Podcast Summary: Trauma Rewired

Episode: Grief and Joy Together, The Nervous System Knows Why
Hosts: Jennifer Wallace & Elisabeth Kristof
Date: September 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Trauma Rewired explores the concept of ambivalence—the experience of holding multiple, often opposing, emotions at the same time. Through the lens of affective neuroscience and neurosomatics, hosts Elisabeth Kristof and Jennifer Wallace unpack the neurobiology behind emotional duality, especially in contexts of trauma recovery, identity transitions, and healing. They stress that feeling grief and joy—or pain and gratitude—simultaneously is not a sign of dysfunction or failure, but a profound and necessary part of the healing journey.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Ambivalence and Its Importance

• Ambivalence is described as "the internal experience of holding opposing truths or desires at the same time" (02:35).
• It's not indecision or self-sabotage, but a neurobiological phenomenon—a reflection of how the nervous system holds complexity.
• Ambivalence often emerges at transformational thresholds, such as leaving a toxic relationship or redefining one’s identity.

2. Emotional Duality: Both Grief and Joy

• Leaving a toxic relationship, for example, “is not just gonna be relief. …but there will also be grief and there will also be a loss of something. And all of those things are existing.” (00:00, A)
• Emotional complexity is natural and necessary: “When you hold two opposing truths or desires at once…it’s your brain and body responding with competing signals about how to protect you.” (08:47, B)

3. Neurosomatics & Emotional Construction

• Emotions are constructed in the brain—not fixed responses, but “reflections of how our predictive brains are constructing meaning from our past experiences.” (07:21, A)
• Multiple brain regions interact—the insular cortex (mapping internal sensations), amygdala (tagging danger), anterior cingulate (processing conflict), and prefrontal cortex (regulating and narrating).

[Key Quote]

“Our brain is a…pattern recognition and prediction [system]…so sometimes when things are in that messy place of many different conflicting emotions, that can raise the threat level in our nervous system…” (09:49, A)

4. The Threat Response & Overwhelm

• Ambivalence can activate both the sympathetic stress response (fight/flight) and the parasympathetic shutdown (freeze/numbness) at once, leading to feelings of being stuck or disconnected (11:55, B).
• “It’s like the body is preparing to act and to retreat at the same time. And that’s why ambivalence often feels like being stuck or foggy.” (11:55, B)

5. Emotional Neglect, Limited Vocabulary, and Dissociation

• Many people “don’t have the patterned understanding knowing somatically...to parcel apart these emotions,” especially if they experienced emotional neglect growing up (12:49, A).
• Good/bad binaries diminish the full human experience: “To diminish one emotion is really to diminish all of them.” (14:18, B)
• Dissociation often arises as a way to avoid the confusion when emotional capacity is low.

6. Trauma, Attachment, and Self-Protection

• Attachment changes—setting boundaries with family, for instance—are especially ambivalent, blending relief and grief (24:00, A).
• “Change is scary for the brain. Change is very threatening. …That could create a whole dynamic experience of emotions as you try to navigate relationship from this new place.” (25:36, B)

[Quote from Ram Dass]

“If you think you’re so spiritually evolved, go spend a week with your family because they will pull you back so fast into an old dynamic.” (26:54, B)

7. Identity Transitions and Grief

• Identity shifts—such as career changes or embracing new diagnoses—often prompt dual emotions: excitement, possibility, AND loss, fear, grief (28:07–29:29).
• “There's loss when it comes to identity transitions. …Grief is the medicine to the loss that we experience. Even when we really want it, we have to really honor that.” (30:58, B)
• The path forward is “not lit because it’s a change of path for us.” (28:07, B)

8. Integrating Pain and Gratitude: Post-Traumatic Growth

• The hosts describe the “tender form of ambivalence” in feeling pain/grief for trauma, and gratitude for the growth and gifts that emerged (33:03–37:27).
• “Pain is valid. The gratitude is valid. And neither one of these…they don't cancel each other out.” (36:56, B)
• This integration is described as a sign of post-traumatic growth: holding multiple, somatic truths without collapsing into a single narrative.

9. Tools for Emotional Processing and Capacity Building

• Emotional processing varies: sometimes energetic (shaking, vocalizing), sometimes slow and gentle (floor work, stillness) (43:12–48:25).
• “You build the capacity to…not even hold more, but to, like, move more…we're not just holding it, we're...conduiting.” (49:05, A & B)
• Curiosity and continued practice strengthen the ability to tolerate, metabolize, and integrate emotional duality over time.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Ambivalence is not confusion or self sabotage, but wisdom and your nervous system's signal that both matter.” (00:34, B)
• “To diminish one emotion is really to diminish all of them.” (14:18, B)
• “Grief expands our heart in such a big, powerful way that allows for more connection.” (15:24, A)
• “Your nervous system does not need to resolve conflict immediately.” (16:06, B)
• “The pain is valid. The gratitude is valid. And neither one...they don’t cancel each other out.” (36:56, B)
• “Ambivalence is a bridge. It’s not a block; it’s a bridge into a different experience.” (49:37, B)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00–02:35: Introduction of ambivalence; grief and joy in leaving relationships
• 07:21–09:49: Neuroscience of emotion construction
• 12:49–15:24: Emotional neglect and the cost of suppressing emotions
• 24:00–26:54: Ambivalence in changing family/attachment patterns
• 28:07–29:29: Identity transitions and emotional complexity
• 33:03–37:27: Integrating pain and gratitude—post-traumatic growth in action
• 43:12–48:25: Personalized emotional processing practices
• 49:37–50:08: Ambivalence as a bridge to healing

Conclusion

The capacity to hold dual emotions—grief and joy, pain and gratitude—is a hallmark of healing and nervous system resilience. Rather than a problem to be solved, ambivalence is an invitation for growth, integration, and deeper embodiment. Over the episode, the hosts illustrate how understanding neuroscience, cultivating somatic awareness, and practicing emotional processing can help us metabolize the full human experience for sustainable, life-changing outcomes.

Suggested Next Episodes

• On Alexithymia, emotional vocabulary, and feeling “numb” (upcoming)
• Exploring complex emotions like jealousy and disgust

For more:

• rewiretrial.com for neurosomatic training and resources
• Subscribe for more on affective neuroscience and post-traumatic growth