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True Crime Garage
Lane Bryant Murders 2026 /// Part 1
00:58:05
Police have spent millions of dollars trying to catch a man who on Saturday, February 2nd, 2008 walked into a Lane Bryant clothing store and murdered five women in cold blood. We need your help to identify this man and locate him. We first covered this case back in 2018. The public is reminded that the offender remains at-large and should be considered armed and extremely dangerous. A $100,000 reward has been established for information leading to the arrest of the offender. The reward is NOT dependent upon conviction. Any information will be kept confidential. Tip Hotline (708) 444-5394 Email LaneBryant.tipline@tinleypark.org
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- [00:01]
Nick
Special Agent Will Trent, ABC Tonight, you run from the dark. That's why it chases you. Get out of my house. The hit series Will Trent is back. Will, this is a manhunt, not a murder that needs to be solved.
- [00:13]
Captain
And the truth, this man killed my mother and left me to die.
- [00:16]
Nick
He's out. I think if we don't catch this guy, then he's gonna go off the deep end of control. They won't even see you coming. I have to end this.
- [00:25]
Captain
Will Trent's season premiere tonight, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.
- [00:30]
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- [01:40]
Nick
Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick and with me as always, is a man who is wondering why you are hogging the lat pull down machine. Here is the captain.
- [01:53]
Captain
I'm not wondering. I know it's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.
- [02:03]
Nick
This week we are drinking Saturday in the park by North Park Beer Company. Saturday in the park is an Imperial New England Hazy ipa. This is a collaboration brew. North Park Beer Company teamed up with Microphone Brewing to create this fantastic very traditional hazy, very juicy with white peach, passion fruit and juicy oranges. It's delicious. The can art is superb. ABV 8.5% garage grade, four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good friends who helped us fill up the old garage fridge for this week's shows. First up, we have a cheers to mean Gene Jeanette in Gilbertsville, Pennsylvania.
- [02:50]
Captain
And a big we like your jib goes out to Dr. D and Littleton, Colorado.
- [02:55]
Nick
And here's a cheers to our good friends up north. This one going to Cindy in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. And last but certainly not least, here's a cheers to Leanne also in Windsor, Ontario. Everyone we just mentioned went to true crime garage.com and donated to this week's beer fund. And for that we thank you.
- [03:15]
Captain
Yeah, bwr you and beer run. You need more True Crime Garage for your earballs. Let me tell you. Three out of four doctors say yes, you do. And we just released a very interesting off the record last week. So check that out. And you can check all that stuff out atTrue Crime Garage.com and Colonel, that's enough of the business.
- [03:36]
Nick
All right, everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. On February 2, 2008, a man walked into a Lane Bryant clothing store in Tinley Park, Illinois. Posing as a delivery man. He announced a holdup and then began taking women to a back room where they were bound with duct tape. One of the brave ladies managed to call 91 1. The robbery escalated and turned very violent. Before fleeing, he shot all six ladies. Despite police arriving on the scene within minutes of the 911 call, the killer managed to get away. And we still have a lot of questions like was this a robbery gone very bad, or are there bigger motives at play? We first covered this case with True Crime Garage episodes 200 and 201 back in 2018. And this week we are taking a new and fresh look at a case that should be closed out. Police have spent millions of dollars trying to catch this man, but still to this day, they need your help to identify him. The public is reminded that the offender remains at large and should be considered armed and extremely dangerous. A $100,000 reward has been established for information leading to the arrest of the offender. The reward is not dependent upon conviction. Any information will be kept confidential. The tip hotline number is 708-444-5394. You can also email your information to lanebryant.tiplineinleypark.org this is true Crime Garage. Our true crime story this week is from a lovely place called Tinley Park. Tinley park is a village located in Cook County, Illinois. This is a suburb almost an hour south of Chicago. The population as of 2020 is just under 56, 000 people. Now this horrific crime took place back in 2008. Five women killed in one fell swoop. However, this cold blooded murderer had every intention of killing six and maybe even more. Tinley park, not unlike so many other wonderful cities and suburbs, is not a place that typically sees this level of violence and homicides. In fact, just the calendar year before these murders that ended just 33 days before these five women were killed. Tinley Park, Illinois in 2007. No murders and only 15 robberies reported. Now, at the center of this case is going to be a Lane Bryant store in Tinley Park. Lane Bryant, according to the company's website is the most recognized name in plus size ladies clothing. And their emphasis is on fashion and fit. That is what makes them a style leader. This particular Lane Bryant store that we are discussing today, the Tinley Park Lane Bryant was located at the Brookside marketplace which was built in 2005. This is your typical big box clothing store. For the gentlemen out there listening that may be less familiar with Lane Bryant than the fairer gender listeners. Lane Bryant is smaller than a Walmart or Target. It's a Kohl's sized store. Today the company operates approximately 400 stores in 46 U. S states. This particular one, the Tinley Park Lane Bryant was, it's no longer in existence. As many would expect, this one was a 23000 square foot store. Back in 2008 Brookside Marketplace included some storefronts that were not open yet. This making this Lane Bryant store more isolated. The strip mall skirts a major section of Interstate 80, the Belt of America with a Holiday Inn and a sleep in hotels quite nearby. No houses are in the immediate area and there are a few apartment buildings about a half a mile away. All right captain, let's go back to Saturday February 2, 2008 which was a very cold day, the ground was frozen, we got snow everywhere. We have 42 year old Rhoda McFarland, she went to work on this Saturday. She's the store manager of this Lane Bryant. This is going to be a busy day. She's preparing for a busy day as the corporate office mailed out to their customers promoting a big clearance sale. So she's anticipating a lot of activity in her store on that day. What she could not anticipate, what nobody could anticipate was what was about to happen shortly after the business opened for the day. The Lane Bryant store opened its doors for business at 10:00am and the crime unfolded shortly after. At 10:08aman entered the store, engaged a store clerk in conversation, asking and talking about a delivery. He's saying he's a delivery man, he's there about a delivery in his hands, carrying papers. Bogus papers mind you, bogus delivery papers. This man will later be described by Tinley Park PD as a male black, possibly 29 years of age, wearing a dark colored jacket. Now to be very clear, this is the description that goes out over the police radios when the officers are responding to the scene. So as he enters the store, one witness would later say that the man was looking upward and around. And after the crimes, this witness believes that he was looking toward the ceiling for security cameras. Spoiler alert. This store had. Well, I'll count them for you. 00 cameras.
- [10:49]
Captain
That's the highest you've ever counted.
- [10:51]
Nick
Now in our previous coverage, we went deeper into information about the area, the Lane Bryant franchise and the victims. Here we have six victims that were present at the time. And then of course, countless victims beyond the walls of this Lane Bryant due to this act of just completely senseless murder. The man chatted briefly with Rhoda McFarland, the store manager and the surviving witness. Both of these workers, we don't use her real name, the surviving witness, but she is called Martha to protect her identity. So the man spoke to both of these ladies regarding this fake delivery. Rhoda called another store location to see if there was some type of mix up with the delivery. During this time, two customers entered the store. And it is at this time that police say the man then pulled out a gun, announced a hold up. He's now forcing the four women, two employees, two customers that were in the store into the back room, which was a small employee break room where they conducted some of the operations. He forced the women to tape each other's hands and then he bound the remaining women or woman himself. After binding them, he told them to lay face down on the floor. They were bound with duct tape, hands behind their backs. Two more women who later entered the store were also taken to this back room, bound and placed next to the others. It has been stated and reported that the man was robbing the customers, these two customers as they came into the store and as he's taking them to the back. So he's, he's demanding their cash. And some reports even state that he took some of their personal belongings, jewelry and such.
- [12:55]
Captain
Well, like you said, Black man, roughly 6 foot tall, he had a husky build. He has a gun, he has corn, road hair and then he has a braid. One of the braids is like going to the right side of his face with these little light colored, like light green colored beads.
- [13:18]
Nick
The order in which these customers came into the store is unknown. What is known in believed by many, especially her family and police, is that Connie Woolfaulk, she's a fighter, right? By nature. At some point she must have had a physical altercation with the suspect. We know this because she is found with additional injuries. So this woman, Connie, she was known to be very tough and a fighter. She was more banged up compared to the others. She was struck in the face, possibly with the butt of the suspect's gun. She Also had blood under her fingernails which is believed to have come from the suspect after he had six bound in the back of the store. The suspect took clothing from the store. This is several pair of panties and placed these articles over the heads of the women. This was done to blind the victims so that they one could no longer see him or what was going on and attempt to further control them and the situation at hand. At some point the suspect said some degrading comments to one of the women and fondled her. Somehow during all of this chaos, the store manager, Rhoda McFarland managed to call 91 1. This is from the cell phone using Bluetooth technology. At 10:44am she managed to make the call while the gunman was distracted, even though she was bound by tape on the call which is posted on the Tinley Park Police website. Very brave. Rhoda McFarland calls 91 1. You know, I originally reported she is calling to report a robbery in progress. Of course this is true, but truly she is reporting a robbery in progress, a hostage situation. And after more thought, I think she made this call out of pure desperation. I think at this point in the situation, Captain, she can see, she can hear that this guy is becoming more and more agitated, he's becoming more aggressive, he's getting violent. He's becoming more and more unhinged and totally out of control. This is not going as he had planned. And if someone was going to pay for was going to be those women on the floor. The 911 emergency services officer picks up the call. Lane Bryant McFarlane whispers to the dispatcher. Where at? The dispatcher asks Tinley Park. McFarland replies and she adds, Hurry. Now I know you, Captain, like me, we've listened to this call dozens of times. During this call the suspect can be heard in the background kind of shouting at the women.
- [16:24]
Captain
Right.
- [16:25]
Nick
You do hear him some of the words. So we have reports and descriptions by folks smarter than us as to what they think they're hearing him say. But one part that I can clearly hear is he says, I'm losing it.
- [16:44]
Captain
Yeah, like you said, I think she makes the call out of desperation. But if I'm law enforcement and again, what information, what details do we get from the surviving victim? Did she see the killer make contact with the customers? Did she see whatever escalation happened between him and the customers? Because to me there's a calculated plan here because you have a gun, you're trying to control the situation. But to me he has a plan. And I think we have maybe some evidence. I'd like to know what your thoughts are. If one of these individuals, one of the hostages, attacks you, he could have easily just shot her then and there. But I think he didn't do that because he had an ultimate plan. And then he goes and tries to execute that plan afterwards. So, yes, probably getting irritated as things are not going exactly to his plan. But if this guy was just purely crazy or insane, the moment he is attacked, the moment he is resisted, he could just kill one or all of them and not go with a plan.
- [18:06]
Nick
Yes. It's believed that at some point this suspect heard either heard the phone call to 911, heard Ms. McFarland's Bluetooth phone call, or that may have even heard the dispatcher's voice over the phone call. The police are dispatched. A Tinley park police officer was in an adjacent parking lot at the time of the 911 call. It is approximated that he was about 200 yards away. So police obviously arriving on the scene and extremely quickly. And it's reported that the first officer arrived about two minutes after the very, very short 911 call. The surviving witness, Martha, stated that she heard the police sirens before the shooting started.
- [18:56]
Captain
If I'm law enforcement and I hear this account from this witness, we have no knowledge of his plan. So he could have just been going to bound them and tie them up and leave. But that plan could have changed completely once he hears the sirens. And once he hears those sirens, it's okay. And that in that moment I changed my plan. I'm going to leave no witnesses and I'm going to get out of here.
- [19:25]
Nick
So this is all going down at approximately 10:46am and this is when all six women were shot execution style. Rhoda McFarland was the only one that was shot in the forehead, the rest in the back of their heads. The man then walked out the front door and disappeared. And we sit here well over more than a decade later with no clue as to who he is or where he went.
- [19:56]
Captain
Do you have any eyewitnesses once he leaves?
- [19:59]
Nick
We do not. If there are, there's been reports of or no reports of such. Five of these ladies were dead when police arrived. And then one woman thankfully survived. She too had been shot and left for dead. But she tricked the killer by moving her head at the last second and was shot in the neck. She, Martha then played dead until police arrived. A black SUV as well as a black sedan were seen on video leaving the Lane Bryant parking lot at approximately 10:48am so all of this happens within the time span of about 40 minutes from the time he arrives to the time that he thinks everyone's dead and leaves the store and police are en route and then on the scene. So suspect arrives at Lane Bryant store at approximately 10:08am the call to 911 is placed at 10:44, shots are fired at approximately 10:46 and the suspect left the scene at approximately 10:48. The following morning, the Sunday edition of the Chicago Tribune led with the headline five Women Slain in Store. Police hunt Gunmen in shooting at Tinley Park Mall. The article reads in part, A gunman led women into the back of a clothing store Saturday morning, killed them, then he walked out the front door and disappeared. Police say there were no survivors at the Lane Bryant store in a suburban strip mall along Interstate Highway 80 and what they are calling a botched robbery. Sling is changing the way live TV works by putting viewers in charge of their entertainment. Sports, entertainment and news can all be tailored without unnecessary extras. Pay only for the months when TV is actually needed and skip the ones when it's not. I love only paying for stuff when I want it and when I need it. With tv, I'm a big football guy. I absolutely need access to my favorite sports channels during the football season. But I don't even really need a TV when football is out of season. Sling gives me that option. And then once in a while maybe I want to dive in and binge watch something. And it's not during football season. I can sign up for the day pass or maybe the weekend pass for three day viewing. Choose and customize your channel lineup or pause and watch for free. Sling lets you do that. Visit sling.com to learn more.
- [22:57]
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- [24:31]
Nick
Foreign.
- [24:44]
Captain
We are back. Tall cans in the air. Cheers mates.
- [24:48]
Nick
Cheers to you, Captain. This is a case, as we said in the trailer today, that we have covered before and we if you wish to go back and listen to that coverage, know that it's different than what you are hearing today if you've not reviewed those podcasts prior. And this is also one that we've circled back to at least on one, probably several occasions on off the record. Now you heard it there just before our beer break. Much needed beer break, I must add. The paper said that he led all of the women to the back of the store and killed all the women and there were no survivors. Now this is weird the way that it's reported, right? It's very smart and they were probably told to do so, or at least the information they were getting from the police is probably saying simply, unfortunately we have five women that were taken hostage. They were shot and killed. There were no survivors. This is to protect the sole survivor. I mean she's immediately put into protective custody and care.
- [25:57]
Captain
She's right.
- [25:58]
Nick
She had to go to the hospital due to her injuries, which near fatal, I mean inches away from from her being killed. And she now has to be protected her, her and her family. Is this just a sole operator that was determined to rob, maybe even prepared to kill that day and would do it again, would hunt her down, go after her family? Or could this be something larger? Were other people involved? Could this be gang related? So this woman must be protected for a million reasons and some of those reasons are she is going to be your best provider of information about who the killer is. Right.
- [26:46]
Captain
And we don't have eyewitnesses outside of the store, but we do have camera footage of this suv. If that was involved in this crime? Was that SUV been being driven by the killer or was there other individuals involved?
- [27:04]
Nick
We never like to victim blame here. Of course, the franchise itself, Lane Bryant is in some ways a victim as well. But I just. I think it is a huge disservice to your employees to not value their safety and their protection. I think. I say. I will say shame on you, Lane Brown. This is 2008 in a newly developed mall, right? The. This Marketplace mall was built in 2005. We're not dealing with something that was built in the 70s where we're dealing with a newer store. We know that this Lane Bryant, I believe it was open for two years prior to this horrible day. You're putting up a store in 2006. You got people working there in 2008. And it's a nice area, a bad area. Whatever. Put some cameras up there. I. And I know there's somebody out there listening to me going, nick, you're an idiot. That wouldn't have prevented. That may not have prevented these murders. Well, a couple of things. If the witness is correct saying that she believed that the man was looking up, the suspect was looking up, and she thought perhaps after the fact, he was looking to make sure there were no security cameras. Had he been. Had he spotted a camera, who's to say he wouldn't have left? Regardless of that part of the story, what we would have is more information about who this guy is.
- [28:37]
Captain
Well, we probably have footage that was so blurry that we couldn't make out. It's. Well, they were killed by a blob. Because. Put in surveillance cameras and make sure it's of decent quality.
- [28:57]
Nick
And shout out to our longtime sponsor and our friends over at Simply Safe, who do a hell of a job, they got some of the best equipment out there, some of the best monitoring that you will ever find. Hashtag is a sponsor, right? We were having this conversation over some beers with some friends, and I had said, you know, I'm getting some more cameras from Simply Safe. And one of our friends says, you got a camera out front and a camera out back. How many do you need? And I said, you know what? I don't give a GD about somebody breaking into the house. If somebody. If somebody does something to me or my property, I want them caught. Right? I want them caught, and I want them to serve time. And I'll put up 30 cameras if I have to.
- [29:46]
Captain
Well, and also the. Your killer probably came from within, inside the house. Let that set in.
- [29:54]
Nick
So the search, of course, they're going to do a search of the immediate area. This is going to be very intensive with at least eight local police department, law enforcement agency departments on hand, quickly descending on the shopping center in the immediate area. They're checking vehicles, they're going door to door. We have multiple helicopters in the sky, at least one with infrared technology, the whole nine yards. Now, I've seen some footage. This would be a difficult space to conduct such a large scale search, regardless of how many boots on the ground you have. Right. You have cars in the parking lots, you have other stores and yes, there were some empty stores, but you, you have the interstate that is nearby. And they believe that they're, they're looking for someone that they know to be armed and dangerous. Right. Which is going to complicate your search as well because you have women and men conducting the search that may be in fear of their own lives. Yeah, I don't, I don't.
- [31:02]
Captain
Very dangerous. I mean, this guy didn't blink. He tried to execute six women.
- [31:10]
Nick
I don't mean to critique too much, but I saw on several occasions on this footage where they question the driver or passengers in a car. They look, they look through the windows, open up some doors, but I saw a couple cars get out of there and a trunk not being searched. And we don't know how this killer entered, where he came from, how he got to the, the shopping mall, how he got away from the shopping mall. And I keep kind of circling back to that idea because I don't want anybody, I don't. I think it would be irresponsible for all of us to dismiss any possibility of anyone else being involved.
- [31:55]
Captain
Right.
- [31:55]
Nick
There could be a getaway driver, there could have been a lookout, who knows? And we'll get more into that as we continue on.
- [32:02]
Captain
When a case isn't solved, you have to be open to many possibilities.
- [32:07]
Nick
Stay water.
- [32:08]
Captain
Is there somebody else involved? Is there more than one person involved? Did he leave by car? Did he leave by motorcycle? Did he leave by bicycle? Did he leave on foot? We, we don't know that.
- [32:20]
Nick
The victims. We have five killed, one wounded, treated at St. James Hospital in Olympia Fields and then released the following day. The survivor was released the following day on Sunday, February 3rd. The Survivor does not live in the area anymore and has not for a long time. Time, but does stay in constant contact with police whenever she is needed. The victims we have Rhoda McFarland, age 42. As said, she was the manager of the Lane Bryant store. Been there for two years. She was a U.S. air Force veteran, worked as a nurse at Andrews Air Force Base. She also served as a pastor for a Christian center. Rhoda was engaged over the holidays. She had just gotten engaged, Captain, over the holidays of 2007 to a man named Stuart Gibbs. She continued to answer her Christian calling while working at Lane Bryant, often using her employee discount to buy clothes for people who are less fortunate. As said, she's the only victim shot in the forehead. This is believed that the killer caught her on the phone talking to 911, and that is why she was facing the killer when shot. Jenny lynn Bishop was 34 years old of South Bend. She was a customer. She was married to Brian Bishop, and they had three young children. She graduated from Indiana University with a Bachelor of of Science and nursing degree in 1996, and she had been employed at a hospital, and she also worked in the intensive care unit. She had just celebrated her 34th birthday just days prior, and she was at the store that day using a gift card that she received from a friend or loved one for her birthday. Her situation's a little more unique than some of the other victims, being that she was only in the area because her husband was in the area traveling for business, and she decided to go out for the day while he was working. We also have Sarah Safranski. She's the youngest of the victims, just 22 years old. She was a customer that day, unfortunately. She had just graduated in 2007 from Northern Illinois University with a degree in finance, and she had a new job, and she was at that Lane Bryant store that day shopping for work clothes. Connie Woolfolk was the woman who fought back. She was a mortgage lender who lived with her mother and two sons. A single mother now, remember, the housing market in 2007 did a total tank job. So she was riding the storm out. She took a second job stocking shelves overnight at the Super Target. That was in the same Tinley park shopping center that morning. She was treating herself on that Saturday to some shopping at Lane Bryant to buy a new outfit. Her family said when told that, hey, she had more injuries than the others. She's got bruising that the others didn't have. She had been beaten. They said they weren't surprised because they said she would not have gone along with anything without a fight.
- [35:59]
Captain
Well, and law enforcement was able to get DNA and fingerprints, so I'm guessing that they got the killer's DNA through her contact with him is what I'm guessing. Or maybe possibly that was the way.
- [36:15]
Nick
The DNA They've always been a little cagey about that. We don't have 100% confirmation that they have DNA. I believe that they do. And yes, you're absolutely right. If, if they did have, as stated, it's been reported or at least rumored many times over, that blood was found under her fingernails. The most likely of places that it would have come from would be the suspect when she fought back. We have Carrie Chuzo, age 33, of Frankfurt. She was a customer as well. She was a social worker. Her and her husband had been married for just a year and a half before she was killed. Her husband was waiting for her to return home. She was out shopping. He sees the news report on TV and sadly, he saw and observed her car parked in front of the store during this emergency breaking news coverage.
- [37:12]
Captain
I think one of the misconceptions is when you hear overviews of this case and you hear that these two customers come in, I think a lot of people assume that they knew each other or that they were shopping together. And it doesn't seem like they were connected in any way other than just shopping at Lane Bryant at the same time.
- [37:32]
Nick
Exactly. And we have statements from law enforcement stating we don't know what order the customers came in.
- [37:40]
Captain
Well, we know that the store opened up at 10am do we have a good understanding of what time the employees got there and was there staggering end process or was it just we all enter the building at 9 o'? Clock?
- [37:57]
Nick
I believe it's 9 o'. Clock. I don't have any hard and fast evidence of that, but I, if I had to make a wager, I would go with, with roughly nine o' clock as the arrival time for at least the manager to get things opened up.
- [38:14]
Captain
Yeah, but a lot of these retail stores, they don't open with just one employee.
- [38:20]
Nick
No, both, both employees were present when the doors opened at 10am and so.
- [38:25]
Captain
Again, it wouldn't be that hard for anybody to figure out that the store opens at 10. We have this killer coming in eight minutes after opening. To me, this is another piece of evidence of that this is not so random. And actually there was some kind of plan.
- [38:46]
Nick
I have always thought that the intention was to get there very quickly after opening the store so that he could take control of whatever the people inside the store, the store itself. One thing we do know is unless he was just unable to get back to the front door, he didn't lock the door. Whether that was just he didn't have enough time to do so or he didn't want to and that will be a part of our theories that we will discuss later on because unfortunately there's so much left to question in this case. We also have Martha, again, not her real name, was the surviving, the only surviving victim. She was 33 years old. She was just a part time employee at the Lane Bryant store. She was shot along with the rest of the victims, but the bullet went into her neck, missing vital organs. She was enrolled in nursing school and working two jobs at the time. This is a Tinley Park Police Department media release titled Lane Bryant homicide investigation and it reads, the Tinley Park Police Department is continuing its investigation into the murders of five women at the Lane Bryant clothing store which occurred late Saturday morning, February 2, 2008. Tinley Park Police continue to work with the South Suburban Major Crime Task Force, the Will County Coroner's Office office and the Will County State's Attorney as well as several other surrounding agencies in solving this crime. As reported earlier, this incident appears to stem from an armed robbery attempt which may have been interrupted as of this morning. So this comes out February 3rd. The following day the five victims have been positively identified and we've already gone through all of their names and ages. The coroner has also determined that each of the five victims died of gunshot wounds. At this time we are asking that anyone having information regarding this crime or who may have seen anything of a suspicious nature in or around the mall located at 190 at 191st street and Harlem Avenue between 10am and 11am Saturday, February 2nd to call the Tinley Park Police Department. We should note here, Captain, later in these police request for information from the public this time of 10:00am to 11:00am for requests for information would be changed to 9:00am to 11:00am and then eventually they would be saying any time leading up to 11am you were saying that.
- [41:41]
Captain
They had an officer less than 200 yards away. So do we have the exact time of when they arrived at the scene?
- [41:52]
Nick
Yes. All reports state that they were on the scene within two minutes of receiving the 911 call, which we, we know what time that was placed, the the only variance in reporting on that. And keep in mind this is one case where they've been extremely protective of the information that they have and the information that they don't have. Frankly, the only variance in that reporting would be some reports state that it was two minutes after the phone call ended. Some reports state that it's two minutes from the start of the phone call. I don't think that matters either way as the 911 call is extremely short ex. I mean, it's seconds long.
- [42:37]
Captain
Yeah. I think what matters more is like you said, this eyewitness that survives saying, hey, I heard the police sirens before the shooting started.
- [42:47]
Nick
Yeah. And if she heard them, there's every reason to believe that the killer heard them as well. Now, in her shock and in that situation, and I fault her to a zero degree because I think it would be irresponsible to, to think that she's going to get everything 100% correct in a moment where she's hearing people get shot or at least she's hearing. I don't know if she's able to see at this point.
- [43:19]
Captain
Right.
- [43:19]
Nick
But she is hearing gunshots from a very. Coming from a very angry man. And so, I mean, we're talking split second stuff here where it could be sirens go off, boom, boom, boom, or it's boom sirens, boom, boom, boom. You know, it's all happening all at the same time in my mind. What I think when we talk about time line here and as far as our suspect goes and demanding and requesting this information from the public is they keep altering the start time. Hey, we want to know if anybody saw anything from this time to 11am or that time to 11am the constant is 11am they based off of this information, they seem to believe 99% to 100% that this guy, the killer, was gone by 11am leaving the door open for what time he may have came to this area. Right. We know what time he walked into the store. But who say he didn't drive around in these parking lots or walk around or as you said, if he were on foot or on a bicycle, I believe he would have had to have something transport him from this location or just have been really damn good at it. I'm a little surprised he didn't leave through the back door. I mean, if he had already heard sirens, what the. Even if there's an emergency alarm that's going to go off, why go all the way back through the. There must be some reason why he went all the way back through the front door.
- [44:55]
Captain
Yeah. Maybe that's where his vehicle is.
- [44:57]
Nick
Maybe that's where getaway driver.
- [45:00]
Captain
Right. And then also I think these little details matter because is this a sign of. Like I said, I, I believe there's evidence to point to planning. But then how well was it planned? How well was the. The facility cased by this end of the individual?
- [45:21]
Nick
Well, I said it the first time we covered it. If the witness is correct in the thought that he was looking for surveillance cameras once inside of the store. If, if that is correct, that it's. Again, it's a belief. But if it's correct, that tells me he's not been in the store before. Now. He, he may have knowledge of Lane Bryant and the workings of Lane Bryant. He may have knowledge of this general area, of the shopping mall, of the parking lot. He may have experience actually conducting deliveries. But if he were to be looking for cameras, I'm guessing he's not been in the store prior to this. Or if he's been in the store prior to this, there's been some time that has gone by. Right. That, oh, I didn't see any cameras last time I was in here. I better make sure. But that was three months ago. Six months ago. I better make sure that's still the case.
- [46:21]
Captain
Yeah. And then you wonder because he's showing up with a gun. We don't know if he showed up with any other weapons. I believe all the items that they were bound with were found in the store.
- [46:33]
Nick
The tape, it's been reported that the tape. He brought the tape to the store with him as well as the gun.
- [46:41]
Captain
Yeah. Then again, there's some planning. So then you go, well, why wasn't he wearing a mask? So was the plan all along to leave no witnesses?
- [46:50]
Nick
That's a very good question and one that needs to be. We, we may only find that out.
- [46:58]
Captain
If there's an arrest.
- [46:59]
Nick
Yeah, they find this guy, or better yet, where's the tipster? They. We've received a lot of tips in this case. Where's the one that's going to matter and lead to this guy? Somebody knows this guy. I'm convinced of it. Now, part of this press release as well. They go on to say, in addition to the cooperation of the surrounding law enforcement agencies, Lane Bryant executives have been involved in assisting Tinley Park Police Department in this investigation, adding that the Charming Shops Incorporated and Lane Bryant Companies have announced a $50,000 reward for information leading to the arrest, conviction of the person or persons responsible for the murders. I do. Let's get into a little do know and don't know. I do know that this reward was eventually made its way all the way up to $100,000. And I believe all of that coming from Lane Bryant companies. There were some other reward monies involved, but I believe Lane Bryant increased this to $100,000 at some point. What I don't know, Captain, is as we sit here in 20 Fix, is that reward still available? There is a reward available, but there's no current indicator that it's coming from Lane Bryant. The following day we get another Tinley Park Police Department media release. This is an update that states at the time of this incident the suspect was described as follows. And they are smart. They say however right. They got to inform the public, however he may have changed his appearance since the time of the crime. This is the description that they gave. We're talking February 2nd here, two days after the murders. Say male, black, 5 foot 8 inches to 5 foot 10 inches tall. Now, as the captain had said earlier, a lot of the reports out there have the height being 5 foot 10 to 6ft tall these days. So I think we can't dismiss this. I think it'd be foolish to dismiss either. So let's go with 5 foot 8 to 6 foot tall, approximately. He's a stockier guy. This report says 230 to possibly 260 pounds.
- [49:23]
Captain
Yeah.
- [49:24]
Nick
25 to 35 years of age, medium complexion, broad shoulders, clean shaven, wearing black jeans with writing or embroidery on them with some type of rhinestone decorations on the rear pocket. A dark colored jacket that hung below the waist with no writing on it. And a charcoal gray knit cap with hair pulled back, with thick braided hair cornrowed, as the captain had said, with a receding hairline. The suspect is well groomed and known to have one braid laying over the right side of his face at cheek level that had four light green beads on the end of the braid. The braids on his head were pulled straight back.
- [50:11]
Captain
Yeah, I think the height becomes an issue because we don't have that surveillance footage. But we've seen in other cases like Deli where you have footage but you don't have really the proper angles and the proper tools to get a more definitive range of height.
- [50:30]
Nick
The next press release that we're going to get, it starts off very similar to the ones we've already reviewed. So we'll skip over those portions of the press release, but they spend a couple of paragraphs explaining that the information that they have is highly sensitive. It's evidence that needs to be evaluated and they want to ensure the public that any information that is important for them will be released as the investigation progresses. So they're saying we have more information, but it's very sensitive. And it's sensitive not only because it's evidence, but it's sensitive to the integrity of the investigation itself. They're adding our primary objectives will always be to capture this individual and the consideration of our victims.
- [51:27]
Captain
Yeah. You also wonder too what made One of the hostages feel that they could try to call 91 1. Was he singling out another victim? Was there any kind of sexual assault? And maybe they thought as that is taking place, I can try to make this call. So I think there's, there's probably a lot of details that have not been given to the public. And then you just wonder how, how many years with nothing or is law enforcement's thoughts? Well, we have fingerprints and we have DNA. So will just keep waiting till technology catches up.
- [52:11]
Nick
Well, I think they can surmise some of what took place based off of physical evidence that they find at the scene.
- [52:19]
Captain
Right.
- [52:19]
Nick
The other part of it is that you only have one living witness. That's very difficult because as described, she's bound, she's on the floor, her head was covered at one point, may still have been covered for the entirety of the time that she's in the back room. So her level of observance is compromised. Right. At the very least, it's compromised. Now what we do have is a report that has stood the test of time of saying that it is believed. And when I say believed, I got to believe this is coming from the witness. It's believed that and thought that the, the killer, that the suspect was distracted or as you said, like busy doing something else. And this brave woman wrote a, she thought again, probably at a, at a desperation. It's either now or never. I can call 911 because you try to walk in the, the victim shoes.
- [53:24]
Captain
Yeah.
- [53:24]
Nick
If you're in the victim's shoes, think about the listeners. Think about this for a second. You're face down in a back room in a large big box store. You've had a gun pointed at you, maybe even poked with the, the, the barrel of this gun. You've been threatened.
- [53:43]
Captain
You don't know what this individual's intentions are. You don't know if he's going to let you go.
- [53:49]
Nick
I think it would be natural, Captain, for, for you to have a complete change in thought and emotion. Right. I can see this being where I'm lying there at one point going, okay, if I just, if nobody pulls any, this guy's just going to leave.
- [54:10]
Captain
Right.
- [54:10]
Nick
And we're, we're all going to be shook up, but we're going to, we're going to survive. And then at some point this changes. And I think it changed for Rota that she goes, I, I have to call because this guy is losing it. And if, if they don't get here soon or if he does, you're probably Praying that maybe even just the hearing, the sirens come will be a deterrent for this guy and he'll want to just up and leave and get the hell out of there. But unfortunately that is not what happened.
- [54:44]
Captain
Well, again, we don't know what the plan is too, because why is he getting more irritated? Yes, somebody attacks him. So at that moment you could go, well, he should be very irritated. Somebody attacked him, he has a gun. I'm the authority. What the fuck do you think you're doing? But once they're bound, what was causing him to lose control? Was there supposed to be another individual that shows up? Was there not the money he thought there was? What was his motivation here? And again, we don't know what the complete plan was. Was he going to bound these individuals up and take money or whatever and just leave and then he hears the sirens and thinks, oh shit, and then just assassinates everybody. And I've thought about this a lot because we've been doing the show for a long time. And people, you go out to dinner, what do you do? Oh, well, I do a true crime podcast. Oh, well, let me ask you this. And what do you think would deter somebody? But it's. Every situation's different. And so as a victim, you could see somebody coming into a bank or a retail space and you can then maybe assume that their motive is not murder, but their motive is robbery. And you could probably assume the same thing even in a house invasion. Like the only. So it's really hard to give like concrete advice of what I would do or what I would suggest somebody to do because I do think the location of the crime changes what I would do. This is maybe not my advice, but advice I've heard from law enforcement time and time again. If somebody's trying to get you into a vehicle, do everything you can not to get into that freaking vehicle. Like I said, I think the location would change because I think a lot of these individuals actions are all predicated on the location they're in.
- [57:03]
Nick
I think it's very likely this guy was prepared to kill if he had to, but I don't think he planned to kill. And I can't say that with any great degree of certainty. I think that he thought that once he pulled the gun that everybody would just do what he said. They would become his puppets and they would just lie there still on the ground. And I think he kept, that he kept experiencing problems and in issues with that. And I think it kept mounting and mounting. I think he was already probably pretty stressed out before he entered the building and that stress level continued to grow in a very short period of time. And then now you have more people coming in again. We'll get to some of this in the theories part, but it's in this press release that we were just going through the February 6th press release that the public learns for the first time where police say we can now confirm reports that one of the victims was a target of sexual advances by the offender in that she was fondled. These are their exact words. There was no further sexual contact beyond that. And, and they go out of their way to shoot down the idea that the suspect wore a red jacket. That must have been a local rumor at the time.
- [58:28]
Captain
Right?
- [58:28]
Nick
They, they, they say it as this. Secondly, a clear picture of the offender is coming to light. He is now described as having 3 to 5 inch puffy corn rows that go back from the front of his head with one strand of green beads hanging over his right cheek. Is also described as being large framed with weight proportionate to his height. Some reports have erroneously indicated the subject wore a red jacket. That information is incorrect. The suspect wore a black jacket as was indicated in the initial descriptions. I, again, not me, the report I would like to stress this description is what the offender looked like at the time of the crime. On Saturday morning. We continue to investigate a large number of leads in this case. We continue to request the public to call the tip line. At this time, we would like to read a statement written by the surviving victim. Quote. On Saturday, February 2nd, an unspeakable tragedy occurred and five of the bravest women I have ever met were senselessly murdered and taken from their families. My deepest sympathies and condolences go out to their families and friends. Please know that during the unfathomable events of that day, their thoughts were focused on you and coming home. My heart aches that they were unable to do so. And I am working with the authorities in any way possible for all of the victims. I ask that the media please respect all of our families and allow us to grieve and cope privately with the horrific crime that ripped our worlds apart. I also ask that everyone respect that neither I nor my family can discuss the horrible events of that day. I thank everybody who has expressed concern and ask that any person who can assist in the investigation contact the authorities immediately.
- [60:48]
Captain
We want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage. Join us back for the next episode as we return to the scene of the cross crime and we take a deeper dive into the Lane Bryant killings. Join us back here in the garage. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't live.
- [61:42]
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