How to Take Back Your Life with/ Jacqueline Novak

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Trash Tuesday w/ Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn"

Episode Title: How to Take Back Your Life with/ Jacqueline Novak
Release Date: April 1, 2025
Hosts: Khalyla Kuhn & Esther Povitsky
Guest: Jacqueline Novak

In this episode of "Trash Tuesday," hosts Esther Povitsky and Nicole Byer are joined by guest Jacqueline Novak for an unfiltered and heartfelt conversation about personal trauma, mental health struggles, and the journey to reclaiming one's life. The trio delves into topics such as ADHD management, sleep disorders, lucid dreaming, and the impact of childhood experiences on adult behavior. Their candid dialogue provides listeners with relatable insights, coping mechanisms, and a touch of humor to navigate life's challenges.

---

1. Embracing Personal Style and Identity

The episode kicks off with Esther sharing her connection to a specific blazer, highlighting how personal attire can influence one's sense of self.

• Esther Povitsky ([00:00]):
  "I realize this is the only... I wear that blazer like every time I do anything and... it's the only fucking blazer I like that I feel like myself in."

• Nicole Byer ([00:12]):
  "I can't believe that you even can pull off a blazer. Like to me, that's the difference between child and adult."

This exchange underscores the importance of personal style in fostering self-identity and confidence.

2. Managing ADHD with Innovative Tools

Esther introduces "Watchminder 3," a specialized watch designed to assist individuals with ADHD by providing frequent reminders.

• Esther Povitsky ([01:28]):
  "It's for ADHD, the elderly, it's for whoever has needs... every five minutes I get a vibration."

Despite her initial enthusiasm, Esther candidly discusses the overwhelming nature of constant reminders.

• Esther Povitsky ([02:27]):
  "And now what I've done two days in and I can't find it right now... every five minutes I get a vibration."

Her honest portrayal reflects the delicate balance between helpfulness and intrusion in management tools.

3. Navigating Sleep Disorders and Dreams

The conversation shifts to personal sleep challenges, with Esther recounting her experiences with excessive sleep and the efforts to regulate it.

• Esther Povitsky ([18:01]):
  "In my 20s... I was just constant sleep. Sleeping so long, like 28 hours."

Jacqueline shares her ability to lucid dream, offering insights into controlling and benefiting from one's dream states.

• Jacqueline Novak ([15:32]):
  "Yeah, but in while you're having it, you're very aware that it's a dream. That's what lucid dreaming is."

Nicole discusses her persistent fatigue despite adequate sleep, pondering potential underlying causes.

• Nicole Byer ([23:14]):
  "I am getting sleep, but I'm still really tired all the time. It's freaking me out."

4. The Impact of Childhood Sleep Habits on Adult Anxiety

Nicole and Jacqueline explore how early sleep experiences influence adult behaviors and anxieties.

• Nicole Byer ([46:16]):
  "I never wanted to go to bed alone. I would have to have my mom sleep in my bed with me."

• Jacqueline Novak ([46:32]):
  "I am terrified. I did not know how to sleep alone two years ago."

Their discussions highlight the long-lasting effects of childhood sleep arrangements on mental health.

5. Coping Mechanisms: From Biofeedback to Physical Interventions

The trio delves into various strategies to manage anxiety and physiological responses.

• Esther Povitsky ([61:59]):
  "It's a mammalian diving reflex where you dunk your face in cold water... it drives your heart rate down almost instantaneously."

Jacqueline adds her method of using cold coconut water in the shower as a means to trigger relaxation.

• Jacqueline Novak ([63:26]):
  "I bring a cold coconut water in the shower with me."

These techniques emphasize the role of physical interventions in regulating emotional and physiological states.

6. Creativity and the Pursuit of Flow State

Esther references Mikhail Csikszentmihalyi's concept of the flow state, discussing its significance in achieving happiness and productivity.

• Esther Povitsky ([52:12]):
  "People are happiest in the flow state. They're happier in the flow state than they are when they're just happy."

Nicole shares her struggles with performance anxiety, illuminating the challenges of maintaining creative momentum.

• Nicole Byer ([69:15]):
  "I felt like, he hates me. I'm this little brat."

7. Relationship Dynamics and Societal Pressures

The discussion touches on how relationships and societal expectations shape individual behaviors and stress levels.

• Nicole Byer ([24:22]):
  "What's wrong with me? Because I am laying in bed and I'm exhausted."

• Esther Povitsky ([50:54]):
  "All those fears that instill in your head... Which way could I live with more?"

Acknowledging these pressures, the hosts emphasize the importance of self-acceptance and understanding personal limits.

8. Inventions and Systems for Enhanced Living

Esther and the guests brainstorm potential inventions and systems to better manage daily challenges, such as transcribing thoughts or enhancing creativity.

• Jacqueline Novak ([55:36]):
  "Something where I can just be like, boop. And it's downloading all of this vivid, like, ambitious because I've already in the shower."

• Esther Povitsky ([56:11]):
  "But that's it. That's why... What else do I got going in here?"

Their collaborative ideas reflect a desire to integrate technology seamlessly into personal development.

9. Overcoming Childhood Trauma and Building Resilience

Towards the episode's end, Esther shares her breakthrough in confronting recurring nightmares, symbolizing a step toward healing.

• Esther Povitsky ([38:54]):
  "If you're able to do this in the dream... This is like my bastardization of some Jungian whatever."

• Jacqueline Novak ([40:32]):
  "It's like making friends with your demons."

This segment underscores the therapeutic potential of facing and understanding one's inner fears.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Esther Povitsky ([07:00]):
  "I have a completely empty one of these from last year with, like, two entries and from the previous year."

• Nicole Byer ([72:07]):
  "You’re the only hour of my week where I feel seen and understood while I'm just cleaning."

• Jacqueline Novak ([65:44]):
  "I haven't let go of this play pretend thing."

---

Conclusion:

"Trash Tuesday" offers an intimate glimpse into the lives of its hosts and guests, tackling profound personal issues with honesty and humor. The episode serves as a testament to the power of open dialogue in overcoming adversity and striving for personal growth. Listeners are left with valuable takeaways on managing mental health, the significance of self-awareness, and the continual journey of taking back one's life.

For more episodes and content, follow "Trash Tuesday" on their Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.

Transcript

[Esther Povitsky]

I realized this is the only. I was like, I wear that blazer like every time I do anything and it's like, it's like the only fucking blazer I like that I feel like myself in.

[Nicole Byer]

I. First of all, I can't believe that you even can pull off a blazer. Like to me, that's the difference between child and adult. And I look at you and I'm instantly, oh, I'll never.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's that. See that is so interesting because I. This, I was stepping it up for you. I'm going, this is a studio. I'm putting on a blazer. I put on a shoe. I was like, to me, this is a shoe. Cause I have a sneaker. That's a very serious shoe, you know. And yeah, I stepped it up.

[Nicole Byer]

What's the necklace?

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh this, this is my friend einsteinsnyc. It's like vintage collection from the 80s. And then right now I am simultaneously using it. I forgot I was gonna take it off before the pod.

[Nicole Byer]

Are you a time traveler?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes, I've got a few things going. Okay, you want to know what this is?

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

So obviously the strap is broken. That's why I'm wearing it this way.

[Nicole Byer]

It's giving crazy lady right out the gate.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Actually I have, I've kept all my swatch faces from when I was a kid and still have them. Just the straps are beautiful but you have to keep them.

[Esther Povitsky]

Cuz they. Yeah, I have like the jelly strap that like it recently like disintegrated.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah, they disintegrate.

[Esther Povitsky]

But this is a. Okay. There's a psychologist, he sells one item, this. You get it off his website.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay, I'm in.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's a watch, it's called Watchminder 3. I want to do a collaboration and it's for ADHD, the elderly, it's for whoever has needs. Okay. And it. You can set up these different things, these like little reminders, you know, you could set it up where like all throughout the day it's like brush your teeth or whatever. It does knock. But what I've been doing with it because I'm like determined to take back my life is literally. We're two days into this new system, to be clear. Okay. But it's every five minutes I get a vibration. I turned it off for the thing. Okay. And now what I've done two days in and I can't find it right now. Voice recorder, Little voice recorder. Analog. I mean relatively.

[Nicole Byer]

I go like not on your phone. You mean like a separate got to be entity that like we used when we were like 10 years old.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's a go, right?

[Nicole Byer]

Every five minutes, a buzz happens.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay. And which is. Okay. Yesterday.

[Nicole Byer]

I want to start. Just go interrupt. That's often.

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, guess what? It's more often than I realized. Okay. I'm training myself on a new sense, which is like times passage, because I don't.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, I get it.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm, like, learning.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Does it seem so Five minutes seems a lot more frequent than.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. I was like, are you kidding? Like, I was like, that's a joke.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Like, so, like, you time blind.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Wonderful.

[Esther Povitsky]

You know, so I'm either, like yesterday, me and Chris, my, you know, lover of 15 years. Whatever. My man.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I love the. I love the word lover. Lover.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know. It's. It's. Yeah, it's just like, whatever. So the man in my life. Okay, we go. We go into staples, right? I go. We're gonna stop.

[Nicole Byer]

Imagine you in the staples. I just want to say. Can't get staples.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, wait, you don't make sense. Like, I'm too. What for it.

[Nicole Byer]

You're too blazer and like, shoes.

[Esther Povitsky]

This is. But I am, like, the biggest slob. Like. Like, you think I am this.

[Nicole Byer]

You're like, fabulous.

[Esther Povitsky]

I cannot believe you think that about me, because I am. T shirt, jeans. That's sweatshirt.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay. And no clothes this way could go so far. This, like, your perfect T shirt and perfect jeans. Like your look in your special get on your knees on Netflix. Like, Emmy nominated. That was the only time I've ever watched another person's special, like a female comic special, and be like, that's the outfit. Like, chills. Like, you just carefully selected a gray T shirt and jeans. I'm like, that's what it should be. That's what it is for me. That's my taste. Like, I think other people pull off other things that are totally, totally. But I'm like, that's it.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

You got it.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay. That's really, really great to hear because, I mean, as you can imagine, the hunt for the gray tee. Because I was always. I always wore that.

[Nicole Byer]

How did you even.

[Esther Povitsky]

So I wore. I would try different ones, right. But it was always the hunt for the perfect one. And it was very, very important that. Because, you know, the show being this, like, it's about the blowjob, right? Like. Like, if I. You know, it's just like, if I come out there and it's like cocktail dress, it's just a different thing, you know, for all sorts of reasons. Right.

[Nicole Byer]

You have to be plain but perfectly Plain.

[Esther Povitsky]

And I want to be free to, like, move without trying to hold my posture in any particular way.

[Nicole Byer]

I remember I once did like a five minute taping and I was. All I had brought was a skirt. Because I was like, it's a taping. And the second I step on the stage, I was like, this is a bad set. I cannot be in a skirt. Like, I just. My set was. Was bad. And I was. It was. It was over.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I have a question.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Is this Staples?

[Nicole Byer]

You. I would see you at a Staples.

[Esther Povitsky]

I can't believe you think I'm fabulous.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But it's not Staples.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, this is. You can be.

[Nicole Byer]

You can be like. Because you're also sad, weepy girl.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

Like you're a sad. Sleepy.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Sad, sad, sleepy or sweepy and sleepy.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, yeah, that reminds me. Okay, I've decided. My book I put out nine years ago.

[Nicole Byer]

How to Weep in Public.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's time to make it a bestseller.

[Nicole Byer]

How to Weep in Public.

[Jacqueline Novak]

How to Weep in Public.

[Esther Povitsky]

Feeble offerings on depression from one who knows. The confidence which. I say it now because I'm so distant from the work. I had a nightmare about it, actually. The other night I had a nightmare. This woman was telling me I didn't like it. And I was like, I also have problems with it. No one has more criticism of my work than me. That's what they never realize.

[Nicole Byer]

True.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's like, oh, you commenter. You see problems with me. Like, that's so real. Kidding.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, like, no, Pete. Because my special is on YouTube and like, I'll see mean comments every now and then. Like when I check and I'm like, yeah, I think my stand up sucks too. I hate this set. I would never do these jokes anymore. Like, that's.

[Esther Povitsky]

There's like, I know, duh, I know. Like, they think you're being behind it in a way that only the person behind it could not hate more. You know, it's like. And I don't mean, like, I don't stand. That didn't make sense. But I don't feel like I don't stand by the work or something. This was in my dream. I was like, I stand by the premise. Like, I woke up once from a dream. Literally, I woke myself up because I do this. I talk in my sleep, going, finally someone articulated about the work, the very things I hate about it.

[Nicole Byer]

You. You did not.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, I heard it on. Because I was. Well, voice recorder. I never. So go back to no sense, like, of how long we've been going. Right.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because I haven't been approximate.

[Jacqueline Novak]

What is it in your head? What do you think?

[Nicole Byer]

30 seconds?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. No, it's not always short or longer. It's like I'm too scared to guess because you know when you're gonna guess, and then you're so used to being wrong that you then overcorrect.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

So now I'm like, six.

[Nicole Byer]

What? Oh, you can't just say one number. I mean, six minutes, I think longer. Wait.

[Esther Povitsky]

Eight.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, pretty good.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Not bad.

[Nicole Byer]

I would have said 10, but I have my own thing going because my mom and baby are in studio and I'm like, shut up. To my baby. Which is not how I would be, but because I'm at work, I'm like, of course.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Are you a big dreamer? Do you dream a lot?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. You huge dreamer. It's like a big part of your.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Life, and it's also a source of anxiety. Also, are you the type of dreamer where if something happens in your dreams, it carries on for the rest of the week? Like, the feeling.

[Esther Povitsky]

So, again, part of my systems now, because I'm taking back my life journal right there. I'm committing to writing down, even if it's just like four words from the dream that's locked in, out. And if I really take that one.

[Nicole Byer]

Second is locked in.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, I've done it five days in a row.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay. Locked in. You're like, spent 30 years.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know. That's to make it a system. New system to make it two days literally to do. Because I forget that I created a system.

[Nicole Byer]

I feel like I was just walking down the street in New York City and a crazy woman stopped me and cornered me. And I can't get out, and I don't want to get out.

[Esther Povitsky]

That is. That's okay. That's amazing. Thank you. That is the best, maybe sort of endorsement of my work. Because it's like. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's like. It's. Yeah and. Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. It's like. I didn't expect this. Wait, you're shocked? I'm sorry, but I need. We do need to. There's systems.

[Esther Povitsky]

I still haven't told you.

[Nicole Byer]

Staples. Why did you go to Staples? You don't even know anymore.

[Esther Povitsky]

You were just telling us. No, I went to Staples to browse. Of course.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, that's what you were telling us.

[Esther Povitsky]

No. You mean what the story was. Yeah, no, no, the story was. Oh, sorry, I forgot. Right. The story was go into Staples with Chris. Okay. My lover at 15 again. And we go in. My thing goes off when we're going in. Okay. So I pull out my analog recorder. You know, I got 1155. Entering Staples with Chris. Okay. Put it away. Right. Then we go. We look around, look at it. I do. IPads interest me. You know, I've never really seen a use for one. What could be the use for one? Whatever. We get to another area, really. I'm in there. I have an idea about a particular post that I'm looking for for my systems. Okay. And we get. We get. We get through it, and we finally leave. Oh, and my thing went off like, twice while I was in there, and I was like. So just to be clear, like, that felt like five minutes to me. Like, I felt like we stopped in there for, like, four to five minutes. And Chris is like, oh, it felt like forever. And I was like. Then we went to Ralph's. Okay. Because I didn't have my phone. Left it at home on purpose. What? Okay. That's part of it. So I'm. Now I've got my thing buzzing every five. And I go, usually I'm the one that's lost in the grocery store, and he's already checking out and can't find me. Right?

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

So this time, I'm so aware of time. I'm like, I'm going to go up to the checkout. I'm going to. He's probably there. I'm going to anticipate it this time. I go to the checkout, he's not there. I wait. I'm like, what is going on? Something's not right. Okay. I'm like, five minutes. I'm never done before him. Five minutes pass. I go, if this thing hits, another five minutes. If I get another buzz, okay. I'm talking to security. Something's. I started to think, you know that movie? Sandra Bullock was the remake. But then there's the, like, French one, the original. It's like the vanishing. It's sheer genius.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay, okay. I'm watching it tonight.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's just. Yeah, no, it's. You're gonna. We'll do another podcast, like, about it. Okay. But it's like just, you know, casual thing. And then, like, your partner, like, disappears. Like, it's just gone in a cat and like the Superman. I go, oh, God, it's happening.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh.

[Esther Povitsky]

Then I go, if he, like, collapsed his head on a corner of a tomato box, okay. I was like. I was like. There would have been fanfare. I would have heard sirens, whatever. So it's like he's been taken or he's left without me because he forgot I was with him. The buzzer goes off again. I start flying through the aisles. I find him. I mean, it's just the. The point is like the reality of the time. It's. It's like I'm learning a new sense. The fact that I thought something was severely wrong when normally it would just be again, browsing, looking for inspiration in the aisles.

[Nicole Byer]

It's so interesting because wouldn't just a regular watch also help in that situation?

[Jacqueline Novak]

No, you have to be. You have to remember to.

[Nicole Byer]

Right, that's right. You need the reminder to look at it.

[Esther Povitsky]

All it means is 5 minutes have passed from the last time it buzzed. And that continues to be a shock. Like, I'm like, still putting on my shoes to leave.

[Nicole Byer]

I just can't. Can you imagine being at Staples and you see a woman walking in and she's talking into a school. She's like, I'm here at Staples with Chris. It's 11:55. You'd be like, oh, there's gonna be a bomb.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Or that you're a detective.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. And you know what I did to. To be slick. Okay. Because it was. We're in line. And I was like, it went off. I gotta make my mark. I go, hey, I'm in Staples. Talk to you later.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, pretend.

[Esther Povitsky]

Pretend like it was phone or something.

[Nicole Byer]

You gotta do that.

[Esther Povitsky]

See my hand?

[Nicole Byer]

That's what I do when I'm like, whenever I dare try to make a tick tock in public, I'm like, I'll just do whatever the mannerisms that will make it feel like it's a FaceTime.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

Because for some reason that's like, that's fine.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know.

[Nicole Byer]

But the other thing is humiliating.

[Esther Povitsky]

To create. To create art, content.

[Nicole Byer]

Scary.

[Esther Povitsky]

Where do you draw the line between the two?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Can you tell me about your sleepy weepies and how sleepy you are and how weepy you are?

[Nicole Byer]

Well, do you have a sleep disorder?

[Esther Povitsky]

So much to say.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I really want to know everything about.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because you. Are you a hypersomniac when you say sleepy weepy?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Like, no, but I just. I'm like, fascinated with sleep because I have like some weird going on.

[Nicole Byer]

She's a bedrotter.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I'm a bedrotter. But I'm also like a very. I'm a lucid dreamer.

[Esther Povitsky]

Are you serious?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, no.

[Esther Povitsky]

Wow. Like a lot. Like, like you're. You do it.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You're like, enough. I did it more when I was younger and now not so much, but like, I can have sex with other people in my Dreams fully enjoy it.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And then wake up and be like. That was.

[Esther Povitsky]

Gotta ask, though. Are there, like, on the energetic plane that the dreams are on, Right? Like, if you're, like. If you're, like, having sex in the etheric plane, like, are you kind of. Is it. I'm not saying, like, is it having an energetic effect and what might that be? Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, is it. Is the. You know, down there in the unconscious or whatever on that level? Like. Well, here's what I'm really asking. Have you ever astral projected?

[Jacqueline Novak]

I've never astral projected.

[Esther Povitsky]

What is that? That's when you. You leave your body. So your body's laying in bed, you float out. There's a silver cord notoriously connecting the belly of you to your etheric body.

[Nicole Byer]

Is this real?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

People actually project.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's incredible.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I never.

[Nicole Byer]

Have you done this?

[Esther Povitsky]

No. Once I. Once I got an arm out.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And you could see that the arm was out?

[Esther Povitsky]

No, no, because I couldn't see it, but one arm and it kind of went through a wall. Okay. You know, and then I forgot I'd started this practice and it all fell apart. Okay.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But because you can train astral projection, you can also train lucid dreaming.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes. I mean, so do you do any checks or. You don't need them. You're so pro. So you do checks with lucid dreaming. Like, so, you know, classic would be, like, you look at the time because, like, the numbers on your watch will be messed up.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah. I think that you can either. So when I was a kid, it happened organically. I never even had to figure it out. But, like, I later found out what it. I was, like, having, like, nocturnal emissions. Like, I was having sex and having, like, real orgasms in my sleep and stuff. Sorry, Esther. I know you're a mom.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. Why did we have to have this conversation today?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Nocturnal emissions happen to everyone. But this is what I realized.

[Nicole Byer]

Is that like a wet dream?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah. But then in. While you're having it, you're very aware that it's a dream. That's what lucid dreaming is. It's like, this is a dream. I can control it. I'm an active participant. And I'm not. Like, there's no surprise when you wake up.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, one time I had a lucid dream where a family member. No, like, a family relative who's no longer alive is in the dream. That's another way you sometimes realize. You realize you're dreaming, right? It's like. But you're not alive. Oh, Wait, maybe this is a dream. Right?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Right.

[Esther Povitsky]

And I was like, wait, I'm aware I'm dreaming. I finally can lucid dream. And I was like, hang on to the family member. And I turned and flew into the forest and flew loops through the forest behind like my childhood home essentially. And it was like purples and pinks though, and it was glorious.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That's the great part about lucid dreaming, is that you can enjoy flying.

[Nicole Byer]

I have flown in a dream recently and it was great.

[Esther Povitsky]

Tell me everything. It was like, this is the best.

[Nicole Byer]

I was on like some sort of like wheelie device. Why are you laughing at that?

[Esther Povitsky]

Because flying generally means deviceless, right?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Why are you flying with wheels?

[Nicole Byer]

Let me explain.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, okay, this is really interesting.

[Nicole Byer]

If you're on some sort of like picture like some tall contraption that has wheels and then you're like almost like a scooter and then. But you're like going really fast and you're like. It feels like you're flying.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Okay, so you were basically like an airplane that took off, but open air.

[Nicole Byer]

I guess I was like on a scooter but felt like I was flying. But it was really awesome and better than flying, I swear.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, I once I had one of the best dreams ever that was floating down this like narrow, deep sapphire rushing creek. And it was. But you weren't. You know, there was no struggling, just. It was just like this, I mean, carried along. I feel like I was like thirsty though. Like, like I dreaming of this. I'm chronically dehydrated, so I feel like I'm drawn to that.

[Nicole Byer]

Well, it was weird to wake up from that dream and then be like, oh, there is nothing on earth that I could do that is that I was like, oh, I love that experience in my dream. But that's not.

[Esther Povitsky]

I can't go to water skiing.

[Nicole Byer]

No. I'm really scared of everything that has to do with that kind of stuff.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like with physical, like water action oriented. Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Ski, Water ski, jet ski.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Would you go one of those like city walk? The fake skydiving.

[Nicole Byer]

I would do the fake skydiving, yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, where you're getting the. Yeah, yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

I've always been very curious, but whenever I'd walk past it, there's like a line of thick 35 year olds. Like 30. Yeah, 35 year olds, not 35 year olds. You know what I mean?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. It's like New York, like sex in the city. Like the trapeze. Like, like it's sort of like the current of that, like that moment in New York. Now we're, like, tired of that. Now we got to be blown up in the air.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, so do you. What is your sleep issue?

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, to be clear, you have to guide me. Okay. Carry me down the river. Keep me up.

[Nicole Byer]

We are guiders. We love that.

[Esther Povitsky]

So, like, in my 20s, in college and whatever, starting really in high school and then whatever, it was, like, just constant sleep. Sleeping so long, like. And then I would have these, you know, in. In, like, my 20s, these things where I'd fall asleep and I'd be asleep for, like, 28 hours.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay. What?

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay. And then wake up and really. And then, like, have to. At the time, I worked at an ad agency, and it was like, hi, I. Like, I. I've been asleep.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Epic dreams. Two alarms.

[Esther Povitsky]

Can you imagine?

[Nicole Byer]

Two days?

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I went and got a sleep study around that time, you know, did you do the, like, thing. You lay down in the thing? The whole thing, by the way. I slept till four in the afternoon the day of the sleep study. So it was like they let.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, my God.

[Esther Povitsky]

By accident.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

So it was already kind of, like, weird because I'm going in, like, fresh. You know what I mean? So I still fell asleep, right? And then slept a long time and then meet with this woman who's, like, the head of the, you know, institute, whatever, there. And it's like, yeah, your brainwave's normal. This normal, like, everything, you know? And she's like, I think you're just really tired.

[Jacqueline Novak]

No, that can't be.

[Nicole Byer]

That's crazy, because 20. I'm still processing and digesting that you slept for 28 hours.

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, she did give one other actually, like, kind of compelling potential. She goes, there was one other woman once, okay. Who had similar thing. These like, sort of attacks of sleep. And at some point, she got some kind of brain imaging, and they were like, oh, you suffer from migraines. We can see it, you know, on your brain. She's like, no. So she was having migraine without the headache.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, I have that.

[Esther Povitsky]

And I might be having migraine without the headache.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And that's why you stay down.

[Esther Povitsky]

Those were migraines, essentially, potentially, because I.

[Nicole Byer]

Got a brain scan once where they're like, oh, do you have migraines? And I was like, no. And they're like, oh, never mind then. But I had the migraine signs on my brain. I still, to this day, I'm freaked out. I.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because you don't have.

[Nicole Byer]

You don't have that later in life than I did. I Can't believe you have this.

[Esther Povitsky]

This is crazy.

[Nicole Byer]

I did start to get them, but then I don't have them anymore. And I. And I also talked to people who do get migraines, and their brain scan didn't show that right. I'm scared.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, no. What's wrong with you both?

[Esther Povitsky]

Something in me is like, oh, that's cool. Like, you got this piece of information that you might not have gotten that could answer things.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Do you feel rested after 28 hours or do you feel more tired?

[Esther Povitsky]

I remember, like, stumbling down. I was in this apartment, like, like stumbling down to the, like, corner. I'm like, is the term bodega not in fashion anymore? Okay, but whatever. Like, it was like, and I'll get vitamin water. You know, like the sugar.

[Nicole Byer]

I remember those days when we thought that was healthy.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know.

[Nicole Byer]

That was fun.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, I know, like, guzzling it. Yeah. So stumble around. It was called, like, sleep drunk. You know, when you're. When you've, like, slept so much, it's like anytime that you, like, I was knocking into things and what can I say? Nine to five wasn't for me. It's like, I sort of just like, I don't understand.

[Nicole Byer]

You wake up. How do you even figure out that you've been asleep 28 hours? Did you panic?

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, no. So it would be like this. It'd be like. And be like, wake up. I'd be like, like, oh, like, what time is it? Like, oh, is it morning? Okay, like if, let's say the first, like, wake up. Okay, back to sleep. So there would be these micro wake ups. But it was like I was only surfacing enough to know, oh, no, now it's dark out again.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, wow.

[Esther Povitsky]

And then like, and then at that point, I'm like, well, I might as well, you know, go back in because I need to finish the war that I was fighting in my dream. Like, there's a whole. Know how, like, you dream for like 40 minutes and it feels like nine years. So it's like I'm like, well, it might as well, like, avenge my family, you know, or whatever it is that I'm also doing in the dream.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Wait, that's dreaming too? When you can wake up from something and go back into the dream. Right?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, I mean, I can do it. I guess I can do that sometimes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Do you have to take, like, Provigil or Modafil?

[Esther Povitsky]

What do those do?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Those are the ones that keep you up. They help with, like, narcolepsy.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, you know, I never did anything like that. Although. But it was more like I was prescribed, like, you know, Adderall and I was on Wellbutrin already. So sort of this was all also, like, wrapped up in depression, you know, so it was sort of all kind of one big thing.

[Nicole Byer]

But is there any resolve to this? Like, today, could you sleep for 28 hours by accident? Like, could this happen again?

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, it's hard to answer in a way, but it wouldn't happen today. Yeah, but I could sort of see it happening if I was, like, really, really depressed and in a context, like in some hotel room or something like that. And. And I just stay asleep. I could sort of see that happening. But I don't think I'm. I don't think I'm at risk of that these days. I feel pretty. I wake well, like another system about. I'm two days into another one. You're really catching me at a watershed moment. Two days without coffee first thing, because I'm like, up and I'm like, living according to my memories of always being so tired that I just have to, like, down the caffeine. So. And I'm like, I am. I am up and my mind is working. Yeah, I don't need anything right now. I need to chill out, you know, downer on in the morning, if anything.

[Nicole Byer]

A downer in the morning.

[Esther Povitsky]

I think I need a downer.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait.

[Esther Povitsky]

Champagne with breakfast.

[Nicole Byer]

I've never heard of such a protocol.

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, I haven't tried it yet, but.

[Nicole Byer]

So my sleep issue is that, like, I am getting sleep, but I'm still really tired all the time. And so that's freaking me out. I even got an aura ring because I was like, maybe I'm not really getting sleep. Let me check. I get the aura ring. I'm getting good scores. I'm getting my eight hours. But then it's like, I'm still like. Like this lazy bum that doesn't want to move around and get up.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Maybe that's not sleep related, really. Like that may. You, like, you have low blood pressure. You're like me, I am potsy. So no matter what I do, I'm always tired. Like, I can always recline. Yeah, I never want to just get up.

[Esther Povitsky]

And this idea, like, suddenly I had all this energy and I, like, don't even know quite what they mean by that. I don't, like, is there something, a motivational, physical feeling happening in you?

[Jacqueline Novak]

That's like the closest I can feel to that is maybe when I'm excited about seeing someone or something, but never just this, like, burst of, like, oh, I. You know, I have energy, legs all of a sudden.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Like, never. I've never had that in my life.

[Nicole Byer]

I mean, sure, if I do a set, then I come home and I'm, like, buzzing. Yeah. But certainly on a normal day, it's like, when I watch other people and the things that they can accomplish. For example, even just my mom, like, she can just go, go, go, do, do, do. And I'm like, oh, like, it's. What's wrong with me. Do you guys feel this way, too?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah, definitely.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. I mean, this is, like, why I'm. You know. I mean, like, all I have to do is. I'm determined. Yeah. Yeah. Ye. I'm trying to figure it out. And, like, the day I die, maybe I'll have, like, the system has been perfected. It'll be time to start my life. It's like. It's definitely. That is my, like, Twilight Zone. It's gonna happen for me. It's time, you know, but not to be, like, so with the. With the constant diagnosis and whatever. But is add a factor for you?

[Nicole Byer]

I don't know. I've never.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm wondering why.

[Nicole Byer]

Tell me why.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because, you know, the ADHD brain, and I speak as, you know, I speak like a expert. Like, but it's like motivation and being motivated by different things and more neurotypical brains. So, like, I guess, like, the neurotypical brain, you're motivated by consequences. Okay. Which is really interesting. And then the ADHD brain, they say, is motivated by, like, urgency in favor of consequences. So, like, you know, if you don't fill out this form, you're not gonna, you know, get your money back at the. Whatever. It's, like, not gonna happen. But if it was just, like, someone being like, fill out this form right now, sign it. It's not a perfect example. But then the other ones. Are you ready? Motivated by interest.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But, yeah, that's adhd, right?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

And then passion.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Forgot the other. But I was like, yeah, I'll be lying there. So, like, I'll be living in a frozen. Unable to do any of the things. And if, like, you start a conversation with me and I start to think, like, that's kind of interesting. Like, you know, I wonder if, like, there was a Watch out there that does that, like, for five minutes. Okay. Right. And then I'm, like, out of bed. Like, you could trick me.

[Nicole Byer]

You got excited.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's like hacking your brain a little differently.

[Nicole Byer]

You got excited by a specific idea.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And then it turns into, like, a hyper Focus. And then down the rabbit hole of that one specific thing and.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, and then the hyper focus is like the other time blind. Like, but also that's like my favorite place to be. Yeah, it's heaven.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Just what time blind hyper focus. You're just completely just into something and the world does not exist around you.

[Nicole Byer]

That is really fun.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That's why they say women are really into like true crime and like going down that road of true crime and hyper fixating on all the different details and stuff.

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, the comfort of murder at night. I mean, it's obvious, like, right? Like it's everyone. I mean, in particular when like no one doesn't want to go to bed listening to murder. Like, right. Like, I mean, like, like it's like so common. Right. Like, I mean I certainly experience like Dateline, Criminal Minds. Like, it's just like put one on, close my eyes.

[Nicole Byer]

I would also say like, that's makeup and skin care. Is that like, that's. I went through that era so strongly of just like, that's all I'm thinking about. That's all I'm researching. There's so much there. There's so much to consume. And that was what I realized. I can trace that back to like being really anxious about like when there was a lot of mass shootings like maybe like eight years ago or whatever. It's all the time. But like, I just got so particularly fixated and afraid that, yeah, I couldn't consume anything other than makeup and beauty.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, I was like, arguably is like one big. Like that's a bring up my work.

[Nicole Byer]

No. Yeah, I listen to your podcast, but.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean like, it's literally that, right? Like, like we talk about skin gear non stop and I actually don't. It's like I don't even like care that much about how my skin looks. Like it's really, like, it's not even about that. It's just like a, an escape. I mean, some of it I do. Right? But. But yeah, it becomes about a hobby or something. The research, the.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

And it, it's like when I get an idea, like, I wonder if there's a product that. I mean, I'm always, I'm always like, like, you know, little inventions and whatever. You know, I wonder if there's a tape out there that you know, like, like frownies, but not frownies. Frownies, they always fall off and d. And frownies don't work when you have skincare on. They slide right off. So how. How would there be something that was sticky and A serum that stuck on the thing. Like, is there, like, inventing.

[Nicole Byer]

I want my. Okay, I just got an aura ring, which. I know you're into wearables. You. You don't.

[Esther Povitsky]

I had an aura ring. I have an aura ring. But, like, they sent a free thing and I forgot my login, and so 12 months have passed with it dry. I'm currently using a whoop. Right. I love my whoop.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, did you throw a ring for free? Yeah, I begged them for, like, eight years, and they have been.

[Esther Povitsky]

How did you do it? I think it was early. Okay, but you're saying yours was early.

[Nicole Byer]

No, I'm exaggerating.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, the thing is, the ring itself, right? Is. It's like the money's in the subscription.

[Nicole Byer]

I know. They charge you every month. It's so ridiculous.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's. Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, so I feel like. Okay, so my invention that I need is like, I want more information about my body every day because my ocd, which I'm recently diagnosed and loving it.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Wait, well, only recently.

[Nicole Byer]

So I didn't know that, like, the way that my brain is. Is treating me is just like obsessive compulsive disorder. Like, I have a problem. I thought this was just my personality.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I'm nodding really big because when she finally told me, I was like, oh, how could you not have known, you obsessive person?

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, sometimes, you know, if it runs in the family. Okay. But I don't know, it's like, first of all, you all just have the same, like, disorder. So you all just think that's how. No, everything is.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay, so the way that ocd, at least. Whatever. In my mind, I thought it was, like, flipping the light switch.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know.

[Nicole Byer]

I'm like, I know, but it's actually just, like, being obsessive, you know, like.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, like. Like. Like someone will be like, I'm pure O, like, of obsessive compulsive.

[Nicole Byer]

No.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. It's not always manifesting.

[Nicole Byer]

I didn't know people or people will be like, I'm so ocd, I have to reorganize after you touch this, I'm like, oh, okay. I know. I don't have that.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, exactly.

[Nicole Byer]

But anyways, where were we? Oh, yeah. I would love some. Some more. An invention of more information about my body every day.

[Esther Povitsky]

Now, is that. Wait, but about the. Were you saying because of your OCD fixation on, like, health, what's going on in your body, you just want more data?

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Esther Povitsky]

You mean you're not saying to cure the ocd, you're saying to honor the OCD to fulfill its needs.

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Esther Povitsky]

So I'm just trying to think. No, I'm like, I like all this stuff. I know I had this one thing you wear on your. Like, you know, I had a lucid dreaming mask, okay. That puts on and blinks red lights at you in the middle of the night. So you see the red lights without waking up in your dream. And you're like, I'm driving.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, that's great. That's.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, that's cool. It's called the can't recall. And then muse is another one you might like.

[D]

What's.

[Esther Povitsky]

That goes on your forehead. Okay. And it measures, like, the brain waves, and it gives you these little sound cues for when you get into. It gives you, like, biofeedback of, like, now you're in theta or whatever. Like, stay there. You're meditating. Okay. And these little birds start chirping when you're in theta. Like, ocean. And then, like, I think the ocean gets, like, loud and, like, when you're starting to go back to.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But wouldn't the awareness that you're in Theta take you out of theta?

[Esther Povitsky]

That's the sweet spot of, like, that's where you're supposed to. That's why it's like. It's like trying to not wake up. It's like.

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's like trying to not cut the poo.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

When you're telling yourself, don't. You know you're pooing, don't cut the poo. You cut the poo.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, obviously, like, I was just like, I. It was like a metaphor I wouldn't use because I'm like, prim or something. I mean, you know what I mean?

[Nicole Byer]

Right. Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

But I will ride with anyone's metaphor. You know what I mean? So I was like, yes. You know, like. Like, I'm like, I'm horrified. You know what I mean? Like. Like, I'm like. But exactly, you know, like, if the metaphor holds, it must be used, I think, and often. And it absolutely holds. Like, this is so important to me. Like, use the metaphor that it holds. But it's. It's really strong.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Is like a strong. Like, the moment you think that you do not want to interrupt it. It's interrupted.

[Esther Povitsky]

Exactly.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And you pinch it out. That's it. It's like a light when you grasp.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, it's like, you know, if a penny. Okay. Floats in water, like. Okay. Or anything floating in water. Right. And you try to. Try to grab it. Right. Similar that the grasping sends it further Away.

[Nicole Byer]

You brought up Theta, which is reminding me that my ultimate goal all the time is to achieve a flow state.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

And it's nearly. Why are you laughing at me? Why are you laughing at me?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Because it's just.

[Esther Povitsky]

These are, like, all my interests.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I.

[Nicole Byer]

Nothing.

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's just so funny and cute and so, like, hot girl.

[Nicole Byer]

La. What?

[Jacqueline Novak]

I really want to achieve a flow.

[Nicole Byer]

State because it's the same thing. Like, when you. When you're in it, you're like, holy shit, it's happening. But, like, you can do it. I've done it. When you're cleaning, when I'm taking care of the baby, when I'm the. You know, the biggest one, when you're on stage, that's the one you want. And it's like, ah, now that I know about this thing that sometimes happens, but I don't know how to get it. It's like, I'm always like.

[Esther Povitsky]

So I have advice. Okay. Because all I do is research. But what were you gonna say? Cause I want to hear.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I was gonna say, I. I know you're not into drugs or life enhancers at the moment.

[Nicole Byer]

Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But I will say, when I take the psilo. The psilocybin just. It's flow state all day long. I get so much done and I stay in that, like, pocket.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, that's so upsetting.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But then when I'm not on it, I'm a mess. It's like I'm pulling out my luchador mask and while I'm supposed to be doing something else.

[Esther Povitsky]

Wait, what is that mask?

[Jacqueline Novak]

The wrestling mask. The Rey Mysterio.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, okay. I was like. I was like. I was like, is that a saluma? Like, we're talking led. You know what I mean?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Wait. My friend just handed me a salooma.

[Esther Povitsky]

Really?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah. I'm gonna try it for the first time.

[Esther Povitsky]

This one.

[Jacqueline Novak]

This one.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay. It's huge. And by the way, like. Like a facialist, I knew nothing, recommended it as, like the. If you're gonna do one, do that one, apparently. Congrats.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Thank you. They're very expensive. They're just like the infrared.

[Nicole Byer]

Was it a present for losing all your belongings?

[Jacqueline Novak]

It was a present for losing half my face. Oh, yeah. She was like, I think this is gonna help you get your face back.

[Nicole Byer]

She lost half her face and then all her stuff.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Damn the fires. Yeah. Well.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm sorry.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That's okay. I lucid dream. I can lucid dream back into my old home.

[Esther Povitsky]

Do you have recurring mansions in your dreams that you visit?

[Jacqueline Novak]

I Have a recurring dream about a yellow, yellow house that I grew up in, and it is the most terrifying. And I was just back there two days ago, and my mom. I was telling my mom, we got to get out of here. We got. All the bad things have happened here. And for the first time in my life, usually my nightmare is that no one wants to leave, and I'm the only one saying, let's get out of here for the first time. She was like, you're right. Let's get out of here. And we got out of there. And I was like, this is a breakthrough.

[Esther Povitsky]

Huge.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Because I've had this dream my entire life.

[Nicole Byer]

Huge. Wait, that's crazy.

[Jacqueline Novak]

We got out of there, and we're happy, and I felt safe.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, my God.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Isn't that great?

[Nicole Byer]

Wow. That is. I have recurring dreams, too, and I recently had a breakthrough in one of my recurring ones. And I don't remember what it was anymore, but it was something at the time, maybe watched, like, five months ago from an episode.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, I'll say I said it there.

[Esther Povitsky]

I had one. Because I have a recurring dream that it's Christmas and I've even. I've forgotten to get my family gifts.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

I have this recurring dream that it's, like, too late, all the stores are closed, and they're not gonna be open the next morning, and I'm gonna have to cobble something together I can find in, like, my bedroom or, like, cvs. Is it open 24 hours? Like, is. You know, and whatever. And then the breakthrough. Because, I mean, I have this all year long, all the time. The breakthrough this year, I finally got to the morning and didn't have the presence. And I said, guys, it finally happened. In the dream, I was like, you know the thing I always tell you I dream about? Because in the dream I'm telling them about the dream, I'm like, it finally happened.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God.

[Esther Povitsky]

No gifts.

[Nicole Byer]

Did they care?

[Esther Povitsky]

They were fine.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That is a breakthrough. That's a huge.

[Esther Povitsky]

I thought that was, like, that was pretty good today.

[Jacqueline Novak]

My mom spent the night last night, and she woke up, and my mom and her anxiety, she's like, I had a nightmare. What was a nightmare? I dreamt that all my teeth fell off. I vomited all of my teeth into my hands.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And this is the same dream. She's been telling me to scare me my whole life, which is that if you dream of losing your teeth, someone's going to die. So she's convinced she's in my house, still walking around Like I'm. Someone's going to die.

[Esther Povitsky]

Tough. I know because I dream that all the time.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But teeth, right?

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, it's very. That's like a common like, like, like anxiety, anxiety dream.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah, yeah. I tell her I was like, the reason you keep dreaming about falling teeth is because you're afraid of volunteer. Yeah, yeah, of dreaming it. So you dream it all day long. Anyways.

[Nicole Byer]

Mine is always that I'm stuck in high school, that I have to go back.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, you loved high school.

[Nicole Byer]

I know, but I'm like, I'm. It's an anxiety dream of like, oh, I guess I'm redoing high school and there's all these different variations, but it's usually where I'm like, no, I think I should leave and go to la. Like, I think I'll be fine.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Do you ever get dreams where you're back with an ex and you're married with kids and you wake up and you're like, what happens in my life?

[Esther Povitsky]

I like seen that TV show where they're like, when they, to sleep, they're, they're in the other life. So, you know, that's like, like again, I mean, you're very tuned in. So maybe that's like a multi world situation.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Maybe. I do not like that other world, though. I'll, I'll.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, wait, this other one, which I really want to hear Jaclyn's take on because I can't figure this one out. But it's like I will have a recurring dream, this is my most common one, where it's the morning of the last day of high school and I'm like picking out my clothes, take a shower, get my lunch together. I'm like trying to figure out how I'm going to get to school, like if I'm, if there's a car to take or something. Like, why the last, the morning before the last day.

[Esther Povitsky]

A bit about sort of high school graduation. Usually for me it's this thing of, oh, I didn't realize that, like, you know, oh, I have not been to the language class once this year. Yeah, I haven't been to. So like there's this recurring, oh my God, I keep forgetting to go to those classes.

[Nicole Byer]

Right. I'm going to fail this class and.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, am I not going to graduate? I mean, you know, my mom still has those dreams about college. She's like, not only did she not study for the final, it's like, there's a final exam. It's like she never even got the book. So deep but you know what you do with the dream thing, with a scary thing in the dream? This is like. So if every part of yourself in a dream is part of your psyche, like, like your fragmented psyche. Right. It's like the goal is to reincorporate or whatever. So all the parts of yourself, like these shadow parts, and they're, like, scary because you've othered them. Right. This is like my, like, bastardization of some Jungian whatever.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

If you're able to do this in the dream, if you're able to go, oh, I'm having that scary dream again with, like, the sharp beaked bird. Okay. This happened to me once again. It was like. And it was like, instead of running from it, you, like, turn to embrace it. Basically, it will transform into something not scary. And it's like, it literally works. Like, I did it once, like, with the bird, and then they turned in these, like, beautiful birds. And one time there was, like, a devil woman at the door. Like a devil witch woman. And it was like, she's at the door. She's at the door. And I was like, I'm going to the door. Okay. And I was like, hello? And I was like, why do you have to be like this? Why do you have to be this devil woman? You know? Like, can't you just give it up? Like, can't you just like. And she's like, I know my. I know, I know. Like, you are what you are. Like, you just are what you are, and you're that part of the world. And she was kind of like. Like, she. She was just sort of.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That's sort of like, you know, making friends with your demons.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And just being like, all right, then they don't hover over you.

[Esther Povitsky]

They're not, like, shaking in your face because you're like. It's just like, the more you reject, the more you push it down.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

The more, like, what is it? Angry it becomes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

What you resist persists.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes. It gets. Gets stronger.

[Nicole Byer]

But what was your advice about flow state?

[Esther Povitsky]

All right, so in my 20s, I was reading. I was trying to get in the flow state, and I was reading, like, that guy, like, Mikhail Sisma. Like, it's a long name. It's like Russian long name. But it's cz. Whatever. I'll send you. He has a book. Guess what it's called the flow State. And he might have, like, coined it, right? Yeah. And he's like, people are happiest in the flow state. They're happier in the flow state than they are when they're just happy, you know, like yeah, that's, that's the closest thing we have to feeling how we want to feel like when people self reporting and whatever. And what he identified was that it happens when on this graph of like difficulty and you're like and your sort of skills or ability. It's like if it's too easy then you're not going to be in flow state, right? If it's truly beyond like your ability, not gonna be flow state. But if it's challenging you, but you're, you're, you're, you know, you're in the game. And so I think like on stage, right, it's like it's, it's inherently like scary and like the challenge is there but you, you get into flow state, pulling it off.

[E]

Shout out to our golden slugs, Thomas and Brandon. And also we have a Patreon. You can get in at the link below. There is tons of bonus content. This week I uploaded a vlog with my mom. Kalila's in Hawaii. She has a blog up there with her and Jules and there's new bonus content every single week. There's bonus episodes. You can get instant access when you join. I believe it's patreon.com/Tuesday podcast and there's a link below and there's a lot stuff coming. Hello, Los angeles. This Friday, April 4th, I will be doing another show at the Comedy Store, Belly Room, Esther and friends. It's going to be really fun. You can get tickets at the link below. It's at 8pm early for the moms and I'm so excited. Last one was so fun. It sold out this Friday, April 4th in LA and Comedy Store tickets below. And as always, check out EB Ocean Club. That's how we all look so pretty all the time.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, we were talking about how I'm not remotely distracted by the baby hyperfocused.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I think it's because it's your baby. So you hear her into her.

[Nicole Byer]

Cuz whenever it's someone else's baby, you don't hear. You don't. You're just like, it's. But when it's your baby, it's like the something is going on and I.

[Esther Povitsky]

Think it literally is.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, it's like full chemical whatever programming.

[Jacqueline Novak]

No, it's. It's devastating to your systems. Yeah, but no, we were just saying like even on planes.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, that's really cute.

[Nicole Byer]

It's like what is my doing?

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, I was trying to shake it.

[Nicole Byer]

The baby, she literally goes rainbow. Didn't hear I was trying to shake it. I know she meant the bottle.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay. I thought the baby, too. And I was like. She meant gently, though.

[Jacqueline Novak]

We were saying, like, it's sort of a relief when you hear an external thing to, like, interrupt the war going on in my head. Like when, like, I'm battling so much in my head that when I hear a baby cry, it's kind of like the construction also.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, I'm like, bring it on. Yeah. Yeah. Like, they're like. They're like. You know, this hotel had construction. Keeping me up all night. Better than alone with. With myself.

[Jacqueline Novak]

So much better.

[Esther Povitsky]

Drown my ass out.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I need ambient noise. In fact.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

One time I was in Big island, and they have these frogs called the cookie frogs.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And everyone complains, like, if you. If you didn't grow up there, they just.

[Esther Povitsky]

They, they.

[Jacqueline Novak]

What do frogs do? They ribbit really loudly all night. As soon as I hear them, I'm knocked out. I'm asleep. It's like the symphony to. It's bedtime. Oh.

[Nicole Byer]

See, for me, the best living situation I've ever had in my 36 years is when I lived on top of a bar in college.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, I get that.

[Nicole Byer]

And I would get to hear all night, all the girls and all the fun yelling, and it was like. It was so soothing to me. There's something about knowing that other people are living right near you, like, existing.

[Esther Povitsky]

I cannot tell you how deeply I agree.

[Nicole Byer]

Why is that?

[Esther Povitsky]

To be behind a wall, a door, like. Like, for there to be a shield. But. But a lot going on right there. I mean, that's, to me, a little bit like listening to. That's a little bit like turning on Dateline to fall asleep.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's similar. It's like they're going. It's like something's being taken care of.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Like, the hard part is having a partner who needs absolute silence to fall asleep. And then I'm just sweating next to him, like, in my own personal hell.

[Nicole Byer]

Going to bed is such a source of anxiety for me. That is the worst. Like, and people.

[Esther Povitsky]

Whether it's going to, like, fail, like, whether you'll sleep well, or is it just like. Or always time. Time to go to bed.

[Nicole Byer]

It's always been a scary time for me. Ever since I was little. I never wanted to go to bed alone. I would have to have my mom sleep in my bed with me. Like, I. I don't like going to sleep, and I need to have others. And I. Yeah, when I'm thinking about it now, it's like, oh, Maybe it has to do with when in tribes or whatever, and you needed someone to stay awake to keep you safe.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, that's it. Okay.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And. But also, like, we live in a society that really, really pushes independent sleep, even in very, very small babies.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, right, right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And as a baby, I remember my mom, like, breaking away from the norm of, like, sleeping with your kid. You know, co sleeping and having us sleep alone. And look at me as an adult. I can't sleep alone.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Like, I'm terrified. I didn't know how to sleep alone two years ago.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I would have, like, when my partner would, like, leave or be on the road, I would have my mom and sister come over because I would be just terrified of my thoughts. The dark being alone. Yeah, it was.

[Esther Povitsky]

It wasn't like, wild like, something like a psychologist says something and then like, 20 years of, I don't know, like, like babies being raised, like, according to some. You know what I mean? Like, some system or something. Like, you got to let them cry it out or whatever these things. It's just like. And then you have, like, a generation who all have, like, the same psychological problem. You know what I mean? Like, and then, like. And then they're like, actually independent sleep wasn't the answer. Like, it's just kind of terrifying.

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's a weird idea to think that it's like, as a kid, well, mom and dad are sleeping together.

[Nicole Byer]

They need each other.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And then now I have to be, as a scared, young, new to the world thing, I have to be in my own room.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. What is that? Like, that. That. That does not seem normal. It almost, like, would seem more normal if one of the adults was off alone keeping watch or something.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I'm pretty sure it is weird if Ace were to be like, mom, I'm scared. You would absolutely just be like, oh.

[Nicole Byer]

I'm dying for that.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Exactly.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, I going in there, like, somebody.

[Nicole Byer]

Obviously I'm grateful that, like, she could sleep on her own now. Like, I'm happy for her, but it's just not the way I pictured things.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

It's just not. Like, if she ever expresses interest in getting in our bed, like, that's happening. That's a go.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That's a dream, right?

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's hysterical. But did you feel the societal pressure to, like, get her to.

[Nicole Byer]

I didn't feel any societal pressure, but I did feel they really instill you with fear about co sleeping. And so I was like, I'm just not gonna even go there. And I was just too scared. So I Was like, whatever the safe sleep is, I'm just gonna do it.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Because why take a chance?

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. And I was in some moms, though, like, they'll research it. I did not do the research before, so I wasn't prepared for what my preferences would be. And I think if I had gone into it, like, before the postpartum crazy started with a plan for co sleeping, maybe it would have been better because then I meet all these moms. Like, I read this book and we co sleep and it's perfectly safe, and so I just sort of missed the boat on it.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, mom, will you come over here? I want to ask you a question about sleep.

[Esther Povitsky]

I actually pulled myself out of my crib when I was like two. Like, came in with like a bruise, like a rug burn on my forehead and was like. Came into the kitchen and was like. And then from then on, I. They had me sleep on a mattress on the floor. I did not like the crib.

[Nicole Byer]

Will you tell me what it was, what I was like to sleep as a baby?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[D]

She never liked the crib either. When she was. Wasn't even two years old, we decided to take the rails down.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[D]

And we thought maybe she would sleep in the bed, but that didn't work. So she ended up sleeping with her sister until she was about five. And then Leah kicked her out of bed.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, my God.

[D]

And then after that, then she started sleeping in a sleeping bag in our bedroom.

[Esther Povitsky]

So cute.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah, that's so cute.

[Esther Povitsky]

Sounds great.

[D]

And then after that, then I started, you know, lying in bed with her.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[D]

And as soon as I try to get out of bed. Mom, where are you going?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. And you brought all the way up.

[Jacqueline Novak]

To three and a half years.

[Nicole Byer]

Incredible.

[D]

Three and a half years old.

[Esther Povitsky]

Wow.

[D]

Yeah. One day I said. I said, do you want to stop? I mean, enough is enough. I don't know the exact words.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[D]

But she said, okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

Wow.

[D]

And that was it.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's impressive.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Look at you.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay, well, thank you, Mom. So I was afraid to sleep alone.

[D]

Oh, yeah. Always.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah.

[D]

She never liked it. Anytime you put her in her crib, she just scream and cry.

[Esther Povitsky]

The crib. To be in a raised cage. Right. To be. To be like in a bird cage.

[Nicole Byer]

A bird cage.

[Jacqueline Novak]

The new fear that they're putting out there into the mom world is that a mattress on the floor, is not it? Because there's. It's not breathable and mold will fester underneath. Your baby will have some. I'm telling you the longest list of fears that they just instill in your head.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's exhausting.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You'll never get it right.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. You're just choosing which. Which way you're getting it wrong.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Exactly.

[Esther Povitsky]

You're like, which way could I live with more?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah, but. But the mattress on the floor sounds like an easy solution. You're like, oh, that makes sense.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

What's our invention around motherhood and cribs, guys?

[Nicole Byer]

Well, I. I do want to know, because you are a data. No. Data.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

User.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Whoop and whatever.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Is there something that you're looking for that you'd like to know that you're not getting? Or what is your favorite thing that you learn about yourself through those things?

[Esther Povitsky]

All right, let me think. Because I want. I want so much.

[Nicole Byer]

List them all.

[Esther Povitsky]

I want Constant. I really do want to. The band I had on my forehead was not that good with the brain waves. I really want, like, the biofeedback that trains you. You know what I'd really like? I want it on stage. I want to have my set right from before also, like, hour before the whole thing, after, and see what's going on.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because if it's like, oh, this part's great, and da, da, da, da. And it's like my brain waves are in whatever state they're in, and it's like, oh, that's where the good stuff happens.

[Nicole Byer]

What is, like, the end result, the ideal end result of, like, your current contraptions and, like, systems? Like, is it. Are you trying.

[Esther Povitsky]

You ready?

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's literally, like, in service of the arts.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, I mean, like, just, like, it's so, like. But it's all to, like. What wakes me in the night is this fear of, you know, not making as much thing, like, making as much duh art as I'd like to. Of course, Constant, like, mourning the unfinished projects. And, you know, I was looking through these notebooks, and, you know, it's like 10 years ago, and it's like, I'm doing the same. Okay. I see these diaries. Like, okay, well, what if tomorrow I were to, like, do my day this way? And it's like a lifetime of this kind of. And it does work. Like, things do happen. Like, it'll.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, well. Yeah. You've made a show, a special. You've written a book. Like, you get. You're clearly someone that can do it.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

So it's not like you've done nothing.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

So I understand. I feel similar where it's like, I've done things, but I'm like, well, that'll never Happen again. Because I can't. It's so hard.

[Esther Povitsky]

The hall, like, to.

[Nicole Byer]

Or like, when you burn a whole hour material, it's like, then what? I don't know.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But do you ever have the opposite thought of, like, I cannot believe I did that. Like, you look back and you're like, yeah, me. I did that. That's incredible. I never, like, congratulate yourself.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, well, I'm more just like, I can't believe I. I can't believe I did that. It's like, I.

[Esther Povitsky]

You mean, like regret.

[Nicole Byer]

No. Yeah. Like, I don't know how I.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right.

[Nicole Byer]

Did that.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, imposter in the reverse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that wasn't me, but it is.

[Nicole Byer]

This is. It is. I relate to the struggle. I think most people do who want to pursue something creative is. Why is it so hard to get it out there?

[Esther Povitsky]

Just this lifelong sort of fight with yourself. I mean, it's. It's crazy, like, but it's also. I'm for it. It's like the only way I want to live. It's like. It's wild. So, yeah, I'm at Staples, browsing in service of America. It's like, I'm like. I'm wearables because I'm like, an artiste. It's very, you know, another invention.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I had another invention. I thought, I know they have the boards you can write on in the shower.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because the shower, for me, I had one of those, of course.

[Jacqueline Novak]

A place where, like, a lot of, like, my ideas.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Our first. I all of a sudden, like, I'm super ambitious in the shower. I can do it. All right.

[Esther Povitsky]

Totally.

[Jacqueline Novak]

There has to be something more than just a board.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

To where, as I'm thinking it, it's being transcribed, like, in. In full. Well, not just bullet points.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, yes.

[Esther Povitsky]

The thoughts. Or are you speaking aloud and it's.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Recording aloud and it's being transcribed somewhere. Yeah. And it's capturing the images I. I'm thinking in my brain in the shower.

[Esther Povitsky]

So that. No. So it's direct from your brain.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Direct from your brain.

[Esther Povitsky]

You're not talking about my analog device inside of a waterproof bag.

[Jacqueline Novak]

No, no, no. We're not talking analog. Like, something where I can just be like, boop. And it's downloading all of this vivid, like, ambitious because I've already in. In the shower. I'm from beginning to end. I have a whole plan.

[Nicole Byer]

This is the shower.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I'm like, oh, I've forgotten everything, and I'm never going to execute.

[Nicole Byer]

This is me falling asleep at Night.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Really?

[Nicole Byer]

Same thing? Yeah. And then I. I sometimes will make a little note, and then usually I don't. I'm like, I'll remember this, and then it's gone.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And then you don't same. I never do either.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, I have some more systems for you because capture. Which is what you're kind of talking about. Like, the fear of not capturing.

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right. So, like, you need one. You trust. Like, I download software, do writing in it, and forget that I downloaded software. Okay. And the writing's lost. So the other day, I downloaded, like, Craft. I think I was like, a new writing software. That'll be fun, right? Download it. You already have a subscription. I do. I open it up. Four projects inside of it that I, like, wrote chapters, like, gone.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Wow.

[Esther Povitsky]

But anyway. But that's it. That's why. What else do I got going in here?

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God, the hobonichi. Yeah, I got it, too. Yes, but yours looks so much more better than mine.

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, did you get. Because this is Jan through June. No, it's two books I'm trying this year. And this is a. Check this out. Little dashboard, okay? Stays in the day. I throw stickies on that dashboard. That dashboard can come with me the next day.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay.

[Nicole Byer]

You're sick.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know. But again, talk to me in one month. I mean, I have a completely empty one of these from last year with, like, two entries and from the previous year.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, I just want to know, like, on your day, like, what are you writing on? What are all these, like, things sticking out?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. So a lot of those are like. So this is how I'm gonna do it. So this is how I'm gonna do it, right? I don't stick to always. The system is constantly evolving, right? So, like, right now, the first step is that I have to sit down with this thing, okay? Like, number one, get in front of the journal. Right? So I try to do that in the morning. So today, huge, actually. And I was still late. Okay? But today I go. I go, 1pm Burbank. Okay? This is me doing some quick planning. In the morning, I go parentheses, 1245 arrival. To buy myself a little time for building, you know, lateness. Okay? Then I go, 1pm Burn it. So 45. So I go, leave at noon. Give 45 minutes.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, my God. I was like, I have 35 minutes before this other call. I'm like, wait, that's all I have. I had visions. Because I thought today, okay? I was like, I gotta. I can't with the blazer. I'm going to the Grove. Okay.

[Nicole Byer]

Today?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. I was imagining I was gonna do this before. Oh, okay. I was gonna get, like, new makeup. Okay. I was like. I was like, I'm gonna get new makeup. Maybe I'll get a new blazer. Okay. I'll buzz in there feeling like a million dollars for once, you know what I mean? And then I was like, I have 35 minutes to get ready. And it was like, all right, I guess I'm grabbing a lip gloss. But that. That alone was huge.

[Nicole Byer]

I did this once, like, I was going to a wedding recently, and I didn't bring the shoes. The exact shoes that I have that I really wanted to wear. And I was. It was really bothering me. The whole day of the wedding, I was like, I can't believe it. I have the perfect shoes, but they're in L. A. I'm in New York. Like, there's no way. And then I. There's a. The store that sells the shoes, like, blocks away. I'm like, I'm just going to go buy them. They're sure. They're really expensive. I'm just gonna go buy a new pair. I have exactly the amount of time I run. I'm in New York City. I'm running down, like, whatever. There's, like, tourists, and I'm just this girl jogging in jeans. I get to the store, there's a line to get in the store, and I'm like, the party's over. I can't, and I have to run back. It was such a.

[Esther Povitsky]

It was.

[Nicole Byer]

I had this beautiful vision, and it was like my life was romantic for the first time in so long.

[Esther Povitsky]

God.

[Nicole Byer]

And it was all. It was all worth it. Just because I had the fantasy of rebuying the shoes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You almost got there.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Yeah. You got to the anticipation.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

But, yeah, these. These ways of. I mean, like, motivating, getting a little, like, inspiration to me is trying to fit something into not enough time. I'm like, imagine if I could somehow go to the Grove and have a new life before I. Before I get over to the podcast. All from Nordstrom's.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You know, my latest struggle is demand avoidance.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, my God.

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's a struggle.

[Esther Povitsky]

Are you adhd?

[Jacqueline Novak]

I. I've never been, like, initially diagnosed, but I definitely, like, see some. But the avoidance has been a huge thing for me, especially as. Forever. Yeah. The moment my mom says, do this, I promise you, I am never doing that. She asked me because she wanted to return this little thing for me from Amazon. She's like, I want to save you money. I want to get you your $42 back. The moment she said I had to, I was like, I'm happy to lose those $42.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, my God.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I will. Only because she's asking me to give her the code from my Amazon for the rit. And she's. By the way, she's doing all the work.

[Nicole Byer]

Just so you know, if you ever wanted to, me and you could switch moms and neither of us would notice.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Really.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, you. We could literally switch moms. Like, I'll come to your house and do your life, you come to mine.

[Esther Povitsky]

Maybe that would work.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I do see that. Because your mom's love language is also vacuum and cleaning.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's so great.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I love it. So I'm the girl who sits in bed.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Like, just bed rotting while my mom is folding clothes around me. And I still am angry at her.

[Esther Povitsky]

Of course.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You're doing all the right things.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, I. I don't know. I do. You can imagine.

[Nicole Byer]

I just need to hear this.

[Esther Povitsky]

Does the cleaning feel hostile?

[Jacqueline Novak]

The. The cleaning feels like she's trying to fill holes in her body.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's not really. She's not doing it for me. She's doing it for something that's missing in her body.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And I really just want her to, like, hang with me. And she's not able to.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

She doesn't know how to hang.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

She has to be a busy body.

[Esther Povitsky]

Always.

[Nicole Byer]

My dad. This is a big complaint in my household when my dad's like, I have no one to sit and watch TV with me. Because she'll be like, okay, I'll watch it. She'll sit down, and then she'll get right back up. It's, like, so crazy. But see, that's what I mean. I look at that, and I'm like, what's wrong with me? Because I am laying in bed and I'm exhausted. Like, when you get all of the sleep, you're still tired, right?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Because that was, like, crazy. Right. But you just mean, like, my regular. Getting enough sleep these days, I'm. I have enough energy. I will say it's more like halfway through the day. The anxiety, the thinking, the too much. I will need naps that are, like, basically just about turning my brain off. It's like. And so it's kind of like if I can get through, like. Like the day is too. It's too much, man. You know what I mean? Like, just leave it alone in my house. Like, I need to wipe it down. Yeah. Power down. So, like, lay down with literally an ice pack under my sort of neck. And I think of it like I'm cooling it off.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That kind of works because that triggers your, like, mammalian reflex.

[Esther Povitsky]

It does. It's something. Yeah, yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

So it actually. It's a mammalian diving reflex where you put. For instance, when I have palpitations. Right. So I have an arrhythmia. So when my heart is popping off, the first thing I have to do is dunk my face, obviously, in, like, cold water. And that drives my heart rate down almost instantaneously. So it's the same thing.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Then when your heart rate goes down.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You feel more relaxed.

[Esther Povitsky]

Then, like, I actually go to sleep with an ice pack. I mean, within a few minutes, like, I kind of toss it aside usually. But I'm like, I know that I'm going to lay down and. And, you know, there's like. Yeah. And the soft ones, you know, like, they're fantastic. Right. And you're just like, right under there. And it's just. It's such a difference from every other part of the day. It's so definably different. What about baths?

[Jacqueline Novak]

I. Because you're a bedrotter, but I don't like baths, surprisingly. I love extremely obnoxiously hot showers.

[Esther Povitsky]

Amazing. I'm always impressed by the people who really can hack it with, like. With the shower being like, does it.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But it's not good for me. Like, I'm lightheaded, but I think I've.

[Nicole Byer]

Heard that it is good for you.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I don't think so. I think it's good for you because, like, the sauna and stuff. For you. But because I have low blood pressure and because I have, like, heart palpitations, like Jacuzzi and stuff.

[Esther Povitsky]

There's like, a sign hanging outside the Jacuzzi. That's.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But I've hacked it, so I've hacked all of this. This is going to sound insane. I bring a cold coconut water in the shower with me.

[Esther Povitsky]

Doesn't sound remotely insane. I never don't have a drink or my phone in the shower, actually.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Thank you.

[Esther Povitsky]

That changed.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But thank you.

[Esther Povitsky]

I was a huge cracker eater. And, like, in the shower.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, cracker is crazy.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like. No, I know, I know.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Isn't it mush out. Just get mushy.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, that's. Race against time. Okay. It's like, finally there's a. There's. There's. Yeah. There's an excitement. Like, here's what it really be, like, Be like, put saltine in my mouth. And going and getting in the shower and just there's an overlap where like that saltine kind of. But yeah, like true dream. Like really like a couple. Couple crackers and like get into the shower. Like it's so. It's like it's so wrong. You know what I mean?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Like, it is so wrong. But you know what? That's actually. That's clever.

[Esther Povitsky]

It feels like an emergency. It feels like things are like things are like you're in. You're in the midst of a storm. Okay. But you found some food and you're like. And so you're like freezing, but like, you know what I mean? Like you're in the river.

[Nicole Byer]

But did you like play alone a lot as a kid? Your imagination is like so it's just perfect.

[Esther Povitsky]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Nicole Byer]

Were you a lonely child? That's the only thing I can think of.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, like I. I had good imagination friends.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, not imagine. I actually never had an imaginary friend. I mean, like from my other friend. We just like the basement in my house. We were like playing like apartment. Like it was like we're at their apartment and we're like, lawyers.

[Nicole Byer]

Can we do that? Can we play apartment later tonight?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Why. Why did we ever never stop playing? Pretend. Wait, I still do.

[Esther Povitsky]

No. Yeah, my thing.

[Jacqueline Novak]

What's your secret plate? Pretend.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, what's yours?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, my God.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay, wait, wait. What room does it take place in? Or is it everywhere?

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's literally everywhere. But only my sister knows deep dark secret of mine. And I am so embarrassed. You would never guess.

[Esther Povitsky]

Should we choose like a 20 questions?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Who am I?

[Esther Povitsky]

Are you a criminal?

[Jacqueline Novak]

No.

[Esther Povitsky]

Are you a. Are you something magical?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Kind of.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right. Are you a mermaid? That.

[Jacqueline Novak]

No.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay. Do you have special ability?

[Jacqueline Novak]

No.

[Nicole Byer]

Are you an animal?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yes. I'm human.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh.

[Nicole Byer]

What? Right, Right.

[Jacqueline Novak]

But it's actually, it's. It's. It's not even that extreme of an imagination. I'll just.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right. Fine. Fine.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I'm literally Miss Universe.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like you currently hold the title.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I'm the title holder. I have a crown on my head. I do the wave. I've done it since I was a kid. I've invented a song. My walk out song.

[Esther Povitsky]

Since you were a kid. Okay.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You want to. Guys want to hear my song?

[Esther Povitsky]

Sure.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I made Bobby recreate on GarageBand because.

[Esther Povitsky]

It'S a made up song.

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's a made up song in my.

[Esther Povitsky]

You wrote. Yeah.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And on a bad day I'm still waving with a crown on my head.

[Esther Povitsky]

I have so many questions. I'm so into this. But sing the song first.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Okay. I'm not a good singer, but it goes and it repeats and I am doing my walk out Miss Universe song.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh my God.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And I haven't let go of this play pretend thing.

[Esther Povitsky]

So, so, so, so the. So it's not that you're going about your day as Miss Universe would go about her day or Miss Universe driving in her car and setting the title. It's just like you play the moment of winning.

[Jacqueline Novak]

The winning.

[Esther Povitsky]

So you play. Right. So you play the. Your name is said and out you come. And you'll do that, let's say, wherever you are. But will you actually physically do it? Like you'll physically do the waving or just imagining yourself doing the waving?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh, I'm doing the waving. I'm doing the whole walkout. And the crazy thing is this is how you know homophobic people are actually homosexual. Because I have talked about pageants my whole life.

[Esther Povitsky]

So funny.

[Jacqueline Novak]

And I've literally been like, why do they still do this? A swimsuit competition? Like, this is so objectifying of women.

[Nicole Byer]

And then it's like, then the second you close the door to your house, you're like.

[Esther Povitsky]

Amazing.

[Jacqueline Novak]

It's crazy.

[Esther Povitsky]

Do you walk out of a door? Like, do you use physical space for this? So will you walk out of a door or anything?

[Jacqueline Novak]

I will walk out of the door. And the moment my sister hears the song, she knows that she knows her role in it.

[Esther Povitsky]

So you sing the melody like you sing the. Your own background music?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah, I sing my own music.

[Esther Povitsky]

Do you do any speeches?

[Jacqueline Novak]

No speeches. It's literally just a walk out.

[Nicole Byer]

I think tonight you should give a speech.

[Jacqueline Novak]

You think I should?

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. When you win tonight, I think you should have find some words.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Okay. Another.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes, if you want to think another one.

[Jacqueline Novak]

I, I literally memorized Miss Universe Sushmita Sen's answer that made her Miss Universe.

[Esther Povitsky]

Wait, will you give it to us now?

[Jacqueline Novak]

The essence of a woman.

[Esther Povitsky]

Give it to me now. Okay. Or is it too, too personal?

[Jacqueline Novak]

Too personal?

[Esther Povitsky]

Totally. Like, I can look it up later, but for you to right now say it is like you're revealing mantra or something.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Yeah, but it is her answer. And it's really basic. It's basic pageant answer. But when I was younger, I was like the essence of a woman. Yes. And I, I captured, captured that moment. I took it in and I spent my whole life telling everyone how stupid pageants are. And I walk around like a pageant queen.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh my God.

[Esther Povitsky]

You know what? I. Okay, this is, this is very special.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Is it Too late for me to join Miss.

[Nicole Byer]

Well, maybe they have, like, 40 year olds.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, well, no. My mom always says this thing. It's, like, really interesting. She's like, you cannot. If you are put in any contest, you cannot shake this belief that you could win. So she has this thing that she says which is like, if she at, you know, she said this At 55, at, you know, 70 is like a thing we reference, right? She's like, if she went into Miss America pageant or something like that, like, she's not gonna win. Okay? Like, she's like, you know, except as like a joke or whatever, right? Like, she shouldn't win. But when it comes to the moment of announcing, there's something in you that's like, is it me?

[Nicole Byer]

Yes. Yes, yes. Like, I have had this one. I've been on actual competition shows. I go in and I'm like, there's no way. I don't even want to do this. But then you fall into the. The. The dance of it.

[Esther Povitsky]

Destiny. Almost like this story of destiny about yourself.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, it's like, suddenly this world is the only world that matters. And like, suddenly you're like, I'm gonna make it. And it's like, no, you're not.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's not like, did you do stand up?

[Nicole Byer]

I did last comic standing, and I think I got cut right before the final. No, imagine I got cut. I made it to the top, like 100, and then maybe like at the top 40. I don't remember. It was so. I literally was like, I don't even want to do this. I had a bad. I should have. I should have taken it seriously and wanted to do it now.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Judges that year, Roseanne.

[Nicole Byer]

Roseanne.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Norm.

[Nicole Byer]

Norm. And I forgot the third one because my inner. My very Roseanne was really nice to me. And then Norm was really nice to me. And then my second set, Norm was really mean, and we got into this big altercation, and I was so. My God, I was, like, so embarrassed afterwards that I, like, had my agents be like, they can't air that. Like, it's too humiliating. But now I think it's kind of funny. And then we since made up, but I was like, picked a huge fight with him and felt bad, but. And then I ran into him years later, and he didn't even remember happened. But the whole time I was like, he hates me. I'm this little brat. Like, I was holding on to this, like, fake story.

[Esther Povitsky]

But of course, yeah. Anyways, Set up. It's set up for that.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. It cut because the Stakes feel so high when like the cameras and the lights and it's like 10 minutes ago I didn't care about any of this.

[Esther Povitsky]

But now you're in the world. It's like the same when you're watching those shows. Like, like when I'm watching like so youo Think youk Can Dance.

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Esther Povitsky]

Big one. Like, it's so incredible. I mean, like the artistry that we get to. We get to see choreography. We get to see like so when they're. When they're like whether they're gonna make it to Vegas or whatever. Like, I mean, it's just. I'm so in it with them. It's unbelievable. Like, I think nothing matters but them winning, you know?

[Nicole Byer]

Okay. I feel like we could talk forever.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know, I know. I'll never leave.

[Nicole Byer]

I actually won't be satisfied until you sign a contract that allows me to become a documentarian of your life. Like, I want to follow you home. I want to see your place. Like, I need to know everything.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh my God, you'll be shocked. I'll start sending you videos of my home.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's like I. Please. Because I'm like, I live in chaos. Anyway. This has been huge.

[Jacqueline Novak]

Oh my God, thank you so much.

[Nicole Byer]

Seriously. And also, I am a paid subscriber of her podcast. It's the Novak and brilliant Untitled Project. Is that what it's called now? Currently it's Berlant, Novak, Berlant and Novak. Untitled Podcast. Formerly Poo.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

But I listen every week and it's the only hour of my week where I feel seen and understood while I'm just like cleaning and it's all one.

[Esther Povitsky]

Can hope to offer in an audio project.

[Nicole Byer]

It's so important to me. Like I.

[Esther Povitsky]

Thank you.

[Nicole Byer]

It has gotten me through. Truly. Like it's the best podcast. You guys have to listen to it. And if you haven't watched her Netflix special yet, get on your knees. Watch it for the outfit alone.

[Jacqueline Novak]

That outfit?

[Esther Povitsky]

Really? Thank you.

[Nicole Byer]

You figured something out with that. Like you created a genre. It was Emmy nominated. No big deal. So check that out on Netflix and anything else. We're just waiting for your five minute. I can't wait to hear how long you go for the five minute beeper.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh my God.

[Nicole Byer]

Buzzer.

[Esther Povitsky]

I think it's gonna be huge.

[Nicole Byer]

I know.

[Esther Povitsky]

Last night I played back. Played it back in the. In the shower. I played back the day you did. Cuz the days. Cuz it's just so you record every five minutes like what I'm doing, but just really quick. So three minutes at the end of day. It's like 11:55, walking into Staples. 12:05, leaving Staples Dam. I just got a text. Kind of got off track. I listened to it while showering.

[Nicole Byer]

This is a really interesting experiment. Like, this should be it. Like, this should go viral on Tick Tock.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, this experiment. Like, kids should be doing this. By kids, I mean, 28 year olds, but yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, we'll see.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. Well, Jacqueline, thank you. We love.

[Esther Povitsky]

Thank you so much for having me. What a delightful conversation.

[Nicole Byer]

We're addicted and Slugs will see you next week with a brand new episode. Oh, my God. Here. So I'm like, not even.