Host 2 (3:14)

Yeah bww, are you in Beer Run? You need more True Crime Garage for your earballs. You need us to tickle your earballs? Check out our bonus show off the Record on Patreon and Apple Podcast subscription. And that's enough of the business.

Host 1 (3:31)

All right everybody gather round. Grab a, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. We have talked many times on this show about studying and discussing serial killers. There is a deep seated need in many of us, coded in our DNA, to not just possess the ability to recognize evil, but to attempt to understand the dark side of human nature. People have a natural morbid curiosity to understand the monster. What drives an individual to commit such extreme acts of violence? Halloween is the season when we let the monster out. In fact, society encourages the monsters to come out. And in some circles and at themed events, the monsters are celebrated. But not here, not on this show. While we will be celebrating together in the garage for Halloween, we know the only time to celebrate the monsters is when they are defeated and when good triumphs over evil. This is True Crime Garage.

Host 2 (5:18)

Foreign.

Host 1 (5:32)

So this week we thought we would hit the road and briefly visit some of the old serial killer haunts. So we will be talking about some horrific killers, some well known, others not so much. For our first stop, Captain, let's go to a place that we both were very recently hanging out with fellow podcasters and having some late night drinks with some of the beautiful listeners. We were in Denver, Colorado, home of the 2025 crime con. So our first serial killer is one of our lesser known subjects of the week. Vincent Groves, who reportedly was an excellent basketball player in high school, grew up in a middle class suburb of Denver. He is said to be a hulking athlete who helped to lead his high school basketball team to the state championship game in 1972. Then he went off to Coe College in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. But that didn't last too long as he dropped out 1974 and returned home to live with his grandmother. Now he had a successful job as an electrician. This was with the Gates Rubber Company. But apparently here Captain Groves had two hobbies. One, drinking a lot and two, hanging out with sex workers. It's believed that his many hours and days spent in the red light district led him to a criminal lifestyle. It's reported that Groves hung out in LoDo, short for Denver's Lower Downtown District. A young woman who Groves was associated with, her name is Jeanette Ben Becca. She goes missing and before too long her naked body is found in the woods in Jefferson County, Colorado. This is In June of 1978, a few months after the body is found. Vincent Groves moved in with 21 year old Norma Jean Halford. Norma Jean's car was found abandoned on a mountain road outside of Georgetown, Colorado on August 24, 1979. The 21 year old woman, Norma Jean has not been heard from nor seen since. And it's been 46 years now. Captain.

Host 2 (7:56)

Wow.

Host 1 (7:56)

So somebody he associated with turns up dead, they find her in the woods and then a woman that he is living with ends up missing. He's on somebody's radar at this time for what? It's difficult to say because he is out walking around, he's still working his job and he's still up to his funny business in the red light district and his criminal behaviors and actions. This is when Vincent Groves meets and then later marries a woman. Her name is Janet Hill. But not Janet's best moment, I am sure because the two are married for just five months when this goes down. This is from the October 20125280 magazine in a fantastic article by Robert Sanchez titled Chasing a Ghost. In part, it reads, by the summer of 1981, Vincent Groves and his wife Janet Hill were arguing frequently on August 14, 1981.

Host 2 (9:05)

You'd think the majority of the serial killers we talked about never found somebody to marry, but it seems like most of them do. So if you're single, just remember there's somebody out there for everybody.

Host 1 (9:17)

Yes, that's true, Captain. As we said by this point, Janet Hill and Vincent Groves, husband and wife, are arguing frequently on August 14, 1981. So the couple's fighting again. Nothing new here. This time they're fighting about a fishing trip. Vincent Groves planned to take a fishing trip with two friends and their 17 year old daughter. Her name is Tammy Sue Woodrum. Groves was taking a camper which he had attached to the bed of a pickup truck that was parked outside of the couple's home. Janet Hill, his wife, is pleading with him to allow her to go along on this trip. But Vincent Groves refused, refuses to bring her. He wants to go solo. So he grabs the keys to the truck and he says he'll be back. He takes off for this fishing trip. The next morning, Janet Hill is home sick from work when Vincent Groves appeared at their home. He says he had something to tell her, but he wouldn't do it there. He says that he needed to tell her this in the mountains.

Host 2 (10:29)

Yeah, no thanks.

Host 1 (10:31)

So she wants to know, did he have sex with the teenage girl? Was their marriage over? Janet Hill walked outside and waited for an explanation. Vincent Groves told Her to get in the pickup, which was still connected to the camper. She complies. Groves starts the engine and pulls off. They go off driving. He's silent. As they drove toward the foothills of the mountains, he finally made a turn into a meandering country road. This is near the town of Deckers. By then, it seemed to Janet Hill they'd been driving forever. Somewhere outside of the town, Groves finally began to speak. And then he started to cry. The fishing trip with the friends was in fact true, he told Hill. But first he decided to pick up the teenager Woodrum, and the two went to Boulder, Colorado to score some cocaine party. When they had gotten the stash, they drove toward Frazier. So this is about 90 miles away. They pulled off the road. One thing led to another. Grove said the girls started shooting up, but she couldn't handle it. Something had gone wrong. Groves is sobbing and crying, and he says that the 17 year old girl, she had overdosed and she was dead. Janet Hill says she wanted to jump out of the truck and run. The girl, where was the girl? She wanted to know. Vincent Groves looked at his wife and said the teenager's body was still in the camper. Now, at his wife's urging, Vincent Groves turned himself into the Lakewood Police Department and eventually was was actually convicted of second degree murder after his Tammy Sue Woodrum drug overdose story fell apart. So the way that this works here, Captain, he tells police the same story or very similar story that he told his wife. But the forensic evidence here showed that Tammy Sue Woodrum had been beaten, raped and strangled in court. At his trial, evidence proved that the victim was drug free, no drugs in her system when she was killed. So his story carries no weight at all. Plus all the injuries and the assaults that they could prove happened prior and during her death. Prosecutors showed marks on the teenager skin matched with that matched up with Vincent Groves's belt. So Groves is sentenced to 12 years in prison in the summer of 1982. Needless to say, Janet Hill divorced him. Groves, however, and we hear this so many times in these kinds of stories, Groves was a model prisoner. He taught classes.

Host 2 (13:41)

He took classes, couldn't behave in the real world, but can be a model person behind bars.

Host 1 (13:49)

Well, it's amazing when you're doing all kinds of hardcore drugs, what you may get into, and all of a sudden when those no longer are available to you, it's easy to step in line, no matter how evil you may be, when you're fueling the fire with substance abuse.

Host 2 (14:07)

Right.

Host 1 (14:08)

So because he's A model prisoner. Lucky for you, Colorado Groves received an early parole. So on February 13, 1987, Groves was released from prison. He had served just five years, just five years for raping and killing an innocent 17 year old girl. One that he knew. Right. He knew the parents nonetheless. Sorry that I understand it was a different time period, but that is just far too soft on violent crime for this garage guy. By September of 1988, okay, so he's been out what, a year and a half? Approximately, let's say a year and seven months. By this point, he's back on the radar of detectives and police once again. Now I hope you're seated here, Captain, because Vincent Groves, In September of 1988, one year, seven months after being released, he's a suspect in the murders of more than 20 Denver girls.

Host 2 (15:16)

Jesus Christ.

Host 1 (15:18)

Of whom had been strangled. The investigators found that Vincent Groves was familiar with, with many of these victims. Maybe they couldn't prove all but familiar and knew and had some association with some of these victims. And he was the last person seen with the victims in some of these cases.

Host 2 (15:41)

Right.

Host 1 (15:42)

Results from a DNA test linked Vincent Groves to the murder of 19 year old Juanita Levota, whose naked body was found in April of 1988 in a rural area east of Denver. And 25 year old Diane Manera, whose body was found in neighboring Adams county near Interstate 25. This is west of Denver. He was convicted of both and received a life sentence for one of the murders and a 20 year sentence for the other. If you're going to do the math on this, these new convictions compared to the old murder that he was in for, what, what do we think he'll get here? About 17 years. So thankfully that doesn't appear to be the case. At the trials, prosecutors provided evidence that Vincent Groves likely had involvement in eight other murders in the Denver area. So they did this using testimony from witnesses and other persons there and other evidence that placed Vincent as the last person seen with the victims before they were found dead or having disappeared. Poof. Gone forever. Now keep in mind, even though they presented that evidence and that testimonies at that trial, these weren't charging allegations. Right. There were no new charges that were actually brought against, against him. I think they were just kind of piling on for the sake of the jury and in hopes to really push to get a much needed conviction and get this guy locked up. You kind of dropped the ball the first time when you left, let him out too early. This is the type though, to me, I don't know I don't know if it matters when you let him out. If he falls back into the drugs, it appears that he's going to fall back into the sexual assaults and murder that. That we know he was not just capable of, but certainly guilty of on several, several counts.

Host 2 (17:48)

Yeah, it's almost like the drugs unleashed all his demons.

Host 1 (17:52)

A little bit of good news here in this story. In the early 1990s, Vincent Groves began to have pretty severe health problems. So for much of his adult life, when he's outside of prison walls, Groves was known to deal cocaine, crack, and other drugs. He was very much using everything that he was pushing. Now, here's a news flash for the six o' clock hour. You can't continually use hardcore drugs without it having hardcore effects on your body.

Host 2 (18:26)

Right.

Host 1 (18:26)

So Groves is diagnosed with hepatitis C and liver failure, from which he died on October 31, Halloween, 1996, inside of a prison hospital near the city of Denver, Colorado.

Host 2 (18:46)

And nobody cried.

Host 1 (18:47)

Well, you're right. I don't think anybody cried. But if there were people to cry, it might be the detectives. It might be some family members of other victims that were yet to be definitively linked to this serial killer. So when Vincent Groves was dying, he's in the process of dying. Detectives went to talk to him to see whether they would be able to solve the mystery of the fate of many other women associated with him or who they believe may have fallen victim to this monster.

Host 2 (19:25)

Right.

Host 1 (19:26)

So shortly before his death, Captain Groves is asked, like they're trying to pull a confession out of him, begging him, asked to confess to other murders, but he's such a nice guy that he refuses to do so. So he passes away. They suspected him of many more murders. Now, Vincent Groves DNA was not in a national database, but the Lakewood Police Department's cold case unit actually had Vincent groves DNA on fil trial. This back from their 1981 Tammy sue woodrum murder that they convicted him on. So they have his DNA on this murder that they know he did. He's convicted of it. He spent time in prison for it. Not enough, but he was there. That DNA helped posthumously link Vincent Groves to the slayings of emma Jennifer, age 25, Joyce Ramey, age 23, and Peggy Cuff, age 20, all who were found strangled dead in 1979. So these murders occurred before they got him for the Tammy Sue Woodrum murder. Also, they found witnesses. So now they have witness accounts tied to Vincent Groves. They're tying him to the 1988 killing of Pamela Montgomery, age 35. So they get multiple witnesses saying this is kind of a before and after here, and you don't want to be witnessed doing either one of these things. So Pamela was last seen by a credible witness with Vincent Groves before her time of death. Shortly before her time of death. And then later, there's another credible witness who saw her body dumped in an alley from a car that matched Vincent Groves's car. So the second witness never sees Groves or can't identify Groves, however. But she can't identify. Yeah, can't identify his vehicle. And look, you. You put those two things together there, and it puts him on a short list. Such a short list that it has to be him. I mean, I couldn't imagine who else would fall onto that list. And here's the thing. He's an easily distinguishable guy. So at 6 foot 5 inches tall and close to 230 pounds, the former athlete made for one big, powerful predator. Quote, he was in a position to use his size against most women, said Denver police cold case detective, my Silas Yearling. Yearling, who went on to tell the LA Times that even though Groves is dead, solving the cases has helped give his victims families closure. Quote, they're surprised that we're contacting them, and then they're grateful that the cases have been solved, end quote. Then we have Denver District Attorney Mitch Morrissey. He said of Vincent Groves, quote, in my 30 years experience, he is the worst homegrown serial murderer, end quote. Morrissey said investigators have circumstantial evidence linking Groves to up to 26 additional homicides. He has contacted authorities elsewhere in the state of Colorado to make sure Groves's DNA profile is available for further investigations. So while cold case detectives and the DAs were chasing a ghost, as the 5280 magazine put it, I like to think of it as the ghost of some of the victims led the investigators to where they needed to go to find the killer. One more thing from the Denver District Attorney, Mitch Morrissey. He said, quote, this man destroyed lives, he destroyed families. We figured that he was killing two women a month. He was maybe the most prolific serial killer in the state of Colorado. I believe will link him to more, end quote.

Host 2 (23:54)

Well, some of these serial killers are not intimidating by their physical stature, but when the fight is on, they have a rage and a sickness that's hard to compete. It's hard for the victims to fight off that kind of vicious attack. But here you have an individual that is intimidating physically and, like you said, athletic background. So with that athleticism, plus his rage and plus the sickness a lot of people felt fell victim to his evil.

Host 1 (24:36)

Ways and the fuel on the fire. And a lot of these cases is probably the drugs too, right? Because cocaine and crack are not the kind of drugs where you're like, oh, let's do some cocaine and then read a nice book under a tree and take a nap. No, this is. This is if. If you're a raging homicidal maniac like this guy, this is a recipe for. For, as we can see here, not just disaster, but. But pure, pure evil. And then not even the willingness to confess to 1, 2, or any murders on. On his deathbed. All right, Trick or treat here, Captain.

Host 2 (25:20)

Mm.

Host 1 (25:20)

Choose.

Host 2 (25:22)

I'll go with trick.

Host 1 (25:25)

Okay. A riddle.

Host 2 (25:28)

Mm.

Host 1 (25:29)

I go all around the world but never leave the corner. What am I?

Host 2 (25:33)

Sounds. Sounds like the captain in the garage.

Host 1 (25:39)

I am a postage stamp. A stamp can travel all around the world on an envelope, but always remains in the corner of the envelope that it is on. But I'll give. I'll give a treat for you and for the listeners too, just for playing along. We mentioned lodo in Denver. Yeah, when Vincent Groves ran there, it was a rough, rough area. So originally officially known as the Union Station neighborhood until the Denver Post writer Dick Crick first referred to it as Lodo in 1983 in a column that he wrote. And he was referring to lower downtown Denver. And I wanted to give Lo Doe its props because while when Groves was running the streets of lodo, it sounds like a pretty nasty, terrible place.

Host 2 (26:32)

Yeah, sounds like my kind of place.

Host 1 (26:34)

Well, lower downtown Denver has become a national model of how a decaying city neighborhood can be converted into a thriving residential, retail and recreational district. So people that live in this area have visited their know that this is the Coors Field area. So if you are there, my treat to you is to go to the Cherry Cricket. It is an amazing place for food, drinks and Sports. Get the 983 Big Cheesy Burger. This was the 2022 People's Choice winning burger. The Cherry Cricket has had six first place Denver Burger battle winners.

Host 2 (27:22)

Foreign.

Host 1 (27:27)

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Host 2 (30:00)

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Host 1 (30:02)

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Host 1 (33:03)

Cheers to you Captain. We, we continue to get positive reviews on itunes and on other platforms too. I keep, I keep thinking that's going to stop someday. But no, the listeners are hard ones.

Host 2 (33:15)

From time to time.

Host 1 (33:16)

Yes we do. But our listeners are warriors, right? We got a. We got a whole army of warriors out there who you got to fight for your right to garage. And they do. All right, Captain. Cheers to the people in the back. Cheers to everybody out there in listener land. Cheers to all the folks. You know, maybe you're listening to this after you just took your kids out for Beggars Night and you just need to wind down on the back porch or in the garage with a beer. We hope that we are doing that beer and your earballs some justice here tonight. So we started off westerly on our Beggar's Night adventure. Let's move Easterly. We'll go to Plainfield, Wisconsin. So True Crime author Johnny Trevisani encouraged us to use some pages from a couple of chapters. He is the writer of the recently released book the Serial Killer Travel Guide across America. Your coast to coast tour of terror, which is the inspiration for this garage episode. So from Plainfield, Wisconsin, you know where we are going. Because if true crime were a town, well then this disgusting, pathetic little man would be the talk of said town. Edward Theodore Gein, the butcher of Plainfield. Some say the ghoul of playing field. I say serial killer and body snatcher. Now that's a hobby that you don't see too often anymore, some good old fashioned body snatching.

Host 2 (34:52)

Well, he's also a creative type. He liked to make furniture and clothing items.

Host 1 (34:58)

Oh yeah, he wasn't just sitting around doing nothing. He. He was, he was busy. He was very busy. All right, from the book the Serial Killer Travel Guide across America. Here we go. Ed Gein, aka the Plainfield Ghoul kills two plus his span of activities, according to Johnny's book is 1944-1957. We should point out that beyond the body snatching, the grave digging, the grave robbery and the two murders, he suspected of all kinds of other stuff. And his shenanigans were so out there and crazy and weird that I think it's kind of difficult to get get a great idea of everything that he may have done. And maybe some of that goes to his much debated level of psychosis. So from the book here it reads, Geen Ed Gein, AKA the Plainfield Ghoul, was born in La Crosse County, Wisconsin. His parents eventually purchased a farm in Plainfield. The family moved to the farm to prevent outsiders from influencing their sons, which was, in retrospect, a shitty idea. He needed some outside influences. Ed Gein left the farm only to go to school. His mother preached to her boys about how immoral the world was and that all women except for her were nothing but whores. While Gein was an awkward child, often laughing to himself for no reason, his awkwardness did not matter a whole lot as his mother didn't allow him to have friends. Anyway, Gein's father died in 1940 from heart failure and in 1944 a brush fire occurred near the farm and Ed's brother, his brother went to try to put out this fire and later Ed Gein reported to the police that his brother was missing. They organized a search party and Ed Gein led them directly to his missing brother, who lay dead with bruises on his head. The whole my brother is missing, oh, and there's the body vibe caused investigators to believe that possibly Ed Gein had killed his sibling but was never charged. That's something if you go Back way in the garage archives to episode. I believe it was episode 49. This was back when we were still learning how to turn on a microphone. We covered Ed Gein's case well.

Host 2 (37:33)

We knew how to turn them on. We just didn't know which direction to talk into them.

Host 1 (37:38)

Didn't know how to turn them off apparently either, because we've done about 800 episodes since. Yeah, we talked about this and, and I feel like when we, when we were talking about this portion of the Geen story, that this part might have been a little lesser known or. Or less reported at the time. And, and one that was a bit of a shocker for me. I recall when, when discovering this little tidbit of information. But after his brother's death, Ed Gein lived alone with his mother, who eventually died in December of 1945. And then after that, Ed Gein is going to live on the farm all alone in that house. And that's when, as the captain put it, little Eddie got creative.

Host 2 (38:23)

Well, Ed is very hard to research because I believe his. The legend of Ed Gein is probably bigger than the actual facts of Ed Gein.

Host 1 (38:36)

Agreed.

Host 2 (38:37)

And the different individuals or the different movies and characters that his legend inspired then become basically amplification to the legend of Ed Gein.

Host 1 (38:53)

The book continues on. It says in 1957, Plainfield Hardware Store owner Bernice Worden disappeared. Ed Gein was known to be the last person who was in the store before she vanished. So the cops decided to talked to him. When police searched Ed Gein's property, they found her decapitated body in a shed, hung upside down. Her torso was, quote, dressed like a deer. It's shocking to me. Okay, so we're talking about some old cases here when it comes to the Ed Gein story. Yeah, it's really shocking to me that some of the books that discuss him, either in short form or long form, talking about a smattering of serial killers or just focused in on Ed Gein solo. I'm shocked. This picture is somewhat readily available of this upside down, decapitated, naked body who's dressed like a deer, basically split down the middle. I don't want to go into too much of a description there, but it's readily available enough to the point that, you know, the, the bookshelves sitting behind me right now when, when we have company over, especially if they have small children. These doors are shut. These doors are shut because it's images like that that I do not want somebody to stumble upon because you cannot, you cannot unsee that.

Host 2 (40:25)

Well, I'm going to say something and I hope it doesn't come off insensitive, but I think one of the pieces of the equation of Ed Gein is that he lived on a farm and that he came from a family of farmers. So I think some of the actions towards these victims or just bodies, which you could argue is a victimization of a dead person that shouldn't have been dug up like Ed did. But a lot of these things that we see, he would basically treating these victims as animals and you would see that, you know, in farmers, especially back in the day, using every piece of these animals for their own survival.

Host 1 (41:15)

So. And this list may vary depending on where you go. And I think that there's. I kind of hesitate to report this list because, like I said, I've seen it. If you go to four or five different sources, you're going to see slightly different versions of this, this list. According to what police found when they searched his home, searched the farm, the, the garage, the shed. But according to the Serial killer Travel Guide Across America, it says here, after searching the house, police found four noses, human bones and fragments, nine masks of human skin, bowls made from human skulls, 10 female heads with the tops sawn off, human skin covering several chairs, the head of a woman named Mary Hogan in a paper bag, Bernice Worden's head in a burlap sack, nine vulvas in a shoebox, skulls on his bedpost, organs in the refrigerator, a pair of lips on a drawstring for a window shade, a belt made of human female nipples, a lampshade made from the skin of a human face. So he had told investigators that over the years he had gone to graveyards dozens of times to exhume recently buried face, females, female bodies, and then brought the bodies home where he's doing these activities here. So I want to go to. Let's jump from the travel guide here next, Captain. Let's go to the late, great Martin Fido. I'm not sure how many of our fellow American listeners will know Fido, but I would bet that many of our wonderful UK listeners will know of him. Martin Fido was a brilliant professor, a great true crime writer of several books, and a brilliant Ripperologist. Fido penned many wonderful biographies. But it is his work, it is from his work for his 1986 book, Murder Guide to London, that after he studied the memoirs of senior Scotland Yard officials like Sir Robert Anderson, that we learned that police suspected that the Ripper was a poor Polish Jew. Their words, please. And we Start to learn about contemporary suspects like Kosminski, Aaron Kosminski, and then later David Cohen. One of Fido's books, which was one of my first true crime books. This was from 1993. It's titled the Chronicle of Crime. The Infamous Villains of Modern History and Their Hideous Crimes. And this book, Fido grabs a snippet of a major crime, something reported nationwide and worldwide. And these from all around the world, these stories and of the time period. The book covers both the 19th and the 20th centuries. So the headline that he put 1957 for the Gein arrest is, farmer cross dressed in dead women's skins. And then it has a. It has a similar list of what we just covered, of. Of an inventory of what was found on the farmer in the house. And Fido goes on to write, when questioned, Ed admitted to digging up the bodies of numerous women from the cemetery to assemble his collection. And in addition to Mrs. Warden, he had killed bar proprietor Mary Hogan in 1954.

Host 2 (45:09)

Yeah.

Host 1 (45:10)

Now, I guess at the time, in 54, her disappearance had been put down as a possible, possibly connected to her connections with the Chicago underworld. So it doesn't sound like Gein was at the top of the list of suspects, but if I recall correctly, he was somebody that was mentioned, because I think somebody had either seen him going in to the bar or leaving the bar.

Host 2 (45:33)

They saw his truck outside.

Host 1 (45:35)

Yeah. And it Fido goes on to write, Ed ate parts of his corpses. Weirdest of all, at full moon, he liked to dance, dressed up as a woman in mask, wig, waistcoat and greaves, with a vulva held to him by panties. Sheriff's officers wondered with a shudder as they explored the half of the house Ed had sealed up. These rooms turned out to be those inhabited by his puritanical mother, preserved exactly as they had been at the time of her death. Then people realized that Mrs. Hogan and Mrs. Warden slightly resembled the late Mrs. Geen, who had always taught Ed that women were bad and sex was wicked. Ed has been sent straight to the lunatic asylum without anyone pausing to consider a trial.

Host 2 (46:33)

I believe these are the only two killings that he ever confessed to. But like you said, we believe he's responsible for the death of his brother and possibly many others. But when they find these victims that he dug up that weren't victims of his murder, but victims of his grave robbery, I think that's where it got very convoluted for investigators to decipher what he was responsible and what he wasn't responsible for. For.

Host 1 (47:08)

Yeah. And the one thing that's great about this book, the Chronicle of Crime. There's often a picture that is typically grabbed from a newspaper, but there is a picture here of Ed Gein and he's, he's wearing a flannel hat. He looks like your typical Wisconsin farmer of that time period. He's. The police were nice enough to let him put on a jacket and gloves. Yeah. And he just looks like you're, you're kind of your regular Joe.

Host 2 (47:36)

It comes from such a small town that I think everybody tried to be nice to everybody. And even though he was a little bit of the town weirdo, I think he was, yes. But I think he was nice and polite to people. So that's where law enforcement wasn't really suspicious of all the activities he was doing. And also he's out on the farm and if you just don't have visitors, then there's no way of people knowing. In a lot of these farms, it's just not commonplace. Just pop on the property and start looking around.

Host 1 (48:13)

Well, and you're exactly right. And he was even polite with the police. And he, like we said, he's kind of the local oddball. And don't you hear that like, ah, yeah, he's, he's weird, but he's harmless. And I think that's what everybody kind of considered Ed to be for most of his life until they, his mother passes away and then they find out that he's been killing women and he's got all this horrific stuff in his house and farm. Now I do want to jump real quick to. This is from Mary Brett's book titled out of the Mouth of Serial Killers. This is page 139 here and she's talking about Ed Gein here. And these are some of the things that he said. So regarding the Bernice Warden's murder or murderer, I should say, when he is questioned by police, Ed Gein's response is, quote, it must have been someone pretty cold blooded that had committed that murder in Ed's opinion. And then when he's asked about the missing woman, Mary Hogan, which we would ultimately learn is likely his first victim, he says, quote, she isn't missing. She's at the farm right now, end quote. So he, he's not going way out of his way to try to hide the facts of, of the case. And, and I guess why would he, regardless of what you think his state of mind is, I mean they're finding the evidence plain and simple, right there on his farm, in his house. And then I'll, I'll go to one more book, Fred Gein. Here, Captain. This one's by Paul Anthony woods titled Ed Gein Psycho. Now this is. This is unbelievable. This is from the very back of the book here.

Host 2 (50:02)

Go for it.

Host 1 (50:03)

Unbelievable. I can't. I. This will never make any sense to me in, in any context at all. But there is. According to his book Ed Gein Psycho, there is an Ed Gein fan club, an Ed Gein fan club. So you can get a certificate of membership, which is a certificate with your name on it that says that this certifies that blank. Let's say the Captain. This certifies that the captain is a member in good standing of the official international Ed Gein Fan Club and has been registered as an official member entitled to all membership benefits. I have no idea what those benefits would be, but one apparently is this certificate of membership. And then it's dated and then it would be signed by the president of the official International Ed Gein Fan Club. There was a limited edition T shirt. This is Gallery of Horror and it has Ed Gein's picture on it. And there's also buttons and stickers and all those kinds of things. And we're not going to go to this city or state on our little adventure here this week. But the mailing address for the Ed Gein Fan club is out of Tempe, Arizona.

Host 2 (51:18)

Wow.

Host 1 (51:19)

What's up, Tempe? What are you doing? What are you doing?

Host 2 (51:22)

Now don't blame Tempe for this club.

Host 1 (51:25)

Just one person in Tempe and who.

Host 2 (51:28)

Wants to wear a shirt with Ed's ugly mug on it? You know what I mean? Like, that's kind of bizarre. Let's put an ugly man's face on my T shirt.

Host 1 (51:42)

Yeah.

Host 2 (51:43)

But again, the. The legend of Ed is going to keep growing because the amount of fabrications and just blatant lies that this Ryan Murphy project, the Ed Gein monster on Netflix, people are going to watch this eight part series and think that this is somewhat factual. Because I think some people go, well, it's about a real person, so it has to be based on facts, just like a documentary. And it's not. And there's a whole. There's a whole thing towards the end where he's in communication with Richard Speck, another serial killer. And what the show is claiming is Richard Speck was in contact with Ted Bundy before some of the Ted Bundy murders. And then it shows Ed talking to the FBI saying, hey, I think this guy you should look into is this guy probably goes by the name Ted probably drives a Volkswagen Beetle. And he's being, he's been in correspondence with Richard Speck. And so when they caught Bundy as a part of the monster series, it shows Ed going, hey, I did something good in this world. But we, there's no evidence that Ted Bundy wrote Richard Speck and we have no evidence that Richard Speck even wrote Ed Gein.

Host 1 (53:17)

Yes, that's absolutely correct. And we would have to believe, there's every reason to believe that all of that mail would have been very meticulously, meticulously monitored. So the one thing that always will stick with me, with Ed Gein, not just that picture that I had mentioned of the victim hanging in the shed, you can't unsee that. But one thing that is unfortunately tattooed on my brain having read about him as, as a youngster, is the portion of the story where they say that he would dress up in these skin suits or portions of these skin suits and, and dance in the moonlight or dance in the graveyard at night in the pitch black, or so for, for now, because for most of my life, having read that when I was young, anytime there's a song that mentions, you know, dancing, Dancing in the moonlight or Dance by the light of the Moon, there's a whole bunch of them. That moon dancer. There's all kinds of songs that are, that are like that. My freaking brain goes to an image of like a silhouette, shadow figure of Geen dressed in skin suit or as a woman dancing in the graveyard or, or with the, with the big moon right in front of him. Like, I cannot, I don't know if there's enough beer in this garage to get that, that out of my head for some reason. But anytime from that day on to this day, that's what I think of when there's a, there's a moon dance song that I hear.

Host 2 (54:58)

Well, like you said, this image, a real life image you won't ever be able to get out of your head. Well, the eight part Netflix DocuSign, the eight part Netflix Monster Ed Gein series has probably a thousand images I'll never be able to get out of my.

Host 1 (55:19)

Head in eight episodes that I'll probably never be able to get off of my Netflix app. All right, trick or treat here, Captain.

Host 2 (55:26)

Before we wrap up, let's go with treat.

Host 1 (55:29)

All right, for treat and we'll circle back to your trick. You're not getting off that easy. According to Johnny Trevisani in his great book, he says, before you leave the Plainfield, Wisconsin area, make sure you Check out the annual Pentonwell Paloa Ice fishery and raffle that takes place in January at the Lure Bar and Grill. And he says if you've never checked out an indoor ice fishing tournament, this is your chance. And they have cash prizes for the the tournament as well, and raffles that go along with this.

Host 2 (56:07)

$10 goes to the winner.

Host 1 (56:09)

I think it's he puts 1500 is the top cash prize, but I would imagine that would probably change from year to year. But indoor ice fishing sounds absolutely fantastic to me. And here's your trick, Captain. Another riddle. What happens once in a lifetime, twice in a moment, but never in a thousand years?

Host 2 (56:34)

Once in a lifetime. Sex.

Host 1 (56:38)

The letter M. Oh, I had sex once.

Host 2 (56:43)

Just let everybody know. Thanks for joining us here in the garage. Stick around for part two. More fascinating and disturbing facts of serial killers.

Host 1 (57:12)

And until then, be good, be kind, and don't live.

Host 2 (57:21)

Sam.

Host 1 (57:55)

This is a real good story about Drew, a real United Airlines customer. After almost four years of treatments, I was finally cancer free. My mom's like, where do you want to go to celebrate? I'm like, let's go somewhere tropical. And then pilot hopped in intercom and started talking about me. And I was like, what is going on here?

Host 2 (58:10)

My wife beat cancer too, and I want wanted to celebrate his special moment.

Host 1 (58:14)

That's Bill, a real United pilot.

Host 2 (58:16)

We brought him drinks and donuts.

Host 1 (58:18)

We all signed a card. I was smiling ear to ear. Best flight ever for sure. That's how good leads the way.