Death Tracks ////// 929

Summary

True Crime Garage – Episode 929: Death Tracks (May 20, 2026)

Main Theme and Purpose

In this episode, hosts Nic and the Captain dive into the chilling case of Michael James Martinez, a 7-year-old Native American boy from Vinita, Oklahoma, whose brutal murder in 1977 remains unsolved. Michael was stabbed repeatedly and placed on railroad tracks, where a passing train further mutilated his body—a tragic crime echoing similar unsolved killings of Native American boys in Arizona the year prior. The episode dissects the investigation, suspects, parallels with other cases, challenges in the case's forensic and legal approaches, and the lasting impact on the community.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to Parallel Cases (03:55 – 10:23)

• Arizona Triple Homicide Recap: Nic opens with a newspaper report about three Gila Indian boys (ages 10-11) murdered and placed on railroad tracks near Phoenix in 1976—crime remains unsolved.
  • Quote (Nic, 03:55): “...they were stabbed to death before their bodies were laid on railroad tracks to be run over by a freight train.”
• Community Reaction: Betsy Green, tribal secretary, comments about the rarity and madness of such a crime, expressing disbelief that a tribal member could be involved.
  • Quote from Newspaper (Nic, 04:50): “‘It’s part of the madness that seems to be occurring all over the world. We have no feeling of hatred. The boys are just gone.’”

2. Michael Martinez: The Victim’s Story (06:40 – 12:52)

• Background: Michael Martinez, a bright, shy first-grader living with his mother in modest circumstances; had just received a new bicycle and $1 from his estranged father.
• Timeline: On the evening of Nov 21, 1977, Michael rode his new bike to a convenience store alone after his mother left him and his brother at his sister Brenda’s house.
  • Quote (Captain, 10:23): “One of the best gifts you can get as a child. New bicycle.”
  • Quote (Nic, 10:27): “Bicycle represents freedom, my friends.”

3. The Suspects: Gary Whistler and Roy Robinson (12:00 – 13:57)

• Profiles: Gary Leroy Whistler, an unstable, unemployed teenager with a history of institutionalization and substance abuse; and Roy Robinson, Brenda’s neighbor, both spent the afternoon drinking and abusing paint in a shed near the train tracks.
  • Quote (Nic, 11:03): “He had drifted in and out of institutions since he was about nine years old...”
  • Quote (Captain, 12:05): “Yeah, these are two typical butt plugs.”

4. The Night of the Crime and Discovery (14:00 – 19:49)

• Events: Between 9 and 9:30PM, Michael is last seen heading to the store. Later, around 10PM, Whistler collapses in Robinson’s shed, asking for help.
• Discovery: At 12:58AM (Nov 22, 1977), a train crew discovers a mutilated small body on the tracks.
  • Evidence at Scene: Paint-soaked bags, a spray paint can, a blood-stained soda bottle, and scattered coins; Michael’s bicycle missing.

5. Investigative Threads and Early Theories (19:49 – 23:59)

• Initial Questions: Was this an accident, hate crime, sexual assault, or random violence?
• Rapid Law Enforcement Response: Local, county, and OSBI teams converge to investigate.
• First Suspect: A transient, Gerald Ray White, is arrested near the tracks but is ultimately ruled out.
  • Quote (Nic, 23:59): “This is where the story steps way outside of the murder of Michael Martinez. So it gets way into the weeds here, but that’s okay because that’s where we live, my friends.”

6. Parallels with the Girl Scout and Arizona Cases (24:23 – 32:46)

• Geographic Context: Mayes County, site of the Girl Scout murders, is adjacent to Vinita; suspicion quickly shifts to fugitive Gene Leroy Hart (ultimately not involved).
• Arizona Link: Detectives flag similarities between Michael’s case and the 1976 Arizona murders (stabbings, bodies placed on train tracks, young Native American boys).

7. The Polygraph Saga: Gerald Ray White (38:19 – 41:58)

• Suspect Processed: Gerald Ray White fails over 20 polygraphs, raising suspicions, but is eventually cleared when found to be a “guilt complex reactor.”
  • Quote (Nick, 41:13): “So when he continues to fail test after test after test after test—well, then, yeah... for this guy, we can’t take these tests serious.”

8. Arrest, Confession, and Legal Proceedings: Gary Whistler (45:08 – 63:15)

• Confession: Four months after the murder, Gary Whistler is arrested during a domestic dispute and signs a hazy, disjointed confession implicating himself.
  • Details in Confession: Claims he was high and hallucinating, remembers grabbing a knife, stabbing in self-defense, and possibly throwing a body and a bike.
  • Quote (Nick, 47:05): “He believed something was after him, so he grabbed a knife and started stabbing to defend himself.”
• Toxicology: Victim has spray paint chemical and alcohol in his system—debate rages over whether Michael sniffed paint voluntarily or was forced.
  • Quote (Captain, 53:46): “Kid takes his new dollar bill with his new bike… runs across one teenager, maybe multiple... They either ask him if he wants to do it, he does it out of fear, or maybe they force him to do it.”

9. Trial Outcomes (56:35 – 67:29)

• First Trial (Oct 1978): Ends in hung jury after conflicting psychiatric testimony, little physical evidence, and contested time-of-death estimates.
• Second Trial (March 1979): Whistler is acquitted; defense successfully argues the confession was unreliable and timeline testimonies don’t align with Whistler as the killer.
  • Quote (Nick, 64:43): “It's really kind of setting the table for a defense of a couple of things: either he's innocent or he's innocent by reason of insanity.”

10. Evidence and Investigative Hurdles (58:23 – 67:59)

• Missing/Botched Evidence: Knife and bicycle found months later; forensic limitations of 1977 hampered the analysis.
  • Quote (Captain, 57:51): “…Because of the time period, if it was today, this’d be probably solved very quickly, and there’d probably be a mountain of evidence.”
• Role of Witnesses: Roy Robinson and his mother’s timeline crucial to defense, but their memory comes months after event and is inherently unreliable.

11. Aftermath and Lasting Impact (67:59 – 72:50)

• Community Trauma: Michael’s funeral draws neighborhood support, but grief is compounded by rumors and shaming of his mother.
• Vigilante Justice: Four months after acquittal, Whistler is attacked with a knife by a Martinez family friend.
• Case Status: Michael’s murder remains unsolved; no one else has ever been charged.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the emotional impact of the crime:
  “This was a community that pulled together and had no clue what the hell had happened. They didn’t know how to deal with this.” (Nick, 43:11)
• On the unreliability of the era (forensics/investigation):
  “I think a lot of the problems in this case is simply the time period.” (Captain, 60:35)
• On the long shadow of unsolved crimes:
  “...the town still has a dead child and no answers to what happened in this horrific case.” (Nick, 41:58)
• On the nature of justice and ambiguity:
  “Can you say 100%...that it was just Gary Leroy Whistler that did this? I don’t think you can, because I think his buddy Roy...looks to be just as guilty.” (Nick, 67:59)
• On the psychology of suspects and confessions:
  “Extremely susceptible to suggestion and coercion...easy to get a confession out of this guy, especially one that's kind of vague.” (Nick, 64:14)

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Important Timeline/Timestamps

• 03:55: Arizona case overview and community quotes
• 06:40: Introduce Michael Martinez and family background
• 10:23: Hosts reflect on childhood freedom/new bikes
• 12:00: Whistler and Robinson’s day of drinking, paint huffing
• 14:00: Michael last seen alive, events leading to the discovery
• 19:49: Initial investigative theories
• 24:23: Connection to Girl Scout Murders and Arizona stabbings
• 38:19: Gerald Ray White’s polygraph saga
• 45:08: Whistler’s arrest, confession, and pre-trial events
• 56:35: First trial details; hung jury outcome
• 63:15: Second trial; acquittal and dueling psychiatrists
• 67:59: Problems with witness reliability and the ultimate acquittal
• 72:50: Call for public tips/case unsolved

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Summary

“Death Tracks” is a meticulously reconstructed, haunting tale of a small town’s trauma after a child’s brutal, senseless murder and the criminal justice system’s inability to close the case. Nic and the Captain blend personal reflection, dark humor, and sharp insight, confronting the failures of 1970s forensics, the unreliability of witness memories, and the sadness of communal and familial grief. Not only do they dissect all major angles of the Martinez case, but they also situate it in the context of broader trends—potential serial crimes along train lines, prejudice against Native Americans, and the pitfalls of polygraph-driven investigations. The episode closes by reminding listeners that the answers—if any—still lie buried under decades of suspicion, rumor, and heartbreak.

If you have information about the case: Contact OSBI at 800-522-8017.

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Tone: Candid, reflective, and empathetic, laced with the hosts’ signature gallows humor and banter.
For more: Visit truecrimegarage.com for updates, archives, and resources.

Transcript

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[Co-host (Captain)]

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[Co-host (Captain)]

Foreign.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me, as always, is a man who you can see live at Go Bananas. Coming soon, here is the Captain.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Go Bananas. More like Go nuts. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Today in the garage we are drinking Remington Gold by the family owned MPH Brewing. Remington Gold is a slightly hopped golden ale. It's potent without being overbearing and it won't pierce the palate. ABV 7.3% garage grade three and three quarter bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good garage friends that we think are absolutely gold. First up, a cheers to Alex in La Pine, Oregon.

[Co-host (Captain)]

And a big we like you jib goes out to Jack Meehan and Reading, Massachusetts.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Next up we have a long distance cheers to Cindy Stevenson in Lori Valley, France. And last but certainly not least, we have Emily from Bidford, Maine. Everyone we mentioned went to truecrimegarage.com and helped us out with this week's beer fund. That went for the beer run and filled up the old garage fridge. And for that we thank you.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah. B W R U N Beer run. Check out truecrimegarage.com click on the merch page. Treat yourself and Colonel, that's enough of the business.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

All right everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Sa.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

The following is from the Arizona Republic. The headline Hunt for Killers of Indian Boys Unsuccessful. The search for suspects in a murder location is continuing without any success in the deaths of three Gila Indian boys. They were stabbed to death before their bodies were laid on railroad tracks to be run over by a freight train. The bodies were discovered at 12:35am on June 1, 1976 by an engineer and two brakemen of Southern Pacific freight train, which struck them as they lay on the track about a quarter mile northeast of the intersection of Wrecker and Rittenhouse roads. The site is 25 miles southeast of Phoenix. The Sheriff's Department's Sergeant Dominic Spazzano said that six deputies are working the case, but they have been unable to turn up any major leads. Quote it's a matter of trying to stumble onto something, like somebody getting arrested or someone stopping the right car and finding blood in it. The victims were identified as Richard Chase Jr. Age 11, his brother Russell, age 10, and David Johns, age 11, all of Blackwater, a reservation town. Spazzano said a missing link is from 10:30pm May 31, when the boys were last seen, until two hours later when the train struck the bodies. He said they were last seen about a mile and a quarter southeast of where they were found. Spazzano said that they were still hoping to get some suggestions and leads from the public. Meanwhile, a relative of the three boys who lives on the reservation called the murder just madness. Mrs. Betsy Green, the tribal secretary for the Gila Indian Reservation Tribal Council, said, quote, it's part of the madness that seems to be occurring all over the world. We have no feeling of hatred. The boys are just gone. Mrs. Green said people on the reservation have all been touched by it because it is not something that normally happens among our people. She says she didn't believe an Indian person is involved in the murders. Quote there isn't anyone I know on the entire reservation who would do anything like this. End quote. These boys were killed on May 31, 1976, and run over by a train just a short time later in the early morning hours of June 1, 1976. And Mrs. Betsy Green is absolutely correct. It is just madness. This is true crime. Garage. On November 21, 1977, the town of Venita, Oklahoma, moved through a Monday with the quiet cadence of a small town. The Missouri, Kansas Texas Railroad, also called the mkt, or even more popularly the Katy, cut behind backyards, threaded beneath bridges and pressed a line of steel through neighborhoods bound by schools, churches and family ties. The town's identity was shaped by its connection to both the Cherokee Nation and its role as a crossroads and the train Rolling through this town was a big part of their daily life. A 70 year old boy lived an ordinary life. A life that by nightfall would be shattered beyond understanding. His name was Michael James Martinez. He was born in February of 1970. At this time, he's a first grader. He's slight, bright and earning A's and B's. He was actually repeating the first grade because of too many absences the prior year. Not because he couldn't keep up with the schoolwork. Teachers found him to be precocious and kind. And neighbors remembered soft eyes beneath heavy black bangs and a shy boy. He was of Native American descent, however, newspapers of the era left his tribal affiliation as unspecified. He lived on East Flint Avenue with his mother, Bonnie Ruth Martinez. Two sisters and two brothers. An older sister, Brenda Easter, lived only a few blocks away. His father, Robert Martinez, lived in Bartlesville, about an hour's drive from Veneta. The family had modest means. Now, that afternoon, that November afternoon, Bonnie planned a night out with some friends. So she sent Michael and his brother to Brenda's house, their older sister's house. Brenda's back fence bordered the Katy line. And her neighbor was a teenager named Roy Robinson. Bonnie's evening out was a rare break for the single mother raising six children, one of them grown by this point. Earlier that day, Robert Jr. And Michael. These are the two boys that go to their older sister's house, to Brenda's house. Their father had given the boys brand new bicycles. A couple of wonderful gifts from their father. But that wasn't all. Each boy also received a crisp, clean $1 bill. So that evening, Michael and brother Robert are doing great. They are living life, loving life, filled with a day on new bicycles. And now hanging out that evening at their big sister's house.

[Co-host (Captain)]

One of the best gifts you can get as a child. New bicycle.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Bicycle represents freedom, my friends. Earlier in Venita, another story was unfolding beside the tracks. Let's introduce another individual that is paramount to our story. This is Gary Leroy Whistler. W H I S L E R. And it will become clear later in our true crime story why I am spelling his name out for you. He's a local teenager, Gary Leroy Whistler. He's unemployed. He's a high school dropout. So not setting the bar too high.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Winner, winner, loser, Dinner.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah. He had drifted in and out of institutions since he was about nine years old. He was going to go over to his buddy's house. This is Roy Robinson's home. Roy was only 17. The two spent the afternoon Together in the shed behind Robinson's house. This is described as a rough outbuilding with an opening toward the railroad, a direction toward the railroad. Whistler reportedly had been sniffing paint before he arrived at Roy Robinson's house. So he's already showing up to Robinson's pretty messed up. And he gets to Roy Robinson's house about 3:30 that afternoon. They settled into the afternoon. They settled into an afternoon of drinking whiskey and inhaling paint fumes together.

[Co-host (Captain)]

So party, party.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Normal Monday afternoon jackass behavior.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, these are two typical butt plugs.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, this is, don't get me started on Roy's mother, but you're like, hey, this is, this is the old, the slightly older kid that you're gonna hang out with. He's unemployed and dropped out of high school. No, no, thank you.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

At approximately 8:45pm Gary and Roy left on foot with the goal of finding more liquor. Previously that day, as said, they were hanging out in the shed together. They were getting messed up. They had gone out one time prior to get some more liquor and paint. Now this time they decide we need to go back out and we're this time we just need to get some liquor.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Like you said, it's 1977. Right. So in their defense, being bored back then was difficult. It was a challenge. Kids today will never understand what being

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

really bored means and probably not good adult supervision here as well. I mean, they're not, they're not out in the middle of the woods somewhere, hiding, hiding under a bridge. They're in Roy Robinson's backyard.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, but it was also a time period where it's like, hey, why don't you go outside and I'm going to lock the door so you can't get back in.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So they go out for liquor. This is roughly about 9pm or so at this point. Somewhere between returning from the store back to Roy's mom's house, the two parted ways. So it sounds like there's multiple reports here. Okay. One report says that Roy stayed outside because he's the younger of the two. The thought was that Gary could get in there and maybe buy some liquor without getting carded because he's the older of the two.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And one report says that Roy was kind of watching through the, the store window or glass door and thought that, oh, the transaction's not going to go down, so he bailed. The other report says that shortly after leaving the store, Roy was ahead of Gary, Thought Gary was following him back to the house and somehow they got separated. Roy makes it home. Gary Doesn't. Whatever the case, that's the scenario. By the time Roy gets home, Roy is home. Gary is not no longer with him. Now let's go to the neighbor's house. Right, Brenda's house. Back at Brenda's house, we have little Michael. He has something that he's very excited about. That $1 bill, a small treasure for a first grader and it is burning a hole in his pocket. He wanted to spend it, not a saver. So he tells his brother, hey, I'm going to go to this nearby convenience store. I think he was trying to convince the brother, but the brother had no interest in going with him. So he tells his brother he's going to ride his new bike a few blocks away to a nearby convenience store. So sometime between 9 and 9:30pm his older brother Robert Jr. Watched Little Michael ride off into the twilight toward a nearby convenience store with that single dollar in his pocket. He was wearing blue jeans, a windbreaker, and he pedaled away on his new maroon 20 inch bicycle. Now one thing we should point out right here, Captain, is as we've already said, we, we have Roy Robinson, the 17 year old. And we said Roy's home is right next door to Brenda Easter's home. Some reports have them living as next door neighbors. Others state that they lived nearby on the same street. But either way, every report states that Brenda's backyard and Robinson's backyard both face the Katy railroad tracks. Now after all this, Gary Whistler disappeared for about an hour. Ish. So a little after 10pm cries are heard from Robinson's backyard. Help me. Help me God help me. Roy steps outside of his home, seeing his buddy Whistler stumbling from the shed holding a half empty fifth of whiskey in his hand. So Roy and his mother Irene, they run out and they help Roy's friend Gary into their house where he collapses on the couch. And both mom and son would later report that Gary slept there until late the very next morning. Until about 11 or 11:30am on November 22, 1977.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, like you said, they've already been drinking. He's huffing paint. And now we have this other half empty bottle.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

It's all good man. It's not like he's got a job or school to go to the next day. Yeah, so that is where that dude is sleeping on the couch until 11 or 11:30 the next morning. Now let's go back in time a little bit here Captain, to the small hours of that same day, November 22, 1977. So at 12:58am A Katy train crossed the bridge between North Van street and North First street at about 15 miles per hour. As the engine rolled through, the crew noticed something on the tracks. By the time they understood what they were seeing, it was too late. Beneath the trestle, Michael's small body had been severed into three parts by the passing train. The crew immediately reported what they had seen. Police officers arrived at the scene to beams of the train lights. What was discovered is within 50ft northeast of the bridge, they found a scatter of objects. They found the boy's body on the tracks. Police acknowledged that this area was a known drug haunt and they were searching this area high and low, looking for any clues or evidence as to why this boy had been placed on the tracks and then passed over by the train.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

When news broke, of course, shock rippled through Vanita. The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, OSBI with Agent Jack Lay among the corps, joined up with Craig County Sheriff's Department and the Veneta Police Department to investigate, search the area, reconstruct Michael's final hours. The manner of death was declared a homicide.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, because I guess the first thing you're gonna ask yourself is, is this just an accident? He got a new bike, he was gonna ride to the convenience store. Did he mistime the train and get hit by the train?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, I could see how one would would think that. But the problem with that equation then becomes the witnesses actually see him on the track prior to the paint, the train passing over him.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

These are the, the crew members of the train and he's just laying there flat on the tracks. At that time, could, could he have been pinned down? Maybe. But he's not show. He was not moving as the train was drawing closer and closer and closer to his body before passing over.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So at the body discovery site, about 50ft from where his body was discovered, authorities found a gold spray paint can, plastic bags with paint inside, a blood stained soda bottle, scattered nickels and dimes. Remember, police already said or at least acknowledge that this area was known as a drug haunt. What they did not find was equally important here. Though they have no clear murder weapon and no sign of Michael's new bicycle. The autopsy takes place the very next day. Michael's remains were autopsied at the state medical examiner's office in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The cause of death was listed as multiple stab wounds. According to the medical examiner's early estimate, the killing took place between 11pm and midnight on November 21, 1977. The murder weapon was determined to be a small blade and the Victim had been stabbed again. And again. Early reports counted 38 stab wounds.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Wow.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Later, the tally settled around 29. So the official report here, captain saying 25 punctures wounds to the head, back and chest. One pierced the heart. Four cuts on Michael's left hand were ruled as defensive wounds. So the, the child's palm lifted against the blade to defend against the blade during the attack. There were no signs of sexual assault.

[Co-host (Captain)]

He.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

His body was left between the rails within blocks of his home, exposed to what would come next. The passing train.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah. So, so many questions. What's the motive? It's probably not money because he's a child. But then you wonder is, is this a sexually motivated crime or possibly did somebody attack him just because of his race?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah. The key here is he, we know what time he left his home. And what you're going to want to determine quickly is did he ever make it to his destination, which he told his brother where he was going. So you're dealing with a small window of time anyway, the, the time in question, that window could get significantly smaller if he doesn't make it to that convenience store. So really what you have here is you have Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. We already mentioned Agent Jack Lay. We have other OSBI personnel working there as well. This is typical for most states, and it's very similar to how we operate here in Ohio, especially during this time period. You have the local, the most local of authorities show up, which would be the Veneta Police Department. And luckily, any big call that they get, I would imagine they're a rather small outfit. Any big call that they're going to get is also going to make its way to the Sheriff's department, who's going to come in and assist and probably just take over, especially in a case like this.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

But both of those outfits are going to call in the biggest and best of resources they have, which is osbi. So we have pretty much all hands on deck rather quickly in this scenario, and immediately we have a great lead. That same day that Michael's body was discovered, I mean, it's truly, it's the middle of the night, but at some point that same day, an unidentified man in his early 30s was arrested near the railroad tracks by Craig county under Sheriff Carol Chaney. So we have a transient that was detained near the tracks by Craig County.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

This is where the story steps way outside of the murder of Michael Martinez. So it gets way into the weeds here, but that's okay because that's where we live, my friends. We Live in the weeds. So, Captain, if you will allow me to pull the audience into the weeds with us.

[Co-host (Captain)]

I thought this was a garage, but now I know after 10 years, actually a building full of weeds.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

It's a garage surrounded by acres of weeds.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Somebody needs to come out here and mow.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So I'm gonna. I want to get into some very dark Oklahoma and then Arizona. True crime history here for a moment.

[Co-host (Captain)]

We're here for it, right?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, very quickly, what we have is hope. You have fear and hope. That's fusing into like a single possibility here for the investigators. Okay, we have a sheriff from Mays County. He's in the city of Veneta. He's there on a cattle theft investigation. And he sees this man that they've detained near the tracks. Of course they. They've detained him because they want to talk to him and question him. What does he know about the murder of this boy? Well, this sheriff says, hey, wait a second. I think that might be who we've been looking for for a long time. Gene Leroy Hart, an escaped prisoner. So, of course, always time and geography are huge, huge factors. So geography, Venita is in Craig County, Oklahoma. Craig county is the second most northeastern county in the state. So it's right up there by Missouri. Just south of Craig county is Mays County. So just five months prior to the murder of Michael Martinez in Craig county, three girls, Lori Farmer, Doris Milner and Michelle Goose, were pulled from their tents, seemingly one by one, and murdered in the woods during the night. This was at Camp Scott. This is the Girl Scout murders. The Oklahoma Girl Scout murders case.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

This took place in Mays county, just one county south of where this case is. So the sheriff, visiting from Mays county, wondered if the detained transient could be Gene Leroy Hart. He's a fugitive accused of the Girl Scout murders. Gene Leroy Hart had been at large since 1973 after escaping from a Mays county jail. But he was known to still be in the area. And he was a natural suspect in the triple murder because he escaped from jail after being convicted of kidnapping and raping two pregnant women.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Jesus, this guy's a monster.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So the authorities from Mays county thought, look, we finally caught up to heart. We found our guy. However quickly, they learn that this was not Gene Leroy Hart. And in fact, it was a guy named Gerald Ray White, a rail riding vagrant. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, some nights I lie awake in bed worrying, worrying about the show, about the podcast. Did I get the details right? Did I mispronounce something. This keeps me awake at night, but I have to remind myself that I was not made to be perfect. So why do I hold myself to such a high standard and scrutinize everything that I say or do? None of us were made to be perfect. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, stuck, anxious or unsure, that's okay. Those feelings are more common than we think. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. A good reminder you don't have to go through those feelings alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand and to support you can make all the difference. Whatever is keeping you up at night, therapy with BetterHelp can help you check in with with yourself and gain support from experienced professionals. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Just take a short questionnaire to identify your needs and Preferences and BetterHelp will handle the initial therapist matching work for you. Feel confident knowing betterhelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the us you don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] garage that's better. H E L P.com garage so many people are focused on where their money is today. Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow. And with the Acorns potential screen, you can find out what your money is capable of. Acorns is easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus investment. Join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com garage or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers, accounts, age and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any ACORNS portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. View Important [e-mail] garage this message is sponsored by Greenlight. Every true crime story has money somewhere in the mix. Financial stress pushes people to make desperate decisions and a lack of financial literacy is what makes people an easy target. Teaching your kids about money isn't just smart parenting, it's Protection. Greenlight helps keep your family's financial and personal safety from becoming another cautionary tale. What is Greenlight? Greenlight is a debit card and app for families. But it's more than a money tool. It's a safety net for teaching kids about money while also helping protect them before bad habits, bad actors and and real world risk take hold. Let me tell you a true story. When I was a youngster for two years I spent all of my money on basketball cards. They are now worth nothing. I got ripped off. And then there's that time at the ballpark when I handed the vendor a very large bill only to get shortchanged. Was it an honest mistake or was I taken advantage of? A debit card would have solved that problem. For more protection with funds and to make sure that your kids are spending wisely, it's greenlight. Every day they're handling money without guidance is a missed opportunity. Start your risk free Greenlight trial [e-mail] garage. Don't wait to teach your kids real world money skills. That's greenlight.com garage to get started greenlight.com

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[Co-host (Captain)]

All right, we are back talk. Hands in the air. True crime nerds, mount up.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Cheers. Captain. When we left off, we were talking a little bit about the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. And longtime listeners of this show will remember that we covered that case back in December of 2018 in a three part series. Yeah, and that is episodes 265, 266 and 267 on your garage radio dial. So where we are now, we figure out that this dude is not Gene Leroy Hart. He's a train hopping hobo. It's Gerald Ray White.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, but just because you're train hopping doesn't mean you're a murderer of children.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, he's in the area. Yeah, and that makes him a better suspect than most or at least somebody that they need to talk to. Now this is going to lead investigators to believe that perhaps this dude who hops trains in multiple states that is picked up near the tracks where we find A homicide victim. Maybe he's the perpetrator of another triple homicide. The one that we described in the trailer at the top of today's show. A case where three boys were killed and then placed on the railroad tracks so that the bodies could be destroyed. That case out of Arizona in just a year and a few months prior. So this Gerald Ray White, who has no home and travels alone, naturally has no alibi for the night in question. Right. Because we only have a short window again to deal with here as investigators. Michael leaves sometime between 9 and 9:30pm and then the train passes over him just before 1am so White was questioned not only about Michael's murder, but also about the May 1976 triple homicide in Arizona that shared unnerving similarities. And of course the railroad track signature. Let me read this from the Tulsa World News. Yes, and I'll take some bits and pieces of it here. A 35 year old man described as a transient is being held in the deaths of four Indian boys. He's being questioned in the stabbing of a victim that was found here. So they're referencing Vanita, Oklahoma, but he's also being questioned in the stabbing of three victims found near Chandler, Arizona.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And so they brought in two investigators from Maricopa, Arizona and they have local authorities there as well. Per the article questioning Gerald Ray White in the deaths of Michael James Martinez and then three boys from May 31, 1976 in Arizona. All the victims bodies were placed on railroad tracks after the slayings and run over by trains. White was arrested a day after Martinez boy's body was found. Officers said the boy had been stabbed several times before the body was placed on the tracks. They go on to say that he is the sort of transient who rides the rails from Bakersfield, California to the state of Missouri. The detectives said that he has relatives in California and Missouri, Arizona officers flew to Oklahoma after learning of the similarities in the slangs. And these are, these are their words and I'm taking their words from the articles. It says, quote, you have four young Indian males, you have them all dead of multiple stab wounds. They are all apparently robbed. They were all killed at night and whoever killed them placed their bodies on the train tracks, said Detective K. Lines of Arizona. They were all run over too, says K. Lines. They did say that. The article does say, Captain, that White has not been charged but did appear before a judge and was being held under $250 bail. So this is a guy that you can put him, or at least he has the ability to have Been in both locations. And you hear the similarities in the crimes. Those three boys, unfortunately, were all killed that night, May 31, 1976. The similarities being that they were. They were younger. They. They were on the younger side, but they were all older than our Martinez victim here in Oklahoma. But they were stabbed and placed on the tracks and left there. And then Martinez, what we do know is he was stabbed and killed and then placed on the tracks as well. And. And this would be somebody that would hop on a train, ride into a. To a town, or ride somewhere, and then hop off and wait to catch the next one and then make his way back and forth between these two different locations, California and Missouri. So when they bring this Gerald Ray White in for questioning, he immediately fails two polygraph exams.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Not good. So liar, pants on fire.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

It's looking more and more like they have their guy. Now, as they continue to look into this guy, he goes on to fail as many as 20 more polygraph examinations over the course of four days.

[Co-host (Captain)]

But also, the problem with this is what is this guy's mental state? I mean, he is riding the rails. Is he riding the rails because he's just a man full of adventure, or is there something going on with him mentally?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Here's what I'm picking up here, that. Have we ever done a case where we hear that they administer 22 polygraph examinations in the course of four days? Or if. Or if I'm reading this wrong, 20, right. Polygraph examinations. Usually when somebody fails one, they might give them one or two more, maybe three at most. But at some point, they arrest the guy and charge him.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

That's not what they're doing here. They just keep giving him polygraph examinations. I think this is. To me, this is tipping me off that it's something that you were talking about, that something is telling them there's something not right with this guy.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Well, and do they administer a test where they know all the answers he is giving them are correct, but still failing the test?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So that. You're exactly right. You are exact. Meanwhile, he's probably sitting there in the room like, man, these tests are really hard. I failed 20 of them. Now, so what they conclude what investigators conclude. And look, we hear so many cases where this goes the opposite way, right? Guy failed a bunch of polygraph examinations. He's got no alibi. He's some bum that's been riding the rails. Lock him up, convict him, sentence him to death for the murders of four little boys, and then he's killed. Right? The. The state kills him, one of these two states execute him. So kudos to these investigators that didn't, didn't jump to that conclusion and did their due diligence. Because what they conclude is that he was a, quote, guilt complex reactor, Someone whose physiology mimics guilt without culpability. So someone who reacts as though they have guilty knowledge, even though they do not. Meaning exactly what you're saying. When they start to detect, like, hey, maybe this guy, there's something wrong with him and we just have the wrong guy, they start giving him tests that include questions of things that they know he cannot be guilty about or things that he could not be lying about.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And so when he continues to fail test after test after test after test,

[Co-host (Captain)]

well, then, yeah, right, then you have to go. And it's not saying that lie detector test are complete, but we're saying for this guy, for this guy, we can't take, we can't take these tests serious.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

This should be an Abbott and Costello bit where you're questioning the guy. He keeps failing the L detector test. And then, and, and the one guy goes, man, are you sure that machines. I keep failing these tests, man. I. These tests are hard. Are you sure it's working right? You sure your machine's not broken? And the detectives like, well, we figured out you're broken, so yeah, yeah, we figured out you're the broke.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Another butt plug in the story.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So he gets out. They, they, they rule and determine that this guy, it's. He's not our guy, and they actually clear him and rule him out as being a viable suspect. Now, of course, the case doesn't close. The town still has a dead child and no answers to what happened in this horrific case. Now, a few days after Michael's body was discovered, funeral services were held for Michael James Martinez at Ribbon Indian Church in Spav, Oklahoma. We have scores of family, friends, classmates and neighbors who attended afterward. He's buried in Ribbon, Indiana. Sorry, he's buried in Ribbon Indian Cemetery. The community, the. These old stories, they almost seem like something that didn't happen. You know, when we look back so many years after the fact, this would be close to 50 years ago now. And even the way that some of the newspaper accounts of these cases read, it doesn't seem real in some way. This was very much real, man. This was, this was a community that pulled together and had no clue what the hell had happened. They didn't, they didn't know how to deal with this. The community, they're trying. I mean, for the most part, they're Performing the rituals at the ceremony of a, of a murdered 7 year old, holding hands, saying prayers together, all while knowing that the killer had not been named in any final way. And the manner of death was so violent. This has got to have a fear factor of nine or 10 in it. It almost feels a little bit more like a warning rather than a crime. Eight days after the killing. So he was killed late November. This puts us at November 29th. Officers found Michael's maroon 20 inch bicycle tossed into high weeds about 25ft off of the railroad tracks. This would be actually about three blocks from the bridge. And the bridge area is about where he, he was run over.

[Co-host (Captain)]

That was another question that I had. Is motive, right? Is this a racial thing? Is it a sexual thing? Is it just I'm on drugs so I'm going to kill you thing or what does this kid have? He has a new bicycle, so that would have value but like you said, freedom. So if you have an individual, whether they're a teenager or adult, that's transportation. So if you're walking down the road and you stumble upon this kid, you go, well I'll take this bike and my walk becomes a lot faster.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Co-host (Captain)]

But once you find the bike, then you go, well that, that's probably not what happened. Unless the person came back and dumped the bike later.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes, and I apologize, not everybody is cool with the term Indian. But I'm reporting this as I prefer to say Native American.

[Co-host (Captain)]

But, but you're reading the reports.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

I'm the reports at the time that that is the word, the terminology that would have been used back then and was used back then. So what we end up with here, Captain, this would take us months later. So now we're into March of 1978. We have 14 year old Daryl Scott. He found a small pocket knife near the crime scene. He turns it over to police. Its dimensions matched the wounds or at least could be the murder weapon. They never say that this is, is the murder weapon, but it is consistent with a weapon that did the, did the job here. And it bore no fingerprints linking to anybody. But this would make sense if it were to be the murder weapon. It's been sitting outside for the course of roughly four months. But by this time the investigation had already taken a big pivot and that was because on February 8, 1978, police arrested 19 year old Gary Leroy Whistler after his father Jerry reported a domestic disturbance involving his son Gary. Gary. So according to the report, Gary Whistler appeared high and panicked when police arrived at the home and he was hallucinating, saying that there were men that were trying to kill him. His father telling police like he, he started freaking out at some point talking about these men who were trying to kill him. And he started behaving very, not just erratically but very violently. So he's in custody, getting picked up for this domestic disturbance. That's on February, February 8th. On February 10th, while still in custody, he signs a statement in the presence of Undersheriff Cheney, OSBI agent Jack Lay and District Attorney Secretary Ann Williams. The statement did not name Michael Martinez and it did not include a date. It was really like a hazy, disjointed, I guess more of an impression than a confession. But it was regarded as a confession to the murder of little Michael Martinez. In this signed document, Whistler said that he remembered being at the railroad trestle, drinking and sniffing paint. He believed something was after him, so he grabbed a knife and started stabbing to defend himself. He recalled throwing something on the tracks. He said maybe it could have been a body, but he didn't remember what it was and tossing a knife away. He says he also remembered picking up a bicycle and throwing it into a field before returning to his friend Roy Robinson's backyard and going into the shed. This is. Look, I don't know if police pushed him into this confession or if he was completely blurred by intoxication or if he's just trying to hide the absolute truth here. But regardless, this signed document will lead to prosecutors charging him with the first degree murder of seven year old Michael Martinez. They did hold a preliminary hearing on March 29, 1978. And after that, with this contained testimony from law enforcement, train crew, family and such that a judge ordered Whistler to be held for trial. Right, so that's those charges and now we're going to have a murder trial.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Leading up to this trial, they did do a toxicology, but as one would imagine back in the 70s, this was not a quick process. The toxicology results come in and would later become a bitter point of dispute in this case because the testing results indicated large quantities of spray paint of a spray paint chemical in Michael's system, the victim system and a.04% blood alcohol level. Now unfortunately, Captain, some of the Craig county residents living in glass houses were straight up eager to cast some stones on Bonnie Ruth Martinez, the mother, of course, and they at the time they were casting these stones, I don't think because of this spray paint chemical found in his system or the blood alcohol found in his system. It was more about Bonnie Ruth Martinez making the decision that would ultimately later be used against her by some of these people in the harshest way possible, saying, you know, she sent Michael to Brenda Easter's house before going out for the evening, that she'd rather be out bar hopping than tending to her seven year old boy.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Something that she didn't do often.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Right. And here, and here's the thing, look, we've talked about this before. Newspaper coverage at the time, this, some of the reporting just played out this way and I think it fueled people in the communities back then and it's, it's a real pisser because if you go back in time, these, these old newspapers and the, some of the reporters that filled their pages were quite brutal with their handling and writing about family members of these victims. Especially when it's children, when it's a child that's murdered, shaming the parents or parts of the victim's day or choices that the victim made it. A lot of these read almost as you know, everything's a cautionary tale in the telling of some of these stories in the old newspapers.

[Co-host (Captain)]

So this is going to bring us to the murder trial.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes. The trial opened on October 12, 1978 before District Judge William J. Whistler. An uncanny similarity of name but spelled differently than the defendant's name. That's why we spelled the other Whistler's name prior at the trial. And we'll try to stick to the highlights and of course the low lights I guess you would say. District attorney Sid Wise and Assistant District attorney Royce Hobbs represented the prosecution. The defense was led by Tony Jack Lyons with co counsel of Gary Dean. On the 12th and 13th of October, the prosecution laid out the scene and the science with chief forensic toxicologist Richard Prouty described describing large quantities of toluene, that's that chemical found in spray paint and also describing the alcohol in the victim's system. Pathologist Dr. Nicholas T. Forbes detailed the 29 stab wounds, 25 to the head, back and chest and one fatal puncture to the heart. Four defensive wounds on the left hand, no sexual assault. He mentioned a diagnosis of tuberculosis. Raised cautiously the possibility that this could be brought on by repeated paint sniffing that could explain the tuberculosis. So again, mom thrown under the bus. So Bonnie Martinez, she, she does take the stand here and she vehemently, rightfully so, denies that her son, her seven year old son was huffing paint and drinking alcohol. She's pointing out like this is tied to his murder. This isn't stuff that he was doing leading up to his murder. This is Something that happened the night that he was killed. And probably in my, my opinion, has everything to do with why he was killed. It explains some of that night and probably describes the perpetrator or perpetrators of his murder. Yeah.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Because the scenario I see, kid takes his new dollar bill with his new bike. He's going to go to the convenience store to get something from, runs across one teenager, maybe multiple teenagers. They either ask him if he wants to do it, he does it out of fear, or maybe they force him to do it. I mean, we've all done some stupid stuff. When you're a kid and you run across some teenagers and they go, hey kid, you want a hit of this whiskey and a hit of this cigarette? Sure. You know, and some of that is you're trying to fit in or some of it is you're scared to say no.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And a lot of times the person offering that up might be doing it out of their own amusement and mean no real harm in, in the matter either. But the, the kid's seven. Look, I'm, I only represent one seven year old, one, you know, myself who was one seven. But yeah, I didn't, none of that was, I wouldn't even known that that stuff existed. I don't even think I knew what alcohol really was when I was seven years old. I was too busy with things like bicycles and GI Joes. Right.

[Co-host (Captain)]

But some douchebag kid, some douchebag teenager says, hey man, take a hit of this and maybe has, you know, and

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

he either did willingly or at the suggestion of an older person or did it under protest. It was forced to do it. But what I'm saying is I'm backing up the mom saying I, I, it would, it would shatter my world to learn that he was doing this on a regular basis.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Prior to the night that he was killed. So we also get Craig County Medical examiner Dr. Charles Benton, who states that his estimated time of death was between 11pm and midnight. And he did say that that would be a guesstimate Katie crew members. So the train crew members testified that the body was not present on their first pass around 11:30pm nor on their second pass.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

But they saw it around 12:50am on their third pass. And then unfortunately, the train passed over. So now again, this window is getting even smaller and smaller and smaller because what do we know? Took place. He was attacked. He was stabbed 29 times and then placed on the railroad tracks.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah. Which is difficult too because did this happen way earlier and then somebody went back to move the body or move

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

the body and never had left the area prior to right placing the body on the tracks. So the confession, that signed confession was introduced at trial. The defense attacked it as a product of pressure on a troubled youth, signed by somebody who was susceptible to suggestion and clouded by intoxication. They introduced a potential alternate suspect, Gerald Ray White, the transient detained near the tracks the day Michael's body was found, who had also drawn attention in an eerily similar Arizona case. Now, we have OSBI at the trial. They did acknowledge that. Look, White originally was a suspect. He became a suspect because of where we found him and then the failed polygraph examinations. But he testified that he had failed 15 to 20 more in rapid succession and stated that he had that pattern of a guilt complex reactor with no physical evidence tying White to the Veneta crimes or the Arizona crimes.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Well, what's sad about this whole case is because of the time period, if it was today, this be probably solved very quickly, and there'd probably be a mountain of evidence because we have what we assume is the murder weapon. We also have this vehicle, the bicycle, that might have evidence on it. And also we have the victim and the bags, the. The spray paint cans and all that stuff. So, I mean, you got tons of stuff that you could test for DNA and fingerprints and. And other things.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, I. I think that they may have found that knife a lot faster, a lot sooner today. And if it were in fact there that night, lying somewhere near our crime scene and was located that night, they could have potentially have found suspect blood on it or fingerprints.

[Co-host (Captain)]

But also we could find, today with our technology, we might be able to find a purchase for that pocket knife through Amazon or whoever.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

We do get dueling psychiatrists here.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Oh, that's fun.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

We have what kind of gun. Dr. Jim O', Carroll, he represented the defense team, and he says that two exams showed him that Whistler was schizophrenic and prone to fantasy and suggestion, to put it short. And then we have Dr. R.D. garcia, Chief Forensic psychiatrist at Eastern State Hospital, who said he examined Whistler three times, found no signs of schizophrenia, and diagnosed antisocial personality, and testified that the defendant knew right from wrong. In the end, the prosecution called 22 witnesses. The defense called six. Whistler did not testify. The handling of evidence came under fire, most notably the bicycle and the knife. But, I mean, I don't know why they would say the handling of evidence, they. They just didn't find the stuff. And maybe that's what came under fire, was not being able to find, not Being able to locate the knife I. The bicycle. We know the bicycle was his. There's no question about that. What would come into play would be the knife. We don't know the knife was found near the murder scene. But when was it placed there? If you can prove that it was placed there the night of the murder, well, then it looks to be much more likely to be the murder weapon. But having found it months later, it could have been dropped at any time.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Well, again, if you have a knife and you have a good autopsy, you'd be able to determine if this knife could have been the murder weapon. So I think a lot of this. I think a lot of the problems in this case is simply the time period.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And OSBI is pretty good, a pretty good outfit. I wasn't alive at this time, so I couldn't vouch for their work back then. But, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think a lot of this has to do with the difficulties of it being 1977.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, I was alive at this time, but I was in a different human vessel, so I don't remember much from that time period.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

On October 14, the case went to the jury. They were instructed to consider some possibilities here. First degree murder, first degree manslaughter, not guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity. By 11pm that night, deadlocked at eight for guilt and four for acquittal, they could not agree, and the judge, William Whistler, declared a mistrial. Gary Leroy Whistler was returned to the Craig county jail on $50,000 bond. Now we have five months that passes. And now it's March of 1979 when a second trial will begin. This time we have Assistant District Attorney Dan Allen representing the state. Tony Jack Lyons once again representing the defendant. Photographs of the scene were introduced. Former Venita police Sergeant Bob Marshall and three Katie Crew members described rails the bridge, the discovery of the body. After the third pass. None, of course, could place the defendant at the scene of the murder or at the killing. On March 14, 1979, Roy Robinson, despite recent hospitalizations and injuries, a slashed wrist, a stab wound. Again, he testified that his friend whistler returned around 10pm on the night in question, very drunk, but with no blood on his clothes or hands. And that Whistler had slept on the couch until late morning. And then again, we have the dueling psychiatrists with their findings.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, you'd think that there would be some blood on this individual.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Oh, absolutely. 29 stab wounds. Absolutely. The thing here, though is. So let's get to this dueling psychiatrist because one thing that I find interesting in the second trial is described slightly, slightly different than it was in the first. Okay, so Dr. O' Carroll said that Whistler lived in a fantasy world. He was both homicidal and suicidal. And he testifies that he had attempted self harm multiple times. Remember, this is the doctor for the defense team, for the defense of this young man. And he also says that the. This young man is extremely susceptible to suggestion and coercion. So in a lot of ways, this is suggestive that, look, it would be easy to get a confession out of this guy, especially one that's kind of vague like this, that doesn't name the. The victim, but it also states that he found him to be homicidal and suicidal. So it's really kind of setting the table for a defense of a couple of things that either he's innocent or he's innocent by. Because of insanity. Yeah, an insanity defense. Again, the. For the state, we have Dr. Garcia, who pushed back against the SK schizophrenia and maintain that the defendant knew right from wrong. And that was his findings.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, but that becomes difficult too, because you might know right from wrong when you're sober, but if you're high on

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

paint and really drunk, like I would assume copious amounts. Yeah, copious. The way. The way that Roy Robinson describes it and the papers describe it, they're on like, they're there. They've gone through two bottles of whiskey at this point. Now, were they both full? We don't know. Like, we don't get a great description here, but that's a lot of liquor for two people. Yeah, especially two younger dudes. This time the case goes to the jury, but they only. The deliberation is only for two hours. And the jury acquitted Gary Leroy Whistler of the murder of Michael James Martinez and acquitted him of placing the body on the tracks. He declined to speak to reporters as he left the courthouse. He walked away free. Having been incarcerated, being held for trial since February 1978. So 13 months in jail. If, if, if you're sitting there and you think and believe that he's absolutely guilty, well, he. He wasn't. He didn't go completely unpunished. He did technically sit in jail for a little more than 13 months. The problem here is a couple things for me with this case, like, I think what. Where he gets the acquittal. I think the problems for the jury are twofold. One, the time of death. Because if you put a lot of weight into the time of death, we have the doctor saying, I put the time of death between 11pm and midnight. And you have the witness along with his mother. So you technically have two witnesses saying, well, by 11 o', clock, you know, he was home. What did they say? But he was home prior to 11 o'. Clock. He was in their shed. He came out of the shed saying, God, help me, help me. And I, I think that that is a, is, was a big hurdle for the jury. I think the other part of this that's a big hurdle for the jury is your witness, Roy Robinson. Right. Like, because here's, here's the pro. Here's where I can't get away from these two guys as being the best suspects. It's what was found in the victim's body, the paint, chemical and the liquor. That kid ingested this stuff sometime after 9, 9:30 that night. And then he's placed on the tracks after being stabbed.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

I don't think he did any of that on his own. I think he did that at the suggestion of somebody else. Maybe two persons, maybe one. But then you go, okay, well, can you say 100%? Can you feel good saying 100% that it was just Gary Leroy Whistler that did this? I don't think you can, because I think his buddy Roy, for all the reasons that you would say that Whistler might be guilty, Roy looks to be just as guilty.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

The other thing too, that I, I wonder how. Well, the prosecution challenged this is we had that vague confession. I'm really surprised that that vague confession didn't work back in 1977, especially when you have a high school dropout drug user. But it didn't work. But as vague as that confession is, or maybe it's coerced. What have you Also keep in mind who, who is saying that the timeline doesn't line up? The, the time frame doesn't line up. It's his buddy, Roy Robinson. But Roy Robinson isn't saying that that night or the next day. He's not telling police. No, this guy was here all night. He was here at the time that you think that the kid was killed, so he couldn't have done it. He's saying this in February. So four months, three and a half months later. How accurate is that witness statement? And I get it that his mom backs that up, Irene backs that up. But how accurate is that? When they're being asked to recount the events of a night from four months

[Co-host (Captain)]

prior, that becomes extremely difficult. And also some of the people that are asking to recount these events were intoxicated or high on paint. Fumes.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And the doctor said that the time of death was a guesstimate.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Yeah, but also this idea that.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Meaning he could have, he could have stabbed the boy. The problem I guess is the crew members statements of not seeing the boy on the tracks when they pat. Because they.

[Co-host (Captain)]

What I wonder is how deep are these stab wounds? I know there's multiple, but is there any evidence of, of him being placed on the train tracks or is it possible that he moved himself onto the train tracks trying to get help?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

It's difficult to say without having.

[Co-host (Captain)]

I mean I understand that there's a lot of stab wounds, but when you, when they're saying hey, we found this pocket knife and that could be the murder weapon. Well, there's multiple blades on a pocket knife. So how deep are these stab wounds and is it there? Is there any possible chance that when he was left.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, but you have the one you, from the report, you have the one that says the, there was one that reached the heart.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And so the way that the, the report we have, the way that that reads to me is that once that injury occurs, he's dead.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Right. He's not moving.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Four months after this acquittal, this would be July 19, 1979. While mowing grass at Fairview Cemetery, Gary Whistler was reportedly attacked with a knife. The assailant was 19 year old Bill Hensley, described as a friend of the Martinez family who attended both trials. He was charged with the assault. The suggested motive was revenge. Having believed that Whistler was guilty of killing the Martinez boy, he chose to attack him with a knife. Whistler was not harmed, from my understanding, in the attack. Michael James Martinez's case is listed on oklahomacoldcases.org and it talks about everything in a brief summary that we talked about here in our coverage today, discussing that the last known sighting of him was him riding his bicycle, saying he was going to go to a convenience store only about two blocks away from where his body would eventually be found. And according. One thing that it states here too, Captain, is according to media reports, upwards of 15 people were polygraphed in the case. Eventually though, authorities would arrest 19 year old Gary Leroy Whistler. Though the arrest did not lead to a conviction. After two trials, one hung jury, Whistler was acquitted of having committed Michael's murder. No one else has ever been charged in the case. If you have any information regarding the murder of Michael James Martinez, please contact OSBI at 800-522-8017.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Want to thank you so much for joining us here in the garage or the garage full of weeds. For everything true crime, check out truecrimegarage.com Sign up on the mailing list.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And until next week, be good, be kind, and don't.

[Co-host (Captain)]

Sa.

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