Captain (Co-host) (2:52)

And if you'd like to check out our old episodes, download the stitcher app. And we have a weekly show called off the record. So get hip to that. It's hip to be square. And that's enough of the business.

Nick (Host) (3:03)

All right, captain, everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

Captain (Co-host) (3:16)

Foreign. We're back with part three of Brandon Swanson.

Nick (Host) (3:25)

It's like we never left.

Captain (Co-host) (3:26)

Yeah, some people cover this case in 10 minutes. We covered in 10 hours, 10 episodes.

Nick (Host) (3:33)

So going through these theories here, Captain, we talked about how thinking sideways said it's impossible for alien abduction. You said no time warp, no sasquatch. There are people and I find this a little strange, but it is something that you do have to consider anytime you have a missing person's case is that the individual chooses to be missing, that they decide to walk away from their life.

Captain (Co-host) (4:00)

Yeah. And we both agree in this case, the fact that Brandon seemed to be lost at some point, so he's calling for help from friends, they don't answer. So then he calls and gets a hold of his parents and he's asking for help. Basically.

Nick (Host) (4:13)

Right. And we agree that he didn't walk away from his life based off of his actions leading up to his last known whereabouts.

Captain (Co-host) (4:22)

Right. And there's also.

Nick (Host) (4:23)

It would make zero sense to call mom and dad and decide to walk away that same night.

Captain (Co-host) (4:28)

Yeah. And on top of that, there is no nothing of his past or anything that his family is pointing to that this is a possibility.

Nick (Host) (4:36)

One of the more plausible theories, and this kind of branches into a couple different options here, is that Brandon perished in some type of accident somewhere out there in that night. This theory seems to be, again, one of the more likely ones. Although it's the problem here in this case will continue to be that they've not ever found Brandon. They've never found any evidence of him, clothing, a jacket, shoes, anything of his glasses, his phone, anything like that. But let's get into this theory. Let's break it down. Right. Brandon was disoriented and confused about where he was. That is not a question. He was 20 miles from where he thought he was. We know he got his car stuck in a ditch. We know he was frustrated. Based off of what his parents were saying, he decided to abandon the vehicle. He started walking. He took what he referred to as a more direct route across fields, farmland, off road areas. Terrain he was not familiar with.

Captain (Co-host) (5:44)

Well, not initially. He was staying on the road initially. And then he went off path.

Nick (Host) (5:48)

Correct. He's walking along fences and he states to his father he can hear running water. Meanwhile, what else do we know? He. It's very dark that night. Brandon is blind in one eye. His father heard him exclaim, oh, shit. And then the phone on Brandon's side goes dead. So what happened here?

Captain (Co-host) (6:11)

Well, let's be clear, it doesn't go dead from our knowledge. There's a disconnection, the call drops.

Nick (Host) (6:18)

What? I meant, sorry about that.

Guest or Contributor (6:21)

And.

Nick (Host) (6:21)

And it's just words, but you're right, we need to clear that up because there is a hot debate about if his phone went dead or if it was still active.

Captain (Co-host) (6:32)

Yes.

Nick (Host) (6:32)

After he says, oh, shit, the call ends on Brandon's end. From here, a lot of people say Brandon could have fallen or could have Walked into something, this would be the river, a well, a sinkhole or some other type of obstacle. Let's go through this because I think we can very quickly eliminate some of these possibilities. And this is based off of information that has come out and is pretty wild, you know, readily available. The sinkhole theories have basically been debunked by Jeff Hasse. Remember, he's the search manager that we spoke about who methodically and meticulously was searching for Brandon all these years. He stated that the radius where he calculated that Brandon could have possibly walked from his car and this is even after the call went dead. According to the blog that he maintained that we referenced yesterday, the site's details in the searches conducted for Brandon provide, you know, making these public. He states that sinkholes form in karst or cave geology. Now he also says that the only karst geology in Minnesota is in the southeastern part of the state. The area where Brandon went missing is in the southwestern part of Minnesota. Basically, he's saying he couldn't have fallen into a sinkhole because they're not there. Right. The other thing he points out too, regarding, like wells, open wells and things of that nature on farmland. He points out that the farmland in this area of the country is extremely valuable and that all old wells have been capped off or replaced per Minnesota law. So the days of large wells with buckets that people could fall into, he's saying, are long gone.

Captain (Co-host) (8:32)

Right. They could be capped off. And also in this area, these farmers and these people live in the area would hear about this kid going missing and they'd probably check their property for any signs of Brandon.

Nick (Host) (8:46)

Yes, he's stating that all the water sources on these industrial farms were quote, unquote, high tech by 2008. Now old cisterns could exist, but again, if they do, the searchers have never found one that could leave us with the river. So we have a local woman who participated in the searches for Brandon. She posted that the terrain out there is riddled with swamps, bogs, caves, six foot tall grasslands, wooded areas and ponds. Cattails along the river banks are 8ft tall. At this time of year, Brandon could have walked or fallen into, you know, the river or the swamps or the bogs at any point along this way. His father says, after Brandon says, oh shit, that he heard some type of what he describes as a slipping sound. And we know that the scent dogs tracked Brandon to the actual river and then seem to indicate that he got back out of the river. So this is, goes into what you were talking about earlier Captain, where you have to wonder, is it possible to Brandon fall into the Yellow Medicine river and did something happen to his phone that he. That he even. Maybe he didn't drown in the river, or maybe he did. Maybe he hit his head and drowned in the river. But you also have this theory that maybe he slipped into the river, he gets out, but his phone does not. Then the question is, would his phone continue to ring for a few days even after submerged? Jeff has. He says yes, this is a possibility, that the sound that the caller hears has nothing to do with the condition of the actual phone. So this makes this a very possible thing here, right?

Captain (Co-host) (10:45)

Yeah. And sometimes when you're trying to call somebody, if you don't have great service, your phone will ring multiple times before it actually tries to connect to them.

Nick (Host) (10:54)

Right, Right. So the idea being here that maybe something happened to the phone. Here's. Here's the thing that you really got to consider, right. If he did fall into the river, even if he got out, he very likely could be soaking wet. Then we. He's staggering along the road until he decides to stop and rest somewhere. Maybe this is a hole, a field or in the woods or an abandoned barn. He could have died of hypothermia. Temperatures dropped to 39 degrees that night. We both agreed that he was wearing fairly warmth clothing for that evening. The river was only 55 degrees. Could Brandon have succumbed to the cold, especially if he was wet? His body having not been found yet could be because it was either too obscured or has been scattered by animals, plowed under and broken up by heavy farm equipment. We have to remember that searchers were not able to access all of the farmland in the area, some of which were covered thickly with high, tight crops. There's some interesting things that Jeff has. He states in his information that he's made public when he's talking about, you know, we reference how many dogs they used in the search for Brandon over the years. The problem is at certain times of the years, the. The crops are at different heights. And he says that the height of crops can make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a dog to find the scent.

Captain (Co-host) (12:38)

Right. And it's just hard to search in general when you have obstacles like that. You see that in a case like the Long island serial killer case, Jeff.

Nick (Host) (12:47)

Hassey also states that this region receives nearly constant winds which can come from any direction. These winds move scent from the source and deposit it into what he refers to as scent pools. This can throw off the cadaver dogs, meaning they. They Won't be able to settle on an exact location of the remains. The other possibility too that he points out is that the remains may have been scattered over a wide area. And this could be by predators, you know, such as animals, or that they were moved by human activity, such as farmers tilling their fields or baling hay or corn stalks, something like that. Then again, we also have these access issues. They've not been able to search everywhere that they would like to search. They have been very careful to protect landowners property over the years, generally avoiding searching fields with crops in them. Even though he states there's a very likely chance that Brandon ended up in a field.

Captain (Co-host) (13:50)

Right.

Nick (Host) (13:51)

He states that this. Yeah, this only leaves spring and fall available for them to search. And then we have the difficulty of how much land there is to search. Remember he pointed out that you're prioritizing 98.5 square miles. Yeah, he says a lot of land. Yeah. He says to effectively search a single 160 acre field, a team, a whole team of people must walk in excess of 10 miles in what he says is difficult footing. Along these same lines here, Captain, he points out that not all of the private and owners. Along these same lines here, Captain, Jeff points out that not all of these private landowners have agreed to searches because let's say Brandon attempted to seek shelter from the wind or from the cold.

Captain (Co-host) (14:44)

Right.

Nick (Host) (14:45)

At some point along his journey, maybe he crawls into an outbuilding or under some old machinery and then passes there. He says that they've not searched all of the farmsteads. In fact, they've only searched very few of the farmsteads in the area.

Captain (Co-host) (15:04)

Well, you said there was that radius that they had to search and there's a. What was the percentage like? They've only been able to search about 60%.

Nick (Host) (15:13)

60% of the area that they've prioritized. Yes.

Captain (Co-host) (15:16)

Well, and to go back to the cadaver dogs too, if you have like a small pond of water, but it has a drains into something that the cadaver dogs normally do not hit inside the pond. Like the body could be in the middle of the pond. The cadaver dogs normally hit where the water is draining because that's where the scent is more dominant.

Nick (Host) (15:40)

He also points out the conditions in Minnesota at that time of year. And by his all of his knowledge and all of his experience, it's his opinion that a body could become fully skeletonized within a week. So that's very quick out there. Even calculating that Brandon's body was likely fully disarticulated by mid July of 2008. And he says this would be very likely at the latest.

Captain (Co-host) (16:10)

One of the things that makes this case so much more fascinating is like you've been talking about is the documentation of the search that really changes everything with as far as like the Brandon Lawson case or like even like Mara Murray, like we don't have as detailed records of the searches that happen in those cases.

Nick (Host) (16:34)

Right. And so what is fascinating here and really educating at the same time is all the information about the searches throughout the years, detailed information where we have a complete understanding of. Look, so many, so many shows and so many news articles and so many website forums and message boards, they keep coming back to the idea that something weird had to have happened because they've not found Brandon.

Captain (Co-host) (17:03)

Right.

Nick (Host) (17:04)

The problem here is we have the, the search manager, the guy in charge in his team that is very publicly stating we had this huge area to search. We went over the difficulties of the search or what could have happened throughout the years. Wherever Brandon may be, that adds to the difficulty level of the search. And yet we have them saying there's still almost 40% of the prioritized area that we have not been able to get to.

Captain (Co-host) (17:34)

Yeah. Which is sad because this is somebody's child, this is people's friends, you know, and I understand why some of the places haven't been searched, but it's kind of sad.

Nick (Host) (17:46)

Yes. I mean there's, there's a multitude of reasons why certain areas have not been searched and some of it is just happenstance, some of it is just the lay of the land itself. What do we think happened here? Captain, we could spin our tires all day long on the possibilities and the searches and what has taken place over the course of 11 years or almost, you know, 11 years now, what do we think happened?

Captain (Co-host) (18:12)

Well, well, let's take a quick beer break so we can gather our thoughts and gather some beers.

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Captain (Co-host) (20:34)

All right. Got that. King of beer.

Nick (Host) (20:38)

King of beer. Kings. King of beers.

Captain (Co-host) (20:43)

What did I say?

Nick (Host) (20:44)

I don't know.

Captain (Co-host) (20:46)

I'm looking at my notes and trying to talk at the same time.

Nick (Host) (20:49)

I'm doing the same thing. I'm moving some things around. Would you like to go first, my friend?

Captain (Co-host) (20:54)

Yeah, I can. I think to me it's where does the evidence take us? I think one with this search we will find, you know, with the abandoned car. We're going to find him within this area. I think where the. The initial scent dogs hit into the river. That's the yellow Medicine River.

Nick (Host) (21:20)

Correct.

Captain (Co-host) (21:21)

Where they hit there and then came out of the river. I think they should have just probably stayed in the river. That's what my. What my gut is telling me is the oh shit again. When he was talking to his father, he's saying, I'm along this fence line, I can hear water and then boom. O. We have no signs of foul play, but that does not mean that Further down the line, you know, if the scent dogs just stopped that further down the line, there wouldn't be maybe something. But we have had no reports of that. So I think where the car was, with possibly being tired, I think with possibly being, you know, let's say, buzzed, I think there's some evidence that he had a few drinks, he was frustrated, he was tired, he was walking, he was trying to get help. He was definitely lost or not in the area that he thought he was. I think that area is very easy to be confused, and I think you're going to dive into that more. But I think, like I said, the dogs take us to that area. I think his conversation with his father on the phone points to being in that area, to be around that. That river. We have not found his body. Now, I think that is a leap. Like you said, maybe 60% of this area has been searched, 40 hasn't. So could you find his body somewhere else? Yes, and I understand that they also searched this river. I think it'd be a lot harder to find his body in water in general. So I just think that kind of leads to it. And I know, like I said, I know that's a leap to say, well, we haven't found his body on land, so therefore it puts him into water. But I think there's other. Like I said, those other pieces of evidence kind of points us in the direction that there could have been an accident that happened along that water line.

Nick (Host) (23:27)

Mm. I want to address a few different things that I think are confusing this whole situation. From all of the armchair detectives, all the people on the outside looking in. I think first I want to address the issue of. I'm not totally discrediting or discounting the possibility of foul play, but what I do want to discredit is the thought that because his name is on vicap means that he met with foul play. And people keep going back to that. Well, law enforcement must know something that we don't know because they put him on vicap.

Captain (Co-host) (24:06)

That is a possibility, that they know something that we don't.

Nick (Host) (24:10)

It's definitely a possibility. But looking into that specific situation, what I gathered from the database is that VICAP was alerted of Brandon Swanson's situation on March 5th of 2010, and then it was released to the public as being part of the VICAP database on April 7th of 2010. Now, remember what we reported earlier, that back In March of 2010, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension became the lead investigating agency on the case. New eyes looking at a cold Case. What I'm getting to here, Captain, is it's my thought that the reason that Brandon is on ViCAP is not because there is evidence of foul play or that he was met with violence. It's simply because a new agency took over his case and decided to ask it to be applied to ViCAP as something that it can't hurt to put him on the database. Right.

Captain (Co-host) (25:14)

The only thing that could hurt is the rumor mill.

Nick (Host) (25:18)

And then I also want to address the issue of him being disoriented or, you know, why he got lost, that whole situation. First of all, I question one, how well he would have known any of these areas outside of Route 68 and Route 23. I seriously question that. First of all, how experienced of a driver is he? He's only 19 years old and we have some stories that may indicate that he might have even lost his license at one point. And then people point out that, well, he traveled this route for a full school year to and from Marshall and Camby, where his school was. I take, I take a little issue with that too, because the typical school year at this school is late August to mid May. It's not really a full year one. And they take about a month long break in the middle of the winter. So it's not a full year, first of all. And then second of all, why would he know the areas off of Route 68? Route 68 takes him to and from school. So I really question how well he knew this area. Then on top of that, we have some confusion, confusing things going on regarding the lay of the land. So anybody that has seen this area on a map will know that the streets and the roads, the country roads out there are laid out basically like a square grid.

Captain (Co-host) (26:52)

Yeah, I believe there's a simple version of this map on Wikipedia.

Nick (Host) (26:57)

Yeah, I would encourage anybody to look up that simple version of the map and then use your own map app to really zoom in on some areas and go through that trail that we discussed in detail regarding the dog's movements when they were following or believed to be following Brandon's movements. Now, what you will see here is regarding this map, okay? So picture a square. If you're not looking at it, picture a Square. Route 68 runs diagonally from the northwest corner of that square to the southeast corner of that square. Above Route 68 and below Route 68, you have country roads that are laid out in a grid. Now, north of 68, we have street names and avenue names, such as. They're all kind of numbers. There are some that are named, but the overwhelming majority of them are just numbers, meaning like 360th Street, 280th Avenue, 110th Street, 150th Avenue, so on and so forth. You get what I'm talking about. Now, north of Route 68, all of the numbered roads, if they're going east to west, they are an avenue. If they're going north to south or south to north, they are streets. If you get south of 68, it flip flops where all of the numbered country roads going north to south are avenues and east to west are streets. What I'm getting at here is you would only have to take one wrong turn to end up going the wrong way. If you, let's say you are somewhat familiar with the area and you are aware that, oh, avenues run east to west, streets run north to south. Even though I'm lost, I'm going to use that information to guide me back to where I think I need to get to. Well, if you make one wrong turn, basically take that whole square map that I just described and turn it on its side. Because now the streets are going east to west and the avenues are going north to south. It's a very tricky area. So I completely understand why somebody, anyone, regardless of their situation, how much they've had to drink, how little they've had to drink, what they've ingested or not, would get turned around and confused in this situation. And again, as we pointed out, there are indicators to him that he is right in his statement where he sees, I got to go across a major road, There is a river that runs into that town. I must be where I think I am, right?

Captain (Co-host) (29:50)

And the simple fact of the matter is the people that say, well, he knew this area. Well, he didn't. Because where he told his family he was, he was not. And that's all the proof that you need that he didn't know where he was at. Maybe he does know that area well, but that night, no, he didn't know where he was at.

Nick (Host) (30:12)

The other thing, too, that I think gets in the way of really sorting through all of this is the oh, shit moment, right? So this. This case, oddly enough, made me think back to my childhood. Okay, I'm a child of the 90s. And what I'm talking about here, captain, is the song the things that make you go by CNC Music Factory. This was a 1990 release.

Captain (Co-host) (30:39)

Things that make you go what?

Nick (Host) (30:42)

Don't bother looking up the song. It's as bad as you expect it to be. Okay, now look, this case, of course, this is a tragic case here of this young man, but it's truly a big question mark. And why so many people are fascinated by this case is that it's a big question mark. Now, if you look at the lyrics for that song, the things that make you go, the lyrics in that song is listing out very simply the things that make you go. Now, there are a lot of questions in this case, but what I was really looking at regarding the phone call, he says, oh, shit. And then the phone call ends. I was really thinking to myself, what are the things that would make me go oh, shit? Right? And so we're going to put ourselves in Brandon's shoes here, so to speak. Now, that could have been any number of things. It could have been some type of accident. He could have hurt himself. You know, people, people say a car.

Captain (Co-host) (31:42)

Stepped in a pile of.

Nick (Host) (31:44)

Right, whatever. But the, the problem is the call ends after this takes place. So you can't, you can't just look at this and go, oh, what would make me say oh? What would make me say oh, shit? And then the phone, the phone call ends. You have to put those two things together because that's what took place. Now, of course, it could have been some type of accident. He could have fallen into the river. The river kills his phone. But the other thing, just as simple could be his phone is going to die, right? The phone is losing its charge. It has no battery life left. His phone, according to what you can, the specs that you can find online, has 400 minutes of call time, of talk time. We know that this one phone call, the last phone call, took up 47 minutes of talk time. That's one eighth of the whole battery life right there. Now, on top of that, he's had.

Captain (Co-host) (32:45)

Wasn't a good phone.

Nick (Host) (32:47)

On top of that, he's had multiple.

Guest or Contributor (32:48)

Calls with mom and dad before this last one. He's also gone to two parties that night.

Captain (Co-host) (32:55)

I mean, this phone is basically a rock with antenna.

Guest or Contributor (32:59)

He left his home by all accounts around 6pm that night. So he's been gone. It's now 3 in the morning. He's been gone like nine hours. So what I'm getting at here is car charger, though.

Nick (Host) (33:12)

That's very possible.

Guest or Contributor (33:13)

But what I'm getting at here is it's very likely that he could have been talking and talking and talking, pulled the phone away, looked at the screen and went, oh, shit. Or got some kind of notification that he heard on his end, but his father didn't Hear and goes, oh. And then the phone goes dead simply because the battery life ran out. The thing here is that doesn't get us any closer to what happened to Brandon. But what I'm getting at is what I think is. Is so polarizing about that case. This case is that phone call where I think it's just kind of confusing and it's really clouding the whole situation. The phone call and him saying, oh may mean nothing at all. Could be something super small, something as simple as his phone dying. And then whatever took place took place after he no longer had the use of his phone. I do think that there's some type of accident that took place out there that led to his demise, that he probably did succumb to the elements at some point that evening. And I think it's very likely that he is somewhere in that area that they've been unable to search for any number of reasons. That's 40% of the area. I think that's. I think that's what.

Nick (Host) (34:33)

What happened here.

Guest or Contributor (34:34)

I think everything that the people that are closest to this case are saying is probably exactly what happened. He wasn't that messed up.

Nick (Host) (34:44)

He just.

Guest or Contributor (34:44)

He got disoriented because the area itself is confusing. It's late at night. It's not well marked.

Nick (Host) (34:52)

It's.

Guest or Contributor (34:52)

It would be confusing for anybody traveling in that area.

Captain (Co-host) (34:55)

Right.

Guest or Contributor (34:55)

He tried to turn around because he knew had to go an extra mile or two to get to the next intersection. And he was frustrated and upset that he wasn't home already, and he just wanted to turn around as quickly as possible. And he ran into the bad luck of. Of getting his car hung up in the ditch. And then he ran into further bad luck of having indicators pointing out to him that he may, in fact be where he thinks he is. I think this is just one of those tragic cases. And unfortunately, I've heard statements from his.

Nick (Host) (35:26)

Mother and from his sister that are just heartbreaking, where his mother says, I'm kind of come to the conclusion that we won't find Brandon in my lifetime. And then his sister adds to that by going, I'm starting to think we won't find him in my lifetime.

Captain (Co-host) (35:44)

Yeah. And because even if you take, like I said, my theory, I lean more towards the idea that he ended up in that river. Well, we know what the water can do to bodies and speed up the decomposition of the body. Not to mention the weather out there being a little more extreme and colder weather. And then also, if you're right, that he is somewhere in this 40% that they haven't been able to search. Like you talked about, you have farm equipment. You have, you know, a lot of this machinery that's going to be coming through. You have animals, you. You have the weather. You have all these things stacked up against you to actually find his remains.

Nick (Host) (36:36)

Right. And I, the thing I want to point out here, too, Captain, is, look, I'm sure there's a lot of us out there listening to this and going, well, whatever happened to Brandon would never happen to me. I have GPS on my phone. I have a much different phone than what Brandon had to carry back in 2008. Let's, let's be smarter than that. Let's take this a step further. Put some things in your vehicle, put some safety precautions in your vehicle. Flashlights.

Guest or Contributor (37:07)

Yeah.

Captain (Co-host) (37:08)

And he might have had some.

Nick (Host) (37:09)

He may, he may have, but he.

Captain (Co-host) (37:11)

Was a young kid.

Nick (Host) (37:12)

This, I think this is just a. This was a friendly reminder to me or an unfriendly reminder, however you want to look at it. A reminder to me that it's a good idea to have things like a flashlight, first aid kit, flares, however far you want to take this thing, blankets. Some people put bottles of water in their vehicle. This can happen to any of us. And if you're better prepared, you might have a different outcome.

Captain (Co-host) (37:39)

Yeah. And even though I really think my, my gut feeling is correct, and then even if it's not correct, then I'd lean more towards the idea, okay, well, maybe he made it out of the water and now we just haven't found him that, that 40% that hasn't been searched. I can go with that. One of the things that really makes me ponder this case more is the vehicles left and both doors are open. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Nick (Host) (38:13)

It seems one super strange to me and a bit creepy and scary at the same time. That's the only indicator throughout this whole story that whatever Brandon was telling his father and his mother that something totally different could have been going on. That's the only indicator to me one, one way that I've tried to apply some just very basic logic to why the, the car doors would be open. Obviously, if somebody came along and tried to. Wanted to steal something or look for something of value in the car. That's an obvious thing.

Captain (Co-host) (38:48)

Right.

Nick (Host) (38:49)

But I also wondered if, look, they were trying to use lights earlier in, in this whole thing as a way of finding one another by flashing the lights. Part of me wonders if Brandon, look, we know he was a smart guy. There's nobody disputing that. I wonder if while he's troubleshoot shooting his problem here, if he thought, you know what, I'm going to head off on foot walking northwest towards this town. Yes. I'm going to meet my father there. But he's still under the belief at that time that he is in the area of where his father is searching. Right. So is it possible that he thought, I'll take this a step further and leave the car door open or doors open, this leaving on the light inside of the car that my father might see. So if he doesn't find me, at least he finds the car and I can, we can use that as a landmarker to meet up. So I kind of thought that the only thing that, that that makes. That punches a hole in that thought and theory is that you think this might have been discussed between Brandon and his father and it wasn't as far as we know.

Captain (Co-host) (39:59)

Yeah. It seems that detail to me seems like something that's going to keep this mystery around for a while.

Nick (Host) (40:06)

Right. And his father and mother not only led the search that night and really push to get law enforcement involved as quickly as possible, but they've continued to lead the search for all these years.

Captain (Co-host) (40:20)

Yeah. And all missing children cases are difficult. I think there's an element of the fact that you both were getting up that night to go help him makes it even more difficult.

Nick (Host) (40:34)

Well, and I hope and pray that his mother and sister are wrong in their thought and their belief that they've kind of come to the idea that they may never know what happened to Brandon in. Throughout the course of their lifetime. I hope that they're wrong with that. The family. This has got to be haunting for them. And they've already kind of come to the idea and somewhat accepted the idea that Brandon's very likely no longer with us. But to have some answers would. Would be very big for them in this situation. Now, there is a thing today called Brandon's Law, and this is because of Brandon's parents, Annette and Brian Swanson are responsible for the enactment of Brandon's Law, which became effective in Minnesota on July 1, 2009. This law requires Minnesota police to begin an immediate search for for missing adults under 21 as well as older adults who are missing under suspicious circumstances. And Brandon's situation certainly falls into that. Regardless of what theory you favor or believe. The Swansons have kept the porch light on for their son. They have burned through many light bulbs in the 11 years he has been missing. Brian Swanson has acknowledged that the family likely won't find Brandon alive, but they still want to find him. There has never been a memorial service for Brandon. Brandon's sister is now married, and Brandon now has two nephews, which he has never met. The Swansons want to know what happened to their son.

Guest or Contributor (42:18)

They say, quote, you know, people don't.

Nick (Host) (42:21)

Just vanish into thin air. But it sure seems like he. All right, Captain, before we wrap things up this week, how about a little recommended reading? We have one from our good friend, good friend of the show, Billy Jensen. His new book called Chase Darkness with Me. Captain, you and I hung out with Billy at Crimecon, and he was kind enough to send a couple of copies of Chase Darkness with me to the garage. We can't wait to read it. That's by Billy Jensen. You don't have to write that title down, though, because you can go to truecrimegarage.com click on the recommended page, and we will have that title there for you along with other recommendations.

Captain (Co-host) (43:06)

Yeah, and I think he owed us the book because he thought that Bob Ruff was going to out drink me. But like, we know, like everybody knows, Bob Ruff said good night, therefore disqualifying himself and making me the winner of the drinking contest at Crimecon. So thank you, Billy, and thank you, Bob, for quitting on the drinking contest.

Nick (Host) (43:31)

That's right. All right, until next week. Everybody out there. Be good, be kind, and don't litter.

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