Park Bench Murders /// Part 1 /// 820

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Park Bench Murders /// Part 1 /// 820" – True Crime Garage

Episode Information:

• Title: Park Bench Murders /// Part 1 /// 820
• Release Date: February 12, 2025
• Hosts: Nick and The Captain
• Podcast: True Crime Garage

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Introduction to the Case

In this gripping episode of True Crime Garage, hosts Nick and The Captain delve deep into one of the most perplexing unsolved cases in Northeast Ohio—the Cleveland Metro Parks double homicide, also known as the Park Bench Murders. Released five years after the tragic event, the episode aims to shed new light on the circumstances surrounding the murders of Carnell Sledge and Catherine "Kate" Brown.

Timeline of Events

June 4, 2019 – The Day of the Murders

• 4:02 PM: Carnell Sledge (Nick, 04:11) sends a text to Kate Brown inviting her to meet up.
• 4:10 PM: Kate calls Carnell, and they converse for about 10 minutes.
• 4:24 PM: Carnell leaves his workplace.
• 4:31 PM: Kate departs from her gym.
• 5:01 PM: An officer's dash cam captures Kate's vehicle arriving at Rocky River Reservation.
• 5:03 PM: Carnell's vehicle is spotted, following closely behind Kate's.
• 5:08 PM: Kate unlocks her phone, indicating she is not yet under threat.
• 5:22 PM: A 911 call is placed by two kayakers who discover the bodies shortly after.

Key Quote:

“Five years is a long time for somebody to, you know, our family is.”
— The Captain [04:16]

Case Overview

Carnell Sledge, a 40-year-old AV Technician and dedicated community volunteer, and Catherine Brown, a 33-year-old employee at QCG Goods, were enjoying a sunny afternoon at the Rocky River Reservation in Fairview Park, Cuyahoga County, Ohio. The two friends were found brutally shot on a park bench and in the nearby river, with no immediate suspects or clear motives identified.

Discussion of Evidence

Crime Scene Details:

• Location: Rocky River Reservation, a sprawling 2,500-acre park known for its extensive trail network.
• Victims:
  • Carnell Sledge: Found face down next to the park bench, shot twice.
  • Catherine Brown: Discovered face down in approximately six feet of shallow water, shot once.

Key Points:

• Lack of Witnesses: Except for the two kayakers who found the bodies, there were no eyewitnesses or earwitnesses to the crime.
• Surveillance Footage: The only visual evidence comes from an officer's dash cam capturing the victims' vehicles moments before the murders.
• Bullet Casings: All three bullet casings were found in the water, leading to questions about the shooter's escape route.

Notable Quote:

“The only thing that desecrates or desecrated this park is the man that walked in there and shot two lovely innocent people.”
— Nick [10:38]

Suspects and Theories

The Roofer – Primary Suspect:

• Description: A male individual with a pickup truck present at the scene.
• Alibi: Claims to have been working on paperwork in his vehicle during the time of the murders.
• Investigation Focus:
  • Electronics: Law enforcement scrutinized his cell phone, tablet, and laptop to verify his alibi.
  • Gunpowder Residue: Experts considered testing for gunpowder traces to confirm involvement.

Alternative Theories:

• Random Act of Violence: Given the lack of a clear motive and the public nature of the crime, some speculate it may have been a spontaneous attack.
• Targeted Attack: Considering Carnell's protective nature, it's theorized he might have been perceived as a threat, leading the perpetrator to eliminate him first.

Key Quote:

“They're shot and killed in daylight at a public place at a time of day when we had a good amount of traffic on nearby roads.”
— Nick [33:08]

Motive Examination

• Robbery Ruled Out: Carnell's wallet and cell phones were left in plain sight in his vehicle, suggesting theft was not the motive.
• Personal Connection: Families believe Carnell and Kate shared a strong, platonic friendship, making personal vendetta less likely.
• Opportunity-Based Crime: The public and accessible nature of the park may have presented the perfect opportunity for a random attack.

Notable Quote:

“He didn’t hear anything, and he wasn’t paying attention. His head was down the whole time. Yes, but why wouldn’t you...”
— The Captain [48:26]

Investigation Challenges

• Silent Perpetrator: The possibility of a silencer being used remains unconfirmed, complicating the effort to trace the firearm.
• Escape Route Uncertainty: The absence of a clear escape path leaves investigators puzzled about how the shooter fled without detection.
• Community Involvement: Efforts by the families to place "Have You Seen" signs were thwarted by Metro Parks, limiting grassroots information gathering.

Key Quote:

“It takes a village, right? We say that about our children. It takes a village.”
— Nick [11:02]

Current Status and Future Prospects

As the five-year mark approaches, Nick and The Captain express renewed determination to reignite public interest and encourage new tips that could lead to solving the case. Despite previous media coverage, the case remains unsolved, and the families continue to seek justice.

Conclusion: The episode wraps up with anticipation for Part 2, where listeners can expect further exploration of new leads and deeper analysis of the evidence surrounding the Park Bench Murders.

Final Quote:

“Let’s unite and band together and solve this double homicide. Finally solve this double homicide.”
— Nick [13:44]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• The Captain:
  “Five years is a long time for somebody to, you know, our family is.”
  — [04:16]

• Nick:
  “The only thing that desecrates or desecrated this park is the man that walked in there and shot two lovely innocent people.”
  — [10:38]

• Nick:
  “They're shot and killed in daylight at a public place at a time of day when we had a good amount of traffic on nearby roads.”
  — [33:08]

• The Captain:
  “He didn’t hear anything, and he wasn’t paying attention. His head was down the whole time. Yes, but why wouldn’t you...”
  — [48:26]

• Nick:
  “Let’s unite and band together and solve this double homicide. Finally solve this double homicide.”
  — [13:44]

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Closing Remarks

In "Park Bench Murders /// Part 1 /// 820," True Crime Garage meticulously unpacks the unsettling details of a double homicide that has haunted the Cleveland community for half a decade. By combining thorough investigation with empathetic storytelling, Nick and The Captain aim to keep the conversation alive, hoping that renewed attention will eventually bring closure to this tragic case.

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Transcript

[News Anchor]

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[Ted Danson]

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[Nick]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick. And with me as always, ladies and gentlemen, if you have the chance, you better run. Here is the captain.

[The Captain]

Yeah, you better B double. Are you in Beer Run? It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick]

Today we are very excited to be featuring Vivacious by the great folks at Great Lakes Brewing Company. Vivacious is a bold, bright and smooth double IPA featuring three varieties of hops, that is Apollo, Cashmere and Citra ABV 9%. There's good vibes in this double IPA garage grade four and three quarter bottle caps out of five. And do you know who else is giving off some good vibes is these great garage friends right here. First up, a big cheers to Alicia and Burke, Virginia.

[The Captain]

And a big we like your jib goes out to Abby in Austin, Texas.

[Nick]

Next up it cheers to Pamela Visay from Solomon's Island, Maryland.

[The Captain]

And a big double fisted cheers goes out to Tara in rapid Rapid City, S.D.

[Nick]

And last but certainly not least, we have Terry Carter in Oroville, California. Everyone we just mentioned contributed to the beer fund and for that we thank you.

[The Captain]

Yeah, Pwwan Beer Run. You need more True Crime Garage for your earballs, make sure you subscribe to off the Record on Apple Podcast or on Patreon and Colonel. That's enough of the business.

[Nick]

All right everybody, gather round Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

[News Anchor]

Tonight marks five years since Katherine Brown and Carnell Sledge were murdered in the Metro Park's Rocky River Reservation.

[Nick]

And police still don't know who did it.

[News Anchor]

The two friends were last seen sitting on a bench together. Tonight, a vigil was held in their honor as their families hold out hope they will get justice. Our Middy Hicks has more. 2024 marks another year of frustration for Carnell Sledge's family. It's been five years since he was shot and killed and there's still no answers.

[Nick]

That's too long.

[The Captain]

Five years is a long time for somebody to, you know, our family is.

[News Anchor]

Still grieving, but even in their grief, they come together for a vigil each year on the same day he died to remember as they put the glue for this family.

[Nick]

I remember him as being a fun, loving person. He was an amazing person. He really was family oriented.

[News Anchor]

He actually kept us all together. His loved ones say he would do anything for anyone, which is why they're not surprised he helped his friend Kate Brown when she called and asked him to meet her at the park. But shortly after parking kayakers found their bodies. They were shot to death in broad daylight. I said, well, I want to put the bed in until he comes. He said between 5 and 5:30. He died at the same time he was supposed to meet his grandmother for dinner. My baby never made it. My son in law told me I lost it. I haven't been right since. It's like a hole here. I tried to. I'm existing. That hole in their hearts will never be filled. So they're hoping for some relief. And that can only happen when the person responsible is found. They're asking anyone with information to come forward.

[Nick]

Just trying to get some clues, some answers, some closure and just kind of give our families some peace.

[The Captain]

Love you.

[News Anchor]

And there's now a $100,000 reward for any information that could lead to an.

[Nick]

I am thankful beyond words, Captain. We are creeping up on 10 years of podcasting together and that is a testament to all of the wonderful listeners and garage friends that we have made over the years. This case, however, is one of the scariest cases that we have covered. Our first go around on this case was from almost two years ago titled Cleveland Metro Parks murder. So that is From April of 2023, episode number 660 on your true crime garage radio dial. On that episode, I was joined by Aaron, our friend from the Generation Y podcast to discuss the unsolved murders of Carnell Sledge and Catherine Brown. Carnell was an AV Tech at Crescent Digital in Strongsville, Ohio, and volunteered as a youth consultant for Applewood Centers. And he was known for volunteering there, but also for coaching youth sports. And a lot of times these were special needs kids. And he coached these kids and did such a great job with it. He did so much for the people of his community. He's described as a big teddy bear of a man who was always smiling and always looking for ways to help others and known for going out of his way to help his friends and loved ones and many who called him Nell. Catherine worked for QCG Goods in Brook Park, Ohio. Brook Park, Ohio, by the way, one of the most beautiful places in Ohio. Catherine grew up in Olmsted Falls. Catherine was affectionately called Kate by just about everyone that I could find. Now, Nell and Kate were killed, shot and murdered in the Greater Cleveland, Ohio area at the Rocky River Reservation. The Rocky river reservation is a 2,500acre preserve along the Rocky river in Northeast Ohio. It is expansive and it is beautiful, very green. So you have the Cleveland Metro Parks, which is absolutely fantastic. If you take a look at Northeast Ohio, you will see on the map and see the map peppered with these green spaces that are all part of the Cleveland Metro Parks. Now we will hone in on Cleveland and what you will see on the map is this green line. You have this brilliant Lake Erie to the north of Cleveland, and then just below you have this great green line. It's not straight, it's kind of like, like picture the bowl of a red wine glass, like a crescent moon that is lipped. That is what they call the Cleveland Metro Park's Emerald Necklace Trail, which Emerald Necklace is a far better description than I just gave. The Emerald Necklace Connects Scenic park at the north end of the Rocky River Reservation, goes through Millstream Run Reservation and east to Brecksville Reservation and through the Towpath Trail. So a lot of bicyclists and pedestrians. The trail is part of the Metro Park's extensive trail network of over 325 miles of trails across 18 park reservations spanning nearly 25,000 acres. All of that to say that this is an absolutely beautiful area. And what a great, wonderful space for the people living in the surrounding communities and the neighborhoods that weave alongside these parks.

[The Captain]

Yeah, and one of those people living close to this area is one of our victims, Kate.

[Nick]

That's exactly right within that Rocky River Reservation, right inside that beautiful park. This is located in the city of Fairview park in Cuyahoga County. Ohio, we have Nell, who's 40 years old. Kate was just 33 years old. They met there one afternoon, early evening, and during the course of their meetup, someone snuck up on them and fired three shots, boom, boom, boom, hitting all three shots, and left them there to die right there in the park. Now, some people out there say that to talk about this double homicide is to desecrate the park, this park, the Rocky River Reservation. And it is to desecrate the Metro Parks that so many people will have loved and so many much money and resources are expended to maintain these beautiful spaces.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

I think if you think that or say that, I. I say shame on you. The only thing that desecrates or desecrated this park is the man that walked in there and shot two lovely innocent people sitting on a park bench on a warm, sunny day and broad daylight.

[The Captain]

Now, if I'm correct, I think law enforcement believes that Carnell was hit first. Katie took off running. She was shot.

[Nick]

The breakdown of what some in law enforcement believe to have happened is that Carnell was shot first, possibly both shots fired first, and then Kate got up and was then shot, both of them at close range.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

Now, before we get into the details here, I want to, want to go through some stuff. The captain and I are revisiting this today for a multitude of reasons.

[The Captain]

Hold on, you're revisiting? I'm visiting for the first time.

[Nick]

Aaron and I took a look at this double homicide in April of 2023. But then unsolved Mysteries covered the case on their most recent release on Netflix with the October 2, 2024 release of Unsolved Mysteries, Volume 5. This was the first episode of Volume 5 titled The Park Bench Murders. It's a 43 minute look at the Metro Parks murders case. Now, I wanted to cover this again because, frankly, I was excited. I was thrilled when Unsolved Mysteries covered the case. Why? Because as I said in April of 2023, this is a very solvable case. I thought that because of the streaming show's big audience and the major players covering the story, not just some Ohio boys here, that the story would get churning on the Internet and the interest level would get cranked up to 11. But that didn't exactly happen. So maybe we can rally the troops and get this thing going.

[The Captain]

But also there's more and new information.

[Nick]

There's some information that we've uncovered. That's. That's correct. Now, I went back to my notes from 21 months ago, and I found a note in there that Says I love you. What do we title this episode? Episode 660. The Rocky River Murders. The Metro Parks Murders. We covered. We called the episode the Cleveland Metro Parks Murders. Unsolved Mysteries called it the Park Bench Murders. But now let's just call it what it is. It's unsolved. It's still unsolved to this day. And so to me, that's the biggest reason to revisit this case. It's unsolved. Now, of course, nothing is more sad than these two lovely people having their lives so senselessly cut short. But what is growing sadder and more desperate each and every single day is that these two families, Nell and Kate's loved ones, the people who loved them the most, cannot get justice for their son, their daughter, their sister, their brother, their grandson. They can't do it. They have tried their damnedest. Only the men and women of law enforcement can do that. And from what my eyes have seen and from what my ears have heard, having kept a watchful eye on this case Since June of 2019, I don't think that all of those persons have done their best effort. Some have, but maybe not all. And it takes a village, right? We say that about our children. It takes a village. Well, it took a lot of villages to build these beautiful parks. Let's unite and band together and solve this double homicide. Finally solve this double homicide. Because year after year we are so saddened and sickened to be seeing the same old news articles and video clips on the Internet that keep coming out about this unsolved case. Headlines like one year later, two families still seeking answers or family pleads for justice on three year anniversary of Rocky River Reservation double murders or four years in Rocky River Reservation Killer still has not been found. And then after five years, a new push in the investigation to solve the Cleveland Metro Parks murders. Well, let's not make it six years. Let's not have to have similar titles for articles and Internet stories on the six year anniversary. Let's say that we've got the killer. We, we've, we've made an arrest and we're working toward getting a conviction.

[The Captain]

Yeah, it's sad that these murderous douche canoes are ruining our parks.

[Nick]

Now, I didn't drive all the way here to the garage today just to scream into a microphone, I promise you. And we won't get into some of the discussions had on episode 660. If you want to go back and listen to that, it's sitting there available for free for you to listen to. But some of Those things that we talked about in episode 660 will steer away from, like the Letter from the Psychic, which was interesting to review in part because it was a fresh theory that went outside of the hate crime theory that had swirled early on in this case. We won't get into the digital detectives or how disappointed I was in the press conferences conducted by the Metro Park's police, or me screaming about how geofencing would solve the case in the matter of one afternoon. That is all there for your earballs in episode 660. Like the captain said, new information. We have done some digging, made some contacts, uncovered some information, all that was not available to us in April of 2023. And it's time to present this from a different angle and under a different spotlight. So let's proceed. Much has been made about Carnell, Nell and Kate's relationship. Was it romantic? And the answer, without knowing either of them directly, it seems to be a resounding no. I believe the best description we get is from the family. Seen on Unsolved Mysteries and in more recent local news coverage, the family state that the two shared about a decade long, on again, off again, very close friendship. Typically, when either were to be in a romantic relationship, they were not as close. Kate's family says that Nell was someone that Kate could lean on and did when she needed to. And Nell, ever the big brother, was always there to help her out. Let's go back to the day in question. This was Tuesday, June 4, 2019. It was a warm and bright sunshiny day. Both Kate and Nell worked. On this Tuesday, Kate arrives home from work and signs into her apartment's gym to work out. This is at 3:38pm Nell texts Kate at 4:02pm asking if she would like to get together. Law enforcement and the families agree that they do not know why the two were going to meet up.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

At 4:10pm Kate calls Nell and they talk for about 10 minutes. Nell leaves his place of work at 4:24pm and Kate leaves the gym at 4:31pm so at this time we know that they are both independently in their own vehicles driving to the park. We would learn on Unsolved Mysteries that an officer's dash cam picked up both what is believed to be both of the victim's vehicles. So this would be Kate's car at 5:01pm in Nell's vehicle, following shortly behind her at 5:03pm he, to provide a better description, he's not following her. He's about two minutes behind her. But they're traveling in the same direction and on this dash cam at least coming from the same direction. And this dash cam was just simply part of this officer's routine. It's set up in his patrol car and he was parked in the area. So this gives us some really good information though on about what time that they will arrive at the location in the park where they're later found dead because it is approximately only a two minute drive to the small gravel lot for this Lorraine Road, location of Rocky river from where they're spotted by the dash cam. So we can, based off of this information, we can surmise that the arrival of Both would be 5:03 and 5:05pm for Kate and Nell respectively.

[The Captain]

That's one of the fascinating things about this case is our timeline is really backed up and is solidified by our digital data timeline.

[Nick]

Nell's mother says that she believes that this was a last minute meetup. So she says something must have been going on. Somebody has something on the brain or somebody has something that is important and it's something that they need to address or felt that they needed to meet in person. And she also believes that the meeting was going to be very brief because she states that her son Nell had plans to meet her and her husband, Nell's father and some other family at grandma's house. So they're all meeting up for a family dinner. The plan was for a 5pm arrival. So he, he's already late by this point.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And this is an event that he said he was going to and, and he would regularly go to. Now one thing that we do need to point out too is that this would have been out of the way where, where he's meeting. He would then have to backtrack and travel in the opposite direction to get to his grandmother's house. So he goes from work to the park and then the guess is he, after the park, a short visit, he would then proceed on to grandmother's house.

[The Captain]

Now I've seen some people online speculate that this is very strange because like you said, he's already running late. To me, this is not that strange. You're meeting up with your family. It's not like you're heading to work. If you're a little behind, nobody's going to fire you.

[Nick]

Yeah, I, I think a lot of people will agree with this, especially if you're going to something where there's several other people attending as well. Like if it's, if it were only to be Nell. Right, going to grandma's house he probably would have wanted to make sure he was either on time or at least phoned her in advance and said, hey, something's come up. I might be 30 minutes late, but when, you know, other people are arriving, it's okay, hey, you know, I'll be 15 minutes, 20 minutes late. They probably won't even notice because they'll be engaged in conversation and chit chat and stuff until I get there.

[The Captain]

Well, I'm glad you see it the way I see it.

[Nick]

There you go. So at this point in our timeline, Captain, we have both Kate and Nell sitting together on a park bench. Now, one thing that I believe is crucial to this case and possibly to the answers to this case, is this park bench is visible from the road, the major road that's there and the gravel lot that comes off of this road. So they're sitting on this park bench. We can say shortly after 5:05pm because we, we can gather that Nell would have arrived after Kate and he would have pulled into this lot at 5:05pm and so they make their way to this, this park bench. The park bench is right there, just in front of the Rocky River. Police say that at 5:08, Kate unlocks her phone. They note this for good reason. This will mean that they haven't become under attack at this point. They're both alive and well at 5:08pm now, what we do know too is at 5:22pm there's a 911 call that is placed to dispatch by two kayakers. This is a timestamp that is crucial here. So two kayakers, this is a couple, a married couple show up and they're looking for a place to launch their kayaks. They unfortunately find the body of Nell first and then when they get closer, they see Kate lying in the shallow part of the river. So based on the movements of Kate and Nell, we can surmise that the kayaking couple arrive no later than 5:19pm they find the bodies when trying to find the spot to launch the kayaks. So garage math here, Captain, tells me we are looking at 11 minutes, a tiny little window of only 1111 minutes when someone walked up, likely from behind, shoots them from behind and flees. The kayakers say they heard no shots and so saw no one walking or leaving the area.

[The Captain]

Yeah, we have no eyewitnesses that see a vehicle leaving. Like you said, it is a parking lot, but it's gravel. Which also, if the killer was in a car, not only would you possibly see the vehicle, but you'd Hear it driving through the gravel. We have no eyewitness seeing that, but because this is a big park, it's like, did he escape through a pathway or did he escape through the waterway?

[Nick]

Yeah, that's the crime scene. The location does complicate the investigation. Now to, to talk further about this gravel lot. This is a small pull off lot. It's, it's not room for 20 cars or 30 cars. Like the captain had said earlier. We find out that the male victim was shot twice, the female victim shot once. The male was found lying face down next to the park bench. Kate, the female victim is found face down in the water. This is approximately 6ft in front of the park bench. There are cars in this gravel lot. Police are very quick to arrive on the scene. And this is quite interesting too. One of the first people from law enforcement to arrive on the scene is someone who will go on to be the lead detective for a portion of the investigation. And you can see they have his dashboard camera of him responding to the call and arriving to that gravel lot. This is minutes after the 911 calls received at 5:22pm Right. You can see on his dashboard cam that gravel lot and who's parked there. You can see a pickup truck. You can see Carnell's vehicle, you can see Kate's vehicle. You see the kayaker's vehicle, and you also see an additional vehicle which we now know who belongs who that vehicle belongs to. This is a male that arrived with a dog after the kayakers. So that vehicle wasn't there at the time of the murders. The kayakers arrived after the shots were fired, after the two were killed.

[The Captain]

But like you said, the pickup truck.

[Nick]

Was there at the time of the murders. The pickup truck was there, and the two victims vehicles were in this lot as well. And as we can see on the detectives dashboard cam, the pickup truck and victims vehicles and kayakers were all still there when he arrived on the scene. And keep in mind, I want to really hit this home for people that didn't watch the Unsolved Mysteries or don't live in this area and don't know this area. You can see the road and the parking lot from the park bench where the shots were fired. And also keep in mind that it's just after 5pm on a Tuesday. There would have been a good amount of traffic there on that road. And there's a bridge somewhat nearby that would have an angular but an overhead view of this park bench that runs the bridge, runs over the river. So there would have been traffic on that bridge at that time as well. The lack of eyewitnesses or ear witnesses is astounding in this case. Yeah.

[The Captain]

You think somebody driving by would have heard something or saw something. But we have these two kayakers. I wonder what they call their kayak. So there are eyewitnesses. We don't think they're ear witnesses, though. Right?

[Nick]

Exactly. No. They say they didn't see anybody on foot. They didn't see any bicyclists, they didn't hear any shots.

[The Captain]

So now we just got to look for the individual that owns this pickup truck.

[Nick]

Correct. And he's still on the scene when the police arrive. This is a individual that is referred to on Unsolved Mysteries as the roofer. He is going to become an intricate part of this story in my mind because the detectives say he's the first person of interest in the case because of a simple fact. We know he was there before, during and after the murders. Keep in mind, he's the only person that they can say at this time based off of evidence that he was there before, during and after the murders. Right. Like you said before we turned on the microphones. As far as we know, until we find somebody else, we only have three people that we know that were all there before, during and after the murders, and two of them are dead.

[The Captain]

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[Nick]

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[News Anchor]

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[Nick]

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[News Anchor]

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[The Captain]

All right, we are back. Tall cans in the air. Party to the people in the back. Thanks for telling your mother and thanks for telling your brother. Cheers to you, Colonel.

[Nick]

Cheers to you, Captain. Now I had said in episode 660 that there are cases that I think are more frightening. And of course all these cases and stories affect each and every one of us in a different manner. But due to the daylight public place nature of this case, I think this has a greater effect on the, on the overall masses. When you think about it, the parks are, some are, are areas that we all may frequent. They're all available to us. If you live in such a great area that that has these beautiful parks that you can go to and, and even scarier, bring your families to and you don't know who the others are that may be showing up as well because they're, they're open to the public. And so I had said on episode 660 that there are cases that I think are more frightening than others. And when we talk about a double homicide, this double homicide that takes place in broad daylight in a public place, it certainly makes one Pause and really acknowledge that unfortunately, this terrifying situation could happen to any of us at any time. And I said it again at the start of this show. They're shot and killed in daylight at a public place at a time of day when we had a good amount of traffic on nearby roads. Right, but people arriving at the park to kayak.

[The Captain]

Right, but what do we know about these killers? They get into these modes of seeking out opportunities. It's a form of hunting humans. In one of the cases, I remember them talking about this individual driving around and he's spotted at night on a college campus driving around, and they're like, what are you doing? And he's honest with them. I'm looking for opportunities. This is part of what happens. And if you think I'm the only one out there doing this, you're insane. And so I think there's. Because we've seen in the last 10 years how many cases have been connected to parks. I think it's a type of, well, let's go see if there's opportunity. Because there's people, and they're also in these parks. There's people in isolated areas. And so I think it's a form of looking for opportunities or just. I think some of these killers, they almost get off on the idea of just seeing that there's a possibility, well, that person could be a victim, that could be a situation. They might not always act upon it, but essentially what they're doing is hunting humans.

[Nick]

You know, we've known throughout history that there have been a lot of cases where a perpetrator goes and looks for a lone female jogger in parks. And I. I also think that there's a little bit of. I think there's a bit of a hyperbolic nature to the alarm raised on these murders that happen in parks. And I think a large part of that is because it gets the. The per. The people's attention, right. And it alarms everyone. And so while it's much more common to be killed on the streets or killed in. In a home by somebody that you know, these ones, these park cases tend to spread a little further and a little wider with the coverage because of the public interest nature of the cases. Now back to this roofer. As said by the detective, he was the first person of interest in the case because they knew that he was there before, during, and after the murders. Well, what was he doing? Well, he was there working in the area earlier that day, drove to find a place to park and to fill out work. He was going to be busy Doing paperwork is the best way to describe it. He was busy filling out work orders and estimates, and the Metro Police say that they took a really good look at him. Specifically, they say that they took a look at his electronics that he was carrying with him that day. This would be his cell. This would be his tablet. And he's working on a laptop or tablet in his cell phone, in his pickup truck after 5pm Parked in the parking lot, the gravel lot for this park, that afternoon, after 5pm and they say that based off of the electronics and the information on all of those electronics, that they can confirm that he was busy working on those activities during the time of the murders. So I guess they're saying his electronic devices are his alibi. Now, of course, they're going to ask him, did you see anything? Did you hear anything?

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And he tells police he didn't hear anything. Well, we know three shots were fired. He didn't hear anything. And on Unsolved Mysteries, Carnell's mother says, quote, I question that. And I think that's. I think she's right. I think she's spot on. I would question that, too.

[The Captain]

Well, do we have any way of knowing if a silencer was used in the killings?

[Nick]

That is something that has been brought forward and not ruled out by law enforcement. But I don't think that they have anything telling them if or if not a silencer suppressor was used in the commission of these murders. What. What they do tell us, though, is they are lacking a motive here in the case, because there's a couple things that really add to the complexity of this case. One, they don't know why the two were meeting there that day. The two victims.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

They do say that they've ruled out robbery as the motive because Nell's wallet and two cell phones were found in his vehicle in plain sight, like, just sitting on the passenger seat. To me, too, his two cell phones. He had a work cell phone and a personal cell phone. So he has no cell phone on him when he's sitting on the park bench. And he doesn't even have his wallet. All these items are in plain view on the passenger seat of his car. That, to me, backs up what the mother was saying, that she's like, I think this was just a quick, very brief, hey, we need to talk about something in person. And I'll be on my way to Grandma's house, because he didn't even bother to take his personal belongings out of the vehicle. And they also point out that. That they did retrieve Kate's cell phone at the murder scene. And I know we went into this a little bit earlier, but Nell was shot while sitting on the bench. You brought up an interesting angle that the killer may have come back and shot Nell once again. But we, we can figure out based off of the murder scene that Nell was shot while sitting on the bench. Kate had just enough time to stand up and probably attempt to flee. But if you look at the crime scene, yeah, she's almost like a caged animal at this point. Right? Like, she. There's nowhere for her to go. You have the. You have the river in front of her and the killer behind her. And so I don't even know that she had much of a chance to run because she, she gets up from the bench and then the killer strikes and she's found in the water just a few inches deep. I've seen at least one report saying it was about 10 inches deep where she was found in the river. So she may have just fallen in there or decided the best. The only place I can go is away from the killer is toward the river.

[The Captain]

But question to you, does the actions that we see at the crime scene tell you anything on who you believe the true victim was or was targeted?

[Nick]

Yeah, that's been a question over and over again. And some have suggested because Carnell was shot first that he was the target. My, my go to on this is typically. Look, unfortunately, females are targeted at a much higher percentage than males. And we do know in certain situations, actually, in many situations, if there is a female victim and male victim, the male victim poses the biggest threat to the attacker. And so oftentimes the attacker will try to eliminate the threat first and then go after the target. So that makes it, all of that thinking makes it very difficult to come up with who is the. The likely target here. And keep in mind, if this is completely random, then, right, they're just both the targets. You're not really going to be able to make any sense out of this. But to me, I, I feel like that most, most of these homicides are isolated incidents. And if it were to be that, I, I think that the prop. The percentages are going to tell you that Kate would have been the target. Carnell was the threat. The killer eliminated the threat. Cardinal was 6 foot 4, like 225, 230 pounds, big dude and athletic. Like, yeah, he, he's described as a big teddy bear because that was his personality. But to somebody that doesn't know him, six foot four, I mean, that's somebody that if Anybody was going to defend in that situation, it would be him.

[The Captain]

Yeah, I almost believe that if it was personable or if this was personal, then this would give time for Kate to know who the killer was. You see what I'm saying? So if you truly hated her and wanted her dead and was following her for some reason, and this was a park that she went to often and would go on walks and do other stuff, so somebody could have just been following her and said, hey, she's going to the park. This is an opportunity. But by taking out Carnell, she has at least time to go, oh, I know who my killer is. If this is a personal issue, but that's. If it becomes so complex and so convoluted that I don't know if you can even determine if it was a personal attack or not.

[Nick]

If she had enough time to even turn around. I mean, this, to me, looks like very much like a blitz attack. Now, we do know that the. One of the detectives who is reported to be either the first on the scene or one of the first officers on the scene, said that he believes that the most likely place that the killer came from were to be the. Either the parking lot or the road, which I would like to point out means almost coming from almost the exact same positioning. And he says that he believes that the evidence supports that the two victims were approached from behind and then shots were fired, three in total. And like we said earlier, the detectives seem less confident regarding the suspect's route of egress. All three bullet casings were found at the scene in the water. They had dive teams out there that night, and on at least two other occasions, no gun was ever found.

[The Captain]

Well, wouldn't that possibly be evidence that points that the shots came from the water? Or do you think it's a situation where the killer collected the casings and then dumped them in the water?

[Nick]

Now, the bench was so close to the water that I think there's. There would have been stippling on the. At least on Carnell, likely on. Likely on Kate as well, to suggest that this was fired at very close range. The park bench was very close. I mean, it's. She's found in the water six feet from the park bench. That's how close the water is to this park bench. I just. I think that the bullet casings just were expended and shot out the side of the firearm and fell into the water.

[The Captain]

Well, and obviously, if we have these kayakers that are looking for a place to start their kayaking journey, there's along a riverbed, you're going to find areas that go into the water and then ones that are more like little cliffs, if that makes any sense. So this area, like you said, it seems to be more like an entrance point to the water. So maybe it's even possible that some of these casings rolled down.

[Nick]

Yeah, or, I mean, who knows? I mean, the killer could have picked them up and tossed them into the water for all we know. But the report is that the. The casings were found in the water. Now, that's important, because what it will tell us, it doesn't tell us who the killer is, but it tells us what kind of gun they use, what kind of caliber they used. And they would have ballistics. Right. From. From the bullets, which, without getting into too much, are at the scene, obviously. And now you have the casings as well.

[The Captain]

Well, if I'm law enforcement and tell me if I'm wrong, I get to the scene, I have two dead individuals. We don't know why they were there. They're not a couple. They don't really have a history as far as, like, recent exes that were abusive. I mean, I think they have some exes in their past that you might want to look into, but I don't know if they're recent, if that makes any sense. You have these kayakers, and then we have this other individual, the roofer. And we know how the victims were killed. Yeah, by gun. So. Hey, guys, come down to the station with me. I'd love to give you a polygraph test. And as we do that test, I would also like to do some ballistics. I want to see if there was evidence of you firing a gun that day.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, ballistics would be conducted on a firearm, but no, you could test a person for gunpowder residue.

[The Captain]

That's what I meant.

[Nick]

On. On their hands or their person. You'd likely just their hands, but.

[The Captain]

So I was trying to sound sophisticated by using the wrong term.

[Nick]

In the aftermath of this here, Captain, what we end up with is a double homicide that remains unsolved. And the statements are all agreed upon by law enforcement that the two kayakers found the bodies a very short time after they were killed and immediately called 91 1. Prior to that, the killer escaped unnoticed and there were no witnesses. Right. We have the roofer. Says he didn't see anything, didn't hear anything.

[The Captain]

Okay, but. But based on what the kayakers say, where was the roofer when they showed up?

[Nick]

He's sitting in his pickup truck.

[The Captain]

So. Because I'M just okay if I'm just trying to be on his side. It's not out of the realm of possibilities. I've had plumbers, I've had construction people come to my house, handymen. They do some work. They have paperwork that they have to send back to their company. They might sit in your driveway for a while and do that. They might sit in your neighborhood. I've actually seen a couple that drive down the street a little bit and then just sit there and fill out their paperwork before they go to the next location. It's very possible that he knew of this park. He pulled in there and he turned on the radio and was blasting some tunes. Right. And then he just didn't hear anything and wasn't paying attention. His head was down the whole time. Yes, but why wouldn't you. Again, why wouldn't you just test to see if any of these three individuals fired a gun that day?

[Nick]

Well, and the thing here, too, is, to back up what you're saying is I have had one of those jobs that required at the end of the day, yeah, you're in a vehicle for, for all of the day. And then at the end of the day, you're required to fill out about a whole bunch of paperwork and enter information via your phone or a tablet. And it can take 45 minutes to roughly an hour. So oftentimes I would either go to like, a Wendy's and get like a coffee and just kind of sit there and, and fill it out. If, if it weren't such a nice day, but if it was a nice day out, we know this to be a nice day. I would find someplace nice, some place beautiful to park and just fill everything out in the vehicle, in the work vehicle. And so that appears to be what he was doing, or at least what he claims to have been doing. Now, the FBI and the families, they started off a reward for information. In this case, it started at $20,000. It was increased over time to eventually get up to $100,000. That there's some, some puzzling things that we're going to get into about the, the investigation and the case. But one thing that angered me that I expressed in episode 660 was the brown family put up signs at the park asking for tips. And these were brilliant signs. It was like, were you here or did you drive by on this date between 508 and 5 22? And these signs did lead to people calling in and providing tips. Now, the Metro Parks got angry about these signs because they don't want to advertise that two people were murdered in their park. And so the, the Brown family was forced to remove these signs, which I, I thought was absolutely ridiculous. If it. Look, if you want to, you can. Part of policing is, is proactive, right? But some cases, this one being a great example of that is reactive. There is, I can't see there being any way of preventing this crime from a police or the park's standpoint. So rather than trying to for the Metro park to want to hide and conceal this from the people that might visit the park because they want the people to feel safe and they want people to believe that the parks are safe, I think what would give off a better sense of security to the people in your community is that you solve the damn homicides, you find the person that did this, and you, therefore you are. It's instructive to others that there's a consequence for this type of action and it's going to be severe. That's the best way to be proactive for a case such as this. Now, in defense of the FBI, they did put up some billboards along busy highways with information about the case, requesting tips from the general public.

[The Captain]

So much more to get to in part two. Join us back here in the garage. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.

[News Anchor]

Foreign.

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