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Jason Landry /// Part 2 /// 861
01:03:41
Jason Landry /// Part 2 /// 861 Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com This is another one of the those “Missing in Texas” stories. True Crime Garage has covered a bunch of missing persons cases from the great state of Texas and all of them are strange. This is the type of case that it is easy for your imagination to run a little wild on. There is no shortage of theories as to what exactly happened to this young man. 21 year old Texas State University student Jason Landry went missing on December 13th-14th, 2020. There is one very critical hour of movements and events that is missing from the timeline for Jason’s case and that starts 31 minutes before midnight and goes to 31 minutes after midnight. There is a reward available in this case. Know something? Call the Texas Attorney General at 512-936-0742 or call anonymously 726-777-1359. Jason’s case and story are on all of the major social platforms - @findjasonlandry Beer of the Week - Swish (sour beer) by Rusty Rail Brewing...
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Your new beginning starts now. Dr. Horton has new construction homes available in Ellensburg and throughout the greater Seattle area. With spacious floor plans, flexible living spaces.
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Learn more at Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder. It's the Smuckers Uncrustables podcast with your host Uncrustables. Okay, today's guest is rough around the edges. Please welcome crust. Thanks for having me. Today's topic, he's round with soft pillowy bread. Hey. Filled with delicious PB and J. Are you talking about yourself? And you can take them anywhere. Why'd you invite. And we are out of time. Are you really cutting me off?
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B
Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich. Sorry, Crust. Sam Foreign.
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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick and with me, as always, is a man who dances for the late shift. Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain and I go full monty.
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B
It's good to be seen. Good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.
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A
Today we are sipping swish by Rusty Rail Brewing Company. It's a Swedish fish inspired sour beer. I gave it three and a half bottle caps out of five. And if you know me, I don't particularly like sour. So if I gave it a garage grade of three and a half and you like sours, you're probably going to love this one. I do however love Swedish fish. So that of course carried some of the weight Here again, that swish by rusty rail garage. Ray, three and a half bottle caps out of five. CrimeCon is only about one month away. Maybe we will see some of these fine folks right here who donated to the beer fund at this year's Crimecon. First up, a cheers to Heather Ramage from Payson, Arizona.
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And a big we like to jib goes out to Marty from Chicago.
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Next up, a cheers to Deb in Southeast Virginia.
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And a big talk Hands in the air goes to make from Brighton, Michigan. Boo Boo. Michigan.
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And last but certainly not least, here's a cheers to Tom from Skull Valley, Arizona. Everybody we just mentioned went to truecrimegarage.com helped us out with this week's beer run by donating to the beer fund and for that we thank you.
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B
Yeah, BWR you in beer run and don't get it twisted If Michigan is not playing Ohio State, I'm rooting for the Wolverines. That's just how it rolls. And if you want to get something for yourself and support the show in return, check out truecrimegarage.com go to our store page and pick you up some swag. And Colonel, that's enough of the business.
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I hope they lose every game. All right everybody gather round, grab a chair, grab a beer. Lets talk some true crime. Jason Landry was last seen in San Marcos, Texas on December 13, 2020 when he left apartment this to drive to Missouri City. He was driving from San Marcos to his hometown of Missouri City in Texas. Investigators say he crashed his car which was later found on Salt Flat Road. This is a gravel road in Lolling's oil field area. Jason's silver 2003 Nissan Altima found wrecked and abandoned near Lulling, Texas. This is about 30 minutes from San Marco. This is on December 14th when it's found in the area of 2365 Salt Flat Road, just north of Lolling. The car was left with its lights on, keys in the ignition and phone still inside, his cell phone still inside the car. His clothing was found nearby. Investigators believe the crash occurred between 11:30pm and 12:30am and that Jason likely walked away from the wreckage with little to no injury at all. One of the things that the Caldwell County Sheriff's Office did was to examine Jason's search history and communications leading up to his disappearance. And it sounds like he was using the Google search engine here and they found the following searches. How long can you live in the woods without food? How long can you go in the wilderness? I think you could probably just look up. How long can you live without food? I don't know that it matters where you are. But what is key here though is that added word, right. In those added words of in the woods, this could align with the later findings of the crash car. He's out in the air quotes wilderness, Right. And he's nowhere to be found.
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B
Right. But you don't have to crash your car and leave all your belongings behind in order to go camp out in the woods.
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A
Right. Or go on some survival mission.
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B
And can I point out something that should be pretty obvious? I don't want to throw any shade towards his father. I just believe that I view life through a different lens and I think I view his son from a different lens. And out of all the individuals we've ever talked about on this show that have gone missing, I identify with Jason so much. I mean, he was Gone into a program that. I went through that program, not at that school, but a program to become an audio engineer. I play guitar. I think one of the obvious things when we talk about this is Google history and should we put a bunch of weight to it? You Google some weird stuff when you're stoned.
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A
I think people search the Internet for weird stuff even when they're not stoned.
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B
Correct.
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A
Like, probably my favorite thing about the existence of the Internet is that when random things or questions pop in my head, I can just. I can sit and ponder them, search for the answer myself in my own head. Or I could just pick up my phone and smash it right into some search engine and it will pop up with answers. Not always the correct one, but answers.
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B
I think we have to take that search with a little bit of a grain of salt.
- [07:45]
A
We're kind of saying here it could be as simple as he's listening to something on the radio, see something on tv, or some random thought pops in his mind and he's like, oh, curious how long you could live in the woods without food.
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B
Yeah. One of the things that there's some speculation on, and it comes because, like I said, law enforcement release the video footage of their body cams. And I think these police officers are just speaking out loud. They find his book bag. They start going through his book bag. Okay, now we find some joints inside, what the pill bottle. And one of the cops say, well, is he a drug user? Is he a drug dealer? Is he somebody that is just a delivery person? Was were these joints all rolled for him to enjoy himself or was he going to sell these? I don't think there's any evidence of this. You can be a pot smoker and not a drug dealer. But what makes me wonder, again, I just don't like the fact that he's leaving so late at night and this seems to be out of his way. And maybe he'd go out of his way so he could buy some drugs. But you'd go, well, his connection would probably be closer to his school or he had to have a connection back at home. So that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And he already had some marijuana. Normally, when you already have something, you don't go out of your way to get that thing correct.
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A
And the other thing, too, I would expect that it would be far more easier for him to get more of more marijuana when he returns to his hometown.
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B
Exactly.
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A
We know he's meeting up with a friend, probably multiple friends at some point along this trip. It Would to me stand a reason that would be much easier and probably safer to go about getting it through those channels. And he does, he does have some already with him, so he's not in immediate need. The. As far as the, the cops go here, like, I'm, I'm kind of in a weird spot because I can see and understand the criticisms and concerns by his family and other people who have put a lot of time and effort into this about what the, what law enforcement, the first responders could have done differently or in a lot of venues they're saying should have done differently. I can, I can agree with a lot of that and even sympathize with a lot of that. But the flip of that too, I can also agree and sympathize with the. Every cops day to day, they regularly find abandoned cars. Okay. It is not uncommon for some drunk driver to smash their car and get out and walk home to avoid getting arrested and just leave the car there on the side of the road. And when I say not uncommon, if you live in a city of any size with a decent population, that's every Friday, Saturday night, it's. I mean, it just. And look, I'm not saying that this is great, but we grow. We do grow immune to things. Right. We do grow used to things, and things become commonplace for us in our life experiences. And if you are regularly showing up to abandoned vehicles that are all smashed up on the side of the road or even out in the middle of nowhere, many police Officers experience that 100 times throughout their career. And in every single time the person that owned the vehicle is alive and well when they're tracked down. So we do become a product of that throughout some point and through our life experiences.
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B
Yeah. But I do want to applaud law enforcement because they had this footage and to be transparent, they released it. And I understand some of the concerns that his father has. I think the problem when it comes to a missing person case or a murder investigation or whatever, I actually think it's important to get out as much information, whether it's good information or whether you think it paints them even in a bad. Because just the fact that we know that he was talking to his friend for some time period, little less than an hour, and his friend said, well, I recorded this because he was messed up within not much time passing. He then drives home. That's a part of the equation. You go, well, why did he wreck his car? Well, maybe he continued to smoke pot or whatever. He got more impaired and that's what caused the car accident.
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A
Regarding some of that search history, we talked about that already. But let's talk about some of his communications. So the authorities and people involved in the search for Jason have spoke to people that he was in regular communications with and some of that was, you know, Jason, leading up to his disappearance, is talking about psychedelics, about the impact that psychedelics have, are having on his life, about him experiencing a spiritual awakening, possibly by the use of psychedelics. He's also talking to friends of his about reaching the. Some sort of spiritual enlightenment through the use of narcotics.
- [13:12]
B
Yeah, I think some of this stuff was like dmt.
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A
Well, there was a film, I guess there's a. I don't know what this is. So I always hate talking on things that I have no clue about. But one of the things I found all the time, he was, he was regularly referencing films like dmt, the Spiritual Molecule.
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B
Yeah, I've never tried it myself, but I. But what's insane to me because I have done some research on this and I did some more research on it this week because of. I knew this. We're going to talk about the subject. One of the things that's fascinating about these DMT trips, whether they're just administered by somebody taking themselves, or sometimes there's these situations where you have basically like a, A guide. But a lot of these people report the same stuff. The speculation to some of these people that have tried DMT is that maybe they're going into some kind of other dimension that's just always there. And that's why all these people's trips are very simpatico.
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A
Yeah, I've heard some crazy stuff about dmt. I have no knowledge of the film itself. I have heard of a lot of people talk about DMT and how crazy of a wild ride it is, the quick of it. For those of you that, that don't know, it's. The DMT is a hallucinogenic tryptamine drug that occurs naturally in various plants. Some people call it the spirit molecule due to the intense psychedelic experience. The other things, though, you know, we have a friend of his, Jack Frank, a guy that Jason knew since seventh grade. He actually said he was worried about his friend Jason. He told Texas Monthly, quote, it seemed more apparent that our conversations were not making sense anymore. He would talk about the Rapture coming, aliens, Jesus, Elon Musk and all these things that he would tie together somehow. End quote.
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B
Yeah, he might have been listening to too much Joe Rogan.
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A
He told one friend too, over Instagram. This is Instagram. This Is the weekend before he went missing this, he said, dude, I low key have always wanted to be a monk and reach spiritual enlightenment someday and levitate for meditation or turn into a stone statue and achieve nirvana or something.
- [15:36]
B
Look, here's another thing that we don't talk about. A lot of times when you're going from your late teens to your early 20s, especially in men, that's when things start rearing their ugly head. Depression, anxiety, some kind of mental illness, whether it's manic episodes, glimpses of schizophrenia. And sometimes when these individuals are going through these transformations, they do start self medicating themselves. When I smoke a little pot, it calms my brain down because I've had manic episodes. Your brain starts racing at a speed that can be scary. That makes me wonder if, if that was something he was doing. And then what are the effects on that individual if they're in a car wreck and they hit their head?
- [16:30]
A
You know, I've said it on the show a dozen times. I don't care that, that the government says you're an adult when you're 18. Everybody becomes a man or a woman at a different time, not necessarily when they're 18. We don't all mature at the same rate of speed. And I'm a firm believer that most of us still have a soft spot on our head till our early to mid-20s and or 60s. Well, and science will tell you that in a lot of cases, the brain is still developing well into your early adulthood. And like you said, now let's we know he's smoking a lot of marijuana according to what everybody says. He's having communications and talks about doing all kinds of narcotics and, and psychedelics and then compound that idea with, well, he may have been involved in a accident that he could have incurred a, an injury to his head that could be severe and not require him to shed blood, not require any bloodshed at the scene. None of this feels good to me for what I want the outcome to be.
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B
Right.
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A
Caldwell county investigator Jeff Ferry called the video a wealth of information, explaining it allowed investigators to determine that Jason was wearing what he was wearing when he left his San Marcos apartment and saying that those clothing, that clothing matched the clothing that was found in the roadway near the crash site. The investigator and I don't know how he's piecing this together because this, I mean it, it seems most likely, but I again, I think it's irresponsible to say it in this manner. He says, quote, regarding the video, it allowed us to. Here's the quote say with certainty that he's by himself in the car. Again, I think all things are, all the indicators are that he was by himself. I, I will go 98 on that. I'm not willing to go 100% on that. Who's to say he didn't pick somebody up when he, when he strayed from his route?
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B
Right. Maybe is that the reason why he did stray from his route because he was going to pick somebody up. But you'd think because he's has having communication while he is driving that he would have communicated with this person on level and we would have found out about that.
- [18:59]
A
It doesn't seem to reason that he would have got carjacked. Again, I wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibility but you would think that the, the jacker would have taken any item of valuable, you know, any valuables that they found on his person or in the car. And it, it appears that again, like we said in episode one, unfortunately the only thing that appears to be missing from the scene is Jason. Yeah.
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B
But tell me if I'm right or wrong.
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A
Gray underwear are found at the scene.
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B
Yeah. And it's rumored that one of the police officers sniffed it. But tell me if I'm right or wrong on this. From what it seems to me is he, he's off path, he stops his gps, he's on a rural road, something happens. He's now in a car wreck. His belongings either because of the car wreck went out of the car or he took those items out of the car with him. And then it seems at some point he takes off all of his clothes and he's still heading in a direction. And am I right or wrong, but there were some reports of a naked individual walking around that town.
- [20:12]
A
I'm not going to say that there were none. I will say that I did not review any such reports.
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B
Yeah, I believe there was like some calls to like 911 where they were like there's a naked man running through town. So if we just want to speculate on that, something happens. He hits his head for some reason, he leaves his items behind for some reason that causes him to take his clothes off. And we've seen this happen where when people are so disoriented that they do disrobe. And so I think the speculation from law enforcement, again I, I applaud them for releasing the information. I don't agree with the father that it taints his reputation. Like I said, I identify with Jason so much and I think a lot of People that have gone through that early stages of college. When you even see videos of him, he just kind of light up. He just seems like a. A good kid. You know, it just seems like a guy trying to find his path. And. And their speculation is basically, well, he succumbed to the elements. And then we got a giant problem with wild boars out there. We've seen this speculation before in the Brandon Lawson case. And I don't applaud them for their speculation because I don't think. I'm not saying that it's impossible that that happened, but I'm just saying, like, I don't know how much speculation you want to have on some of these things without any evidence.
- [21:48]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a tough one for sure. Nobody's. Nobody's questioning that. Now back to his father, Kent. To Jason's father, Kent. He was actually the registered owner of the vehicle, which is, of course, very common for a parent to be the registered owner of one of their children's vehicles. So he gets a call from police after they found the car, and so he's going to hop in his vehicle and he's going to take off to the impound lot. When he gets there, he's the one that discovers Jason's phone still in the car. So he finds Jason's cell phone wedged between the driver's seat and the center console.
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B
Right.
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A
Of the Nissan Altima. And authorities would later say that, look, we don't know if the phone fell while Jason was driving through that intersection of Austin street and Magnolia Avenue or during the crash. Either would make sense to me.
- [22:46]
B
What could be the reason for the crash? I mean, you ever drop your phone on a weird spot and you start trying to feel around for it?
- [22:54]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah. That's not a. Not an ideal situation if you're traveling. So Kent Landry then takes off with the phone in hand, and now he's on his way to the scene, the crash. He says that when he gets there, this is. So. This is a very quick response by Jason's dad. Right. I think he's there. I think he's at the crash scene by 6am and once you factor in the delay in telling, you know, notifying Kent about the car, and then the delay in. Because he's got to travel to the impound lot, which was close, closed at the time, to make it into his son's car to retrieve the phone and then get to the scene. I mean, this guy is. This guy is moving along, working for his son, looking for his son, and at the scene by 6am I don't want to go through the all of it because he just, he says his overall opinion is he doesn't think that the first responders did enough. And it's hard to argue against that. When we have a missing person. I don't think that they did anything that wasn't out of protocol. You know, I didn't, I don't see any malfeasance or any negligence on their behalf and others may have a different opinion of that. And I will respect your opinion of that because again, as I said, somebody's missing that we don't want to be missing. And, and therefore it's it's easy to question the actions or lack thereof by anybody involved. Summer's winding down and whether your kids are just soaking up the last few weeks or already asking when school starts, this is the perfect time to ease back into learning with ixl. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning through fun, engaging and personalized content. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 US school districts and is the perfect tool to keep learning going without making it feel like school. I love ixl. You're going to get the results that you want. I did tutoring when I was a kid and it was incredibly inconvenient. You had to get a date, a time, a location, a ride. 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B
All right, we are back. Talk Hands in the air. Cheers to you Colonel.
- [30:36]
A
Cheers to you, Captain. The the search efforts here, there's a lot of them. There's a lot of them. Now, one thing that of course the the parents are not going to want to hear is early on they bring out dogs to try to assist them in their search efforts. Because this is a lot of space and wide open spaces, bringing in the dogs can be advantageous to your efforts. I danced around the dog thing last week and in some episodes where we cover certain cases because while a big fan of using dogs, I think that there are complications with it that are not openly discussed. If you do enough digging and enough research, you will quickly find that the experts are not in full agreement at the capabilities of these dogs. Okay. Some will tell you that they can do everything. According to the new recent Superman movie, apparently dogs are the greatest things to ever exist.
- [31:37]
B
Dogs are pretty cool though, man.
- [31:39]
A
Some of these experts and trainers will tell you that their capabilities are through the roof and then others will tell you about their limitations very quickly. So I think they're the experts and while they can't agree that there's nothing wrong with me questioning.
- [31:53]
B
And just recently, I mean, we've talked about scent dogs in a bunch of cases, but just recently going back and looking at the JonBenet Ramsey case and they were talking about bringing in scent dogs and, and they were talking about how certain dogs, like they had a dog that was on standby, but that dog was mainly like the scent had to like be on the ground, meaning like somebody walked away where other dogs, they might have the ability to track ascent just through the air.
- [32:24]
A
But again, is that true? That's what I, that's what I'm pointing out here. When the experts can't agree on that I do agree that there are some dogs that can do some things that others can't. What I'm saying is when you review the overall information and the experts can't agree, I don't trust. I have a hard time trusting it. Now, if your dog leads me to the person I'm looking for, I trust that. And here in this situation, we have eight dogs that were indicating that there were human remains in a small pond that was not terribly far from the vehicle accident scene. Right. And so the police are telling Jason's father, look, man, we are sorry. We are sorry to tell you this. We are going to drain that pond, and, and we fully expect to be finding him. We understand that we are. Are sending you down a road to hell here because you don't want to find your dead son out here in this pond. But we're trying to prepare you for that because that's how strongly we believe in what our dogs are telling us. Not one dog, not two, not three, but eight of them are telling us that there is a dead body in this pond. They spent days draining the pond while the father sits nearby close enough to hear the pumps pumping out the water, waiting to find the corpse of his son. And when they fully drain it, all they get is mud, no body. And. And. And then the father. How do you feel? Is that what.
- [34:01]
B
Feel like you wasted time?
- [34:03]
A
The only good part is this happens in the early stages of the investigation where you still have hope that you may find your son alive. This was really interesting. This was some stuff that was in Texas Monthly that they were talking about. That one scientist that they spoke to said that there could be some kind of that. That maybe the investigators were experiencing in encountering a chemical phenomenon. There's something in the oil production process when it's mixed with water that's creating the illusion of human decomposition. And that's what this scientist says that the dogs may be picking up on. But they can't say that with any level of certainty. They. They're only guessing as to why the dogs were so adamant that there were human remains in that pond, and yet when they drain it, there's nothing. Yeah. So if we can talk to dogs, right. And then let's pretend for a moment that this. This scientist is correct in his hypothesis. Well, if. If this scientist is correct, then the. The use of those dogs in this area are moot. There's no reason to be. You're. You're getting false flags. So this was just, I believe, on Wednesday, right. He went missing on Sunday. Monday. Wednesday December 16th is when they start to drain the pond based off of what the dogs are telling them.
- [35:21]
B
I do think the location he was found in did hinder some things because I think if he was found closer to his hometown, they could have had larger searches and maybe they would have found more.
- [35:32]
A
I'm of the belief that had he just crashed his car five, ten minutes earlier, we would never be having these conversation. We would never know the name. You and I would never know the name Jason Landry.
- [35:42]
B
Right.
- [35:43]
A
But without going through all the search efforts, because there was a lot of them. And if you are one of the people listening to this that participated in any of those searches, I applaud you and thank you for your efforts.
- [35:59]
B
You're a legend.
- [36:00]
A
They spent throughout the entirety of all the searches that were done. You know, they've, they've deployed things like scan sonar, they've conducted water searches, they've drained ponds like we just talked about. They did the use of drones, horseback, they brought in equisearch very quickly. In this case, which is a Texas based non profit, that unfortunately was the, the genesis of that search and rescue team stems from the Texas killing field case. They used helicopters multiple times. They covered over their efforts. They covered more than 31,000 acres of land and some of the on foot as well. They found nothing, man. They've, they found nothing to tell us what happened to Jason. They've not even found any clues. I mean, at some point they did find some bones, but those after further testing were determined not to be human. In, In July of 2022, a man with physical, was, with a physical resemblance to that of Jason Landry was found unconscious in New York City. Later testing confirms that that man was not Jason.
- [37:18]
B
Yeah, but when researching this and I get to that part of the story, I think to myself, no, there's no way it's him until they show a picture of the guy in the hospital that they sent to Jason's dad. And I'm telling you, man, it's like, because I didn't know the full story, I'm going, that's him. How the hell did he get to New York? And even the father said, I looked at that photo over and over, kind of saw my son in it. And then obviously, you know, they, they figure out who that individual is and it isn't Jason. But man, if you see that picture and you see pictures of Jason, you go, those, those guys look very similar.
- [38:02]
A
So to give further insight into some of these search efforts, here's a Facebook post from April 22nd of this year from 2025. And it reads, this is a call to action. So it reads from the volunteer search team. All hands on deck. Volunteers needed for May search. They mean the month of May. Join the Jason Landry search team. Now there's an opportunity to apply to join in these efforts. And now is the time. Team leaders are putting together the roster for the last search before we will be forced to pause for the hot summer months. We hope and pray this will be the last search because Jason is found. We are asking for as many volunteers as possible to make this our biggest search to date. This will be the team's 24th. 24th search over a span of three years. We will have access to areas previously unattainable and may have only one opportunity to get this done. We need your help. Here is what one can expect on search days. Extreme heat, snakes and wildlife. Cacti, mesquite brush and rugged terrain. Long hours on foot in the elements. A list of basic requirements. Physically fit and mentally resilient. Able to hike for extended periods. Comfortable working in remote, challenging environments. Able and willing to listen and follow direction. All searchers are required to attend an orientation zoom meeting prior to their first search. This is your chance to join in these efforts. We welcome you to apply. And there's a findjason landrymail.com and unfortunately they again, they don't find him on this search as well as we know. And so I would imagine that there will be more of these searches because this search took place, took place in late May of this year. I believe it was May 20. But a Facebook post after says over 50 people were at this weekend search by the Jason Landry search team. This 24th volunteer search was the largest one yet. We'd like to thank everyone involved in the search, the many dog teams, the landowners and ranch hands and the community of lawling. It takes a lot to make each search happen. Each search puts us closer to finding Jason. We are so grateful for the continued support.
- [40:27]
B
Yeah, but I think the problem with this case is the location. And I think the other problem with this case is wildlife. And I think any speculation that he was attacked by a wild boar I think would see some kind of evidence of that. And I don't think we see evidence of that. But, but let's go a step further because to me I was going, okay, well this is roughly what law enforcement or at least what Jason's father is saying. Hey, I, the. I think law enforcement just think he was attacked by a wild boar. And, and that Therefore, we're not going to put much effort into this case. I think they have put decent effort into it. Again, we can criticize every step of the way when you don't have a result, but I went down this rabbit hole. There's anywhere from 2 to 4 million wild boars in Texas, which is the most out of any place. And you. In the United States, probably in the world. And one of the things that I thought was also really interesting, I mean, I went down a giant pig rabbit hole. What's interesting is if you have a domestic pig that gets out and becomes feral, they start changing within months. Now, the interesting thing though, is most of these boars, they're not eating meat. They dig. They're actually. Their noses, their snouts will. Will grow longer because they will dig into the ground, they'll eat bugs, roots, things like that. That's one of the problems that Texas is having because with their. Their farmers, deer come in, they eat the top of your grass, and they move on. The pigs come in, they eat the grass and all the roots and leave nothing. But they root.
- [42:22]
A
Yeah.
- [42:23]
B
And so think about how crazy that is. They become feral, and then their snouts start growing longer so they can dig further. But some of them will eventually eat meat. Once they get a taste of meat, they tend to continue to eat meat and actually end up preferring it. So you'll see them mainly, they don't attack animals. They basically eat the remains of animals.
- [42:54]
A
They will attack, though. I mean, razorbacks will. Will absolutely attack. And, and usually their method is they. They charge you. And that while they can be rather large animals, they want to upend you. They want to take you out by the legs. And now you are. You are stuck on the ground. And look, pigs in general are omnivores. You have carnivores, you have herbivores, and you have omnivores, and it goes on and up. But omnivore will eat anything and does eat everything pigs do and always have. And so wherever they get the meat, they will consume it. I think that while there. Yeah, I think while there are a lot of people that may believe in the wild boar theory, it stands to good reason. But it's missing one big part of the equation. The wild boar, before it attacked Jason, didn't ask him to kindly disrobe.
- [43:56]
B
Right.
- [43:57]
A
So that is a weird part of it. But let's. So let's talk about some other possible scenarios that have been mentioned throughout this, and I don't know that we'll hit on all of them. Because to be honest with you, Captain, when starting to review the theories as to what may have happened to this young man, there were no shortage of them and there were some that were pretty far out there, and I'll try to steer clear of those. But.
- [44:21]
B
Well, when you have DMT brought up in an investigation, that's going to open up the speculation more. Maybe he's on a DMT trip and he never returned. Or Sasquatch or abducted by aliens. There's some weird ones out there.
- [44:38]
A
The DMT thing is rough. For me, that's difficult because what did he do? Crash his car and then decide to go on a DMT trip? Because the way it's been described to me, he wasn't. He's not making it 30 minutes from his apartment in a vehicle if he's tripping on dmt.
- [44:54]
B
Right.
- [44:54]
A
So this is from. Again, from Texas Monthly, where they were talking to some of the locals and the idea of. Back to something you were talking about, like, well, what would happen? This was something we talked about with Brandon Lawson and actually was. Was a big. Was in large part my speculation as to what I thought had happened to Brandon. So very similar to what I thought had happened to Brandon. Here they're asking people in Caldwell county, you know, late at night, if some strange person wanders onto your property or approaches you, what do you think would happen? Or approaches somebody that lives here, what do you think would happen? And one person in particular says, if it was a woman, people would probably think she was in distress. If it was a naked man, I think it's safe to say he could end up dead.
- [45:39]
B
Yeah. Because what does Texas have probably just as much as wild boars. They have guns. And so that's a possibility.
- [45:48]
A
I guess it's called paradoxical undressing. And that is when people experiencing levels of hypothermia that they start to undress. There's been some pushback on that. So this stands to reason too. But there's been pushback on this theory for a couple of reasons. Usually when people are to that level where they're starting to undress, they're near death. So they're usually found very close to where their clothing would be found. We can say, well, it's been all this time, but his. Remember, his clothing was found that night. The other part of this too is that there are doctors saying, we don't know that it even reached that level for him or if it could have reached that level. Now, every situation, every experience of this is unique. Every person is different. And Doctors are quick to point that out. They're also saying, you know, there's one pathologist from an autopsy service that's referenced here in Texas Monthly that says, out of all of the autopsies that I've done, I've only experienced paradoxical undressing fewer than 10 times, like in the history of my career. And then it goes on to actually say here that in the United States, while mild cases of hypothermia are very common, the deaths are very rare. Temperatures got in the 30s at night. It's difficult to say if that how likely of a possibility that is, but it remains a theory that is out there. I think it to me, though, that that would be the most reasonable explanation as to why his clothes were found there and that maybe he physically was able to make it further away from his clothing than what others would. Maybe he was in better physical shape and condition and was able to make it much, much further than, than what others typically would.
- [47:47]
B
Yeah, or maybe it has nothing to do with hyperthermia and it's just a brain injury.
- [47:54]
A
This retired FBI agent named Abel Pa Pena says that he thinks that Jason was actually met with violence, with some pretty random violence. This is interesting. He says it's possible that Jason encountered one or more people at the intersection. Remember we talked about that intersection where he's, he's. He continues going straight where he should have turned right, and then he continues going straight for some time. He says it's entirely possible that Jason encountered one or more people at the intersection who, who beat him up, took his car and staged the wreck along Salt Flat Road. Jason was forced to strip and his clothes were left on the road before he was disposed of somewhere far away from that location. Quote, I don't think it was necessarily kidnapping, Pena said. I think it could have been a random act of violence, maybe something that went south pretty quickly, and maybe the individuals involved didn't mean to kill him, but then had to do something to hide the evidence. And in short, he kind of calls this an extraction. Right. Like it's, it's everything but the body that is found at the, the different scenes where the, where the violence and the assaults occurred.
- [49:12]
B
Now, I think this speculation to me makes some sense. And, and here's why. And I don't think it's just this random, random encounter where these individuals were like, oh, well, we're, we're just going to, we're just going to rob this guy or kill this guy randomly. It's the damage to the car. What if he's hit by a vehicle and they take off and he. And he tries to go after them, ends up wrecking because of it. Or. Or maybe he hit somebody and then took off. Because then the evidence of that car, the vehicle could be back at the intersection and not at the. Where his car crashed, if that makes any sense.
- [49:55]
A
Yes, but what Pena is saying, what he means by random is not that people set out for a random act of violence, that the randomness of the victim and perpetrator crossing paths. They don't know each other, they didn't intend to cross paths neither. Nobody intended to be a victim, nobody intended to be. To assault someone that night. That it just something happened, like you said, and this is the result in extraction, where it's everything found but the body.
- [50:26]
B
Well, and think about this, though. Let's just say he's impaired and he hits another car and takes off, and the driver's like, oh, no, you don't. And he starts chasing him, and then that causes a wreck, and then that causes whatever happened after that. I mean, I think it's a likely possibility, but again, it's not definitive. We can only speculate.
- [50:47]
A
What do you think happened? Or is there not enough here to come to any.
- [50:51]
B
No, I think there's these pieces that are missing. Like, if there's evidence of a crash with another car at the scene, then. Then I think one can speculate where that went from there. I don't know if it's anybody's fault why we don't have that evidence. Because like I said, if there was a car wreck back at the intersection or somewhere else, it still doesn't make any sense of why he's in that area. It doesn't make any sense to me. And like, we know he was using waves, so we know he's using GPS to get to somewhere. And what I want to know is, like, were they able to figure out where his ending destination was? Was the ending destination his hometown or was it another address? And you think if it was another address in that county where he was found, you'd think we'd know that information. Again, we don't know what is being held back by law enforcement, but it seems like they've been trying their best to be transparent.
- [51:47]
A
Well. Well, no, that part they have sorted out. I mean, as far as we know and everything we've been told that the ending destination was his friend's house in Missouri City, which is a long way away from where his vehicle was found. And then in regard to.
- [52:04]
B
Think about that. But hold on. Think about that for a second. That's what. It makes no sense. I'm gonna turn on my gps. The Indian destination is here, and I'm way off track. And so then you just wonder, like, because he was communicating with people on the phone, is it possible that he just turned, but he's.
- [52:24]
A
He's only a couple miles off track.
- [52:26]
B
It's.
- [52:26]
A
I look at this and go, I think he just briefly got lost, and before he could correct his route.
- [52:34]
B
Right.
- [52:35]
A
Something happened. They do call it lost for a reason. Right. You don't. None of us instantly know the second we become lost.
- [52:43]
B
I do is 1997.
- [52:45]
A
And so it may have taken him some time to realize, hey, oh, I probably shouldn't have turned off my ways. I can only speak to my own personal experience. But oftentimes, if I'm. I like taking road trips. I love taking road trips. But. But I'm as guilty as Jason is for doing way too many things while I'm in the car. Right? Like, I'm constantly looking for. For music to listen to or. Or podcast to listen to or. Or an audiobook. Right? And it's like, because I want to be entertained, I get bored very quickly, very easily. And so there are times where I'm draining my phone or my device or it feel. Or you touch it and it feels like it's on fire because you're like, well, I'm running my navigation. I'm running this podcast. And you go, you know what? I don't need to. According to my ways or my navigation or whatever app I'm using. According to this app, I don't have to make a turn for another 45 miles or another 60 miles. I will regularly turn off the navigation just so I'm not running a bunch of apps while I'm traveling, I'll make quick mental note of the miles on my car and go, you know what? Nick says you. You don't have to make a turn for 60 miles. How about we make a mental note to flip this back on after I've traveled 50 miles? And it could be just something as simple as he. He flipped it off for. For reasons like that or not unlike that, and then realize at some point, I'm lost. We've all been there where. Where we've traveled a route on a previous occasion, and all of a sudden you're going, I don't remember seeing any of this before. Wait a second. I must be lost again. You're right. You are absolutely right. There are pieces of this missing. If there. If there weren't we would have figured it out. We would have found Jason a long time ago. So you're. You're spot on with that, my friend. As far as there being the accident occurring elsewhere, I call that into question, the likelihood of that based off of when it. When seeing the wrecked vehicle after it's been towed, one thing that's sitting next to the vehicle was the. The bumper or a large chunk of the bumper. Now, may have it fallen mostly the way off and then fell the. The rest of the way off during the transporting it from wreck scene to the impound lot. Could be. Or it could have been sitting next to the vehicle when they found it at the crash scene. To me, if. If that's the case, what I'm getting at is at the scene where the car is found, you are finding evidence that the accident, the wreck occurred there where we don't have anywhere else there.
- [55:33]
B
Could be two wrecks. Look, just hypothetically, he's driving. He's communicating with his friends on the phone. He's not paying attention to waves. Waves is saying, hey, bud, you're going the wrong way. You're going the wrong way. Eventually, he pays attention. Oh, I'm going the wrong way. I'll just turn it off.
- [55:50]
A
He turned it off. Yeah, he had turned it off.
- [55:53]
B
Right. Let me talk. And then we. Then we get to the end of the talk.
- [55:57]
A
You know, I know, but I'm just. Just to clear, you know, when. The timeline is key here. I'm just pointing out that it's. It's explained in the timeline that. That the ways app was shut off before he was going in the wrong direction.
- [56:12]
B
Okay, so at some point, like you said, he's talking to his friends, he decides to turn off the directions. He misses whatever exit or whatever road he's supposed to take, he's headed in the wrong direction. So then he decides I'm just gonna have to turn around at this next exit. And maybe the thought was, well, once I get to a gas station or something, because that's one thing that I didn't see. And maybe you saw how much gas did he have in his car? And so that's whatever gets off.
- [56:44]
A
The reports are that they're. There were. There was gas in it, but nobody. I've not found anything to say how Right.
- [56:51]
B
And some people will go, hey, it's getting late. I need to stop and get gas before it turns midnight. But also, I'm lost. Let me get off this road. But let's say he gets off this road, and we know he's impaired. We know that because his friend said so. If he hits somebody, let's say he runs his car into the back of somebody else's car and goes, oh, and then takes off and then ends up wrecking his car on the rural road. Now, there's two accidents, but we'd only know about the second accident if we found the debris at the other, the crime scene, if you will.
- [57:28]
A
Correct.
- [57:29]
B
So I, I, I, I totally agree with you. The, the bumper thing, that all probably happened at that accident scene. But is there another accident scene?
- [57:41]
A
Because no, and I want to be clear here. I'm agreeing with you. I said at this, at the start of this timeline here, when we got to the, the crash part, when I look at the vehicle, I'm seeing two impact points on the vehicle. So two accidents are completely possible. I believe.
- [57:57]
B
Yes.
- [57:57]
A
That, yes. And I also agree with what you're saying with there could have been one accident at another location. I'm just simply pointing out that there is evidence of an accident at the scene where the car was found and no evidence of an accident elsewhere. I'm not saying that an accident elsewhere didn't occur. I'm just saying we have nothing to tell us or suggest that it may have occurred.
- [58:20]
B
Yeah. Other than, I think, looking at the damage of the car, I think if you bring an expert and go, how did this damage happen? Is it, is, is this damage possible? All this damage, is it possible at this scene? Because if you find little pieces of information, and again, we also don't know what the condition of the car was. Did he have any fender benders on the car before he took off to go back home? And I think it's very plausible, you go, somebody hits you with their car and takes off because they're impaired, while that, that could cause a nasty confrontation. But I think the problem is obviously, if something turned to murder, that person is not going to be waving the red flag for you to come get them. I guess you always have the possibility of somebody telling somebody. But I, again, I think if he did hit his head and nobody else was involved in the accident, I think the problem becomes if he, we don't know how far he made it and we don't know how confused he was. And then the other problem to that is you have these, you have these animals that are prone to feed off of dead animals. So is it possible that he was able to make it a far enough distance but ended up just collapsing? And, and then we're just not going to find his remains because of the Animals, if that makes any sense.
- [59:53]
A
Yes, it makes absolute sense. I actually think that he. He did, unfortunately. I hate to say this because it doesn't. It doesn't leave a lot of hope out there. My conclusion, I think he died out there that night. I think he was in a solo accident by himself. I think that he was quite impaired. I think that he was quite impaired in life before he got into that car that night. I think he was quite impaired before he woke up that morning. I think he was smoking way too much pot. I think that a lot was going on chemically and emotionally and in his brain, which we don't understand the brain very well at all. I think he hit his head, man. I think he hit his head in that car. And I think that that is why the. The mystery is so mysterious that none of it makes any sense, because it didn't make sense to him when he's. When he was experiencing it. We all know that. Look, sleeping after a concussion is extremely dangerous. I mean, I could go on and on. I don't. I don't know that hypothermia had to even play a big role in this. Maybe it played a role in it, but I don't know if it played a huge role in it. And I think that. I think he died out there that night, and I don't think it was due to an animal attack. I think he just. I think he died from the accident itself and something he experienced during that accident. Probably some severe head trauma. And.
- [61:22]
B
Well, I'm not leaning towards an animal attack. I'm saying the animals would be responsible for why we don't find him.
- [61:29]
A
Because.
- [61:30]
B
Because if anybody wants to have a better understanding of this, just type in, like, Adam Green Tree, wild boar attack, because he was attacked by a wild boar. The guy ended up killing the wild boar, and they ended up opening up the wild boar's stomach. Now, this wild boar was eating animals coming across dead animals, and in this boar's stomach, they found bones and skull fragments and. And all this stuff. And so all I'm saying is that's evidence that if you're in Texas and you end up dying for whatever reason out in a rural area, there's a possibility that you would come across this type of animal or other animals. Doesn't have to be a wild boar, but that's why we haven't found his remains.
- [62:25]
A
Yeah, you expire anywhere outdoors, you're at risk of animals doing things with the body. That's what they do. I mean, it's. It's it's their habitat, not ours. That's, that's the circle of life. That's what happens. And I think to me the, you know, there seems to be a consensus among law enforcement in the area in Caldwell county that animals got him or he died and then animals are responsible for why they've not recovered. His response remains. And I think that it's, which really.
- [63:01]
B
Sucks because his family seems like a really cool family and his dad seems very concerned. And even though I think he views certain actions by law enforcement and even maybe the media to being throw, throwing shade to his son because he, he smoked pot, it sucks because I don't know if they're going to get the answers that they deserve. And it sucks because Jason Landry seemed to be a really cool kid. You know, it seems like yes, he was finding his path. And look, young kids look up stuff just because you smoke a little pot and you're trying to find your way in this world. And again, like you said, we don't know what was going on with him mentally or whatever. And he could have been self medicating and that, that's a tragedy in itself. And then I, and we don't know, but I, I, I'm sure some people know this answer, but if you're heading into a mental state of, let's say like bipolar or schizophrenia, does that affect you differently if you get into a car accident, if you have a concussion? I don't know those answers. I'm not, you know, a neuroscientist, just a captain.
- [64:19]
A
And nobody should be throwing any shade on Jason here. I mean the, the, he was in his early 20s, right?
- [64:25]
B
I don't think they are. I just think his dad is perceiving it that way. And, and I don't think he's wrong for perceiving it that way. He's gonna obviously look through life or look at life through his lenses. And so I think it's something that maybe he's maybe a little shameful that his son was doing this, but it's like he was going into audio engineering. When I went to school for audio engineering, there was more people that smoked pot than smoked cigarettes. But the other cool thing about being a recording engineer or a record producer or whatever is normally when you're making records you don't talk just about like normal life stuff. You talk about weird stuff, DMT trips, you talk about being on the road, you talk about partying, you talk about girls, you talk about ghosts. You talk, you know, I mean, so I don't know I, but out of all the people that we've looked into, like I said, I just identify with this kid so much and it's just such a shame that this stuff happened to him because, because especially when you find something that you're passionate about and you love. And I'm sure he loved music and he wanted, you know, to get into that program like he was about to have some of the best times of his life.
- [65:47]
A
Well, in this country is dotted the, this country's landscape as well as many other countries landscapes are dotted with universities that are filled with kids that are smoking pot and typing in oddball questions to search engines on the daily. So he's, he, he to me represents a lot of, a lot of me and a lot of people I knew growing up, growing up and coming up. And so I, I hope and wish the best for Jason and his family. Remember, Jason Landry is 6 foot 1 inches tall, 170 pounds, Caucasian with brown eyes. At the time of his disappearance on December 13th and 14th of 2000, he had Shaggy brown hair and a goatee. He sometimes wears glasses, although he didn't have them with him when he got out of his car. He's presumed to have been wearing contacts. His crashed smashed vehicle, a silver or possibly platinum color 2003 Nissan Altima, was located with the keys in the ignition on Salt Flat Road. He has been missing for over four years. He would have been turned 26 years old just last week. There is a reward in this case of $20,000, of course, contingent on a few stipulations, but there is a reward. The missing Jason T shirts, signs and posters say know something? Call the Texas attorney general at 512-936-0742 or or call anonymously at 726-777-1359. And his case and story is on all of the major social platforms at Find Jason Lander.
- [67:50]
B
I want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week. If you have a case that you'd like for us to do a deep dive into, email captainruechrimegarage.com Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners?
- [68:04]
A
Yes, this week, Captain, I want to recommend to all of the beautiful listeners and the one that is not beautiful, you know who you are.
- [68:11]
B
I'm sorry.
- [68:12]
A
Texas Monthly. Texas Monthly, Fantastic magazine. And it's not fully based on true crime, obviously, but that's one thing that they do talk about and they do visit some of the more known and lesser known cases in the great state of Texas. Some of the more popular recent ones, Tom Brown's Body, that was a long form article, turned to a podcast that had many episodes. Fantastic case. In fact, that's a case that's been recommended and suggested to us many, many times. I just Texas Monthly did such a fantastic job with it. I often email the suggestor back and say, hey, check out Texas Monthly's coverage on it. The article that we referenced here today multiple times is titled Where Jason Went. I believe the online version of it has a different title, but that came out in their most recent issue. They're not your typical magazine when it comes to true crime or their stories. Right. You, you may check out different publications and they'll have one page, maybe two pages. This is a deep dive. It's like 20 pages of the Jason Landry story. And another great long form was from 2022 titled How Many Did He Kill? So some really great stuff by the great people at Texas Monthly. The only downfall about my love for this magazine is that they're regularly featuring wonderful and great Texas barbecue. And I only get to the state about every other year. So I'm, I'm missing out big time and I know what I'm missing out on. You can find that recommendation so you don't have to miss out and many other great recommendations on our recommended page on our website, true crime garage.com and.
- [69:58]
B
Until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter. Sam.
- [70:38]
A
Hey everybody, Conan o' Brien here with an ad about my podcast. Conan o' Brien needs a friend. I've had so many fantastic conversations with people I truly admire. People like Michelle Obama, Bruce Springsteen, Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks. New episodes are out every Monday and we have a really good time. So subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts.