412: The Texas Cheerleader Murder Plot

Summary

True Crime Obsessed Podcast - Episode 412: The Texas Cheerleader Murder Plot

Release Date: January 28, 2025
Platform: HBO Max
Case Overview:
In this gripping episode, hosts Julian Benzavalli and Patrick Hines delve into the notorious case known as the "Texas Cheerleader Murder Plot." This true crime narrative unravels the disturbing lengths to which Wanda Holloway, infamously dubbed the "Pom Pom Mom," went to secure a coveted spot for her daughter, Shanna, on the local cheerleading squad. The case not only captivated national attention but also inspired two TV movies, drawing parallels with popular culture references like the film Bring It On.

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**1. Background and Setting

Julian Benzavalli (01:13), Patrick Hines (01:17):
The case unfolds in a suburban Texas town where cheerleading is not just a sport but a symbol of status and success. Wanda Holloway's obsession with her daughter's cheerleading prospects sets the stage for a sinister plot that blurs the lines between maternal ambition and criminal intent.

Notable Quote:
Shanna (02:30): "My name is Shanna and I am the daughter of Wanda Holloway, the notorious Pom Pom Mom. And I'm going to tell you the truth about what happened for the first time."

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**2. Wanda Holloway and Shanna's Early Life

Julian Benzavalli (08:02):
Wanda, raised in a strict missionary Baptist household, instilled rigorous rules in Shanna from a very young age. At just three years old, Shanna was enrolled in cheerleading, gymnastics, and other extracurricular activities, laying the foundation for her mother's relentless pursuit of perfection.

Notable Quote:
Shanna (08:33): "I was a spitfire. I was a leader. I did this."

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**3. The Rivalry: Shanna vs. Amber Heath

Patrick Hines (25:53):
The tension heightens with the introduction of Amber Heath, a formidable competitor whose prowess in cheerleading poses a significant threat to Shanna's chances of making the squad. Amber's mother, Verna, becomes an unwitting rival to Wanda, igniting a fierce competition fueled by envy and desperation.

Notable Quote:
Julian Benzavalli (25:53): "If Amber didn't audition, then Shanna would have been number two."

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**4. Wanda's Descent into Desperation

Patrick Hines (26:10):
Feeling betrayed by the system when rules seemed to only benefit her, Wanda's frustration spirals into a dark path. Unable to accept Amber's violation of the established rules, Wanda explores extreme measures, including soliciting a hitman through her troubled husband, Terry Harper.

Notable Quote:
Patrick Hines (26:42): "Wanda was all about the rules. She followed the rules. These people didn't follow the rules. And she couldn't."

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**5. The Sinister Plot Unfolds

Julian Benzavalli (44:47):
Shanna encounters suspicious men near her practice area, leading to a harrowing realization of the imminent threat posed by her mother’s actions. This encounter precipitates Wanda’s arrest for solicitation of capital murder, marking the peak of her descent into criminality.

Notable Quote:
Patrick Hines (44:49): "Shanna tells us about her childhood, herself. She was independent. She was a spitfire. She's a leader."

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**6. The Trial and Aftermath

Julian Benzavalli (60:33):
Wanda’s trial becomes a media frenzy, overshadowed by revelations of her manipulative nature and the toxic environment she fostered for Shanna. The courtroom drama exposes deep-seated family conflicts and the devastating impact of Wanda’s actions on her daughter’s mental health.

Notable Quote:
Patrick Hines (60:37): "I believe Marla. This ex-wife because she's ripped apart and she's an abuse and rape survivor. Which is disgusting."

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**7. Impact on Shanna Holloway

Patrick Hines (58:53):
Shanna grapples with the trauma inflicted by her mother's obsession. The documentary portrays her journey towards self-empowerment, overcoming guilt, fear, and the strained relationship with Wanda. Shanna emerges as a resilient figure, determined to reclaim her autonomy and heal from the emotional scars left by her mother's actions.

Notable Quote:
Shanna (80:15): "I realized I'm my own hero. Other people can't make you happy. Only you can do that."

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**8. Cultural and Societal Reflections

Julian Benzavalli (03:37):
Host Julian highlights the broader implications of the case, reflecting on the societal pressures in Texas that equate cheerleading with popularity and success. The episode critiques the hyper-competitive environment that can drive individuals to extreme measures, questioning the ethical boundaries of parental ambition.

Notable Quote:
Julian Benzavalli (03:37): "Texas minds think they can make their own rules, and they do."

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**9. Media Portrayal and Public Perception

Patrick Hines (75:34):
The episode concludes with a discussion on the film adaptations of the case, particularly praising the campy yet poignant portrayal by Holly Hunter. The hosts critique the media’s sensationalism, emphasizing the real-life trauma experienced by Shanna, which contrasts sharply with the movie’s humorous undertones.

Notable Quote:
Patrick Hines (75:44): "She does not understand the humor. It's highbrow, lowbrow comedy."

---

Conclusion

"The Texas Cheerleader Murder Plot" serves as a chilling reminder of how societal expectations and parental pressures can morph into obsessive behaviors with tragic consequences. Through a blend of thorough analysis and satirical commentary, True Crime Obsessed offers a nuanced exploration of this case, highlighting the psychological and emotional turmoil endured by the individuals involved.

Final Notable Quote:
Shanna (81:30): "Nobody got hurt. Except you."

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key points and discussions from True Crime Obsessed Episode 412. For a comprehensive understanding, listeners are encouraged to tune into the full podcast episode.

Transcript

[Julian Benzavalli]

I think I would have been a good cheerleader.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure you would have.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, that's nice of you. Yeah, I'm a. Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

You have spirit. Yes, you do.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Hi. Julian Benzavalli.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi. Patrick Hines.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Hey, fam. Join our Facebook group. We just hit the 59,000 member mark.

[Patrick Hines]

Whoa.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's so fun. Come and meet new friends, hang out, share your dog memes, share your wedding pics, talk about the episodes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because we, like, talk to you a lot in the Epps and we ask you questions and the Facebook group is wherever everyone goes to sort of the answer. Like, we were just talking about twins.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So everyone's like, I'm a twin. I'm a twin. I know twins.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Also, fam. I'm on tour. If you don't know this, we just announced 10 new cities. I'm coming. Also to Dallas, Austin, Houston, Portland, San Francisco, Phoenix, Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati and east Coast. I'm coming. We're going to announce more. More cities later, but just get all the details and get your [e-mail]. a bunch of the smaller venues have already sold out, so if you do want to come let me make you laugh for an hour. Then we all go to the bar. It's a cash bar, but we hang out all night. We make new friends. It's gonna be really, really, really fun. So patricktoors.com for the information and tickets.

[Patrick Hines]

Amazing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I'm excited.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm excited, too.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, thanks, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

You're welcome, girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

So this is on hbo, Max. It's called the Texas Cheerleader Murder plot.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, it's a much less interesting name than the TV movie that was eventually.

[Patrick Hines]

Made, which we will get to. I know about this from the movie Bring it on, which I will be referencing ad nauseam today.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, yes. School Spirit turned to sinister desire this year in Texas.

[Patrick Hines]

It was a case so bizarre that it captured national and worldwide attention.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's been dubbed the Pom pom mom.

[Patrick Hines]

The shocking, unbelievable plot. A small town mother so obsessed with her daughter's cheerleading chances that she would resort to murder for hire to improve her daughter's odds of getting on the squad.

[Shanna]

There's been a lot of negative surrounding the story of my mom, and I'm tired of running from it.

[Terry]

The story of a crime that provided the plot for two TV movies.

[Patrick Hines]

If wanting something good for your kids is greedy, then I guess they could label me as being greedy.

[Shanna]

Maybe sometimes people just want to believe what they want to believe, and that's fine. I'M the only one who knows the full story about my mom.

[Patrick Hines]

You still taking care of that problem?

[Julian Benzavalli]

All right.

[Shanna]

I've carried the secret around for too long and it nearly killed me.

[Patrick Hines]

Today she decided it was time for the public to hear her side of the story.

[Shanna]

My name is Shanna and I am the daughter of Wanda Holloway, the notorious Pom Pom mom. And I'm going to tell you the truth about what happened for the first time.

[Patrick Hines]

I've been looking for a documentary about this case since we started tco, but there wasn't anything like recent or full length.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's so weird because it's so ripe for a documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know, I know about this case from my friend Mike Jensen because he was obsessed with the TV movie, which I've never seen, but I've always loved Holly Hunter until I learned stuff about her in this.

[Patrick Hines]

It's. Well, you know, there's a lot going on. Let's.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I don't think Holly Hunter is at all bothered by whether or not she's like, what? Who?

[Patrick Hines]

She doesn't even remember she did this movie.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Although, I don't know, it's.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like a moment classic.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's an absolute camp classic. Well, we start with Mimi Schwartz. Schwartz, Schwartz. S W A R T Z. She's an editor for Texas Monthly now. TCO fan. If you don't know about Texas Monthly, let me tell you, they do some of the absolute best true crime reporting out there. They do long form stories. If you're ever bored and you want to, like, read, like, interesting true crime stuff, just Google Texas Monthly true crime. And you will get so much good stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Amazing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Can we just go back for a second, though? Because it's January 30, 1991. Dear Diary, My mom was picked up today by two detectives. And I'm like, is this real? The answer is yes. We have photos. This girl, Shanna, Yeah. She's not a woman now, but at the time she was a teenage cheerleader. And this is all about how her mother hired a hitman. Now, if you saw the movie.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, this is all about how her mother entertained the notion of hiring a hitman.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I know about this from the movie Bring it on. It's a throwaway line in the movie where Torrin says, you know, mothers have killed to get their daughters on squads. And the mother goes, that mother didn't kill anyone. She hired a hitman. She hired a hitman.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right, right.

[Patrick Hines]

That was the front where I was like, wait, that must be real. This Is the case. This is what that line is referencing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

This is the case. And everyone in this thing is guilty. And this mother sucks. But, like, there is nuance to what she actually did.

[Patrick Hines]

And Shanna is here to tell the story.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, it's her documentary, and it's kind.

[Patrick Hines]

Of a world we're just living in 100%.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And it a cool thing where it's like, you know, they normally be like, prosecutor, blah, blah, blah. Or it'll be like, my mom's Lawyer.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Anna McDonald. Her lower third is. She wrote a book about my mom.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's very clearly like. And the font is in Shanna's handwriting. It looks like it's in a notebook. This is Shanna's world. We are just living in it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

All of that is the best part of this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

It adds because it's like Shanna is telling her story about her mom, and I'm sure the people on the other side of the story are like, well, hold on a second. Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I'm just. I know we're going to get to all of it, but I'm conflicted about Shanna because I don't think she's really being honest about her mom. You know what I mean? Like, there's just a lot. So anyway. But Mimi is saying that Texas is.

[Patrick Hines]

This idea of individualism.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I think it's still a place where.

[Patrick Hines]

People think they can make their own.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Rules and wanna make their own rules.

[Patrick Hines]

So Wanda Holloway is an example of that. This is a place where people think they can make their own rules, and they do make their own rules. I'm like, all right, Mimi. Okay, then.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But the other talking heads are saying that, like, this whole thing takes place in this suburb of Houston, which is like, the Texas that people wanted to exist. Like, a place where, like, football is king and it's all the cheerleader dating the quarterback. And it just seems like bullshit to me. Yeah, well, I don't think I do well in a town like that.

[Patrick Hines]

No, probably not. Same though, you know?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah. No, no. You thrive against it. Like everything you want. You would thrive.

[Patrick Hines]

In what way?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because you're so hot and you're like. And you're nice and like. And you wouldn't even want to be mean to the quarterback. You know what I mean? You would do great.

[Patrick Hines]

I wouldn't be mean to the quarterback because he tells girlfriend and then she tell her friends, and they'd all be mean to me.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But I just feel like you do great. I feel like you do.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, thanks.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, you're welcome. Not me, though.

[Patrick Hines]

I'd find the closest Tim Riggins for my.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What's a Tim Riggins?

[Patrick Hines]

Friday night. That's Tim Riggins. He's like the bad boy. Oh, I thought he was running back.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The gay boy, but no. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, we can't talk about Friday Night Lights. This is a. Bring it on.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I was really thinking, like, how long is this episode going to be? You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's not like a demand. I'm just saying, but you should do it. So Shanna tells us about her childhood herself. She was independent. She was a spitfire. She's a leader, like tap la, painting, piano modeling. And I thought it was really interesting because it's rare. Just follow me on this. It's rare that someone tells us about Themselves. Like, not in the obvious way, in that way. Like in most documentaries, they'd be asking my friends and family to describe what I was like as a kid. But Shanna is here saying, like, I was a spitfire, I was a leader. I did this. I thought that was cool, but I.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Think that I thought it was cool too. But it's nuanced because she's gonna later say, like, I also hated doing my stuff and her mother was making her do all of that.

[Patrick Hines]

And yeah, because Shannon's mom, quote, sparked her interest in cheerleading. Shannon's mom put her in cheerleading when she was a kid. Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And like, she asked her when she was like three, if you want to be a cheerleader. She's like, I don't know what that is. And she's like, you go hold pompoms and jump up and down and scream. And she's like, sure, that sounds great.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's do that one.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What 3 year old doesn't want to do that?

[Patrick Hines]

Now the moms and we learn. And it's not just Shannon's mom. It's all the. It's like the moms of this area and of this time that, like, if you wanted to do something that indicated that you were popular, your standard, standard.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Of beauty was accepted, you become a.

[Patrick Hines]

Cheerleader, that meant you were popular.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And this is what we're being told 100% there. What? Somebody makes the really good point that for women who wanted to, like, care about sport, like the world didn't care about women's sports back then nearly as much as they do now, which is still not nearly as much as they care about men's sports.

[Patrick Hines]

If you wanted to be an athlete in any way, you were a cheerleader, which cue I transferred from Los Angeles. Your school has no gymnastics team. This is a last resort. Okay, so I never cheered before. So what you are.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You can't contain multitudes. I know that you love Bring it on, but it feels, it feels. I don't know. I wouldn't be like. I would be like, she loves Beetlejuice. I wouldn't be like, she loves Bring It On.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, you contain multitudes.

[Patrick Hines]

I love them all.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you kidding? Like, don't make me choose.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is not a democracy. This is a cheerrocy.

[Patrick Hines]

And it is because we learn later that it for sure is. And like, let me. Oh, my God.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, I have so much to say about that.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me say right now, cheerleading is no joke. It's incredibly hard. No matter how Many bring it on jokes I make in this episode. Please. I am in awe of cheerleader.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, and also there's a difference between the cheerleading that was going on at my high school, which, no offense, Colleen, but like, it was just like, rah, rah, whatever. But then you see the cheerleading competition.

[Patrick Hines]

That are like espn truly. It is. They are exactly for real, true athletes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. And like these women, you know, you could get scholarships and go to college on that. You could. Like, these women could join the.

[Patrick Hines]

Dallas did that? Yeah, like, that was her scholarship. And then she was on ESPN all the time. And it's like. It's amazing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

So Wanda Holloway is Shannon's mom. She's described as very tightly wound.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She also describes herself in an old interview as being low key.

[Patrick Hines]

And I was like, that would be.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like me describing myself as. Patrick has a real low key kind of guy.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no. You know what I mean? No one would.

[Julian Benzavalli]

A real inside kid.

[Patrick Hines]

She's uptight. She was active in church, active in school. She was always like, keeping up with the Joneses.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Very, very, very, very strict.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The one thing I wanted to say here, and I don't think they're trying to force a full I Tanya down our throats with this documentary, but I was.

[Patrick Hines]

Another fantastic movie, but.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But also worthy of the subject. Like, for me, I think this mom sucks. I think she basically did what she of though. I think there is nuance to it. And I was just like, I'm not quite ready for these people to be like, we got it wrong the first time.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, you know what? What? They really hit home here. And that this will come back. Wanda was all about the rules.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Rules, rules, rules, rules.

[Patrick Hines]

She loved rules. You follow the rules. If she has to follow the rules, everyone has to follow the rules. And that will be her undoing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I. And because she does get fucked by the rules. You know what I mean? Betray her. And it's truly unfair what happens.

[Patrick Hines]

Betray her?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, yes. But also, I have this note a hundred times throughout my notes. That really sucks. Wanda, you still shouldn't hire the hitter.

[Patrick Hines]

I agree.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what?

[Patrick Hines]

I agree. She was all about the rules. The rules betrayed her and she snapped 100%.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I do wanna give Wanda some credit. She is a woman. We're gonna get her backstory right here. Right? And Shanna, her daughter is saying her mom was raised missionary Baptist.

[Shanna]

You don't have sex before marriage. You don't swim with other sexes. You know, you go to church usually Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesdays, you know, she couldn't just go do whatever she wanted to do. She had rules to follow.

[Patrick Hines]

Lighten up.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Lighten. Like, the greatest joy of summer is swimming with. You know what I mean? With swimming with people you want to see in bathing suits.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But, like, you know, go to church on Sunday and Wednesday.

[Patrick Hines]

It's also just so stupidly heteronormative. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Everyone could be like, please, absolutely. You can't swim.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the boys pool in the girls pool. Meanwhile, half the girls totally, like, get up.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Get those. You know what? I'm really supporting that rule. Get those girls out of here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know what?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Get them out.

[Patrick Hines]

Boys only sleepovers.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, people.

[Patrick Hines]

You were. You were.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You were thrusting them into the arms of Satan's homosexuality.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Love Satan's homosexuality.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Our new. Is that our new. Our new gay bar?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, we got to open a new gay bar called. Sure. In Houston called Satan's Homosexuality. Yeah, that'd be great.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

All right. But anyway, Shayna is saying that her mom couldn't just do what she wanted. She had rules to follow. And I wanted to make the note here that, like, Wanda does seem like in another life, she would have been running a company. She. She does seem like somebody who was. Was very ambitious, who didn't, you know, just didn't have a lot of opportunity.

[Patrick Hines]

And, well, she's very superficial, and she's all about what it looks like, and she wanted everyone to be jealous of her daughter and, you know, like, oh, her. You know, she wanted to sort of parade her daughter around as the successful one, and it was all about what everyone. To me, what it's seeming like is that it feels like it was more about what everyone's gonna think.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, and it's also very Mama Rose energy. Like, you know, Shayna is gonna say, my mom wasn't trying to live vicariously through me, but I'm sorry, girl, you're wrong. Like, she absolutely was trying. And two things can be true. We say it all the time. Your mother could very well have been trying to give you opportunities and make you have more than she had and to also be living vicariously through you because she's trying to make you have the opportunities that she didn't have, but that you also don't want.

[Patrick Hines]

And Wanda's not the only one doing this here. We'll get into it. Like, it's not a Wanda specific thing. It's sort of what we. What the first 20 minutes of this are like. This is what the culture was.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

This is like, yes. This couldn't have really happened anywhere necessarily. This happened here for a reason.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, absolutely. So Shane is saying that, like, her parents married really sucks. She doesn't really remember them being married ever. That, like, they got divorced when she was really young. We learned that her parents, Wanda and Tony, met in high school. The mom was a sophomore. The dad was a senior.

[Terry]

They married a week after she graduated from high school. And according to. I remember Tony's mother telling me that they would exchange vicious barbs with each other, put each other down about their physical defects and so forth. And, you know, the marriage didn't last too long.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wanda was very disgruntled in her marriage.

[Patrick Hines]

But is anyone shocked they got married when they're 17? You don't even know who you are at 17 years old. I know they got married as teenagers. They really grew up. They realized they hated each other and they weren't attracted to each other. Is anyone surprised? This is why you don't get married when you're 19 years old.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, but it's why you're saying it could, like, only have happened there. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, my God, you don't even know who you are as a person yet.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

17 years old.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Also, like, that thing where Shayna is saying, like, my parents just, like, wanted to hurt each other and they didn't care who knew it. Like, they would talk shit openly about the other one in front of the kids. They would use the kids against the parent. Like, this is bad parenting, everybody. This is just bad parenting.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because Shanna says. Which I think is really important, her wording here. She says that her mother learns how to be manipulative from this marriage and her father.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she also. Shannon also points out that she. She's not 100% sure what the truth is. She just knows it was a mess. She was in the middle. It was really bad. And she. She kind of noticed her mom changing a little bit and becoming a little bit more vindictive after this horrible relationship.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And we should point out that Shanna has at least one sibling that we hear we never meet.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Nobody wanted to be in this documentary. Like, the mom isn't in this documentary. The other cheerleaders aren't in this. No. She couldn't get anyone to sit down and do it.

[Patrick Hines]

And Shanna says that Wanda, she was like, look, it was a mess. But her mom actually made sure that Shanna was bathed and got three meals a day. And so she's like, Obviously I preferred being with my mom.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, I was just gonna say, we don't give you credit for actually just rear doing the bare minimum and raising your child. You know what I mean? No, the dad sucks because she's like, we, we would go. It was like Sarah Turney telling that story about how nobody brushed her hair for a summer night. I wake up in the middle of the night, like, so about thinking about that.

[Patrick Hines]

He didn't want a family. He was a kid too. Like, he was a young. You know, it's like, it was a mess.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Wanda put Shannon in gymnastics and cheerleading at 3 years old, quote, so she'd be ready. Okay, so cheer, gymnastics, dance lessons, art, piano. Shanna says I constantly had stuff to do.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know, can I just say, we put Daisy in gymnastics, I think, when she was 4. And I've, I, I've told this story before, but like the original idea of this gymnastics place was you drop your 4 year old off and you come back and pick them up. And I was like, are. What, Are you fucking kidding me? Like, I'm gonna leave my old with you in this? Like, in this. So that didn't happen. They ended up, like letting the parents stay, obviously. But Daisy, I mean, obviously, obviously Daisy thrived, you know, and it's, it's so lovely to see a kid doing something that they enjoy whether they're good at it or not. And like Shanna, we're going to learn, like right now. Fucking hated all of it.

[Patrick Hines]

She hated all of it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wouldn't it have been so amazing if they could have find like the one thing that Shanna really wanted to do?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And maybe it was one of the other many things she was doing. We're just here to talk about cheerleading.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right? Right. We learned too that like, even they.

[Terry]

Converted the garage into a little cheerleading studio of sorts. And Shannon was made when she'd come home from school to go directly into that area to practice the cheer routines. I don't think there was near as much emphasis on her schoolwork.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Had to continue doing gymnastics, which she hated when she was at home.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Can you imagine any worse way to take all the fun out of everything?

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's a perfect way to ruin, ruin this thing. And again, if it's like, oh, so you can be ready, like, you put Daisy in gymnastics, honestly, to make her tired and have her do something literally.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So on a Saturday morning, active, be.

[Patrick Hines]

Social, meet other people. It's like something for her to do. It's not like, so she's ready.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

For what the Olympics. Like, she's for.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right? And, like, this is what I would say 90% of parents do. Like, you just do it because you do it and you want. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and to me. So this is where we get like, half the people. Everyone in the documentary saying that Wanda was vicariously living through. Shannon and Shanna saying, I disagree with that. That's not what this is. But to be fair, Wanda is not the only mother doing this, because there are moms on the news for this shit all the time, namely Amber Heath and her mother, Verna. So we have.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Shenna is such a name.

[Patrick Hines]

Shanna and Amber are the daughters.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Wanda and Verna are the.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I'm sorry, what's her name?

[Patrick Hines]

Verna and Wanda. This is like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's like. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, it's such a. It's just such a name. Verna girl. Today's episode is brought to you by Ollie. It's clean, fresh nutrition your dog needs in five flavors. They'll absol. Flip over.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, they're perfectly portioned. They are delicious. It's like whole, fresh food. You're gonna be thinking, who's eating better, me or my dog? The answer should be your dog, because they're the best.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yes, it's super important.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Just make this. But Ollie really guides you through the process.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, they do. They really do. And it's smart. It's like slow and steady, right?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly, exactly. And golden loves it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, well, because one of the reasons that he doesn't even know about, honestly, is that Ollie offers three meal plans to choose from. So you can choose between a full, fresh plan, a fresh topper plan, or a mixed plan with their freshly baked recipes for Your special fur baby.

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Uh, so Amber was pushed and pushed and pushed from birth. Essentially. Inside Edition was doing a profile on them.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, because I think that that profile came out after this plot happened.

[Patrick Hines]

Amber was winning twirling competitions at three years old.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I was like, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Why is she even allowed to compete at 3?

[Julian Benzavalli]

More trophies than she knows what to do with. More trophies than they have any space for. And can I just tell you, we see Amber, I would say for five minutes over the course of this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

In like, archival footage.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. We never hear her speak. This girl knows not to open her mouth. It's so sa.

[Patrick Hines]

I just like, do it and win the awards and win the trophies and.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Do it for her mother. She never has a smile on her face. And I'm not saying she has a smile if she doesn't want to. I'm just saying she doesn't ever look happy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And like, as a parent, how can you look at your kid who's clearly not enjoying this and be like, we're gonna make you do it anyway.

[Patrick Hines]

Because there's a difference. I think there's a lot of nuance here because you have. If you want to be the best at something physical, you have to start from the very beginning.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You really have to put the work in. You have to sacrifice. You can't always go to the dance. You can't always do this. I totally understand that. But like, I. When I was in grade school, I went to school with two sisters who were both gymnasts.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

They couldn't do anything and they were miserable, of course. And they were definitely like Olympic caliber. I think one of the sisters actually really did go very, very, very far in that world.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, the eighth grade play was the biggest deal. And like, the girl in my class, like, couldn't do it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We call her Genevieve.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. Genevieve couldn't do it because her mom wouldn't let her miss gymnastics, and she was miserable. And the teachers was like, no, because we did Sound of Music. The teachers. No, that, like, everyone in the class is doing the eighth grade play. Everyone looks forward to it. So she was a nun in the Sound of Music, and they just, like, put her in scenes, but she couldn't come to any rehearsal.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Are you gonna tell them about Liesl, or am I gonna tell them about Liesl?

[Patrick Hines]

You can tell them.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Gillian was so good that they double cast this bitch. Not her, the bitch. This bitch being the show. And they had two casts. Jillian was cast as Liesl for both.

[Patrick Hines]

Performances for the day show and the night show.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That's wild.

[Patrick Hines]

And then everyone wanted the night show. It was not fun. You think that's a good.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Really?

[Patrick Hines]

It was great. But no one was nice to me.

[Julian Benzavalli]

With it being a start. It's. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

It's really lonely at the top. In the 8th grade production of Sound of Music, please.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We did one of our live shows. It was when we did our Broadway show, and we put a picture of it up. I'm like, this girl did the day show and the night show, ladies and gentlemen.

[Patrick Hines]

But you do have to sacrifice stuff. But, like, looking at this, My. This girl in my class and her sister, they were unhappy.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they had to miss all the fun things. And sometimes, again, again, I know people who have kids in sports or whatever or even music or anything. You have to work hard. You have to make sacrifices. But these two girls were miserable. And they would say as much.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. And so. But it's the same thing with Shanna and Amber. Like, they. I mean, I can't speak for Amber. Like, we don't know. She's not here. But Shannon did not enjoy being pushed into this world. But interestingly, Shanna and Amber, they go to the same private school. They realize they live on the same street, and they become best friends.

[Patrick Hines]

They're friends. Like Amber's brother was Shannon's first crush. Their besties.

[Julian Benzavalli]

This was a shock for me because, like, spoiler alert, these are the people that the tries to hire somebody to kill.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the girls were friends.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's all about. It becomes about the moms.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But the other thing that I wanted to say about Verna, just to give her a little bit of props, is that Shanna says, my mom and Verna.

[Shanna]

Were friends at one time. And Verna actually helped my mom because she was a single mom and she needed help getting us to school. So being that Verna Lived around the corner. She would pick us up, take us to school.

[Julian Benzavalli]

In the mornings, Verna would pick up all the kids and drive them all to school. And I'm sure that for the single mom, that was really helpful.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, because they were best friends. They were doing the same kinds of things. Like, I think maybe. And, parents, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure there's a lot of politics here, but it's sort of a little bit inevitable that the moms would at least be civil. When the daughters are besties a million percent.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And, like, they live in the neighborhood. Like, we're talking bridge nights. Like, come on.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean. Suddenly, 1955, we're having key parties over here.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we're in the 70s.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But, you know, also, we get this little moment where Shanna is like, amber wanted my life, and I wanted Amber's life. Because the thing that Shanna sort of hints at here is that her kind of wishes Amber was her daughter. Because Amber's the star.

[Patrick Hines]

Amber's excellent at this. She's, like, the biggest competition in. In town. Like, everyone knows who Amber is.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So 1989, it's cheerleading tryouts. Shanna is in the seventh grade. Shannon, Amber are both in seventh grade. And it's her first time trying out for the squad.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Now, there is something very important that gets told here. Remember, Shanna and Amber were going to this private school. They are all going to be going to this public school for seventh grade. But in order to qualify to be on the. The cheerleading squad in seventh grade, you have to be at that public school in sixth grade. So that is a rule. That is a rule that Wanda and Shanna follow.

[Patrick Hines]

So Shanna did go to the school for sixth grade.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She leaves the private school early and go and does the right thing so she can be there in sixth grade. So she can try out for the cheerleading squad in seventh grade.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is the big cheerleading squad. To be on the seventh grade cheerleading squad. Because it'll lead you to other things. So this is very important. Shanna did follow the rules. She went to that school for sixth grade so that she could qualify to audition in seventh grade. Amber did not go to that school. Amber, as per the rules, is not qualified to try out for the squad because she's.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Amber is also going to be going to the school in seventh grade, but she didn't transfer in sixth grade to make herself eligible to audition for the cheerleading squad.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, this is all great news for Shannon's mom, Wanda, Because Amber, with Amber out of the way. Shanna is for sure going to make the squad.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Amber's super talented. She's fierce competition. She's the biggest competition around.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Shanna and her mom are super happy with how Shanna's audition goes. Because remember, Shanna's tryout? She's allowed to do it because she went to the school in sixth grade.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yep. And they go and they do it, and they're really super happy. And as they're walking out, they see Amber and Amber's mom walking in to try out. Remember, they should not be allowed to try out because she did not qualify because she did not go to the school in sixth grade.

[Patrick Hines]

Wanda's literally, like, she doesn't even go here. What is she doing?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

As per the rules, Amber does not go to school. The school she cannot try out. Those are the rules. Wanda loves rules.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wanda loves rules.

[Patrick Hines]

And the rules are working in her favor. Amber, you didn't go to the school in sixth grade. My daughter did. She's going to make the squad. You can't. Oh, so sorry.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Sorry, girl. But then they find out Verna Heath.

[Terry]

Amber's mother, had gone to the school board, unbeknownst to Wanda Holloway, and asked them if. If Amber could participate in the tryouts for cheerleader, even though she was not technically enrolled in a Channel View public school at that time. And the school board said yes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And not only do they let Amber audition, she takes the spot that Shanna would have gotten.

[Patrick Hines]

Shanna doesn't make the squad, and Amber does.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And because of the system, because it's a voting system and only two people can be accepted, we see the tallies. So if Amber didn't audition, then Shanna would have been number two. But Amber auditioned, and whether she got number one, number two, we don't know. But now there's no room for Shanna because.

[Patrick Hines]

Because just to hit it home, because Amber's mom.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Had a meeting and made them change the rules for Amber. She was the exception to the rule.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Let me just say that, like, Shanna made a big sacrifice transferring out of her school a year early to go to this new school where she didn't know anybody, to do it the right way to make her eligible to be on the cheerleaders. Right. It's not a small thing that she, like, she. It's a year of school. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. It is a wildly unfair and frustrating thing that happens, especially when you're Wanda, whose whole life is rules. She followed the rules. These people didn't follow the rules. And now the. Her kid is on the squad and my daughter isn't.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But now. So this is where we take a left turn, because this is the first place that Shannon's like, I don't know. I was kind of relieved. I didn't really want to do it.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, because what she said. And then I just go, like, once we learn that Shannon does not make the squad, but Amber does. I. In my notes, I just have. Oh, no.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, because you're kind of like, I might hire a hitman, too.

[Patrick Hines]

Shanna says my mom decided that since they didn't play fair, she didn't have to play fair either. Yes, but this is also where we learned Shanna hates cheerleading. She hates football. She. What is the point? Just jumping around trying to get people interested in football. Is that necessary? No.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And she's like, you could have asked me as a cheerleader, like, what would. Defense, offense. I would have had no idea. It'd be like I was a cheerleader.

[Patrick Hines]

She hates cheerleading. She hates the action of cheerleading. She hates the things she's cheering for, which is football. She hates competitions.

[Shanna]

The thought of having to get up in front of judges, I think it would send me into, like, little panic attacks. But I didn't realize I was having panic attacks at the time. Time just kind of a feeling of dread.

[Patrick Hines]

She hated going in front of the judges.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what should have cheerleaders the spring musical. Wouldn't that be great? You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

But then it's like, but before singing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, but you're not the cheerleader. And double let. You know what I mean.

[Patrick Hines]

No, but if I'm.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You're just double let you get the star dressing room. We know. It's.

[Patrick Hines]

I did not. Can you imagine? It was in the gym, in the locker room downstairs, and it smelled.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But I'm just saying everyone knows what's going on in the spring musical. You know, I mean.

[Patrick Hines]

But here's what Shanna says. I'm like, oh, this is not just, like, I don't feel like it. Not saying. And even if she doesn't feel like it, she's three years old. She shouldn't be twirling. Twirling competitions anyway. Whatever. But Shanna explains, like, now she knows that it was a panic attack. But back then, as a teenager, she didn't know. So she would be going up in front of the judges dreading. She hated, top to bottom, everything about cheerleading.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely hated it. And it was giving her panic attacks and affecting her mental health. But she didn't do it like. But she couldn't stop because her mother, like, refuses to let her stop.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. And I just. My note here is like, my heart.

[Patrick Hines]

Just breaks for her because Shanna says, mom, I hate this. Like, my stomach hurts, my chest hurts. I hate this. And her mother basically says, too bad. Too much money, too much effort, too much time. You're doing it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I just. I can't imagine. I just can't imagine saying that to Daisy.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. And then Shanna says, okay, well, if you want to cheer so badly, you should do it yourself.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Go do it yourself.

[Patrick Hines]

And this, this is another movie that I. I promise you, not in a million years would you guess that I'd be referencing right now.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Okay. All right.

[Patrick Hines]

The Joy Luck Club. There is a sc. The Joy Luck Club. Ashley and I used to quote it all the time. This little queen diva, this little actress, she's like 8 years old and it's like she's the chess star and the chess champion. And her mother's like bragging all around town that she's like the chess champion. And she like, is really. They're like walking down the street and she's really mad. This little diva queen, you dropped your crown. Oh my God. And she. Her delivery, she's like, why do you have to use me to show off? And it like, be. If you want to show off, why don't you learn to play chess? And she holds. She like hisses the S's. Ashley and I, we'd like pass each other in high school and be like, why don't you learn to play chess? This little.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Superstar diva in the movie the Joy Luck Club.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Can I tell you something? My daughter has learned how to play chess and she's fucking great at it.

[Patrick Hines]

Really?

[Julian Benzavalli]

We played chess last night. No, I'm an idiot. I don't know how to play these things. Daisy is like, she has never played chess before.

[Patrick Hines]

She should probably learn the rules. Cuz she's probably just saying she won. Kids do that all the time.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, that is something she would do. Like, I. I've learned the rules. Like, but I just mean, like, you have to really think ahead in this game.

[Patrick Hines]

And I literally why they say you're playing chess and not checkers.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Literally. Daisy's like, she'll be like, check, check. Like as in checkmate.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? I check you, girl. I don't believe this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She, look, I'm going to play again tonight when we get home. Cuz I got to win once. I played with her four times. I've lost every time.

[Patrick Hines]

But do you know, like, you know?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I do. The rook can only go forward. The bishop can only go diagonal. The queen can go in any direction as far as it wants to go.

[Patrick Hines]

The horse can go two up, one over right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Or one up, two over. The king can go in any direction, but only one. And then the pawn can go in its first move, either two or one, but after that, only one. And it can only take somebody out on the deck.

[Patrick Hines]

And the queen is that girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, and the queen is that girl. The queen could do anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But if you get a pawn all the way to the other side, it becomes a queen.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That's like one of the pawn comes out of the closet.

[Patrick Hines]

The queen.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It was meant to be one of.

[Patrick Hines]

The cuntiest moves in board games.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She did it to me last night.

[Patrick Hines]

If the pawn can make it all the way, and the pawns are. That's why they say, like, oh, I'm a pawn in this game.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They're used as throwaway pieces, but if you're smart, if you really know how to play chess. Now this is a chess podcast.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yep. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

If you really, really know how to play chess, and if you can make that happen, that's like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Can I tell you what Daisy said as she put the pawn away and picked out the new queen? Do you know what she said? She put it on the board and I quote, yes, queen.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's. That's in the rule book. I think that's the official.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's the savagery. It's just the straight up savagery. I know.

[Shanna]

Travel down, girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Home Chef is back. We've got our home Chef in our fridge tonight. We're having the turkey smash tacos. As soon as I get home.

[Patrick Hines]

Here's the thing. People don't always respect your time. Like, other meal kits don't necessarily respect your time because they're like, oh, hey, hey, here's this really easy, really quick thing. And then you're sitting there for 90 minutes cooking your meal. No, no, no. Home Chef respects your time, and I appreciate that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Absolutely. They deliver fresh ingredients, and Chef designed recipes conveniently to your doorstep to simplify your cooking experience.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. We're streamlining dinner time. Everyone get into it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Get in.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Get this, girl. Users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. You know, we love it. We live by Home Chef in our house.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because they have all of these different options.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So if you're into the classic meal kits with Pre portioned ingredients. They quick 30 minute recipes. They have oven ready options, they have microwavable meals or they have a dedicated family menu.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yep. We're talking over 30 options a week. And serving a variety of dietary needs. There are times I try to go back into the gluten free and it's right there for you.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so easy. And did you know that Home Chef customers save an average of 86 bucks a month on groceries?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. It's insane.

[Patrick Hines]

And you're not wasting food, right?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wasting food, you're not wasting time, you're not wasting money.

[Patrick Hines]

Please.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And cooking is actually fun. It turns out so new.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. So fam. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 18 free free meals plus free dessert for life. That's my favorite part. And of course, free shipping.

[Patrick Hines]

On your first box, go to homechef.com.

[Julian Benzavalli]

TCO that's homechef.com TCO for 18 free meals and free dessert for life.

[Patrick Hines]

Homechef.com TCO and must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That free dessert is right there. You eat it while you're putting the rest of it away.

[Patrick Hines]

For life.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. For the. You're gonna do that for the rest of your life.

[Patrick Hines]

For life.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Girl. Ritual is back. Let me tell you something. Something insane.

[Patrick Hines]

Please.

[Julian Benzavalli]

97% of women aged 19 to 50 are not getting enough vitamin D from their diet.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Well, here's the thing though.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Rituals essential for women 18 + was shown to increase vitamin D levels by 43% in a clinical study.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So that is wild. Look. The ritual multivitamin for women 18/ plus is made with high quality and traceable key ingredients in clean bioavailable forms. That's the whole thing that we've been saying for eight years. They are traceable and transparent. You know what you're putting in your body?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's nine key nutrients that you need. Get them in two delayed release capsules per day that optimize your body's absorption. And the thing about those capsules, one, they're minty fresh.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is very nice in the morning.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That's my drag name. It's been a minute.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. And. But they're gentle on an empty stomach.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the thing. You don't want to be taking these things that are like packed full of nutrients and then like you're out for the count because your stomach hurts. No.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we're not doing that anymore.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, we're not. You're going to. You're going to. You're going to take the thing that's on the label.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

That's ritual.com tco for 25% off.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Minty Fresh, you say?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's a game changer. I hate taking pills so much.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Minty Fresh really changes everything.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We have to crush it up and put it in Daisy's yogurt. Not with ritual.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, I was like, golden.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So, okay, 1990. We're at the ruler incident.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So, Shannon, this is one of the.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Things I've been looking forward to talking with you about for about two weeks now. So let's really do this.

[Patrick Hines]

Shanna was overruled by her mother. She still.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She was over what?

[Patrick Hines]

She was overruled. I know. You're welcome. Shannon hates it. She. She told her mother she doesn't want to cheer anymore. Her mom says too bad.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the mother is optimistic because there are more spots this time around because we're trying out again.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

1989. Now, remember, Shanna still hates this. No one cares about that. There is now a cheerleading election. By God, Torrance was right. It really is a cherocracy.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You guys, when I tell you that, like, my jaw was on the ground when I learned you vote. You can campaign. You campaign for cheerleader.

[Patrick Hines]

This is the messiest bullshit. It's insane and ridiculous. So you were screened by a team of college cheerleaders.

[Terry]

So Shanna was selected by that committee to be a candidate.

[Shanna]

If you made it past the judges, you tried out in front of the student body. And then the students would get to vote for who they liked the best.

[Patrick Hines]

Torrance, she had it, all right? It really is a chirocracy, but, like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Elected, like, you're right. You're running for cheerleader you're running for cheerleader.

[Patrick Hines]

After you make it through those judges, they turn it over to the student body, and the students get to vote. This is the most insane, manic, unhinged behavior. You think high school kids are voting on talent? They're voting for their friends.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, this is an actual election. Cheerleaders are campaigning.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But this is why you should be allowed to campaign. We learned for this year and this year alone, the school board makes the bullshit decision. You can't give candy.

[Patrick Hines]

But this isn't about athleticism. If I'm.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Look, you gotta win. You gotta win. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

But the cheerleader.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, you could be the most charming person in the world, but you. Can you cheer?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, I doesn't know.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you do a herky and a kick and all that stuff? Can you be at the top of the pyramid? I want my cheerleaders to be the best of the best.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I agree. But like they say, we learn that things have gone badly in the past because you're not allowed to give out candy. You're not allowed to give out money.

[Patrick Hines]

Or anything that people want.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But, like, people were buying votes to be cheerleaders.

[Patrick Hines]

This is, like, just a breeding ground for even more mean girl shit. I know. Think it's completely unhinged. I think it's insane.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I think you. I couldn't believe it as we were going through it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And because Shannon's mom is so manic about the whole thing, before these rules went into effect, she had had rulers made with Shannon. Like, vote for Shanna for cheerleader or whatever. But now they're not allowed to use them because you can't use anything with, like, a printed name on it.

[Patrick Hines]

The school thinks that a ruler is the same as money or candy or anything else that someone actually does.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, you're just walking out of the hallway with fives. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

And Wanda's like, I already bought the rulers. And the school's like, too bad.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Too bad. Now that girl that didn't go here can still app and get your kids spot on the cheer team.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the thing. So I remember. I'm not defending Wanda at all, but this is a woman who is one on the verge. Like, was kind of always on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's literally a woman on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Robbie Roselle, that was for you.

[Patrick Hines]

You're welcome. And now, rules. All she does is follow the rules. And every time she tries, they're like, the rules are betraying Her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, I know. I know. This woman is living on the edge, and the rules are betraying her, and she's a rules person.

[Patrick Hines]

So Wanda says, well, I already bought the rulers. The school says, too bad. So Wanda says, like, whatever.

[Terry]

Wanda needed to make some little voting promotion signs. I think she had some signs shaped like a megaphone made out of cardboard that said Shanna on them, but she didn't have any sticks. So Wanda decided to use the rulers that had Shanna's name printed on them to affix to the sign.

[Patrick Hines]

Wanda makes these vote for Shanna signs. That is allowed, but she uses the rulers as the stick for the sign.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But, like, she knew she wasn't allowed to. You know what I mean? She cannot help herself, right?

[Patrick Hines]

And they're not allowed because they're like a gift. There's, like, something you can use. I'm like, I would take candy over a ruler or five.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Give me a five.

[Patrick Hines]

You could use a five for a ruler.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

If you use it gently enough, it's fine. So Wanda uses the rulers for the sticks, for the signs. This gets Shanna disqualified.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Now, here's what I have to say about that. Notice what you said? You said Wanda uses the rulers to make the sign. If Shanna were up all night making these signs and getting the rulers and campaigning, like, great. She's not doing any of that. Her mother is the only one who gives a shit about any of this. She's making all the signs. She's adhesing the rulers to the signs.

[Patrick Hines]

She win against Amber's mother. It's about the moms now. And it's like the Salem Witch Trials. They haul Shanna out of class, send her to the principal's office. She's presented with the sign and the ruler. She's like, more weight. I don't fucking know. More.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wait. Giles. The Giles Corey of it all.

[Patrick Hines]

But Shanna is upset. But she says, like, she was upset for her mother.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wait. It's dark in there.

[Patrick Hines]

They just like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's dark in there.

[Patrick Hines]

They just, like, show her the ruler. Like, what do you have to say for yourself? And she's like, I don't.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's like, I don't want to do any. I don't want to do this.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, can I be relieved yet? Do I finally not have to do this for once?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So. But Shanna says to us now.

[Shanna]

And I went to the bathroom. I cried in the stall for my mom. Part of me was relieved. Part of me was really upset because we had put a lot of effort and energy and work into doing this. And again, it fails.

[Patrick Hines]

Her mom put so much into, quote, making me successful. Shanna, girl, you were the one doing the backflips.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And, And, And. And putting all the work in.

[Julian Benzavalli]

At the end of the day, this is the second year that she's not going to be a cheerleader. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Because of rules.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because of rules. Rules and rulers.

[Patrick Hines]

Rules and rulers. You know, the betrayal.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The betrayal.

[Patrick Hines]

But even she says she's like, this is so stupid. It's a fucking ruler, right? So Shannon's like, whatever. I'm not that girl. I'm not gonna cause a fit. I'm just gonna cry in the bathroom.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Somebody says, nobody knows who blew the whistle, but it could.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course it was. Are you kidding me?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Blew the whistle on ruler gate.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, you are forcing your daughter into twirling competitions at three years old.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You are getting the school board to make exceptions. You are absolutely playing dirty and pulling some shit left, right, and center. Are you kidding me?

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, no, no. I totally agree.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, 100%.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, what is Verna's thought process for convince What? For the greater good of the squad. To get the exception. To have your daughter be the exception to the rule.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And the other thing, too, Verna, while we're fudgeing here, Verna. It's not like Shanna getting on means that Amber isn't going to get on. Amber's getting on no matter what, Right? She's just, like, trying to make hell for Wanda.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, these moms would do anything for their kids to be on top.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, notice I didn't say anything for their kids. For their kids to be 100%. So Wanda's talking shit all over town. She hates Amber. She hates. Who's the kid? She hates the mother. She hates the school system. She hates the cheerleading squad. Everything's unfair. And let me tell you, I'm not defending her, but if we're looking at this on paper, she's not 100% wrong.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's not. But then we cut to a clip from the Maury Povich Show.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julian Benzavalli]

From, like, after the fact, where Verna is on the Maury Povich show being like, yes, there was tension. She would watch Amber with her arms.

[Patrick Hines]

Folded and comment, oh, well, she's going too fast.

[Shanna]

But as far as I know, they never talked about it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Did you ever think about having a conversation with Wanda? I did not feel like confronting her. It was trivial to me. It was trivial to me. Like, oh, that's how.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what you do. That's how you handle it. I'm sorry, what's your name again? Have we met?

[Julian Benzavalli]

One million percent.

[Patrick Hines]

So Verna's playing. Look, these are mean girls who are growing up and playing mean girl shit when they're grown. Adult woman.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But the other thing, too is that Amber is sitting next to her mother on the Maury Povich show. And she's sitting there looking like. She looks so unhappy. She looks like she'd rather be anywhere else. This is not about her and her happiness at all.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, did Amber want to. Just because you're amazing at something doesn't mean you should do it. So I'm sure Amber put in the work. She was great. She was winning competition since she's three, which I think is sick.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's January 30, 1991. Shanna comes home from school. She's like, I thought I'd have to do this anymore. I got disqualified from everything possible. And I'm also kicked out of the.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Chirocracy because her mother wants her to go to the garage and practice her cheer routine for next year's tryouts. I'm like, girl, at that point, she's going to be a fudgeing junior on the, on the cheer squad for the first time. Like, it's not going to happen.

[Patrick Hines]

And that is unfair.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, it's totally unfair.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but like, come on now.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So Shanna is doing her. She's rehearsing her routines or whatever in this, like, designated cheer area. That was the garage.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The cheer area. Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

She's there and she notices, like, these two creeps in a car across the street.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, oh my God, this is actually perfect.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I have to go inside because if I stay outside, they'll kidnap me. So I. Oh no. I literally, I cannot. I can't stop because these guys are such creeps. They're gonna kidnap me.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Meanwhile, the mother would much rather run the risk of getting kidnapped.

[Patrick Hines]

100%, you know what I mean? So Shannon goes, yeah. Her mom comes home from running errands, and suddenly the two men from the car are in the house. Guess what, everyone, they're cops. And they take Shanna's mother because we learn the state had filed charges against her for solicitation of capital murder, seeking to hire a hitman to kill her daughter's cheerleader rival's mother hiring a hitman to kill Amber's mom, Verna.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, oh, my go.

[Patrick Hines]

And there was also talk of kidnapping Amber and quote, selling her into slavery and sex trafficking.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, okay? I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we have to talk about this piece of shit, Terry Harper.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Who?

[Patrick Hines]

Shannon's uncle. It's her father's brother. He is an all around bad guy. Piece of shit.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, he, like you said, Tony's brother. They call him a ne'er do well, which is not a word I know how to spell.

[Patrick Hines]

There's an apostrophe in it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Or d'oeuvre.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's like N, E, apostrophe. Er, Like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

It was be like never. Oh, ne'er do well.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because order was like H, apostrophe O.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't see UVRAs if you're saying.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I got as far as the H and then I. And then you lost me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know, but Terry had started having problems with the law at 13 or 14. But, like for possession of marijuana. Like.

[Patrick Hines]

Like 14 year old.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

But he was. I mean, this is. I. When we learn we're not defending this piece of shit. He's an asshole. But, you know, DUIs, in and out of jail. He was like. They call him, you know, the outcast of the family.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But they say he, quote, he's not the murderer type, he's just the rapist type. We'll find out in a little bit.

[Patrick Hines]

They say he's not a mass murderer, but single murder.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, right, exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Rapist. So let's rewind. Five weeks before the arrest. There's the family Christmas party. Now, Wanda had been secretly talking to Terry for weeks. Wanda wasn't welcome at the party because she's on the outs with seemingly everybody. Family drama. She can't go to the party.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Can you imagine Wanda getting drunk at a Christmas party? And like, what would go down? Yes. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, like the stuff of legends.

[Julian Benzavalli]

A jello mold is getting thrown.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because she doesn't eat. Lord knows.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no. Like, I hope, like, can Shanna eat at least?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I hope so.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? So Wanda isn't going to the party because of all this family drama. She sends Shanna to the party with a note for Uncle Terry.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, what? So we learn that Wanda and Terry are in cahoots. Now what? Wanda. I'm like, in cahoots about what? But they tell us that they're working together for some nefarious reason.

[Terry]

Yeah, but there was something Wanda didn't know. Terry was working with the cops.

[Patrick Hines]

Terry has Been talking to the cops.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, it's so dirty.

[Patrick Hines]

So Flint Blackwell, Lower Third, arrested my mom in Shanna's handwriting.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Flint is a character, by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

He says that Uncle Terry came to them and Uncle Terry goes, my ex sister in law just asked me to hire a hitman. Is that anything? And they're like, terry what?

[Julian Benzavalli]

But they also kind of don't believe.

[Patrick Hines]

Him because Terry's Terry. Terry's going around town for being.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. Well, with that apostrophe and everything. Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

A skell. You know a skel?

[Julian Benzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's a word my dad will use, like. Oh, he's such a sk. Like a creep. Disgusting skel.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Your family knows all the words.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like herbs. Herb. If I told my dad would be. If I said herb, he'd be like, a skel. And I'm like, no, a skel.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, no, no.

[Patrick Hines]

A skull's like. You cover your drink. Like, kind of scary. Like Richie April from the Sopranos is a skel. I know. You know, but a herb is like, you fucking loser Herb. Get out of my way. Herb.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I can name 10 off the top of my head.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, eat easy, you know, Travel down, girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Quince is back. These are all those, like, high quality but affordable sweaters that we're obsessed with. Can I tell you a quick story? I love my Quinn sweater at my sister's at Christmas. And she just told me today that her boyfriend intentionally did not tell me that I left it there because he wanted it there for himself.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, wow.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Thief. Absolute thievery.

[Patrick Hines]

Here's the thing, though. It's sweaters. It's also active wear. They have these moisture wicking bras and leggings. They're designed to move with you during your workout because if you know, you know, you know. I'm not going through that again.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

They also have, like really cute jogger outfits. Like a cute matching, like, top and jogger. And my favorite thing of all time. And you know this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's the Revive Nylon camera crossbody bag.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I. You were just talking about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Obsessed with it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Because you can have it like long or you can have it like how the cool girls wear it, like right across their chest, which I can't pull off. But you can do it if you wanted to.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I always tell people, just go to the Quint's website and look at all the stuff they have. It is like, so well priced. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices, which we deeply care about.

[Patrick Hines]

That Means you can sleep well at night when you're wearing their super comfortable pajamas. Oh, my God. And they're like the fancy hotel pajamas where they have like the white piping.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah. Totally. So comfortable.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But also the way they keep it affordable, they partner directly with top factories and they cut out the cost of the middlemen passing savings on to you. They don't have to do that, but they're doing it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And of course, they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every piece. And it's true.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I've never met a person who I've convinced to go to their website who hasn't loved all their stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

It's true.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

There's something for everyone there.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Truly. So, fam, upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to quince.com tco for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That's Q u I n c e.com TCO to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Patrick Hines]

Quince.com TCO go to the website.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You're going to love it.

[Patrick Hines]

You look so cute already.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You really do look so cute. I love that crossbody bag on you, the way the cool kids wear it.

[Shanna]

Thank you.

[Patrick Hines]

I wore to the airport and I was like, this is what the cool girls on TikTok look like. I'm one of you now. So they're all in disbelief. They're like, your ex. I'm sorry, your ex sister in law asks you to hire a hitman.

[Julian Benzavalli]

They're like, girl, we're going to have you call her right now so we can hear the conversation.

[Patrick Hines]

When I say, they start immediately recording the phone calls. I mean immediately.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The quote from Flint the officer is quote. We briefed him really good on what to say and we hooked him up.

[Patrick Hines]

To the phone, the pay phone in the parking lot. Like this minute, I just saw this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Image of them like hooking him up to the phone booth. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah. Like they're hooking him up. Not. What technology is this in 1991, by the way?

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's like Radio Shack.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure, like a Casio keyboard.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We briefed him really good on what to say and then we opened him up.

[Patrick Hines]

They wire him up to the payphone in the parking lot.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I don't know why that's so funny to me.

[Shanna]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like attached to the payphone.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, it's like he's electrically like. You know what I mean? Because then they have him call her. We hear the entire call, right?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, Terry lays a trap that Wanda saunters right into because he's like, hey, Wanda, you still taking care of that problem?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Uh huh. All right, well, I'm gotten in touch.

[Patrick Hines]

With someone for you and.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But I need to know exactly what you want. I know exactly what it's going to take.

[Patrick Hines]

So when can I get with you? Are you still interested in solving that problem? Wanda's like, you betcha. And he's like, okay, state your name and your date of birth and your.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Social Security number and the crime you'd like me to commit.

[Patrick Hines]

And tell me in as much detail as possible exactly what you want and what the transfer of goods and services will be. So you want to what? You're gonna pay me to what?

[Julian Benzavalli]

But the other thing too is when we. When Flint is now, we hear both sides of the conversation. But I don't know what kind of technology they hooked him up to the payphone with. Cause Flint's like, well, we only heard his side. And I was like, flint, why am I hearing both sides? Because you hooked him up real good to the payphone.

[Patrick Hines]

Because what happens is they meet up and Wanda lays it all out in the Grandees parking lot. So what we hear is like the tape recorder that's in the backseat of the car. That's what we start hearing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Kind of like Flint. I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't hear that first phone call.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Patrick Hines]

So when we get. But Uncle Terry is. That piece of shit is wearing a wire. But they're in his car in the parking lot and Wanda is laughing a lot. We hear her on this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So we learn. It'll be 7,500 for both murders. $5,000 for Amber, the girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

2,500 for her mother, Verna. To which Wanda says on tape, that mother, she ain't worth crap, is she? I know Wanda is having the time of her life. Based on this audio, what I'm hearing in this context. Wanda's having a grand old time. Her troubles are nearly over.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But what I. What I also say is she never says the words like, okay, I'm gonna get the money. I'm gonna meet you on Monday. She's never like. It's never a definite. It does to me sound a little bit like she's not completely sure she wants to do this. But the cops are taking what I'm hearing and they're saying she was just.

[Patrick Hines]

Going back and forth, back and forth. And, you know, my fear was George's fear was is that she would back out from. From Terry and go and get someone else. And it really happened.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What we think is happening is that Terry's too expensive for her and she's gonna dump Terry and go find somebody else. And then this is actually going to happen.

[Patrick Hines]

She's saying things like, well, maybe I should go with the mother and the kid. Maybe she'd be screwed up without the mother, and maybe it would mess with her mind.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They're trying to figure out the best way to fuck up this girl's opportunity.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And they're also talking like, well, maybe we kill the mom and then we go Nancy Kerrigan on the kid. Like we don't care as long as her legs get busted up.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, so the cops are worried that if Terry doesn't agree to a price or they can't agree on a price, she's going to go and do it elsewhere. And then it's at the murders or the abductions or whatever are actually going to happen.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So they're like, terry, just close the fucking deal.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And you know what he does? And I will not allow this to be walked back.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he goes, you know what? Just give me. What do you have earrings or something? Just the head man says, it's fine. I just called him. It's totally fine. What do you. The earrings that you're wearing are perfect for collateral or whatever because they need some kind of transaction. Transaction to happen.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I'm telling you, it happens. And, like, they're going to try to walk this back later. I will not. I will. The whole last third of this movie makes no sense to me because she paid for the services, she gives him.

[Patrick Hines]

The earrings, and she leaves thinking that the murders and. Or sex trafficking will happen.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And the next day, she's arrested.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the cops hear what they need to hear in the parking lot. The transaction happens. The transfer of goods for potential services.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And the services, again, being violence or sex trafficking or murder.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever the hitman can do.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We hear the cop tell us about, like, when they go to get her.

[Patrick Hines]

And I said, look, you know, you're under arrest for solicitation of capital murder for Verna Heath. And she said, oh, really? I said, oh, really? She goes, am I going to jail? I said, yeah. She said, well, let me go change clothes. I said, no, ma'am. We got clothes for you downtown. No, sweetheart, we have clothes for you down at the county jail.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. It's the most surreal thing I've ever heard in my life. Also, we see a piece of that clip from the Holly Hunter movie later, and I'm like, oh, this is perfect.

[Patrick Hines]

It's perfect. So good, Wanda to tell Shanna, her daughter, that she's been arrested for hot checks because, quote, clearly she's not going to understand any of this. I'm like, why? Because she's a girl. She's not an idiot.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But I do mean she's not going to understand it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I'm with you, but I think that it will be much less traumatized. I mean, she's going to find out eventually.

[Patrick Hines]

Say you're going to protect her feelings. Don't say she won't get it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's dumb.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, her brain's too small.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's a girl, you said. Yeah, just tell her hot chat. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, you can't do the weak arms thing because she's a fudgeing gymnast, so I don't want to hear that part. Now Wanda calls her husband, her new husband.

[Julian Benzavalli]

News to me that she's married.

[Patrick Hines]

We just found out she's married again. And tells him smartly to get a lawyer, and off they go to the jailhouse.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Wanda was just fine. Like, the cops are like. I kind of felt like she was a little disappointed that this meant that it didn't go through in the end.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know, here's my thing. Here's my thing. In my mind, she paid for the hit. I think she's probably relieved to find out that it didn't happen. You know what I mean? I mean, it doesn't mean she didn't do the crime. You know, it's like she. Like, I think she's on the hook for this murder, you know, if it.

[Patrick Hines]

If it happened.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But I think she's on the. On the hook for the intent for this murder. She paid for it.

[Patrick Hines]

She's on tape. And we'll hear more of the tape coming up with all of these grand plans of, like, terror and trauma.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I. Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But, like, instantly this becomes a national news story.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, she's known as the pom Pom mom. Wasn't the Nancy Grace, which is, like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So dumb, but we obviously could have done better. You know what I mean? I just feel like. I mean, like, what's the movie actually called? The.

[Patrick Hines]

The, like, very weird.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The Mostly True Adventures of the Allegedly Texas Cheerleader Murdering mom or whatever. Like, I mean, that's exact. But that's exactly what this should be called.

[Patrick Hines]

Is easier to say Pompom mom is.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You can make the headline.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. If it Were me, I'd be like, the cheer queer.

[Patrick Hines]

The cheer queer.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

People are mystified. They are stupefied. They cannot believe this has happened.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wouldn't you be? You know what I mean? Like, this is the wildest thing you've ever heard.

[Patrick Hines]

I wonder if there are some, like, crazy stage moms who are like, damn, that's a good idea.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, man.

[Patrick Hines]

I would have gotten away with it, though.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. It's not worth it to get your 14 year old to play Mama Rose.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, my God. You know what I mean?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Look, reporter reporters are harassing Shanna, which is not okay.

[Shanna]

I remember being chased by media off the school property and halfway to my house. I remember finding out that one of the people that I thought was a close friend of mine was selling yearbook photos to the media.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Friends are selling yearbook photos to the press.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, not okay.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Not okay.

[Patrick Hines]

And we see Shanna's diary.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, diary. Mom told me that she was gone all day yesterday because she had talked with Uncle Terry about killing. Killing Amber's mom. She could go to jail. I really hope she doesn't. Shanna, that's like a note you leave when you're like, hey, I ran out to buy bread.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Right back.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, but I guess maybe the thing that Shannon never says here is. Yeah, I'm not shocked. I'm not shocked.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, so. Because Wanda gets out of jail and she's home as she waits trial, right? And Shanna is feeling absolutely everything you could feel.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

She's sad, she's confused, she's guilty, she feels scared. She's like, am I safe here?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, who is her mother now? What is her mom capable of?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So she's feeling. And she says, shit.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Dad is nowhere to be seen.

[Patrick Hines]

Nowhere to be seen. And Shanna is also blaming herself. Cause she's like, if I just made the squad, none of this would happen.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

If I was good enough to just beat Amber, we wouldn't be here. And I'm like, shanna.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yep. No, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean. And of course not. But her mother has set her up all of her life to feel guilty. You know what I mean? Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But now, though, because of this mess, Shanna is in the custody of her dad, Right? And she was never comfortable with him. And she was scared of him. She goes, it wasn't respectful. It was fear.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And we see more of this guy. This guy. The dad is on Larry King. Larry King is back and looking like a Million bucks. I know the dad is awful, and he's saying he's trying to get primary custody of the kids. Like, you know, that he doesn't give a shit about that.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and it's. It's interesting, based on what we find out later.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, there's a reason why he wants custody.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's August 1991. The trial starts. There are no cameras in the courtroom, but the cameras can peer through the windows, which is.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, that's very poor planning.

[Patrick Hines]

No audio, just cameras through the window windows. Like, okay, 1991. What is.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Can you imagine if this had been televised?

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, weirdly, there are people now who don't know about this the way they know about the Menendez case or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know, it's crazy, but if it had been televised, it would be up there with a Menendez case.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And we get. We do get a lot of footage because the press was. Was allowed to, like, watch everyone's entrance. And Wanda was dressed to the nines.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God, she looked great.

[Patrick Hines]

Uncle Terry. Piece of shit is the star witness.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. We hear more of the tapes and, like, we hear Wanda saying, they ship.

[Patrick Hines]

Her to Cuba, keep it there 15 years. Okay. I mean, I can't stand a woman.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Terry. You can't stand.

[Patrick Hines]

I cannot stand the woman.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I want her gone.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't stand the woman. Terry, you gotta understand.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, she sounds like a desperate woman at the end of her rope.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the thing is, Ken is a juror, and Ken says it's very clear that Terry hated Wanda.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He was not a fan. And he goes. And he wasn't a particularly nice guy. Like. No, he wasn't. But Terry has this checkered past, and Wanda. The point that they're trying to make in this case is that Wanda. Wanda went to him because of that checkered pass.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

She's on tape laughing about all of this. So in this case, the checkered pass actually works in favor of the prosecution.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And like I was, my note here is, if I'm on that jury, I 100% believe that she wanted these people dead.

[Patrick Hines]

Terry asks her, do you want them dead or just hurt? And she goes, now if all of a sudden her legs just happen to come screwed up.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know if she's talking about the mother or she's saying about the teenage girl. Look, if you could somehow hurt Amber, this teenage girl's legs so bad that she can't cheer anymore. I'm not going to say no to that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Either can. She's a child. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And your daughter doesn't give a shit. Shannon doesn't want this. Like, just let the girls be friends.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What did it take to get Wanda to this level of unhingery?

[Patrick Hines]

I think she was brewing for a while. I do think. I think she was in a shitty, abusive marriage. I think she came from a very repressed family. Rules, rules, rules. You couldn't even go fucking swimming.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think it was brewing for a long time. And I think she thought that, look, if I. My daughter's the best and I train her and I spend all the money and I follow the rules, I'll be able to at the top of the heap. And that's not at all what happened.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

She followed the rules, Amber and Verna didn't. And she couldn't. She just couldn't understand. And it is unfair on paper.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

What happened is unfair, however.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But it's also like, you don't just look for a different school for your kid. You go right to hitman.

[Patrick Hines]

Or you don't realize. You know what? My daughter hates this. Her heart's not in it. She doesn't want it anyway.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

If I want it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Let's get her a trumpet and see what happens.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it's as Kat Williams says, it's esteem of your motherfucking self. It's your self esteem do something for you. If you want to feel good about yourself, why don't you learn to play chess? Exactly as they say in the Joy of Trying. You know, like you do for you. Wanda, your daughter is miserable and her best friend. Now it's ruined. You know how hard it is to be a girl in high school. Let them just be friends.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, why did you have to ruin all of it?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because it was like, I don't think that her daughter is a thought in her mind anywhere.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it's winning and it's the trophies. And then it very quickly and severely turned from beating Verna.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right? Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Not even just Shanna winning the competition over Amber. It's Wanda beating Verna.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's what it became all about. And you can't see when you're like that. She couldn't see.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So the state rests. And they're feeling that these tapes are like incontestable.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, you can hear the hate in her heart because you can hear it. You're not just reading a transcript. You hear her laughing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. She's chuckling.

[Patrick Hines]

She's coming up with ideas. What would cause the most trauma. What Would do this really? Like, what would fuck Amber up mentally? Should we kill her mom? Should we just, like, make her mom go missing? Should we do that?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, huh? I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Come on.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's wild. But now we're going to meet Marla Harper. Mara Harper is Terry's wife. So Terry's like the bad guy here.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's Terry's sixth and seventh wife. Now, everything we're about to hear is directly from the court transcripts, but they've recreated the audio.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. What did you hear your husband say to his brother in that conversation? That he had finally gotten w to.

[Patrick Hines]

Where he wanted her. That Tony was finally going to get his kids. How was Tony gonna get his kids? Well, he said they were gonna burn.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The was his exact words.

[Patrick Hines]

Did they talk about setting up Wanda Holloway? Yes, they did.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Terry and his brother, the ex wife of Wanda, set Wanda up.

[Patrick Hines]

But she also says, more importantly, and firstly, she's terrified of Terry. Yes, he's abusive physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually. He's vindictive, he's manipulative. He. He attacked her for testifying in this very trial. And she's here to explain that. Wanda Holloway.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And the reason she's here to testify is because she knows. She overheard the conversations, according to her, where these two men were talking about how they were gonna set up Wanda.

[Patrick Hines]

And so she. Marla, wrote a letter that is like one of the pieces of evidence that we see.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She goes, terry, you told me when we got back together and everyone else that if you ever for any reason brought a gun back into this house for any reason, you wanted me to leave you. Well, you got it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You're a very dangerous person. And you and everyone else knows it. The only difference is that no one else has to live with you. For my family's peace and safety, I cannot contact them. Like she's. Say she's writing this down. And she also writes, remember when you lied to the police and you were bragging about setting Wanda up? Guess what? I recorded that conversation.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we don't hear that conversation.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Why. Why don't we have that? I mean, maybe she never turned it in if it wasn't. If it wasn't admitted as evidence. Maybe she's lying. Maybe she didn't actually record it.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe she didn't. But I think the conversation might have had happened because here's. This is confusing, but Uncle Terry.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, this is very confusing and doesn't make much sense to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Tony is the ex husband Wanda married in high school. His brother is Uncle Terry. The piece of they were apparently these two guys, Terry and Tony. In this together?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And the story goes that Terry, the brother in law, hit on Wanda. Wanda rats him out to her husband Tony, his brother Terry and Tony get in a fight over Wanda and then they decide to, quote, burn the bitch so that Tony can get full custody of the kids.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right? Now, what doesn't make any sense to me here is there's no question that this guy Tony is a total piece of shit. Marla is going to testify to the horrible things that he did to her. He beat her, he raped her. He is on record saying, I actually don't know if I raped her or not. I was too drunk to remember. Like, like, like what? He's a terrible person. But what I don't understand is that like Wanda's own attorney is going to make some shit up. She's. He's going. She said she went along with the scheme because she was afraid Harper would have somebody murder her and they'd ask.

[Terry]

Her line by line. What did you mean by that? What did you mean when you said you just want her gone? She said, I was just kidding. I just, you know, was going along with Terry. It was like a joke we were having.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But she went along with it because she didn't want Terry and Tony mad at her. We never once hear Wanda on those tapes say, I don't want to do this. We never hear her say, I want to call this office.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the thing. Because like there's more in the tapes where Terry, you could see him laying the traps for Wanda and she's still entertaining it. And now Shanna says, because they dropped this in, they. Shanna says that her dad was super vindictive and was always trying to get like ammunition on Wanda. That, yeah, Shannon would be interrogated about her mother for hours.

[Julian Benzavalli]

My dad was like that, trying to.

[Patrick Hines]

Get dirt on Wanda. Right? Now I believe that. I really do. But where in the tapes is Wanda cleared?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

We have so many tapes and not a single second of that tape has her saying, you're absolutely not. You're a monster. Stop harassing me about this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Hours and hours. How many?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I would never do that. She's a person. Oh my God. That's a child. What is wrong with you?

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone's wrong here.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Tony, Terry and Wanda. Because Wanda not once, not once says, terry, you're out of your mind.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

I hate this woman. I'm just venting to you, right? I don't want this. And certainly don't take my diamond earrings as Payments like, you don't hear her say, you're out of your mind and I'm scared of you and my husband. None of that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Only thing that she will say in her own defense here is that, like, it was a game and she was going along with it.

[Patrick Hines]

We were.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We were all playing a game. And that doesn't make any sense to me because.

[Patrick Hines]

Are they saying also that Wanda never mentioned a hitman?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

This is all suggested to her. So they're telling me that these idiot men would know about her arch nemesis out of the blue and suggest this to her? No, she told them that she hated Verna.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because what is unclear here is we. We learn of Terry and Wanda connecting at that Christmas party. Like, we know that they've been.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to the party. She wasn't allowed to. Drama.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But for the purposes of the documentary, that's the first time we know. It's like, here's my number. Call me. I want to talk to you about something. Somebody else is like, no, no, no. Wanda and Terry had been talking for weeks before that. So I don't really know what to note at the party. It is unclear who brought the idea to who.

[Patrick Hines]

I kind of don't care.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because at no point, Wanda didn't have to go to the meetings. She didn't have to give the earring, have to come up with ideas.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And it's not like he's leading her every single time. Like, he's saying, how do you want her killed? And she's like, shoot her or get her, like, get her delivered to Cuba.

[Patrick Hines]

Or saying, like. Or would it be worse to have Amber go through trauma of not having a mother? Because she probably. I mean, these are the conversations. She's laughing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Having the time of her life.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So this is why I'm saying, like, this is not the I, Tanya, moment they think it is. You know what I mean? This is not the redemption for the mother. She sounds guilty as fuck to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, I don't understand. I just don't.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Even if. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, it was never like, I want you to shoot her in the head. And what? Like, even if it didn't go that far, they're still trying to talk about violence and horrible things happening. And there was a transaction. Exactly.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Why? Why else did she give Terry the earrings?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right. And I'm sorry, but, like, Terry's wife, who's saying, like, it was all a setup and I have the tapes to prove it. We never See them and I never hear them.

[Patrick Hines]

But I believe Marla.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This ex wife because she's ripped apart on the sand because she's an abuse and rape survivor. Which is disgusting.

[Julian Benzavalli]

100%. Your stepfather had raped you.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that correct? That's true.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And your brother had raped you.

[Shanna]

My half brother and several.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Several other people have tried to rape you, have they?

[Patrick Hines]

Not true.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But you told the doctors that you.

[Patrick Hines]

Had trouble distinguishing between the truth and fiction.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I did it for my protection. From Terry. They're trying to say you don't know what's real.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You're making this up. You're vindictive.

[Patrick Hines]

But she has been abused and she's a survivor. 100. And I believe Marla a million percent.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And Terry's like, I don't remember if I raped her or not. Not. Of course, I didn't do that. I would never do you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

So they're trying to make. Oh, crazy Marla. Exactly. No, we don't do.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

But Wanda takes the standard in her own defense.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she says, like, I went along with it because I was afraid Terry would kill me. And I said all of those mean things because I was going along with Terry and I was really scared. And this is why I feel crazy crazy. Because I'm like, what? Terry and Tony are awful people. I'm not discounting that at all. That is a 100% fact. But I'm having trouble with this idea that Wanda was just like, along for the ride.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because how did they even know that she hate. You think Tony gave a shit about anything in Wanda's life or what she cared about or didn't care about?

[Julian Benzavalli]

No. And it's like, so you guys are just role playing Wanda. That what you're saying is like, you get you and Terry sitting in the car, role playing.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Tony wasn't there until we only learned that Tony's involvement after the fact. Tony wasn't in the car.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's just you and Terry. Like, so why else are you meeting up with Terry then?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm so confused.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But this is what I'm saying. Like, this part of the documentary is so confusing because it's like, who came up with this story that. Because her attorney says, no matter how many times she says, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this. She never says that.

[Patrick Hines]

She never says it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She never says that.

[Patrick Hines]

She never says, this is disgusting. I'm getting out of the car. Never call me again.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

That Never came up. She's laughing about it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So the case goes to the jury, and Shayna says, I only went to.

[Shanna]

The trial the day that she was being sentenced. And the reason for that was I wanted to be able to tell her bye if she were found guilty.

[Julian Benzavalli]

If my mom is found guilty and she's sentenced, I want to be able to say goodbye to her. That was heartbreaking to me.

[Patrick Hines]

I know it's heartbreaking. And Wanda's found guilty, and she gets 15 years and a fine of $10,000.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And we see Shayna and her mom hug, and Shane is like, everything in my life changed in that moment. My mom was gone. I was going to have to go live with my dad. I was going to run away because there was no way I was going to live in that environment.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's not over, though, because Wanda's lawyer files a motion for a new trial.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because this is wild.

[Patrick Hines]

One of the jurors was on probation for cocaine possession during the trial. They were on probation.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right. And he, like, either lied on his form or didn't understand that deferred adjudication is probably probation.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he never should have served. Now they're using this to throw out the conviction and start over. But it's weird, though, because this paperwork was there all along because it says.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Deferred adjudication is apparently the same thing as probation. You cannot serve on a jury if you are currently on probation. And he says in his paperwork he's on deferred adjudication. Now people are saying Wanda's team knew about this, and they always have this in their back pocket so in case it didn't go their way, they could get a new trial. But I'm saying I don't think so, because wouldn't they assume the prosecution would have done the same thing?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wouldn't they assume that the prosecution also knew?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because we get, like, all four lawyers going on record saying that they missed it. And it is suspicious. It is convenient timing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And it is interesting that all four of you.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I missed it. Yeah. Because whose job is it to go through? And all of your clerks or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Because they all had to. They all had to say on record. Yeah, I missed it. Which is like. Are you just saying that now?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It is a very weird thing, but it works. She gets a new trial.

[Patrick Hines]

She gets a new trial. And now Wanda's doing a press tour. Yes. Set up. And she had nothing to do with it. And it was bigger than her. And she didn't know how to get out of it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And it's awful because she goes on Donahue, and I remember this. I remember seeing this. I don't know if I saw it in a rerun or whatever, but I've seen this before.

[Patrick Hines]

I love. You're watching reruns of Donahue. You just can't get enough.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Listen, Don, he was great. But you see Shanna sitting next to her mother, and she looks exactly the way Amber looks sitting next to her mother. I'm already.

[Patrick Hines]

Spoiler. It does not go well, this Donahue.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, because at first, Shanna is talking, and she's like, the audience kind of felt sorry for me. But as soon as the mom breaks in, the audience is like, what is wrong with you? What is wrong with you asking all the right questions.

[Patrick Hines]

Because again, there's no audio of her saying, this is preposterous. You're a monster. Get me out of this car. I'm never speaking to you again.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And in the middle of this, Shanna starts high school, which is a nightmare. As if it couldn't get any worse.

[Shanna]

My locker, Amber's locker, and her brother Aaron's locker were all next to each other because it was alphabetical. And I was Harper. They were Heath, and that was a problem.

[Patrick Hines]

Shanna's locker was directly next to Amber's locker and her brother's locker because it was alphabetical. And I'm like, can I an adult in the room? And no one could have gotten ahead of this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. It was shocking to me to realize that she hasn't even started high school yet. It feels like we're at the end of high school. No, she's not even started high school.

[Patrick Hines]

Yet, and now she has to. Because they come next to each other in the Alphabet.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

They have to be like, can we break that rule?

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's so you joke.

[Patrick Hines]

Can we go against that rule?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, what's next?

[Patrick Hines]

You're gonna force them to be lab partners?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, I know. And Shannon's just saying that, like, everyone had a preconceived notion of me, you know? I mean, like, your mom's murder. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She said, I lost myself completely.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Tony, the father, is trying to sell his story to hbo. I type as I watch this documentary on hbo.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So he needs Wanda's permission, and Wanda won't give it to him.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No. Because he's trying to sell the rights for the kids, and. And Wanda won't give him the rights.

[Patrick Hines]

And so eventually, there's a lot of back and forth, but eventually this all gets settled in family court.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And according to Shanna, her life rights were sold out from under her against her will.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But she got all the money and not her dad.

[Patrick Hines]

And so the judge went with HBO because they were the highest bid.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So she is explaining, even though she had no say in it, the judge tried to do, I guess, the right thing by her in some way and gave her the most money.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And this is how we get that, like, famous Holly Hunter movie.

[Patrick Hines]

The positively true adventures of the alleged Texas cheerleader murdering mom.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like the greatest title of any TV movie of all time.

[Patrick Hines]

Holly Hunter plays Wanda, Beau Bridges plays Terry, and Swoozie Kurtz as Marlo Swoos.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Alex herself from Sister.

[Patrick Hines]

The critics.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Loved it, of course. It was camp. It was unexpectedly self aware, ahead of its time. Like unexpectedly self aware from Wikipedia. Reception for the film was positive. Entertainment Weekly praises the film, stating the movie gets its real kick when it comes time for everyone to sell their rights to Hollywood. One writer even remarking that she has Holly Hunter in mind for the lead. Roger Ebert recommended the film as video of the week on at the Movies.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

But, but, but is it all fun and games? Because we're at the premiere.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So Shanna gets invited to the premiere of the movie and she's like, she. And of course she does not understand the humor. It's highbrow, low brow comedy, you know.

[Shanna]

And she's like, I'm sitting there and there's, you know, hundreds of people packed in this movie theater, and I just remember people laughing at things that I just thought, that's not even funny. And that's not even how it went.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She doesn't really get it.

[Patrick Hines]

But she wants funny to her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's not funny to her. She wants to meet Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter won't meet her. That is fucked. Holly Hunter.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I hope that you've seen this and you've since sent that girl an email. It is not her fault.

[Patrick Hines]

Or, Or I'm just. I'm just going to play devil's advocate here. Did it not even get to Holly Hunter? Was it someone else saying she. No, no. Little girl get away. Like, I don't. No, I. I just find it hard to believe that there was some standoff and Holly Hunter is like, absolutely not get her away from.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But I do think back in the day, there was a lot of thought that Shanna was in on it. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And so maybe Holly Hunter was like, I can't meet her. What is she even doing here. But, like. But we know better now, Holly.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And as Oprah says, when we know better, we do better.

[Patrick Hines]

I just don't. I think there's more to this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, I hope so. Holly Hunter doesn't seem like a monster to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Who knows? I've been burned before.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Holly Hunter, the monster. You heard it here first.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. So it's 1996. Five years later, Wanda pleads guil.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she could get five years, but would probably be out in six months.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. She's sentenced. She goes to prison. And you know, she's supposed to have her own cells. She doesn't have her own cell. She's only in prison for six months. She gets out, she's fine. She's not in this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And she had to pay a total of $150,000 to the victims. 70 grand would be given to Verna and the husband.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

30 grand to the children of Verna and $50,000 to cover the legal expenses of the case. I had to Google that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But I was also like, where'd she get that money? Like, you know what I mean? Why does it have $150,000 thousand dollars?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, just because it was ruled that she has to pay, it doesn't mean she's going to. They never pay it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But now it sort of ends with this, like, big reveal. That isn't really a big reveal.

[Patrick Hines]

Eight minutes left. Shanna drops a bomb on us. She goes, wait, I have to go back.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I have to go back. I've only told two people of this in my entire life.

[Patrick Hines]

And it makes my mom look really bad.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, six weeks before the arrest, Shanna, now remember, five weeks before the arrest is the Christmas party. Note. This was a week before that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Six weeks before the arrest, she, Shanna, and her mom are in the kitchen commiserating.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Wanda starts talking about, you know.

[Shanna]

What if something happened to Vernon? Amber? We just didn't have to deal with them anymore. And I'm like, what do you mean? Be more specific. You know, like, if they just, like, crashed off a mountain or something off a cliff and just didn't have to deal with them anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, accidents happen. What if she, I don't know, drove her car off a cliff or something? Like, what do you think about that?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And Shannon is like, mom, obvious. Would my life be better if I didn't have to deal with them? Yes. But, like, do I want something bad to happen to them?

[Julian Benzavalli]

No. Absolutely not. And, like, in no World. Did Shanna think her mother was even serious?

[Patrick Hines]

Because she goes. And. Because Shanna goes. And then it just kind of went quiet. And Shanna's like, oh, my mom's just being crazy. This is just a stressed out day. Like, there's no way she's actually asking me. We're just talking because we're both stressed out and sad.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But then she was like, the pass the note kid to Uncle Terry, who she knows is, like, an ex convict and, like, not a good guy.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Wanda is always sneaking out of church to meet up with Uncle Terry. And Shannon is like, I know my mom was up to something. I know I'm being lied to.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, but I didn't stop it. And I'm like, well, how could you? You weren't gonna.

[Julian Benzavalli]

How could.

[Patrick Hines]

You couldn't.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And in fact, you might have been putting yourself in danger.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally. And your mom hasn't gonna listen to you. Your mom's gonna win no matter what. It wasn't about you, Shanna.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No. But what Shanna. What I want you to understand, though, is that your mom is guilty of this. You know what I mean? Like, your mom. Your mom did this, right?

[Patrick Hines]

And now Shanna's going through a lot, and she's admitting that she's not dealing with it in the healthiest way. Yeah, she was, Sel. She was in relationships that were bad for her. She said, I punished myself for years. She felt like she had no purpose. She wanted to die. And she hit rock bottom. And she just one day was like, no. Like, she just decides she's gonna literally pick herself up off the kitchen floor, change her life for the better. She said, I realized I'm my own hero. Other people can't make you happy. Only you can do that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, she's gonna be okay, you know, and one of the talking heads is saying, like, while we're all trying to, like, make sense of this, just don't. She's like, Because I think at the end of the day, like, sometimes people just do dumb stuff. I think Wanda Holloway did dumb stuff. And I'm just glad Shanna survived it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, she did. And Amber and Verna. Hello.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And I mean, the quote.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't love Verna's parenting. From what I've.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, Verna sucks, too. But, like, in the very end, Shannon saying, like, my mom and I aren't as close as we have been in the past, but we'll always be there for each other.

[Patrick Hines]

They never talk about this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

They Never talk about it at all. And like, this quote hit me like a ton of bricks.

[Shanna]

She says when I told her I was doing this documentary, she said, why did want to go bringing all that up again? Nobody got hurt. Except you.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Except for you, I like. You know what I mean? Like, Shanna, you're just not important. You're. You're just an afterthought to your mother.

[Patrick Hines]

Or it's. Which is, like, so cruel.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. No one got hurt except for you. And Shanna looks at the camera like that tells you everything you need to know.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, unbelievable. Go learn how to play chess yourself. She learned to play chess. Watch that clip. It's on YouTube. It's the joy Luck Club.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. The way this little diva actress just commands that. She, like, takes a beat. She, like, takes a breath. Why don't you learn to play chess? She, like, hisses at her mother. It's so good. And watch. Bring it on.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, girl. We did. What's it called?

[Patrick Hines]

The Texas Cheerleader murder Plot on hbo.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wild. Wild, Wild, wild, fam. Join the Facebook group, please. We got 59,000 people in there making friends, being cool, having a good time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I'm on tour. We've announced 17 cities. We're announcing, like, another 20 to be. It's, like, wild. I'm going everywhere, but go to PatrickTours.com, see where I'm coming. A couple of cities are sold out, but just come make friends. I'm gonna make you laugh for an hour, and then we're all gonna go to the bar and drink for the rest of the night and just hang.

[Patrick Hines]

Out and go alone. If you are going alone, go alone and go make friends.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. Thank you for saying that. We're making stickers for the solo travelers that say solo and fabulous, which means if you're there and you want to make new friends, and for the people that are coming in groups, we have another sticker that's like, we want to meet solo travelers.

[Patrick Hines]

You can sit with us.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You can sit with us. So, you know, check it out. It's going to be really, really fun, and I'm very excited.

[Patrick Hines]

Good.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What do we do next? Girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. B.S. high. Have you heard about this?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Is it Bea Arthur High?

[Patrick Hines]

No, but it's BS like, bullshit.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What is it? What happens there?

[Patrick Hines]

Scam artists who ran this fake school and, like, a fake football program and ended up on ESPN and, like, ruined a bunch of kids lives.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, and it's called.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, Bishop Sycamore High School. So it literally is b. Oh, my God, this guy. You're going to hate this guy. He's insufferable. He's the worst h. I can't wait. Scam artist.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Drag him to Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, oh, oh, oh. We will. Oh, wait.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, wait.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, wait. No. We will.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. All right, fam. We love you.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye.

[Julian Benzavalli]

How this happens got a lot of people scratching their head. Bishop Sycamore is not even a real high school. They decide did not have teachers. We really was pretty much on our own. We didn't have any trainers. People were sharing helmets.

[Terry]

It was disgusting.

[Shanna]

I was literally sick to my stomach.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't believe this happened again. My philosophy in business is do what.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The people who have the money do, even if you don't have the money. Roy will tell you he's a liar.

[Patrick Hines]

He knew what to say, how to say it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

He's like, oh, man, you gotta let that go. I said, I'm gonna tell you what, I'm gonna let go. I'm gonna let go of his net after I grab it.

[Patrick Hines]

I think I'm the most honest liar that I know.

[Julian Benzavalli]

How can you coach kids and you know it's not a school? Roy would tell people, you're gonna be playing in Alabama. He was just telling me a dream. Ohio was embarrassed by this. They called the thing explicitly a scam and then said they couldn't do a damn thing about it.