Rolf Jacobson is back — psalm scholar, dean at Luther Seminary, co-author of the Homebrewed Christianity Guide to the Old Testament, and one of my favorite people to argue theology with over a long dinner. His new book God Meets Us in Our Suffering is unlike anything else he’s written, and unlike almost anything else I’ve read on the subject. It’s the story of three close friends — Rolf, his brother Carl, and their friend Mike Pancoast — who all had cancer, went through it together, and wrote about it side by side by side. Rolf had bone cancer at fifteen, lost both legs, and has been in a wheelchair for forty-five years. Carl was diagnosed with leukemia in 2022, declared cancer free in 2024, then died months later when meningitis attacked his brain after the bone marrow transplant compromised his immune system. Mike had lymphoma. What the three of them discovered in writing the book — and what Rolf and I spent this conversation unpacking — is that they didn’t know they were writing a book about the theology of the cross. They thought they were just telling their stories. They weren’t. This is one of the most honest, funny, theologically rich conversations I’ve had on this podcast, and it’s also one of the most personal. Rolf doesn’t let suffering become an abstraction. It never was one for him.

The origin story: Mike’s lymphoma diagnosis, Carl’s leukemia, and the cabin in Northern Minnesota where it all began
Why Rolf spent years refusing to write a cancer memoir — and what Carl said that finally changed his mind
The theology of the cross: why Luther said you can’t theologize about suffering from above, and why three friends going through cancer together became the perfect form for doing it from within
Why the cross says you cannot reason backwards from someone’s suffering to its cause — and how that conviction runs from Job through Paul through the woman who told Rolf’s mother it was her diet
Kate Bowler, cause-and-effect thinking, and why people can’t just say “that sucks”
Frank Tupper’s line: Luther gave him permission to say — and perhaps scream — that life is arbitrary, but God is not
Caregivers and the unacknowledged suffering of the people who go through it alongside
The dehumanization of medical care — and what it does to surgeons who cut people open for thirty years
Jerry, the Fisherman’s Inn, ribs at ten-year intervals, and Psalm 23’s table in the presence of the enemy
Laughter as theological category: Sarah’s belly laugh, God building a joke into the covenant, and Carl’s vasectomy joke on the radiation table
“Wearing a bike” — what a kid in a Target said to Rolf in 1989 and why it’s still his favorite description of himself
Hosanna as both shout of joy and cry for help — and how the Psalms hold more of our experience than we think
The God who will not be God without us — and what that means for how we show up to each other in suffering
Theology Beer Camp, the closing sermon that started as a toast, and why certain people were scandalized by Tripp drinking beer while preaching

Rolf Jacobson is Professor of Old Testament and Associate Dean at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota, a leading Psalm scholar, and co-author of the Homebrewed Christianity Guide to the Old Testament. His new book God Meets Us in Our Suffering, written with his brother Carl and friend Mike Pancoast, is a theology of the cross told from the inside — by three friends who actually had cancer.

Theology Beer Camp 2026 — The God-Podcalypse — hits Kansas City October 8–10, exactly one month before the election. Thirty scholars (Ilia Delio, Cornel West, Diana Butler Bass, Gary Dorrien, and a stack more), thirty God-pods, four post-apocalyptic stages, and the community everyone keeps telling us is the real reason they come back. Come find your people at Theology Beer Camp

Join our upcoming online class – THE FUTURE OF RELIGION

Tripp and Ilia Delio are teaming up for a brand-new four-week online class, The Future of Religion — for everyone who’s read the books, asked the questions, and realized the faith they inherited doesn’t quite fit anymore. Together they’ll trace religion’s evolutionary arc and map what’s emerging on the other side. Includes 4 video lectures, 4 live Q&As (replays available), and a community of fellow travelers. Donation-based, pay what you’re able (including $0). Live sessions start this month — register at ?...