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Killing was Purposeful /// Part 2 /// 842
01:04:53
Killing was Purposeful /// Part 2 /// 842 Part 2 of 4 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com Starting in the 80s and then continuing for two decades, Toledo and northwest Ohio was experiencing an increase in violent crimes. Horrifically, abduction, murder, and rape were on the rise. Some of these cases remain open to this very day. Murder was difficult to investigate. Some cases were traditional homicides - person kills someone they know for reasons specific to their relationship. Others were more random. There were cases that were closed out with someone being held accountable for their actions and then there are cases that have fallen by the wayside. These cases have gone cold. But as we look back we must consider the possibility that one or more serial offenders operated in this area and went undetected. This week we take a look at the still unsolved homicide case of Lori Ann Hill. Beer of the Week - Lawn Mower Yard Lager by Churchill Brewing Garage Grade - 3 and a half bottle caps...
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- [00:00]
Indeed Advertiser
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- [00:59]
Nick
SA Foreign welcome to True Crime Garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me, as always, is a man who is like the Michael Jordan of being a son of a Here is the Captain.
- [01:52]
The Captain
Yeah, the roof is the ceiling. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.
- [02:02]
Nick
Today we got some more beer in the old garage fridge. We are drinking Lawn Mower Yard Lager by Churchill Brewing Company. Lawnmower Yard Lager is delightfully crisp and refreshing. It's light bodied, a little multi and very crushable. Garage grade three and a half bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks of praise to our good garage friends. First up, a big shout out to Christy Hoffdal in Vancouver, Washington.
- [02:30]
The Captain
A big time. We like you. Jib goes out to Justin from Castle Rock, Colorado.
- [02:36]
Nick
Here's a cheers to April C in Ramsey, Minnesota. I purposely let you have this one because you came up with this nickname. So the shout out is to Jessica and Captain Big Dick, somebody we met at a crime con and they're from Clayton, North Carolina. Jessica and Captain Big Dick from Clayton, North Carolina.
- [02:55]
The Captain
And raise your glasses in the air to Jessica and Captain Big Dick and Clayton, North Carolina.
- [03:02]
Nick
And last but certainly not least, here's one close to the garage. We got a cheers to dominic in Columbus, Ohio. Everyone we just mentioned, they went to true crime garage.com clicked on the pint glass, helped us out with this week's Beer Run for the beer fund and for that we thank you.
- [03:18]
The Captain
Yeah, BWR you and Beer Run. If you have a topic that you'd like to hear on the show, whether it's the. The big show, like we call the big garage show, like we call this show, or off the record. Hit us up. Captainrucrime. Garage. And that is enough of the business.
- [03:36]
Nick
All right, everybody, gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Where we left off here, Captain, was the police talking and speaking with Walter Zembeck back in 1985, giving conflicting statements to different investigators, conflicting statements about his whereabouts of the night in question to different law enforcement agencies. However, what we do know is that police moved on from Walter Zempic after he passed a lie detector test back in 1985. The exam, which was of course, all centered around on questions if he had killed Lori, revealed no deception. So at some point, they decided to move on from him, and the case went cold until 2008. So let's fast forward back to 2008, go back to the future here. The cold case investigators reviewed that case file and were struck by these inconsistencies that they were seeing in Walter's epic stories. They spoke with his mom, Carol. Now, his mother Carol had been interviewed in 1985, but because Zembik had already passed that lie detector test when she was spoken to, she was never really asked about her son's alibi in 85. She was only asked about, like his character. Now, in 2008, she tells the cold case investigators the following, that on the evening that Lorianne Hill disappeared, Zempic had left their home to go find her, stating that later that evening, Hill called the house three times looking for Walter Zempic. The first call was early in the evening. We don't. We're not getting exact times on some of this, Captain, but keep in mind, she's being asked these questions 23 years after the fact. So during this first call, Carol answers the phone. She says that she was surprised. She thought that. That her son was already with Lori Hill. So she was surprised that Lori was calling looking for her son. Then she says there was a second call. This took place several hours after the first call. And this is the one that it sounds like. Investigators believe that this is the call that most likely came from Mr. G's Pizza. And this is because Carol, when she's talking to the police, she says, look, I remember it being very noisy in the background. And I also remember Lori being very angry when I told her, look, I already told you, he's not home. So he's still not home at this time, several hours after the first call.
- [06:34]
The Captain
Well, this call could have came from the party as well. We don't know if she made a call call from the party.
- [06:40]
Nick
That's a good point. And we also don't have time stamps for these calls.
- [06:44]
The Captain
Exactly.
- [06:45]
Nick
So she also remembered that Lori was again very angry during a third call, which she says she believes was one hour later, approximately one hour later, she even swore at the mother, saying something nasty to the mother and then hung up on her. During the third call, though the mother Carol says that she couldn't hear noise in the background. There wasn't a bunch of noise in the background like she had heard on the second call. Carol further remembered that the phone rang two more times that night. The the first of those two was very late. Again it was this time it was Hill's sister Lori and Hill sister Rachel calling looking for her. Carol remembered that after that phone call, her son Walter Zempic came home with his friend whose last name Carol remember being Lonsway. L O N S W A Y. We would later learn so she doesn't know this in her statement at, at this time when she's giving the statement In 2008, we would later learn that a friend of Zempics did exist with the last name of Lonsway and his name was Willie Lonway. So Zic's mother Carol stated that Lonway was a good friend of Zempic and that he was around Zempic's age. Carol noted that Zic was drunk when he came home. Later the phone rang again. She says again it was Lorianne Hill's sister reporting that Lori was missing. Zempic then said that he was leaving to go to Lori Hill's parents home and he left with Willie Lonsway. Upon questioning by the investigators during this interview, Carol was consistent in her memory of the events of October 25, 1985. It's interesting too here, Captain, that not only is she, you know, not only does she say she remembers it, but, but she appears to remember that quite clearly, being able to give some decent description to some of the phone calls and the order of the events. Now, regardless of how much weight and credibility we want to give to Walter Zempic's mother's statement in 2008, we need to note that that is completely inconsistent with what Walter Zempic told investigators in 1985. Both stories, right? Both stories that he gives now in 2008 we have Walter Zic. He's living in Strawberry Plains, Tennessee. Strawberry Plains forever. Investigators traveled there to speak with him. Armed with a search warrant for his DNA in the interview, he admitted he had lied to both the Lucas county and Fulton county authorities back in 1985, but he said he couldn't remember why he lied to them. But he did deny being with Willie Lonsway at all. Yeah. So this is December 30, 2008, and we do have the, we have the transcript from that. We'll, we'll read through a brief portion of it here. This is the part of the 2008 interview where the detectives are confronting him about his statements that he gave in 1985. So the first question is. Okay, I'm going to ask you this again now. You gave two different statements to two different police officers, and both of them we know were lies because you weren't home that night. Your mom said you weren't home. Lori called your house, and if Lori called looking for you, that means you weren't home. Walter's answer right? Question so we are clear. The 29th, two days later, and then on the first three days later, you talked to police. All of this is fresh in your mind they're talking about. All of this is fresh in your mind at the time.
- [10:54]
The Captain
Right.
- [10:55]
Nick
They say, what did you do on that night? And you said, well, I was home at 7 o' clock and I went to sleep at 11, which isn't true because your mom said you weren't home. Answer Right, I wasn't home. Question Then four days later, you talk to different police. They say, what did you do? I went to Southwick, meaning the mall that he had mentioned. Hung out with this girl. I can't remember her last name. She was at my house from 10 till 2. Which wasn't true. Right. She wasn't at your house from 10 to 2. Answer no question. So that's twice. That's two stories that weren't true that you'd given to police just after your girlfriend is found murdered. Answer huh? And affirmative. Is, is the response given there. He's, he's agreeing with what they're saying.
- [11:44]
The Captain
I can say if I'm law enforcement, if I'm a detective and somebody is inconsistent and somebody's lying, that is a, that's like giving a dog a bone. And I would have a hard time letting go of that bone.
- [11:59]
Nick
Yes. And clearly in 2008, that's the investigator's feelings as well. I, if it were me there interviewing him, I wouldn't show any signs of this. I wouldn't react to it or I wouldn't say anything. But it would be surprising to me for him to just so casually Agree. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I did lie. Yeah, I did give two different statements. Like, he doesn't seem to try to talk his way out of that.
- [12:25]
The Captain
It's kind of strange though that he doesn't remember. He's basically telling law enforcement, yeah, I lied, but I don't remember the reason why. But you have to remember he's, he's a young adult at this time. So is it just possible that he just got scared initially? Like, yeah, she was my ex girlfriend. Yes. She was calling me. You know, we know what happened to her. We know that her body was found. Is it, is it a possibility that he's just scared that somehow they, they're going to try to pin this on him?
- [12:59]
Nick
See, dude, I can totally agree with that because, I mean, like you said, he's 18 at the time when he's first questioning question. She's missing for a period of time and then she's found. If he had nothing to do with this, no one could imagine their girlfriend, ex girlfriend, being found dead in a cornfield days after being reported missing. And, and now we Fast forward to 2008 when they're questioning him in December of 2008 and it's over 20 years later. And I think that I, you know, anybody that looks back, given a long enough timeline, I think anybody that looks back to their teen years and, and even when they're 18, as was Walter at the time of this horrible event, I think it's, almost all of us can say that thing, that thing was really dumb. Why did I do that? I don't even know why I would do that. Like, you know what I mean? Like you, you don't, you can't even reconcile with why you would have behaved a certain way or said something in, in the moment back then, it, it's, I think of times where I, I lied to get out of being busted for something or kind of squirmed or weaseled my way out of or into something. And I kind of look back and I go, why wasn't I just honest in the moment?
- [14:23]
The Captain
Like, yeah, or sometimes the lie that you come up with is worse than just telling the truth. Get you into more trouble. But what are your thoughts on the statements from his mother? Is there anything that jumps out to you?
- [14:38]
Nick
Well, I wish that I wasn't armed with all the information that I, that I am fully aware of now.
- [14:47]
The Captain
Right.
- [14:47]
Nick
To give you what my reaction would be to that question. Without all the information, she's going to change her statement at some point. And so while it sounds to Me, I, I think that if, regardless of her changing her statement, what the other statement is, I actually think that there's probably a lot of truth in this statement that she gives. She remembers it so clearly and so vividly to the point of saying, hey, on this one call I heard a whole bunch of noise in the background. And on this other call I didn't hear any noise in the background.
- [15:21]
The Captain
Right.
- [15:22]
Nick
And those, sometimes people stretch a story and say too many words because they're trying to make up for something, they're trying to cover their tracks, they're trying to sell you a lie. And other times there are details in a story or explanation that simply because they're, they're true, they're, they're factual information, or at least they believe them to be true. And so I think that there's probably a lot of truth in this statement. I wouldn't boil it down to that. She remembers correctly, 23 years later exactly how many phone calls she received. We know that she's unable to provide a time other than vaguely. This one was early in the evening, this one was a couple hours later. She does recall speaking to the sister at some point that the sister calls because Lori's missing. I think she's got the details right, the timing's a little off. But what's, what's the most important part of her story is Walter Zempic is not home during the times that he, in both of his statements, even though they're different, they both end up with him being home right at 10 o' clock. And that is when everything is in question. Because regardless if you believe the Bettinger's sighting of the three kids in the middle of the county road on their way home, we have confirmed sightings by several people that Lori Hill was alive and well, using the phone at the pizza joint, offered more than one ride.
- [16:54]
The Captain
By two different credible people, eyewitnesses seeing her walking.
- [16:59]
Nick
It's that 10pm Time marker and everything after that is in question. And he, in both of his versions of his alibis for that night, he puts himself at home at 10. His mom asked in 2008. He's not home at 10 o' clock in her story.
- [17:15]
The Captain
Yeah, but here's what sticks out to me. And I think one of the things with, you know, a tragic event is sometimes you have to try to make sense of crazy. But as you know, sometimes in these cases there's logic to it, there's reason to some of this stuff. And so what sticks out to me, if I'm law enforcement that where I'm confused by is I have this individual that's lying to me, okay, Inconsistencies, changing stories multiple times. And then in the future, now he is now telling me, yes, I did lie. I don't know why I did. But what she says that sticks out to me contradicts the end result in the sense of she says, well, I got these calls from his ex girlfriend, he's 18, she's 14. They, like we said, they either dated for a few months or maybe was even a little bit longer, but she's calling for help essentially, or calling, that's what he believes. And we have the call from the sister. So then what does he do? He goes out. Now whether he's by himself or with a friend, he is going out.
- [18:34]
Nick
The sister is calling for help because.
- [18:37]
The Captain
Because she can't find her sister because Lori's missing.
- [18:40]
Nick
According to Carol's statements, Lori isn't calling looking for a ride, she's simply calling looking for Walter Zempic.
- [18:49]
The Captain
But what I think sticks out to me, which would be confusing if I'm law enforcement, as he goes out, whether it's by himself or with a friend to go look for her. And so to me that is an act of kindness, of caring, of, you know, did something happen? Did she go, you know, did he know she was going to this party? Did you know, did he hear about this altercation? But to me it's an act of kindness or caring that I'm, I need to go find her. You know, her sister said she's missing. I'm, well, I'll go look for her, I'll swing by her parents house or whatever. So to me that's an act of caring as opposed to what is the end result. We have a murdered 14 year old in a cornfield. So do you see that as conflicting.
- [19:40]
Nick
The act of caring?
- [19:42]
The Captain
No, no, I'm saying like if I'm law enforcement, I hear the statements from his mom. It's doesn't seem like there's no confrontation between Lori and Walter that we know of. So it's just, it doesn't seem to make any sense of why would he want to find her and kill her, you know, and, and then also he tells his mom, well, I'm going to go look for her. So I don't know, it just kind of contradicts the ending.
- [20:10]
Nick
Right. But I mean, I get that it could be viewed as an act of kindness, but I, but I mean if you give me the afternoon, I'll give you a baker's dozen. Of people that killed somebody and then went out and joined a search party to look for them. I think the, the big part that stands out to me here is regardless of why he lied, you know, he's not, he's not there at 10 o' clock. He's, he's confirming that in 2008 and both of his stories in 1985 put him at home at 10 o' clock and then staying there for the entirety of the night after that. 10 o' clock marker. His mom's story is not that. His mom's story is that he wasn't home until it was notified that she was missing. Remember, Rachel doesn't go out looking for her sister until what is close to 2:00am that's four hours after that 10:00 clock marker. And so what, what stands out to me, I find it incredibly weird that if he did go out and look for, as his mom says, which I believe that he did, that is not anything that suggests that he is guilty. Right. Like, I don't understand why in 1985 he didn't tell them that he went out looking for that for her at 2 o' clock in the morning. Further, I want to point this out. We do know based off of the reports off of the paperwork, that Walter Zempic in 2008 was, was interviewed on December 30th. What we don't know is when his mother Carol was interviewed in 2008.
- [21:45]
The Captain
Right.
- [21:46]
Nick
Because I wonder, is there a chance that mom is interviewed prior to December 30th and she calls her son and says, hey, you're never going to believe this. The sheriff's department showed up today and they were, remember your old girlfriend Lorianne Hill from when you were a kid? They were asking me about her disappearance and about, about the night that she disappeared. I mean, it's like 20 some years later. Right. And son is asking mom what's highly likely. Yeah, what did, well, what did you tell him? And she tells them what? What? Tells him what she told them. And now he is armed with information. Oh, they're probably going to come and talk to me because I remember telling them something different. And he, he's got some time to sort out. Well, do I try to talk my way out of it or do I just admit, yeah, I told you guys a story, I fed you a story back then and I don't remember why or I don't know why.
- [22:39]
The Captain
Yeah, that's weird to me that, that sticks out to me. Why, why couldn't you remember why you lied?
- [22:45]
Nick
What was it question number four that I went through. They get him to confirm that, right? He says, they say so twice. That's two stories that weren't true that you gave to police after your girlfriend is found murdered. He answers, aha. For which is is, according to the paperwork, is an affirmative response. And then they go on to ask him, so how can anybody not want an explanation for that? So that's why we came to you, to give you a chance to explain that to us. His answer is, look, I don't know what to say to you. I mean, I don't. Question. And then the next morning, you told the Hill family that you got in a bar fight that night. Answer. Huh? Affirmative response. Question. And then your mother. He cuts them off. Answer. I don't necessarily remember that either, but I mean, then the interview's cutting him off, but your mother told. He cuts them off. Answer. This was 20 some years ago. So part of his story to Lorianne Hill's family is that he was in a bar fight sometime that night, which that seems to be news to everybody else as well, Right? Like they weren't armed with that information in 1985. That wasn't part of his story in 1985. So as you hear, as you know from this, this transcript that we went through, Walter Zempic really had no explanation for the inconsistencies. He didn't even really try to explain them. And then after this 2008 interview, he spoke with both his mother and with Sandy, Remember the. The girl that he said he had brought home that night. So when investigators then return to talk to his mother, Carol, all of a sudden she's less certain about her story, according to the investigators. And they say it was clear that she had spoken with Walter Zempic since she had been interviewed by the officer several day before, days before, and that Zempic told her that Sandy was in his bedroom on the night that Lori Hill had been killed. And she also affirmed that Willie Lonsway was the boy who was with Walter Zempic that night. So now she remembers the first name. These detectives, they do track down the Sandy girl. She had never been interviewed, but up to this point, she does tell investigators that she remembers dating Walter Zempic for maybe a month this back in 1985. They did meet at the Southwick Mall in the fall of 1985, but she said she did not go back to his apartment on that first night that they met. And she certainly never remembers sneaking in through a bedroom window. She recalled that their first phone conversation was where he told her that his ex girlfriend had been killed and he said it happened the night that they met and that she was was his alibi. Summer is just around the corner and the folks at Mint Mobile have a hot take. Getting a summer bod is out and getting your savings bod is in. This spring and summer everyone wants skimpy wireless bills and fat wallets. And with premium wireless plans for just 15 bucks a month you can have both without breaking a sweat or the bank. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. I like everyone else used to have the big name wireless service providers but that came with an inflated monthly bill. With Mint Mobile I get that same quality and reliable service with a nice fit and trim monthly bill. This year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium Wireless plans@mintmobile.com TCG that's mintmobile.com TCG upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 per month new customer offer for the first 3 months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees. Extra cement Mobile for details.
- [27:08]
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- [28:16]
The Captain
All right, we are back. Thanks for joining us here in the garage. Cheers to you all and cheers to you Colonel.
- [28:23]
Nick
Cheers to you Captain. So these cold case investigators, they even tracked down some of the other names that they were seeing in their old case file. Some of these people, their names were in the file but they had never been interviewed. And one of those persons was a lady named Linda Ferrasso. She was a family friend of the of the hills. She recalled that on October 26th so this is the day after Laurie is missing. She. Her body's not been found yet. She recalls that Walter Zempic was helping her post flyers looking for the missing girl. And she said that she noticed that he had scratches all over his arm, that she said it looked like he, like, run through a rose garden. And she overheard him telling someone else that he had gotten into a bar fight the night before. After eight months of investigation, in 2008, Walter Zempic was arrested at his home. Fulton county detectives announced the cold case arrest to the media, and they blared it with headlines screaming about the Hill case, Cold case, kidnap, rape, and murder at long last being solved. Walter Zempic was he waived extradition, was transported to Ohio to face these charges. He pled not guilty on both counts, and bond was set at $1 million. So really, a lot of this is going to boil down to trying to reconstruct his actual whereabouts on the night of the murder. And now we have to introduce his defense attorney. He had two defense attorneys. This is a father daughter duo here. Lawyers Greg and Amber Van Gunton. They filed a series of motions, 36 of them, including a motion to dismiss the case, because they argued that their client's defense was prejudiced by the passage of 24 years since the murder because some of the witnesses had died, moved on, forgotten, or just plain vanished, they argued, and the physical evidence had either been used up or stored improperly because it was revealed that the physical evidence was misplaced. So testing that could have the result in the exoneration of their client Walter Zempic would be impossible. Right. There's not this physical evidence still existing today while we're waiting on a court date that there's a chance this could exonerate our client. So, in short, what they're saying is the delay in bringing Walter Sempik and the delay in charging him with this for 20 some years was reasons for why he was. He couldn't put up a great defense. At the motion to dismiss the hearing altogether, his mother, Carol, testified that she received only one phone call the night that Laurie went missing. She said that she did not recall Willie Lon's way being with her son Walter at all that night. This was totally different from what she said in her interview. In 2008. The prosecution filed 39 motions of its own, arguing that the delayed prosecution wasn't just a matter of negligent failure to prosecute back in 1985, but that actual new evidence was discovered. And that new evidence, of course, being all of these Inconsistencies in Zempic statements and his mother with her flip flopping stories that she's now giving to police.
- [32:10]
The Captain
Well, this family is known for flip flopping on their stories.
- [32:13]
Nick
They're a family of flippers and a family of floppers.
- [32:16]
The Captain
Floppers, yeah. You'd think they'd be able to test something to either try to link him to the crime or you know, possibly just go, well, we, we ran the test and we didn't find his DNA, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't the killer.
- [32:32]
Nick
Well, I mean, so they had the test back then. They had the results back then. But, but of course, what those results are they even comparable to something that you would be able to come up with in 2009.
- [32:46]
The Captain
Right.
- [32:46]
Nick
And, and then furthermore, the, whatever physical evidence once, that once existed, nobody can get their hands on it anymore because it was misplaced or destroyed or, or what have you. So you know, people that, that don't do these things, that aren't involved in these things, they don't have a great understanding of how important the chain of custody of physical evidence is in all of these cases. And if you slip up, if there's one misstep on the chain of custody on someone lawfully and correctly storing evidence, then it's all tainted. Right? It's tainted. Whether it was tainted at all, because you can argue that it was tainted. If it's unaccounted for for any time, who's to say what the hell was going on with that physical evidence? And so because they don't have it or it disappeared for a while, it's, it's basically moot. It's, it's no good. It's good for nothing. There was some physical evidence that did suggests that maybe Walter Zempic wasn't the killer. They did have a. Okay, so in 2009, with Walter Zempic facing trial, defense attorney Amber Van Gunton said in interviews with members of the media that there was no evidence against her client. In fact, the evidence exonerated her client, she claimed. She cited the lab report testing a pubic hair found on Lori that did not in ot not match Walter Zic. She told NBC 24, quote, I've never been more convinced in my 10 years of law practice that this man is innocent. He should be released from jail based on the evidence that has finally come forth, end quote. In another interview, she says, this case is absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand why they are still pursuing charges at this time. So remember, they're trying to get this tossed out of court altogether. The, the at, at the first go around, it does get tossed. The judge is like, yeah, there's not a whole lot going on here. There's not a whole lot of evidence. There's nothing really new. This is not a great idea to actually charge this guy and take him to trial. But that would ultimately get overturned by a higher court. And without going through all of those court proceedings that took days and days to sort through, what we, what we end up with is the, the case was going to go to trial in 2012, the state's first witness being Craig Rupp, the guy that was, you know, dating Lori at the time. Remember, he said he never saw her after she left the party that night. He told the jury that he had heard that Lori had been concerned that she was pregnant. And he said that he met Walter Zempic during the search for Laurie Zempik, telling him that Laurie had been about to dump him, dump Craig, and if she was pregnant, that the baby was his. Walter Zempiks.
- [35:52]
The Captain
But with this fight, because this fight that Walter says he got in this bar fight. Do we have any eyewitnesses to this fight?
- [36:01]
Nick
Well, I don't think that it's even a sticking matter because when he's interviewed in 2008, he says he doesn't remember a bar fight.
- [36:12]
The Captain
Right.
- [36:14]
Nick
He may have told one or two people that back in 1985, but now he's, he's admitting that his statements were inconsistent, that he lied to police twice in both of those statements. And then when asked about the bar fight, he's saying, yeah, I don't, I.
- [36:30]
The Captain
Don'T remember saying that.
- [36:31]
Nick
I don't remember that.
- [36:32]
The Captain
Doesn't remember why he lied. Doesn't remember the bar fight statements. Very fascinating.
- [36:38]
Nick
Now, during this trial, we also get some. I, I there. You know, in these true crime stories, Captain, there are certain things that I'm a sucker for and I don't know why this, this part of these stories always intrigues me. Maybe it's that, that if I were ever to be on a jury, you know, I've been called for jury duty at least once that I can recall, but I always think that it's neat when they, when they go out to a scene. So the jury was driven to Swanson to, to, to view the spot where Laurie was last seen and then into that rural area where her body was eventually found. They heard the testimony, obviously, from the men who found her body. They, they heard testimony from first responders and the medical examiner, and they Also heard testimony from Lori's friends and family about the circumstances of her disappearance and death. But. But, okay, so what actual evidence do they have against Walter Zempic at this trial? Right, because you're going to have a.
- [37:48]
The Captain
Evidence.
- [37:49]
Nick
Correct? Right. What we end up with. And you're going to love this. Oh, this is going to get your goat, my friend. We have a jailhouse confession three months. So three months after he's arrested, there's this guy named Steve Moden.
- [38:07]
The Captain
But hold on. When there's no physical evidence and there's no other really hardcore evidence, they always seem to get a confession.
- [38:18]
Nick
Well, because jailhouses are often filled with liars and cheats who probably are willing to make a deal to benefit themselves.
- [38:27]
The Captain
Right.
- [38:27]
Nick
And throw anyone under the bus at any time. That's why I always look at these as like a. With a side. Side eye. Right. Yeah.
- [38:35]
The Captain
And I would. I would find these more credible if the person didn't ask for anything and didn't receive anything. Because you. Sometimes you don't ask for anything. But. But the law, the law enforcement agencies that you're helping out with. This confession will give you something even if you don't ask for it.
- [38:58]
Nick
So here's. Here's the thing that boggles the brain, right? So, like, if. If I'm just some dude, which. Well, well, I actually. But if. If I'm some dude not in a jailhouse, not In a prison, Mr. Joe Citizen, as I am Mr. Civilian, and I call up the police and I say, hey, this guy I know he confessed to murdering somebody. And, or. Or hey, I know you're investigating such and such. And I. This person admitted it to me, told me that he did it. Typically, what is their protocol? They'll mic that guy up. They'll mic me up and try to get that story out of him once again. Or they'll tap my phone and try to get him to tell me the story once again. Right? Why in the hell, in all these jailhouse confessions, there's only one that I can think of where they actually miked up the inmate? And in that scenario, they only miked up the inmate because he was placed there. He was under. Working undercover. Why not mic up this Steve Moden and see if he can get Walter Zempic to repeat what he once told him? They never seem to do that. They just like, oh, you know, wheel his ass into the courtroom and have him testify, and we'll see what. Let the jury sort it out. So he says that he tells police. He tells he mailed a Letter to the prosecutor. His. The prosecutor's name is Scott Hasselman. He mails the prosecutor a letter saying that, look, I'm. I'm a bit of a legal resource to some of these other inmates, a lot of the other persons waiting trial or that they will seek me out for some legal advice. And I ended up talking with Walter Zempic while he was locked up. Before his trial, he admitted to me that he kicked and beat Lori to death because he wanted. Because she wanted to break up with him, and he couldn't handle the rejection. And the Steve Moden guy goes on to say that Walter Zempic allegedly told him that he blacked out in a fog of rage while he was beating her. And that Zempic went on to tell him that he had several people helping him out by lying to cover up his crime, including a friend whose house he had walked to after dumping Lori's body in some brush. So you got this confession, supposed confession. You have a couple people that do testify that he had scratches on his person. You have the inconsistent statements, and then the rest is all like, take it for what you will. Right? Like, was he jealous? How jealous was he? Was she rejecting him? Could he handle the rejection? There's really no physical evidence. In fact, the physical evidence you do have, if. If that has. If that should even play a role in it, I don't know. Right. Because you're going to get the defense that rightfully so, will continually point out that Walter Zempik's DNA was not a match to that hair that was found on Lori. So the only physical evidence is pointing away from the guy that's on trial.
- [42:20]
The Captain
Well, and if you're his defense team, you want to hit that home over and over, hey, we got physical evidence that points to somebody else, not my client.
- [42:31]
Nick
Walter Zempic did not testify at this trial, as you just correctly said here. His attorneys had effectively emphasized that there was zero physical evidence against their client. About 11 hours spread out over three days for the jury to conclude that they could not agree whether Walter Zempic II had. If he was guilty of murder. And so the judge had to declare this a mistrial in the case. The jury was sent home. However, Mr. Zempic. Walter Zempic still remained charged with murder. He was free on bond, but must continue to stay in the state of Ohio on electronic home monitoring. This is. This sucks. All right, look, I know that there's a lot of people out there. The room is probably divided right now. Shout out to the people in the back the room is probably divided on, on who believes this guy might be guilty, who thinks that he, he's getting railroaded here, regardless of the situation. Look, if he's guilty, we really don't care, but we don't know that the, the a big part of this too for him. He's a business owner, he lives in a different state and he's had to remain in Ohio for a very long time, years. But because this was a mistrial, not an acquittal, he was able to be retried. Now, what takes place here behind the scenes, Captain, is the prosecuting the prosecution. They are interviewing. This is like, almost like a debriefing of the, the jury, right? They're, they're interviewing the, the jury, asking them, you know, what certain questions. And it was after talking with the hung jury, they decided that they were not going to further the, the case against him. So they dismissed the prosecution, dismissed the case without prejudice, meaning it could be refiled should additional evidence be found against Zempic. But three years of Walter Zempik's life had been spent as an accused murderer. 18 months of that had been spent in the state of Ohio. However, he was free to return to Tennessee at that time. And he says that he, due to the amount of time he lost his business because of the accusations against him and his time away from the state of Tennessee.
- [45:05]
The Captain
So I'm guessing law enforcement at this point just thought, okay, if we pursue, we don't have enough. It's been some time that has passed, but maybe if some more time passed that we'll be able to build a stronger case against him.
- [45:19]
Nick
Yeah, this is one of those tough ones where you, you can see maybe not just a garage divided like I had mentioned, but maybe a house divided amongst some of the law enforcement officers and even the prosecution of, you know, did. Is this a situation where we have the guy, we know who did it, we just can't prove it in court. Or is it a situation where maybe they got the wrong guy? It's the hair evidence for me that makes this all very shaky. Right. Like if, but what does that hair evidence mean? And I, and I hate to be going down this road because I'm somebody that with the Porch light project, we, we. DNA is the holy grail for us in, in, in our cases. And it's, and it often is, telling us who is responsible for what in this scenario is simply a hair found on her person. We know that her current boyfriend, Craig Rupp, he says they went to this pond to spend some time Together. His words. What, what does that mean? Did they do everything except for have sex at night as he says?
- [46:25]
The Captain
Right.
- [46:25]
Nick
It appears that based off of the evidence that they collected in 1985, that she was either sexually assaulted or did have some kind of sexual. Had sex with somebody that even. But what I'm getting at is I do believe that there's a world where Craig Rupp or somebody else left that hair on her person and Walter Zempic then later killed her. I believe that that's a possibility. I also believe that there's a world where he's completely innocent and lied about where he was that night because he was a dumb 18 year old kid and scared. What we do get is a lot of more drama in this case. So nothing happens publicly after Zempic walked on the case until. Let's go to 2014. We have Rachel Hill, Laurie's older sister and Walter Zempic. Both appear on the Dr. Phil TV show. Now, a lot happened. I'll give you the old colonel summary here. Of course, Rachel Hill was fully in full tilt on Zimpik's guilt. Basically, it was evident that since the arrest of 2009, her rage against him had been festering inside of her. And it was only heightened by them not being able to get a guilty conviction. Rachel told Dr. Phil that when the relationship ran its course and Lori moved on Walt, she refers to him as Walt. Did not accept this quote. He was a stalker, she said. She said Walt gave Lori an ultimatum and then she was killed. Rachel laid out the last hours of Lori's life for Dr. Phil, about her going to the party, arguing with her boyfriend and being seen by neighbors walking alone toward home. Then she went missing. And Walt was a crying mess, huddled in a fetal position. An extreme, an extreme reaction maybe, like maybe he's overreacting on purpose. Maybe he's, he's, he's putting on a show. Rachel told Dr. Phil that when Lori was found, the damage to her sister's head and face was so bad that her father told the girl's mother that Lori had been shot. There was a hole in the center of her forehead. Her right ear had been missing. Been eaten by animals. The Hill family never. She says the Hill family never suspected Walt back then. Rachel said that he was the best man at her wedding. He spent time. He says he spent time at their house after Lori was killed. Stored a car there for a period of time. But she says that she began to Suspect Walt in 1991. That year, I guess Walt had taken her Rachel's babysitter out on a date. And Rachel walked into the room and found Walt attacking the teenage girl, beating her, and in her words, saying, trying to rape her. She says that she chased him off with a shotgun. And that's when the thought came to her, well, maybe he had done the same thing to my sister. She went on to tell Dr. Phil that when police went to serve the warrant on Walt for this incident. So this would be 1991, that he had photos of Lori on his walls and his bedside table. They found her earring, Lori's earring, that she had worn the night she was killed. It was all bent and misshapen. Rachel said that it was misshaped because she had been hit while, you know, the earring was still in her ear. She said that Walt told police that the family gave him this earring as some kind of memento of Lori. She denies this when he says that she told Dr. Phil that, quote, I am 100% positive that Walt is my sister's killer, beyond a shadow of doubt. And then she called Walter a psychopath. Earlier during the week of the Dr. Phil taping for the show, Rachel admitted she had been admitted to a psychiatric hospital because she had threatened to kill both Walter Zempik and his attorney, Amber Van Gunton. I mean, look, this is not a great way to handle your problems. I can maybe reconcile with the idea of going after Walter Zempic, but I don't know that you need to threaten to kill the attorney as well. But clearly, she's not in her right mind. The. She did say she was honest about being admitted to the psychiatric hospital. She did say the hospital they were keeping me safe from hunting Amber and Walt down. Rachel said that she promised her father on his deathbed that she would kill the man who killed Lori. And she was determined to keep that promise.
- [51:29]
The Captain
Yeah, but you have to figure out who it is first.
- [51:32]
Nick
You have to figure out who it is first. And she did say that. That, you know, when she was able to clear her mind, clear her thoughts, she. She changed her mind on wanting to carry out that promise to her father because she was older, she had five granddaughters. She, you know, she had a family. She had many more reasons for staying out of prison than just the one for getting even and getting that eye for an eye that her father wanted it. But this is. I mean, this is a strange and bizarre scenario, right? She's not seen the accused since the trial that he. That he walked away from, and now they were going to be face to face. On set together.
- [52:16]
The Captain
Well, this is a Dr. Phil special. This is what he does.
- [52:20]
Nick
This is what he does.
- [52:22]
The Captain
Yeah, Old Phil, he's gonna put us face to face and have it out one last go around.
- [52:31]
Nick
At some point she's heard she can be overheard asking Dr. Phil if his security guards were present because she, she wanted to make sure that if needed, they would be there to stop her from hurting Walter Zimpic. So Zimp Zempeck said in a pre taped interview, you know, when they pre taped something and then later they air it on the show, he's saying in that pre taped interview that Rachel was fixated on him. He says, I've always been in love with Lori. He maintained that he and Lori had started talking about getting back together and that night she was supposed to leave the boy that she was seeing at the time. He said, in essence, she was at the party. I was at the mall with some friends that night. I got a call from the police around 1:30am asking if I had seen or heard from Lori. I said no. The next day I saw Rachel at her house and helped search for Lori. He denied having any scratches on him of any sort. He said he was crushed when Lori was found dead. He, he did go on to tell the show, hey, look, I passed a polygraph exam back in 1985. My DNA was tested against the DNA on Lori's body. It didn't match. And while he's trying to defend himself and point out reasons why he might be innocent, Rachel starts spouting off, you know, I hate you. I know you killed Lori. Rachel said, man, this is disturbing. Rachel said that Lori, when she was attacked that night and killed, that Lori fought so hard her knuckles were broken. Her argument was that the DNA was so disintegrated there was nothing left that he could not have been cleared by DNA. He did. This is, this is odd because we, we know he had a different stance on this when interviewed in 2008. He, on the show and maybe he was just trying to present himself in a certain light, a bad light. But he did deny lying to the police. He said he did give two conflicting stories about that night. And one, he just, just left out the facts that he was with a girl that night, with the, with the Sandy girl. Now of course Dr. Phil's not going to allow this to stand, right? We, we know his, his mojo. So now he's, you can see him armed with the transcript from the interviews and he's going to confront Walter saying like, like look man, in this interview you admit that you lied, like so don't, don't sit here and tell us that you didn't lie to the police. You, you admit it right? Here we have your words. So Walter gets all kind of shifty during this part. He's, he's, he's kind of denying it again.
- [55:22]
The Captain
Yeah, but you can be a liar and not a murderer.
- [55:24]
Nick
True. And, and, and, and in his defense, he has a different answer for it at this time. He's saying, look, yes, I gave them two different stories. The only difference in my stories is that I left Sandy out in the second story. In, in the second story I gave them, I didn't leave Sandy out. And he, he's saying now to Phil, Dr. Phil, I was young, I was scared, I was nervous when I was talking to the police back in 1985. And of course, Phil's, Dr. Phil's going to point out, look, this, this is, this looks very suspicious. And, and look, I, I don't like Walter in this part, but I can agree with both Dr. Phil and Walter statements when, when he's confronted and, and Dr. Phil pushes him even further, challenges him even more. Why did you give. At this point, Dr. Phil is saying three different alibis. The rebuttal here is that Walter saying, I always said that I was at the mall. And he's, and he goes on to say that the things, the things that remain true to this day, I always said that I was at the mall, number one. And number two, I never said that saw, I always said I never saw Lori on the night that she died. Walter's attorney, Amber then points out on the show to Dr. Phil that she speaks up and she raised a theory that has never been presented before in the case, saying that, that it was a ritualistic killer. She said that two sticks were found on Lori's stomach in the form of an upside down cross. I guess it's so out of left field here, Captain, that, that during the course of the Dr. Phil episode that's not really further explored.
- [57:07]
The Captain
Right. There's similarities to this case and the Delphi case. And, but when you find a victim in, in a wooded area or a field, there are sometimes these killers decide to, well, maybe I can conceal the body and after starting that process, realize there's not enough material around, right? Or the car drives by and then they, they take off.
- [57:38]
Nick
It's like the first time that somebody brought up to me with Delphi, they go, you know, they found a, found some sticks on the girls in the form of a cross or form of something. And I said, yeah, they were in the effing woods. It would be strange if they didn't find some sticks. Like, I mean, come on here, people. So I'm not going to go through the. The 1985 polygraph, but we do have the transcript of that. And. And Dr. Phil did as well. They brought on an expert, a polygraph expert, former FBI special agent who reviewed the 1985 test that Walter passed. And, you know, he passed that test. The expert said this would be a very, very difficult test for him to lie his way through into. Pass. This would be a very. It'd be very difficult to end up with these results, with the way that the test was administered, with the questions that were asked, and for him to be deceptive, but not give off the result that he was being deceptive. So that, I mean, if you're scoring at home, put one in favor of Walter here. But there was a second episode, a second Dr. Phil episode. Dr. Phil made Rachel Hill promise to put some stock in the polygraph results. In other words, he's saying, hey, we're gonna. We're gonna do another episode here, but I want you to try to keep more of an open mind. And on this episode, it was very different. Walter said to Rachel, I feel sorry for you, and I feel sorry for your family. Rachel asked only one question. The. The purpose of this second episode here, Captain, was they were going to administer polygraph examinations of both Rachel and of Walter. This would be Dr. Phil's team doing this. And that's why he's saying, look, you know, we know that. We know that he passed the polygraph in 1985. We're going to give him another one today. We're going to give you one as well, and we want you to try to keep an open mind about the results that may come of this.
- [59:51]
The Captain
So what were the results?
- [59:52]
Nick
Well, this is interesting because part of the questions for Rachel centers around that babysitter incident. Remember where she says, this is the light that went off after I saw him assaulting this teenage babysitter, that I wondered, what did he do? The same thing to my sister years ago.
- [60:10]
The Captain
Right.
- [60:11]
Nick
And the. The examiner said that regarding that babysitter incident, Rachel's statements and answers were truthful. The results were truthful. Now, the flip of that is in regard to Walter Zimbeck killing Laurie, and all the questions that were involved for him in this new updated polygraph gets the same result. He's. He says he didn't kill her, and he. The result is he's not being deceptive.
- [60:45]
The Captain
Right.
- [60:45]
Nick
And in this moment, and I think, look, I mean, sometimes it takes a person to have walked in another person's shoes. And what I mean by that in this, this scenario is Rachel knew all along that this guy passed the 85 polygraph. But doesn't that polygraph mean a whole lot more when you know something to be true and you have to sit down and give your own? And then the results are in and they're saying, yeah, came, came back that you were telling the truth about this incident that this guy didn't want to admit to. In Zempic's test, he's only asked about if he killed Lori. He's only asked if, about questions pertaining to the night that Lori disappeared and about Lori's homicide. It comes back non deceptive. He says he didn't do it, says he wasn't involved. Non deceptive. So in this scenario, Captain, Rachel seemed to immediately accept that the polygraph results were, in fact, accurate. She began crying. She was almost hysterical. She pleaded with Walter, asking him questions as she's crying. Why all the lies? Why all the different stories? He said he didn't even remember saying those things to police. He said he was a kid. She cried, he cried. Walter goes on to say on the show that he loved Rachel's family, that he loved the Hill family, saying, I would, quote, I would do anything for Lori. And then he approached Rachel and they hugged it out, and he says to her, let's go find the person who did this together.
- [62:19]
The Captain
Yeah.
- [62:20]
Nick
Rachel acknowledged that she has. That she has to forgive him and that she has accepted that he didn't do it. But she said she hoped it was him because if it wasn't him who had killed her sister, then it was a monster. And back in 85 and in the moment that her poor sister knew that she was going to die. And it doesn't end there because we fast forward two years later, the case was pretty much Stone Cold. After the charges against Walter Zembeck were dropped. It was Stone Cold up until the Dr. Phil drama and then even after that. Stone Cold, at least as the. As far as the public knows. So years go by, but in 2016, a man was arrested in Fulton county for the murder of another young woman and a crime that seems eerily similar. And this arrest would revive Lori Ann Hill's homicide case, at least in the eyes of the public and especially in her family. The victim in that case was Sierra Jogan. The man the local man arrested for her murder was James Dean Worley. And After Worley's arrest, Rachel Hill spoke with NBC 24. She said that she believed when Zembeck was arrested that he did in fact kill Lori. But now after this new information, she believed that James Worley killed her sister, Laurie. Now, to be perfectly clear here, Captain, this seems to be more of a gut feeling type of thing rather than Rachel having any evidence of Worley's involvement or having killed her sister. This next part Here is from NBC 24 says, quote, Rachel believes it was Worley who killed her sister after she saw him at his first arraignment in Fulton County. She said the evil that oozed out of him and the blood stained hands and the fact that he wrote with his left hand is what convinced her. Rachel said she was told years ago that her sister's killer was left handed. Anyone who has any information about the murder of Lorianne Hill, please contact the Toledo Police Department at 419-245-3142. And if you have any information about James Dean Worley, convicted murderer James Dean Worley, please call the Fulton County Sheriff's office at 419-335-4010.
- [65:05]
The Captain
Foreign thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week. And thanks for sharing these cases on social media. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners?
- [65:26]
Nick
Absolutely, Captain. This week this one was a one that I think is properly handpicked by yours truly because we've been getting a few requests lately for Dayton, Ohio cases. And so this is by a great historic true crime expert that, you know, it's one thing to cover these stories that happened 10, 20 years ago. It's one thing to cover these stories that are new, fresh in the news just a few months ago like we, like we did it a week or so back. All of these cases are unique, but it's incredibly difficult to go way back in time and find a good deal of information and historic facts to piece together a story about an old true crime story. And Sarah Kaushal does it better than most and we've recommended some of her books previously on True Crime Garage. But this week we are recommending a it's called Murder in Victorian Dayton, the tragic story of Bessie Little. The murder of Bessie Little in the trial of her murderer rocked Victorian Dayton. Believing herself pregnant and desperate to save her reputation, young Bessie tried to force her boyfriend to marry her quickly. Instead, he took her out for a buggy ride, shot her twice in the head and dumped her body in the river. When she was discovered, he tried to convince everyone that she had committed suicide. We talked about a dramatic trial this week on True Crime Garage. We talked about the drama on Dr. Phil. There was a dramatic trial in this case as well. So go out and check out this great book, murder and Victorian Dayton, the Tragic Story of Bessie Little. You don't have to write that title down now because you can go to our website, truecrimegarage.com click on the recommendation tab. And we have podcasts, documentaries and other books recommendations there for you.
- [67:30]
The Captain
And until next week, be good, be.
- [67:32]
Nick
Kind, and don't limit.
- [67:46]
Indeed Advertiser
Sam.