Emma Fillipoff /// Part 1 /// 52

Summary

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True Crime Garage – Emma Fillipoff /// Part 1 /// 52

Release Date: September 28, 2016
Hosts: Nic & The Captain

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Episode Overview

This episode marks True Crime Garage’s first deep dive into a high-profile Canadian missing person case: the baffling 2012 disappearance of Emma Fillipoff in Victoria, British Columbia. The hosts, Nic and the Captain, explore Emma’s unusual background, psychological profile, final movements, and the circumstances of her vanishing. The tone is conversational, blending meticulous detail with empathy and a dash of the hosts’ trademark banter. Part 1 focuses on Emma’s life and the day she disappeared, laying the groundwork for a broader discussion in Part 2.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction & Canadian Context

• [03:20] Nic: This is a “listener request,” noted as their “first international case.”
• The hosts joke about their prior focus on U.S. (especially Ohio) cases and share admiration for Canada.
• Brief asides about Canadian pop culture (Mike Myers, Rachel McAdams) lighten the mood.

Emma’s Background & Family Life

• [07:30] Nic: Emma Fillipoff, born 1986 in Perth, Ontario, was creative, private, “almost a bit of a hippie.” She played ukulele and had an ever-changing appearance.
• [09:01] Captain: Her eclectic looks and evolving style made her hard to recognize in photos — a difficulty in missing persons cases.
• [10:33] Captain: Emma’s family, including her parents (James, an artist; Shelley, a French teacher), divorced acrimoniously in Emma’s teens, causing family “fracture and depression.”
• Emma struggled with confrontation and competition, gravitating toward the arts and dance, but lost interest when dancing became competitive.

  Captain [12:46]: “She was non-confrontational and it just didn’t spark her interest any.”

• She dropped out, lived with older boyfriends and later returned home briefly, before entering alternative school, excelling academically, and later attending culinary school.
• Emma spent time teaching in China, then moved around, including living with her sister in Nova Scotia, reflecting an “adventurous, nomadic” life.

  Captain [14:45]: “She seemed like she had a lot of friends, but she also was a closed off individual.”

Emma’s Personality, Journals, and Relationships

• Emma journaled and emailed using poetic, enigmatic, and spiritual language — positive, but cryptic.

  Captain [15:14]: “Even her emails would be kind of poetic, but very positive, spiritual… trying to be a positive light in other people’s lives.”

• Fascinated by photography, Emma took “old-school selfies” with a camera and mirror.
• The move to Victoria appears motivated by a passion for new experiences: outdoorsy, drawn to the west coast, perhaps partly seeking a creative or alternative community.
• [18:15] Captain & [18:42] Nic: Discuss Emma’s short-lived friendship (and brief romantic encounter) with Julian, a French Canadian man she met at a music festival.

  Captain [22:05]: “He doesn’t drive a car, just rides his bike. They build up some friendship…”
  Nic [23:48]: “He says it did get romantic one evening and that seemed to dramatically change the friendship afterwards.”

• After the relationship cooled, Emma visited Julian to give in-person closure, a gesture seen as “respectful,” but also indicative of her difficulty with boundaries and permanence.

Emma in Victoria: Lifestyle & Shelter

• [34:50] Nic: Emma arrived in Victoria, BC, in fall 2011. She worked as a chef at “Redfish Bluefish,” a seasonal restaurant, and stayed off-and-on at Sandy Merriman House, a women’s shelter.
• Her living situation was nomadic: sometimes at friends’ houseboats, sometimes couch surfing, sometimes outdoors (an “Emma tree house” is referenced).
• Shelter staff noted Emma became increasingly paranoid and exhibited signs of mental health issues in the months before she vanished.

  Captain [38:04]: “After her disappearance, the staff… would say that she was exhibiting obvious signs of maybe paranoia or some kind of mental health issue.”

• Emma had apparently no (or very little) involvement with drugs.

Events Leading up to Disappearance

• [38:19] Nic: Days before going missing (Nov 28, 2012), Emma called her mother, Shelley, swinging between urgently wanting to come home and later saying she’d stay. The mother eventually decided to fly out to Victoria unannounced, guided by “mother’s intuition.”
• Emma’s family didn’t know she was staying at a shelter, nor the extent of her struggles in Victoria.

Emma’s Movements on Day of Disappearance (Nov 28, 2012)

Timeline Breakdown

• [43:22]
  • 7:00am: Emma asks Chateau Victoria hotel staff about her red 1993 Mazda van, which was towed from a nearby lot (used primarily for storage).
  • 8:23am: Emma uses her bank card at 7-Eleven to purchase a prepaid credit card; lingers at the window, seemingly looking for someone.
• [45:17]
  • ~Noon: Possible visit to the library; notable as library books were later found in her van.
  • 5:54pm: Returns to 7-Eleven, buys a prepaid cell phone, again paces and looks out the window, appearing anxious or watchful.
• [47:53]
  • 6:00pm: Visits Sandy Merriman House, then leaves soon after.
  • Takes a cab, pays with debit card; asks about fare to the airport but claims she can’t pay ($60), then has the driver drop her at a nearby hotel instead.
  • Asks to sit in the cab to warm up, but leaves abruptly when the cab radio crackles — “she seems to react to these calls, and she kind of panics or freaks out and she … hastily exits the vehicle.”

  Captain [51:56]: “She was saying, it’s too loud. The radio is too loud. And then at some point, maybe underneath her breath said, it’s talking to me.”

  • Leaves the cab barefoot, carrying shoes. Weather is cold (just above 0°C).

Last Confirmed Sighting

• [55:15] Nic: A male acquaintance, who previously met her in the library, sees Emma barefoot and upset, clutching her shoes on the street. He talks with her for nearly an hour and—feeling she’s “distressed”—calls police.
• [58:04] Police arrive and speak with Emma for about 45 minutes. She tells them she is fine, has a place to stay, and has been eating. Police determine she is not a risk to herself or others and leave her.

  Captain [59:26]: “...Think about the law enforcement. They spent 40 minutes to an hour with her and they felt comfortable to let her go.”

• That evening, Emma does not arrive at the shelter for curfew; her mother arrives in Victoria only hours later and is told that Emma is missing.

The Immediate Aftermath

• [66:37] Captain: Officially, Emma Fillipoff is declared missing on the evening of November 28, 2012, at age 26.
• The hosts remark on the tragic irony that Shelley arrived in Victoria just hours too late, her daughter having slipped through the cracks – in large part, they note, due to Emma’s inconsistent communication, growing paranoia, and possible mental health struggles.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Emma’s elusiveness:

  Nic [09:01]: “I saw several pictures that were used for missing posters… and her appearance changes a little bit… she tends to look slightly different from time to time.”

• On her family’s breakdown:

  Captain [10:33]: “At some point, the marriage is not going so great and James starts seeing a younger lady… Emma actually had to call the police on her mother. So this was obviously something that was traumatic.”

• On Emma’s journals:

  Captain [15:14]: “Even her emails would be kind of poetic, so… very positive, I would say spiritual. You know, somebody that was really trying to be a positive light force in other people’s lives.”

• On Emma’s missed opportunities & anxiety:

  Nic [41:49]: “She’s asking her mother to make arrangements, whether it be for her to go home or for Shelley to come out there. And then she’s ultimately just canceling, sometimes at the last minute, over and over again. It’s this back and forth, back and forth… should I stay or should I go?”

• On the police interaction:

  Captain [59:26]: “Think about the law enforcement. They spent 40 minutes to an hour with her and they felt comfortable to let her go.” Nic [61:08]: “They didn’t write things down as they were talking with her… There’s not an actual report that’s put together or an official report of that encounter until after we hear the result…”

• On advocating for Emma’s memory:

  Captain [68:09]: “Emma was a person that touched a lot of people’s lives and seemed like… a very positive energy source for a lot of people. And she also was somebody’s daughter. And it’s important that we talk about these cases and bring them up.”

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Suggested Listening & Further Info

• Recommended Podcast: Nighttime Podcast– especially the “Julian” interview for more insight into Emma’s mindset.

  Nic [68:17]: “If you only think you have time for one, the must listen to is the Julian interview.”

• Community Involvement:
  • “Finding Emma” Facebook group encourages public tips and sighting reports, as Emma’s appearance could be quite changeable.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:20 | Introduction, podcast’s first international case | | 07:30 | Emma’s background and family structure | | 14:45 | Emma’s poetry, privacy, and artistic lifestyle | | 18:15 | Meeting Julian, discussion of their relationship | | 34:50 | Emma’s move to Victoria; jobs and shelters | | 38:19 | Family communication before Emma’s disappearance | | 43:22 | Timeline of Emma’s final day (hotel, van, 7-Eleven visits) | | 47:53 | Cab ride incident, Emma’s behavior in Victoria | | 55:15 | Last confirmed sighting, barefoot on the street, police encounter | | 66:37 | Emma officially reported missing |

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Recap & Takeaways

Part 1 provides a richly detailed, compassionate account of Emma Fillipoff’s life and disappearance, with particular attention to her free-spirited nature, potential struggles with mental health, and the heartbreaking sequence of events leading to her vanishing. The hosts stress the importance of community, empathy, and keeping Emma’s story alive—reminding listeners that missing person cases are both mysteries and deeply human tragedies.

To learn more or help with the case, the hosts encourage listeners to join the “Finding Emma” Facebook group or review her photos in case of future sightings.

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Next Up:
Part 2 continues the investigation with theories, witness statements, and further developments. (Released the next day.)

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Transcript

[Captain]

Here's a quick podcast for all you true Crime fans. The Case of the Missing Reese's. It was me at the store with my mouth motive. They're Reese's. What was I gonna do? Stop myself? Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler I will. Wow, that had everything. Reese's, Suspense Reese's.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Nick]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick and with me a man that likes his pleasure spiked with pain. He is the captain of our musical aeroplane. Say hello Captain.

[Captain]

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. And thanks for all the support and make sure you tell a friend.

[Nick]

This week we are drinking Dirt Wolf. It's a double IPA by Victory Brewing Company Garage. Grade I give it four and a quarter bottle caps out of five.

[Captain]

And who is this beer sponsored by?

[Nick]

This week it's sponsored by our good friends that helped us fill up the fridge this week. We have Yul and S. Sunrise, Florida and Three Bridges, New Jersey. Like Yo Jib Robert in Fort McMurray, Alberta. Really nice. Jim and Linda in King Lake, Victoria, Australia.

[Captain]

Oh Aussie Jib.

[Nick]

And if you would like to help us fill up the fridge for next week, go to truecrimegarage.com and click on the donate button.

[Captain]

For everything True Crime garage go to truecrimegarage.com make sure you sign up on that mailing list. Follow us on Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, TrueCrimeGarage. We try to reply to everybody that we get. So just be patient because the social media stuff has really taken off for us.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That's right. That's right.

[Nick]

We are. The Garage has gone global. We are worldwide now, baby.

[Captain]

Well, we've been worldwide and we're just a little more popular. We're becoming the popular kids in class

[Nick]

and you got no class. But speaking of replying to emails and speaking of going global, we've had a lot of Canadian wonderful Canadian listeners request cases in this this week we are doing a Listener request. And yeah, about beautiful Canada. I believe it's our first international case.

[Captain]

Yeah. Because you keep picking cases from Ohio.

[Nick]

That's right. That's right.

[Captain]

Nobody's ever going to want to visit Ohio ever again.

[Nick]

Oh, Canada. We love beautiful Canada. Didn't they invent hockey or something?

[Captain]

Beautiful people in Canada.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And Canada has given us a lot of great things. They gave us Wayne's World. Right. Mike Myers is from Canada and one of our favorite, Michael J.

[Captain]

Fox, Celine Dion.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah, I was trying to forget about Celine Dion.

[Captain]

That's my favorite. I think they also gave us Rachel McAdams.

[Nick]

Oh, one thing I want to touch on real.

[Captain]

So if anybody knows Rachel McAdams, just let them let her know the captain said hi.

[Nick]

Okay. But one thing I want to touch on real quick here. Captain talking about the emails. You know what the number one question we get emailed to us every week?

[Captain]

I know what the number one case is.

[Nick]

Okay. So here's the number one question we get and I'm just going to answer it for everybody right now. The email that we constantly get is I'm a new listener. I love the show and I've just binge listened to everything I could find. True Crime Garage. And I've noticed that a bunch of your early episodes are missing. How can I find these and how can I listen to them? Well, you can go to the itunes store, you can purchase them there. You can go to our website, you can go to the store page and purchase them there. They are available for purchase. We hope you dig them.

[Captain]

Alright, that's enough of the business.

[Nick]

That's right. Gather round, grab a chair, grab a beer and let's talk some true crime.

[Captain]

Emma.

[Nick]

Emma.

[Captain]

In the days before she went missing, Shelly got a number of calls from her distraught daughter asking her to come out and help her move back to Ontario. But within hours, Emma would call back telling Shelly not to come. But mother's intuition told her she needed to. Without telling her daughter, Shelly boarded a plane.

[Nick]

When she got to Victoria, the shelter

[Captain]

said Emma was gone. She'd left just hours earlier.

[Nick]

Emma was last seen by two police officers walking near the harbor, just meters

[Captain]

away from where the dive team concentrated its search.

[Nick]

Today I thought that it would just

[Captain]

be a matter of time. I'd go around a corner and I would see her.

[Nick]

Now she says she knows it won't be that simple. Emma's belongings were discovered in her van. She hasn't accessed her bank account. Her mother believes Emma is suffering from a serious mental health issue and may have Gone into hiding. Police also believe she's still alive. You know, we've had a little bit of a cooling off period, maybe that she's not feeling like there's so much pressure and we're kind of hoping that we'll find her now maybe that piece will come in or maybe she'll contact somebody in the family and we'll be able to make sure she's safe.

[Captain]

But the efforts of VicPD investigators and teams of volunteers have turned up nothing.

[Nick]

Emma was scheduled to return to work at Redfish Bluefish restaurant last Friday. Her mom hoped she'd just show up ready to rejoin society.

[Captain]

She did not.

[Nick]

Haven't lost hope that that would be

[Captain]

absolutely not the case. It's just gonna take longer than I thought, I guess.

[Nick]

This week we have the mysterious disappearance of Emma Phillipoff. This was a big case in Canada. I am a little behind on this one, I must admit. I just pretty much recently learned about this case. Emma's case was and still is well covered in Canada news and media. And In November of 2014, the CBC aired the Fifth Estate documentary about Emma called Finding Emma. Emma went missing in Victoria, British Columbia, but was originally from Perth, Ontario, which is about a 45 minute drive if you obey Canadian and US traffic laws and hold a passport. So to put this in perspective for everyone, Perth is pretty much just north of New York State. And Victoria is all the way over by Vancouver, basically just north of Seattle. Emma, as said, was from Perth. She was born January 6, 1986. Emma, from listening to others talk about her and describe her, she was a creative, artistic person, from all accounts a pretty private person as well. She played the ukulele and always wore long pants. She had long hair. And she looked different to me in some of the pictures that I saw. Almost like I was even looking at a different person. You know, I saw several pictures that were used for missing posters and of her in recent years before she went missing. And she, her appearance changes a little bit. She, she tends to look slightly different from time to time to me. Yeah.

[Captain]

Which I think makes this very difficult when you have a person go missing. In past cases that we've done, a lot of the people that go missing, they, some of the problems that they have is that they have a normal look. Emma, very beautiful girl. She doesn't have a normal look. It's more artistic. But it's constantly evolving, it's constantly changing. Like you said, it's like one picture to the next. You go, well, is that her sister? Is that her?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I Don't know if it was just the pictures themselves, but some of them look to me like her hair is a little lighter. And other pictures that looks more like it's brown, you know, even maybe a dark brown or a light brown.

[Captain]

Well, some women get bored with their hair color and hair styles, so they constantly change them.

[Nick]

But it sounds like, and it appears to me that she is a very free spirited person. I almost got a little bit of a hippie vibe, to be honest with you.

[Captain]

Yeah, I think a lot of her style would be that. But it's very eclectic because she do things stylistically with her outfits where she would have more of a hippie type pants, but then more elegant top. So it's very artistic, I would say.

[Nick]

But she did not arrive in Victoria until the fall of 2011. So we have this whole other life before, way back in Perth, Ontario. And she grew up in a pretty regular family. Right. She had. She was born January 6, 1986. Her father, James, and her mother Shelley. She had two brothers and a sister, Philip.

[Captain]

All family seemed pretty normal. And like we were talking before, I believe James was involved in the arts somehow and Shelly was a French teacher. At some point, at some point, the marriage is not going so great and James starts seeing a younger lady. This causes a lot of fracture in the family. This also causes a lot of depression. And Shelley, at some point there is a confrontation. Shelley just loses it. She goes off on James. I think maybe tried to physically attack him. I'm not really for sure of the exact details, but I believe that Emma actually had to call the police on her mother. So this was obviously something that was traumatic. And anybody that has gone through the whole split of a family understands that, especially as the child. It seems like your whole world is rocked and you feel like what is up and what is down, it just kind of gets flipped around and you really start trying to. You, you don't feel like there's a sense of a core family. So you start coming up with these new rules on your own and how do you want to live your life and what is right for you? And I think this is what Emma started doing at this point. She stops regular school, she moves out of the family's home. She's not going to be living with James or Shelley at this point. Rumored to have a boyfriend that was 10 years older. So she's 16 at this time. The boyfriend's 26. She eventually is tired of all that and ask her father, James, if she can move back in now. It seems like by all accounts that James is not a confrontational person either is Emma. So she had sides of both parents, Shelley and James, but leaning on that artistic side of James.

[Nick]

Yeah. And from what I read, the other children were more involved in competition and things like sports and she was, Emma was always involved in like dance class. And at some point where once you quit learning the dance, well, you never quit learning the art. But at some point are you a dancer?

[Captain]

I've never, never quit learning the art of dance.

[Nick]

During the trailer I was chair dancing and collar popping. But at what I'm saying is you never quit studying, you never quit learning. Right. But at some point it graduated into dance competitions. And her parents, Shelly says, you know, that's when Emma seemed to lose interest in, in the dance class because she was so not into competition. She was non confrontational and it just didn't spark her interest any.

[Captain]

Yeah, I used to teach guitar students and some kids you could motivate by, you know, competition, maybe their dad played. So you wanted to try to get them better than their dad was. But some kids just did not understand competition, didn't get it. It was like, it was like this foreign idea that made zero sense. She seems like one of those souls. So when she moves back into the house, you know, instead of going back to regular high school, she ends up going to alternative school. She gets high marks. She seems like a very, you know, not only artsy, but very intelligent individual. And then she ends up getting some scholarships and going off to school, I believe for culinary arts. And I think all the nomadic lifestyle and the whole idea of finding out what the world has to offer kind of stem from the separation of the family. And that's just my viewpoint on it. So after the culinary school, I think like you were mentioned that she taught English in China for a while.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think that was pretty brief. It was just a matter of a few months.

[Captain]

Yeah. And then she comes back and then she's kind of him hauling around and I think.

[Nick]

And she did live with her sister at some point in Nova Scotia. So we're already seeing this in and out of the home. And she's already not only in and out of the home, but adventuring off into these, these foreign places, into these different areas of life and lifestyle. Yeah.

[Captain]

And she seemed like she had a lot of friends, but she also was a closed off individual. She didn't share everything, which I think is a pretty interesting quality to have. You know, she journaled a lot and from all accounts of her journals, it seemed like it was Very poetic. So it was like you could read something but you're, you're going, is this,

[Nick]

what does this mean? Right. Does it mean A, does it mean B, you know, and this will come

[Captain]

back later and we'll talk more about this. But even her emails would be kind of poetic, so. But very positive, I would say spiritual. You know, somebody that was really trying to be a positive light force in, in other people's lives.

[Nick]

Yeah. And somebody that was really taking it all in as well. And, and you know, those poetic readings can be hard to read. You know, as you said, what, what are you referencing in those actual topics? Are you, are you expressing your inner feelings? Are you expressing something that you're seeing. Experiencing? It's tough to say.

[Captain]

Yeah. And she, she actually went and studied photo photojournalism for a while. Wasn't really too much into the journalism part.

[Nick]

Yeah, that's a kind of a cutthroat industry. The journalism part.

[Captain]

Yeah. Maybe some of that not being confrontational one, not being competitive, maybe that's just something that turned her off of it. But she was still really interested. And photography, which is interesting about this whole stuff because when you Google images of Emma, you'll find a lot where she's taking selfies, but not, not the selfies we know of now, where you take it on your phone. She's taken actual like old school selfies where she's taking a picture in the mirror and you can see the old school camera that she's using. So now she's in Perth and she's going to make a pretty dramatic shift in her life. She's going to travel pretty far across, across the country. Like we said, she's in Perth, which is a little bit above like New York City. Like if you're looking at the map of the United States and she's going to go all the way to Victoria with the west coast. Is the west coast. And this is around the Seattle area. Like above Seattle?

[Nick]

Yeah, very near Vancouver. Just above, just north of Seattle. Why would she be making this move? It's kind of tough to say. I don't even know that her parents know 100 why she moved out. It appears to me that she may have always wanted to venture off somewhere, that she was probably intent on moving somewhere, changing her life, setting up her adult life and, and living a certain kind of lifestyle. I don't know if she just picked a random place or if there was something that drew her to that area.

[Captain]

Well, and she might have also just had a bucket list of all these different lives that she wanted to live. And maybe one of those was on the west coast of. In the west coast of the country.

[Nick]

And she was an outdoorsy person. I would say that, you know, we talk about long walks and things like that.

[Captain]

Spiritual, a little hippie and kind of a little bit of a tree hugger.

[Nick]

And I think that Victoria was a bit of a place that people like that tended to end up.

[Captain]

Well, kind of like Seattle. You know, Seattle is a great place for, you know, you know, keep Seattle weird. So if you're a little, little different, you know, you want to be around the different vibes. I think that's what she might have been searching for.

[Nick]

But before she moves out there, there is this relationship or friendship that she gets involved in. And some have referred to it as a relationship, a maybe a romantic one.

[Captain]

Some people call it acquaintance, and some

[Nick]

people just simply call it a friendship.

[Captain]

Yeah. And I, I. Here, here, I'm just going to throw it out there. I think it was a friendship or, you know, I think it was a little more than just an acquaintance.

[Nick]

And who is this person?

[Captain]

His name is Jillian. And how they meet. Is there a music festival?

[Nick]

Yeah, they're at a music festival. And Julian says that he saw Emma. She was in a. Like a booth. You know, they have. They had booths there for different artists, and you could. You could view their art, you could purchase their art. And this was a photographer, and he. He kind of pretends like he's really interested in the photographer and in their booth and the art. But it sounds more like he was just going to that area because he noticed her from afar and thought, you know, well, here's an attractive girl that I'd like to talk to.

[Captain]

Well, let me break this down for all the women listeners, right? This is how it works in men's head.

[Nick]

I think they know how it works, but go ahead.

[Captain]

Well, well, first of all, all men are dumb. Let's start with that idea. But normally the way it works is that men are so visual that the whole idea of love at first sight, that's a man thing. Right. Because we just. So I believe Julian saw Emma from across the way and just was like, I got to get to know her, and I. A little sappy. But, you know, I think this guy was maybe a little bit of a loner, maybe didn't get a lot of attention his way from the ladies. I'm just speculating at this point, but he sees this girl that he just is fascinated with and he wants to get to talk to her. And she happens to be at a photography booth. So guess who's going to go act like they're interested in photography.

[Nick]

Exactly. Well, it is a multiple day festival, so, you know, who knows, Some people try to hook up at these things. We don't know his intent, but we do know that he says that he goes to the photographer's booth with, with the idea that hopefully he will talk to this girl or she might talk to him. And so he's in there and he's pretending he's somewhat interested in the art.

[Captain]

But that's a typical male though. I really hope she talks to me. Yeah, like just get, just make the move.

[Nick]

So he's telling the photographer that he would like to set up a time where he could go to her gallery and maybe view some of her art, maybe purchase some of it. Get to know.

[Captain]

Yeah. And at this point they're in a conversation together. So it's kind of like she's had. He's having a conversation with the photographer, but Emma's kind of involved in the conversation.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's kind of a good easy way to meet the girl that you spotted from across the way. And at some point she asked him if he's going to go in to see the band that's going to play inside. And of course the answer is yes. Right. When the girl you're hoping to talk to asks you if you're going to go somewhere, the answer is always yes. So it was at this festival that they sparked up this friendship. And he told her that he intended to go and take a bike ride to see the photographer and talk more about her art and view more of it. And she says, Emma says, well, this sounds like a great idea. You know, I could go with you. How about we go tomorrow?

[Captain]

Yeah. And it's pretty interesting because this, this guy is a little bit of an interesting bird. I like parts of his jib, I can say, because he doesn't drive a car. He's just not driving a car. He's into bike riding his bike, which is cool. And so they start hanging out, they build up some kind of friendship and

[Nick]

they don't actually go see the photographer the next day like Emma had wished because obviously the photographer is going to stay on for the remainder of the music festival, which is to last again until the next day. So. But what he says ends up happening is instead they go canoeing and that they had a pretty good weekend. And he said that it wasn't until maybe a week later that they saw each other again. He describes their Relationship as pretty much a friendship that they enjoy doing things together. They seem to have some things in common and some similar interests.

[Captain]

Yeah. And he's a French guy, so some of his. When you. There's a really cool interview with him that, that the listeners should check out that you'll go. And we'll go into more detail. That interview goes into more detail than we will. But he. Some of his French gets lost, like as far as the translation is a little off. So, you know, he says, well, I don't know if it was a crush. It's definitely an infatuation. Right. He's infatuated with this girl. He. He believes that she's a very pretty individual. She's given him a little attention and all, by the way, she's a little bit of a horse of a different color. So that's fascinating.

[Nick]

And he says that she pretty much only like she wants to go on walks. Like that's. And she wants some company on these walks. And that's what they primarily did on the times that he met up with her and through the course of their friendship. And he did say that it. According to him, it did become romantic one evening. And then.

[Captain]

And we don't know exactly what that means. Maybe it was just a kiss. Maybe we're not for sure.

[Nick]

No, we don't. We're not going to give the play by play because we don't know. But he says it did get romantic one evening. And he said that seemed to dramatically change the friendship afterwards. That she had expressed to him that she was going to be leaving town, that she was moving to live elsewhere, and that because of this she didn't want to get into any type of relationship with him.

[Captain]

Right. And I think some of this possibly could stem from the relationship going south with her mother and father. She might have some issues there also. Possibly Emma comes off as a. As a person that doesn't want to make any plans. And I wonder if that stems from the idea that you have this family structure and then it gets fractured and that changed everybody's life course. And I wonder if she's just afraid to make plans because then those plans get. Could get ruined.

[Nick]

I also wondered if it was one of two or if not both things. Was she so dead set on leaving town that she didn't want to have anything to keep her there or did she. Was she leaving town to. To live a different life and didn't want anything from her past life tagging along to this into this new world that she's venturing off in, yeah, we have this relationship, and it took off somewhere, and after a romantic advance or romantic encounter, at some point, we have Emma saying, no, we got to call this off because I'm moving and we're not going to have a relationship.

[Captain]

She.

[Nick]

You know, this doesn't sit well with Jillian.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He.

[Nick]

He is. He likes her, and he's probably wondering, oh, what happened to this friendship now?

[Captain]

And possibly he could just be going, okay, yeah, we made a mistake. We shouldn't be like a romantic couple. But he still wanted her in her and his life.

[Nick]

And it sounds like to me that this relationship took place over the course of a few weeks and that they had only seen each other maybe 10 or a doz times. So where it may have meant something for him, it may have meant something totally different to her. We know she's planning on leaving and. But he wants more answers. You know, he's. That's not good enough. You know, and sometimes you do need to be told, hey, you know, he

[Captain]

wants closure on some level.

[Nick]

So he calls and he wants. He wants further explanation why there's no friendship anymore. And she basically tells him the same thing.

[Captain]

But also, what's interesting is James actually picks up the phone.

[Nick]

Well, not on this. Not on this call. There. There's a first call where she tells him not to call anymore. I wish you would not call anymore. And. And then you're right, he does call again. And at this point, James picks up the phone and he says, you know, Julian, he already. She already said not to call her anymore. And he explains to the father the same thing that he said to Emma on the first call. And then she does hop on the phone, and she is a little more polite about it this time where it's, you know, kind of lets him down easy, I guess. And he says he felt better and he was. Felt like he was going to be able to move on at this point.

[Captain]

Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes you have these breakups, even if it's just a friendship where, you know, somebody is a positive, positive light in the other person's life and the other person doesn't really need the other person around. So what becomes interesting here is, so he feels like, okay, yeah, well, that's more closure. I get it. Okay. She was a really cool girl, but now she's not going to be in my life. And then the next day, Emma shows up at his house. And I respect this because it's this idea of, yeah, well, I should have talked to you face to face. I shouldn't talk to you on the phone. You deserve better than that. They had a little bit longer and more in depth talk about this. They hugged it out and said, wish you luck. And that's. It becomes a little more interesting when she shows up the next day.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Captain]

And it's, hey, you want to go for a walk?

[Nick]

It's another one of Emma's walks.

[Captain]

And now we should. I don't think we mentioned this yet, but she doesn't like to walk in shoes.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Captain]

She likes to walk barefoot. So much so that she would be rubbing the bottoms of her soles so bad that there would be almost like blood on her feet. So he explains that he goes on this walk with her and she's playing her ukulele. She only knows about one chord and she's plunking away. Then basically he makes some silly remark because she wears the same. She has these like famous pants that she wears these like hippie style pants. And he makes this remark about it that she gets a little upset. She wants to finish the walk.

[Nick]

Yeah. Something to the fact of, you know, why, why don't you ever wear dresses? Or you, you know, you seem to wear the same thing all the time. Some remark along those lines.

[Captain]

So she finishes the walk by herself. And now we're kind of back to where we started because. Or, you know, there were friends, then they kind of broke up and then they're going to not be friends anymore, but everybody's okay with it. And now we're on a walk again, we're friends, but now she gets upset. And so kind of a whirlwind for a guy that has such a. A fascination with Emma.

[Nick]

Well, but the simplicity of it is, it sounds to me like she has plans. He doesn't have any plans.

[Captain]

No, he has plans. I mean, he's going to school. So at this point, Emma is going to. The friendship is severed. It didn't get the clean closure like Julian wanted. And now Emma is going to head off to Victoria. And at this point, Julian is going to stay and finish school. And now it's time for Groons.

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[Nick]

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[Nick]

Emma Filipoff arrives in Victoria from Perth in the fall of 2011. She had several jobs in the year leading up to her disappearance, but she did work as a chef while she was in Victoria. She worked at the redfish bluefish.

[Captain]

One fish, two fish.

[Nick]

Thank you Dr. Seuss. Where I guess she was like a seasonal employee, but it sounds also like this was just a seasonal restaurant. She left the job October 31, 2012.

[Captain]

She did say that she technically didn't leave the job, but the job stopped for the season.

[Nick]

They closed. And she did say that she intended to return when the restaurant would open again after the winter months. Emma had been staying at the Sandy Merriman house. This is a women's shelter and it's a off and on situation for her since about February of 2012. And when I say off and on, I believe they had a month in and a month out policy. But you could return after your month out and you could stay again for another month.

[Captain]

Yeah, there was a lot of speculation that she was there most of the time, but it seems like she was a wanderer in Victoria. She would stay at friends houseboats, possibly even staying underneath the tree. There's mention of even a Emma tree house.

[Nick]

Well, and there was some couch surfing. I'm sure that was involved, you know, staying with friends or maybe co workers. But she would end up from time to time, you know, month here, month there at this women's shelter. And, you know, this is a place where, you know, they take in people that need a place to stay. And sometimes, you know, when you have a women's shelter, it's because some people are seeking refuge from a domestic violence situation or they've been thrown out of their homes for whatever reason. But, you know, these are. These are people in a need of a place to stay. Some of them just homeless. Some of them are taking advantage of a. Of a free situation, I guess.

[Captain]

And there were some interesting things happening at this point. We're going to talk a little bit later about these surveillance tapes that you'll see Emma on the day that she goes missing. But there's some accounts, there's some stuff going on with her mentally. But when she writes home to family members, she's always talking in poetry. So everything's really kind of cryptic and, you know, but it's always light, airy, very positive, upbeat kind of tone to it. So at this shelter, she actually took all the electronics, the tv, the radio, clocks, stuff like that, and they. She puts it out in the yard. And then they say to her, this stuff can't go out in the yard.

[Nick]

Yeah. And these are not her things.

[Captain]

Right. These are the shelters property, and she takes them out. They said, you can't do that. And so instead of returning to them, I believe she either put them in a bush or she just put them around. Like, she didn't put them back where they belonged. And just a couple weird things like that that would happen.

[Nick]

And after her disappearance, they would. The staff at the shelter would say that she was exhibiting obvious signs of maybe paranoia or some kind of mental health issue going on with Emma.

[Captain]

And it didn't seem like there was a lot of drugs involved. Like, I mean, I couldn't find anything that, like, would state that she liked certain types of drugs or anything. So this, to me, seems like some kind of psychosis going on.

[Nick]

Just days before her disappearance on November 28, Emma had called her mother, Shelly, asking if she could come home. And of course, her mother was ready to help. Now, I should point out that we already talked about that. Her parents were split up, so she's just reaching out to one parent and saying that she would like to come home. Her mother, Shelly, is saying, you know, I'll. I'll buy you a plane ticket. And then Emma's calling back or. Or saying, you know, I'm not ready to come home yet. There's too many things for me to take care of. There's a lot of back and forth between her and her mother about her coming home, her not coming home.

[Captain]

Well, what's interesting is with her having this artistic spirit and her dad being involved in the arts in some fashion, it seemed like maybe she was closer personal personality wise to her father, James, but, you know, it's your mother. So when you. To me. And this is different for every family, but most of the time, if the son is having trouble and he needs help, he calls his father. If the daughter is having trouble, she calls the mother. So the first call comes in, she says, hey, I need some help, and then calls right back, no, I'll take care of it. And. And at this point, Shelly is talking to the family members, saying, hey, I talked to Emma and they said, hey, well, if she said she'll take care of it, you don't need to go. So she said, okay, I'm not going to worry about it until it happens again.

[Nick]

Yeah. Because at one point she stops this. I'm. I need to come home, you know, and she's saying she's got to tie up loose ends beforehand. But now she's asking if Shelly would come out there and help her with. With tying these things up and gathering her things to help her return home. So there's these conversations of, I'm coming home or could you come out and help me?

[Captain]

Well, and Emma's not being forthcoming with exactly what she's doing all the time. So it's like she's off on these adventures and she's riding home, like I said cryptically. So Shelley, at this point, really kind of has no idea how much trouble she's in or if she is in trouble. Just my daughter's calling, saying, I'd like to come home.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Nick]

She doesn't know that she's in trouble. And actually the family doesn't know that she had been staying off and on at this women's shelter.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

So Shelly's now in a situation where she's booking plane tickets to get her daughter home. She's booking plane tickets to get herself out to Victoria to bring her daughter home. And this is, like we said, it's not a short trip. This is a. This is a big flight, you know, and Shelly would have to make arrangements to go out there. She has family and responsibilities back in Perth that she needs to take care of.

[Captain]

And she's going across the whole country.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I think she even had a pet, you know, that needed to be watched and, and a, a child that was still living at home. And so this would be, this would take some arranging to go out there and get her daughter. We're seeing this situation. Captain, is this anything like the on and off again thing that we saw with Julian back in Perth before she left? I mean we see this within a handful of days. She's asking her mother to make arrangements, whether it be for her to go home or for Shelley to come out there. And then she's ultimately just canceling sometimes at the last minute, over and over again. It's this back and forth, back and forth between, you know, should I stay or should I go? Kind of situation where I think she

[Captain]

kind of is just lost really. And, and so if you're calling your, your family members for help, there's, there's a possibility where she's calling and feeling better, like, okay, my mom's going to come help me. But then maybe getting some anxiety or like I said, if there's some psychosis going on that she, I mean, who knows at this point?

[Nick]

Ultimately, Emma's mother, Shelly, she decides that she would just go ahead and head out to Victoria. Unbeknownst to Emma, she was going out there. And we can only assume that she was going out there to check on the well being of her daughter and to see if for herself if Emma needed to come home or needed any help while she was out there. Let's break down the movements and what we know about Emma and what she was doing on the day that she disappeared. This is November 28, 2012. Emma talks to the hotel staff at the Chateau Victoria. This is a hotel. Just after 7am she had her van. It was a 1993 Mazda MPV, red in color. And it is believed that she was primarily using this van for storage. Now this does make sense because sometimes at these shelters or homeless shelters there are, there's thievery that would take place and having a vehicle or a place to store your things would be great, you know, to keep those items, whether they have monetary value or just simply value to yourself.

[Captain]

I couldn't find anywhere like any record that whether or not this van worked.

[Nick]

That was what I was most curious about because that would be, you know, an obvious form of transportation that she would have at her disposal at any time. And you know, she parked it there. That's what I wondered. Does it work? Because they say she often parked it there, which makes it sound like this van may have moved around from time to time.

[Captain]

It worked, but it just didn't work that well. Like not enough where she'd want to take it on a. On a long road trip to drive

[Nick]

45 hours to get back to Perth. Yeah, maybe it was. It was running, but in much need of repair. She talks to the hostel, the hotel staff, because she parked in a neighboring parking lot and she had. The vehicle had been towed. It had been towed away. And we should note that the hotel is very close to the Sandy Merriman House women's shelter where she had stayed.

[Captain]

Often it seems like this community is pretty. You can get by by just walking.

[Nick]

Yeah. And after talking to this hotel staff, finding out that her vehicle has been towed, she uses her bank card at 8:23am this is at a 7 11. And this is about a block away from the hotel. She is seen on camera and she is seen purchasing a prepaid credit card. She's seen looking out the window here for what is described as a longer than usual amount of time. Almost like she's looking for someone or waiting for someone.

[Captain]

Yeah, it's a little. It's almost like she's checking to see if her ride's there, you know, and then that's where a lot of people go. Well, was she looking for somebody? Was she fearful of somebody? Was the person actually real or was it just some. Some sort of psychosis where she's just imagining somebody from here?

[Nick]

We can't say for certain, but it is believed that Emma may have visited the library around noon. And everyone will tell you that Emma often visited the library. And actually one of the things that they found in her vehicle that had been towed was some library books that she had checked out before her disappearance. At 5:54pm Emma returns to the very same 711 and she again uses her bank card a second time. This time she is buying a prepaid cell phone. And this time too, she again is looking out the window and she's pacing between the window and the door and looking out.

[Captain]

I believe on the first video, the first time she visits 7 11, that or it might even be on the second video, there's some kind of speculation that she possibly is on a cell phone, which is very strange because why would you be purchasing a cell phone if you already had a cell phone? Maybe you just wanted a backup. If you're thinking about traveling, maybe that's something you would do if you're going on some kind of adventure by yourself. There's just speculation about it. I've watched it. It doesn't look like that to me. But I mean, something to Think about as you're watching the video.

[Nick]

Well, and Emma was not known to have a cell phone, right?

[Captain]

Yeah. There was no recollection from her father, her mother, about this. That would go more with the spiritual type, hippie lifestyle. But again, we talked about the bank card. She did have a bank account, which, you know, maybe she had to direct deposit or, or something like that, which. I'm just saying, I just bring up that point because that is a little bit unusual, I think, for the nomadic

[Nick]

lifestyle to have a bank account.

[Captain]

Yeah, I would say it's just a little, little different. Like maybe where you'd want to carry more cash, maybe you'd have the bank account count, but you would want to be carrying cash more because this is, this is somebody that obviously doesn't like to make plans.

[Nick]

And her mother says that she didn't believe Emma to have a cell phone because when Emma did call her, when she did call her, she, she would get random numbers. And as a matter of fact, one of the times, at least one of the times when she called the name of the women's shelter had come up on the. On Shelley's caller id. And because it was Sandy Merriman was the name of the. Of what came up on her caller id, her mother kind of assumed that that was maybe her roommate's name.

[Captain]

Right. Or like a friend that she was staying with.

[Nick]

Exactly. She had no clue that it was the, the name of a shelter house. Emma is leaving the 711 store. She leaves there around 6pm she then stops at the Sandy Merriman house. The staff reports having seen her there and seeing her leave the Sandy Merriman house just after 6pm After Emma gets. Afterward, Emma gets into a taxi. She uses her debit card to pay for a ride. This is what turns out to be a very short ride. Early in 2013, the police were not releasing information regarding the cab ride other than to say that it was a short ride and it was only within the downtown area. Later we would learn that she had asked the driver to drive her to the airport. She also asked the driver how much the fare will be. The driver says it's going to be about $60. And Emma says that she cannot afford the ride and then asked to be dropped off at the hotel, which is downtown Victoria. And again, not more than a few blocks from the women's shelter and even a shorter distance from the 7:11 that she had visit twice that day. Emma asked the driver when they arrived to their spot if she could stay in the vehicle with. With him. For a little while, you know, and he agrees.

[Captain]

But then the she want to, like, warm up or something.

[Nick]

I imagine so, because it's pretty cold that day. And he agrees that she can stay in the vehicle. But, you know, it's just until he receives a call that he's got to go on that's going to actually pay him some money.

[Captain]

You know, this is all strange anyways, because once she goes missing and like we talked about the bank account, she had money in the bank account she could actually afforded this ride.

[Nick]

Exactly. She had, I believe, under $3,000 in her account. So it would have been plenty of

[Captain]

money to get her to 60 bucks. The weird thing is that she's calling the mom, right, I need help. Come get me. Then she's like, no, I don't need help. Okay, come get me. I need help. Nope, don't come get me. And then the day that she's going missing, that this is, you know, a very important day to break down. She asked for a ride to the airport. Was some of the thought that, well, I'm just going to go. You know what I mean?

[Nick]

She's going to go home.

[Captain]

Yeah. Why? Why would you be going to the airport?

[Nick]

Well, I. Yeah, the other thought is too. The mother says that she's heading out there, and Emma does not know about her flying out there. What's going on with her asking about going to the airport on the same day that her mother's coming in is, you know, the same thought is, you know, maybe was she going to leave and fly somewhere on her own, or was she going to greet her mother at the airport that she knew was coming in?

[Captain]

Yeah, but she didn't know the mom,

[Nick]

according to the mother, Emma did not know. We don't have Emma to ask if she knew if her mother was arriving or not.

[Captain]

Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. It could be this idea of while I meet my mom in the airport, and if I keep her at the airport, then I'll have to show her the women's shelter. I don't have to show her my van. I don't have to show her how I've been living.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I mean, it's a strange thing. I'm guessing that she wanted to arrive to the Victoria airport, international airport, which was about a 30 minute drive. So it sou like a roughly $60 fare to me. So I'm guessing that that's the airport in question. But the thing here too is she asked if she can stay in the taxi and she stays for a brief period of Time driver says, you know, yeah, until I get my next call. And then some calls start coming over on his dispatch radio, and he says that she seems to react to these calls, and she kind of panics or freaks out and she. She hastily exits the vehicle.

[Captain]

Well, that kind of goes back to that little story I was telling you about moving the. The electronics and the. In the clocks and stuff. Is. She would complain that they're too loud. Just. I think. I think she did the same thing in the cab ride was. She was saying, it's too loud. The radio is too loud. And then at some point, like, maybe underneath her breath said, it's talking to me. To me. That is a definite sign of some

[Nick]

kind of, you know, schizophrenia, psychosis, some paranoia. There's all kinds of things going on

[Captain]

that could be happening again. No drug use talk from the cab driver either.

[Nick]

No, no. He doesn't seem to think that she had been drinking or have been under the influence of anything. Now, shortly after, she's exits the vehicle. Now she is seen standing on the street, and she's barefoot. We had already said that it was very cold that day. I mean, this is. This is. Come on. It's obvious that it's cold. It's late November in Canada. We're assuming it would be cold. And I think the reports were that it was just above zero degrees that day. You know, I don't know what the temperature was at this exact time, but this was somebody that. That knew Emma. This was an acquaintance of hers. This was a gentleman that had bumped into her and met her at the library. She was. She was reading up on Japan or China or something like that, and he was reading up on the same stuff. This sparks the conversation. So they didn't know each other? Well, yeah.

[Captain]

Okay, so there's this other thing. So now we're. You're bringing in this other point. This is what, you know, makes these cases so fascinating. There's the. There's all this little tiny details that add up. So she's looking up Japan, probably China. She's going to go on a trip with her father, and she's saving up for this. So that. That goes back to the other point about the cab driver. Maybe she could afford the 60 bucks, but she's saving up for this trip that she's supposed to take with her father. So, yeah, she can afford the 60 bucks, but she's choosing not to. To save that money for that trip.

[Nick]

Mm. And I'm assuming that even a flight from Victoria to Perth or near Perth, however close you can get by airport is probably not super cheap either. It might not cost thousands of dollars, but it's probably several hundreds of dollars.

[Captain]

And for somebody that doesn't like to plan, maybe that was one of her ideas for calling her mother. Well, if I have my mother come out here and get me, then she will play. She'll pay for the plane ride home, and I can still store my money for this trip that I want to take.

[Nick]

So this person that knows her, this guy that knew her just from that one encounter at the library, and he says.

[Captain]

Acquaintance.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah. He doesn't say we have any kind of relationship or anything like that. It was a one time thing that they had.

[Captain]

I, it might be more than that because he said he recognized her and he knew her. Yeah, but he just wasn't like we didn't. I just think he's met her more than a. A couple times. Whether that doesn't really matter. What it comes down to is you run into this person that you, you know their actions, you know their demeanor.

[Nick]

He knew her by name and recognized her. Standing on the street in very cold temperatures, barefoot, clutching her. She's kind of holding her shoes to her chest.

[Captain]

Yeah. And he goes and talks to her.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And actually he calls her by name. He comes up to her and he says, hey, Emma, is everything all right? You know, because I'm sure she probably looks out of place. You know, she probably looks distraught. At this point, we know that she was scared or seemed to be scared by the, the chatter coming over the dispatch radio.

[Captain]

Well, I mean, if you saw anybody just walking around holding their shoes, wouldn't you think something's up?

[Nick]

Yeah. And he says that she doesn't seem to recognize him, that she doesn't seem to know who he is. Now at some point she, she opens up a little bit and she, she, maybe, maybe she recognized him after some talk. But he said that he talked with her and spent almost an hour with her. But because of her actions and because of the, some, some of the things that she is saying, he's very worried about her. He does not have a cell phone. I guess Victoria is the kind of place where there's just nobody with a cell phone. So if they're, if you're in Victoria, I guess nobody's hearing this on their smartphone.

[Captain]

1 no, I don't think that. I don't think that's how. I don't know.

[Nick]

I'm joking.

[Captain]

Right. But. Well, he doesn't have one.

[Nick]

So this guy doesn't have one. And, and Emma apparently didn't have one as well. So that's two out of whatever.

[Captain]

Well, it's like. It's like Seattle, you know, it's like, keep Seattle weird. Keep Victoria weird. Right.

[Nick]

So he goes to a nearby place and he calls 91 1. He calls the police.

[Captain]

They arrive, which I commend him for, because, I mean, most people. How many times have you run into somebody from high school and he just went, this. This dude is off his rocker.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Captain]

And then he never thought twice about it. You just walk right past him like, oh, good. Good thing I'm not friends with that guy.

[Nick]

How many times? The answer is every single time. No, but. No, you're right. He. He sees that she seems to be distressed, and he. He wants to get her some kind of help. And so he's reporting this, and he probably needs to go on his merry way at some point as well.

[Captain]

Well, like you said, he talked to her for about an hour, and then the cops show up.

[Nick]

Well, and the other thing, too, is like, okay, if I'm that guy in that situation, I don't. I'm not somebody that. That I can recognize some mental illness. I don't understand it. And I'm also not trained in how to. To treat it or deal with it or to get this person the proper help. And I think his heart was in the right place. I'm going to get. Put her potentially in touch with somebody that could help her.

[Captain]

Right. And you don't, you know, whether. So sometimes you run into somebody that has an addiction problem, and then you run into somebody that has a mental issue, and sometimes they look very similar.

[Nick]

It's hard to distinguish between the two.

[Captain]

Yeah. So sometimes you're just going, is this person on something, you know, or is there just something not right in their head currently?

[Nick]

And so the police arrive and they spend what they say is about 45 minutes talking with Emma. They ask her, you know, several questions. You know, I would. I would have liked to have been a fly on a street sign that day to hear their conversation.

[Captain]

Fly on the street sign, too. But they hit you with a newspaper.

[Nick]

They say that they ask her, you know, some general questions. You know, have you. Have you been eating? Do you have a place to stay?

[Captain]

Have you ever listened to this Flies podcast? No, no, no. But it's good. There's a kind of common core type questions that they're supposed to ask to see. And the thing is, is because they can't arrest you just because you might be off medicine or need medicine, but they can arrest you if they think you're going to try to cause harm to yourself or somebody else. House.

[Nick]

Yeah. And she does tell them that she has a place to stay. She tells them that everything is fine. She says she's been eating, you know,

[Captain]

just like how you said. She said everything was fine.

[Nick]

Her mother, Shelly, has asked the police quite a bit about this conversation that they had with her daughter. She's concerned that maybe they didn't handle things in Emma's best interest.

[Captain]

And that. Look, that's hard to say as a mother. I get where she's coming from. But think about the law enforcement. They spent 40 minutes to an hour with her and they felt comfortable to let her go.

[Nick]

Well, there's a couple things here. Okay, so us, we, Shelly, everybody. Now we know the end result of. Of Emma that day. You know, we know that we. We're looking for her. We can't find her. And she doesn't seem to be around. Right. We know the end result. The officers there speaking with her at the time, and I believe there was two of them. They don't know the end result when they're talking to this person. So at some point, if she seems sane and if she seems to have her, you know, wherewithal about her, that, that, that they have to go, they have a job to do and they have other people to look after as well.

[Captain]

And also, if you're in a manic or a psychotic state, sometimes you can be very persuasive. So does that make any sense at all?

[Nick]

Oh, yeah. Well, you're exactly right.

[Captain]

So you're having this manic, you know, attack, basically, and you're in this manic state and you have this mission that you're putting your mind on and the cops are asking you and you just, you just turn it on. And maybe that's something that she was able to do. My issue with it is that we have a girl went missing and they have some kind of transcripts. I don't think it's like a full transcript of what happened. I think there's some notes because they didn't record it. I don't know what's in it. But they, but on that point, she was saying, go ahead.

[Nick]

Well, what. I just want to touch on something real quick. You're talking about. Yeah, the transcripts of what? Of their conversation with her. And I think you. You hit the nail on the head right there. It's not. They didn't. They didn't write things down as they were talking with her. They may have made a couple of notes. But I'm assuming that this is the same situation that we saw with, like, the West Memphis Three case, where we had the incident at Bojangles, and the police did go there, but there didn't seem to be anything of interest to them. So they make a couple notes. There's not an actual report that's put together or an official report of that encounter until after we hear the result. And the result is later that day, Emma is reported missing. And now. Oh, we spoke to that person. Yeah, yeah, we need to come up.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We.

[Nick]

We need to file a report, and we're going to do most of that off memory.

[Captain]

Yeah. And the case is still open. And. And the explanation that they give to Shelley is, well, if there are criminal charges that we need to press, then this is evidence that we could use in court. It won't be admissible in court if we give Shelley the records. And I just think that's kind of weird. I think that I believe, and we've seen this a lot with the Maura Murray case, with Fred Murray wanting information that I believe that there should be some kind of thing where I understand that she's an adult, but she's missing and the mom's trying to look for and maybe open up the. That line of communication a little bit bigger.

[Nick]

Here was the thing that disappointed me about the police officers. Now, I know that in this area, and I'm assuming that this holds true in most areas that the police are well aware of, where homeless people or people seeking shelter can go, and they have a general idea of the rules of those places. And, you know, but all these shelters, they have a curfew. You know, you can stay here tonight, Captain, if you. If you're here by our curfew, by 10 a. By 10pm By 9pm well, right.

[Captain]

But it's my garage. I'll stay here if I want to.

[Nick]

You. You're damn right.

[Captain]

You're damn right.

[Nick]

But what I'm getting at is. So my first thought, right, was that I was disappointed in the police because I thought, okay, here. Here is a woman that appears distraught enough for somebody that knew her to call the police.

[Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I. And they say that a lot of her answers were just yes and no. It wasn't a whole lot of conversation. Right. So my thought was, we asked her, do you have a place to stay? Yes, I have a place to stay. You know, they followed that up with, where are you staying? And it could be my bad. But my first thought was she. She was staying at the women's shelter. Well, these police would know roughly what the curfew is for that evening. And I was a little disappointed that they did not drive her there, seeing that this is a place that does offer help to people and she seems to be somebody that is in need of help. But you did touch on something there where you said maybe she could turn it on. And we don't know that she provided them with truthful answers. She could have said, I have a roommate. She could have said, I'm staying with friends.

[Captain]

I'm staying on a boat house.

[Nick]

I'm living on a boat house. And so we don't know exactly what she told her, I hope, or what she told them. Told them. Yeah. And. And I hope that had she told them that she was staying at the shelter, that they would have offered her some assistance getting there. And I know it was just a few blocks, but. But still it was very cold. Night time is setting in. And again, someone that knew her was worried enough about her, her mental state or her, well being that he called the police.

[Captain]

No, that all makes sense. But I was trying to dive into this angle that if a cop picks up another individual and it's not on a charge, that if something happens, they're not covered. So they're. So then there's a liability issue there. And I was looking. I was looking into as much as I could. I couldn't find anything concrete. But it's just like when somebody says, you know, like if you ask for a taxi ride or something, the cop can't give you a ride because there's liabilities there.

[Nick]

Right, I see what you're saying. It's not a. It's not a service that they need to provide to everybody. Emma's mother, Shelley, she arrives in Victoria the same day as we had said, that Shelley went missing. And this is.

[Captain]

She lands about three hours afterwards.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So as soon as she gets to Victoria, she goes to the women's shelter expecting to see her daughter, Emma. The staff then tells Shelley that Emma did not come to the shelter that night to stay the night. So, as we had said, these shelters have a curfew, and with some of the places they may have different curfews that could vary from time to time depending on which day of the week it is. But she didn't make it there in time for curfew to stay the night. So they don't know officially that she's missing at this point. They just know that she's not there and not welcome to stay the night.

[Captain]

Right. And they can't give Shelley that much information.

[Nick]

But it is through talks between Shelley and the staff at the Sandy Merriman house that they determine that they're starting to put things together here. And they now have to report Emma as missing.

[Captain]

So November 28, 2012, at age 26, Emma Filipoff is officially missing.

[Nick]

We have so much more to discuss about this, but we are running short on time. So this is going to have to be a part two, which will come out tomorrow. We do have some recommended reading for you though, Captain. This week we are recommending the Devil in the White City by Eric Larson. This was a big time, award winning book. I do believe that there is a movie coming out regarding this case starring the one and only me. You?

[Captain]

No, I don't think I'm in it.

[Nick]

No, it's the DiCaprio guy. He's going to be in it now.

[Captain]

He looks similar.

[Nick]

Well, there have been talks about them making this and I think they've been making the movie for quite some time. So give up on the movie and go get the book. The Devil in the White City. This is about H.H. holmes, who many regard as America's first serial killer.

[Captain]

Hey, I saw this at the bookstore too.

[Nick]

Yeah, this is a very popular true crime book and you can pick it up by going to truecrime garage.com go to the recommended page. We have our recommended books there. And just click on the Amazon banner. Purchase your book through there. It helps our show. You can buy other things through Amazon using that banner and that helps the show as well.

[Captain]

And I have a recommended listening. You want to check out the Nighttime podcast? Yes, the Nighttime podcast. Jordan, our buddy over there, he did an interview with Shelley. He did, I think two parts with Shelley. And then he talked to the Marmari guys about the Emma Filipov case.

[Nick]

Our friends as well.

[Captain]

Yeah. And then he did an interview with Julian, AKA quote unquote, the stock stalker.

[Nick]

And I'll tell you what, if you, if you don't want to go listen to all three parts of the Nighttime podcast, I recommend all three parts. They were very good. But if you only think you have time for one, the must listen to is the Julian interview. I think that's a must listen to. Right. I was just intrigued. I was hanging on his every word.

[Captain]

Yeah. And if you have any tips or thoughts on this case, they have a Finding Emma Facebook group and I suggest that you check that out. If you have any tips. I mean, maybe there's a sighting. If you think that maybe you've seen her a couple years ago. Those tips can't help them now. But that's the main reason why we're covering a case like this. You know, obviously it's for education value and it's for entertainment, but Emma was a person that touched a lot of people's lives and seemed like that she was a very positive energy source for a lot of people. And she also was somebody's daughter. And it's important that we talk about these cases and bring them up. And even though it is, you know, part of our entertainment, there is somebody missing. And if there's anything that we could do to help, that's why we wanted to do the story. It's, it's, it's been a popular case in Canada, but it hasn't been that popular in the United States. And we'll, we'll dive more into that in, in part two and at the

[Nick]

very least, go to the Facebook page so you can see what she looks like. And like I said, she looks different from time to time in different pictures. See what she looks like. You could see her walking down the street tomorrow morning.

[Captain]

Yeah. And we'll be, we'll be posting pictures on our Instagram and, and social media stuff as well. And we will see you guys tomorrow for part two of the Emma Philipov case.

[Nick]

That's right. Be good, be kind, and don't let it.

[Captain]

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[Nick]

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[Captain]

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