Robert Wone /// Part 4 of 4

Summary

True Crime Garage - Episode: Robert Wone /// Part 4 of 4

Release Date: December 4, 2024
Hosts: Nic and the Captain
Guest: [Guest Name Not Provided]

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Introduction

In the gripping finale of their four-part series on the mysterious case of Robert Wone, the hosts of True Crime Garage, Nic and the Captain, delve deep into the unresolved aspects of the case, analyzing the complexities that have left both the public and the legal system baffled. Joined by a knowledgeable guest, they dissect the intricacies of the trial, the evidence presented, and the lingering questions that continue to shroud this true crime story.

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Background of the Case

On August 2, 2003, in Washington, D.C., tragedy struck at a residence on Swan Street. Four men were present in the home that night: three residents and one visitor, Robert Wone, who was found dead under suspicious circumstances. The subsequent investigation led to allegations against the three roommates—Victor, Dylan, and Joseph—who were accused not directly of murder but of conspiracy and obstruction of justice related to the events of that night.

Nic sets the scene:

"At the home on Swan Street in Washington, D.C., that night before midnight, we have four men in one home... The visitor ends up dead."

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The Trial: Conspiracy and Obstruction of Justice

The trial that ensued did not focus on murder charges but rather on the alleged cover-up orchestrated by the three roommates. The prosecution presented evidence suggesting that the trio concealed critical information, altered the crime scene, delayed calling paramedics, and misled law enforcement agencies.

The Captain reflects on the difficulties of prosecuting multiple defendants:

"Are all three people involved? Are all three people responsible, or is it just two people, or is it just one person?"

Despite the extensive efforts by the prosecution, including employing renowned forensic expert Henry Lee, the trial concluded with a not guilty verdict. The judge, acknowledging the conspiracy and obstruction charges, ultimately found insufficient evidence to convict on murder, leaving many questions unanswered.

Guest comments on the trial's thoroughness and the judge's ruling:

"The trial was very thorough... I find her ruling a little strange to me."

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Analysis of Evidence and Key Questions

Throughout the discussion, Nic and the Captain, along with their guest, explore the fragmented puzzle pieces that make the case so perplexing:

1. Missing Evidence:

   • The lack of a clear murder weapon and the discrepancy in blood evidence raised significant doubts.
   • Nic points out:

     "There’s a lack of evidence on the murder weapon. The stories are changing."

2. Behavior of the Accused:

   • The three roommates appeared unusually calm during interviews and interrogations.
   • Two of the accused changed their names and relocated out of state, while Victor maintained his identity and continued his professional career.

3. Role of Henry Lee:

   • The involvement of Henry Lee, known for high-profile cases, raised concerns about potential biases.
   • The Captain expresses skepticism:

     "I don't like seeing that guy show up to a trial because I know who he's there for."

4. Alleged Sleeping Pill:

   • Dylan Ward claimed to have taken a sleeping pill that night, a claim that was scrutinized due to the absence of evidence in his system.
   • Guest emphasizes the importance of verifying this claim:

     "If I were a detective, I would have tried to get him to pee in a cup for urinalysis..."

5. Scream Heard by Neighbor:

   • A neighbor heard a scream during the incident, but its origin remains unclear.
   • The Captain questions:

     "Did the scream come from Robert? Did it come from Victor?"

6. Involvement of Roommate Sarah Morgan:

   • Questions arose about whether Sarah Morgan was ever notified or involved in the events following the crime.
   • Nic highlights:

     "I want to know who made that scream. I want to know if the sleeping pill was a real thing."

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The Civil Suit: Seeking Justice

In the wake of the criminal trial's inconclusive verdict, Robert Wone's wife, Kathy Wan, pursued a wrongful death lawsuit against the three accused individuals. This civil case aimed to hold them accountable despite the lack of a murder conviction.

Guest explains the rationale behind the civil suit:

"These individuals chose to settle outside of court for an undisclosed amount of money."

The settlement, although not revealing the exact figures, was directed towards charity, aligning with Robert Wone's wishes and deflecting accusations of profiting from the litigation.

The Captain adds:

"People can't make the argument that she's just trying to sue them to get rich off of her dead husband."

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Post-Trial Developments and Behavior of the Accused

Following the trial and civil suit, the life trajectories of the accused men became a focal point for analysis:

• Name Changes and Relocations:
  • Joseph Price reportedly changed his name to Joseph Anderson.
  • Dylan Ward adopted the name Dylan Thomas.
  • Victor maintained his name and continued his employment with the Milk Processor Education Program.

Guest speculates on their motivations:

"If you want to keep this thing out of court... How much do we have to pay this person to go away?"

Despite the legal processes, the hosts express skepticism about the true accountability of the roommates, especially given their continued lifestyle and lack of transparency regarding the settlement.

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Host and Guest Opinions: Skepticism and Unanswered Questions

Throughout the episode, Nic and the Captain, alongside their guest, voice their frustrations and skepticism regarding the case's unresolved nature:

• Judicial Ruling:
  Both agree that the judge's decision was perplexing and left many feeling that justice was not fully served.

• Behavioral Red Flags:
  The calm demeanor of the accused, their appearance in bathrobes post-incident, and the inconsistent stories they provided raise suspicions.

• Unanswered Questions:

  • The legitimacy of Dylan Ward's sleeping pill claim.
  • The origin of the scream heard by the neighbor.
  • The timeline and necessity of involving roommate Sarah Morgan.

The Captain passionately asserts:

"This case is so complex, it's hard to put the pieces together... Robert didn't deserve this."

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Conclusion: A Call for Further Investigation

As the episode wraps up, Nic and the Captain reflect on the enduring mysteries of Robert Wone's case. They emphasize the importance of continuing to seek answers and encourage listeners to remain vigilant and informed.

Nick advises listeners:

"If you're really into this case, I would suggest... to read the verdict from the judge because I think that lays out a lot of the pieces of the case."

The hosts also recommend additional resources for those eager to delve deeper, including documentaries and related podcasts that explore the nuances of the case.

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Notable Quotes

• Nic [03:19]:
  "Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime."

• The Captain [08:27]:
  "If you have evidence that's making you fundamentally think that these guys are guilty of a crime and guilty of covering it up, doesn't that evidence... isn't that enough evidence to then convict them?"

• Guest [16:10]:
  "We know who did this. We know who's responsible for this unsolved murder. We know how they did it. But knowing who and proving who and how are two very different things."

• The Captain [22:52]:
  "Makes him a bag of shit because Robert didn't deserve this."

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Recommendations for True Crime Enthusiasts

Before concluding, Nic and the Captain share their recommended resources for listeners eager to explore more about the Robert Wone case and other true crime stories:

• Documentaries and Podcasts:

  • Missing Pieces Podcast: A deeper dive into the case with insights from law enforcement.
  • Who Killed Robert Wone: A two-part docu-series available on Peacock.

• Subscription Show:

  • Off the Record: An exclusive show for die-hard fans, available on Apple Subscription and Patreon.

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Final Thoughts

In this final installment of the Robert Wone series, True Crime Garage leaves listeners with a blend of frustration and hope. While the legal avenues may have reached their temporary conclusions, the quest for truth and closure remains ongoing. The hosts urge anyone with additional information to come forward, emphasizing the crucial role of collective effort in unraveling complex true crime cases.

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Stay Connected:
For more true crime discussions, insights, and updates, subscribe to True Crime Garage on your preferred podcast platform. Join Nic and the Captain as they continue to explore the darkest corners of true crime, one case at a time.

Don't Forget:

"Be good, be kind, and don't litter."

Transcript

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[Nick]

The people high five casino lets you play your favorite slot and live table games like Blackjack with the chance to redeem for real cash prizes. High Five Casino has a giant selection of over 1200 games, including hundreds of exclusive games only found on High Five Casino. It's always free to play and free coins are given out every four hours. Ready to have your own high five moment? Visit high five casino.com that's high the number five casino.com no purchase necessary. Void where prohibited by law. Must be 21 years or older. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always, as a man who enjoys Cyber Monday about as much as a kick in the face, here is the captain.

[The Captain]

It's okay if you break my nose.

[Guest 1]

It's good to be seen and good to see you.

[The Captain]

Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick]

Today we are still sipping on some delicious Christmas ale from the fine folks at the Great Lakes Brewing Company. The brilliant brewers at Great Lakes took.

[Guest 2]

Two kinds of hops, five malt varieties.

[Nick]

And brewed them with honey, ginger and cinnamon. This is a cold night fireside beer if there ever was one. Garage grade four and a half bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good garage friends for helping us out this week. First up, a cheers to Rhonda Webb and Raleigh, which is in the great state of North Carolina.

[The Captain]

And a big relation jib goes to Madeline from Turlock, California.

[Nick]

And last but certainly not least, we have a shout out to Michelle Allman from Weimore, Nebraska.

[Guest 2]

Why more?

[Nick]

Why not more Nebraska? Cheers to everyone that helped us with this week's beer fund. We are forever thankful.

[The Captain]

Yeah. BWR you in?

[Guest 1]

You need some true crime garage for Christmas? You need some swag for Christmas?

[The Captain]

Make sure you go to truecrimegarage.com click on the store page, pick yourself up something nice or something nice for somebody else and we can get that shipped out to you before Christmas.

[Guest 1]

And that's enough of the business.

[Nick]

All right, everybody gather round, grab a.

[Guest 2]

Chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. August 2, 2003 at the home on Swan street in Washington, D.C. that night before midnight. We have four men in one home, three who live there, one who's visiting. The visitor ends up dead. The three are essentially accused of murder after. After a very lengthy time period here. They're not charged with murder. We get to a trial. It's not a murder trial, but we get a conspiracy trial and obstruction of justice trial. All three are being attempted to being held accountable for whatever happened to Robert Juan that night. With the state saying, look, we have evidence that state that we believe proves that these three guys concealed evidence. They changed the crime scene. They waited to call the paramedics, they lied to law enforcement. And the three of them, in unison. Well, they did a really good job covering this up and making it very convoluted so that nobody really knows what happened.

[The Captain]

Yeah, this case is difficult because I even think if just one person is involved in a murder, I mean, look at the Delphi trial, or maybe not even the trial, but just the case itself. Yes, it takes a long time to arrest Richard Allen, but my gut tells me that eventually he would have confessed to somebody. And then the probability of somebody telling somebody information about a crime that they committed or a crime that they're trying to cover up, you know, doubles when you have two people. Well, then it triples when you have three individuals. That's where this case gets complex, too, because are all three people involved? Are all three people responsible, or is it just two people, or is it just one person? And I think it would be very frustrating for law enforcement because they thought every step of the way that we're going to get somebody to break, and they just weren't able to do that. And you hear the prosecutor talk about that. He tried every trick in the book and it just. These individuals just wouldn't break. I think the judge was very thorough in her assessment of what she thinks happened, but I find her ruling a little strange to me.

[Guest 2]

Well, and I think Thoreau, in the trial itself, which is being conducted in. Presented by the prosecution and of course, being defended by the defense teams, I thought the trial was very thorough in the sense that it was lengthy. In fact, it was longer than the Delphi murders trial, which was a double homicide case, here you have a lot of. A lot of speed bumps and a lot of hurdles to clear for the prosecution, which makes it a little bit easier for the defense, I think. I think that the defense won a big victory when it became. So they applied.

[Nick]

They have to.

[Guest 2]

I think they have to make some kind of motion for it to go to a judge instead of a jury. And I believe that the prosecutor signed off on that. He said, sure. And I think that was. Look, win, lose or draw, where some might think that was a mistake, maybe the prosecutor himself may think that that was a mistake in hindsight, but I think it was probably the right move to sign off on it. You want the defendants to have the fairest of trials. Right. That's what everybody wants, Guilty or not guilty. I want them to have a very. I. Every man to have their day in court. And I want every trial to be as fair as possible. And look, Captain, I'm with you. I did. I don't know that I would go as far to say that I found the verdict to be confusing. I thought it to be different. Right. Very different from what we're really used to, because in a. And to put it very short, we get a not guilty verdict from this. I find to be very intelligent judge.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Guest 2]

But she goes out of her way to display to everyone, here's my thoughts and feelings on the case as I have reviewed them. And it is my. My belief. She says over and over again, they are guilty of conspiracy. They are guilty of obstruction of justice. However, the way that the wall. The law defines it and the way that the trial played out, I cannot issue a guilty verdict, which makes no.

[The Captain]

Sense to me, because if you have evidence that's making you fundamentally think that these guys are guilty of a crime and guilty of covering it up, doesn't that evidence. That evidence that led you to that conclusion, isn't that enough evidence to then convict them?

[Guest 2]

But I don't think that she's. What I think she's saying is she can't. That evidence doesn't go to the level of proof of beyond a reasonable doubt.

[The Captain]

Well, I'm like, I keep harping on this idea of this is a puzzle piece and some of the puzzle pieces are missing. And I think I told you I wish there was a camera on me, which I never won. A camera on me. But when I was watching this documentary and they were talking about the trial and they're talking about how the prosecution calls the lady that did the autopsy, and then she is saying, hey, look, I believe that there's missing blood. The blood spots on the bed, they don't match with how much blood I think Robert would have lost. And then the defense team calls one of my maybe least favorite people in the true crime space.

[Guest 2]

Yeah.

[The Captain]

Is Henry Lee.

[Guest 2]

Yeah. I don't. I don't like seeing that guy show up to a trial because. Because I know who he's there for before. Even as soon as he walks in the door, I know who he's there for.

[The Captain]

Yeah. And the thing is, is whether it's the OJ Trial or whether it's this trial, this end or what this Scott Peterson case, it's like this individual is almost willing and has a record of almost.

[Guest 2]

Michael Peterson. Did he do both Scott and Michael? Because.

[The Captain]

No, no, no, you're right, it's Michael.

[Guest 2]

Yeah. Because he believed the Al theory or something like that.

[The Captain]

But he will believe. Or maybe doesn't. Maybe doesn't believe, but he will say he believes or say whatever the defense team wants wants him to say. I mean, I don't know if there's been a case that he's been called upon that he looks at the evidence and goes, hey, I'm probably not the guy to help you out.

[Guest 2]

The only time I think he's done that is when he's like busy or going to be on vacation somewhere. He's like, yeah, I'd like to help you out, but I just can't make it.

[The Captain]

Yeah, or you just don't have enough money.

[Guest 2]

That's right. That's right. Maybe. Maybe you can't foot the bill.

[The Captain]

And again, we have three individuals that have money to call, quote, unquote, expert witnesses. But I wish there was a camera on me because I was like, not this.

[Guest 2]

Oh, when you're watching the documentary, I.

[The Captain]

Mean, his name, Henry Lee, not Henry Lee.

[Guest 2]

Well, that's my, my reaction was what? What you just heard me say here was as soon as his name was brought up, I knew who he was there to represent.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Guest 2]

I've never seen him represent the prosecution of someone. It's only to defend someone. And look, has he gotten it right some of the time? Maybe. Has he gotten it right all the time? I don't believe so.

[The Captain]

I can't get behind somebody that defended.

[Guest 2]

OJ but, but one thing, I will say this. Okay. The way that we describe that injury about it hitting the heart, if that was the first stab wound that in the heart shutting down and being unable to pump the blood, like almost instantaneously, that does align a little bit with what Henry Lee saying. Right. Where he's. He's saying that he thinks that he. There was internal bleeding and that the blood that you're not finding at the crime scene is all within side of your victim.

[The Captain]

Yeah. And I think that's a possibility, but I also think. Think it's more likely that Robert's heart wasn't pumping correctly.

[Guest 2]

Yes, or at all.

[The Captain]

And that's why we see a lack of blood outside of the body.

[Guest 2]

Well, again, none of that. Even if he's, you know, even if it sounds great, it still doesn't explain the up and down motion of stabbing someone in the knife going in and out and in and out. There's blood involved in that. There should be blood on the walls, There should be blood on the carpet.

[The Captain]

Yeah, but like you said, it's somebody holding a towel in such a manner. And then where's that towel? Because that should have some more blood on it. Yeah, but.

[Guest 2]

Or the heart's not beating so that we're not having that presence of blood too. I think the towel was involved, but go ahead.

[The Captain]

But I. Look, law enforcement took this case seriously. They took Robert losing his life serious. They tried to bring charges to a situation that just what the three individuals are telling us doesn't make a lot of sense. We can't put that puzzle piece together, but we can kind of put this other scenario together. So good for them, hey, we don't have enough evidence where we can charge them with murder. And the problem with charging them with murder is if you don't get it, if you don't get a guilty verdict, it's done. But in this case, okay, we didn't get the guilty verdict, but these guys were on trial for everybody to see. So this one is just going to affect their life, period. So maybe that's some justice on some level. But again, if we get more evidence, if we can put together a stronger case, we can still try these three individuals for murder one day. So, you know, you gotta applaud their effort. And then it doesn't just stop there. Because I think all one of the things that we see through the documentary is that Robert's wife at first believes the story that these three individuals are telling her.

[Guest 2]

She was friends with them. Why wouldn't she believe. Yeah, she believed that her husband was friends with them.

[The Captain]

And then I think as everything unfolds, she started going, this doesn't make any sense at all. And something that they talked about in the. In the documentary that we haven't really touched on is at Robert's funeral, his friend that we think possibly murdered and covered up the murder was a pallbearer, Joe Price. I thought this was very strange. They have a line of people to show their condolences to the family and a line of people to show their condolences to Joe. That's just odd. And then some of the friends of Joe and Robert that made comments to Joe.

[Guest 2]

Go ahead.

[The Captain]

He, you know, they ask him some questions or whatever and he doesn't even respond. Again, you could say, well, this guy was murdered inside his house and he feels awful. And this was his friend too, and he was struggling with all these things. But I think all this combination is what led her to go. I can't stop here. We might not have enough. We couldn't, we can't convict them on the COVID up. We don't have enough evidence to bring charges, murder charges. So I'm going to bring a civil suit against them.

[Guest 2]

Yes. And I do want a chance to defend the judges ruling here. And I get that some people are going to say that they don't understand it. However, I want to, I want to compare it to the following. We have heard over 100 times from 100 different detectives covering cases here in the garage. We know who did this. We know who's responsible for this unsolved murder. We know how they did it. But knowing who and proving who and how are two very different things. And I think that that is very much the simplest form of what the judge had to deal with when coming up with a verdict here. She was the only one tasked with coming up with a verdict. And I think in ways she's trying.

[Nick]

To tell us, look, I'm a bit.

[Guest 2]

Handcuffed by the law here and my only job as a judge is to uphold the law. Yeah, she was in a situation that I would never want to find myself in. And guess what? I won't because I don't have the schooling. I just, I don't have the qualifications.

[The Captain]

You never know, they might make you like, you know, the next Judge Judy.

[Guest 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the. But I think she's, she's clearly smarter than I am too. So it's never going to happen.

[The Captain]

All right, she makes a lot of money.

[Guest 2]

Maybe that's an episode. We'll do a true crime garage people's court. Okay, so we're talking about the lawsuit now I want to say this. I can't remember if it's 20 million per defendant or 20 million in total.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Guest 2]

But.

[The Captain]

So the wife brings the civil, civil suit against the three individuals.

[Guest 2]

Wrongful death lawsuit against the three individuals. And look, this is why I am proud. Or I shouldn't say proud is not the right word.

[The Captain]

This is why I am why you're not a judge.

[Guest 2]

This is why I'm happy that the judge took the time to explain herself in her thoughts on the case before delivering the verdict. That was going to be not guilty is. I think that played a part in how this civil suit played out, because I think this set the table in a way, because, remember, we saw with the O.J. simpson case, they couldn't get a guilty verdict against O.J. at that trial, but they certainly did it. The wrongful death lawsuit.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Guest 2]

And so there's a different preponderance of evidence and there's a different level of guilt that needs to be proven and so on and so forth. There's a very big difference between the two cases. These individuals chose to settle outside of court for an undisclosed amount of money.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Guest 2]

And God bless Kathy Wan. She stated from Jump street, yes, this is a lawsuit. Yes. This is for millions of dollars. This money, however, whether it's one penny or $20 million, is going to go to a charity because that's what Robert would have wanted.

[The Captain]

Yeah. And also then people can't make the argument that she's just trying to sue them to get rich off of her dead husband, because that's not the case.

[Guest 2]

She's just trying to hold them responsible in any form and fashion. And.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Guest 2]

And after the lawsuit, and maybe it was shortly before, I don't know the exact order here, but we do know that the. These three individuals, there's proof, there's record that at least two of them moved out of the area. We already talked about Dylan being down in Florida.

[The Captain]

Yeah. I believe all three of them moved to Florida.

[Guest 2]

Yeah, I. It gets a little dicey. And I know that this is a large company, so Victor worked for the Milk Processor education program. He's fighting for the rights of milk, Got milk everywhere. I believe he continued to work for them. And he was the only of the three that did not change his name. Now, he very well could have moved out of state and continued to work for this, this company elsewhere, but the information I have in front of me is that two of these individuals changed their names and that Victor was the one that didn't change his name and remained working for the same organization that he had worked for for over 10 years before the murder of Robert Wong. Yeah.

[The Captain]

The prosecutor in this case said something pretty interesting about Victor. He said, I believe he was it. I believe that Victor is a good person. And maybe Victor doesn't know all the details. Again, they also thought maybe they could break him. He even said, I enjoyed my conversations with Victor. And he said that he, he believed that Victor was like a abused spouse. I mean, think about this dynamic. Hey, we're married and I'm into This other thing that you're not into sexually. So instead of us building a stronger intimacy, I'm going to bring another individual into the situation. Most spouses are not going to go for that. Gay, straight, whatever. And so I think there are. I think there is some evidence that he was a abused spouse. Really?

[Guest 2]

Maybe not actually abused or who knows.

[The Captain]

But, well, mentally abused or verbally abused or, or, I mean, even just again, it's, it's a.

[Guest 2]

Yes, it's. It. I see what you're saying wasn't his.

[The Captain]

Idea to bring Dylan into the relationship.

[Guest 2]

Correct. And that's where, that's where I go. Look, I simply, I. To put it plain and simple, I think they are guilty of exactly what they were charged with and tried for. I agree with the judge. I. On so many levels and so many details of the charges that they faced in the details of the crime itself. The hang up I have is, out of the three of these individuals, I believe that he may not have had a hand in the actual killing or whatever led to the death, but I think he helped cover it up. And a part of me wonders if he was just so blinded by love or so in love with Joseph that he allowed this third person into their home and into their marriage. And that he allowed. Okay, whatever happened, I understand. I can sympathize in some way that you didn't intend for this to happen. I believe you're a good person. So. And I don't want to lose you no matter what. So I will help you. I will help you. You're the only person I would help in this situation. Look, that in the long run, that probably doesn't make him any better than the other two, but it still, still.

[The Captain]

Makes him a bag of shit because Robert didn't deserve this.

[Guest 2]

So the reports are that Joseph Price changed his name to Joseph Anderson and that Dylan Ward changed his name to Dylan Thomas. I'm sorry. And again, they moved out of state. I don't feel. Look, they were found innocent. So I don't want to go out of my way that you can. You can dig around online if you want to figure out what city they may live in. It doesn't appear that they all live in the same city here. I do want to point out a few things here and I think that I don't need to go into some long speech about what I think happened or what I believe the evidence is telling me.

[The Captain]

Hold on. Let's finish the whole civil suit thoughts and then we'll move on to our thoughts after that. Because like you said, they settled out of court. We have no clue for how much money. But I think a lot of people view that as a sign of guilt.

[Guest 2]

Even an admission of guilt.

[The Captain]

Yeah, omission of guilt. I'd really like to know how much money that they had to pay. And I'd really like to know, is it an OJ Situation where he was, there was a judgment for him to pay, but he never really did. I'd like to know if the, if the judgment was 10 million, have they paid a penny towards that?

[Guest 2]

Well, they can garnish their wages. Right. I, we, and we know that Victor continued to work for the same outfit that he had worked for for many. In fact, he worked there for, it may be another 15, 17 years after the murder. So you don't have to willy nilly or willingly turn over the money. They can just garnish your wages. And given the information that I've seen, it would appear that the three of them continue to live a higher class of lifestyle. So they're working somewhere, they have some means, they have some kind of either income or money that they inherited to live the way that they're living. So now, and here's the thing, Kathy Wan doesn't strike me as someone who's going to sue for $20 million and then say, oh, I guess we don't have a case here, sure, I'll settle for five grand. She doesn't strike me as that kind of person.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Guest 2]

I think this was, this ended up being a big ticket, a big price tag at the end of the day to keep this thing out of a court. And guess what? The, with that verdict from the judge and the way that that was delivered and the information that she stated in that verdict, you're any defense attorney that's, that's worth their weight is going to advise you as the client and say, look, we don't want this thing to go to court because guess what? You might be opening yourself up to further actual investigation of the murder itself. I don't know. I, I'm your attorney, your counsel. I believe you to be innocent, but we don't know what they could uncover. Do you really want to go through another trial? Do you really want them digging and snooping into your life again? Do you really want the chance risk that they stumble upon something that, that lends you in court for a murder trial?

[The Captain]

Right.

[Guest 2]

The answer is going to be no, no, no. How much do we have to pay this person to go away?

[The Captain]

And again, this case is so complex, it's hard to put the pieces together. But one of the defense attorneys and the prosecutor, I believe they're both retired, but I believe they both have stated if this ever goes to a murder trial, we're both willing to come out of retirement for no money. This is how personal it became to them to try to prove their point.

[Guest 2]

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[Nick]

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[Guest 2]

Cement Mobile for details Is your sock.

[Guest 1]

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[The Captain]

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[Guest 1]

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[The Captain]

All right, cheers mates. Thanks for joining us on this journey. Did you find and I know we actually do a better job of this now than when we started the podcast, but man, it's like you watch this documentary and you so badly want to talk to somebody about it just to try to unravel it and try to put the pieces together and how does it make any sense whatsoever?

[Guest 2]

Yeah. And I'll tell you what, the documentary is great. It's very good. Again, you can find that on Peacock. And the other thing that's great too is the hashtag not a sponsor Missing Pieces podcast. I think they did five episodes on it. They're shorter episodes than what your long winded friends here in the garage deliver. But one thing that was fantastic about that, the, the gentleman from the news that was featured in the documentary, he is the presenter on the podcast. One thing that's missing from the documentary is they talk to the air quotes lead detective on the case and he does a great job laying out his suspicions and evidence that they found or didn't find. And he wasn't the only detective to work the case. He wasn't the only detective that was there that night. He wasn't the only one that interviewed these, these people. And we know that from the videotaped interrogation or questioning sessions that took place in the early hours of August 3rd. So one of the other detectives is featured in that podcast and he delivers some of his thoughts and some of his speculation about the case as well that I found to be rather intriguing. Yeah, I'm left here also.

[The Captain]

Look, if you're really into this case, I would suggest, I don't know if you can, I'll give it a thumbs up to read. I think it's 46 pages. But to read the verdict from the judge because I think that lays out a lot of the pieces of the case and also how she because it's a roller coaster ride. You go, okay, well she's pointing that this piece of evidence makes me lean towards that they're guilty and this piece of evidence leans towards that they're not. So I think it is worth the read. If you're that fascinated with this case, which I think this case is super fascinating.

[Guest 2]

The three question marks that I have left for me that I think would point toward guilt or Innocence for the men that eventually faced a trial that wasn't a murder trial. And the statements that Dylan Ward delivers, he states that he, he took a sleeping pill. If I were a detective on the case, probably even before ushering him out to take the lie detector, take the polygraph exam, I would have tried to get him to pee in a cup for urinalysis to determine if in fact he did take a sleeping pill. Because if you tell me time and again that you took a sleeping pill, that that tells me your intent was to go to bed that night. If I can prove by your urine that you did not take said sleeping pill, then your whole story falls apart right away. Your whole narrative for that night falls completely apart. It crumbles to the ground. The scream. I Wish we had 100% confirmation understanding of the scream. Did it come from Robert? Did it come from Victor, as the some of the detectives believe and many people that have followed the case. We know that the neighbor heard the scream. We know that Victor reports the scream on the 911 call. He says we heard a scream, meaning he did not scream. So where did that scream come from? If we could prove that he did not scream again, his story then falls apart. The other big question mark that I'm left with here, Captain, is the fourth roommate, Sarah Morgan.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Guest 2]

Was she due to return that to home that night? And regardless if she said she wasn't coming home that night, which I believe that's the case, she's an adult, she pays rent, she has a key, she can come and go as she pleases. The. On the timelines that I found, every one of them state that at approximately 5:30am after questioning is over, Joseph Price calls Sarah Morgan. She comes and picks up Joseph Price and Victor from the police headquarters and they, they go off together. That's the only. And the gentleman over at who killed Robert Juan.com might be able to clarify this for us. Again, this is a website that has run for since 2003. So I believe there's a lot of stuff that has been removed by them over the years. And maybe they had at one time this information because this seems like a great kind of central point for a lot of the best information. Did they ever call her before that? And the reason why I circle and circle and circle that is because, of course, these are three smart dudes, right? They know police are on the scene. They know that police are probably going to be there for a long time, what have you. But if I 100% believe and know in my heart and in my mind, in my soul, that somebody came into my home and killed my dear friend in the middle of the night. You better believe me that I'm going to be screaming at those detectives. You need to let me call our other roommate. I don't want her to return to the home to find blood on the bed. I don't want her to return to the home and maybe the intruder comes back. That is one key thing that I would really like to know. I want to know who made that scream. I want to know if the sleeping pill was a real thing. I'm sure that he probably took a sleeping pill some nights or all nights or most nights. But did he take one that night as he told us he did? And I want to know when did they first notify the roommate, who had every right to know that somebody came into the home and murdered someone in the home in the middle of the night that night, Right, for her own safety and protection?

[The Captain]

Or did he even ask law enforcement about this? And because law enforcement would say, we're going to be there, so if she.

[Guest 2]

Returns, or we're going to be, that wouldn't be good enough for me. I would say, I want you to notify her and let me hear it, or I want you to let me notify her. I'm not going to put the life or the safety of my dear friend in the hands of somebody I just met minutes or hours ago by just saying, oh, well, we're going to be there. We got to process the scene. We're looking for evidence against you guys. So we're going to be there a long time. No, that wouldn't be good enough. And I would I. Look, they're not under arrest, as you said, that they asked to leave, that they did take breaks. Okay, well, if they did take breaks, did they attempt at any time to inform their roommate Joseph, Victor, Dylan, or all three attempt to notify Sarah Morgan? Look, you might be in danger. Or if there ever was a night not to come home, tonight's not. Is the night because none of us are there.

[The Captain]

Right?

[Guest 2]

Somebody broke into the home and killed Robert. Can you believe. This is horrible. What? You know, that's. That would be a normal reaction. I believe now one could make a strong argument that they're so caught up and swept up in the moment that maybe they didn't consider that. I have a hard time sell that to somebody else. Because, look, I think that when you're victimized in this way, as they claim that they were. They lost a dear, dear friend. They were at his wedding. They knew his wife, they knew his family. They.

[The Captain]

They had a birthday party.

[Guest 2]

They hosted his 30th birthday party, which is a monumental moment in somebody's life, in a memory that's created. If you. If your dear friend is murdered inside your home, you have a responsibility to the other person that lives in that home to notify them. And if you didn't bother to call her until 5:30am you're guilty.

[The Captain]

Well, and I hate to say this because you know, you know my. Because my deep hatred of you as an individual. I'm just joking. But you always really impress me by coming up with an angle that I never thought of. I never thought of. Yeah, of course you would want to contact your again. I think the term roommate is loose. You know, when. If it's a separate apartment or whatever. But still, if she's your tenant, she.

[Guest 2]

Lives in the basement of the home that you own.

[The Captain]

Yeah. You'd still want to make contact with her. So I'm always. I hate to pat you on the back, man, but you.

[Guest 2]

And again with your analysis, if he didn't take that sleeping pill, a lot of those things are relatively easily traced.

[The Captain]

Yes? Yeah.

[Guest 2]

And because his story is. Look, we showed him where the bed is, we showed him where the shower is. And then I went into my room, read for five minutes, took a sleeping pill, fell asleep. I never heard any screams or anything. I didn't hear the door chime, nothing. And then you do your analysis and you go, wait a second. The doctors, we checked it with two different doctors and both of them say you. They found no trace of this sleeping pill in your. In your system that night.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Guest 2]

If you're lying about that. What. What were you up doing instead of sleeping all that time that you said you were sleeping? Were you busy up murdering someone and covering it up?

[The Captain]

Right. Yeah. This case is so confusing and like, you gotta put that puzzle piece together. And I just think there's so many questions. And again, I think we do have a lot of proof that Robert's not involved in his own murder, if that makes any sense. But then there's so many questions. Why is it that when they show up, you guys all look showered? Why are you guys all on bathrobes? Why are we finding lack of evidence on the murder weapon? Why are the stories changing? But also I think you bring up another good point because you'd think that these individuals, somebody came into your house and murdered your friend. Even if it wasn't your friend, even if it was just some colleague that Was spending the night they came into your house? I think when you watch, and I think cases where we have more information to digest, that's why they become more fascinating. Because why is Joe so calm during the interviews? It doesn't make much sense. Again, did he reach out to the tenant, the other roommate? If he didn't, doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense. When the EMT makes comments to Dylan that he doesn't even respond. He just goes back into his room. And then again, so many other questions, you know, was the, was the gate open? Was the gate unlocked? Was, was the back door unlocked? Was, was Dylan's bedroom locked? And then I think the question, then the other questions that I think people have a hard time wrapping their head around. And so you start going, well, I guess it makes sense for an intruder, but what was the purpose of the intruder? Was the only thing that makes sense to me is maybe it was a hate crime because of the area because the individuals that lived at 1509. But also, if it wasn't an intruder, what was, what was the motive? Like, was this some weird fantasy that, oh, well, your friend's going to come over and. Because I was actually reading about this and I wanted to be careful on my Google searches because one day somebody's going to go through my Google searches and if they don't know I do a true crime podcast, they're going to think I'm the weirdest guy in the world. But there are these fantasies because you have a dominant individual and you have a submissive individual. And there are these fantasies of. It's not just me tying you up and doing things to you and making you submit. It could be I'm going to make you do something that you don't want to do and then therefore that's me dominating you and is that what happened? And then I think you can make arguments again if he was stabbed in the bed or if he was stabbed somewhere else. I think there's evidence that kind of backs up both things. But I think if somebody said, hey, you gotta, you know, I'm going to use one of your phrases. If I had to put a Benjamin on this, the thing that makes the most sense. And also because of the trial, because of the civil trial, because of their actions, changing the names and things of that nature. I think a lot of that leans towards this idea that they were responsible for the murders, they were responsible for the COVID up. But then again, more questions. Are all three people involved? There are two people involved. If there's only one person involved. Why the why are the others covering up? Why are they going along with the COVID up? Is it because of love or is because they just don't know? So as I lean towards that, I think, like you were saying, even though I I don't like the ruling of the judge, I get, I get what she's saying. All this stuff leans this one way. But I can't definitively prove it and I can't definitively lay out a timeline on how it happened and why it happened. Motive makes almost no sense to me in this case. I can't figure out what the motive is. Doesn't make any sense. And I also think you're right about something that has bothered me since I started looking at this case is when Robert's wife says, well, hey, it's good that I'm going to stay over at Joe's. One, they're my buddies but two, they live close. And then three, me and Joe have some business to discuss. That's a big question mark for me and I hope that one day we get answers. I hope one day when we're trying to put this puzzle piece together that we get the pieces that are missing and maybe the pieces that are lying to us stop lying to us. And I think there's a lot of people out there that think, well if one, two or three are involved, that one day they're going to say something to somebody.

[Nick]

If you have any information about this case, you can contact the Washington D.C. metropolitan Police Department by calling the tip line at 202-727-9099 and you can remain anonymous.

[The Captain]

Want to thank everybody for joining us here in the Garage colonel Do we have any recommended reading for the Beautiful listeners?

[Nick]

We are filled with great recommendations for the Beautiful Listeners. Look, we are not planning for any big schedule shake up as we get close to the holidays, so still plenty of more good garage listening is on tap as we round out the year.

[Guest 2]

But if you do need more true.

[Nick]

Crime, we recommended the Burden Empire on Blood podcast last week for your ear balls. We have been telling you throughout this four part Garage series to check out the who Killed Robert Juan two part docu series on Peacock for your eyeballs. And don't forget there is our other show, our subscription show for the die hard garage community. That show is called off the Record and it is available on Apple Subscription and on Patreon.

[The Captain]

Absolutely love recording off the record and.

[Guest 1]

We love when people send us emails suggesting topics to discuss. Whether they're silly topics or true crime topics to discuss a deep dive, if.

[The Captain]

You will, on off the Record. So join us back here in the garage next week, or join us on off the Record.

[Nick]

And until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.

[G]

Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.