*PREVIEW* Lord Item feat. Gareth Dennis

Summary

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TRASHFUTURE Episode Summary

Episode: PREVIEW Lord Item feat. Gareth Dennis
Date: March 21, 2026
Theme: The Death of the Metaverse—How Hype, Consultancy, and Corporate Fantasy Outran Reality

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the spectacular collapse of "Horizon Worlds," Facebook's (now Meta’s) flagship Metaverse project, and unpacks the broader implosion of the Metaverse concept. The hosts, joined by guest Gareth Dennis, blend sarcasm, sharp critique, and gleeful skepticism as they dissect astronomical economic predictions, consultant reports, and the sheer hubris behind the virtual future that never materialized. The panel questions why anyone believed in the Metaverse, skewering both tech optimists and their enablers in finance and consulting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The End of Horizon Worlds and Big Metaverse Claims

• Meta’s Horizon Worlds, once billed as the central Metaverse platform (the "Facebook of the Metaverse"), is being shut down for public users as of April 2026.
• The hosts highlight how the concept was to unify various virtual spaces and dominate as Facebook did with social media—but ultimately failed.

"Mark Zuckerberg only knows how to do one thing: build the first thing and force everyone to use your shitty product and then just deprecate it over time."
— Speaker A, [00:05]

2. Absurd Economic Predictions From Financial Giants

• Examples of over-the-top forecasts:
  • Goldman Sachs: $8 trillion Metaverse economy by 2040
  • Citibank: $13 trillion and 5 billion users (no date)
  • JP Morgan: $1 trillion annual revenue, with a real-life Metaverse branch that peaked at 38 users
• The hosts compare these numbers to entire national economies for irony.

"We're saying 66% of China's GDP. We're saying about 1 Japan... 2/3 of the European Union."
— Speaker C, [01:07]

• The panel laughs at how business and consulting firms, like McKinsey, predicted $5 trillion by 2025—a moment that has come and gone with no resulting Metaverse boom.

3. Consultancy Groupthink and Tech Fads

• The group skewers reports by McKinsey and others for "false precision"—throwing out big, oddly specific but unfounded numbers.

"All of these numbers are false precision. There are numbers that aren't big and round to make you feel like they're not estimates."
— Speaker A, [06:00]

• They recall McKinsey’s consumer survey that underpinned these numbers, mock the idea of virtual learning overtaking universities, and note the inherent absurdity of 95% of business leaders (in surveys) expecting positive Metaverse impacts soon.
• The group points out that the only actual "Metaverse" application with real traction is gaming for children (e.g., Roblox), rather than any serious business use.

4. Failed Aesthetics, User Experience, and the "Emperor Has No Clothes" Moment

• The Metaverse was described as aesthetically and functionally less advanced than games from the 1990s. The panel mocks the idea of people wanting to have business meetings or social events in primitive, uncanny virtual spaces.

"When I saw that fucked up smooth face, weird rendition of Mark Zuckerberg with like the Eiffel Tower and I guess the Sagrado Familia in the background, I was like, they think people are going to take their meetings on this?"
— Speaker C, [05:12]

• The "legless avatars" in Horizon Worlds become a punchline, linking to the famous "Legs" song from ZZ Top and poking fun at how children’s games like Roblox make more cultural sense than the Metaverse ever did for adults.

5. Reflecting on Hype Cycles and the Necessity of Critical Skepticism

• The team expresses pride in being "haters" who called the collapse from the beginning, stressing the value of critical thinking toward tech fads.

"I tried to flesh out an idea that it's actually good to be a hater so long as one is an ecumenical hater... like the things you like and be able to explain why, hate things you hate and be able to explain why, and keep an open mind, but also keep an open mind towards hating."
— Speaker C, [05:01]

• They single out credulous tech columnists—particularly Derek Thompson—for parroting unfounded optimism.

"Derek, you're a fucking mark. You're an absolute moron. And no one, you should be discredited by that alone."
— Speaker A, [07:35]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On corporate Metaverse branches:

  "J.P Morgan...opened a Metaverse branch that saw, I believe, 38 people in it at its maximum occupancy."
  — Speaker A, [03:08]

• On doomed consultancy optimism:

  "The majority of business leaders, 95%, expected the metaverse to have a positive impact in their respective industries within the next five to 10 years."
  — Speaker A, [06:56]

• On what the Metaverse actually delivered:

  "It was just like, okay, cool, you get to live in Habbo Hotel and you get to do your meetings there. You get to be in, I don't know, fucking like Club Penguin. But it's 3D, like, but bad 3D."
  — Speaker C, [07:51]

• On children understanding "virtual worlds" better than adults:

  "No one is writing songs about the metaverse, if anything, they're writing songs about the opposite of the metaverse because the ZZ Top already had a smash hit with the song Legs."
  — Speaker C, [09:35]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:50 Horizon Worlds backstory, the collapse, and wild economic projections
• 02:06–03:38 Comparing Metaverse market predictions to real-world economies, highlighting industry delusion
• 04:09–05:40 Deep dive on McKinsey’s ludicrous numbers and survey methodology
• 07:02–08:27 Skepticism, sunk costs, and self-congratulation on being skeptics
• 09:06–09:52 Final critiques; Roblox as the only real virtual world kids care about

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Takeaways

• The Metaverse hype was built on broad, uncritical techno-optimism, impossibly huge numbers supplied by consultants, and corporate gamesmanship—all divorced from what people actually want.
• The one area where "virtual worlds" thrive is child-centric gaming, not the billion-dollar business platforms envisioned by their creators.
• Questioning consensus and staying "ecumenically" skeptical is vital—especially when industry, consulting, and media collude in fantasy.

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For Listeners:

If you want a simultaneously hilarious and withering look at how tech boondoggles unfold—and why so many apparently intelligent people buy in—this episode's for you.

Transcript

[A]

The Horizon Worlds was supposed to be the main Metaverse platform and was supposed to relate to the Metaverse as Facebook relates to social media. The Metaverse was supposed to be all of these virtual spaces where you can go and interact and stuff. It's just Horizon Worlds was like. Because Mark Zuckerberg only knows how to do one thing, which is build the first thing and force everyone to use your shitty product and then just deprecate it over time.

[B]

So does that mean that they're so that if that's gone, does that mean they're, like, one or two corporate instances still running of, like, with, like, the one guy, the one IT guy who's, like, been forced to make it work and none of the people are actually using it? Is that all that's left in the Metaverse? Now?

[A]

The publicly facing Horizon Worlds, which is what that was supposed to be, is being shut down as of April. Now, we know that they've ramped down their spending. We knew this was coming, but now that they've actually announced it, I actually. I don't even have anything to talk about about that. I want to read you some facts and figures. Okay.

[C]

All right. I'm excited.

[A]

In 2023, Goldman Sachs estimated the metaverse economy could hit $8 trillion. Okay. By 2040. So.

[C]

So we're saying. We're saying 66% of China's GDP. We're saying about 1 Japan, 55% of America's GDP, 1 Japan, 2/3 of the European Union.

[B]

This is the first bullet point as well.

[C]

So this is.

[B]

This is the most sane of the bullet points you've chosen to put down, riley.

[A]

They said 2043. It would take until 2043 to get to that level. Okay. Citibank predicted 13 trillion. They didn't give a date. And 5 billion users.

[B]

5 billion users.

[A]

Most people in the world are mostly in the Metaverse, rather than, like, walking around. There are no ones walking around, in fact. Yeah.

[B]

No one. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, no one anywhere.

[C]

So the Metaverse, the kind of Facebook Second Life VR headset looks like a Sega Saturn game. It's going to be worth about 105 times the GDP of Croatia by 2043.

[A]

Sort of. Sort of.

[C]

But not anymore because it doesn't exist. So Croatia, all 103 croatias are safe.

[A]

Who would win 103 croatias or one mobile game? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

God, there's another one. There's more on the list then. So you're.

[A]

Imagine the Croatia. Imagine the football squad of 103 Croatias. My God. No. So. But I think it's like what they're shutting down is the thing that was supposed to be the anchor of all of the different Metaverse platforms, like Roblox is also the Metaverse, according to that logic. That didn't play out right because people aren't jumping from Horizon worlds to the Metaverse. They're not using their Horizon worlds account to, like, create your Roblox account and stuff. So it's like the main pill. The Metaverse was supposed to be a concept, like social media is a concept. It's just the thing that was supposed to be. The Facebook of the Metaverse is dead. So JP Morgan predicted a trillion dollars in annual revenues pretty much right away.

[B]

Annual revenue.

[A]

Annual, yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And opened a Metaverse branch that saw, I believe, 38 people in it at its maximum occupancy.

[B]

This is what I was thinking. I remember you guys talking about the J.P. morgan metaverse thing.

[C]

This is going to be immediately worth a trillion dollars, and it's got less usage than, like, your average web radio station. In the 2000s,

[A]

the European Commission was much more reasonable. They predicted 800 billion euros in global, quote, virtual world growth by 2030. Sure, why not? And about 850,000 new European jobs by 2025.

[B]

So by 2025 last year.

[A]

Yeah, they did. They did miss that one. I don't think they're likely to get that one.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I don't. We haven't really noticed an upswing on the continent of jobs situated in Ecco the Dolphin. So I think they may have missed this target.

[A]

I was promised that I get to live in Shenmue, and I am. So. Here's my favorite one, though. It's by MacKenzie, the absolute, the brain legion. MacKenzie, the smartest people in the entire world.

[B]

The most consulting of the consultants.

[A]

Yeah, the consultingest people to ever live. Now, they were more conservative than many of the other estimators. They said only 5 trillion. But crucially, by 2025.

[C]

So last year.

[A]

Last year.

[C]

Last year.

[A]

Last year, 5 trillions.

[C]

5 trillion.

[A]

All right. Yeah. Last year. Better part of a Japan.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Very nice.

[C]

I didn't notice this happen, unfortunately. I guess I. The problem is, is that you only got to use it if you had a Sega Genesis and a Sega CD and a 32X. Otherwise you wouldn't get on the Metaverse. That's. But everybody else bought them, and that's why all these Metaverse jobs exist.

[A]

I just have a fond wish that somebody who sucks a bit less than Dave Chappelle would remake the player. Haters ball sketch, because that's how I feel right now.

[C]

I tried to flesh out an idea that it's actually good to be a hater so long as one is an ecumenical hater. And I think the thing about, in the sense that like, like the things you like and be able to explain why, hate things you hate and be able to explain why and keep an open mind, but also keep an open mind towards hating. And when I saw that fucked up smooth face, weird rendition of Mark Zuckerberg with like, the Eiffel Tower and I guess the Sagrado Familia in the background, I was like, they think people are going to take their meetings on this. Like, they think, they think everyone's like, oh, God, I love zoom so much. What if I did 3D zoom with a headset? So it could look like this? So it could look like, I don't know, like when they premiered, you know, Mario 64 at CES in 1995. Like, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So. But before we move on, I. I actually have an excerpt from this, from the executive summary of McKinsey's report that said five trillies by 2025. Oh, it's great. Okay. They said so they surveyed 3,400 consumers and executives, their thoughts on Metaverse's adoption potential, blah, blah, blah. McKinsey predicted e commerce to be the largest contributor between 2 and 2.6 trillion. Also, like, all of these numbers are false precision. There are numbers that aren't big and round to make you feel like they're not estimates.

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The 43 billion of growth number that always pops up whenever talking about anything tech.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So virtual learning was going to be 180 to 270 billion. So there was one, one columnist, one tech columnist whose name escapes me right now, said, maybe in the Met in the future, physical universities will be the thing that supplements Metaverse education. Oh, my. Advertising up to 200 billion. Gaming, 125 billion. Weirdly, gaming is the only place where anyone's vaguely doing anything in virtual reality at all. Not even like with the headset, but like something like Roblox, for example. That's the closest thing you have to an actual functional version of this. And it's for fucking children. The majority of business leaders, 95%, expected the metaverse to have a positive impact in their respective industries within the next five to 10 years. Where have I seen a similar number. Where have I seen a similar number about CEOs hugely overconfident about the new faddish thing didn't they say they were going to spend.

[C]

Facebook was going to invest like $78 billion into this.

[A]

82 billion. They did. That's how much they lost. They lost all of it. Yeah.

[B]

How do you spend that much money on what?

[A]

I want to have one more quote here before we talk about transport. This is, and this is like I have a little crown that says hater. And I'm putting it on my head because I remember when you say something that when you praise something stupid, I remember it. If I don't like you. Derek Abundance Thompson, reviewing a book by a VC called Something like How the Metaverse Will Change Everything, said, this is a definitive statement about an emerging phenomenon that could shape the digital world, the global economy, and the very experience of human consciousness. Derek, you're a fucking mark. You're an absolute moron. And no one, you should be discredited by that alone.

[C]

The thing about it was, nothing was novel about it. It was just like, okay, cool, you get to live in Habbo Hotel and you get to do your meetings there. You get to be in, I don't know, fucking like Club Penguin. But it's 3D like, but bad 3D. Like, no one was actually gonna buy, no one was gonna be the primary user for this. Wasn't gonna be wearing a headset. People were gonna be using it on the screens. And like, it just looked. The idea that you could just be like, oh, wow, this is a step. I mean, at least with the iPad, people were like, well, I mean, it is a big touchscreen. That is something kind of new. This had all been done before in video games. And then like, by the time it came out, the video game tech had advanced that. It looked chintzy and weird.

[B]

Played a Wii a long time ago.

[C]

It looks like it looked like a video game when it's like designed by the US army to convince people to enlist or whatever. It's like America's Army. And the gameplay fucking sucks.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and it's like it always,

[D]

it always sort of gave off to me like, you know, in the Apprentice, when they have to do like these and they have to do any type of creative task and none of them are particularly creative. And so they end up doing a really half assed job that is designed to just sort of be really comedic. And the Metaverse, the whole aesthetic of it reminded me of a failed apprentice project. Going to the boardroom and Alan Sugar's just like, what happened to the legs? What happened to the legs? This is a disgrace. What happened to the Legs.

[C]

Because years ago when we lived in the uk, we watched a friend's kid for the night while his parents were at an event. And he was seven and he was really into Roblox and I'd never seen Roblox before and I just watched him, played Roblox with him and such, and I learned all about Roblox songs. And when the new Roblox level comes out, there's a bunch of professional songwriters who write songs about the. And they're quite simple musically, but they're very slickly produced, sort of about whatever the level in this villain is. Because kids will buy these songs and it's like, because it's for kids, so it makes sense. It's like this is a game intended. This is the target audience. A seven year old. It's like, whereas no one is writing songs about the metaverse, if anything, they're writing songs about the opposite of the metaverse because the ZZ Top already had a smash hit with the song Legs. But unfortunately, like, that kind of goes against the whole ethos.

[A]

Well, you know what, Nate? If you're curious why Derek Thompson thought that this was going to be the case, despite all of the obvious stuff that you and Hussein both pointed out, maybe someone should ask him. Why'd you think that? Why didn't you think it anymore? Why'd you think it at the time?