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Blue Print for Murder /// Part 2 /// 811
01:09:39
Blue Print for Murder /// Part 2 /// 811 Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com The Gilgo Beach Killer, The Long Island Serial Killer, L.I.S.K., and the list of names, and monikers goes on and on. These are all names given to an unidentified serial killer that is responsible for four murders, maybe eleven unsolved homicides, and likely the number could be higher. These names refer to a series of murders that took place from 1996 to 2011 in which the remains of eleven people were found on the South Shore of Long Island, New York. From the public’s perspective, this all started when Shannon Gilbert went missing in the early morning hours of May 1, 2010. Her disappearance triggered the finding of four sets of remains off of Ocean Parkway at Gilgo Beach. These victims became known as the Gilgo Four. By May of 2011 police had discovered six more sets of remains in the area. But the truth is that this nightmare started long before Shannon disappeared. In 2023, an architect th...
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- [00:00]
The Captain
SA.
- [00:40]
Nick
Welcome to True Crime Garage, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me, as always, is a man who uses a machete to cut through red tape.
- [00:51]
The Captain
Here is the captain and I also still have a bunch of floppy disc. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.
- [01:02]
Nick
Today. Straight out of the old garage fridge, we are still sipping on this dark dandy. It's the Ogre Sweet milk stout from the Guardian Brewing Company. They keep the bitterness low with milk sugar, my friends. I did expect the ABV to be a bit higher because it is a stout. It's 5% cook garage grade three and three quarter bottle caps out of five. And here are some of our good garage friends that helped us out with this week's beer fun. First up, a shout out to long distance shout out to my friend Caitlin Knight in London, England.
- [01:41]
The Captain
And a big we like you jib goes out to Jim Lay from Knoxville, Tennessee.
- [01:46]
Nick
Let's do a Ron Swanson please and thank you and include a big holiday cheers to longtime friend of the show Stuart Schweigert in West Lafayette, Indiana.
- [01:57]
The Captain
And in good old parts unknown, we got Karen Kelly. Make sure if you're living in parts unknown that you pay your HOA fees. They're due before the end of the year.
- [02:07]
Nick
Next we have a shout out to Corey. And last but certainly not least, we have a cheers to Chrissy. We like the cut of her jib. Chrissy is in Coatesville, Pennsylvania. Everyone we just mentioned helped us out with this week's beer fund, helped us fill up the old garage fridge, and for that we thank you.
- [02:25]
The Captain
Yeah, BWR you and beer run for everything. True crime. Check out true crime garage.com make sure you sign up on the mailing list. Also you can find links to off the record on Patreon or Apple podcast subscription if you need more True Crime Garage for your earballs. And you know you do. And that's enough of the business.
- [02:46]
Nick
All right, everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. In reviewing this HK planning document that is often been referred to by yours truly, by the Captain and by several others as a blueprint for murder, we discussed the four category section of underlined headings and those headings were Problems, Supplies, DS and trg. We haven't got to the supplies yet Here, Captain. Now, one thing of concern for the author of this document was the trace source of these supplies. So this author is concerned that the supplies that they would be using for their murders could be traced back to them. So what are those supplies? Well, we have a nice and tidy list here and the items listed are as follows. Booties, lie, acid, police scanner, rope cord, saw, cutting tools, hair nets, photo film, burn can, foam drain cleaner, body wash, wipes, tarps, drop cloths, medical gloves, bags, tape, large electric, well it says E L E C clips. I'm assuming that's electric clips and ratcheted cargo strap. A lot of these are pretty self explanatory I think. Police scanner of course you, you're going to want to be notified if police are on the way or keeping tabs on your opponent if you will because you, you're trying to avoid detection, you're trying to avoid interaction with police, you're trying to avoid police getting hot on your trail. Booties would be to put on your shoes, put on your feet when entering a space lie which is misspelled here. Slash acid would be, I'm guessing to increase the rate of decomposition. Rope, slash cord could be used for various things, obviously to bind and control your victim. And then unfortunately we know some of the victims that Rex Herman has been charged in their deaths were dismembered. And so we have saw sl cutting tools which would be used for various activities. But we can make the assumption in the leap here that those items he listed were used in the dismemberment of the victims. We talked a little bit yesterday about photos and this could be photos of a lot of things. It could be photos of the crime scene and it doesn't have to be the crime scene once the body has been dumped or once the crime is committed. It could also be for reconnaissance, photographing areas, photographing potential victims, photographing vehicles or some space or a structure. But the photo film I firmly believe very likely has to do with him wanting some kind of documentation to keep in his possession for a period of time after committing these heinous acts. And then the burn can, it's been discussed that he had a burn drum in his backyard. If he's saying that one of his supplies for his blueprint of murder for these murders is a burn can, then he's probably burning some of these photographs. He's probably burning some of these supplies. Right. He list as a problem for fingerprints inside of gloves.
- [06:58]
The Captain
Yes, just burn the gloves, burn the.
- [07:01]
Nick
Gloves, burn the medical gloves. And the what you're seeing here under his list of problems too, some of this, yeah, he's probably come up with on his own. But some of this he studied others that are like him and noticed ways that they were caught, ways that they were detected, ways that they were apprehended, and what was used against them in court. And so not only were these are these problems for him, he knows these. That they could be potential problems for him because they ended up being problems for people that were like him, that were doing similar activities to what he is either doing or. Or intends to do or is doing and intends to do further.
- [07:45]
The Captain
Well, and like you were saying, this is kind of a checklist, almost like something that he was going to reference. You'd think on this list he would put control urges to want to kill and to destroy victims.
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Nick
Right. Maybe go to church would be something.
- [08:04]
The Captain
He could have at the top of your list. But then at the top, control urges to want to kill and destroy humans.
- [08:12]
Nick
Yeah.
- [08:13]
The Captain
If you read that first, maybe you don't go to. To step two.
- [08:17]
Nick
Maybe be. Be a good husband and father to my family by not killing innocent people. Yeah, we've already come up with the idea. He's. He's come up with the wrong list.
- [08:29]
The Captain
Yeah, but I don't think trash clearly is.
- [08:33]
Nick
Clearly this is. He's not capable, man. He's not capable of being any of those things that we just discussed. He's only capable of being this monster.
- [08:42]
The Captain
And again, look, maybe I'm. I hate to keep bringing this up, but I could be wrong. Like I said, I. To me, this looks like some worksheet you would get at Sunday school, but it could. It might not be exactly the way he formatted it. This could be law enforcement formatting it for. So it's easy for us to digest. So if that's the case, I apologize.
- [09:11]
Nick
Yeah, I don't think you need to apologize to this ogre here that we're talking about.
- [09:15]
The Captain
But no, no, I'm not apologizing to him. I'm apologizing to. If somebody is talking with a friend and they go, you know, that kind of would look like a worksheet. And somebody says, well, that wasn't the way he set it up. That's the way law enforcement presented it. That could just be my speculation that he. He presented it in this weird way.
- [09:37]
Nick
Well, in the bail document that we. That we're talking about here, the. I'm sorry, the bail application from June 6, 2024, this document is printed and provided, and it's. It's a legal document that was filed with the state of New York. And in it it says. It discusses some of these items, and then it says See embedded excerpt on the following page. So when I see the word excerpt, I take that to mean this is directly from the document that we are referencing. Meaning like the, the look of it, the format of it, and what the reason why I go on with that belief here, Captain, is there are a good number of misspellings, which makes it a little difficult for me to read off the. The list here at times. But there's misspellings that if this were something that you were simply. That law enforcement or the prosecution and their team were putting together simply as a presentation to the courts.
- [10:44]
The Captain
Right.
- [10:45]
Nick
They would have corrected those misspellings. Right where here with leaving them. It's a bit of an indicator to me that maybe we're looking at it as this might be a screenshot of what they viewed when they pull it up on a computer when they did the file carving and carved out this file and what it looked like and what they were seeing. I got a question for you here, Captain.
- [11:14]
The Captain
Yes.
- [11:15]
Nick
Because this is something that, that law enforcement does not try to explain. The district attorney does not try to explain this. But the title of the planning document, the title of the blueprint for murder, it's. It's HK2002 Dash04. Well, obviously it seems like that's. They're stating a year. The author stating a year 2002 to 2004. That seems pretty standard practice there. What does HK have you thought about what HK could mean or what it may mean?
- [11:52]
The Captain
And what was the initials found on the belt?
- [11:54]
Nick
Depending on how you look at the belt, the. The initials on the belt would have been WH I want to make sure that I'm saying this correctly. It would have been either HM or WH so that doesn't line up and frankly, HM or WH doesn't line up with Rex Herman's name. But there's thought that his was it. His grandfather was William Heerman.
- [12:23]
The Captain
Yeah.
- [12:24]
Nick
And so there's some thought that it may have been his grandfather's belt or maybe his father's belt.
- [12:30]
The Captain
And if he inherited the house, he could inherited the house from his grandparents.
- [12:35]
Nick
Yeah.
- [12:35]
The Captain
So could it's been an item left in the house.
- [12:38]
Nick
We do know that he has a brother.
- [12:40]
The Captain
He obviously would have followed this in the news and he'd go, okay, well, they're, they're calling it the Long Island Serial Killer, but maybe he's calling it something else. HK Something Killer.
- [12:54]
Nick
Yeah. So that, that's where my mind goes. Because what I'm thinking about is the date. Right. The. The author of this Document has provided some reference to date in the title, 2002-2004. Well, the Gilgo 4 were not discovered yet. They wouldn't be discovered until 2010. And so the name, the Long Island Serial Killer, or lisk, doesn't really exist until after the finding of those remains. I. I thought long and hard about this. What. What we do know. Let's compare them to somebody that. I don't want to say they're exactly alike, because I actually find them to be quite different, but there are some similarities. We referenced BTK Dennis Raider already, and we do know that Dennis Raider did the same type of planning. I don't know that it's been confirmed, but we saw in the dramatization on the great Netflix show Mindhunter that for some reason only lasted two seasons. Everybody's still in an uproar about it.
- [13:54]
The Captain
Well, it's because David Fincher does too many shots, and he racks up a giant Bill, and he.
- [14:03]
Nick
And he works on, like, a bazillion different projects. Right. Like, it's like he's. He's really good at what he does, and I think he has a hard time saying no. Like, everything seems like a great idea.
- [14:12]
The Captain
Well, do you remember the scene in Mindhunter where Bill is outside his house and he's barbecuing for some people? I think he said that they did 50 some takes of that gene.
- [14:25]
Nick
John Douglas told me that they did 70. I think he said 73 takes of. Of Bill Tench barbecuing.
- [14:33]
The Captain
That's insane.
- [14:36]
Nick
The man is a perfectionist with the burn. Can we know? In the dramatization of Mindhunter, it shows Dennis Raider tossing drawings and journal entries and even photographs, possibly into a burn. Can we do know that? We do know this from his interaction, from letters that he sent to the media or to police, that BTK attempted to give himself his own name, knowing that at some point, the media or the police or the public would create a name for the serial killer. Now, if you have this giant ego, which I believe Dennis Raider thinks very highly of himself for reasons unknown. Right. No, nobody else thinks highly of him. But I think he had. I think there was a part of him that was worried, what if you get a bad nickname? A bad moniker from police or from the public or the media. Right. Like we talked, we've covered the. The Weepy Voice Killer. That's not really a name that you want to get. And so he.
- [15:49]
The Captain
Killer.
- [15:50]
Nick
Tiny Pee Pee Killer.
- [15:52]
The Captain
Yeah, it's not a good one. I think, in fact, just the Huroman Like Hurriman Killer could be.
- [15:58]
Nick
The. The H could stand for his last name, but there implies that he's going to be detected, he's going to be identified. I'm. I'm known as the Herman Killer, where BTK actually provided a list of suggested nicknames in monikers for himself. In fact, in. In today's recommended reading, there was a. There was a lot of talk about the serial rapist that was dubbed the name the Stinky Rapist. I'm guessing that's. That. That's not a name that anybody desires to have.
- [16:37]
The Captain
The Stinky Cheese Rapist.
- [16:38]
Nick
We'll never know until Herman tells us if he chooses to, because right now he's. He's saying he's not guilty of any of the charges that he faces. And look, I apologize for the terms here, the terminology here, but I'm. I'm just trying to guess he's killing primarily from what we can see what he's been accused of. All of the victims have been escorts or sex workers. Was. Did he think at some point they might call him the Hooker Killer Or. Or let's think about proximity or location. The Hamptons Killer. That's the only thing I could really come up with here. The H makes sense, as you pointed out, because it is the initial of his last name. The. The really disturbing thing here on. Amongst the other items of supplies is the ratchet cargo straps. That to me means like those. The straps that I use for my truck that you can. You. You throw something in the bed of your truck, especially if it's heavy, large object, and you put those big straps on it over top and on the. On the back of the item, and you crank them down, right. And they're. They're like impossible. You have to release that crank, that lock on that crank before you can release that item. And when we get into some of the other items that we haven't got to here yet. I wonder if he's using those cargo straps to strap down a victim. Because he. He could be using the cord or rope that he. That is listed here that we previously discussed, but it's never referenced as those as being bindings. So he's using something to control these victims. And he certainly seems to have a desire to torture them. And you cannot torture a. A dead victim. I'm sorry. I apologize for saying these things, but.
- [18:34]
The Captain
But you can just torture the body.
- [18:36]
Nick
You could. You could. You could degrade, Right?
- [18:40]
The Captain
Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a proper word. Yeah.
- [18:42]
Nick
And desecrate the body, but you can't torture. He references torture. And so he's a sadistic sadist. He's a sadist. A sadistic killer. And a sadist gets off on implying pain, delivering pain. And seeing. And visualizing and seeing the pain and the agony and the terror of the victims. Specifically in the eyes and the face of the victim. I'm kind of. I've kind of had enough of supplies. I'm ready to move on to the next line item if you are, Captain.
- [19:16]
The Captain
Please do.
- [19:17]
Nick
Okay. Thank you. DS is underlined. It's a category here. One of the four categories. I'm guessing dump site. Right. Because underneath it, with the listed items he has is DS1 Mill Road. DS2, question mark, question mark, question mark. Next item is dump site. And then there's a notation there that says, next time, recon dumpster locations. Okay, so if DS does in fact mean dump site, One Mill Road. Well, we know that in the area of Mill Road we have at least one, if not two, of the victims. Their partial remains were recovered there. So if we go through that and we have DS1 and then the next item is DS2, question mark, question mark. It appears to me he's. He wants more than one dump site for each victim because he's dismembering the victims. He's trying to avoid the victim being identified with. Therefore, it makes it more difficult for he, the killer, to be identified. And so he's putting the remains in more than one location. Therefore, he's got two dump sites for one victim. Dumpster site, I think, is his plan for getting rid of some of his materials and supplies that he used in that murder.
- [20:39]
The Captain
Yeah, or like you said, if he's dismembering the bodies, then maybe you have a dump site for part of the victim and then. And then dispose of the other parts through dumpsters. I mean, we've seen that in. In several cases with other serial killers.
- [20:58]
Nick
Yes, but those would be unknown victims then. Because the victims that we have recovered were not recovered from dumpsters. They were recovered from different dump sites. Their. Their complete remains took some time to find all of them. Sorry. For.
- [21:14]
The Captain
For again, is it. It's called True Crime Garage. You should know.
- [21:19]
Nick
No, I know, but to even hear. I. I have no problem reading these things. I have no problem thinking about these things. Sometimes I have difficulty saying these things out loud.
- [21:29]
The Captain
Right. Right.
- [21:30]
Nick
It. It turns my stomach. And so when I. Sometimes when I'm saying sorry, I'm apologizing to my damn self.
- [21:38]
The Captain
I shouldn't ate that burrito.
- [21:41]
Nick
Sorry, Colonel TRG is the next item here. That is category that is underlined. And we talked about btk Dennis Raider. He called his victims and. Or his projects PJs. It's generally understood that he's. He's saying targets here, TRG, meaning targets. And underneath this category, he has listed T1 Megan, which unfortunately we have a victim that he's being charged with her murder, and her first name is Megan. Then he lists small is good, meaning does he want a smaller victim, a more petite victim? A lot of these victims that he's being charged with are petite women. Petite is good for many reasons. For him, easier to transport, easier to move, especially dead weight. Also his size versus their size. Very easy to overpower and control. This next one here is states T unk black. To me, that likely means target unknown black. So was he targeting an African American woman at the time or desired to? And if in fact he was targeting an African American woman or desired to. And let's. Let's pretend for a moment that he ended up doing so. This might be a big indicator that there's a victim out there that we are unaware of, because currently the victims he's been charged with do not fit that description.
- [23:26]
The Captain
And you wonder if they found. Because like we said, two properties did. When they did the search initially of his house and of the other property, did they find similar items or did he just decide that when he would go to a different location, he wasn't going to risk not having home turf, if you will.
- [23:50]
Nick
Yeah. And the prosecutor's office here outlines or goes into some of their thoughts about this. This particular portion of this document stating the remains, the human remains of Jessica Taylor discovered in 2003, as well as the remains of Valerie mack discovered in 2000, were dumped in two locations. One of those locations being the vicinity of Mill Road, which is listed in this document as a DS number one.
- [24:23]
The Captain
Right.
- [24:24]
Nick
And then it states, On March 29, 2011, Ms. Taylor's torso, skull and hands recovered near Ocean Parkway. And they're saying possible second dump site for that same victim's remains. And the document goes on to read, on April 4, 2011, Valerie Mac's skull, hands, and right foot were also recovered near Ocean Parkway, also a second dump site. The recent discovery of this document prompted the April 2024 cadaver search of the Manorville area, which did not yield the recovery of any additional sets of human remains. So this is intriguing because this document comes out, this press conference comes out in June of 2024. And what they're. What it's doing here is not only backing up what they're already saying, hey, look, this guy's responsible for the. The Gilgo 4 victims that were all found on. On the side of Ocean Parkway in the burlap bags, roughly about 500ft from one another. So it's very easy to. For anybody, even a layperson that doesn't know anything about serial killers, to go, you know what? Those four victims that were found all in the same fashion in burlap sacks on the side of the same road, very near one another. That's probably connected. Well, what's intriguing here is at the time of this document put together by the state, Rex Heuerman's not charged with the murder of Valerie Mack and not charged with the murder of Jessica Taylor. But what they're pointing out is while we found some of their remains near this mill Road, again, Mill Road referenced in this document, we found other remains of both of these victims in the vicinity of Ocean Parkway near the other four victims. The Gilgo four victims.
- [26:50]
The Captain
All right, we are back. Tall cans in the air. So much more to get to the blueprints of murder. Cheers to you, Colonel. And Merry Christmas, you filthy animals.
- [27:02]
Nick
Merry Christmas to all.
- [27:05]
The Captain
Happy Hanukkah. Happy Kwanzaa.
- [27:08]
Nick
I celebrate all. I make sure one of them. Because it's once a year, baby, we might as well. You gotta live it up. It's once a year. I. I do it all.
- [27:18]
The Captain
I even celebrate with the people that don't celebrate.
- [27:21]
Nick
But I'll tell you what I know, that's what I do not do. If you don't celebrate, stay away.
- [27:28]
The Captain
Oh, no, my thing is, if you don't celebrate, I won't celebrate with you.
- [27:32]
Nick
That's right. If you. Kwanzaa, if Kwanza, Hanukkah, Christmas, whatever. Or the New Year, Christmas Eve. Some people weigh into Christmas Eve. I know as a kid that was. I loved Christmas Eve. Still do.
- [27:44]
The Captain
Boxing Day.
- [27:45]
Nick
Boxing Day. Oh, I. Yeah. If you show up with a drink in your hand, we're going to celebrate all of it together. Yeah, that's. That's the way we do it here in the garage.
- [27:56]
The Captain
It's basically Christmas every week in the garage.
- [27:59]
Nick
Well, and plus, we're going to need some libations to help us forget some of the things that we've discussed here.
- [28:07]
The Captain
Yeah. Just a note to all the listeners. Don't bring up this topic at no. Your Christmas party, especially not at your work Christmas party.
- [28:18]
Nick
I was just gonna say this is not safe for work, any of this discussions right here, because you if you're not already the weird guy or girl, you will instantly become weird guy or girl. The next thing that this document, the HK Planning document delves into is a three category section with the headings of pre prep, prep and post event. And under the header Prep, prep we get this is abbreviated for vehicle inspection. Then engage T1 recon, DS1, locate DS2 weather report, recon, vid, vid cams, recon pickup zone for vid cams. This to me feels one of like one of the most thought out parts of this document. He wants a vehicle inspection meaning inspect my own vehicle, make sure it's prepped, make sure I'm not going to run into any vehicle problems. We have seen some criminals get busted by their vehicle simply breaking down at or near a crime scene, getting a flat tire at or near a crime scene, having a broken tail light, getting yourself pulled over on the way to or from a crime scene. Ted Bundy got pulled over with a rape slash kill kit in the trunk of his car. Engage T1. That's, that's saying I got to start up this communication with my first target, start talking to this target so I can arrange for a meetup at some point.
- [30:04]
The Captain
Well, one of the things that you are alluding to is how many times did he meet up with these individuals before they became victims? Or was it just meet up, have a ruse to meet up with them? We have several victims that family members or friends said oh well this individual was going out to do a job to meet up with a guy and they were going to make big money. And like I said in our original coverage of this case, well you can promise the world if you know, you don't have to deliver it.
- [30:40]
Nick
That's exactly right. And I tell you what, we talked about this before anybody was ever arrested. And one thing that was thought of that a lot of people were discussing, they're like, well this killer probably has a lot of money because of, look, he must be offering the victims a lot of money because in some cases the victims before they were victimized, before they were abducted and killed, had told at least, at least one situation, had said like I, I'm not talking to this guy no more or I'm not answering my phone no more on this. And so one thing that was discussed was that well this guy must just have so much money or presenting so much money or the offer is too good. It's a, it's an offer they can't refuse and they end up going with him anyway. And one thing we discussed That I thought was quite brilliant on our behalf. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Right. But quite brilliant on our behalf was if you're killing the victim, all you have to do is imply that you have money or that you're willing to pay a good amount of money. You're not actually paying that amount of money.
- [31:48]
The Captain
Well, if you wore suits to work, it'd be pretty easy. Just leave from work to meet up with any of these individuals. And some people see a suit and they just assume the person has money.
- [32:00]
Nick
Well. And the. The world is full of broken promises, so who knows what was said and never delivered? And then we get one young woman who. Who comes forward after Rex Herman was arrested, and now his face is all over tv. And she comes forward and she says, I met up with him. I spoke with him, we traded messages or whatever, several times. And I meet up with him, and he gave me the heebie jeebies. He skeeved me out. I decided not to go with him. But he kept showing me this white envelope. And she says, he never said that there was a bunch of money in there. But I took it to believe that he had an envelope full of money that he was willing to give to me if I went with him and spent the night with him. And I bet you that there are. I get it. Every tiger, they don't have the same kind of stripes, right? Every tiger might have different stripes, but if you want to learn about a tiger, you study other tigers. And we know that Gary Ridgeway, who killed sex workers, mostly sex workers and runaways, we know that Joel Rifkin, who killed mostly sex workers, drug addicts, and other types that have similar victimology. They would regularly frequent these women, pick them up, maybe even bring them to their home on occasion. They didn't kill all of them. They didn't even attempt to kill all of them. How many times did Rex Herman, the Long island serial killer, do the same thing where he had interactions, communications, meetups, and didn't victimize anybody or attempted to. We've said it time and time again. With all these serial killers, you got to look for the one that got away. And the one that got away maybe didn't get away by running for their life, screaming at the top of their lungs. Maybe they just got away because it didn't feel right to the killer, or there was something off about the scenario, or too many people saw me with this potential victim. And I think that's what we have here with this young woman that came forward and gives us a little insight into what she says is her interaction with this guy. And we, I think we all can agree, right, he's a unique looking individual. So if somebody comes forward and says I, I recognized him as soon as I saw him on tv, that's easy to believe. She's not mistaking him for some other john. Let's say he wants to know about weather reports. He doesn't want weather to get in the way. You reference getting stuck, stuck in the snow. We know that was a concern with his truck getting stuck. The recon of video cams. He wants to know with his dump sites and with his pickup sites with his targets. How many video cameras are in the area? Do they appear to be working? Can I, is there a way to avoid them? Can I, can I pick someone up or. Or get rid of a victim in an area where there would be no video cameras. But he says here that he's again referencing looking for locate DS Number two. So he still needs to find that second dump site. Prep. Under the heading prep, Captain, we have setup stage holding area, build table crossbar hardpoint. This to me seems very, a little like what you would see on Dexter. Setup stage holding area makes sense. He's. He seems to want to be able to hold them or contain the victim for a period of time. The table goes back to what I worried about with those straps that he was strapping down a victim on a table. Crossbar, from my understanding is something that you would use to further sturdy the table. You know, people can weigh a lot, right? Even a petite victim would be over £100, over £120. And sometimes, sometimes tables don't. Won't be able to hold that amount of weight. So you steady the table. Plus, if he's doing the things that I think that he's doing, he's applying pressure. He's probably leaning on the table himself. And he's not small. Hardpoint was something I had no clue about. I had to do some digging and, and thankfully come up with the task force defines hardpoint for us. And then I went elsewhere looking for to other sources to double down on this information. And it states that a hardpoint refers to in the field of sexual suspension bondage. It's a fixed attachment point in the ceiling that supports the weight of an individual being suspended off the ground, which the task force then says in the document. This is corroborated by Rex Heuerman's significant interest in pornography where they found pornography that he was searching and viewing repeatedly. Where an individual is suspended Tortured, bound to a table, decapitated. So all of these items, the crossbar hardpoint, the prep table, are all items that are going along with the pornography that he's searching out on these devices and viewing on these devices. Post event, he is talking about. Under post event, he's listed destroy file, change tires, burn gloves, dispose of picks, have story set. So prior to let's have a story of where I was, what I was doing, dispose of pics. Kind of goes back to what we talked about, whatever pictures he was taking. If it would appear, unless we find out different at trial, it would appear that if he was taking photographs of victims and things that were what I called smoking guns earlier, that he did successfully dispose and destroy those pictures. Same with gloves. Because we don't have at any point in this bail application them saying that we found these gloves that we think he used in any of the murders. The change tires. Look, I. I'm not trying to give any credit to a person like this, but the change tires is smart. We've seen some killers get caught with tire tracks. One. One person into. In particular, one serial killer is named William Suff. Bill Soft. He was a serial killer out in California, out on the west coast, many years ago. And he had this van that he would drive around, and he used it to get victims into his van. And his. His victimology is a little different than humans. He killed sex workers, but he also killed women that he knew. And he would get the victim in the vehicle and then go out to these secluded areas where he would rape and murder them. Now, he was driving around so much that he was chewing through tires, and so he was constantly putting new tires on his vehicle. However, Bill Suff didn't have a whole lot of money. So what Bill Suff would do is only replace a tire when it was needed, when it. When it was punctured or had worn through the tread. And so he was replacing tires one at a time. When they caught him, when he was finally apprehended, one thing that they used against him at court was the tires on his van. So in this orange grove, captain, they found these tire marks right next to where one of the victims was disposed of. And they. They were confused at first because investigators were like, we wait a second. We got four different kinds of tires here, Four different treads of tire. Quickly they figured out, well, the person that drove this body to where it was found was driving a vehicle that had four tires, none that match each other. They all have different tread. So when he was arrested and they Inspect his vehicle. His tires were all four different, and the tread on each one of them matched the four different kinds of tread that they found at the orange grove. And very astutely, the prosecutor pointed out in front of the judge and the jury, this is almost like a fingerprint putting bill suff at the orange grove where the victim was found. Because how many people, the probability, the math on that, the garage math on that is insane. Of how many people would have these same four tires in the same four located in the front and rear driver side, passenger side of the vehicle that match the tread on these four different tires?
- [41:24]
The Captain
Right.
- [41:25]
Nick
The next portion of this document is talking about recon reports. Remember, he wanted to know he was concerned about his route. He wanted to know the video cameras on his route to and from pickup sites for victims. To and from dump sites for victims. This here, too, I don't believe is is defined within this document. But one thing he does reference in reconnaissance reports is T1 Info. And he gives a cell phone number followed by beep slash voicemail with a different number. I'm guessing that that information has to line up with one of these victims here, or it could have been a potential victim or victim that we've not found yet.
- [42:13]
The Captain
So the next category would be takedown slash pickup.
- [42:18]
Nick
Items listed here, captain, are hunt too long seen in the area too long. Next item is, remember, don't charge gas. And then recon for video cams in pickup area next time. So it seems like he's learned. Okay, so this is intriguing. If this document was originally authored in 2000 and then updated and modified a couple times to 2001 and 2002 and maybe all the way up to 2004. This would suggest to me this third item under takedown slash pickup is that he got that he picked up somebody and after the fact became either aware that there were video cameras there or that he got concerned that there might have been video cameras there that he didn't see. So he's learning in a way, like, oh, I was concerned about video cameras at the dump site, But I didn't think about the importance of the video cameras where I'm picking up the victim.
- [43:25]
The Captain
Well, he's also says don't charge for gas, meaning I'm guessing he means don't pay for gas with a credit card. But you'd also need to be weary of surveillance footage at the gas station, you at that pump that put you in that area roughly around that time period anyways, so recon for videos everywhere.
- [43:51]
Nick
Yeah, and then hunt too Long seen an area too long. Yeah. You can, you control and you can look for these victims and you can look for pickup areas, you can look for disposal areas. But if you're sitting there or seen too many times driving around in the area, that's not going to be good for you either.
- [44:09]
The Captain
And the next item is body prep. This is his body, right?
- [44:14]
Nick
Well, I think I take it to mean the victim that he's going to dispose of because it will become obvious very quickly unfortunately. And some of these items, I'm sorry, I know that it's our kind of our job to analyze this and discuss it. Some of these items I will not, I just don't feel comfortable. The first is wash body inside in all cavities. He's trying to hide and conceal evidence. We don't, I don't know that we need to go too much more into that. Remove trace evidence and it says fingerprints, sl hair, remove trace DNA, remove ID marks, tattoos and marks it. So some of these victims were too far decomposed for us to, to have a lot of skin or flesh on them. Okay. Or, or even in a great condition. But he's obviously very concerned about the victims being identified because if you can't identify the victim even once you find them, even with the lengths he went to, to to conceal them after the fact, if you can't identify them, that makes it even harder to identify him because remember that goes back to the concern of the pickup sites where he picked the victims up. If you can't identify that victim, you very likely are never going to know where that victim was picked up. So he's saying to remove ID marks which would be anything that's unique to the victim. Like if, if she has five ear piercings in her left ear, that's something you're going to want to make not obvious to anybody that may find her. If she has a tattoo of something specific or, or really any tattoo at all would be an identifier. And he's saying to remove those before disposing of the victim. Which we know in some of these victims that's in fact exactly what happened because we know with, with, with at least one of the victims she was found within a approximately 24 hour time period of when it's believed that she was disposed of, which it's believed she was disposed of about 24 hours before she was last accounted for alive and well. And her tattoos were cut and from the body or dug out is the only way to describe that. Remove marks from torture, remove head and hands Package for transport. And we know that some of these victims had their head and hands removed and then dumped in different locations. Dispose of. The following is the next category. Tools and devices T1. So target 1, clothes and personal items. Got to get rid of those drop cloths, wipes and towels, props, toys, wood items. Anything that touched T1 what you wore. And so this is where he's referencing himself. The clothing that he wore needs to be destroyed. Destroy book and computer files, which clearly he wasn't great at. Burn gloves. Dispose of box of plastic bags to avoid trace. And then he has a things to remember. And one of those is get sleep before hunt. Too tired. Creates problems. Sound travels. Control the amount of air in and out to control the noise made. I think he was doing some of this, Captain, in his basement. If you look up that neighborhood, it is a nice neighborhood. I would describe it as a nice neighborhood. The homes are. I think if you got somebody screaming at the top of their lungs, even in someone's basement, it could be heard outside of that home, maybe even heard inside the home next door to you.
- [48:24]
The Captain
Right.
- [48:25]
Nick
But I don't know exactly. That's where my head goes. Also, there's. I don't know if that means control the structure better within you're doing this torture or if it also means. It likely means control the amount of air in and out, maybe even of the victim themselves and hit harder. Too many hit to take down. Consider a hit to the face or neck next time for takedown. So this would imply that at some with one of these victims, he had difficulty controlling them. Right. That maybe he thought he could take control of them faster and she put up a better fight than he had thought. And so now he's thinking, you know, I. Maybe I don't want to do body blows on the. On a victim. Next time, maybe I go for the face or neck. Use push pins to hang drop cloths from ceiling, not tape. Again, sounds like he's learning that the tape didn't work for some reason or didn't do. Or maybe it left tape residue that he didn't like. And he's choosing push pins or tacks rather than the tape. And again, use heavy rope for neck light rope broke under stress of being tightened. Again, unfortunately, he's learning and he had the opportunity to learn, change and adapt and do what better served him to procure torture and dispose of more victims. One thing in this document that is not really part of the planning, Captain, that is very intriguing is the state of New York tells the courts that shortly after one of the victims was disposed of. Remember I said one of the victims was found within about 24 hours of the time that it was believed that she was placed where her body was found or part of her remains were found. So police are canvassing the area. They find some witnesses that say, you know, in that spot over there where, right about where the body was found, I saw a dark colored pickup truck back up to that space. And so in one of his electronic devices, in one of his computers, they find that the day after the remains were found that somebody on that device was reading a Newsday article about the finding of those remains. And within that article is the witnesses, the eyewitnesses stating that we saw a dark colored pickup truck back up to that spot. He, Rex Heuermann at the time owned a dark green Chevy Avalanche, a dark green pickup truck. The article says that police are looking for the owner or driver of a dark colored pickup truck that was seen in the area backing up to this general location within 24 hours of whoever reviewing that online article on that electronic device. On that same computer, somebody is searching for a white or bright blue Chevy Avalanche almost if they need to replace their vehicle because the one they have now is kind of hot because police are looking for it because it was seen in the location where this body was dumped. The intriguing thing there is. I cannot believe, I have a hard time believing. Look, not this guy, of course, but I got a lot of respect for architects. It's not, doesn't seem like it's a job that just anybody could show up to. Right. You have to have a lot of knowledge and schooling and education. Yeah.
- [52:18]
The Captain
Unless your name is George Costanza.
- [52:20]
Nick
Well, he was a fake architect, but as Costanza would tell you, there is no nothing higher. There's no more, there's no more impressive job than architect, maybe city planner. But, but architect is certainly one of the most high level jobs that you can have. So I can't believe, regardless of the amount of spelling errors that this document contains, I don't think that this dude would be dumb enough to go, yeah, I just, I love my Chevy Avalanche so much that I just need to get a different color. Right? That seems like, seems like it's too, too obvious. You would still have the same type of vehicle, just a different color. And then if police get onto you, then they're like, oh, but you replaced your Chevy Avalanche dark colored one with a light colored one. And thankfully he did not replace it because that's how police eventually got onto him in 2022. Was the Chevy avalanche. And his size. He was. He was fought off by a roommate of one of the victims. He's later charged of killing. And that roommate told police in the complaint, hey, I know my roommate went missing. And one of the last times I saw her, she's a sex worker. She had a date is what they call it in the business. She had a meetup, and the guy was this giant, big white dude, ogre type, and he was driving this Chevy avalanche truck. This is a whole different complaint Than the eyewitnesses that the police found canvassing the area with the dark color truck backing up to the area. So what I'm. What I'm getting at is I don't think that he's dumb enough to just go, well, I really love the Chevy avalanche. And I've. I can't get rid of it, But I'll just replace it with a different color one. And then they'll never know that I was the person that backed up and dumped the body there.
- [54:13]
The Captain
Right.
- [54:13]
Nick
You can easily find online the. The way that this thing is built and the reason why this truck is different than other pickup trucks. One can access the bed of the truck from inside the cabin of the truck. That's pretty unique. You don't find that in most pickup trucks. If he is simply looking to get rid of his truck, that puts him at the scene of a dump site by replacing it with the same make and model, but a different color. That to me, tells me that. That the way that that truck is built, the utility of it and the way it operates is. Has something to do with his. The way that he operates. He can't be that dumb. If a pickup truck is what you're after, There's a whole bunch of different makes and models of them. Go get a different make and model, not just a different color. I think when he's talking about takedowns and we. And I suspect he's bringing these victims back to the home, I don't think he's saying, hey, lady, here's this white envelope. Why don't you come back to my house and we'll have some drinks and have a good old time. I think that envelope might be more to just get them in the truck and that the takedown is happening inside the truck because there's a garage on that house. Is he knocking them out somehow inside the truck and slumping? Yeah, slumping them over or pushing them into the bed of the truck without having to get out and being noticeable, Being noticed by anybody, and then transporting them Back. And then guess what? Now you know what? Get close to the house, within a few feet, I hit the button, and that garage door comes open, and I. All I have to do at this point is pull into the garage, hit the button, and close it. And now everything I'm doing is concealed. Nobody in the outside world can see what I'm doing. And keep in mind, the murders he's being charged with all coincide with the travel of his family. His. His family being tr. Traveling at the time and being out of state. So if nobody sees what I do out there, I ain't got to worry about what anybody sees what I do in here, because there ain't nobody in here to see me. So is it thought out? Yes. Was it a plan, a blueprint for murder? Absolutely. Was it executed perfectly? No. He was caught. They make mistakes. Thank God. Criminals make mistakes, and he certainly made mistakes. But remember what we talked about in the beginning of this. There were. There were a lot of persons that didn't do very good investigative work on this case for a handful of years. And part of that, that. That worked against police and worked in his favor was that some of these victims were not discovered for a very long time. Once that task force took over this investigation and had full cooperation with all the jurisdictions and had the help of all those jurisdictions and their great investigators and the FBI and everybody's working together, it took 30 to 60 days to find the name Rex Heuermann. And then they were on him like flies on shit. And they found ways to connect him via those cell phones and then later DNA to these victims. And Captain talked about a few of the different things that have come up more recent in this case since the release of these excerpts of this blueprint for Murder one, it was new charges. When he was initially arrested, he was charged with the murder of three victims, and then a few months later, charged with the fourth, and then a fifth and a sixth, and just days ago, charged with the seventh murder. I actually believe at this point, and. And I believe, for the most part, but not 100%, I believe today that all of these victims that they found, he's probably responsible for. I mean, it seems to be going that way. And unfortunately, some of the victims haven't been identified well.
- [58:22]
The Captain
And like I said, there could be victims out of state as well.
- [58:26]
Nick
Out of state, exactly. That's a good point. He's. The home is up for sale. And not only is the home up for sale, asa, his wife and the two children, grown children, They've. They're not in this home anymore in Massapequa park, they are living in a structure. I've seen it reported as a home. I've seen it reported as a trailer, a mobile home, multiple different ways. But this property, from my understanding, Captain, it's been reported to be as small as 12 acres and possibly as large as 18 or 20 acres. And again, he has a brother. His brother, from the reports I've seen, was already living on this property. So it's, it's 12 to 20 acres that's divided up amongst the family, the Heuerman family. And on that large property as a collective, there's different dwellings. So there was a structure that the, that Rex Heuerman and his family of four would stay in when they would visit South Carolina. But this home, they're not occupying this home currently, the one in Massapequa Park. That home is up for sale and they're staying down in South Carolina. And the captain's concerns are what others have voiced as well is that, does this guy have victims in South Carolina? Was he there long enough? Because it looks like whatever he was doing, it looks like what he's being charged with, he was spending a good amount of time on. Did he have enough time down in South Carolina to carry out one, two or three of these homicides? When we talk about some of the victims that have not potential victims of Rex Hereman, of, of the Long island serial killer that have not have yet to be identified, and that might be the hang up that, that is probably the hang up of not charging him yet. But he was just charged with, with the Valerie Mack homicide just days ago. And the scary thing here is our Gilgo 4 is found in 2010. The earliest homicide that he's now charged with took place in 1993. 16, 17, year difference.
- [60:43]
The Captain
Yeah.
- [60:44]
Nick
In finding the Gilgo Four, the victims that are yet to be, or potential victims, I should say, that are yet to be identified, we still have Peaches, also known as Jane Doe Number three. She's nicknamed Peaches because of a heart shaped peach tattoo on her person. Now, if he were following his own set of rules, if we want to call it that, then I would guess he would have removed that tattoo. And that might be. That might be telling us that this was not him.
- [61:21]
The Captain
Well, that's something that we talked about in the original coverage of this. Is this the act of one killer or does it become a situation where you have one serial killer, that the media alerts him that there's another serial killer out there? And so they feel, hey, I'll use similar methods or similar dumping grounds.
- [61:45]
Nick
Yeah. And we also have the baby doe, who has not been identified yet, but it has been scientifically proven that the that baby doe belongs to Peaches, to Jane Doe number three. So it would stand to reason whoever killed one killed the other. Then we have the Asian doe, who is yet to be identified. This is the. The body of a young Asian person who had died from blunt force trauma was discovered April 4, 2011. This is at Gilgo beach, very close to where the four, the first four sets of remains were discovered just five months prior in December of 2010. The victim is a biological male and was found wearing women's clothing. So it could be crossdresser. Or could it have been somebody that identified as a transgender woman at the time of this homicide? The victim, the best that they can tell so far, Captain, is that this victim was between the ages of 17 and 23, most likely between the height of 5 foot 3 inches tall and 5 foot 9 inches tall, and was ethnically Chinese. They state that the victim had been dead between five and 10 years, approximately. Though we got to remind people at times, that's when they say we believe dead between 5 and 10 years. Don't. Don't let that restrict you in any way because that means that most likely dead between five and 10 years. Well, that would put. If it is the latter, then that takes us back to 2001, approximately, that this victim was killed. We do want to make sure that we point this out before we wrap up here today. Very recently, this was in September of this year that. I love that they're staying on this because identifying this poor person who was victimized and killed by some horrible person is. Yes, is of the utmost importance. They updated the composite sketch of this victim that was originally released in September of 2011. And they updated the information on one what they're hoping to seek from the public as well as the information that they're providing to us. So if you, if anybody, if you just search engine Asian Doe, immediately a lot of information comes up. And our friends over at the national center for Missing and Exploited Children helped with the rendering of the composite sketch computer. Computer image of this victim, what the victim most likely looked like. And one thing that I think is powerful here, Captain, is is that in this new edition that they are including different languages. Right. It's a. It's a help. It's a help wanted flyer. But. But they've now printed this up and have a PDF of it in multiple languages because given the background of this Victim. It's very likely. It could be that this victim moved here from another country and didn't bring any family with them, especially given that age. If it's a youngster, that's like setting out on the world on their own for the first time as a young adult, moved here to go to school, go to university, or just to go to the big city to go to the great state of New York and start a life. This poor victim's family may have been separated from their family member because of distance and have wondered all these years, why hasn't my son, daughter, what have you reached back out to me? Why? We don't know how to get a hold of our loved one. And so we now have this information in different languages. And we also have a computer image of what this individual would have looked like appearing to be a woman. And I think that if we get enough eyes on this, we could finally identify and give a name, give the name back to Asian Doe. And then once we know who this person is, we're going to be able to figure out, does this victim have ties to Rex Herman? Does this victim have ties to any of the other victims that he's been charged with their murders or.
- [66:25]
The Captain
Right.
- [66:26]
Nick
Is this a situation where somebody else may be responsible? Regardless of who's responsible, it's important that we identify this person and give them their name back. One possibility is we do know that a suspect named John Bitro was discussed and discussed not by the public. We're talking discussed by the District Attorney's office. This is because In July of 2014, John Bitroff was charged with the murders of two individuals that were found near where Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor, where some of their remains were later found. And so initially, the district Attorney's office thought that this guy, who was not connected to. So in. In July of 2014, he is charged with their murders, but they were killed one in 93 and one in 94. And this would. This would line up with the 1993 murder that Rex Heuerman was later charged with. But initially they thought Bitroff makes a good suspect. And I agree. But the DNA didn't work. It wasn't his DNA at the scene. So could Asian Doe or Baby Doe or Peaches, could they be a victim of John Bitro? There's still a lot to uncover here, Captain. A lot to uncover. And I don't know if we're going to go to trial with the current seven victims that Rex Hereman's charged with or if we're or if it's going to be a wait and see if there's additional victims before we get to the trial.
- [68:17]
The Captain
Want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week. Such an amazing 2024 and we have you to thank. We'd be nothing without you. Well, well, we'd still have a show, but we would just be talking to each other, to ourselves, like we normally do. But thanks for telling a friend. Thanks for sharing on social media. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, you filthy animals. Until next week.
- [68:47]
Nick
And if you are traveling for the holidays, please be careful out there. Safe travels to all of you. And when you get to your destination, do not be afraid to tell your friends and family to check out your good garage friends. Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas. Be good, be kind, and don't live.