Delphi Murders Trial /// Part 1 /// 800

Summary

True Crime Garage - Delphi Murders Trial Part 1

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode of True Crime Garage, hosts Nic and the Captain delve into the high-profile trial of Richard Allen, accused of the brutal double homicide of Libby German and Abigail Williams in Delphi, Indiana. Released on November 12, 2024, Part 1 of their in-depth coverage navigates through the complexities of the case, exploring key testimonies, evidence presented, and the emotional toll on both the community and those involved in the trial.

---

Trial Proceedings and Opening Arguments

[04:06] The episode begins with a reflection on the powerful closing statements made by both the prosecution and defense. Nic quotes the prosecution's assertion: “Richard Allen is Bridge Guy. Richard Allen used his gun to force the girls down the hill” ([04:06] Nicholas McClelland). The prosecution emphasizes the day of the murders, February 13, 2017, as a pivotal moment never forgotten by the community.

Nic provides a comprehensive overview of the trial's context, highlighting the community's desperate search for justice and the emotional strain endured by both victims' families and the accused. He notes the extraordinary measures taken to ensure an unbiased jury by transporting jurors from other counties due to the case's traumatic nature.

[06:00] Nic elaborates on the trial's atmosphere, describing the courtroom's small size and the extensive public interest. He emphasizes that while a verdict is pending, the podcast aims to keep listeners informed about the ongoing proceedings.

---

Jury Dynamics and Courtroom Transparency

[08:22] The Captain expresses the difficulty of approaching the trial objectively, given the show's long-term coverage since 2017. He acknowledges the challenges of maintaining neutrality after dissecting the case from multiple angles over time.

[12:34] Nic discusses Indiana's unique courtroom practice allowing jurors to ask questions, which he views as a beneficial practice for ensuring thorough deliberations. He believes this transparency aids both the prosecution and defense in conveying their cases effectively.

[15:50] The conversation shifts to the importance of keeping the victims, Abby and Libby, at the forefront of discussions. The Captain underscores the necessity of remembering the victims amidst the intense focus on Richard Allen's innocence.

---

Evidence and Prosecution's Case

[16:14] Nic critiques the prosecution's handling of physical evidence, particularly the reliance on ballistics. He defends the scientific methods used, countering claims that they constitute "junk science" ([18:18] Nic).

[21:13] The hosts dissect the significance of a mislabelled arrest affidavit, which initially led to confusion regarding Richard Allen's identity. They explain how the error—labeling him as "Richard Allen Whiteman"—was pivotal in his eventual arrest.

[25:25] Nic details the prosecution's case, emphasizing that Richard Allen was present at the crime scene. He points out that multiple pieces of evidence, including Allen's presence, physical resemblance to "Bridge Guy," and ballistic evidence linking his firearm to the crime scene, build a compelling narrative for his guilt.

[37:59] The discussion turns to the vehicle associated with Allen. Nic explains the conflicting eyewitness accounts and surveillance footage, highlighting the prosecution's argument that distinctive aftermarket rims on Allen's Ford Focus help differentiate it from thousands of similar vehicles.

---

Defense's Arguments and Challenges

[34:13] The Captain addresses criticisms of media outlets like Murder Sheet, suggesting they may be too close to the case. This raises concerns about potential bias in reporting, which the hosts acknowledge could influence public perception.

[43:48] Nic and the Captain explore the defense's strategy, which focuses on Richard Allen's mental and emotional state. They discuss testimonies from family members and mental health evaluations aimed at portraying Allen as unstable, potentially undermining his credibility.

[46:36] The Captain mentions the defense's vague references to past sexual abuse, questioning the clarity and impact of these claims. He reflects on the complexities of mental health and its portrayal in court, suggesting that the defense seeks to paint Allen in a sympathetic light.

---

Key Testimonies and Physical Evidence

[49:11] Nic summarizes crucial testimonies, including those from Richard Allen's wife and daughter. He highlights that Allen's daughter vehemently denies any abuse by her father, reinforcing the family's support despite his accusations.

[51:13] The hosts delve into the forensic evidence, such as the bullet recovered near the victims and its ballistic match to Allen's Sig Sauer gun. They discuss Allen's own admissions about handling the firearm on the day of the murders, presenting this as incriminating.

[52:56] Nic and the Captain analyze the sequence of events involving the firearm, addressing how accidental or intentional actions during the altercation could link Allen directly to the crime.

---

Host Reflections and Emotional Impact

[27:46] Nic confesses to an obsessive preoccupation with the case, acknowledging how deeply it has affected him personally. The Captain echoes similar sentiments, revealing the emotional strain the trial has imposed on him, including physical illness and mental exhaustion.

[35:06] The Captain discusses Richard Allen's actions on the day of the murders, including his reported consumption of alcohol and presence at the park, further establishing the timeline of events that place him at the crime scene.

[44:48] Nic reflects on the prosecution's case, asserting that while it may not be "open and shut," the evidence presented strongly suggests Allen's guilt. He emphasizes the physical evidence and eyewitness accounts that tie Allen to the murders.

---

Conclusion and Anticipation for Part 2

As the trial progresses, Nic and the Captain express a blend of frustration and hope for resolution. They anticipate that further evidence and testimonies will continue to shed light on Richard Allen's involvement in the tragic Delphi murders. The episode concludes with a promise to return with more detailed analysis in Part 2, urging listeners to stay engaged as the trial unfolds.

---

Notable Quotes

• Nic: "Richard Allen is Bridge Guy. Richard Allen used his gun to force the girls down the hill." [04:06]
• Captain: "He was there. He's on the bridge. That's factual." [37:49]
• Nic: "It's a matter of when did he arrive and when did he leave?" [43:48]
• Captain: "We have somebody that was at the park, he was arrested, he looks like the first sketch." [25:25]
• Nic: "I don't understand why they didn't push that more." [42:13]

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of True Crime Garage offers a nuanced exploration of the Richard Allen trial, balancing factual recounting of courtroom events with personal reflections from the hosts. By dissecting both sides of the case and questioning the integrity of evidence and testimonies, Nic and the Captain provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of one of Delphi's most harrowing mysteries.

Transcript

[Nick]

High5 casino lets you play your favorite slot and live table games like blackjack. With the chance to redeem for real cash prizes. High Five Casino has a giant selection of over 1200 games, including hundreds of exclusive games only found on High Five Casino. It's always free to play and free coins are given out every four hours. Ready to have your own High five moment? Visit high5casino.com that's high the number five casino.com no purchase necessary. Void where prohibited by law. Must be 21 years or older. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick and with me, as always, is a man who once asked Marvin Gaye what's going on here.

[The Captain]

Is the captain and he had the nerve not to reply to me. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick]

Today we are very happy to be featuring judge, jury and executioner by the fine folks at Iron Fire Brewing Company. This is a delicious triple I to the P to the A very hoppy, very hoppy. With seven high alpha hop varieties from three continents. This IPA is for the extreme hop heads out there. ABV 11.2%. So drink this in your garage at home garage grade four out of five bottle caps. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good friends that helped us fill up the old garage fridge for this week. First up, a shout out to Sadie and Warren, Michigan.

[The Captain]

And a big shout out to Kelly in sunny Tampa.

[Nick]

Next up, here's a cheers to Kimberly from Mount Scary, Maryland.

[The Captain]

And a big shout out goes to Lisa W. In Bristol, Connecticut.

[Nick]

Next up, here's a cheers to Rose Austin in San Marcos, Texas. And last but certainly not least, we have a double fisted cheers to Daniel and Tracy from Witchita, Kansas who say be excellent to each other. And we agree, be excellent to each other. Everyone we just mentioned contributed to the beer fund and for that we thank you.

[The Captain]

Yeah, pwr run. You need more True Crime Garage for your ear balls. Yes you do. Your balls need more. Make sure you subscribe to off the Record on Patreon or Apple podcast subscription and Colonel, that's enough of the business.

[Nick]

All right everybody gather round, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime downhil.

[Nicholas McClelland]

Powerful moments in these closing statements from both the state and the defense. Words that will likely stick in this jury's mind as they deliberate. The state went first in their closing statements telling the jury bridge Guy is guilty of murder and Richard Allen is bridge guy. Nicholas McClelland told the jury that February 13, 2017 was a day this community will never forget, saying it's the day Abby and Libby went to the trails for a walk and never returned. McLean said in the hours of people searching for the girls, no one thought anything bad had happened, that this was a small community and these kind of things don't happen. McLeland pulled up pictures of the crime scene showing Abby and Libby's bodies, saying, quote, this next picture is hard to see, but this is what they saw. Recalling the moments the girls bodies were found, McLean played the video of bridge guy from Libby's phone, saying something told Libby she needed to take video of the man behind Abby that day. McClelland set up a timeline using witnesses who testified they saw bridge guy that day. He told the jury investigators knew, quote, if we could find bridge guy, we could find the killer. When Richard Allen was arrested five years later, McClelan recalled what police found in Allen's home. A blue Carhartt jacket, a bullet in a memory box and a Sig Sauer gun, calling it the bridge guy starter kit. The state also replayed two phone calls Richard Allen made from prison. The first confessing to his wife, the second telling his mom he killed the girls. McClelland told the jury, quote, richard Allen is bridge guy. Richard Allen used his gun to force the girls down the hill, also telling them, quote, he slit their throats. He left behind his calling card, a bullet from his gun. McClelan called February 13th a day that bridge guy stole the youth and life away from Abby and Libby.

[Nick]

This here captain feels like in all eyes are looking at this situation. Everybody wants to know what's going on at the trial of Richard Allen, who is on trial for the double homicide of Libby German and Abigail Williams, who first went missing and then sadly were found dead in February of 2017 in Deli, Indiana. And the now infamous case of the Monin High Bridge. Bridge guy who everybody was looking for for so long until the arrest of Richard Allen. And then after all of this time, we are now finally in the courtroom. We recorded an episode that everybody listened to not too long ago, just a few weeks back, about the start of the trial and some things that we were hoping that would come out during the course of that trial. And here we are once again reporting on this situation, which is the trial of Richard Allen, who was facing double murder charges in Carroll County, Indiana. And if the listeners remember, they had to bus in the jury from another county there in Indiana because of the concern that you wouldn't be able to find a jury that didn't have a dog in the fight, so to speak, because this is such a traumatic case and such a huge tragedy for this area in particular. And so many people paying attention to the news and putting ribbons on trees and around lamppost and such, trying and hoping and banding together to find the killer of these two young, beautiful ladies that were just out there trying to have a good time out in Mother Nature on a, on a unseasonably warm day in February of 2017, where we sit now, just to be clear here, unfortunately we're not at a point where there's a verdict yet and we are set to hear closing arguments. But for the sake of this podcast, we are bringing to you what we've been able to observe and the information we've been able to gather as far as the trial itself has taken place over the course of the last couple of weeks.

[The Captain]

And we've been talking about this case from the beginning, 2017. So just to be clear, we would not qualify as jury members. They would rule us out immediately. So I think it's kind of difficult. This case is definitely difficult to look at with fresh eyes when we've been discussing it for so long.

[Nick]

Yeah. And the other thing that makes it very difficult, too is our own curiosities. Right. We've, we've been throwing this thing under a microscope for so long and looking at it from so many different angles that when it, when there was finally an arrest and now that it's working its way through the trial process, I think that it's only human nature to want to know a lot of details about that day that are probably not very necessary for a conviction or acquittal. So for those that are hoping to get a absolute play by play on the day of Richard Allen and the day of the murder victims, and if he's guilty or innocent, and defining moments that could prove so or otherwise, it's a little dissatisfying at the end of the day, but that is typically what we will see time and time again with other cases as well once they do hit trial. You have a situation here. He's accused of a double homicide, he's pled not guilty, says that he's innocent. There are a plethora of confessions that he may or may not have made, depending on who you talk to, but it seems like he's made a good deal of them while his time waiting and leading up to this trial after he was behind bars. So we should probably set this up for people who have not been fully dialed in on this trial. It is taking place, as said, in Carroll county, which is in Delphi, Indiana. So this is an. A rather small courtroom. They've decided to go with first come, first serve basis for people who can attend the court proceedings. And so there is a line that lines up rather quickly each and every day for this trial of people that want to get in, some people that have a vested interest in the case. Maybe they are family members or extended family or friends of the families of the victims or the accused. And there's also people that have a vested interest because we said it a dozen times, maybe more, on True Crime Garage. This was not just a murder against these two poor kids, but also a crime against the community, the wonderful communities of Delphi, Indiana, and Carroll County, Indiana, at large as well. So a lot of people with a vested interest in the outcome and the actual proceedings of this trial as well. One thing, Captain, that is unique here, and this is something that we pointed out before it went to trial. And this, to me, was one of the more interesting angles potentially for this trial and always has been with cases in Indiana, for me, is Indiana is one of the states where you have a situation, a setup where the jury is allowed to ask questions. And I find that to be so fascinating, but also refreshing. I actually, this is something that I wish that they would incorporate in more courtrooms throughout this country. I sat down the other night and I tried to come up with a list of pros and cons for why jury questioning is good or bad, and I couldn't. I think the pros significantly outweigh the cons in these cases. And I really couldn't find a whole lot of negative to say or suggest that the jury in all cases shouldn't be able to ask questions.

[The Captain]

Yeah, I agree. And you've seen a couple times where the jury is deliberating and they might want to see a piece of evidence again. So I've seen that in movies and documentaries, but obviously, like you said, we're not privy to be in this courtroom, so we don't know how many questions the jury asked or how that was received.

[Nick]

What I love about this. So, Captain, what I think works for this, as far as far as getting transparency in these cases. Look, if you. If you don't have a situation where the jury can ask questions, you may have them once they are in deliberation, talking amongst themselves. You can have infighting, you can have. And they could have a situation where they're not so clear they don't have a clear, unified understanding of a detail of the crime or a detail about the suspect here. When the jury can ask a question that allows them to clarify, to get clarification on different testimony throughout the trial. And as you said, evidence that could point toward innocence or guilt. The other thing that I think is interesting too, to kind of look at it from this angle, I think the jury questions could be helpful to both sides, both the prosecution and the defense. Because oftentimes, as an attorney, when you are presenting your reasons why person A is guilty or innocent in a case, you don't know if just because you wrote it down correctly on your legal pad and you said it just right in the courtroom, if it really hit and resonated with each and every one of the jury members, it's a long day to sit there and listen to testimony and listen to attorneys and listen to objections. And if there are some key elements to your prosecution or to your defense, you want to make sure that that hits and resonates with each and every one of those jury members. I think it's helpful, because if they stand up and ask certain questions, you go, okay, well, maybe they're leaning this way on this particular item, or maybe I didn't sell that enough. So next time I get an opportunity, I better, I better come up with a different tactic. I think that it allows for a more thorough trial and hopefully a more thorough job by both the prosecution and defense.

[The Captain]

Well, we're just two dumb dumbs in a garage. And we've done over a thousand episodes and talked about many things. And there's many times we get comments back where you question, did this listener listen to the right episode? Because they took what I said. And I don't blame the listener. Sometimes there's just miscommunication, and sometimes we don't say things as clearly as we mean. So like you said, I agree this is a really good thing. And I think sometimes we have two victims here, Abby and Libby, and I think they've got lost in the sauce a little bit.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[The Captain]

And which is sad. But we also have to remember that this guy, Richard Allen, is. He's innocent until proven guilty, and his life is on the line. His family's lives are on the line as well. And because the crime is so heinous that I think sometimes we go, well, who gives a shit about this scumbag?

[Nick]

Yeah, that can certainly be something that takes place and, and seems to be a matter of course a lot of times in these cases. But you, as you so astutely pointed out that, yes, he is innocent until proven guilty. The one thing here, too, is so many eyes and ears on this case for so many months and then years. And when he was arrested, we, we were able to tear through the arrest affidavit, the search warrant information, and that really showed us the evidence that they were working with to lead them to an arrest of Richard Allen, and it hinted at what we might see at the trial. Now, the trial, of course, opened up with opening arguments, which, to put it short and sweet, the prosecution comes out and says, bridge guy killed these girls. Richard Allen is bridge guy, and this case is about him. A man on a bridge and a bullet that was found, and of course, a cell phone. But we. So much has been discussed about that cell phone footage over the years. That, and one thing that we've, we've said for the longest time is while that cell phone image of bridge guy, of the man walking across the bridge that approaches the girls shortly before they are moved and then assaulted and killed, that image isn't good enough that you can look at it and go, okay, I know exactly who did this. It's just good enough that you can eliminate a certain portion of the population, the bullet. However, if the science is true and if what the prosecution is stating is absolutely true is a different scenario.

[The Captain]

And I hate when people say that it's junk science. It's not junk science. There is some science to it.

[Nick]

To me, it's overly dismissive to just say it's junk science. This is not the first trial where they've used ballistics. This will not be the last trial.

[The Captain]

Well, the expert for the prosecution, I believe she's been called hundreds and hundreds of times.

[Nick]

Yeah. And the thing is too, this is one argument that I don't like that many people say. And maybe we've danced on this before, but with people, well, it was five and a half years. The pressure was really on law enforcement to solve this and to find some guy that, that they could accuse of doing it.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

Yeah. That pressure was on them the day after the murders, too. The pressure didn't build. The longer it, it dragged out.

[The Captain]

No, I'd actually say it dissipated.

[Nick]

And they, they would want to be looking for the right guy all along because guess what? If the pressure had gotten to them at any point in this, they would have arrested a different guy. They had opportunity. They had people that were damn near convicted in the, in the public eye for this, that, that were, are not facing trial today for the murders. So to me, if, if People are going to be overly dismissive in saying the bullets. Junk science. Then I think it's only fair that I'm overly dismissive. For the. For the people that argue, well, they. It was five and a half years, they had to arrest somebody.

[The Captain]

Well, and we've had a lot of speculation in this case. I mean, we had a big turning point when law enforcement released a second sketch that looked completely different than the first sketch. And so because of that speculation, I think people go, well, this investigation was awful. And what we speculated back then years ago was maybe that there was just too many cooks in the kitchen. Because if me and you go interview 10 people, we're going to know the demeanor, we're going to know the context of the conversation, we're going to understand our notes. But when you have so many investigators involved and what happened in this trial, and I think this is important, his name is mislabeled. Adding his street name to the last name, and when it was refiled, and they go, wait, here's this guy that came forward and told us not only was he at the park, but he was on the bridge that day. So we got a handful of people at that park that day, but we only have a couple people claiming to even be on the bridge. And that's important. And this guy claims he was on the bridge. And then once they figured out that this. This file was just mislabeled, within five weeks of them having that filed correctly, they had Richard Allen arrested.

[Nick]

Yeah. So from my understanding here, Captain, the information they had, the mislabel was the information was listed as Richard Allen Whiteman.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And you can see how this lends itself to be a little confusing. One could easily look at that and assume that Allen. I'm sure there's probably a dozen people listening to us right now that their middle name is Allen. And so his last name fits as a potential first name or last name here, or middle name, I should say, and simply labeled Richard Allen Whiteman. And so that person doesn't exist. Well, I shouldn't say that. There's very likely a Richard Whiteman out there.

[The Captain]

Sorry, Richard Whiteman.

[Nick]

Free Richard Whiteman. Free Richard Whiteman. But, yeah, that's how it got labeled and mislabeled. And things like that do happen, unfortunately, in these cases, and not just too many cooks in the kitchen as far as law enforcement go. But there's no way that you're not going to go. This is an all hands on deck situation. So, of course there's going to be a lot of cooks In. In said kitchen. But also when you factor in the potential of eyewitnesses for that day, these murders took place in a public place that anybody in the public, for the most part, had access to. And therefore, there's a lot of canvassing that has to go on. And there's. There are. There is private property or properties that are near here as well. So there's a lot of canvassing that has to go on, and you have to kind of corral everybody that was there that day or claims. Claims to be there that day, because I'm sure that they dealt with that as well.

[The Captain]

Right. And people online, when people make this argument, well, Richard Allen came forward and talked to the police. So why would a killer do that? Well, we've seen that happen in many cases that the killer wants to be involved or feels like if they have conversation with law enforcement, that they'll be able to get ahead of the investigation.

[Nick]

Well, in. In the two different composite sketches that are put together by different potential eyewitnesses there on the trails that day near the Monon High Bridge. Don't overreact, because this is not the only case where we've seen a different composite sketch. We've actually, I would say I could probably put the number between 20 and 25 cases where there's been more than one composite sketch, and in some cases, in very few, but in some, I've seen more than just two composite sketches, and I'm talking about some cases that are solved that are. That have been adjudicated. Well.

[The Captain]

And just to be frank, though, when they released the second sketch, and then law enforcement got a lot of criticism with it. Look, at the end of the day, we. The first sketch, when they arrested Richard Allen, to me, he could pass for the first sketch. Yes, he looks nothing like the second sketch. And I thought it was an unintelligent comment or thought process by law enforcement, instead of saying, well, we messed up, or there might have been a lead or something. And we could dive deeper into that on what my theory would be on why they released the second sketch, but because they held back that information, their. Their comments to the public were, well, he could be a mixture of the two. I just thought that was a stupid remark. And when you have a guy that you arrested, he looks like the first sketch. And I think because of those comments and because they weren't transparent on the reasoning, now they said that they were transparent with the family, so maybe they would know they'd be privy to that information, but we're not. And I Think that raises questions. But to me, at the end of the day, we have somebody that was at the park, he was arrested, he looks like the first sketch. So to me you could check that box off of. Well, that makes sense.

[Nick]

And I think, and this is just my own opinion here, but I think that they, based off of eyewitnesses, potential eyewitnesses, and the cell phone footage of Bridge Guy, I think they were really confused about the age of the perpetrator. I think that that might be in part what led to the second sketch as well.

[The Captain]

But my theory is that, and here's what we know, we have individuals that have come out on social media and say, I was on the bridge that day at this time. And so it's very likely that somebody saw them entering the bridge entrance or exiting the bridge. And so when they initially release the sketch of who they think it is. And, and I think you can look at the first sketch that was released to the public and look at the video and go, well, okay, that makes some sense. I can see that individual roughly in, in the video. And then when they release the second sketch, you're like, I just don't see the second sketch lining up at all with the video. But again, the quality of the video is shit. We all know that quality of the video is shit. So. And the quality of the picture that they took from the video is shit. But when you have individuals coming out and saying, well, I was on the bridge, that's to me the reason that they pivoted to a different sketch, because I think that sketch was of somebody that they knew factually was on that bridge that day. That's just my theory.

[Nick]

Or as you were saying, could have been somebody seen coming or going from the trailhead, which doesn't necessarily mean that they had, that they had to go to the bridge. But we do know the trailhead does lead to the bridge. So.

[The Captain]

Yes, and if I come off a little heated on this episode, it's just the way it is. This is the case that we've been covering since 2017. It's frustrating and it's sad that the victims are getting lost in this whole case.

[Nick]

With big wireless providers, what you see is never what you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill, the price magically skyrockets. With Mint Mobile, you'll never have to worry about gotchas again. When mint mobile says $15 a month, when you purchase a three month plan, they mean it. Not to name names, but I have had mobile providers in the past that have a less than reliable service that I have paid much more than Mint Mobile. Like you, I was tired of complicated bills that included new fees and upcharges that made absolutely no sense. Mint Mobile is straight up great reliable service at a great and fair price. All Mint Mobile plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone, your own phone number and all of your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's deal and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com tcg that's mintmobile.com tcg cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com tcg $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. Cement Mobile for details Is your sock.

[Advertisement Voice]

Drawer looking like a crime scene? Refresh it with Bombas, the most comfortable socks in the history of feet. Bombas is the perfect holiday gift for your work, bestie, cousin or that super picky friend because no one says no to the snug, delicious feeling of new socks. Don't be surprised if you end up keeping a few things for yourself though because Bombas uses the coziest fabrics. But my favorite thing Bombas makes is hands and feet down their slippers. They're designed with marshmallow like memory foam and are all wrapped up in Sherpa. Once you put them on, you'll never want to wear real shoes again. And the Captain's given you permission to never wear real shoes again. Wear these slippers. Wear the Bomba slippers. I absolutely love Bombas. I like to treat myself by treating my feet. I like my feet to be all wrapped up in Sherpa. I just love saying that word Sherpa. So treat yourself or treat somebody you love to. Bombas so ready to feel good and do good? Head over to bombas.com truecrimegarage and use code truecrimegarage for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S Use True Crime Garage at checkout. Treat yourself and treat your feet with the coziest socks ever.

[The Captain]

Bombas.

[Advertisement Voice]

Check out bombas.com truecrimegarage today.

[The Captain]

All right, we are back. Cheers mates. Tall cans in the air. Cheers to you Colonel and Cheers to.

[Nick]

Everybody out there in listener land. So the prosecution opens up this case, opens up the trial. Some of the people that we hear from first or early on is Richard Allen's family. His wife Kathy, we hear from his daughter. Both of them will testify. From everything I've read and heard regarding the daughter's testimony, she's saying she was never molested by her father. She loves her father very much, but would not lie on the stand to defend him. So very matter of fact type of questions and answers going back and forth, especially with the daughter who's not. Was not living with the Allens at the time of, of this case. So really no surprises there. We do get a little bit of insight, maybe not as much as we had wanted about Richard Allen's day, that day on February 13, 2017. And if in full disclosure here, Captain, I'm. What I'm reporting today is essentially hearsay. I was not in the courtroom. We talked about the complications of being in the courtroom. The line was filling up the night before. And then as this case and trial went by day after day, it was getting to the point where people that, that were in the courtroom at 4pm on a. On a Tuesday were too late to be in line for the Wednesday morning session. That's how many people were lining up to get into this courtroom. So, so I'm reporting all of this and the sources that I've used what I did. There's so many people reporting on this that I wanted to make sure that I was sticking with the same sources throughout my daily has been the Carroll County Comet, which is the county newspaper there anyone that's read my book, the Delphi Murders, they know that, that, that receiving that newspaper weekly was something that I had signed up for a long time ago to keep an eye on the case. And this is how dumb I am. I even thought that maybe in some weird way I might see the picture of this man in that newspaper at some point. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that was dumb enough to think on that level. We know people on the Internet were looking for him on Facebook like, like nobody's business. So that was one of my sources. The murder sheet has been valuable as well, but I've. I've leaned towards the comment more because it's. I don't want to say it's less biased because I don't find the, the Anya and Kevin on the murder sheet to be picking aside that. That wouldn't be my opinion of their coverage. I, I think that they're they're simply, they're able, they've been able to get in the courtroom most of the time and there are, they are able to report on what they are seeing and hearing.

[The Captain]

Some of the comments they have seen online about Murder Sheet is that maybe they're too close to the case or they're too invested in the case. And I, I think that's a fair assessment from listeners in the podcast world.

[Nick]

And in their defense, we might be as well. As you said, we've been covering this case on and off since May of 2017. We were one of the first to do it because a lot of podcasters shied away from it because there was just no information. You, there was no story to tell. You know, a couple girls went missing. We don't know anything about their murders, and they're unsolved. That was the story. In, in May of 2017, we hear from Richard Allen's family the day, the day in question. Do I have this right, Captain? He, he goes to his mother's house and I believe he meets his sister there.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And at some point early in the day prior to arriving at the Monan High bridge and the trail head there in Delphi, he consumes three beers. Yeah, something of that.

[The Captain]

And you know, maybe this is true, maybe it's not true, but, you know, when I tell a story and I go, I was at this bar and this fight broke out. I was only three beers deep. I was normally six at that point. So he consumed some alcohol. Yes. I don't know if I believe it was three or more. I don't know if that really matters. But he tells us, Richard Allen tells us that he was at the park that day. Not only does he say that in confessions, but he also told the police he came forward and said, I was at the park the day, not just at the park, but I was also on the bridge that day. And I think.

[Nick]

And I didn't kill the girls. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Because the only thing I'm trying to make clear here, and this is probably a moot point because most of the people listening today have listened and know this case very well. But I think one thing that really separates this case from many others out there is that he is not denying being near the crime scene. That is right. In most cases, the prosecution and before an arrest is even made, they, law enforcement has to be able to put the bad guy or the person that they think is the bad guy at the crime scene. Here they don't have to do that. Now, there's a little question about the timing of everything, but he is physically putting himself at the crime scene on the day that the crimes occurred.

[The Captain]

Yeah, I think. Here's the questions. You know, it's what, when, where, who, how, and why, and the what is the murders? So where? The park, the bridge. We have to place the killer on the bridge. He places himself on the bridge. So when we say, where is Richard Allen? Can he be a suspect because he was at the park? Yes, he can be a suspect because he's at the park. And we have evidence to back this up. Not just his word, but we also have video footage of his car entering and exiting, basically, the park. So. So now we have not just his word, but we have evidence to back up that it's factual that he was there that day. The day these two girls were murdered. He was on the bridge that day that the two girls were murdered. That's factual.

[Nick]

I was going to try to stay on the prosecution and then go to the defense, but if you allow me to. Since we're on this topic right now, if you allow me to jump around, I'll.

[The Captain]

Let's just make this a giant pile of. A giant bowl of poop soup.

[Nick]

Well, and I have that recipe. For anybody out there, if you are.

[The Captain]

Curious, we're happy to ask. We'll post [e-mail].

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah. Mouths are watering. All right, so as far as the question about his vehicle goes, there was a lot of thought that maybe the. Because the manner of egress, how the killer got to the trail system, how the killer exited the trail system was always in question. People thought, could it be the trailhead? Could it be the Freedom Bridge? Could it be the graveyard? What about this car that was parked over by the abandoned old Child Services building that's nearby?

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know what? What's crazy to me is, like, that seemed to be that little nugget that was not the centerpiece of any story or any press conference, but it was always kind of included. Right. Like, it always was like, oh, and we would like to talk to the driver of a car that was parked near the old abandoned Child Services building.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And so a lot of people and part of this trial is trying to determine if that was Richard Allen's vehicle that was parked near that building. You have some people that are presenting testimony that it. That it seems likely that it was his. His vehicle there. I think one person at the trial was even saying something like it was parked strangely, like, parked in a Manner that looked like somebody wanted to get away quickly, I love. But then you have other witnesses that just did describe the vehicle, and their description doesn't look anything like. I don't think anybody could say that it would be similar to his Ford Focus. So the family owned a couple of vehicles. And it's the. It's law enforcement has put forth and the prosecution has put forth the idea that Richard Allen was driving the Ford Focus, the family's Ford Focus, on the day in question. And there are some people that give a description that one could say would match a Ford Focus. There's also camera footage from a nearby store. I think it's called something Harvest that sees a similar vehicle to a Ford Focus that would be traveling in a direction toward the trails. Doesn't mean that they had to go to the trails. Traveling in a direction toward the trails and then leaving in the opposite direction. This would be after the time before the abduction and murders took place and then seen after it's believed that the abductions and murders took place. Here's the very big difference from my understanding in regard to the camera footage versus the eyewitnesses statements about this vehicle that was parked at the abandoned building, what I've been told by law enforcement is that the Ford Focus in the video, they say one thing that would set Richard Allen's Ford Focus apart from the thousands and thousands of others, of course will be color, but also that he has aftermarket rims, different rims. That. So they're saying that makes this vehicle not one of one, but it's. It certainly makes it much more unique. Now, if you cross reference and compare that to the eyewitness statements about the vehicle parked at the abandoned building, if you were to get all these people and put them in the room at the same time, they're not going to be able to agree on the description of this vehicle. And therefore the defense is saying, well, that needs to put into question for you out there. Was this Richard Allen's vehicle or not? To me, I go, I don't understand what we're saying here because he's already said he was at the crime scene. So we don't. We don't need to mess around with this vehicle to put him at the crime scene. I guess, as you always say, Captain and I agree, the devil's in the details. And here it would really boil down to, well, how long was he at the crime scene and when did he arrive and when did he leave? Which you might be able to determine that based off of the vehicle Information.

[The Captain]

Yeah. I think the other thing here that I don't understand why the prosecution didn't push this issue more, and we've talked about this in the past, is bridge guy is very short for a man, for an average adult. So the fact that Richard Allen falls into that description not only just in his height, but also weight. And then on top of that, he's also admitted to wearing clothes similar to what he claims as similar to bridge guy. And so you go, okay, well, he was at the, at the park. He was on the bridge. He was wearing clothes that were similar. Same height as bridge guy. He's about the same weight as bridge guy. It's kind of hard to tell because of the video quality. I don't understand why they didn't push that more. But again, I'm not privy to every.

[Nick]

Well, no, but we've, we've been told. And what we've been told, and this is fairly recent, is that they couldn't, just like my suspicion about the age, they couldn't agree on the height. And it was a question of two inches. Now, but you got to keep in mind that. That 2 inches can go either way. So essentially, you have a question of 4 inches, and now you've not really, you've not done a great job of narrowing it down. And so that was something that was probably. I bet you led to some heated arguments behind closed doors what to do with that information.

[The Captain]

Yeah. So just to be clear where I stand so far, he's there. We know that. Again, I think this arguing about the car and all that nonsense, I think, I don't really understand the point other than maybe the timeline, because he said he was there. So now are we just trying to completely change the argument and say he wasn't there? And then the other thing, too, is some of this other evidence that the defense releases later. You would go, well, you would want his car leaving at a certain time based on the evidence that they try to point out. So he's there. He's on the bridge. Again, we only have a, you know, a couple dozen people that were at the park that day. But as far as eyewitnesses go, or people that were at the park that came forward and talked to law enforcement, we only have a few individuals that claim to. You've been near or on that bridge that day.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I think my opinion of what, in my understanding of the way that the courtroom proceedings took place, I think that the prosecution did a good job here. Now, did they present an open and shut case? No, they did not. But they presented a case with the evidence that they have. And I thought that they did a good job of also getting ahead of some things in the case. Right. Like the.

[The Captain]

Yeah. Some questions.

[Nick]

Richard Allen's family. Richard Allen's family was called before the defense got their turn, and so they're already talking about his day. The. There was a lot of talk and discussion about. And I believe that this was the defense that was bringing forth the mental and emotional makeup of Richard Allen. Yeah, some of that was discussed by the prosecution, though, too, because we had a counselor or psychiat psychologist that was working with Allen at the. While he was in jail waiting for trial. So we get kind of what I view as conflicting reports a little bit here. It sounds like he had some. Some difficulties or at least that's what the. The defense presents quite a bit here.

[The Captain]

Seems like he had some issues with alcoholism as well.

[Nick]

He had some alcoholism issues. Something about being terrified of conflict. And there is. It's stated that there's some sexual abuse in his past in that he was the victim. Do I have that correct?

[The Captain]

I believe so. And I think they were very vague.

[Nick]

About that from my understanding.

[The Captain]

I understand why the defense called younger females that are a part of Richard Allen's life. They put them on the stand to say he didn't sexually molest them. But again, I understand why they did it. But I think with mental health and 1. Our lack of understanding of it and mental health affects every individual completely different. Some people need to be medicated, some people don't. It's a conversation that we. It's a topic that we probably should be talking more openly about it. We've tried to do that on the show, but here's what we do know. When you. When you have people wrestling with mental issues, they. They're more likely to be suicidal and homicidal. So I just think. I know that they're trying to set up this narrative that, well, all these confessions are false because he was just mentally unstable. But they also try to present it as he was only mentally unstable because of the conditions that he was put in. But it's like. But you're also saying that he was mentally unstable before then. So. And then you have to be somewhat mentally unstable to commit a crime like this to. And you have to be clear because what we've learned that these victims, Abby and Libby, they. When they. I don't know if you heard about these. The, the way the marks and the cuts on their neck, but this is not just one cut and Walk away. These were multiple cuts. We have vertical cuts, we have horizontal cuts. And, yeah, you'd have to be somewhat mentally unstable to commit a crime like this.

[Nick]

Well, and we've had weeks of trial. And I gotta say this, Captain, I'm. Even after weeks of trial, I'm. I don't feel like as good of a job or as best of a job as I believe that the prosecution could do here. They put together and they rolled out their case for the. For the jury to consume, to ponder, to digest, and then to arrive at a verdict. And their case is basically, this guy was there. He doesn't look unlike bridge guy. He was dressed like bridge guy. Bridge guy killed the girls.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And if we found. Well, that. Excellent. Let's circle back to that. But the bullet that we found near. But it's described in some news outlets as between, found between the two victims, matches a bullet that came from ballistically. We can tie this to his Sig Sauer gun. And then on top of that, he has openly said in interrogations or questioning, whatever you want to call it with law enforcement that he. That he owned a Sig Sauer. He's never lent it to anybody, ever, for any reason at all. And, yes, he regularly carries it with him when he goes to those trails. And he often keeps a round chambered.

[The Captain]

Yes. And then on top of that, the ammo matched ammo that he had at his house. And then. And I think this is important, too, because they found another bullet that was, I believe, on his nightstand or on. On the nightstand inside a memory box. But that was another bullet that was. That was chambered at one point in his gun. So it would have similar markings as the one found at the crime scene. But he states in one of his confessions that, you know, he. He's telling the victims, he's telling Abby and Libby, I got a gun. He says at some point, he cocks it at the top of the bridge on the other side of the bridge. And so if you go, we have two bullets, one at the crime scene, one at his house, both chambered at some point. But he can tell you about the first time that he cocked that gun. Maybe he did find that bullet, and that's the one on his nightstand. And then the other one he didn't find. Yes, that was the one found underneath. Or again, like you said, I mean, there's conflicting reports. I don't know. It wasn't clear to me. Did they find the bullet between the victims or was it found underneath one of the victim's foot yeah.

[Nick]

And part of that, too, is the description of the murder scene where the girls were found and some of the evidence that was found there, physical evidence, one being Libby's phone, which we know was found underneath of Libby. And so here's the thing. If he's saying, well, I cycled around or racked around at the top of the bridge, well, that certainly doesn't mean that he's innocent, number one. And number two, it actually strongly points towards his guilt because now he's already talking about moving the victims, which we know I keep saying abduction, but that's the definition, the legal definition of abduction. You are placing these people, these. In this situation, children. You're placing two children who feel scared to death, scared for their lives, and now you're moving them to a place that they do not want to go to. And in fact, just being in your presence is a place that they do not want to be. And here's the thing. I've said this a dozen times on the show. I own guns. I'm not a gun expert. I know where the bullets go and how to pull the trigger, much like I own a vehicle. But I can't take it apart and put it back together again. Yes, the captain's witnessed that. I took it apart. And it remains. It remains apart right now.

[The Captain]

It's a.

[Nick]

But if he. What the captain's talking about here is if he had to tell the victims, gesture to the victims, look, I mean business. Right?

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Rack that gun, and now they are under your control. What that's going to do is as soon as he does that, that's going to spit that cartridge out the side of that. That gun, and it's going to immediately put another one in the chamber. So both could be true. He could have done that at the top of the bridge. And they may have never. Maybe he recovered it, maybe they never found it. Maybe they being law enforcement and people processing the scene.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

But he. He could have unwillingly or even unknowingly racked another one during the course of a physical altercation with one or both of the victims or in some kind of fit, done it again himself.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

With not clear memory or understanding that he did it. The thing here is the road I was going down, and I know that this is really of no use at all, but I can't help it. It's from my own obsession with this case and having looked at it so many times. You looked at it so many times. You and I have discussed this so many times. I cannot tell the listeners how many times we've talked about this case off.

[The Captain]

Mike well, and just to be honest, I think I told you the other week, I can't wait for this trial to be over and I can't wait for the election to be over because I was having a. No, I struggle with my own demons. And I was having a hard time not just sitting around and sifting through updates and listening to other podcasts and listening to, I think her name is Pat Brown, the FBI profiler. And you know, and just I, you know, not taking care of myself and because I'm so fascinated with this case, but it was making me physically sick and I, I think people have the right to question did they put on a strong enough case. But I think all this evidence is really hard to digest when we're looking at it from a bird's eye view. Want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage right [e-mail] we.

[Advertisement Voice]

Have a hoodie pre sale, so make.

[The Captain]

Sure you get those in time for Christmas. Join us back in the garage for part two. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.

[Nick]

Sa.