401: Sweet Bobby: My Catfish Nightmare

Summary

Episode 401: Sweet Bobby: My Catfish Nightmare – Detailed Summary

Introduction to "Sweet Bobby: My Catfish Nightmare"

In this episode of True Crime Obsessed, hosts Julian Pezzoli and Patrick Hines delve into the intricate and disturbing true story of Kari, a 32-year-old woman from West London, who becomes entangled in a decade-long catfishing nightmare orchestrated by her own cousin, Simran. The episode meticulously unpacks the layers of deception, emotional manipulation, and cultural pressures that culminate in a harrowing tale of trust broken and identity manipulated.

Kari's Background and Cultural Pressures

Kari, described as a "Punjabi Sikh woman," is portrayed as a driven and motivated individual deeply ingrained in her tight-knit community. Growing up in West London with parents born in Kenya, Kari faces immense cultural pressure to marry and start a family. As her peers begin settling down, Kari grapples with the societal expectations that deem her unmarried state as a personal shortcoming.

Julian Pezzoli (04:06):
"She's one of the most sympathetic people we've ever covered."

The Initial Connection: Meeting Bobby

Four months before their fateful meeting at a Brighton nightclub in 2011, Kari receives a friend request from Bobby Jundu, a well-respected cardiology consultant from Kenya. Simran, Kari's cousin and Simran's brother JJ's girlfriend, introduces Bobby to Kari, making him appear as a trustworthy and affluent individual.

Patrick Hines (02:30):
"Sweet Bobby, my catfish nightmare."

Building the Deception

Despite both being in long-term relationships, Kari and Bobby develop an online friendship characterized by daily communication. Bobby shares personal struggles, including his wife cheating on him, which Kari empathizes with, further deepening their connection. However, underlying red flags, such as the absence of video calls or face-to-face interactions beyond their initial meeting, start to surface.

Jillian's Law T-Shirt Discussion (00:24–00:29):
Julian Pezzoli:
"It's like, oh, my God, it looks so good. And it's my favorite piece of new merch."

Emotional Manipulation and Escalation

As Bobby's life unravels—his wife divorces him, and he allegedly enters witness protection—Kari becomes his sole confidante. Bobby's fabricated crises serve to heighten Kari's emotional investment. He proposes to her via Facebook's drawing feature, a gesture that Kari accepts amidst the backdrop of her crumbling personal life and relentless cultural expectations to marry.

Julian Pezzoli (10:35):
"I was like, 'Oh my God, you're dragging me along for 15 years.' And that's no shade to Kari."

Despite Bobby's supposed entry into witness protection in New York, Kari remains oblivious to the deceit, maintaining a one-sided relationship where he can only communicate through typed messages or physical gestures like tapping on a table.

Patrick Hines (24:53):
"You might be thinking, I'm my little brother JJ, she finds out in that moment that he's not dead."

The Discovery and Confrontation

Kari's suspicions grow when inconsistencies emerge—photos of Bobby appear on Facebook showing him in a supposedly stable relationship with his ex-wife Sanj, who is raising their baby together. Determined to uncover the truth, Kari hires a private investigator, only to discover that Simran has been masquerading as Bobby all along.

Julian Pezzoli (56:50):
"Everyone is like, terrified and as everyone, we're at a fever pitch."

The revelation comes to a head when Kari confronts Bobby and Sanj at his residence, only to be met with blatant denial and confusion. Simran, revealed as the orchestrator of the entire scam, confesses to manipulating Kari for years, leaving her emotionally and mentally devastated.

Simran (65:03):
"I was Bobby. But I can't quite understand. And I was like calling out names. What about Sanj? What about Yash? What about Rajvir? What about Kiran?"

Aftermath and Implications

In the wake of the confrontation, Kari faces immense psychological trauma from the prolonged deception. The episode highlights the lack of legal frameworks to address such sophisticated online scams and the profound impact they have on victims. Kari's pursuit of justice is stymied by the complexities of proving such a deceitful scheme to authorities.

Patrick Hines (73:22):
"They are offering the opportunity to sit down and speak and she declined. She considered it a private matter and strongly objects to what she describes as, quote, numerous unfounded and damaging accusations."

Hosts' Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Julian and Patrick provide incisive commentary on the psychology of catfishing, the role of societal pressures in Kari's vulnerability, and the meticulous nature of Simran's manipulation. They emphasize the importance of awareness and legal reforms to protect individuals from such pervasive deceit.

Patrick Hines (74:12):
"We can't just do this. Like, the Internet can't just be this lawless swamp anymore."

Julian Pezzoli (74:36):
"We got out of that one alive. Oh, my God."

The hosts conclude by urging listeners to remain vigilant against online deceptions and to prioritize personal well-being over societal expectations. They highlight Kari's resilience and the dire need for support systems for victims of such elaborate scams.

Notable Quotes

• Julian Pezzoli (03:55):
  "It's wild, wild, wild."

• Patrick Hines (10:35):
  "He's a catch and he's an asshole."

• Julian Pezzoli (25:18):
  "If you're going to see the daggers. I was getting shot."

• Patrick Hines (74:39):
  "Stop seeing them at the kids table at weddings if they're single."

Conclusion

Episode 401 of True Crime Obsessed masterfully unravels the sinister layers of a prolonged catfishing ordeal that transcends typical online scams. Kari's story serves as a cautionary tale about the vulnerabilities imposed by cultural pressures and the seemingly insurmountable challenges in confronting deeply ingrained deceit. Julian and Patrick's engaging narration, coupled with their incisive commentary, provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the complexities involved in such true crime cases.

Transcript

[Julian Pezzoli]

Julian Pezzoli.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, Patrick Hines.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Can we give them the breaking news? I mean, it's maybe it's a little bit of old news, but it's also just still exciting news.

[Patrick Hines]

We're talking about merch.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know we're talk. The merch store fam went live for everybody yesterday. So if you didn't know, we have all this brand new merch. It's really great. We tried it all on. We've got blankets, we've got candles, we've got beanies.

[Patrick Hines]

We have like a long sleeve tee that is so comfortable and cozy.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And she's burying the lead. It's a Jillian's law T shirt. We've never had one of these before. It's like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, it makes me really shy, but the act like the actual fabric of the shirt, like a long sleeve shirt.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I was like, oh, my gosh, it looks so good. And it's my favorite piece of new merch. It's such a cool design. Check out the don't be garbage stuff. We got bunnies on that stuff now.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really cute.

[Julian Pezzoli]

The blankets are so cozy. I'm totally obsessed. We opened it for Patreon a week ago. Patreon. You can check your email for that 10% discount code. But for everybody else for the next couple of weeks or until it sells out. The merch store is now open for everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So just go to truecrimeobsess.com and click on the merch link.

[Patrick Hines]

Enjoy it, have fun.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And put your pictures in the group. We wanna see what you're wearing.

[Patrick Hines]

We totally wanna see them.

[Julian Pezzoli]

That's my favorite part.

[Patrick Hines]

The hoodies are so com.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, God, they're so. We did a have a chip and live hoodie.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. My mom is like, you what?

[Julian Pezzoli]

We need all of your mom's expression.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, yeah, girl, you're on a shirt, baby. Welcome to showbiz, kid.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Never in my life. Never, never, never in my life.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, but yes, we have, because it's the same playbook every time. I know my enemies are out to get me. How many times are we doing this with the enemies?

[Julian Pezzoli]

The witness protection program. Except for, not when it is.

[Patrick Hines]

Except for, not at.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Hi, Julia Bezzavalli. Hi.

[Patrick Hines]

Patrick Hines.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, Pham. How's it going, girl? How you doing?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm, you know, not great, but. No, I'm great. I'm wonderful. Thrilled to be here as usual, fam.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Join us over on the Patreon. We got so much great stuff over There, in addition to every week, you get a full ad free bonus episode covering the series on Netflix and Hulu and Max and all of those. We've got some great interviews on there lately. We got Sky Borgman, who directed the Lacy Peterson documentary. We got Kathy from Into the Fire. Josh Hallmark, who is talking about the Israel keys kill caches that they've been finding.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So many great reasons to join the Patreon over there. I'm just saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we. It's a party. We do drag bingo once a month.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Just at our Halloween one. It's great.

[Julian Pezzoli]

We got that tier where we send you some stuff. Oh, and the holiday calendar is coming up on that coming up.

[Patrick Hines]

End of the year calendar.

[Julian Pezzoli]

If you're ever going to join the hero bell tier, do it in the month of December to get the calendar.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So it's so, so worth it.

[Patrick Hines]

So good.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Anyway, girl, what are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

Sweet Bobby, my catfish nightmare.

[Kari]

What happened to me is just one crazy story. You can't make it up. We're talking about 10 years of my life. I was 32, very focused on my career. All my friends are getting married, and I just felt when they're going to be my turn. One day I get a friend request from Bobby.

[Sanj]

I've never spoken to her in my life.

[Kari]

I want answers. What I find so elaborate, so huge, is just unbelievable. Profiles disappear. I'm terrified. You don't know what they're capable of.

[Patrick Hines]

This is sickening.

[Kari]

What was it like? What was the truth? Who was the real Bobby all of this time? Who have I been sleeping on the phone with?

[Julian Pezzoli]

All right, first of all, I remember listening to this podcast when it came out, like two or three years ago.

[Patrick Hines]

So there is a podcast by the same name. I didn't listen. I did a deep dive into the podcast today, but I didn't listen to this. I'm going into this completely cold.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Well, the other thing, too. The documentary is called Sweet Bobby My Catfish Nightmare. The podcast is just called Sweet Bobby. We did not know it was a catfish until like several episodes in. Or maybe I'm getting that wrong. But the level of the catfishing was very much a shock in the podcast.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I mean, as it is here.

[Julian Pezzoli]

As it is here, it is wild, wild, wild. So we meet Kari. She is our protagonist. She's got to be one of the most sympathetic people I think we've ever covered. It's.

[Patrick Hines]

There's a lot happening here and a lot about her culture, and I'm mad at a lot of people on her behalf.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

She tells us she first Met Bobby in 2011 in a city called Brighton, which is on the south coast of England. It's gorgeous.

[Patrick Hines]

And they meet in person.

[Julian Pezzoli]

They meet in person. She's out partying with her girlfriends one night. It's. She's at her friend's hen weekend, her bachelorette week. I know. I had to look up.

[Patrick Hines]

I was like, what does a hen weekend okay?

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But they're like, partying down in.

[Kari]

I want to dance, let off steam, have a good laugh on the dance floor. But then I see this tall man in a turban. I've been talking to him online for the last few months. His name's Bobby Jundu.

[Julian Pezzoli]

They're like, partying down in Brighton and she sees this guy, his name is Bobby. And you know, she has known him on the Internet. They've been Facebook friends for a really long time. She goes up to him to, like, say hi. She's like, oh, my God, Bobby, what's up? It's Karit. And he, like, can't hear her.

[Patrick Hines]

She's so loud. She's like, it's me from Facebook. We've been talking for like three months.

[Julian Pezzoli]

He's like, what girl?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, no, I guess it is kind of warm in here. She's like, no, it's me.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

So the music's super loud. Like, he's probably been drinking and it's a little awkward. And Karit doesn't want to embarrass him, so she kind of lets it go. And she's like, I can't believe I just ran into this guy in Brighton of all places. Like, this is. So we've been talking online, like, once.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Again, they've only been friends on Facebook. This is the first time they're meeting in real life. So I guess it's not that weird that if he's been drinking, it's just a little out of place. Like, why would they both be there?

[Patrick Hines]

And this won't come up again. She doesn't say yes. Oh, were you, like, so weird? We were. Because they will then talk every single day for the next eight years, but it never comes up that they ran into each other.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And Korea, we should mention, she's 32. She's been in a long term relationship for like 18 years. She. All of her friends are getting married. She really wants to get married. She's like, when's it going to be my turn?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it's not just Korea. So. Kari was born and raised in West London. She lived there her whole Life. She describes herself as a Punjabi sick woman and her parents were born in Kenya.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now she will get into her culture in a little bit and the pressure on her to get married and the clock is ticking and you have to have kids and it's one of those.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Communities that's very small, very tight knit. Everybody knows everybody's business, says Kurit.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So four months before they meet at the club in Brighton, Bobby messages Kurit for the first time. And normally she wouldn't add some rando who just like message her out of nowhere. But they had people in common because Bobby's little brother JJ is dating Kurit's cousin Simran.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Teenagers. And like Karit's the cool older cousin, always giving advice. And so like her little cousin's boyfriend's brother reached out to her. She accepts the friend request totally.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And this guy Bobby is very cool. He comes from a well respected family in the Kenyan community.

[Kari]

He has quite a hweeti tweety kind of lifestyle, a well to do lifestyle. He's happily married, he's based between Kenya and the UK and he's a cardiology consultant.

[Julian Pezzoli]

What a cool fucking life.

[Patrick Hines]

He's going to fancy events, safaris, he's around exotic animals. He's a cardiology consultant and he's just like traveling the world. His family's really successful and kind of like well known in Kenya.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But like, guess who else has a lot going on? Karit. Her life is awesome. She's like, she's progressing in her marketing career. She says she does these big events, we see these pictures. She like does music festivals with emerging artists.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really cool. But my thing is, I'm like, okay, Bobby, you're talking to Karite regularly, regularly for months. They've never met. And he's confiding in her about like how stressed he is. Like weird behavior. For someone who's married, talking pretty intimately to your little brother's girlfriend's cousin. You've never met your pants Bobby.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Here's what the one thing that I was thinking about during all of this because Karit and Bobby are going to talk for a very long time without meeting in person. I just remember my international friends in college. This was normal. Like Europe is different than America. People travel, they've got friends from all over countries, everywhere. It's not like necessarily a weird thing, especially back in 2010 to like make a friend on the Internet that you don't know in real life, pouring your.

[Patrick Hines]

Heart out to your little brother's girlfriend's cousin.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I guess that's true. I mean, it's undeniably flirty. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

It's a little too.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Even though he's in a relationship, she's in a relationship.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's a little bit like what's going. Is this, like an emotional affair, Bobby?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Keep it in your pants.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Look, I'm starting off thinking that Bobby's a pretty good guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's called Sweet Bobby after all.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, we've been burned before, haven't we? Travel down the road back again, girl.

[Julian Pezzoli]

This message is sponsored by green Light. Every time we have green Light, I'm so excited because green light is a major thing that we use in my family every week.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. This is the debit card and money app that's made for families, right?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yes, exactly. So, number one, not only can you customize the debit card, I say this every time. So ours has a little picture of golden on it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But the way that it works, parents send money to their kids and keep an eye on kids spending and saving while kids and teens build money, confidence and lifelong financial literacy skills. Now, I never had this when I was a kid.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Pezzoli]

No one taught me about money. It's a privilege to get to teach Daisy about money. She has her chores every week. We pay her allowance through the app. When we are out and about, she wants to buy something. We do not buy things for her. She has her own money now and she can, like, look at the app, see how much money she has and decide if it's worth it. And we're seeing her really literally understand the value of money and like deciding what is worth spending money on.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The greenlight app also includes a chores feature.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So you can set up like a one time chore or recurring chores and then it's customized to your family's needs. But that's how you reward kids with allowance. And it's like all done on the app and they feel like really adult hours is too.

[Julian Pezzoli]

She has to unload the dishwasher and she has to fold and put away her.

[Patrick Hines]

Perfect.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And when she does it, she gets her allowance every week.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It really is working for us.

[Patrick Hines]

I think I need green light. I think I need that for my chores.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I'm obsessed. I love teaching her financial responsibility. Fam. You can sign up for Greenlight today.

[Patrick Hines]

At greenlight.com TCO that's greenlight.com TCO to try Greenlight today.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Greenlight.com TCO I. I'm telling you, it works.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I Believe you?

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You're emphatic. So everything's going great, right?

[Julian Pezzoli]

But eventually everything's coming up Bobby.

[Patrick Hines]

Until it's not coming up Bobby. His life starts to fall apart. His wife cheats on him, he files for divorce. And of course, Karit is there to be a shoulder to lean on. In fact, she has relationship issues of her own because she's 32 and she's been with this guy on and off since she's 18. It's a 14 year old situationship.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And she's talking about how like, this guy sucks. He sucks. And what I want to say about Karit is that she's one of those people who ever since she was a little kid, dreamed of getting married. She says at one point she wanted to, like, get married and have kids young. Like, she wanted to be like, married with kids in her 20s. That's her dream in life. And this guy is like stringing her. The boyfriend that she's been with for 18 years is totally stringing her along.

[Kari]

Me and my partner had been together on and off since I was 18, but as soon as we got close to getting married, he'd just get cold feet. He disappeared for a year. And then as soon as I kind of tried to move on, he would reappear and I would always go back to him because it was like that whole loyalty, that whole how I'd been brought up.

[Patrick Hines]

And then the minute she'd get over to him, he'd come calling and like, Karit is a catch and he's an asshole.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But Karit, can we focus on how much of a catch she is for a second? She's so smart, she's driven, she's motivated, she's beautiful, she's got a tight knit family. She describes herself as like the responsible one in her friend group. Like, it's why Bobby can lean on her when he leaves the wife for having cheated on him. Like, she is just a rock of a person.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I'm just really pissed off because this whole thing about her parents who are here to confirm the pressure they're putting on her to get married and have kids right this minute, because without doing that, she's useless.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Now, I want to say, because I was ready to be there too, but I do want to say that, like, we meet the parents, the mom and the dad are here, and I do feel like they make the point to say we want her to get married because that's what she wants, but we want her to be happy. Like, I do feel you're not Buying it.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not buying it because, I mean.

[Julian Pezzoli]

If you're going to see the daggers. I was getting shot.

[Patrick Hines]

I think this is a major reason why we're here, because they say marriage is too super important to us. We've always been very clear about this. They say all parents want to be grandparents. Lie. I have two parents who don't give a shit about that.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Is that right? They never cared.

[Patrick Hines]

They never cared. We've had conversations about. My parents, like, always knew from when I was pretty young. Like, that's. They're like, we're shocked. Even got married.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's the only thing that you and Daisy don't have in common.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I just was never. My mom always knew that that was not. And I was never pressured. Like, did they have conversations amongst themselves about what they. I don't know. But it never made it to me. We've had conversations, like, pretty recently with the four of us, me and Mike and my parents at the dinner table being like, our life's fudgeing great.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're not. They're not, like, really? I've never gotten even a whiff of, like, you sure? Because I was just, like, fully understood, and I feel so lucky and grateful. So I'm standing here with a very different perspective. But.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And we should also point out, though, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but Karine also wants it for herself.

[Patrick Hines]

And I. I agree. And I wonder how much of that is. Because she didn't really have a choice. Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And it's societal pressure. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Because her mother says if the girl doesn't get married, you're kind of looked down on, oh, my God, Why isn't she married?

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So in my notes, I have. I don't have anything nice to say here, so I'm not gonna say anything at all. Except for the fact that I believe this is a major.

[Julian Pezzoli]

What a boring podcast it would be if that was really the truth. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

This is a big part of why we're here.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm telling you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because. And also, like, because she's a catch. She was proposed to a bunch of times, but she always said no because she was holding out for that idiot who's dragging her along for 15 years. And that's no shade to Karit. This happens to amazing women all the time.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Absolute.

[Patrick Hines]

So Roshni is here. She's awesome. She's Karit's cousin.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But, like, Kari was more like her cool older sister.

[Patrick Hines]

And she says, like, amongst the cousins. Like, Kari was the cool kid and she had really great advice and everyone always went to her for advice.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And Roshni confirms.

[Kari]

I've been with Geeth when she's received comments of.

[Patrick Hines]

Have you found someone yet or do.

[Kari]

You need us to find you someone? A couple of weddings have been sat at the kids table.

[Julian Pezzoli]

A couple of weddings I've gone to, I've been seated at the kids table.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. This.

[Julian Pezzoli]

That is some bullshit.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is like. And you wonder why she wants to get married so badly so that she's seen as a fucking person.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, she only has value if she's married and has kids. And like, I understand. I'm going to be really careful here because I do understand that, like, and I agree. Keeping your culture is super fucking important.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, some shit should be left in the stone age where it belongs. And that's how I feel.

[Julian Pezzoli]

The seating the adult at the kids table because she's not married. That is so offensive.

[Patrick Hines]

So she would vent about to Bobby, who is always nice and supportive and reminding her that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a 32 year old unmarried woman. Because there's not.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh my God. What if I was like.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, like, I would walk. Honestly, I would walk the fuck out of here and I would never look back.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I would be like, set it on fire like that House in the Lake episode Vegas.

[Patrick Hines]

And yes, I would just be done.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Totally. I don't think they would have gotten very far.

[Patrick Hines]

They don't follow me right out the door.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I don't think we would have gotten this far if that was. If that was how I felt.

[Patrick Hines]

And also now I'm just like, then you would have to air this.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know you would make up some.

[Patrick Hines]

Story about like, she ran away like a thief in the night.

[Julian Pezzoli]

She's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

One of those crazy women. Blame it on me. So Bobby and Kari, they eventually fall out of touch a little bit. Life happens. He's getting divorced. Like, they both have their personal shit. A few months go by and then Bobby reaches out to catch up.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it turns out he really wants to tell her that not only did he get divorced, but it's been like maybe a year. He's already engaged again. I'm like, man, this guy Bobby's a walking red flag.

[Simran]

Is he?

[Patrick Hines]

It's a lot.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

What's he. What's going on with him?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Seems like a catch to me.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I don't know. We've never been at.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, what are you doing here?

[Julian Pezzoli]

I love the parents. I want to marry Bobby.

[Patrick Hines]

I know it's called Sweet Bobby, but obviously he's a piece of shit. I'm like, bobby, what are you doing? You're married already? Like, what's happening?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Well, he. We see a video of the proposal. His. His bride to be, her name is Sanj. And he proposes to her in a hot air balloon.

[Kari]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, are they in the air? They're in there.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And I don't like it because all I could think of is, you're gonna drop the ring. You're in a hot air balloon. You're gonna drop the fucking ring. One of you is gonna fall out of that little basket, and I know it's scary. Can we just end. Hot air balloons, they're scary. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Are they bad for the earth? Probably.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Probably. But like, a. It's a very scary. You're in a basket 25,000ft in the air.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, slowly, where's the thrill? I don't get it.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Do you have a parachute? Are there parachutes in there?

[Patrick Hines]

Better. Like, what is the equivalent of a life vest? You have one for a boat. What do you have in the hot air?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Just stay on the ground.

[Patrick Hines]

You just, like, float down slowly. Like a feather. No, you plummet to your death.

[Julian Pezzoli]

That's the only way to get out of a hot airplane.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Or slowly come down wires and you die.

[Patrick Hines]

Or you slowly. Well, this was fun. Like, how. How long are you in that hot air balloon, really?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Were hot air balloons always meant to be, like, a romantic thing, or were they ever actually used for Trav. That's my question.

[Patrick Hines]

I think they were used for travel. Or maybe not just travel.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You know what? I'm gonna get the keys to the hot air balloon.

[Patrick Hines]

I could see the old timey, like, totally looking, waving down to all the townspeople.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I will travel by hot air balloon. I will arrive in three days hence.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure that is what happened. I'll see you in a fortnight. Karit is a little worried. She's like, I don't love the rebound. I think she's a little jealous too.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Karit is definitely jealous, but she's like.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, I'm so happy.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Bobby wants Karit and Sanj to be friends, which makes zero sense, but they become friends on Facebook.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Kari]

I am invited to the wedding, and due to family circumstances at that time, I just couldn't go.

[Patrick Hines]

Due to family circumstances at the time, I couldn't go. We don't get any details on that. But remember that because it'll come back later.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

It'll come back later.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh my God, you're right.

[Patrick Hines]

Just remember that.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Put a pin and she's like, due.

[Patrick Hines]

To family circumstances, I couldn't go put.

[Julian Pezzoli]

A pin in it the way I would imagine you would put a pin in the hot air balloon to land.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You gotta pop the thing. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And is it. Are you like coming in for landing like a plane where you're just landing for like a mile or are you slowly just coming down?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Do you have to live in a part of the world where you can put those huge pieces on the ground?

[Patrick Hines]

The amount. I don't care about air. Hot air, hot air descent. I just, I really, I just don't. I love myself not caring about it.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But I love the idea that they were at one point the cars of the time.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope everyone had a lovely time. I hope everyone had a. Yeah, that little like you're in like the picnic basket.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's a picnic basket.

[Julian Pezzoli]

How you get there? Seems like you could have put the.

[Patrick Hines]

Engineering they worked with what they had.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Brainery into something a little bit more.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, they did. I mean, look at us now. We landed on the moon.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Too many cars.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're getting lots of like really intimate and probably inappropriate. A little too familiar. They've never met in person. Again, it's Bobby's little brother's girlfriend's cousin.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That they've never met.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Well, I mean, so one of the things we know about Karin is that she has a radio show.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's also. I'm sorry, it's also weird that they haven't met because the cousin that she's super close with is dating this guy's little brother.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And they've never met in real life. And I thought they live in this like tight knit community where everybody knows each other. How have they not crossed paths?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Here's why I think they haven't met because they probably know that the relationship is inappropriate. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So like they can't probably meet. It's all. It feels very sexily unspoken but not.

[Patrick Hines]

Even like in passing.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Well, they did meet Brighton. You know what I mean? Like they met at the nightclub that one time. He didn't seem to know who she was.

[Patrick Hines]

Weirdly weird. So years go by, everyone is in touch. Karit, Bobby, Bobby's wife. Are the little brother and cousin still dating? We don't know. Clear.

[Julian Pezzoli]

This is a great documentary by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But can we get the documentary about hot air balloons?

[Patrick Hines]

No, you can watch it. You know what? That's something that my dad would fall asleep watching on an Sunday after.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Totally. The invention of the hot air balloon.

[Patrick Hines]

He would be, like, super fascinated for five minutes and then he'd be asleep.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

So Karina's super cool and fun and she has a radio show.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right. So one Thursday, Karita's at work doing her radio show, and she's got Facebook over because that's how she connects with some of her listeners. She sees a post from Sanj, who's.

[Kari]

Bobby's wife, on my Facebook feed, Sand just posted a photo of Bobby with a comment saying, bobby's been shot several times in Kenya. He's in a critical condition, and he's.

[Julian Pezzoli]

In a coma fighting for his life. In critical condition.

[Patrick Hines]

He's been shot in Kenya.

[Julian Pezzoli]

In Kenya, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And please keep Bobby in your thoughts and prayers. He didn't deserve this at all. Now, thankfully, Kurit's cousin Simran is also in Kenya. She is. Was dating Bobby's little brother. And Kurit says they're old family friends and they're quite close. So thank goodness Simran is on the ground and we can get some information from her.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah. It's funny because Karine is a wreck over this. And we get her aunt who's like, we were trying to be around and be supportive of her because her friend was in really bad shape. But I took notice that this was a little bit more than, like, a regular friendship. Like, the aunt is the first to be like, what's going on here?

[Patrick Hines]

She's caring a lot for someone she's never met. And what happened is horrifying. I'm just saying, it's like her whole world was turned upside down.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, you know, Karin asks her cousin Simran what's going on? And her cousin's like, oh, my God, he's a fighter. I'm like, wow, okay, you're super close with this guy and super close with your cousin, but you, you've never met. Okay?

[Julian Pezzoli]

And so here's the thing. I looked it up because I was like, they've never had a FaceTime. Like, how is it that you've been friends for three years, you're invited to the wedding. Invited to the wedding. You're friends with his new wife, but no one's ever been like, let's do a FaceTime happy hour. FaceTime was not a thing until 2010. This was like a year after this.

[Patrick Hines]

Skype was a thing.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Skype was huge. That's what I Remember from college, all of my WhatsApp.

[Patrick Hines]

You can video chat on WhatsApp, which is what they were using.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yes. So it is like. And we know this is a catfish because it's in the title. So we're not. It's not a spoiler. But, like, there comes a point in all of these where people are being willfully blind to things that are kind.

[Patrick Hines]

Of glaring because it was drilled into Kari to get married and have kids and fall in love and be with somebody.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But I'm just saying that, like, this guy is married. Like, you're not going to be with a married guy, but you're continuing the relationship anyway. But, like, so that it makes it even weirder if you're just friends. Why have you never had a Skype? Not one time.

[Patrick Hines]

And I wonder if there's that willful ignorance of this is fun and harmless and I don't give a shit who he is or isn't, but I'm getting attention and it's no shade. It's just like, yeah, it's all.

[Julian Pezzoli]

All wrapped into that.

[Patrick Hines]

She went through a bad breakup and this is a safe thing. They don't want to meet because then it's real. And so she can just, like, be really looking forward to her messages on a daily basis.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God. Totally. That's very plausible.

[Patrick Hines]

It could be. And that's like, fine. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Branch Basics is a new sponsor this month. So get this. Branch Basics is a plant and mineral based solution designed to clean every room in your house.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So luckily we've got three rooms.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So it's all about the Branch Basic Starter kit.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And you're cleaning your home, but it's without the harmful chemicals. So they just use one concentrate.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And you can do everything from, like, laundry to kitchen counters to bathrooms.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah. They say that the concentrate replaces all of the cleaning supplies when diluted with water. So that was our experience. Right. We used to have a hole under the sink full of, like, other products.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julian Pezzoli]

All that harmful stuff that, like, you're afraid the dog is going to eat. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, guess what? It's safe for babies. It's safe for pets. Anyone with sensitive skin, which I have. And best of all, it keeps the air in your home free of those harmful toxins. Like all of these things that you could potentially be buying at the store where it's like, oh, it kills all of this. Maybe they have harmful things in here. We know that. Branch Basics does not.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And can I tell you, it smells Amazing. It lasts forever. It's pretty to look at. Maybe that shouldn't matter but it does. Yeah, we love it. Like we used to go into the bathroom with a bucket full of stuff to use. Now we got the one thing and.

[Patrick Hines]

You don't think about it this way but really like the non toxic cleaning movement is like really you're kind of investing in your whole long term health.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Truly and the health of your pet. Our dog will get into every single thing. You don't have to worry about it. So fam, get yourself and your loved ones the best gift of all. The gift of clean with branch Basics.

[Patrick Hines]

For a limited time only our listeners get 15% off and free shipping on their premium starter pack when you use code [e-mail] tco that's 50% off when.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You [e-mail] TCO with promo code tco.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, support our show and tell them we sent you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah. Get Branch basics this holiday season because cleanliness matters and do that forward slash. Or else. Or else.

[Patrick Hines]

I didn't want to say it.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You're in big trouble. Just kidding. We love you.

[Patrick Hines]

Just kidding.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So. So here. So when is protection's about to enter the chat.

[Patrick Hines]

So one day Simran calls and this call changes everything. Simran, the cousin dating the little brother says oh my God, you'll never guess.

[Kari]

She tells me Bobby's in witness protection in a hospital in New York recovering from his awful injury. Injuries. Witness protection, New York. What is going on? I didn't understand.

[Patrick Hines]

He's in New York City in a hospital. He's been escorted there by Interpol from Kenya to New York.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Now friends, can we just say the quickest way to know that somebody is not in witness protection is by somebody telling you that they are.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Just keep that in mind forever. Going forward, if somebody's ever like my friend is in witness protection or the guy that you like that's married to that other guy who's the brother of my cousin is in witness protection. No they aren't.

[Patrick Hines]

No, they are.

[Julian Pezzoli]

No, no, no they are. And that's the, that's the right time to fire up the old Skype account and have a face to face.

[Patrick Hines]

But what happens is because they've been talking for so long, Korea, it's like, holy shit. Witness protection. That means he's in danger.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like he comes from this really fancy pants family. Something happened. Like his family was famous in Kenya. Could he be targeted? And Karit explains to us that at the time she says people being shot in Kenya wasn't unusual.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So she's like, oh my God, what is going on?

[Julian Pezzoli]

But like, we see her googling witness protection program and like, why first search result, like, if you're googling this, the person who told you about it is not in witness protection.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it should just be like a.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I love you and I feel for you. But, like, some of this was glaring, so.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially because Bobby then messages Kurit. It's a brand new profile for his protection. The protection from my enemies. Train is never late. We did this in bad vegan. We did this in puppet master, please. So he's in witness protection due to a quote, bad business deal and he's breaking all the rules messaging her. Which again, like that raises the stakes even more. They do this all the time.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, we know that this isn't how witness protection works, but it is how scammers work.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

They use these high profile government shit to raise the stakes and get their victims to feel more invested. Again, bad vegan, puppet master, tinder, swindler. My enemies, my enemies.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's the same shit. I know, I know. And now Karit is feeling like just by her proximity to Bobby, could she possibly be in danger? But then now, suddenly Bobby is suicidal.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because he's not doing well. He's so depressed and he's stressed out and now his second marriage is falling apart. He has no one. He only has Karit. This is all by design. This exactly what he wanted. And. And on top of it, after 18 years of bullshit, Karita and that shitty on again, off again boyfriend break up for good. And I say good riddance to the smallest man who ever lived. Except for maybe Bobby.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Except for maybe Bobby. And so. But the thing is, like, Karita's really worried about disappointing her parents because now that marriage is not gonna happen.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, she's 35 years old. She might as well be dead.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know, but she's not married. Her mom is here to say I.

[Kari]

Felt very upset because they had dreams together. They were planning the kirat was thinking that she's going to let us down because we were always hoping for her.

[Julian Pezzoli]

To just get married and settled.

[Kari]

I always say it's not her fault. We are always there to support her.

[Julian Pezzoli]

We are always here to support you. Like, they didn't want her to marry somebody that she didn't love.

[Patrick Hines]

But they are disappointed.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I guess. But I mean, yeah, I guess they're disappointed.

[Patrick Hines]

They're like saying it. They're disappointed. That she is a woman of 35 and she's unmarried and she doesn't have kids. They are definitively disappointed.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Wait until she does get engaged. And the mop is like, well, this can't happen unless your dad says yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, we'll get to that. And at one point, they're like, we don't even have to, like the guy. Just fudgeing. Get married. You're useless.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So Bobby and Karit, now, of course, they find support in each other. They're helping each other through this horrible time. They're always checking in on each other. And great news. Witness protection people give him permission to speak to Korea because they're both so sad and need a friend.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

They. The special witness protection people.

[Julian Pezzoli]

This would just never happen.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it's the worst witness protection I've ever seen because it's fake. But the amount of people that this guy is allowed to. First of all, he doesn't change his name. He gets to be Bobby.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And his friend Yash, Bobby's cousin. Witsec. Approved. He's a great guy. Super funny. He's like. He's like the funny one.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He's reporting back to Korea. Rajvir, another good friend of Bobby's also. What's that? Approved.

[Julian Pezzoli]

He kept himself on Bobby's witness protection medical team.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

What a. What a what?

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone, Rajvir is here to be a medic and also, like, the go between.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know. Can I just tell you? I love these names. I think they are so beautiful. Rajvir is like. Like, just saying the name is like, I have a friend named Hami. Like, I just. I love these names.

[Patrick Hines]

It's beautiful.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I love them.

[Patrick Hines]

So the three of them are in a group chat called the three Amigos. They're all just like, super, super tight buds.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You hate everything.

[Patrick Hines]

I just. Because. And again, like, we have the privilege of seeing 15 documentaries about this. And Karit is just sitting here like her friend is in trouble. And to me, I resent the fact that people get away with this shit.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it makes me crazy. But Karit, we have to remember and we'll, like, by the end of this, you'll understand how like this, not overnight. It was a decade. And it started really slowly. And there was a lot of patience.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And what's so sad about it is that all she wanted was to be married young with kids. She wanted to do this in her youth.

[Patrick Hines]

Even though, like, they're not romantic right now.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Kari]

But then one day he tells me he loves me. Oh. Just. It was I totally ignored that comment. I was adamant he was not in the right headspace. I know I wasn't in the right place to start a new relationship.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's four years of chatting.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Thousands of messages. And one day, again with the fucking drama. I love you too much. This isn't good.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And she tries to ignore it.

[Patrick Hines]

And here. But this is important. I want to slow down on this. Karit's like, I can't. I'm in a bad place. You're in a bad place. Like, you know, she goes to the group chat, talks to her inner circle, and everyone is like, no, no, no, this is real. This is real. This is real. So also, like, aren't these people, like, 40? It's all, like, so high school in the bad way, like, going, like, let me go to the group chat to make sure he.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And it's like, oh, God, would I fall for this?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. In the moment. In the moment. That's part of the fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the moment, like, it's kind of fun.

[Julian Pezzoli]

He's a witness for teachers.

[Patrick Hines]

But you don't, though, like, you're married. You know what I mean?

[Julian Pezzoli]

I don't mean, like. I don't mean, like, me. Like, I don't really need this, but, like, I can see the sort of, like, star crossed appeal.

[Patrick Hines]

There's something about it that's, like, kind of fun and sexy, dangerous.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Remind me that I. I know, but.

[Patrick Hines]

There is something about it that's, like, fun and sexy and dangerous and kind of harmless and.

[Julian Pezzoli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no world in which anyone is thinking it's gonna end how it ends.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So for Karit, it's like, the other.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Thing, too is that, like, Karit has now established this community because it's not just Bobby. It's his. It's his wife, who's now out of the picture, but also his cousins and his friends.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's kind of fun to say, like, does he loves me? He loves me not? I don't know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I will say, her instinct was to say no. Her instinct was to say, no, you don't love me. We've never met. You're in a bad place. But it's all of the supporting charact characters who are like, no, no, no, no, girl. This is real.

[Patrick Hines]

So then she has not responded to the I love you.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But disaster strikes once more. Bobby has a stroke. His body's giving up. One of his friends sends a photo of Bobby in the hospital, which is a Google image of, like, someone on their deathbed. You can't see anyone clearly.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But the friends ask Kari to record an anonymous goodbye message because Bobby's dying.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And we hear the message.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It is so sad.

[Patrick Hines]

She is crying and she's like, I.

[Kari]

Love you so much.

[Patrick Hines]

Much, Bobby.

[Kari]

Whatever it is we have, it's special.

[Patrick Hines]

I wish things could have been different.

[Julian Pezzoli]

If I could just hold you once.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll never forget you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I love you, Bobby.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to slow down on what happened. He said I love you. She didn't immediately respond. Suddenly the worst thing in the world happens, forcing her to get more emotionally attached.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And now that she's right where he wants her, he's on.

[Julian Pezzoli]

That's fine. He's on.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm not saying this to Shade Creep. I'm saying this as a warning.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like this is, has been a gradual con for four years. Learn from this. Everyone look like watch what happened? He said I love you. She said no. Disaster, high stance, emotion. Oh my God, I do love you. Like this is all planned.

[Julian Pezzoli]

The other thing that is mind boggling is it's been four years. He told her that he loves her. They've never spoken on the phone. And guess what? Well now his voice. He's lost his voice in the stroke.

[Patrick Hines]

He's paralyzed on one side because of the stroke.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So but he, he has just enough movement to keep up the thousands and thousands of messages. Thank God.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

The messages are super lovey dovey. They are committed completely. They are now in a full on relationship. They are boyfriend, girlfriend.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah. They're talking every single day. She's sending him like endless voice notes and he can't talk so he would.

[Patrick Hines]

Type back or squeak at her or knock on the table. Yeah, they're totally one sided. From Kurit's end. No video from Bobby. No voice from Bobby. He would squeak at her.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Or tap on the table. Tap three times if I love you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

The producer asks her, was there a sexual side to your relationship?

[Patrick Hines]

Shuts that down.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Shut it down.

[Patrick Hines]

But there was.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But there was there what? They're having phone sex.

[Patrick Hines]

They're intimate. And you know, Kari doesn't care about the haters because she's like, it's all. Yes, it's all online. Yes. He doesn't speak. But she, what she says is she felt love and respected and that's all she ever wanted.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And honestly, like you're right, the clock for her is ticking. This is the guy now. She like let that other guy string her along for 18 years. And that's no shade to carry. Like he was not treated. Yes. And now like if she's going to get married and like have the dream of having kids, it's now or never. And you know, being set at the.

[Patrick Hines]

Kids table at wedding, she's not being treated like a fully formed 35 year old woman. And she's okay, it's okay to not be married and have kids. And she's being told by everyone around her that it's not.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, I mean, I do believe that she really does want kids. And Bobby is dangling like he really wants kids too. So this is the guy she is all in.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Bobby proposes to her via.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Some new feature on Facebook.

[Patrick Hines]

This like chat drawing feature, because he can't video chat with her and he can't speak.

[Julian Pezzoli]

The question was more like, that's not still a feature of Facebook. I've never seen that.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, but he draws it. He draws the proposal. He draws like a little ring.

[Kari]

She says, I mean, it's quite an unusual way to do it, but I don't need a big extravagant proposal. Of course all girls grieve of them, but lots of things seem like they're superficial and for show. So an understated proposal is good enough.

[Julian Pezzoli]

This is fine. I'll take it.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the clock is ticking. Her words. She's 36 years old, practically dead, and they're planning the wedding online and everything is so fancy that the ring he chose actually had too many diamonds. I mean, he never bought it. He just sent her the link to the ring that he'll one day buy her. Yes, still too many diamonds.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Too many diamonds.

[Patrick Hines]

But the engagement isn't official because her families have to meet. But it's. This engagement still means a lot to create because this means that she's finally getting everything she wants and everything her family's pushing on her. But it's like not official in her culture until the both the families meet.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And the big thing about this is that Bobby is talking to the mom too. And the mom is like, his voice was real weird because he's squeaking, he's tapping, he's mostly typing. Bobby is saying to the mom, please, please, please don't tell your husband. I know it is customary to tell the husband, have the husband go to Kenya and meet my family and approve of this. I want to tell him in person. I'm going to get there just as soon as I can because I'm not.

[Patrick Hines]

Fully healed yet and I'm in witness protection and my stroke, like, I want this to be the best meeting ever. So if everyone could just Sort of. Hold tight. I want to be my best version of myself before I meet the father.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So the dad does not know.

[Patrick Hines]

So the dad doesn't know, but everyone else is in a group chat on Facebook.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right? Oh, by the way, he's still in witness protection.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, can I just stop on this for two fucking seconds?

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

When you are in witness protection, I know you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You're working at Cinnabon in the mall. And you're never seeing anyone ever again.

[Patrick Hines]

Shirley, I'm wearing brightly colored clothes. I'm Cinnabon in the mall.

[Simran]

Yes, you.

[Patrick Hines]

As you are, you cease to exist. Yes, you never, ever, ever speak to your family again. Your mother's sick and she dies. Too bad. You never talk and you leave in the middle. I' yeah, no, I know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You become a different person. Did you guys catch the better Call Saul reference? The Cinnabon in the mall? I made it in Nebraska.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Every Cinnabon employee is in the witness protection. You can't tell me it's not right or like.

[Patrick Hines]

Or are they or aren't they? But the point is, you don't keep your name. You can't still speak to everyone you know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You literally are dead to every. Everybody wonders where you went. You got beamed up to another planet.

[Patrick Hines]

Who you are, poof. You cease to exist. And no matter what. Yeah, maybe. No, you, no matter what. You're never talking to anybody.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Guess who is not a good candidate for witness protection? Ms. Patrick Hines. You imagine I would be calling you in two minutes? Well, you just wouldn't go, I'm in witness.

[Patrick Hines]

You just wouldn't. They wouldn't take you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

They would not take.

[Patrick Hines]

They'd be like, you're on your own, kid.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You're on your own.

[Patrick Hines]

We're not doing that.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You should not have informed on the mob. Like, I'm sorry. You should have known better.

[Patrick Hines]

The rules has been very clear.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's me. I did it.

[Patrick Hines]

I'd be like, he's. No, I would never rat. I'm no rat. But I'd have to act like I don't know you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, that would be it.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I'd be like, wrong number. Bye.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You're being really ruly about this, Chili.

[Patrick Hines]

For your own safety. Travel down road. Back again, girl.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Hydro is back. So we're talking the hydro rower, which I use almost every day. And let me tell you, it's not a treadmill. It's not an elliptical. It's not a bike. It's a rowing machine. It works almost every Muscle in your body.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's the ultimate full body workout. It works 86% of your muscles, like arms, legs, core. It only takes 20 minutes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It also works muscles you didn't even know you had. Like, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

You feel, but it's a good way.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And listen, no matter what your starting point or goal is, whether you're training for a marathon or training for life, hydro meets you where you are. So I had been running for a long time. I was never a rower. They sent us a hydro. I use it almost every day. I immediately became good at rowing and like it eliminated. I want to say 20 minutes for my workout cuz I'm like, I don't have to do arms now, I don't have to do legs now.

[Patrick Hines]

Everything. And it's low impact, which means that there's minimal risk of injury. And it combines strength and cardio. So you're getting everything in one.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You know, like sometimes you need that extra, extra motivation. All hydro workouts are led by Olympians and world class athletes. They're top tier coaches. And what's really cool, hydro workouts are filmed all over the world outside, not stuck in some studio. So I do the rowing on the Charles river in Boston because that's where my sisters used to row when they were in college. I'm like, now look at me. Yeah, I made it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So give the gift of a full body workout all from the comfort of home with hydro.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah. Head over to hydro.com and use code TCO to save up to 4. $475 of your hydro. Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow. That's H Y--R-O-W.com code TCO to save up to $475.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Hydro.com code TCO. I'm telling you, it works. I love it so much. Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

Full body, 20 minutes and like you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Feel like you really did it. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Cause he did.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Cause he did.

[Patrick Hines]

So the father doesn't know about it, but all the cousins are in the chat, right? Like her cool cousin slash sister Roshani who's here with us, like she attests like all the cousins are in the chat.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Kurit's Roshni is saying she really connected with Bobby and Bobby is a doctor. And Roshni importantly says, I was classic teenager, super angsty.

[Kari]

Bobby was a doctor. So I started to speak to Bobby about how I was feeling and who gives good advice. And I feel like I've been listened.

[Julian Pezzoli]

To and heard and he really made me feel like seen and heard.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, so he was talking to people. But, like, if Bobby could speak, it would only be by the squeaky whisper. And please don't talk about it. He's very self conscious. He almost died, you dick. Like, don't mention it. And the family is like, honestly, we don't really even care about the voice. Just get married.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Please, just get married and have kids. You're 36. You might as well be dead. We don't have to like the guy. Please, just get married. This is all about us and our disappointment. It's not about you. Get married. You're useless. Get married. We don't even care about the voice anymore.

[Julian Pezzoli]

No, no, no, I don't.

[Patrick Hines]

God damn it.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Well, and the other thing.

[Patrick Hines]

What? Do you want to be at the kids table for the rest of your life, you idiot. Get married.

[Julian Pezzoli]

She is on video. He can't be because of witness protection.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, Okay, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Call the hospital.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know. It's just like everything is right there.

[Patrick Hines]

I love to know the lie about why everyone in his life is allowed to see him and visit him and speak to him. Except for Karine.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I would love to know. I mean, they left us out. But like, what is the lie?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, good question.

[Patrick Hines]

He told her.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So everything is perfect. And then disaster strikes yet again. Because this is how the scammers keep you invested. Bobby tells Karit on Father's Day that he cheated on her. And Saj, his ex wife, is having his baby. Yet another person he's allowed to speak to and witness protection have sex with. He was in a coma. He had a stroke. He can't move, he can't speak. And he had sex with this person?

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

No. But apparently I'm like, what? But apparently this was like seven or eight months ago before they got together. So she's having the baby like right now?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

This was eight months ago, you know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And Karina saying, like, it all just felt the betrayal that she's feeling is a lot. And she's like, it also just felt really unfair knowing how much I wanted to be a mom.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

So it's devastating. And her cousin Simran is here because Simran, remember, is dating Bobby's little brother.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's really, really close to the family. And she's the one who was like, on the ground in Kenya giving Karit all these updates. So Karit is really confiding in cousin Simran.

[Kari]

And Karit says, and poor Simran. I am constantly messaging her, no matter what Bobby did She's like, but he loves you. You know he loves you. I feel like she's got that soft spot for Bobby.

[Patrick Hines]

For whatever reason, she's here to, like, vouch for Bobby.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And Carit finally says, she's like, I sent him a straightforward message. That, baby, I can handle, but I don't want Sanj in my life.

[Patrick Hines]

That's impossible.

[Julian Pezzoli]

To which I.

[Patrick Hines]

You're about to marry this guy. He has a. It's. Your husband has a child with another woman. This woman's in your life forever.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Like, that's just how it is.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just. But. But Bobby's like, okay. Like, please.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And also, this is another moment where some members of the family are like, what is going on here? This is an eye opener.

[Patrick Hines]

I know she's a useless unmarried woman, but maybe. Maybe this guy isn't a bad idea. Like, maybe it's not the best idea. So Kari is talk. And, like, it's just all gets so childish because, like, Karit is talking to more of Bobby's cousins, saying things like, if I stay with him, will you talk to him for me?

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, this is just not. It's just not a good relationship. Like, all the red flags, too. It's just like, it's so immature. It's bad.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's bad. And you feel for creep because she wants it so badly.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And she's like, a good, sweet person who deserves love, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

So Sanj, the ex wife gives birth. We see all these photos. Bobby and Sanj look very happy together.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, they've been together this whole time.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Very cute baby and creed.

[Patrick Hines]

Just, you know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And by the way, Bobby does not look like a person who's had three heart attacks and a stroke and was shot six times. He looks pretty good.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, these pictures are being posted on Facebook in witness protection.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Why do we have all these photos?

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So even though Karit says, I don't want anything to do with Sanj, Bobby.

[Kari]

Makes an effort to include me in everything.

[Patrick Hines]

Heavy disguised in a name.

[Kari]

We spent a couple of nights choosing names. He really liked jv. We chose baby clothes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Picking out baby clothes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, and then he'd send her the photos of his son in the clothes that they picked.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So convoluted and weird. And also, like, what hospital is he in? In New York City, because they suck at this. Also, he's not really there.

[Julian Pezzoli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

But you're thinking it's been 18 months. They got together after he was already in the hospital. Like WITSEC didn't move him to a safer location. Like with all this other drama, we've all kind of forgotten about the witness protection part of it.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Because of the baby and the cheating and the high stakes. It's like, whatever.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Well, so they're 18 months into their relationship. They say there's been many attempts to try to bring Karit and Bobby together. That Roger, his cousin, who's also on his medical team in witness protection is trying to make it happen. But witness protection gives their decision and they still have to wa.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Bobby convinces a nurse to give cousin Simran one of his old shirts and cousin Simran is going to give it to Korea. And like, this is why. I'm like, I'd love to know the bullshit story about why Karit is the only person in his life not allowed to see him.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know. Well, the whole deal is that like Simran's to New York for a job and that's where. That's where Bobby's in the hospital.

[Patrick Hines]

But he can cheat on Korean with his ex wife. But the love of his life can't be on that list of like, if.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You'Re creed, why aren't you just getting on a plane and going to New York?

[Patrick Hines]

There's a million reasons why. Yeah, he's told a million reasons why.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But I mean like, I would have the same questions as you. Why can everybody see you but me?

[Patrick Hines]

And there's always some high stakes reason. And remember, all of these people are telling her the same thing. So she like the cousins questions she has like her own like Simran is telling her they're all like, they all are on the inside somehow and creates the outcome. Outsider. And she's kind of like, well, if everyone's telling me the same thing, like, and I'm seeing the photos.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I mean, and like he's telling her every day that he loves her, that everything is great. They're going to be together forever. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure that Bobby is saying all the right things to her too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so Karide meets up with her cousin and they do the shirt handoff and it like smells like his cologne. And he's asking her like, wear my shirt and send me pictures of it. They're kind of like sexy.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I mean, I kind of love it.

[Patrick Hines]

If it was real.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Because like, the thing is Bobby also sucks. Like he's controlling. He's a bummer.

[Simran]

He's.

[Julian Pezzoli]

He makes a big change here. He's got from being this like really sweet, caring guy to being, like, a really controlling, abusive monster.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So everything's a fight.

[Kari]

I found myself walking on eggshells because he was sensitive to absolutely everything. If I needed to go through the bathroom, didn't want to wake him up. So quietly, I just go. It's like, where were you? If I wasn't on the other end of the phone line, it upset him.

[Patrick Hines]

She needs permission for everything. Everything's an emergency. And he's picking fights with her.

[Julian Pezzoli]

He's also really depressed and is leaning on her for, like, for everything.

[Patrick Hines]

What kind of relationship is this?

[Julian Pezzoli]

She says, like, they'd be on the phone all night. Now she is on the phone on video. He's on the phone only on voice.

[Patrick Hines]

Squeaking and tapping the table.

[Julian Pezzoli]

If he falls asleep and she gets up to go to the bathroom and then he wakes up while she's gone, he flips out.

[Patrick Hines]

And the minute.

[Julian Pezzoli]

That's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

That's crazy. And the minute she'd put up a boundary, like, here comes the text. Oh, he's flatlining. Always dying.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And all her friend, all his friends and now her friends, every time she put up a boundary or pull away, there'd be something that, like, pull her back in.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And her friends and her cousins are saying to us in the documentary, we'd come over just to see her. She'd be on the phone with him the entire time. Like, her cousin is like, I was there for an hour and there were, like, three emergencies.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, she is now spiraling. She gives up her job.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She gives up her radio show. This is her entire life. And for what? For the stupid flowers he'd send?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Can we talk about why she gives up the radio show? The radio show is everything to her. She loves it.

[Kari]

I'm doing one of my final radio shows of the year, and he's on the Skype call with me, and I'm answering calls, doing my thing as usual. And he says, I'm flirting. So to prove, you know, I'm committed, I'm loyal. So I give up my show.

[Julian Pezzoli]

He flips out and is like, you were overly flirty. You were overly, like, affectionate with this one listener.

[Patrick Hines]

She's, like, abusive.

[Julian Pezzoli]

What are you talking about? And in order to, like, quiet him and calm him and keep him, she quits the radio show.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. This is, like, coercive control. This is abuse. This is horrifying.

[Julian Pezzoli]

What she has. No. She lost her marketing job now. She's lost her radio job. She is jobless now.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, like, what are you going to do, break up with the dying guy? Yes. Yeah, because he's fucking his ex wife. Like, what are you talking about?

[Julian Pezzoli]

You're right about the societal pressure. She can't. This is her last chance in her mind.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. You know, her mind. So he's lying all the time. All these broken promises. And now by this point she's saying like, she's 39 years old and she's had it. And she says to him, you know what? Enough is enough. Either you get your ass here now or this is over. Because she start, she's starting to see the cracks in this. Like it's. If everyone else can see you, get your ass out of witness protection and get back to London or else.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And she's finally sort of starting to revel in her own power. She's maybe starting to realize that she has power here because she gives him.

[Patrick Hines]

This ultimatum and suddenly he can walk and suddenly he's out of the hospital. And WITSEC says it's okay, but he gets to England. And Kari, I'm like, kari, you're not even believing yourself here. Because she says, well, he gets to England and they, the two of them decided that she needs space. So he gets there and doesn't immediately go to see her. He checks into a hotel.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because of all the drama. They have both decided it's like, no, he convinced you to buy himself more time.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And he's saying, I'm sick. I'm not ready to see you. I want to see you. Can you imagine? It's been something like eight years at this point. They've never met. She's never seen his face in like, other than that one time for in Brighton or whatever. And like, and he's in a hotel down the street, but you can't see him because he's not ready. And she would call him and he would yell at her for pressuring him. And I'm sick and I'm weak and I'm not ready.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine how crazy she feels.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine how much she's questioning her reality. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Beam dream powder is back. I have not been sleeping great lately. And that's why we're so excited to talk about Beams Dream powder, which is a science backed healthy hot cocoa for sleep, which honestly I've been taking for years.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. They have amazing flavors, by the way.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Sea salt caramel brownie batter, vanilla chai. They also have the Beam Dream powder original flavor cinnamon cocoa.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Can we say also that each serving is only 15 calories and 0 grams of sugar. You literally just mix it with hot water or milk or whatever. You use a little frother.

[Patrick Hines]

They give you that, they send you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You froth it up, you have it right before bed. It can get you eight hours of uninterrupted sleep, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And other sleep aids can cause next day grogginess. But Dream contains a powerful all natural breath of reishi, magnesium, L theanine, apigenin and melatonin to help you fall asleep, stay asleep and wake up refreshed.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, it was like the best thing I ever added to my nighttime routine. It's like, have the dream, brush the teeth, go to bed and see ya at 4am because I go to bed at 6.

[Patrick Hines]

And then when you're waking up refreshed and like not hungover, and that's the.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Best part, can we be really clear about that? You just wake up refreshed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You're not groggy, you're not like, oh man, I'm really knocked out. No, no, no, you just slept really well.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I'm so glad they're back. I love talking about the Bean Dream powder because it like, like really works.

[Patrick Hines]

For me the best.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So, fam. Right now, BEAM is offering our listeners early access to their Black Friday sale.

[Patrick Hines]

Dream has been a game changer for us. This is your chance to try it for the lowest cost it's ever been sold at.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Get up to 50% off when you visit shopbeam.com TCO and use code TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

Head over to shopee a m.com TCO and use code tco to get yours before they sell out.

[Julian Pezzoli]

That's shop b eam.com TCO and use code TVO for up to 15. 50% off.

[Patrick Hines]

That's right.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And get your Z's, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Get your Z's and then wake up refreshed.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You sleep alone. You can sound like, so like, he's back home. Days are going by, weeks are going by. No Bobby. Oh, his phone died. Oh, he's tired. Oh, this. Oh that.

[Kari]

So I go to the hotel, I give Bobby's full name and they can't find him. And I say, he's been staying here for a couple of weeks at least. Now there's nobody staying here by this name.

[Patrick Hines]

He's not there.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I mean, I'm screaming at this point because, like, this is unlike Karit, you know, like, for her to finally be like, fuck it, I need answers. I'm going to do this.

[Patrick Hines]

Now she's starting to lose her grip on reality, which is exactly what he wants. Like, he is making her crazy. And I'm not saying that lightly. I'm not saying that as a joke. She is questioning every sense of her reality, and that's exactly what he wants.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's been weeks that he's been in London and hasn't seen her. And so when the hotel people are like, we have nobody here by that name, she goes outside, she's screaming, she's crying. She calls Simran, her cousin, because Simran's been the one who's been like, helping her through all of this. And while she's talking to Simran, she gets a call from Bobby.

[Patrick Hines]

And Bobby's like, no, no, no, no. Oh, my God. I told the hotel not to tell anyone I was here, you know, because of my enemies.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he's so obviously full of shit.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And then he says to her, don't surprise me like that. Give me a couple of days. It's been weeks.

[Patrick Hines]

A couple of days for what?

[Julian Pezzoli]

He's been in London for weeks. And. And he's right there. He's in the building I'm standing in front of, but he won't see me.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's like, okay, if he's not there, she thinks he's at some house that she thinks he has in Kensington.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, she's starting to say he's lying to me. She's finally starting to. It's really dawning on her something is really wrong here.

[Patrick Hines]

So she goes to this house in Kensington. He's not there. Yeah, Everything is falling apart. Because now she's like, okay, he's lying. She thinks that she's caught him in, but she doesn't know exactly what. Like, she's feeling insane because she gets.

[Julian Pezzoli]

To the neighborhood, she's got the address, and she's like, I can't find the house. And she's texting with him and she's like, I'm in the neighborhood, I can't find your house. And he's saying, I can see you. I see you there on the street. I'm just not ready to see you.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, I know what this is. He's with his ex.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And that makes sense to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, he's with Songs. They just had a baby together. Like, he's been stringing her along. He's really been with his ex this whole time? Yes, that's what she thinks. So she goes Google Sanj and finds her phone number and calls Sanj.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So Sanj, remember, is the ex wife who left him when he was like, in the hospital having been shot six times.

[Patrick Hines]

And then they had a baby.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right. And so when Sanj answers the phone.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're, like, happily raising this baby together because Bobby and Karit are picking out clothes for the baby. And then Sanj is posting pictures of this big, happy family. So they are, like, together in a lot of ways.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Right? And so when Sanj answers the phone, she sounded as though she was. She's like, hey, Bobby, is. Is that you? Where are you? As though she was expecting him to call. And this confirms Kari's worst fears that, like, they are in a relationship. They are talking all the time. He's lying to her about everything that's happening. So she doesn't say anything. She hangs up.

[Patrick Hines]

But what does she do? She goes to Sanja's house.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, Sanja's parents house.

[Patrick Hines]

Parents house. And she, like, sees Sanj with the baby.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Now, this is crazy making to me because Sanj and Karl, for years and years, they were friends on Facebook, right? And she sees Sanj with the baby. And Karit says, she walked right in front of my car.

[Kari]

And I remember, like, one bit of me so angry. I want to just turn the engine on and just, like, put my foot down the accelerator, but that's not me. And I was just like. So I was scared. I was so scared.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It was everything I could do to not floor it and run that bitch over.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And for whatever reason, Sanj, I guess eyes on the baby doesn't see her sitting there.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, but this, like, just see something about seeing Sanj in real life with the baby. That came from cheating.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's another situation with Bobby where, like, she's been communicating with her on Facebook all these years, but she's never met her. She's never seen her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but there's something about seeing her where Kurit's like, oh, my God. Like, I can't handle this. She feels like she's losing her mind, so she hires a private investigator.

[Julian Pezzoli]

This is my favorite thing. Like, I love that Karite is 0 to 100.

[Patrick Hines]

And in, like, two seconds.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She gets Bobby's current address, which is two hours away in Brighton, which is.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Like, she said, all I wanted from the private investigator was the. His current address. I thought he was at the hotel. He wasn't there. I thought he was at that house. He said he was there, but I knew it was a lie. Where is he actually? And she gets the address, and she.

[Patrick Hines]

Gets in her car, and she goes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Immediately I am screaming. I am screaming with her in the car.

[Patrick Hines]

And now, this is when Bobby enters the frame and sits on the couch. And you are ready to jump through the screen and strangle this guy. He's sitting there like he did nothing wrong. And I'm like, answer for yourself, you scumbag.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

He sits there, and he kind of like. And he's sitting like, not a care in the world. And I'm like, fucking talk. Let's hear it. And we do. We hear it from his perspective. What happens? Because he takes over the storytelling, which.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I was a little bit like, this is Karit's story. Don't give it to the man. But okay, I want to.

[Patrick Hines]

But also, like, answer for yourself.

[Simran]

Like, I want to.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, let's hear some bullshit. Let's hear what happens, because she pulls.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Up to the driveway. She gets out. She walks through the door, cuts to Bobby. Now it's Bobby's point of view.

[Patrick Hines]

So the doorbell rings. He opens the door, and Bobby's like, I see this woman walking away from my house. Like, down the driveway.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It was very money. Where the plumber rings the doorbell and turns to watch. Two weeks.

[Patrick Hines]

Two weeks.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Like, I'm like, karina, I'm like, you're not gonna wait five minutes to see if somebody answers her? She rings the doorbell, turns and leaves.

[Patrick Hines]

I hear you in there laughing at me, Fielding. I'm in here. Where? In the floor behind the chair.

[Julian Pezzoli]

When he slips into the floor, I thought I was gonna have a heart attack from laughing.

[Patrick Hines]

The Care Bears were here.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God. That is. You know, Tom Hanks doesn't like the movie.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, Tom Hanks. That's the one thing he's wrong about. That can't be true.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's true. I did a little mini deep dive for my other thing, and he. I don't know. He just says it's not that. He thinks it's not that funny.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, well, everyone makes mistakes, and his mistake is not liking the money.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I couldn't agree more.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So Bobby opens the door, and he says. He's like, I see this woman walking away from my house down the driveway. But I'm like, why is she walking away?

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Then they sort of make contact. And then Karit starts walking back towards the house. And then Sage is here.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Can we stop for one second? Because it just has to be said. I know. We don't like this. Everybody in this documentary is so physically attracted Sanj. I mean, it happened with Karit, too. Sanj took my breath away. I could not believe how beautiful she was.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, shut up. I have a story to tell. I'm terrified.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And also, Bobby is sexy as hell.

[Patrick Hines]

So like Sanj, the ex, the mother of his baby. Oh, my God. So Bobby and Sanj are now at the front door. Now they are telling the story.

[Sanj]

She says, hi, Bobby, it's Kirath, my wife. Sanjay is like, bobby, who is this?

[Kari]

And you know, he just looked at me and he said, I have no.

[Sanj]

Idea, no idea who this lady is. I've never spoken to her in my life. The lady looks straight at me. Liar.

[Julian Pezzoli]

She says, what is going on here is just miscommunication across the board.

[Patrick Hines]

But it is. It's wild because Bobby and Sandra are now at the front door and they've never seen Karit before in their entire lives.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Now, can we pause for one second? Because to explain it from Karit's point of view, view every. Her worst fears are being confirmed. Right?

[Patrick Hines]

They're one big happy family.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Bobby is living here with Sanch. He's been playing me this whole fucking time. Oh, my God, I'm such an idiot. From Bobby and Sanja's point of view.

[Patrick Hines]

They'Re like, who is a crazy lady hysterical on our. And she is hysterical because she's been made to be hysterical over the last eight years. So they're like.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And. But then also from Sanja's point of view, she doesn't necessarily believe that Bobby doesn't know who this woman is.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? So let's dive in. Because Korea, like, they're like, who are you? And she's like, elle woods, like, liar. Like throwing chocolate. She's like, this has been going. We are engaged. I have all the messages like, how do you not know me? And Sanj is like, you son of a bitch. Who is she? And everyone's like, Bobby's like, whoa, wait a second.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I want to see your one person musical. Like, this is great. Ladies, please.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, wait, wait a second. Do you think I'm my brother jj, Right?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because this has happened before. We look a lot alike. And remember, little brother J.J. is dangerous. Kurit's cousin Samran, who's like the go between here. And Karit's like, no, I have photos. Like, I know, but what now? It's like, oh, my God. You're Sanj and Bobby. And Karit is like, I know everything about you. I have all of these photos. Like, how does this woman know where they live? And they.

[Julian Pezzoli]

How does she know our names? How does she know our kids names?

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone is like, terrified and as everyone, we're at a fever pitch.

[Kari]

But then my phone rings, and it's Bobby.

[Sanj]

It's my face, but that's not my number. And so he's like, see, that's not me calling you. Somebody's pretending to be me.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm clearly not calling you right now. Like, this is not my phone number.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But Sanj has gone back inside, and Karit thinks it's Sanj calling from inside to just be like, leave my man alone. Or Sanj has been behind this the whole time. No.

[Patrick Hines]

And Bobby's like, okay, someone is pretending to be me.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Karit is now spiraling. Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Like, can you imagine?

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, stop lying to me. I know you know me. You know my cousin Simran. And Bobby's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Simran? Wait, the only Simran I know dated my brother?

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I don't know what you're talking about. So Karit calls, like, in the moment. She's like, fudge you. I'm going to get Simran on the phone right now. Like, I. This is. I've been talking to you for eight years. We're engaged. What the fuck are you talking about? So Kari calls Simran and she's like, simran, I'm with Bobby. He's lying to me. He's saying he doesn't know any of us. I know that that's not true. Brit. Like, please. Karine is feeling insane, and she needs her best friend to, like, confirm that she's not fucking crazy.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So Bobby is like, is that Simran, that girl that used to date my cousin 100 years ago?

[Patrick Hines]

Give me the phone.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Give me the phone.

[Patrick Hines]

So Bobby grabs the phone and he's like, hi, Simran. Like, haven't spoken to you in a long time. This woman is saying all of this crazy shit. Like, do you know her? What's going on? Like, I'm scared for my life. According to Bobby, Simran says on the phone, that's my cousin. She's very confused. She's fudgeing crazy. Put her back on the phone. I'll handle this. This is all misunderstanding. Don't worry about it. Just give her back the phone. It's super cool.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And so Creed gets back on the phone with Simran, and Simran's like, girl, get out of there. Get out of there. Go, go.

[Simran]

You have to run.

[Patrick Hines]

Run, run, run.

[Simran]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Karit leaves. Bobby and Sanj slam the door, lock themselves in. And just like a horror movie. Knock, knock, knock on the door. It's Kari.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know. Again, Karit now is like looking at us and she's. She's like, I heard them unlock the locks. As though I'm the kind of person who's going to kick their door in and like storm in.

[Patrick Hines]

But if you're Sanchin, Bobby, 100%. So she. But this, this is where it's like.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Can you believe what is going on? This is wild.

[Patrick Hines]

This woman, Karit has lost it. And again, it's because of what she was pushed to.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

But this is how crazy she feels and how insane she feels. That like the life she's been living for eight years is real. She was there. It fucking happened to her. What is going on? So she knocks on the door and she turns her sights on Sanj.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Sanj]

She looks at Sanjay and says, I know you're staying at your parents house in London because I've seen you there with your son.

[Kari]

Oh my God. How long has she been watching me for? Did she do that a lot?

[Patrick Hines]

I've been there. I saw you with your son.

[Julian Pezzoli]

With your son.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't lie to me like this. I'm not crazy. Don't you call me crazy. And then she starts talking about their baby. She's calling him by name. She has presents for him.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I always, always considered him to be my stepson. Now this shit is out of a fucking movie.

[Patrick Hines]

So now as parents.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

They don't know her. She knows a lot about them. She's been stalking them. This crazy lady shows up and does know everything about you and your son. This is terrifying.

[Julian Pezzoli]

They call the police. Like we are calling the police right fucking now.

[Patrick Hines]

So Kurit leaves.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And is screaming and crying in the car on the phone with cousin Simran.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Who is like, oh my God, this is so crazy. This is so dangerous. Now Kurit is leaving, bro. She's gone. She's freaking out. She calls Simran. Bobby and Saj call the police.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone is feeling insane. No one can comprehend what just happened.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like what is real? What is real?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Well then it gets even worse because as she's as Creed is on the phone with her cousin Simran screaming and crying. She gets text messages from Bobby who's.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I'm so sorry. I had to give up appearances. Like, oh my God. Like. And now Karina's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like who is fake, Bobby? You are not really Bobby. I was just there. Imagine how crazy.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I can't.

[Patrick Hines]

She was meant to feel. Nothing makes sense. This is a reality that she lived for eight years. And now the man she has been talking to and his wife are saying, we don't know who you are. The twilight zone.

[Julian Pezzoli]

You, you would feel like like, like you wandered into like some other dimension.

[Patrick Hines]

I've had moments in my life where I have been made to feel not this level.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But when you feel crazy, I've said to Mike, can you like touch my arm? I'm real. Yeah, yeah, I'm here.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm a person. And like what I'm saying is real. Am I crazy? Like what the fuck? And I haven't experienced anything close to this. So imagine I know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And she's going through it by herself. She. You know what I mean? Like alone. I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone knows that whoever is texting carrot is not Bobby. Like we all know that.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But she's still feeling insane because who the fudge is Bobby?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Who is Bobby?

[Patrick Hines]

So the next day cousin Simran calls Korea because remember Simran's been like the go between the whole time. She was like bringing present like the T shirt. She saw Bobby in Kenya when he got shot the first time before he got transferred to New York. So Simran's been here the whole time and she's like girl, I talked to Bobby and I have to tell you like Bobby went to the police.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Kari goes well that I'm going to the police.

[Julian Pezzoli]

She's like, I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to the police.

[Patrick Hines]

And Simran's like no, no, no, no, no, don't do that.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Just wait, I'm coming over. Just wait.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's why I'm like, why not Simran?

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Why should Simran. No, but Simran. But like, but like, but why, but why shouldn't she call the cops?

[Simran]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Simran comes over to Karit's house.

[Kari]

She looks at me and she says it was all me. She says I'm Bobby. But I can't quite understand. And I was like calling out names. What about Sanj? What about Yash? What about Rajvir? What about Kiran? What about so and so? She's like it's all me. It was me. It was me. I was all of them.

[Patrick Hines]

All the friends.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

All the cousins, 60 people.

[Patrick Hines]

Every single person Karit was talking to. The messenger, messages, the photos.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

All of it. She has been doing this for eight years. So remember at the top of the episode when Karit couldn't go to Bobby's wedding because of family obligation. That was all manufactured by Simran. So she picked a date that she knew wouldn't work for Karit. So now she can. Kari could say, well, he invited me to the wedding. That has to be real.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

She faked all of that, knowing full well that Kari couldn't go.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She knew her parents wanted to meet him, so she made that Facebook group with all the cousins to hold everybody over. She did all of it, the whole.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Thing with the dad. Because everyone is saying, if the dad had known that they were engaged, have gone to Kenya to meet Bobby's family. And that was why Simran had to invent that. Bobby saying to the mom, don't tell your husband. I want to introduce myself in person. Let me do this the right way. Don't tell him anything.

[Patrick Hines]

The fact that this was the cousin that she confided in.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Makes it 1 million times worse. It couldn't have been.

[Julian Pezzoli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Unless it was her own mother.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But other than that, this is the worst person who could have done this for her for eight.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And remember, this was an intimate relationship.

[Patrick Hines]

It was intimate. So Simran. Well, Simran has absolutely nothing to say. No explanation to why she would do this. But she messages Bobby and she goes, it was basically me. No, Simran, it was absolutely you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know why I did it. I need counseling. Bobby is now reading from a message. Like in the documentary. He's reading a message from Simran.

[Sanj]

She goes on to say, I need counseling to help me work through it all. I'm sorry for everything. If you would be willing to deal with it without the police.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Come on.

[Sanj]

I respond, I will not be hiding anything from the police. And thank you for coming clean. Good luck.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Bobby's like, I'm telling the police everything. And now we love Bobby. How fast that changes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like when we all became East D Lions fans and immediately hated the Panthers. Anybody? Friday Night Lights? No. Great. But immediately I was like, bobby, you better answer for yourself. And now I'm like, team Bobby.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know, I know. And he says, I will not be. He replies to Simran, I will not be hiding anything from the police. Thank you for coming clean and good luck.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Screenshot. Yeah, Block, whatever.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Now the Brighton police call Karit and they're like, simran confessed to Bobby. You've been the victim of a crime. You need to go to your local police and report this. She goes to the police. The police want nothing to do with her.

[Patrick Hines]

She's told she's not a victim. The only real victims are Bobby and Sanj. And she's not a victim and creates like, hard. Disagree.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because there is at the very least a major consent issue here.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Simran did not have creates consent to do anything. Also, why is it so sexual when they're cousins?

[Julian Pezzoli]

I mean, that is insane to me.

[Patrick Hines]

It is deception. It is manipulation. It was also an abusive relationship.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It was not a good relationship. There was coercive control as far as the fucking eye could see.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So Creed says I eventually had to take matters into my own hands. And thank God she did, because she starts gathering all the evidence. So all the messages and all the WhatsApp images. She's downloading everything.

[Kari]

But I'm beginning to see profiles disappear. Simran created them all. She's making them disappear. And that's tampering with evidence.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's tampering with evidence.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So she is just finding. She's told there's no crime here. She's like, trying to find evidence of crimes and making this big. These spreadsheets and these folders.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Literally hundreds of thousands of messages.

[Patrick Hines]

And she organized everything. The fake profiles she cross referenced with the real profile spreadsheets. Like, 10 years of content.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And now, like, here's a note that I learned today. So Simran really did date little brother jj.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they broke up years ago. But there's a lot more to the JJ stuff. Tell me a lot more. So this. This whole thing started when Simran was catfishing Carrot as a fake jj.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God. Really?

[Patrick Hines]

Her ex boyfriend and Bobby's brother.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Simran and real JJ break up. After that, fake JJ reaches out to Carrot for support. Soon after that, fake JJ dies. Dies from an allergic reaction. Real JJ is alive and well.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Fake Bobby. Simran, as Bobby reaches out to curate, and he's like, oh, my God, we're both grieving. Thanks so much for being so nice to my little brother. So Simran was fake jj?

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Then she kills off fake jj, and then she enters as Bobby. And now Kieran and Bobby are, like, grieving together. That's how they got in touch.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So but for all the 10 years that they were in a relationship in the fake world, JJ's dead.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God. Which is why when he says to her on his front porch, you might be thinking, I'm my little brother jj, she finds out in that moment that he's not dead.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

But Netflix kind of makes it seem like, oh, she kind of. I kind of knew my brother. No, no, no. She first. Simran first catfished Carrot as jj. And then fake Bobby and Carrot started talking as like grieving friends.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's not like there's. It goes so much deeper than.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I learned today. And apparently Simran did the same thing to real JJ and she was using some of the same profiles in both scams. So. Because it's all the same people, it's all the same family. So the scams were like supporting each other.

[Julian Pezzoli]

My question for the people who do this, how do you keep track of the lies? How do you keep track of the lies? I mean, eventually you don't imagine being a person with multiple mult. Multiple profiles on a website, trying to keep track of all the profiles.

[Patrick Hines]

What, hers and losers. But like, eventually, I mean, we're living it. You can't.

[Simran]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't keep it up forever.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But it is truly diabolical. Like some of the people are real. And then she'd make duplicate profiles. Some of the people she totally made up, like, some of them would be main characters, some of them are supporting characters. And then commenting on the Main characters posts 60 fake profiles. And I'm thinking, like, how did none of the real people in this small, tight knit community get wise to this? Especially Facebook's like, people you may know well, because.

[Julian Pezzoli]

So another thing that we find out.

[Kari]

Is that in pictures sent to me, Bobby's phone was wearing clothes that we'd picked together. Unbeknown at the time, to me, those baby photos already existed on the real Bobby's Facebook page. Somehow she had reverse engineered it to lead me to pick those clothes.

[Patrick Hines]

Simran was reverse engineering it.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So she'd send her a bunch of options of clothes that she knows the baby already has.

[Simran]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Make Carrot think that she was an active participant. And then the proof would be a photo from three weeks ago.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That Simran knew she already had.

[Julian Pezzoli]

It's just wild.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just like, it's intricate, it's organized, it's elaborate, it's deliberate, it's evil, it's mean, it's crazy. Like, I just have so many questions about how she pulled this off.

[Julian Pezzoli]

But the big question the family has is why it's so cruel.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you know your cousin and like that's when it breaks your heart. When Kari was like just knowing how much she wanted to be a mom and then Bobby cheats on her and now his ex wife is a mom.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

When she like confided in him about how much she wanted to be a mom. Like Sarah is So cruel, so cruel.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And like Kirit is like the cool older cousin that loved all the cousins, wanted to take care of everybody. So we learned in 2020 that Kira took civil action against Simran after nine years.

[Patrick Hines]

She was catfished for nine years.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, yeah. And she says Kiera was paid compensation by Simran and received a private apology from her in 2021. But this is wild because we're back with Bobby and Bobby describes getting a huge F from Kierat's lawyer with all the information about the fake Bobby and Bobby looks at us, real Bobby looks at us and he's like, all of these pictures show me living this like fabulous lifestyle, drinking and having.

[Sanj]

He's like, but we're just a normal family with a very ordinary lifestyle. That moment was even more shocking than the morning that Simran confessed.

[Julian Pezzoli]

This is not who I am at all.

[Patrick Hines]

It was probably pictures from his wedding.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And like vacation, you know, that he.

[Patrick Hines]

That she was just spreading out over time or photoshopping it or doing whatever. But we learned that at the time of making this film, Simran has not been charged or prosecuted by police. Carrot continues to raise awareness about the lack of legal frameworks to secure justice.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And also images of Simran have been represented by an actor.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, yeah. And Kira is now 44 years old and she says, I'm doing my utmost to get my life to where it should be. Will I ever be a mom at my age? Now it's a massive question mark.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really fudgeing cruel. And like Simran, they say, was offered the opportunity to sit down and speak and she declined. And she said that this matter involves events that began when she was a schoolgirl.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

No details on that. She considers it a private matter. She considers it a private matter and strongly objects to what she describes as, quote, numerous unfounded and damaging accusations.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Like, Simran, you're a sick fucking. You need real fucking help.

[Patrick Hines]

She was doing this to jj. She was doing like that started as a school girl. She was doing this to her classmates. Like she has been doing this her entire life.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Where are someone's parents? Like, what are you doing about this?

[Patrick Hines]

Apparently she's living at home with them and they totally enable her. She was like the VP of Barclays for a while. Or like she had like a high profile. This is on the podcast. She had like a high profile job that she no longer has anymore.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh my.

[Patrick Hines]

But she has like total. She's a ton of money and her parents are just like, well whatever. Like no one is really holding her accountable. And, like, we need to adapt to 2024. Like, there need to be laws against it. Like, the Internet can't just be this lawless swamp anymore.

[Simran]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, we can't just do this.

[Julian Pezzoli]

And we. I think that we as a public also need to be a little bit less naive. I'm not blaming the victim, but, like, when we get into the witness protection situation, like, that's the first big red flag. Like, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

And also, stop pressuring women I know to get married and have babies. Like, let them come to that conclusion on their own to forcing them. Stop saying that we're fucking useless if we don't have kids. Yeah, Stop saying that we're nobody if we're single. Like, fuck off.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Stop seeing them at the kids table at weddings if they're single.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you out of your mind?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Can you imagine?

[Patrick Hines]

Also, kids table at a wedding. No, thank you.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God, girl, we did sweet Bobby by the skin of our teeth. We got out of that one alive. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Remember when we hated Bobby and then we were like, hey, Bobby, I know.

[Julian Pezzoli]

We just turned on a dime there, fam. Join the Facebook group if you want to hang out with us more. It's the True Crime obsessed podcast discussion group. We've got almost 60,000 people in there.

[Patrick Hines]

And I know you have opinions on this.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God. We want to hear them all. Get in there and tell us what you think about. Sweet, sweet Bobby. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. And you know what, Crete? Get that job. Like, just, like, live your life still.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, good stuff will find you. Just be. You know what I mean?

[Julian Pezzoli]

Never too late to do whatever you wants.

[Patrick Hines]

And don't worry about the stupid societal pressure. I'll write you a note.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Yeah, exactly. What are we doing next, girl?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. Worst roommate ever Season 2 EP1 My BFF tried to kill Me. You know what?

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

We really. You don't know anybody.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I know we don't know anyone.

[Patrick Hines]

My BFF Tried to Kill me is the title of the thing that we're covering.

[Julian Pezzoli]

We don't know. You're right. We don't know anybody.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't know anyone.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I don't trust the nobody.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't trust the nobody.

[Julian Pezzoli]

All right, well, stay tuned for the trailer for that fam. And we love you.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. Please stay safe out there.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Please do.

[Patrick Hines]

My God.

[Julian Pezzoli]

Oh, my God. All right, bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye.

[Julian Pezzoli]

I don't trust it.

[Patrick Hines]

A bad. I really have a hard time believing that the person that I've known for 25 years, my best friend and a roommate could do what she did. But it was diabolical. It was evil. It was plotted and planned so perfectly. She found joy in tormenting me. I don't think I was human to her. I think if I had died, she would have sat in this house with my child, and I don't think she would have ever thought of it again.