Katie Janness /// Part 1 /// 760

Summary

True Crime Garage – “Katie Janness /// Part 1 /// 760” (May 21, 2024)

Hosts: Nic & The Captain

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Episode Overview

In this immersive and highly detailed episode, Nic and the Captain open the case file on the brutal and still-unsolved 2021 murder of Katie Janness and her dog Bowie in Atlanta’s Piedmont Park. With their characteristic blend of in-depth research, conjecture, and gritty humor, the hosts break down the events leading up to the crime, the discovery scene, the autopsy details, and the early law enforcement investigation. This is Part 1 of their deep dive, focusing on the victim’s background, the timeline, and the shocking brutality and peculiarities of the crime scene.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Katie Janness: Background & Character (06:59)

• Katie’s Life:
  • Originally from Detroit, moved to Atlanta in 2006 seeking a progressive city and LGBTQ-friendly neighborhood (Midtown).
  • Known for being kind, musically talented, "sweet, a little geeky," and community-oriented.
  • Worked as a bartender by trade but was also a musician, poet, and book lover.
  • Shared her life with her partner Emma Clark and dogs Tori (14 years old) and Bowie (3 years old, likely named after David Bowie).
  • Lived in an upper-middle-class, vibrant, and generally safe neighborhood.

2. Timeline: Night of the Murder (09:41 – 19:34)

• July 27, 2021, Evening:

  • Katie had dinner at home with Emma and their dogs.
  • Emma went to work (restaurant/bar shift), and Katie took Bowie for a late-night walk—something typical due to their work schedules (11:10).
  • The Midtown neighborhood is walkable, well-lit at night, and considered safe.

• Around 11:35 PM (14:27):

  • Katie and Bowie visited Emma at her workplace. They chatted, Emma pet the dog, and the plan (varied by source) was either that Katie would return to walk Emma home or they’d see each other later at their apartment.

• After Midnight (~12:00–12:57 AM, July 28):

  • Emma bikes home after her shift and is alarmed when neither Katie nor Bowie is there (17:38).
  • After calling and texting with no response, Emma uses Find My iPhone to locate Katie’s device—the phone is stationary inside the entrance to Piedmont Park.
  • She bikes out, enters the park, and finds Bowie dead, then discovers Katie’s body about 100 feet farther in (19:36–22:30).
  • Emma calls 911 at 1:10 AM, panicked and out of breath. The call is dissected at length, including her shock and a male voice encountered at the scene (23:24–27:50).

3. Crime Scene & 911 Call Dynamics (22:08 – 32:30)

• Scene Details:
  • Bowie, the dog, was dead about 50 feet from the park gate. Katie was farther in, not immediately visible to Emma.
  • Emma's first thought was Bowie had been hit by a car, as vehicles do sometimes enter the park’s paved paths.
  • Upon finding Katie, Emma notes multiple "bloody, gaping wounds" and runs in terror, fearing the killer could still be present.
  • Emma’s 911 call is emotionally charged; she is described as frantic, breathless, and in shock. She interacts with another individual arriving at the scene, whose identity remains unaddressed by police (26:03–29:16).
  • Law enforcement never publicly clarified who this other witness was, raising questions about possible involvement or simply being a passerby.

4. Law Enforcement & Initial Investigation (04:02 – 06:59)

• Public Statements:
  • News coverage from the day after the murder discusses surveillance images, witness identification, and dispels rumors of serial killer or hate crime connections.
  • Atlanta Mayor and Police Chief stress the case's uniqueness; the FBI is called in for support due to the "unusual nature" of the killing.
  • The park’s older security cameras complicate the investigation, as footage is hard to retrieve.
  • Officials withhold many details, noting certain facts are held back for evidentiary reasons.

5. Autopsy & Forensic Details (41:24 – 55:06)

• Autopsy Findings (42:00–53:00):

  • Katie was stabbed over 50 times.
  • Sharp force injuries to the face, neck, torso, and back; including deep X-shaped facial slashes, defensive wounds, and likely beating.
  • "Her heart was still beating while those injuries occurred." (43:16, Nic)
  • Letters "F" and "A" (right side) and "T" (left side, deepest) were carved into her abdomen, forming "FAT." Each letter several inches tall; shirt was lifted for this, and pants/underwear down to her knees.
  • Despite initial speculation, no evidence of sexual assault; but ambiguous context due to clothing positioning—possible sexual motive or part of the killer’s intended staging.

• Dog:

  • Bowie, a 50-pound pit bull, was also killed—raising questions about the killer(s)’ ability to control both dog and human victim.
  • Earbud still in place suggests an ambush attack (50:20).
  • No valuables stolen: phone, $200 headphones, keys, and some money found on Katie (55:20).

• Investigative Theories (50:20–54:14):

  • "I hate to use that word, but you have to look at these things the way a detective would. How did this play out?" (51:07, Nic)
  • The brutality and carving suggest a sexual sadist at work (64:30).
  • Possibility of more than one attacker, especially with a strong young dog present.
  • The attacker took their time, felt unhurried, and deliberately left a message; placement in a public/open part of the park could be intentional for shock value.
  • No evidence points firmly to robbery, spontaneous violence, or an immediate crime of passion.
  • Comparing wounds to prior known cases, possibility of the killer having committed similar crimes.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

Nic on Discovery of the Scene:
“Emma calls police frantically, and this is at 1:10am... Emma is stating, ‘I’m at the entrance to Piedmont Park. I was just searching for my girlfriend because I couldn’t find her. She’s dead. She’s here at Piedmont Park. Please help.’” (24:10)

Captain on Reactions to the 911 Call:
“Every crime documentary where there’s a 911 call, you can spend hours, if not days, dissecting what the person meant by the tone in their voice, their actions, what choice of words they used. We don’t know how we’d react unless we were in that situation.” (38:07)

Nic on the Autopsy:
“She had at least 15 incised wounds from her forehead to her chin, slicing cuts that flayed her skin open in an X pattern... The cuts to her throat were so deep that they went all the way through to the vertebrae and through to the muscles on the back of her neck.” (43:16)

Captain, on Attack Motive Speculation:
"The presence of the dog makes it more complicated obviously for one perpetrator to commit this unless you are able to neutralize the threat of the dog quickly... The earbuds still being in almost that is indicative to me of a surprise attack, of some type of ambush." (50:19)

Nic, on Crime Scene Staging:
"She’s lying on the ground in plain sight under a tree or alongside the roadway in the park. The roadways where people would naturally walk and traverse at nighttime. Especially at nighttime." (60:10)

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Important Timestamps

• 06:59 – Katie Janness’s background and life in Atlanta
• 09:41 – Events leading to July 27-28, 2021
• 14:27 – Timeline: Katie & Bowie’s visit to Emma at work
• 19:36 – Emma's alarming discovery in Piedmont Park
• 24:10 – 911 call: Emma’s statements and background voice
• 29:16 – Unknown witness at the park, speculation on killer identity
• 41:24 – Autopsy details, wound specifics, and the carved letters
• 50:19 – Theories about multiple attackers, role of the dog
• 55:06 – Further breakdown of attack sequence, lack of robbery/sexual assault
• 64:30 – Sadism and psychosexual aspects of the murder

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Closing Thoughts

Nic and the Captain meticulously lay out the known facts, witness and forensic details, and their own reflective discussions, repeatedly acknowledging that speculation abounds in the absence of solid answers from police. They highlight the unusual violence, lack of clear motive, and unanswered questions—especially regarding potential suspects and unexplained elements like the “FAT” carving. The hosts promise further exploration in a subsequent part, delving into theories, police investigation focus, and broader implications.

Next Episode Tease:
“So much more to get to in this case. Please join us back here in the garage.” (65:01, Captain)

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Key Takeaway:
This episode of True Crime Garage offers a detailed, respectful, and thought-provoking examination of a uniquely brutal murder, raising crucial questions about the nature of violent offenders and the rare, perplexing cases that baffle even seasoned investigators. The narrative underscores both the horror of the crime and the complex, unsolved puzzle it presents.

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Transcript

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[Nick (Host)]

Picture this. It's the end of a long week.

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[Nick (Host)]

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[Nick (Host)]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always, he's a dangerous man with some money in his pocket. Keep up. Here is the captain.

[Captain]

It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick (Host)]

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[Captain]

And a big we like your jib goes to Kelly from Huntsville, Alabama.

[Nick (Host)]

Next up, here's a shout to Brenda Whitman in Paragould, Arkansas. And how about a Big sky country shout out to Mariah and Cole, Strip, Montana. And last but certainly not least, we have a shout out to the Spiders from Mars. All of those great folks went to truecrimegarage.com and contributed to the beer fund and for that we thank you.

[Captain]

Yeah B W E R R U N Beer run. If you're not subscribed to us on YouTube. Go do it. It's free. Tons of content being put out every week. That's where I'm releasing all the old episodes of off the record. So you can check those out there. And colonel, that's enough for the B, isn't it?

[Nick (Host)]

All right, everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

[News Reporter]

The murder investigation involving a woman and her dog stabbed at Piedmont Park. Atlanta police now saying they want to talk with half a dozen potential witnesses. The mayor and police chief publicly discussing this case for the first time today, stressing the investigation is still very active but at this time they are unable to name a suspect or make an arrest. Joe Hanke had the chance today to bring your questions about this case to police.

[Joe Sheba (News Reporter)]

Joe Sheba Today Atlanta police gave us images from security cameras posted directly outside of Piedmont Park. The images aren't the greatest quality, but if police can identify and talk with the people pictured, they believe that might lead to a break in the case. 40 year old Katie Janis and her dog Bowie were last pictured at the rainbow crosswalk at 10th and Piedmont. Soon after police responded to Piedmont park after both were killed with Janice being stabbed. Now police are asking for six potential witnesses to come forward. Three individuals here exiting the park around 11:54pm on Tuesday at 10th and Charles Allen. 12:25am on Wednesday, a person appearing to leave the park at 12th impemont and someone else same intersection at 12:43am finally another person at 12:46 back at 10th and Charles Allen.

[Police Official]

Let's be clear, those are not suspects. Those are individuals that we know were inside the park and we just want to know what they saw.

[Joe Sheba (News Reporter)]

What Atlanta police have not released are any security camera images from inside the park. We are still working with vendors to try and determine if there's any information

[Nick (Host)]

we can get off of those cameras.

[Joe Sheba (News Reporter)]

To John Keen, chief operating officer for the city of Atlanta, says there are nine cameras inside Piedmont park that use older technology and are unable to integrate the with the city's more modern camera system. So images from the cameras in the park cannot be retrieved as easily, if at all.

[Nick (Host)]

A lot of false information that is being spread.

[News Reporter]

It is not helpful to this investigation.

[Joe Sheba (News Reporter)]

Marquisha Lance Bottom says as of now there is no indication to support rumors of the case being linked to a serial murderer. Nor is there any indication this was a hate crime. Beyond calling the murder gruesome and saying Janice was stabbed multiple times, few specifics of the crime have been released. Today. Deputy chief Charles Hampton described why there

[Police Official]

are things that only the individual or individual is responsible for this know this is very important when we apprehend them. This is what we use as to further our case in order to bring them to justice.

[Joe Sheba (News Reporter)]

And Atlanta Police Chief Rodney Bryant today said he decided last week to call the FBI in to assist with this case because this murder is unique and outside the norm, he said of what they typically see. But he didn't explain what made the murder unique. He added, though, the FBI has many resources and it's best to include them earlier rather than later in the investigation.

[Nick (Host)]

Katherine Janis, who went by Katie, grew up in Detroit, Michigan. In 2006, as a young adult, she relocated to Atlanta, Georgia, deliberately choosing the progressive liberal city's Midtown neighborhood. It was a welcoming environment for those interested in the arts and involved in the LGBTQ community. One of Katie's first jobs in Atlanta was a bar manager gig for the Whole World Improv theater. Katie was a musician, writing songs, expressing her political views and playing guitar in some local bands at the time as well. But I can attest to this and the captain will back me up. Music doesn't always pay the bills, so she had to continue working these other jobs. She worked as a bartender at the Midtown restaurant Campagnolo for several years. The establishment was right down the street from her and her partner's apartment and was situated at the intersection of 10th street and Piedmont Avenue, where the Washington Post describes the rainbow crosswalks denote the area's significance as the center of the LGBTQ community and a haven at work. Katie was known to be friendly and kind, sweet, a little geeky as one regular patron described her. But she was not the rowdy bartender type, throwing down shots and hooking up with patrons. No, she collected books, wrote poetry and songs.

[Captain]

I love the geeks of the world. Geeks of the world unite.

[Advertisement Voice]

Unite.

[Nick (Host)]

We, we are all holding hands, sweaty palms. Katie met her part Katie met her partner, Emma Clark. I believe this was sometime in 2014. Captain Emma was 10 years younger than Katie, but the two were inseparable. And by 2021, Katie and Emma were trying to save up money for a down payment to buy their first home together. But for now they lived in upper middle class Midtown Atlanta, a generally safe area that was filled with restaurants, bars and a thriving music scene. Makes sense given Katie's personality and music background. Katie and Emma had two dogs. One was a 14 year old female dog named Tori and the other was a three year old dog named Bowie.

[Captain]

Guessing she named the dog after David Bowie.

[Nick (Host)]

Let's get to the events of July 28, 2021, the day in question. Actually, what we should say is July 27th is where we're going to start. We need to go through that day and then go into the early morning hours of July 28th. So Katie was off of work on the evening of July 27th. This is a Tuesday. She had dinner at her home, at the apartment that she shared with Emma. So the two have dinner together and the two dogs are at home with them. Obviously at this time as well. Emma is going to be working that night. She's also going to be working quite late that night. One of the dogs, Bowie, the younger of the two, had been cooped up for some time. It was a warm summer night. So after Emma goes off to work, Katie decided to take Bowie out for a walk. It would be good for both of them to get out, get some fresh air and stretch their legs. This was sort of a routine for the two of them to go out for a late night walk.

[Captain]

I was going to say they live in a nice community. That's one of the perks is, hey, let's go for an evening stroll. And you feel safe in that community and in that environment.

[Nick (Host)]

And to sort of paint this picture a little bit better, this neighborhood, it's situated so that there's businesses nearby. Both of the businesses that Katie and Emma work at are within walking distance.

[Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host)]

From their apartment. There's a nice park in the area. Like the captain said, this is the type of area that you. It's inviting to be out and walking the streets. It's inviting to go out and take a walk. And Katie and Emma, when they would go out on walks, especially Katie with the dog, they were more evening and night people due to their work schedules. They both worked at restaurants and places that you're going to make most of your money if you work it in the evening hours. So by being creatures of habit, most of the time that they're out and about would be in the evening hours or even later at night.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Like I said, this is sort of routine for Katie and Bowie to go out for a late night walk. What most of us would presume to be a late night walk. Bowie, from my understanding, was very well trained, A very well trained dog used to walking on a leash next to his mom's. He was not the kind of dog to strain or pull away or one that was hard to control or direct when out walking, like some dogs do. He healed walking patiently next to Katie or Emma. Whoever held the leash this night, July 27, was no different. Although it was late after 10, the city was well lit. Restaurants and bars were still busy. Cars and buses still drove up and down the streets. People were out on bikes. People were walking and scootering to and from wherever they're going. We don't have an exact time, Captain, when Katie set out on her walk, but we do know that it was sometime after 10pm that night.

[Captain]

It's weird though, how we feel if other people are out and about, that we're in a safer environment when the most dangerous animal on earth is man.

[Nick (Host)]

Perfect that you key in on that and bring that up here. Because there was at least one person that knew Katie that after the fact would openly tell everyone, look, I worry that she thought that this park or this area, even though she had lived there for a considerable amount of time, she may have thought that this area or this park, again, it's considered to be generally safe. But this person's perspective, but maybe she

[Captain]

thought it was safer than it was.

[Nick (Host)]

Exactly. Safer than what it was, was this person's perspective. So sometime after 10pm, Katie takes the dog Bowie for a walk at 11:35. And we have multiple witnesses to back up this timestamp here on our timeline. Bowie and Katie, they stopped by Emma's work just to say hi, check in. Hey, how's it going? How's your shift? But anybody that's worked at bars or restaurants, one thing that is both good and bad about working in these environments, you don't always know, you know what time you got to be there and clock in. You don't always know what time your shift is going to end. Sometimes you're there until the business closes, other times you are there until it business slows down.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

And you might not be able to gauge that until you are have been working for several hours. So from my understanding, part of this stop was not just to say hello, but it was also, hey, typical conversation between restaurant and bar workers is going to be what time you think you're getting off tonight. And that was part of the conversation. And so we have several people there that, that say hi to Katie. Not just Emma, but also Katie and Emma are seen talking together. Emma is seen petting the dog, Bowie. Then Katie said that she would see Emma at home after Emma's work shift that evening. I want to be clear about something here because I've heard some different versions of this story based off of different sources. And it's, it's pretty well split down the middle. 50. 50. And you know, Captain, when there's, when there's different details, we always report all sides of it because I, we were not at the restaurant that night. We don't know exactly what their conversation was. So it's only fair to report what we have found in our research. A lot of the reports state what we just said. Emma says, you know, I think I'm getting off at this time, or maybe I'm working till closing. And Katie says, okay, great, I'll see you when you get home. Some of the other sources state that Katie said that she was trying to, that she would come back to the restaurant and her and Bowie, or at least Katie would be walking home with Emma that evening.

[Captain]

Which, which makes sense. It's a nice gesture.

[Nick (Host)]

Yes. And I'm sure on occasion that is what exactly happened, that she would show up and, and go home. Walk home with Emma. We should point out here though, Katie is on foot, obviously walking the dog. Emma rode her bike to work, which was typical of her. She rode her bike that night. So they could have been planning to walk home together. I think that it's. If I had to choose, I'm guessing that it's more of I'll see you when you get home, because Emma would be biking home that night. Now we're going to move on our timeline to just after midnight. Emma bikes home from work and when she gets to their apartment, she's surprised to not find Katie and Bowie there at home. Yeah. And anybody that's not owned dogs or had the pleasure of having a dog in the family, their, their other dog, Tori, is 14 years old. I've been lucky enough to have dogs that have lived to be 14, 15, 16 years old. They just don't want to walk as much as the little three year old dog does.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

And frankly, they, they, they start to turn into cats a little bit at some point in their old age where they just kind of want to be left alone and they just want to kind of lay around the house.

[Captain]

So you're just pointing out that Katie wasn't being mean to the other dog.

[Nick (Host)]

It makes perfect sense that you would be walking the dog that's young and needs the exercise. I always say a tired dog is a happy dog. 14 year old dogs are constantly tired, so they're constantly happy.

[Captain]

So are 40 year old men.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah. Emma arrives home, doesn't find her partner, Katie, and Bowie is not home as well. So she's like, okay, well, they've been out for a considerable amount of time at this point. But it's also not completely out of character, out of their routine. So she gets home and it's just old dog Tori all by her lonesome. As we said, it's late. It's after 12:30am by this point, Emma knew that Katie and Bowie had set out quite some time ago for their walk. Later, Emma would say in an interview, if I get home and Katie is not there, I always just call her. And she always answers. But this time she didn't answer. Emma said, I called her a bunch of times. She didn't answer. I text her a bunch. She didn't respond. So after a bit, Emma decides to use the Find My iPhone app to see where Katie may be. She opens up the app and of course Katie's phone is visible. She can see the location of Katie's phone. She says that she the the phone was located right inside the entrance to nearby Piedmont park, but the phone wasn't moving. This is concerning. Obviously, she's out on a walk. One would expect to see the phone start moving. At some point. Emma decided that she was going to head out and look for Katie. And she even stated later that she thought perhaps Katie had dropped her phone. Maybe she couldn't find it in the dark, but she really didn't know what was going on. So Emma rode her bike toward the phone location. At 12:57am she approached the gated entrance to Piedmont Park. Now, there are several entrances to this park.

[Captain]

Yeah, it's a big park.

[Nick (Host)]

This entrance is located at 10th street and Charles Allen Drive northeast. And as she arrived to this location, she says she could see a form lying on the ground. This visible to her from the gate area. She gets a little bit closer. She realizes this is her dog, Bowie. Bowie was lying on the roadway inside the park about 50ft, 50ft from the gate. Emma would later tell 11Alive News, I just ran in and I grabbed him because I didn't know maybe he was still alive. Obviously I knew something was wrong because he was just lying there. I didn't put two and two together because I didn't notice her right away. So just to be clear here, to be crystal clear, what she's saying is that at this point she's seeing her dog lying there lifeless about 50ft from the gate. She doesn't know or have any clue and has not seen Katie yet right at this point. So she's not caught sight of Katie yet. She's finding her dog and she doesn't really know what's going on. So let's continue on with her statement that she would give later. Emma says, the first thing I noticed is I saw Bowie. He was visible from the gate of the park. He was maybe 50ft from the gate on the inside. And she, unfortunately, meaning Katie, was further on the right. She said she thought at first that Bowie had been possibly been hit by a car because cars sometimes used that road in the park. If anybody's familiar with this park, and I'm sure there's a lot of people in the area that are, as the captain pointed out, it's a large park, but if you look it up on a map, there appears to be some type of paved pathway. Now, this could be mainly for pedestrians and people on bicycles, rollerblades, what have you. And it clearly is not large enough to be a two way street, but it does appear large enough that you could fit a car, a vehicle, golf cart, something of that nature on that pathway. And what Emma is saying is that from her experience in living near the park for a long period of time, many years sometimes vehicles end up on that paved pathway.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

He is laying, the dog is laying on that pathway. And her first thought, which I think would be natural reaction, would be to think possibly he got hit. But then of course you're going to be wondering, well, where is my girlfriend who was walking our dog?

[Captain]

And also, why isn't her phone moving when I'm looking at the tracker?

[Nick (Host)]

Exactly, exactly. She starts calling out for Katie and looking around, she had to look at her phone again to see where Katie's phone was. And then she followed the blip on her Find my iPhone app. She sees Katie. Eventually she finds Katie, who is lying on the ground again. This is to the right of where she found Bowie, but maybe about 100ft away. Emma says that she rushed to her and saw with horror that Katie was covered in bloody, gaping wounds. And then she ran out of the park after finding her partner. Later, Emma said, quote, I tried to feel for a pulse. It was clear that she was gone. It was dark. I didn't know what was going on. I was terrified and shocked.

[Captain]

Well, you also don't know if the killer is still around that area.

[Nick (Host)]

That's exactly right. And that's what Emma's father, Joe Clark, would later tell the news as well. He, he says, quote, she ran for her life. She didn't know if someone was still here. Now, Emma calls police frantically, and this is at 1:10am so let's talk about this 911 call, because people that are familiar with this case, they know that there's been a lot of different opinions. Varying opinions on persons who have tried to decipher the communication, the words, the statements made by EMMA in this 911 call.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

The transcription that I have here, Captain, goes something like this. Emma is stating, I'm at the entrance to Piedmont Park. I was just searching for my girlfriend because I couldn't find her. She's dead. She's here at Piedmont Park. Please help. The dispatcher response, you said somebody's dead at Piedmont Park. Emma. Oh, my God. Yes. Help. Please send help. Oh, my God. Dispatcher where is she at the park? Emma says she is right near the entrance. Like, I don't know how to explain it, and given a little bit of a description here. I've listened to this 911 call a few times. At this point, she's breathing heavily as she's trying to communicate with the dispatcher. And this very likely, Captain, is from a multitude of things. Like she said, if we are to believe everything she says, she. She sprinted out of the park because she's terrified, having found her dog and her. Her partner dead. And whatever happened to the two of them was a vicious attack. She fled the park, according to her statement, so one would expect her to be breathing heavily. And she's also probably terrified and in shock all at the same time. Then, on the 911 call, Emma can be heard talking to someone who sounds like a man, like a man's voice, a male's voice who's yelling something. You can't really tell what he's saying because it's in the background. It's been reported that the person was saying, what the fuck?

[Captain]

Well, because he. He might have came upon the. The dog at that point, or maybe he came upon Katie at that point and then he's. He's freaking out as well.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah. So just to add a little better description to this, if. If one were to be walking in the park, jogging at night, or walking through the park, what have you, this person likely may have seen Katie first. If he. If he were to have been coming from the opposite direction, he would have seen Katie first. Who knows if he saw the dog or not? But then if. If his reaction was the same as Emma's, to get out of the park, you're going to head toward the nearest exit entrance, and that's going to be this gated one that is at this corner of the 10th of Charles Allen in 10th Street. So I picture this as her standing just outside. Right. Because there's an intersection there. There. You'd feel safer out on the road and he's probably approaching her like, what did I just see? What the hell's going on? You know? And so we know what it's reported that he said. He says, what the f. Emma responds, and you can hear her. She says something like, did you just see that? And you hear the. The male voice respond saying, yes. Emma then says, that's my girlfriend. And to hear my voice say it doesn't do. You would really need to hear her say it because there are some people that. That don't like the words that she's using at the time. But I think you have to hear the tone of her voice, like it's. She's saying it. The way I hear it, the way that it hits my ear, Captain, is it sounds to me like. Like somebody that is trying to describe an observation that they just made, but it's something they can't believe.

[Captain]

Can't believe him, maybe don't understand exactly.

[Nick (Host)]

Like. Like I don't know what's going on either. So then Emma tells the dispatcher, quote, like she's dead. Dead. The dispatcher tells her help is on the way. Now, the call does last a little bit longer than this, but there's no. There's no interaction between Emma and the dispatcher after this. It sounds to me like the call continues because the dispatcher, we've heard a bunch of these 911 calls, and a lot of times the. The person receiving the call is now alerting emergency services, whether it be the cops, ambulance, both fire department in some situations. And so the rest of the 911 call is the dispatcher alerting emergency services, but telling the person that he's trying to coordinate with that. I. I think she hung up because you have the ambulance and police who are looking for more information, you know, near the entrance.

[Advertisement Voice]

Okay, great.

[Nick (Host)]

What entrance? He doesn't have the person still. He doesn't have Emma still on the line to relay that information to everyone. So, like, we just covered someone else found Katie. This is immediately right after Emma did. And that someone who sounds male in the background of the 911 call emerged from the park entrance that Emma ran out of. The same entrance exit that Emma ran out of.

[Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

But I want to be clear here. Police have never addressed who that person was. That, to me, is. Is a big stumbling block for us as researchers and as true crime storytellers. I really want to know who this person was, where they were coming from, how long they were in the park. But we also, we need to be logical in our thinking here because of Course one could argue, could this have been the killer having watched Emma find Katie from the shadows and then decided to flee and act like he didn't know what was going on either. But the flip of that would be that whoever killed Katie, whoever attacked her in the park that night, we'll go through some more of the details of this crime, but they would have been covered and blood and that would have been obvious to Emma from outside of the park once that intersection is well lit and she would have been able to see, likely been able to see that the person was covered in blood. One detail that I think is key here is because it was so late at night, technically the park is closed at this time. Like the, the gates are still open and, and I believe that they close and lock those at some point. But what we do know is there are restrooms, public restrooms, male, female restrooms at this park, a couple of different, at a couple different locations. And so one thought that I had here was the, the restrooms. It's been confirmed and reported that they were already closed and locked up for the night.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Mm.

[Nick (Host)]

Could this have just been somebody who just decided to stop into the park to try to use one of those restrooms, finds the door locked and then, then stumbles upon this horrible situation and gets out of dodge? But the other thing too to keep in mind is if this were the killer, he would not have had the ability to go into one of those bathrooms and wash up there. He could not have cleaned up before fleeing and being spotted by Emma as he's leaving the park.

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[Nick (Host)]

It's the end of a long week.

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[Captain]

All right, we are back. Cheers, mates. Cheers to you, Colonel.

[Nick (Host)]

Cheers to you, Captain.

[Captain]

Okay, so, so many questions that I have so far. 1 I It's very possible because this park is so large and they don't lock the gates that some people local to this area would still use it as a way to travel. I'll go into the park and use those paths to get from point A to B. So the, the person could have still been in the park and just leaving the park or maybe they're using the park to commute.

[Nick (Host)]

Yep.

[Captain]

I'm sure they know who this individual is. But is it possible that you, you commit a crime, you discard of your, your clothes, change your clothes and, and then you happen upon the scene as if you don't know what's going on. And then I think there's a lot of questions that law enforcement's going to have with Emma, Katie's partner. What time did you leave work? What time did you get to the park? I'm sure if she's telling the truth, that the information that they probably could have got off of her cell phone would track her whereabouts. But also, like you said, it's a very dramatic and tragic situation. So you do things that might not be great and you might have some actions that compromise the crime scene, like picking up the dog or touching the victim. And then we, we every crime documentary where there's a 911 call, you can spend hours, if not days dissecting what, what the person meant by the tone in their voice, their actions, what choice of words they used. We don't know how we'd react ourselves unless we were in that situation. I think if I was ever in a true crime documentary and I found somebody murdered And I called 911, people would be dissecting that call, saying, he's too calm. Because normally when I've been in situations that are emergencies and have had to call 91 1. I know that the information I give to them is going to be so important to help the victim. Right. I could see myself being too calm and then people making comments, well, this guy was so calm, he must be the killer. But I don't think it's out of bounds that law enforcement would go, hey, we got to look into Emma's story, what's true, what's not true, and look at the background of, of their relationship as well.

[Nick (Host)]

After the 911 call, obviously police swarmed to the park. They saw immediately that this was not just your run of the mill big city stabbing. Quote, it's a gruesome scene, end quote. This comes from Deputy Police Chief Charles Hampton. Some of the cops on the scene describe it as, quote, hard to stomach. Right. So Katie and Bowie unfortunately are both found dead at the park. This is dead upon arrival. For everybody responding to the scene. This isn't put them in an ambulance and they died on the way to the hospital or died at the hospital. This is, unfortunately, we're killed in the park. And it's obvious. And, and that goes back to Emma's statement that she says, I didn't know what to do, but it was obvious she was gone. It's been described, and forgive me for the, the crudeness of this statement, but it's been described that like Katie had been cut to ribbons is at least one of the descriptions that was provided.

[Captain]

Well, I think that's why law enforcement wasn't saying that this looked like a typical big city stabbing because typically in a stabbing case it's somebody tried to rob somebody, maybe the person, the victim didn't have something to give to the robber or they put up a fight, the robber stabs him a couple times and leaves them. This is not that. This is, this seems like a vicious personal murder.

[Nick (Host)]

Well, and we'll, we'll let the listeners decide for themselves what they think because we're going to go and we're going to talk about the autopsy report here in I apologize in advance in graphic detail. So skip ahead if needed. What was done to Katie was incredibly gruesome and we are not going through these details to be gross or disturbing or any of that. But because her injuries I think the investigators would agree with this statement could potentially tell us a lot about her killer.

[Joe Sheba (News Reporter)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

And may even help form theories about the murder itself. Katie's autopsy was performed on Friday, July 30, 2021 by Medical Examiner Karen Sullivan, MD. When the 40 year old Katie's body was brought in she still had her right earbud in and her socks and shoes on. She was wearing her T shirt and her pants and underwear were found were as they were found, which we will get into in a moment. But all of these items of course were removed and then placed into evidence. Real quick on the earbud thing, Katie, like many people out walking or exercising, she actively was listening to music or podcasts. And so given that the earbud is found still in place in the right ear, it's believed by Emma and police that she was probably walking through the park that evening listening to something on her on her phone, which could mean that she may have never even heard her attacker approaching her.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Katie was stabbed upwards of 50 times. 50 times more than that. The autopsy report says that her death was due to sharp force injuries of her face, neck and torso. But that doesn't even begin to describe the wounds. Essentially somebody carved her up. She had at least 15 incised wounds from her forehead to her chin. Slicing cuts that flayed her skin open in an X pattern. This including her nose and lips. Both eyelids were sliced through and both lips cut all the way through to the underlining tissue. Both carotid arteries were cut in a gaping nine and quarter inch by five and a half incised wound, inflicting several overlapping slashes. The cuts to her throat were so deep that they went all the way through to the vertebrae and through to the muscles on the back of her neck. This is probably the hardest part of the autopsy report. Her heart was still beating while this those injuries occurred. She had sharp force injuries to both breasts and multiple stabs to her upper and lower back. The back wounds penetrating her aorta and left lung and liver. Meaning these are very deep wounds. Those areas had started to fill with blood. This again meaning that her heart was beating while this happened as well. There was Also at least 14 sharp force injuries that span the lower back and she had a multi colored tattoo on the lower back region. Now it's, there's been a lot of speculation over the past two and a half years roughly since this murder took place. The last almost three years since this murder took place. About what that meant was some had speculated that it might be a pride tattoo and that the killer was trying to destroy the pride tattoo. To be, to be completely clear here, there's never been any confirmation that I could find of what that, what the tattoo was of. So when you, when you hear that or you read that somewhere, please note that that is just speculation. Katie had sharp force Injuries of the abdomen with evisceration of the small intestine, hemorrhaging in the bowel indicates that she was alive while this was done to her as well. Defects in the shirt correspond to wounds on the body. What that means to the layperson is she was stabbed through the shirt. So the, the holes in the shirt unfortunately line up with the holes in the body underneath the shirt. But what we do know, Captain, is that then at some point, the attacker or attackers lifted up her black T shirt that she was wearing because they found the letters F and AT were carved into her lower chest and abdomen area. She's listed as weighing 155 pounds and almost 5 foot 7 inches tall. So even though the letters fat are carved into her, she's not fat by any means at all. And we can kind of try to get into the killer or the attacker's head here and after we get through some of the details of the crime to see if that means anything. But she's totally normal, healthy size for her age.

[Captain]

So were the letters capitalized or.

[Nick (Host)]

So here's the description, the best description that I could find. The F and the A were on the right side of the midline of her body and the T on the left. Okay. The T being the deepest of the three. So that's the deepest wound of the three letters. Each letter was several inches tall. To try to describe it the way that I read this, Captain, the autopsy report, the way that it's described, the person would have had to have been standing over top of her to obviously to do this and might have been. We'll keep going through the information here, but these letters may have been upside down due to how the killer was standing above the victim. Her pants and underwear were down around her knees when she was found. There was sharp force injury to the lower back area. There were no vaginal injuries and no sign of rape. According to the me she had lots of defensive wounds on her hands, as we would expect. She also had multiple contusions indicating that she was beaten with something. You know, she's not just stabbed. She was beaten with something as well. And, and this could have been simply something as simple as fist, or it could have been an actual object. There was.

[Captain]

Or the backside of the. The handle of the knife.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, we don't have anything conclusive to say if it was a heavy metal object or anything like that. It's. It's just simply saying that she was beaten with something, possibly fist. Okay.

[Captain]

Two things and, and give your thoughts on these to Me, okay. There's no physical evidence of sexual assault, but I think that's kind of misleading because if she's found with her pants and her underwear around her ankles, that almost seems like that's what the perpetrator was attempting, but maybe just weren't able to commit the assault. And then my other thing. Do you believe this is one attacker? Because we have different wounds that are telling us that there's technically different instruments used. Is it possible that there's two attackers?

[Nick (Host)]

I think that it's, it's possible. I, I want to refrain from using the word likely because I could see this being a single attacker and multiple attackers. The, the. I think what lends itself to one thinking that maybe we have multiple attackers here is the presence of the dog. Yeah, right. This is a young 50 pound dog. It's a decent sized dog, a pit bull. So they're, they're typically fast and, and protective dogs. So the presence of the dog makes it more complicated obviously for one perpetrator to commit this unless you are able to neutralize the threat of the dog quickly. And, but the earbuds still being in almost that is indicative to me of a surprise attack of some type of ambush.

[Captain]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick (Host)]

So then you have to play at, play this out and go, well, how could somebody surprise and ambush the victim but also neutralize the dog at the same time? And that's where you circle back and go, well, was there multiple attackers? The other thing that I want to present here, and I don't know why I can't shake this idea if the dog is, is very well behaved and responds to being called and listens. You're out at night. Yeah, there's other people out walking around and such. But when, once you go into the park, this is a large open area, is there a chance that you let the leash go or let Bowie off the leash and he stumbled upon something before you did?

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

That's the way that I could see this playing out and working, and I hate to use that word, but when we, you have to look at these things the way that a detective would. How did this play out and how does this make sense logically that, that what we know happened, happened. And so that's how I feel like this possibly works. Now back to what you said about the pants being pulled down. I have a lot of thoughts on that and I agree with you. That could be, that could be exactly the situation where the attacker thought to about raping or sexually assaulting the victim and for some reason did not for Any number of reasons. The other thought that I had, too, is based off of the, the, the carving the letters into the victim. Seems that has to be important to the killer or he would never have done that. Was it just out of necessity? Like when you. When he pulled up the shirt, right.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

He.

[Nick (Host)]

He already stabbed her through the shirt. He then pulled up the shirt because the letters fat are not through the shirt, that the shirt was lifted up and then carved into the body. Was it necessary for him to pull down the pants to do that too? I don't know. You know, we have a general location of where those letters were carved, but not the exact location.

[Captain]

Well, then it also makes you wonder, is the pulling down of the pants and underwear, is it to suggest the sex of the attacker?

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, well, I, to me, the, the viciousness of the attack is suggestive of the gender of the attacker. I mean, I'm. I'm just playing the numbers here, but an attack this violent is almost always a. A male attacker. Now, we. I've, you know, you and I have reviewed a lot of these. A lot of cases. I shouldn't say a lot of these cases because just like the cops and detectives are pointing out, this is different from the homicides they've investigated in the very big city of Atlanta, Georgia. But one case, and I, and I know this to be true in a couple cases, but I can think of one right away where they initially suspected sexual assault on the victims because the pants were found to have been, you know, they were down around the knees or ankles of the victims. And later they determined there was no sexual assault, and they figured out that the victims had been dragged. And the way that they were dragged, you know, it's very hard to pick up an entire human being, an adult human being. So oftentimes you drag them by the. The legs, the feet, the arms, the shoulders, what have you. And in that case, they, they were able to determine, based off of the drag marks and off of other things that they were seeing on the body, that the pants were found pulled down to the. The knees and ankle area simply because the perpetrators had dragged and moved the bodies. And just by dragging them along the ground, that surface is what pulled and tugged at the pants to where they were found. Eventually.

[Captain]

1. Did law enforcement find any evidence of Katie being dragged there?

[Nick (Host)]

I found one report that says that she may have been dragged, and that's. That to me, is. Is really something that I'm very invested in trying to get to the bottom of. And if I had that information, trust me, it would be here because that was. There are two things in this case that, that, to me, I really want to know the answers to. And we'll get. We can get to some of that stuff in. In the theories. But wrapping up the autopsy information here, as we said, unfortunately, Katie was still alive while some of these wounds were being inflicted. So whoever did this. What we can say with certainty, Captain, is whoever did this was incredibly vicious and. And likely wanted her to suffer one.

[Captain]

Like you said, most likely completely covered in blood.

[Nick (Host)]

Yes. And Katie was stabbed both in the front and back. So someone very deliberately turned her over to continue inflicting penetrating wounds.

[Captain]

Yeah, unless they attacked her from behind and then she turned around to defend herself and then the attack continued.

[Nick (Host)]

How deep and how severe a lot of these wounds are, I would be surprised if she was standing for very long into this. This attack. I think she's. She's. You know, we talked about neutralizing the threat of the dog. I think she's been neutralized and taken down to the ground rather quickly. Now, nothing has been released about the type of weapon used, so we don't know for sure what weapon was used. Maybe the police do not know as well. But based on the slicing wounds and the amount of penetrating stab wounds, it had to be something very substantial, in my opinion. And this was not, you know, just to kind of touch on motive here for a minute. This was not a typical stab and grab robbery. First of all, as far as we know, Katie wasn't robbed. Emma told the Washington Post that robbery did not appear to be the motive because they didn't take her phone. So her phone was found. And why wouldn't it be? I mean, we know that Emma was using the Find My iPhone app or says she was to locate Katie. Katie was wearing $200 headphones. They didn't take those headphones. They didn't take her keys. And a couple of sources I did see that money was found on her person, a small amount of money. So as far as robbery goes, this doesn't appear to be a robbery, have gone horribly wrong and turned into this vicious murder because any items of value that she had with her that night, according to Emma, and at least what the. The limited information we can get from police, all of those items and possibly cash were found still on or near her when she was located at. In the park that night.

[Captain]

Well, I was going to ask you, do we have. Do we know how deep the stab wounds were? Because with the amount of slashes, almost feels like. Like a box cutter as opposed to A knife?

[Nick (Host)]

Well, yes, and you're right, that would be likely a sharper item that would, would lead to kind of these gaping large slashes and cuts. But you know that this, we do know that the stab wounds were not just into the back, but they, they went into vital organs.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

And so they were deep enough for that. But the, I don't know, the gaping nine and a quarter inch wound to the carotid artery area seems like. Yes. Like it would have to be something very sharp like a box cutter. But then the problem with the box

[Captain]

cutter is wouldn't go in 9 inches. It'd probably break off before then.

[Nick (Host)]

Exactly. Now that's, that's very insightful there, Captain. What we don't, the information we don't have is what kind of weapon was used. Because like you said, and I would expect the same thing, that a box cutter, the blade would break off would have been found at the scene or on. Somewhere on our victim here. I kind of.

[Captain]

And, but it's open case, so we're not privy to all the information. So for all we know, a blade was found with. Inside her. And they're keeping that information back because that's something that only the attacker would know.

[Nick (Host)]

Exactly. They may know. Just because it's not been released doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know exactly what kind of weapon killed the victims. You know, my mind kind of went to something like the Moscow College, the Idaho College murders with that kind of

[Captain]

more like large bag, that giant bag of a person.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, like a large Rambo style blade. But again, yeah, we don't know. And, and we're not medical examiners, so it's difficult to, for us to review these wounds and tell you kind of.

[Captain]

Well, maybe we are, but we're just not telling people we are.

[Nick (Host)]

So if it wasn't robbery,

[Captain]

it wasn't a sexual assault.

[Nick (Host)]

Right. It get that's. It's like then now you, you go into. Considering the wounds that were inflicted on, on our victim and the amount of wounds. So that's telling too, because that tells us the attacker took time to do what he wanted to do. And this is, this is where my mind goes with this. There are a lot of people that are suspicious of Emma and we will definitely get into why that may be. I don't see so much a reactionary attack here. This to me sounds a lot more like all of the FBI books and stuff that I've reviewed. All of these serial killer types do that we've reviewed where it's like they Create this fantasy of what they want to do to somebody, how they want to attack someone, and then took the time and felt like they had the time to do what he wanted to do to the victim. We know that this took a considerable amount of time. How much time is hard to say, but it does not appear if someone's choosing to carve letters into a victim. That is suggestive to me that this killer or attackers did not feel rushed. And the letters are very. That's a very deliberate act, Carving letters into the torso of a living human being in a public park in the middle of a big city, right in plain sight. I mean, she's not found behind a bunch of trees or in shrubbery or in the woods. She's lying on the ground in plain sight under a tree or alongside the roadway in the park. The roadways where people would naturally walk and traverse at nighttime. Especially at nighttime.

[Captain]

Yeah. It makes you start questioning where the attack happened. Did he drag Katie to this location so that, that she would have been found? Again, if we have her phone, can we track the movements of her phone? Obviously that's information that the police would probably want to hold back. But we were dealing with a very violent individual and we're dealing with somebody. This is somebody that stabbed somebody over 50 times, basically in a public park. It wouldn't be surprising to me if this person hasn't committed other crimes similar to this, this attack.

[Nick (Host)]

Well, and the thing here to me is if, in fact, if this were a thrill kill, was that part of the thrill for the, the killer, just the, the fact that they would have the riskiness of doing it in a public location, that, I mean, walking this fantasy as far as you can to the edge without going over the edge. And now I've seen some estimates that have been put forth by experts here that vary, that say that, you know, if, if this thing went down really quick and happened really fast, it's possible, not likely, but possible. All of these injuries could have been inflicted in as little as 3 minutes time or as many as 10 minutes time. And I have to believe that it's probably closer to beyond the 5 minute mark. Somewhere between 5, 6 minutes in that 10 minute mark is what I would be guessing. And if that's the case, I mean, anybody could have walked by and caught a glimpse of this killer hunched over top of a victim. So was that part of. If it was a thrill kill, was that part of the thrill, not just the attack itself or the riskiness of the attack, but also the location and the possibility of being discovered or being cited and then having to. To flee.

[Captain]

Yeah, and that's probably where I disagree with you a little bit. To me, the, the, the stab wounds and the slashes, I think could happen within a very short amount of time. The time period then elapses a little longer when you, when the killer has to reach up, pull the shirt up, and then start carving in letters. But I still think all that could have taken place under three minutes easily.

[Police Official]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

But that's not my opinion that. My opinion is five to six minutes. Somewhere between that and 10 minutes. That, that's experts opinions that as little as three minutes and as many as 10. Now, and I'm not the only one to say this either, but the fact that Katie was alive while much of this took place.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

This implies, based on the time and the care, for lack of better term, that the killer took with this handiwork work, is highly suggestive that the attacker is some type of sexual sadist. Someone who gets pleasure out of the pain that they inflict on the victim.

[Captain]

So much more to get to in this case. Please join us back here in the garage.

[Nick (Host)]

Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.

[Police Official]

It.