403: Worst Roommate Ever: My BFF Tried To Kill Me

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed - Episode 403: "Worst Roommate Ever: My BFF Tried To Kill Me"

Introduction

In Episode 403 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Worst Roommate Ever: My BFF Tried To Kill Me," hosts Patrick Hines and Jillian Bezvalli delve deep into a harrowing true crime story that intertwines themes of friendship, betrayal, and manipulation. Released on November 26, 2024, this episode provides a comprehensive and engaging recount of a toxic roommate relationship gone dangerously wrong, all while maintaining the podcast's signature blend of humor, sass, and heartfelt commentary.

Background: Rachel and Janie's Friendship

The episode centers around Rachel, a dedicated paramedic, and her roommate Janie, who was initially perceived as a supportive friend. Their friendship began in 1995 when Rachel, at 22, met Janie, who was four years her senior. Despite Janie's seemingly sweet and introverted nature, the relationship soon revealed darker undercurrents.

Jillian Bezvalli [02:10]: "She was a very nice person. Very sweet, a little bit shy."

However, as the story unfolds, it's evident that Janie's control over Rachel becomes increasingly suffocating, setting the stage for the ensuing drama.

The Descent into Toxicity

Rachel, recovering from a divorce and dealing with chronic back issues, moves back with her parents and enters into a roommate arrangement with Janie. Initially, Janie's management of finances and caregiving seems beneficial, especially as Rachel struggles with her health and a new child, Ryder. However, Janie's actions quickly cross boundaries of support into manipulation and control.

Patrick Hines [05:10]: "She’s like a controlling nightmare. Manipulative, like ego."

Janie’s involvement becomes invasive as she starts making decisions about Rachel’s finances and personal life, ostensibly to help but effectively undermining Rachel’s autonomy.

Attempts on Rachel's Life

As Rachel endures multiple back and neck surgeries between 2015 and 2018, Janie's control intensifies. Rachel becomes increasingly dependent on Janie for medication management and daily care, which Janie exploits to manipulate and threaten Rachel's well-being.

Jillian Bezvalli [25:07]: "Janie was trying to kill me six times over the course of one year."

Janie's efforts to destabilize Rachel culminate in multiple attempts to harm her, including administering unnecessary insulin injections and facilitating severe infections like MRSA. These actions are meticulously planned to discredit Rachel and wrest custody of Ryder.

Custody Battle and Legal Intrigue

In January 2018, Janie sues for custody of Ryder, leveraging her role as Ryder’s primary caregiver. Rachel is blindsided by this legal maneuver, especially since she was unaware of Janie's manipulative tactics.

Patrick Hines [40:20]: "She had to leave because Janie had custody of Ryder."

Despite Rachel’s efforts to regain custody and assert her rights, Janie's manipulations, including planting evidence and orchestrating false medical claims, create significant obstacles. The situation spirals further when protective orders are filed against Rachel, isolating her from potential support systems.

FBI Intervention and Janie's Arrest

By December 2019, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) becomes involved after uncovering Janie's attempts to acquire toxic biological agents from the dark web. Their investigation reveals Janie's calculated attempts to eliminate Rachel through biological weapons, aiming to secure sole custody of Ryder without suspicion.

Jillian Bezvalli [66:02]: "She ordered bacteria from the dark web to kill Rachel."

The FBI orchestrates a sting operation, presenting Janie with a fake biological weapon ("versa") to catch her in the act. Janie's arrest is swift, and she faces charges of aggravated abuse of a vulnerable adult, attempted abuse of a vulnerable child, and attempted acquisition of a biological weapon. In August 2020, Janie is convicted on all counts and sentenced to 25 months in prison.

Aftermath and Release

Despite the gravity of her crimes, Janie's sentence is relatively lenient, leading to her parole in January 2022. The episode concludes with Janie's release, leaving Rachel and her son Ryder vulnerable once again. The unresolved tension highlights the lingering threats and the challenges Rachel faces in rebuilding her life post-conviction.

Patrick Hines [73:24]: "She walks among us. That's how it ends."

Insights and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Patrick and Jillian emphasize the complexities of abusive relationships, especially when intertwined with caregiving roles. They discuss the psychological manipulation Janie exerted over Rachel, making it difficult for Rachel to recognize the abuse until it became life-threatening.

Patrick Hines [18:03]: "These episodes serve as a wake-up call to recognize and address abusive dynamics in friendships and caregiving relationships."

The hosts also reflect on the importance of external support systems and the barriers victims face in seeking help, especially when dependent on their abusers for essential needs.

Conclusion

Episode 403 of True Crime Obsessed meticulously unpacks a disturbing case of friendship turned fatal, underscoring the insidious nature of manipulation and control. By weaving in personal anecdotes, expert commentary, and critical analysis, Patrick and Jillian offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the events, encouraging vigilance and support for those in similar precarious situations.

Notable Quotes

• Jillian Bezvalli [04:06]: "I could not understand why Rachel tolerated anything. It’s the beginning of a really messed up dynamic."
• Patrick Hines [13:54]: "Janie just sounds like a fucking nightmare."
• Rachel [25:35]: "Ryder's first words were songs."
• Jillian Bezvalli [57:12]: "If you met someone and in two seconds, your first meeting, they're screaming, you'd never see this person again. But if you have a long dynamic, you make excuses."

Key Timestamps

• 00:02 - Announcement of Patrick's tour.
• 03:07 - Introduction to the main story: Rachel and Janie.
• 10:22 - Details of Janie's manipulative behavior.
• 25:07 - Rachel discusses Janie's attempts to harm her.
• 40:20 - Custody battle escalates.
• 66:02 - FBI uncovers Janie's dark web activities.
• 73:24 - Conclusion with Janie's release.

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a poignant reminder of the complexities surrounding true crime narratives and the thin line between support and control in relationships. True Crime Obsessed successfully captures the emotional turmoil and systemic failures that victims like Rachel endure, making it a must-listen for true crime enthusiasts seeking depth and empathy in their storytelling.

Transcript

[Patrick Hines]

Hey, fam. Patrick here. Before we get to the show, I've got a big announcement. Everyone, guess what? I'm going back on tour. So the point of this tour is for me to get to see all of you in person and for you all to meet TCO Fam in your area. The tour is a storytelling event that turns into a party. So for the first part of the evening, I'm going to tell you a story about a disastrously hilarious evening I spent with Golden Girls icon herself, Bea Arthur. It was a disaster because I was obsessed with her and. And she couldn't stand me, but she was stuck with me for the entire evening. She drank, she sang, she thought my name was Peter. And because I'm Extra Fam, we've brought in the incredible Bea Arthur impersonator, Jason B. Schmidt, who'll be appearing via video to play the role of Bea Arthur from beyond the grave, giving her take on this whole ridiculous situation. It's wild and hilarious and very similar to the book party tour I did last year, except this time I've got the story fully memorized. The story part lasts a little bit less than an hour, and then we'll all go to the venue bar. We've got the venue to ourselves for the entire night. It's a cash bar where we'll drink, we'll mix and mingle. I'll get to meet every last one of you, and you all will get to meet fellow TCO Fam in your area. For the first leg of this tour, I'll be coming to Seattle for opening night, and then Los Angeles, Denver, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, New Orleans and Kansas City, with many more cities to be announced soon. Tickets go on sale next Monday, December 2nd. And these venues are. Are super small. Most of them have just about 100 seats, so it's gonna sell fast. It's gonna be a super fun and intimate evening, and I hope you'll come and see me. Tickets will be [e-mail] and that's all you need to know for now. All right, fam, we love you. And now to the show. Can I ask you a question?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Does it ever cease to amaze you? No.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Everyone's fucking. You can't trust anybody I don't trust. This is insane. This is all insane.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

20 years down the drain. Ridic.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi. Jillian Bezvalli.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey, fam. If you want more GP and me, join us over there on the Patreon. Over 400 full ad free bonus episodes to download and binge the second you sign up. What do we got? What are some of the highlights?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Love has won the cult of mother gods.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah, I was thinking about that the other day. That one was wild.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It was really crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

They transported her body across six state lines.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Colloidal silver. Don't do it.

[Patrick Hines]

She turned blue.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Don't do it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's really bad.

[Patrick Hines]

What else we got?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, we did other things.

[Patrick Hines]

The Jinx season, Season two of the Jinx. Oh, Natalia Grace. That one was wild.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I remember that one.

[Patrick Hines]

Season one, season two of Natalia Grace. Except we did them two at a time. Like a staircase you don't want to go.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Just get it the hell over with.

[Patrick Hines]

We also do ad free versions of these episodes. There's the hero belt tier where we make special episodes just for them. The holiday calendar. Now is a great time to update the hero bell. You get the holiday calendar. It's so much fun. We do drag bingo once a month as well. We're doing our Christmas drag bingo, I believe. Mid December. Can't remember the date. On the 12th, maybe.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I don't know. I don't know either.

[Patrick Hines]

Me either. What are we talking about today, Greg?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

All right, so this is that show. Worst Roommate ever on Netflix Season two, Episode one. My BFF tried to kill me.

[Rachel]

I was happy. Bryder loved it here. But seeing it, it just makes me angry. I really have a hard time believing that the person that I've known for 25 years, my best friend and a roommate, could do what she did. But it was diabolical. It was evil. It was plotted and planned so perfectly. She found joy in tormenting me. I don't think I was human to her. I think if I had died, she would have sat in this house with my child. And I told think she would have ever thought of it again?

[Patrick Hines]

Can we start by saying that this is a really good series? Like it's really, really well made.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I think worst X ever too, because it's all like. It's so victim focused.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. I will say we were talking about this before we started. I think there's a fair amount of information that gets left out of this one.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I agree.

[Patrick Hines]

The story's interesting, the characters are compelling and it's well made. But I'm like. A little more information would go along.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, I think there's stuff where. I mean, I'm overwhelmed by the stuff we do know, but I definitely have questions.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, we meet Rach. We're in Salt Lake City, Utah. Quick shout out to the Salt Lake City Facebook group.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Hey, slc.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Suz. Hi, everyone.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Hi, everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

They're doing a friendsgiving. I'm so jealous.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, cute. I love that.

[Patrick Hines]

But Rachel tells us she met Janie in 1995. Rachel was 22. Janie was four years older than her. If you're doing the math on that, that makes Janie 26.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Janie was great. Like they always are at first.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. I mean, right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I hated Janie on site. If I may. She's a fucking drip. She's an annoying. She's a lot of work.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, right, because Rachel describes her as.

[Rachel]

She was a very nice person. Very sweet, a little bit shy.

[Patrick Hines]

Ish.

[Rachel]

And introverted. When we met and we started hanging out socially, I had gone through a divorce and moved back to my parents home.

[Patrick Hines]

A little introverted? No, she's like a controlling nightmare. Manipulative, like ego.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Drip.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, drip. She's a herb.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But Rach. Total fucking herb. But herb is even. Yeah, she's like. Herbs are usually pretty low key, weirdly. You know what I mean? Like Mark Vicente's a herb. Remember him from the vow?

[Patrick Hines]

That was like the most round. Yes, I did. I love it.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

He's such a herb, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Give me like one more example of a herb.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Jeffrey, again from the Vow superherb.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes I think about the people dancing outside of his cell. That they still do it to this day.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

The dad from Natalia Grace, even though he's at 100 all the time, he's definitely a fucking herb. But Rachel, our victim, was really going through it. She's 22 years old, going through a divorce. She moves back in with her parents. She's just like trying to get back on her feet.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's almost as though Jamie noticed that there was a woman who had a lot of like drama and trauma in her life and was at a low point and swooped in to be her best friend.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That's exactly what happened. But before we get there, Richard is Rachel's father. Yeah, they were apparently close as Rachel was growing up. Rachel is the sixth of seven kids.

[Patrick Hines]

She comes from a too many kids.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Huge family, too many kids.

[Patrick Hines]

I know a lot of you, a lot of you out there have that many children. And I'm sure you are absolutely fucking nailing it and you love it and you are happy and that is awesome. I have one. I am exhausted all the time. There's a lot of dramatics somewhere.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Steve's like, yeah, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

He's got two. I only have one. He's got Two, three.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

He's got three. He has golden.

[Patrick Hines]

That's true. But, you know, the dad is telling us Rachel's first husband was quite opinionated.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

He wanted things done his way.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think it was a bad.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Start for her, and I think that's why it ended so quickly. It was a bad start for her. And I'm like, richard, the word's abusive.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. He wanted things done his way.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And then I'm like, yeah, right. But am I part of the problem? Like, not everything is trauma and abuse and narcissists. But it made me go, like, I don't like the words that are being used.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Opinionated. Wanted things done. I just made a note here, like, I wonder how I will handle it if the person that Daisy ends up with is an asshole. Like, what? Like, that is a fucking relationship. Not that I would ever let anything kill my relationship with Daisy, but, like, that would make it really hard.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, it is hard.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it's hard. That's why I was so awesome. You're welcome. Tipton.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey. Hey. Can I get an amen or crickets?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Crickets.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm at least fun to be around, right, Julie?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, the first marriage ended quickly, thank God.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. Rachel says she was dealing with the lasting emotional effects of leaving a marriage like that. And that's when she meets Janie. And Rachel says something where it's like, oh, I see.

[Patrick Hines]

I have the note right here. I'm like, how these sick fucking people can just tell.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She says, I was so used to being constantly criticized, and Janie didn't judge me. I finally found someone who's letting me be me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Which is so, like, sad that that's like, oh, that's. Here's exactly what happened. Like, we can trace it back to that very much.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's right, because these people who prey on people like Rachel can just tell, you know? And sometimes I think those people don't even know they're doing it. They're just terrible people. And they don't even know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I think so, too. I think they see. I mean, I definitely think there was something in Rachel that Janie really wanted to be around. Like, I think she really liked her. Again, I don't know if we're at 100. Like, oh, I don't know a lot over here. Like, when we're at the end of this, I don't know if this is what Janie always wanted, but I like, anyway. Travel down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

Back again, girl. Uncommon Goods is back. We're all obsessed.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Steve.

[Patrick Hines]

Bought every single piece of drag bingo prizery from Uncommon Goods for this last.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

The amount of texts I'm getting saying, oh, where has Uncommon Goods been? Because it is the season and everyone is looking for gifts. And sometimes people are hard to buy for, or sometimes it's like, what do you get for the person who has everything? Go to Uncommon Goods because you're getting cool stuff, but you're also supporting artists and small independent businesses.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The thing about Uncommon Goods, they look for products that are high quality, unique, and often handmade in the US They've got the most meaningful out of the ordinary gifts anywhere. They even have gifts you can personalize.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

They have so many. You can personalize. You can personalize glasses if someone's into barware. You can also get, like, newspapers from the day you were born. Like that kind of personal stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, yes. I like their book stuff. I like that. I got a little book nook thing for Steve for Christmas.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

They have really good cocktail books. They also have really good, like, interesting history books and, like, animal books. I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

Everybody wants a unique gift. Go there. So in family also, with every purchase you make at Uncommon Goods, they give back a dollar to a nonprofit partner of your choice.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

They've donated more than $3 million to date.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like working with Uncommon Goods feels good. It feels good. So to get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com TCO that's UncommonGoods.com.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

TCO for 15% off.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Fam. Uncommon Goods were all out of the.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Ordinary and just, like, all year round, too. Yeah, I just want to hit them.

[Patrick Hines]

Birthdays, holidays, you just want something fun for yourself.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Get invited to somebody's house. Oh, what am I gonna go? Go on Common Gods, you'll figure it out.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel and Janie become roommates.

[Rachel]

I lived at home with my parents, but was hoping to get out. And she had lived in an apartment by herself that had gotten broken into and she didn't wanna live alone. We'd only known each other a couple months, but we just looked at each other and, okay, there's the solution.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

They only knew each other for a few months, but this seemed like a great idea for both of them. Like, at least for now to kind of get back on track.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, right away, Rachel is saying, like, when I first moved in, she said she felt very safe.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

1995, they move in.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And they'd never, like, prime Lilith Fair years. I would at least like to know they Went to Lilafayres, Lilith. You know what I mean? Three in a row. I went to.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I want, like, Tori, even, like, Liz Fair. Did you playlist?

[Patrick Hines]

Did you go to Lilith Fair?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I never went to Lilith Fair.

[Patrick Hines]

There was some time. Yeah. It was so empowering for women because it was literally. There were no men's restrooms. It was like. It was all women. And you, you would just like. It was. Lilith Fair was the most amazing, like, lady retreat you can imagine for three hours.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like the ERAs tour.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, totally.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Going there and being like, wow, I feel safe here. It's like I'm around 70,000 people and I feel.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, because it's all.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

What is this?

[Patrick Hines]

It's like cool ladies and awesome dads. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I don't think I saw a man for miles. It was heaven.

[Patrick Hines]

Have you been seeing all of the tiktoks of Taylor's security, getting her into the jets game or whatever?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She interacts with them and said, wait.

[Patrick Hines]

I was telling this to Steve. She's like, back up, back up, back up. And she walks up, back up, please. It was amazing.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And that was to security, not the paps.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, it was absolutely incredible.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Anyway, so 1995, they move in. Janie, major red flag, number one.

[Rachel]

Her strengths were the finances, making sure bills were paid. You know, we had my money and her money, but she still made decisions about what I did with my money and what I bought. And so she just seemed so adult to me.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She was also telling Rachel how to spend her own money. Because Janie will learn is, quote the adult.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And she really and, like, weirdly played into that role. And.

[Patrick Hines]

No, the thing about it is that, like, she's four years older. You can sort of understand an older sister dynamic. Rachel has an awesome older sister. Her name is Bette. She's here. So it's not like she needed an older sister. But they were like, they definitely provided things for each other. So Rachel sort of needed that sort of guidance, especially living on her own for the first time. Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But unless and until they might be evicted because of Rachel's frivolous spending. Stay out of it, Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because I have that note too. Like, to immediately, none of your business. Take control of the finances is so culty.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Counting her drinks, counting her dollars. Oh, you sure you need that? Yes, I do.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Leave me alone.

[Patrick Hines]

No, we don't like Janie.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She just sounds like a fucking nightmare. Because then it was like, Rachel was the fun one, and she, like, taught Janie how to have fun and it's like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, this is another thing we were talking about off mic, that Rachel tells a story that sometimes they would go to bars. Like, Janie never went out. And so Rachel's bringing Janie to bars. And sometimes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Cause Rachel has all the friends and, like, knows all the places to go, right?

[Patrick Hines]

And sometimes they would get there, and Rachel's like. We would play this game where I pretended not to speak English and she was my interpreter. And I'm like, rachel, do you not hear how controlling that is? Literally her making it so you can't talk to anybody else at the bar, right?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And she's navigating the entire.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Like, it's like. And Rachel doesn't even see it. It's so manipulative and so controlling.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And it's also fucking weird.

[Patrick Hines]

It is weird.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like, it's also just a weird thing.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not a fun game, but it's like. I just want to say that, like, Rachel is, in my opinion, and what the hell do I know? But she's particularly susceptible to this because she's nice and sweet and to the bitter end of this fucking episode in a way that makes me want to scream my head off. She wants to the best in people and blame herself when people are bad to her. It's. I mean, it makes me really sad for her. But if everyone could just be nice, we wouldn't have to worry about it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It would be nice if, like, Janie was nice, too.

[Patrick Hines]

But that's what I mean.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Does Rachel have to do all that funny? No.

[Patrick Hines]

What I'm saying is, like, there were only nice people in the world.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That's what I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Then the Rachel's would thrive.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I'm agreeing with you. It's like Rachel has to do all of it. Great.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So, but Janie starts now, like, really attaching herself to Rachel. Now she's talking like her. She's dressing like her really wanted to be her. And I'm like, here we.

[Patrick Hines]

And we meet Robin, who's Rachel's friend, and Robin, you know, Robin is now like, a doctor. And at the time, she was like, you know, doing her rotations or whatever.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

At the emergency department. I'm like, all right, genius.

[Patrick Hines]

Save lives. And she met Rachel because Rachel was an emt, which is like, the coolest fucking thing. So, like, you know, Robin's like, we would always befriend the EMTs who, like, dropped off the people at the emergency room. But, you know, Robin is saying that they would go out and, like, Rachel had this fabulous life. She's young and beautiful and dating and life of the party. But, like, right away, Robin and the rest of the friends are noticing that if Rachel got any. Any attention from men, from women, from anybody who wanted to be in her orbit, who wasn't Janie, Janie would immediately just, like, shut down, freak out, get off, ruin the night.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. She, like. She didn't like that Rachel had a great time with Fred. She didn't like that Rachel was getting asked to dance. She didn't like that Rachel loved her job. She didn't like. Do you like Rachel? No. Because Janie is the. Is a certified fucking hater.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Janie is the biggest hater. And she hates Rachel because she. She wants to be Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So instead of just admiring Rachel and trying to, like, wow, we really can balance each other out. We're the odd couple. How? Cut. Blah, blah, blah. She has to, like, destroy Rachel because she can't be Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So that's where we are.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So 1996. Rachel meets a guy. He's, quote, dreamy, she's head over heels. Janie hates him immediately.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And, like, this is where things start to get really crazy. Rachel tells the story. Like, we'd be watching a movie upstairs in my room, and she'd stand at.

[Rachel]

The bottom of the stairs and scream at the top of her lungs at me about how loud the movie was. It was embarrassing, but her excuse was always, I'm protective of you because he seems like he's a player, screaming up.

[Patrick Hines]

The stairs about how loud the move just to ruin the night.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But she's the adult, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She's the adult. And all the money has to be in her name. She's the adult in the room, and yet she's throwing a temper tantrum.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, I gotta tell you, and this is not because I'm an adult now, the first time anybody did that to me, I would be fucking out of there. This is the beginning of. I do not understand why Rachel tolerated anything.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But you would. I think because of their dynamic. They lived together. They really helped each other out. A certain time they met, met at a certain place. Like, if you really think about it like that, if someone. If you met someone.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm definitely the kind of person who has made excuses for people who've done horrible things.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

If you met this person and in two seconds, your first meeting, and they're screaming at the bottom of the stairs, you'd be like, I'm never seeing this person again. But if you have, it depends on how you met.

[Patrick Hines]

No, you're absolutely right. You're right. Because when you have a dynamic with a person that you care about and they are, they are acting fucking weird.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Doesn't matter.

[Patrick Hines]

You make excuses and you want, you want to stay in it for whatever reason.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

For whatever reason could be a million reasons. So Janie would turn it around, like she's concerned for Rachel. Oh, I'm protecting her. This guy suc. And then Janie would make Rachel feel guilty for being upset at Jamie's truly unhinged behavior.

[Patrick Hines]

Do you ever feel like maybe. Yeah, I'm sure. But do you ever feel like maybe this will happen less now that there's all these documentaries?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

You know, I hope because back in.

[Patrick Hines]

This time, 1995, like these documentaries didn't exist. People weren't talking about how crazy this behavior really is.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And the thing is it get. A lot of times it gets to the point where an episode of a documentary is made about it because I think so many times the Rachel's in the room are like, that's weird. But is it weird enough to mention.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And then that times a million. And now we're here. So I do wonder if people are seeing, like, maybe I should tell someone about this.

[Patrick Hines]

And especially because we learned that Rachel and Janie both are like true crime girlies. They love it. Like they would have watched Worst Roommate ever and Rachel would be eyeing her next to her, like as JD's literally.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Taking notes, which we will get to in a moment. But yeah, I hope that it makes people think in a friendship or any kind of dynamic that you have kind of being like, oh, well, it's one.

[Patrick Hines]

Of the good things that we can get out of this genre is that the more we talk about this, the more like people should recognize this shit is fucking weird. I'm listening. I'm obsessed with this podcast called Betrayal now, which is all about these stories of like, women and men surviving these horrendous relationships and like the, you know, the warning signs that were missed and whatever.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And I think it's very easy to say which Rachel will say later. Like she. But she would never. But like, but she would never do that because you. The Rachel's would never do that. So it's like, I've known this person for 20 years. She would never do this. Like, right? Yes, she will.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like, I'm sorry, everyone. Like, I'm in. I'm a real fucking cynic today. But yeah, they will also. They will hurt you and they will disappoint you.

[Patrick Hines]

There are two seasons of this show. There's, like, 100 episodes of betrayal. This kind of extreme abuse is not all that unusual.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Not at all. Because it never starts like that, right?

[Patrick Hines]

And people probably feel very isolated. They feel like it's only ever happening to me. Nobody's going to believe me. Like, by design, right? Feel less alone. Know that this happens a lot.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It happens all the time. Like, it doesn't start at the end. It starts with that really weird gig game with the translation at the bar.

[Patrick Hines]

And all of a sudden, she's running your finances, but teaching you how to run your finances.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because I actually was in a bad place, and she really is helping me out. And they, like, browbeat you and they beat you the fuck down until you're like, they're right. I'm worthless without them.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And now we're fucking here, right? So aren't you glad you pressed play today? Dear listener?

[Patrick Hines]

Do you. Are. Is everything okay? Do you want to see anything?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I'm not yelling at you. I'm yelling at the thing now. And this, like, I get it. But it also didn't help matters.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I'm going to say?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

What?

[Patrick Hines]

Leave the lesbians out of it.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I initially thought that it an instance of unrequited love or some sort of jilting of someone who wanted to be in a romantic relationship with her best friend. Because all of Rachel's friends think Janie's in love with her, right?

[Patrick Hines]

And that is a very obvious conclusion to jump to that I really do think is not true. I really don't think there is that. I think that she wants to control her or be her. It feels much more single white female Y to me than it feels like I want. Like, I'm in love with you and I can't have you because I don't know that it would have been off the table, to be honest.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

The friends are like, she's jealous of everyone. She wants you all to herself. So it kind of makes sense to the friends to be like, is there, like, something going on?

[Patrick Hines]

It's also 1995 again. We weren't talking about these kinds of, like, people just thought, like, oh, she must just be in love with you, you know? And, like, Yeah, I mean, I can see how that makes sense. But Rachel here is adamant that that is not the case.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No, she says it's not the case. But Janie would also, like, scream at Rachel in front of these friends and call her a whore, like. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, Tell me again that Janie's the adult in the room.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know. And Rachel would say to do you just not like me? Like, you are horrible to me. Do you just not like me? And Janie would respond, you're my family. I just don't want to lose you.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right. It would always become about that. And then it's very, like, almost to me. It's like, almost instantly, it's this codependent relationship because Janie would, like, bully and harass Rachel, and Rachel would feel bad. And then Rachel changed her behavior to make Janie happy. And she says that she's never going to be happy.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's not just to make her happy. It's to make it stop.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's to get a little breather.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Maybe she won't get on my. Maybe she'll call me a whore in front of everyone.

[Patrick Hines]

And Rachel doesn't even necessarily know that. That's why she's changing her behavior. Slimming down her friend group. She doesn't realize she's trying to appease Janie. Not just because she's my friend and I love her, and I want to make her happy. I want the abuse to stop.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right. But it's also, while she's doing that, she's isolating and controlling.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

For this event.

[Patrick Hines]

For this event. And so the woman who slept in our bed, literally the entire next day, all she could talk about was our mattress. And we're like, girl, it's Helix. We had to tell her that we got the midnight lux, and we were explaining how you can take the sleep quiz and you can personalize it to you and your sleep partner's needs. But, like, she talked about our mattress for, like, an entire day.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, I get it. I get it. Because I've been screaming about Helix for a long, long time. I, too, have the midnight lux. Yes, I am a hot sleeper. I get very overheated, and that just will not do. So the midnight lux helps with that. Mike and I are both sort of. We sleep everywhere. Backs on our sides. We're kind of everywhere. Midnight luxe is good for that, too.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, just go to helixsleep.com TCO yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Well said. Well said.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So January 2010, 14 years later, I.

[Patrick Hines]

Screamed when I saw that number.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No one is saying it out loud. They've been roommates for 14 years. And that's an awful long time to be roommates. It just.

[Rachel]

Shade.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No shade. I'm just saying it's a long time to be someone's roommate.

[Patrick Hines]

That is absolutely true. One thing that we. And again, I don't know if this is just information that's left out or whatever, but, like, the whole setup here is that Rachel is dating and she was married and she had that boyfriend, and she's. You know, we never hear about Janie ever being in a relationship. Maybe she wasn't. They just don't tell us. But we never hear about that. I doubt it, too.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel was a paramedic for six years, and she couldn't do that anymore. And she had a herniated disc. So she says that it wasn't possible to continue doing her job. And that sucks because Rachel loved her job and she was freaking great at it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so. But now, for the first time in her adult life, she's not making any money. She's still living with Janie. And now Rachel isn't contributing to the household expenses for the first. And she says, I was always big.

[Rachel]

Into fitness and being active, my career and being social. All three of those things were taken away immediately. And it was a very short period of time between this happening. And then I found out I was pregnant at the same time.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And on top of it, she gets pregnant.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And on top of that, the father, quote, opts out.

[Patrick Hines]

Can we not with that?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I would love to.

[Patrick Hines]

Rachel says that it was a situation in which the biological father opted out. I'm like, please tell. Tell me that you opted into forcing him to play child support. It doesn't sound like it.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I don't think so.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I know the hell my mother went through trying to get my dad to pay child support. And it was court ordered. My dad could have gone to prison, but that would have meant my mom would have the money to get the Attorney to take him to court. Like, it is an absolute nightmare if the biological father just decides he's not going to have anything to do. To do with the kid. And my grandfather did leaves. Yeah. So I understand. I just. I feel for Rachel because that, like, you know, not having any money and now you've got a kid and you can't work, and now you're relying on this person who's horrible to you.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right. And Rachel says Janie had 100% control over.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Rachel was in a lot of pain. She couldn't work, she couldn't go out. She was pregnant. And Rachel's like, I needed her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And now we're gonna meet Ryder, who's Rachel's son.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And she says, ryder is magic. He's the best thing I've ever done.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, I don't know how old he is when we meet him here, but maybe 10. The way that he, like, in the middle of the interview, just crawls into his mother's arms.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And I just wanna say, I know there's a lot of discussion about how to say all of this. So Rachel says that Ryder has autism. I know that some people prefer is autistic, but Rachel. I'm using Rachel's words here, but she says he's convers. Nonverbal.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Rachel was eventually told that Ryder would probably never speak at all, is what she was told.

[Patrick Hines]

Because there's a difference between conversationally nonverbal and nonverbal. He is not nonverbal. He just isn't a. You can't have like a conversation with him necessarily. Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Rachel was like, okay, but the thing about Ryder is that he loves music. And when we meet him, he's wearing these very cool looking headphones.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But for the next 18 months, after Rachel was told that she sang to Ryder.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And she explains how that worked.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Because the neuroplasticity, it's a different path for speech and singing. And so I knew that if the speech one wasn't working, I was trying to get that. Get the music one speeches. And it worked. Ryder's first words were songs.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And it worked because she says Ryder's first words were songs. And I'm like, oh, my God, this dynamic duo. I just love it so much.

[Patrick Hines]

Ryder is also just. He's that little kid that every adult who meets just instantly falls in love with him, including me. I was like, I want to get. I want a Ryder hug.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

He's just the sweetest little kid.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And so when Ryder was born Rachel took out a massive life insurance policy on herself so that whoever took Ryder in would have a lot of money for his care. And I'm like, finally a life insurance policy we can get behind. Except no, I'm wrong. Because the person who's going to take care of Ryder if Rachel isn't around is Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Can we talk about Rachel's family for a second?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I would love to. I mean, yes, I want to be a lot of questions, very careful.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's exactly it. So we meet her dad. We meet her sister Bette.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Bette. And rachel's one of seven.

[Patrick Hines]

And rachel's one of 7. And so I just have a lot of questions because we will eventually be told that Bette lived five hours away from Rachel and is a nurse. And is a nurse.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And it's not helping her.

[Patrick Hines]

And isn't helping her. And so all I know is that this woman, Janie, who is horrible to Rachel, but Rachel is completely dependent on, is now in charge of the life insurance policy. Like it just as a person who has nieces and nephews. I'll just say, over my dead fucking body would anybody else be raising Those kids?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

The 14 year roommate.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Right. But now, once again, Ryder is a kid with special needs. Right. And so as this progresses, we were talking about this off mic. I can imagine a world in which the family is like, that would be really hard. There's this woman in his life, Janie, who loves him, knows how to take care of him, who he's used to, who he's comfortable with, who you would probably want to stay with. So I guess I do understand that dynamic. But Rachel is about to go through fucking hell for another 10 years and it doesn't feel like her family steps in all that much.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I agree with you. I have the very same questions. I don't know where anybody is. Like, for Janie to be listed as Ryder's guardian in Rachel's will seems major.

[Patrick Hines]

It really does. And the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking. Because the most important person in the equation is Ryder. And Ryder really loves her.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Well, that's the other thing, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

And feels really comfortable with her.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Janie's there not five hours away.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

You know, it's a 14 year friendship.

[Patrick Hines]

But we're about to learn all of the surgeries that Rachel's gonna have. It just seems like her family just isn't around that much and she really needs help.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I agree. So anyway, so Rachel is injured again because as she's in labor she herniates another disc, which is horrifying. So she's in even more pain. She's a brand new mom.

[Rachel]

So I let it go for a really long time because I just was convinced that I could live life as normally as I could. Eventually, I had to do an mri. The doctor said, you need surgery or else you're going to have permanent disability.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So By January of 2015, these two have been roommates for 20 years.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, that is. That is wild.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It feels a little crazy, but I get why. Does it? Am I an asshole?

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no, no, no, you're not. But I was just gonna say that just once again, it is making a little bit more sense to me that, like, with Rider special needs and Rider loving Janie, it's a reason to stay.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

You know, if it ain't broke, from Rachel's perspective. If it ain't broke.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And. And Rachel just. Any single parent needs help, and a parent of a kid with special needs probably also needs more help. So it feels a little bit like I've been thinking about this all day, and it feels a little bit less crazy when you kind of look at.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It through that full context.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure, sure.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But In January of 2015, after they've been roommates for 20 years, Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry. If I was a, everybody in my life would be moving in with me. I'd be freaking under duress. Under duress.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Rachel has surgery to prevent permanent damage.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And she says she's in a ridiculous amount of pain. She's taking a ton of painkillers. It's hard for her to even leave the bed. Now. Janie is watching all of this happen and is taking care of Ryder, who was just born, Remember, because she had this second herniated disc in labor. So Ryder's a baby. Baby, baby.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And the way that it's said, you know, Rachel says Janie takes over as caregiver for Ryder. Those are specific words. This is not like she's caring for him, like, taking over his caregiver.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No, she's picking him up, she's holding him. She's doing all the things that Rachel can't do.

[Patrick Hines]

She keeps him alive.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She's doing all of the really intimate things that a mother does with or a parent does with a little baby. So Rachel can't do it right now. So Janie and Ryder form this bond and this closeness because he's two months old and Janie's the one holding him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And like, this is where Rachel's family does come in. And, you know, Beth's like, I lived five hours away. The dad moved across the country. Like, they were all very grateful that there was somebody in Rachel's life who could provide that level of care for Ryder.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right. And so for all of Janie's faults, of which there are no less than 1 million or fewer, whatever, she had a very.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Janie, I hope you're listening.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She had a very important and cool job.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Her job is working at a training center that was focused on helping indigenous people get jobs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That's all we hear about it. She did one decent thing in her whole fucking life, and this is it. And we skate right by it.

[Patrick Hines]

And, you know, she has a very flexible schedule there. And this is where we learn. This is the way it is explained in the documentary. It is explained by Rachel.

[Rachel]

She got us enrolled in a program that paid Janie to basically help me with rider, what they call respite. And so Janie started to do very well financially. It became a significant part of her income.

[Patrick Hines]

Janie started to do very well financially because of this, and it became a significant part of her income. So I have a little bit of experience with this because it's adjacent to the foster care system.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

And I looked it up to make sure that I was saying it right. But basically the definition, I'm. I'm reading it here, it's respite care is a short term temporary care service that gives family caregivers a break from their caregiving responsibilities. Meaning somebody is paid to take over the care of somebody else's family member when that person can no longer provide that care.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. I just wanted to say that, like, we'll get more into it in a minute when we. When we get to how this affects the relationships. But respite care is a very specific thing with, like, legal ramifications.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right. And it seems like the way it's described. And again, I'm learning about this in this moment watching documentary, but it's like Janie got them enrolled in this program. But I have to assume that Rachel consented to all of this.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like, Rachel had to, like, because who the hell is Janie?

[Patrick Hines]

Right? No, I think, and especially probably Janie explained it like, we're gonna get paid to do this. What is important to remember here, though, is that in order for them to get enrolled in this program, Rachel has to acknowledge that she cannot care for her son.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That is an important thing to remember here.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Rachel]

There were times when, you know, there'd be events at his school that I was well enough to go to. And it was like we would walk in and she's talking to the other parents that I don't even know. She's talking to the principal. She was like the mayor of the school. She started letting people believe that she was Ryder's parent.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Janie is letting people believe that she's Ryder's mother? Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And it's a major problem. And then if it hasn't dawned on you yet, I'm just gonna spell it out for you. She's not here to help Rachel. She's here to be Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She's here to replace Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because as the respite person, as Janie, you should be like, I'm here on behalf of, you know, riders out. My son. I'm just taking care of him. Like, that's on you as the Janie person in the real world, in the normal world, to be like, you know, you see yourself as sort of a representative in some way. Not to just allow people to believe that you're his mother.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And it's like when you're the Rachel and you are in so much pain and you have. You can barely care. You definitely can't care for your kid. You kind of can't rock the boat on parents night with Janie because you need her, you know?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right. But Rachel doesn't like what she saw at school.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So she starts setting some boundaries. And like, Janie wants to take Ryder to work with her, which would be separating Ryder from Rachel for the day.

[Patrick Hines]

But also, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not advocating for anything that Janie did. In a world where Rachel is bedridden and on opioids all day, like, that might be the smart thing for Ryder too, be it work with Janie.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, well, Janie doesn't like the boundaries.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And. And we don't get the context. We don't get any more than Janie is overstepping. Rachel doesn't like it. And Rachel finally puts her foot down and says no.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Janie doesn't like that part.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So between 2015 and 2018, we learned that Rachel has seven. Seven back surgeries in three years.

[Patrick Hines]

And again, we don't get the full scope, but they do not seem like minor back surgeries. No, I had minor lower back surgery a few years ago and it out for weeks.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, my God. Really?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it was, you know, and I'll get to it when we get to the wound care section of this because it's like you.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know you can't, like, you cannot do it without another person help, like, caring for you. You truly can't.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

But Rachel is about to be basically incapacitated for three years.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel says two very big things here almost in the same breath. One, I started falling a lot, which means that physically she's not doing very well.

[Rachel]

But two, because I wanted to be responsible anytime I was on pain medication, especially after surgery, where I was on the higher dosages, I made sure that Janie administered it and then kept a running log so that I didn't duplicate.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

On accident to make sure I wasn't taking too much.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

This is again, it's like, it's the financial abuse, controlling the finances. It's the same thing. You're controlling her medication now.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. One other thing. In addition to the seven back surgeries, she falls in her turn neck and he's an additional two neck surgeries.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like Rachel. Rachel is basically always at the hospital.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So by June 20, I want to be really clear.

[Patrick Hines]

I am not blaming Rachel. I'm just. I'm trying to paint a full picture of, like, how we get to where we end up.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. And I'm just like, well, is she over medicating you? And that's why you're falling, correcting it up, a reason. Because by June 20, 2018, Janie takes Ryder to work with her, which is the boundary that Rachel set. It's not enforced.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And that could possibly be because Rachel's having 50 surgeries.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And we have to pick our battles here. But at the same time, it's like, does Janie always walk behind you on the stairs? Like, why are you falling all the time? Why is she in control of your medication? Like, I. Like a lot of this is by design.

[Patrick Hines]

We always say we've got the benefit of seeing it all presented to. When you're Rachel and you're living in it, you're probably not putting it all.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Together because you're in mind numbing pain.

[Patrick Hines]

And some days, Jamie taking the kid to work is a real savior. And other days, you want to be with your kid but she wants to take. And, like, it's a nightmare.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And you're sad and you're lonely, and you'd be sadder and lonelier if you didn't have them. So it's like you're spiraling to be.

[Patrick Hines]

An active, vital woman. And now she can barely leave the house. It's terrible.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But. So Janie takes Ryder to work, which Rachel didn't want, but here we are. Now the two of them are out of the house, and Rachel checks the mail, and there is a letter informing Rachel that she is now in a custody battle for her own son, Ryder.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, with Janie.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And during this battle, Janie has been assigned to be Ryder's guardian.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because Janie is, quote, worried for Ryder's safety around Rachel and went behind Rachel's back to the courts. And now Rachel calls Janie, who's thrilled to. She's like, oh, my God, a phone call in the middle of the day. This is so nice. What's going on, girl?

[Rachel]

She answered perky and happy. Hello? You know, hey.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, you're up.

[Rachel]

You know? And I said, are you suing me for custody of Ryder? And then just quietly, she said yes. And then she hung up on me.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Janie just goes, yeah. Click.

[Patrick Hines]

Then hangs up.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yes. You fucking hate her. Say it to my face.

[Patrick Hines]

But also, like, how did you think this was gonna go down? You know what I mean? Like, she was eventually gonna fucking find out.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But it's also, like, how did. Is that why you wanted Ryder out of the house?

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I was surprised that she didn't like that Janie didn't check the mail and intercept that letter before Rachel got it.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But Ryder is what she intercepted is what I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She got Ryder out of the house so that Rachel can't make any sudden movements.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, right. So Rachel calls 911 and she's like, ah, my best friend and roommate has my kid and she won't give him back. 911 hangs up with. Rachel calls. Janie calls Rachel back, and she's like, so, girl, you haven't been served yet, but this Janie person has filed a protective order against you. Like, you gotta get out. You have to leave the house because.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Everything is in Janie's name because she's, quote, the adult. So it's Janie's house, and now Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Has to leave, and you have to leave your kid. Oh, yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because Janie has custody of Ryder while this whole thing gets sorted.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel, who is recovering from seven surgeries in three years, who's no threat to anyone, now has a protective order against her and it. In a custody battle for her own son, and she has nowhere to live.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's this. This is all crazy.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's all like, what you. She. She woke up and the world exploded.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel is now in a hotel that her dad helped her get and drove there.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, I hadn't driven in years.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's so dangerous.

[Patrick Hines]

But not only is it dangerous, it is just fully every new sentence we're learning how severely isolated she had become.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And how dangerous her life is. Yeah, Like, I mean, not to give too much away, but, like, was. That was an unfortunate accident. Maybe the perfect end to this. Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

To make like, you know, Rachel doesn't have any other options. She has to get in the car. She has been recovering. She shouldn't be driving. And like. Oh, no.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

You know, like, is that. Is that why we end where we end? Because the. All of these other options just didn't work out for Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and it's going to get so much fucking worse because the other.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Other options weren't working out. Maybe it's just a theory that I came up with in this very.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it makes sense. So, you know, Rachel tells us Child Protective Services came out. They met with Janie first. And Janie tells them Rachel had become addicted to her pain meds. That she wasn't.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That Janie was in charge of, by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

J was in charge of.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Make that math make sense.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? That she wasn't properly taking care of her kid and Janie had to step in and do it.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So CPS talks to Rachel.

[Rachel]

And then when they came and talked to me, it was like, within three minutes, they knew she had been lying about everything. He's like, she didn't say. Not only did she not say you had this surgery, she's never. She didn't say you had had any. She just made it sound like you were just addicted to opiates.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

There's proof that she had those herniated discs, like, and they're like, oh.

[Patrick Hines]

Because CPS thought that she was just, like, somehow getting opioids on the street and had become addicted to that.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Not the case.

[Patrick Hines]

Not the case.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So 10 days later, which is 10 days too long. But 10 days later, Ryder is back with Rachel and CPS knows that Janie is, like, lying and crazy, and yet it takes them 10 days to get Ryder. Now, we also know that Ryder's communication is something that he worked on very, very, very hard with Rachel, making him extra vulnerable, which makes me hate Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

Even more, of course.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel and Ryder move into a family shelter, which is, again, like, where's her family? Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, this is the thing that makes. Makes no sense to me, because Rachel goes out of her way to say that she was grateful for the shelter. They do great work. But because of Ryder's autism, it was a really bad place for him.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

He struggled here. She says he regressed. She says he was not happy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So I'm just gonna like where her.

[Patrick Hines]

Family was, because, again, bet I don't know your life. I don't know your circumstances truly. Like, you know, because my whole thing is, like, if my sister and her kid were in a shelter, there's absolutely no fucking way. No fucking way.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No way. While the child is struggling and progressing after all the hard work that Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Did, because I said a million times, I can see why the family leaves him with Janie, not knowing the extent of everything, because Ryder's comfortable there. He likes her. He wants to be with her. Yeah, but living in a shelter, like, oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. So six weeks later, Janie calls Rachel and wants to see Ryder. And Rachel says, yes, I know. And she explains why. Because she says every single day, all Ryder wanted to do was go home. He just wanted to go home. And Rachel was like, maybe he misses Janie because they were bonded to that, and she was a big part of his life. And, like, Ryder's a kid. He doesn't know the ins and outs of this. He knows he liked his life the way it was, and now his life isn't like that anymore, and he wants to go back to the part he likes.

[Patrick Hines]

He's a kid who is struggling, struggling enough on the best day.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

He just wants to go back to the time that he liked.

[Patrick Hines]

And imagine you're his mother and you're watching him backslide from all.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I beg you to just do this thing.

[Patrick Hines]

You would do anything. I mean, when I was first watching this, I was like, this is insane, Rachel. What are you doing? But then I was like, you do anything. You do anything for Ryder. You do anything.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel's like, okay, but we're gonna meet at a public park.

[Rachel]

Jamie apologized. She started talking about how she was in dark place, and she again thought that I was going to leave her. And it. It felt like the Janie that I had known, she didn't seem dark and twisty anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

It felt like the Janie I had.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Known, she didn't seem Dark anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, is what she said.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She didn't seem dark.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a pretty fucked up toxic relationship.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like super codependent.

[Patrick Hines]

Janie is the worst, but. And Rachel desperately needs her. But it's sort of like.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But Rachel is seeing what she needs to see to tell Ryder he can go home. That's really all it is. You human beings will do crazy shit to believe what we need to believe any given day to get through whatever situation to help. You know what I mean? Toxic or not, codependent or not, Rachel had to believe it because her son was begging her to go home.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And that's what happened.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I couldn't agree more.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Janie invites them to come home. Rachel says yes. And obviously not just for Ryder, though. Rachel's life would be easier as well.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, Rachel has to have another.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And I'm like. But also, I'm assuming the custody shit goes out the window.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like, we just never talk about that.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know, I know. Right?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And it's frustrating that Janie is always her only option, right? Always. Always her only option. Like, where is everyone else? Where are all these amazing friends?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, like Robin. You don't mean like Robin who's here in the documentary? Like, I don't know. Like, it's.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Maybe Rachel didn't tell them. Maybe I'm being the asshole now. Because again, we're seeing this from a lens of seeing everything fully. We're talking about an episode that we watched intently and took notes on.

[Patrick Hines]

But I can't imagine that Rachel would live in a shelter for six weeks and everybody in her life doesn't know that.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I don't. You know?

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I don't.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially with Ryder. Like, I don't care.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

With the custody battle.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah. And sister Bette is here to say.

[Rachel]

Like, I was concerned about her moving back in with Janie just because I thought if she could do. If she could be that cruel and do that to her, you know, what else is she capable of? But, you know, I just.

[Patrick Hines]

I just stayed out of it.

[Rachel]

It wasn't my call to, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it wasn't any of my business. It kind of is your business, Bette. Cause I'll tell you, if my sister was going through this, that's my business.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But we don't. I mean, it's hard to say because Bette is here telling the story too. Right? So it's hard for me to say, like, but we don't know their dynamic.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But maybe I will just say filmmaker could you let us know their dynamic?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, just looking at them and the way they look like very different people. You know what I mean? They seem like they have two very different worldviews or whatever.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. You know, and maybe Rachel separated herself from her family and wanted that distance. I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But I think this is a. It's none of my business. Yes. But half of the family is here telling their story on a documentary, so it does feel to me that maybe like some of these questions could have been answered. Yes, Very quickly.

[Patrick Hines]

I totally agree because I want to.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Go back to hating Janie and I have too many other questions.

[Patrick Hines]

No worries about that.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

And may I just say, I've been on the GOP once for a year. It has absolutely changed.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

So if you've been struggling with your weight loss journey, as I had for years and years and years, it's time for you to find the best option that works for you with hers.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel and Ryder are back in the house. Ryder immediately starts to thrive. It's exactly what he wanted, exactly what he needed. And By April of 2019, Rachel has yet another surgery, and everything goes, like, fairly routine. And Janie, quote, graciously offered to help me. I'm like, of course she did well.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's helping with the wound care, which, like, I just know from the minor back surgery I had.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So these are incisions on Rachel's back?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And you cannot dress those wounds yourself. If it wasn't Janie, there would have to be some sort of home health aide to do that for her. So thank God Janie is there. But it also makes Rachel completely dependent on her.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right, Steve, I don't know if I.

[Patrick Hines]

Ever thanked you enough for that, girl. Thank you, honey.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

You can't see what's going on back there.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Jamie would do things that were weird. For example, all she would have to do is change the bandage, right? But instead, she'd be, like, rubbing the area, and Rachel would be like, what's going on back there, girl? And so then suddenly, like, soon after the rubbing, yeah, Rachel would be feeling a lot of pain. And now she's in her back, but she can't see it. So she'd ask, like, her trusty best friend, roommate, helper, medical aficionado. Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

And Janie be like, no, girl, all good. Everything looks fine.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She'd be like, do I need to go to a doctor? And Janie's like, Dr. Schmockter.

[Patrick Hines]

But this is also like, the 2000 teens. Like, take the iPhone and get a picture.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? Rachel, ask her to take a picture and show you.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I would need to see it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. Because I'm in actual physical pain. But then again, maybe you're just like, it's post surgery. Everything sucks.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Whatever. So eventually, though, this is if you're like. If you get squeamish about medical stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

This is your warning.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Eventually, the incisions are swelling up so badly that Rachel is struggling to breathe.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the swelling in her neck is pushing against her trachea. She says.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Janie's like, it's fine, you big baby. You're so silly. Classic Rachel overreacting again. But Rachel's finally like, no. So she goes to urgent care.

[Rachel]

And the doctor was standing behind me. He took the bandage off, and I felt him almost jump back and I said to him, what's wrong? He said, this massive infection, the way he described it, was blue cheese coming out of my wound.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

He said it was like blue cheese coming out of my wounds. And my first thing is get Jamie the fuck away from Ryan.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Get her away from him now.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel goes from urgent care immediately to the emergency room. Like this. Cannot wait because the doctor's probably like, why did you wait? If you were in pain and this swelling didn't happen overnight, like, what. What happened?

[Patrick Hines]

Like this again.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's really bad.

[Patrick Hines]

We saw this in the Mommy dead and dearest one with Gypsy Rose Blanchard. We just. We see all of these medical professionals who should be asking more fucking questions. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And at this point, urgent care is like, girl, er. It's out of my hands right now. Like, you urgent? Yes, urgent indeed. Let's go.

[Patrick Hines]

Because she go. They culture it in the ER and it comes back to be mrsa. Now, MRSA is an infection that is resistant to antibiotics. It can kill you.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's a very serious stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

They describe it as almost flesh eating.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. So, but, but, but, but, but, but conveniently, it's often contracted in hospitals.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Who has spent more time in hospitals than Rachel?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So at first everyone's like, oh, shit. That had to have been where it came from. You just left the hospital again. You've had 50 surgeries in the last two years.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, my God. Like, what. What a. What a cost of doing business. What a tragedy. But no one is looking at anybo.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's true. And my mom had one of these infections once.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But it's weird, though, again, looking back, with our hindsight, Janie should have clocked it, you know, if you got the infection at the hospital.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's going to get so much more obvious in just a second. So they put Rachel on the antibiotic that can treat it or that can.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Maybe treat it sometimes.

[Patrick Hines]

And they say. But then we learned that medicine starts attacking her white blood cells and she's like, she got very ill. She said she got. I could feel the light draining out of me to my core. I knew that I was gonna die.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But miraculously, I mean, truly, like, it's really bad for a while. Really, really bad. But amazingly, Rachel does get better. Whatever regimen they have her on, like, it's starting to work. Rachel is so much better that she's back at home with Janie, hanging out girls night in, watching their True crime.

[Patrick Hines]

Docs, watching some Dateline. And it's the One. It's one of the ones about a nurse who tried to kill her husband. And Rachel's like, oh, my God, what an idiot. What a dumb nurse. Cause she used, like, some poison that would show up in an autopsy. And Janie's like, tell me more.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She's like, what do you mean? Can you elaborate? And, like, spare no detail.

[Patrick Hines]

Hang on, I'm gonna turn on this voice memo and just record that. Is that okay?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Rachel's like.

[Rachel]

And I said. Knowing that it could be considered a suspicious death, I said, you do something like insulin, because that's naturally occurring in the body. And she's like, oh, interesting.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Janie, who might as well be taking notes, is like, cool, cool, cool. So super interesting and yet not at all relevant to me also.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, much insulin would kill a person. Just out of curiosity, just ballpark it. Just ballpark.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But actually give me exact numbers and height. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And your name. I mean, and if you carry the.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

One, what does that get then?

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Rachel says, look, look, look, look, look. Hearing it now, she's like, obviously in this context, it's very obvious. But she goes, we were talking back to these true crime docs all the time, and I. She was an emt, and she knew that. And so, like, that's the conversations they would have. So looking back on it, once we know the insulin thing, but there were a hundred other comments about, they should have done this, they should have done that that we're not talking about, because that how everyone watches these shoe crime docs. Dear listener, you included, we all do it.

[Patrick Hines]

And you know. And Rachel has the knowledge of the insulin. Remember, she was an emt. She knows of what she speaks.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And also, no more custody battle. I guess we're just all back home.

[Patrick Hines]

Has anyone heard from sister Bette? No.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

The father?

[Patrick Hines]

Nobody.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Everyone is just like, what.

[Patrick Hines]

What are the Thanksgiving plans?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But you know what's so scary and sad? It's like, if Janie's okay, everything else is okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's fine.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And when Janie's upset, the world explodes. But right now, everything is cool. So, like, no one's. No one's even mentioning the word custody battle, because that might tip Janie off again and she'll go crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's June. June 9, 2019. Rachel says, I remember Janie had put me in my bed and given me my medication because, remember, she'd had another surgery. Next thing I know, I wake up.

[Rachel]

In the hospital, and I was told that my blood sugar had dropped to 13 since I'm not diabetic, nor have any diabetic issues. This was shocking to everyone, including myself.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Rachel, who is not diabetic, suddenly has severe blood sugar issues. Almost as if someone gave her a bunch of insulin she didn't need.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Her blood sugar drops with 13. Average is like 80 to 110. You know, bet, the sister who's a nurse, rushes to the hospital, meets Janie in the. In the waiting room, asking her a million questions, and she's like.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That's when it really hit me. I was like, I'm sorry. The sister who's a nurse lives only five hours away.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's not that far away versus six.

[Patrick Hines]

Weeks in a shelter. Again, we don't know Bet's life. We don't know the circumstances, but it. But it's like, oh, my God. So Beth, the sister, is really caught off guard by Janie's demeanor in the hospital. She's cold, she's distant. Beth's sobbing. Janie doesn't seem to give a shit that her best friend is about to.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Die, and she's not comforting her best friend's sister. Like, it's all very strange. But now Bette will eventually tell Rachel that Janie was almost mad.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That Rachel survived.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. My question is, how did she get to the hospital? Like, was it, like, did Janie think that she waited just long enough that she wouldn't survive? You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I mean, perhaps. I think that's a good bet, because if you're Janey, you're like, God damn it, this bitch is immortal. Like, what do I have to do? I totally, like, imagine, like, how pissed you are.

[Patrick Hines]

As Janie, she's immortal. Absolutely.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But now Rachel sees this as grief because Janie is, quote, awkward, and that's how she grieves. And I'm like, you can be awkward, but you don't have to be an asshole anymore. You know?

[Patrick Hines]

Rachel says, in hindsight, there were a lot of red flags that I missed. It's like, but we are also making excuses for the abuser. I think that's a thing that we do. Everyone does it, you know?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. But in a. The moment, it was a little bit of a relief for me to hear that. She's like, I miss a lot of red flags because we don't get that a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

No, that's true.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That's a sentence we don't hear a lot. And I'm going to take the win where I can get it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I'll take it, too.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But there are things where it's like, but again, look, I've been in situations and I've known people where you're screaming and being like, can't you see?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And then it's like, right, but he was there for me during a very important time. They were there for me when this major life thing happened. They were there and it's like, great. What has he done for you lately?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Except try to fucking kill you.

[Patrick Hines]

We told you are the Cassandra. And I will. I will hear it in my headphones every time I think about you. You. For us, it's a living hell. It's a living.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's a living hell. It's hell on earth.

[Patrick Hines]

Listen, I will never not believe you again is all I will say.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, but would you do. Would you act on it?

[Patrick Hines]

We'll have to see what happens.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, can't wait. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

[Patrick Hines]

But the thing that happens is they.

[Rachel]

Watched me for 48 hours. My blood sugar was fine. I was fine. So they thought a fluke had happened. I'd gotten sick or something and something had caused it. I went home on a Sunday and Tuesday, I woke up in the hospital.

[Patrick Hines]

Wakes up on Tuesday, back in the.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Hospital, same blood sugar issue. They're calling in the experts. Meanwhile, Janie is stewing in the waiting room playing Kendrick Lamar on repeat. Now, let me say I'm the biggest hater. I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk. She is a fucking hater.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

The ultimate, like a murderous hater.

[Patrick Hines]

But. But Rachel is immortal. Like, at this point, Janie is pissed.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But like, that, I know, is what is so. Because now Janie is. She's just like. It's like activating her even more.

[Patrick Hines]

In all seriousness, why isn't every doctor in the fucking hospital being like, who's giving you the insulin? You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Right? Well, so, dear listener, after this, Rachel is hospitalized yet again for the same issue. This is now the third time she's going in for blood sugar, insulin. And the only that would cause this is that she's somehow getting insulin. And even at this point, her friends are like, girl, Robin.

[Patrick Hines]

The doctor is like, are you doing this to yourself? Are you doing this? But my question, I love you, Robin, but like, But. But Rachel's not the only person who lives in that house. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

There are two constants here, right?

[Patrick Hines]

It's either gotta be Rachel, Janie, or the sun.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Janie, who everyone hated from the beginning.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Now Rachel is eating spoonfuls of sugar every single night. Like she's a fucking Mary Poppins trying to get her bloodshed to skyrocket. Downing sugar and then, like, hoping she wakes up the next day. It's no way to live. It's insane.

[Patrick Hines]

But also, this is where. And I understand that Rachel is very sick, but this is where Rachel needs to be looking at. Like, wait a second.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But also, does no one else know about the custody battle? Did Rachel not tell her friends?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because I'm asking.

[Patrick Hines]

No, you're right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Wait a second. Why are we asking Rachel? Are you injecting yourself? When the person who was giving her the medicine. The medicine got fucked up, someone was supposed to be cleaning her incision. The person who. That very same person who ignored the fucking blue cheese in her back also was trying to.

[Patrick Hines]

They got a trigger warning last time. Sorry.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

We're fucking here now. Train has left the station and it's off the rails and it's exploded.

[Patrick Hines]

The fact that your body can make its own blue cheese if it has to.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I mean, no, if it's forced to, because Janie made it happen.

[Patrick Hines]

And so no one's like, hmm, yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Why do I hear Kendrick Lamar on repeat? What's going on?

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like, what the fuck is going on?

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Like Robin says, it was just bizarre. Nothing was adding up. And I'm like. I'm pulling my hair out. Cause it's all adding up for me.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Also Kendrick's right to hate Drake. But whatever, we'll move on. But this is going on and on and on and on and on.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, until it doesn't. Because on December 12, 2019, Steve Kadee is special agent with the FBI. Is here. This guy's job title. He's the coordinator for the weapons of mass destruction program.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Toto, where are we? We are so lost.

[Patrick Hines]

The weapons of mass destruction.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But I'm like, steve, can you please make some fucking sense? Because I'm desperate.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Desperate for someone. Someone to bring us all back to reality, please. And he's like, girl, I got you. So he. Cause I'm like, weapons of mass destruction? What the fuck?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, this covers chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive weapons of mass destruction. Like, what is going on?

[Rachel]

It was a normal day in the.

[Patrick Hines]

Office and a phone call came in.

[Rachel]

Asking us to conduct an investigation on.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

A person attempting to purchase versa on the dark web. He is here. Yeah, because Janie was caught trying to buy versa on the dark web. Versa with a V. That is worse than versa with an M. Which Is the medicine resistant versus not mercant with.

[Patrick Hines]

An M because versus with a V.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Goes, oh, my God, that's the medicine. The antibiotic resistant, flesh eating virus that was trying to kill Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Robby Roselle, that was for you, girl.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Hi, Robbie. But he's like, the reason I'm here is because MRSA didn't work.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Janie bought versa instead.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, this diabolical fucking asshole is on the dark web. And look, the FBI is saying, like, just for reference, you're one click away from all the horrible shit I'm not gonna do.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Please don't. The dark Web, the idea of it is a really triggering thing for me. It's awful for my particular kind of crazy and my intrusive thoughts. Like, I can't even. I think it's horrifying. Like, I wish I didn't know it existed. Like, it's the worst.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because initially, like, they don't. They know that Janie is buying this stuff, but they don't know who Janie is. Right. They think that she might be buying it to, like, put in the fucking reservoir and poison the town.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because versa is considered a biological weapon and Utah sees that as a weapon of mass destruction. And I'm like, yeah. May I direct your attention to the year 2020 and everything that came after. I know about how fast things can spread. And now this is what, 2019?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So everyone is thinking, who is Janie? Like, what, what is her goal here?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, there was a documentary on Netflix about, like, the idea about how easy it would be to get one of these, like, weapons of mass destruction and just drop it in a reservoir, you know what I mean? Like, it's. It's very fucking terrifying.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So they say, we gotta act fast.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So the FBI is looking into Janie, and Sergeant Jen finds. Thank God, the custody dispute from 2018.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And they learned that Janie is the main careg for Rachel. And they now learn everything we've been screaming about, the surgeries, the disputes, all of that.

[Patrick Hines]

And these are the first people who are putting the dots together.

[Rachel]

So Janie had motive and opportunity to.

[Patrick Hines]

Use the versa against Rachel so that.

[Rachel]

She could get custody of the son.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that Rachel was in grave danger. Like, oh, wait, this woman tried to kill her this way. This woman, like the insulin and the custody battle and the mrsa, but now she's trying to get versa. They're like, rachel, you in danger, girl.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Sergeant Jen is like, this is the easiest case I ever had. Clear as day.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's the you of the FBI.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, my God. Yeah, they'll get there eventually. It's not fun, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

I know it's not a fun thing. But I will tell you, the other side of it is also not fun. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I care less about that side of it. So in December 2019, Janie kind of can't keep up the mask anymore because this fucking bitch won't die. What does she have to do? That's how diabolical she is.

[Patrick Hines]

That's how.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That's what she's thinking. She's mad that the murder didn't work. She's an insane person.

[Patrick Hines]

The murder didn't work.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She's an insane person.

[Patrick Hines]

Listen, we're talking the insulin four different times. The mrsa, the infection. I mean, we're talking at least five times she tried to kill her.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

At least.

[Patrick Hines]

At least.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But, like, her darkness is now becoming undeniable. Even Janie's like, what the.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No amount of Dateline episodes. No amount of, like, nothing. But she's so dark. Like, it's like, it's. It's so obvious that even Rachel, who's trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, is like, something's up with Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And, like, Janie is getting so detached that she's putting Ryder in danger because she's being negligent. And Rachel, like, can't handle that. That's what she can't take. Well.

[Patrick Hines]

And finally, after 20 something years, Rachel's like, I'm gonna move out.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Well, first, though, Rachel changes her will.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Rachel removes Janie as Ryder's guardian. And Rachel's father, Ryder's grandfather, is now the guardian.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So that's the first thing.

[Patrick Hines]

But Rachel, she tells Janie, which is, like, dangerous.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But, like, she's also still not being totally direct with Janie because Rachel, like, gently floats the idea of possibly maybe moving out, but not permanently, just, like, for a little while, just so we can work on our friendship. She's not. She's not even saying that. And it's like, Rachel, you know, you're scared of her, but.

[Patrick Hines]

And the thing.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

That's why you're doing that. You're scared of her.

[Patrick Hines]

We say it all the time. We know that people in abusive, scary relationships are in the most danger when they know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No, and I completely understand. And my point by saying that was like, Rachel just say to us today, I was scared of her.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course. Of course, of course.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, but Rachel said it enough. Yeah, but meanwhile, the FBI has a plan to catch Janie Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Janie says to Rachel, just stay until Christmas. Stay until Christmas, and then go on your way, whatever. So the FBI is like, we gotta act now. December 15, 2019. FBI makes a plan. We made plans to deliver fake versa.

[Rachel]

To the post office box and then.

[Patrick Hines]

Send a tracking receipt to Janie so she would know her package had arrived. We knew we needed to move quickly because Janie asked if she could pay extra to have it expedited and shipped to her overnight.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Janie, by the way, who asked for versa to be expedited overnight?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I mean, like, she needs to kill this woman right now.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And they're gonna be watching Janie slash the post office.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you imagine being so fucking nuts that you're on the Dark web? You ordered your mrsa and you gotta be like, that didn't work. You guys got anything stronger?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And they're like, yeah, yeah, we do. And then you go, great overnight expedition. Delivery it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my. And also, you psychopaths who are buying shit on the Dark web, just know the FBI is monitoring that shit all the time.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Fucking better.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't get away with anything.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

They fucking better be. So they want to catch Janie getting and signing for the fake versa, and that's exactly what happens, right? She walks right in, picks it up.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The people who work at this UPS store are handling a package containing this incredibly fucking dangerous toxic bacteria. That is, except they're not, because it's fake. But I'm. That's probably how she got the mrsa, you know what I mean? Like, they just send it to a. The Dark Web just sends shit to the UPS store. That is wild.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So they get Janie. They're like, janie, why don't you have a seat? And she lies immediately and poorly.

[Patrick Hines]

And we hear it. They, like, they go to see her at work. They're like, can we have a minute of your time? And, like, we hear the recording of this conversation.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And they're like, what? What went on inside the UPS store? And she's like, oh, I picked up a package a friend of mine was sending me coffee beans. I haven't opened it. Why? Why?

[Patrick Hines]

Why? Why? Why do you ask?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Is there something I should be. She goes, is something I should be concerned about?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And the FBI's like, Janie, cut the shit. It's not coffee. You know it. We know it. You know that we know it. Like, are you gonna come clean or what?

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Janie then lies again.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? You got me.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But this lie she goes, no, no, no.

[Patrick Hines]

I went on the site and I.

[Rachel]

Ordered this, and it is a biological one that you can make beer with.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Have you bought all the other supplies.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

To make the beer?

[Patrick Hines]

No. Oh, okay.

[Rachel]

I've never done this before. Make it for New Year's Eve.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I've never done this before, and I bought this weird biological thing to make beer for a New Year's Eve party. I'm like, yeah, try something new the night of a party. Now there's nothing to drink. Thanks a lot, Janie. I know that's a lie. I'm just saying, you don't try something new the day of an event.

[Patrick Hines]

Steve, the FBI guy, is like, can we just start fresh? We know it's biological. We don't believe it's beer, girl. Finally. She's not coffee.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's not beer.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, yeah. It's actually versa.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She said, no. She says, I ordered. Ordered the bacteria to do research on it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I ordered bacteria that I can only get on the Dark Web to help my dear friend Rachel, who, by the way, no one here has asked about.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

How rude. And also, no, idiot. Research insulin, you fucking dummy.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Whatever. Janie's caught and she's arrested.

[Patrick Hines]

They arrest Janie. They go to Rachel's house. Rachel's like, it was just a normal Tuesday, just laying in bed, half dead, essentially.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She's defending Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

She is.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because the FBI is being super vague, but they're also asking a lot of questions. And this is where.

[Patrick Hines]

But again, because they have to drop, like, really fucking terrifying information on her.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And no one wants to believe it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No one wants to believe they're kid.

[Patrick Hines]

Loving her too much. They just need to say, like, girl, you are in serious fucking danger.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Because Rachel's like, I've known Janie for 25 years. Like, she would never intentionally hurt me. Like, this has to be a misunderstanding.

[Patrick Hines]

Because they're asking, like, does she teach science? Does she do experiments in the garage? And she's like, what are you talking. Does she make beer? No, none of the above.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So, like, we hear the FBI say, like, well, this is what she said. And Rachel's like, what? Like, your head. Her head must be spinning. Yeah, but the FBI says it's not.

[Patrick Hines]

The first thing she's ordered off the Dark Web.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

What?

[Patrick Hines]

Is she ordered off the Dark Web?

[Rachel]

Could she order insulin? They looked at each other and then they looked at me, and all the questions stopped and they kind of perked up.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Did she order insulin? And everyone in the room.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Is like, looking. Everything changes. Everything stops.

[Patrick Hines]

That's a major moment.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And that's. And they're like, why? And that's when Rachel tells the FBI about her insulin issues.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So here's what was going on. Janie was drugging Rachel with things like fucking ketamine.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And injecting her with insulin and mrsa. And they can prove, based on what was ordered when and the hospital records and when Rachel was sick with what.

[Patrick Hines]

Or what she was, find an insulin pen in the trash with Rachel's DNA on it.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I mean, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

They can prove that Janie tried to kill Rachel at least five times over the course of one year.

[Patrick Hines]

Unfucking believable.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And the goal was to always send Rachel to the hospital. Because if she died. If Rachel died in the hospital, it would have been, quote, an attended death.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So there would be no investigation. There would be no autopsy. And it was almost. Almost working in Janie's favor that she was sick all the time, because then it's like one of these things would stick. And then, like, there would be no investigation because it was like, oh, poor Rachel.

[Patrick Hines]

This bitch won't die.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like, Janie would have gotten away with. She would have gotten the life insurance. She would have gotten Rider.

[Patrick Hines]

I think somebody would have started asking some questions.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No, they haven't asked a single question yet.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. I know. You would hope that somebody would look back and be like, remember that time she tried to get custody of Ryder 5 years ago?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No one else remembers it except for me, it seems like. And now the FBI and Sergeant Jen.

[Patrick Hines]

It's fucking grudge, girl.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I know it's diabolical. But after her arrest, we get the onscreen text. Now, after her arrest, in 2019, Janie was charged with three crimes. One, aggravated abuse of a vulnerable adult. Two, attempted aggravated abuse of a vulnerable child.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And three, attempted acquisition of a biological weapon. And In August of 2020, she was convicted on all three charges.

[Patrick Hines]

She's.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No attempted murder.

[Patrick Hines]

30 years.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

No attempted murder.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Well, right? I mean, I wonder. Kidnapping. Well, the good news is Janie's gonna rot in prison for 50 years.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, girl, I don't know about that.

[Patrick Hines]

When I read what came next, I fucking screamed.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So Rachel and Janie face off in court.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And Rachel is like. This is when Rachel is talking about how maybe if she was a better friend, she could have helped Janie. I'm like, rachel, it's not you. It's her. It's so clearly her.

[Patrick Hines]

I Hate that for Rachel so much. She is blatant. If I could have been a better friend, I could have saved her. She wouldn't have.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Like, it's like, Rachel, the minute Janie's away from you, all of these mystery illnesses stop.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, yes, she tried to kill you to take your kid, girl, you know?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But like, yes, Rachel has, like, back issues and chronic pain, but she could actually do things now. Ryder is thriving. Like, we take Janie out of the equation, life gets 100 times better.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it's just the Rachel blaming herself for not having been a better friend to Janie, the girl who tried to kill her six times. It's, it's, it's. I just hate it so much.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

So it's like, oh, wow, we're kind of ending weird. I can't wait to see what the sentencing is. Because Rachel. It ends sort of with Rachel saying, like, janie didn't ruin my life, she ruined hers. And I'm like, fuck. Yeah. We end with a phone call from prison. Ring, ring. It's Janie.

[Patrick Hines]

This is like the j. It's like, this is so wild.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

And this is because now, like, we heard a little bit of muffled Janie from the FBI.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

But, like, we haven't heard, like, Janie fully diabolical activated Janice until this.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, I know what's going to happen.

[Rachel]

I'm going to end up out of here.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Find a way to get him away from her. He needs to come back to me now.

[Patrick Hines]

He needs to come back to me now. That is now. That is why my jaw is on the ground screaming. Then we get the onscreen text. Janie served only 25 months in prison. In January 2022, she was granted parole and released.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She walks among us.

[Patrick Hines]

That psychopath has been out and, like, the final shot of the episode is like the camera, like a point of view shot from the woods, like, spying on Rachel and Ryder playing in the.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, we didn't need that.

[Patrick Hines]

That's too much.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's scary enough. This is a real life Hyder movie.

[Patrick Hines]

I looked it up. Like, I couldn't find any information on what's going on.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I don't understand. The 25 months she tried to kill Rachel 10 times.

[Patrick Hines]

She got a weapon of mass destruction.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Mass destruction. Did we learn nothing from 2020? Jesus Christ.

[Patrick Hines]

It's fucking crazy.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She's just out in the world and that's how it ends. That's how it ends.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God, girl. We did the worst roommate ever. Like, that was really wild.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's really crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, really like. Janie, are you listening? Where are. What is her deal?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I hate her. It just sucks because, like, Rachel, for a moment, thought she can kind of live in peace. And now Rachel's gonna look over her shoulder and ride her shoulder for the rest of their lives, which is so fucking.

[Patrick Hines]

And seemingly by herself.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Seemingly.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I mean family. Come on.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. TCL fam, join us over on the Patreon. We've got Drag Bingo coming up. We got the November and December drag bingo booked. You'll get the email. We'll let you know the date, and then you'll get the email, like, the day before to sign up. Just remember to sign up. Just register for it and then join us.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah, it's so much fun.

[Patrick Hines]

I might come as, like, Santa Claus for the December one.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, cute.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe I'll come as a turkey for the November one. Oh, I'm into costumes now.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Okay. Yeah, Halloween really opened it up for you. All right, we'll see.

[Patrick Hines]

What do we got going on next?

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Oh, we are doing family secrets. The disappearance of Alyssa Turney on Peacock.

[Patrick Hines]

Sarah Turney is our friend. I just watched it the other day.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

She really took the reins on this Sarah.

[Patrick Hines]

She's the executive producer of the thing. It's a really, really, really good documentary. I'm really, really happy for her to get to tell her story in this way. We are also going to have an interview with Sarah Attorney.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

We are.

[Patrick Hines]

That's going to be on Patreon the same day that episode goes live.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

So, Patreon fam, that's for you.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Yeah. If you don't know much about this case, it is Wild Ellis Attorney's case.

[Patrick Hines]

This is the first time I've seen the whole thing presented in its totality in this way. It's a really good documentary.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

It's very good.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. All right, fam, we love you, and we'll see you next time. Okay.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. Bye.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

On the last day of her junior year, Alyssa went missing. And that changed everything. My dad told me that Alyssa had run away. I was in shock. I felt so much guilt. I blamed myself. But because I was so young, it's hard to rely on my own memory. So I had to go back and try to piece together the truth. Alyssa, do not leave the building whatsoever. Searching for the truth, I was frustrated. I wanted to tell Alyssa's story in this episode. And that's when I found podcasting and TikTok and I start to put together the pieces. You got me in trouble, dad.

[Patrick Hines]

Nobody's heard from Alyssa.

[Jillian Bezvalli]

I'm trying to meet you in the middle here, dad. You've destroyed your own family. When I start to uncover more facts about my own life that I never knew, it starts to make me question everything.