Nick (3:07)

All right everybody gather round, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

Commercial Voice (3:21)

I had A tip come in through messenger and they listed a name of someone that they believe could be involved in Brian's disappearance. And I decided that it was so specific that I would turn it into the Columbus Police Department. And when I was talking to a detective and I said the person's name that was given to me, the detective was very shocked that I even knew that name. And he had been on Columbus Police department's radar since 2006. Kelly then shared on her social media that someone with Columbus police allegedly provided her with more information, including that police dug up a basement in a house near Lane Avenue in relation to Brian's case in 2020. When Brian got a new detective, this person's name came up again. I'm not sure how, but they decided that they were going to go to the location where this person lived in 2006. And when they walked in the house, they noticed that a portion of the concrete in the basement looked different than the rest of the concrete. So they left and they went to a judge and they got a warrant to go and dig up the basement. And when they did, all they found was an old fuel oil tank that had been capped off and then recovered. Columbus police declined to confirm this information with NBC4 or share any further details about Brian's disappearance, stating we will not go into specific case information, but I can tell you this is still an active and ongoing investigation. Investigators continue to receive tips regarding this case and are following up on all tips received, which includes conducting interviews. However, Corbett also shared that key was separately given the same information by someone close to the case.

Nick (5:14)

There was a dig not too far from the Ugly Tuna Saloona in the basement of a place that is believed was resided in by an individual that was with Brian on occasion. Now, that night, can I confirm it? No. The police do know who he is. They have interviewed him at least once, I believe twice. The dig did not really come out with anything.

Commercial Voice (5:37)

While the tip did not result in an arrest in Brian's case, the podcast host believe it could be significant.

Patrick (5:43)

It just breeds more questions because when an individual says, yeah, well we searched that house, well what was the information that got them to get the search warrant? Like you can't just willy nilly go dig up somebody's basement.

Nick (6:00)

In regard to this tip specifically Columbus Police Department, they decided that the tip was worth its weight and they investigated it.

Commercial Voice (6:10)

Patrick, Nick and Kelly hope that their coverage and sharing the information about the basement dig can lead to answers in Brian's case.

Nick (6:19)

We're lucky enough to have a very big Very broad audience.

Patrick (6:22)

The Internet is a powerful place and people will dig into these leads that maybe we've not been able to find much more out about. Somebody else might be able to do that. But if you've only heard 10% of the true story, well then how much can you actually look into?

Nick (6:48)

Well, we did it, Captain. We were successful once again. That's right.

Patrick (6:53)

Crowd goes wild.

Nick (6:54)

Actually, you know, to peel back the curtain here a bit, we set out to do this event which was held in Canal Winchester, Ohio, suburb of Columbus at our, one of our favorite places in central Ohio, Brew dog. It's where they brew all the beer and they have the doghouse where you can stay overnight. And they let us host our event in the beer museum there at the front of the building and it was a sold out crowd. We had hoped when we put this thing together back in February of this year that the turnout would be great and that we would be able to donate $10,000 was our goal to the Porch Light project. Because our audience are beautiful, beautiful listeners.

Patrick (7:45)

Sexy.

Nick (7:46)

Sexy. Some of them nasty. Some of them nasty too. You know who I'm talking to? Subscribers. You nasty, but real nasty.

Patrick (7:55)

But I don't know if this is a great thing to say to our beautiful listeners.

Nick (8:00)

That's right. But because they're so awesome and they care and they are loyal and we are very thankful. We had a great crowd this last weekend here and we're able to double up on what we raised for Porchlight, sending $20,000 to Porchlight for Ohio cold cases. And we are going to be using that for some missing persons cases which is so very fitting because the theme of the night was Brian Schaefer's been missing for 20 years. April 1st. Yeah. In fact marked 20 years since Brian Schaefer, a 27 year old Ohio State medical student went missing from the OSU campus. As said, we did our six part series back in February. So if you've not listened to that, that is the, that is what you want to go back and listen to here. Because I did not realize when we put that out what the aftermath of those podcasts would be. We were hoping to stir the pot and boy did we ever because stirred some shit. That's right. Columb went crazy with the amount of Brian Schaer news coverage from the big news outlets here after our February episodes.

Patrick (9:28)

Well, part of that was the episodes and part of that was the anniversary of him going missing. But also I've been talking with Kelly for over a year now. It's probably been Hundreds of hours that we've talked about things. So it was. It was always interesting to me because I kept on saying that we got to get Kelly on. We're going to talk about the Shaffer case, and she's going to give so many more details and so many more updates of what's been happening for the last 10 years. And we thought maybe one or two episodes turns out to be six. And again, the news coverage, and I have to applaud Kelly for that as well, because we have to go on to the next case. We have to start researching and preparing everything for the next week. So she was just a champion at getting a hold of all those individuals and getting the word out about the podcast and the updates in the case.

Nick (10:21)

Yes. And Kelly was one of the persons that was on our panel at our event. What we have here, Captain, is a lot of people reached out to us because this event was a one time only deal and it was in central Ohio. Not everybody can just put down and stop what they're doing and travel all the way to Ohio to go to this event on a Saturday evening. So we had a lot of folks reach out to us on social, a lot of emails and a lot of people communicating to us that I can't be there, I can't travel to get out there, but I want to witness it or I want to experience it. Can you. Will it be recorded in some form or fashion? And if so, will you be releasing it on the podcast? Well, the recording portion of that would be quite difficult. There was a lot of moving parts and pieces and we would probably have to hire Steven Spielberg to direct the whole thing, to deliver it in a way and package it in a way that would make sense, that it would not. Would not hurt your beautiful earballs. But.

Patrick (11:28)

And to be honest, his work has been kind of shoddy lately.

Nick (11:31)

Well, but we promised those folks that reached out to us that we would not shy away from it and we would at least report on what the takeaways were from the event because we had people there. It was really amazing to me. First off, again, shout out to the beautiful listeners because the. We held a Q A. Yeah. And the questions were great. So to kick things off, first of all, we had four people in the audience of 200 that had never heard of the case. They didn't. They were kind of tag alongs. They've listened to the show a few times, but they were a spouse with the person who was there in attendance. And so we had to bring them up to speed a Little bit. And then we went into a little bit more of the finer points, a lot that we talked about in our February coverage. And then Kelly and her friend Meredith, who together they run the Brian Schaefer Dead or Alive Facebook page. They brought the audience up to speed on things that have transpired since our episodes came out in February because they've had a lot of people reach out to them. There's been a tip that came in that made its way to police and to the news via Kelly. So that's something we should update folks about.

Patrick (12:57)

Yeah. So let's start with the tip. So it's not a new tip, but we talked about this tip in the six part series. There was a lady in 2006 that worked with this individual at a landscaping company. They were at a little gathering. The topic of the Brian Shaffer case came up. It was on everybody's mind, especially people in the campus area. He made a weird comment like, well, he's never going to be found. He takes a sip of his beer and he gives her an odd look. There's other things about him that kind of creeped her out a little bit. And eventually they bring this individual in for questioning. And I think because of that and because of her reaching out to law enforcement, because she reaches out to law enforcement and says, hey, this happened. I don't know if it's anything but there you go. So once they bring them in for questioning, I think that kind of creeped her out even more. So she ends up leaving that job. That's, to me, a significant deal because you're gonna have to get a new job just because you're creeped out by this individual. Now there's more to that story. So Kelly was on the phone with Detective Edwards, which was one of the initial detectives on this case. He was saying that when they were giving the polygraph test to Meredith, that they believed everything that she said. But in this one moment, when they ask her, is there anybody that you think could be responsible for this crime? She said no. And they felt like that was the only answer that she gave, that she wasn't being completely truthful. So, like when we talk to the polygraph expert, you have the interview, then you have the polygraph test, and then you have another interview. Well, that either becomes an interview or it becomes an interrogation. And so they didn't want to press her because again, they believed everything she was saying except for this one answer. Now, all the detectives and everybody working this case, when she said that she didn't believe, when Meredith said that she didn't know who could be responsible. And they, they, again, they indicated that she was being deceptive there. They thought that she was going to then name Clint as somebody being possibly involved. But she didn't say Clint's name. She said this other individual's name. That individual is the same individual that the other tipster gave. And so when we're talking about this tip in the six part series, I thought it was a nothing burger, but when the detective that worked this case is telling, and basically what happened was he said the guy's first name, I think Kelly said his last name. And the, and I'm paraphrasing here, but the detectives basically said like, holy, how do you know that name? And then she explained this other tip. So I don't know if Edwards was privy to this and, and I don't want to go down a crazy conspiracy rabbit hole, but Detective Edwards seemed to be interested in talking and sharing information, even said he was going to try to get the transcripts from the polygraph test. And then he just kind of disappeared. Now people are busy. People have a lot on their plate. He worked this case a long time ago. He's not currently working the case. He has no obligation to follow up on this stuff.

Nick (16:33)

But he may have also run into trouble actually procuring those transcripts. It's very possible, not always entirely up to one individual if something can be one obtained and then two shared.

Patrick (16:48)

Right. And I know that Detective Edwards is retiring soon, so a lot of these detectives will get, I think they have to apply for it, but they can apply to get case files or copies of case files to possibly work on something in retirement. And I think that's something that Detective Edwards is looking forward to doing to be able to get the case files and, and to continue work on this as well as John Hurst, the lead detective on this case, I'm assuming, has got more information or have got case files because he's currently working on a book about the Brian Schaefer case.

Nick (17:32)

So one thing that surprised me and, and please, if this wasn't, if you don't share the same takeaway from our event. But one thing that surprised me was I was getting the vibe from the room that the majority of the people there, look, we all agreed, right? The room, this was, this was a beautiful moment for the case because I don't think that there's ever been a moment like this before in 20 years of Brian Schaefer having been missing.

Patrick (17:59)

Right.

Nick (18:00)

That we had a whole room of people that collectively we agreed we don't know. Right. It's. Everybody has a theory or a thought or suspicions in this case, but we agreed collectively as a room that there isn't enough to, for anybody to find a hill that they're willing to die on. And that it is a mystery for many, many reasons. We simply don't know. But the vibe I got, Captain, was that maybe a large portion of that room, more people in that room than I had anticipated, seem to lean toward the idea that he's walked away.

Patrick (18:39)

Yeah. And just to stay on that tip for a little bit, to me all it does is bring up more questions. How does Meredith know this individual? Was this individual out at the bar that night? If so, I haven't been able to find this individual on surveillance, but it's, it's grainy surveillance at best. And there, there's also multiple exits. So did they possibly leave at it out of a different exit? Also there's a, there's an age gap only by a handful of years. But how did this individual know Brian? And did he know anybody else that was supposed to be there that night? And then the first tip that came in about the weird comment at a party, does this individual know Meredith? And so there's all these questions. I have the name. I did a extensive background check on him. I've talked to several private investigators about him. He's not, I would say, readily available online. There's not a lot of information about him. And I had his number, so I called his number, left three messages. And that, that, look, that's my rule. After three times of him not responding at all, like at some point it becomes harassment. Right. And I'm not in the business of that. And I, I'm just curious because this information could be a big deal or it could just be a lead that they followed that led to nowhere.

Nick (20:12)

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And this is. So there was another tip that came in. And again, with some of these tips, we have to point out that while they're worth reporting here because they are new to the public, but they're not necessarily new to law enforcement in a lot of these cases. And there was the tip about the, the uneven basement, the odd looking basement, a tip that led to police wanting to dig.

Patrick (20:44)

Yeah. And that tip is connected to this tip. So when they, they eventually brought this individual in for questioning, then they did a search of the property that he lived at at the time of the disappearance.

Nick (20:57)

2006. Yep.

Patrick (20:58)

And there's some speculation that maybe there's some cell Phone pings that line up with that location. So they end up doing a search of the house. When they go to the basement, they see some discoloration and maybe some unevenness in the basement. So they end up getting a dig. To me, that seems like a very hard thing to get. But the thing I question, too, is the homeowner might not have fought that too much.

Nick (21:25)

No, from. Actually, from my understanding of this, when they were approached that they agreed that if. If you think it's necessary, law enforcement, we are willing to allow you to. To search and dig and just, hey, make it. Make it like you found it when you leave as. Yeah, you know, and. And.

Patrick (21:48)

But the other.

Nick (21:48)

The other, they find what, like a fuel can? It. It turns out that it was. We can say it was completely nothing, which it absolutely was. But we weren't the ones digging in the basement. It was Columbus pd So they must. Whatever that information was that came into them and then later makes its way to Kelly and the Brian Schaefer Dead or Alive Facebook page. It was worthy enough in law enforcement's mind to pursue and to talk to the current homeowners and then to actively dig.

Patrick (22:22)

Yeah, and this brings up a lot of questions in my mind of. Of did they do any other searches on the property? Because digging up a basement and burying somebody and then laying down concrete would not be the easiest of things. This individual had some knowledge as far as landscaping goes. So did they do any search in the backyard? Did they bring in any special equipment or cadaver dogs or anything of that nature? Because that would be interesting to me.

Nick (22:55)

Well, it'd be easier to dig in the backyard than it would be in the basement. Now, I'm sure, I have the feeling that you are aware of the address of that home. We don't need to say that here. I don't know the. The address, but I do know this. That part of town, that part of Columbus near the campus area, a lot of those homes are. Some of them are very old and were built many, many decades ago. And I do know, with several cases that we've covered, that when you find a case where someone might be buried in the basement or suspicion of somebody being buried in the basement, I actually think of a case that there was somebody located right back then. With these older homes, you did have portions of the basement that were not poured concrete that might be crawl space, like spaces, or that they might be even ground.

Patrick (23:49)

Well, and that's, again, information. I don't know, is this a full basement or is this a half basement? With a crawl space area. It's weird to me. And again, I don't, I don't want to sound like I'm going down this crazy rabbit hole conspiracy theory, but it feels very much by design that somebody quickly reached out after those six part series to give this information to Kelly. And this leads to other questions. Did they, did they reach out to Kelly to try to get this information out to the public? And were they hopeful that she actually shared this individual's name?

Nick (24:29)

Well, that's interesting because what we do know is Columbus PD already had a portion or all of this information.

Patrick (24:38)

Yes, they did.

Nick (24:39)

And so that goes to your question there of what is the motive of the person delivering this information? Is it the same person that delivered this information to police and never received any type of follow up? Or did they think more could be done with this? Did they just wanted to get it out there in the public? The other thing though, back to, you know, you had said that individuals never seen on surveillance footage and it's Grainy foot Brian Schaefer also not seen on that same footage. And one thing that I can say is it looks like every officer with intimate knowledge of this case in this investigation and the search of the Ugly Tuna in the surrounding area, they've all said the same thing. They believe he made it out of there that night. And yet there's no, there's no one ever telling us that they have conclusively spotted him on, on not just the Ugly Tuna or the Gateway Campus building surveillance footage, but on any of the surrounding businesses. Right, Surveillance footage as well.

Patrick (25:52)

There's no business of Brian Schaefer on the business surveillance. Right, but, but it's a weird comment by Detective John Hurst to say his analogy or his explanation of it was we know that 101 people came into the bar and we can account for a hundred of them. And I just don't think that's a true statement because if you watch the surveillance footage, people go down the escalator, people go down the steps, but there's also another exit to the right. And whoever went down that way, nobody would have been seen on surveillance. We also know that there's multiple employees that weren't seen on surveillance and that would be easy to detect because of their uniforms and their, their Ugly Tuna Saluna T shirts, collector's item. And then also we have band members. You would think that we'd see individuals carrying equipment. We don't see that on surveillance as well. This is the part, and I was saying this at the event, I feel like there's a little bit of egg on my face because we've talked about this case several times when I've talked to John Hurst and even in interviews now, he kind of implies that there's reason to believe or some kind of evidence that points to that Brian would have turned right and went out that exit. And that's what I call the elevator exit. But there's another emergency exit right by the bar. Where does that exit go out of? It goes out emergency door or maybe a service door right out the front, right to the courtyard of the gateway. So if you're looking at the Ugly tuna, you're outside the Ugly tuna and you're looking. There's four glass doors. And I don't think they're marked like entrance or exit, but people just normally enter the two right glass doors and leave out of the two left glass doors. If you're looking at the front of the building, you see those four glass doors, but to the right you'll see these service doors or these emergency exit doors. And so it's a very good possibility if he went to the restroom or he went to talk to the band and the bouncers and security are. And we've all been there. It's closing time. They got to herd these individuals like cats out the front exit. Is it possible that he was talking to the band or talking to somebody who gets past that herd of people and decides instead of trying to go through a herd of, of this small crowd, that he's just going to take the emergency exit and walk out the front door? So that is a possibility. But time and time again, the police make assumptions. Or again, I don't know what evidence they have that points them into that direction that he left out of the elevator exit.

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Patrick (30:42)

All right, you beautiful people. You not nasty people. Tall cans in the air.

Nick (30:48)

Yeah. I shouldn't assume that everybody wants to be called nasty.

Patrick (30:51)

Yeah, I mean, I prefer it.

Nick (30:54)

This is where it gets difficult for me to throw up a tall can with excitement because I really sit here 20 years later with the belief that I think that alcohol has clouded a lot of the events of that night. That would be. Maybe this wouldn't be such a big mystery, or maybe we would have some answers if people had answers to give early on. And maybe they didn't because they're out partying that night. They're. The bar is the centerpiece of this mystery. But back to what you were saying before we took our quick beer break there, I think that, okay, so one thing we have here is it seems like, and I don't want to say a unified front because that makes it sound like they had some kind of secret meeting and all agreed that this is what we're going to agree upon, that he made it out that night. But every law enforcement member that I've talked to or every law enforcement individual that has given an interview that I have reviewed, as well as private investigators that have given interviews that I've seen, all of them say the same thing, that they are very much strongly of the belief that Brian Shaver did, in fact make it out of the bar, make it out of the building that night.

Patrick (32:11)

Yeah.

Nick (32:12)

And I, look, I said this when we covered it in February, the first part of this anyway, that I, I question if they, if one of them or all of them or some of them have something that is an indicator that he made it out, something that is telling them that, yes, in fact, he did make it out. Now circle back to that idea of saying that, that your maybe your clue, maybe your evidence, I guess that he did make it out is that you found no evidence that he, that he's still there or that he. Or that he was killed inside of that building.

Patrick (32:51)

Absolutely. And I think the other thing too, and they haven't came out and said this, but with the scent dogs, I think it's my personal opinion that these scent dogs did pick up on a scent and they did follow that scent out of the building and possibly across the street. So again, the lack of evidence of him being there and maybe possible scent dog evidence that lead them out of the building. And again, if he was in drywall or he was in a drop down ceiling, at some point, we're gonna smell you, smell you later. Right. And I did say this for the first time because me and you were interviewed for a possible documentary. I don't know how much we can say about that, but we were interviewed for this documentary and it was one of those times where you say something, it just slips out. But I said, he has every right to go missing. He has every right to go start a new life if he chooses to. But at this point, with all the resources and the time spent, he would kind of be a dickhead.

Nick (34:03)

Oh, you think?

Patrick (34:04)

For not, you know. And I made the joke, well, maybe he'll show up at the event. But again, he has every right to. But especially with people passing away and his family, he could simply make contact with law enforcement. They could close the case, stop the resources that they're using, and stop wasting people's time. And also, we have individuals in this case that people are very suspicious of, like Clint. And I've heard secondhand that he has almost every time the Schaefer story pops up in the news, he, he's getting threats by people through the Internet. And he's not the easiest person to find if he's out there. Kind of, kind of a, kind of a douche canoe if you don't make contact and say Brian Schaefer, that is. Yeah, right, right.

Nick (34:55)

Yeah. And I, I actually said that opening up the event was that, you know, I, I had one of the Pearl Jam Alive T shirts.

Patrick (35:06)

Yeah, very cool.

Nick (35:08)

And, and for two reasons. One, the, the stick man drawing on the, on the front of that T shirt is from one of their concert tours. From one of their tours. That's the same image, the same drawing. That is the tattoo on Brian's arm. So it was cool to show the audience that. And this wasn't anything new that the audience didn't already know, with the exception of those four people that I already mentioned. But it Also says alive. Pearl Jam alive. I had mentioned, you know, I. There is a big part of me that hopes that he is alive. I don't. The part that. The small part of me that crushes that hope is the logical side of me that says it seems to be nearly impossible that he is still alive. But I said if he is still alive, then, then maybe he's just played some really. Turns out that he just played some really sick. He's playing a bad, terrible, horrible joke on all of us. If he was trying to leave to get away from his father or from life in general, who's to say his father passed away two years after Brian left and he's still got a brother here, Derek, who I'm sure would love to have some answers, love to see his brother again.

Patrick (36:26)

Well, that's interesting, though, because so many people in this case have stopped talking. And I get it. I mean, some of these individuals, they've told their story to law enforcement, they've told their story to news outlets, they've told their story to podcasters, they've told their story to Dateline or whoever's making content about Brian Shaver's case. At some point, you just feel like you're regurgitating the same information. I know a lot of individuals, I think it was Meredith. Remember the night that they go to Ugly Tuna. It's Brian Schaefer, Clint and Meredith. Meredith has written statements or given statements that she gave to the police. She has copy those statements and gave to private investigators. So it's no shade if they're not interested in continuing the conversation or regurgitating the same conversation. But so many individuals just have stopped talking with people. And it's nice to have those outlets to reach out to because you can go, well, I got this little tiny piece of information. For example, John Hurst states that there's no history of drug abuse or drug addiction and that that's true, but I'd argue that his mother passed away a few weeks before he goes missing. Is there any. There doesn't have to be a history of it. It could just be a lost weekend. And so does drug use have anything to do with this?

Nick (37:59)

We do have to watch our words, though, because you said that, that he has said that there was no history of drug abuse and no history of drug addiction.

Patrick (38:10)

Right.

Nick (38:10)

I. When if he is choosing his words as carefully as I hope you are, drug use is very much different than abuse and addiction. You see what I mean? Like you. You could, someone could recreationally use a substance or even alcohol or Something of that nature, without it. Without it morphing into abuse or addiction.

Patrick (38:36)

Yeah. And. And several individuals that knew Brian, which. And were friends with Brian, when we've asked them, they go, well, Brian was very careful of what he was putting into his body. And then my response has always been, but not with alcohol, every time they go, well, that's a good point. Multiple bars that he went to that night. We have got information from those bars and employees of those bars that there was employees of the bar selling drugs. And then in the Joey Lebuque case, which was not in the same area, but within miles of the same area, we have sources that say that these bartenders were drugging customers. Like all this customer is kind of being a jerk. We're going to drug them.

Nick (39:25)

So about 9, 10 years difference though, too, on those cases. I'd have to look Joey's case up.

Patrick (39:31)

But yeah, absolutely. But it's. Is it a part of the equation? The other thing about Brian that's I think is really fascinating because there's moments I made a weird bucket list, like years and years ago in my 20s, I believe. But it was just simple stuff like go to a movie by yourself, go out to eat by yourself. And especially when I was traveling a bunch, you might be in a city and you have your other bandmates there, but if they don't want to do something, I was the type of person that would just, well, I'm hungry, but nobody else wants to go eat, so I'm just going to stay in the hotel. Brian was an individual that, hey, I need to get away. I'm going to go away, whether it's for the. The weekend. I'm going to go visit some people at a different college, I'm gonna reconnect with some friends, or I'm just going to go on a little vacation by myself. So what I've been pondering lately, is it possible because he didn't take his guitars, he didn't take certain items that were precious to him. So what I wonder, is it. Is there a possibility that he's like, I'm going to go away on this trip on Monday with my girlfriend. But that's not a solo trip. So is it possible that on Saturday he woke up and he's like, I'm going to go visit somebody, or I'm going to go somewhere, clear my head, get away before I go on this trip with my girlfriend? And is it possible that during that

Nick (41:02)

time you could even give yourself, right, like a full 24, 36 hours before you have to be back and start prepping for your spring break trip with your girlfriend.

Patrick (41:11)

It's not that hard for a guy to pack for a vacation. Right. You're especially, you're going to Miami, you're going to be hitting the beaches, you're going to be going to the hotel pool probably. So most of the time you're going to spend half naked drunk and hopefully wearing your bathing suit. But so is it possible that he left and went somewhere and then heard about him missing and decided to stay gone? Or did he go somewhere to clear his head and then that's where something bad happened? Because there's several people that have told us, hey, Brian was somebody that would kind of disappear when we would go out. Brian was somebody that would also get in confrontations. I mean, you know this more than others. And, and this is not a, this is not a criticism on you at all because I've been at the bars with you when there's a confrontation that happened that was no fault to you. But we all know individuals that for whatever reason, confrontation just follows them. So Brian, I think sometimes was aggressive or just having a good time and sometimes that rubs people the wrong way. So again, if he goes out and he's just going to clear his head, I'm going to be gone for 48 hours and he goes to a bar and gets in a confrontation and. And then something happens to him and it happens somewhere else. So now we, we don't know where that crime scene is.

Nick (42:41)

Yeah, I, you have told me plenty of times and I, I look for the humor in it, but I also never push back because I've, I've had experiences that tell me you are right. You've told me several times that I have a very punchable face.

Patrick (42:59)

Yes.

Nick (42:59)

And I've actually told a few people, like when invited somewhere, I'll go. I don't want to go there. That sounds too risk ski, which. I'm the person that I love going to the dive bar out in the middle of nowhere. I love going to weird, strange places with other people or completely by myself that, that I like adventure. I seek out adventure. And, and for me, adventure is not horseback riding through the wild west. It, it's. It's going to strange places and hoping to meet interesting and unique places, people. But there's places that I just know I can't go or I don't want to go because I've lived long enough and had experiences that tell me I'm walking around with a target on my back. Yeah, I've I've had people that, for whatever reason, and it's only. It's only men that will. Will see me from across the room and decide to engage me in and wrap me up in a confrontation for. For no reason at all other than they spotted me across the room or spotted me and decided, I don't like that guy.

Patrick (44:04)

Yeah. And then, and then there were several times when we're kids that that would happen or it would be. They thought I had a punchable face. And you being the, the protective older brother, said, nah, you want to punch somebody, you're gonna punch me. But look, and I don't know if you still got it. You look like you still got it. But I used to tell people all the time, he might be wiry, but he punches like a goddamn mule, so good luck.

Nick (44:36)

Well, just to expand on that, because it sounds like a dumb statement and some of the times I understand, look, I'm an outgoing person, and sometimes I wake up feeling very happy, go lucky. And so I can be boisterous or whatever, and maybe that, that can rub people the wrong way. However, I've had at least two occasions in my life where I was just accosted for no reason at all just because I happened to be. One time I was in line at the bank and another person in. A male in the line just comes up and starts yelling at me. And I. I didn't even. I didn't look at the guy. I didn't know that he was there until he was in my face and yelling at me. One time I was at a stoplight and a car pulls up next to me and the passenger gets out of the vehicle and starts pounding on my window to my. To my car, telling me to get out of the car. I've never seen this person before in life.

Patrick (45:29)

So.

Nick (45:30)

Look, I don't know that that's what happened to, To Brian here, but. Well, let's circle back to some of the things that. That were discussed at the event, because one thing I found fascinating here, Captain, was there were two people that I was able to confirm.

Patrick (45:45)

Yes.

Nick (45:46)

Were present at the. Either at the campus gateway building that night or in the actual ugly tuna saluna that night that were. That were at our event.

Patrick (46:00)

Yes, I. I do want to give a quick shout out because like I said, so many people in this case just stop talking and that's their right. So I don't want to throw shade on them, but the two girls that were talking with Brian and I'd argue, there's three girls talking to Brian I

Nick (46:17)

would argue that you're right, but there's

Patrick (46:20)

Amber and Bryden, and they've been brought up often. They were not questioned enough, I believe, by law enforcement. I think you. To me, I'd be going, why did he go to the bar? Who was he with? Who did he talk to? Brian was supposed to walk these girls out to their car and didn't. So why weren't they questioned more? But one of the individuals that I've been able to go back to time and time again, and she's so generous of her time, is Brighton. It was so great to meet her. It was. So I'm so glad that she came to the event. It's something that has really bothered her because, one, she was drinking pretty heavily that night. She was having a good time. There's nothing wrong with that. And I think there's parts of that night that she can't fully remember the details. So a lot of the stuff that she's relaying is just what has been relayed to her. And I think that bothers her because I think she feels maybe there's some information inside her that she's not able to unlock, and that would be something tough to struggle with. And she's struggled with anxiety and other things. And for her to put all that aside and to come to the event and help support this great cause, I mean, just amazing. And every time I've reached out to her and have text her or called her, she's so giving of her time and. And it has at least furthered my. My quote, unquote investigation into this case.

Nick (47:54)

Yes. And when you say a couple things with her, when you say that she hasn't been talked to enough, that's not implying that she did something wrong or that she knows of wrongdoing.

Patrick (48:07)

Right.

Nick (48:08)

But it's more of, well, what. But if. If they were able to interview her and others, if they could and did, what could they uncover? What could they cross reference with something one person says with another, and then it may lead them in some direction. Now, Brian's still missing a case that we have coming up that we. We're in the process of putting together for the show that'll be out in days, if not weeks. It is a story where we absolutely know that a homicide occurred. There were multiple witnesses, and we're told not to the news outlets, to us to True Crime Garage by the people that were there. I was interviewed three times, and it's a case now that one could argue might be cold. A cold case homicide. And we're told by several people that were there. I was interviewed three times. I was interviewed at the scene, then I was interviewed at the police department later that evening. And then, oh, they circled back around one more time about two or three weeks later. And it's been X amount of years. I don't want to give too much away. X amount of years. And I've never been talked to again and I don't know why that is. And we're talking about a place in an area that has the fortunate scenario of not having a long list of cold cases in their jurisdiction when you only got a handful. Why not go back and review, review, review, review, talk to these people time and time and time again. And what, what I was going to say regarding the two individuals that were there that night in the vicinity of where Brian Schaefer was, what I found to be really interesting about our event while we were talking about a lot of things that did happen that night and while we were fielding a lot of questions from the audience of what could be, do you know this? What was ever came of that, while we were doing our best with our panel to field those questions. And some of it led down the road of speculation. But at no time did any of those two nor anyone else in the room go, well, that thing that that person said on the panel didn't happen, right? Or that thing that the person said in the audience, that's not true. That never occurred during this event, which was really, truly very interesting to me. And I would have loved to have an event not. Don't hear what I'm not saying because we're never, we're never going to do this. But it, I mean, for every person in that room to voice all of their questions, their suspicions, their theories would have taken an entire day, if not longer. I would have loved to have heard every person in that room. We did get to hear from a lot of them and it was questions. And I thought the panel did a really good job of answering those to the best of our abilities. Now, keep in mind, we didn't, we did not have anybody, while there were persons invited there that were, were from law enforcement that did work the case, that are currently working the case. They were invited by us. They chose not to be there for any number of reasons, but, so we didn't have any law enforcement on the panel, but we had some people that I would regard as experts or having a lot of knowledge in, in these, in the, in these areas, especially with Brian Schaefer's case. Now, James Renner and myself might have been a little less up to speed on the Shaffer case when compared to the. The wonderful ladies from Dead. Dead or Alive. And. And you as well. But.

Patrick (51:48)

Yeah, but what's interesting is, is with the rocker picture.

Nick (51:53)

Yeah.

Patrick (51:53)

Has kind of gone viral. The more I look at that, and the more I look at the hands of the individual, the more I feel like the hands look very similar to Brian's. And so that weirdly gives me hope. The individual that has that picture cropped it out so you can't see the location. I don't. I don't know what to make of that. There's. There's parts of me that understand why. Why that individual do that. There's then parts of me of, why are you holding information back? But back to the. That suspect that they had with the basement dig in one of the interviews. And I've wrestled with this, but in one of the interviews, I did. I, I did say the individual's name. And then I said to the person, I'm going to give you the person's name. It's now in your hands whether you release that or not. Again, I, I think there's part of me that believes that Columbus PD released that information to us or confirmed that information, so. So we would release it. And it's something I struggle with because I'm not a detective. But the other thing that I was harping on at the event is there's a sexuality and possibly identity issue with Brian. And I think that could play a major factor if he was struggling with his sexual identity. Is that a motive for starting a new life? And then also we have confirmed by law enforcement that there was. Well, it's confirmed that he was having gay relationships with friends of his. And some of these individuals now, or even back then lived as a gay man and continue to live their life as a gay man. And I apologize if I'm not speaking correctly on all these terms, but there's also individuals that, with confirmation we know that he had sexual relationships with that are now married and possibly married with children. And so could this been a motive? Were they afraid that this information was going to come out and so would that be a possible motive for making him disappear? I think people shy away from talking about it because I think they are. You have one. I want to be sensitive to people. I don't want to piss anybody off, but I think that's one of the reasons why some of the people aren't talking about this. I mean, like you said, we put out these Six part episodes. And then all of a sudden John Hurst and all these other individuals are doing interviews with news outlets and never once do they bring up his sexuality. Never once do they bring up possibly struggling with his identity. And it's weird to me, it's almost like these interviews were just the same song and dance from 20 years ago. And I, I don't know why people are not just more open and honest about the information in this case.

Nick (55:12)

We also can't say 100% what their findings were. I'm not saying that to dispute what you had just said. I'm just simply saying that in any of these cases, they may not have that same information.

Patrick (55:27)

Or I got the gay relations with friends information from law enforcement, and this was confirmed by Brian's high school girlfriend. I guess they were on again, off again, and at some point he confided in her that he was unfaithful, but he wasn't unfaithful with a woman, he was unfaithful with a man. Then there's a lot of speculation from people. I think that's also why some of these individuals are not talking anymore, because they don't want. Even if Brian didn't have a relationship with them, there's a speculation that he had relationships with friend, with friends of his. And so I think they're, they're afraid to get wrapped up in to that rumor, if that makes any sense.

Nick (56:18)

Well, absolutely. And look, Hearst may feel that he still has strong loyalties to the investigation that he was involved in with Columbus Police Department. Don Corbett may feel that he has strong loyalties to his investigation that he conducted. And a big part of that with Brian's father, Randy. It's. And we do know that some of those interviews were conducted by persons that also interviewed us. Right, right. And that was local news here. And I, from my recall, I don't remember ever being asked those questions. They didn't go down those roads with us, the being the people that interviewed us. So they may just not have brought that up with either of them. And the two of them may have loyalties to those investigations. I, that's one thing that gets a little difficult with what we do here as well is there's times that we are privy to information that's not been released to the public or times that we're even told, do not say this, and if you do, we'll say that you made it up. But it's, it does get a little dicey. And one thing I always tell family members of victims, friends of victims that I'm interviewing and especially law enforcement. The last thing I want to do with putting out a show is muck up somebody's investigation because we hope we sit here and we don't do the show to throw out some juicy story, some salacious, juicy story that, that may be better served up on TV or on the Internet somewhere. We do this to tell the story, to tell these true crime cases, especially the unsolved ones, in hopes that maybe they will be solved someday. And so when we are giving out information, we have to decide if I say this now into the microphone and I let it be released to the world later, I still have to sleep at night. I still have to feel good about what we did and what we put out to the world. And we can't feel that. We can't feel that way if it's complete nonsense, if it's stuff that's just not true, and, or if it's stuff that could potentially mess up an investigation or ruin someone's reputation that, that had no wrongdoing in a situation.

Patrick (58:48)

Yeah, it's very difficult. It's something that when you see law enforcement do an interview and they kind of, they kind of talk trash about podcasters or people with YouTube channels or whatever. And yeah, I could see from the outside looking in that you go, well, they're just podcasters. But the amount of law enforcement that we've talked to, the amount of private detectives that work directly with families, that we've talked to, the family members, the friends, the witnesses, like I said, I, I've spoke with Bryden so much and, and to see how much that has affected her life. And, and I would say in a negative way, this stuff weighs on you. And all I can do going forward is try to be as truthful and authentic with myself. And I. And I do think his sexuality plays a component in this.

Nick (59:51)

And, and so, well, we're talking about, while we're on the subject, I'll throw in my 2 cents on it because you brought this up. And then I, I brought up the idea, well, maybe those folks just weren't asked this in their interviews that they've recently done. Or maybe the interviewer never went down this road with Hearst or Corbett or any number of people that they spoke to. When we recently did some interviews for what could end up being a documentary that's put. What we can say is there is a production team out there, there is a content team out there that is assembling and putting together and interviewing people in regard to missing persons cases. Potentially really honing in on the Brian Schaefer case. But one of the questions I was asked by that interviewer was on the same lines, right? What, what do we know about Brian's sexuality? What and how could that affect the case? Does it have any bearing on the case? And I was a little more hesitant to talk about what do we know about his sexuality? Because this is not stuff that I claim to know. I know what has been said.

Patrick (61:10)

Right.

Nick (61:11)

I, I know what's been. I hate to use the word reported because it sounds like it's been, you know, it's in print somewhere by a, by a credible outfit, but I know what has been said. I don't, I don't have any reason to dispute anything that's been said is what I told the interviewer. But what I did say is it has everything to do with the case. Why? Because it could be suggestive that there's a whole big batch of other group of people to talk to that and those people have not been talked to or have not been interviewed or have not been reached out to because they simply didn't know to do that at the time. So it has a lot, it carries a lot of weight on this case.

Patrick (61:58)

Yeah. And like you said, it's, it's stuff that people have said or has, have implied or people saying that they thought Brian was too touchy feely with certain roommates. Some people thinking that him and Clint were too touchy feely with each other. But I didn't sleep with him, so I can't confirm if he's gay or not. Right. So. And I didn't see anything with my own eyes. I didn't know him. So I can I 100 confirm that. But I'd also to further touch upon that of the touchy feely stuff, a lot of people said, well, Brian, when he'd get drunk, he would get a little aggressive with people. He, he would be a little too touchy feely with people. He was, we all know those individuals. You go out to a bar, you have a couple drinks and your buddy has his arm around you all night. That doesn't mean your buddy's gay.

Nick (62:58)

You can't really, you can't reel any fish in without some bait.

Patrick (63:02)

Well, but the, but the other thing though too is I think, and when he was drinking, he would disappear. So all these things I think play into this. I know that there's more information coming in. I know Kelly is working on trying to get more details of the information she already has. I can't Give details to this. But she has told me that she is signing up to work with a company to do a documentary. That's kind of been her goal. I don't think it was her goal initially, but with the Amy Bradley case getting a documentary and the amount of information that has came to the family and to the private investigator that's working that case, I think when she saw that, I think she was like, you know, what if, if Brian could get a documentary? Because we can see the analytics. I mean, these episodes we did on Brian Schaefer were downloaded well. Right. But. But there's a lot of people within Ohio that are listening to these episodes. And if you get a documentary on Netflix or Peacock or something else, then it, it could be something that goes worldwide. And, and maybe he is playing in some rock cover band down in Key Largo. Right. And, and maybe somebody goes, hey, I know that guy. I go watch him sing Bon Jovi.

Nick (64:33)

Well, and that's what's crazy is the, that, that. Okay, so for the people that listen to the Garage every week, they're going, absolutely. Everybody's heard of this case. That's just the way they feel because it's been part of them for so long.

Patrick (64:46)

Yeah.

Nick (64:47)

And that may be true with a lot of cases out there. I can tell this may sound like a completely strange statement. Trust me. I thought somebody was playing a joke on me when I was in the moment, because it seems so far fetched to me. I was at a crime con within the past two years where a very smart man who had served in the military, served this great country. Thank you for your service, engages me in a conversation and says, hey, have you ever heard of the murder of that kid of JonBenet Ramsey? I said, yeah, everybody knows that case. And he goes, well, I just learned about it last night.

Patrick (65:27)

Right.

Nick (65:28)

This guy was, was smart, up to speed person, person that followed the news. He, for whatever reason, that case had never reached him, never reached his, his conversations that he's had with anybody. And he was so blown away by what he was learning from talking to other people at CrimeCon and some of the things that were presented at the time that he was not a regular listener of our show. He's not really dialed into true crime. He was there as a tag along with somebody. He was, I believe, there possibly with his wife. And he was having a great time being there. And he, he and I got to talking about other stuff and he brought that up and I thought, I thought, oh my God, I've met somebody born and Raised in this country, still living here, that's just heard about this case for the first time this weekend. So still means something. It's still true. And look, we've said this before here too. We live in Columbus. I've gone to bars and overheard people at another table or nearby talking about Brian's case. And I have to go over and walk, walk over and talk to him because I'm just, I want to, I want to hear what that conversation. Do you mind if I listen in or do you mind if I join in on your conversation?

Patrick (66:51)

They punch you in the face.

Nick (66:53)

Because I've had people go, oh, yeah, you remember that guy that went missing from the bar? Yeah, they found that guy. I remember when they found him. And you go, no, didn't happen. And that's, that's just how it is. And it's, it is important to keep these stories going in. A documentary would be great because what would be cool is, you know, when I wrote the Delphi book, I wrote it for the sole purpose of I didn't think the case would ever be solved. I had kind of reserved myself to feeling that way. And the way that I was going to deal with my disappointment in that case was I thought, you know what? I've seen so much incorrect stuff about this case said online and on social media in the past X amount of years. I said, 40 years from now, when this is still unsolved, there may be someone like me who gets intrigued by these old cold cases and starts diving in to Libby and Abby's case. And if they only go with what they can find on the Internet, they're going to have the whole, the whole story is going to be wrong. I just felt that somebody needed to chronicle what happened and, and, and state when they're chronicling what happened or the investigation or their speculation of the investigation. Here's the truth, here's the speculation, and here's the investigation. And just it so that somebody someday, if they find the case and choose to pick it up and choose to get obsessed with it, then they at least can sort through the muck in the mire and figure out what was real and what was speculation at the time. And so a documentary could be a very powerful thing, not just in Brian's case, but in many, many cases.

Patrick (69:03)

Want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage. And a special shout out to everybody that joined us at the live event. It was very humbling. It was such an honor to be a part of it. It might sound a little sappy, but it's to me, one of the best things we've ever done to be able to say that we raised $20,000 for the porch Light project. And if you want to donate to the Porch light project, then you can check out their website where it is

Nick (69:32)

porchlight online.org and so part of that event, we did talk about some of the cases that Porchlight has taken on over the years, some of the successes that Porchlight has had over the years. You can go to porchlightonline.org and there are press releases on there spanning since the genesis of that nonprofit that talk about what cases we took on and why and then the result if we got to a result with it. Some of them are still open and pending. But if you want to know about the cases that we worked and some of the cases that we've talked about at the event, go to the website. And as the captain said, there is a portion of the website that you can access to make a donation if you choose to. And just know that with this type of event, we had to do it live. Why? Because we wanted to sell tickets. We needed to sell tickets. And why? Because we wanted to raise this money to try to make some positive impact on folks that are experiencing what Brian's family, friends and loved ones are experiencing with the loss without having answers of someone being gone. And so we're going to use that money and use it to look at some Ohio missing persons cases. We have a few that we're, we already have pushed to the front of the line that we're going to be reaching out to their family members and the law enforcement agencies, the investigating agencies there next week. And we should have an update very quickly on what will be the first case, first missing persons case that Porchlight will be working with law enforcement in honor of Brian Schaefer and for everything

Patrick (71:22)

true crime, check out truecrimegarage.com and until

Nick (71:26)

next week, be good, be kind.

Patrick (72:06)

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Nick (72:22)

Oh no.

Patrick (72:23)

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