Missing Sodder Children /// Part 1 /// 892

Summary

True Crime Garage – Missing Sodder Children /// Part 1 /// 892

Released: December 24, 2025
Hosts: Nic and the Captain

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Overview

This episode marks the 80th anniversary of the mysterious disappearance of five Sodder children from Fayetteville, West Virginia, on Christmas Eve, 1945. Nic and the Captain delve into the perplexing case, offering a detailed timeline, the family background, initial theories, and baffling details that have sustained the mystery for decades. They aim to lay out the facts and context, exploring why this incident has such an enduring legacy in true crime lore.

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Main Theme

The Sodder Children Disappearance:
A deadly fire engulfs the Sodder family home on Christmas Eve, but no remains of five missing children are found. This raises the possibility of abduction and ignites a multi-decade mystery involving suspicious circumstances, disputed investigations, and steadfast beliefs from the surviving Sodder family members.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Night of the Fire (December 24–25, 1945)

• The Sodder family, Italian immigrants, lived in a two-story house north of Fayetteville, West Virginia.
• On Christmas Eve, Jenny (the mother) let five children—Maurice, Martha, Louis, Jennie, and Betty—stay up past bedtime to play with recently received gifts and listen to the radio.
• Jenny was awakened at 12:30 am by a wrong-number call. She described hearing laughter, glass clinking, and unfamiliar voices. ([18:56-19:48])
• Before going back to bed, she noticed the lights were on, doors unlocked. After returning to bed, she heard something hit and roll off the roof. ([19:58-20:44])
• Between 1:00 and 1:30 am, Jenny smelled smoke, discovered a fire in the office, and woke her family. Some family members escaped, but five children were never seen again.
• Multiple frantic efforts were made to rescue the children:
  • Both family trucks—used for George’s trucking business—failed to start despite functioning earlier the same day.
  • The household ladder was missing from its usual spot and later found far from the house. ([31:34-33:31])
  • No one saw or heard the trapped children during the blaze.
  • A neighbor’s attempt to contact the fire department via operator was unsuccessful; responders arrived hours later.

2. The Aftermath and Early Investigation

• The fire department’s delayed arrival (8–9 am, hours after the fire began) meant the house was reduced to ash.
• No remains (bones, teeth, or fragments) of the five children were found among the rubble, despite other items—like jars, utensils, and bed springs—being discovered. ([41:06-42:57])
• The Chief, F.J. Morris, later admitted he had not conducted a ‘thorough search’ of the ruins, only inspecting where he believed beds to be placed. ([49:04-50:24])
• Community rumors and theories abounded, including:
  • Suspicious prior threats against George Sodder, particularly from a former business associate angry at George's political views (especially his anti-Mussolini sentiment). ([13:13-14:04])
  • A visiting handyman warned about fuse boxes being a potential fire hazard days before the blaze.
  • Reports of unfamiliar vehicles watching the Sodder house in the week leading up to Christmas.
• Quick inquest (with possible conflict of interest) concluded accidental fire due to faulty wiring, despite claims that electricity was professionally inspected. ([52:18-55:17])

3. The Family’s Persistence & Debates

• George and Jenny Sodder rejected the official finding, convinced their children were taken—citing the total lack of remains as primary evidence. ([48:33-50:57])
• The family’s steadfastness and tireless efforts galvanized broader community and national interest, drawing bodies like the Smithsonian Institution to weigh in over the years.
• The unresolved questions: Was it tragedy or conspiracy? Did the children die in the fire, or were they kidnapped?
• Key obstacles to answers: questionable search procedures, possible biases among investigators, and persistent mysteries (e.g., missing ladder, disabled trucks, cryptic phone call, slow fire response).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the family’s Italian heritage and local community:
  "By then they already had seven children... So the big family is going to be moving and George decided to leave the coal mines and and begin working for a local businessman. His name is Forenzo John Otello."
  – Nic (09:15)

• On the ominous warning before the fire:
  "'Your goddamn house is going up in smoke and your children are going to be destroyed. And you are going to pay for the dirty remarks you have been making about Mussolini.'"
  – Nic, quoting John Otello's threat (13:38)

• On the mysterious phone call:
  "She said she could hear laughing and talking in the background. And a woman asked her for someone you know by name... Jenny informs them that they have the wrong number. And the call ended."
  – Nick (17:03-18:56)

• On the failed rescue efforts:
  "George and the two oldest sons... they're going to attempt to start both of these trucks. ...They're unable to get these vehicles started. ...The ladder was always on the side of the house. But for whatever mysterious reason, on this night, when they seem to need it the most, they could not find it."
  – Nic (30:54-33:34)

• On the lack of physical evidence:
  "Left in ruins was the house. And in the ruins of the house we find a stove, charred utensils, fruit jars, bed springs, toys, and two steel drums."
  – Nic (42:57)

• On the ‘official’ verdict and skepticism:
  "It was impossible, his word, impossible to determine the cause of the fire, but then to claim it was caused by defective wiring. Almost in the same sentence."
  – Nic (55:18)

• On why the mystery endures:
  "You could sum up the case in probably a 10 minute conversation, but you'd leave the individual wanting to know more. But it's also a case that if you dissect every weird bizarre scenario within this case. You could talk about this case for a month and not get tired of it."
  – Captain (59:36)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:44 — Introduction to the New York Times reporting on the Sodder fire
• 05:25 — Emphasis on the missing children and national impact
• 09:15 — Sodder family’s background and migration
• 13:13 — Threatening visit from ex-business partner
• 14:04 — George Sodder’s anti-Mussolini sentiment discussed
• 17:03 — Days leading up to the fire, odd occurrences, strange man and parked car
• 19:48 — The night of the fire: phone call, noises, discovery of smoke
• 30:54 — The failed escape and rescue attempts
• 36:43 — Fire department’s delayed response; witness testimony
• 41:06 — Search for children’s remains and what was found in the rubble
• 49:04 — Fire chief’s later admission of incomplete search
• 52:18 — Inquest and the controversial official verdict
• 60:10 — Sodder parents fill in the basement, begin memorial garden

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Tone & Style

Nic and the Captain maintain an empathetic, inquisitive, and conversational approach. Their blend of detailed research, honest skepticism, and dark humor provides both information and humanity, while respect for the victims and cautious criticism of authorities remain consistent themes.

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To Be Continued

The episode ends with a preview of Part 2, promising further investigation into the Sodder mystery, theories about the children’s fate, and the Sodder family’s relentless search for answers.

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“We have five little kids, five of the ten solder children gone… Were they killed in a horrific Christmas fire or were they stolen away before the flames took the house? That has been the question for 80 years now.”
— Nic (60:10)

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For further details and discussion, listen to Part 2 of the Missing Sodder Children on True Crime Garage.

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Nick (Host)]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me, as always, is a man who won this year's Feats of Strength. Here is the Captain and I also.

[Captain]

Won Airing My Grievances. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick (Host)]

This week we are Merry little Elves because we are getting full of holiday Cheer. We are drinking Holiday Cheer, one of my favorite Christmas beers from the good folks at Shiner. Holiday Cheer is a Bavarian style dark wheat ale brewed with Texas peaches and roasted pecans. ABV 5.4% garage grade four and three quarter bottle caps out of five. And let's spread the cheer by sharing a cheers. First up, cheers to Nicole in Caltati, California.

[Captain]

And a big wheat like jib goes out to Robert Maxwell and Louisville, Kentucky.

[Nick (Host)]

And here's a shout out to Lynn in Memphis. The quote best mom in the world from her favorite son Cooper. Merry Christmas to everyone who contributed to the beer fund yet. Merry Christmas to everyone listening and joining us here in the garage today. We thank you.

[Captain]

Yeah, BW double R U N beer run RIP Todd Snider if you know, you know. Check out truecrime garage.com sign up on the mailing list. Hey, subscribe to off the Record if you need more True Crime Garage for your earballs and Colonel, that's enough of the business.

[Nick (Host)]

All right everybody gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

[Narrator/Researcher]

December 26, 1945. The terrifying headline from the New York Times reads 11 Children Die and 4 Home Fires. Weatherman's Christmas Greetings to Two Cities. That headline refers to a Times article reporting on multiple fatal Christmas Eve home fires, including the infamous incident where five Sodder children disappeared in Fayetteville, West Virginia after their house burned down, sparking a famous mystery of potential kidnapping and unresolved disappearance.

[Nick (Host)]

The report details how a fire destroyed.

[Narrator/Researcher]

The Sodder home with officials believing the five children perished, though no remains were found, leading the family to suspect foul play and fueling decades of investigation. Early reporting places George and Jenny Sodder and nine of their 10 children asleep in the two story home. A blazing fire quickly consumed their home in the middle of a frigid night, killing five children while parents and four siblings escaped. It was very cold with temperatures dropping below freezing during the night.

[Nick (Host)]

It was cold enough that the area.

[Narrator/Researcher]

Experienced a white Christmas. No remains were found in the rubble, leading the family to believe that the children were abducted before the fire, a belief reinforced by suspicious circumstances and subsequent unconfirmed leads. The New York Times headline 11 Children Die in 4 Home. Weatherman's Christmas greetings to two cities specifically covered this and other Christmas Day tragedies.

[Nick (Host)]

But it was the Sodder case that.

[Narrator/Researcher]

Gained lasting fame due to the missing children.

[Nick (Host)]

This is true crime Garage. We have featured many, many cases over the years. We have covered and gone over hundreds of unsolved murder mysteries, some of them cold cases. We have one here tonight on tap that will chill you to the bone. We often attempt to remind folks that each case is unique. You cannot nor should not ever go into one of these cases with the mindset that you have seen it all before because you and we have not. If you put blinders on, you will very likely prevent yourself from ever seeing the truth. This week's case is unique and unlike any other case that we have covered in so many ways, but one way in particular that makes this one stand alone again. We have reviewed many cases when and where additional investigating agencies and resources get involved. But this is the first that I recall that we have the Smithsonian Institution that became involved in this case. And it's a very strange and tragic Christmas mystery. This unsolved mystery is often referred to as the Solder Children disappearance. This is when in 1945, five of the ten solder children simply vanished after their house burned down, sparking a famous mystery that has fueled decades of investigation. Now let's get into some of the facts of the case, the timeline, and learn a bit about the Solder family by going back to the early 1900s. The parents of the 10 Sodder children are George and Jenny Sodder who were both originally from Italy. So let's go back to 1911 when a young teenager, just a boy really only 13 years old, named Giorgio, immigrates from Sardinia, Italy to the United States. Once here, he is now George Sodder, his American name. Not much is known about his time before he came to the state of West Virginia, but what is known is that he lived in Pennsylvania and Michigan for some time and worked on the railroad. On a draft registration card from 1917, he states that he was sending money back to his parents. Sometime in the early 1920s he arrived in Smithers, West Virginia and worked both in the coal mines and as a taxi driver. Smithers is where he would meet his soon to be wife, Jenny. Jenny was born Jenny Cipriani in March of 1903 in Italy. She was the second born of six siblings, two boys and four girls. She came to America with her parents in 1904. They eventually moved to Smithers, West Virginia where her father, Joseph Cipriani eventually opened a store called the Music Box. Jenny would work at the Music Box sometimes and that is where she met George Sodder. They were married on November 4, 1922. And then George and Jenny Sodder over the next 20 years would go on to have 10 children. So there's a dozen in the Solder clan.

[Captain]

That's a lot of coitus.

[Nick (Host)]

George and Jenny lived in Smithers until 1935 when they decided to move to Fayetteville. Makes some sense here as Fayetteville during those days had a large population of Italian immigrants. By then they already had seven children. John, Joe, Marion, George Jr. Who actually went by Ted, Maurice, Martha and Lewis. So the big family is going to be moving and George decided to leave the coal mines and and begin working for a local businessman. His name is Forenzo John Otello.

[Captain]

It seemed like this area had a high population of Italians.

[Nick (Host)]

Forenzo John Otello co owned John Otello and company with his first cousin Cliente John Otello. In October of 1935 the Sodders bought the land where the fire would eventually occur and built a two story house with a full basement. Donatello agreed to co sign the loan for the house under the condition that he be made beneficiary of the home insurance. And to this arrangement George agreed. Now sometime in 1943, George decided to part ways with Johnatello and bought a failing company. This was the Dempsey Transfer Company. It is rumored that John Otello was not happy with George leaving him or George's decision. But George would eventually change the name of this company to the Solder Trucking Company and it and ran it with the help of his two oldest sons, John and Joe. And left Jenny in charge of handling the books for the company. Georgia's business prospered and they became, quote, one of the most respected middle class families around. End quote.

[Co-host/Commentator]

This was the words of one local official.

[Nick (Host)]

By 1945 the couple had 10 children. Adding Jenny, Betty and Sylvia to the mix. Also in 1945, in major world news, it was finally the end of World War II. Of course we know that the Allies won. But it's a little difficult to use the word one when over 70 million people worldwide were killed. But Germany surrendered in May of 1945. And then Japan surrenders in August of that same year. But before all of that, In April of 1945, the man who was the dictator of Italy, Benito Mussolini, dictator up until 1943, was executed after being overthrown and arrested. Now please note that I didn't go.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Out of my way to mention Mussolini as that name. And the country of Italy come up quite a bit in the theories and speculation portions of this case. Now let's zoom in Captain on the latter part of 1945. The day in question will be Christmas 1945. But let's go right around 60 days before Christmas. When the former business partner and co signer of the home, Johnatello tells his friend he sends his friend and insurance salesman Rosser Long to the Solder residence. This to try to convince George to raise the amount of insurance currently on the house. And also take out life insurance on every member of the Sodder family. George takes the meeting, listens to what this salesman has to say. But declines to raise the insurance and declines the life insurance on the members of his family.

[Captain]

Yeah, then it seems to get pretty heated.

[Nick (Host)]

Yes, there's varying reports of this. But the one that seems to ring the most true to me anyway is John Otello then visited the Solder home. I guess this is at his anger that George wouldn't sign up for the additional insurance. The report I have in front of me again reported various ways. But the report I have in front of me Johnatello visit the home and stated to George, quote, I see you have refused to take out insurance and refused to sign the papers to settle Mrs. Sodder's father's estate. Your goddamn house is going up in smoke and your children are going to be destroyed. And you are going to pay for the dirty remarks you have been making about Mussolini. End quote.

[Captain]

He was a lover of Mussolini.

[Nick (Host)]

Okay, we need to point out something here that's, that's reported everywhere in, in all accounts of this, the telling of this true crime story. It seems to be no secret that George Slaughter. George Slaughter was not a fan of Benito Mussolini. In fact, he was rather vocal at his dislike for Mussolini. God forbid you say something bad about a dictator of a country who chooses to join the enemy partnering with a genocidal maniac like Hitler. Yeah, I couldn't think of anything good to say about Mussolini. But also, I don't want my house burned down, so don't hold it against me, folks. So sometime after this threat was made by Johnatello, but before the Christmas fire, right. There was a man that came to the Soda residence and asked George if he needed any work done on the place. It's believed that this man was known to George, but I couldn't find his name in any reports. So George tells the man that, no, we're good and we don't need any work performed at the Soda residence. This nameless man then supposedly walked around to the back of the house, pointed to two separate fuse boxes and said, that's going to start a fire someday. To which George replies, we have an electric stove. And then we had to have an extra fuse box installed for it. Now, it is stated in many reports elsewhere that George also said that they had electricians, professional electricians that came out, installed this fuse box.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

And signed off on it, that it was perfectly safe.

[Captain]

Yeah, but you got to remember the time period, it's 1945. And throughout the years, practices of the past have had to be upgraded to. Due to safety and hazardous reasons.

[Nick (Host)]

Yes, signing off on electric being perfectly safe has been done countless times. And we've also had uncountable house fires due to bad wiring or electrical issues. The report is though, as, as said that he informs this guy of, hey, everything's fine here. We don't need any work. You're wrong about the fuse box. And then this man leaves again. This man nameless in, in all of the reports.

[Captain]

Well, and I think it's funny that when the one guy says, your house is going to burn down, we assume that that was a threatening remark. But this guy that was known to the father says something. And we don't take that as a threatening remark. We take that as more as like, hey, that fuse box is going to start a fire. You might want to be careful. You might want to get that checked.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, it's. Whatever happened here, it stuck with George. And it would make sense because this is Only about a week before the fire. But I don't have any thing to tell me how he took that information to, to be. If he took it as a threat or just as a, oh, hey man, that's going to catch fire someday. For about a week leading up to the fire, the Sodders would later report seeing an automobile being parked across the street with a man inside this vehic. They seemed to be watching the house and they thought watching the children getting off of the school bus the day of the fire. George, the dad, and two sons, John and Ted, were busy making deliveries. Now, the daughter, one of the daughters, Marion, was working a shift at a local store. She arrived home armed with gifts for her younger siblings. Now we go to 10:30pm Jenny, the mom, announced that, hey, it's time for bed. But we have Maurice, Martha, Lewis, Jenny, the daughter and Betty, these five kids, they asked if they could stay up late, past the bedtime. They wanted to play with the toys that they had just received, the gifts they had just received, and listen to the radio. Marion had already fallen asleep on the couch by this time. Now, it's my understanding this was a pretty regular occurrence. Many times she actually preferred to sleep on the couch in the living room instead of upstairs. Jenny agreed to let the five kids stay up as long as they completed their chores, which included taking care of the outside animals, closing the blinds to the house, locking the doors and turning off the lights. George, Jenny, Sylvia, John and Ted were all in bed by 11. And remember, we have Marion sleeping on the couch. This is the last time, depending on which report you read, and we'll, we'll get into the details as we go, but this is the last time that a member of the Solder family saw the five children that would be later declared dead and argued to be missing. At around 12:30am Jenny wakes up. This is due to a phone call. When she answered the phone, she said she could hear laughing and talking in the background. And a woman asked her for someone you know by name. Hey, is so and so there? And Jenny's like, I don't know who this is. Jenny informs them that they have the wrong number. And the call ended.

[Captain]

Yeah, and I think they hear some like, glasses clinking in the back and, and some people talking and, and, and then like you said, some kind of weird laughter.

[Nick (Host)]

Before going back to bed, she noticed that the lights were still on and the doors were not locked. She figured that the children just forgot and locked the doors herself before. She then returned to bed. Shortly before falling back asleep she said she heard what she thought sounded like something hitting the roof and then rolling off. She considered waking her husband, but she figured it was likely just a tree limb and she does go back to sleep. Now. The reports on this next part vary by the minutes, okay, and I think it'd be clear as to why we don't have this down pinpointed to the exact minute. Some reports say that this was as early as 1am some reports have this as late as 1:30am some but sometime between 1am and 1:30am Jenny says that she woke up again, this time to.

[Co-host/Commentator]

The smell of smoke.

[Nick (Host)]

She got up to check it out and this is when she said that she discovered a fire in the room that they used as their office. The fire was spreading rapidly and was already blocking her path to the telephone. She immediately yells to her husband, George. She runs to the living room to wake up Marion, who then grabbed Sylvia and then yelled up the stairs to wake the sleeping children. She then ran outside to try and put out the fire. From the outside of the house, the two sons, John and George Jr. Heard their mother yelling and immediately jumped out of bed and started down the stairs and yelling to their other siblings to wake up and get out of the house. As they were going down the stairs, the fire was spreading so fast that their hair was singed as they were fleeing the home. They made it outside as well, also in hopes to help put out the fire.

[Captain]

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[Captain]

All right, we are back. Cheers, mates. Tall cans in the air. Cheers to you, Colonel.

[Nick (Host)]

Cheers to you. A holiday. Cheers to you, Captain.

[Captain]

We're drinking some spiked eggnog.

[Nick (Host)]

Well, I'm drinking holiday cheer by Shiner, but spiked eggnog does sound fantastic.

[Captain]

Always have to be a one upper.

[Nick (Host)]

Well, I don't know if I'm one upping you. I'm just simply drinking the beer of the week. But what we have going on now here in the timeline, right, is a family divided. We have about half of the family outside of the home. The home is ablaze. The portion of the family that's outside, we have the parents, we have Sylvia, who is the youngest, and then we have some of the older children as well. Two sons and one daughter. They're outside and they are realizing that five of the solder kids were presumably still inside of the home. And they have to assume that they are trapped upstairs. I do want to note something here. All right. We've already pointed out that they had 10 children. One of them was not at the home that night. So we only have nine solder children to be concerned with, with this house fire. Right. But the home itself is divided into a girl's room and a boy's room. So one part of this story that seems odd to me is we have the two older sons that when they wake up, I would assume if you have a girl's room and a boy's room, that all the boys would be in one room and all the girls would be in the other room. The two boys are not saying that, that their brothers are seen in the room with them when they wake up and start running down the stairs. But again, as far as most of this family is concerned, the kids that are missing, they were all, they all stayed up later than the rest of the family.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

So now once outside, this is pretty smart. So remember, it's a two story home with a full basement. You're outside, you assume that your other children are trapped upstairs. So George and the two oldest sons, they go, George owns this trucking company. They have two trucks outside. They're going to attempt to start both of these trucks. Because these are large vehicles. Their idea is let's back them up to the house. We'll climb on top of them so we can reach the second story and we can get the, the other kids out. They can hop down on top of the truck and we'll all be fine.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

So they're attempting to start the trucks. They are unable to get these vehicles started. They were all at the same time yelling for the children to get out of the house, get out of the house, wake up, get out of the house. None of the solders outside of the home say that they heard the kids inside the house or saw them at any of the windows.

[Captain]

Yeah, we have nobody in the family being able to put them in the house while the fire is happening, whether it's visual or, you know, through audible. But also, it's not just these, these trucks. These trucks are kind of the second attempt, because the first attempt was Mr. Solder had a ladder that was always placed against the house for some reason. So he initially went to get up that ladder and the ladder was gone.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, the. Again, the reports vary here. We have a lot of moving pieces and parts here and a lot of things are happening very quickly. Some reports state that he went for the ladder first and then the trucks. This report that, that I believe to be. I'm putting a little more weight into this Report for a couple of reasons. This report has them going for the trucks first and then the latter second. But it doesn't matter, right?

[Captain]

Yeah. Either it doesn't matter because the trucks doesn't matter.

[Nick (Host)]

The order because they're unsuccessful attempts, both of them.

[Captain]

But also, it's very strange. Why are the trucks not working? The they were making deliveries that day. Now they're not. Now they're not working. That doesn't make any sense. And then on top of that, you have this ladder that's, you know, like Dawson Creek. Joey climbing up that ladder to go into Dawson's window. And mysteriously it's missing. And they end up finding it almost, I want to say, half of a football field to a football field away when they end up finding the. The ladder.

[Nick (Host)]

But the big problem is they're not going to find the ladder that night.

[Captain]

Nope.

[Nick (Host)]

So. And here I've changed my mind. Captain, pass me some of that eggnog. I can. I can have both. It's Christmas. It's Christmas, damn it.

[Captain]

I'll show you where you can put that.

[Nick (Host)]

We have George. He runs over to the staircase that goes to the second story. It has a landing, and on that landing is a window. So his idea is, all right, let's go around to that window to the landing on the staircase, and let's attempt to break that glass. Here's another attempt to try to get to the upstairs of the home, to get to the children that he. That everybody has to presume are trapped upstairs due to the fire, having blocked the stairs.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

He ends up cutting his arm pretty badly, breaking the glass to this window. The stairs were already engulfed in flames at this point. And he could not enter the home through this window. And this is that part of the story where it has him looking for the ladder. The family has always stood by this statement that the ladder was always on the side of the house. But for whatever mysterious reason, on this night, when they seem to need it the most, they could not find it. It was not there in its standard location. So Marion, she runs to the home of the Neighbors. This is Mr. And Mrs. Davis to call the fire department. But they were unable to reach the operator. All right, now much to do has been made about the operator and other not being able to get a hold of certain emergency services. We have to think about and keep in mind what the phone systems were like back in 1945. Number one, and number two, keep in mind that it is in the middle of the night, Christmas Eve, going into Christmas morning. I'm sorry. But it's, and it's unfortunate for this situation that we couldn't get help out to the solder family home faster. But you know, people are, people are partying, people are drinking, people are sleeping one off. This is, this is really a bad, bad night for something to go horribly wrong.

[Captain]

I believe the fire department's like what, 2.5 miles or something like that away from the family home.

[Nick (Host)]

While this is all going on or just before the family starts to flee the home, we have some people that are driving past the, the home. So the home is right near Route 21. So the report is that they're driving past the home. I'm assuming they're on this Route 21. They say around this is Mr. Thomas Smith. Mr. Thomas W. Smith says that around 1am he was driving past this location while on his way home from work. He says he saw the fire. This Thomas Smith must be like Bob Cratchit working for Ebenezer here. He's got to work till, till midnight or so on on Christmas Eve.

[Captain]

Well, he's really seeing a mistress. But he couldn't tell the papers that.

[Nick (Host)]

He decides, hey, like he was seeing.

[Captain]

His second family and he had to tell them that he had to work late on Christmas.

[Nick (Host)]

He says he sees this house fire. So he decides he's got to report this. He, he goes to this beer place known as Crassus park, operated by Jeff Adkins and Lonnie Johnson. This is where he tried to call the fire department, but he was told the phone was out of order. He was going to go in there, Hey, I need to call the fire department. Jeff Atkins and Lonnie Johnson, one or both of them inform this man that the phone is out of order. So no luck there. Mr. Smith then drove to Fayetteville and finally succeeded in reaching the fire chief. Now I do want to point out you, you could be absolutely accurate on the distance between the home and the fire department. One thing to note here is that the solder home, while it's regularly reported that it's Fayetteville, West Virginia, that's, that's not wrong. But, but the detailed reports will state that they live just about two miles north of Fayetteville. But when you're talking about emergency services, that's where they're going to be coming from, this Fayetteville. So this Mr. Smith, he finally reaches the fire chief. The fire chief is F.J. morris. According to this report, Smith is told from Morris from the fire chief that we've already received a call about this fire. Now it's alleged that Mr. Smith had to drive to the chief's house rather than the fire department in order to reach him and that when he arrived, the chief was in the middle of a poker game. Again, allegedly.

[Captain]

Right.

[Co-host/Commentator]

You probably should say that about your statement about where Mr. Smith was earlier that night.

[Captain]

Oh, it was a joke.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Mr. Smith states that the fire chief.

[Nick (Host)]

Responded, we know about it. And when asked if he would go to the fire, he stated didn't know.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Mr. Smith then informed him that there.

[Nick (Host)]

Could be children trapped in, in this burning house. And to which he says Mr. Morris gave no response. Mr. Smith then returned to the scene of the fire to find the house destroyed. He then went home, went back around 8am about the same time that the fire department to decided to show up.

[Captain]

Yeah, so it took him like what, over seven and a half hours. But also it's like shows you how bad people can have a gambling problem. Are you going to show up to the fire? Don't know. Well, we'll see if I'm still in the poker game or not.

[Nick (Host)]

After the visit from Mr. Smith, Lonnie Johnson and his business partner, Jeff Adkins. Handful of other people. So we have Peggy Price, Virginia Buckland, Everett Buckland, Lester Cook and an unnamed taxi driver. They arrive at the scene of this fire. They stated to officials that they did not see any children appear at any windows. It was later learned that the phone call came from one of these women that were at the bar. And the women claimed that it was just the wrong number. Okay, so a little clarity here. We're talking about with this F.J. morris, the fire chief, saying, we already received a call about it. They're not talking about that call. One of the persons in this group is saying that I was the one that accidentally called the solder home and it was in fact a wrong number, according to this person, that I was trying to reach somebody, somebody else. The family remembers that the Christmas lights inside the house were still on even while the fire was burning.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

The solders were forced to wait inside the cab of the truck to escape the bitter cold that night while waiting for the fire department to arrive. So they're essentially left there stranded almost. Right. And you, you don't want to leave because half of your family's still inside the home. You have trucks that are not starting and you're hoping and praying that the fire department gets their asap.

[Captain]

There's different reports, but a lot of people say that this fire only lasted 45 minutes to an hour, so. But it was still probably smoldering is what I'm guessing by the time the, the fire department took their good old time getting there.

[Nick (Host)]

Yes, you're exactly right. So according to the newspapers published just days after the fire, the fire department arrived around 9am Again, we've already reported that F.J. morris later would state that they arrived at 8am but regardless, exactly what the captain is pointing out, by the time the fire department is on the scene, the entire house had been burned and reduced to ashes. When he arrived, the fire chief stated that the basement was a glowing bed of embers. And he and his men then laid a line of hose to stream some water and try to cool everything down. Right. You're trying to cool everything down. Once they're able to do this, we have nine persons that are going to search through the rubble. Okay. So the searchers of this debris of the house that once was will be F.J. morse, the fire chief, John Sodder, Emmanuel Moles, Bill Bickford, Jimmy Arthur, Ted Sodder, Arthur Moles, Carl Bragg and Garnett Arthur. So two of the Solder family members are involved in this search. Left in ruins was the house. And in the ruins of the house we find a stove, charred utensils, fruit jars, bed springs, toys, and two steel drums.

[Captain]

Yeah, I think the point here that people try to make when they're, they're talking about what's left is that not everything was disintegrated.

[Nick (Host)]

Yes. And that's going to come into play very importantly, I believe, with the later findings and statements by the, for a lack of better term, let's say experts.

[Captain]

Yeah. Me and you are not the biggest fan of fire experts.

[Nick (Host)]

No, no. And, and I think it, it comes from some of the cases that we've covered and then the changing diagnosis of the fire and how it was started, where it was started, if it was arson, if it wasn't.

[Captain]

I mean, we're very pro first responders, we're very pro firefighters, just as far as the investigation goes. I think it's also too like, would be a very difficult thing to try to study because you have so many factors.

[Nick (Host)]

I think that they get it right 90 some percent of the time. But I think what you're spot on about here, my friend, is that sometimes shit just goes down weird or happens the way that it's not supposed to, and it's really difficult to try to make heads or tails of stuff sometimes. And fire is its own living, breathing thing. Right.

[Captain]

It's fire breathing.

[Nick (Host)]

So there you go.

[Captain]

Yeah, but this is a weird case. Though, because one, it's so old. And so I think some of the information is kind of the telephone effect. And then because it is so old and so mysterious, so many people have covered it. So then, you know, some of that story becomes part of the story, becomes other people's speculation, and it's just so bizarre. I mean, think about this. We have some of the family members up, some of the family members not up. We have two locations upstairs, downstairs. So we have a separation of these individuals. But then we have things that don't make sense. We have this bump in the night. We have this mysterious phone call. Is that a part of something? We have these threats happening. Then when the fire starts, okay, nobody sees these children. Are they even in the house? Where's the ladder? Why aren't the trucks working? Why does it take the fire department so long to get there? It. There's so many bizarre things already.

[Nick (Host)]

Yes. And I think that, you know, we talk about how each different layer can complicate a situation. I think that unfortunately, fortunately, something that we all, many, many of us look forward to, Christmas, I think, complicates the situation even more. Yeah, unfortunately.

[Captain]

I think because it's Christmas, this is one of the reasons why we still talk about it. Yes, it's very bizarre, very tragic. And then you want to know what happened to these children? Are, are they dead? Did they die in the fire or are they missing? In 1945, there was over 10,000 deaths. And that's a estimated number because they don't have the data. You know, it wasn't probably. That data was probably not scrutinized over as much as it is now. So we probably have more exact numbers today. But that's a lot of deaths by fires. But this one, you know, is very mysterious.

[Nick (Host)]

Well, and as said in the trailer, there was 11 deaths and fires that night. That exact night.

[Captain]

So when you have the. The fire chief playing poker, not giving a. If he shows up or not, I mean, that's a real douchebag. Are you going to go to the fire? Yeah, maybe. Don't know.

[Nick (Host)]

So, also found in the rubble, we have damaged and undamaged coins, US Currency. And we have what is most oftentimes reported to be a dictionary. This report states part of a phone book was also recovered. So a dictionary or phone book, either way, a portion of a book was recovered as well. Around 10am we have Chief Morris who informs the Sodders that the ruins had been searched as if with a fine tooth comb, but that no remains of the children were Found. Okay, we're at the 10am marker here. I do want to point something out here. We while. While the reports state that the fire department was on scene at 9am the fire chief claims they were there at 8am what we do know is the state troopers were at the scene at 9am and when they arrive, the fire department is already there. I wanted to throw that into the mix as well. Now we're at 10am this is when the chief informs him that no remains of your children were found. And he says to the Sodders, you let's. You're going to want to grab some dirt, scoop up some dirt, place it in a box and bury it and hold a funeral. Your children have passed in the fire. They were taken by the fire.

[Captain]

Which I think is a very odd thing to say when you have no evidence of it.

[Nick (Host)]

So I try to go through this in a linear fashion, but it gets a little bit difficult to worry that we may miss something because as the captain has pointed out, 80 years this Christmas marks 80 years since this horrible tragedy. I want to make sure that we don't leave anything out because there's been a lot that has happened since the Christmas in 45 to date regarding this case. And right it. We get reminded about this case every Christmas. But the other part of the reason why this cases continue to fascinate people, it's the sheer mystery of it. And you have, you have folks on either side and you also have things that are suggestive of that, well, maybe the kids weren't even there when the fire started, the missing kids. And then you have things that are suggestive that yes they were and they, they did, they were taken by the fire. So before we move on too much further, I do want to State that three years later in 1948, Chief Morris admits to a newspaper that he actually did not do what he would call a thorough search of the runes on that day. Instead, he said he only searched where the beds could have been. And he says he stopped short of a thorough search because George ordered him to. This is one example in my opinion, of folks pointing the finger at each other, blaming one another. We do have other situations where people in official capacity do blame George for, for why this remains a mystery still to this day.

[Captain]

Yeah, but we, we say that in many cases, I mean people blame John Ramsey for the, for the killing of his daughter not being solved. I think there's evidence that George did a lot to try to figure out what happened. And also like, okay, they searched one time, but I Guarantee you other people, whether it's family members or just nosy individuals, went through that rubble as well. And like you said, 80 years later, where's the evidence that they were in the fire?

[Nick (Host)]

Yes. And we should also point out here some of these time markers.

[Narrator/Researcher]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Because if in regards to the search, depending on what time the fire department actually did show up, what we do know is at 10am is when they stopped the search. So if they were there at nine, that's one hour. If they were there at eight, that gave them a max of two hours to search, minus also however long it took to cool down the embers to the point where they could start going through them.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

To me, that's an inadequate search, regardless. And it sounds like the chief eventually admits to that and agrees to my statement.

[Captain]

Well, and I. I believe that they would have found something. And I think when you look at even individuals being cremated and you talk to people that do that, there's normally fragments or even more than fragments left from bone or teeth or whatever, and we see none of that. So. And. And that would be temperatures up until, like, I believe, like, over 2,000 degrees. So I don't know if the fire ever got that hot. But again, I don't know if it's exact science, because where. Where did the fire start? I don't know. Why did the fire start? I don't know.

[Nick (Host)]

The Fayette county prosecutor, Fayette County Prosecuting Attorney Carl Vickers, was informed by Chief Morris that no remains were found. So he decided to hold a coroner's inquest at the location. So on site at the fire, they're going to hold this inquest. Back then, inquests were normally held at the scene of a crime or from my understanding, at the scene of a crime or incident where the conclusions were were likely to be obvious. So the coroner's inquest consisted of six persons, five of which, we should point out, have personal ties to this forenzo Donatello. Now, the members were as follows. One, his cousin and business partner, C.G. johnatello, who was named the foreman of this jury. Right. The jury for this inquest. We also have Fire Chief F.J. morris, who is a friend and bookkeeper for John Otello. We have Floyd C. Shuck, bank bookkeeper for Johnatello. J.D. schultz, member of several clubs with the Johnatellos and other members, as well as president of CG Johnatello's company, which is Fayetteville Savings and Loan. County Clerk Lacey Neely, and Jackson Theodore Jennings, who was an employee of George Sodders the jury quickly returned the verdict that the children had perished in the fire due to smoke suffocation and that the fire was accidental. A second inquest was held the following day, December 26th, where Clinetti, Johnatello reported that, quote, no parts of the five missing children were found in the debris of the fire, end quote. The verdict of accidental fire was based on the allegation that large quantities of oil, gas and coal were kept in the basement of the home. But George Sodder insisted that none of that was kept in the basement. The police report only mentions John Sodder stating that one or two truck motors were currently being stored in the basement at that time. Prosecuting Attorney Vickers was quoted as saying to a local newspaper that the. That was published on December 26, 1945, that there was nothing left to investigate. It was complete destruction. And the jury rendered, I think the only possible verdict under the circumstances, he told another newspaper. So complete was the destruction that any investigation as to the cause was impossible. And the only deduction which could be made is that the fire was caused by a short circuit. Let's let that ruminate for a minute.

[Commercial Narrator]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Because that seems a little talking out of both sides of your face. Right. It's a strange statement to say that the damage was so bad, the level of destruction here is so incredible that it was impossible, his word, impossible to determine the cause of the fire, but then to claim it was caused by defective wiring. Almost in the same sentence. Yeah.

[Captain]

It's very bizarre. And then again, it's like you wonder if these individuals heard anything about the. The insurance agent or did any of them hear about the. The handyman and then just go, well.

[Nick (Host)]

They are not talking about that on, on the day of the fire or the day after. I mean, you have George in the hospital, you have the family gone, and we'll get into that as we continue on.

[Sponsor Narrator]

Yeah.

[Captain]

Or is it just. Well, that's the simplest answer.

[Nick (Host)]

Well, that. That's. I think. I think that could be the case. Right. This just may be a case of civilians with no real understanding of the situation coming to a reasonable explanation that makes sense to them in the moment based on life experiences. I mean, you have. Yes, you do have the, the fire chief. I would like to know the. How the, the workings of the fire department back in 1945 in Fayetteville. Was this. Was this a paid position? Are these voluntary.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Positions? What's his experience beyond that? Because we. One thing we mentioned when we went through the roster of our jury for this inquest, he's He's a bookkeeper. He also works as a bookkeeper. So is this, is this, hey, I'm a bookkeeper. But I also, when I'm available, I help people, I attempt to help people or, or at least put out fires. The other thing though too is you can look at this same situation, right, a jury of six at this inquest and go, well, is this just civilians with no real understanding coming to what they believed at the time was a reasonable explanation for what happened? Or do we have one or two men leading the group down the wrong road? Yeah.

[Captain]

And because how many times have you been a part of a situation where there's not a bunch of bright bulbs in the room and they just kind of default to whoever's leading the conversation?

[Nick (Host)]

Every time I have my fantasy football draft. Of course, the Solders did not agree with the findings, they didn't agree with the inquest and their ruling. John Solder told the police and newspaper that they believed the fire was intentionally set, that it was arson. As far as what's going on at the scene, after we talked about the search, some of the members, the older Solder boys, were involved in the search of the rubble. Now it's believed that George and Jenny, mom and dad, remained at the scene until the majority of the search had been done. But at some point, George, he has to leave. Remember we talked about his injury. He had to be sent to the hospital due to this large gash he had on his arm from breaking that window. And on top of that, he's like inconsolable. He's, he's. Once he's released from the hospital, he was placed on bed rest due to shock. Doctor's orders. That morning, Jenny, she takes the remaining children, minus John, to a family member's house in Smithers. Her, her parents and extended family. Remember we mentioned that she had five siblings. Most of them are still living in Smithers. So they go there so they have somewhere to stay. Dad's in the hospital and John is left at the scene. And it's stated that he stayed behind until officials decided to leave the scene. So he's there until, till the officials leave the scene.

[Captain]

A lot of times when a case is covered by a lot of people, that doesn't interest me as much. I want to hear about the case I've never heard about, but this case is very fascinating because you could sum up the case in probably a 10 minute conversation, but you'd leave the individual wanting to know more. But it's also a case that if you dissect every weird bizarre scenario within this case. You could talk about this case for a month and not get tired of it.

[Nick (Host)]

The basement, captain of the home was filled in on December 29, 1945. This by Jenny's brother Jimmy Cipriani, using Phil dirt and a bulldozer. The reason for this is that the parents, George and Jenny decided to fill in the basement because they did not want what they believe to be their children's final resting place to be trampled on. So the basement was filled and then turned into a memorial garden or going to be turned into a memorial garden for the children. On December 30, 1945, despite no remains being found, death certificates were made for the children citing the cause of death as smoke suffocation. So let's take a moment here to recognize that regardless of what everyone or we end up thinking happened here, we we've got five little kids, five of the ten solder children gone. Gone are Maurice, age 14, Martha 12, Lewis 9, Jenny 8 and Betty 5. That were they killed in a horrific Christmas fire or were they stolen away before the flames took the house? That has been the question for 80 years now. This Christmas as said, will be the 80 year anniversary. A sad one of that tragic day. While this absolutely devastated the Solder family, especially the the parents, and we have seen tragedies destroy so many families in these stories that we cover. We have seen murders lead to divorce, separation, families torn apart. But that does not seem to be the case here. Somehow through all of this, the Sodders remained strong. They remained tight. They became hyper vigilant and determined, determined to get answers. George and Jenny were somehow convinced that if they fought long and hard enough, if they spent every dime they had, if they spent every sleepless night and waking moment, that they would find their children and they were willing to go to the ends of the earth to do so.

[Captain]

Thank you so much for joining us here in the garage. Stick around for part two of this bizarre mysterious case.

[Nick (Host)]

Until then, a toast and a cheers and be good, be kind and don't live.

[Captain]

Sa.

[Personal Narrator]

The essential carrot puree made with organic carrots, bit of green apple and a touch of ginger, served still slightly warm and fed mostly to 7 month old Harper and her 3 year old Doodle named Arthur, who helped clean up any remainder. The essential first bite made possible by Vitamix only. The essential.