Longacre Lane /// Intruder /// Part 2

Summary

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True Crime Garage – Longacre Lane /// Intruder /// Part 2

Date: March 12, 2026
Hosts: Nic and the Captain

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Episode Overview

In Part 2 of the chilling Longacre Lane case, Nic and the Captain guide listeners through the harrowing discovery of 21-year-old Johnny Clark and 20-year-old Lisa Straub, who were found murdered while housesitting at Lisa's parents’ home. The episode dissects the dramatic sequence of 911 calls that brought the tragedy to light, the chaotic crime scene, early investigative theories, and the puzzling mixture of evidence left behind. Anchored by personal stories and sharp deductive reasoning, Nic and the Captain craft a meticulously detailed timeline while pondering the intruders’ possible motives and highlighting the community’s desperate search for answers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Timeline of Discovery and 911 Calls

[02:57–10:32]

• Setting the Scene: Johnny and Lisa are house-sitting at Lisa's parents’ home while her parents are out of town. A friend, Tiffany Williams, is concerned after a strange call with Johnny at 10:41pm, where she overhears a disturbance.
• Initial Response: Tiffany drives out to check after failed calls. No response at the door and no answer on cell phones prompt her to alert Johnny’s family.
• Parental Involvement: Johnny’s parents, particularly his mother Maite, call 911 twice. Police respond but do not enter the house due to lack of probable cause.
• Crucial Decision: An officer discreetly tells Johnny’s father, “If this were my son … I would wait for the police to leave and I would bust into the house to see what’s going on.” (Nic, [04:07])
• Family Action: The Clarks, after police leave, look for a vantage point, with a family member peering through an upper kitchen window to see two bodies with bags on their heads, appearing bound.
• Third 911 Call: Maite places a desperate call upon this observation:
  • “You need to get the police out to Long Acre Lane...my son is in the basement tied up...I just saw him.” (Maite relayed by 911 Dispatcher, [10:32])

2. Discovery of the Bodies & Immediate Aftermath

[11:36–17:21]

• Forcible Entry by Family: Johnny’s father kicks down the door and finds both victims bound and unresponsive, bags over their heads.
• Emotional Fallout: Nic describes the trauma:
  • “He says that at some point…he tells his wife what it is that he witnessed. Maybe he says something like Johnny’s gone or Johnny’s dead, to which she then faints.” (Nic, [14:29])
• Scene Description: Victims are found bound with black duct tape, plastic bags on their heads, and their shirts bunched up to their chests—though no sexual assault is indicated.
• EMS Arrival: Life-saving measures are unsuccessful, with both pronounced deceased.

3. Evidence and Crime Scene Details

[21:54–41:09]

• State of the House: The home is extremely ransacked—cabinets, drawers, and closets opened, a mattress thrown, drywall damaged, and items strewn everywhere.
  • “This place looked like you let loose a pack of wolverines inside the house and they tore it all up.” (Nic, [33:26])
• Potential Motive: Theories include robbery (despite valuables/jewelry left behind) and/or personal motives. Rumors about a safe are dispelled by Lisa’s parents.
  • “The Strobs tell us … we do not own a safe. Two, we don’t keep large amounts of cash in our home.” (Nic, [35:20])
• Specific Evidence:
  • Johnny’s empty wallet left on his stomach (suggested by some as “sending a message”).
  • Missing kitchen knives, missing 40–45 dollars left for pizza, absence of black duct tape in the home (indicating it was brought by the killers).
  • Newport cigarette butt found—important as no one in the home smoked and there was a strict no-smoking rule.

4. Forensics & Theories

[41:44–49:20]

• Cause of Death: Both died of asphyxia (lack of oxygen) caused by bags and/or tight duct tape around their necks. Medical examiner could not conclusively determine whether the bag or tape was the primary cause.
  • “To put it short and not sweet at all, they died of lack of oxygen, both of them.” (Nic, [42:16])
• Sequence of Events: Signs indicate Johnny struggled with intruders at the man door. Lisa attempted to run but hid under her bed before being dragged out.
  • “Lisa…attempted to hide underneath her bed. The intruders go up the stairs, kick in her door, and drag her from out under that bed.” (Nic, [44:00])
• Number of Intruders: Estimated at least two, based on controlling two victims and moving Johnny’s body.
  • “It probably…I would wager a Franklin, Captain, it took two to move him. So I think we’re looking for, at minimum, two perpetrators.” (Nic, [21:40])
• Weapon Theories: No evidence of firearm use, but premeditated bringing of duct tape and possibly bags noted.

5. Motives & Staging Theories

[33:26–38:29]

• Was the Ransacking Staged?: While some staged elements exist in other crimes, investigators did not believe this was faked.
  • “Detectives and cops are pretty good at seeing a scene … when somebody’s doing something just to do it, or when somebody’s doing something that they’ve done before…this place looked like you let loose a pack of wolverines.” (Nic, [33:26])
• Rumor of The Safe: Parallels drawn to other notorious crimes where perpetrators acted on false tips about valuables in the home (e.g., the Clutter family in “In Cold Blood,” Cheshire murders).

6. Key Unresolved Questions

[49:14–51:00]

• Did Johnny recognize any of the intruders? The line “bro, what are you doing? Who the hell are you?” is debated—does it imply familiarity, or was it just a startled response?
  • “Law enforcement will have changing and differing opinions at times in this investigation about that matter.” (Nic, [50:52])
• The importance and interpretation of Tiffany Williams’ account—her delayed actions and potential involvement are noted, and she is questioned by both police and Johnny’s family.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Police Limitations:
  “They can’t just bust into a home without probable cause. It’s called the law.”
  – Nic, [05:55]
• Parental Anguish:
  “He says that at some point…he tells his wife what it is that he witnessed. Maybe he says something like Johnny’s gone or Johnny’s dead, to which she then faints.”
  – Nic, [14:29]
• Crime Scene Chaos:
  “You let loose a pack of wolverines inside the house and they tore it all up.”
  – Nic, [33:26]
• On Motive Confusion:
  “It’s confusing. And you’re right to point out it. Was it made to be confusing. Was there staging here?”
  – Nic, [33:22]
• On Number of Perpetrators:
  “I think we’re looking for, at minimum, two perpetrators in this horrific, horrific crime.”
  – Nic, [21:54]
• On Forensic Transfer:
  “The intruder, the killer, the perpetrator will almost always leave something at the crime scene, knowingly or unknowingly, that could lead you back to him or her.”
  – Nic, [35:22]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:57 – Recap of Johnny and Lisa’s final night, friend’s concern, and initial 911 calls.
• 10:32 – Third 911 call after family spots the victims inside the house.
• 15:07 – Bodies found; scene is processed; timeline clarified.
• 21:54 – Detailed rundown of victim positioning and house disarray.
• 23:39 – Significance of the “man door” and suspected entry point.
• 29:21 – Evidence of thorough ransacking, possible search for a safe.
• 33:22 – Motive confusion: staging vs. genuine search.
• 39:46 – Missing items: knives, duct tape, packs, cigarette butt.
• 42:16 – Medical examiner’s report and asphyxia findings.
• 44:00 – Sequence of attack; Lisa’s attempt to hide.
• 49:14 – Police and Tiffany Williams debate over Johnny’s possible recognition of the intruder(s).

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Tone and Closing Thoughts

Nic and the Captain maintain their signature mix of empathy, investigative curiosity, and irreverent banter, grounding the horror of the case in practical deductive reasoning and sharp narrative pacing. The episode is respectful of the victims and insightful about law enforcement processes, all while providing armchair detectives with the intricate details and unresolved tensions that make this case both haunting and compelling.

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Recommended Reading:
Where Do We Go From Here? Chaos or Community? by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
(Rec. at [51:12])

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Next Week:
The investigation continues. Listeners are left with questions swirling around motive, suspects, and the reliability of key witnesses.

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“Be good, be kind, and don’t litter.” – The Captain, [52:11]

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Transcript

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[Nick (Host)]

Welcome to True Crime Garage, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me, as always, is a man who knows that podcasting is a battle that is won in the trenches. Here is the cap.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Podcasting will make your life go into the trenches. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick (Host)]

We are still sipping on some fantastic Midwest IPA by the Great Lakes Brewing Company, one of the OGs of craft brewing. Midwest IPA. It's hoppy, piney, very clean tasting with a hint of citrus ABV 7% garage grade, four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And cheers to our friends for filling up the old garage fridge for us. First up, cheers to Katie from Aurora, Ontario. And last but certainly not least, we have a we like your jib going out to Jamie Gorton from Fort Greg Adams, Virginia. Everyone we mentioned, they went to our website, clicked on the pint glass and helped us out. Thank you all.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Yeah, BWW N Beer Run. Make sure you go to truecrimegarage.com and sign up on our mailing list. And Colonel that's enough of the business.

[Nick (Host)]

All right everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer, let's talk some true crime. When we Left off yesterday Captain, we were talking about a situation where we have 21 year old Johnny Clark and he's staying at his 20 year old girlfriend's home, Lisa Straub. The home technically belongs to Lisa's parents who are away on a vacation. So not only are they staying there, but as everyone states, they're also house sitting while the Straubs are gone. We left off at the point on our timeline Where Johnny's parents have been notified by a woman named Tiffany Williams. Tiffany Williams is 24 years old and she is an air quote quotes friend of Johnny's and Lisa's. And she threw another person alerted Johnny's parents of a couple of situations that occurred that night. One, that she was on the phone with Johnny Clark at about 10:41 that night and that she had heard what sounded to be a disturbance, that Johnny sounded like he was interacting with somebody, didn't know what was going on and it might be a situation. She is then saying that after about two hours, she decides to drive out to the Straub's home and check on her friends Johnny and Lisa. And by getting no response at the door and getting no response on their cell phones, she now has alerted Johnny's family that she's concerned and she thinks that something is wrong. Where we left off yesterday. Johnny's parents are at the location. They're on scene. Police have been called twice. Maite, Johnny's mother, called police 911 twice, and they sent out Lucas County Sheriff's Office on two occasions back to back, Lucas county observes the situation, takes a look at the house. They knock on the door, they shine their flashlights. They see no probable cause and they have no probable cause to enter the home. Nobody presents after receiving those calls can give authority for the authorities to go into the home. Now, one thing that's very interesting here is that before the police leave the scene, the sheriff's office deputies leave the scene for what is now a second time. One of the officers pulls Johnny's father John to the side and says, look, man, not being a cop here, father to father, I can't tell you to do anything. But if this were my son and he was staying at his girlfriend's home and I'm arriving to this scene, I would wait for the police to leave and I would bust into the house to see what's going on. Now the officer is saying this and. And the reason why I think that this is important to note here is some people have said, well, I don't understand why the police wouldn't just go in. They can't just bust into a home without probable cause. It's called the law. Now, the other thing too is they cannot just tell Johnny's parents, yeah, break a window and go in. They. They cannot witness a crime. They cannot encourage a crime to take place. They cannot witness a crime and then do nothing about it. So this guy's saying, man to man, father to father, and here's why I believe that this officer says this when they all arrive on the scene. Here's what we got going on, Captain. Yeah, the Straub's, the parents, Lisa's parents who are gone, they, they own three vehicles. Okay. Two of those vehicles are in the driveway of this home. Nobody's answering the door. Johnny's father John is quite the strong guy. He's a bit of a bodybuilder, good sized man. So when the police are on the scene, he actually physically is able to lift up the garage door just enough that one of the cops gets his head down there, looks in and inside the garage they see the other Straub vehicle along with Lisa Straub's car inside the garage as well. Johnny does not have his own vehicle at this time. So what's weird is the two youngsters, Johnny and Lisa, who are staying there and house sitting, all their means of transportation are there present at the home. There's no vehicles missing from the home. And then you compound that with Tiffany Williams saying earlier at 10:41pm I'm on the phone with Johnny and he's saying, what are you doing, bro? Who are you, bro? As if that there's some kind of commotion at the house. And I'm very thankful that this officer encouraged the Clarks to do something, to take matters into their own hand. So what the Clarks do, they leave when the cops leave, when the sheriff's department leaves, they follow them out of the neighborhood and then the police go one way and the clerks go another way. They drive around for a bit, just long enough to make sure that the sheriff's department is gone from the property. And then they come back. The Clarks just don't bust in, break a window, bust into the house. They have a member of their family that is there, that is a service member in our, in our military serving this great country who says, look, I either I need to leave before you bust into the house because I don't, I can't afford to get into trouble. I have a rank and a job and everything. Let's give us reason to bust into the house. So they're going around and they're looking in the windows. They can't see anything because all of the blinds are closed. Now around the backside of the home, you know those windows, Captain, where you have the, the arc at the top? So it's not your standard rectangle or square window. It is on the bottom, but at the top there's a, there's a glass arc, a window pane. This portion of this window in the back of the home. There's no blinds up there. Often there is not when you have that kind of decorative window, but there are blinds on the lower portion of it. So one cannot see into the home. This is a window that goes to the kitchen. So what they decide, because there's several of the Clark clan there, if you will, they decide to boost one of the lighter individuals up. Remember, John Clark is quite the strong man. He's going to lift up one of the other family members who now can look into the home through that window pane without the blind on top or without any coverings. This person sees two individuals lying on the floor inside with bags on their heads, and they appear to be bound. Now, seeing that, witnessing that will now ignite a new fire. And that is a third 911 call from Johnny's mom, Maite to emergency services.

[911 Dispatcher]

Oh, my God. You need to get the police out to Long Acre Lane. My son is in the basement tied up of his house. I just saw him window I the police out here earlier and did absolutely nothing. Both cell phones are on the ground and we can see the people. Him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement. Okay, all right, we'll get them out there. Get them out here. I told them earlier we need to calm down. We'll get them out there. But yelling at me is unconscious. They're unconscious, ma'. Am. Oh, okay. They said they're unconscious. Yes. Okay.

[Nick (Host)]

All right.

[911 Dispatcher]

With cell phones on their bodies. She only has pants on and the hands are tied. Okay, all right, we'll get them out there, ma'. Am. Oh, my God. Okay, I need you to calm down. We'll get them out there. Okay? Oh, my God. Please hurry. All right, we will. Long Acre Lane. I have the address. We'll get them out there. Goodbye.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Seems so ridiculous that these dispatchers are so concerned about somebody staying calm or not raising their voices at them. But this obviously will give police probable cause to enter the property, which they're

[Nick (Host)]

not going to need. Because what happens here is when you hear Maite on the phone with the dispatcher and you hear that she's kind of, you know, they're tied up, they're unconscious, cell phones on their bodies. He's only got pants on. The pants are tied.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

The reason why she's saying it and delivering it that way to the dispatchers, because she's not seen any of this with her own eyes. Remember, they had to lift a family member or some other person that was there up into the air. Hoist them up to see inside of the home. She is relaying what is being told it. That scene is being described to her. And then she's immediately describing it to emergency services on the phone, right? So that, that will explain her kind of odd delivery because this is news to her as she's telling emergency services. Meanwhile, while she's on the phone trying to get the police back out there and ambulance. Now, John, after he hears what's going on inside the house, he sprints around to the front of the home and with a single kick, damn near kicks down the front door of this house. He runs inside to the kitchen area. Now remember we hear Maite saying that they're in the basement. She doesn't know exactly what room that they're looking into. They've never, the, the Clarks, Johnny's parents have never been inside this home before. And so John, the father runs in, he finds two persons bodies lying in the kitchen and he rips the bag, instinctively and rightfully so, rips the bag off of one of the individuals and unfortunately it is his son who is still unconscious, unresponsive. And then he rips the bag off of what would be clear to him is Lisa's head, right? And gets the same result. And he then says that he, he went to go outside, that he needed to get out of there, he gets out, he goes outside and on his way out or once he's outside, right now things are moving very quickly and the parents are completely in shock. So their statements, it's a little unclear how these things panned out or played out. And it's not really important in my opinion. But what we do know is at some point he, he runs outside and he says he just loses his mind. He doesn't, he doesn't even know what reality is for a while. And he says that at some point, either on his way out of the home or on or once outside of the home, he tells his wife what it is that he witnessed. Maybe he says something like Johnny's gone or Johnny's dead, to which she then faints, right? So that's what takes place shortly like immediately after this 911 call.

[Captain (Co-host)]

And so what we have at this scene is we have, we now know it's Johnny, we know it's Lisa. It seems like they were bound and then their plastic bags were placed over their heads. But do we have anybody seeing, do we see any type of blood or what else are we seeing at the scene?

[Nick (Host)]

Well, we'll go through the evidence and through what they were able to witness at the crime scene. But one thing we need to point out here too is that did we play the second call?

[Captain (Co-host)]

No.

[Nick (Host)]

What was that?

[Captain (Co-host)]

No.

[Nick (Host)]

So after my taste call, Tiffany Williams, who's still at the scene, she then calls and makes a very brief call to 911 and she's stating very much of the same that was just stated by Maite Clark.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

So she has a very brief conversation with the dispatcher and at this point the, the police emergency services are already

[Captain (Co-host)]

en route and it's surprising that Tiffany hasn't left at this point because at some point there's kind of accusations coming her way as far as like why did it take you so long to react to them not answering their phones and then you know, they're at the crime scene. They're at the scene trying to figure out what's going on and then you have Johnny's mom saying hey, are you involved in this? Did you set my son up with something?

[Nick (Host)]

And just so everybody can follow along with our timeline here, the report I have Captain, states that that third and final 911 call from Maite comes in at approximately 3:50am so obviously the whole

[Captain (Co-host)]

family is in a state of shock. It's hysteria. Then law enforcement comes back onto the scene and obviously now they're able to enter the property.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, and we've reviewed a lot of cases where emergency services have told us that if, if they can get to a scene and someone has, for lack of a better term, expired 15, 20, 30 minutes prior to their arrival, that they've, they've witnessed and been a part of situations where they are able to actually save that person's life, bring them back. And I'm including that because it's important to our timeline to narrow down the time of death for our victims here. Now what we have here Captain, is John Gates, as we said, John Gaines entry to the home. He discovers Lisa and John that are they're both bound at the hands and neck with plastic bags over their heads. He instinctively rips the bag off of his son's head to expose his face, but gets no response. John then moves to Lisa and does the same, only to get the same sad outcome. She too is not responding. Deputies from the Lucas County Sheriff's Office respond to the scene yet again, this time along with firemen shortly behind them who will perform life saving efforts. But tragically this is to no avail. The two youngsters have been out for far too long and they are officially gone at this point in our timeline. Sources report that when the bodies were discovered that Johnny's head was facing west with his hands and feet bound with black duct tape. And the same black duct tape was used to seal the bag at his neck. Lisa was found facing east. Her hands were bound behind her back with duct tape with the same similar bag as what was found on Johnny and the same duct tape tightly wrapped around her neck as well. Now, one difference between the two victims here is her legs were not bound. So when you hear in the 911 call from Maite saying he's only wearing pants and the pants are tied, what she's trying to say is that his legs are bound. Like they use the tape to bind up him at the ankles, Right? And so he's wearing sweatpants. So this black duct tape would have been obvious to them even from outside looking from perched above that. That arc pane. Window. Window pane. And Lisa is not bound at the legs. Now, she did say that, you know, he's only wearing pants. Well, they have an obstructed view. And the crime scene. The reason why there's an obstructive view is because they're found in the kitchen. And from their vantage point, some items that will be in the way will be the kitchen table as well as some of the table. The table and chairs. Okay? So what they cannot see is actually both of them are fully clothed. Both of the victims are fully clothed. However, their shirts are bunched up toward the top of their bodies. And so it appeared that he has no shirt on from looking outside, looking in. Now, as said, both their shirts appear to have written up to expose their stomachs. But investigators noted that this did not seem to be in any way or any form of sexual assault or any type of sexual way, but rather because, as it would appear to investigators, both victims were moved after having been bound. So they were dragged, and the victim's shirts then bunched up to their chest.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

As the likely result of someone, or very likely, especially in Johnny's case, someone's dragging the victims across the floor to stage them or place them in the kitchen. And I say some ones because, look, I get it. You're dragging someone, and that. That takes away some of the weight here. But Johnny's 5 foot 11, 205 pounds, so he's not a small boy. It probably. I would. I would wager a Franklin captain. It took two to move him. So I think we're looking for, at minimum, two perpetrators in this horrific, horrific crime.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Brian, like you said, we don't have evidence of sexual assault, but do we. We were told earlier that the house looked like it was ransacked. Do we have evidence that the motive. The motive might. Might have been burglary here?

[Nick (Host)]

You're spot on here, Captain, because still to this day, this. This horrible crime takes place very early. 2011. We're sitting here in the garage, 2023, and it's unclear to this day what exactly the motive was. Now, as we get through this, I think that our listeners will see and maybe share the same opinion that we have that there might be more than one motive at play here now, especially if we are to consider that we may have more than one perpetrator. So some more details from the crime scene. An empty wallet is placed on Johnny's bare stomach. This would turn out to be his wallet. Some have suggested that the wallet left in this manner by the killer was as if to send a message. Both victims displayed signs of petechia on their faces. It was very clear to Lucas County Sheriff's investigators that a struggle had taken place. Now listen to this level of damage inside here, Captain. Level of damage inside the Straub home. Per the police reports, there was broken drywall, a clock torn off the wall, a plant knocked over, and then there were many, many. To say many items were scattered about is to put it very conservatively.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

It also became increasingly clear to authorities that the garage was the most likely. Must have been the point of access for the intruder or intruders to get inside of the home. And here's why. There was damage to the interior service door, or as longtime listeners of this show. No, that I like to call it the man door. Meaning this is the door that the people walk through, not the door that the cars go through.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

So there. There's signs of forcible entry into the home. And they're getting that from the man door from garage to the inside of the home. They're not getting that from the garage door. The garage was closed when police first arrived on the scene. The garage was closed when Johnny's family's on the scene. Remember, dad had to lift up the garage door, the car door, so that the deputy could look inside and see that there were two more cars inside the garage. So this is indicative that whoever decided to bust into the home or intrude into the home, the garage door was either open for them to receive them or was already open when they approached the home. They only had to bust into the man door. And they were so kind enough to close the garage door before leaving the property.

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[Nick (Host)]

All right.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Cheers mates. Cheers to you, Colonel. Onward and upward.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah. Thank you, Captain. Now, this is very likely protocol for a double homicide in most jurisdictions in the state of Ohio. I'm not certain about this jurisdiction in particular. So this is either protocol or simply the investigators realizing that they need additional expertise for this case and this crime scene that appears to have a lot going on. Lucas County Sheriff's Office detectives, they rather quickly contact the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation, or BCI for short, for their assistance in this case. So now we have BCI there to assist in processing this crime scene as observed by the Lucas County Sheriff's Office when BCI had arrived. We get Special Agent Supervisor Ed Beardstad who notices that the crime scene does not only show signs of Force or forcible entry, signs of obvious struggle. But now this officer is saying we need to include that this house appears to have been ransacked. And I mean, let's say very ransacked, because I've seen the pictures. Very ransacked. If we were to try to discuss levels of ransacking.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Yeah, we'll try to post as many photos about this case and the people involved, obviously. And those are. You can always find those on our social media.

[Nick (Host)]

So we have to put it short and sweet. We have cabinets that have been open, drawers pulled out as if. As if someone's searching for something. Now, in the master bedroom, the mattress was pulled completely off of the box spring as if to reveal anything potentially hidden under the mattress. In the walk in closet, we have clothing that is, you know, torn from the hangers and thrown all over the floor.

[Captain (Co-host)]

But question for you, because sometimes when we have a house that quote, unquote looks ransacked, is it staged to look that way to throw law enforcement off of what the possible motive of this crime would be?

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah. And we have a dresser that's overturned, a panel leading to the attic spaces is open.

[911 Dispatcher]

And.

[Nick (Host)]

And as said, there's damage to the drywall, significant damage in areas of the home to the drywall. And this is one could be both. Clear sign of struggle. Usually it is, but we usually cover cases where there's not this level of ransacking going on inside the home. And so I want to point out something here too, that the destruction to some of the drywall could be happenstance from a struggle. Look, Johnny was a tough kid. If with, with these intruders, he's not going to just allow them to just walk into the home, he's going to put up a fight. So there's our struggle. But on top of that, with all this ransacking, keep in mind some of this damage to the drywall may be part more part of the ransacking than just that struggle.

[Captain (Co-host)]

It also makes you wonder because like you said, we have two victims. So do we have two perpetrators or do we have even more than two?

[Nick (Host)]

We also find out that Lisa's purse had been emptied and Johnny's wallet was empty as well. Strangely, however, there was jewelry that was in plain sight. And some have stated that this was overlooked. But I don't think that it was overlooked because one description we get is that a jewelry box was opened to expose the jewelry, and for whatever reason, they decided not to take anything that they saw there. We also end up learning that something that was in the home prior to the homicides and remained there afterward was six envelopes containing foreign currency. Right. So whoever is responsible, they take Lisa's money, Johnny's money, if he had any. But they pass up the jewelry, they pass up other valuables inside the home, TVs, computers, things of that nature, and they pass up the foreign currency as well.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Were they able to talk to Lisa's parents? And was there any idea of maybe a special item that these individuals might have known that they had, that they were looking for? Because also, like, you can't discount a robbery if there are things missing. But like, for example, you see foreign currency, a criminal might go, what am I going to do with that? I'm going to have to try to find a way to exchange that into our currency. Or they see jewelry. What am I going to do with that?

[Nick (Host)]

Right.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Where's the value there for me?

[Nick (Host)]

Right. And. And look, you can sell those items, but now, involving another person, you're putting yourself at a higher risk level of getting caught, getting apprehended. And so when I see a scene

[Captain (Co-host)]

like this, it's confusing, though, right?

[Nick (Host)]

It's. It's confusing. And you're right to point out it. Was it made to be confusing. Was there staging here? You know, it's not uncommon. Husband kills wife or wife kills husband out in their home, and they ransack the place or. Or make it look to be ransacked. Now, what's. What's interesting, though, is detectives and cops are pretty good at seeing a scene and knowing when somebody is doing something just to do it, or when somebody's doing something that they've done before. You know, they can look at a scene at times and go, you know what this looks like? Whoever was air quotes ransacking the house didn't really know what they were doing. Almost like they were doing it purposely to confuse the scene. Right. That doesn't seem to be the case here. We never get any investigators saying, like, we think that this was a staged scene. This place looked like you. You let loose a pack of wolverines inside the house and they tore it all up.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Yeah, but also because of things that you mentioned, like the mattress being turned over, or I think you were saying the attic entrance. To me, that goes, again, was there something that these people thought was at this property that they were trying to find? And wouldn't we know this information from Lisa's parents?

[Nick (Host)]

Every closet that had a door in that home, the door was found open, as if somebody went through the home, looking in every nook and cranny for something. And this is where things start to get really weird, because the first people that you're going to talk to are family and friends of the two victims. And one thing that they start to find within some of those circles is this thought or some kind of rumor that there was potentially a safe in the home containing large amounts of cash. Right now we have the Straubs who thankfully can tell us a couple things. And, Captain, you know it. What's one of my favorite things to discuss in these cases? Because it is often, most times, the most important detail of these crime scenes. Transference of evidence. The intruder, the killer, the perpetrator will almost always leave something at the crime scene, knowingly or unknowingly that could lead you back to him or her, and almost always will take something with them knowingly or unknowingly that you can link perpetrator to crime. So in this situation, the strobs tell us a couple things. One, we do not own a safe. Two, we don't keep large amounts of cash in our home. In fact, they tell the police the only money that would have been in the home, aside from some change jars, would have been $40 or $45 that they left for Johnny and Lisa to order pizza one night or two nights. That's the only money that they said that they had in the home. Now, transfers of evidence goes the other way, too. So what do we have missing from the scene? We have that 40, $45 if. If Johnny and Lisa didn't spend it prior.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

We have Lisa's money. Okay. Keep in mind, what did she work that night? We know she worked as a server at the restaurant that night. Usually, they walk away cash in hand. And so we can assume, we can make the logical assumption that whatever money she took home with her from her work that night was taken. And then we know Johnny's wallet was found empty. So whatever money he may have had that was gone, that was gone as well.

[Captain (Co-host)]

But there's a possibility, if that if law enforcement is saying, hey, it looks like these guys were looking for possibly a safe, that it's possible that they're at the wrong residence.

[Nick (Host)]

Oh, it's most certainly possible. I mean, when I hear this thought that there's a safe in the home, and it could be a huge mistake, you know, you instantly think of in cold blood. Who was that? The Clutter family that's killed. Because these two criminals, while they're in prison, they hear this bad rumor that. That the family had a safe with $10,000 cash in it. Decades and decades ago, when $10,000 was a whole heck of a lot of money, much more than it is today. And they go in, they kill the whole family. No safe.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

We covered the Cheshire murders. Now, those two horrible monsters, sub humans, they claim that they believe because it was a rich, wealthy neighborhood, that they were. They believed that they would find a lot of money inside the home and that maybe even a safe and a lot of valuables. They don't find that people don't live that way today. Most people walk around with cards. Right. Plastic. And I said it, and I made my point very clear on the Cheshire murders when we covered. I believe that Carmen Sajevsky and those perpetrators, I think that that, that rape and murder was as much, if not more of a driving factor to them than the potential of finding large sums of money.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Well, no. And also, sometimes people are house poor, you know, where they. They have a big house and all their finances go to paying for that house. They don't have extras, unfortunately.

[Nick (Host)]

I'm garage poor.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Me too, but your garage is a little bigger than mine.

[Nick (Host)]

We got a couple of other things going on at the scene, though, Captain, that we need to get to. We have two knives that are missing from the. The block. That would be in the kitchen.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

And we know that duct tape was found on our victims. Lisa's parents tell police we didn't have any black duct tape in our home. And so now we know that the killers did bring something with them. Right. And beyond the money, just the cash, they took something with them as well. Now, the bags, a little more difficult. I think these are pretty common bags. And I believe that the Straub said that they were of the belief that the bags would have been found in either in the garage or somewhere in their home. So now we got to deal with this duct tape. And that's really interesting here. So what we have. Let's talk about these items. Did not have any duct tape present at the home, according to the Strops. So it must have been brought with them to the scene. And now some have said that this may imply premeditation. Yes, of course.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host)]

But premeditation of what? Murder, robbery, torture? I think it's too early in our investigation to conclude. Premeditation of what? Now, one of the investigators collects a Newport cigarette butt found in the hallway by the door to the garage. That. The man door leading to the garage.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Nobody in the family is a smoker.

[Nick (Host)]

Nobody in the family is a smoker. And then on top of that. Yeah, according To Tiffany Williams. They were going to come over and hang out at the house and, you know, not really a party, according to Tiffany Williams. Four people just hanging out at the house. There weren't. The Straub's had a strict rule against that, but they also had a strict rule against smoking in the home. Nobody was permitted to smoke in the home. And as we just covered, there's no smoker that lives there. So this Newport cigarette butt is going to become just as important as the duct tape that was found on our victims.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Well, because like you said, there's so much ransacking that you have to. Now you're going to be testing for fingerprints and you're going to be testing for DNA. But some evidence that we're going to have to go through, you know, as far as law enforcement is going to have to go through at the scene, is what happened to these two victims. We know that they were bound and we know that there was bags placed on their head. We know they're dead, but how did they die?

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah. So the petechia is going to be one of the telltale signs of what may have happened to them. And I say may have happened to them because once we get the medical examiner's report, it's a little inconclusive. So it's both deaths ruled a homicide. No doubt about that. What becomes a problem, and not a major one, but something that is undetermined, is that they could not tell if they died from asphyxia from the bag being placed over their heads or from the tightness of the duct tape around their necks. So maybe it may have been a combination of both. To put it short and not sweet at all, they died of lack of oxygen, both of them. And one thing that is unique about this case, and I think it's usually important, not always, but I think here, given the crime scene and what we're seeing at the crime scene and some things that we've hinted on already here, Captain, you. Is there was some concern to try to determine who died first, and they were not able to conclusively figure that part out. Now, what the crimes. Here's what the crime scene is telling the experts, that some kind of struggle with Johnny went down either outside, just inside of or at that man door. Right. The service door leading from the garage to the home. So signs of a struggle there. And they. They believe that struggle took place between Johnny and the intruders. That's how the intruders gained entry into the home. Now, unfortunately not. Look, none of these cases are easy to talk About. None of the details are easy to talk about, but what the crime scene indicators are telling the investigators is that when this is happening, when the commotion is heard by Lisa, she tries to run and hide. So she runs upstairs to the upper level to her room, closes and locks the door behind her. And it's believed that she attempted to hide underneath her bed. The intruders go up the stairs, kick in her door, and drag her from out underneath of that bed. Unfortunately, a couple of things could have happened differently that. That may have saved at least Lisa had she fled out a. Another exterior door rather than flee to her. Her room.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host)]

There was a fire escape upstairs that she could have potentially gone out of. And her cell phone, unfortunately was found, was believed to be in another part of the home. So she flees up to her room with no chance of calling anybody for help while she's in there. Now, look, we.

[Captain (Co-host)]

This case sucks.

[Nick (Host)]

I don't mean to scare anybody, but we do get these false senses of security, right? Like we close our bedroom doors at night because we're told as children that if there were to be a fire that you can. You can check the. Touch the doorknob and see if it's hot. It will prevent smoke from coming, large amounts of smoke from coming into your room. Lock the. Lock the door so that you have one more barrier between you and an intruder into your home. Those doors, those bed, our bedroom doors, they're not strong. Rarely are they even solid doors. They're usually hollow doors.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Speak for yourself.

[Nick (Host)]

Mine are solid doors in most cases, Captain. They are hollow doors that are easily easy to kick in.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Number one, cardboard.

[Nick (Host)]

Exactly. Or, I mean, I've seen. I've seen people punch right through them. Forget about kicking through one or using your body to throw into the door. She did. She went into flight mode. She's 20 years old, man. She's a little kid. She's a kid. She. She did what a kid would do. You see, you see something that you don't understand that scares the hell out of you, and. And she attempted to run and hide from it.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Yeah. If I'm law enforcement, the call that the friend hears Johnny say, bro, what are you doing to me? That points to one individual, but again, we don't know did he see one individual and then the next individual made themselves known after the disconnection of that call. But because there's two victims, and like you said, I mean, Johnny's not a small guy, you have to move that individual. The amount of ransacking in the house, this again, it Points to at least two. I don't think if you're law enforcement, you can rule out the possibility that there's even more than that because you have to then bound these individuals. And that would be very difficult. And we don't have any evidence if the intruder had a gun or not. So again, sometimes you can control multiple victims by yourself if you use a gun or you use a weapon or there's some other threat. But in this case, it just seems like it's brute force is what was used to control these.

[Nick (Host)]

And you're, you're exactly right that you don't have any proof that the intruder, intruders did not have a firearm. But what you do have is you have proof. You have things suggestive at the crime scene that they did not, right. They, they did not use a firearm to kill the victims. There's no bullets that are found. There's no bullet holes that are found. There's no loud gunshots that are heard by anybody in the neighborh. And then you have these clear and obvious signs of a struggle, one at that man door, which is Johnny fighting off whoever's coming in. And also somebody busting through Lisa's bedroom door and dragging her down the stairs. And so though those struggles are indicative that one, you're not able to control them with the firearm. You have to use, as you said, brute force. And then on top of that, the premeditation, right, we don't know what it is premeditative of, but binding the knowledge of going, of knowing in advance, you know, we should probably bring some duct tape with us because we're probably going to have to bind one or two of these individuals at some point.

[Captain (Co-host)]

Well, I bet, and I would bet money that they, if they brought the duct tape, that they brought the bags with them as well.

[Nick (Host)]

One thing that, that's. I think that's fair to say that. But keep in mind, we have the Straub saying they believe the, the bags came from somewhere in the home and they would know better than us. But here's the thing, Captain. One thing that is going on immediately, early on in this investigation and one thing that police will continue to struggle with throughout the course of this investigation is the Tiffany Williams telling them that Johnny saying, bro, what are you doing? Bro, who the hell are you? And they are trying to decipher what they are hearing secondhand through Tiffany Williams. Does anything that, that Johnny is saying in that moment, does that tell them that he can, that he knows who this person is or knows the people or one of the people that are attempting to invade the home, or does he not know them? And Tiffany Williams and law enforcement will have changing and differing opinions at times in this investigation about that matter. But the other thing we also need to consider again, unfortunately, Johnny's not here to tell us his side of that conversation of that short phone call that took place at 10:41pm that night. We only have Tiffany Williams to tell us what she says that Johnny said on the phone.

[911 Dispatcher]

Right?

[Captain (Co-host)]

So much more to get to in this case. You're going to have to join us back here in the garage next week, but until then Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this week?

[Nick (Host)]

Captain no surprise here. We are recommending Where Do We Go From Here? Chaos or Community? By the great Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. In 1967, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr isolated himself from the demands of the civil rights movement. He rented a house in Jamaica with no telephone and labored over his final manuscript. Here he lays out his thoughts, plans and dreams for America's future with a universal message of hope that continues to resonate. King demanded an end to global suffering, powerfully asserting that humankind for the first time has the resources and technology to eradicate poverty. Check out this week's recommended reading, Where Do We Go From Here? Chaos or Community? By Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. You can find that title and many great other recommendations on our recommended [e-mail] and

[Captain (Co-host)]

until next week, be good, be kind, and don't live.

[Nick (Host)]

Sa.

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