]

That's.

[Kalila]

Yeah. I also think that my desire to want a second would be completely different if I didn't have Bell's palsy or if I didn't still have it.

[Esther]

It.

[Kalila]

Like, there are so many things that really affected my mental health. A lot of it was this disability that, you know. Yeah.

[Esther]

That's what I'm thinking, too, about your situation. And I feel that about my first with, like, just all the anxiety that I got from the infection and the antibiotics, because I had so much IV antibiotics that, like, my flora was messed up.

[Kalila]

Yes, that's right. I do remember that.

[Esther]

And that was, like, making. Causing me so much discomfort. Like, I just.

[Kalila]

For a long time.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

Like.

[Esther]

Like, I don't know. I'm just having this. This. This different perspective of, like, how hard this is and how you don't really know when you're in it until, like, time has passed.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

And you see, and even right now, like, I am truly wearing diapers, peeing all day in my pants this time.

[Kalila]

My ex call it a disability.

[Esther]

Yeah. This time I'm like. It's frustrating and there's times where I've been, like, really upset about it, but for the most part, I'm like, it. It's not gonna kill me. Like, it's okay.

[Kalila]

I was telling Dave when you were in the bathroom, like, I don't know who came up with a whole, like, six weeks and you're good to go. Because I cannot think of a single friend of mine or mother that I know who's like, yep, six weeks, ready to go. No, it's like, it takes months for you to finally feel, like, okay, like, this feels. Feels, you know, reminiscent of how I. I used to feel. Right.

[Esther]

Oh, yeah. I am in such healing mode, and I'm not ready to exercise. I'm ready to, like, rehabilitate.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

Slowly. I'm not going to be like, going out for a jog or even taking a long walk. Not yet, no.

[Kalila]

How's your sleep been?

[Esther]

Obviously bad, but do you feel.

[Kalila]

Do you see what I'm talking about? How like, between the prolactin and the oxytocin, like, the little sleep you do get feels really deep. With a lot of wild dreams.

[Esther]

Dreams. The dreams are crazy. I'm having like a thousand different storylines that are complicated every single night.

[Kalila]

Crazy, right? Like full cinematic movies.

[Esther]

It is unbelievable. This is. I. I can't even explain it. Like, it's just so these complex storylines that like, you know, you'll. I'll sleep from like 9 to midnight up to feed or pump. Then it's a whole. Go back to sleep. A whole new storyline has begun. Like, it is just crazy. I. I don't understand this. Again, like, I didn't have this, this, these hormones last time, cuz I didn't breastfeed. So I'm having a completely different experience. Yeah. Like, I know I don't want to talk about it too much in front of Dave, but, like, I am really, I'm really sad. Like, I'm really struggling with what I lost out on with Ace. That is just. I don't really know how I'm going to deal with that for the years to come. Like, I will feel so much guilt because she was not breastfed. I will be feeling just. Just gypped from the experience for me, because the experience can be so lovely that I'm just not. I didn't get it with her. And I feel so. I. I'm like tapped out emotionally right now, but I've been having like, a lot of tears and just like a lot of pain over it. And it's also like, when you breastfeed, you want to think about, oh, this is so good for my baby. Like, this is so magical. And I actually find that I don't want to be thinking that because then it just face. I just face what Ace Magic missed. So I'm in this position. I think I told you this before I had Bernie, but like, whether it works out with Bernie or not, it's lose, lose.

[Kalila]

I want to kind of show you the other side of what could have been as well. Right. The way I see it is, you know, Ace was a little bit more complicated. There was Macono. She was in a nicu. Like, the. There were a lot of things going on to kind of like, put A barrier between you and feeling like, okay, fine, like, let's try being breastfeeding. Right. But I also feel like, in many ways, having gone what I went through with a really rough postpartum, I felt like you bounced back physically a lot faster than me, and then you were able to have Bernie much sooner. I, I, I want to validate everything you're feeling and the guilt of all of that, and I'm sorry that you're feeling that way, but I, in many ways, there is an envy that I feel that you seem to have, have bounced back a lot faster than me and we're ready for a second. Whereas I am, like, you know, 18 months out and not even in the realm of thinking it because I still feel very broken. And I do wonder if it's like, if it had gone differently with Ace, maybe Bernie wouldn't be here immediately right now.

[Esther]

You know, I really hate that you're saying that from the perspective of your struggle, but I will just say, like, I feel like you always, this is like, your magic. Like, you always do find a way to, like, like, spin things to be, like, more positive. And that's probably why I'm so annoying to you because, like, you're so, you just. Oh, like, that is so nice. And, like, I never would have thought of that because, you know, I am really upset about it. But just to, for you to give me, like, a positive takeaway is really helpful.

[Kalila]

Things happen the way they did.

[Esther]

Yeah. And I can't change it.

[Kalila]

And by the way, I also want to let you know that when I had my baby and he was on formula for a, I had bought an entire year of formula because I thought that I was not going to be able to breastfeed.

[Esther]

Right.

[Kalila]

And I think very highly of breastfeeding, but I also think very highly of formula.

[Esther]

I do, too.

[Kalila]

And so it's like, for me, the way I see your situation is that Ace got the best version of you.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

The mentally strong version of you. Maybe not for a little bit. When you're going through your anxiety. I feel like it really just worked out out. And, and, and that's from me, like, standing over here. Right. Obviously, like, you, you know, you will process that guilt and you will process that pain, but Bernie is here because of all the cards that played out in the last, like, two years. And one of those cards that played out was you having Ace the way you had Ace and getting the sleep that you needed, and her being on formula and everyone being, being able to help and you getting.

[Esther]

Yeah, you're right.

[Kalila]

So it's like, it all worked out the way it needed to work out.

[Esther]

Thank you. And I don't want to be in any kind of place where I'm shaming the formula journey, because that is, like, the opposite of how I feel like you.

[Kalila]

And I definitely don't feel that way.

[Esther]

I'm so grateful for it. And I literally hate the people online that trash formula. Like, I think they're monsters. Like, and I also, I don't think, like, I love breastfeeding and I love that it's like, all the benefits, they say, but I don't think breast milk is like, walks on water and is like liquid gold. Like, I think it's wonderful, but I'm not like, oh, my God, this is the most. It's not. Whatever.

[Kalila]

You know, it's just a journey. It's just a different journey. It's just whatever you choose is fine. It's just a different journey.

[Esther]

Also, seeing how hard it is. I am low key. Like, oh, yeah, I guess maybe it was good that I did formula.

[Kalila]

I think so.

[Esther]

Formula does make it a lot easier on a lot in a lot of ways and whatever. So I just. I want to be very clear that I do support both. I think I'm. I feel gypped that I didn't get the option and I didn't get to make my own choice.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

And it just was, like a disaster. But thank you for having a positive spin on it. That really is helpful to hear. Yeah.

[Kalila]

It's a lot, but you look great.

[Esther]

Thanks.

[Kalila]

I don't want to speak too soon, but, like, you seem better.

[Esther]

You think better than what, the first time? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Kalila]

You seem like, okay, I know how to do this.

[Esther]

Well, it's not that, like, life explosion. The first, like, it is the first time because it's like, you know what you're. You know, it's not, you know what you're doing because I never know what I'm doing. But you've had this experience before, so you're not becoming a new person.

[Kalila]

Is it true what they say where it's like, oh, I got this. Like, you do feel.

[Esther]

No, I don't feel like that. I don't. Yeah, I know. I'm not like, oh, I'm so good at this now. Like, not at all. I just feel.

[Kalila]

I don't even. I still don't feel that way.

[Esther]

Hell, no.

[Kalila]

Like, every feel that way.

[Esther]

That's crazy.

[Kalila]

He hits a new age. I'm like, was I ready for. I don't know. What to do?

[Esther]

No.

[Kalila]

His favorite person's Bobby.

[Esther]

Like, this is a problem for another episode. That's a whole episode. Okay, that was crazy. Your lifestyle isn't changing completely with a second baby, because this is already your lifestyle. It's. I think what I said is, like. I've said this before, but, like, for my experience, zero to one is, like, you learn a whole new operating system. One to two. It's like, you already know the operating system. It's just, like, way more hard. It's way harder now because you're juggling two kids, which I still don't understand, by the way. I don't understand how. How to take care of two kids at once alone.

[Kalila]

I don't think anyone should. I mean, I know that people do, and because they don't have an option, I just feel as though, like, it is very unnatural for one person to ever take care of two very young babies without, like, five people to help at all times.

[Esther]

So.

[Kalila]

So shout out if you're doing that. Shout out to you. I think you are an avenger.

[Esther]

No, my sister did it with no help. And I'm just sitting here. I'm like, I don't. I lack. I actually don't understand. And it's so funny. I. Because. So I was having Jenna come over in the afternoon so that I could have, like, a helper. Right. And she came, and I. I suddenly go, she's got this. Yeah. Jenna can actually come over for, like, two or three hours and handle them both.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther]

And I'm like, I don't understand. I would never say this to her face because it's too nice, but it's like, she's amazing. An amazing mom.

[Kalila]

But you're also in postpartum.

[Esther]

Yes, I'm disabled into my.

[Kalila]

Who is not in postpartum? So who has the energy? Who has the sleep? Who has all of these things? And that's why moms need help, because moms, we're not operating on proper sleep. We're not operating on full energy. We're probably still anemic.

[Esther]

And I'm like, I need to go change my diaper every 30 minutes. Like, there is so much. You're right. That.

[Kalila]

That's sort of how I felt, too, like, when I. When, like, my best friend had a baby or when she. She has two now, where I'm just like, oh, I can handle her kid all day long and have a blast past. And that's because I was not postpartum.

[Esther]

I see.

[Co-worker/Friend]

Yeah.

[Esther]

You're just like.

[Kalila]

You have the energy.

[Esther]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

I'm just normal me. Right. So I would give yourself a little bit of grace there, because I think you're still very much in the thick of it, and I think you're doing great.

[Esther]

Thank you.

[Kalila]

And I think Bernie is such a cutie pie.

[Esther]

I know.

[Kalila]

And Ace is talking.

[Esther]

I think I told you. She's like, I was in the bath. She walked in, she like, mama, out. Like, okay, I'll get out.

[Kalila]

Wow. Sure thing.

[Esther]

Okay, so we're gonna end this episode and carry the rest of it over on the Patreon. So this would be a really good day to join the Patreon because we're taking questions from the slugs and. Yeah, I don't know. This is. I feel very overwhelmed. Like, I don't even know how to land this plane right now. I'm just. I'm really happy to be back.

[Kalila]

Well, first, congratulations. Huge congratulations. I can't believe you're.

[Esther]

Thank you.

[Kalila]

My little P has two babies.

[Esther]

Thank you so much to everyone on this show. Support. During my pregnancy where I was a. I was miserable. So thank you guys for the extra support. So much more to discuss next week. I want to hear all about Hawaii, too, and everything, and we're going to start talking on the Patreon. You guys, join us [e-mail] Trash Tuesday podcast. We'll see you guys there and. Or we'll see you next week with a brand new episode. Thanks, guys. Sam,