The Collector & the Fugitive /// Part 1 /// 754

Summary

True Crime Garage: The Collector & the Fugitive /// Part 1 /// Episode 754 (April 30, 2024)

Main Theme & Purpose

In this gripping episode, hosts Nic and the Captain kick off a two-part deep dive into the chilling partnership and crimes of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, two of California’s most notorious serial killers. The episode traces their backgrounds, the friendship that became a deadly alliance, and their descent into horrifying acts—including theft, extortion, and abduction—against the backdrop of rural California in the early 1980s. Drawing on detailed research and interviews, Nic and the Captain unpack the psychology, methods, and early warning signs pointing toward one of the most disturbing true crime stories in U.S. history.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: The “Death Camp” Bunker (04:22–06:50)

• Discovery in 1985: Law enforcement finds a secret bunker on the Willsleyville, California “death camp” property, revealing chilling signs of captivity and evidence connecting to Leonard Lake and Charles Ng.
• Power and Control: Read-aloud of a “rule list” and quote on the wall ("If you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back, hunt it down and kill it.”), immediately establishing the case’s dark psychological atmosphere.

"Posted on the wall was a list of typewritten rules that read, ‘I must always be ready to service my master... I must never look my master in the eye... I must be obedient completely and in all things...’"
— Guest/Expert, [04:42]

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The Fugitive Begins: FBI Raids and Early Crimes (06:50–12:27)

• Philo, California, 1982: The story opens with a SWAT-style raid for 21-year-old Charles Ng, a Marine wanted for stealing automatic weapons from an armory in Hawaii.
• Leonard Lake’s Role: Lake is arrested as an accomplice but claims ignorance about Ng being a fugitive; later evidence contradicts his claims.
• Turning Point: After making bail, Lake becomes a fugitive himself, setting the stage for their later crimes.

“This will be a major triggering moment in this week’s story. This will have a domino effect for not all, but many of the crimes that we will be discussing here in the garage.”
— Nick, [10:29]

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The Partnership: Lake & Ng’s Meeting and Dynamics (12:27–16:45)

• Backgrounds: Ng, a Hong Kong native with militaristic and criminal fantasies; Lake, 18 years older, Vietnam veteran with a history of manipulative relationships and a fascination with control.
• Their “Arrangement”: Lake and his wife Clairlin separate on paper but remain involved romantically and sexually, often prompted by Lake’s desire not to drag her into his criminal lifestyle.

“It was basically, let’s get a divorce, but we’re going to still be in a relationship together. So we’re just separated on paper.”
— Colonel, [14:44]

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Lake’s Psychology & Obsessions (18:21–24:31)

• Criminal Versatility: Lake engages in con artistry, extortion, and theft, pioneering "sex cons" and early forms of sextortion using illicit pornography.
• Obsession with Slavery & The Collector: Inspired by the novel 'The Collector,' Lake becomes fixated on creating “slaves” and controlling women, fueling their later atrocities.

"He was obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves, and he was obsessed with making pornography."
— Nick, [19:08]

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How Lake and Ng Connect (24:31–26:39)

• Connection Path: Ng meets Lake through a military contact after fleeing Hawaii, likely arranged via classified ads in “Soldier of Fortune” or similar magazines.
• Power Dynamic: Ng effectively becomes Lake’s subordinate, working for room and board during his fugitive period.

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Familial Tragedy: The Disappearance of Donald Lake (26:39–30:15)

• Lake’s Brother: Donald, disabled from a childhood accident, vanishes after Leonard offers a “roadtrip.” Soon after, a suspicious letter claims he’s left for Nevada.
• Pattern of Deceit: The disappearance, coupled with disability checks redirected to Nevada, represents Lake’s willingness to exploit and possibly murder even family members for self-preservation and financial gain.

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“Operation Fish” – The Fate of Charles Gunner (34:00–36:25)

• Charles Gunner: Lake’s supposed best friend, Navy vet, vanishes after a guys’ road trip; Lake returns alone, driving Gunner’s van and adopting his identity.
• Assumption of Identities: Lake habitually assumes the identities of his victims to facilitate his criminal lifestyle and evade law enforcement.

“Most people would believe that Charles Gunner was Leonard Lake’s best friend. I would go as far as to wager...that Gunner believed himself to be Leonard Lake’s best friend.”
— Nick, [34:08]

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“Operation Miranda” and the Wilsleyville Bunker (36:25–41:14)

• Post-Prison: Ng rejoins Lake, who now lives alone under Gunner's name, having built a “bunker” for survivalism but with a more disturbing immediate purpose: “Operation Miranda,” inspired by The Collector.
• Rampant Theft and Deception: Together, the pair routinely rob and steal from neighbors in the remote California foothills.
• Predatory Job Offers: Lake and Ng lure victims under the pretense of offering work—sometimes claiming to need help with a marijuana farm—before robbing and murder.

“Unfortunately, this remote area will afford these two the privacy they needed and desired. These two guys, they spent the next year stealing from their neighbors.”
— Nick, [37:53]

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The Dubs Family Disappearance (42:18–51:21)

• The Incident: Harvey Dubs, looking to sell or rent video equipment, is visited at home in 1984 by Lake and Ng. Harvey, his wife Deborah, and their 1-year-old Sean are never seen again.
• Clues & Witnesses: Neighbors observe an “Asian man” (Ng) leaving their apartment with equipment, and a phone call is made to Harvey’s employer offering a phony excuse for his absence.
• Police Theory: Lake and Ng use the baby to control the parents, moving the family out under duress. No evidence of violence on site; only a phone cord tied to a door suggests restraint.

“They think that possibly...like you had said at some point someone's tied up with that telephone cord in the apartment. They think that maybe the small child was moved outside to a vehicle. And then...the remaining abductor, who's still in the apartment with the parents, was able to control them in that manner and to get them to move quietly out to the car.”
— Nick, [47:12]

“Yeah, well, you have two individuals, both military background, both weapon experts, both criminal experts, because they don't do just one crime. They do any crime that gets them from point A to point B.”
— Colonel, [50:20]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Found Rules List (Dark Psychology):
  “I must never look my master in the eye... I must always keep lips sealed... I must obey and without question or comment...”
  — Guest/Expert, [04:22]

• Lake’s View of His Brother:
  “His brother was a leech and did not deserve to live.”
  — Nick, [26:40]

• Operation Miranda Defined:
  “But according to Lake...this bunker had another use and a more immediate purpose. And that purpose, Leonard Lake told Charles was something that Lake called Operation Miranda.”
  — Nick, [38:38]

• On the Dubs Family:
  “The only leads that they really have...are the neighbors who witnessed an Asian man going in and out of the apartment...and [possibly] a balding Caucasian male with a dark black beard.”
  — Nick, [46:51]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–04:21: Advertisements and episode opening
• 04:22–06:50: Discovery of the bunker, the “rules,” and psychological motivation
• 06:50–12:27: Introduction to Philo, the FBI raid, Lake and Ng's arrests
• 12:27–16:45: Dynamics of Lake and his wife, beginnings of Lake-Ng partnership
• 18:21–24:31: Lake’s criminal history, psychological obsessions, influence of 'The Collector'
• 26:39–30:15: The disappearance (and possible murder) of Lake’s disabled brother, Donald
• 34:00–36:25: "Operation Fish" and disappearance of Charles Gunner
• 36:25–41:14: Ng rejoins Lake; construction of the survivalist/“slave” bunker; theft patterns
• 42:18–51:21: The Dubs family vanishing; police investigation and prevailing theories

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Tone & Atmosphere

Nic and the Captain mix methodical storytelling, dark humor, and respect for victims with their signature banter. The tone is investigative and critical, with moments of incredulity and disbelief at just how calculated and cold Lake and Ng’s actions were. The hosts frequently pause to reflect on law enforcement’s missteps and the nuances of criminal psychology, always balancing information density with listener engagement.

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Summary

Part 1 of “The Collector & the Fugitive” delivers an engrossing, comprehensive account of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng up to the Dubs family disappearance. Through carefully reconstructed timelines, character analyses, and insights into the killers’ psychologies and modus operandi, Nic and the Captain illuminate the escalation from military crime to serial murder. The episode closes as the investigation into the vanished Dubs family hits a wall—perfectly setting up Part 2's deeper plunge into their joint killing spree.

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For listeners seeking a full breakdown of the Lake & Ng case, this episode is essential—masterfully blending facts, theories, and context to unveil the shocking origins of these “real monsters.”

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Be sure to listen to Part 2 for the chilling conclusion...

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Notable Quotes & Details by Timestamp

• "Posted on the wall was a list of typewritten rules..." — [04:22]
• "The FBI SWAT team captured Charles Ng that day..." — [07:46]
• "It was basically, let’s get a divorce, but..." — [14:44]
• "He was obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves..." — [19:08]
• "They spent the next year stealing from their neighbors..." — [37:53]
• "Lake tells everyone...his good buddy fell in love and ran off with some woman..." — [35:00]
• "So this family of three vanished, including the one year old Sean Dubs..." — [44:13]
• "Yeah, well, you have two individuals, both military background, both weapon experts, both criminal experts..." — [50:20]

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Nick (Host)]

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me, as always, is a man with a very important reminder that it's gonna be me. Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain.

[Captain]

Some Somebody's got some bad hooch. It's good to be seen and good to see you.

[Colonel]

Thanks for listening.

[Captain]

Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick (Host)]

Today we are very happy to be featuring Summerfest Refreshing summer lager by the good folks over at Sierra Nevada. This is a fine balance of malt and floral hops with hints of biscuity bread and and lemon zest. It's an easygoing ABV of 5%. But it's a seasonal offering and right now Summerfest is available to kickstart your warm weather vibes. Garage grade 4 out of 5 bottle caps. And let's give some thanks and praise to our friends for helping us out this week. First up, a big shout out to Desiree from Minneapolis, Minnesota.

[Captain]

And a big we like your jib to Joey D from Norman, Oklahoma.

[Nick (Host)]

Next up, a big cheers to Nell from Brumal, Pennsylvania. And last but certainly not least, we have a big Ron Swanson, please and thank you. That goes out to our new friend, new friend of the show, Matt Willer in Parker, Colorado. These fine folks put a few cold ones in the garage fridge for us this week and for that, we are most grateful.

[Captain]

Yeah, bwr, you in?

[Colonel]

Beer run for everything. True Crime garage.

[Captain]

Check out truecrimegarage.com and while you're there, sign up on the mailing list.

[Colonel]

And Colonel, that's enough of the be

[Nick (Host)]

and don't forget, CrimeCon 2024 is coming up in Nashville, Tennessee at the end of May. Last weekend of May. If you are looking to get last minute tickets, use our promo code TCG and save 10%. All right everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

[Guest/Expert]

In June of 1985, detectives and sheriff's deputies searched a large ranch property in Willsleyville, California. This property would be referred to as the death camp by both police and the local media. They were looking for victims here, both alive and evidence of homicide victims. In a shelter located behind the residence, authorities discovered a secret room in the back of the bunker. Posted on the wall was a list of typewritten rules that read, I must always be ready to service my master. I must be clean, brushed and made up with my cell neat. I must never speak unless spoken to, unless in bed. I must never look my master in the eye, but must keep my eyes downcast. I must never show my disrespect, either verbally or silent. I must never cross my arms or legs in front of my body or clench my fist. And unless eating, must always keep lips sealed. I must be obedient completely and in all things. I must obey and without question or comment. I must always be quiet when locked in my cell. I must remember and obey any additional rules told to me. I must understand that disobedience, any pain, trouble or annoyance caused by me to my master will be grounds for punishment. Outside of the shelter, detectives found a sign that read if you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back, hunt it down and kill it. This is true Crime Garage.

[Nick (Host)]

This week we are going to start off this story by going to a tiny little town called Philo, California. Philo is tiny in both total area and people. Philo is just 2 square miles and as of 2020 the population is just 319 people where we pick up this week's true crime story. It's 1982 and I would guess that the population would have been about the same back then. On Thursday, April 29, 1982, the Federal Bureau of Investigation came to Philo and it's roughly 300 residents looking for one guy in particular and that man was 21 year old Charles Chaitat Ng. But this was not just for a friendly check in. You know the old hey, how are you doing house tricks. No, the FBI was there in Philo, SWAT team raid style. This is a guns drawn kick in your door, check in. They were there to serve a federal Fugitive warrant. We got one dozen FBI agents dressed in camouflage uniforms and four Mendocino County Sheriff's deputies surrounding a house at Indian Creek Ranch looking for Charles Ng. He's a federal fugitive from Hawaii. Ng was wanted in connection with the theft of a cache of automatic weapons that he stole from the federal government. The FBI SWAT team captured Charles Ng that day as he attempted to flee out the rear door. No shots were fired. No one was hurt. There were guns found at this location. Eng was taken to Mendocido County Jail and then transported to federal facilities in San Francisco. A second resident was located in the process. This was Leonard lake. He's age 36 at this time, so he's also arrested. Sheriff's officials said Lake was booked on charges of possession of a machine gun as well as several weapons with the serial numbers having been removed.

[Colonel]

So they come in, guns ablazing. What else is he wanted for?

[Nick (Host)]

Well, the details of his fugitive warrant. He was the mastermind, if we want to call it that, of a large amount of automatic weapons that were stolen from a military base armory in Hawaii. This was back in 1980 at the time Eng was in the US Marines. Several suspects in this theft were arrested, including Ing. He was facing a court martial, but in escaped custody. And then he went into hiding and made his way to Northern California. When agents caught up with him, Ing was living at this Indian Creek ranch with Leonard Lake and Lake's wife, who were the two were working as caretakers at this ranch at the time. Now, Captain, I am unsure if Leonard Lake was charged with harboring a fugitive. Lake told officials that Ing was just a friend of his and that he did not know that he was a wanted federal fugitive. But I've reviewed information that states yes, in fact, Lake was aware that Ing was wanted and he allowed Ing to move in with him solely because he was wanted and needed to get out of Hawaii.

[Colonel]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

This will be a major triggering moment in this week's story. This will have a domino effect for not all, but many of the crimes that we will be discussing here in the garage. Because after the raid, Leonard Lake was released on bond, but then he jumps bail. So he decided then and there that he would live his life on the run. Strange situation. He's harboring a fugitive, and during the bust, when they pick up Ing, they bring Leonard Lake up on several weapons charges. And once he makes the bond, he jumps bail. He decides to then become a fugitive himself. He decided that he would hide out and live his life on the run. He's not like the, this doesn't seem like the most brilliant of maneuvers here, but it seemed to have worked. So he decides he's going to move out and hide out in this remote cabin that was owned by his wife. Her name is Clairlin Balaz. It was actually, I believe is actually owned by her parents. So this is in Wilsleyville, which is a community in Calaveras County, California, located in the foothills of Sierra Nevada.

[Colonel]

Yeah, it's very remote.

[Nick (Host)]

So in was sent off to marine custody. As we would expect, he pled guilty to the charges, he pled guilty to fleeing. And under the terms of that plea deal he was paroled and dishonorably discharged. But this will not take place until 1984 after ING serves 18 months in the military stockade at the US Disciplinary Barracks in Leavenworth. Once he's released, he will then join back up with his buddy Leonard Lake again in Northern California.

[Colonel]

Back to the cabin.

[Nick (Host)]

Let's fill in the blanks here on who these guys are and what happens between the time of this 1982 raid and 1984 when the two meet up again. So these two are real monsters, both unique from each other, but a lot of similarities as well as I think that we will see as we venture along here.

[Advertiser]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Charles Ng was born and raised for many years in British Hong Kong before moving to the States and then joining the US Marines. He was a Bruce Lee wannabe type. He also had fantasies of running organized robbery weapons and bank heist. This type of illegal operations similar to the one that he got busted for. To put it in its simplest of forms, he basically wanted to get a group of military types together, organize them in mastermind plots to steal and rob weapons from military bases, US military bases, and then sell the guns for large sums of money and carry out violent group bank robberies as well. Kind of like forming an A team but for bad guys. High risk, highly profitable illegal operations. Charles Ng wanted to be like the Hans Gruber. But he and his recruits get busted on their first go round. Leonard lake, he's about 18 years older than Charles Ng. Lake called in Charlie most of the time as we said, Lake was married. This is to Clairlin Blaze. Now after the raid on the house and once Leonard decided that it he was cool with being a fugitive, the two of them made it official to split up. They separated and they made it official with a divorce. What it looks to me, Captain, and plenty of evidence to back this up is that while there was this divorce, this was not a complete break because it very Much turned into a friends with benefits type situation.

[Colonel]

It was basically, let's get a divorce, but we're going to still be in a relationship together. So we're just separated on paper.

[Nick (Host)]

Separated in on paper, but also separated for. I wouldn't say all of the time, but most of the time. Right. Like, so from my understanding, the way that this panned out is the two would continue to carry on a sexual and romantic relationship. Leonard Lake is again living at this. Hiding out at this cabin that belongs to Clairlin's parents. Even after they separate, she would often spend like the weekends there with him or may go out there for a couple of weeks at a time. But the deal that they kind of had was Clair Lynn didn't want to live her life on the run.

[Colonel]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Leonard Lake thought that she was far too young. She was much younger than he was. He thought that she was far too young and had too much left of her life in front of her, that she didn't need to get all wrapped up into his troubles with the law.

[Guest/Expert]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Because if they find him and her together, she's likely going to be facing all kinds of charges similar to what happened to him when he was hosting Charles Ng.

[Colonel]

Yeah. So basically it seems like this guy was intent on. On living a life of crime or living his life however he wanted to. And if that involved crime, so be it. But if they come to get me, I'm not coming willingly.

[Nick (Host)]

You nailed it. That's. That's exactly what it appears that he wished to do. So the two of them, they struck up this kind of deal. They were still going to be friends with benefits, and Leonard Lake would be hiding. And hopefully for him and for Clarlin, she would remain beyond the reach of the law because she's not tethered to him.

[Colonel]

Well, this is almost a perfect hiding out spot because it has a very long driveway, it's gated. So if somebody's coming to try to find Leonard, he would have a heads up to get your stuff, get out of the house, hide in the woods for about an hour, and then once they leave, you go back to the property.

[Nick (Host)]

It's a little surprising to me and I think it will be to the listeners as well as we continue on here, because I feel like if they were really looking for Leonard Lake, if they were really concerned about him, that he's like two degrees from his ex wife.

[Guest/Expert]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

It wouldn't be very difficult. It wouldn't take the world's greatest detective to track this man down.

[Colonel]

And law enforcement is probably not going to be open and honest about this, but I wonder how many times they went out to this property to look for him and were just bamboozled because, like I said, he could go hide out somewhere for a while and then come back when they're gone.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, I'm with you. I agree on that. The only issue, though, I think. I don't think they were actually even looking for him. There's indicators from law enforcement that they didn't consider him to be a priority fugitive.

[Colonel]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

While Leonard Lake thought that he was. And so he thinks he's on the run, needs to live in hiding. But the truth is, the people he's running and hiding from, they're not really looking for him.

[Colonel]

Yeah, he's. He's playing a solo game of hide and seek.

[Nick (Host)]

Leonard Lake would go on to be just about every type of criminal that one can think of. Like the captain said, he's. He's decided that this is now going to be his lifestyle. And if he has to commit crimes to provide for himself, for his own survival, then so be it. He will. So he will go on to commit every kind of crime that one can think of. So before we get into the really bad stuff, this guy was already into extortion, theft, and he was very much a con man and attempting to make. To commit cons on the regular. He had a few very unhealthy obsessions as well. He was obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves, and he was obsessed with making pornography. This through photography, filming and producing pornography. He liked to make pornography for several reasons. He was building his own personal collection, but he would also use the materials he created for extortion purposes. He called this sex cons. Today we see and hear words like sextortion. We have seen this type of disgusting behavior and bullying, frankly, from pedophiles, online predators, and even high school students. And this is typically where he would get someone to commit to being involved and agree to being involved in either photographs or actual filming of pornography, and then later use it to extort them for multiple reasons. It could be for to force them into sex acts later or to extort money from them. He used this for all kinds of different purposes. And in fact, I've reviewed plenty of cases, especially in the 70s, where pedophiles would use this type of tactic where they would pay or give alcohol and maybe even marijuana to teenage boys to take photographs of them and then later threaten to show those pictures to their parents and get them to do things that they otherwise would not be willing to do. And that's exactly what online predators are doing and even high school students are doing these days with their cell phones and persons that they meet on the Internet.

[Colonel]

And anybody following the news right now, this is some of the stuff that they're claiming. Going after Puff Daddy about now.

[Nick (Host)]

As difficult as it may seem, I actually believe that Leonard Lake, as big of a hypocrite and a monster that he was, I do believe that he was capable of some form of love. Maybe not as we the normal folks would know it or understand love to be, but I do believe that he did love Clairlin Baz. And I also think that he loved the book the Collector. The Collector is a 1963 psychological thriller novel by John Fows. Some have even called it horror fiction. It's a rather brilliant book. Its plot follows a lonely young man who kidnaps a female art student in London. Her name in the book is Miranda. The man holds Miranda captive in the cellar of his rural farmhouse. Leonard Lake discovers this book as a young man and will read it several times during his lifetime. Remember, it is very evident that for much of Leonard's life he is obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves. These slaves, both for the purpose of performing work tasks and job duties, but also to possess sex slaves, a woman to have whenever he desires, to do whatever he desires and then put her away for later. I think this is in a way how and why Leonard Lake got involved with Charles Ng. So the way that these two meet and their law enforcement has spent a good deal of time trying to figure this out exactly when, where and how the two of them met. Because remember, Leonard Lake is in California and he's been out of the military for quite some time. Charles Ng is on the run from the military. Who he organize these guys, this group of guys to get together and steal automatic guns from the US Government. It sounds like another person retired from the military, connected the two. That Charles Ng was on the run, stayed with this retired sergeant who then put him in touch with Leonard Lake. And then he went to California and was hiding out there with Lake. It's believed that there was some kind of classified ad that was placed in one of those soldier of fortune or survivalist type magazines that Lake may have responded to. And that's how this whole relationship started. Now, the reason why I say that I think that this is why Lake got involved with in is that once in was staying with him, he knows the situation, he knows this guy is on the run. And so he is making him work for free. He's Basically working for room and board.

[Colonel]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

And doing all these jobs and things for Leonard Lake so that he has a place to hide out.

[Colonel]

Well, like you said, Leonard was in the army, served during Vietnam and was discharged, I believe, diagnosed with schizophrenia. Leonard Lake thought very highly of himself, thought he was this genius, thought if there was an apocalypse he would be the only person to survive and that he would have to seed the rest of the world. And in a way, this is how Charles kind of thought of himself.

[Nick (Host)]

Lake was born in San Francisco and in 1964 after high school he enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. He served two tours of duty in Vietnam. After a delusional breakdown, he was diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder. And then later he is, he receives a medical discharge from the Marine Corps. This is in 1971. Now back to the 80s. I had said earlier that this raid that led to Leonard Lake's wanted status would have a domino effect. Well, it most certainly did, in part because Leonard Lake needed to survive. He needed an income, he needed transportation, he needed a place to live. Well, some of that meant that he needed a different identity. So Lake from that day on was always on the lookout for how to make money, how to have a steady income and how to steal an identity and use that identity of someone else that he could pass for. Cars were always a thing that he was on the lookout for as well. So now we have to introduce Leonard's brother. His name Donald Lake. Donald Lake is about five years younger than Leonard. This will take us to December of 1982.

[Guest/Expert]

Captain.

[Nick (Host)]

So at this time, Donald Lake is about 32 at this point. Unfortunately, Donald suffered from a disability due to an accident when he was hit by a train as a kid. So he suffered mental problems. Leonard did not like his brother. The accident and subsequent disability required Donald to be taken care of almost around the clock. Leonard's parents were already separated when this accident took place. So now we have a single mom with an absent father and an additional needs child. Well, in this situation this meant that Leonard was sent off to be raised by his grandparents. When married, Leonard told his wife that his brother was a leech and that his brother did not deserve to live. In December of 1982, Donald was living with his mother. This is in San Fran. Leonard, pretending to be a good brother, offered to take Donald on a road trip. This for a house sitting job that Leonard was scheduled for. Leonard picked up Donald on the way and then all of a sudden Donald was never seen again. So the family reports Donald is missing with the police. Then a letter arrives at Bob's house. It's from Donald saying that he no longer wished to live with his mother and that he had decided to move to Reno, Nevada, and he had made arrangements for his monthly disability checks to be sent to him at his new address.

[Captain]

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[Colonel]

All right, we are back. Cheers mates. Tall cans in the air. Cheers to you Colonel.

[Nick (Host)]

Cheers to you Captain. This brings us to something that is called Operation Fish. And the way that this works here, Captain, is In May of 1983, Mr. Leonard Lake moved in with his friend Charles gunner. Charles is 36 at this time. From the outside looking in. My guess, Captain, is that most people would believe that Charles Gunner was Leonard Lake's best friend. I would go as far as to wager a Franklin that Gunner believed himself to be Leonard Lake's best friend. Gunner, like Lake, had a military background. Charles Gunner had retired from the Navy. Gunner was the best man at Lake's wedding back in 1981. They both shared an interest in survival skills, guns and collecting other types of weapons. So these two had known each Other pretty well for years. When they were married, they knew each other's wives. They spent time together. Lake spent time with Gunner's family and knew his two kid daughters as well. On May 22, the two took a road trip to Las Vegas, or maybe it was to Tahoe. Leonard Lake would tell people different locations both before and after the trip. Gunner was recently divorced from his wife, and he was the primary caregiver for his two daughters. The daughters did not go on this trip. This was to be a guy's road trip. Two old buddies, both single, hitting the road in Gunner's van. After the two were gone for a few days, Leonard Lake came cruising back into town, but he's alone and he's in Gunner's van. Lake tells everyone that while they were on their trip that his good buddy fell in love and ran off with some woman that he had just met. Lake said that he didn't know how anyone could get in touch with Gunner, but he was sure that eventually Gunner would return either to be with or to collect his two daughters. And what we now know, Captain, is that Charles Gunner was never seen again.

[Colonel]

No. Which makes two people that left with Lake never, never came back.

[Nick (Host)]

Now, a little reminder here. Charles in is locked up during all of this. He is serving his time in Kansas. Leonard Lake is living in this Wilsleyville, which is an unincorporated community in Calaveras County, California. It's not until after Charles is released in 1984 that the two meet up again. By the time that Charles Ng finds his way back to now, the fugitive living on the run, Leonard Lake. Lake is living alone. He's using the name Charles Gunner, and he has constructed a survival bunker directly behind his house. Now, we're going to say neighbors here, Captain, but as you know, and you've described some of this area where he's living, the neighbors are few and far between, to put it simple and short. But the neighbors that he has interaction with, these neighbors were told that again, this is Leonard Lake, AKA Charles Gunner. He's using this name, and that's how all of his neighbors know him to be Charles Gunner. He tells the neighbors that this building is kind of a just in case. It's like an emergency plan for the end times. Times that Lake believed were coming sooner rather than later. And that was true. Not the end times were upon us, but that the bunker was built as an emergency survival bunker. But according to Lake and what he would tell to Charles Ng when he gets there, that this bunker had another use and a more immediate purpose. And that purpose, Leonard Lake told Charles was something that Lake called Operation Miranda. Unfortunately, this remote area will afford these two the privacy they needed and desired. These two guys, they spent the next year stealing from their neighbors. What they would do is they had these different sheds or cabins, whatever you want to call them. Most, Most sources call them cabins, but these are very small structures where one might spend a night or a weekend or a couple of nights. This is not somewhere where one would live. Somebody might go there and rent the place or do a favor or work it, work the land for a little bit and get the opportunity to stay there briefly.

[Colonel]

Yeah, this wasn't like a resort. If you'd see these structures, you'd consider that you're going out to the woods to rough it.

[Nick (Host)]

It's like thousands of acres, I believe. And we're talking about a large sprawling ranch. Anybody that's seen Yellowstone knows what we're kind of talking about a very large plot of land. Except for those big, beautiful cabins that you see on the show Yellowstone, that.

[Guest/Expert]

Where do.

[Nick (Host)]

We don't have any big beautiful cabins or mansion type houses at. On these acres. On this acreage here, we have these smaller houses and then we also have these sheds or cabins, as they were called. Now, from my understanding, Captain, a lot of these cabins, the small ones that I'm talking about, were up in elevated land like in the. They're in the foothills, but these are elevated. What I think that Leonard Lake was doing is I think he was going up there, positioning himself inside one of these cabins so he can kind of spy on the neighbors who all live down below. And from this vantage point, from some of these vantage points, he could look into their houses where these persons lived. Long term, either renters or maybe even they had purchased the structure. But what this gave him the ability to do, because this area is so remote, we're not talking about having to kick in a door or break a window to get into these people's homes where they live. He would often just watch and wait, and when he could see that no one was there, sneak in a back door, maybe a side door, and steal valuables from these dwellings. Now, of course, everybody knows that this is going on, but nobody knows who's doing it. And in conversation with the other neighbors, Lake is telling them he's experiencing the same problems.

[Colonel]

I'm a victim as well.

[Nick (Host)]

Exactly. He's. He's a victim as well. The other thing that this remote area and his living situation affords him, unfortunately, and we know this on a couple of occasions, that Lake and Ing Lord people, men and women, at least a one woman that we could find to the cabin to their where they lived with the promise of work. Like, hey, we, we own this ranch. We're working this ranch. We're the caretakers here. We're also working the land. A couple of these people were told that Lake was running a pot farm, that he needed persons to come out and help work this pot farm. Like in one situation, one man arrives, he goes out there thinking he's got a job, showing up for work, and instead he finds Lake and in who end up robbing him and then killing the man.

[Advertiser]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Then there was the Dos family. We have husband and father. His name is Harvey Dubs. He was age 29 at the time. He placed an advertisement in a newspaper. And unfortunately, that listing caught the eye of a one Leonard Lake. Harvey Dubs was selling some video equipment. Lake needs some video equipment for his Miranda operation.

[Colonel]

I don't know if it was that he was selling it because he was also known to rent the equipment out to people.

[Nick (Host)]

Yeah, I mean, that could be a possibility. The, the information I have was that he was. It was a listing for this equipment be sold. But regardless, this is what's going to put Lake in contact with Harvey Dubs.

[Colonel]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

So on July 25, Harvey's wife Deborah was. She's talking on the telephone to a friend. During this conversation, the doorbell rings at their apartment. Deborah tells her friend on the other end, hey, I gotta go. I gotta. I gotta hop off the phone here. There's two men who are interested in the items that are listed and they've arrived. So she hops off the phone. Now, the Dubs family, they're living in an apartment building. They regularly spoke with and kept in contact with their neighbors, in particular their downstairs neighbor. So we have other people living in this building. The neighbors, after a while, start to notice that at some point in late July, the young couple with the little baby boy, that they were, you know, regularly seen going in and out of their apartment, they were no longer seen.

[Colonel]

Right.

[Nick (Host)]

Instead, more than one neighbor noticed an Asian man going in and out of the young couple's apartment.

[Colonel]

Yeah. There's multiple witnesses seeing men going in and out of the property carrying items, and they were able to give descriptions to police.

[Nick (Host)]

Then, in another strange turn of events, Harvey's work, Harvey Dub's work, receives a strange phone call from a man who identified himself as James Bright. This Mr. Bright told Harvey's employer that Harvey Dubs had to go to Washington state for a family Emergency and he may not be back anytime soon. So this family of three vanished, including the one year old Sean Dubs. It's believed that Lake and ing likely used the baby to control the parents, that once they got into the apartment under the ruse that they were there to look at the video equipment either for the purpose of renting or purchasing that. No, that's not what they were there to do. They were there to do much worse, include stealing said video equipment. But the thought here is, is that they used the little one to control the parents and then move, move the parents and the family as they pleased.

[Colonel]

And so obviously you have people reporting this family missing. Law enforcement gets involved, they're going to do a search of the property. And they know, hey, the last person to talk with anybody in this family, she was mentioning, these guys were coming over to look at this video equipment, very expensive video equipment. And guess what, the video equipment's gone. And they also found some, I think it was some phone wire that was tied to a door handle. And then he started thinking, well, maybe they tied an individual up as they're controlling the other members of the family. So right away the law enforcement wasn't just thinking that this family disappeared into thin air pretty quickly. Law enforcement was onto the idea that something bad probably happened to this family and it probably involved this camera equipment.

[Nick (Host)]

And the thing that is terrible here for all involved, the law enforcement and the neighbors and the family, the only leads that they really have is like you said there, captain, we have the neighbors who witnessed an Asian man going in and out of the apartment on, on several occasions. There's at least one eyewitness that spots the Asian man getting into a vehicle. I believe it was some kind of Volkswagen. And she's able to provide a description of the driver to law enforcement where she says it's a Caucasian male with a dark beard, a balding Caucasian male with a dark black beard. Really all they have to work off of law enforcement is this description of these two men. They're. And I hate to paint this horrible picture here, but police are really trying to dissect this situation and trying to figure out exactly the movements of everyone. Because the problem becomes in this situation at this scene is how the hell would these men have got a family of three out of this populated apartment building without being seen? Nobody saw anybody in the family leave that property. And so the thought was there was at least one witness that had seen the Asian man leaving the apartment carrying a large suitcase. There are some that think that possibly, like you had Said at some point someone's tied up with that telephone cord in the apartment. They think that maybe the small child was moved outside to a vehicle. And then with that threat already in place, the remaining abductor, who's still in the apartment with the parents, was able to control them in that manner and to get them to move quietly out to the car. They think that this took place overnight because of the time period of when the male is seen leaving the apartment with the large suitcase. And we do know that Leonard Lake, based off of what we've already discussed and things that we will go through as we continue on here, he's a weapons fanatic. We know he, and so is Charles Ng. So no doubt they, they likely used a gun in the scenario. But it's good to have a clear understanding that this apartment building was populated as such that you. They're not finding evidence other than that telephone cord that, that any kind of major scuffle took place inside this apartment. They're not finding any evidence that anybody was killed inside this apartment. So what everything is suggesting to law enforcement and investigators at the time is that somehow somebody was able to successfully move these individuals out of the apartment and also move any items that they desire to steal from the apartment.

[Colonel]

Yeah, well, you have two individuals, both military background, both weapon experts, both criminal experts, because they don't do just one crime. They do any crime that gets them from point A to point B. Whatever they're trying to do in their life, if there's a crime that can get them there, they will do it. And so I think what they did was, like you said, if we can get to the child, we can control the situation. And maybe they thought, doesn't matter if there is a child or not, if we can get to one of the members in the family who can control the situation. And the ruse probably was simply, hey, this is a robbery. We're only after camera equipment. This is how the crime is going to go down. And you will do what we say. And if you do what we say, nobody gets hurt. We're only after the camera equipment.

[Nick (Host)]

That's right. We got the kid in the car. We're just all going to go for a ride. We just need to get all of you out of the apartment and then the three of you will be safe. We'll drop you off somewhere. Again, it's, it's a situation where, yeah, we know Charles Ng is really into this high risk type of behavior and crimes, but at the same time, they, this is not the type of apartment building where we can have gunshots going off without anybody noticing. In fact, there, there were a couple of people that lived near this young couple that said, we think that they went missing on this date because we, we live so close to one another. You can often hear each other through the walls or through the floors. And we stopped hearing this very active young family on this date. And that's when police and detectives are going, this is on the same date that Deborah's on the phone with a friend and says she's got to hang up. There's some people at the door that are here to look at this video. That's July 25th. Make sure you come back to the garage for part two. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.

[Colonel]

Sam.

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