The Skelton Brothers /// Part 2

Summary

Summary of “True Crime Garage: The Skelton Brothers /// Part 2”

Podcast Information

• Title: True Crime Garage
• Hosts: Nic and the Captain
• Episode: The Skelton Brothers /// Part 2
• Release Date: July 2, 2025

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Introduction

In the latest episode of True Crime Garage, hosts Nic and the Captain delve deeper into the harrowing case of the Skelton brothers—Alexander, Andrew, and Tanner—who went missing from Morenci, Michigan, in late 2010. This second part of their discussion builds upon the timeline and complexities surrounding the disappearance, exploring new developments and persistent theories.

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Timeline of Events

The hosts revisit the critical milestones in the Skelton brothers' case:

• Late 2010: The three brothers—Alexander (7), Andrew (9), and Tanner (5)—disappear from Morenci, Michigan.
• February 1, 2011: The case is officially upgraded to a murder investigation by Police Chief Larry Weeks, emphasizing the cessation of false hope.
• November 2013: The investigation is transferred to the Michigan State Police.
• December 18, 2017: Partial remains, including bones and teeth, are discovered in a shed at a rental home in Missoula, Montana.

Key Quote:

Chief of Police Larry Weeks stated, "We wanted to put an end to false hope." [03:05]

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Discovery of Partial Remains in Montana

The episode discusses the significant yet ultimately incongruent discovery of remains in Montana:

• Findings: The remains found were over 99 years old, deemed archaeological rather than related to the missing brothers.
• Expert Analysis: An anthropology professor estimated the ages of the bones and teeth matched those of the Skelton brothers.
• Police Statement: Michigan State Police coordinated with Missoula authorities but found no prior links between the brothers and Montana.

Key Quote:

Sgt. Travis Welsh of the Missoula Police Department mentioned, "We are working with the national center for Missing and Exploited Children... but there is no known link to Montana." [09:38]

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Theories Explored

Nic, the Captain, and co-host Chris D'Elia examine several prevailing theories regarding the fate of the Skelton brothers:

1. Boys Are Still Alive

   • Possible Locations: Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana—areas with Amish, Mennonite, or Reorganized Mormon communities.
   • Challenges: Lack of cell phone records placing John Skelton in these areas, making it difficult to trace their whereabouts.
   • Speculation: Potential connections to John Skelton’s family in Florida are unverified due to insufficient evidence.

   Key Quote:

   Chris D'Elia remarks, "If John did give them to somebody and they took them out to Montana, that they killed them there... But there is no known link between the skeleton boys and anyone in Montana." [06:35]

2. Boys Were Handed Off and Possibly Harmed

   • Possibility of Being Duped: John claims he entrusted the boys to an underground foster system, potentially falling victim to malicious actors.
   • Lack of Evidence: No substantial proof that the entities John referred to—such as "United Foster Outreach"—exist or were involved.

   Key Quote:

   Nick states, "They're saying, 'maybe he was duped,' but they have no evidence to support the existence of those groups." [32:49]

3. Boys Are Dead and Remains Are Hidden

   • John’s Defense: Suggests possible disposal of remains but lacks cooperation with authorities.
   • Law Enforcement’s View: Emphasis on uncovering the truth through potential future revelations or breakthroughs in the case.

   Key Quote:

   The Captain highlights, "If you're not going to be with me, then you're not going to get my children either... But he's not man enough to state what he did and he's not man enough to have closure." [40:03]

4. John Skelton's Possible Mental State

   • Break with Reality: Speculation that John might have a delusional perception of events.
   • Lack of Transparency: Continues to provide evasive answers, hindering the investigation.

   Key Quote:

   Nick muses, "What if he does something terrible and they're no longer with us, but he doesn't know because he had a complete break with reality?" [45:03]

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Law Enforcement Efforts and Challenges

The hosts discuss the extensive efforts by law enforcement and volunteers to locate the Skelton brothers:

• Search Operations: Intensive searches covering large rural areas around Holiday City, Ohio, and neighboring regions.
• Forensic Testing: DNA analysis ultimately revealed the remains in Montana were not the brothers.
• Community Involvement: Continuous appeals for information and tips from the public remain crucial.

Key Quote:

Nick emphasizes, "There is a large reward for good information in this case and police need your help and they need tips." [54:00]

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Impact on the Family

The emotional toll on the family, particularly on Tanya Zoovers, the boys' mother, is evident:

• Tanya’s Grief: Continues to hope for the safe return of her sons while managing other children.
• Family’s Belief: Remain convinced of John’s claims of abuse and the possibility that the boys are alive and with someone.

Key Quote:

Chris D'Elia reflects, "I can't imagine going through what she has had to go through." [53:34]

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Current Status and Continuing Search

As of the episode's release, the Skelton brothers remain missing. Law enforcement remains cautiously optimistic about uncovering new evidence that could bring closure to this painful case.

Recommended Reading:

• Book: 76 Minutes: My Search for Andrew, Alexander, and Tanner Skelton by Lynn Thompson
• Availability: Listed on truecrimegarage.com under the recommended reading section.

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Conclusion

True Crime Garage provides a comprehensive and empathetic exploration of the Skelton brothers' disappearance, highlighting the complexities and enduring uncertainties that surround the case. Through meticulous discussion and analysis, Nic and the Captain shed light on the ongoing search for answers, urging listeners to stay informed and contribute any relevant information that may aid in resolving this tragic mystery.

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Final Note

Listeners are encouraged to support the investigation by staying vigilant and providing any leads to the Morenci Police Department or through the dedicated hotline provided by the hosts.

Contact Information:

• Morenci Police: 517-458-7104
• The Lost Hotline: 1-800-THE-LOST

Closing Quote:

Nick concludes, "Please be good, be kind, and don't litter." [56:06]

Transcript

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[Nick]

USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions. Welcome to True Crime Garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always, the Tower of Power. Too sweet to be sour. He is the Captain one of Like.

[Chris D'Elia]

Chris Dalia says, I'm just like Brian Callan. I got a sweet tart tartan ass. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. Thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick]

Today we are very happy to be drinking Hop Solution by one of the best Bell's Brewery up in Michigan. Garage grade 4 out of 5 Bottle caps Year round availability for this great beer only includes Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin and beginning in April, Minnesota ABV a very delicious 8%. And we are sipping beers today thanks to these guys and gals right here. Cheers to Marla in Chicago and a.

[Chris D'Elia]

Big shout out to Michael and Safi in Atlanta, Georgia.

[Nick]

Here's one from the bitchy air traffic controller in Memphis. Their words not mine.

[Chris D'Elia]

And in the oh, we have Doug and Anna in Delaware, Ohio.

[Nick]

Next up we have sisters Jessica and Megan. Megan is in Durham. Great city, Durham, North Carolina. And also in North Carolina. In Harrisburg we have Ryan. Duke is going to win the NCAA tournament this year by the way. Bet the farm. Thanks everybody for going to true crimegarage.com and donating for this week's beer fund.

[Chris D'Elia]

And make sure when you're at the website truecrimegarage.com you sign up on our mailing list and leave a little love for us on the blog. And that is enough of the business.

[The Captain]

All right.

[Nick]

Cheers to you Captain. Cheers to everybody out there. Gather round, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some True crime. On yesterday's show. Captain, we started off by going through the timeline of events of late 2010 regarding the missing three boys, regarding the missing three Skelton brothers, where we left off is talking about what's going on with John after this situation. So we do know that John is locked up, but during his lockup, he and Tanya, they do get a divorce. And John gets charged in the disappearance of his kids and gets sentenced to 10 to 15 years for unlawful imprisonment of his children. He goes to prison for this. February 1, 2011, police announced that the Skelton brothers missing persons case is now a murder investigation. The chief of police, Larry Weeks, said, quote, he wanted to put an end to false hope. In November of 2013, the Morenci Police turned the investigation over to the Michigan state police. And then there was this. On December 18, 2017, Michigan police are investigating whether the partial remains of three children found in a shed of a rental home in Missoula, Montana, could belong to the brothers missing for more than seven years. At this point, the remains, which included fragments of bones and teeth, could be those of the brothers Alexander, Andrew and Tanner Skelton, who went missing in Michigan in 2010. Investigators set out to determine whether this discovery would finally solve the mystery. A few things we need to discuss regarding this discovery. One, the experts believe the ages of the boys could be consistent with the remains found. Police Emozula found the remains in the shed of a rental home after cleaners reported them to the police in September. According to the Missoulan. That's a local newspaper.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

A spokesperson for Missoula Police Department, Sgt. Travis Welsh, told the outlet, there is no suspect, but they did want to interview a specific person. It was reported that a tenant was evicted from the home over that last summer When a cleaning crew was brought in. Workers found a box containing teeth and bones. According to the Associated Press, an anthropology professor at the University of Montana estimated that the ages of the remains of the children's remains that were found were to be 2 to 4 years old, 5 to 8 years old, and 6 to 10 years old.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Chris D'Elia]

Meaning that if John did give them to somebody and they took them out to Montana, that they killed them there, or maybe that John killed them and then gave them to somebody that took them out there to be buried or to be hidden or whatever. But they would have been dead roughly about the ages they went missing.

[Nick]

Correct. Now, the tricky thing, though, however, is there is no known link between the skeleton boys and anyone in Montana.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And as you were pointing out, you know, we have to remember, law enforcement tracked John Skelton's phone. They believe they know his movements and his whereabouts during the time in question. And this location, it's like a 25 hour drive from Morenci, Michigan to Missoula, Montana. So for this, for these remains to be the skeleton boys, somebody else would have had to have been involved.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

All right. But this is pieced together from some articles, so we'll get back to the article here. Michigan State Police investigators are working with Missoula police to determine if there is any connection to Andrew Alexander and Tanner Skelton, who were reported missing from Morenci the day after Thanksgiving in 2010. The state police announced in a statement, quote, there has been nothing previously reported to the police linking the brothers to Montana. Further forensic testing has been requested by police that may provide more answers. Until this testing is completed, an additional investigation by law enforcement in Montana occurs in it cannot be determined if these remains belong to the missing Skelton brothers. Quote.

[Chris D'Elia]

Now, when's this testing going to be done, though?

[Nick]

Well, this is going to be extensive. It's going to take months for them to figure out if it is in fact the three boys. Now, Tanya Zoovers, the boy's mother, she took the Facebook after this remind you they are divorced by this time. Tanner goes to Facebook after police made the possible link public and asked for prayers for her family, saying, quote, this information has just been presented to our family within the last several hours. We are processing it and hopeful that we will have answers soon. We are thankful for all of your thoughts and prayers. According to the newspaper articles, Tanya has continued to buy Christmas, birthday and Easter gifts for her sons and in the hope that one day they would come home.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah, it's weird because you see some interviews where she's breaking down and crying a lot. And then I saw one interview that I thought was strange for a minute. She talked about how her boys wouldn't want to see her upset, her boys wouldn't want to see her stop living life, not progressing in life. So she's been trying to do that. I thought that was very strange at first until you see the multiple interviews where she is breaking down, where she can't control it. So, you know, I would assume that at some point when you break down that often, you'd have to tell yourself, hey, I got to do this. Maybe it's not for me, maybe it's for my children.

[Nick]

Well, and police in that area are announcing that they are trying to identify the remains, but they're also trying to determine the causes of death regarding those remains.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And they State, quote, we are working with the national center for Missing and Exploited Children and other missing persons databases to see if that's a possibility. A spokesperson for the Missoula Police Department told KPA X tv. They also added, quote, the thing is, there are missing children all over the world. And the thing in this case, we don't know that this particular case is isolated to the city of Missoula. We don't know where the bones came from and if they were transported from one area to another and then ended up here.

[Chris D'Elia]

You have, like you said, similar ages and the fact that there's three boys, there's. How many cases are like that? The percentage goes down a lot.

[Nick]

The remains have been sent to the University of North Texas center for Human Identification for DNA testing, which runs the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System. So it took some time, as we stated, and I think it was about six months for answers to be found regarding the remains in Montana. Here are their findings. The teeth and bone fragments found inside a shed at a Missoula house in September are more than 99 years old, according to a report from a national forensic lab. Missoula County Chief Deputy Coroner Lt. Jace Dickin said the center for Human Identification has concluded that the bone fragments and teeth are archaeological in nature and at least a century old. The report stated that they likely were buried somewhere else for some time before being unearthed.

[Chris D'Elia]

So this is. Don't got him, right? Yeah, don't got him. And it makes me go back to what John's family says. They're 100% convinced that what he's saying, that he gave the boys to somebody and then they're alive. They 100% believe. And his father even said, when it's all said and done, we'll see who has the last laugh. Which is one. A weird thing to say because your. Your grandkids are missing, but that's how sure he is of what his son is telling him.

[Nick]

Right. Well, and then think about this situation for a little bit. You know, Tanya is hearing about this. They found the remains of three children.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

She has three children that are missing. And I actually, I'm not certain that the. The sex, the gender of the remains was able to be determined at that time or if it ever was.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

But what are the percentages? You know, I mean, we talked about that when we covered the. The body barrel case, right. Where you have multiple people that are missing and then multiple people that are found, their remains are found. What are the percentages? It can't be very high. It can't be very high. So then she's this poor woman sitting there wondering. That's got to be the absolute hell of the parent of a missing child or missing children to hear this information and go, it could be them. I don't know. Nobody knows for certain. Oh, and it's going to take. Because of science, it's nobody's fault. It's going to take months before they can give me an answer. It's going to take six months. Six to eight months, I think, was the original estimated time that they expected to.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah, but if you don't find these and you don't have a test coming up, then you have no end date of possible answer.

[Nick]

Right.

[Chris D'Elia]

And that's your real hell, is when you just don't know. I mean, there's so many parents that have their kids go missing, and they'll say, look, we've kind of given up hope at this point, but we still want to know. So they'll take the death, but tell us why and how it happened. They'll take that over not knowing anything.

[Nick]

Well, and I remember when this story broke about the remains being found in Montana because we had many people that requested that we cover the Skelton Brothers case before those remains were found.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And then when that happened, we were getting even more requests to cover the Skelton Brothers case. And by the way, what a lot of people in the media were saying is, it's got to be the boys. It's got to be the boys.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

I mean, that was the initial reaction by everyone, that this is these three missing boys. And again, to their. To their credit, to vouch for them, what is the percentages? It's got. Can't be very high at all. So that's where you would go. But now that we know that it was not these boys, so where does that leave us, Captain? You know, theories.

[Chris D'Elia]

Us in the garage, theories we're still.

[Nick]

Here, that we should explore, I think, is where it leaves us.

[Chris D'Elia]

Okay.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Chris D'Elia]

But we're going to explore them in the garage.

[Nick]

Yes.

[The Captain]

Okay.

[Nick]

Not in Montana or in that weird shed where the remains were found. Okay, so let's. There. There's multiple theories, like smaller theories that will be inside of one of four big ones. Okay. The first big one is, are the boys still alive? Now, there are multiple avenues you could take with this thought and theory, and a lot of them come from John's stories, and some of them come from speculation from Tanya and from her family and from the media, from armchair detectives and message boards. So let's Start with. I want to start with an easy one.

[The Captain]

Okay.

[Nick]

Because some of these could be quite involved. The first one I want to point out under the. Under the title of are the boys still alive? Could they be in Florida? We know that John had ties to Florida.

[Chris D'Elia]

Now, family there. Yeah.

[Nick]

Yes. He has family there. He has friends there. The first obstacle you have with that being a correct theory is one, we know of his cell phone movements. We know his cell phone didn't go down to Florida. So this is similar to the idea of if the remains in Montana were the boys, that this would require some help.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

That he delivered the boys to somebody or they were picked up at his home or some kind of location and then delivered to Florida. Now, this could mean that they were picked up by family members of his or he met family members of his somewhere, or it could mean that he handed them off and they were transported to Florida. The major obstacle that I think you have with this theory is, and where I think you can easily take it off of the dry erase board here is I think that's too easy to trace for law enforcement. I think it's too easy to look into that and to determine if that's correct or not.

[Chris D'Elia]

Well, law enforcement and FBI have. They've said, we don't even know if this person that he claims he dropped him off to is real because the lack of evidence that he had communications with somebody else. They have his phone records, they have his Google searches, they have his computer, and there doesn't seem to be much contact with somebody else.

[Nick]

Right. I do want to point out one thing here that I learned in a phone call last night. So last night I spoke with Lynn Thompson. He's the author of the only book that I know to be out there regarding this case. And one thing he had said during our phone call was he said that it is his understanding that John's cell phone at the time that the boys went missing was relatively new to him. It was practically a brand new phone.

[The Captain]

Okay.

[Nick]

Makes me wonder, like, were they. What happened with the old phone? What happened with that data? What happened with that information? Were they able to track that? Were they able to comb through it? We know they were able to check his computer.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

I feel like there's not a whole lot of weight to this Florida idea unless they're with someone that somehow the police can't. Can't check into it, can't easily make the leap from John to family to this person that has them. I think that's too easy to check out. And too easy to check off the list. One thing that's interesting, and Tanya said this in an interview, so this is off of her speculation, she says. And this is kind of her wishful thinking, I believe, is what she says.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Is that maybe the boys are in the Bahamas.

[The Captain]

Why?

[Nick]

Well, that seems like a leap, right?

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah. You think? Okay, so Michigan to the Bahamas.

[Nick]

What she says is that John's father has a connection to the Bahamas, that he is. That he goes down there. He travels down there once or twice or maybe a couple times a year. I don't know how often. But according to Tanya's words, he travels to the Bahamas and it's. He's there to like, service some boats and things like that.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And so her wishful thinking is that somehow John convinced his family that the abuse that he claimed was real and that the family stepped in, got involved, helped John get the boys and took them to the Bahamas where they would be. I mean, the trail breadcrumbs from Morenci, Michigan to the Bahamas.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

Is got to be.

[Chris D'Elia]

But we don't know what the whereabouts are for the family. His family in Florida, right there in Jacksonville, Florida. No. I mean, but we don't know. Like on that Thursday, did he call up his dad and say, hey, meet me here?

[Nick]

Yeah, that's an interesting thought there. You have to believe that they've. That they were tracking or at least attempting to question the. The parents, John's parents.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

Figure out where they were. Can. Do you have anybody that can vouch for you? Do you have an alibi for this time frame?

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

But you know what's weird too, is there was at least one instance where Tanya says that John's parents came to the area where they live, where Tanya and John lived, visited friends and didn't even really like they were there visiting and home and gone back home without even telling Tanya and John. So it's not crazy to think that they couldn't have moved into the area without Tanya knowing, especially once they were separated, living in different residents. But that kind of thing also makes me question, well, how tight really are John or were John and his parents.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah, because they. Well, they live so far apart, too.

[Nick]

Now here's. Here's where things get a little more difficult. So we have some kind of connection to that. The boys are alive, but could be in Michigan, Ohio or Indiana. Now, this is pieced together from different stories that John has told that they could be with a foster family in one of those areas, maybe Amish, Mennonite, or reorganized Mormons Right. Those are the. The groups that he. He suggests or that he lists for us. Regarding this, he does give some other names. So we have the name of Joanne Taylor, but at one point, he gives the name of four people. We have Joanne Taylor, we have somebody named Virgil, someone named sue, and someone named Elijah. These are people that he say works for this. You know, works for this is. Is the wrong phrase.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

But is involved in this underground foster care system that the boys were being abused. And he entrusted these four people to assist him to get the kids to safety where they could go out and live and grow and become adults and then go off on their own.

[The Captain]

He. He.

[Nick]

We talked about all the cryptic messages. There's another quote that he has, and I think he's repeated this a few times.

[The Captain]

Okay.

[Nick]

It's. They. And this is in reference to the three boys. They will hibernate until they graduate. They will hibernate until they graduate.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Chris D'Elia]

But that's. It's like if his parents did help him out in some way or somebody else helped him out, then you have to think that that individual then also questioned the boys about what was going on. And you have to think that whoever talked to them that these allegations of sexual abuse or abuse would be real.

[Nick]

Or at least they believe them to.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Chris D'Elia]

And then that what. Then you wouldn't be coming forward to the authorities because look what they did to John. John said, hey, I gave him somebody and they arrested him.

[Nick]

Yeah. And you hope, and you just have to pray that there's not somebody out there sitting somewhere that assisted John Skelton, only to later believe that the abuse was not real, and then refuses to come forward because they're afraid of being imprisoned.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

For that action.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

I mean, if I could talk to that person, I would beg them, beg them, please just come forward, tell us what happened, or produce the boys. And.

[Chris D'Elia]

Well, the boys are so big now that it's like they could be getting on the Internet. They could be reaching out for somebody eventually.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, the oldest boy was nine at the time of the disappearance in 2010. And they're right. I don't have their birth dates right in front of me, but they're all towards the end of the year, the later part of the year. So they all would have had birthdays at the end of last year, in 2018. Right. So, yeah, one of them, the oldest boy would be 17 years old going on 18.

[Chris D'Elia]

I do think if they're with the Amish because they had some reporters actually go talk to the Amish about this, that anything, like in Ohio or Michigan, that those Amish communities would have known that these boys were missing and they would have probably contacted police.

[Nick]

Did you listen to the Shattered podcast?

[Chris D'Elia]

No, I didn't have a chance to.

[Nick]

Well, you know what was interesting, so. So for those that don't know, it's Shattered Podcast. It's created by a group of people that work for Channel 4 News up in the Michigan area.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And they've taken on a few different Michigan cases. This is one of the cases that they looked into. And one of the most interesting portions of their coverage of this case that I thought was what you just referenced there, about people going out and interviewing Amish people and. And finding out, one, were you aware of the disappearance of these three boys? And two, what is your opinion? Would. Would an Amish person help in regards to the situation?

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, help foster these boys? And I found it fascinating. They interviewed just two. Two families, I believe it was. But both of them had the same answer and was, yes, we would help. If we thought that these boys needed help, we would take care of them, we would feed them, we would keep them warm. But during that whole process, we would notify the police and say, hey, I got these three kids that somebody dropped off.

[Chris D'Elia]

Which you should do.

[Nick]

Right? Right. Everybody should do. And I. It's not that I question that they wouldn't, but it was interesting to hear these reporters and people go out of their way to confirm, you know, would this be something that. That Amish people or people from any other walk of life would do?

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

The other thing here regarding this, though, where there could be some weight to this theory and to this. This version of John's stories is if they are in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, where. I mean, those states all touch each other, they're all very close. Right. So we know that John's cell phone went to Holiday City, Ohio. And in regards to the Amish, Mennonites, Reorganized Mormons. Ohio does have a large Amish population, as does Indiana.

[Chris D'Elia]

Well, at some point, I think that's what John starts claiming is the group that they're with lives on the border of Ohio and Indiana, which I actually lived on the border, like I was in Indiana, but half a mile away was the Ohio border. And a lot of that is just acres upon acres of farmland.

[Nick]

Well, and you know, Holiday City is northwest of Columbus. We're right in the middle of Ohio.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

So northwest. That's definitely going to put you closer to that Indiana state. State line.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And just because he went to Holiday City doesn't mean that that's where they have to be. Somebody could have picked him up and he could have met somebody halfway or a part of the way there. The other thing too that's, that's interesting is if in fact they are handed off with the idea of them going into foster care because they were in danger is sometimes these groups. And when I say these groups, I'm just kind of air quotes here referencing an unknown group here that we're talking about. You got to believe that they have certain security measures involved that they don't. May not disclose everything to anyone involved on the surface so that they can keep the kids safe so that they don't end up getting in trouble themselves. One and two, losing the children to where they're returned to a bad situation.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah, because if I give John a fake name, then you can never track me down.

[Nick]

The other thing too that goes along the same lines is that John told investigators he gave the boys to a group called and we have two names here. One is United Foster Outreach and Underground Sanctuaries. As everything that I could find. Public statements by law enforcement. No such group was found to exist.

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[The Captain]

All right, we're back.

[Nick]

Cheers. Cheers, Cheers, cheers, Cheers. All right, so continuing on the idea of these different theories. Okay, so second on the list we have the Boys were handed off to someone, as John said, but possibly he was duped. Now this comes from, this comes from an interview that he did do where he does say, you know, I've not heard from these people, I've not talked to these people. I handed them off to them. And who knows, maybe I was duped. So this would be the idea. There's a few different ideas involved in this one. One, could they still be alive, yet they were given to bad people for nefarious reasons.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

Unbeknownst to John, or could they be no longer with us, hand it off to bad people? Or do we. One thing we've not discussed too, you know, we discussed the, the percentages of what would it be that there are three missing kids that are under the age of 10 and then three remains of children found that are believed to be under 10. What's the chances of that? But what we didn't discuss is could the kids be separated? Could they be alive and they've been separated?

[Chris D'Elia]

Well, if, if they're bad people. Yeah, because you can control people better if you, you know, you separate and then conquer.

[Nick]

Or if they're, if they're good people, are they separated because they're less chance of detection, less. They're not as easy to be identified.

[The Captain]

Right. Yeah.

[Chris D'Elia]

But again, I think the duping part, okay, so if we believe John and we go, okay, well, this girl that he met randomly because her car broke down and then they stayed in contact, that this person, Joanne Taylor, just so happened to be, which that's not a real name, but just so happened to be a person that was connected with child pedophilia rings. And he said, my kids are being molested. And she said, I'll take them. And then he gives them to her and then she sends them off to other pedophiles. That seems so far fetched. Like you'd have to believe all the stuff that he said.

[Nick]

Oh, of course, yeah. I mean, that's part of that theory is that he actually did hand them off and then unbeknownst to him, the people he gave them to were actually bad people.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah. But I don't know, it's. It's like if they're good people and they're afraid of getting in trouble, it's like you could go to a heavily populated area like McDonald's or something and just go, kids go in there and then tell them that you're missing. And then they'll call authorities and within a day we'd figure out who they were. There's so many things. If they went to good people, how they could get back. If they went to bad people and they were duped. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But if. If it did happen, they're dead and we'll never find them, so.

[Nick]

Right. I mean. Well, and it goes back to what you said earlier. Where. Where is the trace? Where is the breadcrumb trail between John and whoever he handed these people off to? He says he maintained some kind of relationship with this Joanne Taylor after they met on the side of the road somewhere when he helped her, when her car broke down. They maintain their relationship through the Internet. Where's the trace of that? Where's the. You know, they checked his computer. He doesn't have her phone number.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

His phone doesn't register. You know, he's not text her on his phone. She's not text him. They've had no communication via phone, just the Internet. But we can't find anybody that.

[Chris D'Elia]

Was there an app like WhatsApp app or whatever where they can text through it.

[Nick]

Well, and I think his response to that was something to the effect of, well, maybe. Maybe this group is just really good at what they do, that they're the ones that. They're the ones that clean this.

[Chris D'Elia]

They cleaned it all up.

[Nick]

They cleaned it all up, and there's no trace of them because they're like ghosts. They're like phantoms.

[Chris D'Elia]

I didn't. I didn't break anything in the house. They broke it. That's what happened. They. I was asleep. They must have went into the house and took my cell phone and then drove down to Ohio.

[Nick]

Mm.

[Chris D'Elia]

He has a story. He has a. He has explanation for everything. And look, if we had my way, would have that game show called the Psychotic Clown Interrogators, right? And we would be. We'd have a bunch of psychotic clowns in a room with John right now getting answers. It's just, you know.

[Nick]

Well, that's interesting, too, because you have a couple of different thoughts that I. That I go to when I think of that one. You know, in the statement that he has an answer for everything. That's a very fair statement. He comes up with a nice story for everything that you throw at him.

[The Captain]

Right?

[Nick]

And sometimes what's the most damn frustrating thing out there is that sometimes he just goes, I can't tell you that. Yeah, I. Dude, I've never. We've covered a lot of cases. I can't remember another time where we have someone that's just like, nope, sorry. Can't tell you that.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And he's cool with that. And in law, can you imagine how frustrated law enforcement has to be when they, because they go back and they talk to this guy. It's not like they don't know where he is. They go back and talk to him periodically. What's going on, John? Tell us what really happened, John. And sometimes he gives him a story and other times he just gets at. I can't tell you that.

[Chris D'Elia]

Well, I tell him, John, every time you tell me you can't tell me something gonna break one of your ribs. That's what I'd tell him.

[Nick]

Well, you've been watching too much True Detective because you can't do that. But the thing, the thing where I go with that is with him having an answer for everything is one he's got no, he's got nothing else going on. He's got plenty of time to sit around and dream up answers for everything. Right, Right. The other thing though, it is a bit of a police tactic. Not so much them because I mean it's the courts, it's technically the court system that put john in prison 10 to 15 years. But what the state of Michigan police are hoping that someday he's finally going to wake up and realize where he is, where he's been living for the last seven, eight years.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

In prison. And he's going to realize that he has nobody, he has nothing else and he has nothing left to. To do but to tell the truth. That is their hope. That is their hope.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you know what I wonder about too? Regarding.

[Chris D'Elia]

I think that's all of our hopes.

[Nick]

Yes. And I wonder regarding his prison sentence. I've heard, you know, it's always reported 10 to 15 years. I have read some speculation that their awfully darn certain that he's going to serve the full 15 years. But if we are in fact talking about murder, if we are in fact talking about the worst possible thing we can come up with regarding this case, it's a triple homicide of children. And that's a really light sentence. And it's nobody's fault. It's nobody's fault for that light sentence. There's nothing really they can do unless there's evidence. But what's interesting to me is can they, I would love for once in a while we get lawyers, prosecutors, judges, people that know the system better than we do. Reach out to us. Yeah, I would love to. And if you go on the blog, you don't have to leave your real name. Please do not leave Joanne Taylor, you.

[Chris D'Elia]

Will be banned unless you are Joanne Taylor. But so how are we going to know?

[Nick]

Well, the thing is, I would love to know if, because of the charges, because of what he was sentenced to or sent to prison for, can they charge him with something? And I know there's no statute of limitations for murder, so obviously, if there's proof, if they find additional evidence that the kids were killed and they believe he did it, of course they can charge him with murder. But say they never find anything, is there something else they can charge him with at a later time, at the end, once that 10 or 15 years expires, can you charge him with kidnapping? Can you charge. You know, because he's charged right now with unlawful imprisonment, I believe is the exact term.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I'm curious there.

[Chris D'Elia]

Can you go to jail for being a douchebag? Is that possible?

[Nick]

No. But there are prisons full of douchebags.

[Chris D'Elia]

Oh, yeah. Weird conundrum.

[Nick]

So that would be interesting to know if there's something left in the. In the old knapsack, if there's something left that they can charge him with once that 10, 15 years expires. Because again, that's what law enforcement is hoping for, that he's going to wake up one day, realize he has nothing, nobody else, nothing left but the truth, and he's going to feel compelled to finally deliver that to everyone. The other thing, too, with him publicly stating, and I say publicly is just an interview, but with John saying, hey, I gave them away to this underground foster care organization, maybe I was duped. Is that him already setting up a defense for if he did, in fact kill them, hide the remains, and they were to be found, now he can go.

[Chris D'Elia]

That wasn't me.

[Nick]

I didn't. I wasn't the one to see them last. I left them in the care of these people that I've been telling you about for the last nine years.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, so, I mean, a real.

[Chris D'Elia]

Piece of shit either way, I mean, it's like, look, even if you're to believe him and there was abuse happening and that you wanted to protect your children, there's other ways about doing that. And you could have went to a judge, you could have went to whoever, and it's just, you know, but. And you can't tell me that, oh, well, he tried to give them to somebody else because he was going to commit suicide, so he wanted to make sure that they were protected. It's like, no, none of this really lines up. None of this makes a lot of sense. And chances are if he was going to kill himself, if he was suicidal, he's probably also homicidal. And it was almost like, oh, well, if you're not going to be with me, then you're not going to get my children either. But for some reason he's not man enough to state what he did and he's not man enough to have closure for everybody else and to accept the punishment for the crime he committed.

[Nick]

The next thing on my list for possible theories, and this is a very obvious one, one that we've all been hoping against since we first started covering this story. But it's so obvious, it's what everybody is thinking. Did, are the boys no longer with us? Did John do something with the remains that he knows where in fact they are? He knows exactly what he did with them. And he's just refusing to, to be cooperative because it punishes his ex wife and because it punishes the system because he thinks he's smarter than everybody else. I mean there's, there's a, a myriad of reasons why he's holding on to the truth, not just the fact of facing more jail time.

[Chris D'Elia]

Well, what we do have is the cell phone pings and yes, we do have, you know, as John has a blackout period, we have a blackout period as far as where John's whereabouts are. But we can at least start breaking down how, how much area would have to search right within that time frame because we do know that he went back to his house. So I think if we focus more on that and we really started focusing and they, they've claimed that they've, you know, every barn that they could find that they, that they, they searched through and all this stuff. And yes, it's been seven years, but it's like, I think they could do that. That's your key if you could double down on those searches in that area. I think that's the key to getting answers to this case.

[Nick]

Well, and that's what today's author of this week's recommended reading suggests in his book is that look at the area that we know his phone to have been for that 76 minutes is what Lynn calls it. And Lynn has actually been heavily involved in the search efforts and also involved in trying to really narrow that down to a specific location. And he's saying, you know, I'm going to keep working on this. I'm hoping that I can narrow it down to about, I think he said 200 acres, which is still a lot.

[Chris D'Elia]

Of lands on that bad?

[Nick]

It's not that bad considering I Mean, you've done the Google map flyover of this area of Holiday City. It's. They need to take the word city out of Holiday City. It's not a city. It's a tiny little, tiny little thing that you just pass through and you don't even know that you pass through it.

[Chris D'Elia]

It's. No, no need to talk about Holiday City.

[Nick]

No, I mean, I mean, they're not there to blame anything. But what I'm trying to, to point out to everybody listening is that this small little, if it is even a one, you know, two traffic light town, it's surrounded by a lot of open area.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

A lot of rural area. And so Lynn Thompson is into, to give credit where credit's due to the people that volunteer to search for these boys. Be it in Michigan, be it in Ohio. Yeah, the search ever, according to Lynn was not fake. It wasn't just something that sounded good for the papers. It was real. It was the real deal. And it was massive. It was massive. And they looked hard and long for these, these three boys. The fourth thing that I have on my list is kind of the most kind of out of the box one of, of all the possible theories, I think. But we kind of touched upon this a little bit earlier. What if John had a complete break with reality?

[The Captain]

Right?

[Nick]

What if, what if he handed off the kids to somebody? What if he did something terrible and they're no longer with us? But he doesn't know. Yeah, he doesn't know because he, he had a straight up break with reality. Is that the, is that the, the black hole, the big empty space that he referenced and that he offers up these tales or he's sticking somewhat to his original story that he told his ex wife in the beginning, that he told investigators in the beginning and he truly just doesn't know what happened?

[Chris D'Elia]

If he truly doesn't know, then maybe bring in like a, some hypnotherapy or something like that, like at least offer that up as an option to try to figure out what happened.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Chris D'Elia]

But I think if you're not doing things like that, then really you're, you're hindering the investigation, you're hindering the possibility of finding out what happened.

[Nick]

So the thing here is, and this is why I question this too, because of what he told his pastor, Donna Galloway, it seems like that could be a possibility. If there's anyone that you're finally going to be honest with, it would be her for John, right?

[Chris D'Elia]

Maybe.

[Nick]

But the, but the problem here is I feel like that's not what John's parents are saying. I almost feel like. I mean, if I were sitting in prison for any number of, you know, any reason at all, and I have my parents coming to me, I have my pastor coming to me, I have people coming to me and going, nick, what happened? What the hell happened? If I didn't know, I'd straight up tell. At least those people, tell my parents. You know, I don't know.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

I might deserve to be here, but I don't know what happened. And what we have his parents saying on record saying is that they believe part of their son's story, at least part of it, that there could have been some abuse, that they. That the boys are alive and that John gave them to somebody.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I. That makes me question this. If he. If he does not know. I almost feel like by this time, with the amount of time that has passed, that we would probably have that or some form of that statement from him.

[Chris D'Elia]

Yeah. It seems like the more you dive into this, the more questions that come out. And one of my initial questions that we never really discuss is, are we for sure that these three boys are his? You know, that's the claim from the mother and then obviously the father. But, I mean, I just get a sense when I look at these three boys that these three boys are half siblings. That's the sense I get. And has anybody looked into that angle?

[Nick]

Well, it's an interesting thought to ponder when I look at the pictures of the three boys, and there's plenty of them available, plenty of these pictures available on the Internet, so anybody can look them up. And I'm sure we'll put a couple on our website as well, in hopes that somebody might recognize them, be able to provide some kind of information. The two of the boys look very much like John to me. This is just my own opinion. And one of the boys looks very much like. Like their mother. Like Tanya. Yeah, I. Again, I think it's. It is an interesting question to ponder. I don't know what that really means for the state of our case, because where my thoughts lie. And look, man, the. The whole time I was researching this case, the whole time I was looking into this, and I'm sure you felt the same way as I did. I wanted. I wanted to. I actually started off hopeful. I started off hopeful, and for the first day or so, I was sitting there going, you know what? It's probably an unpopular side to be on. It's definitely against my better judgment. But for about 24 hours, the first 24 hours of looking into this thing, I'm like, I feel, I think they're alive. My brain tells me that that's probably not the case. But my gut, my heart was telling me these boys are alive, that he did hand them off to somebody.

[Chris D'Elia]

I'm not. I try not to do that anymore. I tried. When we go into these cases, I'm blank slate and whatever I read and whatever rabbit holes it takes me down, I try not to ponder too far into it. I like for it just to tell me what I'm supposed to know, whatever that may be, if that makes any sense.

[Nick]

Makes a lot of sense. The thing that I can't get over, and this is why I'm not as hopeful as when I started off, is giving them away does not make a lot of sense. And what I mean by that is I understand his side of his story is, look, they were being abused. I did this in their best interest. I get that. John. The problem is you're so out of control with what then happens or could happen to them once you hand them off.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

It just doesn't, it just doesn't ring true to me. It, it's, it seems like, it seems like almost you would rather there, there are things you could have done before going to these great lengths. There are people you could have spoke to and maybe he's totally off the rails, I don't know. And maybe this is all he could come up with. That doesn't seem right to me though. There could, there was people you could have talked to and at the very least, if you run out of ideas, you go, you know what, I'm keeping the kids and I, if you send anybody to take them from me, I'm going to tell them what's going on and I'm going to let, I'm going to let the law, I'm going to let the law look into it.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And I'm going to let them figure it out.

[Chris D'Elia]

Because those are serious accusations.

[Nick]

Yes. Yeah.

[Chris D'Elia]

And let's be clear. I do think there is a leap that you have to make from having a relationship with a 14 year old boy which, let's not get that twisted, that's child molestation. But then to bless your own child, I think there would have to be a leap that you'd have to make on some level.

[Nick]

Yeah. And the only one that seems to be claiming that there was any kind of abuse is John. And you do have some people siding with him after the fact, after this all goes down.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

But there doesn't seem to be any anybody else alleging that other than him. And I do want to point out, we should point out Tanya who, I mean, the nightmare that she's had to face of this guy that she marries.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

I don't even feel great calling him their father. You know, he, no matter what the outcome, at the end of the day, he's responsible for why she doesn't have her children. And the thing here is she has two older daughters and they are very close with their mother, with Tanya. And I think that that's probably the only thing that's kept her whole, kept her together at this point. I can't imagine going through what she has had to go through.

[Chris D'Elia]

And I think law enforcement stated that they're not as hopeful as they once were, but they are very confident that they're going to have answers to this case very soon.

[Nick]

Well, and to remind everyone, we do have three missing boys. They are still missing to this day. When they went missing, Andrew was age 9, Alexander age 7 and Tanner age 5. They're still missing. The family is seeking help in searching for them. They are encouraging people to be aware of children and to watch for these three boys. The police would like to remind everyone that it is a good possibility that the boys may not be together, so be looking for individual faces as well. All three boys are Caucasian. The two older boys, Andrew and Alexander, both have brown hair, brown eyes. The little boy, Tanner, has blonde hair and blue eyes. I do want to point out in some of the pictures of Alexander, the middle child, he is wearing glasses, so he may require them. There is a large reward for good information in this case and police need your help and they need tips. If you have any information at all, please contact Morenci Police at 517-458-7104 or call 1-800-THE-LOST.

[Chris D'Elia]

Do we happen to have any recommended reading for this week?

[Nick]

Actually, we do. And it actually came out just a few weeks ago. It's a really good book. It's the only book that I could find on this particular case, on the Skelton brothers case. It's called 76 minutes. My search for Andrew Alexander and Tanner Skelton by author and new friend of the show, Lynn Thompson. Check that out. You don't have to write down that title right now. You can go to truecrimegarage.com click on the recommended page and we have lots of books including 76 Minutes by Lynn Thompson listed right there for you to check out.

[Chris D'Elia]

Make sure you check out our weekly bonus show off the Record. That's on Stitcher Premium. $5 a month. That gets you our show, plus every show on Stitcher Premium. So it's a great deal. It's like the Netflix for podcasting. And make sure you check out our old episodes on the Stitcher app. You just download it and they are for free.

[Nick]

That's right. Well, thanks, everybody, for joining us here in the garage today and this week. We will see you again next week. Until then, please be good, be kind, and don't litter.