Robert Pickton /// Part 1 /// 768

Summary

True Crime Garage – Robert Pickton /// Part 1 /// Episode 768

Release Date: June 26, 2024
Hosted by: Nic and The Captain

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Episode Overview

In this gripping first installment, Nic and The Captain explore the chilling case of Robert Pickton—Canada’s most notorious serial killer. The episode focuses on Vancouver’s grim “Low Track” district, the alarming disappearance of dozens of women (many Indigenous and marginalized), and investigative failures that let a monster stay hidden for years. With detailed research and their signature garage banter, the hosts walk listeners through the systemic neglect, mounting suspicions, and disturbing discoveries that eventually brought Pickton to justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Low Track: Vancouver’s Dark Underbelly

[05:29 – 09:50]

• The Low Track is Vancouver’s downtown eastside, described as “the poorest neighborhood in all of Canada” and “Vancouver's equivalent of the infamous skid row.”
• The area is riddled with drugs, violence, homelessness, mental illness, and survival sex work—including a “kitty stroll” for underage prostitutes.
• Shocking stats: “A 1995 survey of Downtown Eastside’s working girls revealed that 73% of them entered the sex trade as children… 90% had lost children to the state. Fewer than half knew where their children were.” ([05:29])
• Women, mostly sex workers and many Indigenous, began disappearing from the area throughout the 1990s—often unnoticed due to transient lifestyles and social stigma.

Early Disappearances and Systemic Neglect

[09:50 – 16:45]

• Initial police response was lackluster—officers often dismissed cases as drug overdoses, movement, or “collateral to their chosen lifestyles.”
• Detective Dave Dixon narrowed down a list of genuinely missing women; “Every one of these women was a sex worker or drug addict, and many were of indigenous descent.” ([10:04])
• Detective Constable Lori Shenher (now Lorimer Schenner) took charge, advocating for the missing women when others ignored the mounting crisis.
• Sarah Devers, a victim, left a haunting diary entry:

  “Am I next? Is he watching me now? Stalking me like a predator and its prey, waiting for some perfect spot, time, or my stupid mistake? How does one choose a victim? Good question. If I knew that, I would never get snuffed.” ([12:37])

• Dr. Kim Rossmo, a pioneer in geographic profiling, suspected a serial killer based on statistical spikes in disappearances, but upper management refused to act.

  “I thought the only explanation for this was a serial murder case.” – Dr. Rossmo ([14:39])

Challenges Facing Investigators

[16:45 – 23:34]

• Lack of bodies or evidence made convincing superiors of foul play difficult:

  “No bodies meant no victims, and no victims meant no crimes.” – Nic ([16:48])

• Skepticism, resource constraints, and the perceived disposability of the victims led to a grossly underfunded and understaffed investigation.
• “Even though a couple detectives are pointing out, hey, this is a problem that we need to address. For the higher ups... it simply seemed not worth dedicating resources.” ([16:48–17:40])
• Police also considered infamous serial killers like Gary Ridgway (“Green River Killer”), Keith Jesperson (“Happy Face Killer”), and Robert Yates, but no link was ever established.

Possible Suspects & Local Investigations

[23:34 – 27:40]

• Ronald Richard McCauley, with a lengthy history of violence against sex workers, was one early suspect, but lack of direct evidence led nowhere.
• The list of missing continued to lengthen—“is this one individual or more than one?” ([25:22])

The Pickton Connection: A Tip Breaks the Case

[27:40 – 43:05]

• In 1998, William Hiscox tipped in that Robert (Willie) Pickton—pig farmer and co-owner of the “Piggy Palace” party hall—could be responsible for all the missing women.
• The Piggy Palace Good Times Society, a supposed charity, was actually the site of drug-fueled parties attended by local criminals and sex workers.
• Multiple informants told police about disturbing findings at the farm: women’s belongings, syringes, even “bloody clothing.”
• Tipster Lisa Yields alleged Pickton kept “trophies,” and that the farm was filled with danger and depravity.
• Detective Shenher began to focus on Pickton, learning he’d previously stabbed a sex worker. Surveillance on Pickton yielded nothing actionable, and efforts to tie him directly to the missing women repeatedly stalled due to unreliable witnesses and procedural dead-ends.
• Another tip, from Ross Caldwell, pointed to handcuffs in the bedroom, “strange meat,” and a female friend, Lynn Ellingson, witnessing a body “hanging from a meat hook” ([38:03–39:15]).

  “She walked into Robert Pickton's slaughterhouse, and instead of an animal, she sees a female body hanging from a meat hook. Pickton is there... cutting strips of flesh off of the legs.” – Nic ([38:03])

• Ellingson admitted being high each time on the farm and sought to blackmail Pickton, further complicating her credibility.

Police Inaction and Frustrating Delays

[41:03 – 45:02]

• Pickton even offered police consent to search his property—officers never followed up, citing scheduling excuses.
• Two 911 hang-ups from Pickton’s farm (1998, 1999) were dismissed as errors by responding police.

  “What poor woman had a moment to get her hands on a phone to call for help only to be cut off?” – The Captain ([42:47])

Breakthrough – The Arrest and the Farm Search

[45:02 – 54:51]

• In 2002, police finally searched Pickton’s farm after a tip linked to illegal firearm possession.
• The initial warrant was for guns, but during the search, they found an asthma inhaler and items belonging to missing women (Serena Abbotsway, Mona Wilson), immediately halting operations for a new, broader warrant.
• The 17-acre farm quickly became Canada’s largest crime scene.

  “Within hours, the Pickton property, 953 Dominion Ave, became the site of the largest crime scene search in Canada history.” – Nic ([47:57])

• The property was a sprawling wasteland filled with derelict vehicles, trash, and livestock—akin to the “Steven Avery property.” ([48:56])
• Pickton was first arrested on weapons charges, then on two counts of murder after overwhelming physical evidence was found.

Horrors Unearthed at the Pig Farm

[50:08 – 53:38]

• In Pickton’s trailer, police found:

  • Loaded .22 revolver with a dildo over the barrel
  • Ammunition, night vision goggles, handcuffs, a syringe with blue liquid, bloodstained women’s clothing, and four more inhalers issued to victim Serena Abbotsway

• In the slaughterhouse:

  “A brown garbage can had been inserted into the green garbage can. And when the brown one was removed, they found remains of Mona Wilson—submerged in a pink soup of decomposing human matter… two halves of Wilson’s skull along with her hands and feet… a .22 caliber bullet was found in the can with her remains.” – Nic ([51:47])

• Freezer discoveries: “Heads, hands, and feet of two more women… skulls sawed in half, hands and feet stuffed inside…”

  “The flesh was in advanced stage of decomposition.” ([52:32])

• Captain sums it up:

  “Pickton is like if you take Buffalo Bill, Ed Gein, and Dahmer and roll them all into one.” ([53:53])

• 22-month property search cost the Canadian government $70 million.

Systemic Tragedy & Reflection

[54:51 – 55:25]

• The hosts emphasize that the investigation was “about seven years far too late,” resulting in untold additional victims.
• Implicit in their discussion is the costs—not just financial, but human, in lives lost and trust betrayed by law enforcement neglect.

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Notable Quotes

• “No bodies meant no victims, and no victims meant no crimes.” – Nic ([16:48])
• “Am I next? Is he watching me now? Stalking me like a predator and its prey…” – Sarah Devers, victim ([12:37])
• “Even all these years later, we do not know how many people knew exactly what was going on or had an idea and just chose to… look the other way because of greed, drugs, or what have you.” – Nic ([54:03])
• “Pickton is like if you take Buffalo Bill, Ed Gein, and Dahmer and roll them all into one.” – The Captain ([53:53])
• “It took 22 months to search this property. And the cost to the Canadian government was $70 million.” – Nic ([54:51])

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• 05:29 – In-depth description of Low Track (downtown eastside)
• 10:04 – Detective Shenher takes over the missing women investigation
• 12:37 – Poignant diary entry from Sarah Devers, missing victim
• 14:39 – Dr. Kim Rossmo describes his statistical suspicion of a serial killer
• 16:48 – Systemic police neglect: “no bodies, no victims, no crime”
• 23:34 – Police consider notorious serial killers as suspects
• 27:40 – 1998 tip identifying Robert Pickton as suspect
• 38:03 – Chilling eyewitness account of a human corpse in Pickton’s slaughterhouse
• 41:03 – Repeated failures/fumbled opportunities by RCMP
• 45:02 – Pickton’s arrest via illegal gun charge and subsequent farm search
• 51:47 – Deeply disturbing discovery of human remains
• 53:53 – Hosts’ reflection on Pickton’s monstrousness and search scope
• 54:51 – Closing reflections on systemic failure and investigation’s human cost

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Memorable Moments & Tone

• The episode maintains True Crime Garage’s trademark mix of empathy, disgust, and gallows humor (“Cheers to you all—talk hands in the air!”).
• The hosts are candid, sometimes profane, in their frustration at systemic failings (“you lazy, fat pieces of shit. Do your job.” – The Captain, on police inaction, [41:03]).
• There’s a palpable sense of anger and grief for the victims—a community’s most vulnerable, neglected, and ultimately brutalized population.

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Listen for Part 2

The episode closes with the promise of part two, where the hosts will further dissect the evidence, Pickton’s trial, and the devastating fallout.

“And until then, be good, be kind, and don’t litter.”

Transcript

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[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always, is a man who loves sandal season. Here is the captain.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Just don't mind my toe fungus. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

This week we are excited to be featuring Bat Squatch by the good folks at Rogue Ales and Spirits. Bat Squatch is a delicious hazy India pale ale with a 6.7% ABV. For years rumors have circled that deep in the woods on Mount St. Helens lives the fabled Bat Squatch. While there are many tales of Bat Squatch, they are all a bit hazy on the details which makes the truth such a juicy mystery. This beer is dedicated to the legend garage grade 5 out of 5 bottle caps. And let's toast and cheers some of our good garage friends. First up we have a cheers to Raquel Hoffda from Vancouver, Washington.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

And a big we like your jib goes out to Rachel in Highland Park, Illinois.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Next we have a double fisted cheers to the headinger twins from Madison, Wisconsin. Wisconsin. And last but certainly not least, here is a big cheers to the late great FBI agent Brent Frost who is now in a better place. Agent Frost spent his life fighting for victims and in one particular case moved mountains to catch a killer and get justice for a young woman. Agent Brent Frost is a hero and we pour a little out for him today. Cheers to Agent Frost and his family and cheers to everyone who contributed to the Beer.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, BWW and beer run. Would you like to hear us talk more about the case? The boys on the tracks? Well, you can do so if you're signed up on Patreon or apple subscription. And Colonel, that's enough of the bees.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

All right, everybody, gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

[Narrator/Additional Voice]

Serial killer Robert Pickton. Six counts of second degree murder.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Serial killer.

[Narrator/Additional Voice]

26 women. Serial killer. Pig farm. Pig farm. Serial killer Robert Picked,

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Serial killer. Our true crime story this week starts off with the missing women from the Low Track. One by one, the women vanished. One day they're on the street, struggling to eke out an existence despite obstacles confronting their daily lives. And then the next day, they are gone. At first, maybe it was five women. But then five became 10 and 10 became 20. And the cycle continued. New girls and women found themselves on the streets of the Low Track. And then they too vanished. The women continued to disappear into thin air, never to be seen again. As the years passed, 30 missing became 40. As it turns out, some of these women were taken by a monster. A serial killer. One so evil that he mangled and disposed of their bodies in unspeakable ways. This is true crime garage. And this is the case of Canada's most notorious serial killer.

[Narrator/Additional Voice]

Serial killer Robert Pickton. Six counts of second degree murder.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Serial killer.

[Narrator/Additional Voice]

26 women. Serial killer. Pig farm. Pig farm.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Vancouver, Canada. A city on Canada's western coast, surrounded by mountains, famous for its ethnically diverse population of over 600,000 people within the city limits and 2.5 million in the greater Vancouver area. Like most large cities, Vancouver has its seamy side, but one historic part of the city, the downtown east side, is known as being one of the worst inner city environments in North America. This area, known as the Low Track, is the poorest neighborhood in all of Canada. And it is a hotbed of drugs and abuse, poverty, violence, mental illness, homelessness and sex work. This including underage prostitution. About 8,000 people live in this forsaken neighborhood and a large portion of the population of Low Track area is Aboriginal or first nation Canadians. The area was Described by Missing People.net as follows'No other slum or ghetto in the country matches the squalor of this ten block urban wasteland. With its rundown hotels and pawn shops, stained and fractured sidewalks, gutters and alleyways littered with garbage, used condoms and discarded hypodermic needles. End quote. The Low Track is Vancouver's equivalent of the infamous skid row. Drug gangs stake out their territory. Drug addicted Women sell their bodies to pay for drugs. And the neighborhood has the highest HIV infection rate in North America, with an estimate 25% of the population being infected. One of the most disturbing aspects of the low track is the so called kitty stroll where child sex workers walk the streets prostituting themselves to whoever comes along again. According to missingpeople.net, a 1995 survey of Downtown Eastside's working girls revealed that 73% of them entered the sex trade as children and the same percent were unwed mothers, averaging three children each. Of those, 90% had lost children to the state. Fewer than half knew where their children were. Sometime in the early 1990s, no one is really sure exactly when, but female sex workers and or drug addicted women started disappearing from the low track. Of course, it is impossible to say when the first disappearance occurred or who was the first victim to vanish. This area was constantly seeing transient people coming in and out, dying of disease or drug overdoses, and living under the radar with no fixed addresses, and sometimes evading law enforcement themselves. Of course, some women surely just moved away without leaving a forwarding address, died of natural or from drugs. But eventually, around the mid-90s, people familiar with the low track began to notice that there was seemingly a discernible pattern of downtown Eastside women disappearing without a trace. Specifically, In September of 1998, an Aboriginal group sent the Vancouver Police Department a list of victims allegedly murdered in downtown Eastside with a demand for a thorough investigation. Authorities examined the 40 person list and ruled out some as some of the listed victims had died from disease or drugs and others had left Vancouver and were found to be alive and elsewhere. But Vancouver PD Detective Dave Dixon drew up a smaller list of low track women who seem to have simply vanished. Many of them had disappeared in 1997 and the summer of 1998. He came up with 17 names. Then Detective Dave Dixon inspired the VPD to create an investigative task force. The official search for Vancouver's missing women began.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

So like you were saying, some of these individuals were found. So the question becomes, do we actually have a problem? So in July of 1998, they are going to open up an investigation to figure out do we have a problem?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

That's exactly right. And the person that's going to head up this investigation, her name is Lori Shenher. She's a Vancouver detective constable that had experience with the sex workers of the low track. Lori had worked the streets posing as a prostitute to catch and arrest johns who canvassed the low track. She had seen the worst of it. By this time, the violence and degradation these women were subjected to on a daily basis. She also was acutely aware that the Vancouver Police Department officers who were assigned to the rundown area were generally callous to the situations of the women they were supposed to protect, often ignoring their complaints as either deserved or simply collateral to their chosen lifestyles. But by late 1998, the situation could no longer be ignored. We already talked about Detective Dixon. Well, Dixon continued to update his list and reported that the list now contained the names of 35 missing women. Every one of these women was a sex worker or drug addict, and many were of indigenous descent. Keep in mind, this is a detective who has already sorted out the persons who died of natural causes or died from disease or drugs or moved out of the area. He's only putting people on this list that are truly missing. Detective Laurie Shinhur, no longer with the Vancouver Police Department, now goes by the name Lorimer Schenner, would later write a book about the years spent on the missing women investigation. And one of the assertions made in the book called the Lonely Section of Hell, is that few in the VPD appear to take these missing women cases seriously. The low track was a non priority area, and these women considered to be the dregs of society, were just not important. But the citizens, the good citizens in the area were convinced that there was a malevolent force at work and they were scared. In December of 1995, a young drug addicted sex worker named Sarah Devers wrote in her diary, quote, am I next? Is he watching me now? Stalking me like a predator and its prey, waiting for some perfect spot time or my stupid mistake? How does one choose a victim? Good question. If I knew that, I would never get snuffed. Sarah was reported missing in April of 1998, and her name became the 17th on the list of truly missing women. It's not clear when thoughts of a serial killer began to materialize. Detective Laurie Shenher says now that at the time, VPD did not believe that one person was responsible for the disappearances of all of these women. The only common thread between the victims were that they were engaged into the sex trade and had drug dependencies. There did not seem to be any other similarities. And the Vancouver Police Department stated publicly that they did not believe a serial killer was responsible. But according to the BBC, despite the lack of any tangible evidence whatsoever, several officers within the Vancouver Police Department began to suspect that a serial killer was in fact at work. One of them was Detective Inspector Dr. Kim Rossmo, the first police officer in Canada to obtain a doctorate and criminology. Rossmo was the creator of geographic profiling technique designed to map unsolved crimes and highlight any pattern or criminal signature that might have gone overlooked by detectives assigned to individual cases. By mid-1998, Rossmo noticed that the number of missing women had started to grow to anonymous levels in 1996, 1997 and 1998. And he felt that the increases were statistically significant. He said, quote, I thought the only explanation for this was a serial murder case, end quote. But when Rossmo took his findings to the officer in charge of the Major Crimes Division, he was told that because the women tended to live transient lives, it was more likely that they had just drifted away. Rossmo didn't buy this explanation. His experience was that although the women were drug users and poor, they still maintain strong ties to families, friends, and the community. And they did not typically just disappear.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

But those are haunting statements from the sex worker when she is saying, questioning herself, is this individual looking at me? Are we being hunted? I think what makes this even more. And I think what would make it even more frightening for these workers would be the idea that you do not know if you know this individual or not. Has this person been a john with you before, or is this a mysterious person that once you get in their car, you never return?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Whoever it is, if it's one person or multiple people, they are taking people that you know, these people, however you want to describe their lifestyles or their occupation, if you will, these are essentially their colleagues, people that they see day in and day out, night after night, and they're vanishing. And the problem here, though, for law enforcement, and as far as, you know, law enforcement has things to be concerned with. Victims in the community are their number one concern, or should be. But they also are concerned with things like budgets, resources, manpower, women, power, that kind of thing. And so they have a lot of things to. That are incorporated in the business that they are running of keeping the streets safe and keeping the community safe. So the problem for law enforcement will be, even though a couple detectives are pointing out, hey, this is. This is a problem that we need to address.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

And it also seems like a problem that's ramping up.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes, but for the higher ups, truly, no bodies meant no victims, and no victims meant no crimes. These women were unpredictable. The victims were unpredictable and rootless. It seems now, and there are many that will agree with this statement in Canada from the BBC and persons in law enforcement in the Vancouver area, that they simply believed that it wasn't worth Dedicating resources to trying to find them or to figure out if there truly was someone or someone's killing these individuals. Because again, no bodies meant no victims. No victims meant no crime. We have other things and other problems to be concerned about. As we noted, as it seems these women were considered to be very low priority by vpd and they were hard to track because of their homelessness, addiction issues, and transient lifestyles. The most that VPD was willing to do was to offer up a reward for information on the missing women on the VPD's list and provide a skeleton staff for a new missing persons review team established in May of 1999. And this was headed up by Lori stener. Rossmo was demoted, eventually resigned from the force after voicing his concerns about a possible serial killer. Despite detectives like Shinhur and Rossmo, the missing women investigation remained underfunded, understaffed, and under prioritized. This remained the case even though detective Dixon's list contained the names of 33, 0 women who were never seen again. And that number, as the captain pointed out, kept growing. It wasn't just that the VPD wasn't committed to finding these women that impeded the investigation into the disappearances. There were often no specific dates for when these women went missing. Their pimps, fellow sex workers, and dealers refused to cooperate with police, making tracking the women almost impossible. There were no bodies, there was no evidence, and there was no indication even that foul play had occurred. All the detectives had was a list of names establishing a pattern and a hunch. And yet the list continued to grow to over 40 women by the early 2000s. Women were taken at an alarming rate between 1997 and 2001, and no signs of them were or their bodies were ever seen again.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

And what an odd situation. It seems like you have half the police department where they're like, doesn't matter, who cares? And the other half going, hey, something's not right here. But I can't prove to the other side that something's not right. There's no body that I could point to to say, look, we have somebody kidnapping these victims and killing them. So this is a very odd situation.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, and not only do you have this list of names that keeps growing of these missing women, but think about everything that's going on in this neighborhood, right in this world, and the lives that are being led by the victims and the bad guys that are their dates, Right? So within this group, you are going to have men that will victimize these women in other ways that don't lead to them being missing or murdered.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So when you look at this and you try to establish is there a problem here? You have no bodies, you have no dates, specific dates for one, when a person goes missing. And then to top that off, you have all these johns who a percentage of that, that population is victimizing these women in other ways. So now if there is a suspect or you're looking for a suspect, you've got a giant group of people that that pool is too large. Even more frustrating to the police were the attacks by anonymous johns who could not be identified. Right. So you have johns that you've identified and johns that are unidentified who may have smacked a woman around, beat up a girl. On August 10th of 2001, Vancouver Police announced their search for an unidentified rapist who attacked a 38 year old victim outside of her Low Track hotel a week earlier. During the attack, police spokesman said the man claimed responsibility for sexually assaulting and killing other women in the downtown Eastside area. The victim had escaped by leaping from her rapist's car. She was able to offer a description to authorities, but they were unable to find him. He was just one of the many faceless men who visited the Low Track area for drugs and anonymous sex. Detectives also looked extensively at known serial killers from other areas who could possibly be responsible for at least some of the missing women. They were particularly interested in Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer who was responsible for the disappearance of 49 women with a similar victimology in Seattle. He was identified through DNA. In 2001, the VPD discovered that he had visited Vancouver but were unable to establish any connection between Ridgeway and the missing Low Track women. Authorities also took a hard look at Keith Hunter Jesperson. Jesperson, a long haul trucker who traveled widely across North America and killed at least eight female sex workers and transients he encountered while on the road. Jesperson was nicknamed the Happy Face Killer for the smiling cartoon signature on letters he sent to police and the media. At one point he claimed to be responsible for 160 murders, describing his female victims as piles of garbage dumped on the roadside. Once again, however, no link could be found between Jesperson and the vanished Low Track women. And the disappearances continued after the Happy Face Killer was put away. Police also considered Robert Yates who was convicted in October of 2000 of killing 13 prostitutes around the Spokane, Washington area. He was also suspected of two more murders in the neighboring county. But Yates could not be placed in the city of Vancouver for any of the Low Track disappearances.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

So law enforcement had some suspects to look into, but they weren't local. But they did find a local guy that they thought was a decent suspect.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, Looking closer to home they were very suspicious of 47 year old Ronald Richard McCauley who had spent a decent amount of time in prison about 17 years, this for a 1982 conviction. He was paroled in 1994. And so that lines up with the timeline that they are looking at here. He's out on the streets for the time in question and he falls on their list because he had several sexual assaults for rape, beating up sex workers and he was declared by the state a dangerous offender. Eventually he does return to prison in the mid to late 90s though. So he's one of these guys that he's only out for a period of time. He's on their list one because of his background, his previous crimes. But there were four women whose bodies actually were found. Right. We're talking about a list of women whose bodies that were not found being the concern in trying to develop some type of investigation on that front. But in this case, as far as this suspect's concerned, he is in question for four women's bodies that were found near where he lived. In July of 1997, Vancouver Police declared McCauley a suspect in the 1995 disappearances of those four women whose names were part of this list of missing low track women. But again, bodies that were actually found,

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

well that's a difficult thing when you have a list that's growing. You have to start asking yourself as law enforcement, is this one individual that's responsible for all these disappearance or is it more than one?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, and that's going to be an issue that will never really fully resolve itself in this case. There's still good reason to have questions about this even as everything sits today. They couldn't prove a case for murder against McCauley in the disappearances of these four women. But what does take place? As this investigation kind of drags on and drags on, another suspect emerged that drew in everyone's focus. In late 1998, Lori Shenhur, the detective who was leading the early stage limited resource missing persons investigation learned that the Crime Stoppers tip line had recently received a call with a tip. The tip stir was William Hiscox, a 37 year old widower who had turned to drugs and alcohol before finding a job at a place called P and B Salvage. This was a business owned by Robert Pickton, who was known to many as Willie. This business is owned by Robert Pickton, known as Willie and his brother David Pickton, both who lived in Port Coquitlam. Hiscox foster sister was dating Robert Pickton at some period and that's how he gets the job. So in a follow up call to this tipster, the tipster named Pickton as someone who could be responsible for all of the missing Vancouver women. This tip isn't saying you know one or two of the women on your list. This guy that I'm calling about could be responsible for all of the missing Vancouver women. Hiscox described the Pickton Brothers Pig Farm as a creepy looking place which was patrolled by a vicious 600 pound bull.

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[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

All right, we are back telling the story of pig Vomit. Cheers to you all. Talk Hands in the air.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

According to this tipster, the Pickman Brothers also ran a supposed charity that they had created, the Piggy Palace Good Times Society, which was in fact registered with the Canadian government in 1996. As a nonprofit society intended to, quote, organize, coordinate, manage and operate special events, functions, dances, shows and exhibitions on behalf of service organizations, sports organizations and other worthy groups. End quote. Hiscox, the tipster, said the special events that took place at the Piggy palace, which was really just a converted building on the Hog Farm, he's saying these special events were really just drunken and drug fueled raves attended by hundreds of partiers, including members of the Hell's Angels. And the entertainment that was provided, it was by downtown Eastside sex workers that were brought in en masse for these parties. Hiscox said that he had been told by a female friend that she had seen random women's handbags, identification cards and bloody clothing at Pickton's farm. The source was a woman named Lisa Yields who told Hiscox that Pickton was creepy and could be responsible for the missing women that the public and the media were talking about. Lisa Yields told Hiscox that Pickton had a bunch of syringes even though he didn't use drugs, and that the items she had seen on his farm were his trophies.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

But this is beyond bizarre. I mean, can you imagine you're working the streets and the next thing you, you know, you're on this creepy farm going into the Piggy Palace. This is just beyond bizarre.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Unfortunately, this has happened in multiple cities around the world and more commonplace than any of us would like to think. And I've talked about this before, and it's the God's honest truth. Drugs are fueling for some of these persons that end up there for this party or the raves. Drugs are fueling and driving and steering the ship on a lot of the decisions being made. So being told that you're going to get paid a little bit of money to go to a party and get drunk and party with some people or being told that you'll be given drugs or there's free drugs there will bring people to this Piggy palace, however undesirable it is. So they start doing some digging on this Picton. He's got an arrest record. They start checking out the police run ins with the Piggy Palace. And Detective Shinner becomes convinced that Robert Pickton was a good suspect for at least some of the missing women. So she contacts the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, specifically the officer who had arrested and charge Picked in in a 1997 attack on a sex worker. This is when Pickton had stabbed a sex worker on his farm. So the farm is under Mountie jurisdiction. Nothing had come of this attack, though prosecutors eventually Refused to press charges because they felt that the victim was not convincing she was a heroin addict. Detective Stener pushed for picked in to be arrested, but only got an agreement to place picked in under surveillance for three days during a period from October 1st to October 10th of 1998. So three day period during that period of time. On the RCMP surveillance request form picked in suspected criminal activity offense is listed as. Information of unknown reliability reveals that this subject is responsible for the disappearance of female prostitutes in Vancouver, Barnaby and New Westminster. He apparently brings them to his residence whereupon they are killed. Unfortunately, Captain, nothing came of this surveillance. RCMP continued to surveil Pickton on and off, Observing him driving in slow circles in downtown Port Coquitlam, Visiting a rendering facility and going into a hotel. But nothing criminal was observed during these surveillance periods. Eventually, police became aware that Pickton knew he was under surveillance.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

It'd be hard to run surveillance on Picton because one, the farmland is large and there's probably a lot of places to hide. And he probably knows these little shortcuts from one building to the next. So if he, if he doesn't want you to know where he's at on that farm, I'm sure he could disappear pretty quickly.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

The easy part of the surveillance is you only need to patrol and catch him picking up a sex worker downtown. Because that is what the. The inquest form, the inquiry form is stating. We believe this guy's picking up sex workers downtown, taking them back to the farm and then they're never seen again. So that's what you're hoping to catch him in the act of. Because that. Well, not, not completely. Right. I hope the detectives aren't going. Well, if she never comes back, we know we got our guy. Just picking up the sex worker would still be a crime. And you're hoping that that would give you the opportunity to investigate and search that large area like you pointed out. Because that's what you really need to do is get your feet on that ground and be looking around to figure out what is going on there. When. When he wasn't surveilled or could not be surveilled like you're pointing out. In early November of 1998, our good detective gave two photos of picked in to the D I S C. This is deter and identified sex trade customers to show to women engaged in the sex trade to see if any could identify him as, quote, a bad date. Okay, so this is a good technique, but it's a little bit flawed Because a bad date somebody could get that title numerous ways. Some of them just don't pay the sex worker. Some of them rob the sex worker. That's not what we're looking for. We're looking for someone that is causing them to disappear and never come back.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

But like you said, he had these parties, and girls would go out and work the party and then they'd come back.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes, I mean, they're showing up in droves to some of these parties. And there's. Robert Pickton and his brother are not the only two being entertained at these parties. In 99, another source came forward with a gruesome story, this one also about Robert Pickton, which verified much of what had been related to them by the previous tipster. This individual is named Ross Caldwell. The source said he had seen handcuffs in Pickton's bedroom and a special freezer in his barn from which he had served, quote, strange meat, which he believed could have been human. This source also referenced a female friend, Lynn Ellingson, who had regularly accompanied Pickton to the downtown east side to help him pick up women. Apparently Picked and had more luck getting women to accompany him if he had a female accomplice. He added that Pickton would often wear wigs when he went to the low track area to pick up prostitutes. Now, whether this is because Pickton was balding or in an attempt to disguise his identity, we. We just don't know. And Caldwell didn't know as well.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, you know how somebody works at a pizza shop or some fast food restaurant that they end up kind of stinking, and it might be kind of a pizza smell, but it's overwhelming. I couldn't imagine what an individual would smell like working on a pig farm all day.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Exactly. Well, part of this tip, too, the most alarming part of this tip, and it has some credibility, and I can explain why. But Caldwell, the tipster, is saying that his female friend, the one that gave him the information Ellingson, had told him that she walked into Robert Pickton's slaughterhouse, and instead of an animal, she sees a female body hanging from a meat hook. Pickton is there in the slaughterhouse, standing beside it, cutting strips of flesh off of the legs.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Jesus.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

The credibility, or what would make this seem to be a credible tip, was that Ellington explained to Caldwell that she, up until this point in her life, did not realize that human fat was yellow in color, and which, in fact, it is. Pig fat is white. So that gives us a little bit of credibility here. And in the wake of this tip, the Mounties attempted to question Lynn Ellingson twice, the person that provided the information to Caldwell, who eventually went to the police.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

But both times, she refused to talk and denied the story about the body in the barn.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

It turns out, probably afraid for her life.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, I thought that initially as well, but it turns out that she had attempted to blackmail.

[Foreign Language Speaker]

Picked him.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

So she's. She's going to try to make some money off of what she's seen.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, if I saw a woman hanging by meat hooks, I don't think I would be trying to blackmail that guy.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

She tells the police that when she was on the farm, every time that she was on the farm, she was high on cocaine or some form of narcotic. I guess this is a way for her to explain away what Caldwell is reporting to them. Yeah, I might have told him that, but I was high every time. I was messed up every time I was on that farm, you know, so they. I'm not saying that they looked the other way, because the RCMP officers did visit Pickton's farm after receiving this information to interview him. This took place on September 1, 1999. He wasn't home, but when they reached him by phone, he agrees to be interviewed. But it would have to be at night, he says, because he worked constantly during the day. Now, this. This is where you get angry, right? Like you're okay, well, your hunch tells you I should investigate this. Even though the witness claims to be high all the time, when. While on the farm. He's a piece of shit. I don't know how much credibility to give to this claim. And now she's kind of refusing to talk. So I don't have a lot of information here, but they must have had a hunch if they went to the farm. They must have had a hunch. If they get him on the phone, he says, yes, I can talk to you in the evening. These detectives say, well, we don't work in the evening.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. You lazy, fat pieces of shit.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Do your job. It seemed like that was going to be the major speed bump in talking to this individual. Now, David Pickton, the brother, intervened, and the negotiations about the when and where of said interview, he put in his two cents, saying, you know what, officers? You can come back during the raining, the rainy season, because right now, we're just too busy working all the time. So for some reason, it appears that the RCMP complied with this request from the Pickton brothers, and this caused a big delay in talking to them. So four months later, on January 19th of 2000 RCMP officers finally interviewed Robert Pickton and he denied of course, any involvement with the missing women, much less killing anyone. What is most shocking is that Pickton did consent to a search of his property at that time. But for reasons that are unknown, the RCMP failed to take him up on this invitation. Robert Pickton stayed under the radar and women continued to disappear. That's in January of 2000. Another officer interviewed Pickton on his farm in March of 2001. But nothing came of this either. It came out much later that a 911 hang up call from Picton's trailer had been received on August 12, 1998. But the responding officer decided that everything appeared fine and concluded that it was simply an error. A second 911 call came in in May of 1999 from Picton's property. Police investigated but saw nothing out of the ordinary.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

So question. Do you think these 911 calls are coming from victims?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yeah, I wonder what poor woman? Or both cases? What poor woman had a moment to get her hands on a phone to call for help only to be cut off? Right. The call is cut off and then simply forgotten about.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

As law enforcement, you have this suspect, but he's, he's being cooperative. He's saying, I'll talk to you, but it's going to have to be at night because I work and you would love to get a search warrant. But if the only eyewitness is saying, well, I was, I was on drugs, I was just making shit up, it's probably pretty hard to go to a judge and get a search warrant with those types of claims.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

By February of 2000, the Vancouver Police Department and the RCMP continued to focus on their list of persons of interest. So they are looking at it. You know, we can, we, we can and should critique that investigation along the way. But they're, they're, they're also receiving a lot of criticism and a public uproar for a real investigation to take place about the, all of these missing women. So it's almost like reaching a crisis point by February of 2000. This is when finally Vancouver Police Department and the Mounties formed a joint task force titled Project Even Handed. This was to coordinate and facilitate this investigation into the missing women. This was the task force that interviewed Gary Ridgeway and the other serial killers that we spoke about. The task force notes indicate that they had some serious suspicions about Robert Pickton. He had been the subject of those two tips that we talked about. He had been accused of assault in 1997. He had a known history of violence towards sex workers. He tended to pick up prostitutes in one of his several vehicles and bring them to his property. The list goes on and on and on with this individual. But it seems like in retrospect, Project Evenhanded continued to largely put Robert Pickton as a great suspect on the back burner.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, old Robert Pickton is going to go from the back burner to the front burner.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

And unfortunately, and I wish that I wouldn't have to say that this seems to be par for the course for this investigation, but Robert Pickton would eventually be arrested. He will be brought down not because of a missing woman. He was looked at because of an illegal gun purchase. Right. They already had all these tips. They had evidence seemingly under their noses, but it was because of an illegal gun purchase. RCMP Constable Nathan Wells was investigating the street drug trade, and he got picked name from this guy named Scott Chubb. Wells then ran picked his name through the police computer and found that Pickton. The Picton file contained a note to contact Vancouver police. Okay, so they made a note on this guy. If anybody's looking at him for anything at all, contact Vancouver pd The RCMP obtained a warrant to search his property for an unlicensed firearm or any unlicensed firearm, not just the one that they were looking for. And arrangements were made to have two members of Project Evenhanded Task force on hand for the search. This was executed in February of 2002. February of 2002. This problem's been going on since the mid-90s. And picked in was on their radar since at least 1997. From all the information that I've found, RCMP officers and task force members entered the farm and picked in trailer. One of the officers noted an asthma inhaler labeled with the name of one of the missing women on the task force list, Serena abbotsway. Some other items appearing to belong to women on the missing women's list were found as well. This including wallets and clothing. Officers stopped the search immediately. And the next day, task force officers obtained their own warrant. Remember, I don't know how things work in Canada, but here in the United States, your warrants need to be quite specific. You don't want this thing to get jammed up and all gummed up in the court system because you were in there collecting things that weren't on your original search warrant. Remember, they're only there looking for illegal firearms and they're finding evidence of other crimes.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

So that search warrant got their hooves in the door, and now they're finding more evidence to connect him because he's the primary suspect. And the missing girls cases. So what you're saying is now they have to go back to the judge and say, hey, we're not just looking for illegal firearms. We're also looking for evidence in these other cases.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Yes, missing women and potential murder. So within hours, the Picton property, the address here is 953 Dominion Ave became the site of the largest crime scene search in Canada history. This farm was actually not operational, despite being referred to as a pig farm for ever since I can remember. Much of it was utilized by Mr. Pickton's brother Dave for a topsoil business and as a dump site for waste from his demolition operation. The company's name was DNS Bulldozing. So this property's filled, as you pointed out, Captains Large property. It's filled with older vehicles that were stripped for their parts. These are just kind of strewn about the property. So the property in Large resembles a junkyard with roaming animals, garbage and decrepit structures dotting the landscape.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

It's like the Steven Avery property.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Robert Pickton was, as we said, arrested, but he was originally charged with the weapons offenses. This takes place February 7th, but then he's arrested again later that same month and is charged with two counts of first degree murder. This is for the murders of Serena abbotsway and Mona Wilson. Both names appeared on the missing women's list. And these women disappeared in 2001. Remember, he's on their radar at 1997. By the time picked him was arrested in 2002, at least another 14 women were had been murdered. And by that point we have 55. Zero women are on that list.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

You know when you're watching a scary movie and you cover your eyes and then you make a little gap in your fingers so you can see what's going on? That's the part of the story I feel we're at. There's a part of me that doesn't want to hear the evidence they found on the farm. And there's another part of me that does want to hear it. So what did law enforcement find on the Piketon farm?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, you are right to cover your eyes, but in this situation, you probably should cover your ears. The answer is truly horrifying and beyond words in my opinion. So during a search of Pickton's trailer, right, we're not talking about the property at large.

[Narrator/Additional Voice]

Right.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

We're talking about his trailer where he lived, lived and slept. They found a loaded.22 revolver with a dildo stretched over the barrel they found boxes of.357 Magnum handgun ammunition, night vision goggles, two pairs of faux fur lined handcuffs, a syringe with 3ml of blue liquid inside. Spanish fly aphrodisiac, women's clothing and makeup, some of it stained with blood. Duct tape, blood stains. Four more inhalers, all issued to murder victim Serena abbotsway in the loft. So we'll go to his workshop. In the loft of a workshop on the Property, investigators found a.357 Magnum handgun. So this one's hidden and concealed. Unlike the dildo covered. 22 that we talked about, this one I presume to be the illegal firearm that they were looking for because this is the one that was hidden and concealed. One of the constables who was present for the search tried to describe just how horrified she was at the sights and smells, I guess coming from this pig farm that's no longer in operation.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Stacy Pig.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

She described seeing neglected animals on the farm. And I'm not going to go too in detail with that. You can find that information if you want to hop on the old computer machine and do some research. But one part in particular, and this would be the finding of human remains, which obviously makes him, Robert picked in prime suspect number one. So here's, here's a description for you of, of this find. It's a graphic photo. A picture of the contents of a green garbage can that was found in the slaughterhouse next to Robert Pickton's trailer that he lived in. A brown garbage can had been inserted into the green garbage can. And when the brown one was removed, they found remains of Mona Wilson again, who disappeared in December of 2001. They're discovered inside, submerged in a pink soup of decomposing human matter. There were two halves of Wilson skull along with her hands and feet. And a.22 caliber bullet was found in the can with her remains. In addition to the remains in the garbage can which belong to who knew how many women, the heads, hands and feet of two more women were found in large pails in a freezer in Picton's workshop. Investigators had been drawn to this freezer because of an overpowering smell emanating from it. The women's skulls had been sawed in half and their hands and feet had been stuffed inside those halves. The flesh was in advanced stage of decomposition.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

What a sicko.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Once these absolutely disgusting and mind boggling finds were discovered, authorities swarmed the 17 acre property and then conducted the largest search in Canadian history.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Piketon is like if you take buffalo Bill, Ed Gein, and Dahmer and roll them all into one.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Well, he's got a lot of resources, unfortunately, and it seems like he was able to operate without any detection at all. I mean, yeah, we have some surveillance, we have a couple police visits, but 17 acres. The shock here and the surprise here is he didn't live there alone. His brother lived there with him. And as we talked about, there were all these parties at the Piggy palace, right? And that's why we sit here and we say, even all these years later, we do not know how many people knew exactly what was going on or had an idea and just chose to either look the other way because of greed, drugs, or what have you. But in the end, Captain, it took 22 months to search this property. And the cost to the Canadian government was $70 million.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Jesus. And how many lives could they have saved?

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

Immediately and truly about seven years. Far too late. However you'd like to look at it. An announcement came from Vancouver Police Department about the developments in the missing women's case. And they announced the arrest of Robert Pickton.

[The Captain (Co-host of True Crime Garage)]

Join us back here in the garage for part two.

[Nick (Host of True Crime Garage)]

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