Who Killed Jill Dando /// Part 2 /// 752

Summary

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True Crime Garage: Who Killed Jill Dando /// Part 2 /// Episode 752

Date: April 17, 2024
Hosts: Nic & The Captain

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Episode Overview

This episode is the second installment in True Crime Garage’s deep dive into the unsolved 1999 murder of beloved British TV presenter Jill Dando. Nic and the Captain review the major suspects, examine theories ranging from jilted lovers to international conspiracies, break down the failed prosecution of Barry George, and grapple with lingering mysteries that continue to haunt the investigation. Delivered in TCG's trademark blend of detailed research and irreverent banter, the conversation explores the difficulties police faced, the evidence (and lack thereof), and why this case remains one of the UK’s most chilling and enigmatic murders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Suspects: Personal and Professional Circles

• Inspector Campbell’s Initial Theory:
  Belief that the murderer lay within Jill’s personal life, specifically someone from her dating history or inner circle, given the calculated nature of the attack.
  Quote: “He believed that the killer would be found within Jill's personal life.” (03:19)

• Rundown of Key Men from Jill’s Life:

  • Simon Basil: South African game warden, 6'7", familiar with guns, ruled out due to lack of motive and not matching physical description. (06:04)
  • Alan Farthing: Fiancé, alibi confirmed, ruled out as he was with Jill the morning of her murder. (06:59)
  • Russian Crime Lord: Rumored to have been spurned, met Jill in Cyprus during a TV shoot; ruled out due to likely absence from UK at the time. (07:23)
  • Bob Wheaton: Ex-boyfriend and mentor, had received £30,000 from Jill during relationship, ruled out after extensive investigation—no substantial motive. (08:33)
  • John Roseman: Agent, communicated with Jill day of the murder, had written a coincidentally themed book, but “ultimately ruled out.” (12:29)

  Quote: “All of the men that we just discussed here, Captain, they were all eliminated … by August of 1999.” (13:14)

2. The Stalker/Obsessive Fan Theory

• Evidence of Stalking:
  Jill told police and colleagues she received disturbing letters and calls from obsessive fans, which, while unsettling, were not uncommon for TV personalities. (13:40) Quote: “Last year there were reports that Mrs. Dando had been stalked by a fan who had subjected her to frightening phone calls and letters.” (14:02)

• Police looked into “between 40 and 50” fans who obsessively contacted Jill.

• Debate: Whether a stalker would abduct (not shoot) a target, as in other cases (e.g., Jody Huisentruit). (16:04–16:58)

3. Mr. James and the Drug Gang Red Herring (17:11)

• A tipster (“Mr. James”) tried to frame criminals he had beef with, pointing police toward an unrelated drug operation—“none of it had anything to do with Jill.” (18:52)

4. The Problem of Dubious Leads and Massive Investigation Scope

• Police chase countless unrelated leads (blue Range Rover, “sweaty man,” “smartly dressed man”) and eventually track down a gas worker mistaken for a suspect. (19:01–21:22)
• Frustration: Investigators felt hampered by an overabundance of tips, some helpful, most not. (20:55–21:46)

5. The Profile: Looking for an “Obsessive Loner”

• Dr. Adrian West consults: Recommends searching for a socially isolated suspect. Soon, police zero in on “Barry George.” (21:46–22:10)

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The Case Against Barry George

1. Background & Discovery (22:10–27:49)

• Barry George (alias “Barry Balsera,” among others):

  • Lived 500 yards from Jill Dando.
  • Prior convictions for attempted rape, indecent assault, impersonating a police officer.
  • Notorious “fantasist”—fabricated identities, once planned to “abduct” Princess Diana.
  • Obsessed with women; history of stalking and harassing.

• Quote (on his bizarre behaviors):
  “He posed as a stuntman named Steve Majors and filmed an attempt at roller skate jumping four buses … he does not clear the buses and he broke multiple bones in his body.” (25:29)

2. Evidence from the Search (33:44–36:49)

• Horrifically squalid home, consistent with hoarding and mental illness.

• Items found:

  • Overcoat matching eyewitness descriptions.
  • A gun holster (no gun found).
  • Four memorial magazines featuring Jill Dando (despite claiming he didn’t know her).
  • 2,248 undeveloped street photos of women, including a neighbor of Jill.
  • Photo of a man (possibly Barry) with a handgun and gas mask.

  Quote: “He owns four copies of a magazine that she is on the COVID of.” (35:43)

• Lab found one particle of gunshot residue (GSR) in overcoat pocket. (38:48)

3. Timeline and Behavior

• Movements on Day of Murder:

  • Was seen around the neighborhood; arrived at local offices shortly after the shooting to create an alibi (39:32–43:39)
  • 400+ women later report being stalked or accosted by Barry.

• Prior firearms experience (Territorial Army).

4. Arrest, Trial, and Conviction (44:22–46:35)

• Trial strategy: Prosecution painted George as mentally unstable but capable; defense argued he was incapable of “the perfect crime” (citing his disorganized, delusional life).
  • “My client is not capable of meticulous planning. Take a look at his apartment …” (44:23)
• Outcome:
  • Convicted 10-1, sentenced to life in prison.

5. Appeal and Release (46:35–51:38)

• GSR evidence casts doubt: Only one microscopic particle found a year after murder; FBI later said GSR “was not extremely reliable.” (46:35)
• 2008 retrial: Key GSR evidence excluded; with less evidence, jury acquits—Barry George is released after 7 years, but denied compensation. (49:33–51:38)
  • “They’re saying he’s acquitted because there’s not enough evidence … not that he’s absolutely innocent.” (51:33)

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Remaining Theories & Lingering Questions

1. International/Political Conspiracies

• Serbian Warlord Theory:
  • Jill appeared on a Kosovo crisis appeal, which angered some Serbian nationals.
  • Anonymous threats made to the BBC claimed the killing was “payback.”
  • Serbian warlord Arkan named as possible orchestrator.
  • Ultimately, police found “no evidence for any of it”—thought the call was a hoax. (54:37–56:19)
  • “If they wanted to get revenge … they could have just killed this guy [BBC’s John Simpson],” notes Nic.

2. Organized Crime Retaliation

• Crimewatch Host Theory:
  • Jill’s role exposing criminals might have made her a target.
  • Police thoroughly reviewed prior episodes and possible revenge motives, but found “nothing that jumped off the page.” (56:19–58:51)
  • “She’s not an investigative journalist… She’s simply reading off of a teleprompter.” (58:24)

3. Obsessive/Unknown Fan

• Still considered the most likely by hosts and many investigators.
  • “I would put [Barry George] in this category… there’s just not enough evidence.” (59:11)

4. Other Far-Out and Unsubstantiated Theories

- **IRA involvement** (never claimed responsibility—unlikely)
- **BBC Sex Abuse Ring Cover-up** (no evidence Jill was investigating or aware)
- **Professional Jealousy** (who benefited from Jill’s departure, such as fiancée or rivals?)

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Hosts’ Reflections and Unanswered Questions

The Barry George Puzzle

• While George exhibited many red-flag behaviors and circumstantial connections, the hosts repeatedly acknowledge the “head-scratcher” nature of the case:
  • “I kind of sit back and go, this is a little more of a head-scratcher than a 10 to 1 conviction vote.” (45:39)
• Nic: “I can't look past the gsr.”
• Both express that Barry George remains a highly suspicious character—even if acquitted.

Detective’s Regrets & Final Questions

• Detective Hamish (lead investigator):
  • Feared that crucial information was missed in the overwhelming first wave of tips.
  • “Who was the man who had been seen running away? Who was driving the blue Range Rover, and who was the sweating man?” (68:54)

Alternative Motives

• Hosts suggest investigating Jill’s finances, professional rivals, and how her absence might have benefited others—“Follow the money.” (69:12)
• Speculate on jealousy in the competitive media world as a possible (if undetectable) motive.

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Notable Quotes

• Nic (on the flawed conviction):
  “At trials, especially homicide trials, you do not want to hear words like could have when you have people on the stand.” (43:39)
• Captain (on the human need to blame):
  “Sometimes when there's such a heinous crime, the public just wants somebody to pay for it. We need an answer here.” (46:13)
• Nic (on police frustrations):
  “We are being hampered by people coming forward with information that's not important to the case... we've thrown out a lot of information... the Range Rover, the sweaty man, the gas man.” (20:55)

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Timestamps to Major Segments

• 03:19: First review of suspects in Jill Dando’s personal/professional life.
• 13:40: Discussion of stalker/obsessed fan theory; BBC quote and Netflix documentary details.
• 17:11: The “Mr. James” fiasco and police chasing false leads.
• 22:10: Discovery of Barry George as a suspect and his disturbing background.
• 33:44: Search of George’s apartment and evidence found.
• 39:32: Barry George’s timeline on the day of the murder.
• 44:23: First trial, defense strategy, and conviction.
• 46:35: Appeal, GSR reliability issues, and 2008 acquittal.
• 54:37: Serbian warlord retaliation theory.
• 56:25: Crimewatch retaliation theory.
• 59:11: Discussion of the “obsessed fan” as the most likely scenario.
• 68:54: Lead detective’s regrets and unanswered questions.

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Memorable Moments

• Nic’s visceral reaction to Barry George’s hoarding and filth:
  “It almost made me sick. I had to get up from the couch and go straight and look at something else for a few minutes.” (34:16)
• Captain’s dry humor:
  “One man's trash is another man's trash.” (01:51)
• The hosts' candid admission of “armchair detective” status and appreciation of doing this work from a distance rather than “hand sifting through debris” or hoarding filth. (33:44–34:31)

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Episode Tone

• A blend of serious investigative analysis and the hosts’ usual garage banter, humor, and vivid storytelling. There is a consistent respect for the victim and her family, but also frankness about the case’s frustrating lack of resolution.

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Conclusion

Nic and the Captain ultimately concede there is still no definitive answer to who killed Jill Dando—despite a years-long investigation, a controversial conviction and acquittal, and no shortage of theories. The case is a sobering study in the limits of circumstantial evidence and the heartbreak of unsolved crime. As Nic puts it:
"Hopefully one day we will know the answer to the question, who killed Jill Dando?" (70:05)

For further interest, they recommend the Netflix documentary “Who Killed Jill Dando?” (70:36)

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Transcript

[Nick]

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[The Captain]

Foreign.

[Nick]

Welcome to True Crime Garage, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me, as always, is a man who hates yard sales. Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain.

[The Captain]

One man's trash is another man's trash. It's good to be seen. Good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[Nick]

Today we are still enjoying tiny European cars, micro IPA from Twice Brewed. I love this beer, but because of the low ABV of just 2.4%, I didn't think that this would be a beer for me. But this beer is fantastic. It's got a great lightly hazy flavor and you definitely get the IPA taste here. I like this one for working out in the yard or tooling around in the old garage. And four kinds of hops, which is great. Citra, Mosaic, Simcoe and Amarillo Garage Grade four out of five bottle caps. And here's a couple of folks that like to tool around in the garage with beer in hand. First up, a big Texas cheers to Lauren in Kingwood, Texas. And last but certainly not least, here's a big Ron Swanson please and thank you. That goes out to Samantha C. From parts unknown, the Bermuda Triangle division. Everyone we mentioned, they went to our website and helped us out with this week's beer fund. And for that, we thank you.

[The Captain]

Yeah, BWR you and beer run. If you're not following us on YouTube, subscribe today. Give a nice like and subscribe, my friend. And that's enough of the business.

[Nick]

All right, everybody gather round, grab a chair, grab a beer. Lets talk some true crime. The investigation, of course, is going to lead us to some suspects. They had some good leads early on. We've argued already how great those leads were. But what we do get is some suspects. So let's take a look here, Captain, at a couple of suspects in this case. We have Inspector Campbell, who initially said that he believed that the killer would be found within Jill's personal life. Jill, as we know, was an attractive woman with a very successful job and career, but she also had a significant dating history. It was considered more likely that this would be the connection rather than her work or something else in particular because the suspect seemed to have staked out her house waiting for her and then had shoved her to the ground and shot her at very close range. So they're working believing that it's possible that this was someone who knew not only where she lived, but but somebody that had feelings for her or was very angry with her at the time of the murder.

[The Captain]

You could make the argument if she was possibly seeing somebody else and then she gets engaged and they thought the relationship was going in one way and it went another way. But my head jumps to the idea that she's a public figure and how many people watch her on tv in is there some guy out there that got fixated on her? And do we have any claims of her saying, hey, there's a weird guy following me around, or do we have any evidence of a stalker?

[Nick]

Well, there was certainly talk of that and they definitely looked at that. But let's start at the center of Jill's life and kind of fan out from there. Okay, so we do know some of the men that Jill had a history with. One was a man by the name of Simon Basil. He was a game warden from South Africa. She had approximately an eight month relationship with him. He is 6 foot 7 inches tall. So right away doesn't exactly fit the description of the smartly dressed man. As far as height goes. Remember that was five, nine to approximately six foot.

[The Captain]

Yeah, I mean that's a tall glass of water.

[Nick]

That's a big difference in size there. So 6 foot 7 inches tall. This Simon Basil, he had moved to the UK to be with Jill before the relationship fizzled out. And we do know based off of his job, his occupation, that he was very familiar with guns. Now we do also know that police interviewed him extensively and decided that they didn't think it was that bitter of a breakup, or at least he wasn't bitter about the breakup, and they had ruled him out. And I'm sure, I'm guessing here, Captain, that there were more reasons than just that to rule this man out.

[The Captain]

Yeah, there's. We don't know for certain, but he could have had a pretty solid alibi. Again, doesn't match the description.

[Nick]

He's from South Africa. Could have been in South Africa at the time.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

On that date. We also have her fiance, Alan Farthing, who we talked about a little bit on episode one. The two met on a blind date and announced their engagement at a very fancy party, which was actually covered by at least one magazine. Police checked his schedule. Remember, she woke up at Allen's house that morning. Police checked his schedule on the day of the murder, and based on his whereabouts and schedule, they ruled Allen out as well. There was a Russian crime lord who was rumored to have had Jill killed after she spurned him. Apparently these two had met while she was filming an episode of Holiday, the TV show Holiday. They met in Cyprus. It's unclear how he was ruled out, but if he's a Russian crime lord, I'm guessing he specifically was probably ruled out because he likely wasn't even in the UK at the time of the murder. Somebody like that, though, a character like that, Captain, I have a hard time ever 100% ruling them out because if he's the boss, he could have sent somebody else to do his dirty work.

[The Captain]

Yeah, that's probably more likely than maybe these other individuals sending somebody. But all these individuals that we've talked about so far, they make money.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[The Captain]

So it's not out of the realm of possibility that they hired somebody.

[Nick]

Yep. And I think that's something you're going to be faced with here. Based off of the success of Jill Dando. Those are the circles that she's running in. We also have the boyfriend, ex boyfriend, I should say, Bob wheaton. He is 14 years her senior. Bob had sort of been Jill's mentor when she started out in the business. He said that she was a total natural in front of the camera. That's why the viewers were going to love her early in her career. He believed that she needed a makeover to be a TV personality. She needed more sophisticated clothing and hair and she needed to drop a couple of pounds. So Bob helps her with all of this. He's her mentor at the time.

[The Captain]

And.

[Nick]

And then this starts and sparks a relationship between the two. They eventually became a live in couple. They were together for a long time, seven years before splitting up in 1996. But some people at their work, said that Bob was controlling of Jill, or at least that was their opinion. And Allen, her fiance, told the police that. Something that seemed to interest the police that Jill had given Bob £30,000. So money for those listening here, that might be confused. £30,000, that's a lot of dough. He told the investigators it was to help with a down payment on his house while the two were actually still together. That he didn't kill Jill over money. We know that Bob was looked at extensively but ultimately ruled out in the end.

[The Captain]

So I'm guessing that they purchase a property together, she gives some of the money for the down payment. At some point when they split up, was there an agreement that he's going to pay her back?

[Nick]

That's what I wanted to know. Was this an outstanding loan? Was he in the process of paying her back? What I do know about Bob Wheaton, I don't know how he spends his money or was spending his money at the time.

[The Captain]

Mm.

[Nick]

But he was very successful too. So if he's responsible, he's not hard up for cash. This may just be a simple transaction of all. We're living together, it's going to be our place, we're both going to spend money. It might. To call it a loan might be a bit of an exaggeration.

[The Captain]

Yeah, I think that gets confusing too because it's like, okay, so he killed her so you wouldn't have to pay her back. But we have no indication that she was going to file a lawsuit or anything against him. So there's no pending, there's no like repercussion if he doesn't pay it back right away. Doesn't seem like a solid motive.

[Nick]

Well, and the other thing too is they had split a decent amount of time before Jill was killed.

[The Captain]

Yeah, but some people hold grudges for. For life.

[Nick]

Then there was Jill's agent. This is John Roseman. Police noted that Jill's phone reflected some calls between the two of them. The morning that Jill was killed, he told police, John Roseman told police that he had sent some work related faxes to her home fax machine and she told him she would grab them on her way to lunch. That meant that John. This puts him in a different category. When we talk about suspects, this is a clear indicator that he would know, based off of what he told police, that Jill told him that Jill would be heading to her home. On that morning, Police were interested in a book John had written about an agent. So he writes this book. It's a. It's a Fictional book. And in the book, the agent who he's writing about their. Their client is murdered in a shooting. So this is going to sound oddly familiar to police when they're reviewing this guy, but John points out to them that, look, I'm her agent. She's very successful. She's got two TV shows who. She's the main star of these two shows. She's the presenter in both of them. He's pointing out to police, if I kill her or have somebody else do it for me, I'm cutting off a major source of income for myself. We do know that ultimately he was ruled out. So I'm guessing here, I want to be clear to the listeners, I'm guessing that maybe he was able to provide an alibi as well. So all of the men that we just discussed here, Captain, they were all eliminated as far as what the public is concerned, based off of the police, their statements in their investigation. This is by August of 1999, the same year that she was killed.

[The Captain]

Do we know if they're giving any of these individuals polygraph tests?

[Nick]

I don't know the specifics on each one of these persons.

[The Captain]

There might not be, you know, law enforcement might not be forthcoming with that information.

[Nick]

You had mentioned a stalker, and I think that that is probably on everyone's brains. That is where certainly my thoughts went when first looking into this case. So to talk about stalker or potential stalker, this is from the BBC, Quote, the presenter, meaning Jill, told police earlier this year, so 1999, at a reception to mark the 10th anniversary of Crime Watch UK, that she was concerned about her safety, saying that last year there were reports that Mrs. Dando had been stalked by a fan who had subjected her to frightening phone calls and letters. Now, the documentary, the Netflix documentary reports that Jill had dealt with obsessive fans and, quote, pervert male in the past. The letters were upsetting, of course, but she, Jill being the professional that she was, she recognized that it kind of, kind of went with the territory, unfortunately. And we do know from reviewing other cases, this seems to be a bit of a chronic problem faced by female TV personalities and news personalities, men who become obsessed with these ladies and some of them even creating fantasy relationships with news anchors in their heads. The UK tabloids loved this stalker slash deranged fan theory because it was sensational and sexy and it sold newspapers. Police reportedly were looking into between 40 and 50. That's 40 and 50 fans who obsessively sent Jill mail. But if Jill had a stalker, one wonders why the guy would shoot her. I mean, that brings up a whole other set of questions and thoughts when you are looking at this case, right? Because remember Jody Husentrup, the news anchor from Iowa tv? We believe she was abducted. That everything appoints to everything points to her being abducted in her case. And police and the rest of us seem to all think that it was either an obsessed lover or somebody that she knew within her social circle that wanted to have some kind of relationship with her, or it was a stalker or slash obsessed fan of Jody who's in truth. So you can look at this and say, well, would it be more likely that a stalker would abduct Jill Dando rather than to kill her on the stoop in front of her townhouse? Or do we have a situation where Jill announces, remember it was very public, a magazine covered the engagement party, the fancy party. Do we get this stalker who finally is pushed over the edge finding out that the love of his life, Jill Dando, was marrying another man.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And goes from stalker obsessive fan mode into a homicidal maniac driven by jealousy and rage.

[The Captain]

And we've seen this with when somebody has mental illness that they create these scenarios and they create these fictitious relationships with people that they've never even met.

[Nick]

There's another suspect theory. Let's call this one, Mr. James.

[The Captain]

Okay.

[Nick]

Okay. So police go down this rabbit hole with what is sometimes referred to as the Mr. James fiasco. This is all laid out in the documentary, but to put it in its simplest form, on May 18th they did an appeal for tips on crime watch. Remember, she's killed in April. So the following month they do an appeal for tips on crime watch and they the show is now hosted by Jill's presenting partner and co host. His name is Nick. They released the information that they were looking for the blue Range Rover seen in the area the day of the murder. This of course resulted in zillions of tips. But one caller, Mr. James, named Active criminals in a major drug trafficking operation. He said that they were responsible for what happened to Jill. This seemed as plausible an explanation as any given that gun violence was very unusual in the UK and when it did occur, it was often in connection with drug gang violence. Police went all in on this, digging into the drug ring, using undercover officers and so on. But it turns out, Captain, this was a bust. Mr. James was lying, framing some drug dealers he was involved with to get them off of his back. None of it had anything to do with Jill and that's what they're investigation determined.

[The Captain]

And if you remember, we. We did talk about eyewitness that claims he saw somebody staking out Jill's house.

[Nick]

Yeah. And it took several months, but police finally found this man, the one that was supposedly staking out Jill's house. It took till September of 99. He was a man that was loitering on Jill's block simply because he was there for his job. He. He's a gas man.

[The Captain]

Old gas band.

[Nick]

Well, no, the thing here is this is when police are kind of like throwing their hands up in the air and they're. They're showing to the public their frustration with the case and their frustration with the scale of the investigation. We talked about on episode one, how large this and how quickly this investigation grew into a worldwide investigation. And police are telling the public, now, look, we are being hampered by people that are coming forward with, too. With information that's not important to the case. But then the. The flip of that is they are telling the public, look, we've thrown out a lot of information that we've collected, and in our investigation, the blue Range Rover, the sweaty man, the smartly dressed man, the blue Range Rover almost getting a parking ticket, the witness saying that they saw somebody staking out Jill Dando's house. And the other thing they're telling the public is when we tell you all of this information, if you are that person that we're describing, that a witness has described, please come forward so we can eliminate you and quit chasing these bad leads. Right. They had to track down this gas man who was there working on the street that day. He didn't come to them. They found him.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

They were openly telling the public about their frustration of and using him as an example. If this individual would have just come forward early when we released the information, we could have stopped working that lead. So as far as the person staking out her home, police are back at square one.

[The Captain]

Yeah. And again, I think the other issue, because she's such a public figure and you feel like she's a part of your life, how, how that amps up public awareness. But those are also individuals that feel connected to her and feel that they need to try to help in any way possible. And like you said, I think that leads to too many leads and that leads to too many people coming forward with information that might not have anything to do with the case. So you're basically constantly chasing your own Tail.

[Nick]

In 1999, forensic criminal psychologist Dr. Adrian west consulted with police on the Jill Dando case. They were told that they should be looking for an obsessive loner. Well, soon police would find one.

[The Captain]

Yeah. And this loner's name is Barry George.

[Nick]

Barry George, using the name Barry Balsera at the time. A man named in a tip is Barry Balsera. This is a tip that's called into police on the Jill Dando tip line number. And they get this tip early on in the investigation. Captain, it's April 27, the day after her murder. The tip referred to Ball Sara as a, quote, mentally unstable man, end quote, who lived in Crookham Road. So this is just about 500 yards from Jill's home. According to the Independent UK, there was a second tip that came in as well, also naming Balsera and then there was a third naming him. It took police ages to follow up on these tips because of the media blitz resulted in thousands of tips that had to be cataloged, assigned and pursued. And any one of them could easily have sunk into the bottom of the pile. It seems like this Bulsera tip, 1, 2, 3 of them fell to the bottom of the pile. They would learn, they being the police, that Balsera was an alias. You said it, Captain. His real name was Barry George and this dude had Quite a record. 41 year old George had an attempted rape conviction in March of 1983 from when he had attacked a female student. He had also been convicted for indecent assault on a female office worker. He had been arrested for impersonating a police officer. Shockingly, in the early 1980s he had been arrested on the grounds of Kensington palace wearing combat gear and carrying a 12 inch hunting knife and a rope. He was obsessed with Princess Diana and appeared as though he was there to abduct her. So he's arrested wearing combat gear, carrying a 12 inch hunting knife and rope and they believe that he was there to abduct Princess Diana. Somehow he just receives a slap on the wrist from authorities for this and it's thought that he was somewhat written off as just being a kook. George was an unemployed loner who just wandered the streets and tried to talk to women. Further, he had a history of being a pathological liar. Police learned that he had told women that he was in the Royal Air Force. He posed as a stuntman named Steve Majors and filmed an attempt at roller skate jumping four buses. So he's telling people he's a stuntman named Steve Majors and he films this whole setup of him going to jump over four buses wearing roller skates.

[The Captain]

And I'm guessing they got onto this guy because we now the public now knows the area in which this happened. And then you go, okay, I'm familiar with this area, by the way. If you're familiar with this area, you're also familiar with this weirdo.

[Nick]

Yes. But as said, it's even a little more far strange than that. So I have to wonder here, Captain, with this attempt of jumping four buses that he filmed, was this the first use of the phrase epic fail? Because he does not clear the buses and he broke multiple bones in his body. So again, at the time that police start looking at him for Jill Dando's case, he's using the name Barry Balsera, which is implying that he's the cousin of Queen's Freddie Mercury. Birth name, last name Ball Sarah.

[The Captain]

Wow.

[Nick]

He also went by the name Paul Gad, which is the real name of pedophile singer Gary Glitter. George was what was termed as a fantasist by psychologists. This is someone who lives in active fantasy life and may or may not act on those fantasies. It seemed like George was in the former category. He was living and acting on these fantasies. And police, what they want to do, of course, they want to try to climb into this weirdo's head and see if his fantasies involved Jill Dando. Yeah.

[The Captain]

You don't want to jump in too deep.

[Nick]

No.

[The Captain]

But at the same time, he could be a harmless weirdo.

[Nick]

That's like Grand Canyon deep.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So police tracked down Barry George at an unemployment office. He denied knowing who Jill Dando was, which seems a little strange, giving her popularity and notoriety as a news presenter. And since he didn't know who she was, of course he's denying having anything to do with anything at all, especially her murder. Police didn't let George go. They began three weeks of. Of surveillance of his activities. They're going to monitor this dude for three weeks of surveillance while they pulled together a search warrant for his home. His home that was right around the corner from homicide victim Jill Dando's house.

[The Captain]

Foreign.

[Nick]

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[The Captain]

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[Nick]

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[The Captain]

All right, we are back talk. Hands in the air. Remember, for bonus content, treat yourself. Sign up on Patreon or through Apple subscription and cheers to you Colonel.

[Nick]

Subscribe your earballs will thank you. And speaking of thank yous, how about a big shout out to Dave from Dak Designs who sent us some lovely winter hats. My favorite of the bunch says save lives. Ban the van. So shout out to Dak Designs.

[The Captain]

Thank you for Heck yeah. Hashtag ban the van.

[Nick]

Thank you for keeping my earballs warm. Now, Captain, we get the search warrant for Barry Weirdo's house and there's no way around.

[The Captain]

Nickname was Berry. Berry Dingleberry.

[Nick]

There's no way around this. This dude was. To say hoarder, I think would be an understatement. Okay, so his house was a mess with trash everywhere. I mean, everywhere. So they showed some photos on the documentary of his house and it almost made. It almost made me sick. I had to get up from the couch and go straight and look at something else for a few minutes.

[The Captain]

I had to go sort through my closets.

[Nick]

There wasn't just trash everywhere, dude. There was piles of feces. And there are bugs alive and dead everywhere. The guy was beyond disgusting.

[The Captain]

Cozy.

[Nick]

So this is one. Except this is just one example of why it is better to be a fake detective like us garage guys rather than a real one. Because if I were sent to the scene, Captain, I think I would have just turned in my badge that day. These detectives had to walk inside of the place, walk around this place, and basically hand sift through debris to look for possible clues. Now, they did find some things of interest on the search. They found a dark men's overcoat similar to the one that the witness described. They found a gun holster. Problem is, they didn't find any gun. We have Barry George, who would claim that he didn't own a Gun? Just the holster. They found four copies of Jill Dando's memorial issue of the BBC's In House magazine. This with Jill on the COVID Okay, remember when they first talked to this guy? He claims he did not know who Jill was. This is clearly a lie. He owns four copies of a magazine that she is on the COVID of.

[The Captain]

Yeah, but he's a hoarder. Look, I'm not saying he's not lying. But also we see this in many cases where people get obsessed with somebody after they're murdered.

[Nick]

They found lots of undeveloped film. When police went and developed the photos, they found 2,248 candid photographs he had taken of random women on the street. One of these women, they confirmed, lived next door to Jill Dando. They also found a photo of a man in a gas mask. The man in the picture wearing the gas mask is holding a handgun that a gun Expert identified as an 8 millimeter Bruni compatible with the casing that was found at the murder scene.

[The Captain]

Do we believe that that individual is Barry?

[Nick]

I would say. I would swear on a stack of Bibles.

[The Captain]

Well, he has one in the corner over there.

[Nick]

Covered in feces.

[The Captain]

Covered in feces.

[Nick]

Barry George says that it was not him in this photo.

[The Captain]

Yeah, I don't believe anything this guy says.

[Nick]

So he's arrested on May 25, 2000 by Inspector Campbell's team. So this is just a little more than a year after the murder. We finally get this, this arrest. News of the arrest swept the nation. People have been waiting for this for over a year. Police made a bit of a spectacle of bringing George in because they really believe that Barry George had in fact killed Jill. He checked all the boxes. Weirdo, loner, obsessive, like guns, creepy with women and a history of violence and criminal activity. He was interrogated at the police station. George denied having any involvement at all. He claimed not to have any idea who Jill was. Again, I believe that the magazines in his apartment tell a different story. He denied that it was him in the gas mask holding the gun in the photograph. He did say at some point when talking with police that he had a replica gun. I don't know exactly what he means by this. Replica gun, toy gun, fake gun. But the police would say that they thought he was acting shifty and weird during the course of the interview. I've seen footage of this guy, and I'm not trying to run to his defense, but he strikes me as an individual that would act shifty and weird in any conversation.

[The Captain]

I agree.

[Nick]

Or sit down Conversation. I mean, that might not be indicative of anything. Right.

[The Captain]

With hoarding tendencies, a lot of that has to do with mental health issues and anxiety. So if somebody is very closed off to the world and closed off to society, the more people that they're around, the more shifty they almost act.

[Nick]

Well, and remember that overcoat that they found in his apartment that was similar in description to the one as stated by the eyewitnesses of the person leaving the scene of the murder? They're going to run some tests on this coat. The lab results come in and a test of the overcoat. They found that there was gunshot residue or gunpowder residue in the pocket of this coat. Okay. And this is coming from a man who says, I don't own a gun. I don't have a gun. I've had a replica gun.

[The Captain]

We talk about this a lot. In cases, timelines become so important because when you have a suspect now, you have to try to place them at the scene and place them at the time of the crime. So law enforcement is going to dig into Barry's timeline of the day of the murders.

[Nick]

Yeah. And what they figure out here, Captain, that on the day of the murder he had kind of shuffled around the neighborhood and according to the independent uk that after the time of the shooting, Barry George was seen. He had ran home and changed his shirt. And then he first went to the Hammersmith and Fulham Action for Disability center at Griswell Street. This is like five minutes, a five minute walk from the murder scene. He's arriving at this location around noon. There he argues with the staff who had known him from previous visits. He's there for approximately 15 minutes. He, he then makes his way to the traffic cars taxi offices on Fulham Palace Road. Again just another short walk away. Arriving just before 1pm he managed to get a free ride to the colon cancer concern on Rickett Street. After his arrest, as many as 400 women came forward saying Barry George had followed them on the street, even accosting some of them and speaking to them with foul language. His former wife reported that she had suffered domestic violence at his hands. And this from the independent uk, quote. He also had some experience with firearms. He spent nearly a year in the Territorial army before being discharged in November of 1982. Being taught how to maintain and shoot assault rifles and machine guns, end quote. He's arrested and he's held over for trial on the murder charge. His trial began in July of 2001. Evidence presented by the prosecution included a witness named Susan Mays who testified that she was Quote, very sure that she had seen George on Jill's street at 7:30 on the morning of the shooting. And she said that the man she saw was hiding his face. There was another witness who said that they saw a man of his description running away from the scene. And that individual testified that it could have been Barry George. At trials, especially homicide trials, you do not want to hear words like could have when you have people on the stand. There were persons who testified that George appeared to have tried to solidify a alibi. Two days after the murder, he returned to the same office. Remember we said he went to the the office and he's openly arguing with the people, the workers there, the staff. And it was thought by these persons who were testifying that he was trying to be seen and heard. Make note that I am here at this time, so close to the shooting. Evidence was presented about the particle. So this is one particle of gunshot residue. This is the gunshot residue that indicated that George was in the presence of a gun when it was fired and that the gun was possibly put in his pocket afterwards. That's the coat that matched the description of the one seen by the witness. To be fair to Barry George, that style of coat is an incredibly common coat style worn by maybe a million British men. We also had the numerous women who came forward testifying about him harassing them on the street, saying that George called them vulgar names, grabbed my arm and so on.

[The Captain]

It's very difficult because you go, is this guy just mentally ill? And so obviously he would be acting suspicious or is this guy a murderer?

[Nick]

It is very difficult. The main defense that they put forward for Barry George was in the papers and everywhere else for the most part, especially when they were calling an assassination or hitman. When you see words like that being thrown around oftentimes. This case was described in the papers as the perfect crime and one that would require meticulous planning.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

The defense was that my client is not capable of carrying out the perfect crime. My client is not capable of meticulous planning. Take a look at his apartment, take a look at his actions, and you will quickly agree with that statement. And I do agree with that statement for the most part. What we do know is that the jury comes back, we get a 10 to 1 vote to convict. So Barry George was sentenced to life in prison.

[The Captain]

This one's a tough one because I think a lot of the evidence that they presented you could brush away pretty quickly. Well, he has these four magazines and she's on the COVID Well, how many items does he have more than one item that he shouldn't have. You know what I mean? Like we jokingly said, he probably has a stack of bibles somewhere. So. And he just happens to live in the area and he is known to follow women, but it's. We have no eyewitnesses placing them at the scene. We have no murder weapon.

[Nick]

We do have someone who says they believe they saw George there. But remember, this person does not know Barry George prior to the day of the murder. Right, right. Just simply saying, oh, that guy that's sitting in the courtroom, I saw somebody that looked a lot like him. And again, the words were, could have been Barry George hiding his face. So this while he to me, looks like a great suspect on the surface. Right. Once reviewing the evidence that's presented at trial, I kind of sit back and go, this is a little more of a head scratcher than a 10 to 1 conviction vote.

[The Captain]

Sometimes when there's such a heinous crime, the public just wants somebody to pay for it. We need an answer here. But again, I don't know if this is enough evidence to convict him. And I agree with you, definitely not enough evidence to be 10 to 1. And I'd also think with the fragile mental state that he's in, couldn't we get some kind of confession here?

[Nick]

Well, and you're exactly right there, Captain. People watch these shows, they fall. Jill Dando was easy to fall in love with. Easy to go to turn on your TV and go, look at that person. She's like me, she's my friend. I watch her every day. And so in a weird way, a lot of people, I'm sure, probably felt as though they had lost somebody very close to them. And it wasn't due to some illness or growing old. It was to being murdered on the street like a dog. And you're right, it's human nature to want that pound of flesh. And so I think that maybe that steered this conviction a little bit. What we do get is upon appeal, they're going to start to challenge this gsr, the physical evidence found in the pocket of that overcoat that was suggestive that he had been in the presence of a gun that was recently fired and then put into the pocket of his overcoat. They reach out to the FBI. The FBI comes back saying, look, we don't know exactly how reliable that evidence is. In fact, we would suggest that it's not extremely reliable. And I think that that was what tipped the scales to convict this guy. So his attorneys are going to use this as grounds to appeal and to suggest that this was a miscarriage of justice. So they go to, in front of the judge, they argue that one particle of gunshot residue in the pocket of the coat found in George's house was ins. Insufficient evidence of his involvement. The police had never specifically tied it to the shooting or the actual murder weapon. Remember, the murder weapon was never found. That's going to complicate everything as well. The coat was examined a year after the murder. So you can't say 100% with 100% certainty that the GSR did not get to where it was found in the year that had gone by after the murder. You just can't. You don't know what gun it came from or when it was placed in that pocket.

[The Captain]

So where do we go from here?

[Nick]

Well, based off of that, they're going to be telling the judge, look, this, this evidence carries zero or neutral evidential weight and the jury should have been instructed as such, or the judge should have tossed out this evidence. It's kind of like saying, again, a large part of that I believe the problem being that the murder weapon was never recovered.

[The Captain]

Right?

[Nick]

This is going to lead to a second trial for Barry George which would start in June of 2008. So remember, by this point, he's been in prison for approximately seven years. At trial number two, the prosecution is not allowed to even mention the GSR evidence, which was a very important part of their case. What plays out at the second trial, Captain, is basically they are presenting the same evidence minus that GSR evidence. And now, after time has gone by, we only have one person on the stand who is saying, I'm 100% sure that I've seen Barry George on Gowen Avenue, right? And that person is saying, I'm 100% sure that I saw Barry George on Goen Avenue on the day of the murder. But it was four hours before the shooting. So the case kind of fell apart very quickly for the prosecution. And then they start to call into play things like Barry George's IQ and other things that they would suggest that he is incapable of carrying out or masterminding this crime that took over a year with this large scale investigation, lots of boots on the ground to lead to an arrest. So the jury acquitted George. He's a free man after spending seven years in prison. Wow. His petition to receive compensation for his time in prison was denied, given that UK laws provide that only when new evidence emerges proving a wrongful conviction. So he's acquitted. But it's not like they're saying, oh, he's acquitted and he's absolutely innocent. They're saying he's acquitted because the evidence. There's not enough evidence to prove that he is guilty.

[The Captain]

Yeah. If they found DNA evidence on her and they were able to test that and prove it wasn't him, then he could get a payday.

[Nick]

Yeah. Nonetheless, the Jill Dando case was reopened shortly afterwards. Police were almost a decade behind in the investigation by this point. The reward was £250,000, the largest on record in the UK. But sadly, the reward money is going to go unclaimed because it seems like whoever killed Jill Dando, either they acted alone, and if they did, they haven't told anybody and no one's the wiser.

[The Captain]

But also, just because Barry was acquitted doesn't mean he's actually innocent.

[Nick]

Exactly. So the theories that we are left with here, Captain, the Serbian warlord theory, this was raised by Barry George's attorney at his trial. This is a little bit complicated, and I'm not going to drag everybody through all of the ins and outs of this, but to simplify it, at the time that Jill was killed, there was a war going on between Kosovo and Serbia. NATO was involved, bombing Serb targets as the Serbs were the aggressors in this situation. This is from the Independent UK. On April 6, 1999, 20 days before Jill was killed, she had fronted a BBC Kosovo crisis appeal that raised more than 1 million pounds in 24 hours for those fleeing the latest round of ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. Okay, so what could this world event mean for our case here, Captain? Well, three days before Jill was killed, British and US warplanes bombed the Radio Television Serbia building in Belgrade, killing 16 of the news organization's employees. Then, the day after Jill's murder, the BBC's news head, Tony hall, received a call at his office. A man with an Eastern European accent said, your Prime Minister Blair butchered innocent young people. We butcher back. This anonymous call would likely have been unremarkable had Jill Dando not just been shot and killed days before. So people were desperately trying to find meaning in her death and also, like you said, assign blame for it. Find someone to blame that pound of flesh. So it made sense that the Serbs were angry about their journalists being killed. So as the theory goes, they killed one of UK's most famous presenters.

[The Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Reportedly, Serbs in the UK were angry at Jill for participating in that appeal. Her agent, John Roseman, said he received a letter to Jill that was vaguely threatening about the Kosovo appeal she had done. An investigator supposedly received a message that said Dando was murdered by a Serb hitman in revenge for the attack that NATO mounted. Georgia's defense attorney took all of this and ran with it. He named the Serbian warlord Arkin as possibly ordering the hit on Jill. He claimed that the crimping done on the shell casing was also typically done in the Balkans and that other journalists had been murdered in Belgrade a couple of weeks earlier. The prosecution dismissed the Serbian warlord defense as unfounded. The lead, Inspector Campbell, stated that they had looked into it and there was no evidence for any of it and said the call his agency received was a hoax. The other part of this too was that there was a BBC veteran foreign correspondent, his name is John Simpson, who was in Belgrade in 1999 and in fact had met Arcan on the day Ms. Dando had been killed. So some people had wondered if they wanted to retaliate, if they wanted to get revenge for their journalists being killed. They could have just killed this guy that had a meeting with the guy that they're saying masterminded, paid for, ordered the hit on Jill.

[The Captain]

And another theory, which I think is a possible theory, is that she was a host of a crime show.

[Nick]

And you know what, Captain, there are a lot of people that will share your opinion because this seems to be a very popular theory that she was either killed because of her role as a host of Crime Watch or there was a hit taken out on her by somebody that wanted to silence her for hosting Crime Watch. And of course, this show is a show that focuses in on ruthless criminals involved in the underworld. And that somebody in that underworld wanted to take Jill out because of her work exposing the criminal element in Britain. Right. Or possibly even as a warning to the authorities to not mess with certain persons in organized crime or organized crime itself. The thing here is this theory resulted in all of the past episodes of the show being reviewed by law enforcement to see if they could find someone that would have a motive based off of these shows. And of course, the show Crime Watch covered the mafia, terrorist bombings and so on. But it seems seemed very unlikely that perpetrators of large scale crimes like featured on Crime Watch would take the time to take out a newswoman who's just doing her job. We need to keep in mind too what her role was. Jill wasn't an investigative journalist that's reaching out to confidential sources and turning up leads. And she's not breaking stories, Right. She's not providing the break in a case to law enforcement. She's simply reading off of a teleprompter, telling the story And I know that that's not always clear to everyone who may see the show. But what we end up with is law enforcement taking a hard look at this theory and they walk away from it kind of saying we don't really see anything here. We're not saying that it's not a possibility. We're just saying that there's nothing that jumped off the page. To us, this theory has never really provided any solid leads for the investigation.

[The Captain]

And like you said, her being the host of Crime Watch is a popular theory, but I think the most popular theory is that it was some kind of. That she was killed by a obsessed fan and we just might not know who that fan was.

[Nick]

Yeah, and we've talked about this one at length already. And I do want to remind everybody too that Barry George himself, who was once convicted of her murder and then later acquitted, I would put him in this category. Right. He would fall in this bucket for me. There's a few far out theories. One that involves the IRA killed Jill, that she was part of an organized IRA hit. But that organization typically publicly takes credit for their actions and they've never officially claimed that they were responsible for Jill's murder. We also looked at this other theory which seems to have come from comments of a former colleague that Jill was about to expose a pedophile sex ring and or pattern of endemic sexual abuse and harassment happening at the BBC. Again, this theory sounds interesting, but the chances that Jill, a journalist whose skills involve documenting facts and documenting her findings, when police looked into this, she had, they found nothing in her possession of her personal items or her professional items that she had documented uncovering any kind of sex ring or pedophile ring. So if she was on the brink of exposing something, a major crime story, where was the information?

[The Captain]

Well, and also when law enforcement was looking into individuals close in her life, like her fiance, why one of the fiance say, hey, well you know, she was working on this, this big story and this was going to change everything.

[Nick]

Thank you. Thank you. You are exactly right that she, she told no one, they could find no one in her circle that she had said that she was working on any of this. I mean other than this former colleague. And they weren't able to provide very good information. So I think like some of this, it feels like they're really grasping. But police, unfortunately in a case like this and so many others, they are forced to chase down every potential lead. They are forced to pursue these all roads here. And it looks to me from the outside looking in that they did Their best job that they could, pursuing all these roads. So here's where I'm sitting now, Captain, in the garage. It's actually directly across from you in a garage.

[The Captain]

It smell nice today, by the way.

[Nick]

I think it's that new soap that you purchased. The thing here is, though, my head is swimming a bit with this story and with this case, because a large part of me wants to go, well, maybe it was just Barry all along,

[The Captain]

and they just weren't able to get enough evidence against him.

[Nick]

Having never met the man and not being a psychologist or anyone with a great understanding of that science, I can't say with any level of certainty. Look, his psychosis could be. Could explain away a lot of this, right? That a lot of his behavior and maybe even some of the evidence that was presented against him at the trial that got a conviction. I understand questioning the reliability of the gsr, but I have a problem with a guy that I can put near the murder scene four hours beforehand, who lives 500 yards away, has a lengthy history of harassing women on the streets, taking pictures of women on the streets, taking a picture of a woman who lives next door to Jill Dando, finding four magazines in his apartment with her on the COVID And he says he doesn't even know who she is. Finding a picture of him in a gas mask with a gun in his hand and a gun holster in his apartment. And he tells me he's never owned a gun, only a replica gun, which it could be a replica gun in that picture, and he's just lying about being in the picture. Why is maybe his psychosis, that's why he's lying about being in the picture. Or maybe he killed a woman and he doesn't want to admit that he's the man wearing the gas mask holding a gun in a picture. The end of the day, yes, that GSR evidence may be unreliable, but what it is reliable. What is reliable about that evidence is at some point, that overcoat that I found in your apartment, it had a gun in it that was recently fired. That. That is fact, man. I don't know when that GSR entered the pocket of that overcoat that I found in your apartment, but it did. And it came from a gun that was fired. And we talked about.

[The Captain]

And a gun that we can't find.

[Nick]

A gun that we can't find. And we talked about how uncommon. How uncommon gun crimes, gun violence is at this year, 1999, in this location. So much so that it went out over the police radios that they were responding to. A stabbing. So I think that Barry George finds himself in a very small suspect pool, in my opinion, when they were looking at thousands and thousands of people, because the investigation and the public reaching out, supplying tips and leads to the police had made it that they had to look at thousands and thousands of people when really you're looking for a small group of people here. So I sit here and I'm not saying I don't feel extremely confident saying that it was Barry George all along, but I find him to be very strange. I find his behavior, his history of violence to be something that I can't look past. The gsr. I can't look past.

[The Captain]

And even though there's not strong evidence, there is evidence where a lot of these other theories are just that they're theories with not much weight to them.

[Nick]

He was pretending to be somebody that he was not having an alias that was implying that he's the cousin of Freddie Mercury. Telling people that using the same name as Gary Glitter, Gary Glitter's real name as an alias for a long time, telling people that he was a stuntman. So he doesn't just develop these fantasies, he's attempting to live them. Who knows what kind of fantasies he had about Jill Dando? Maybe he hated her and despised her because she was the real life thing that he never was. And he saw her from time to time on the streets and the hatred grew and grew and grew. And guess what? I'm always pretending to be somebody famous or on the fringe of being famous, right? And if I can't be somebody famous, how about I kill somebody famous? The only thing about that though is you would think he would take credit for it at some point, especially once they honed in on him.

[The Captain]

I agree.

[Nick]

The. And who knows how far he would have really went with this air quotes attempt to abduct PRINCESS die But it's also.

[The Captain]

Look, it's, it's very possible because of his mental state that he doesn't know for certain if he did it or not.

[Nick]

Yeah, and I, I'm with you. It's. It's. Well, I look at him and my first thought is, well, maybe the answer is just right there. And it's been there all along. And it was Barry George all along. There were some haunting words that were said about this investigation coming from the Chief Inspector, Detective Hamish, who we've talked so much about in these episodes. And he says that the biggest question perplexing investigators, grieving relatives and viewers of Jill Dando TV shows who shot Jill Dando and why? Obviously, but it's been pointed out that it seems to find the killer. There's gaps in the day that she was killed in that timeline that still need to be filled in. And Inspector Hamish says, quote, the reality is many a stranger homicide inquiry, the answer lies within the first trench of information. Though I feared that there was something and we had missed it, that somewhere in the beginning there was a message or information which had been overlooked. To me, that's haunting to hear the detective stating that he's concerned all these years later that there was something in the beginning that before this thing got blown up and blown out of, way out of proportion, that there was something early on that would have told them who the killer was and that they may have missed it. It may have been overlooked. The lead detective later states three questions he could not wrap his head around from the moments after Jill's murder. He says, quote, who was the man who had been seen running away? Who was driving the blue Range Rover, and who was the sweating man? I say this, and this is something that you've brought up. You bring it up more than I do. But I think it's something that.

[The Captain]

It's. Because I'm.

[Nick]

I'm super smart, could play a huge factor in this case. And it's something that doesn't seem to. It's not discussed anywhere. You want to talk about something possibly being overlooked. Where did Jill's money go? She was successful. She didn't have any kids. She didn't have a spouse.

[The Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

You say follow the money. I'm with you on this one. I say follow the money on this one also. Another thing here is if Jill's fiance, Allen, is as successful as Jill, how does his situation change once he's married? And who does that situation change for beyond Alan? Right. Is. Is Jill killed because she's in proximity with somebody else? With Alan? The other thing, too, Captain, I sit here and I wonder, in her professional life, in her professional world, who stood to get ahead to leapfrog if Jill Dando was no longer around?

[The Captain]

Well, she's in a very highly competitive field. I don't even think that matters. You don't have to follow the money on that one. It's just simply there's people out there that are jealous.

[Nick]

Hopefully one day we will know the answer to the question, who killed Jill? Dan,

[The Captain]

Want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week and sharing the cases on social media and telling your mama and papa. Do we have a recommended reading for the beautiful listeners?

[Nick]

It feels so good to be in the garage, Captain. And of course, this week we are going to recommend who Killed Jill Dando? The documentary on Netflix. REVISIT the shocking 1999 murder of beloved TV presenter Jill Dando, which continues to mystify experts and the public. This is a great watch and I like the way that they broke it up into three episodes, each under an hour. So check out who Killed Jill Dando on Netflix. You can find that recommendation and many more on our website, truecrimegarage.com and until next week, be good, be kind and don't litter. Sa.

[The Captain]

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