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True Crime Garage
Longacre Lane /// Trials /// Part 4
01:28:16
In early 2011 near Toledo, Ohio a home invasion became a double homicide investigation. This was a night that shook an entire community. What happened that night? Why were these two victims seemingly targeted? Who could do something this heinous and evil to two people that were so young. This case can still be solved. Join Nic & Captain in the Garage and find out how. If you know any information about the murders of Lisa Straub and Johnny Clarke please call Crime Stoppers at 419-255-1111, or the Lucas County Detective’s Bureau at 419-213-4917, or reach out to reporter Brian Dugger at bdugger@wtol.com
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Nick (Host)
So good, so good, so good.
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Nick (Host)
Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me, as always, if you're is a man who I thought would be my silent partner. Here is the captain.
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Captain (Co-host)
Silent but deadly partner. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.
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Nick (Host)
Today we are still drinking garage beer. I guess every week, Captain, we are drinking garage beer. But this garage beer is called garage beer and it's a classic light beer brewed the way light beer used to be made. This is cold refreshing beer. Three grams of carbs, 95 calories, garage rate three and three quarter bottle caps out of five. And if you would like some true crime garage for your eyeballs, check us out on YouTube. And if you would like to help out the show and get something in return, you can score some true crime garage gear on our website's store page. Truecrimegarage.com yeah, BWR you and beer run.
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Captain (Co-host)
And that is enough of the
- [02:32]
Nick (Host)
Right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. We will be talking a lot about DNA in this case here today. But before we get into the DNA evidence and especially that cigarette butt that we talked about so much about at the end of yesterday's episode, we need to talk about the suspects police found in Johnny's social circle. Now, this is the early stages of the investigation here, Captain. This is within days and weeks after the double homicide. Now, we know that police spoke many times to Johnny's close friend, and I want to use that term loosely, we're being told that they were close friends. But it sounds to me, Captain, that that Johnny may have had a couple of air quotes close friends for a few months, the summer and fall prior to his murder. And these people may not have necessarily been involved in his life prior to that.
- [03:46]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
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Nick (Host)
And so we want to make sure we're using that term loosely, especially if Johnny's friends and loved ones are listening and. And they're getting upset that we're calling this individual close friend. But this is how it's reported, and that's what he's referred to as. And we're talking about somebody that we've mentioned briefly before, Anthony Watson. He also goes by Tony and Tone Watson. Now, he is a key player here in this investigation and either considered to be a suspect or a person with information to police early on in the investigation, because he will ultimately tell authorities that he was supposed to either stop by the Straub house the evening of the double homicide, or if you listen to the entirety of the interview with Anthony Watson, he also makes reference to the possibility that Johnny might be stopping by his house. So I have not been able to sort out if this is Watson changing his story or not wanting to put himself as potentially being at the Straub house or going to the Straub house that night. But the reason why we know this to be part of the case is that a person who is not considered to be a suspect and should not be considered a suspect. We remember we spoke about Johnny's very close friend, the lifelong friend that ends up talking to Tiffany and Zach that night. And that's how they ultimately get in touch with Johnny's parents. So Johnny's lifelong best friend and some others are people that tell the police, look, we know that Anthony Watson was either supposed to drop by the Straub house or Johnny was supposed to go to Anthony's house that night, because Johnny said this to a couple people before the murder. So this obviously will be somebody that police want to talk to. Did you actually end up going to the Strop house? Did Johnny end up going to your house? And you can hear in the interview that he says, no, that the meetup never actually took place. In fact, the short of it, the best way to sum it up, is that Johnny mentions this to a person that he's on the phone with, speaking the person that he's speaking to. Immediately before taking the call from Tiffany Williams, Anthony Watson tells police that the two were planning to meet up, but when it got too late, he bailed, telling Johnny that he had to get up early for school the following morning. Now, I can't vouch for that part of the alibi. Right. But we do know that Anthony Watson was in school at that time. So that that may be just as Anthony Watson says.
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Captain (Co-host)
Well, and we also. We don't. Law enforcement has the phone record, so they could be able to run that alibi.
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Nick (Host)
We hope so, yes. We. We hope.
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Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [07:02]
Nick (Host)
That they have all of the phone records. And so did the two actually see each other that night? That remains a question for a lot of people. And even though the DNA evidence is going to lead us to two other individuals, both of them not named Anthony Watson, there is evidence at the murder scene that other persons were involved. So we can't really eliminate everybody else just because that DNA led us to two other individuals. And the tricky thing here, though, with Watson, there's parts of that interview, and we looked at that interview quite a bit because on the surface, he seems to be very much like a. Like a twin of Samuel Williams. They, you know, they dress the same, they kind of act the same. They're. They both have criminal background, history of violence. But there's something a little different about Watson to me, and it's just. This is not proof of anything. It's just a. It's just kind of a gut reaction that I get to his interview that there's something about him that tells that. My instinct here, Captain, is that I believe that he's telling the truth more times than he's not telling the truth in that interview.
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Captain (Co-host)
He doesn't come off as standoffish to law enforcement. It seems like he's willing to have a conversation with them. He's willing to even ponder ideas that he might not even know if it's true or not. Here's some rumors I heard. I'm not really for sure, but he also seems. Again, so he seems like he's willing to cooperate, and he seems like he's pretty relaxed. When you look at some of the other interrogations, those people come across as not willing to cooperate, and they're definitely not relaxed.
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Nick (Host)
Yeah, it's. It's strange, too, because there were parts of that interview that I thought, oh, man, the way that he is, he just keeps taking a sip of that drink, almost like he's nervous. And I'm like, he's doing that constantly because he's nervous, and he's nervous because he's lying. And then I thought that. I thought the detective did a good job trying to back him into a corner and asked him straight up, he's like, are you nervous? And Watson says, no, I'm pissed. And I got get. Getting to think about it. And watching him again, that could explain that what I thought was nervous drinking. He may just be pissed like he told the officer.
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Captain (Co-host)
Well, that's interesting that you thought he came off as nervous because I thought he came. I mean, I guess I didn't notice. I have to go back. I guess I didn't notice how many times he was taking a drink.
- [09:54]
Nick (Host)
That was the only part. You're right though. His, his verbal, just the verbal communication. I was trying to watch and get an opinion of him on just his physical communication and his body language. But his verbal communication with the officer is incredibly casual. Like, appears that not only like this guy with a criminal history, he's very comfortable with the detective and not because he thinks he's smarter than the detective or anything like that. It almost feels like, like they may have, they may know each other fairly well because they, they speak pretty candidly to one another, or at least it appears that way, and almost in a chummy manner at times too.
- [10:39]
Captain (Co-host)
But he, well, like you said, he has a criminal history, so this is probably a situation that he's been in before, but it's a big difference to be in that situation and be guilty of something and to be into that in that situation and not be guilty of something.
- [10:54]
Nick (Host)
Yes. And one thing that's interesting, he remains an interesting figure in this whole case because where, I can't decide where he falls. Again, we're looking for additional suspects because we know other people, or at least the evidence is telling us other people were involved, involved in this double homicide. Now, he remains an interesting figure to me for a couple reasons. One, he tells, he does tell police some information like that he had heard that there were at least four people involved in the murder and he references two males and two females. And the tricky thing though, with Watson, to me, what is not in question is that he was in communication with Johnny. Right. And we, that's, that is per him, he, he says that Johnny told other people that that night. So we, he agrees with, with that, that he was in communication with Johnny on the, on the day that Johnny was killed. What we need to learn more about Watson is exactly what you said, Captain, with the phone records. I'm hoping that they have subpoenaed all the potential people, all the proper channels and received all of those phone records and then put them together, make, put them together, cross cross reference them and put together a timeline of just the phone calls between about anywhere from four to about eight different people. And I think you could get a very clear picture or at least a, a very good understanding of the movements and maybe who was with who that night.
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Captain (Co-host)
I think the problem Though too is again, a guy with a criminal history. If he knows some of these other individuals that might have been involved,
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Nick (Host)
it
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Captain (Co-host)
would be hard to fault him for not naming names because of what these guys are obviously capable of. And I don't know if he has children of his own or other family members, but that'd be a very tough situation to be in. Even if you just heard rumors, you don't know for certain who was there. And to give that information to the police, knowing are the police going to be able to catch these guys before they come after me?
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Nick (Host)
Well, and you're exactly right. And we're going to see this throughout the, the remainder of this investigation and reminder, it's not completely solved. This is not a solved case that we are talking about here today.
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Captain (Co-host)
And partially solved, right?
- [13:46]
Nick (Host)
Yeah, if we want to call it that. But, but the thing is, Anthony Watson does name names to the, to the police. I don't know if that that put puts him in or paints him in a different light for, for people out there, but he does name names. Now, the other person that we need to talk about, another central figure in this investigation is Alexandra Cuzo, who goes by Alex. Now, police question this woman, Alex, who would eventually be determined by police as the, quote, common denominator between all the persons of interest in the friend group regarding anyone's involvement with the murder of the young couple. And so while we say common denominator, this is going to be key here, Captain, because what is quickly understood by police is one thing that they sort out in this case is when that DNA evidence on that cigarette butt lead them to Samuel Williams and Cameo Pettaway, whose DNA was found on that cigarette butt. Both of them, they quickly determined that Samuel Williams and, and Cameo Pettaway did not know Lisa Straub, did not know Johnny, that Johnny and Lisa did not know Cameo or Samuel Williams. So there has to be. These two just didn't show up randomly in the middle of the night and kick in the door and attack these people and kill them in the way that, the horrible way that they were killed. Nobody believes that. The evidence suggests otherwise. Police said from the beginning they believed based off of the evidence and the circumstances surrounding the case, that the killers were known to our victims. And so we need someone to six degrees of Kevin Bacon. Right? We need somebody that is degree number one, two and three from Johnny and Lisa to connect us to these persons that the DNAs found in their home. And police say that this person could be Alexandra Cousino. So they say that she may be the common denominator between all the persons of interest in the friend group and persons regarding this double homicide. So Alex is an of interest to the police very early on for several reasons. One, she had a falling out with Johnny over the purchase of a dog and a car. So In October of 2010, remember, they're killed. In 2011, late January, Johnny and Lisa agreed to buy a puppy off of this Alex Cusineau. And as the story goes, they agreed to pay her $100 for the puppy, but only paid her $50. So she's upset about this and the. The three of them have words over this a couple of times. But as the story goes, she eventually. They eventually make up that they let bygones be bygones. Right then sometime around Thanksgiving, this may be have been just before, just after Thanksgiving. Now, unfortunately, we only have Alex here to tell us her side of the story. She claims that Johnny was constantly trying to talk her into buying his car. Johnny has a Dodge Stratus and he, according to Alex, wanted to sell it to her for $1,500 cash. Now, we do know that Johnny did not have a vehicle at the time of the homicide. So this will kind of explain away why he does not have a vehicle. The, the flip side of this story, and we, we have to kind of sort this out and figure out who we believe here is. Johnny's friends and family say no, no, no, no, no. She talked him into selling her the car. It wasn't Johnny that was constantly asking her to buy it. She talked him into it. So two very different opinions of the same situation.
- [18:13]
Captain (Co-host)
Different accounts. Yeah.
- [18:16]
Nick (Host)
So in her interview with police, with the. With the same detective that interviewed Tony Watson, Samuel Williams and Tiffany Williams, she tells police that that Johnny relentlessly pushed her to buy the vehicle despite the fact that she wasn't really interested. But she, you know, was. Was friends with him and needed a car anyway, so she agreed to buy the vehicle from him. And, and she says she paid him $750 cash and promised that. That she would pay him the other 750 either in payments, installments or, or at another time. Now, the way that this goes down is Johnny doesn't sign over the title to her, so this would be possible. Further proof that, yes, she was supposed to pay him the additional money.
- [19:11]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [19:12]
Nick (Host)
However, in December, she. So she has the car for a very short period of time and she gets into this big argument with Johnny about the vehicle. And so what, John, what she's saying is that all the car was, was in really bad shape. I had it for a short period of time. The tire fell off. She's saying that the car breaks down, so she doesn't want to pay for the rest of it. Meanwhile, others are saying that Johnny was angry with her because she wouldn't pay him the rest of the money.
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Captain (Co-host)
Right.
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Nick (Host)
What ends up happening is Johnny's parents get involved and they are not happy about this whole car situation. They think that Alex duped him out of the vehicle and probably was trying to get him to sign over the title so she wouldn't have to pay him the extra 750. And then she recklessly drives this thing so it breaks down. Now, maybe not on purpose, but she's driving in a manner that you wouldn't drive an older car. So there was damage to the vehicle. That's not a question. And we know that because once Johnny's parents get involved, and guess what? Once you get the law involved, whoever's name's on the title has rightful ownership to that vehicle, regardless of what exchanged hands or what agreement that you had. Yeah.
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Captain (Co-host)
So is law enforcement looking at this as a possible motive?
- [20:40]
Nick (Host)
Yes, and here's why. So law enforcement, they. They go out to Alex and they take the vehicle from her and return it to Johnny.
- [20:49]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [20:50]
Nick (Host)
And so now after that takes place, no more money exchanges hands. She wants her $750 back. Johnny wants the car fixed because she. She busted up the car. So both of them are not happy. Well, the reason why this becomes possible motive, it's not so much about the car. It's not so much about the puppy. It's not so much about the money that's owed. It's the bad blood that's brewing between the two of them. Because we, we know that, that Alex. We have several people in this case who said under oath that they had knowledge that Alex threatened Johnny's life on more than one occasion. So she threatens. And one of the threats is very specific, saying, if you don't give me my $750 back, I'm going to send a couple guys over to your house to kill you and Lisa. Well, this becomes of interest, obviously, to police because what happened to Johnny and Lisa. Yeah, this happens to Johnny and Lisa Less than 60 days after these threats first start, I'm going to send a couple guys over there to kill you and Lisa. It looks like somebody may have sent a couple guys over to the Straub's house the night that they were killed.
- [22:20]
Captain (Co-host)
Right?
- [22:22]
Nick (Host)
Yeah.
- [22:22]
Captain (Co-host)
Because like we said before, in the previous few episodes, a Motive is not that clear. Yeah, it's a nice house. Maybe there were some rumors that her family kept money in the house or possibly a safe, but no evidence of that. And maybe the other possibility is that they either had drugs or were going to get drugs or had money for drugs, and maybe that would be possibly the motive. And then you hear in the one interrogation that we talked about on part three is possibly the idea that, look, in this scenario, you go, well, this guy screwed me out of a car, so I'm going to send over these thugs to kill you. And that is actually the motive. But they tell the guys going over, oh, there's money in the house, so that's how you're going to get paid. Yeah, well, yeah, maybe some of these guys that were down on their luck and trying to turn around their life thought that this was an opportunity for a big score to start changing things.
- [23:35]
Nick (Host)
Yeah, and we've seen this in other cases, too, right? You get these other persons involved and you say, look, I need you to go over to this place and do this thing for me. Who knows? Maybe it was just. They were just supposed to scare him and beat him up. I'll cut you in on that 750 that I get back. Or, you know, I'll pay you X amount of dollars to. To carry this out for me. And then what's the smart criminal going to say to the other smart criminal? Where the hell did you get that kind of money? And then, then we go, I don't have that money. But your payment is in the Straub household. It's inside that house. So you carry this out for me. I'll help set this thing up. I'll make sure that they're there, and I'll make sure that you get whatever money's in that house or we split it. So what we do know is that the cigarette butt collected at the house contained a mix of two male DNA profiles. When investigators enter those profiles into codis, into the CODIS system, they get a match to two existing samples in that database. Cameo Pettaway and Samuel Todd Williams. Samuel Todd Williams is arrested for the murders of Lisa Straub and Johnny Clark on January 31, 2011, when they were killed. But he's not arrested until months and months later. Ironically, he's picked up while he's out running to the store to buy a pack of cigarettes. And he's 24 years old at the time. And he actually tells police he thought he was being arrested for other reasons. Remember, he's. He's got a lengthy criminal history. So he says, look, I don't know nothing about no murders. Well then why do you think we picked you up and why do you think we arrest you? He goes, oh, well, I think I thought it was for some other, you know, he had a domestic violence warrant out against him. He also says that his assumption was that he has a promoting prostitution charge in which he's involved in. And he thinks that it could be one or both of those reasons that the police, they basically surround him in unmarked cars and uniformed officers and they take him down on the street. Security usually means extra steps and complications. But with Apple Pay secure payments are simple. Your transactions are authenticated with face id, touch ID or passcode. So security is built in when you check out. Plus your name isn't shared with merchants and they don't see your actual card number. Whether you're shopping in store, online or an app, protecting your money should be simple. Pay the Apple way. Terms apply.
- [26:37]
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- [27:06]
Nick (Host)
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- [27:41]
Captain (Co-host)
Alright, we are back. Cheers. Cheers, ladies and gents. Cheers to you, Colonel. And cheers to the people in the back.
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Nick (Host)
Cheers to you, Captain. When you. When I say something like un uniformed officers, that makes it sound like they're just running the streets nude.
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Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, it's.
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Nick (Host)
It's plain clothes. They were wearing plain clothes.
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Captain (Co-host)
Well, it gives a new definition to billy club.
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Nick (Host)
I'll tell you. You see nude individuals running at you with guns. Be scared.
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Captain (Co-host)
Nice billy club you got there.
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Nick (Host)
You have to be too smart to be scared of that situation. So like we had said earlier, when Samuel Todd Williams sits down with police, I got a whole different perspective on this guy than I got from somebody like Anthony Watson, or even from Tiffany Williams. Tiffany Williams, to me, doesn't seem smart enough to. I think that she's lucky in this situation by either being confused, being confused by her drug addiction, or that she can just play dumb because she. She gives unclear evidence and unclear statements and timelines to the police. And I think that that really convoluted the whole situation for police. When talking to somebody like Tiffany Williams, Samuel Williams, who we look to try to see if there's any relationship between the two, because the last names are the same. There is none that's ever reported. And I believe that if they were somehow related to one another, I get it, it's a common name. But these are the checks and balances we try to run here in the garage that I believe this would have been reported on. Police would have. Would have said that. Another common denominator is this Tiffany Williams person. Now, Tiffany Williams and Samuel Williams and Cameo Pettaway, they all know Alexandra as well. So you. You have your common denominators. Here are Alex and Tiffany Williams. That's your hop, skip, and a jump that takes you from victim to the two persons arrested with the DNA. Now, when they're talking to him, Captain, I get a different vibe on him. And the vibe I get on him is this is a dude that's probably in everyday normal life, probably pretty dumb, makes very bad decisions, commits terrible crimes, overall bad dude. But guess what? He's probably a fairly smart criminal and a career criminal. And he's. He. He seems to me to be the type that's old school in the way that I'm never going to admit to anything. I'm never going to rat on anybody. Anytime the cops talk to me about anything at all, my answer is I don't know. My answer is, is it daytime? I don't know. What's the date? Don't know. I don't know anything.
- [30:41]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, and it's. It's difficult because you don't want to call these jackasses intelligent, but it's almost maybe not even intelligence as much as it's just disciplined. You ask me a question, my answer is always no. You asked me, you asked me if the sky is blue. I don't know. I don't even know what the sky is.
- [31:01]
Nick (Host)
So when he's talked, questioned by detectives about the murder and asked if there's any bad blood between him and the couple, Sam, of course, is saying, I don't know them. I've never been to that house. And he asserts that he stays on the side on the east side of Toledo that he's. He's Toledo east side. He doesn't go to the south side or he doesn't go to the west side. And at some point, Sam repeatedly tells detectives that he doesn't want to talk. He does ask for his attorney. Authorities reveal around this time that his DNA has been matched to a Newport cigarette, a Newport brand cigarette butt that was found at the murder scene and that his DNA was mixed with another individual's.
- [31:49]
Captain (Co-host)
And.
- [31:49]
Nick (Host)
And they know that individual to be Cameo Pettaway. And Cameo Pettaway is a known friend and associate of Sam Williams. And the two have been known to share cigarettes. There were multiple people that confirmed this, that the two, on occasion would share a cigarette. This one confirmed by the mother of Samuel Williams child, one of his sons, who verifies that not only had she seen the two split a cigarette in the past, but also that Newport was the preferred brand of both Sam and Cameo. So Pettaway is also charged. Cameo is also charged with the double homicide. Then the two men are scheduled to be tried separately, but with the trials held simultaneously in the same court. Now, what this? The short of it is, Captain, is it? Sam is arraigned via video and pleads not guilty to two counts of murder and two counts of aggravated burglary. His bond is set at $5 million. At his arraignment, Lisa's family requests that Sam face the death death penalty if convicted of the murders. To which the state eventually agrees. So here's the tricky part. During his interview, Sam struggled to remember his whereabouts on the night of the crime. But keep in mind he's being. He's never questioned until he's arrested. Why? Because they had nothing connecting victim to Sam Williams.
- [33:21]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, because he wasn't.
- [33:22]
Nick (Host)
Until that DNA came out, he didn't
- [33:24]
Captain (Co-host)
seem to be a friend. He didn't.
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Nick (Host)
Which took eight months.
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Captain (Co-host)
Seems to be an acquaintance. Nobody in their circle, the victim circle, had this guy on their radar.
- [33:39]
Nick (Host)
So I believe Sam Williams when he says, I don't know those people. I think he didn't know them until that night. I don't believe him when he says, I was never at that house. I think he knew them after he had entered that house. But he's not spoken to by police until eight months after. Approximately eight months after the crimes. And so he. Of course he's not going to be able to look. He's. Two situations, that's all we have here for Sam Williams. Either he's going to provide, attempt to provide an alibi and Lie because he was in fact at the Straub home and responsible in these crimes. Or two, he wasn't there and it's eight months later and he's going to have difficulty sorting out where he was and who he was with.
- [34:27]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [34:28]
Nick (Host)
So he eventually, he reviews his own phone records and talks with family and friends and checks on his own social media. He's trying to figure out where he was that night, if he wasn't involved, or establish some kind of fake alibi if he was involved. And what he comes up with is he says he was at the Bottom Line, which is a bar located at 2053 Star Ave. In Toledo. This is on the east side. Now, depending on which route you take, there's a few different common routes that one may take. It's approximately 24 minutes to 29 minutes away from Longacre Lane. I'm pointing that out because the, the timeline here gets real tight, real tight with some of the evidence that we have in the case. So he says he's at the Bottom Line, which is a bar, and he's watching the Pro bowl, the NFL Pro Bowl. He mentions several other people who he says can confirm that he's there. Now, keep in mind, he's giving this interview October 28th to the detectives. He says that Larry Gilhouse was one of the persons that was there at the Bottom Line with him that night. He also says that Eddie Flores was there with him as well as Destiny Madrid. So police talk to Larry Gilhouse and he says that he was there that night. And this is what he tells the police. He says, look, Sam was at a party at my house for my daughter earlier that evening, the night of the murders. And he says he specifically remembers Sam being there for multitude of reasons, but one, that Sam was the only one who stayed to help him clean up. Now, I believe that the two are cousins. And he says after we cleaned up from the party, we went over to the bar to watch the bowl game, the Pro Bowl. And he says that Gilhouse says the same thing that Samuel Williams tells them, that they stayed late, they closed down the bar in typically, I'm guessing this bar would be a 2 o', clock, 2:30am kind of deal.
- [36:55]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [36:57]
Nick (Host)
I've looked it up. It's. It's not one of those mom and pop operations that close at 9 or 10 o'. Clock. Now the other thing that, that is tricky here is one key time in our timeline has always been that 10:41pm call from Tiffany Williams to our victim, Johnny who Tiffany, saying that she hears that the intrusion, the home invasion is taking place at 10:41. I. I did a little record checking here on this Pro bowl because I was super suspicious of this whole Pro bowl situation.
- [37:36]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, it seems like they're making a big deal out of this Pro bowl, but it's not like everybody that likes professional football loves the Pro Bowl.
- [37:44]
Nick (Host)
So the Pro bowl ended at approximately 10:45pm that night. So that would be after the 10:41 Tiffany call. That's always been a big part of this case. Now, the reason why our timeline gets so tight here with this possible alibi is one thing that we cannot dismiss because it's. It's data telling us that there was a phone call made on Sam's phone at 10:27pm that pinged off of a cell phone tower near the Bottom Line Bar. So he would be at 10:27pm his phone. I can't say where Sam was, but his phone was 24 to 29 minutes away from Longacre Lane where the two were killed. This call, to me, is all kinds of strange because part of his alibi is he's at the Bottom Line bar with these three other individuals. He closes the bar down with a couple of them, and then later, he is hanging out with this Destiny Madrid girl for the early morning hours of the following day. You know, they're going to party all night together. But the phone call that puts his phone so many miles away from the. From the crime scene and in a time frame that doesn't leave enough time for him to get there, to be there at 10:41pm that call is a call with Destiny Madrid, one of the people that he says he's already hanging out with. So we know he's not already hanging out with her.
- [39:29]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [39:29]
Nick (Host)
What we end up, what we end up learning is that the explanation given is that, oh, she was on her way. He was calling to see when she would get there. You know, where are you? I thought we were hanging out. And so she's making her way to the bar at that time. So these. This explanation, this alibi, ultimately are not believed by the police. And I've heard people.
- [39:58]
Captain (Co-host)
It's hard to believe it because you have his DNA at the crime scene.
- [40:01]
Nick (Host)
Exactly. That's.
- [40:03]
Captain (Co-host)
If there is no DNA at the crime scene, then you go, well, this story is maybe plausible.
- [40:09]
Nick (Host)
There's some people that have said, you know what? He couldn't have got there that fast in that time. Look, let's be clear here. The cell phone tower records put him near the they don't. We can't find. We can't use that data to put his ass on a bar stool at the Bottom Line.
- [40:26]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [40:26]
Nick (Host)
Bar. All we can say is that his cell phone was in the area of a tower near the Bottom Line Bar. Could. Could he have already been in a. Riding shotgun in a vehicle driving away from the Bottom Line bar at that time? Or. Or away from the area of the Bottom Line? Yes, that would put him at Longacre Lane right around the 1041 time period. If, you know, I'm thinking that late at night, that late at night, he's. There's probably little to no traffic at all of Toledo's any. I mean, Columbus is a much bigger city than Toledo and it's a, it's damn near a ghost town. At 10 o' clock at night on a Sunday, you. You can move pretty quick through our city at 10pm on a Sunday night. And so could he already been in a vehicle making its way there? I believe so. Because for all the people that get on to police here and say, look, you use cell phone information to put a suspect at a crime scene, but when the cell phone information tells you that they were elsewhere, you, you dismiss it. And. But the problem here is we, we don't have to fully explain all of the cell phone information. You don't even have to get to that until after you fully explain the DNA information. The DNA puts him in the Strob house. If he cannot, if that cannot be explained away or proven to be incorrect, then we don't even have to get to the cell phone information because guess what? I could hand my cell phone off to Destiny Madrid and she can make calls and do walk around town with it and hop in cars and go to bars and have a great time with my cell phone while I'm across town doing unspeakable acts inside of that home.
- [42:20]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah. And I think the problem with law enforcement is what is the DNA connected to? Because his, his DNA is not found on the victims. It's not found on other items in the house. It's found on a cigarette butt. And so he's going, well, I can explain that away because that item could have been brought to the scene.
- [42:42]
Nick (Host)
So this Pro bowl alibi has bothered me big time. And here's why. Captain, you and I are very big fans of the NFL. In fact, last night we must have traded a dozen text in the middle of a game, and guess what? We were watching. We're both watching the same game. Neither of us really care for either we're not big fans of either of the teams playing. We're just very much into the NFL. Do you give, do you care at all about the Pro Bowl? When's the last time have you watched a Pro Bowl?
- [43:17]
Captain (Co-host)
No, never.
- [43:19]
Nick (Host)
I cannot recall the last time I watched a Pro Bowl.
- [43:22]
Captain (Co-host)
Watch when. I just don't know when last time
- [43:25]
Nick (Host)
I watched one captain and I can't even put a date on it. But this will tell you about how long ago it was. I was in Gardo's Pizza on Broadway.
- [43:34]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah.
- [43:34]
Nick (Host)
And the mo. I thought the most entertaining part of the Pro bowl was the Dr. Pepper halftime extra point kick or field goal kick. If the, if that, if that civilian kicked the ball through the uprights, that they won like a million dollars or something.
- [43:51]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [43:52]
Nick (Host)
And that, that description to you. Now, our listeners don't know what any of what that means, but wouldn't that you believe that that's probably 20 years ago that this really big NFL fan watched a Pro Bowl? The reason why I have a problem with this Pro bowl thing is that Johnny was at his friend's house watching the Pro Bowl. That is not in question. What's in question is what was Sam Williams doing that night and is his alibi of being at a bar watching the Pro Bowl. Does it hold any weight? And I cannot believe that there is a story out there in 2011 that two people of this young of an age, both that care so much to watch the Pro Bowl. Now, could I be wrong? Absolutely.
- [44:37]
Captain (Co-host)
But, but, but in his defense, it could be I was at a bar and the Pro Ball happened to be on.
- [44:45]
Nick (Host)
Right.
- [44:46]
Captain (Co-host)
I think probably didn't care that much. He probably is like you. Whatever happened at halftime was probably more important than the whole entire game.
- [44:55]
Nick (Host)
Exactly. But people cite the specificity of his alibi, the details he's able to provide, just not, not just what he was doing. But here's my movements and here's the details and here's three other individuals to back this all up. People's people highlight that and say that it is suggestive that this alibi is, is true. And I agree with that. Thought, however, of the wrench that I want to throw into that to this equation is I spoke to several people that know Johnny, that knew Johnny very well. And I said, he told you he was at a friend's house watching the Pro Bowl. Yes. He even told me that the two friends he was watching it with. I said, we know that Tiffany Williams was in constant contact based off of the phone records with Johnny that night. Are you of the opinion that if asked what he was doing, that Johnny would offer up that information to Tiffany Williams? Will he offer up that information to Anthony Watson, who we know he was in contact with that night? And everybody said, yes, he was. Johnny was pretty much an open book. Hey, what are you doing? Oh, I'm at so and so's house. We're watching the Pro Bowl. After this, I'm going to go pick up Lisa and we're going to head back to her place. The reason why I'm. I'm highlighting that, Captain, is because I think that if Tiffany Williams wasn't at that home when they were killed or in the home that night, that she had knowledge of what was going on, what took place inside of that home. And we know that based off of her statement to the family, this is before anybody even arrives on the scene, that she saw that the place had been ransacked, which could not physically have happened unless she was in the home or had knowledge from someone who was in the home at that that night?
- [46:49]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah. So just to. Just to make that perfectly clear for everybody listening, Tiffany Williams tells the parents, before the cops or anybody shows up at the crime scene, that the house was ransacked. When the police get there, and the police go there multiple times, they have. They find no evidence to give them probable cause to enter that property. If they would have been able to see through any window that the house was possibly ransacked, they would have had probable cause and they would have been been able to enter that property. And that never happened.
- [47:23]
Nick (Host)
Correct. And because they never entered the home, they. They couldn't because nobody could see inside the house. So then she has to have knowledge. She's privy to knowledge that. That nobody else was at that. At that scene at that time. So she's privy to that knowledge prior to going to the scene with the cops and the parents. Now, the reason why I'm bringing that all up is because I believe that there were a couple people, one, if not maybe two people that were keeping tabs on Johnny that day and that night, whoever wanted to carry this out, they wanted to carry it out in the Straub home, and they wanted Johnny to be there. And so if Johnny so willingly offered up this information, I'm over at so and so's house watching the Pro Bowl. I won't be home until I pick up Lisa when she gets off work at 10. If we have multiple people telling us that he would willingly give up that information to others, there's no reason to not believe that he may have told Tiffany Williams that. That he may have told Zach that who he was in contact with and, and. Or that he may have told Anthony Watson that. And the reason why I'm saying that, Captain, is because guess what? If I'm the third party, if I'm the muscle, if I'm Sam Williams, Cameo Pettaway, and I'm waiting on the call, waiting on the call for you to tell me it's go time. We got to get to Longacre Lane. It's not that far of a stretch to believe that there was another phone call or communication where someone says, he's not at home, he's at. He's watching the Pro Bowl. And if I'm the muscle waiting on that. And now, eight months later, I need an alibi. What's one thing that I know that took place that night, the Pro Bowl? Because I remember being told, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna have to wait. He's busy watching the Pro Bowl. And I, I think that, that somewhere in this, maybe this alibi, the genesis of this alibi started with information that Sam Williams had before Lisa and Johnny were killed. Now we're going to get into some phone call information here. And this is the time in the show, look, we're not a kid friendly show. It's E for explicit, not E for everyone rated on this show. And so if you got young ones in the vehicle or you don't want to hear words yourself, it's time to ear, muff up. Like they say in old school. Ear muff up. But I forgot about, first of all, earmuffs here. Here's something that's going to make Alex not look so good. Okay? So she's in a squabble with somebody else, somebody not related to this case at all. But this person gives this information to the police, and this is not going to look good for her. She's in a squabble with somebody else. And this is about a week after. Okay, let's. Here we go. I found the information in my notes here. So we're talking about Alexandra Cousino, her possible involvement. And. And in fact, when police are talking to Anthony Watson, Anthony Watson tells the police that he believes that Johnny bought Percocets off of someone named Peanut. And he knows who Peanut is. Peanuts, a nickname. But he gives Peanuts real name to the police and he says, look, I believe that from what I've heard, Johnny owed Peanut some money, maybe even a bunch of money. But the police are like, well, do you think that Peanut Would, would be involved, would get, take retaliation or go to collect his money. And Watson says, no, I don't think that Peanut would retaliate even if there was money that was owed because he knew of several other individuals that were still alive and well that owed money to Peanut.
- [51:26]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [51:27]
Nick (Host)
And this is, this is months after. This is about two months after the, the homicides. Now what, what will. What Anthony Watson does supply police with is that he says that he heard that Alexandra kuso was involved. AP's ex girlfriend. So AP is another nickname. He tells police that he believes that there are at least four people involved. And then what we end up finding out is that this Alexander Ko, the woman who's the common denominator, determined to be the common denominator by police less than 24 hours after the bodies were discovered, we find out that she sent a text message to someone that she's in a squabble with that says, I do this shit, fam. Watch the news, bitch. Motherfuckers get duct taped and tied up and left for dead. That's her text message to somebody else that she's in a fight with and has beef with. Less than 24 hours after the bodies were discussed.
- [52:34]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, this is her bragging that she killed them. This is a confession.
- [52:39]
Nick (Host)
Yeah. So Anthony Watson tells authorities of a conversation that he had weeks before he's picked up in question with a woman who is not identified in any reporting source that I could find. He says the woman in this conversation placed herself at the scene of the crime. He also alleges that Sam Williams and another man named DRO and a second woman were present at the murder. The four had broken into the Straub residence seeking a safe that was rumored to be in the home. And one thing we need to be clear about him potentially implicating multiple people in this crime. Watson does tell police, admits to fearing for his own safety and that of his families. Now, the other phone calls, Captain Sam Williams, once he's in jail, waiting trial, you know, they record those calls. Well, Sam makes a phone call and, and tells a relative, I up. I'm going to be in here for a long time. Now, he will go to trial. Sam will go to trial. And at his trial, this is presented by the prosecution as an admission of guilt. And he says, no, that's simply taken out of context. There was also another possible incriminating phone call that is made. This is in April of 2012. This is when Sam Williams, still in jail waiting trial, calls Stephen Pett away. Stephen Pettaway is the brother of the alleged accomplice, Cameo. Pett away, who's also arrested for the double murder. And on this call, Sam says to Stephen, quote, that was supposed to be me and you, but, you know, little bro had to step up to take your spot, man. You know, he didn't do it right like I would have done it. I'm sorry. Stephen responds to Sam saying, you know, he didn't do it right like I would have done it. To which Sam replies, no, but he did it good enough to make something happen.
- [54:39]
Captain (Co-host)
Well, they all sound like real pieces of.
- [54:41]
Nick (Host)
So this sounds like it was supposed to be Stephen, Cameo's older brother, who was super tight. The. Everything I could find, Captain, suggests that Sam and Stephen were like best friends, right. And that Cameo is Steven's little brother and that he was. That Sam and Cameo were tight as well. And a lot of times the three of them would. Would run together. But I think that Stephen may have been locked up for something at this time. And so if somebody was looking to hire muscle, Sam and Cameo got the job, not Sam and Stephen. And so again, the prosecution at trial is saying this is further indication that he's implicating himself in these crimes and Cameo as well. But Sam says, look, this was, as was taken out of context as well, that this was. This was in reference to their. The three of them were kind of running this prostitution ring together. And we know that because all three of them had been arrested at different times for promoting prostitution.
- [55:49]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [55:49]
Nick (Host)
And I know that a lot of people don't like to hear that word, but that's. That's the term. That's the word and term that's used in the charges. So that's what.
- [55:56]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, that's the least.
- [55:57]
Nick (Host)
That's the term we're using. Yes. So he says that that is. He's referencing like, Cameo was doing a good job helping us run this ring, but he wasn't making enough. He wasn't making enough money. He should have been making more money. He was doing good, but he could have done it better. Well, I mean, we can't. We can't sit here and claim to know 100% that that's not truth. But it also seems pretty logical that he may have been referring to the murders as well in these conversations.
- [56:27]
Captain (Co-host)
So even though that we believe that there's four, maybe more people involved, maybe even a lookout person, maybe a contact person for all the different individuals law enforcement is able to charge and bring two individuals to trial, they're not going to be tried together. But they're going to be tried at the same time
- [56:54]
Nick (Host)
and in the same courtroom. And the weird thing here is they're using that same evidence against both of these individuals. The cigarette butt, Sam Williams, DNA found on it, Cameo. Pettaway's DNA found on that same cigarette butt that was found at the crime scene. Now, police were trying to move on other suspects as well, especially Alex or Alexandra. But I think that they believed once they had this evidence that put Sam and Cameo at the crime scene that. That those two would start talking. Unfortunately, neither of them confessed to anything and did not implicate anybody else in the crimes either. And then to further complicate issues, Cameo Pway, his case gets tossed. So the judge says that the only evidence they have on Cameo is that cigarette butt, nothing else. Nobody's saying that they even heard that he was there. He's not implicated himself in any form or fashion where with Sam Williams, they have other evidence against him. So the judge tosses Pettaway's case for lack of evidence. Don't get onto the judge about this, because if. If you take Cameo Pett away to trial and he's found innocent, you can't try him again. The judge isn't saying Cameo Pettaway didn't do this. The judge is saying, you need to have a stronger case against this individual to have it in my courtroom. But the judge determines that there's enough evidence against Sam Williams. And part of this evidence is those phone calls. Part of the evidence is individuals saying that they had heard that Sam Williams was involved. And then part of the evidence also will be what the captain hates the most. A jailhouse snitch. So this individual, his last name is Yingling. So it's Eric Yingling. He will testify in court that not only did Williams confess the. To the crimes to him, that. That Williams also provided a lot of detail about the murders.
- [59:01]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [59:02]
Nick (Host)
And that he had information given to him by Sam Williams that would have only been known to the killers or law enforcement. And part of that information was something at the crime scene. Remember, we talked about that expensive jewelry in the home was not taken by the perpetrators. And also all of that Iraqi currency that I believe There was like $4,500 in several different envelopes that was all Iraqi currency. And that Sam Williams had told Yingling something to the effect of, you know, Yingling, when. When. When Williams is telling him about the crimes. According to Yingling, you know, he wants to know, well, did you ever find the safe? Or how much money did you find in the house. And, and Williams tells him, well, the only large amount of money that we found in the home was this Saddam Hussein money that we couldn't do anything with. So we left it. And at the time at the trial it was believed that that was information that would have only been known to the strobs, to police and to the killers. And they used this information against Sam Williams along with the other information that we've already gone through. Now I do want to be clear here that it was late. It's. There has been later. The accuracy of, of that information only being privy to the killer in law enforcement has been called into question for good reason because I believe it was cnn, I know that it was reported, I believe it was CNN that reported that the Iraqi currency, foreign currency, was found in the home. So somebody watching that news clip or following the case may have known about that information and could have fed it to the jailhouse. Niche Yingling.
- [61:02]
Captain (Co-host)
So again, two people charged basically based off the same evidence, but in one of the cases they're not going to be able to use that evidence. So what is the outcome of these two trials?
- [61:14]
Nick (Host)
Well, after hearing from 27 witnesses and reviewing more than 130 exhibits in a four day trial, we have a jury of 12 who find Sam Williams guilty of two counts of murder, two counts of kidnapping and a single count of aggravated burglary. And he ultimately will get sentenced to two life sentences without the possibility of parole. So eventually the death penalty goes away in this case. Now we do know that the families, or at least the Clark family, were big advocates for the death penalty in this situation.
- [62:00]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, which is, which is understandable in this situation.
- [62:03]
Nick (Host)
Now where the case sits today, Captain, is Samuel Williams is still in prison and the evidence and what some of the people were telling police is suggestive that there were four persons in the home that night, if not more. And so who were these other three? And even if you include Cameo Pettaway whose DNA was found at the scene, you still have two people that are not known, not identified, never been charged. So the, the outstanding theories on the case are that the intruders broke into the Strob home on, on the night of January 30, 2011, looking for the safe, looking for any money or even possible drugs that might have been in the home and that they were. So there was, unfortunately there was considerable damage to both Lisa and Johnny that is not from killing them. So one could believe that maybe they're being tortured or they're being hit, they're being assaulted to provide Information. Where's the safe? Where's the safe? Where's the money? Where's the money? So the way that the theories work is that either they were intentionally killed or that the bags were used as some form of torture to try to get information from them or torture to send a message to them in retaliation for something else. And that one of them actually one of them accidentally died and then they had to kill the other one. That's why we talked about early in this case that. That the coroner could not sort out who died first. And there. There was concern with that inside of this case in the investigation. The other theory is that based off of the interviews with Johnny's friend Tony, Anthony Watson. Tony or Tone Watson, that he was telling the truth. That Anthony Watson told police that a woman in their circle named Alexandra Cuso. Yeah, that witch who had a history of having altercations with Johnny before the murders, that she was involved and she got others involved and were responsible for the murders. Some things that occurred to me in this case, Captain, that we talked about offline the other day. You know, why would Tiffany make those calls? Why would she get other people involved after the fact if she set everybody up, if she was making arrangements? And I said one, it would be to explain away why she made the 10:41 call at all.
- [65:06]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [65:09]
Nick (Host)
But there's a couple of other reasons why she may have made these calls. Could she have provided transportation? Could she have been a driver to and from, and that's how she got the knowledge of the house being ransacked before she should have had that before anybody else had that knowledge? Or did she offer up a vehicle that could be used and she wasn't the driver? We do know that prior, according to her own story, before going over to the Straub home that night, that she stopped by another individual's house and was there for about an hour and that she took a borrowed vehicle with her? It was not Zach's vehicle. It was not her vehicle. Did she simply go over there and hide out for an hour or so and let somebody, some other people's that were at that location, use her vehicle or use that vehicle that wouldn't have ties to the individuals occupying the vehicle.
- [66:02]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [66:03]
Nick (Host)
Because again, it didn't belong to Tiffany or Zach. And here's the other thing for the call, the late night call that ends up getting in communication with Johnny Clark's parents. I've wondered. One of the persons they tried to call. Well, one of the people they did speak to, remember Zach called Johnny's Lifelong friend Reuben. Reuben is the only reason why this thing gets back to the Clarks at all. And the clerks showing up that night, calling the police, causes all kinds of problems for Tiffany and Zach. If they're trying to hide something and all the people responsible in this case, I've been wondering if they were really concerned they would figure out how to call the Clarks. They weren't calling the Clarks. They weren't asking Reuben. How did we get in touch with the Clarks? No, they were talking to Reuben. They were trying to get Reuben to ride over to the Straub house with them. Appear of Johnny and Lisa's. I'm starting to wonder, were they trying to get this dude back to this crime scene and set him up? Is the muscle still sitting there? Do we have Sam Williams and Cameo Pettaway splitting a cigarette in the. In the closed garage over at the Straub home while they're waiting for Tiffany and Zach to try to bring this innocent back to the home
- [67:29]
Captain (Co-host)
where.
- [67:30]
Nick (Host)
Yeah, no, I think they may have wanted to off him and try to make it look like he was responsible for the murders.
- [67:37]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [67:38]
Nick (Host)
Remember, we got the missing knives from the home. What if they would have, you know, sorry, but what if we would have made some postmortem stab wounds and then put some knives on this Reuben kid? Yeah, it. It's. It's weird that they got anybody else involved. And I. And I. I applaud you for pointing that out early on in this case, Captain, because it doesn't make sense that if Tiffany was in Zach were involved or knew what happened, that they would alert anybody unless their conscience got to them in a. In the short course of two hours. But I don't think that it did. I think that these calls and alerting other people was to either make something else happen, set up this, set somebody else up and frame somebody else, or to explain away their prior actions that they know they cannot hide the data. The phone records will always be there, so you need to explain them away. Now, regarding Tiffany Williams. In December of 2014, somebody shot, fires at or somebody fired shots at Tiffany Williams. Now, she wasn't hitting, but what we end up learning is that John, in my day, Clark, Johnny's parents, they are arrested a short period of time after these shots are fired at Tiffany Williams. And they're charged. They're charged with attempted assault.
- [69:04]
Captain (Co-host)
Really?
- [69:05]
Nick (Host)
On her.
- [69:06]
Captain (Co-host)
Wow.
- [69:06]
Nick (Host)
And there's no doubt that they. That. That John Clark fired those shots at Tiffany Williams. They have been an open book about this. They said, look, she was involved in the killing of our son and Lisa Straub. We lost our damn minds. She was never charged with anything. And we. We went out looking for her one night and fired some shots at her. So they've. They've been. They've been clean and clear about this. Now, they. They both went to. To prison for it. They're both out now, but they. This is not something that they hide from. This is not something that they deny. In fact, this is something that they are shouting from the mountaintops. There were other people involved in the murder of these two young individuals, and they've. Nobody else has been charged, nobody else has been sentenced, nobody else is in prison but this one dude.
- [70:00]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah, it's a way of putting fear into other individuals. And maybe they thought, well, she is not that bright and maybe she's the weakest link and if we could scare her enough, maybe she starts telling the cops names and breaking down exactly how this all went down and why it went down.
- [70:23]
Nick (Host)
Well, in another update, remember Anthony Watson, Tony or Tone Watson, who told police that he had a conversation with an unidentified woman who placed herself at the crime scene, who also implicated Sam Williams and alleged that two others, a man and another woman, were also involved. And guess what? The DNA at the scene is telling us that. That this information could be correct, that there was a female perpetrator involved, at least one female perpetrator, if not two. And we know that there were at least two different male DNAs found because we know they charged but then dropped the charge against Cameo. So Watson's information to police could be correct. And we had mentioned that this information, his cooperation with police, he. He told them that he. He was afraid for his life and for that of his families. After providing this information, they do hook him up. His. His felony count that he was facing on a. On a completely unrelated case was reduced to a misdemeanor. And he only ended up receiving probation for that when he pled guilty to that charge. We also don't know if. If the prosecutor or law enforcement had intended to drop it to a misdemeanor all. All along. And this was just icing on the cake. You get his cooperation for something you were already going to do anyway. But that information, his cooperation may have come at a high price. He was killed. He was fatally shot outside of his apartment in September of 2018. So an unknown assailant or assailants gun him down near his apartment in Toledo, Ohio. He shot. He shot in the leg. He calls 911 to report that he's been shot. And while he's still laying there waiting on emergency services to show up, he calls his mother. And he later dies at the hospital. And he's. He's dying on the phone call to his mom. He was only 30 years old at the time of his death. And as far as I could find, Captain, there's officially, there's been no suspects identified, and his murder remains unsolved. Cameo Pettaway, who's who, got lucky and the judge tossed his case in this double homicide. He gets picked up in 2012 for beating up a girlfriend. He's convicted of that charge. He gets six years in prison for that. He gets out, and he's not out for long because in 2020, he's accused in a shooting, a gun assault that takes place. Now, I looked for an update on his case, and as far as I could find, the information that's most up to date is 2023 February.
- [73:19]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [73:20]
Nick (Host)
And I could not figure out if he had been convicted of that charge or if he was still waiting trial. Now, in the end, Alexandra Cousino did submit DNA, refused to take a polygraph, but did agree to give her DNA to the detectives. We know that there had been unknown male and female DNA found on Johnny's sweat inside of Johnny's sweatpants pockets. We talked about the removing of the wallet, but what we do know is that when this DNA comes back and it doesn't match Alexandra Kuos, police decide to not charge her with any crime. It looks to me, though, as if she remains a suspect, strong suspect in this case. Now, how do we solve this case? I think this case is very solvable, and it helps that you have one of the persons responsible already in prison. But I don't know if this dude Williams is ever going to talk, if he's going to spend the rest of his life in prison. He doesn't want to be labeled a snitch. So how do you solve this case? I think it's. There's three easy answers here. One or all three could lead you to the answers you're seeking. One is, as we've said a couple times in this case, subpoena all the phone records, Right. At the very least, you need Johnny's. Sam Williams, Tiffany Williams, Anthony Watson, and Alexander Cuzineau. And probably Fat Zach's as well, and Lisa Straub's. If you had all those phone records and you put them together, cut and paste those babies and put them into sequential order, you might have a much more clear understanding of that night. The other Per the other item that I would work heavily on if I'm an investigator, is identifying this individual that is referred to as dro. We don't know this person's real name, but he comes up multiple times from multiple different sources when people are talking to police droid. Even Anthony Watson said that DRO may have been one of the people responsible. Do you know his real name? No. Now, look, I'm just. I'm just some dude sitting in a garage. But here's where I go with this. DRO we know, is slang for good marijuana or pot. I know this by my limited knowledge of rap music. Right. Dro is used by people like Eminem, 50 Cent, Kanye west, and the late and great Nate Dog and many, many more. So could DRO be referenced to somebody that has really good weed that's selling really good stuff in 2011, 2010? The other thing, too, that I would push on is Drew Warren. We know, per the court records and per conversations with detectives, that Tiffany Williams hung out with an individual named Drew Warren that night. When we're talking about nicknames, DRO doesn't sound like too far of a stretch from Drew to me.
- [76:17]
Captain (Co-host)
No.
- [76:20]
Nick (Host)
And then the final thing here, Captain, is obvious. The obvious. Identify the other DNA evidence found at the scene, per reports. I don't know the exact number, but it's been reported heavily that about a dozen, to possibly even as high as two dozen people have submitted their DNA. DNA when asked by police. And we know that the persons that submitted DNA, they don't match the DNA of the perpetrators that was found at the crime scene. We also know that that when they checked it with codis, the only two names that came back was Pat Away and Williams. And they charged both of them. One of them is in prison.
- [76:56]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [76:57]
Nick (Host)
So it's identifying these other sources of DNA. Now, we know that the DNA didn't come from Alexandra Cousino. Do we let her off the hook? Not so fast, my friend. I think that she could still be on the hook for this and. And not have left her DNA at the scene. Or if she did, they didn't find it at the scene. If she's involved, you're going to need other persons to turn on her. And police haven't moved off of her fully yet. She's gone on to commit some pretty terrible crimes or be accused of committing some other possible crimes.
- [77:32]
Captain (Co-host)
Well, and also in this case, you get too many people involved. You get people starting to talk just because they feel like they're safe or that law enforcement can't get to them, and the streets will get to you. And we've seen that already happen and take place in this case.
- [77:51]
Nick (Host)
Well, and I want to throw out a challenge to the Lucas County Sheriff's Department, who were the lead on this case. I do think they did a lot of good work in this case, especially when it came to rounding up some individuals and questioning them. We know that they did good work by calling in BCI to secure the scene and come up with physical evidence and forensics in this case that ultimately led to an arrest and a conviction. But I. Here's the thing. Lucas county, when Sam Williams sits there and he answers all those questions, he talks to you that whole damn time. He believes, I'm smarter than these cops. And you thought that when you told him, we found your DNA at the scene, he would crack and he had sing like a bird. And he didn't. He sat there and he still denied knowing anybody, denied ever being there. And so we sit here all of these years later, and he does look like the smart one, because here's where the case stands. The police know, based off of the physical evidence, that other individuals were there that night and responsible for what happened to these two young people. They are not locked up. None of those other people are locked up. So Williams was smarter that day. And you're letting. Until you lock up those other individuals, you're letting him win. He's beat you. Alexandra Cousino, who you interviewed multiple times, and she sits there acting like she's smarter than the detectives. If she was involved, she outsmarted you. And I'm challenging the Lucas County Sheriff's Office to solve this case 100%, because what they have said publicly, they're talking out of both sides of their mouths, and I don't like it. In 2021, Mike Navarre, the Lucas County Sheriff, says to the families, publicly says to the families of Lisa and Johnny that he and his office are committed to getting justice for their loved ones, to solving this case and bringing all that are responsible and holding them responsible. That's not happened. We're over two years later after that statement. That's not happened. The other statement that's come out, though, Captain. Well, do the genealogy research on the DNA that you collected at the scene of the. Of the perpetrators of the suspects. And the Lucas County Sheriff's Office has said, we don't have the funds for that. We can't afford to do that. So you're going to let the bad guys win over something as silly as money? You know, you. You point out to the public. Plenty of times these poor kids were killed for $45 or. Or less than $200 or whatever it was. You reference money. You reference there not being a safe in the house. And maybe money was the motive. And now we're re. Now we're referencing money as an excuse that this thing has not been solved completely.
- [80:55]
Captain (Co-host)
Well, it's not just justice for the family or the justice for the victims, but it's also. These are. These individuals that were involved in this crime are animals, and they need to be pulled off the streets, not in the society. Because if they're. If they're in society, there's a chance that this would happen again to other victims over basically nothing. And you can't afford the funding. Well, there's organizations that will help you get the funding.
- [81:30]
Nick (Host)
This kind of. This kind of work, Captain, would take approximately six to eight grand per profile. So if there were three other individuals involved, we're talking at most, even conservatively, let's. On the higher end, about $25,000 to completely solve this thing. And, and here's. That's not a whole lot of money. And I get it. Different counties have different funding for different investigations and different resources. So I'm not faulting them for not having the resources. I'm faulting them for what you just said, not accepting the help of others that can help you clear that hurdle of not having the funding. And who were these others individuals? Cece Moore, world renowned genetic genealogist who publicly offered up her services to Lucas county to help them solve this mystery of the unknown DNA profiles that were found. To this day, Lucas County's not taking her up on that offer. We know that she solved some of the. Some very big, high profile cases in this country. She's offering to help you with her services, and that's not been taken. So you don't need funds for CC Moore. Okay, and then on top of it, Captain points out, yes, there are groups. Okay, so we have. Toledo Cares is an advocacy group. It's a community group that works with law enforcement to assist in bringing justice to murder victims and their families. They're a pro police organization in the Toledo community for the past seven decades. This isn't just something that was born 10 minutes ago. Seven decades, they've. They've been a part of the Toledo community. Toledo Cares has agreed to use their considerable local and national connections to help offer additional resources in this case, in this investigation. And I can tell you this, true crime garage, we have offered our assistance in several other cases. Yes, Does a lot of that come through the Porchlight project? Of course, but that's several, at least three Ohio cases that we've positively identified DNA through the Porch Light project.
- [83:46]
Captain (Co-host)
Well, and we know for a fact
- [83:48]
Nick (Host)
in a couple of these cases, sorry, in a couple of these cases, True Crime Garage damn near funded the whole entirety of the case. And we're currently working, sorry, we're currently working with law enforcement in an out of state case. So now you have CC Moore, Toledo Cares, True Crime Garage. I know that you have wtol, the news station up there that have, have continued to broadcast this story even all of these years later, who have attempted to rally the troops and get the community involved. This does not have to be Lucas County Sheriff's Office going this alone, this, this, we've rallied the troops. It's a whole community that wants to help Lucas County Sheriff's office solved this thing. And guess what? At the end of the day, we help you, Lucas county, we help you, Sheriff's office. And you get to stand up at the podium and you get to take all of the praise for solving this case once you finally do it.
- [84:57]
Captain (Co-host)
Yeah. And when the, and when the crispy colonel is saying true Crime Garage, it's not just the colonel and the captain, it's all the amazing listeners that have donated to the port site project. And if they came to us and said, well, it's going to be this much money, we'd do a call to action. And we know that we have the support of the listeners that would raise that money and then justice would be served, not just for the victims and the families, but for that community and for the whole state of Ohio.
- [85:33]
Nick (Host)
The beer fund has put many a cold beer in the old garage fridge, but it's also sent a lot of dollars to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. It's provided a canine dog, a canine officer for a jurisdiction, a sheriff's department down in the great state of Florida. It's identified several victims and suspects and perpetrators of crimes through the Porch Light project. And as said, we're now working with law enforcement on an out of state case as well. So every dollar counts and we're making sure that it counts. And it doesn't just go to the garage fridge all the time. Look, anybody with information in this case, please come forward. There's still some puzzle pieces that need to be sorted out. In this case, I believe it's very solvable. We've pointed out the reasons why it's solvable and how it can be solved. So if you have information, and this is one thing we need to talk about here, just briefly before we let everybody go here, Captain, is that when you have a homicide investigation, time is a detective's enemy in the early stages of the investigation. Time was certainly the enemy for detectives in this case as well. Had they had that DNA evidence days or a couple weeks after the murders rather than eight months later, they may have had a different line of questioning when they were talking to all of these individuals. Time is the enemy for a case when it's fresh, when it's new, cold cases, time is a detective's friend. And that is because people change, lifestyles change, living situations change. People may not be afraid of somebody today that they were afraid of in 2011 or 2012.
- [87:21]
Captain (Co-host)
Right.
- [87:22]
Nick (Host)
And one thing that has changed significantly in this case, a very violent, dangerous individual, Samuel Williams, is locked up for good. They threw away the damn key. He ain't getting out. So if he was stopping or his presence or the fear of Sam Williams was stopping you or preventing you from talking before, you don't have to worry about him no more. You can go to the police and you can tell them, look, this is why I didn't come forward, because I was afraid for my life. Nobody's going to blame you for that now. So if anybody out there has information, please come forward. Please tell us what you know. Please call Crime Stoppers at 419-255-1111. Or you can call the detectives bureau at 419-213-4917. Or if you don't want to talk to law enforcement, you can reach out to True Crime Garage. Our contact information is on our website. You can also reach out to a person that was very valuable in helping us put together this case. His name is Brian Duggar. He's somebody that True Crime Garage worked with on the Nancy Eagleson case. He's a brilliant investigative reporter for WTOL. And you can reach Brian at B Duggar D U G G E R@WTOL.com.
- [88:48]
Captain (Co-host)
I want to thank you so much for joining us here in the Garage each and every week. And thanks for sharing our show on social media. Do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this week?
- [89:01]
Nick (Host)
Captain? We are recommending it came from Ohio by James Renner. A little Halloween action for you, if you will. Good for Halloween. So turn on the nightlight, lock your door and close the window blinds. Join investigative reporter James Renner as he looks into 13 tales of mysterious, creepy and unexplained events. All from the Buckeye State, including the giant Loveland frog, the bloodthirsty melon heads of Kirtland, and the Werewolf of Defiance. Don't forget about the Mothman of the Ohio river and the UFO that inspired Close Encounters of the Third Kind and many more. Check out It Came From Ohio. You'll find that great title and many more on our recommended page@truecrimegarage.com and until
- [89:47]
Captain (Co-host)
next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
- [90:00]
Nick (Host)
Sa. So good, so good, so good.
- [90:30]
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