Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (2:43)

Yeah, there's pressure.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (2:44)

So what are your thoughts on suicide?

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (2:46)

And anytime you have a missing person case, this, this is one of the options. I think the difficulty here is, well, we have no evidence that it gets back to his apartment. We have, but we don't have any Evidence that he doesn't. But what we definitely do have evidence of is that he didn't kill himself with inside the apartment. I think the tough thing about this theory is if there's no body, how can you lean towards suicide?

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (3:17)

Yeah, the suicide one is a very difficult one for me to put a high likelihood on. I would keep the percentage pretty low. We've talked about this on the show often. We attempt to understand mental health concerns here on the show the best that we can. And we recognize. The captain and I recognize and have talked about about this, that suicide is a difficult one in any scenario to decide how much weight to put into that idea. And because it can be. And I think oftentimes, far too often, it can be very impulsive. And so just by that nature, impulsivity, that it. It doesn't require a whole lot of evidence or suspicion of that being a potential. Prior to someone committing that act. So it gets very difficult to. How much weight do we put into it? But to analyze Brian's scenario, one thing that I found very interesting from talking with you guys, and one of the things I learned was the thought that he had expressed to at least one person, probably several people, you know, and he may have been joking. I don't know the tone of this statement, but to say, hey, this medical school thing is just something, you know, I thought was going to be a good idea. But. But really it's about my band, you know, my band. If my guitar playing days takes off, then that's what I would really like to be doing. So that, to me, like, almost gives him a buffer from the pressures of those testing and reaching that goal. It almost seems like while his head might have been in it, his heart may not have been in it. So I think that gives him a little bit of a buffer there. I'm with the captain, too. I. I think there would have been evidence as such. I think we would have found Brian. I think that. So I. I don't put a whole lot of. I don't think that's the. The foundation of that theory, I think, is awfully weak.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (5:27)

I think the only strong part of that theory is that Brian did suffer from depression, and he was on Prozac at one point in time. And no one can tell me actually when he went off of it, or if he went off of it with a doctor's help or if he struggled going off the medication. But, you know, going off of a medication cold turkey can cause you to have some issues.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (5:49)

Well, I think his mental state. I think this is more of an examination of his mental state. And I think this is really important because some people say, well, yeah, Brian drank, but he wouldn't have done drugs. Well, maybe Brian that's not super depressed wouldn't do drugs. But maybe Brian in a grieving state, losing his mother maybe would. So that could lead to speculation on what would happen. My other curiosity here would be his mental state. On was there a motivation? Okay, let's just say hypothetically he was in a depressed state. And the idea was, I'm going to go somewhere, an island to Florida, somewhere where there's a beach or whatever, and I'm going to go there maybe with the motivation that I'm going to end things. But once he gets there, decides not to, you have these items like his car. If you were going to go to an airport knowing that you're going to fly somewhere and take your life, you probably really wouldn't care if somebody found your car later. Unless again, and there's no evidence of this that he wanted to go missing. And to make him going missing a spectacle. There's other missing person cases that I've looked into where people have talked about the idea of going missing, but wanting it to be this low, like, romanticized notion of I'm going to go missing and then people are going to wonder what happened to me. I don't think we have any evidence of that. But what we do have evidence of is Brian asking people, hey, would you run away with me? So to me, that goes, okay, well, I would lean more towards him wanting to start a new life or to get rid of an old life. And then the comments about medical school, I kind of wonder. And I had several friends that were going to school for something. Now, obviously in the medical field it would be more difficult, but there's a possibility that Brian got to a certain point in his school career where he's just like, I'm going to finish what I started. That doesn't mean he's going to continue that as a career later. But I think examining this as a. As where he was at mentally, and I think that raises a lot of questions.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (8:24)

So the next theory that I want to go into is that Brian walked away from his life. This is actually one that I read on the Internet a whole lot when I first started looking into Brian's case. But it was one that I actually didn't think was possible. But I can find some possibilities in it now. For every reason that I gave that, you know, Brian would have committed suicide, it also works for Brian Walking away from his life, he was dealing with the stress of his mom passing away. He was dealing with the stress of medical school. There was tension between him and his dad. I mean, there were a lot of reasons that Brian could have wanted to walk away from his life.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (9:04)

Yeah. And some of the questions I have here is like with this lead of the homeless guy out in San Diego, because you don't know again, mental state. If I just go and I'm just trying to get away for a while, at some point you probably will hear that people are looking for you back home and maybe even checking in from time to time. And then again, what, what it was, his mental state. Is it possible, Is it possible? And it's extremely possible that he would then self medicate to try to get away from these feelings and would that self medication lead to him being homeless out in San Diego? I also think this picture of Brian at this party, if it's Brian now, I kind of lean towards. It's not. I think the colonel agrees with me. But it's really hard to see when somebody's wearing just giant Elton John, Jackie Onassis glasses. But is this a picture before he went missing or is this a picture that he went after he went missing? And then the rocker picture, the guy rocking out with the guitar, Is this evidence of Brian starting a new life? I'd have to say no because we have no proof that is Brian. But I think the comments or the question that he asked his girlfriend, would you run away with me? I think that is probably the best evidence that it's possible that he would have wanted to start a new life. And then by his car and everything being there and not taking anything, hey, I'm just going to pack a light book bag and go. And then we have also eyewitnesses that knew him, neighbors that claimed that they saw Brian Schaefer after the night at Ugly Tuna Saluna. So then we also have other tips and eyewitnesses that claim to see somebody that looked like Brian Schaefer in other parts of the world. So I think this is a, this is a possibility. A lot of people have speculated because Brian Schaefer was into the band Pearl Jam, so much into the band that he gets a Pearl Jam tattoo. That is commitment people. But a lot of people have put the Alexander Supertramp story from the movie into the Wild, adapted from the book. That's some wild speculation. I think if you found on his coffee table the book into the Wild, well then maybe you can convince me that Brian Schaefer was like, hey, going to start a new life. I'm going to start calling myself Alexander Super. But. But I think there's pieces of leads and I don't want to say evidence, but there's pieces of leads or pieces of tips that would make that a real possibility. And out of all the missing person cases, again, when you're looking at these missing person cases, there's, oh, did they commit suicide? Did they run away? Was there foul play? These are things that you have to look into. I think out of all the cases I've looked into somebody starting a new life. There's a lot of weight to that idea. Lack of proof, but a lot of weight there.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (12:38)

Let me address my opinion on the photographs of persons who people have said maybe this is Brian Schaefer. I think to put them in order, the one that looks the most like Brian to me is the homeless guy picture. Then maybe the what I think I refer to it as the Superfly Jimmy Snuka rocker photo is probably second, but a distant second. And then the four guys at the, the hanging out or gathering. I, I mean, I think it. I have a very difficult time saying that that looks like Brian to me, but that's just how it hits my eyes. That's just how I see that picture. I know a lot of people have a different opinion on that photograph, but to me, I look at it, stare at it, and I even looking at it now, I don't think it looks like Brian really at all.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (13:28)

So I agree with you on the pictures. But the one thing that's interesting about the party picture where there's four individuals is I think at least two of the guys that are in that picture are two individuals that were at the Ugly Tuna that night Brian went missing. So where the homeless guy. It's just a homeless guy. There's nothing in the picture that tips us off to this could be Brian. And then same way with the Jimmy Fly Snuka rocker picture, nothing tips us off to something in the background that tells us it's Brian Schaefer. But I think the party picture where me and you both agree out of all the pictures, that's the one that looks least like Brian. But the other individuals in the picture. And am I getting that right, Kelly? That two. It's only two of the guys.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (14:23)

Three. Three of the guys in the picture were out with Brian that night. And on his cell phone records.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (14:30)

Yeah. So to me you go, well, at least there's background evidence that that could be Brian Shaver. But. But continue On. On your thoughts on. On Brian starting a new life.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (14:43)

Yeah, that makes. That makes that picture incredibly interesting. But again, to me, it looks so little like Brian that I think. And without somebody saying, hey, people think this is Brian in this picture, I don't think my. My mind would have ever went there just seeing it on my own. But yeah, I think with the. The statement of, hey, will you run away with me? That's like one. Again, he could have just been joking, just could have been having fun. We don't know how serious he was about that statement, but I would put the. Him walking away at a. At a much greater probability than. Than suicide.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (15:22)

And Brian had done a couple things, you know, leading up to his disappearance that could add to the walking away theory. I mean, how many times do we hear it's not illegal for an adult to go missing? Well, if Brian would have had all that debt, it would have been illegal for him to go missing. But paying it off, like a month and a half before he went missing is, you know, that made it so if he did choose to walk away, it was completely legal and he didn't turn in that tuition check for his next term of college. So was he anticipating going back to Ohio State? So the next one we're going to go into is foul play. And I want to start with dying inside the Ugly Tuna, whether it be in the construction area or at the hands of someone inside the bar. I've basically eliminated this theory because, as I've mentioned before, the Ugly Tuna was probably the most thoroughly searched in the Brian Schaeffer disappearance. They had a total of three sets of dogs in there. They took electric panels off the wall. They searched from top to bottom. I just don't see there being any evidence that Brian died inside of the bar.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (16:35)

And there should be video of most of those exits to the building. As far as what we've. You, Kelly, you know, would know this better than I, but CPD has, from what I've reviewed, have been a little cagey on making a definitive statement on exactly where the cameras were and how many there were at the time.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (17:01)

Did.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (17:02)

Do you have other information on that?

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (17:04)

No. Even when described, it's a little confusing, and I feel like the answer has changed a couple times of whether that camera would pan or if it was a constant recording or if it was like basically a burst of photos. So, no, I'm still very confused on the camera myself because the.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (17:23)

For me, and I get it, we don't see him leaving. So that creates a very big problem in Our timeline here for that night in question. But I've always kind of thought if he were. If he were to have been killed in the bar or in that building, that it would have had to have been somebody or someone's with the ability to move him out of there at a later time. I. I think that gets very difficult too. I think that. I think that's almost as difficult as us not seeing him leaving the bar. I don't think he's in the building. I. I think too, when I review some of the statements by. I believe it was statements by Hearst. Some of his statements, I think, imply that he doesn't believe that. That Brian. That he believes 100% that Brian left the building.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (18:21)

Right.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (18:22)

And so when I review those statements, guys, that I'm always intrigued by the investigation. Right. I love to figure out and parse through what police is what they are choosing to say and what they are choosing not to say and try to read between those lines. So with. With statements like that, I have to wonder. My mind jumps to, okay, do they have something telling them that he absolutely did leave and they're holding on to that, or is it as simple as, well, we searched and searched and searched and searched and never found him there. Just his absence is telling us that he left. Because those are two very different things. Right. To have proof positive that he left or to arrive at that conclusion based off of we just never found him in there are two different things. So my. I'm really curious. Do they actually have something that is highly suggestive that he left?

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (19:18)

I think they do. I actually think that Hearst has mentioned a couple exits that they've narrowed it down to based on my communication with him.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (19:27)

Yeah. And so to go over those a little bit, I mean, there's one exit door that had chains on it, but if you push the door open, Hearst, which is a bigger guy, said, well, I could have got through the door because the door was able to open far enough even with the chains on it. And. And Brian was a very slender guy. I think the other problem too here, with some accident happening or some violence happening with inside that bar and him remaining there is this was not like a remote rave location like on a farm that people just never visited. So a weird smell coming from the barn was never noticed. Like, this is a place that was occupied day and night. Again, when we go back to the surveillance footage, what do we see? We see two police officers. Not security guards, police officers. If they saw something, an accident or foul play. You think these guys are just Going to turn the other way like it's some crazy conspiracy. No, it's not going to happen. And then on top of that, the complex has roaming security guards. Security guards that just basically walk and pace through. They walk throughout the bars. Like every bar I played in that complex. In the middle of your set, you just see maybe a security guard come in and just walk through the place. And then you'd see them constantly pacing through the courtyard and walking through the alley and walking the side streets. And then on top of that, the security guards had, like, an office. And what was happening in that office, These security guards were monitoring all different points of surveillance from the office. And like we said that there was a conf. There was a confrontation outside that night. So did that distract them? But can you talk a little bit about how you got the surveillance footage from Columbus pd?

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (21:46)

It was just a public records request that I had sent in, and actually I had sent in multiple. And the first time it came back and it was in the wrong format. And the second time, it was for a different day. And then I was finally able to get the actual disc. I think it took about two months for me to get it right.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (22:05)

So it's not the easiest step. And when I've talked to other Columbus detectives in the missing person unit, I've had conversations with them about other cases, in particular the Tyler Davis case. I just thought, okay, I'm. We just had an hour and a half conversation. Let me just toss it out there. Hey, can I get the surveillance footage? And they're like, well, you got to go through the proper channels. And there's a lot of it, a lot more than you think. And all they give you by going through the proper channels is one angle. And we believe. And I believe. I don't want to say we believe. I want to say I believe. I want to say I believe because I've been to that complex, the Gateway complex, over and over. And going up those escalators, you can see more than one security camera. So why haven't those other angles been released? Like, it wouldn't be that difficult to go. Here's an hour from another angle, because I think that angle, if we could see more of the entrance way of Ugly Tuna, we could see Brian leaving the bar area. That still. You still then have to prove that he got out of the complex. But at least we could prove by, like, a visual evidence that, hey, I. There he is. I can see him leaving instead of going. Turning to his left and going down the escalator or the Steps, he's turning to his right. And now that puts him heading into different directions or different exit directions of that complex. And I think also like with the scent dogs, I've heard that when they had the scent dogs go in there, that the scent dogs then led them out of the building. And not like miles and miles away from the building, but it led them far enough away from the building to go, okay, well, and again, you just, you have to put the weight, you have to determine that yourself, right? If you put a bunch of weight into those scent dogs, then you go, well, they, they showed a trail of him leaving the bar.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (24:22)

And a lot of folks have reference things like insurance or they didn't have proper insurance or people would have been sued. And that's why, you know, he, he died on, in an accident in the building and then somebody covered it up because of fear of a law. First of all, you have to, you would have to prove in a court of law, and I know not everybody's thinking clearly when they do everything every minute of every day, but you would have to prove in a court of law that Brian himself wasn't engaging in any type of reckless behavior at all to win that lawsuit. And it wouldn't just be one outfit that would be sued. It would be all kinds of. I mean, you sue everybody, right? You, you sue, you sue the construction company, you sue the security company, you sue the, the building, you sue whoever owns the land, you sue everybody. So that thought is just not so easy and not so clean. And then Kelly and Captain, have either of you ever spoke to either of the SK CPD officers that were, that was working security that night?

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (25:24)

No, I haven't even been given their names.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (25:27)

And Kelly, you know this from listening to the show. We say this, have said it a million times. Just like with any profession, there are people that are really good at their jobs and people that really suck at their jobs. And so we can't speak to how great of officers these two guys are. But to expand a little bit on something the captain was saying earlier, and I know this from a security perspective and from having worked with a lot of Columbus police officers as contracted security personnel. One thing that I don't think that Joe Public understands when it comes to police and law enforcement outfits, that job in, in many scenarios is the same, very similar to like locker room type mentality, right? Where it's. And maybe other people have experienced this at their officer, at their, where they work, but it's very much a locker room type of feel. And what I mean by that is I would be shocked if these guys haven't heard a joke 100,000 times since that night of oh yeah, glad they hired you for special duty this weekend. Weren't you there that night the guy went missing? Yeah, know that's, that's how these guys kind of talk with each other and joke around like so these guys, even though they didn't do it, you know, they, they did nothing wrong. They have to live with the joke of being poked fun at for the rest of their days of oh yeah, you were there. You were doing such a good job working security there that night that somebody disappeared and has never been seen again.

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Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (29:34)

I think the other thing that's interesting that I have found with searching for information is when I've talked to security guards at the Gateway complex, whether they were working there or not, they have heard stories, have heard rumors or speculation. So it's something that is continued to be talked about 20 years later. But that goes same goes for any individual I've talked to for cpd, whether they're detectives, whether they're just street patrol men, it seems like all of them have at least have heard of the case, have talked to somebody that has worked on the case. So it's something that inside of these groups it hasn't gone away as far as conversation is concerned. Right.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (30:28)

And you know, actually the construction area is talked about so much because it was reported that it was all dug up, that it was treacherous and a lot of people envisioned a dangerous construction site when in all actuality it was a finished building that just needed some finishing in the. On the first floor level.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (30:50)

Yeah. And I would say a lot of the construction that was happening in that area was cosmetic because you have a bar area and then somebody comes in, let's say, like, oh, Jimmy John's. Right. Jimmy John's is just right around the corner from the Ugly Tuna. And so when they get their lease, it's basically a shell. And so if you walked in on the second or third day that they're installing their Jimmy John's, you go, oh, this place is under construction. But that's a. There's a big difference between building a foundation of a building or a foundation for a parking garage or whatever than just doing the cosmetic work that you need to turn this warehouse space into an actual retail establishment or a restaurant. So I think the construction was probably limited. And we, you know, me and Nick went through this post that was made on Facebook about these construction workers and stuff being working that night till like 3 o' clock in the morning. Maybe that's true, but I haven't seen any evidence of it. And we have surveillance footage of those steps. So if there's people just working down, down the way, wouldn't we see any of these construction workers on the surveillance footage?

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (32:23)

We would. Especially the back hallway footage.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (32:25)

So what's another theory that we have here, Kelly?

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (32:29)

So besides Brian being in the walls of the bar, one of the very first Theories that I have ever heard was that Brian was killed by the band and that his body was concealed in an equipment case. Now, I have pretty much eliminated this theory as well, so I don't really have a lot to say on this one because the bar was so tiny. And, I mean, this just isn't plausible to me.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (32:54)

I think we've already talked about how. How foolish this theory is.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (32:59)

Yeah. But again, this is why I think talking about these cases are so important, because it was never released by Columbus PD of who that band was that night. And one of the things that's so fascinating about this case is, like, the Ugly Tuna. I don't know if you remember this or not, Kelly, or. Or what your experience with this was, but I remember looking into this, and this is before you guys put out your comeback series, but I heard from somebody, like, this is like, just like a random conversation. I. I think I was at. At a studio talking to somebody about cases, and they said. And I asked like, hey, do you know who was playing that night? They're like, yeah, I have no clue. But if you go to their calendar, their calendar is still up. But if you go back to March, April, all the information is gone. Now, I know a lot of these event calendars for bars or bands after a certain period, they just go blank. But you could find, like, the calendar like, a month before and a month after. So it was almost like they scrubbed that. And then I talked to an individual that worked at the Ugly Tuna around that time period, and their speculation was that they just deleted it because they were having so many people visit their website. Like. Like, basically our website gets no traffic. This guy goes missing, and now we're getting a ton of traffic. So the reason why this stuff is so important to talk about is. And I'm going to pat ourselves on the back here for a second, Nick, but we talk about this case, which then gets a truck driver interested in looking into this case in his spare time, and he uncovers the name of the band. And then again, that leads to. Okay, so he uncovers that. Well, I know those guys. So, like we've talked about in the previous episodes, I was able to talk to those guys. I was able to talk to, talk to other individuals that were with them there that night. So there would have to be some crazy Columbus cover Band conspiracy.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (35:30)

Columbus Cover Up Band.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (35:32)

Cover up band. Yeah. But, yeah, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. But I think this is why it's important to talk about these cases and share the information, because not all the answers are going to come from law enforcement. Sometimes the answers or the leads come from armchair detectives, come from the Sleuthers.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (35:52)

You know, that calendar of events is still to this day the only one on Wayback Machine that is not available for the ugly tuna saluna.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (36:00)

Yeah, it's bizarre. And it's like weird when you see something and you, the, your gut feeling is that it's wrong. But then your other gut feeling is, yeah, I understand why they did that. I mean, when Brian went missing for maybe a couple weeks, you type in Ohio State student went missing, articles about Brian Shaver came up and eventually it was like buried. If you search Brian Schaefer, yes, of course a bunch of stuff comes up now. YouTube videos and podcasts and, and all this other stuff. But back in the day when you would search Brian Schaefer or Ohio State student going missing, it was buried by all this stuff from the university. And I talked to somebody that worked at the university and they said, yeah, well, it's possible that the university does that, that they pay Google or whatever to scrub the Internet because they don't want parents searching the Ohio State University. And the first thing pops up is a student went missing. You know, medical student goes into a bar and never seen leaving the bar. But so I just. So there's that gut feeling where you go, well, that's wrong, they shouldn't do that. But then there's the other gut feeling where you're like, well, I guess if I was a university, I'd probably do the same thing.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (37:25)

And you know, I've never played in a band, but correct me if I'm wrong, would they even have any equipment big enough to hide a 6 foot 2 inch man?

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (37:35)

Yeah, it all depends on your drum cases. Yeah, so, and it's not the, you know, because some. You could look at a, a kick drum. The average kick drum is 22 inches. And that's like the, I believe, the diameter. Right. So, but then you have the depth of the shell. But if you look at a kick drum, you go, I probably couldn't curl up into a ball and fit into that kick drum. The most annoying thing is when people are searching for answers to their theory. I think you should search for answers and then build a theory based on what you find. So I think this rumor of, well, the band killed him and they put him into something to get him out of the bar without people noticing. Okay. Do you know how much blood there would be if you had to dismember somebody? And so you're going to tell me that this band just happens to know the, the bar staff so well that they go, hey guys, just let us go into the kitchen and dismember this guy and don't worry, we'll clean up all the blood. Okay? So that's pretty far fetched. And I think where people screw up is because they don't know bands. If the drummer had like a hardware case, some hardware cases, they're big enough that I could go into. I could lay down in there. Yeah, I'd have to curl up a little bit, but I could lay down in there and they can latch me up and you never see me leaving on surveillance camera. So then the question becomes, did the band have a hardware case? I don't know that answer. Because drummers change. Sometimes they have a hardware bag, sometimes they have a hardware cart. But again, it just goes back to the idea of are these people capable of doing that? See, now that theory to me makes more sense than oh, well, they killed the guy and dismembered him. But again, what conflict. Then you have all these people and what I was told is it was over 10 people that were out having drinks and watching the band and hanging out with the band. So now you're going to tell me that everybody in the band is sinister killers and everybody that was watching them are also sinister killers. And so I just don't put a lot of weight to that.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (40:20)

I think as far as, you know, when you were talking about making a mess and dismembering someone, it's the same for the trash compactor. And I hear that theory a lot. If, if Brian was killed in the trash, trash compactor, there would have definitely been evidence of it. And CPD did go through that trash compactor.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (40:40)

Well, and it's not just, it's not even just that like the whole look, it's not a crazy theory to think this guy gets so drunk that he just passes out somewhere outside. It's also not that crazy of a theory for some idiot college students to walk by. This kid passed out, or maybe he's just being a drunk idiot and they decide to beat him up and throw him into a dumpster. Everybody that I've talked to that works at landfills tell me it's not. He probably wouldn't even end up in the landfill because of the sorting process. They normally always find the bodies through the sorting process. And again, he's a larger individual as far as height goes. I mean, six, two, that's not, he's not dinky but again, I think that's the reason why we need to revisit these cases. I'm hoping that other podcasters and other YouTube creators that are in the True crime space listen to these episodes, ponder their own questions, and put out those questions or more information that they find out to the community so we can talk about this stuff. Because I talked to Josh Hallmark one time, and Josh Hallmark, for people that don't know, he is the host of True Crime Bullshit, and he does a deep dive. Basically, his show is on Israel Keys. Well, I was talking to him about the Brian Schaefer case because he was fascinated with it. And, hey, you. You're from Columbus. And I asked him what his thoughts were, and the first thing he said to me was the phone call to his girlfriend. The first thing I thought was, he's gay. Josh is gay himself. So I went. I got that vibe, too. When I heard Brian Schaefer's call to his girlfriend. To me, it was like, something doesn't seem right here. We're not detectives, but by talking to individuals and finding out that Brian had gay relationships, and then that was not put out by Columbus pd, but then they were able to at least confirm those. That, to me, puts a whole different spin on this case. Is it possible that Brian was intoxicated? He was flirting with these girls, but is it possible that he was flirting with a guy and that could be motivation for violence against him?

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (43:22)

I think it's very possible. And the bisexual rumor is actually one that I have been able to find some validity to. He, Brian was experimenting with his sexuality. And I know of one confirmed partner, but there are also two rumored that I have not been able to speak to. So I actually do think that that is a possibility, that it could have been a hate crime. Maybe he hit on a straight man or a hookup gone wrong.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (43:51)

I think this is why it's important to find out the pieces of the puzzle. Right. The story has always been Brian Schaefer goes into the bar with his friend Clint and Meredith, and eventually he talks to two random girls. Okay, him. What is the reason that Brian went back to this bar? Everything that we can find from phone records or whatever is that he's going to hang out with these four guys. Who are these four guys? What was their relationship to Brian? Was it a friendship? Was there any romantic possibility? Did they have any business together? I think these are questions I'd love to have answered. And then we also have, again, that photograph. You're telling me that out of the four guys in the photograph, the party photography, that three of them were there the night of the Ugly Tuna. It wouldn't be that hard for any three of these guys to get onto some message board or blog post or whatever to say, hey, I'm the, the, the second guy to the left. And I can confirm that the guy on the far right is not Brian Schaefer. Or I can confirm it is Brian Schaefer. And that picture was actually taken a year before he went missing or whatever. But because these guys have never really came up in conversation, I don't think there's any pressure. And again, they don't have any responsibility to me or to Brian or to ever. So if they just don't want to talk, I guess they don't want to talk. We could get answers to at least one possible lead or one possible curious or mysterious picture. All it takes is one of those guys coming out and saying it is Brian or it isn't Brian. I know who that is. That guy is actually blah, blah, blah. But I think these guys not being talked about is something that has been a disservice to getting answers in this case.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (45:57)

I think not talking about the bisexual aspect is a disservice to the case in general because I don't think we're really hearing who Brian was the whole time. And the story we've heard about Brian isn't accurate. So you know, him struggling with everything else he had going on and being bisexual, it could open up a whole lot of different things.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (46:19)

Yeah, and it makes you wonder too. Like, I think experimenting might not even be the right word. Maybe he's searching for his sexuality and not maybe fully understanding himself. So then you have this thing where you go, well, his girlfriend and other people said, well, Brian, ask her to run away with him again. That doesn't mean that he's, you know, a hundred percent straight white male. But maybe it was just him trying to make a decision. Maybe he was just trying to come to a resolution in his mind. So look, there's been other speculation. It's. I think it's hard when you grow up in, in Columbus because it's such a gay friendly town. I think it was like rated like number two for many years in the country as one of the most gay friendly cities to live in. So I think when you grow up in that type of community and depending again, you know what your, what are your friendships growing up? Did you have a lot of gay friends? Did you have a lot of lesbian friends? So I think it's, it's Hard for me to wrap my head around somebody wanting to start a new life because they wanted to live openly gay. Does that make any sense? It does because just because Columbus was felt like to me, like if, if these magazines are saying that it's one of the best places to live, if you're gay, then you'd go, okay, well then he was in a safe space. But my argument to that would be, but did he feel like he is in a safe space with his brother? Did he feel like he was in a safe space with his father? And there's some people that hide their sexuality for so long because they don't want to disappoint somebody in their family.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (48:33)

Yeah. I can't speak for Derek or Renee, but I can speak to what I've been told about Randy and that he would not have been accepting of this. And he had said that out of his own mouth.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (48:47)

Yeah. And my, my issues are the people that I've got confirmation from. Does doesn't seem like any of the gay relationships that Brian was having, was he being like overly protective or secretive about? So that makes me wonder, I've always wondered the narrative that Brian's dad is telling, is it a true narrative or is it just the narrative that he knows? Or is it a narrative that he's, that he made up in his mind and was trying to present a certain narrative to the world? I don't know. I didn't get a chance to talk with Randy face to face. So I can't tell you how, how I would read that individual.

Nichols (Podcast Host/Co-host) (49:39)

I live in Columbus and I still haven't told my father that I'm gay. So I, I don't know what to put into this thought here, but this one, I think as far as all the theories out there, I think that this is one to, to keep warm and keep examining this one.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (49:57)

Well, and I think the other one is I was told by a detective that they had a lead that Brian wanted to run away, start a new life, and that Brian wanted to become a woman. Now the detective told me there was enough of a lead to try to go down that rabbit hole. And the detective also told me that normally when you have a lead that seems pretty far fetched that you don't get past step one or two, like normally one or two steps and you're going, okay, that lead doesn't seem like it's much of anything. And what he told me was they got through the first initial hurdles of is there any weight to this lead, to this theory? But again, I Don't know if I see any evidence of that. That's not something that's been much a part of my life. So I don't have really anything to go on. But you go just on. On the. The face of the lead, you go, well, it seems like a possibility. If somebody didn't feel like they were born into the right gender, then, well, that would be motivation to leave and start a new life. I can see that. But I did. I don't see the evidence of that, because, like I said, he was. It didn't seem like these gay relationships that he was trying to be protective of or secretive of.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (51:39)

Yeah, I don't think so either, because when Columbus Police Department began interviewing people around the place where him and Clint were roommates together, they kept saying, you know, they were constantly grabbing each other's asses and that it was a little too friendly. And then I. I do want to say as well, that Clint was not the only roommate that lived there. And the confirmed sexual relationship that I know of was actually with the other roommate. So I. I'm not sure that the person they were talking about was Clint when we hear all of those rumors that CPD has said. But there is some validity to Brian and one of his roommates being very close.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (52:26)

I could also see a world where you go, well, there's motivation for him going missing, because sometimes when this type of relationship is happening, one individual is okay with being open to the world about it, and the other individual might not be. Then that person is essentially responsible for keeping a secret for both of them. So if Brian was being more open and not secretive about these relationships, that could be motivation for somebody to want Brian to go missing. And so the information about these gay relationships not coming out 20 years ago, you question, why was that, again, part of his father's narrative to. Because the story has always been, he's going to go to Miami, he's going to propose to his girlfriend, and we have no evidence of that other than him talking to his mom. And I would assume that when your parent is getting to the end of their life and they know it's happening, that these. There might be some conversations of, what. What do you think your future is going to look like? What do you want to have happen? And then as a son or a daughter, that would put you kind of in a tough place, but you'd want to present a positive, well, once I finish medical school, maybe I'll get engaged, and then maybe I'll get married, and maybe I'll have kids or whatever it is, he might have had these thoughts of, I'm going to get done with medical school and go start a rock band. But hey, I'm not going to tell my dying mother that because I don't want her to worry about me. So I just, I don't think we have a lot of evidence that he was going to go to Miami and propose. And I think that also is an argument against possibly him starting a new life. If he was with his girlfriend for a long period of time and it was like all, all of his family members and all of his friends said, hey, it's shitter. Get off the pot time. Right? But it wasn't so it wasn't like he had all this pressure on him to do something once he went on vacation. So I don't know.

Kelly (Podcast Co-host/Investigator) (54:58)

Right? It was a very new relationship. I don't even think it had been nine months.

Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (55:06)

Foreign. Thank everybody for listening. Thanks for telling your mother. Thanks for telling your brother. If you want to join us April 18th at BrewDog to discuss the Brian Shaffer case, tickets are available now@TrueCrimeGarage.com we'd love to meet you, hang out and discuss some true crime. Until the next episode. Be good, be kind, don't litter.

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Host (possibly Nick or Oliver) (56:27)

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