Missing on Campus /// Judy Martins /// Part 2

Summary

TRUE CRIME GARAGE – "Missing on Campus /// Judy Martins /// Part 2"
Released: July 8, 2026
Hosts: Nic & The Captain

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Episode Overview

In this second part of their in-depth coverage, Nic and the Captain continue to unravel the mysterious 1978 disappearance of Judy Martins, a college student who vanished from campus under enigmatic circumstances. The hosts dissect the police response, persistent rumors, suspects, dead ends, and the long-lasting impact of the case. The discussion weaves together original investigation documents, rumors of serial killers, false leads, and the latest in missing persons research with the hosts’ signature mix of serious analysis and sharp banter.

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Key Discussion Points and Timeline

Early Investigation: Delayed Response and Initial Efforts

[03:38 – 06:43]

• The investigation started late, with meaningful actions only taken a week after Judy's disappearance.
• Police reviewed radio logs, vehicle registrations, and spoke to officers on duty; nobody reported seeing anything unusual.
• Security officer Matt Strope said he knew Judy as someone who often rode her blue ten-speed bike late at night.
  • Notably, he described her as sometimes "dressed in hooker's attire" and associating with individuals tied to drugs.
• Search efforts included checking campus buildings, the bike room (her bike was never recovered), and questioning students.
• LARGE searches of the woods and surrounding areas were conducted.
  • Nic remarks: "They're coming up with nothing here." ([06:43])

Missing Bike & Search Radius

[06:43 – 08:36]

• The bike remains a mystery, as it was Judy’s main mode of campus transportation but never found.
• Law enforcement seemed to regard it as less crucial after time had passed, but the hosts believe the missing bike could have broadened the possible radius of disappearance.
  • The Captain: "Where's this bike at? Why can't we find this bike?" ([06:43])

Revisiting Witness Statements: Contradictions & Polygraphs

[09:53 – 12:11]

• Police re-interview Judy's known contacts from the night she vanished, including John Beckone and Jim Kratchik.
• John Beckone changed parts of his story about Judy retrieving her belongings from his dorm.
• Kratchik consents to search and polygraph; no evidence found.
  • Nic: "People agreeing to a polygraph doesn’t mean they were administered right away..." ([12:11])

False Sightings: Garage Sale and Hitchhiker Reports

[12:12 – 13:23, 25:36 – 26:56]

• Tipsters report a Judy lookalike at a garage sale saying she planned to hitchhike to South America or Mexico.
• Another man, Jeff, picked up a hitchhiker who claimed similar plans.
• Judy’s sister, Nancy, investigates and determines the woman was not Judy.
• Police ultimately identify the garage sale customer and the hitchhiker as a woman named Lori Gumbinder; both tips are debunked.

The Ex-Boyfriend: Jim Young’s Role

[14:30 – 19:18]

• Jim Young is thoroughly investigated. He owns firearms, but at the time Judy went missing, all his guns were in police custody.
• He claims Judy was occasionally impulsive but would not flee without a trace.
• Nic observes: “For him to state that, it’s almost eliminating an out that he might have if he, in fact, did do something bad..." ([16:34])
• Jim Young passes a BCI-conducted polygraph and is progressively ruled out—due to distance, lack of evidence, and cooperative behavior.
  • The Captain: "...the distance. And also I like the fact that he is the one that points out look, she's not somebody to run away." ([18:24])

Strange Leads: Psychics and Anonymous Tips

[19:18 – 26:10]

• Detective Jamerson from the Portage County Sheriff’s Office investigates an anonymous tip phoned to a radio station, which claims Judy is buried at Towner’s Woods, near a burned-down cabin.
• Another man, Jack Gray, suspiciously hangs around campus boasting about "doing something bad" in Towner's Woods.
• The tip is traced to John Edmonds, who claims psychic powers. He leads police to the site, but nothing is found.
• Example of 1970s investigation grasping at all leads—no matter how strange.

The Serial Killer Theories

[33:47 – 40:17]

• Ted Bundy rumored as a possible perpetrator due to his MO and victim profile.
  • The Captain: “...she looks so much like his typical victim.” ([33:47])
  • Timeline and victim behavior rule him out; Bundy was incarcerated during Judy's disappearance.
• Local serial killer William John Posey Jr. also examined; he lived nearby and killed college-aged women.
  • Potentially in jail that night; law enforcement believe he would have confessed had he killed Judy.
• "John T. Scorpioni" highlighted as a fake name Posey used.

False Hope: The "Judy Martinez" Incident

[43:25 – 49:17]

• Five years later, a woman fitting Judy’s description is found in Cleveland, arrested as “Judy Martinez,” claimed to have the same birthmark and similar features.
• Family involvement, dental records, and mounting evidence ultimately establish it was not Judy.
  • Nic: “…her mom or dad or brother or sister. This is where it gets even more wild.” ([44:24])
• Notable moment: Dental records disproved identity, despite similar handwriting and circumstantial resemblance.
  • The Captain (on handwriting experts): “This is junk science. Rant’s over.” ([47:24])
• Judy’s mother, Dolores, moves past initial hopes: “...there was a good soul, there was a good child inside of that woman, and I feel bad for her...” ([48:58])

Reflections on Addiction

[49:17 – 50:06]

• The hosts discuss empathy for those whose lives spiral due to addiction, using the “Judy Martinez” case as an example of how circumstances can devastate lives.

The Reality Check: Local Doers, Not Notorious Killers

[50:06 – 60:11]

• Both hosts agree: The killer is almost certainly someone in Judy’s circle on campus that evening—not a notorious serial killer or someone far afield.
  • Nic: “Whoever is responsible for her going missing, their name is in this file.” ([50:06])
• Serial killers (Bundy, Posey, Sam Little) are all dismissed with research and timeline checks.
• Cross-references with other local missing person cases (Yvonne Regler, Kathy Morrow) establish the area’s broader context.
• The hosts praise the research and value of the Charlie Project, encouraging listeners to support it.

Frustration and Final Theories

[56:32 – 60:11]

• No witness saw Judy after she left the male dorm. The simplest solution is most likely: one of the last people to see her is responsible.
• The opportunity to conceal the crime effectively aided the perpetrator(s).
  • Nic: “...the answer is obvious and it’s right there in front of you... Those individuals that by their own admission said they were the last to see her—that’s where to look.” ([58:47])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Where’s this bike at? Why can’t we find this bike?” – The Captain ([06:43])
• “He goes, but she is spontaneous.” – The Captain reflecting on Jim Young’s assessment of Judy ([16:31])
• “It sounds to me like confirmation that he was the caller. They go to this spot in Towner's woods, and of course, they don't locate Judy Martin's buried anywhere at that point.” – Nic on the psychic tipster ([23:30])
• “This is junk science. Rant’s over.” – The Captain on handwriting analysis and polygraphs ([47:24])
• “Whoever is responsible for her going missing, their name is in this file.” – Nic ([50:06])
• “At the end of the day here, Captain, what we have here is a case that is over 40 years old. Nobody...believes that Judy Martins is alive and left on her own and started a new life somewhere.” – Nic ([50:06])
• “Those individuals that by their own admission said that they were the last ones to see her that night. One of them or some of them are responsible for this.” – Nic ([58:47])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------| | Opening beats to case review | 03:38 | | Review of search efforts & missing bike | 04:16–08:36 | | Contradictory witness statements & polygraphs | 09:53–12:11 | | False sightings/hitchhiker/garage sale | 12:12–13:23; 25:36–26:56 | | Jim Young interrogation & elimination | 14:30–19:18 | | Strange psychic tipster story | 19:18–26:10 | | Serial killer speculation (Bundy/Posey) | 33:47–40:17 | | “Judy Martinez” mistaken identity | 43:25–49:17 | | Final analysis & what remains | 50:06–60:11 |

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Tone & Style

True Crime Garage blends thorough research and respect for victims with the easy rapport, sarcasm, and unfiltered humor of Nic and the Captain. The tone remains respectful but unvarnished, with practical skepticism about “junk science” and “junk leads,” empathy for victims and those struggling with addiction, and a recurring reminder to focus on facts, not sensational rumors.

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Conclusion

This episode weaves together the tragic mystery of Judy Martins with the sometimes-chaotic realities of campus policing, misleads, and the tenacity required by investigators, family, and advocates. The hosts argue convincingly that answers lie close to campus and among Judy's last companions, not in wild rumors or serial killer lore. They urge ongoing support for missing persons research and for remembering Judy Martins not just as another case, but as a lost young woman whose story still demands resolution.

Transcript

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[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always, is a man that together we would like to point out that whether you are a glass half empty or a glass half full person, don't worry because here in the garage we offer free refills. Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

And we also offer free kicks to the Nuts. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Today we are still trying to tame the Hellcat from Brewdog. Iron Maiden fans, check it out. More importantly, Brewdog fans, check it out. Hellcat is light, crisp, malty and hoppy with some notes of grapefruit peel. Garage Grade three and three quarter bottle caps out of five. Hollowed be thy name. And cheers to our friends right here. First up, big cheers to Gareth and Olive in the Zero Crime Hound house.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Big shout out to Christy in Hartford, Wisconsin.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And an even bigger shout out to Eric in Calistoga, California.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

And an even bigger shout out than that Veronica in Hearst, Texas.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And a much larger shout out than that one goes out to Tom in Lancaster, United Kingdom. And last but certainly not least, the biggest of the shout outs to Mirka listening in Minneapolis. Everyone we just mentioned, well they were our friends this week because they filled up that old beer fridge and for that we thank you.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah BW Double O Win Beer Run. People always ask me what's the best way to support the show.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Hey Captain, what's the best way to support the show.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

You shutting your mouth.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Shut your damn.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Go to the website, buy something for yourself so you can look snazzy. You support the show and get something in return. And that is enough of the business.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

All right, everybody gather around. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Yesterday we spoke of some of the things that did not take place early on in the investigation into missing college campus student Judy Martin's case.

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Today.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Let's start off by talking about some of the things that was done in the early parts of the investigation were done. However, this is after she's been missing for seven days. On May 31, a review of the radio log and vehicle registrations run that night are made. Officers are spoken to who were working on the night in question. Nothing out of the ordinary is reported. Security officer Matt Strope is spoken with. He can't remember anything unusual from that night. He did report that he is familiar with Ms. Martin and that she is prone to travel in late night hours riding a light blue ten speed bicycle. Strope also stated that she was supposedly dressed in hooker's attire. Again, his words mar on numerous occasions and was seen with males associated with the drug culture. The Lilac House Commons and Taylor Hill area were searched with negative results. Officers investigated the following. They checked those radio logs, vehicle registrations and checked for student status at that time. The student security aid incident reports for May 23rd and 24th were all checked. All vehicles passing the Midway and Theater intersections were stopped on this day and questioned to see if they saw anything strange on the 23rd or the 24th. The bike room at Engelman hall was checked for a blue male 10 speed bike, the one that Judy would have owned. Never found. Taylor hall architecture students were monitored for anyone who may have been there on May 23rd, 24th, and they checked the roof of Dunbar, the boiler room and all exterior entrances. A ground search from Dunbar to Engelman was conducted at this time. So we're seeing ground searches here, Captain, we're seeing that they're searching the buildings, they're checking anything that could be some kind of paper trail to either find and locate Judy or to find or locate someone that may have seen something or heard something or somebody that should be a suspect in this case. They're coming up with nothing here.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, a couple things. College, these guys. She's known to be seen with guys in the drug scene. It's college. The whole place is the drug scene. Where's this bike at? Why can't we find this bike?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

The bike to Me has always been a big question. This was her, you know, mode of transportation while on campus. The bike, from my understanding, has never been recovered. In fact, that was one of the questions that I asked law enforcement when we spoke with them. Has the bike ever been recovered? And they said no. But part of that, though, too, they kind of said that the bike, to them, is not of great concern. Not 40 years later it would have been back then. And they said, yes, it would have been nice to have located that bike. But they wonder that with her missing, we don't know where the last place she left the bike would be. If it was under lock and key, of course it would have been found. But it could be simply somebody stole a bike or simply someone took the

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

bike, they should know where it's at.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

I think the reason why it's not of great importance to them all these years later is because of that night and the stories that they have from witnesses. Some of them suspect, some of them not. But independent witnesses that say that she was not using the bike that night.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, but here's my problem. When you say she had about a football field to two football field lengths to go back home, that's enough to get on your bike. But then once you put that individual on the bike, then to me, the radius in which you need to search is a lot further away because she has the capability of, oh, if I'm. If she wanted to go a couple miles down the street to a bar or something, she obviously has the means to do so.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Detectives in law enforcement will spend the following day conducting more of their investigation. And part of the day starts off with them calling everyone in Judy's address book. No new information was gathered from those calls. Now, detectives physically searched wooded areas that surrounded the university. A dozen security aides assisted in this search. So they have multiple detectives, along with, at least according to the statement, a dozen security aides that are helping with this search. From my understanding, from what I've been told, Captain, is that the grounds, the campus, looks much different today than it did back then. And from my understanding is that you could walk 20 yards in one direction from some of these dorm buildings and be entering the woods or be right in the middle of a wooded area

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

and a lot more lights.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Now, they also searched Dunbar, Prentiss and Engelman hall and all the wooded areas that surrounded the health center. And across from Manchester Hall, I guess there's a coal dump area off of Rhodes Road, R H O D E S Road that was searched as well on that day.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

But like you stated, Judy, she went to the all boys dorm room and there was at least five individuals that we know spoke with her. So where are we at on questioning them?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

You're right, Captain, because now's the point where you've spoke with them at least once or twice before. Now, you need to follow up on those interviews because maybe someone hasn't been truthful or maybe somebody remembered something of importance from that night. So they speak with John Beckone again, and this time he says that Judy came back to his room later that night, at some point that night, and she retrieved portions of her outfit that she was wearing that night. The glasses, the wig, and I believe, the trench coat. But the, the statement there, it's hard to read. So it's, it's tough for me to translate what, what that other word is. But at least his statement says that she came back to his dorm, retrieved the glasses and the wig, and she put them back on and then left. This is interesting here because this actually contradicts his statement that he gave to them before. Remember, he says the slight variation being that he, with a friend, left to go to 711 and that he gave these items to her before they left, before he and the friend left. We also have Jim Kratchik who is interviewed again. And in this interview, he's basically saying all the same stuff. He does say that he signs a voluntary consent to have his car and his room searched. And they do follow up on this, and they say that no signs of violence or any evidence was found in, in either of his vehicle or his room at this time. He does agree to take a polygraph. Now, we've mentioned polygraph several times already in this investigation and throughout our story. And what I want to point out here is there are a lot of people that do end up taking polygraphs. What we are seeing in the initial portion of this investigation, Captain, is people agreeing to a polygraph. So when we say that someone agreed to a polygraph, that doesn't mean that they were immediately sat down and administered the test right then and there, or even that same day.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Right?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Here's where we come to another interesting and kind of strange portion or event in our timeline. This is on June 2, 1978. So she's been missing for over a week at this point. And the report that police get is that Judy allegedly was reported to be at a garage sale. And while she's at the garage sale, hey, little, little bit of self promotion here. We're always having a garage [e-mail] Click

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

on the store page.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Judy is allegedly at this garage sale. She's speaking with the homeowners that are conducting the sale. And she tells them that she was thinking about going to South America or to Mexico. And also mentions hitchhiking. Maybe that's going to be her method of getting to South America or Mexico. And she was purchasing some garments, some clothing items for this trip. Or at least the people holding the garage sale believed that's why she was purchasing these items.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Again, just like the other eyewitness that thought he saw her get into a vehicle, these individuals didn't know Judy personally.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

That's correct. They only know of her because of the missing person's case in the flyers and the news that's in the newspapers. Later that same day, a man named Jeff reported to police that he picked up a girl that he saw walking on May 31. She was out hitchhiking. Jeff says he does not know this girl's name, but he picked her up, offered her a ride, and states that he took her to Taco Fiesta, sounds like a restaurant and Main Street. And she stated during the course of this car ride that she was going to get some shots so that she could go to Mexico or South America. This is interesting because it's kind of, it's in line with the garage sale story. But again, we don't know that it means that it's actually Judy or not. But now we have the garage sale people and this Jeff guy coming forward independently of one another, both saying that they believe they may have spoke to and seen Judy after she supposedly had disappeared.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

But let's go back to her on again, off again boyfriend, Jim Young.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Jim Young. On this day, Captain, on June 2, he is interviewed at Avon Lake Police Department. And they, they tape the interview. From this interview, they learn more about Mr. Jim Young. And during the interview, he does consent to searches of his car and his apartment, which were later conducted. And they report negative results, meaning they found nothing of evidentiary value in either search. But during this interview, Captain Jim Young tells the police, because he's asked during this interview, do you own any firearms? And he says, yes, I own several firearms. But apparently shortly before Judy's disappearance, he shot out the window of his apartment. Like accidentally fired the gun or the gun went off and it shot out his window.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Now he tells them, I own several firearms. And you, the police should know that because after I accidentally shot out my window, you confiscated all of my guns because I have a pending trial for this incident. So all of his guns were in police custody at the time that Judy went missing. He also states that he does not have any knowledge of Judy using any hard drugs. Young also states that Judy told him that she was seeing someone at Kent State who was in ROTC and that he was a nice guy, but did not know the name of this individual. One thing that I find interesting here, too, Captain, is that Jim Young also states to police and detectives that he wouldn't think that Judy would run away, that she would take off on her own. He said, yeah, she was impulsive at times and she would like to do, you know, fun or wild things at times.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

He goes, but she is spontaneous.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

That was not her personality, is what he was saying, that. That he. That she wouldn't just take off. And I find that interesting because he is very much considered a suspect at that time. And for him to state that, it's almost eliminating an out that he might have if he, in fact did do something bad, that if he is responsible in any way for her disappearance.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, same with the hard drugs.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

But a key thing here, we've talked about polygraph tests, and please don't throw tomatoes or eggs at me. We. We all have the same suspicions of these tests. But it should be noted when we are going to talk about these, that Jim Young took a polygraph test, and he actually took his polygraph test at bci.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So at the BCI office, there's. If you want to set a bar high, it would be tough to set it any higher than that for portions of Ohio.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, I think one of the main reasons why me and you don't like him as a. As the number one suspect would be the distance away.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, he may not have an alibi for that night. He says that he was home. It was. It was the middle of the week. He said he was home doing normal stuff. He had to work that day, work the next morning. He said, I don't really have anybody that can verify that I was at home, because I was at home by myself. But according to bci, he passes the polygraph test. And as you just pointed out, Captain, he's at minimum an hour's drive away where we have several individuals by their own admissions, that they were there with her that night close to the time that she magically disappears. So it's just another obstacle that gets in the way to make him a suspect of any priority over these others.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

So normally I like the boyfriend or the ex lover to be looked at pretty hard, but I think in this case the distance. And also I like the fact that he is the one that points out look, she's not somebody to run away. To me if you want to, if you're guilty you're going to go, you're going to throw out the kitchen sink. Well, she could have ran away with this other guy. She could have. She always wanted to live in Chicago, you know, just make up a bunch of random stories to get the cops looking all over the place.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And he's very cooperative with the investigation, it seems to me. I get the impression that this is a guy that did care for her at one time, probably still cared for her and he's just trying to help.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

I think he's the closest to being ruled out but obviously they're not ruling out individuals in this the case.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Are you ready for some more strange?

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

In the timeline this I for some strange. Yeah. To me this is one of the more bizarre points in the or events in the timeline. On June 2, Detective Ross Jamerson of the this, this is weird because now we're going to see a whole different agency. We've talked about Avon Lake Police Department, the Kent State Police Department. This, when you have this kind of case going on, this is receiving some media attention. And what it looks like to me reviewing the file here Captain, is that we have people that want to help, that they see something or hear something, they want to pass along the informations to the proper channels. They just don't know who to report it to. So now we're going to see a third agency get involved. And this is Detective Jamerson of the Portage County Sheriff's Office who calls to advise that Daryl Dunlop, their dispatcher at the Sheriff's office received a call from WHLO Radio, that's a radio station that's still around today from my understanding, advising that they received an anonymous call from a male caller who stated that Judy Martins could be located buried under a stack of pine branches a quarter of a mile from a burned down cabin at Pippin Lake. This would be in Towners woods park area in Brady Lake off of Ravenna Road. Detective Jamerson also stated that an individual named Jack Gray has been hanging around campus and the courthouse in Ravenna talking about Towner's woods in and that this Jack Gray said that he had done something bad in Towner's Woods. So the sheriff's office is calling to report two things. These are, I don't want them to get mixed together. These are two different things. There's an anonymous caller that called into A radio station claiming to know where Judy was buried. And also there's this weirdo guy who's hanging around the campus or in the courthouse, and he's saying that he had done something bad in Towner's Woods. And so this is just this detective doing his due diligence, pointing out like this anonymous call came in. We're not saying it's from this Jack Gray.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

We're simply saying that we also have an individual that said he did something bad in Towners woods, which is similar. You know, generally it's the same location as where this anonymous caller is saying you would find the body of our missing individual.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, with technology and some. A little bit of police work, maybe they're able to identify this anonymous caller.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, and what was great to, Captain, was the DJ that took the call, the anonymous call did try to pry some information from the caller, is that,

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

hey, hey, what's your 20? Hey, we're playing rock and roll all night.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

WNBC.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

WNBC.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So they interview the DJ and they talk with anybody that they can talk to at the radio station.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

His name was Rock and Roll Ralph.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And they said that the anonymous caller, while they didn't give their name or refused to give their name, did provide an address. Now, of course, the caller could just be throwing out somebody else's address, but they tracked down the address to an individual that they kind of knew or that one of the police agencies somewhat new to a John Edmonds. Now, his name is actually reported differently in a couple different spots. Some places he's John Edwards, but the majority of the time is John Edmonds. I think that's just a typo that it was, in fact John Edmonds. Police kind of knew who this guy was. And I think it's because he's. He's out there, man. And so the detectives learn, they go to this address. The. The address that was given belongs to this John Edmonds. And he claims to have psychic powers. Power possible.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

You never know.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

You never know. The other description that they get from the DJ was that the caller was described as sounding fairly old and maybe having respiratory problems. They don't ever state anything about John Edmonds having respiratory problems or if he sounded to be old, but he was not an old individual at the time of them going and speaking with him. He agrees to take them to a location in Towner's Woods. What I'm getting at here, Captain, is while the caller could have just given some fictitious address, it sounds to me like when you go to the address and the guy's like, yeah, I have psychic powers. And, yes, I'll go to that spot with you in the woods. That sounds to me like confirmation that he was the caller. They go to this spot in Towner's woods, and of course, they don't locate Judy Martin's buried anywhere at that point. But this John Edmonds, to his credit, seems to be cooperative, you know, regardless of his. His situation. That same day, Nancy Martens, remember, this is Judy's younger sister. She calls the police department, and she says that she went and spoke with the couple that was hosting the garage sale and had a long conversation with them. And they talked about the girl that could be her sister being at the garage sale. And this girl wanted to go to Mexico or South America. Now, Nancy said after having this long conversation with those two individuals, she believed that they were, in fact, trying to help and that they probably did see and have the conversation that they said they had. But things that they stated about the person that they spoke with at the garage sale, she's telling police, like, this wasn't my sister. It may have looked like her. She may have been about the same age, but there were things that they were telling me about this person that do not line up with my sister.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Some good news in this investigation. They are able to locate the individual that they believe was at that garage sale.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

The mystery garage sale customer. Yes. On June 5th, Detective Brandon located a female named Lori Gumbinder. She is the subject seen at the garage sale by the Snyders. They were the ones hosting. And the girl. This was also confirmed that Jeff, remember, he gave somebody a ride, a hitchhiker, a ride. When shown a picture of this Lori individual. He agrees. Yes, that's. Yes. Not only was she the one at the garage sale, but she's also the girl that I picked up, the young lady that I picked up.

[Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So she was located and spoken with. And this was some good detective work, because what he did was he went to a location where you would go to get your photo taken for. For a passport. So he goes there with pictures of Judy Martin saying, hey, have you seen anybody that looks like her or her that came in here to get a passport so that they could go to Mexico or South America. That's how he ends up tracking down this individual. So Nancy Martins, the younger sister, her suspicions were confirmed that it was not her sister at the garage sale that day.

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[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

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[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

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[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

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[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

To the windows.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

To the walls.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Cheers everybody. Cheers to you Colonel. So much more. More twists to get into in the Judy Martins case.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

The case just keeps getting stranger and stranger as we go along here, but nice to get some answers along the way.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, let me throw out something for you and one of the things that was interesting in this case was, you know, she went missing in 78. This is around the time the world would know a certain individual or come to know a certain individual. Ted Bundy, A lot of people when she first went missing, there was rumors flying around because here's this guy that he went to college. He would have been traveling all over the country possibly. And is it possible? Because she looks so much like his typical victim. But one of the things that you pointed out because you're the goat is most if not all, if not all victims of Ted Bundy were found.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And if it's your lunch break or breakfast time, cover your ears, people. Because his victims were found simply because he didn't bury them. He didn't bury them because he would return and do things with the body.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Have sex with it.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

That's right. And so that all kind of makes sense. And that's why I feel like we can't really place him in this area at that time of the night in question. And there was one individual that again, we don't know. We'd have to see hardcore evidence of this. But one individual at least that states that Bundy was probably locked up or was in fact locked up at that time, which seems accurate to me. He did have some ties to Pennsylvania, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he could be in the area or passing through the area. And of course, a lot of his victims were in fact college aged students.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah. And he would have been serving time in 78. In serving time in Florida.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Oh, this was after the Florida.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

So this would have been.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah. So he, it's not Bundy then. We can. Sounds like we can put a, a bow on that one.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, put a bow on Bundy and also ban the tan sedan.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And I think too here Captain Bundy makes an interesting leap to another serial killer who has been thought of or actually two other serial killers who have been considered as suspects or persons of interest in this case. The first being a William John Posey Jr. He's of significant interest to me and to this case because he is a serial killer. Known, identified serial killer of two women, or some say at least two women. And he was also known to be living in the Kent area at this time.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

All right, that's interesting.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Back in 78, in fact, in one article, he lived a 10 minute drive from the college campus and was found hiding in the bedroom closet of a woman who he did not know or who did not know him in Kent. And this is according to assistant Chief of Police John Peach.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

So a couple issues with this individual. One, same as Bundy, is we don't even know. Yes, he had an apartment not that far, blocks away from campus. But that doesn't mean he was in the area at the time. And there are some reports, not confirmed, but that there's some reports that he was actually in jail that night in Columbus, Ohio.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah. So the statement is that he was locked up at least in the afternoon or evening hours of May 24, 1978. I don't know when he went into lockup or into the jail, but they have confirmation that he was in jail at that time. So that would be an issue for him to get rid of this body if he was involved in the disappearance that took place in the early morning hours of May 24th. The other thing with Posey that I found very interesting in regards or he's

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

in Columbus getting rid of the body.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

That's true. Good point. Uh, one thing that I find interesting about Posey, though, and this is coming from law enforcement, they firmly believe, and of course nothing's 100% until this case is solved, but they firmly believe that had Posey killed Judy Martins, that he would have told them. So he confessed. The two murders that he committed, he confessed to both of them. And, and in one case, he tried to lead them to the body that's never been recovered. And I think that's another suspicion that people on the outside have that go. Well, not only did he kill two college aged females, but in one case the body was never recovered. And that's what we have here in Judy's case. So that's the similarities. But for me, I think that's where the similarities end. Because one of the murders, Captain, he was suspected of and actually convicted of the kidnapping of this young woman, never convicted of having killed her. It was him, it was Posey who went out of his way when he was diagnosed to be terminally ill. He reached out to law enforcement and said, by the way, I did kill this young woman and this is how I did it, this is where I did it, this is why I did it, and I will lead you to her body. And those officials have stated outwardly that this man, yes, he was a murderer. He's a horrible individual, but he was trying to get right with God before he died. He wanted to confess to everything that he had done. He wanted to try to wipe the slate clean, if you will.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, and you know me, I don't like to trust guys that use fake names. But what was the fake name he Used.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

I knew you were going to put me on the spot and try to make me pronounce.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

You say it, not me.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

It looks like if I were to spell this, it almost looks like Scorpion, but it looks like he was using the name John T. Scorpini or Scorpioni.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Scorpioni. Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

But it looks like a Scorpioni because

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

he had a little weenie.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

It looks to me almost like the word Scorpion with an. With a few extra vowels in it.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Here's where things get a little more crazy. If they weren't crazy enough for you yet, if you're. If your head's not spinning like a top, then there's something. You have your own issues.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Here's the problem with this case is when you first hear, you go, okay, well, there's not a lot of evidence, and there's not. But the speculation and the twists and turns around what we don't know. There's a lot there.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

There's certainly a lot. And to pile it on more, we have this really great article that ran about the case in August of 1983. And anybody that. That's able to locate this or want some more information on this case, this would be the first place that I direct them to. It's an August 7th article in the Plain Dealer of 1983. And it was a magazine, you know, that's a newspaper, but they also had a weekly magazine or monthly magazine. They ran a story that simply titled where is Judy Martins? And it's a really good, informative article on the case. And you have officers reflecting on the case five years after she's been missing and telling you what they did right and what they did wrong. And this article really drums up a lot of information and a lot of excitement from the general public, and it really causes a lot of people to start coming forward. In fact, there was one detective that later said that this article in this magazine brought a lot of people out of the woodwork, that they started to get some more information on the case. And maybe a lot of it was bad information. But what this directly leads to, Captain, is within a very short period of time, the Avon Lake Police Department receives a phone call stating that this is from an individual that works in law enforcement and states. You know, on this night very recently, we had someone, a woman that was brought in for prostitution charges being held here in our jail, and that it was Judy Martins. I'm telling you, that's who we saw. Now, this is five years after the fact. The law enforcement agency basically says, look, it does resemble her it could be her. Although it looks like, you know, not only has she aged five years, but maybe drugs and a hard life have aged her considerably in that five year time period. There's so much weight given to this that Judy Martins must have dropped out of school, headed out of town and became a street walker in Cleveland that they start writing an article. There's an individual that wrote a lengthy article about this situation and states all the similarities between the two. Well, the first one we should point out is that when this female was booked at the jail, she gives the name Judy Martinez.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

That's not a, not a far jump from Judy Martins.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

That's one. Number two, she looks almost identical to Judy Martins.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes. Add, add in the drugs and the hard life.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Right, Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

But they're practically the same height. They look very similar. And this article that I read even states that they had the same birthmark. I mean, it goes on and on. It just rattles off a whole bunch of what's.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

What people need to know is that Judy, at the time that she went missing, they didn't have her fingerprints on file. So they couldn't even test for fingerprints at that time.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And they would, they were under the belief that this individual, this Judy Martinez, would not tell them, would not be honest if she was in fact Judy Martens. So they get Judy Martin's family involved in this. Her mom or dad or brother or sister.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

This is where it gets even more wild.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

They go down there and they meet this individual and you say more wild. But I've actually seen, read, heard multiple versions of this story and this portion of the story anyway. And some of those versions say that Judy's mother believed it was Judy. Other, other versions of the story state that the family knew almost instantaneously that it was not her. That they, as much as they wanted it to be her, it was not. And they even felt that this, this reporter that wrote several articles or at least one lengthy article about this situation, that he may have embellished a little bit on the similarities between Judy Martinez and Judy Martins and made it sound, you know, like it was in fact the same person before delivering at the end that it was not.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Now, based off of, they based this off of dental records that Judy Martins had her four wisdom teeth removed and this individual still had her four wisdom teeth. And of course, somebody then reports a week or so later that on very, very, very rare occasions, someone can have these teeth removed and they can grow back. I don't know if that's. Yeah, I don't know if that's real or not. I've been told that that's a real thing, but I'm not a dentist. I don't play one on tv. And I'm not going to pretend to know. But the rumor is grow back.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, but the rumor is your anti. Dentite.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

My, My wisdom teeth have not grown back. I can, I can only report what I know.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Makes a lot of sense now. Well, you also heard that they did a handwriting sample.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

And do you know what the outcome of that was?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

I've seen that it matched, but I'm

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

not a big 95%

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

and that's great.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Now, hold on. Just. I want people to understand, have this sink in a little bit. For the most part, I don't buy the whole polygraph thing. Take it or leave it. I think it's a barometer. If they don't want to take the test, it's a barometer of where they're at. And that's why I believe that we should administer the test. It shouldn't be allowed in the court. No, no, no, no. But this joke of a science should never be allowed in anything. And you have family members that are saying, nope, that is not Judy. We have dental records that say, nope, that's not Judy. But then 95% matching to handwriting samples that this is her. And I bring this up because when people talk about the handwriting samples in the JonBenet Ramsey case, just knock it off. This is junk science. Rant's over.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And I can't agree with you anymore there, Captain. There's. There's no reason to believe, other than you could hug me, some suspicions that this person was Judy Martins. In fact, the original name she gives when she's arrested is Sandra Lopez and then later says that she's Judy Martinez.

[Advertisement Voice]

I.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

My guess here is, look, she's booked and she's going to be charged with criminal activity.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And she probably willing to play along in some way or form to. She's street smart.

[Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

She's going to see if, hey, if I play along with some of this, will it help me out of my current predicament.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah. And but one time she was arrested, she said I'm George Lopez. The next day she says I'm Mario Lopez.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, in, in the end, she denies being Judy Martins. Her family, Judy Martin's family says this is not her. Again, there's a story where Dolores believed that it was right. Her daughter and Arthur did not believe, and nobody else in the family believed. Again, I think that portion of the story might be embellished or it's just. It's just a brokenhearted woman saying or wanting to try to believe that maybe there's a chance that this is my little girl that I've been missing and lost for five years. In fact, Dolores Martins goes out of her way to tell the newspapers that poor young woman that I met there that day was not my daughter. But I'm here to tell you, there was a good soul, There was a good child inside of that woman, and I feel bad for her, and I wish her nothing but the best. And I'm hoping that things can turn around for her.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Which is surprising, though, because didn't she say some mean things to the family?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

She said, you know, at some point, Judy Martins is better off dead.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, well, that's coming from somebody that's in a position that she's in. Well, she's probably a drug addict. And.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, yeah. It's just another sad portion of this story where it's. It's a person that's lived a hard life and probably been dealt a bad deal.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, well. And you feel so bad. Look, I. I used to say people have the right to make the decision of whatever they want, and it's not my place to tell people whether or not they're doing drugs. But then you start realizing some of them had no choice. Some of them got in a situation where it wasn't just as simple as, hey, I went out to party one day, and then things got out of hand. Some of these people legitimately get into this situation. I just feel bad for these individuals because part of it is the addiction is a sickness and they probably want to be dead so they don't have to deal with the addiction. But it's just sad either way.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, it's a downward spiral that they really have no control over. Even if they want out and to get clean and do the right thing, they. They really don't have, in some cases, as sad as it may sound, don't have a choice in the matter at some point. At the end of the day here, Captain, what we have here is a case that is over 40 years old. Nobody believes, no law enforcement agency believes it might sound good on the Internet or. Or on somebody else's podcast. But nobody working the case then nor today believe that Judy Martins is alive and that she left on her own and started a new life somewhere. I've been told, and I think the evidence points to this. And you brought up something very interesting off, Mike when we were discussing this case and we'll get to that in just a second. But whoever is responsible for her going missing, their name is in this file. Their name is in that timeline of that night in the early morning hours of the 23rd and the 24th. This was not committed by Ted Bundy. This was not committed by William Posey. This was not committed by Sam Little. His name gets mentioned in this case, too. Serial killer that was known to drive through Ohio and may have several Ohio victims.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, I think one of the things for him was he would do drawings of his victims and sometimes try to put the date of when they went missing or roughly the time he. The tough thing about this, though, is he'll actually write 1986 or 1976. So sometimes his dates are wildly. They wildly vary. But there is a couple women that could possibly match her from that area, but I don't know if they match up as far as timeline goes.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And there were some other missing persons cases that Judy Martin's case gets mentioned in the same paragraph with from time to time over the years. And that's Yvonne regler, who was 17 and went missing from that same area. Not a college student. She was working at a gas station by herself. And it looks to me like somebody abducted her at the gas station. There was a Kathy Morrow, age 22. Yvonne Regler and Judy Martins are still missing to this day. I could not find. And I spent a good deal of time on this, and it was a fruitless search here. Captain. I could not find any update on Kathy Morrow's case, whether she was ever located, found dead or murdered or, you know, any of those bad news things. I couldn't locate anything on her. I have suspicions that she was probably found because Yvonne and Judy are both still listed on the Charlie Projects website and other places where Kathy Morrow is no longer listed or was never entered on those databases. And I find the Charlie Project website to be incredibly accurate, one of the more accurate, if not the most accurate one out there when it comes to nationwide missing persons.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

And if you're into missing person cases as much as I am, please take the time. Even just as much of a. As a Starbucks cup of coffee. $5 goes a long way to supporting them and their research and all the time that they spend. It's well worth it, because if you've listened to podcasts throughout the years, you probably listened to hundreds of cases, and they all pretty much reference the Charlie Project.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

You're exactly right, Captain. There are many podcasters, many Internet sleuths and YouTubers that use this Charlie Project website. And it's charlieproject.org for those that are not familiar. And it's Charlie with a Y. Go and take a little look. See on. On that website. Megan Good runs the website and is doing very, very good work, as I like to say. And I hope those other podcasters and YouTubers are regular donors to her and to the Charlie Project, because I hope and pray that that never goes away. But again, Captain, this case, sadly, we're looking for a body here. And another sad aspect of this. Law enforcement has basically said, you know, if we would have had a body early on, this investigation would have went completely different. And they believe that the person or persons responsible would already be in custody, that this would be an easy case for them to. To execute, even with the blunders and the delay of Kent State. But Avon Lake did good work on this. The Portage County Sheriff's Office did good work on this. The U.S. marshals were brought in on this case. And those guys and girls are no slouches at all. In fact, they were brought in because of the Posey portion of this case, because he was actually apprehended in Texas, and the two women that he killed were not from Ohio.

[Advertisement Voice]

He.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

He lived in other states throughout different portions of his life. In fact, I believe one was in Vermont, a girl that he knew, a woman that he knew in Vermont, and one was a woman in Illinois. So they're brought in once we have somebody who's already in custody, and we have cases that are going from state to state to state. And so in this case here, we are really looking for a body or looking for any of those missing items that were never located. The wig, the imitation leather purse, any of those garments that she may have been wearing that night, or any. Any form of identification or anything that she would have had with her that night. That is what they are currently looking for. And circling back to one of the most powerful things in this case, and it's something that you said to me before we hit record, when we were just chilling in the garage and kind of spitballing about the case. You said to me, so do you

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

want a hit of this doobie?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

You said, at any point in your research, could you find. Could you find someone saying that Judy Martins told them that she was returning to her room after hanging out with different people that night? Now, there's one portion in the timeline where she does tell a friend at her dorm building that she might return to her friend's dorm after going over to visit with some of the Fellows over at the male dormitory. But at no point, out of all of these guys that saw her toward the end of the night and leading up to her disappearance and none of their statements does any of them say that she said that she was returning to her dorm. Now, a lot of people would go, well, doesn't that call into question the idea that maybe she was taking off or maybe she went elsewhere and could have been abducted elsewhere? Of course it does. But here's what I want to point out. Judy Martins probably did not have the opportunity to say that to anyone because this was probably not a planned murder. Something happened in the course of a conversation or activities that night that led to some kind of struggle. She didn't have the opportunity to say that she was going home that night because somebody stopped her from going home that night. And I think we talk about this from time to time here in the garage. Unfortunately, in some cases, the perpetrator or perpetrators get lucky. And here we might have that situation, Captain, where all of the students leaving campus and the holiday break coming up and Kent State not jumping in right away on this may have helped the perpetrator or perpetrators get rid of this body and conceal this body and it's not been found. And they got rid of evidence. They cleaned things up. They got their stories together.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, to me it's very simple. She was. We have no eyewitness that saw her after she was in the all male dorm room.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And I just, as much as the next guy or girl love a good story. Right. I love a good mystery. It's very intriguing to hear that, oh, there was this mysterious person that was arrested for charges in Cleveland and she looked just like Judy Martins and had the same birth date and birthmark and this, that and the other thing. There's this mysterious shopper at a garage sale who looked just like Judy and said that she was going to South America. That stuff is very intriguing. It wasn't her at that garage sale. It wasn't her who was picked up in Cleveland. Sometimes a cigar is just a smoke and sometimes the. The answer is obvious and it's right there in front of you. And here that's exactly what we have with this case. Those people, those individuals that by their own admission said that they were the last ones to see her that night. One of them or some of them are responsible for this and one of them may have done it all by themselves. I have a firm belief and a very strong suspicion and plenty of reason and plenty of reasons why to believe that even if one individual took this young woman's life, that they probably had some help in getting rid of her body.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

As always, thanks for listening. Tell your friends, tell your brother, tell your mother.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

How about some recommended reading, Captain?

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes, sir.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

This is a must read. You know, there are such weird coincidences at times in our lives. Here I was a few weeks ago discussing some case with someone. They're telling me all about this case that I'd never heard of before. The case involved twin brothers. One of them was killed. It was originally ruled a suicide. And there's a police cover up and a pack of teenagers. This is a case out of Columbia, Maryland, in the 90s. And as this person was telling me more and more about the case, I kept saying, wow, this is such an interesting case. Why have I not heard of this case before? So then, just a couple of days later, I find this book called Losing a Teen's Tragic Death, A Police Cover up and A Community's Fight for Justice by David Parrish. It's a book on that case. So this book kind of found me. I didn't go looking for it. And I would not have known about this case if I hadn't been talking to the person. So I love those interesting little coincidences. So do yourself a favor and check out Losing John by David Parrish. You'll be reading through this almost too unbelievable to be true, true crime books. And you'll ask yourself the same thing. Why have I not heard of this case before? Oh, and another weird thing here, Captain. In this story, Christina Gutierrez, the lawyer who defended Adnan Syed, was the attorney for one of the major players in this story. Again, that's Losing John, A Teen's Tragic Death, A Police Cover up, and A Community's Fight for Justice by David Parish. And you don't have to write that title down right now because you will find it on our recommended page atTrue Crime Garage.com and until next week, be

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

good, be kind, and don't litter. Sa.

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