421: Last Take: Rust and the Story of Halyna

Summary

True Crime Obsessed Podcast - Episode 421: "Last Take: Rust and the Story of Halyna"

Introduction In episode 421 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Last Take: Rust and the Story of Halyna," the hosts delve deep into the tragic incident that occurred on the set of the Western film Rust. This episode explores the chaotic events that led to the accidental shooting of director of photography Halyna Hutchins and the injury of director Joel Souza, shedding light on the systemic safety failures and negligence that culminated in this avoidable tragedy.

Background of the Incident The incident took place on October 21, 2021, in Santa Fe, New Mexico, during the filming of Rust. Alec Baldwin, a renowned actor and producer, was rehearsing a scene involving a prop gun. According to the hosts, the set was fraught with safety issues, including the presence of live ammunition—a blatant violation of standard film set protocols.

Key Players and Their Roles

• Alec Baldwin ([30:20]): The lead actor and producer of Rust, Baldwin was responsible for handling the prop gun during rehearsals.
• Halyna Hutchins ([03:22]): The director of photography, Hutchins was on set to bring her creative vision to life. Tragically, she was fatally shot during the rehearsal.
• Joel Souza ([03:35]): The director of Rust, Souza was also injured in the shooting.
• Hannah ([16:38]): The armorer responsible for managing firearms on set. Her lack of experience and negligence played a pivotal role in the tragedy.
• Dave Halls ([29:30]): The first assistant director and safety coordinator, who had a history of unsafe practices on previous productions.

Set Safety Failures The podcast highlights multiple layers of negligence:

• Inexperienced Armorer ([16:38], [60:07]): Hannah, the armorer, was inadequately trained despite her father's expertise. She failed to ensure that all firearms were safe, leading to the presence of live bullets on set.
• Ineffective Safety Coordination ([29:30], [56:12]): Dave Halls, despite his role as safety coordinator, neglected to perform thorough inspections of the firearms, directly contributing to the lapse in safety protocols.
• Production Pressures and Cost-Cutting ([24:15], [57:04]): Rust faced budget constraints, leading to the hiring of cheaper, non-union crew members and cutting corners on essential safety measures. This environment fostered a culture where safety was compromised for the sake of efficiency and cost savings.

The Shooting Incident During a rehearsal, Alec Baldwin was instructed by Hannah to point the gun at her to frame the shot. Without proper checks, a live bullet was present in the gun. As Baldwin rehearsed, the gun discharged, resulting in Hutchins' death and Souza's injury. The hosts describe the scene as one of "complete chaos" ([00:04], [32:16]), where panic ensued, and the gravity of the situation quickly became apparent.

Immediate Aftermath and Legal Proceedings Following the incident, the set was engulfed in confusion and fear. Police arrived to investigate, instilling even more chaos ([05:32], [32:38]). Legal actions unfolded as follows:

• Hannah's Conviction ([63:18]): Hannah was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to 18 months in prison due to her negligence in handling firearms.
• Dave Halls' Plea Deal ([64:17]): Dave admitted to negligent use of a deadly weapon and received six months of probation, highlighting a lack of accountability for those in key safety roles.
• Alec Baldwin's Trial and Dismissal ([70:31]): Baldwin faced legal scrutiny but ultimately had his case dismissed with prejudice, effectively rendering him not guilty in the eyes of the law.

OSHA Investigation and Findings The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) conducted an investigation, revealing systemic failures:

• Multiple Negligent Discharges ([54:13]): Prior to the fatal shooting, there were two accidental discharges, indicating a pattern of unsafe firearm handling on set.
• Lack of Proper Protocols ([56:12], [60:07]): The investigation underscored that essential safety measures were ignored, with live bullets improperly stored and mishandled firearms posing constant threats.

Civil Lawsuit and Settlement In 2023, Halyna Hutchins' family filed a civil lawsuit against Rust Productions, Alec Baldwin, and others involved. A confidential settlement was reached, allowing the completion of the film while honoring Hutchins' legacy ([72:35]).

Documentary and Legacy The episode concludes by discussing Last Take: Rust and the Story of Halyna, a documentary directed by Rachel Mason, a close friend of Hutchins. The documentary utilizes extensive footage from the set, including body cam recordings and interviews with key personnel, to provide an unflinching look at the events leading up to the tragedy. It serves as both a tribute to Hutchins and a cautionary tale about the dire consequences of negligence in high-stakes environments.

Notable Quotes

• Host A on Set Chaos ([32:16]): "They can't. So, that is adding to, like, why was there a live bullet? There's no universe on earth, universe upon universe upon universe that a live bullet would be on any set anywhere, for any reason."
• Host B on Hannah's Negligence ([33:14]): "She was being told to stop doing the armorer work but still had live bullets in the gun. It’s so unbelievable."
• Host A on Legal Outcomes ([64:52]): "She was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, serving 18 months in prison. Dave took a plea deal and got six months probation."
• Host B on Alec Baldwin's Denial ([66:21]): "Alec Baldwin's job is the actor. He's not fixing the lighting. If the armorer tells him that it's okay, he's held a gun before."

Conclusion Episode 421 of True Crime Obsessed meticulously unpacks the multitude of failures that led to one of the most shocking incidents in recent film history. Through insightful analysis, the hosts emphasize the critical importance of adhering to safety protocols and ensuring accountability at every level of production. The tragic loss of Halyna Hutchins serves as a stark reminder of the devastating impact that negligence can have, making this episode a must-listen for true crime enthusiasts and industry professionals alike.

Transcript

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It's like a mile and my toes hurt.

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I know. Bad.

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Yeah. They are kind of cute, right?

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I knew what it was.

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[A]

Hi, Julian Benzavalli.

[B]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

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Ye. Like, by popular request, we've added some cities here that weren't initially there. So we're trying to make everybody happy. But tickets are on sale now. Patrick Tours dot com. Run and grab them. A lot of these venues are really tiny. I'm just going to give you the city names and you can go find the dates on the website.

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Here we go. Pittsburgh. Buffalo. Provincetown, Massachusetts. I'm so excited for that one. Charleston, South Carolina. Nashville, Tennessee. Charlotte, North Carolina. Atlanta, Georgia. Orlando, Florida. Washington, D.C. philadelphia and London. Yes.

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Rounding it out in London. London on August 30th. That's my final show. Wow. So, fam, just go and check it out. Patrick Tours dot com. There's like, even. There's like, ten more shows than that that are still coming that have already been announced.

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Thank you for indulging me.

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Of course.

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Thank you for coming to my tour of TED Talk.

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[A]

What are we talking about today, girl?

[B]

All right, this is on Hulu. It's called Last Take Russ and the story of Helena.

[A]

It very quickly felt like somebody was going to get hurt if something didn't change. There's so much footage that she made that's so beautiful. She put her soul into it. We were setting up for a shot. Alina is standing to the right of the cameraman.

[B]

It sounded like an explosion. Everybody stops what they're doing, and I.

[A]

Need the film secured. This is a crime scene. It's just complete chaos. Dead right over here. Everyone's like, what the hell? Could there be a bullet alive?

[B]

Bullet got put in the gun.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

What's your job?

[A]

I'm the armor. She had little experience.

[B]

Why would there be live ammo on the set?

[A]

I have no idea.

[B]

Six live bullets were floating around on that movie set.

[A]

What people really wanted from this was entertainment. Just an ugly frenzy, and they erased her from it. Someone is responsible.

[B]

I can't say who that is, but.

[A]

I know it's not me.

[B]

What really happened on that set?

[A]

Now, you were really into this when it was happening.

[B]

You were saying, I was fascinated by this whole case. I needed to get more information as it was happening because I was sort of. I was so shocked that this could happen on a film set that has such a strict hierarchy and so many.

[A]

Rules, like, if you don't know the story. Essentially, a gun went off while in the hands of actor Alec Baldwin on a film set. The shot ended up killing the director of photography and also shooting the director who was standing behind her.

[B]

Right. So Halyna Hutchins is the director of photography, and she was shot and killed and joined. Joel Souza is the director.

[A]

So I only knew cursorily about this as it was happening and. But, like, it's wild because it's October 2021, and we're on the film set in Santa Fe, New Mexico. So it's, like, kind of amazing to see, like, what that set actually looked like. It's really beautiful.

[B]

But what's really interesting is that this entire documentary takes place on the set of Rust, because they end up reshooting it.

[A]

Yes. So this documentary know that until the.

[B]

Very end, this documentary, everyone is sitting down to talk to the camera while they're on set reshooting the film. So they're in costume. They're in the set. Yeah, but they're there. So it's very like, all the footage is from set professional or body cam or whatever. Like, it's kind of wild that we're in that space the entire time.

[A]

Yes. Because I was like, how did they get all like. I'm like, did they get into costume to do these interviews? No, they were back on set because at the end of the day, they wanted to make the movie because they wanted to preserve her legacy and they wanted her. Her work to be shown.

[B]

Yeah. So we open with some body cam footage before we officially start. And it's just the cops sort of descending onto set. And someone from the crew says Baldwin.

[A]

Was the actor on set that pulled the tr. Alec Baldwin.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

We got the bird right here.

[B]

And the officer's like, I'm sorry, Alec Baldwin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're like, yeah. So there's a helicopter. People are being airlifted out of there.

[A]

It's crazy to see because the set looks so authentic. It's like you're looking at like the 1850s.

[B]

It's a real. I mean, it's the set of a western. So it looks very much, you know.

[A]

But then all of a sudden you're seeing, like, fire trucks and helicopters right now. And, like, Alec Baldwin. And these people are truly. Somebody's going to say later. People started going into shock. No, nobody was really aware of, were saying or what they were doing. This woman that they had been working on just, like, got shot. Nobody knows if she's okay or not. She's being airlifted away. Alec Baldwin is sort of like, he's just done this knowingly or not. And. And, you know, it's a. It's a. It's a crazy situation that these cops are walking.

[B]

And another thing that's confusing. I'm going to say this a bunch of times, but I'll start now. A set is a place where everyone has a job, a very clear job, and there's a very clear and strict hierarchy. So these cops and everyone there are trying to figure out how this happened. Because everything else that happen on a set, you can trace it back to step number one.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They can't. So that is adding to, like, why was there a live bullet? There's no universe on earth, universe upon universe upon universe that a live bullet would be on any set anywhere, for any reason. 50 within 50 miles of any kind of set. It's ridiculous.

[A]

Yeah. That just like, as a. As a layperson over here, I was like, what do they not Understand. But, like, it is so foreign to these people's ideas of anything that could possibly happen.

[B]

Right. And we'll dive into that a little bit more.

[A]

Yeah.

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Girl has a big tree in her house, in her apartment. So we're here with Rachel Mason, who's the director of the documentary and she's Halyna's very good friend.

[A]

Right. And after Halyna died, Halyna's husband Matt came to Rachel and was like, can you please make a movie about Halyna's life? And Rachel, the director says, I realize I couldn't make a film about her life if I didn't understand how she died.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is when we meet Joel, who was the writer and director of the movie Rust.

[B]

And he was shot as well, and.

[A]

He survived, which I didn't know, by the way. I didn't know anybody else was injured in this accident.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So to be clear, the bullet, to be a little bit graphic, went through Helena's body and into the director who was standing behind her.

[B]

They were all in very, very, very close quarters. We'll get into it. But it was a close up shot on Alec Baldwin's hands holding the gun. So everyone was very close. They were inches away from each other.

[A]

Yeah. And so Joel, the director explains. Alec Baldwin was like one of the most famous people in the world at the time. He was the forefront of the zeitgeist. And for some reason, Alec Baldwin liked this guy's writing. Then was like, let's work on something together. And Joel, like grabbed the bull by the horns. He was like, I got a cop movie and I got a Western. And Alec Baldwin was like, I've never made a Western. Let's do that. That is not usually, I mean, a lot.

[B]

So much of the business is like, who do you know? And let's do this. And I know a guy. But like, for some, I mean, the way Joel says it is that Alec Baldwin was like, ring, ring, hey, hey, Joel.

[A]

Because anybody who's lived in New York or LA long enough and is in the business, I would say has had that experience of having an encounter with a famous person who's like, wow, you're great. Let's work together sometime. And nothing ever materializes in this instant. Alec Baldwin was like, let's do. Let's make your movie.

[B]

And yeah, and Joel gave him a choice. He picked a Western. And here we are.

[A]

This, I cannot say it enough. This never happens.

[B]

Cole says there are certain people that he always hires and the cinematographer is one of them. Yeah, the cinematographer is also known as the director of photography.

[A]

I just keep a list of cinematographers whose work I'd like. I'd see something, I'm like, oh, that's good. And I'd just write it down and oh, she's one of these ten cinematographers to watch. It's tough when you're Hiring a cinematographer, you don't want someone that you're gonna argue with all the time. You want a collaborative process.

[B]

So the cinematographer is in charge of bringing the director's vision to life. Essentially, the way a movie looks, the way it feels or a show looks and feels like the visual aspect, aspect of the storytelling. So they're in charge of, like, the camera setup and the lighting and the set and, like, how they're going to figure out how to do these things. Like, it's a really important, creative, super cool job.

[A]

And the relationship between the director and the cinematographer, it seems to me, can either be very collaborative or it can be very dysfunctional.

[B]

On the best sets in the best environments, it should be very, totally collaborative.

[A]

And that's what they are saying. It was between Joel and Helena. Yeah.

[B]

You know, Helena was super excited about this project, and she had never done a project like this before. All the other things that she worked on were kind of low budget, but beautiful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Really stunning. She has, like, a really. She's just excellent at her job, but she'd never done a western, so she was excited to do that.

[A]

And once she got to the set, everyone was like, who is that? Like, everyone was really impressed by her. She looks really cool. She's young. She's got that, like, bleach blonde hair. She seems, like, full of energy. She had great ideas. She was easy to work with. People just loved being around her.

[B]

Yeah. So it's September 2021, and we're at pre production, Santa Fe, New Mexico, and Therese from wardrobe is like, let me tell you about working on westerns. They're really cool because it's like a time machine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so Roman and Thomas.

[A]

Back to the future 3.

[B]

Oh, missed that one. So sorry.

[A]

You didn't miss a lot.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Back to the Future 2 is a masterpiece. It's probably, in my opinion, the best one.

[B]

Like, the Godfather 2 is the best.

[A]

Of the Godfather, 100%. But, like. But Back to the Future 3 is tragic, but they go back in time. They go back to the old West.

[B]

No, it makes sense.

[A]

And it's like. It's kind of bad, but it looks really cool. That's the only Western I've ever seen.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's Back to the Future.

[B]

Okay, good. That makes sense. That makes sen. It's very you. You're like. Point of reference for Westerns is Back to the Future. That definitely makes a lot of sense.

[A]

And I. It felt like a salient point, but now I'm hearing it. I'm hearing it out loud. You know? You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. Roman and Thomas from Special Effects are.

[A]

Like, big wind, big fire, big explosions, big shootouts.

[B]

It was, for me, this exciting raising.

[A]

Of my career and dreams and the things that I want. And I know that Helena was in that same place.

[B]

Big shootouts. Just like. It's a Western, man darf.

[A]

And boring. Like, I. Nothing. If I were to come to your house and you were like, we're either gonna watch the Godfather, a Western, or like a cool horror movie. Like, I can't imagine wanting to watch anything less than a western.

[B]

Westerns can be really slow. In college, I had to watch, like, High Noon.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre is the best one because that's Bogey. That's Humphrey Bogart. And he goes ins. And it's great.

[A]

All right, that sounds good.

[B]

High Noon, I'm sorry, is a fucking.

[A]

No, no. They like.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

It looks beautiful. And like, seeing what the.

[B]

And it's all very racist from, like, old timey. Westerns are very, like, whoa.

[A]

Angela Lansbury used to be in Western. So, like, take me back to, like, when she was like, the saloon girl.

[B]

Oh, that I'll take. It's a fun costume.

[A]

You would have been a great saloon girl.

[B]

I think so. I think the other day, I don't know why, but I just. I was walking around and I was holding something weird, and Mike was like, you look like one of those girls in the clubs in the. I was like, cigars, cigarettes. He was like, exact. Also, Frances Fisher is here. She's Rose's mean mom from Titanic.

[A]

I love her.

[B]

She's Rose's mean mom in Titanic. I'm just gonna say it again.

[A]

Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So she's here, too. We also meet Dave Halls. He will be an important character in this. He's the first ad, first assistant director.

[A]

And now we learn one of the.

[B]

Responsibilities of the first AD is that.

[A]

They'Re the safety coordinator.

[B]

What kinds of things did you think in terms of safety that might be necessary?

[A]

Well, certainly we were working with guns.

[B]

And that was a primary safety concern.

[A]

He's the safety coordinator. I'm learning so much about moviemaking today.

[B]

Yeah. So the first AD is the logistics person. Right. Here's what we're doing today. Here's how, when, why all of that. So everything that Helene is like, I really want this sky to look like it's just about to rain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The first AD will help figure out, like, how we're doing that. That's all the Logistics.

[A]

But also, like, if they're. If we're using guns, then, like, I'm the last line of defense against making sure there's not a fucking live bullet in the gun.

[B]

Being the safety coordinator is an incredibly important job, especially on the set of a Western.

[A]

100%.

[B]

So Frances Fisher from Titanic says one day she's on set. She and Alec are in full costume.

[A]

That's what her gravestone is gonna say. Frances Fisher from Titanic.

[B]

Rose's mean, horrible mother from Titanic.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

She was so mean.

[A]

I remember I can see her lacing her into that thing.

[B]

Yes. Oh, my God. I think Kate Winslet is so.

[A]

I saw her stunning recently in an interview. Be very annoyed to be asked about Titanic.

[B]

Oh, whatever. I don't. She. That's fine.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

She's earned it.

[A]

I don't give a shit.

[B]

She was so angelic and stunning and beautiful. And when you remember and look back at how people were talking shit about how she looked, I just.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I thought I wanted to be her. Of course, that last dress that she wears with all the beads on it, like, she's absolutely stunningly beautiful.

[A]

And, yeah, she had the last laugh there. No question. I mean, but, like, this reporter was like, are you sure that Jack couldn't fit on the door with you? And she's like, I don't know.

[B]

Oh, my reporter, be better at your fucking job. How many times do you think she's been asked that question?

[A]

The look on Kate Winslet's face when she got that question.

[B]

I hear I'm on her side on this.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Enough with the fucking. Jack fit on the boat. It's so tired. I'm exhausted just thinking about it. Who cares?

[A]

This and the way Lotus brothers make out in the same week. It's like, come on.

[B]

One of them was not into it.

[A]

One of them was into it.

[B]

One of them was very much into it.

[A]

And all of America was the one that was into it.

[B]

I mean, no. Anyway, so Frances Fisher from Titanic is like, I'm standing there with Alec Baldwin at her words. She goes, this girl comes over and interrupts our conversation. She's got an armful of guns, just barreled her way in. And I thought, it's very unsafe to be walking around base camp with a whole bunch of guns in your hand. Like, have they been cleared? Why are you doing this? She's got her arms full of guns. She barreled her way in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she goes. And I thought, it's very unsafe to be walking around base camp with a whole Bunch of guns. Have they been cleared? Why are you doing this? And Frances from Titanic says even Alec was like, what is she doing? It was very jarring for these two.

[A]

Professional actors, yet nobody, including Alec Baldwin, who's also the producer of the film, decides to go over and ask her what she's doing.

[B]

Well, there's a lot of irresponsibility happening here on the set. There's no question.

[A]

Because we find out that this girl is the armorer. And according to the on screen text, the armorer on a film set is responsible for the safe use of all firearms, weapons and ammunition.

[B]

Now, let me break down what this means. It's an authoritative position.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is someone who's in charge of the film. You'd be great I. If I knew. But the thing is, you have to know your shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have to be confident in knowing your shit. And you have to be confident telling everyone what to do because you're the boss 100%. So it's a very. You have to be able to stand in your power and say. Because you're teaching these actors how to use these. These weapons.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like maintenance, repair, handling, transport, storage. You got to be super organized. You're. You have to know what weapon is going where, check in, check out. It's a very important system. But you have to be able to, like, own it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And stand in it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So it's really like. Like people are trusting you that when you hand a gun to Alec Baldwin and you say, it's a cold gun, he goes, oh, there's nothing in here. I know that for a fact because this person told me, and I trust them.

[A]

And like I learned from you, in this movie, there also should never be a live round 50 miles within. I mean, it's in.

[B]

You shouldn't even be, like, thinking about a live round.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's so. It's so ridiculous. It is so unbelievably shocking. So her name is Hannah, the armorer is Hannah, and she didn't have a lot of experience at all. But my concern over lack of experience was tempered by knowing that her father.

[A]

Was Thel Reed, the fastest gun in the West. I'm Thel Reed. I'm a world champion fast drawer. Every actor just about that you see spinning a gun and doing it really nice has been trained by Thel Reed.

[B]

This guy is a legend. He's an expert. They assume that because Hannah grew up with him, some of his expertise and professionalism has rubbed off on her. It has not.

[A]

No. 1 is putting Daisy in this booth and saying, recap that documentary fucking nipple baby.

[B]

Are you kidding? I know, but Hannah says because we get a lot of interviews, it's just.

[A]

Daisy and Fiona making an episode.

[B]

A lot of like sniffing on the mic.

[A]

It would just be Daisy like curled up next to her, just petting her.

[B]

Fiona does the squeak yawns. So that's really cute. She squeaks when she yawns.

[A]

What does it sound like?

[B]

I can't do it. I'll try to get an audio of it.

[A]

When she goes, oh, my God. She.

[B]

It's really cute. Natalie is. Because Natalie has babysit her before. Dog said her before. It's very, very cute.

[A]

Do you know what I've been meaning to tell you is that this is the sweetest thing about my daughter. Anytime she describes golden in any way, it's his little daddy, you gotta be careful. You're gonna get his little paw caught in the door. Daddy, you gotta be careful. His little nose almost fell into the water. Daddy, you gotta be careful. His little mouth can't get all the way.

[B]

Sometimes I'll say to Fiona, like, be careful about your little self. Her little self, like, this is the best day of your little life.

[A]

I know the way she instinctively calls everything his little dot, dot, dot.

[B]

Well, he is little.

[A]

He is, to be fair. But it wouldn't occur to me to be like, Steve, don't step on his little feet. I'd be like, just don't step on his feet. You know what I mean?

[B]

That is such a dog person thing. Like all his little.

[A]

I know. It's how, you know, being a dog person, it like, like it just, it's in you or it isn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, yeah. And Daisy, such a little dog person.

[B]

I know, that's cute.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Travel down the road.

[A]

Back again, girl. GEM is a new sponsor this month. Listen to this. Mike is going to love this. GEM is the first real food multivitamin formulated with ingredients our bodies were built to absorb and free from synthetic ingredients.

[B]

Yeah. Mike loves. Of course, he's popping them all the time.

[A]

So the thing about his run, he loves it.

[B]

Right before his run, his precious run. No, I'm very proud of him. So Jim is on a mission to make food as medicine real through bite sized nutrition solutions that are simple and delightful to digest. So this Daily Bite, the Gems Daily Bite, this is Mike's favorite thing. It's a functional daily multivitamin formulated for proper absorption, packed with over 20 nutrients, prebiotics and probiotics. And it's delicious. It's like a little bite. It's a little snack.

[A]

Aren't we all sick of popping pills? Can't we just have a snack and get it all?

[B]

And they're good. And that's the thing. It feels like, oh, I'm eating a snack. Because you are. Because it's. Food is medicine.

[A]

Totally. So, girl. Gem sources organic ingredients whenever possible and has nothing artificial. All bites are vegan, gluten free, and soy free.

[B]

Yeah. And they even worked with a pastry chef to make sure each bite is as delicious as it is nutritious. Which is. I'm like, oh, that's why Mike loves it.

[A]

We are getting bougie up in here.

[B]

He's a dessert guy. Oh, he love. Desserts are his favorite thing, which is why he loves these things.

[A]

And dessert is now his most.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Also, Gem is backed by Science girl. They formulate with nourishing ingredients that are individually backed by clinical and scientific studies to ensure your body is getting exactly what it needs girl.

[B]

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[A]

Every day. So, family, if you want to give the first real food multivitamin a try, head to daily gem.com TCO or enter TCO at checkout for 30% off your first order.

[B]

That's daily gm.com TCO or enter tco at checkout for 30% off.

[A]

Go get it, Mike.

[B]

We're doing, like, snack vitamins.

[A]

He looks really good.

[B]

He does look great. And he just got a haircut yesterday. I'm like, halas, swoon it. So Hannah says, quote, because we get footage of Hannah from, like, other interviews that she did, her depositions from this point.

[A]

She did not sit down for the interview. Baldwin.

[B]

But Hannah says, I learned how to be an armorer from my father over the years. I'm sorry, that doesn't sound like she's actually been trained. No, to me, it sounds like she grew up around this. She watched him, he told her about what he did, and now she's on a movie set.

[A]

It'd be like if your dad is an emergency room surgeon and all of a sudden, like, there you are with no formal training.

[B]

Are you kidding?

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

I wouldn.

[A]

No.

[B]

Because again, there, the job is so important and it's just so authoritative and you got to be able to step into it and she can't.

[A]

No. And we're going to learn eventually. She was the third choice for this job anyway. They didn't even want her any more than she was able to do it.

[B]

No. So Hannah. We get, like, audio from Hannah and Alec Baldwin again from past interviews. Explain. And they were both saying, like, Hannah worked with Alec. They were going to practice with blanks. And blanks are, as the onscreen text says, a fake round that makes a loud bang when fired. Right. So Alec Baldwin is celebrity. Obviously. It sounds silly to even say that out loud. Like, not everyone knows who Alec Baldwin is.

[A]

No. And like, one of the actors in the film says things started falling off when Alex showed up, but it wasn't like he wasn't doing anything wrong. An actor of that caliber with that producer title, it was kind of intimidating. It was like, you know, the pacing of the set got a little quicker. Things picked up faster.

[B]

It was a tonal change on set.

[A]

When he showed up, things started moving faster.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Things started going a little more quickly than maybe was good for things to be moving.

[B]

It's Jonas on the camera crew, and the camera crew is very important because we'll get back to Jonas in a minute. But the tone change, and it wasn't anything Alec Baldwin did. It's just who he is, is what he's saying.

[A]

And it's like, you know, the other actors in this movie that we meet throughout, you recognize some of them. You know, Francis. Francis. Right. And the other ones, I'm like, oh, that. Cause also, everybody here is only listed by their first name.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They don't give any last names for anybody here. I think for a lot of the people on set, having Alec Baldwin involved in the movie meant that this was a next career leap for a lot of people.

[B]

And he's a producer, and he developed the movie for three years. As he said, like, he's a very big part of it. And he's here, and he's excited, too. He's excited. But there is a lot that comes when capital A, capital B, Baldwin gets on set.

[A]

Who's casting Alec Baldwin in a Western? That, like, makes no sense.

[B]

Well, he was like, I want to do a Western. And they're like, I guess we're doing a Western.

[A]

I'm like, I can only think of him from, like, 30 Rock and, like, his, like, young, hot, sexy early 90s movies, like Westerns should be made by the Clint Eastwoods of the world. You know what I mean? Yes.

[B]

I don't even need Clint Eastwood.

[A]

Nobody is about. Maybe we should just retire Western, I mean, you know what I mean?

[B]

Do them in a better way.

[A]

Back to the Future 3. Or Bus.

[B]

Or bus, you know, or I am walking. So here's the thing about films. Everyone they're really expensive. And one big way to keep the cost down is scheduling. Time is money. Literally. That's where that comes from. So the crew is saying, like, yeah, it was hell. It was a hard set to work on it. You're working 12 hour days. Things need to be done by a certain time. It's super stressful. It's not at all glamorous. And the point is that Rust had a lot of money problems.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Matt in the lighting department said we had to balance out what we could get versus what we need versus what we want versus what? Like, can we even make this work?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now what I'm hearing is they were cutting corners wherever they could.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Anywhere and Everywhere. So it's October 21, 2021, day 12 of Russ production. Yeah, it's already a bad day on set. And Helena is not happy, which we learn is weird because she's always happy. She's always in a good mood. She's always preserving the vibe on set.

[A]

And we should say she hired the entire camera crew. These are the people that have come to work for her.

[B]

And they left.

[A]

They walked out.

[B]

Now, they didn't tell anyone. They just like staged this walkout. They went from a crew of like 11 to 3.

[A]

Yeah. And she's there on set when they're leaving, and she's like, what is happening?

[B]

And so we learn about this guy Lane, who we'll meet later. But Lane was the first AC onset. The assistant camera.

[A]

Lane is responsible for the day to day make sure that our department's running smoothly. Every problem that we could have potentially had is on his shoulders.

[B]

A lot of the issues we had.

[A]

Lane started to bring up to producers.

[B]

Like, hey, are we gonna deal with this?

[A]

We felt like we weren't respected or taken care of.

[B]

And like, no one really gave a shit about us. And so now it sort of becomes like the camera crew versus everyone else. Cause then we get like, Joel, the director, talking about disharmony.

[A]

Yeah. So this is my question to you. Joel is saying, like, the production team and the camera crew, they never liked each other. There was always strife between them. And he sort of like, threw his hands up in the air, like, oh, well, I guess it's just one of those sac that's. Isn't he the guy that's in charge of fixing that as the director?

[B]

From what I know, the director is the end all be all on set, except for, like, when the studio comes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the director knows everything that's going on. And of course, you can't can everyone be friends? No. Right. But if there was strife, you know, like Therese from wardrobe is like, they were rude. They were talking shit about everyone, all the camera people. And so it just seems like any and all of these problems that these camera people were having, Joel, the director, should have been aware of.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Especially if Lane was passing along all of these complaints.

[A]

Right. And it's like for this camera crew to walk out, I'm not saying they weren't assholes. I'm sure everybody was having bad days. But like, for them to walk off a job is kind of a big deal. They must really have believed that the complaints they were making were valid.

[B]

Right. And we'll get into this a lot more later. But they walked off in protest because their very real complaints weren't being addressed, including waiting for paychecks, including lack of COVID safety, long hours, commutes. Like they were told that production was going to pay for hotels nearby. And then when they got to set, they were like, you actually have to drive 60 miles there and back. And they were like, oh my God. So like they'd have to drive an hour after working a 13 hour shift in the desert and then also not be paid. And also the most important safety issues.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So we will get into all that later. But there was a lot going on on the set that no one here is really talking about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the union people left. Left. A non union crew was brought in. They're cheaper.

[A]

Skeleton crew.

[B]

Yeah. And they're much cheaper. And they really don't have to deal with all the union rules.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which are in place for a reason.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So they all walk off. And hours later, like it's after lunch and everyone is back on set. We learn later that the, the people who walked off were like, my expectations.

[A]

Was that we would leave and then that they would shut down for a day and look at their safety things. I was, I was very surprised that they might continue working.

[B]

We didn't know you were going to be up and running again immediately and ignoring everything we said.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And that's what happened.

[A]

Right. And then. So the scene that they're shooting now is the scene in the church with Alec Baldwin. And this is where everything goes wrong.

[B]

Right. So Helena says, camera's ready. Dave, the first A.D. also the safety coordinator, tells everyone on the walkie talkies, we're ready to go. That's the cue for Hannah, the armorer to come takes out the gun for the scene. She cleans the inside of it with a brush. She's telling us all of this. And she goes. And then I loaded the last dumm in there. And what she's talking about is a dummy round which looks just like. Exactly like a real bullet, only it's a dummy. It doesn't fire.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So Alec Baldwin arrives on set. Again, like you're seeing a little bit of the hierarchy. Everyone's calling people at a certain time. There are rules on a set.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Very strict rules. That when you follow this well oiled machine should work perfectly.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So Alec Baldwin is on set. He goes to his mark. Hannah the armorer is standing next to Dave, the first A.D. the safety coordinator.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Dave says to her, let's do the gun check. Hannah. Dave, I put dummy rounds in the gun. This is where it gets kind of like. Wait, what? Hannah shows Dave the gun and she says she spins the cylinder for him. So she opens it. Yeah, spins it. Dave says, hannah brought me the gun.

[A]

She opened up the hatch and I saw three bullets.

[B]

And you only saw the three? Only saw the three.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you normally check all of them or, or what do you usually do?

[A]

Should.

[B]

Okay. He does not inspect the gun himself. Now, I was telling you off mic, Dave, the safety coordinator and the first AD was fired from two other productions before because of unsafe practices. So, like guns were going off just like they were on the set. And also inappropriate behavior towards crew members, but whatever.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So he has a history of maybe not being the best safety coordinator in the world.

[A]

Or a person, apparently.

[B]

Or a person, apparently. Now, Helena is currently behind the camera.

[A]

Yeah, behind the camera, which is right in front of Alec Baldwin. And they will explain to us that normally the way this works is that she would normally be 30ft away and what they call video village. So when you have the entire crew on hand, the cinematographer and the director are actually watching the monitors 30ft away to see what would actually be being recorded as like, what would be used in the film. But because they're on this skeleton crew, that Video Village is not set up. She needs to be in the room to frame the shot with her hand.

[B]

In real time with Joel, the director behind her. Exactly. So, I mean, between these three people, they couldn't be closer. Alec Baldwin, Helena and Joel, they're on top of each other because it's a very close.

[A]

Within a foot of each other.

[B]

Yeah. But again, they don't have Video Village because most of their crew walked off.

[A]

Exactly. Because of unsafe work practices that are.

[B]

Now not being addressed, that have been vocalized many times. So the shot is very, very close up. And the Director of this documentary says, like, just to clarify. So the only thing between her and the gun were her own hands.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The answer is yes. So this is important. This is a rehearsal.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They were not rolling on this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So when we.

[A]

So we will never really know exactly.

[B]

What happens or what was said or whatever. Which is a travesty in the middle of a travesty, because we'll never really know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Helena is right there telling Alec Baldwin what to do. And he says, as he's telling the story in another deposition or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Finally, I said, now do you want to see me pull the hammer back? He will later say, he didn't say that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Now, the rest of that sentence that we don't hear could be. And Helena said, no. So I didn't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know the rest of that.

[A]

She'll also say later that she told him to point the gun in her direction, to point it towards the camera. It's another thing in gun safety, we will be told you never, ever do on a film set. But she said, point the gun in this direction so the camera can see it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which has the gun pointing right at her body.

[B]

Now, if she were in Video Village.

[A]

Right.

[B]

She wouldn't be there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Suddenly, like, things are happening very chaotically in the documentary, I think, to show us, like, how that must have been.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because now we're just talking about how suddenly it sounded like an explosion sound in the smoke.

[A]

And it was so loud. First thing I did was I turned my head and I go, oh, man, Hannah's gonna be getting yelled at now.

[B]

I say, wait, was it the gun? And Dave said, yeah, it was the gun. And I screamed out like, oh, my God, Joel, I am so sorry. It sounded like an explosion.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And everyone instantly is like, that was a fucking real gunshot.

[A]

What is that?

[B]

Everyone, I think, gets out of body. Because, again, there shouldn't be a real bullet within a million miles.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Every time I say the miles, they get bigger.

[A]

I know, but they.

[B]

So it's kind of like no one was expecting the sound. That was a cold gun, which means it was emptied. It should have maybe gone click at most.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So now everyone is freaking out, and.

[A]

They see Halyna has been shot and.

[B]

Joel, the director, has also been shot.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So the cops arrive. It is complete and utter chaos down here, Tom.

[A]

And now we're back to the beginning, and we can see what this looks like, where everyone is running everywhere. Everyone is in shock. No one knows what Alec Baldwin is sort of like. He's just out of his mind.

[B]

Right. No one knows where the gun is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Hannah the armorer is a wreck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She can't answer any of the questions she's been asked. She can't find the rounds she used. Nothing is organized. She doesn't know where anything is. She goes, this is the one. I'm pretty sure. No Hannah. I know there should be an organized system where you can look down at some kind of document that says, no, this is it and this is what it should be. You could be shaking. You can be be hysterical.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you should be able to say, nope. Everything is listed here because that's what an armorer does.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. She was a child, like having a.

[B]

Grown up shot with no experience and the third string.

[A]

Yeah. So Dave, the first AD runs over to Helena and says, are you okay? She says, I can't feel my legs.

[B]

I mean, I know people are just like in disbelief and they don't know what happened. And now it's like Helena and Joel.

[A]

Because now they're also thinking, is there like a madman on set running around shooting people? Because nobody knows what happened. Like even Alec Baldwin camp say, like, I think my gun, my gun fired. Nobody know. They think there's a madman on the.

[B]

Loose because this train is never fudgeing late. The news and the paparazzi are already, already they're hovering and they've now like trapped these people on set. They can't leave without being photographed or harassed in some way. So everyone is saying, you got to stay in this little area of set because now the paparazzi is chasing you.

[A]

Because Alec Baldwin has been put in a cop car and has been taken downtown. They're saying hours are passing on the set. No one is telling anybody anything. Everyone is stuck.

[B]

So Alec Baldwin had of the armorer and Dave, the first AD all go down to the police station and we see it.

[A]

This was shocking to me. I could not believe we were watching Alec Baldwin's like, interrogation at the Santa Fe Police Department.

[B]

I can't either.

[A]

Wild.

[B]

Let me ask you a question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was Hannah giving major attitude or was it me? Yes, she was major attitude.

[A]

Hannah was Hannah. And again, like, I don't know if it's a shock response. If she's like, Hannah is not acting appropriately. I don't know if that is just because she's in shock or she's just a fucking asshole.

[B]

They ask her how old she is and she's kind of like fidgeting and she goes, 24.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like she's annoyed at the question, I.

[A]

Think that she's also thinking her life is over.

[B]

I mean, like, you know, someone else's.

[A]

Somebody else's life is literally.

[B]

And you hurt somebody else, Joel. So, like, I understand, like, wow, you can never work in this line of work again. Probably, however, bigger fish to Frank I have. So Alec Baldwin is drawing it out for them. He's talking a mile a minute. He's really trying to get to the bottom of what happened. Dave, the DP is acting it out now.

[A]

Let me just say I said this to you off mic and it made sense to you. This was so insane to me. Alec Baldwin is saying to the cops, what I'm curious about is what came.

[B]

Out of that bullet that went through.

[A]

Her body and into his shoulder.

[B]

I'm wondering if your department is prepared to go find out what comes out of his shoulder surgically.

[A]

Is that a lie?

[B]

That's what we are actually looking at. Is that a lot? Because I don't.

[A]

Doesn't make any sense. Otherwise. There's absolutely. He doesn't even say there's no way it could be a bullet. He's just saying what came out of that gun. The gun must have misfired. And so.

[B]

Because in his mind, there's no bullet. There is no bullet.

[A]

And the. And the director was saying the same thing. Like, I can't stress this enough. They have been in this industry for so long and with the understanding that you would never have a live round on set has been so ingrained in their heads that there's no way this could have been an actual bullet.

[B]

The director, Joel, is arguing with the doctors.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He's like, you didn't pull a bullet out of me. And they're like. Like, yes, we did.

[A]

They have to, like, show him the X ray. They're like, there's no way. Like, they can't.

[B]

He's like, can you get that bullet out of the way? And so I could see what actually was in me. There's no way it was a bullet.

[A]

They've got the bullet in a little canister. They're shaking it next to his head. They're like, girl, here's the bullet. Like, these people who've been in the business for so long, they cannot make it make sense that it was a bullet.

[B]

And I think that's really important. Travel down, girl.

[A]

Pair eyewears back. They've got a bunch of cute little things that I'm going to say, but I'm going to jump into what I love the most about it.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

I also love how they're super budget friendly, but you're not compromising on style or quality. Like, they're great glasses, they look great and they're not breaking the bank.

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No. They've also got these top frames. So, like, you get your regular frames and then you can add top frames to change up your style. They can be professional or pink and sparkly. They can be rainbowy. They can be anything. Like, you can literally have a different frame every day using these top frames. It's incredible.

[B]

Yeah. And they have these collaborations like with Disney or Marvel or Star wars, the NBA, NHL. Like you can rep your favorite team on your glasses.

[A]

Totally. And I did all of this online, by the way. You found your perfect frame shape from a home virtual try on. You order the whole thing online. I entered my own prescription online. They sent it right to my house. I ordered progressives because my eyes are horrendous and I needed them.

[B]

Yeah, but they have all kinds of lenses. All.

[A]

They have every kind. It's. It's like a. It's like a real eye lens thing.

[B]

I learned about blue light filtering. They have blue light filtering lenses.

[A]

The scratch filters, they've got them all. When you need glasses as desperately as I do, a place like this where you can get all the lens stuff in one place. Makes all the difference.

[B]

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[A]

I know. I literally bought like 12 top frames.

[B]

You got to get the glittery ones. Of course.

[A]

There's like five pairs of them. So. Fam. Show the world you've got a sharp eye. Go to pair eyewear.com and use code tcobsessed for 15% off your first pair.

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Get those top frames, girl. ZipRecruiter is back. Look, did you know that according to a recent Zip Recruiter survey, 76% of employers plan to expand headcount for 2025? That is a lot of time spent hiring girl. Yeah.

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com TCO Zip Intro post jobs today.

[B]

Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow.

[A]

Ring, ring. It's the intro.

[B]

It's like amazing. So Dave says, look, it was a really, really tight shot, right? It's a close up on Alec Baldwin's hand. He's pulling out the gun and he goes. And that's it. He said there was no talk of loading it. There was no reason to load the gun. No need of putting any kind of blanks in it or anything. So, Dave, when Hannah showed you the inside of the gun, what did you think you were looking at now, Dave?

[A]

Well, I just. Spoiler alert. Will later cop to complete negligence. I don't think he's looked. I don't think he saw anything. I don't think he gave a shit. I don't think he looked because there clearly was. If she really did spin that, what do you call that thing?

[B]

The. What is that word. I've never held a gun in my life.

[A]

Me either.

[B]

Cylinder.

[A]

The cylinder, yeah. When he was spinning the cylinder. She's saying she spun the thing. There was clearly a bullet in there.

[B]

Because Dave to the cops, is saying there was no need to put any kind of blanks in it or anything. Cut to Hannah, who's like, I loaded it with five of the dummy round before lunch and there was one that wouldn't go in. And so when we got back from lunch, I took the, like, little cleaner guy, I cleaned it out really quick and I put another dummy in there, cleaned out the gun and put one last bullet in it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Was that the live bullet?

[A]

It must have been.

[B]

Now. I'm sorry. The way Hannah is sitting is making me furious. Yeah, she's sitting with her legs kind of crossed and her arm behind her head, leaning back in her chair. She's very cavalier. She's being a little bit of a fuck. Know it all.

[A]

I totally agree. Now, not to defend anybody, but I think everyone. I don't think anyone knows how bad it is. I don't think anyone knows that Helena's dying. I think they just can't imagine that that's where this is going.

[B]

And that is totally fair.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just Alec Baldwin is on his feet acting it out. Dave, the dp, they're on. Everyone's trying to get to the bottom of it. And Hannah is. Cool guy. Joe. Yes, Joe Cool. Sorry, Snoopy, I didn't mean to bring you into this. I love Joe Cool. He is very cool.

[A]

I don't know who that is.

[B]

Joe Cool is one of Snoopy's Personas.

[A]

Oh, is it like.

[B]

Oh, he's the way he wears the sunglasses and the shirt that says Joe Cool, and he's always kind of like leaning against something.

[A]

Is that what the Ron Swanson's alter ego character is based on in Parks and Rec where he goes and plays the saxophone in that other town?

[B]

Snoopy, I think, can do anything. So I don't want to say he's not really a saxophone player, I'm sure.

[A]

What is that character's name? I, of course, am Duke Silver. Duke Silver.

[B]

Duke Silver. It's a perfect alter ego. Yeah. No, but Joe Cool is one of Snoopy's Personas. Coolest guy in town. This is not the time for Joe Cool is what I'm trying to say. She's leaning back and she is being cocky. But once again, like the step by step process on a set that everyone is supposed to adhere to. Alec Baldwin, any Actor. When you take a gun from the armorer, you're like, I know what's going on. And there's like, there are cues that are called cold gun, whatever. And like, I don't think any of that's happening. And to me it's like, Alec Baldwin isn't gonna adjust the lighting.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know, so it's like, everyone has a job, everyone stays in their lane.

[A]

And when it's also like, Alec Baldwin, you're the one that was like, who's this idiot person barging through my group of friends who carry an armful of guns yesterday?

[B]

In a perfect world, on a great set, everyone is trusted to stay in their lane. And that helps this machine go.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we're learning slowly but surely that that was really never happening on the set. At least that's how it seems to me.

[A]

No, 100%.

[B]

Because Alec Baldwin says to the cops, I thought I was handed a cold gun. And a cold gun means it's totally empty. There's nothing in it at all. No blanks. Like nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he thought because he says there hasn't been a single problem with a gun in two weeks, that everything's going to be fine. Now, we know that that's not true.

[A]

Well. Right. And we haven't told the listeners that yet.

[B]

Seeing how, you know, firearms were handled.

[A]

On set, like, began to really bother me and just how people would hold guns and, you know, firearms getting pointed.

[B]

At people, you know, I think.

[A]

I think everything really came to a head on the 16th of October when we had the two negligent discharges. Guns have been going off like crazy on this set.

[B]

Now, I don't know. Did he just get there? But he's a producer of this.

[A]

He came in the night before.

[B]

It's patently false that there hasn't been a problem for the last two weeks.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I don't know if he's just saying that because he hasn't heard about a problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or if they heard about problems and they're ignoring it because time is money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Alex says, we're doing a rehearsal. He pulls out the gun. Slow. He cocks the gun and it fires.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it just goes off like he. He was. Because they were. He was asking, should I do this? Because it's a close up shot of. Of like, you know, in a cinematic movie. You're kind of get a close up of the gun and the guy and he's holding it. So that's what it is. And they were Going through rehearsals, seeing what looked good.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So they were trying a bunch of.

[A]

Things, and she was in the room that she shouldn't have been in because the crew had walked off. And Video Village wasn't set up. She told him to point the gun at her, not to blame the victim, but that's what happened.

[B]

Yeah, that. Because it was rehearsal and they were just. It was a cold gun and they were. Whatever. They were just trying to work things out. And they were on the skeleton crew, as you said. They were just trying to get things moving.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then he's saying. Basically saying he's holding the gun, and all of a sudden it fires and he jumps. Because, again, that's the last thing anyone would expect. And the sound, even if it was the way it was supposed to be.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's still not the sound that it should be on a set.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's a real fucking gunshot.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But then this is where everyone learns that it was a real, actual bullet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like Alec Baldwin is told, and he's like, I don't. I just. I can't. Like, he can't even form sentences.

[A]

He literally says, this is the craziest thing that's ever happened to me in my life.

[B]

Like, it's. I cannot stress enough how insane it is.

[A]

He says, not so not. Did I rehearse with a hot gun. I rehearsed with a gun with a bullet inside. And this is where he's starting to understand the magnitude of what's going on here.

[B]

Right. And the question is, like, where did this come from?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where did this come from? Because, like, even Dave, the first ad is like, there's no reason to have Live Real Emma on a set. Like, everyone I know, we're saying it a million times, but, like, you have to understand how insane it is.

[A]

And the cop says, yeah, this isn't adding up to us either. And the implication in this moment is like, did somebody do this on purpose?

[B]

Now we cut to Hannah the armorer, and she doesn't seem as horrified as everybody. El. And she's sitting, and she still has her hands behind her head, kind of, like, relaxing. And she goes, yeah, I don't know. And I'm like, here's the thing, Hannah. It's your job to know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then she goes, I wish I would have checked it more.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Kind of mumbling.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that, to me, is really unsettling. Just this complete lack of empathy or responsibility about what happened.

[A]

I also can't believe none of them have asked for lawyers. They all got Read their Miranda. Right.

[B]

We heard it.

[A]

None of the. Right. And even Alec Baldwin didn't ask for a lawyer. I'll guess. How bad would that have looked? But, like. But, yeah, none of them did.

[B]

Everyone ask for a lawyer. I don't care how bad it looks. Do it.

[A]

And then we see the moment in the interrogation room where Alec Baldwin is told by the police that Helena is dead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is brutal. Like, the cops say to him, like, we're sorry to tell you, but she didn't make it.

[B]

Oh. No emotion from the cops.

[A]

You know, And I think that's how they have to do it. Yeah. And he. I mean, like, his whole life has just changed.

[B]

He knows it changed. And the cops told him before the press could.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But everybody else.

[A]

And what's so fucked is before we had cops at set and we had people from production at the hospital before we heard anything officially that she had passed, it came out online. Someone was like, she died. The producers who were at the hospital and could have told somebody in the tent did not do that. They are all reading it on their phones.

[B]

And I just. It's. It's so horrifying.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

To think of this absolute. And I cannot stress enough, completely avoidable tragedy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then even in the aftermath of it, it's like chaos upon chaos upon chaos. And I just can't imagine being a professional on that set and having truly nothing make sense.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, I. I've. I've been in. In situations where I feel like I'm losing my mind, where I've asked Mike, like, can you touch my arm? I'm real. Right. Like, I. I haven't been any. Anywhere close to something that's. I can't imagine how out of body and how. How nothing seems makes any sense in life anymore.

[A]

It's so wild. I don't know if I've ever told this story on this podcast before. Oh, I'm getting chills just thinking of it. When I was a bartender years and years ago, I worked at a restaurant where they had just hired this young kid who's probably, like, in his early 20s to be, like, an assistant to the wine director. Right. And one of our main wine reps decided to take the entire bar staff out to this fancy dinner, and we all went to Budokan and we had this, like, big fancy din. And this kid came with us, and he was, like, a really sweet, like, really nice kid. Like, I had gotten to know him over, like, the last couple of days. He was like. We were training him behind the bar. A little bit. And we all went to dinner and I went home at like 10 o'clock that night and I got to work the next day and found out that he died horrifically the night before.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And it's the kind of thing that I think a lot of these people must be feeling in the tent in that moment, which is, I just met him, we've only worked together for two weeks, like most of these people in this movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I felt a connection to this kid. I liked him, I had a work relationship with him. Like, he was a really sweet guy. We talked a lot about our families the night before and now he's gone tragically. So I can relate to that feeling a little bit of like, I mean, I was a wreck. I was. I barely knew this person, but I was a wreck about it for months.

[B]

Yeah. That's terrifying.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm just saying that, like, I like these mixed in with everything else. Like these people that are in this tent that are finding out via the Internet that their colleague is dead, they've got to deal with all of those emotions now as well. You know, it's. What a crazy thing.

[B]

And then let's not forget the crew members who walked off saying, I tried.

[A]

To tell somebody, but also saying, if I had been there, this wouldn't have happened. You know, they're on survivor's guilt.

[B]

Right, of course, of course. Like a video village was a thing then, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Travel down the road.

[A]

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[A]

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Chocolate vegetables.

[B]

Say no more.

[A]

I know.

[B]

What else is there to say? Nothing. But now the story is all over the place. And Helena's name was erased from this instantly.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She's.

[A]

It becomes Alec Baldwin killed somebody on a movie set.

[B]

A woman or some or whatever. And so her name, they're not even saying her name. She's just like some woman and paparazzi's hiding in Joel, who's the director who was shot and survived taking pictures of him with his. And he's like.

[A]

I remember thinking that night, I'm like, I just, I didn't want to. I hoped I didn't wake up the next morning. There wasn't a why about it. I just felt so devastated that I just thought maybe this is a good place for it to all stop.

[B]

You know, I just didn't want to wake up anymore. What was the point of living? And he says, you know, like they just want a picture of the guy who got shot by Alec Baldwin.

[A]

I mean this was high Covid time. There was not a lot going on in the world. This was the biggest story in the world for a minute.

[B]

And it's just like when you do have a recognizable household name like Alec Baldwin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not that no one, no victim should ever be erased in any way. But of course everyone's going to pick it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And because he's had other controversies, controversies in the press before where it's like, oh, like I know that there are People who heard about this news, like people in the press and in the media who went, oh, fucking great. Because there's something for them to cover and talk about and obsess over.

[A]

Yep. On the 24 hour news cycle, all nuances lost. I didn't know anything about the actual nuances of the scene they were shooting until I watched this this morning. Morning.

[B]

Yeah. The minute I heard that, people walked.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was like, why?

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

What is going on?

[A]

Yeah. And we're going to learn later, like, there was a lot of gun safety issues was one of their list of reasons why they were walking out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So OSHA is here. OSHA is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. We meet Lorenzo and he's here to say that every person in America has the right to a safe workplace. And it's OSHA's job to enforce that. So they are here to investigate and really they're investigating.

[B]

The big question everyone wants to know, how was there a live round on this? So Loren Lorenzo says, who I love, because he's all business, so. Yeah, doesn't have time for anyone. Shit.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

He says, this is bigger than we all think.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so it's tricky because he says, like a film set isn't like a factory or like a construction site.

[A]

They're normal stomping grounds.

[B]

There's like a ton of questions that he has right off the bat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So OSHA interviewed 14 members of the cast and crew. And Lorenzo said, my gauge for this workplace was that it was a good, good culture.

[A]

Where it wasn't was on the safety aspect.

[B]

Except the safety aspect.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now Lane, the crew member who led the walkout is here with us.

[A]

And he's also on Good Morning America.

[B]

He's everywhere because he's saying, I tried to tell them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's very, very clear because we see the texts, we see the emails. I have to talk to you about the safety of weapons. Things are often played fast and loose.

[A]

And he says, especially when it comes to gun safety. He said the way guns were handled on set was a real problem. Very casual. Guns were pointed at people all the time and there were misfires.

[B]

Now, the fatal shooting happened on October 21st. Yeah, October 16th. There were two negligent discharges. And a negligent discharge is when a firearm or special effect goes off unexpectedly.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which means it doesn't need someone to cock it or do anything else, it just goes off.

[A]

The guy, Lorenzo, from osha tells us, the first time this happens, everything should stop and an investigation should Commence now. This is the thing about this low budget movie. They couldn't stop.

[B]

Right. You know, they didn't want to stop money.

[A]

Exactly. Right. There was no way they were going to stop. And it's like the camera crew was the first to recognize how totally unsafe this was now.

[B]

Yeah, something should have happened after the first one. It wasn't. So what happened was Alec Baldwin's stunt double had accidentally fired two blanks when he was told a prop gun was cold, which is what Alec Baldwin was told was cold when the fatal shooting happened. And the film's prop master shot herself in the foot with a blank round.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

I mean, this set seems like a fucking mess.

[A]

And you know, Lorenzo's gonna say later something to the effect of, like, any tragedy that happens on set only happens after a series of accidents.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, like what. What they're saying is that there actually is a recognizable pattern, that when you see this number of acts, any number one accident like this that happens on set, it's going to lead to. With a gun. Exactly.

[B]

On a Western.

[A]

And it's like, that's what everybody should have been paying attention to. You get one of these things, you get two. They had three of these avoidable accidents preceding Helena's murder.

[B]

Yeah. Because Lane says, we see the text. We've now had three accidental discharges. This is super unsafe. And Lorenzo from OSHA says, yeah, they thanked him for his time and we'll make a note of it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And nothing happened. Dave hall, the first AD also who is in charge of overall safety on set, tells OSHA Dave Halls doesn't know.

[A]

He'S supposed to investigate an accident as.

[B]

The civilian safety coordinator after a misfire.

[A]

Certainly that would be something to review.

[B]

Did you review what happened?

[A]

I did not review Dave hall, who.

[B]

Was fired from two other gigs for unsafe practices.

[A]

Like, is there a training program for first ads that are supposed to be the safety czar? I mean, you know what I mean?

[B]

Seriously. And now Hannah, the armorer doesn't speak up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She doesn't adjust what she's doing in.

[A]

Her deposition, talking about this. She laughs.

[B]

She laughed.

[A]

She goes, I fully expected to get canned at. She knows this is her fault. This is her area. The fact that there's been three gun mish. She's chuckling, saying, I fully expected to get canned after that, but if anyone talked to anyone about it, nobody told me.

[B]

So no one production isn't going to Hannah and telling her to fix her shit or fire her and get someone else. And Hannah's saying, like, well, I'm just going to be here until they eventually fire me for all of these mishaps, which is not a mishap when someone ends up dead with guns. With guns. On a western.

[A]

On a western. Why are we making westerns? And like, make another scream.

[B]

Make another scream. I love scream.

[A]

I know, me too.

[B]

But this is why the crew bailed everybody. It wasn't just like, oh, they didn't like that. They had to drive a long way. Like, that's part of it. They weren't getting paid. Not Covid safe and guns were going off.

[A]

And once again, they walked off in protest. They didn't walk off to quit the job. They walked off to make the set safer, it seems to me.

[B]

And because they say we were shocked that they didn't close down production.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They kind of called their bluff because they walked off thinking, okay, because what should have happened, the union rules are, when this happens, you have to. You should shut down for 24 to 48 hours. They said, okay, we'll just be a non union set now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they kept going. The people who walked off could not believe that that's what happen. They were trying to say, this is our last ditch effort to get someone to notice it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they'll shut down for two days. Somebody dies, they'll shut down for two days and then we'll get our ducks in a row and then we'll go back to work.

[A]

Right.

[B]

No. After lunch, they were up and running. And that is shocking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they were just like, okay, we won't adhere to the union rules. We'll just get non union people.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So three misfires, no investigation, no meetings, no assurances that the issue. Imagine being an actor on that set who can't speak up. And you're like, I'm sorry, I'm. Is my gun safe? I'm at Western. We're filming the big shooting out in two minutes. So Lorenzo from OSHA says, like, what's the chain of command here like? Yes, Hannah's bad at her job, but who allowed her to be on set in the first place? Why didn't anyone like Dave, the safety coordinator, catch this? Right, Because Hannah does an OSHA interview and she says, well, she got the job because they were scrambling to find an armorer because two armorers had bailed at the very last second and they couldn't find anyone who was a local hire in Santa Fe.

[A]

Right. And so, like, she goes, that's how they ended up choosing me. And I'm like, not exactly a ringing endors yourself. Like, that's not like in your LinkedIn profile.

[B]

Because she was cheap.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, she would work for the amount of money they were going to pay her because what they end up doing. Yeah, because she says she wasn't given the time or resources she needed to do her job, and that's just unfair.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She was hired for eight days as the armorer and to cut costs because they were cutting corners wherever they could.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They hired her as a prop assistant for the rest of the time, which doesn't pay nearly as much because the armorer is such an important job.

[A]

And in addition to that, we see text messages and, like, workplace reports where producer Gabrielle Pickle is saying to Hannah, you're spending too much time on your armorer tasks. But then we'll also say, oh, but by the way, you left your firearm unattended. You need to pay more attention to your firearms. So, like, Hannah's like, what am I supposed to do? You can't afford to pay me to do any more armorer work. You need me to do this other stuff. But my work over there isn't done, and this isn't. So in Hannah's defense.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She's being told to stop doing the armorer work.

[B]

And to be totally fair to Hannah, she says, and I quote, when I'm forced to production, when the production is like, you're paying too much attention to the guns. Also, why are you paying attention to the guns?

[A]

Yeah. She was told by Gabrielle Pickle, you're.

[B]

Spending too much time on your firearms tasks.

[A]

By the way, you left a firearm unattended. You need to pay more attention to your firearms.

[B]

Well, which is it? Hurry up. But also pay attention. But hurry up. And you're taking too long. Now, I agree with Lorenzo because Lorenzo's like, which is it? Hurry up. Focus. Focus on what? I agree. But what Gabrielle Pickle is asking are things that Hannah should already have been doing. Yes, but in Hannah's defense, she says in the email, when I forced to do both, that's when mistakes get made. Like the shotgun being unattended. Yes, but what about all of the guns just going off?

[A]

Right.

[B]

What about the negligent discharges? That's on you, Hannah, because you're not taking care of the guns properly. That's on you. Maintenance, repair.

[A]

That's her. But the first time a gun like the first or second time or third time a gun like that goes off, you have to fire her and you have to get a real armorer in there. Who knows what they're doing, but no.

[B]

One wanted to talk about it. Yeah, it was easier and cheaper to kind of keep things moving and let's just get through it.

[A]

But which is all just to. We can't just blame it all on Hannah. You know what I mean?

[B]

I agree. Because Lorenzo says the same thing. She is a symptom.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She. There's a bigger, bigger illness here. And I agree, because we have text messages from Anna saying, I need to train Alec. I need to train these people. And the line producer saying, no more training days. It's too much.

[A]

Alec didn't get his final training day with the gun.

[B]

So Hannah tried to tell production and she was very clear about it, but she also didn't take her own steps to maybe take care of the maintenance of the weapons either, as the armorer. And Dave, the first AD and safety coordinator, also didn't give a shit.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So, yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because Thomas, the crew member who's yelling the OSHA phone call or the OSHA interview, because he's one of the guys who walked out and, like, I get it. And he's like, yeah, they hired a lowball armorer because no one else would do the gig. And he goes. And now here we are, right? And Lorenzo is, like, heard. Yeah, totally heard. But again, Hannah is a symptom of an illness because both, like, red flags were both created and ignored by production.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, production made a lot of these red flags and then swept them onto the road.

[A]

Right. So we learn in 2023, OSHA agreed to settle with Rust Productions, who are not required to admit any wrongdoing. But one month later, Santa Fe District Attorney assigned a special prosecutor to move the criminal case forward against Dave, Hannah and Alec. And Kerry, the special prosecutor is here. And at first she's like, I don't know that this case was really worth prosecuting, but the DA is like, hold my beer and listen to my facts. And suddenly Carrie's like, holy shit.

[B]

Because we see Hannah's second interview with police, and it wasn't. This is real. I mean, this. I was like, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It wasn't just one live bul. Six bullets. Total live bullets were floating around on that movie set. And they had been floating around on that movie set since approximately October 10th. One live round is insane. They are forbidden on sets. Six, six, six. And they were found in various places, including Alec Baldwin's wardrobe, like, on his belt. Like, he had a bunch of bullets on his belt and another one and just, like, randomly mixed in with set approved bullets. There's just, like, a Real bullet in there.

[A]

And we see one of the actors who's got his hands over his face. He's like, we were on set shooting guns every day. He's like, I could have been one of the. I could have killed somebody. I could have been killed.

[B]

This could have happened six more times.

[A]

Russian roulette on that set every single day.

[B]

Imagine how terrifying. Like, it was never safe.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Not for a second.

[A]

The fact that only one person died feels like a miracle.

[B]

I mean, it was never safe at all. How were so many bullets getting mixed in with set, quote, set approved bullets?

[A]

We're gonna kind of learn that it all came in Hannah's bag.

[B]

It's all from Hannah.

[A]

It's all like, Hannah who didn. What she was doing, didn't have anything cataloged. She, like, brought her shit from one set to another. Like, with her own live rounds mixed in. Mixed in. She should be in jail for the rest of her life.

[B]

And, yeah, I mean, it's unbelievable. The negligence is completely. And again, I know she tried to say, I'm spread very thin. I have these two jobs. I know a lot of people tried to tell production, it starts at the top. I understand.

[A]

Yes, fully.

[B]

But again, as the armorer, what she's not not saying is I need more time to separate my bullets.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I need more time to make sure she's not saying that. And she's chuckling about how many times her guns were going off and she thought she was going to, quote, get cans.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And she's sitting with her arms behind her head, kind of being cavalier and, like, snotty about it.

[A]

Well, right. And so Kerry is saying the reason that we're, like, going after these three people, Hannah, she's the one who brought the bullets to the set. Alex, she says, was not required to cock that gun or pull the trigger during rehearsal. And there's evidence that he did both. Both of those things. Also pointing the gun at a person, which is another thing you're not supposed to do.

[B]

Right. And then we learned, though, that apparently Helena was the one. Because this was a rehearsal, and because she's the dp, she was, quote, ironically, sort of telling him where to direct the gun.

[A]

And because there's no reason for her to have thought that there would be a live round of a gun.

[B]

It's rehearsal. We were just, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Dave hall is the first ad, Right. His part of his job is overall safety. And Carrie, the prosecutor goes. Because people make mistakes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's his job to double check and inspect the gun that Hannah the armore is in charge of and he didn't do it.

[A]

And he admits I was negligent in.

[B]

The inspection of that gun. It could have been a more thorough inspection. I pled guilty.

[A]

Pled guilty.

[B]

Oh, I'm negligent. He goes, I pled guilty because I'm guilty.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that was. That kind of took my breath away. You never. You never see that.

[B]

And this guy. I think this is a thing. We've seen this before where it's like, be the first person to take the deal because then you kind of have all the power.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Right. And I think because this guy got off, so he did. He is so culpable here 100% because he took a plea deal admitting to negligent use of a deadly weapon and was given six months probation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He is the safety coordinator. He okayed that weapon. And he had been fired from sets before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For negligence and safety issues.

[A]

We also, like, right before this. See that famous interview with Alec Baldwin. Look, the first time he sat down after all of this went down, and the interviewer says, do you. It's George Stephanopoulos. And he's like, do you feel guilty? And he says, no. He says, I know that someone is responsible for her death, but I just don't know who it is. I know that it's not me.

[B]

Because what he's saying is I don't agree with how it all went down in that interview. It's very jarring to say.

[A]

I remember watching. I mean, I was like, holding my breath watching that.

[B]

I don't know how I wouldn't feel guilty and. And just not want to wake up anymore.

[A]

His lawyer is like, you just can't take any accountability. Like, you just can't take any. That's what I'm sure what the lawyer.

[B]

Is and what he. They would say is if we're taking all of our emotions and feelings out of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Alec Baldwin's job is the actor. Like we said before, he's not fixing the lighting. If the armorer tells him that it's okay. He's held a gun before.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

On many a set.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the armorer said, it's a cold gun. It's a cold gun. His responsibility ends there. Is what he's trying to say here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You know, 100%.

[B]

So it's February 2024, which. Because now we're in the era of documentaries where they happened yesterday.

[A]

I know that was last year when.

[B]

We started this little thing. I mean, this little show of ours.

[A]

Yeah. These. These trials were happening in 1985, you.

[B]

Know, 90 something, 90 whatever. 10 years ago. And now things are happening so quick. February 24th. I was like, that was yesterday.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So Hatta's trial, she faces a maximum of three years in prison. Let that sink in.

[A]

And prosecutor Carrie says, I wanted to.

[B]

Negotiate a plea that would have kept her out of jail and wasn't successful. Every criminal defendant has a constitutional right to a trial, and that was the decision that she made.

[A]

Every criminal defendant has the right to a trial, and that was the decision she made.

[B]

I think that's insane. That feels insane to me. Especially when on paper, your job is to ensure the safety of all the weapons on set.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And you're gonna present that to a jury.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That seems like a risk. Apparently, part of the deal was that she would have to admit where the bullets came from, and she didn't wanna do that.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

That's apparently, apparently, apparently that is the answer.

[A]

They came from her fucking gym bag.

[B]

Or her dad or something. Cause Carrie says, I don't know. Carrie. The prosecutor drops that in. I don't know if her dad gave them to her. I don't know. But it doesn't matter where they came from. What matters is that they were there on Hannah's watch.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And there were six of them. Yeah, six of them. Carrie says the fact of the matter is, is that Hannah loaded a live bullet into a gun.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It led to Helena being killed and Joel being injured. That is a fact. And it's her job to make sure that doesn't happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, on paper.

[A]

Right. And the jury agrees. Like, it takes the jury less than three hours to reach a verdict. She's found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. She goes to prison. 18 months she gets.

[B]

Yeah, because she says, like, oh, this was the box I had on the other show I was working on. And it's all the same box.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, Carrie's, like, it's kind of proven that she.

[A]

She brought the bullets to the set at the trial.

[B]

I remember this from when I was, like, obsessed with, like, when it was happening. The prosecution was arguing because Hannah had invoiced the production for some, like, tool or something that helps you take ammunition apart to turn real bullets into fake ones. So. Which is something that, like, an armorer would do, like, at their office. Offset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So because she had ordered that tool, there's, like, an invoice for it. The prosecution was trying to say that Hannah was making her own, like, dummy bullets, and that's how this sort of happened.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

There witnesses and texts between Hannah and other people about, like, Hannah was drunk and. Or high while she was in possession of all of her ammunition, which is like, a huge red flag.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And apparently there was a statement that a crew member made to the Rap or Variety or something, saying that members were taking prop guns using real bullets to, like, shoot beer cans in between takes, including the firearm that killed Helena. And so no one's sure if they were checked after the fact or what.

[A]

And, like, this is all on Hannah's watch.

[B]

Like, there should have been a checklist. Like a Natalie Grillo style. Do we have everything? Tr. Natalie would be amazing at this because she cares.

[A]

Natalie, you cannot go be an armorer.

[B]

We need to go be an armor. There should be like a. You know, like when you check out a bathroom key in a shared office, it's like that. That rudimentary. You shouldn't be like, did I check that gun?

[A]

If you're the armorer, you shouldn't be allowing your fucking friends on props to be taking your gun out to shoot beer cans in between takes.

[B]

Which is, like, unconfirmed. But it's a story that a lot of people told. I don't know anything about anything. I'm Joe Cool over here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the jury deliberates three hours. She's guilty of involuntary manslaughter. She gets 18 months.

[A]

So Alec Baldwin's trial begins, and the central question is, like, did he fire.

[B]

The gun or did a misfire? Which happened three times. Previously on the set.

[A]

Right. And, like, none of this ends up mattering because on the third day of the trial. Make this make sense. Alec Baldwin's attorney accuses the prosecution of failing to turn over evidence. It's something about turning over all of the live ammunition found on the set. I don't understand why this is important. Kerry agrees with me, but the judge does not. Because the judge dismisses the case with prejudice. A dismissal with prejudice means that the prosecution can't bring back this case. It's done. It's over. Alec Baldwin is the equivalent of not guilty, meaning Alec Baldwin will never be tried for this again, and he's basically found not guilty.

[B]

Yeah. I just have a question for Alec Baldwin. He's definitely not going to answer me. Who might sue me for asking the question. To be honest, like, as someone who developed this movie for three years, who was a producer on it, am I to believe that you didn't know about a single issue?

[A]

Right.

[B]

The other misfires, the complaints, the Lack of money. The walkout.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The hiring of cheap labor, not skilled labor. Like, I mean.

[A]

I mean, if his behavior when, like, Hannah walked in between him and Francis Fisher carrying an armful of guns.

[B]

Francis Fisher, the mean mom from Titanic? Excuse me, please use her full government name.

[A]

But it seems like he didn't give a shit. You know what I mean? Like, he was just there to make a sexy western. And.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, can I tell you one.

[B]

More thing about Hannah?

[A]

Please.

[B]

I told you this.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Tell me a little bit while she's in prison serving time for this. In September of 2024, Hannah was convicted on another gun charge. Because she, like, previously. 20 days before the shooting, on the set, she snuck a gun into a bar.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

A vintage gun that she had into a bar. And then, like, went into the bathroom and made an Instagram video or something about, like, here's how I snuck in my gun.

[A]

No.

[B]

So in, like, as she's.

[A]

And, like, tied to the bar in her.

[B]

Of course, in Santa Fe, I mean, everywhere. You shouldn't bring a gun. But there are signs all over the place, everywhere in Santa Fe, being like, you cannot bring guns gun into a bar. And she did and was, like, happy to sneak it in. So, like, as she's serving time, she had to be. She had to stand before a judge to talk about this bullshit, too.

[A]

Hannah, what is going on?

[B]

What are we doing?

[A]

Hannah?

[B]

Like, what are we doing?

[A]

I know.

[B]

And then she's on the phone with her mom talking about how everyone's an idiot and, like, she's being blamed for all. Like, Hannah, girl, like, you gotta, like, get your shit together, man. It's not cool. Not cool at all. So Alec Baldwin is, like, just. The game's over for him.

[A]

Yeah, like.

[B]

Like, the trial's over.

[A]

The case, I mean, we learned. In 2022, the Hutchins family filed a civil suit against Rust Productions and the other responsible parties, including Alec Baldwin and Hannah. After extended negotiations, the party reached a confidential settlement that made it so that the movie Rust could be completed.

[B]

Now, Matt, Helena's husband, really, really, really wanted this to happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so did Helena's mother.

[A]

Because everyone else was like, like, wait, what? They said, matt wants it done. And I said, look, I believe you, but I'm not coming back for anything.

[B]

Unless I hear it from his mouth.

[A]

And they put me on a zoom with him. And he said he wanted finished and. And she would want it finished and people to see her work. And of course, it took a lot of people talking to Hannah's family to be convinced to go do it. Yeah.

[B]

Because it was Hannah's family and her husband Matt specifically saying, like, wait a second, she worked really hard on this. She would have wanted the same be completed. It's not fair that her. All of her hard work and her vision now is down the drain because of this. Like, to honor her, we got to.

[A]

Finish her final film, you know, and.

[B]

It'S amazing because Bianca, the new DP is here. She has Helena's. Helena's job now. But they're using footage from the first shoot and combining it with reshoots.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And like, yes. Alec Baldwin returned to Seth.

[A]

I mean, that is wild.

[B]

Yeah, he returned to set and he filmed for like a month. He's in the finished movie.

[A]

I wonder if that was part of the deal. Like, you have to go finish this.

[B]

I think it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because her husband Matt is an executive producer on. So I think people were giving a lot to the other side. But it's really cool. Cause like we see her notebooks, Helena's notebooks and her ideas and like they're all. They're incorporating all of this. Like her notebooks are still on set for the final product, which is a really beautiful thing. And all of her, like the script read through and she says, like, always think where the safe place for Video village would be. Like, she was always thinking about other people and like, it's just everyone's emotional to be back here again and also I think a little traumatized. And it's a different set now. They moved it to a different location.

[A]

Oh, they. Because all the actors are there. That's where all of these actor interviews come from, is them being back on set for the reshoot costume. Yeah.

[B]

Talking to us. So that's like, this is a very. It's like an all encapsulating moment, this documentary where we're like talking with these people in the costumes they were in when this tragedy happened. Yeah, it's kind of amazing.

[A]

It's also crazy to see them shooting scenes with guns. But we learned that the director, Joel, will never use an actual real gun. They're all rubber guns on his sets.

[B]

Going forward forever and ever.

[A]

Forever. I mean, he got shot too.

[B]

And we. Of course, yeah. And we see Andy the new armorer. And this is how an armorer should be.

[A]

And he literally is saying to the cast, yeah, I'm Andy the armorer. And we also have our two safety specialists here. I'll make sure that you feel good, you feel safe, and you feel comfortable.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Everyone on my set will always be safe and taken care of.

[B]

That's, like, the norm.

[A]

They even get an armorer for the rubber guns that don't have any space for bullets.

[B]

Of course you should. It's a peace of mind thing. It's a safety thing. And now they have, like, two safety specialist. But, like, he has. This Andy guy has the authority you need for the role. Yes, that. A cheap hire that you also have working multiple jobs on God.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And not focus on the most important thing. Andy. He's stepping into that. I feel safe with Andy around. I know that what Andy gives me I can use confidently and do my job as the actor or. Or the lighting or whatever. Not worrying. Oh, God.

[A]

I know.

[B]

The six live or whatever.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You just feel safe around.

[A]

And Rust premiered in Poland in 2024. It was at a screening in Poland that, like, Helena and all of her friends, like, loved and would.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was her dream to have her movie premiere there. So that's where they premiered it.

[B]

So after all of these, like, the irresponsibility and the negligence that really, like, permeated that set, like, from top to bottom, it was so avoidable on so many levels. And the production to create the red flags and then ignore the red flags, I think is just unconscionable. And I think there are so many other people and I just don't think responsible for this.

[A]

I agree. And I think that the punishments aren't severe enough to make it a cautionary tale for other productions.

[B]

I don't. I don't know why, you know, why a single producer wasn't called in other than Alec Baldwin. I know Alec Baldwin because they, you know, he was the famous one. But, like, what about this Gabrielle Pickle who was like, the next.

[A]

You're spending too much time looking at the guns.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, you're not looking at the guns enough. You're doing too much. Like, I don't understand why. Why more people higher up weren't called in.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. I agree.

[B]

I don't know. But the movie got made and Helena's movie was made. And so now we have this movie and this documentary to really talk about what actually happened here.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, girl, we did it.

[B]

We did it.

[A]

What's it called?

[B]

It's called Last Rust and the Story of Helena.

[A]

It was one of those things that was all over pop culture for a while.

[B]

Everyone had an opinion. No one really knew what was going on.

[A]

No. It was really interesting to get the story about what really happened on this set. It's wild. Helena is amazing. I'm glad that her work will live on.

[B]

I was really moved to see her notebooks also on that set. And like, we're still bringing her notes and vision to life. I thought that was really, really beautiful, fam.

[A]

Go check out our YouTube channel. Subscribe, watch our videos, tell your friends about it. I'm very excited. Join our Patreon. If you like drag bingo, if you like bonus episodes, if you like ad free episodes and us sending you some stuff in the mail from time to time.

[B]

There's like a lot of stuff you'd have to be like, no, I don't like those things.

[A]

What are we doing next?

[B]

Girl, we are doing. This is on Netflix. It's called the state of Alabama versus Brittany Smith. It's about a woman who tried to use the stand you'd ground law, but turns out that only applies to white men, weirdly enough.

[A]

So interesting.

[B]

Yeah. But we're going to learn about Britney Smith.

[A]

All right, well, stay tuned for the trailer for that. And we love you, fam.

[B]

Yeah, we love you.

[A]

All right, bye.