God’s Misfits /// Part 2 /// 831

Summary

True Crime Garage Podcast Episode Summary: "God’s Misfits /// Part 2 /// 831"

Release Date: March 26, 2025

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Introduction to the Case

In the gripping episode titled "God’s Misfits /// Part 2 /// 831," hosts Nick and the Captain delve into a harrowing true crime story unfolding in Texas County, Oklahoma. The case centers around the mysterious disappearance and subsequent murder of two women, Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelly, against the backdrop of a tumultuous custody battle.

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Background

Individuals Involved:

• Veronica Butler: A mother fighting for custody of her two children.
• Jillian Kelly: Veronica's court-appointed supervisor during a supervised visit.
• Tiffany Adams: Grandmother of Butler's children and a key suspect.
• Tad Cullum: Tiffany’s boyfriend, implicated in the case.
• Cole and Cora Twombly: Friends of Tiffany Adams, both arrested and charged.

All four suspects are reportedly members of an anti-government religious group known as God's Misfits.

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The Crime

Disappearance:

On March 30, Veronica Butler was en route to a supervised visit with her children when she and Jillian Kelly vanished. Their car was later found abandoned in the Oklahoma Panhandle, setting off alarms and sparking an extensive search operation.

Crime Scene Findings:

Upon arrival at the abandoned car, law enforcement officials discovered several unsettling items:

• Blood Stains: Found beside the car, indicating a possible struggle or assault.
• Butler's Glasses: Placed in the middle of the road next to a broken hammer, raising initial suspicions.

“When they arrived on scene, they found some things that just weren't adding up.” —Steve Buscemi [05:01]*

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Investigation and Evidence

Suspect Identification:

The investigation quickly pointed towards four individuals:

1. Adria Jolene Tiffany Adams
2. Tad Cullum
3. Cole Twombly
4. Cora Twombly

All were arrested over the weekend and charged with first-degree murder, kidnapping, and conspiracy to commit murder.

Evidence Highlighted:

• Burner Phones & Stun Guns: Adams had purchased these items, which played a role in the planned crime.
• Disturbed Dirt & Chest Freezer: A hole was dug, and a chest freezer containing the bodies was buried on private property.
• Concrete Covering: The chest freezer was concealed beneath concrete, an indication of premeditation.

“They were killed and then they were pretty much immediately placed in the chest freezer.” —Nick [13:07]*

Autopsy Findings:

• Jillian Kelly: Stabbed 16 times, primarily in the head and neck, with defensive wounds indicating she fought back.
• Veronica Butler: Details were less explicit but confirmed as a homicide case.

“She had defensive wounds, so she fought back. She was trying to cover her face.” —Nick [14:07]*

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Arrests and Legal Proceedings

Legal Charges:

The suspects face a myriad of charges, including but not limited to:

• First-Degree Murder
• Kidnapping
• Conspiracy to Commit Murder
• Removal of a Dead Body
• Desecration of a Human Corpse
• Child Neglect (specific to Tiffany Adams)

Confessional Testimonies:

• Paul Grice: Initially not among the first arrested, he confessed to stabbing Veronica 30 times and Jillian 2-3 times, believing she might still be alive. His testimony shed light on the brutality and premeditation involved.

  “He is on the stand, sobbing... He starts frenzy stabbing her until he sees the light drain from her eyes.” —Nick [35:59]*

Plea Deals and Trial Proceedings:

• Cora Twombly and Paul Grice waived their rights to speedy trials and pretrial hearings, indicating they might testify for the prosecution in exchange for lighter sentences.
• Current Status: As of September 2024, five individuals are charged and expected to stand trial, with significant public and legal focus on their motives and the extent of their involvement.

“So, Paul Grice testified so that the death penalty would be off the table for him.” —Nick [22:20]*

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Analysis and Opinions

Hosts' Perspectives:

• Nick and the Captain express deep frustration and disbelief at the actions and ongoing manipulations by the suspects.

• They critique the compromised investigation process, emphasizing the apparent arrogance and flawed planning of the perpetrators.

• The hosts underscore the tragic impact on the victims' families and the systemic failures that allowed such a conspiracy to unfold.

  “I think the death penalty would be on the table for Tad Cullum, Tiffany Adams, and Paul Grice.” —Nick [43:23]*

Community Complicity:

The episode highlights a broader commentary on community and systemic oversight, suggesting that multiple layers of complicity and negligence contributed to the tragedy.

“I can't tell you guys how many sleepless nights I've had just thinking about this case... what was going on with Tiffany Adams.” —Nick [45:28]*

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Conclusion

The "God’s Misfits" case serves as a chilling reminder of how personal vendettas, religious extremism, and custody battles can culminate in unimaginable violence. Nick and the Captain of True Crime Garage call for justice, hoping that the legal system will hold the perpetrators accountable while mourning the lives lost and affected. The episode underscores the necessity for vigilance, community support, and systemic reforms to prevent such tragedies in the future.

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Notable Quotes:

• “An absolutely brutal crime, a crime committed over custody.” —Adria Goins [04:39]
• “They had to have been convinced that these... they're not above saying that we need to take things into our own hands.” —Steve Buscemi [19:57]
• “Recovery is possible...” —Steve Buscemi [52:09] (Note: This is part of an advertisement and thus was not included in the main summary.)

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Additional Resources:

For listeners seeking more information on similar cases or to support the True Crime Garage community, the hosts recommend visiting their website truecrimegarage.com and exploring their bonus content available through Apple Podcast subscriptions or Patreon.

Transcript

[Steve Buscemi]

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[Nick]

Media in association with Olive Productions, comes Big Time, an Apple original podcast.

[Steve Buscemi]

Each episode follows the story of one misfit with big dreams who isn't afraid to bend a few rules or take.

[Nick]

A short shortcut to get there.

[Captain]

Well, who steals bees? I was duped.

[Adria Goins]

I shoot you in the leg.

[Nick]

This is Big Time.

[Steve Buscemi]

Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me, as always, is a man who knows that True crime garage is 400 horsepower of maximum performance. Here is the captain.

[Captain]

Maximum performance was my middle name in high school. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Steve Buscemi]

Today we are still finishing off this wonderful west coast pilsner called Marble Madness by the good folks at Central Standard Brewing. It's basically a pilsner that is bigger in body and heavily hopped. This one has citra mosaic plus two more kinds of hops, resulting in a clean and crisp pilsner with a big American hop flavor that we all love. ABV, 6.8% garage grade three and three quarter bottle caps out of five. And here's a cheers to our friends helping us this week. First up, a cheers to Tammy Holvorson from Pudica, Kentucky.

[Captain]

And a big we like you, Chip goes out to Christina in Windsor, Colorado.

[Steve Buscemi]

Next, here's a cheers to John Larson in Victor, Idaho.

[Captain]

And a big talk hands in there goes to Jimmy. And Louisville, Kentucky.

[Steve Buscemi]

Here we go. We have a cheers that goes out to Karen and the cats in parts Unknown retirement district. And last but certainly not least, we have a big cheers to Lexi's Pizza in Kelso, Washington. Everyone we just mentioned, they helped us fill up the old garage fridge this week. Some of them were eating pizza when they did it and for that, we thank you.

[Captain]

Yeah, BWW and Beer Run. Make sure you go to YouTube and check out True Crime Garage TV and Colonel, that's enough of the business.

[Steve Buscemi]

All right, everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Tragedy in Texas County, Oklahoma. We're learning new details in a case involving two missing moms from Kansas.

[Adria Goins]

Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelly vanished March 30, their car found abandoned in the Oklahoma Panhandle.

[Steve Buscemi]

Four people have now been arrested in the case, including the grandmother of Butler's children.

[Adria Goins]

News4's Adria Goins breaks down the new information for us. Adria Jolene Tiffany Adams, one of the four people arrested in this case, had custody of Butler's two children. Court documents confirm A problematic custody battle is the focus of this murder case.

[Nick]

You have two people who are, who are dead and four people that committed.

[Adria Goins]

An absolutely brutal crime, a crime committed over custody. According to court records, Veronica Butler was on her way to a supervised visit with her kids when she and Jillian Kelly, her court appointed supervisor, disappeared in rural Texas. County family finding Butler's car abandoned after they never returned home.

[Steve Buscemi]

When they arrived on scene, they found some things that just weren't adding up.

[Adria Goins]

According to court records, deputies found blood beside the car, Butler's glasses in the middle of the road next to a broken hammer, sparking an extensive search.

[Steve Buscemi]

It took everybody in this case to get this done.

[Nick]

We know that there were people throughout the two week process who were frustrated, who wanted answers as soon as possible. You know, we wanted those answers too. We're probably talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 law enforcement officers.

[Adria Goins]

Truly, no exaggeration, the investigation pointing to Adams, her boyfriend, Tad Cullum and Cole and Cora Twombly, all four arrested over the weekend, charged with first degree murder, kidnapping and conspiracy to commit murder. Court documents show the attack was planned, stating the four were part of an anti government religious group known as God's Misfits. The Twomblies telling their teenage daughter they would be gone the day the women went missing for a mission. According to the affidavit, in the weeks before, Adams purchased burner phones and stun guns. Those burner phones pinging close to private property where investigators found fresh dirt work, a hole that had been dug up, filled back in and covered with hay, likely the spot where the two bodies were found. Although court documents also show this was not the first time Adams planned to kill Butler. Back in February, the group reportedly wanted to throw an anvil out of the back of a truck into Butler's windshield, making it look like an accident. Butler never left her home that day. Osbi Says it's still waiting on the medical examiner to determine the ID of those two bodies found and the exact cause of death.

[Nick]

An absolutely brutal crime.

[Adria Goins]

First degree murders, kidnapping, and conspiracy to commit murder. Court documents show the attack was planned, stating the four were part of an anti government religious group known as God's Misfits.

[Steve Buscemi]

Do the arrests take place before the bodies are found or the bodies found first?

[Nick]

Yeah. So it's interesting. The arrest happens on April 13, and four people are arrested here. So Tiffany Adams is arrested, her boyfriend, Tad Cullum is arrested, and their two friends, Cole and Cora Twombly are arrested. As a confidential witness. Is Cora Twombly's daughter from her previous marriage. So confidential witness. Her testimony was what led to these arrests. And a day after the arrests is when, unfortunately, Veronica and Jillian's bodies were discovered.

[Steve Buscemi]

But this is the part that is okay, so we have four people who are arrested and really, it feels like, again, just another incredibly flawed plan to end Veronica's life and make her disappear for good. But a big part of that whether. Whether it would have been Veronica's family to sound the alarm or not. Jillian Kelly is the supervisor of this custody visit. They go looking for those people. I mean, so it seems to me like the. The plan to get rid of Veronica is. And pardon me for saying so, it's as simple as it's get rid of veronica and a plus one, whoever that may be. On this day, March 30, how do we get to finding the bodies? Because as flawed as this plan seems on the surface to me, they went to great lengths to try to make it so that neither of these people would ever be found again.

[Nick]

Yes, they did. And Veronica and Jillian's phones eventually were found eight and a half miles away on a random property owned by this man, Jamie Beasley. And Jamie Beasley was interviewed by the osbi, and he's like, what the hell's going on? He starts to get nervous, and this is before the arrests, but he ends up telling the osbi, well, Tad Cullum, he rents my property. And Tad Callum actually came to me a few days ago and said, hey, can I do some work for you here? And, you know, pull up some tree stumps and do a few things on your property? And he said, yeah, okay, sure, if you want to clean up certain things, go ahead. So Tad had rented a skid steer, and the skid steer was on the property, and there was some disturbed dirt. So Jamie Beasley immediately was like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be a suspect. Here. What the hell is happening?

[Steve Buscemi]

This is not our first experience with the skid steer on this show, unfortunately, but there is. So we now have the boyfriend, Tiffany Adams, boyfriend, who is going to be doing work on this large property, this rural property. This is going to lead to a search and a dig by law enforcement. Correct. And, and what do they find?

[Nick]

Yes. So law enforcement had to dig about 10 to 12ft underground. And what they found was a chest freezer. And inside that chest freezer were the bodies of Jillian and Veronica. And lots and lots of evidence.

[Captain]

It's not our first time dealing with a chest freezer either.

[Steve Buscemi]

Yeah. And from my understanding, there was concrete on top of the chest freezer. Between the surface and this chest freezer.

[Nick]

There was concrete there. Again, there was just. It was so obvious, guys. I mean, it was like. It was almost like an X marks a spot with a disturbed dirt as well. It was, it was just so stupid, like so many things about what these guys allegedly did.

[Captain]

Yeah. And obviously, because of the manner that they find these individuals, law enforcement has to think there's definitely more than one individual involved.

[Nick]

Definitely a hundred percent. This. Yeah. And. And what they found in the chest freezer and, and buried inside that hole was jeans, sweatshirts, T shirts covered in blood, gloves, a baseball cat, duct tape, a sheath, black or. Oh, I'm sorry, a sheathed black knife, also with blood on it. They saw ratchet straps, a saw handle, a black taser or a flashlight, electrical cords and black tape. I mean, it was, it was a mess. It was a total mess. And it was alarming. It was, it was just a gruesome and tragic discovery.

[Steve Buscemi]

You're finding the bodies of two murdered victims along with all of the items that were used during the commission of those, those crimes. With the. What do we learn post mortem about the. One, the, the murders. But two, I'm guessing they would have been concealed in this ice chest for some amount of time before being. Before the chest is placed in the ground.

[Nick]

The women at what I learned, they were killed and then they were pretty much immediately placed in the chest freezer. They were driven from the location as to where they were killed to the property, which took about 10, 15 minutes. And then they were placed in the chest freezer and they were lowered into the ground. That was all done on March 30th.

[Steve Buscemi]

And so they weren't killed where the car was found, even though we find a good deal of blood there at that scene.

[Nick]

They were, they were killed there. That's where they were killed. And then they were transported to this location directly from. Correct.

[Steve Buscemi]

What did the autopsies tell us?

[Nick]

Oh, boy.

[Steve Buscemi]

Guys, we can keep this as brief and vague as you would like. It does go toward us learning more about the overall plan and how detailed the plan was.

[Nick]

Yes, well, we can start with Gillian. Who. Look, both women were innocent, of course, but Jillian was. Was truly just a. An innocent bystander. You know, I mean, it was. It was so heartbreaking to see that Gillian had been stabbed 16 times. Okay, 16 times. An innocent bystander. And these stab wounds were in her head, in her neck. And she had defensive wounds, so she fought back. She was trying to cover her face. And Jillian's death was incredibly, incredibly disturbing. I. I go to the autopsy report, and it sounds like the medical examiner believed that Jillian was paralyzed. The stab wound in her spinal cord or in her back or her neck paralyzed her. And she eventually died from either that stab wound or there were final two or three stab wounds to her neck. So that was. That was. God, so, so sad and just so chilling.

[Captain]

So initially, we're law enforcement. We. We show up to this scene, we know that it's. This crime is committed by more than one individual. And then I think the autopsy and then where we find the vehicle. This all points to premeditation. So now we have to figure out who is involved.

[Nick]

Yes, correct. And, you know, I. I can get into what I know, what I know to have transpired that day, the events of what exactly happened, based on what I learned at the pre. Trial. But I think that we should wait because there. There is a lot more detail that I can fill in for you guys here. But I think that, you know, we should get to what happened to Veronica, and then we should talk about a fifth person that was subsequently arrested.

[Steve Buscemi]

Was there obvious signs or was there signs that a stun gun was used at any time during this attack? And if so, do we have. We know that Tiffany Adams was researching stun guns. Was there evidence that she had purchased one or that someone close to her had purchased a stun gun?

[Nick]

Yes. Tiffany Adams did possess the stun gun. And both women had possible. It was noted as possible stun gun marks to the back of the neck or the shoulder, which to me, indicated that they were probably running. Oh, God. It's. It's so. It's hard to even imagine. It. It just. It sounds like the worst horror movie you could ever watch. I mean, especially just looking at the. The mug shots of these defendants. Guys, it's. It's like the Devil's Rejects. I'M sorry.

[Steve Buscemi]

And what it looks to me like is Veronica thinks she's showing up to this meetup point to pick up her children. Very happy occasion. And reality is, the sad reality is she's arriving to an ambush. Yeah. And probably outnumbered. And. And the perpetrators of this ambush are prepared to move the bodies right then and there. It's. It's very strange to me that they didn't try to manipulate the scene further by moving the vehicle. I. And look, I'm not, I'm not. I'm very thankful that my opinion of most criminals are that they are. The majority of them are dumb, lazy, or sloppy. And I'm thankful that that seems to be the case because. I don't know, I'm wondering. We would have a lot of suspicion here, Lauren, but I feel like finding that car is really what. It didn't save the day, it didn't save these. These ladies lives. But it really is a powerful piece of evidence to kick off an investigation.

[Captain]

Well, I think that. And also the cell phone ping tech technology.

[Nick]

Yes. And the burner phones, they had burner phones which. Which also pinged from the property of Jamie Beasley. And. And you're correct, they are stupid criminals. But in my opinion, they are also arrogant. They think they own this town. And also, look, I. I don't know everything here, but I do know that they had, quote, lookouts. And these, these are public roads. Like, yes, it's not super busy, but possibly one of their lookouts called them and said, hey, you gotta go, there's a car coming. So they had to run.

[Steve Buscemi]

Were the burner phones found at the burial site?

[Nick]

Yes.

[Captain]

So it seems like these victims were found and everything that was found with them was what these killers thought as potential evidence that would connect them to the crime as well.

[Steve Buscemi]

But.

[Captain]

Yes, but you almost think that like you were saying, the connection. We have a prayer group turning into a murder group, but their leader. It's almost like maybe one of the ways she convinced these people to help her was I have connections with law enforcement, so even if they start looking at us, they'll turn the other cheek.

[Steve Buscemi]

She's convincing these people that these poor children are being sexually abused and that the mother is willingly allowing it to happen. And this is the only way. We've attempted to do everything legally to stop this abuse against these children. Now we have to take matters into our own hands because the kids are still being transported back to Veronica's house and, and being with Veronica's family. And as. As Lauren had told us about this God's misfits, these people with their prayer group and their. Their. Their little flock there, they. They're not above saying that we need to take things into our own hands. They're not. They don't adhere to the. The laws of the land in the way that most civilians do. And so it doesn't seem like where I think in most of our circles that we run in. The three of us here, if you brought this up, we would be locked up right away. There would be people that would turn on us right away. But here, it's very bizarre, Lauren, because it feels like this is an easy recruitment to do some very horrific, very evil acts.

[Nick]

Nick, I think you nailed it. I think that you. You nailed it. I mean, Tiffany was able to convince these people because she said, are you going to let these kids continue to be molested? And one of the defendants had said, well, I was abused as a child. So right away, I'm like, no, I'm not going to allow this. And I also have had, you know, going to what you said about her connections to law enforcement, and it just being a small town, I've had multiple sources share with me that at one point when. When Tiffany wanted her son Wrangler to get sober, she ran it by one of her friends in law enforcement and said, hey, if I lock him in my basement, is that kidnapping or is that all good here? And he was like, no, go ahead and do it. It's fine. And she literally locked Wrangler in her basement, kidnapped him for over a month. A grown man.

[Steve Buscemi]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, where this sits today, we have five individuals that have been charged and all five of them charged with murder, kidnapping, and conspiracy. Is that correct?

[Nick]

So what happened after the four were arrested? There was rumblings that a fifth person was involved. And this person, there were rumblings of that because the confidential witness actually mentioned his name. And we saw it on. On the public police affidavit. So I was thinking, well, where is this guy? This guy's name is Paul Grice. Why has he not been arrested? Paul Grice? I'm like, why has he not been arrested? Well, he apparently was finally interviewed by the OSBI on April 23, and he went back home after his interview. He admitted to everything. And I said, okay, we need to. We need to get warrant to arrest you. And he was arrested the next day on April 24th. And Paul Grice, we learned as of September of 2024, played a very, very large role in the murders of Gillian and Veronica. How so, well, Paul Grice was the one who stabbed Veronica 30 times. And then we learned that Paul Grice also stabbed Jillian Kelly two to three times in the neck. And I, I haven't gone through the events of that day according to Paul, but Paul thought to himself that Jillian was possibly paralyzed. He wasn't sure. He saw that she was blinking, but he just. He didn't know. He kind of said, well, I've seen animals when I'm hunting. They kind of twitch after they're dead. And he wanted to be sure that she was deceased. So he stabbed her two to three times in the neck, thinking that he was doing a good thing so she would not be buried alive.

[Captain]

This whole crime seems like a group of individuals that thought they were doing. Doing the right thing by doing a.

[Steve Buscemi]

Wrong thing, but also didn't think too much about how to co. Look, they had to have been convinced that these. That they were being sexually assaulted. But it feels like beyond Tiffany Adams and, and her boyfriend, the other three that were involved put very little thought into, well, how can we correct this problem with. Without resulting in killing Veronica and some other person who is completely innocent. But I guess the brainwashing technique here is convincing the three that, well, this other person can't be completely innocent because the courts are allowing this to happen as well. Not only is Veronica allowing it to happen, but the courts are insistent that they see their mother.

[Nick]

Yes, it's pretty mind blowing that these people didn't say, hey, do you have proof, Can I see some proof that this is happening before I commit heinous acts, allegedly a murder. And just to go back to these charges, guys, I. I didn't explain the charges, but all five defendants were initially charged with two counts of first degree murder, two counts of kidnapping and conspiracy to commit murder. And later, Colt Womy, Tad Cullum and Tiffany Adams also faced two charges face. I'm sorry, faced two charges each for removal of a dead body and desecration of a human corpse. And then Tiffany Adams was also slapped with two counts of child neglect. And this is due to what I believe is a surveillance video of her in a tractor supply co with her two grandchildren who are holding ratchet straps. And those ratchet straps we found in the burial site, and I believe those were the straps that were used to contain their mother's body. So in Oklahoma, neglect is putting a child in a nefarious situation or an illegal situation.

[Steve Buscemi]

So, yeah, and this conspiracy plot unravels mainly due to the witness that comes forward and shares this information. What they knew with law enforcement. But then their story is backed by the actions of the five that were involved in this conspiracy plot to murder. Right, with the purchasing and the movements and putting them together at the time of the, of the attack and putting them together at the time of the belief, time of the burial. So a lot of, of information seems to be lining up with what this witness told law enforcement right out the gate.

[Nick]

Yes, that's, that's correct. And also in, in some of the early police affidavits when Tiffany Adams was arrested, apparently she admitted to everything. And they have a recording of that, allegedly. But I want to just say something about this confidential witness. I don't want to drag a 16 year old, but I also don't want to hail her some kind of hero for, you know, coming forward after the fact when she, she knew what was going to happen. And look, maybe she didn't think that they would go through with it. Maybe she thought it would be a flop, kind of like the, the initial vice idea. I'm not sure what was going through her head, but I've, I've seen reports where she's hailed some kind of hero and I just, I don't think that should be the case.

[Captain]

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[Steve Buscemi]

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[Nick]

Yes, well, I believe that all five are, are equally guilty, in my opinion. I do. I don't care who did what. I understand what you're saying, but there was a pretrial hearing in December of 2024 and the state, they wanted to do this with all five defendants. Of course, the defendants filed different motions to have it held separately. That didn't work. Right. It'd be very costly. It would be, it would be very difficult. But what ended up happening before is that Cora Twombly and Paul Grice, they waived the right to a speedy trial and they waived the right to a pretrial hearing. So that led many of us to suspect that they had flipped and they were going to be testifying for the state in order to try and get a plea deal. And that is what happened. And I traveled to Oklahoma to attend this pre trial hearing. And that is where we learned the events from that day. We learned what happened according to Cora Twamley and Paul Grice. And what was very shocking about it is on the first day of the pre trial, you know, it was, it was just Tiffany Adams, Tad Cullum and Cole Twombly. And all of a sudden, the first day, Tiffany gets up and says, I'm waiving my right to a pretrial hearing and I'm waiving my right to a speedy trial. And I kind of looked over at Tad Cullum and he had this, this neck vein kind of pop out. Like he was not aware or he was kind of angry and, and it Was. It was pretty shocking. And then the second day of the pre trial, Cole Twombly decides to waive his right to the pre trial hearing and a speedy trial. So all you had left was, was TAD column. And in January of 2025, TAD goes and waives his right to a speedy trial and a pretrial hearing. And they, they are all due back in court for a status update or a status hearing in April and then in May of 2025.

[Captain]

So what do you think the purpose of that is? Is that to just turn on each other and try to make one individual seem more responsible than the other individuals?

[Nick]

Well, Paul Grice testified so that the death penalty would be off the table for him. This case. I mean, I don't understand or I don't see a jury listening to all of this, all of the evidence and, and not finding them guilty. I don't, that's my opinion. I just don't see how they wouldn't get death for this, because death is on the table. And Cora, she did not want her minor daughter to testify and she wanted to strike some kind of deal. And again, a judge still has to sign off on these deals. But what we have on the table so far is Paul, again not receiving a death penalty, just life in prison without the possibility of parole. And then we have Kora, who would subsequently serve 30 years, which I think is way too little. But what we learned, guys, is, is pretty much worse than I could have ever imagined. I mean, we pretty much learned from Paul Rice that Tiffany brought this white gooseneck trailer. They hooked it onto a truck, which this truck that they used, they actually borrowed from Coltrombly's cousin who's the Cimmeron county sheriff, believe it or not. It's so connected and so twisted. But they had this gooseneck trailer. And when Veronica and Jillian arrived, they were going to tell them, and they told them that the children were in the trailer with a baby calf and that Veronica and Jillian should come and see because the kids want them to. And Paul would be waiting, crouched inside the trailer with a hammer in one hand, a stun gun in the other, and a knife in his pocket. Paul described when Veronica approached the trailer with Tiffany, he jumped out and he immediately started hitting her in the head with the hammer and she started running. And he then describes how Tad and Tiffany grabbed Gillian. I mean, guys, inside that courtroom, it was one of the most disturbing, sad and terrifying moments of my life. I mean, I don't think. And this is not about me. I'm so sorry that Came out wrong. To hear him say this and to be that close to Veronica's family and Jillian's family and hear them just wailing. I mean, it was. It was awful. And Paul is on the stand, sobbing. He cannot get through what he's trying to say and convey to us. So he describes that Veronica takes off running. He is tasing her, attacking her. At one point, Veronica tases his hand, and he cannot feel his right hand. And he ends up just jumping on her and attacking her. And at some point, he just said he kind of blacks out and he just starts stabbing her. He starts frenzy stabbing her until he sees the light drain from her eyes and she's not moving anymore. And at the same time, he's describing that he hears Gillian screaming bloody murder from, you know, the corner of. Of outside the gooseneck trailer and that all of a sudden he hears a gasp and nothing else. And so he is exhausted. He describes. He rolls off of Veronica and he's laying there, and he kind of sits up and he says that Tiffany Adams then walks around him in a circle and laughs. She laughs, he said the most evil laugh he has ever heard in his life. Almost like she was admiring her work.

[Captain]

Do you think these allegations were completely false and made up by Tiffany, or do you think that she had any reason to believe that this was actually true?

[Nick]

I know they were made up. I know they were made up. I mean, I can. I can get into some of the wrongful death suits that were just recently dropped, but I had suspected this all along. Tiffany Adams on the Zimmern Memorial Hospital board. I mean, you know how boards work. They control a lot. They control the hirings and the firings of the staff. And she had. Had made it her job here to take the children to a therapist at this hospital when she wasn't even a guardian. And somehow this therapist allegedly helped her falsify these records and is saying, oh, yeah, the. The kids were abused. And I don't know. I don't know the details of, you know, how this therapist interacted with the children, if she made them. I have no idea. But what I do know is the therapist, the hospital, and the five defendants are now being sued for wrongful death. And I. I didn't say this before, but Tad Cullum allegedly was the one to stab and kill Jillian Kelly. Although his defense here is that nobody saw him with a knife and nobody saw him stab Jillian. However, I'm betting that the clothes and the evidence that were found in the burial site or. Or in the chest razor Had Tad's blood on Jillian and, and vice versa.

[Steve Buscemi]

I don't know what the situation is in Oklahoma. Every state is different with this. I have a suspicion there's multiple reasons why you would waive your right to a speedy trial. One of those in, in my, that's always on my mind is a lot of states will give you a day and a half, even two days. I think up in Canada you get two and a half days of time served for every day that you sit in a jail cell waiting for your trial to, to get to the point of trial and get to a verdict. So that could be in play here. There's probably a lot of, of strategy going on behind the scenes with the different defendants and their attorneys that, that would lend itself to wanting to waive your right to speedy trial. To me though, it looks like there's no shortage of evidence against all five of these individuals. It would be very difficult for a jury of their peers to truthfully not throw the book at them and, and throw the book at them. They should to the maximum penalty allowed. And you said that you believe that the death penalty could be on the table for one if not all five of these individuals. But this, this case, I mean, there's premeditated murder and then there's this, this is, goes beyond the standard of premeditated murder.

[Nick]

Yes, I believe the death penalty would be on the table for Tad Cullum, Tiffany Adams and Paul Grace. Hands down Paul Grice, again, most likely will not get the death penalty if the judge signs off on this deal. He, he did testify, the pre trial hearing. And if Tad, Tiffany, if, if this actually goes to trial, which guys, I don't know if it will at this point. I feel like the DA most likely wants to work out some kind of deal because as, as you guys said, what, what jury wouldn't convict them or throw the book at them. Even a bench trial I think would be, would be tough here. So I do think that everybody here wants a deal. I don't think they should get a deal. I mean, of course, unless the families agree to that. I don't know the communication, what that's been like with the families. But I just, I think that, you know, Tad Callum, he appeared to have a really flashy defense attorney. He was the only one that had a paid attorney. Everyone else used public defenders, which, which can be amazing, right? They can be incredible. But Tad seemed to be the only one to have some kind of defense that. Look, I mean, I don't see anyone buying this because of what we would possibly see, you know, with blood spatter and DNA, but. But yeah, I don't know if I can see this going to trial. I really don't, but.

[Captain]

So what's their plea deal? Most likely, they're going to spend the rest of their life in prison.

[Nick]

I would think that for Tad, Tiffany and Paul, that's a given. Now, I believe that Cole and Cora should get the same. I do. But I don't think they will. Because technically, Cole and Cora claimed that they were just the lookouts.

[Captain]

But the tough thing is we have two murder victims, so then they become the. Just the lookouts for two murders.

[Nick]

Yes, and technically, Cole helped dispose of the body. Technically, Cora handed a weapon to Tiffany Adams at the site. I mean, there's a lot more. Again, I haven't gone into the sordid, disgusting details of the whole thing, and I. I don't think we need to. I have to say, though, Cora Twombly on the stand at the pretrial hearing, she did not seem sorry, remorseful at all. She seemed. She seemed truly evil, in my opinion. Where as Paul Grice, I mean, he clearly. It's too little, too late. He's. He is. I mean, I'm just gonna say it. He's a piece of shit. Guys, I apologize. But he at least had what seemed to be remorse. He was sobbing. He said at one point he didn't care if he lived or died. He didn't even care about the deal. You know, it's so. It's the whole thing, it's awful. I mean, I. I can't tell you guys how many sleepless nights I've had just thinking about this case and thinking about the kids, Jillian's kids, Veronica's kids. I mean, this. This did not have to happen. And in my opinion, so many people were complicit in just turning the other way, looking the other way and not actually seeing or. Or preventing what. What was going on with Tiffany Adams.

[Captain]

Well, it's sad and also scary to think that their. Their religious beliefs played a. A factor in these murders.

[Nick]

Yes. And unfortunately, we're. We're seeing that more and more. You know, Lori Valo, Ruby, Frankie. I just. I'm sick of it. I'm truly sick of it. It's like, can we stop now? Like, God did not tell you to do this.

[Steve Buscemi]

A big thank you to Lauren Conlon From Pop Crime TV over there on YouTube and her fantastic Outlier podcast. Lauren became quick and fast friends with us here in the garage very recently, and we were even talking about Cases that we've covered here in the garage that she has a wealth of knowledge on. But it was so off the record, we can't even put it on our show, our subscription show, off the record. So she is a wealth of knowledge and she was a joy to talk to. I enjoyed her passion about these cases because this case in particular is incredibly heinous. We have seen this in other situations where these custody battles get way out of hand. It takes a village people to raise these kids. Let's band together and do the best for these children everywhere, to bring them up the proper way. And we have some trials that will be underway in this situation. These poor victims here, Veronica, so young, just a young mother trying to do right by her children, just trying to see her kids. And she set up and killed by these monsters, these maniacs. And I can only imagine that, that somehow Tiffany Adams was able to brainwash these others, these other idiots into formulating this plan. That thankfully it was so flawed that they left enough evidence behind and they, they left a big trail behind that we were able to get some answers quickly. But it's never going to bring back these two innocent people. Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelly. A woman who was just there to do her job. A woman that was just out there doing her job and her family is suffering now because of the evil of these God's misfits and their actions and what they chose to do. To try to bury these two and hide them and conceal them forever and keep these kids. It's really, really sickening stuff. There's trials that are about to happen here in April and it appears that a lot of these people within this group are turning on one another. I hope that it is fast and I hope that we can lock them up and throw away the key very, very soon.

[Captain]

Well, like we were talking about on the show, there is a good chance that this doesn't go to trial, that everybody just makes deals. You have to love the passion in which she is covering this case. Any, anytime somebody says that one of these idiots, these brainwashed pieces of shit, when they call them a piece of shit, you know, they're my friend because they're using my vernacular. So I guess we'll just wait to see what happens.

[Steve Buscemi]

We will be keeping an eye and an ear on the situation, that's for sure.

[Captain]

So Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners?

[Steve Buscemi]

Well, it's a little bit of recommended viewing and listening for the listeners because we have Lauren Conlon, our fantastic guest this week. And as said, she has her great YouTube show Pop Crime TV and a fantastic podcast called the Outlier Podcast. You can find that anywhere you get True Crime Garage and you can also find other great recommendations on our website true crimegarage.com just go to the recommended page.

[Captain]

Yeah and if you need more True Crime Garage for your earballs, check out our bonus content on Apple Podcast subscription or on Patreon and can't thank you enough. We would be nothing without you. Until next week.

[Steve Buscemi]

Be good, be kind and don't live.

[Nick]

Substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so as a black woman in recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens you will be okay. When we learn the power of hope.

[Steve Buscemi]

Recovery is possible, find out [e-mail] brought.

[Nick]

To you by the National Council for Mental Wellbeing, Shatterproof and the AD Council.