True Crime Obsessed - Episode 408: Mastermind: To Think Like A Killer

Release Date: December 24, 2024

In Episode 408 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Mastermind: To Think Like A Killer," hosts Patrick Hines and Julia Betavali delve into the untold story of Dr. Ann Burgess, a pioneering figure in the FBI's criminal profiling unit. This episode, part of their exclusive Patreon coverage, explores Dr. Burgess's groundbreaking work in understanding the minds of some of the world's most notorious killers, blending true crime insights with the podcast's signature humor and heart.

Introduction to Dr. Ann Burgess and Her Legacy

The episode opens with Patrick Hines expressing excitement about covering Dr. Ann Burgess's story, emphasizing it as a quintessential "Let the Women Do the Work" narrative. Dr. Burgess's multifaceted career is highlighted—balancing her role as a nurse, advocate for sexual assault survivors, and a mother of four, all while making significant contributions to criminal profiling.

Patrick Hines [00:07]: "Dr. Ann Burgess, who helped pioneer the FBI's criminal profiling unit... she did all this while still maintaining her work as a nurse and advocate for survivors of sexual assault and while also prioritizing her family."

The Rise of Serial Killers and the Need for Profiling

Julia Betavali sets the stage by discussing the surge of serial killers in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, mentioning infamous names like Ted Bundy and the Menendez brothers. The lack of effective tools to catch these criminals underscored the necessity of Dr. Burgess's work.

John Douglas [03:26]: "There was this aura. Women need to be protected. And here it was, Anne Burgess, full speed ahead."

Dr. Ann Burgess's Entrance into the FBI

In 1978, while serving as a nursing professor at Boston College, Dr. Burgess receives an unexpected call from the FBI. Initially fearing tax fraud allegations, she is instead invited to contribute her expertise on her book, "Rape Victims of Crisis." This pivotal moment marks her entry into the male-dominated FBI environment.

Dr. Ann Burgess [05:15]: "Yes."

Collaborating with John Douglas and Rob Ressler

Dr. Burgess partners with FBI agents John Douglas and Rob Ressler, both key figures in the Behavioral Science Unit (BSU). Their collaboration aims to bridge the gap between understanding victims and profiling offenders. The trio faces challenges, including resistance from a predominantly male unit skeptical of their unconventional methods.

Rob Ressler [03:15]: "At the time, she was the only woman at the FBI."

Developing the Profiling Questionnaire

One of Dr. Burgess's significant contributions is the creation of a 57-page questionnaire tailored to extract consistent and actionable information from serial killers. This tool standardizes interviews, allowing for the identification of patterns crucial for profiling.

John Douglas [29:09]: "We put together this 57 page questionnaire, color coded it, which made it easier for the agents, and we started collecting the data."

The Ski Mask Rapist Case: A Case Study

The episode delves into the Ski Mask Rapist case, a chilling series of assaults spanning nine states. Dr. Burgess's analysis identifies a pattern of escalating violence, drawing parallels to previous serial offenders like Monty Russell. This pattern recognition is pivotal in predicting the Rapist's next moves and potential for murder.

John Douglas [34:12]: "It stops being exciting enough. That's when you can get the murder."

Impact and Breakthroughs

Through meticulous analysis and the application of her questionnaire, Dr. Burgess helps the FBI's BSU transition from chaotic data collection to a structured profiling methodology. Her ability to empathize and connect with both victims and offenders revolutionizes the unit's approach, leading to more effective investigations and arrests.

Dr. Ann Burgess [31:31]: "Ann was the branch of the operation. She saw the potential for using interviews with serial killers to be predictive of who a killer might be."

Personal Sacrifices and Professional Triumphs

Balancing her demanding role with family life, Dr. Burgess exemplifies dedication and resilience. The episode touches on her personal losses, including the tragic death of her uncle, which further fuels her commitment to preventing future crimes.

Dr. Ann Burgess [27:06]: "She's very devoted to try to figure out how to prevent this from happening in the future."

Conclusion: A Mastermind in Profiling

Episode 408 culminates with the successful application of Dr. Burgess's profiling techniques, leading to actionable insights that significantly aid in the apprehension of the Ski Mask Rapist. Her innovative approach underscores the importance of interdisciplinary collaboration in criminal investigations.

Julia Betavali [34:33]: "It's not just random. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's never enough."

Notable Quotes

• Patrick Hines [00:07]: "It’s not wrong to laugh when you’re listening to a true-crime podcast... if almost crashing my car while listening to True Crime Obsessed is wrong, I don’t want to be right."

• Dr. Ann Burgess [05:15]: "Yes."

• John Douglas [29:09]: "We put together this 57 page questionnaire, color coded it, which made it easier for the agents, and we started collecting the data."

• Rob Ressler [03:15]: "At the time, she was the only woman at the FBI."

Final Thoughts

"Mastermind: To Think Like A Killer" offers an in-depth look at the innovative techniques that transformed the FBI's approach to catching serial killers. Dr. Ann Burgess's legacy, as portrayed in this episode, highlights the critical role of empathy, structured methodology, and interdisciplinary collaboration in solving complex criminal cases. For listeners eager to explore more of Dr. Burgess's impact and the detailed workings of the BSU, all three episodes of the series are available exclusively on Patreon, along with over 450 bonus episodes.

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