Kyle Fleischmann - Missing /// Part 2 /// 783

Summary

True Crime Garage – "Kyle Fleischmann - Missing /// Part 2 /// 783"

Release Date: August 28, 2024
Hosts: Nic & The Captain
Subject: The unsolved 2007 disappearance of Kyle Fleischmann in Charlotte, NC

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Episode Overview

In the conclusion of their deep dive into the 2007 disappearance of Kyle Fleischmann, Nic and the Captain sift through evolving theories, family perspectives, investigator actions, and the ongoing suspicions that swirl around those final mysterious hours. Leveraging details from private investigations, tips, and their own armchair detective skills, the hosts explore the limits of the official investigation—asking whether homicide, misadventure, or a wrong-place-wrong-time twist led to Kyle’s vanishing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Timeline Recap and Known Facts

• Kyle was last confirmed alive at 2:20am on November 9, 2007, seen on surveillance leaving Buckhead Saloon in uptown Charlotte—debit card and jacket left behind ([03:25]).
• Verbal altercation: Kyle was reportedly in a mild argument with 4 men upset over him dancing with a woman. Police interviewed them but they're not considered suspects.
  • "There is a report out there that says that police have interviewed those four people and we don't know the details...but the report is that they've been interviewed and they don't seem to be persons of great interest to law enforcement.” (Nic, [05:33])
• Family and friends believe Kyle was murdered ([06:02]).
• Kyle’s family immediately hired a PI, organized volunteers, and searched with search dogs—critical investigative work shouldered largely by loved ones ([06:35]).

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2. Theories Explored

A. Accidental Death / Exposure

• Initial speculation: Kyle, drunk, jacketless, succumbed to freezing temperatures.
  • Nic: “I really thought that's what we were probably looking at here...couldn't move past the idea that he had left his jacket there.” ([08:24])
• Counterpoint: It wasn’t a rural area; opportunities to find shelter were abundant ([08:55]).

B. Suspicion around Fuel Pizza

• Unclear if Kyle entered, but an employee claims he did.
• Private investigator ran background checks on employees—some had histories of violence ([12:59]).
• One or more Fuel Pizza employees reportedly lived along the same route as the trail traced by search dogs ([14:43]).
  • Captain: “Well, that’s fishy fish sticks.” ([14:56])
• Law enforcement traveled to interview a person connected to Fuel Pizza in prison, indicating suspicions were taken seriously ([16:02]).
  • Nic: “If it cost labor hours and travel expenses...there must have been...enough meat on the bone here.” ([16:14])
• No definitive footage of Kyle inside or leaving Fuel Pizza—just an employee’s word ([17:57]).

C. Distress and Phone Calls

• Kyle placed ~9 calls between 2:19 and 3:29am to friends/family and possibly the bar—indicative of confusion or distress ([18:38], [25:39]).
• Theory: He left the bar, grabbed food, realized missing items, tried to call Buckhead, possibly attempted to return ([25:39]).

D. The Bar: Buckhead Saloon

• Some speculate he may have tried to retrieve his jacket/debit card and encountered trouble upon attempting to re-enter ([25:39]).
• Reports/stories of bouncer violence at the bar circulate, with unconfirmed (Reddit) accounts of bouncers assaulting patrons and denying responsibility to police ([28:34]).
• Captain: "Why don't we have some footage of him going back to the bar? Because I'm assuming he would have went back the same way he came." ([28:34])

E. The Park & Construction Site

• Search dogs traced Kyle’s scent from Fuel Pizza, down 6th Street, North Brevard Street, to a local park, then to a large construction site under development (now EdgeLine Flats) ([35:29], [36:44]).
• Family and private investigator believe he may be buried at the construction site, but property owners refused law enforcement’s search request ([36:44], [37:29]).
  • “If he’s under the building, it may be way too late for any of that anyway.” (Nic, [37:46])
• "Mary," a local resident: Saw suspicious activity (two white men with a red truck, foul odor) at the construction site around 3am ([47:42], [50:14]).

F. Other Sightings & Reports

• Taxi driver reported seeing someone possibly resembling Kyle on North Davidson Street days later but couldn’t confirm and PI doubts it was Kyle ([46:12]).
• Speculation about a possible afterparty at the nearby Holiday Inn; no evidence Kyle attended one, though it was a common practice for uptown partiers ([39:50], [41:00]).

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3. Investigation Criticism & Family Frustration

• Kyle’s family felt police didn’t take early action seriously, leading them to hire their own PI ([06:35]).
  • "His dad says they've not shared a lot of information with us. He's not convinced that they took this thing very seriously for the first couple of weeks." (Nic, [06:53])
• Transition from missing person to homicide investigation was not explained openly by law enforcement ([07:55]).
  • Captain: "It makes no sense to me why law enforcement wouldn't explain that better to the family." ([07:55])
• Concerns about vital information being withheld from the public; question-marks abound ([44:33], [44:43]).

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4. Parallel Cases & Ongoing Impact

• Repeated comparisons to the Brian Shaffer case—another bar disappearance/missing young professional ([37:24]).
• Captain’s rant: Frustration about homelessness and lack of societal safety nets contributing to the dangers faced by people like Kyle ([20:57]).
• Kyle’s family and friends maintained a Facebook group, raised funds, printed flyers, and began searches on their own, earning ongoing respect from the hosts ([39:22], [51:48]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

"If that’s what (the family) believe...that seems to me unfortunate as it is the most likely possibility."
— Nic ([06:10])

"One of the things that the private investigator figured out as well is that one, at least one or more of the individuals that worked at Fuel Pizza lived in the direction of where the dogs took them."
— Nic ([14:43])

"That seems like a little more than a hunch, right? You go knock on a door with a hunch...You have to justify the cost and the hours spent to do so."
— Nic ([16:14])

“You still shouldn’t leave your friend somewhere drunk by himself.”
— Captain ([43:47])

“With a lot of these missing person cases, we have to figure out when was the last time anybody saw him...But not in this case.”
— Captain ([45:29])

"I think it’s somebody...I’m going to be a tough guy. I’m going to be a bully. I’m going to beat this guy up. Here’s an easy victim. I don’t think somebody just saw this random person and just went, that guy. I’m going to kill him."
— Captain ([54:34])

"He is missing person 2456... And we should note that according to NAMUS, they have his dental records as well."
— Nic ([54:50])

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Start of content / Background & Timeline Recap: [03:25]
• Speculation: Bar incident and altercation: [05:33]
• Family reaction and police criticism: [06:53], [07:55]
• Fuel Pizza theory: [11:01] – [17:57]
• Phone calls, distress, and the attempt to return: [18:38], [25:39]
• Bar bouncers and violent rumors: [25:39] – [28:34]
• Canine scent trail & construction site: [35:29], [36:44]
• Resident’s tip about EdgeLine construction site (the “Mary” story): [47:39]
• Final conclusions & gut check: [51:39]
• Outro & resources: [54:50]

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Host Conclusions & Task Force Gut Check ([51:39]–[54:50])

• Captain: Believes some sort of homicide is likely, most probable scenario is Kyle “ran into the wrong person” that night. The exact motive remains unclear given rumors about altercations, the pizza place, and the construction site.
• Nic: Leans toward family’s murder theory, suggests whatever happened likely centered around one of the four focal locations (bar, pizza place, park, construction site). Hints potential for “no body” scenario making charges/arrest elusive.

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Additional Resources & Call to Action

• Kyle’s case is in public databases (NAMUS #2456) and his dental records are on file ([54:50]).
• $50,000 reward still offered; anyone with info should contact Charlotte Crime Stoppers at 704-334-1600.
• Facebook group “Help Find Kyle Fleischmann” remains active. Podcast: "The Vanished" (Marissa Jones) recommended for further detail, interviews with Kyle’s father and the PI ([54:50]).
• Book recommendation: Prescription for Pain by Philip Isle ([57:59]).

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Tone:
Down-to-earth, empathetic, open to speculation but fair-minded, with a consistent focus on the victim and his family.
Memorable Moment:
Hosts’ respect for the family’s dedication and frustration with law enforcement's lack of candor; Captain’s rant about societal failures increasing the risks for vulnerable people on the street.

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In Summary

The hosts circle back to the reality that with so little solid evidence—and with both official and unofficial investigations hampered by lack of cooperation (from businesses, property owners, and perhaps even police)—the disappearance of Kyle Fleischmann remains a haunting, unsolved mystery driven as much by loss as by lingering questions. The trail stops cold, but collective determination to keep his story alive endures in the hope of answers and justice.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Foreign.

[A]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick and sitting directly across from me is a man wearing a liquid blue space top T shirt. A Ladies and germs, here is the Captain.

[B]

That's because I'm one styling and profiling son of a bitch. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[A]

Today we are still chilling with this IPA from Eddie Line called Crank Yanker. This is a very balanced ipa, complex yet easy drinking. We have tropical aromas of mango, orange and pineapple that balance with the malt and the blend of four hops giving a crisp, bitter finish. Crank Anchor Garage Grade four bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our friends that helped us out this week. First up, a big cheers to Skyler Gorski in Denver, Colorado.

[B]

And a big we like your jib goes out to Amanda from Bardstown, Kentucky.

[A]

Next up, here's a cheers to Full Throttle Inc. And Sheboygan Falls, Wisconsin. And last but certainly not least, we have Robin over in Meridian, Idaho. Everyone we just mentioned, they went to truecrimegarage.com and helped us out with this week's beer fund. And for that we thank you very much.

[B]

Yeah, bwr you in Beer Run. Hey, you want to listen to some of our old off the record episodes?

[A]

I do, yeah.

[B]

Or just extra content. And it's all free. So go to YouTube and subscribe to True Crime Garage TV and we'll see you there. That's enough of the business.

[A]

All right, everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Foreign it's been over 16 years gone by since the disappearance of 24 year old Kyle Fleischman. He went missing Friday morning, November 9th. And the last time that we have confirmation that Kyle is alive and well is when he is seen on security camera TV outside of the Buckhead Saloon in uptown Charlotte. He's leaving. He appears to be leaving. This is at 2:20am and we now know that he left his debit card and jacket behind at the bar. As we said in part one, this is when all of the mysterious stuff, everything in question starts to take place right at this 2:20am Mark, one thing we did discuss in part one is this verbal, what I've seen described as a mild verbal altercation between Kyle while he's at the bar and a male or two or possibly three that were not happy with him dancing with a female briefly at the bar. What we do know about those persons, and we said that we believe that it is four people that were all involved in this mild verbal altercation as it's described. We believe it's four people because there is a report out there that says that police have interviewed those four people and we don't know the details of what went on that night between them. We don't know the details of the questions that police asked these individuals. But the report is that they've been interviewed and they don't seem to be persons of great interest to law enforcement regarding Kyle's disappearance. But what I will say here, Captain, is preach. I can't say that they had anything to do with what happened to Kyle. His family says they believe he was murdered. His friends say they believe that he was killed that night, that somebody is responsible for killing him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They know much more about this case than we know. And if that's what they are willing to tell the public, that seems to me unfortunate as it is the most likely possibility. So now we have to, if we're going to go down that road and we're going to believe his family and his friends and his dad, his dad is very vocal about this. He says, look, I wish that the Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department would be more forthcoming with information. To me their response is when we get something new, we do inform the family. So maybe it's as simple as they've not gotten anything new, but his dad says they've not shared a lot of information with us. He's not convinced that they took this thing very seriously for the first couple of weeks. We do know that the family took it seriously right from jump street because they hire a private investigator. They get canine search dogs involved. They have volunteers that are searching for Kyle. Volunteers handing out missing persons flyers right out the gate. A lot of this stuff that the family had to pay for, they paid for a lot of this out of their own pockets. So they jump into action right away. Dad says, tells the media several times. They've not. They've not been very forthcoming. It does appear that there has been a good amount of work behind the scenes on Kyle's case by the police department. But one thing his dad says is at some point, it was homicide investigators that were investigating Kyle's case. So his dad says something made it go from a missing persons investigation to a homicide investigation to a homicide investigation.

[B]

It makes no sense to me why law enforcement wouldn't explain that better to the family.

[A]

Yes, yes. And. And again, I. We. We. We could sit here and spin our tires all day and night on why that has been what it is. We. We just don't know. Like, unfortunately, like the family, we don't know that. Now, for me, I want to go down that road. As for unfortunate as it is, I want to go down that road because, to be honest with you, captain, when I first started looking into this, I'm like, this is one of those weird scenarios where this young man may have just been freezing his ass off. He's drunk, he's tired. Look, it happens. People crawl into a place and decide to take a nap or crawl into a place hoping to get warm and succumb to the elements. I really thought that's what we were probably looking at here. I couldn't. I couldn't move past the idea that he had left his jacket there. And I'm seeing reports that it would have been 30, 32 degrees at that time.

[B]

Yeah. My problem with that theory, though, is it's not a rural area, and so there'd be plenty of places where he could go into.

[A]

Right, Right. There was one place of concern was there was a heavy construction project going on in the. In an area that was in walking distance to where he was last seen. So there's been some concern that, you know, did he. Did he expire there and nobody is responsible for his death, and somehow he got. Got lost in the. Lost in the construction.

[B]

Yeah, it wasn't. Didn't they have cadaver dogs go to that site?

[A]

Yeah. So they had search and rescue Dogs that were brought in, again, they were brought in by the family and they took them to this area. Those dogs also went to a nearby park. What I'm saying to you and everybody else out there in listener land, it was only after hearing the family and friends and then police as well say, we don't think he had any reason to walk away. Reading their words, listening to their words. Dad, uncle, best friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very quickly convinced me if they're all saying murder, that's what it's got to be. So that's where I'm at now with looking at this case. And if, if going down that road, it seems to me like we only have a few, a handful of possibilities that something happened, something directly related to one of these locations has everything to do with his murder. Could be the bar. We know he was there. Could be Fuel Pizza. A lot of people have a lot of speculation and suspicions about fuel Pizza. There was the park that we mentioned with the search and rescue dog.

[B]

Can we dive more into the speculation on the pizza shop? I mean, what. What would the motive be?

[A]

Well, so what is also a little bit fascinating about this case is if you're going to say that it was somebody that he may have had some brief interaction with or a random person that attempted to do something to Kyle and it ends in murder. The interesting part to me is the time frame that we're talking about here, because what do we know that's happening all at the same time? Right around the same time that Kyle is Last seen at 2:20am we know that all of those bars are closing. Yeah, the pizza shop is closing at 2:30. So right at 2:30. What you have then going on in those streets at the time when this kid goes missing is you have the streets are filled with people that were either in those establishments as patrons or were working in those establishments, all leaving and moving about in this area all at the same time between 2:20am and 4:00am when his phone no longer is working or on or what have you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So the speculation with the fuel Pizza, Kyle's family says, look, we. We don't know how much weight the investigators, law enforcement investigators put into looking at this pizza place and the surrounding businesses of that Buckhead saloon. Of course, police investigators are not. May not be of the type to tell them, but we do know that their private investigator says that that's where I would have started. I would have. I would have you canvass the area. You go there and you check with all the surrounding businesses. Well, now you find out that he, he may have gone into this pizza place, he may have ordered some pizza. According to one employee, he did.

[B]

Yeah. And that's backed up because the order seems like something Kyle would have ordered, at least to Kyle's father.

[A]

Correct. Private investigator runs background checks on the individuals that were working there that night, as well as persons that they, he says associates of. But I'm guessing he would have had to have known the associates. And what would be the easiest thing to know them by is anybody that has a long term relationship, be it a roommate, a girlfriend, boyfriend, somebody that is easy to determine from an outsider that this is an associate of this person. So he runs background checks on a lot of these individuals. And what he is seeing is some of them have police records, some of them have. Have violence, a history of violence, weapons charges, assaults, things of that nature. And, and so one piece of speculation regarding Fuel Pizza is did somebody from the pizza shop that night see an opportunity? Kyle's inebriated, maybe he's got some cash on him. He looks, he's looks like a young professional. Did they see an opportunity to, to rob him or take things off of him? I was looking to see, you know, was, was he the type to wear jewelry? It doesn't appear that he was. You know, some people wear expensive watches and what have you.

[B]

To me, if, if somebody said, what does Kyle look like? I'd say, you know, Andy Dwyer from Parks and Rec.

[A]

That's funny. That's. I was thinking Andy Dwyer as well,

[B]

and the thin version of Andy Dwyer, not the chubby, lovable Andy Dwyer.

[A]

One of the things that the private investigator figured out as well is that one, at least one or more of the individuals that worked at Fuel Pizza lived in the direction of where the dogs took them.

[B]

Well, that's fishy fish sticks.

[A]

When the dogs were, we have to guess that they were following Kyle's scent again. They can't talk, so that complicates things.

[B]

Yeah, it always surprises me that the police used knowledge instead of verbal dogs.

[A]

He says that he finds that to be very interesting. And there, there have been individuals that have interviewed some of these people. And don't think that some of these guys are on the up and up. The father, his father said something that I found rather intriguing. Kyle's father, Dick, says, look, a couple of these guys, they're repeat offenders. They have a rap sheet, but after my son goes missing, all of a sudden, they're not such bad guys. They don't, they don't get in trouble for anything. He said that somebody Explained to him that that doesn't seem to fit their pattern of their behavior for their life and their lifestyle. So what great thing changed for them to change who they are or at least how they operate and live their lives?

[B]

Yeah, seems like we're grasping at straws.

[A]

What we do know, too, captain, is this is from law enforcement. Now, we don't know who the individual is, but it looks like at some point, a homicide investigator traveled to talk to somebody that is somehow connected to fuel pizza, that, at the time of the interview, was living in prison and interviewed that individual about Kyle being missing. That seems like, to me, if that detective traveled. Look, these departments, they run on a budget just like every other business out there. They don't have. A lot of these departments do not have money to burn. So if it cost labor hours and travel expenses for this homicide detective, Some reports say two homicide detectives to go to a prison to travel out of the area and go to a prison to interview this person, there must have been. You got to prove to the boss, look, there's. There's enough meat on the bone here that we need to talk to, that we need to sit down and officially interview this individual. You have to justify the cost and the hours spent to do so. There had to be something there. This, to me, that seems like a little more than a hunch, right? You go knock on a door with a hunch, you get permission from the boss to travel and use the department's money to interview somebody. That you can't just go and knock on their door.

[B]

Okay, answer me this. Riddle me this, Batman. We have footage of him in the bar. We have him. We have footage of him heading to the pizza shop. Do we have footage of him inside the pizza shop? And do we have footage of him leaving the pizza shop?

[A]

Well, that's the thing. That we have footage of him walking in the direction of the pizza shop. The problem then becomes we can't 100% put him in the pizza shop other than the person that worked there saying, yeah, I saw Kyle come in that night around this time, right before closing, right? And remember, one of those reports is saying is that is an individual saying, I saw him come in, but I don't recall seeing him leave. So let's go through this. This pizza shop just a little bit more. So what we do know about the pizza shop is that they would have been closing shortly after it's believed that Kyle was there inside the shop.

[B]

Yeah, this is making me hungry.

[A]

We do know that he places approximately nine calls from his cellular phone between 219 when he first attempts to call his sister from the bar to 3:29am now, if we are to believe those experts, those law enforcement people that say, look, this activity on his phone, we think that he's, he might potentially be in a high distress level at this point, then we have to believe that that just that high destroy, that high distress level starts happening at. This would all be shortly after it's believed that he was at the pizza shop. So 2:42am to 3:29am 45, 46, 47 minutes. Where I go with this? If we forced to go down this road of everybody believes that he was

[B]

killed, it's kind of just weird to me that it's a true crime show and you feel like we're being forced to talk about a missing person case, might be a homicide case, then something

[A]

had to happen at one of these key points here. Now there's a park. So this park comes into play because the dogs do go to the park. The private investigator says that it's a possibility. We think he may have gone to the park. We don't know why it was within walking distance, it's not a safe area. But we think that he went into the park and either chose to leave or something happened in the park and then he, he was moved.

[B]

Well, they were saying, because I don't know this area well, but there's a lot of parts in Columbus, Ohio that, well, you got a nice stadium for a baseball team or a soccer club and a couple blocks away is not a great area.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they're saying in this area there's a lot of drugs and a lot of gangs.

[A]

The park is weird too because it's. One report out there is that a homeless person at some point, and I want to be clear by saying that at some point I do not have a date for this. Reported to law enforcement that they had witnessed Kyle being murdered, being killed in the park.

[B]

Yeah. The problem also with all this stuff is these homeless camps or whatever you want to call them, they're a problem because we have individuals that, whether it's mental issues or drug addiction or just down on their luck. Here's another missing person case, the Riley Strand case. Now, they believe that he made it to a homeless park or again, whatever, I don't know what you want to call them, but it just baffles me that we live in an America and we're going to spend millions of dollars on wars, but we can't just take care of some people down on their Luck here and do something about this problem because it's becoming a problem everywhere. And my rant's over and never listened to me because I don't know what I'm talking about.

[A]

If this report is correct, that this information was reported by a homeless individual to law enforcement, what we do know is it was at least years ago. So it doesn't appear that this information led to anything. And remember, we said early in part one that today the reward is up to $50,000. Is it just as simple as some individual came forward pretending to have information that they didn't really have, hoping to catch some of that reward?

[B]

Right. And to me, it seems like if this was a random attack in the park, why wouldn't they just leave him in the park?

[A]

Exactly. That would seem to make the most sense. And then. And the other thing, though, too, circling back to the interview with the individual that was in prison, again, they must have had something there. But let's say they did have something, right? That they had somebody snitching on somebody, or they had what they thought was good information, good enough information to point to who did this and kind of what happened to Kyle that night and who's responsible. And that's why we need to go to this prison and talk to this individual. Either they're the person responsible or they know intimate knowledge of what happened to Kyle that night. Part of me also wonders, like, are we looking at a situation where this is a no body situation? Right? Like, like you said, had he been killed by a perfect stranger in the park. You just leave him there. You leave the victim there. So I have to wonder. There are cases that we know that never make it to trial or never make it to the point of arresting someone simply because they don't have a body. They can't prove that a homicide even took place. We don't even have a large amount of Kyle's blood somewhere.

[B]

So this pizza shop did have a place where people could eat inside. And then I believe they had a patio as well. And I want to say something. I'm not trying to be funny. I know this is going to sound like a funny story, but I went to a subway, this is a. A couple months ago, and it was roughly around closing time. And I went in there. There's nobody in the shop. There's no line. The guy asked me what I want. I start placing my order. I have more than one sub that he has to make. He gets. His level of irritation went from 0 to 10 very quickly. I wasn't like Joking around with him. I was just. He asked me what I wanted, I told him what I wanted. By the time he is rolling up my subs and putting them in the bag, he asks, and I think he asked just by reflex, hey, is there anything else you want? And then he kind of looked at me funny, as if, like, I don't know why I just asked you that, because I don't want to get you anything else. And it was just this very strange interaction where I actually wanted some cookies. If I go to subway, I get my three cookies. I didn't order the cookies because that's how irritated the guy seemed. And it seemed as. Like I said, once I placed my order and then I placed the second order, Every time I'm placing another item to the list, the more annoyed he got to the point. Like I said, and I'm a pretty big dude. I was literally, literally concerned that if I would have ordered something else, that there might be a confrontation. And I know that sounds very strange, but that's how I felt.

[A]

No, I think that plays here. So the reason why I think that plays here is, remember we said in part one that the reports are that Kyle's device called a business that he was at earlier, and we found it to be very strange that they tell us all the other persons and places that he calls, but they leave that one out. Now, there is a report out there of the private investigator hired by the family that. And I don't know if that report is meant to say that the private investigator believes or it is fact that Kyle called the Buckhead Saloon after he had left the Buckhead Saloon. Now, what I can say is the private investigator would know, right? They have the. The call records. So under that part, here's how this theory goes, that Kyle did call the Buckhead Saloon after leaving, which would stand to make some sense seeing how he discovered that he. This would be after. If he stopped at the pizza place. This is after that. So like you pointed out, this is when he's like, oh, realizing I left my debit card. Oh, I probably left my. Oh, I did leave my jacket, too. I'm going to give him a quick call because I'm going to head back there and pick up my stuff. It's around closing time. The reason why your story plays here is there are some people that believe that there's a chance that he made it back to that bar, right? And that something went down. Now, it could he have bumped into some people that he got into an altercation with before that we do know about or some people that he gave a nasty look to before earlier that night that we don't know about along the way? That's a possibility. Could he have showed up at the bar, banged on the door and demanded to come in and get his belongings and they, they turned him away and something happened there? There are people online that have. Have stated that they've been at that bar and something goes down between them and a bouncer or two. And I don't want to get into the details of those because I don't know. I don't know who these people are that are reporting this online and if, if their stories are true. But in its simplest form, the way that these people have reported this is, you know, I, I damn near got knocked unconscious by a bouncer there. And when I called the police, all of a sudden the person that beat me up is no longer there. And the other bouncers are, yeah, we don't know who that was. Right? Turning. Turning it from a situation where here's a person that we know is responsible for assaulting me, but the other bouncers can have his back and say, yeah, that was some random guy that was in here earlier and he took off after he beat up this poor guy.

[B]

And also my problem with this is we have him on footage at the bar, on footage leaving the bar. Why don't we have some footage of him going back to the bar? Because I'm assuming he would have went back the same way he came. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Have you ever avoided a difficult conversation or minimized how you felt or just waited too long to talk to somebody? When life gets heavy, the stigma is real. It's something I'm trying to change. It needs to be commonplace to talk about our mental health. Even in 2026, stigma can get in the way of a lot of things, like getting support for your mental health. Maybe you've encouraged friends to consider therapy while you're avoiding taking the first steps yourself because you're busy, worried about what other people will think, or telling yourself you should handle it alone. But therapy with better help, the world's largest online therapy platform can be a space to slow down and talk through what's been building before it feels unmanageable. Just take a short questionnaire to identify your needs and preferences. And BetterHelp will handle the initial therapist matching work for you. Their industry leading match fulfillment rate means BetterHelp typically gets it right the first time. Feel confident knowing betterhelp therapists work according to strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the us. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with better help. Sign up and get 10 [e-mail] Garage that's better. H E L P.com Garage this show is proudly sponsored by BetterHelp.

[A]

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[B]

All right, we are back. Cheers, mates. Thanks for telling your mother. Colonel you can still dance if you want to.

[A]

And I want to, but not until we get through some of the details here. So we, we do know, remember we talked about the canine scent tracing team being brought in. This was would have been days after his disappearance. So we do have to keep that in mind. The basic report here is that these dogs were deployed. It was two bloodhounds that were deployed at separate times. But what's interesting about these two dogs deployed at different times, Captain, is they both took the same route. So they go to the Fuel pizza, then down 6th street, down North Brevard Street. There's been a lot of discussion about Kyle walking down North David Street. And so the thing is that seems to be confusing part of the story because that's not the route that the dogs took. Now, remember, the private investigator said that the dogs did take them to the park and then back out of the park. So they believe that Kyle at some point may have went in there and then left willingly or unwillingly.

[B]

Well, law enforcement needs to decide whether these dogs, whether they believe what the Information the dogs are giving them is correct.

[A]

But that's the basic route of the dogs. Now, the dogs do take them to this edge line construction site. Now, today, I believe it's a very large apartment building. But this was being constructed at the time. This construction area is important as well, because there are people that believe that he may be buried there. And in one news article, his father says that we believe that he's there. That's where we believe that he is.

[B]

Now, this case is so fascinating to me because there's so many similarities to the Brian Schaefer case.

[A]

The reports are that they have asked if they could search, and the property owners had said, under no circumstances will you be searching our property.

[B]

Well, I don't like that at all.

[A]

If he's under the building, it may be way too late for any of that anyway.

[B]

Yeah, it's fucked up.

[A]

But that's what the dog information is telling us, per the private investigator and per some of the words that his father, Dick Fleischman, has said to some different news outlets. But it doesn't have to mean that something happened by somebody at the. The Fuel Pizza, because his father also says some other interesting things. And I know I'm putting a lot of weight into what is, at the end of the day, pure speculation. But again, his father knows him better than any of us do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And has been privy to certain bits of information that we. We don't have any knowledge of. That would be the investigation uncovered by the private investigator and some of the communications from the police department. And one statement that I found really curious from Dick Fleischman is him saying that I don't think my son knew how late it was. And what he meant by that is that he didn't get up. He. He questions. Did his son get up from the bar and leave because he was hungry to go down and grab a couple slices and come back. That he didn't accidentally leave his debit card in his jacket, that he intended to come back and retrieve them. He just didn't realize it was so close to closing time.

[B]

Which would make some sense because he's also calling people very late at night. But if he thought it was a couple hours earlier, then it's not that late. But you gotta applaud his father and his family.

[A]

I mean, oh, they've pulled out all the stops. They've done everything they possibly could to try to find him. The private investigator, we do know, collected Kyle's jacket and debit card from the bar and did talk with everybody at the Bar. He said that everybody seemed cooperative. I want to give a. Well, I was going to say I want to give a shout out, but I failed to collect this person's name.

[B]

So way to go.

[A]

Let's give a shout.

[B]

A week in a row.

[A]

Fired. Let's give a shout out to the ghostwriter. Okay, so I pulled this off of Reddit. Yes, this individual has a very interesting in depth write up on Kyle's disappearance. And this person says that they spoke. So here straight from their post. I recently spoke to the general manager of the Buckhead Saloon, the general manager during the time of Kyle's disappearance. This poster says that the general manager said that people came by Buckhead Saloon on the day following Kyle's disappearance. He believes that it was Kyle's sister who first came by, but was not certain. Remember I had. I was wondering if we know that Kyle's sister lives in this area or lived in this area at some point. I wondered if she lived in the area when he went missing. So it would make. It would stand to reason that she would be the first one if she's closest in proximity. Yeah, I know that place. I've been there a bunch of times. So upon realizing that Kyle is missing, according to this report, the general manager pulled video footage from the prior evening. In this footage, he remembers seeing Kyle leaving the saloon and dancing on the dance floor earlier that evening. The general manager said he was working that night but had no interaction with Kyle. I asked the general manager what his reaction was when he initially saw the footage of Kyle exiting the saloon. He said he initially noted Kyle was alone, appeared to be intoxicated, and that Kyle seemed confused or as if he was looking for someone. The general manager of the saloon was friends with upper management at the Holiday Inn located at Charlotte City Center. So this is 230 North College Street. This person is saying that the general manager told them that he went down to that Holiday Inn and asked them to pull their video footage as well. Because. And he says that the general manager says that he remembers them as willing to show them their security footage but must not have seen anything on it. So the reason why we're going to this from this poster here, what somebody post on, on Reddit is they're talking about that somebody is speculating. Is there a chance that Kyle may have gone to an after party at the Holiday Inn that is right by the saloon? The people that work there say that it's regular. It's not uncommon for people that even live just out of the metropolitan area to book a Room for the night after partying uptown for the whole night because they don't want to have to drive. They don't have to drink and drive. So there is a lot of speculation here that none of his friends are saying that they were aware of him attempting to go to an after party. But we don't know what transpired 100% after the friends leave. One thing I do find fascinating about this case as well is this is not a case where I have any suspicions of the people that were with him and hanging out that night. His friends.

[B]

Old Clint Flores.

[A]

Because normally we would. Right. Captain would be like, well, what? Are we sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That so and so story is correct. Are we sure that this person is saying everything that they know?

[B]

Yeah. Question. Why the friend won't take a polygraph test. You son of a.

[A]

Talk about the Tyler Davis case. Right. Missing in Columbus. We have a. There's a lot of speculation about his. His wife, his friend.

[B]

Yeah. If she's telling the truth or.

[A]

Or if he's telling people that were with him that night in this situation. When I hear. Me and my wife left and returned to our home, me and my girlfriend left and we returned to our home. And we know that they're not seen on the surveillance footage with him when. When Kyle's leaving, they. That, to me, seems to tell me that those people are out.

[B]

But you still shouldn't leave your friend somewhere drunk by himself.

[A]

And I believe there's a Facebook page for Kyle's case trying to help find information that was set up almost immediately. And this was set up by one of his friends that was there that night with him.

[B]

Well, again, we have the surveillance footage of people leaving.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So if somebody came back, you'd think law enforcement would go, well, that's fishy. Wow. That doesn't make a lot of sense. But again, you just don't know how. It's just such a shame that law enforcement doesn't take these serious right away because most of these people that are reported missing within 24 hours, they're getting calls and getting confirmation that the person's not missing anymore.

[A]

I also wonder if. And if. If and potentially how much information has been held back from the public.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Are there things that I hope. I hope that there are things that the investigators know that we just simply don't know. Because as you can tell, as your earballs are telling you 10, 15 times throughout this, these two podcasts, there's a lot of question marks here. There's a lot that the colonel and the captain Just don't know in this

[B]

case, with dumb idiots, because there's a

[A]

lot of question marks here. Now, to. To add a little more color to what's going on here. That Holiday Inn, while that's just pure speculation, we should point out that it is very nearby Fuel Pizza. So if the camera footage is telling us that he's walking in the direction of Fuel Pizza, it also means that he's walking in the direction of the Holiday Inn.

[B]

Mm. Well, with a lot of these missing person cases, we have to figure out when was the last time that anybody saw him. And so a lot of people just assume, well, it's that night. But not in this case.

[A]

No. Because this one's weird. We get a taxi driver that claims to. We should be clear here on this, because you see some of these reports, and the reports are that the taxi driver claims to have seen Kyle walking down North Davidson street by himself. And this could be. What is unclear to me, Captain, is the report says four days later. Well, does that mean that the taxi driver reported it four days later or that he saw Kyle four days later?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Now, you do a little more digging, and the first thing that you find out right away is regardless of when he spotted Kyle, you quickly realize this taxi driver never says, I saw Kyle Fleischman on North Davidson street walking by himself. He says, I saw someone. That is that look to be like or possibly could have been Kyle Flashman.

[B]

Right. Because we're assuming that this taxi driver doesn't know him personally.

[A]

Correct. And so. And so the taxi driver's statement is, I can't say it was Kyle, but I can't rule out that it wasn't Kyle. The person looked a lot like Kyle. Now, the private investigator adds a little his opinion to this, saying that he thinks it's highly doubtful that it was Kyle. He doesn't doubt that the taxi driver saw someone, just does not believe that it is Kyle. And then we get this strange statement from a resident who lived nearby. Okay, so going by the name of Mary, and she was. This person was interviewed on camera at one point. Not. Not showing her face. They interviewed her. You know how sometimes to keep a person anonymous, you might just get a camera view of them from the waist down or just from. Or from the back.

[B]

Yeah. Or they just show us their butt.

[A]

She was interviewed so you could hear her words and know that it was her talking, but her face was not shown on camera. So this person that they are calling Mary could be her real name. I don't know. I don't Think it was. She's a resident, lives nearby. She reports of suspicious, what she calls suspicious activity at the Edgeline construction site, saying that she lived by the Edgeline Flats construction site. This is the place where some people speculate that Kyle may be buried under. And years back, WBTV Channel 3 interviewed this individual. The key here, Captain, is a couple of bits of information. She submitted a tip to the police department stating that there was a sudden foul odor at the construction site beside her home and that she had witnessed two men and a red truck at this construction site in the middle of the night. This all seems very suspicious. It seems to go along with what the dogs. Some of the information we get from the dogs, it seems to go along with a lot of the speculation from the family and the private investigator where this story takes a bit of a twist, where it seems maybe not everything is on the up and up. Part of the story is Mary says, I got off work at 11pm that night and it was regular for me to go sit on my front porch when it was nice outside. Everybody has a different description of the weather and what is nice and what is not nice. But as we stated earlier, it's reported that it was would have been about 30 degrees, maybe 30 to 2 degrees at the time that Kyle was last seen. I like the cold, but I would. I would wager that most people wouldn't call that nice out that night, you know, that it was a nice night out that night. So I went and sat on the front porch. Anyway. Her statement is she remembers seeing a red truck and two men at the construction site around 3am so this is in that very critical window of time that we're concerned about. She believes that the two men were either younger or middle aged. The men were both Caucasian. She said that the men were talking for a long time, standing behind the truck. She never says to have seen Kyle or somebody that looked to be like Kyle, just that there was this foul odor that came from the construction site and that she saw these two individuals that she cannot identify. And this red truck.

[B]

If I'm law enforcement, I'm first looking at the individuals he had a confrontation with and going, does any of those guys own a red truck? Do anybody they know own a red truck that they could have borrowed the truck? Does anybody that worked at the pizza shop, do they own a red truck? Right. But it's just tough because you'd like to say that the police did all they could in this case, but I don't think they did.

[A]

Well, if they did, they were late to.

[B]

Or if they did, or if they did, they. They not sharing that information with us.

[A]

So she says that this was of note to her. So kudos to his family for spreading the word and conducting searches in this area. Because that's how she becomes aware, right? That's how everybody becomes aware that there, hey, there's a missing adult male that was last seen in this area. And she says that this, her seeing these two guys in the red truck seemed of importance to her to the point of reporting it. Not just because of that foul odor, but more important. But she also says because she had been out on her front porch many nights during the construction process and she never remembers ever seeing anybody out there at that time of night prior to or after. So we said all that. I've been honking for too long here, Captain.

[B]

Honk, honk, honk.

[A]

We've gone round and round with a lot of speculation, as we said at the very start of, of episode one of this case, that everything's in question. Our mystery starts at 2:20am do you have anything to garage task force gut check? Do you have anything that you think. What do you think happened that night?

[B]

I don't know if law enforcement did their due diligence, but at some point they started investigating this as a homicide and not a missing person case. So to me that's pointing us into the direction that Kyle's not coming home. But what happened, I couldn't tell you. And it's hard to dismiss the fact that he had this confrontation. I'd like to know the whereabouts of these individuals. Were they able to track these individuals? And again then we have all these rumors about the pizza shop and then right around the corner is this construction site. And I think when you have so many rumors where there's smoke, there's fire, so some kind of homicide, but I don't think the motive is clear. This is just a difficult case. To me it seems like the most likely thing is that he just ran into the wrong person that night. And they're just somebody that has no fucks to give.

[A]

Well, and I'm right there with you. I think that that's probably what happened. I have to go with what the family is telling us. They are beliefs are that he was killed and his dad is right in saying that. Look, at some point the homicide squad is investigating my son's case. And I think that whatever happened to him, there's a. There is high potential that the person did not intend to kill him. But without having more information and not Being able to locate Kyle, it's too difficult to say, but I feel like unless there's some very random situation where he gets into a taxi cab and it's Captain Psychopath driving the vehicle and all of a sudden he's frightened out of his mind and randomly hitting buttons on his phone or some guys pull him into a car and start moving him. I really think that the, whatever happened to him involves one of the locations that we talked about at length in these two episodes. The bar, the pizza place, the park, or that construction site. It's, there's just too much that keeps taking us back to those different locations.

[B]

Well, I, I agree with you. I think it's somebody. Well, I'm going to be a tough guy. I'm going to be a bully. I'm going to beat this guy up. Here's it, here's an easy victim. I don't think somebody just saw this random person and just went, that guy. I'm going to kill him.

[A]

Kyle is listed on NAMUS. He is missing person 2456. And there is a description of Kyle along with some pictures of him. And we should note that according to namus, they have his dental records as well. There is a Help Find Kyle Fleischman Facebook page with about 5,000 members. I believe this number was significantly higher back in 2007 and eight. This was set up by his good friend. I believe it was his one time roommate Dan that set up the Facebook page and, and runs that page. I do want to give a big shout out to the Vanished podcast. They covered the story in 2021 and there's no shortage of information out there or people that have covered this case. There's a lot of news articles online about Kyle's disappearance and what may have happened to him. There's no shortage of speculation on Reddit. But big shout out to Marissa Jones who does always does gangbusters work on missing persons cases in their stories from the Vanish podcast because she was able to interview Kyle's father, his, his good friend, the private investigator. And there's information that can be gleaned from their words that you don't get from these other news articles that you don't get from a three or four minute news snippet. So kudos to her. And, and if really if you want to learn, if you, if you want to extend visiting this case, that's the place that I would point you. And as said, there's been no shortage of good news articles over the years as well about this case. We truly wish Kyle's family, the very best of luck in this regard and his friends who have helped to keep this story alive and in in front of everybody's faces to remind them that this, this youngster is still missing and that this case isn't closed. We hope that law enforcement can get the right tip that they need. And law enforcement says that if you have information, this is where they would point you. Remember, there's still a $50,000 reward for information regarding the whereabouts of Kyle or what happened to him on that night in 2007. And law enforcement encourages anyone with information to call their Crime Stoppers tip line. So submit that information to 704334 1600.

[B]

I want to thank you so much for listening to the show and thanks for telling a friend. Colonel do we have any recommended reading this week?

[A]

Captain we are recommending Prescription for Pain How a once Promising Doctor Became the Pill Mill Killer by Philip Isle. Prescription for Pain follows a journalist's years long investigation into his father's old classmate. Dr. Paul Volkman was the central figure in a massive pill mill scheme in southern Ohio. His pain clinics accepted only cash, employed armed guards and dispensed opioid painkillers and other controlled substances for years. For nearly three years, Volkman remained in business despite raids by law enforcement. Prosecutors would ultimately link him to the deaths of 13 patients, though investigators explored his ties to at least 20 other deaths. Check out Prescription for Pain by Philip Ail. You can find that recommendation and many more on our recommended [e-mail] and until next week, be good, be kind and don't litter. Sa.