Looking for Holes in the Fence of Life w/ Rachel Bloom

Summary

Trash Tuesday Episode Summary: "Looking for Holes in the Fence of Life" with Rachel Bloom

Release Date: January 14, 2025

Hosts: Esther Povitsky & Khalyla Kuhn
Guest: Rachel Bloom

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Trash Tuesday," hosts Esther Povitsky and Khalyla Kuhn are joined by the talented actress, comedian, and creator Rachel Bloom. Together, they delve deep into personal traumas, mental health struggles, hormonal imbalances, and the intricate dynamics of friendships and emotional expression. The conversation is both raw and relatable, offering listeners a genuine look into the challenges and coping mechanisms that many face.

---

Hormonal Health and Personal Transformations

One of the primary topics discussed revolves around the profound impact hormones can have on one's physical and mental well-being.

• Rachel Bloom's Journey with Breast Reduction and Hormones:

  Rachel shares her experience with hormone fluctuations post-pregnancy:

  "My breasts were down to my belly button... I couldn't live like this." [04:25] – Rachel

  Rachel explains how hormonal changes led to significant physical transformations, prompting her to undergo breast reduction surgery. She highlights the interplay between estrogen levels and breast sensitivity:

  "I have very low estrogen, so they're very sensitive." [04:33] – Rachel

  Post-surgery, Rachel discusses the benefits of hormone patches in stabilizing her mood and alleviating symptoms associated with low estrogen and testosterone:

  "The hormone patch has been wonderful." [05:47] – Rachel

• Esther and Khalyla’s Hormonal Challenges:

  The conversation shifts to Khalyla's experience with hormonal imbalances, specifically her low progesterone and high testosterone levels, which affect her mood and energy levels:

  "I have pcos, so my progesterone is super, super low... and my testosterone is through the roof." [07:10] – Khalyla

  Both hosts emphasize the complexity of hormonal health and its subtle yet impactful effects on daily life.

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Mental Health Struggles and Coping Mechanisms

The trio delves into their personal battles with mental health, discussing strategies and the importance of self-compassion.

• Rachel Bloom on OCD and Anxiety:

  Rachel opens up about her lifelong struggle with OCD, tracing its origins to childhood:

  "I started to have guilty thoughts, and they would consume me." [23:08] – Rachel

  She introduces the "holes in the fence" analogy from her therapist, illustrating how anxiety seeks out vulnerabilities in one's mental defenses:

  "It's like, you've built a fence around your life to protect yourself... your brain is always looking for holes in that protective fence." [24:44] – Rachel

• Thought Stopping and Cognitive Behavioral Techniques:

  Both Rachel and Khalyla discuss the effectiveness of thought-stopping techniques in managing intrusive thoughts and anxiety:

  "The only thing that works for me is stop... I just try to breathe and be as present as I can." [34:36] – Rachel
  "I picture the door closing... it's like, nope, nope, I'm not aggressive with it." [35:18] – Khalyla

• Self-Compassion Practices:

  Rachel shares exercises from her self-compassion workbook, emphasizing the importance of treating oneself with the same kindness extended to others:

  "Have that same uncomplicated, like, love and positivity for yourself." [49:53] – Rachel

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Friendship and Sharing Dynamics

The episode explores the nuances of sharing within friendships, highlighting Esther and Khalyla’s differing approaches.

• Esther’s Struggle with Sharing:

  Reflecting on past behaviors, Esther admits her reluctance to share, stemming from high personal standards:

  "I was like, how dare you ask me to share?" [16:14] – Esther

  However, she acknowledges growth and improvement in her ability to share, crediting Rachel and Khalyla for their support:

  "We've been working through the issues... Rachel, you've been helping guide me." [17:58] – Esther

• Khalyla’s Generosity Despite Personal Boundaries:

  Khalyla illustrates her generosity through anecdotes of sharing, even when balancing her own needs:

  "I'm the best at sharing... but you just use my deodorant." [16:33] – Khalyla

  The discussion underscores the balance between generosity and maintaining personal boundaries.

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Gender Differences in Emotional Expression

A significant portion of the conversation is dedicated to understanding and bridging the emotional expression gaps between men and women.

• Societal Pressures and Emotional Suppression:

  Rachel and Khalyla examine how societal expectations influence emotional expression, particularly among men:

  "The pressure to come off as nice and pleasant and okay... is not something men seem to think about as much." [55:17] – Rachel

  Khalyla highlights the societal privilege men often enjoy by not being encouraged to express vulnerability:

  "It's like a privilege that they don't have to think about... having everything together." [55:38] – Khalyla

• Impact on Relationships and Friendship Dynamics:

  The hosts discuss how these emotional dynamics affect friendships and personal relationships, advocating for more open emotional communication:

  "I wish that men would open up and consider that like sharing and being more open about their feelings." [60:07] – Esther
  "Men are either super chill or shut the fuck down." [65:12] – Rachel

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Parenting, Empathy, and Emotional Resilience

Parenting is another focal point, with the hosts sharing their experiences and the emotional complexities it brings.

• Balancing Love and Fear as New Parents:

  Rachel discusses the emotional turmoil of becoming a new parent during a pandemic, compounded by personal losses:

  "The day I gave birth, Adam Schlesinger died of COVID." [12:07] – Rachel
  "Having a kid's changed the way I see so much about the world. It is cracked open." [41:44] – Rachel

• Maintaining Emotional Resilience:

  Both Esther and Khalyla talk about their efforts to remain emotionally resilient amidst parenting challenges:

  "I believe in her... but I'm the problem. I go, there's problems with me." [43:56] – Esther
  "Your body's been through war... Stay with me." [42:15] – Rachel

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Experiences During COVID-19 and Personal Traumas

The episode touches upon the profound impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on personal lives, emphasizing isolation and unexpected challenges.

• Rachel’s Pandemic Pregnancy and Traumatic Experiences:

  Rachel recounts the harrowing experience of giving birth during the onset of COVID-19 and facing the loss of her songwriting partner shortly after:

  "I gave birth in late March 2020... Adam died exactly a week after she was born." [12:05] – Rachel

  She details the compounded stressors of housing issues, pest infestations, and environmental challenges:

  "Rats, bees, heat, fire, air... it was a really traumatic time." [13:45] – Rachel

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Self-Compassion and Therapy

The trio emphasizes the importance of self-compassion and seeking professional help in overcoming mental health challenges.

• Rachel’s Therapeutic Journey:

  After the tragic loss of her psychiatrist during the pandemic, Rachel discusses the importance of finding a new therapist and the role of cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) in her healing process:

  "I have a self-compassion workbook... but it's so hard." [50:09] – Rachel
  "Self-compassion is hard for everyone." [51:36] – Rachel

• Esther and Khalyla’s Support Systems:

  Esther shares her participation in a weekly women's support group, highlighting the lack of similar support systems for men:

  "I wish men had support groups... because you guys need the support and the connection." [62:12] – Esther

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the shared experiences and the importance of understanding and supporting each other through life's challenges. They encourage listeners to seek help, practice self-compassion, and foster open emotional communication within their relationships.

"Look out for yourselves." [66:06] – Esther
"Stay with me." [66:21] – Rachel

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Notable Quotes:

• "It's like, your brain is always looking for holes in that protective fence." – Rachel Bloom [24:44]
• "Have that same uncomplicated, like, love and positivity for yourself." – Rachel Bloom [49:53]
• "Men are either super chill or shut the fuck down." – Rachel Bloom [65:12]
• "Self-compassion is hard for everyone." – Rachel Bloom [51:36]

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About the Hosts and Guest

Esther Povitsky: Comedian, actress, and known for her candid discussions on personal traumas and mental health.

Khalyla Kuhn: Seasoned podcaster, entrepreneur, and advocate for mental health awareness, often blending humor with deep conversations.

Rachel Bloom: Acclaimed actress, comedian, and creator of the critically acclaimed series "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend," bringing her authentic voice and experiences to the conversation.

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This episode of "Trash Tuesday" offers a heartfelt and honest exploration of complex emotional landscapes, making it a must-listen for anyone navigating similar challenges or seeking authentic discussions on mental health and personal growth.

Transcript

[Esther Povitsky]

Hi Slugs. So a lot is going on over here. This week's episode was obviously pre recorded, so bear that in mind but do enjoy it. That being said, Kalila, Jenna and I got together and we just recorded an update of what's going on with us and like a fresh new episode that we're using to launch our Patreon right now. And all of the proceeds will go to Wildfire Relief funds because things are crazy. And as you will see in the Patreon episode that we release, things are crazy. And we just want to send so much love out there to Anise, Slugs, everyone out there who is affected at all of la. And we're thinking of you and we are currently safe and we hope that you are too. And we love you guys. And the Patreon info is below. And remember that all the proceeds from that will be going to Wildfire Relief Fund, which Kilila is going to pick the one cuz she knows way more about what's going on right now, which you'll see why. And so I can't name the exact fund because I don't know cuz I'm stupid. But we love you guys. Stay safe and thank you for your support of our show and of the world.

[Rachel Bloom]

Hi, Slugs.

[Esther Povitsky]

There's my camera. Welcome back. We've got Rachel Bloom here today and filling in for Atikalai, Jules and Jenna, the double Js. Rachel. Hi.

[Rachel Bloom]

Hi.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's been like, have I seen you since COVID I don't even know the. Sorry to say the C word. I know. That's like so lame.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, is that a thing?

[Esther Povitsky]

I don't know.

[Rachel Bloom]

I. I mean I just put out a special that's all about COVID so it's so good. I hope it's not like everyone wants to forget it.

[Kalila]

It's not lame. It's just lame because Esther said it.

[Rachel Bloom]

I saw. Did you come to any of the reboot stuff?

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh yeah, that's right. We were on a show together. Reboot.

[Rachel Bloom]

You were literally on reboot. And then did you come to any of the events?

[Esther Povitsky]

No, I definitely didn't do that. Okay. I have a weird. Like I implemented a weird no event policy at one point, like four years ago.

[Rachel Bloom]

Love it.

[Esther Povitsky]

But it's then now I'm realizing that suck actually like just makes you a shitty person. Like then you're. But not only like to the outside world, but to yourself. Because then like you're just at home all the time. That's not good for anyone. Anybody.

[Rachel Bloom]

I think it depends what your goal is. I mean, I think I. I.

[Esther Povitsky]

Wait. I just asked you this because I'm not sure if I'm making it up or not. Did you get a breast reduction?

[Rachel Bloom]

Yes.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay.

[Rachel Bloom]

We're on a text chain together. We're on, like, a pretty active text chain, but it's with, like, 15 other people.

[Esther Povitsky]

I get really overwhelmed by every text chain on my phone.

[Rachel Bloom]

I also, I think that you. You are more of a lurker on the text chain, which we've discussed. Which is fine.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Rachel Bloom]

Do you read it, or do you just.

[Esther Povitsky]

Or is it too much here and there? I'll check in. I'll stop by.

[Rachel Bloom]

Sure.

[Esther Povitsky]

But the reason.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'll give you a rundown after this of what's going on in everyone's life.

[Esther Povitsky]

That would be great.

[Rachel Bloom]

With a lot of the cast of crazy ex girlfriends.

[Esther Povitsky]

That would be great. But the reason I ask is because you were adjusting your mic.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

And your boobs were in the way.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

And I was like, that can't be happening if she got a breast reduction. So maybe I'm making it up.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, you're not. So when I got pregnant, and especially after I gave birth, and I don't know if this was because of breastfeeding or just body changes, I've always had, like, very. I've been through a whole hormone journey also the past year that I'm happy to talk about.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm gonna need to know everything. I will tell you.

[Rachel Bloom]

I will tell you. I'm love talking about this. So I've always had really, like, sensitive. Like, my breasts have always been really sensitive to any hormonal changes going on. I have something where, like, basically the second I went on birth control, I went from like, a C to a double D because I have very low, naturally low estrogen. So they're very sensitive. Anyway, I got pregnant, started breastfeeding. I went from where I was at, which is like a triple D, to like, a G and also, like a low G. And I have no waist. Like, my waist ends here, so my boobs were down to my belly button. And so after I stopped breastfeeding, I was like, I can't live like this. This is not the way I had to sleep with a pillow in between them because they slap against each other like a. Like a man's sweaty balls, I guess, is what guys go through sometimes where their balls stick together. Maybe. I don't know.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

That's why you see them doing this thing all the time.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. That's why they're always going.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

I wouldn't. I'm a virgin, so I wouldn't. So I got a reduction. I went to this great place where they were like, where do you want to go? And I was like, just put me back to where I was.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because you're like, you're the face of heavy boobs.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm the face of heavy. I was like, I have big tits.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, that's who I am.

[Rachel Bloom]

So they, to their credit, put me back exactly where I was, which was like, I want to say, like double D. So it was a reduction, but also like a lift. Because what, I mean, I don't know if you've experienced this, but after you're pregnant and breasts and you breastfeed, all of the kind of buoyancy in your breasts goes away and it turns into like thin skin. Where once was jello is now just pure water balloon, but, like saggy water balloon. And that's just what happens. And because it was a G and low on me, I was like, I can't live like this. So anyway, they put me back to where I was. And then I've been. I'm on like a hormone patch now because I finally. I was having a lot of problems with, like having to pee all the time, which is actually related to my low estrogen, I was going to say. So I went on a hormone patch, which has been wonderful.

[Kalila]

Tell us.

[Rachel Bloom]

It made my boobs swell.

[Kalila]

Oh.

[Rachel Bloom]

So now I'm back to being a triple D. And I'm like, I could have gone down. I could have over adjusted and gone down to like a. A big C or even just a single D. But I was like, it was like, put me back to where I was. And I think it was also symbolic of, like, this is July 2021, where it's like, put me back to where I was two years ago in so many ways.

[Esther Povitsky]

Right. I really do that.

[Rachel Bloom]

Let's rewind Covid. Let's rewind all these things because I was happy with my boobs and I wish I'd gone a little bit smaller. Maybe someday I'll get another. Another reduction. But, like, it's not that big a deal, but they still get in the way.

[Esther Povitsky]

The thought that. That thought of just like, put me back to where I was when blank is like, so painful to hear because it's just. I'm like, yes. There's so many things coming up for me. Wait. Also, you have the opposite problem as Rachel. Yeah, you. We went to college together and she was like a double D to the point where we'd Be sitting in class, and I'd be like, can I just see them? Like, they're so asshole.

[Kalila]

Nothing. I mean, and then she.

[Esther Povitsky]

She went flat on me.

[Rachel Bloom]

Whoa.

[Esther Povitsky]

And now I just. Now I just have to be her friend.

[Kalila]

I know what it is. What is it?

[Rachel Bloom]

I mean, we can.

[Kalila]

She still has to touch my. I have pcos, so my progesterone is super, super low. Like, non existent. And my testosterone is through the roof.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, my gosh. We're like. We're basically opposite because I'm on a testosterone gel now, too, because my testosterone was so low.

[Kalila]

Wow.

[Esther Povitsky]

Do you know why that happens?

[Rachel Bloom]

This hormone stuff is. And they don't. And. And my doctor. This is. She's like a generation past, like, the first person who started studying this. It's such new. I don't know if you've had this experience. It's such new science.

[Kalila]

Yeah, they.

[Rachel Bloom]

They don't. They're still figuring out a lot of.

[Kalila]

Things, and they're still giving you the tips and solutions for what they don't understand and for what they used to say 10 years ago when I was in college, like, we should probably just go on metformin. And Metformin's like, the newer thing. I'm like, that's still trash.

[Esther Povitsky]

Jules, how are you feeling about this conversation of us old women talking about Horm?

[Rachel Bloom]

You're really young.

[Jenna]

I'm 23, so.

[Rachel Bloom]

I had these problems when I was 23, though.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, okay.

[Jenna]

I think I'm normal. I have.

[Rachel Bloom]

To her, if we could like. Like a cartoon, zoom in on what you were seeing, we'd all be like these withered old crones just being like, yeah, join us someday.

[Kalila]

Yeah, I'll say. I think I'm normal.

[Jenna]

I haven't really experienced any of that.

[Kalila]

Good for you.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's awesome. I'm so happy for you.

[Jenna]

But I took a contraceptive. No, not. Yeah, the circle morning after pill.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, not the. The birth control.

[Jenna]

Birth control. The circ you just put in your vagina. I hated that. That made me turn into a different kind of person. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jenna]

I was, like, crying every day. I was. That was crazy.

[Kalila]

Because the thing is, if you're not lacking the hormones that the thing is adding to you or lacking the hormones that a birth control pill is adding to you, it's still going to throw you off balance. Right. Like, the only thing she was saying, she has lower estrogen. I have lower progesterone. So if we're getting a pill that's giving us everything that we don't need and all the pill.

[Esther Povitsky]

When I was in high school, I was on the pill, and it did really clear up my acne and made my boobs bigger. And it was kind of a great period for me junior year. Like, that was really fun.

[Kalila]

Go back on it. No, I would stop hearing about everything then.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm still on. So I'm on a progesterone only pillow. My mind has been blown. Have you ever heard of what you're of the vestibule?

[Kalila]

No. Okay.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'd never had either. And I consider myself to be, like, Reddit gynecologist.

[Kalila]

Okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

I consider you my Reddit gynecologist.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's the biggest honor I could ever hear. Okay. When you spread your inner labia and you have your vagina and your urethra, the skin around that's called your vestibule because it's like an entryway.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

And, um, and if that tissue is, like, inflamed or, like, not great, it can affect, like, your bladder. So I'm now also on a gel, where every day I take a little bit of gel and I, like, put a mirror on the ground. Like, I'm 12. And I, like, open it and I go, like. And I put this gel on my vestibule, and it's 100% helped.

[Esther Povitsky]

But basically what I feel like a lot of women don't know is that. And this is, like, getting again, Reddit gynecology, for sure, but, like, especially, like, for menopause, perimenopause, like, estrogen cream. Like, a lot of my friends who are going through that, that's like a. They. They swear by it. It's like a miracle drug for whatever issues you may be having at that time. So I just want to, like, PSA about. Ask your doctor.

[Kalila]

Can I just say one thing about the vestibule?

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, please.

[Kalila]

Two days ago, I did that thing where I had this mirror, and I'm like, oh. Because something felt off.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

And so I put it on the floor. It's like a makeup mirror that has the magnifying option.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, I could never.

[Kalila]

And I spread, and there was toilet paper on my vestibule. But that's what it was because it wasn't fully inside and it wasn't on the.

[Rachel Bloom]

And it's like, scratchy labia.

[Kalila]

Yeah, that's it.

[Rachel Bloom]

I love it. Have you given yourself, like, a close look since you've given birth?

[Esther Povitsky]

I can't talk about that.

[Rachel Bloom]

Okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's hard.

[Kalila]

She's asked me to give a close look, though.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Yeah. Give a close look. Close with, you know, whatever you're willing.

[Kalila]

To do as a friend. If I was willing to smell. Just.

[Esther Povitsky]

Just checking you're comfortable.

[Jenna]

You still. You don't want to see it?

[Esther Povitsky]

No, I have looked. It's actually fine. It's just, like, it's. I, Like, I have a lot of anxiety around female health right now, and so it's all just, like, scary. Like, I. Yeah, I do. Which I think makes sense. Like, eight months after giving birth, it's just all. I have a lot of issues.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. Your body. Your body's been through war.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Are you, like. And it's okay if this is not something you want to talk about, but, like, are you only having one? Like, is that.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, I think that's where we're at. Was just talking about this to my husband even before. So, you know, I. In my special, you know, it's all about.

[Esther Povitsky]

Basically on Netflix.

[Rachel Bloom]

On Netflix. I gave birth in late March 2020, here. And then Adam Schlesinger, my songwriting partner, died of COVID like, exactly a week after she was born. So. And then we were isolated from society. Having a newborn, I just got the chills.

[Esther Povitsky]

That was such a. Like, shocking, insane.

[Rachel Bloom]

It was. It was awful. And I found out he was sick the night I gave birth. So, like, I didn't even know he was sick. So it happened very quickly.

[Esther Povitsky]

I still remember getting.

[Rachel Bloom]

Ugh.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm like, I still remember getting a text update from you. Yeah, that was like, he's doing really great. Like, everyone says he's looking good. It's like. And then the next thing was like, no.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. The day before, they said things were really improving. And that was the day that news had leaked that he had it that he was sick. And so people were almost, like, pre grieving. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no. His vitals are actually looking better today. And then. No, it was not. But anyway, so that first year of having a newborn was, like. It was really hard. You know, we were isolated from society, basically. Like, we could only see people, like, kind of outdoors, 12ft away. Our house was, like, kind of crumbling from beneath. Like, the people who'd sold us our house kind of skimped on a lot of things, including they faked our earthquake proofing. So first of all, we got rats because our house was an open construction site. So one day we found rat poop in the nursery, and we're like, oh, God. Because. Because there was this thing of, like, rats can, like, smell the milk and, like, eat a baby's face or something.

[Esther Povitsky]

I don't know.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's just the most horrifying thing. So we had rat. Like, the rat king thing is so interesting. So we had rats, and then they opened up a wall, and in there was an old beehive from, like, 50 years ago. So there weren't bees yet. There weren't bees. But here's the thing about bees. They have great senses of smell. So it's basically, if they smell that there's an abandoned beehive, it's like, oh, my gosh, free real estate. So we had, you know, plague, rats, bees. And it was. And in relative isolation. And it was. And then our air conditioning stopped working.

[Kalila]

Oh, that's cool.

[Rachel Bloom]

During that heat wave. And then the air was bad because of the fires, remember?

[Kalila]

Yes.

[Rachel Bloom]

So, you know, plague, bees, rats, heat, fire, air. So all that to say is it was a really traumatic time, and we were one and done. I think even when I was pregnant, like, oh, I think we'll do this once. But now I just. I've heard for some people, having a second can be really healing if you had a pandemic baby. But I think for our family, one feels you're good. Correct.

[Esther Povitsky]

You're an only child in many ways.

[Rachel Bloom]

And I'm an only child.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

And honestly, being an only child is the least of my problems.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, I'm so pro. Only child. Like, I think only children are, like, more creative, more independent. Like, I think there's so many positive qualities, but I'm like. I think only children are way cooler than kids.

[Jenna]

But do you guys ever feel, like, lonely? Because they say, like, only child children, they're, like, always, like. Like, they don't really know how to socialize more, I guess.

[Kalila]

I mean, look at her.

[Rachel Bloom]

I mean, I've got a child.

[Esther Povitsky]

She's the most social person I'm.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm only child. I know. Socialize well.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yours.

[Rachel Bloom]

Your smile.

[Kalila]

I know.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. That's what friends are for. That's what friends are for. That's what summer camp's for.

[Kalila]

Like, going to school.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's what I like. Like, that's. I think that. That. That is the one thing is I will definitely send her to sleepaway camp because I hear. I wish I'd gone to sleepaway camp, because at sleepaway camp, you really learn how to be with other people. But I think it's just like, I don't know. That's what I've. That's what I've heard.

[Jenna]

There also is a thing where only children, they don't really like to share. Is that True.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, that's true for me.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's all children, though, right?

[Kalila]

Yeah, but you particularly.

[Esther Povitsky]

I struggle with sharing, actually.

[Jenna]

She's like.

[Kalila]

She's gotten so. So much better, though. Like, she used to be really bad. Like.

[Esther Povitsky]

But you're bad at sharing, and. You are kidding me. No.

[Kalila]

I'm literally the best at sharing.

[Esther Povitsky]

You are now.

[Kalila]

Yeah. You just use my deodorant.

[Esther Povitsky]

I remember in college, I offered her.

[Kalila]

Some of my drinks.

[Esther Povitsky]

I asked you for a bite of food once, and you look. Looked at me and go, how dare.

[Kalila]

Okay.

[Esther Povitsky]

You ask me for a bite of my food when you know that I have another class after this. And I also.

[Kalila]

This is true. But this is because it was finals week and I was going crazy. I really cared about my grades. I was on a scholarship. I had to maintain a 3.5 GPA.

[Esther Povitsky]

But I was like. I respected the hell out of that because I was like, I want to say, how dare you ask me to share? And this is where the Sid happened. Me, a worse sharer. Believe it or not.

[Rachel Bloom]

For the record, I'm really good at sharing. Just to say, like, I'm actually really good at sharing. And in fact, I think there was a kind of thing in my house of, like, don't share food and don't share things with people. And I think I. Maybe out of rebellion. Yeah, maybe out of rebellion, like, swung the opposite way where, like, I'll let people borrow my deodorant, my toothpaste. I don't give a shit. I'm also kind of disgusting, though, so. But I'm not. No, I like shit. I like. I. I'm really, really. I'm really.

[Kalila]

I love sharing. I can't believe you would even say that.

[Esther Povitsky]

You do, and I see that in any time, but that one memory was really strong.

[Kalila]

It was.

[Esther Povitsky]

Do you, like. Do you. Are you a sharer?

[Jenna]

Yeah, I'm. I'm okay with sharing.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kalila]

I feel like Jules never had a choice, though.

[Rachel Bloom]

What do you mean?

[Kalila]

Like, you have to share in your family. Are you kidding me?

[Rachel Bloom]

How many siblings do you have?

[Jenna]

I have three younger siblings.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's a lot of people.

[Jenna]

A lot. So I have to share, like, everything, but I'm okay with it.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenna]

I never complain.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm better at it now.

[Kalila]

Esther's really good at sharing now. It's been, like, so surprising.

[Esther Povitsky]

We've been working through the issues. Yeah.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

You've been helping guide me when I.

[Kalila]

Come over, and she'll be like, do you. Would you like some water to go? And I'm like, are you kidding me, bitch? What? I'd be getting some cans sometimes to go, wait, I have to.

[Esther Povitsky]

I also have to give you so much credit, Rachel, because I, like, I went off my antidepressants when I was pregnant. I was like, I'm fine. And then. And then I.

[Kalila]

Then she was not.

[Rachel Bloom]

I stayed on mine.

[Esther Povitsky]

Then I went. Then I got. Had the baby and I was not fine. And I went back on, but I had all this self hatred and literally over and over in my head. And I even sent the link to our mutual friend who went on. Yeah, I've been listening to Anti. The antidepressant song you wrote. Like I said in my head, I'm like, antidepressants are so, so not a big deal. Like, I just. I think about it so much. Like, that is such an important song to me.

[Kalila]

Like, really is. Like, one of my childhood friends has been spiraling to the point of, like, calling me in the middle of the night, being like, I just can't stop picturing going outside in the middle of the street. And that song. She's on meds for the last two weeks now, and I have to report she's doing wonderfully.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's crazy. That's.

[Kalila]

But she. You sent her that song like, two weeks ago when she was like, couldn't get out of her spiraling and she was like, wow, okay, so it is normal, guys. She's like half people in her community, though, like, culturally, it's not a thing in her community. And she saw that song and she was like, wait a second.

[Esther Povitsky]

She needs more Jewish artist friends.

[Kalila]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

But also it's a thing because even before I went on them, there was definitely a part of me that was like, it's a sign of weakness, right? Where it's like, yeah, we're all depressed. I'm not gonna go on a pill. Like, life is hard. Boo hoo. Like, I definitely had a little part of me thinking that. And then at a certain point, I realized something is wrong. And I think it's chemical. Like, this doesn't feel. And there's a lot of shame in, like, I'm doing this to myself. I'm choosing to have negative thoughts, which is like, why, like, the power of positive thinking messaging can be at times so toxic. Because it's like, yeah, positive thinking is great, but if you chemically have an imbalance, it's impossible. And because it's the way your neurons transfer different chemicals to each other. And I've doubled my Prozac in the. I mean, I just went on the next higher dose and it's been great. It's been really, really great. And it's not in this thing of like, oh, it makes you numb, it makes you a robot. I think if you're over medicated. Yeah. But if you're on a dose, it just makes me. The lows aren't as low. And also like my intrusive thoughts and my anxiety and my OCD is just so it. All it does is support what I'm learning in therapy and all of the skills that I'm learning in therapy. And so the. Yeah, the idea of like, buck up and you're just soft and weak is like, it's, it's chemical though.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know. I also really take such offense to the people that, that are like, so you're just going to be a zombie walk. And like, you obviously don't understand this at all. Like, I get it. Yes. If I was popping Xanax three times a day, I'd be a zombie. But Xanax is like there, there's different kinds of anti anxiety meds and that's not the one I'm on.

[Rachel Bloom]

You don't take Zan. I mean, I guess some people take Xanax, they're an emergency, like a panic attack kind of. Yeah, it's great. Anxiety moments. I mean, Xanax has been very helpful to me and like, you know, the in case of emergency break glass moments, like. But I mean, when I first went on Prozac, I asked my psychiatrist, I was like, I can't tell if it's working. Like, I didn't feel that different. It was only realizing. And a lot of it was also in hormonal stuff. But realizing without Prozac, oh, wait, for about a week out of the month, like I go to a really dark place and it was realizing the absence of that darkness being like, oh, oh, I didn't have my sulfate depressive spiral this month. That's what's missing. It was almost like the absence of that. And when I think about some of the lows that my brain went to and could go to before I was on medication, I didn't suddenly feel like happy. Like antidepressants don't make you like go like everything's great. It replenishes the serotonin in your brain so that you're like, oh, like you're, you're just steadier. It feels like it just makes me.

[Kalila]

More resilient to what you said about it supporting therapy. That's what I told what you're learning in therapy. That's what I told her this morning, actually, because she was like, you know, it's been two weeks, and I finally feel like I can take a breath, like, I can get through the day, like, I'm okay. But she said, but I'm still anxious, and I'm still having these. And I said, right, but now you can actually work on that in therapy. And her family is very much like, why would you go on. Why would you go on anything? But it's just a. Like, a cultural.

[Esther Povitsky]

Do you know what your, like, diagnosis is of? Like, what's your. Because I heard you mentioned ocd.

[Rachel Bloom]

I mean, in middle school, I definitely had ocd. I. I was in this really, really horrid bad pattern of basically. And I still have this to a certain extent, but basically starting in. Starting at age nine. And I think it's like a puberty thing. I think it was hormonal. I started to have guilty thoughts, and they would consume me. And the only way I could kind of purge myself was to confess these guilty thoughts to someone. And I wasn't raised religious or anything, so this is like my own brain doing something. And that's literally obsessive compulsive. I had an obsession, and then I had a compulsion to confess, and it would. Basically. It felt like relieving the. The air out of a. I don't know, like. Like there was pressure, right? It felt like. Or like when you go on an airplane and there's, like, pressure in a water bottle. It felt like for a moment, that pressure being released when I would confess. And then anywhere from 20 minutes to a day later, another thought would creep in.

[Esther Povitsky]

Whoa.

[Rachel Bloom]

And the thing that I'm still working on. Cause my intrusive thoughts are better, but they still happen. And I still have this compulsiveness a little. Is like to not engage the thought. Like, to not even. Like the thought's there, but, like, I don't need to solve it. What I try to do is I always try to solve it. Yes, because it's your brain. Like, my therapist has a great thing where she talks about holes in the fence where she's like, you've. Okay, so you've built a fence around your life to protect yourself. Your brain is always looking for holes in that protective fence.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Bloom]

And that's what anxiety is. And she's like, but some of those holes aren't real. And also.

[Esther Povitsky]

Bitch.

[Rachel Bloom]

And also trying to patch the holes kind of won't even fix it. Like, there are some holes that actually are more a problem if you think about them and try to solve them. And this is still a muscle that I work on. And, like, I was just having some, like, intrusive thought stuff in the past couple weeks, and then I got my period. And now, as of yesterday, it's suddenly so much easier to not engage in thoughts. It's so real because I had been like, my schedule, I get really fucked up when I travel, and I hadn't been traveling, but my sleep schedule got messed up. Like, I still have a really sensitive system, but it was like, oh, oh, I'm. Oh, I got my period. And now it's easier for me to do the cognitive behavioral therapy stuff of, like, nope, don't engage. It's called, like, thought stopping.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Okay. That's what.

[Rachel Bloom]

I have a therapist.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. And we're. I'm working on thought stopping too. And, like, also, we were just talking about for, like, OCD stuff. Like, maybe this is for anxiety, but, like, antidote. Like, basically, if I have a thought that's like, I'm a bad mom or I, you know, whatever it is, then to, like, take action just to do something that proves that you're not that.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Because I have a lot of. What you're talking about to. The holes in the fence is so real for me. And, like, my therapist is sort of. I feel like her gently nudging me to realize, like, there's always going to be holes in my fence.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, and I'm the kind of person where I'm like, if I just patch this hole, then, you know.

[Kalila]

But then you make it. Your job of your entire life is just like, where can I find another hole to patch? Where can I find another.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, it's your brain in survival mode. Like, it's your. It is your brain. Like, your brain is like, oh, there's a lion in the bushes. It's like a primal part of you.

[Kalila]

But it's like.

[Rachel Bloom]

But it's not. But it's, like, not true. So the only thing that works for me is stop, stop. And, like, the only place that is safe for me questioning is like, in therapy, for some reason, my brain has adjusted itself to be like, okay, in therapy, I can go to, like, the worst catastrophic places, but, like, I can't do it on my own. But I think for a lot of people, thought, questioning, thought, the questioning it and the proving to yourself really helps. It's just.

[Esther Povitsky]

For me, you're saying it doesn't work for you?

[Rachel Bloom]

Because I don't. Because I don't Trust the second I give an argument, I'm going to then give a counter argument.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, you would be a good lawyer. If you had gone to law school, which is what I'm sure all your Jewish relatives say to you. You would have been such a good lawyer.

[Rachel Bloom]

You know what I didn't have, despite what we did on Crazy Ex Girlfriend, I didn't have that type of a. Bringing in a lovely way. I was raised. I grew up here, but also I was raised pretty separate from the, like, East Coast. You have to be a doctor or a lawyer.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Which is so weird because you have such East Coast Jew energy.

[Rachel Bloom]

I know you always have had that. My dad's from Boston and my grandfather, who I spent a lot of time with, was from Brooklyn. So there's that energy, obviously, and I put a lot of pressure on myself, but I didn't have the. I have a little bit of an imposter syndrome with Jewish identity sometimes because I grew up kind of. I didn't get bat mitzvahed. I, like, my. My. My mother didn't really care about Jewish identity. Like, she wasn't Bat mitzvah. Like, my grandparents were not really that religious. And so, like, I. Even though I'm fully, you know, I'm full Jewish and like, there's. Am I Jewish enough? And like, you know, when am I taking on an identity that isn't really my truth? It's like, stuff I think about.

[Kalila]

I never feel that I know she's.

[Esther Povitsky]

Half Jewish by her mom. Is. She's. Yeah.

[Kalila]

Like, I was bat Mitzvahed, but no one ever thinks I'm Jewish or I'm half.

[Esther Povitsky]

So I'm, you know, by many accounts would not be Jewish.

[Rachel Bloom]

And it's. Your dad is Jewish, right?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, but by reformed, like, I've asked a Reform rabbi and he said, you count to us. But I actually feel such a strong Jewish identity because my dad had the bigger personality in the household. I grew up in an extremely Jewish community, so I, like, never even question it at all. It's so funny to hear you say that. You.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's not like I question my identity. I've always known I'm Jewish.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's that. What does that mean? And I think a lot of the stereotypical things around being Jewish, some of them, like, if anything else, like, all Jews talk like this. They're all from Brooklyn. Like that. That's not my experience. I don't have the, like, you gotta be a doctor. You gotta marry a Jewish boy like that.

[Kalila]

Actually, that's just like east coast, which is so different.

[Rachel Bloom]

Which is. Which is actually, like, I think, dealing more with, like, stereotypes in the media. And I think because I didn't go to Hebrew, I quit Hebrew school when I was, like, 10. I. I'm actually right now in the process of figuring out, like. Like, what, okay, what is. What does being Jewish mean to me? And Gregor, my husband, opposite, was raised, like, going to a Jewish, like, yeshiva until he was, like, 13. Grew up conservative, keeping kosher. And so also, I think in light of that, and we've been together for 16 years, so in light of that, it's caused me to be like, okay, well, what does this mean to. What does my identity mean to me and what does it mean to my daughter? Because it's also weird. It's. It's cultural, it's. It's medical, it's racial, it's medical. I'm sorry.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, you know, when it's on 23.

[Rachel Bloom]

When you get pregnant, I get pregnant, your doctor goes, basically goes, give her the Jew tests because there's a bunch of genetic disorders. Because there was a bottleneck, like, something like 800 years ago or something, and basically there were, like, 300 Jews left in the world or something like that. I don't know. I'm not allergic to this. I'm a Reddit scholar on this, so I'm still like, I don't know. There's a lot of stuff I'm, like, in process with. And also I like to say I'm a practical atheist, theoretical agnostic, which means that I don't live my life with spirituality or God being a part of it. So that. So I'm not religious. I don't believe that there's a God and that God wrote the Bible, so that's not part of me.

[Kalila]

Damn, you don't either.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, that stuff's crazy.

[Rachel Bloom]

Like, and in fact, like, certain Jewish things I've gone to where it's like, God can mean many things, where it's almost like trying to, like, reappropriate God to be more modern. I don't connect with that because I don't believe there's a God. Yeah, I much more connect to, actually. Like, let's just say the things that have been said for thousands of years, because there's something very profound in ritual for ritual's sake.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, I'm to. I totally.

[Kalila]

Nature is powerful. Like, nature is life, creation. That is, to me, it's wild.

[Rachel Bloom]

Like, I don't know, we haven't found evidence for life. Like, what if we're the only life in the entire universe look. Probably not, but that's wild God is.

[Esther Povitsky]

Just dog spelled backwards.

[Rachel Bloom]

Well, that I believe.

[Esther Povitsky]

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[Kalila]

What?

[Esther Povitsky]

The average Ibotta user earns $256 per year. That could help pay off some expenses, be put towards a vacation.

[Kalila]

Wait, I did not know this. I'm dead serious.

[Esther Povitsky]

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[Kalila]

She's been sleeping this whole time, so she's feeling great.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm sorry. This is a lot about.

[Jenna]

No, it's okay. I like listening about like all of.

[Esther Povitsky]

Our depression and anxiety and brain OCD stuff. Like, do you.

[Jenna]

I wanted to ask you about. You said that instead of thought questioning it for like intrusive thoughts, you instead. Do you just say like, you just stopping.

[Rachel Bloom]

Like, I. I'm trying to solve a problem right now that actually won't be solved by me trying to solve it. In fact, it'll make it worse.

[Jenna]

I see. So you just. You just say like, stop.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, that's what I like, kind of do. I just go stop. And like. And then I just try to like, breathe and just be as present as I can. It's almost like I try to just. I do my best to not form the worry into words in my brain. That's the second that it fucks me. And it's something really hard to do.

[Kalila]

Like she said, like, it's. It's not. Obviously it's not easy if you just do it once, but you do it multiple times. For me, I have a visual with the stopping. So I picture like a paintbrush swiping it off or a door.

[Esther Povitsky]

Does it really work? The two young kids with the paint?

[Kalila]

I think for me it does. Obviously it's. It depends on how bad it is. I have like, my, like my medical trauma is like the worst of it all. But like, especially when I'm going to bed, I picture the door closing. So every other thought that comes in, I just close. And it's not like, no, like denying it, but it's. I guess it is in a sense. It's just like, nope, nope. I'm not aggressive with it. I don't like, waste a lot of energy. It's just like, nope, nope. Next. And eventually it's like you have something to do. Like you were saying, be mindful, be thoughtful, take a breath, be in your body. I know it sounds a little woo woo, but when you actually put it to work, it woo woo works.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's just, you know, in case you feel like a snack, we have it. You don't have to have it.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, I'll always eat a banana.

[Kalila]

Potassium.

[Rachel Bloom]

I was about to just open it. I just wanted to make sure that we didn't need it as like a project, art project.

[Kalila]

Like we're playing a game. So these are huge.

[Esther Povitsky]

In your special, death, Let Me Do My Special. Available on Netflix. Nominated for a Critics Choice Award. Congratulations.

[Rachel Bloom]

Thank you.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's called Death. Let Me do my special. You talk about you love your dog. Yeah, the same. This is like. Can we write a. Like, a thesis paper on this together?

[Kalila]

Because this is huge.

[Esther Povitsky]

Tell Rachel about what? What, the day before.

[Kalila]

Oh, my God.

[Esther Povitsky]

Or the day I gave birth.

[Kalila]

The whole week before.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

So I go over to Esther's. First off. I've been trying to take pictures of her her entire pregnancy. She's like, every day is not the right day. So finally, I just texted.

[Rachel Bloom]

I feel like you posted so many pictures online of you when you were pregnant.

[Kalila]

Well, because eventually I took, like, 70.

[Esther Povitsky]

Selfies, though, mostly, but yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, you didn't want to do, like, a glamour. The thing where you're in the desert wearing a white dress.

[Kalila]

Oh, God.

[Esther Povitsky]

But the thought of any Pinterest page, even not pregnant. The thought of any planned photo shoot, I'm like, today's not the day.

[Kalila]

But I just kept saying, like, I'm gonna come over. So then finally, I te. Because he kept being like, dude, I really want photos. I'm like, I know. But she says no, and it's up to her, dude. So finally I was like, okay, what if when I come over to hang, I just bring my camera, I bring my film, and we just do it? And he's like, do it. We didn't tell you.

[Esther Povitsky]

I know.

[Kalila]

And so I just go and hang. The, like, 20 second hang turns into, like, I'm her doula now, massaging her. It's eight hours. She's going, oh, my God. Touch me more, Tia.

[Rachel Bloom]

Touch me.

[Kalila]

And we take these photos, and all of a sudden, and I have it in the picture where she's just going. She goes, I'm just really scared that.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm gonna love Donut less.

[Kalila]

Her dog. So, like, it wasn't even about the baby or loving the baby more or less. She was just so, so concerned that she might love Donut less.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

And it turned into this spiral.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. And, like, even when I was leaving for my induction, I was, like, so devastated when I, like, handed Donut off to her, like, sobbing, but happy to report I don't love her any less. And in fact, I love her more. And I want to talk about this with you because you have this. You have the same thing, right?

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. It really didn't change. I mean, I. The idea of love being a finite resource is really interesting because I. Look, I think that some people.

[Kalila]

Were you worried? Like, she was.

[Rachel Bloom]

I was worried. No, I. So I had a spiral also. The hormones flooding through you when you're pregnant are, like, really intense. And so I started to feel very. I was really nauseous for the first four months. And when I'm nauseous, I. My brain goes to a bad place, and it was almost like I'd have these hormone surges where I was, like, I would get nauseous and depressed, and I couldn't tell it was a chicken or the egg thing. And sometimes when I was pregnant, it was just all too profound. It was just, like, too much that. It was just. It was. I don't know. It was just too much. And the thing that I thought of was, like, as I watched my pregnancy progress, I started to think about life and time in these really specific ways that I hadn't before. And I realized that at a certain point, picturing my child, you know, a couple years from now, my dog won't be around, and I hadn't thought of before. Oh, no. So I had real depression about Wiley's eventual demise. And Wiley is still. I mean. I mean, Wylie's still doing great. She's 15, so she sleeps so much. And I think her hearing's going a little bit because when we come in the house, she doesn't jump up and greet us anymore. She'll still just notice on the bed. But when she's awake, her energy's the same. She just sleeps a lot.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's amazing.

[Kalila]

That's so cute. She's so happy.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. I was looking up dog ears last night, that she's a small dog. So in human years, she's 76 years old.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, little baby.

[Kalila]

What does she look like?

[Esther Povitsky]

She's so cute.

[Rachel Bloom]

She looks like a border terrier. But the genetic tests we've done, because we've done dog 23andMe, we're on embark DNA, of course.

[Kalila]

That's so cute.

[Rachel Bloom]

The. The Embark DNA tests we've done say that she's 50% purebred Shih Tzu, and then 50% 10 other types of dogs, none of which are terriers, even though she looks exactly like a border terrier. So I don't know.

[Esther Povitsky]

And you feel that you still. You love her as much as you love your child.

[Rachel Bloom]

Does that. I mean, uh, oh, like.

[Kalila]

It'S different.

[Rachel Bloom]

It hasn't. I get. I say that in the special. It's different. It's different. But here's what I'll say. It hasn't lessened my love for Wylie.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's what I feel.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay.

[Rachel Bloom]

I still love Wylie. Like, at the end of the day, when Wylie's on our bed and we're scratching her, I still have the same rush of love and affection that I have for Wylie. The emotions I feel for my child and the fears are, I think, more. A little more powerful.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay.

[Rachel Bloom]

Even though I. But I say in the special, I love them equally just. Cause, like, I basically do. But if you were to actually, you know, gun to my head, be like, well, but do you really. It's like, well, no. Like, would I. Would I. Would I jump in front of a car for my dog? I don't know. Would I jump in front of a car for my daughter? Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Okay.

[Rachel Bloom]

I would.

[Esther Povitsky]

Huh. I'm gonna just think on that.

[Rachel Bloom]

But it hasn't lessened the way I feel about Wylie. It hasn't been like, I haven't suddenly been like the lady and the tramp thing, where it's just like, go away. We hate you. That's not it anymore. We still feel the same love for her. It's just having a kid is a more, I think, intense version of that love, good and bad. Because the fears that I have, I mean, having a kid's changed the way I see so much about the world. It is cracked open.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's so overwhelming.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's cracked open my empathy. I used to be able to watch like tough movies and read tough news article, and now I. The way it's affected my. I guess I'm an empath. The way that it's affected my empathy and being destroyed by that over empathetic place has really change the way I take in a lot of media.

[Esther Povitsky]

I am so sensitive. It's disgusting.

[Kalila]

That makes sense to me.

[Esther Povitsky]

Ugh. I really hate it.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, it's awful. It's awful because they also don't. These kids don't know anything and they're on a constant campaign to injure themselves because they have no fear. And so it's horrifying.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm not there yet because she's still just a little.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Which I love a blob.

[Kalila]

But I'm also surprised and happy about. You're not like super stressful mom.

[Esther Povitsky]

No, I know. It's great.

[Kalila]

I thought you were going to be.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's great.

[Kalila]

It's really amazing. Like, I feel more stressed because I thought in the beginning, like, oh, Esther's gonna be stressed. So I have to do it this way. And I'd be like, I noticed that she lean. She Leaned over, which I'm not normally stressed like that. And I'm like, she leaned over. And Esther's like, she's fine. I'm like, oh, but like she rolled over. Yeah, we'll just roll her back over. I'm like, yes.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's weird. My. Like I have this weird thing where I'm like, she's fine.

[Kalila]

She's great because she's gonna feel like she's fine.

[Esther Povitsky]

I believe I just like have. But it's. I believe in her. But the flip side of that is that I'm the problem. I go, there's problems with me. I am. I'm wrong. So it's like I didn't escape that stress, but it's just landing, of course, on myself.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, I get. The main thing I'm working on is self compassion. And it's the hardest fucking thing in the world. Cause I also got. I got a new therapist. Cause my psychiatrist died as you.

[Kalila]

Oh, no, I have.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's another thing that happened is my psychiatrist died. He fully died. Yes, he's my psychiatrist of eight years. He died. Anyway. He died. So I have a new therapist. But anyway, she kind of turned me on to the fact that, that she's like, I think you have adhd. And we did an ADHD screener with her and she's like, okay, so you scored very high. And ever since that happened, which is like two and a half years ago, so many other things have fallen into place. And there. A lot. I mean, generalized anxiety disorder is really common in people with adhd. It's all of these like, kind of, I guess you'd say comorbidities or.

[Kalila]

Yeah, like hormonal disorder, adhd.

[Rachel Bloom]

Well, it's like, it's like, it's all. I don't know, it's all a mess. It's all a mix of a mess of stuff. But I go to a very self flagellating place because I think when your brain works differently, you're like, okay, I have to make people think that I'm normal so that people don't. I'm like so afraid of people not liking me. Like I'm terrified. Like if someone's mad at me, it feels like I've been stabbed in the stomach. And it's something with adhd, isn't it?

[Kalila]

Like rejection.

[Rachel Bloom]

Rejection, Sensitive dysphoria. Yeah, exactly.

[Kalila]

I have adhd. I was diagnosed like three times and I thought it was irrelevant and had nothing to do with me. And similarly, two years ago, just a bunch of friends being like, oh, yeah, that's your adhd. I'm like, what? It. It. It's only irrelevant. It's only relevant when I'm in school, at the library or in school. That's what I thought. And now I realize, like, I'm not unique. It's literally just my adhd. Like, all of my personality quirks, all of the things that I do that people think are, like, funny or direct. It's just. It's just that. And I don't have that rejection. What is it? Rejection. Something. Dysphoria.

[Rachel Bloom]

Sensitive dysphoria. Yeah.

[Kalila]

Yeah. I, like, love when people reject me, but so jealous. One of my best friends has it very intensely, and I didn't know that it was a thing. And she finally explained it to me because we would get into these little tiffs where she would just, like, shut down. And I'm like, what's going on? I'm really confused because I haven't said anything. And she explained that to me. And now I can be much more sensitive to it because I'm trying to think of the word in English. This is horrible. Like. Like, what is it? It doesn't cost me much.

[Rachel Bloom]

What was the word?

[Kalila]

Wait, what? Like, I. Mi cuesta. Like, it doesn't. It doesn't cost me much to be sensitive to this thing that really affects her. And so I'm just starting to be aware of that. That it, like, really controls her interactions, her thoughts, her decisions to do something or not do something because she doesn't want to be rejected. I mean, it's.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yes.

[Kalila]

It's wild.

[Jenna]

I have a question for you.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jenna]

Based on that, do you hyper focus on, like, everything? Like, a person is, like, saying, like, if. If, like, he or she is like. Like he just moved something in his mouth or like, he.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, I don't have it. That. I don't have it. That's not how it manifests in me. I. I'm not. I'm not luckily. And I think some people have that. I'm not going into a conversation looking for a way for someone to hate me. Like, looking for all the way someone might hate me. It's that when. And I've gotten better at this. But when there is, and it's interesting, it doesn't happen as much with, like, writing constructive criticism. Cause that's not me. That's what's on the page. I mean, it's why getting criticized as a. It's why getting writing criticism is actually so much easier than acting criticism. Because acting criticism, especially online, is who you are, right? Writing criticism is like, well, that's not me. That's what's on the. You can tell yourself, like, well, that's just like, structurally what's on the page. No, it's that if, you know, if someone's like, hey, you did something that really hurt me, or I mean, I don't, like, look, becoming a semi public figure and changing the way I needed to deal with things online and learning that the hard way of like, oh, no, I can't. I can't check things in the way that I did when I was just doing Internet videos and reading comments to see are people digging this video. I can't do that anymore. So it's just being really, really hypersensitive to criticism. And also the idea that I might have hurt someone because there is still a fundamental thing that I'm dealing with, which is like, I wouldn't say it's imposter syndrome as much as, like, am I a good. Am I a good person? Am I a bad person? Am I a fraud? Like, it. It's a catastrophe. It's a catastrophic place that is not rooted in reality. That is just like, what I'm working on. I literally have a workbook that's called, like, the Self compassion workbook that I've been working from. And something that like, really, there was this exercise. I'm not doing it as frequently as I should, but I. I'm doing it before bed sometimes. And there was an exercise where it was. It's like, okay, think about a person in your life that you have uncomplicated feelings towards who you're just like, they're great. What would you say about them? And it's like, I wish them all the happiness in the world. Right? And I thought about. I actually thought about my friend Betsy. If she's watching this.

[Kalila]

Aw.

[Rachel Bloom]

She was the first person that came to mind. I was like, I wish Betsy just happiness and good. And it's like, okay, now do that for yourself. Have that same uncomplicated, like, love and positivity for yourself. And it's so hard.

[Kalila]

Whoa.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's such a good exercise.

[Rachel Bloom]

It was really weird because there's a self. There's a self hatred that I have and a self flagellation caused by many things in my life experiences in addition to like, whatever my brain chemistry is that I am, like, actively still working through. And it's my main. Really my main journey as a. As a person. And it's fucking hard.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Yeah. I relate to a lot of that. And I feel like, is that workbook on Amazon?

[Kalila]

Yeah, it's only on Reddit.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'll text it to you. It's great.

[Esther Povitsky]

Okay. Jules, how are. How. What's coming up for you?

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, I'm sorry, Jules. I feel like I'm.

[Jenna]

Yeah, no, I like hearing everything because I feel like I need also all the help that you get.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, we're also all bad.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's the thing is all of this stuff with, like, ADHD and being sensitive to rejection and like, loving yourself, it's a thing all of us have. Like, self compassion is hard for everyone. No one likes rejection. I mean, there are some people who I guess have a personality type where they. They thrive on it a little bit. Or like, when someone doesn't like them, they're amused by it. That. That is like a personality type, like.

[Esther Povitsky]

In a romantic comedy, a little like.

[Rachel Bloom]

A circus that they're like, I. I know some people who, like, if someone insults them, they'll be like, you're an idiot. I don't have that muscle, and I think that's a minority of the population. But this is stuff we can all, I think, mostly relate to. It's just how much does it affect our lives, our emotional state?

[Kalila]

For me, if I feel like I'm not being what I've created in my head since I was a kid as a good person, that to me is catastrophic.

[Rachel Bloom]

Me too.

[Kalila]

Like, if someone. Again, I want people to tell me, like, hey, I didn't really like the way that you acted in this situation. I don't. But it's the only thing that makes me go from zero to a hundred of like, fight or flight. Run. This is horrible. Like, you know how I've always been really, like, morally.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

And like, I'm the. I want to be everyone's greatest friend, and I want to, like, identify with that, which is a lot of my ego, which I've been working on letting go of, like, being the best friend to everyone.

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, you can hold onto that.

[Kalila]

Ooh, that's so funny.

[Esther Povitsky]

No need to let go of that.

[Kalila]

But you know how, like, even I've been setting boundaries with you, like, the last couple of months because I feel.

[Esther Povitsky]

And how good am I with boundaries?

[Kalila]

So good.

[Esther Povitsky]

I'm amazing with boundaries.

[Kalila]

She really is. I feel like you're really great. Esther is so great when she just knows what the person wants. Like, if they're being direct with her. I feel like you're very responsive. I think when it gets complicated with anyone, I think too. But when you don't know, it's like, okay, Then I'm not gonna act the way you want me to act. Or I can't.

[Esther Povitsky]

It's hard.

[Kalila]

I can't be better for you because I don't know what you want versus when I'm just like, hey, so when I come over, I'm not doing that thing. And I need to leave in two hours because I need to do stuff for myself. She's like, great, okay. Also because you're terrified I won't come back.

[Jenna]

But.

[Esther Povitsky]

And you're terrified I won't invite you back, so we.

[Kalila]

Exactly.

[Esther Povitsky]

But I do have, like, Kalila, my regular co host, or, you know, Trash Tuesday slug.

[Rachel Bloom]

You're great.

[Esther Povitsky]

You guys are great.

[Kalila]

She's Kalila's niece.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Isn't that cool?

[Kalila]

Jules is beloved. We love her so much. I've known Jules since she was 16.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. Jules, are you a comedian? Like, what's your area?

[Esther Povitsky]

She's having finals week right now. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Are you in school?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Kalila]

She hasn't slept in, like, 30. Oh, my God.

[Rachel Bloom]

Where are you in school?

[Jenna]

I'm. I go to CSUN Northridge.

[Rachel Bloom]

And what's your, what's your focus?

[Jenna]

Biology.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenna]

But I'm dying right now because it's so hard.

[Rachel Bloom]

Phospholipid bilayer. That's, like, the one term I remember from bio that when I got it, finally, I was like, I get what a phospholipid bilayer is. I don't remember what it is anymore, but I remember that term.

[Kalila]

You get straight A's too, right?

[Jenna]

Well, I don't know right now because I'm, I'm having a hard time with microbiome and atikalila.

[Kalila]

Ace that class, like, microcellular biology, like, mcb.

[Jenna]

I'm. Yeah, I'm dying and I haven't slept and. Yeah, I'm so sorry, but it's okay. That's what I do.

[Rachel Bloom]

What are you gonna, what do you. What's, what are you thinking for the future?

[Jenna]

I, I, I don't really stress you. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just trying to graduate.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. Hey.

[Jenna]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Great.

[Kalila]

That's it for.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's awesome.

[Jenna]

Yeah.

[Esther Povitsky]

Do you. Because you asked that question about, like, fixating if someone. I want to know more about that. Like, if someone touches their face. Like, what, what were you getting to?

[Jenna]

Well, because, like, people pleasing or, like, you're so focused on.

[Kalila]

You're a people pleaser.

[Jenna]

Yeah, I am. I think I'm, like, the worst because, like, even with a switch of tone, like, I can detect it. And then I overthink it, like, oh, my God, are they mad? Or like, even when they like just squint, they. Or like they just say. They just move, like in certain ways and I detect it and I think, oh, they don't like me.

[Kalila]

Well, I'm very light sensitive sometimes. You know, I'm always going to be squinting.

[Jenna]

Yeah. But yeah, I just hyper fixate on like their movement, their facial expression, their tone. That's me. And then I just being hyper vigilant. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's also a female thing. Like.

[Kalila]

So true.

[Rachel Bloom]

And I. And I don't know if it's biological. It's probably societal. The pressure to come off as nice and pleasant and okay and not hostile and prickly is not something just to generalize it. It's not something men seem to think about as much.

[Kalila]

You know, what makes me want to rage is when men are like, yeah, why are women so stressed all the.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, but it's cause they're not. It's cause. And again, this is such a generalization. But like, it's cause generally a lot of times, like, they're not. And so there's a part of that that they're just not. It's just a fun. There's also societal things are different. Am I right?

[Kalila]

It's a societal thing that they're not stressed. They get to be not stressed. It's like a privilege that they don't have to think about all the things that women have to think about or appear as such, like having everything together. Okay, pleasant.

[Esther Povitsky]

Wait, but you have all the male hormones, so where do you stand?

[Kalila]

I'm fine. I'm never stressed. No, I'm just kidding. Well, but my body recognizes that it's like wrong that it's like off because my progesterone is so low as well. My testosterone is so high. So I feel.

[Esther Povitsky]

Is that what makes you a good handyman?

[Kalila]

Yes, that's why my hands are so big.

[Rachel Bloom]

Well, and men also have progesterone and estrogen in their body. Like, we all have the same hormones. It's just all about like, what are the balances? Right. Yeah, I think. Yeah.

[Kalila]

But I think that men typically go the, like the rise and the fall is usually just testosterone. And so I feel like they don't Reddit.

[Esther Povitsky]

I mean, can you please tell us from the perspective of a man.

[Kalila]

Yeah, so from the perspective of a high testosterone female. Female and low. My estrogen probably doesn't even exist anymore either. But I feel. So progesterone, like, regulates your mood, your sleep Depression, your energy, the way that you think about things. So kind of what I feel like most of the time is how you feel the week before your period.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's not okay. Because the luteal phase is like, I was just looking at my Stardust app and seeing that I'll be in my luteal phase over the holidays. I'm like, oh, maybe I should cancel my trip home because nobody's gonna enjoy this. It's gonna be bad.

[Rachel Bloom]

So I've started taking my birth control with no placebo pill.

[Jenna]

Oh.

[Rachel Bloom]

Which is safe to do if you're on birth control. So I'm so my, like, this period that I had, I think was partially from, like, my schedule being all fucked up. But I don't have a period once a month now, so I'm doing. I'm having PMS less.

[Kalila]

Oh, wow. So you'll like, schedule when you have your period.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, I don't schedule it at all. You don't actually need to. I've been told it's okay to take the pills continuously. You don't need a placebo. You don't need the placebo pill to have your period.

[Esther Povitsky]

I love being an adult.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's so funny because, like, in my daughter's preschool class, the moms will have these mom hangs. And I feel like we always end up talking about this stuff. Childbirth, you know, inadequacy as moms. And then the dads occasionally do a hang. And what I've heard dad hang was, it's like, yeah, we. We just talked about the new Dune.

[Esther Povitsky]

Well, that's all men. They don't. They don't know anything about their best friends. Right. They don't know, like, their best friends could be going through a divorce. They. They have no idea. But it's like women, we spill all the tea.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yes. Male friendships are more of a, like, I think activity or hobby based. Like, it's like outing sports. It's like, that's. That's my friend from my basketball league. Or that's my. I mean, this is so. This is so reductive of men. But I think that generally male friendships thrive on.

[Esther Povitsky]

Generalize about.

[Rachel Bloom]

I know I'm kind of quoting myself, but I think that that's the sense I have is that male friendships tend to be, at least when they start a little bit more like, let's not get into deep shit and that. Like, to get into the deep shit, you have to be like, really, really, really close friends. But I feel like a lot of women I know will just meeting one, they'll be like, go straight to the vestige. They'll just be like, I worry about how my pussy smells. Can you smell it for me? And almost like, I would love to. And then it's like, yeah. And that's just like a general meeting you take with an executive. I feel like we had some like general meetings with certain executives where it's.

[Esther Povitsky]

Like, is this spot on my nipple normal?

[Rachel Bloom]

It's like, oh my God, can you feel this?

[Esther Povitsky]

Thank you.

[Kalila]

But that's also what I love about being a woman and what I feel bad for about being a lot of men. Because I feel like it's not that men. Yeah, it's not that men don't have the depth. It's not that they don't have the emotions. I think the way that society, the only one way that society has done men wrong is that they feel like they constantly cannot emote and it runs deep that they have to have it all together. That they don't really want to get into how they're feeling with their friends because it doesn't have to be that serious. And then someone thinks that there's something wrong with you and then you're being weak.

[Esther Povitsky]

I hate that message. And I do wish that men would open up and consider that like sharing and you know, being more open about their feelings and their vulnerabilities. Like I guarantee if you try that it, there's a really good chance it will be met with love and reception and like because you're human. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

I, I actually think men are just as, if not more emotional than women.

[Kalila]

Which is where being macho comes from. It's like this fake cover up of it.

[Rachel Bloom]

My husband said it really well. We were at a party and we watched. There is an energy to little boys that I find like quite. Oh, these little boys have so much. You can feel the testosterone. You can feel there's an energy, there's a slight anger there. And I mean watching an 8 year old boy and a pinata, like the look in a little boy's eyes before he's about to hit pinata. My husband has said that's the face of war. That is war. That is something is going on and that's an emotion. And I think that men almost swing wildly. Like there's no in between. That men are either super like chill and then when they're emotional they either lash out in anger or they shut the fuck down. And we haven't given men a template for how to deal with their emotions. Like some of the, I mean, I'm not really up on, like, the incelli red pill stuff, but some of that thing of, like, we have underserved men in general as a society to be like, yeah, yeah, you're fine. Like, you guys are fine. You're the cause of all the problems. So, like, shut the fuck up. That does nothing in helping men how to deal with these often, like, very, very intense emotional swings.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

That they have.

[Kalila]

Which in turn does nothing to help help the women on the planet deal with their emotions and have space to. To be and to be held.

[Esther Povitsky]

You know, I go to a weekly women's support group, like a group therapy type thing. And I had a guy friend and I. And I was like, God, he would benefit so much from this. And I'm like, it's not. There's not. They don't have that at the place I go at least. I'm like, God, I wish that existed. Because you guys, like, we're all right. Like, men do need the support and the connection. And it is hard even for us sometimes. Like, I know we're joking, like, show me your pussy, whatever. But it can be hard. It can be intimidating to go there deep with a friend. And so that's why my support group is really helpful. And I just wish that, I don't know, men had that and at least hear the message from us that let.

[Kalila]

It out and that we love you when you're being gentle and having your emotions and feeling however you're feeling and it's not weak. Which one of my best friends told me last week. A heterocis male who was raised somewhere else where the community is very, like, macho. And I was like, wait. He was crying about a very existential, serious life thing, which it's okay even if he's crying about a commercial. And he was like, I'm sorry that you have to see me like this. And I was like, what? See you like what?

[Rachel Bloom]

There's so much shame over emotion that I think women, in different ways don't. I think we have shame over seeming difficult, but we don't necessarily have shame over, like, being sad and emo in the same ways.

[Kalila]

And like, I've never.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, I love it when my husband cries. I think it is so open and human and beautiful. And I happen to have a very emotionally available and open husband. And we talk about this stuff a lot. Like, the difference, you know, between the difference between men and women. But from what I've observed, even with. Now that I'm spending a lot more time around little kids, little boys are In a lot of ways, just as, if not more emotional. And it's like, especially, like, clingy to their moms than little girls. Also, little boys develop slower, and I feel like there's very little compassion for that. And it's why there's this term red shirting, where some people hold back boys and let them do one more year of preschool because they thrive a lot better when they're maybe older in their class as opposed to younger, because girls just literally develop quicker. Like, their brains develop quicker. And there's just. I think if I had a boy, you almost have to be more sensitive as a parent to what they're going to what they're going through. I think. I mean, I think little boys are really interesting and sweet.

[Kalila]

It's true. And it's in the same way that as a parent, you also have to be more aggressive in letting your girls know that, like, they can do anything they want, they can take anything they want. In the same way that, like, little boys know and think inherently that, like, everything is for them. It's like the way that society is set up really is a detriment to both.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's really like, if you're raising a boy, you need to raise him with more girl identified, like, emotional communication. And if you're raising a girl, you need to bring in some more boy identified emotional communication of, like, you know, take your space. And girls are funny too.

[Esther Povitsky]

That's why I dressed my daughter in blue and everyone and gave her a boy's name. I think we're out of time, but this has, like, been so much fun. Rachel, you belong on our show. Come back anytime soon.

[Rachel Bloom]

This is wonderful. I feel very therapized right now.

[Esther Povitsky]

Oh, my God, me too.

[Kalila]

That. That's great. Because our therapist is on maternity and we're struggling.

[Rachel Bloom]

You have the same therapist?

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's so funny.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah, she.

[Kalila]

She needs to come. Want to be Esther's therapist anymore, so I gave her mine.

[Esther Povitsky]

Rachel, everyone will check out Death. Let me do my special on Netflix. Nominated for a Critics Choice Award. No big deal. And anything else that we should be.

[Rachel Bloom]

Looking out for, look out for yourselves.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yes.

[Kalila]

Okay, Queen.

[Esther Povitsky]

Thank you, Rachel Show. And also watch all of Crazy Ex Girlfriend on Netflix if you haven't yet.

[Rachel Bloom]

Featuring Esther.

[Esther Povitsky]

Yeah. Watch your girls and we'll see you next week with a brand new episode.

[Rachel Bloom]

Stay with me.