425: Worst Ex Ever: Killing for Custody

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed - Episode 425: "Worst Ex Ever: Killing for Custody"

Introduction

In Episode 425 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Worst Ex Ever: Killing for Custody," hosts Julia Betavale and Patrick Hines delve deep into a harrowing true crime case featured in the Netflix series Worst Ex Ever. This episode meticulously unpacks the tragic story of Eric and Rosa Hill, exploring the dark path from a seemingly idyllic marriage to a labyrinth of manipulation, violence, and ultimately, murder. Through their signature blend of humor, sass, and heartfelt commentary, Julia and Patrick provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the case, enriched with notable quotes and critical insights.

Case Overview

The episode centers on the tumultuous relationship between Eric Hill and Rosa Hill, whose marriage spiraled into a nightmare fueled by Rosa's obsessive desire for custody of their daughter. The narrative unfolds with Rosa's calculated maneuvers to isolate Eric from his family and friends, setting the stage for a series of devastating events.

Background: Eric and Rosa's Relationship

Eric Hill, portrayed as a dedicated and hardworking individual, found himself ensnared in a marriage with Rosa Hill, a woman with a domineering and manipulative personality.

• Eric's Perspective: “[02:35] I am very lucky to be alive today. If they had gotten away with it, you know, my daughter would never know who I was. But I did step up to this challenge, and I did persevere.”

Rosa's introduction into Eric's life brought initial hope, with both appearing deeply in love. However, beneath the surface, Rosa's controlling nature began to emerge.

• Patrick on Rosa's Control: “[10:27] And Rosa debers to May, so it's like being passed down in that family.”

Escalation: Isolation and Control

Rosa systematically isolated Eric from his support network, employing tactics such as whispering into his ear during conversations and controlling phone communications. This isolation exacerbated Eric's mental health, leading to severe depression.

• Julia on Manipulation: “[20:27] It's always the same thing. The isolation, the control.”

Despite Eric's relentless efforts to maintain a semblance of normalcy—juggling multiple jobs to support his family—Rosa's manipulation intensified, culminating in threats of divorce and increasing physical confrontations.

• Patrick on Eric's Struggles: “[26:18] So he'd get off work at 5p, sleep for a few hours, maybe sleep for a few hours, then go to work from 11:30pm through 5pm the next day.”

Violent Events: The Murder of Sally Hill

The situation reached a critical juncture when Rosa, accompanied by her mother May, violently confronted Eric, culminating in the brutal murder of Sally Hill, Eric's beloved grandmother. This heinous act was part of a premeditated plan to eliminate obstacles in Rosa's quest for full custody.

• Julia Describes the Attack: “[43:55] Etimum movement someone call that step on in the last years of the border fight Blaise and what happens include the thing in their house on the oh my God.”

The confrontation was chaotic, with Eric being assaulted and ultimately left fearing for his life as Rosa attempted to frame him for the murder.

• Eric's Desperation: “[45:04] I couldn't do anything for her. I just didn't want to die.”

Investigation and Unraveling the Crime

Law enforcement intervention was delayed until neighbors reported suspicious activity, preventing the complete execution of Rosa and May's plan. The discovery of Sally Hill's body in a locked shed unveiled the depth of their malevolence.

• Patrick on the Evidence: “[56:31] They also found a black backpack on the side of the house. It included braided rope, crossbows, a hunting knife, and other disturbing items.”

Forensic evidence, including DNA traces and meticulous planning documents labeled "Operation Custody," further implicated Rosa and May in the conspiracy to destroy Eric's life.

• Julia on the Forensic Findings: “[58:25] So they wrote, we're back again. It is never going to happen. You are not smarter than DNA.”

Conclusion: Justice and Aftermath

The trial concluded with Rosa Hill being convicted of the murder of Sally Hill and the attempted murder of Eric Hill, receiving a sentence of 25 years to life. May Hill was also convicted of premeditated attempted murder, serving a life sentence. Eric, despite enduring immense suffering, emerged as a survivor, dedicating himself to co-parenting his daughter and rebuilding his life.

• Eric's Resilience: “[62:36] I survived and I'm doing great. Rosa and me.”

The hosts close the discussion by highlighting the importance of recognizing and seeking help in abusive relationships, emphasizing the value of support systems in overcoming such traumatic experiences.

• Julia's Final Call to Action: “[29:37] If you have gotten yourself out of a situation, thank God. And you need to go to them. Go to them.”

Notable Quotes

1. Eric Hill on Survival:
   “[02:17] I am very lucky to be alive today. If they had gotten away with it, you know, my daughter would never know who I was. But I did step up to this challenge, and I did persevere.”

2. Patrick on Control Tactics:
   “[10:27] And Rosa defers to May, so it's like being passed down in that family.”

3. Julia on Manipulation:
   “[20:27] It's always the same thing. The isolation, the control.”

4. Eric's Desperation During Attack:
   “[45:08] Do you really think you're going to get away with this?”

5. Julia on Legal Implications:
   “[56:31] They also found a black backpack on the side of the house. It included braided rope, crossbows, a hunting knife, and other disturbing items.”

Closing Thoughts

Through their engaging narrative and incisive analysis, Julia and Patrick shed light on the complexities of abusive relationships and the devastating consequences that can ensue. This episode serves as a sobering reminder of the importance of vigilance, support, and the pursuit of justice in the face of overwhelming adversity.

Transcript

[Julia Betavale]

Guess what I did today.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. What'd you do?

[Julia Betavale]

I did a really good no big deal.

[Patrick Hines]

I haven't. Oh, you did.

[Julia Betavale]

I did a really good no big deal. Okay, so you know when you just want to like throw like a blanket or like a pillow, you want to make it look like. My mom always says, like, no big deal. Like it's like you didn't try really hard. It just happens to look like that.

[Patrick Hines]

Over the back of a chair.

[Julia Betavale]

It was on our couch. Because I'm a big like under a blanket watching tv, girly. So I'm just like straightening up today. Not like I was laying around today. I'm just saying I was like straightening up the living room and I did a purple. Perfect. No big deal. Like it. That will be ruined when I go home and watch tv.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God.

[Julia Betavale]

But I did it and I felt really good about it.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to look you in the eye and say congratulations.

[Julia Betavale]

Thank you.

[Patrick Hines]

Congratulations.

[Julia Betavale]

It feels awesome. It feels really good.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Julia Betavale.

[Julia Betavale]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Patrick Hines]

Look, we gotta tell the fam We've got a YouTube channel. We are loving it so much. Tell them what's going on right now.

[Julia Betavale]

So we redid our studio so we actually have space. And I'm sitting. We're like sitting in these new chairs and we have like a whole new setup now. It's amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

We did. We're redesigning for YouTube. It's not all the way there yet. We're gonna add a little more decoration or whatever. But like we are so invested in YouTube, fam. If you haven't checked it out yet, just follow the link in the show notes here or just search True crime obsessed on YouTube. People are subscribing to the channel. People are watching our videos. We give good YouTube.

[Julia Betavale]

I seriously. Okay, good.

[Patrick Hines]

I know you don't like to watch it, but like I.

[Julia Betavale]

It just makes me self conscious.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. But I. I get really into it and I like. We're very expressive. It's very, very, very fun. Even for me. It's fun to watch us.

[Julia Betavale]

Great. Yeah, I'm in.

[Patrick Hines]

So that's it. Check it out. True Crime obsessed on the YouTube. What are we talking about today, girl?

[Julia Betavale]

Okay. Worst ex ever. This is the series on Netflix. It's episode three. It's called Killing for Custody.

[Patrick Hines]

Most murders are committed by people that you know. But having an entire family involved is definitely a rare sight. Honey, weather thing.

[Julia Betavale]

All of a sudden we started screaming.

[Patrick Hines]

What are sound like a shot. He's got his little two year old.

[Julia Betavale]

Daughter with him.

[Patrick Hines]

We had no idea what we had.

[Julia Betavale]

Who's my suspect?

[Patrick Hines]

Who's my victim?

[Eric Hill]

I am very lucky to be alive today. If they had gotten away with it, you know, my daughter would never know who I was. But I did step up to this challenge, and I did persevere.

[Patrick Hines]

So first of all, these worst exevers. Roommates ever, like, they open so, like, horrifyingly horror movie. Like.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes. And this is like a horror movie.

[Patrick Hines]

It's the Blumhouse. Blumhouse. Wherever you say it, they're the one who makes all those, like, my butt clenches. The second we get the first note.

[Julia Betavale]

Of music, it's terrifying. So we're with Eric. It's the early 2000s. We're in California.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

He's starting a new career. He works for the Alameda County Social Services. He's an eligibility technician.

[Patrick Hines]

He loves that he gets to, like, help people on a grand scale.

[Julia Betavale]

He loves it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

He loves his job. And he says he's not very social, but he has, like, his small core group of friends. They hang out, they do what they do. Ryan, Eric's BFF is here, and I fucking love Ryan.

[Patrick Hines]

I just want to say these.

[Julia Betavale]

Ryan sees everything for what it is.

[Patrick Hines]

He. Yeah, he's the you of the group.

[Julia Betavale]

I love Ryan, but he also.

[Patrick Hines]

These guys are so wonderfully nerdy. These are the guys that are like. Like, at one point, Ryan talks about. It's not honorable to say, not nice.

[Julia Betavale]

I know. They're very sweet.

[Patrick Hines]

They're so. And Ryan's like, we've been friends for, like, 30 years. And by friends, I mean we get together and play Xbox all weekend.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, they play. They hang out, they play video games. They. They. Ryan calls them kindred spirits. Yeah, he's like, they're great.

[Patrick Hines]

They're so sweet.

[Julia Betavale]

And Ryan has the most amazing things to say about Eric.

[Eric Hill]

Eric is very bright. Man's got a mind like an encyclopedia. Good person, good friend, all around a good guy. If you have a problem with a man like him, then it's probably on you.

[Julia Betavale]

If you have a problem with a man like him, then that's on you. And I'm like, that's a life goal.

[Patrick Hines]

For someone to say about it a million percent. I gotta stop the recording for one second and just say, like, it is so amazing to look across the room and see your face.

[Julia Betavale]

Well, for the people out there, sorry, fam.

[Patrick Hines]

We won't do this every week, but we gotta tell you, it's very different in here.

[Julia Betavale]

We used to have this big. It's a very small studio.

[Patrick Hines]

This space, it feels big now.

[Julia Betavale]

It feels big now. But we had this really. This, like, too big round table that took up a lot of space. But we had, like, the ring light and then the c. And then the phone, camera stands, computers, wires everywhere, chargers everywhere. And we couldn't. Everything was blocking our view to each other. We couldn't see. We truly could not see each other.

[Patrick Hines]

Beautiful face for the first time in three years. Tell them how we're sitting.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, I'm sitting. Like crisscross applesauce.

[Patrick Hines]

Me too. Like, on these chairs, you have, like, a hot pink chair. Like, I'm very cool. Screaming about how cool this is.

[Julia Betavale]

Very cool.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

I'm going to change the chair angle. Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

It's going to be a lot of that for the first couple of weeks.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So anyway, in 2002, Eric tells us he was assigned to a training, and he happened to be sitting next to this woman named May, and they started chatting and they got along, and she was cool, and, you know, she made friends. She's like that lady in the office that's, like, kind of friends with everybody.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. So it's October 2000. May invites Eric to go on a hike with some coworkers, because all of these coworkers get along and, like, socialize outside of work.

[Patrick Hines]

This is no shade to Eric. He does not strike me as the hiking kind.

[Julia Betavale]

You know, I think he.

[Patrick Hines]

Ryan's like, you're doing what?

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. And I think he was like, you know what? He was, like, trying to make it. You know, he was trying to be like, okay, yes, I will.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm a hiker now.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, why not? He loves his job, loves his coworkers. He's, like, trying new things.

[Patrick Hines]

But when Ryan's, like, over here playing Xbox by himself for the first time in decades, and by the end of.

[Julia Betavale]

This, Eric is like, this is why you never go on hikes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, this is blame it on the hike.

[Julia Betavale]

I kind of do. Because when May picks up Eric, she's with her daughter Rosa. And that's when Eric meets Rosa for the first time.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, at first, Rosa sounds like, interesting.

[Eric Hill]

Rosa was an engineer at a tech company. She had a very strong, logical mind, very analytical. I was just fascinated by when she would tell me about her history working in Silicon Valley, and she seemed to enjoy the stupid jokes I would. I would say and make.

[Patrick Hines]

Eric is describing her as having, like, a strong, logical mind, very analytical. I love people like this. I am not like this. So I love meeting people who are very smart. And, like, critically think about things.

[Julia Betavale]

And he was fascinated by her and was like, really genuinely interested in what she did.

[Patrick Hines]

For those of us who go through the world with the meow meow meow meow song in our head all day long, the analytical thinkers of the world, the people like you. It's why we're such a good duo.

[Julia Betavale]

And remember, this was 2000, so the Internet and tech was really new.

[Patrick Hines]

So.

[Julia Betavale]

So Eric was, like, fascinated by her. And he goes, she laughed at all my dumb jokes. Eric is like, I kind of couldn't believe it. I'm with a beautiful woman. It's a beautiful day. She's really smart. She thinks I'm funny. Like, is this heaven? Travel down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. So they're gonna elevate your everyday hygiene with premium wipes in the bathroom. Everyone, we're talking about it. Get into it. I'm gonna be real honest with you.

[Patrick Hines]

One of us had to say it.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. You're getting a much better clean. That no dry toilet paper match. I'm sorry, it's just impossible. It's not the same thing.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, they have a lot of scents. They have rosewater, shea, cocoa, lavender, cedar. Their newest addition is botanical bliss. The point is cedar.

[Patrick Hines]

Interesting choice.

[Julia Betavale]

It's like, nice and woodsy. I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm a big wipes person.

[Julia Betavale]

I'm a big bathroom wipes person.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it too. I'm 100%.

[Julia Betavale]

I don't have a bidet, so this is the best thing I can do. Here's my thing about this. These are actually flushable. A lot of other wipes are not. So these are made with plant based fiber, so they break down easily. Like, using wipes in the bathroom was kind of like a guilty secret I had because I'm like, they're not really biodegradable. They're not really good for the earth, but I'm also not giving them up. So now Good Wipes is here and I don't have to worry about it. I can be honest about it.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Again, that's goodwipes.com TCO to snag a free pack of Good Wife.

[Julia Betavale]

You should do it. I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Eric, it seems like such an awesome. If I met him, I would 100% be his friend. I want her to be like, take me to Ryan's for Xbox. I've never done that one time in my life. I want to do it with you guys.

[Julia Betavale]

It's fun and, like.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's describing Rosa. I don't know. It's like, the first girl that's ever, like, taken him seriously.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. And, like, they're hitting it off. He's genuinely interested in her. It seems like it's mutual. Again, she laughs at his jokes like, he can't believe what's happening to him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And that's all, like, on this day of first meeting. So he builds up the courage to ask Rosa out, and he's like, over the next few months, we just had a ton of fun. Lots of trips, lots of dates. Like, all his friends saw how excited he was. And we meet his father, Gregory.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

They talk at least once a week, sometimes more. They're very close.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And everyone is just saying that Eric seems happy. Now, what I'm not hearing is, oh, my God, Rosa was the best. Like, she really brings out the best in Eric. They bring out the best in each other. What I'm hearing is, we love Eric. Eric loves Rosa. We love that Eric's happy. We're just doing our best.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like the show is called worst Ex ever. And I'm thinking, eric's not the bad guy.

[Julia Betavale]

Eric is not the bad guy. And everyone was like, Eric was really happy. We've never seen him like this. So they're supporting what is making Eric happy, but I'm not hearing a single. Like, Rosa was great. She was a real peach, and she was super fun to be around.

[Patrick Hines]

In fact, Gregory the dad is like.

[Eric Hill]

I met her fairly soon, I guess, into it. And I would ask her questions. She would whisper in his ear, and Eric wouldn't answer.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, you'd be like, rosa, tell me about your job.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

How are you today?

[Patrick Hines]

And then she'd, like, lean into Steve's ear, right.

[Julia Betavale]

And, like, and she would cup her face, whisper to him, and then Eric would answer for her. And BFF Ryan is like, yeah, I couldn't figure out what that was all about.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's the kind of thing where, like, Eric hasn't had a lot of girlfriends, so maybe he doesn't know that. This is really bizarre.

[Julia Betavale]

And Gregory, the dad, says, we just assumed she was really shy, but looking back, it was her way of controlling everyone in the room.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because she's not just doing that. She's, like, listening in on the phone calls.

[Julia Betavale]

Well, also, like, just to go back to the whispering thing. It's fudgeing weird. Like, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that or not anymore. But, like, can you just say it's rude?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Can you just acknowledge the person speaking to you?

[Patrick Hines]

And it's also like, Eric. Also Eric. You can do that, too. Like, you know what I mean? When you're the. Like, when you're the other half of that relationship, it's okay to be like, don't do that.

[Julia Betavale]

And I'm sure she was like, well, like, a million reasons why she had to do that. She's so whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, equally as egregious is, like, the person over listening on the phone.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, he used a. Eric used a code word with his father to let his father know it wasn't a private call. The minute you need code words about this kind of shit, run.

[Patrick Hines]

Now. The thing is, like, even in a much smaller way, I've done this, where you make excuses for the crazy people in your life, always. You know what I mean? But code words, and then you've got a friend looking you in the face being like, this one's crazy.

[Julia Betavale]

You should Just saying, I can't do this anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't do this anymore.

[Julia Betavale]

How many times? How many times do I have to live through this? And bff, this is what BFF Ryan says the honorable thing, because he's like.

[Eric Hill]

I had this uncomfortable feeling about her. I could sense there was a certain tension beneath the surface. I didn't want to say anything at the time because I didn't feel it was honorable to do so. So I held my tongue. It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for.

[Julia Betavale]

I didn't feel it was honorable to say something, but he's honorable.

[Patrick Hines]

He says, yeah, because we're living in the 1500s.

[Julia Betavale]

He's like, the vibes were off from day one.

[Patrick Hines]

It was dishonorable of him.

[Julia Betavale]

It was dishonorable discharge. And he goes, it's the quiet ones you have to watch out for.

[Patrick Hines]

It was a dishonorable discharge. Yeah, but Like, I don't know about that. I also love a quiet person who's like, they're not all craz and like, I know that. Like, we don't. We like saying the word crazy is a catch all. But like, she's crazy and well, she.

[Julia Betavale]

And her mother are both fudgeing insane.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

As we will get to yeah later. But I mean, this show is called worst X ever. It's not like greatest relationship of all time.

[Patrick Hines]

Or else a relationship that ended not, not. Not greatly.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not what this is called.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, please.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Betavale]

So it's February 14, 2004. It's Valentine's Day. They've been dating for four years. Eric proposes to Rosa. She says yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And now we learn about Selma.

[Patrick Hines]

Can we slow down in a second? Unlike he proposed on Valentine's Day, he goes. He goes.

[Julia Betavale]

Eric does things by the book. He sees it as the most romantic date. Like, why? What other day? In Eric's mind, what other day is there to propose? Honestly, give me another day.

[Patrick Hines]

Tis the season and love was in the air. According to Eric. He does things by the book.

[Julia Betavale]

He does. He's like, well, my calculations coming in. Vaughn, it's the most. And I love Eric.

[Patrick Hines]

This is no shout to Eric. I love him too.

[Julia Betavale]

It's just very sweet that he's like, obviously I'm gonna propose to her on Valentine's Day. Like, there's no other day.

[Patrick Hines]

100.

[Julia Betavale]

So this is when we learn about Selma. But Sally. Her name is Selma. She goes by Sally. She's Eric's grandmother.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Eric Hill]

My grandmother was really thrilled at the idea of possibly becoming a great grandmother. I was very close with Sally ever since I was a little kid. She was a doting grandmother. She was a very generous person. She was also very friendly.

[Julia Betavale]

She loves Eric. They're super close. And she like is excited that we're planning a wedding.

[Patrick Hines]

100%.

[Julia Betavale]

She's happy for Eric. Again, nothing about Rosa, but she's excited. She's like, great. This is maybe something Eric I can talk to Rosa about without her whispering to Eric. Sally is in on the planning.

[Patrick Hines]

The way that Eric describes his grandmother in talking about all this, this relationship and the idea of a wedding and a great grandkid is like bringing life back into Sally. You know, he's like, she was. I didn't us see her this energetic. She was in her 80s.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, she loves all of this. She wants to be excited. To her, it makes like the way Eric is like, I'm proposing on Valentine's Day. That makes Sense. It makes sense for Sally where, like, this will be a fun, exciting occasion. Right. As it should be. Right. Like, she's here for it. You know who else wants to be involved? Rose's mom.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So she had a quote.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't believe we haven't gotten to this pitch out of this one yet.

[Julia Betavale]

Very. She's. She has, quote, a very forceful personality.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Which is funny.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, the nicest way to say it.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally. I think it's interesting because I feel like Rosa also has a very strong personality. But we hear that Rose, Rosa defers to May, so it's like being passed down in that family.

[Julia Betavale]

So, like, Rosa did whatever she said, and Eric did whatever Rosa said, and so here we are. Oh. Because he says, I follow Rosa anywhere. And it's like, yeah, this is why.

[Patrick Hines]

We have practice relationships. You know what I mean? Because there are a lot of red flags that, like, looking back, you're like.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, always looking back. Always with the hindsight.

[Patrick Hines]

Always. Not for you, though.

[Julia Betavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Tortured Cassandra.

[Julia Betavale]

No patterns. You hear the, like, exhaustion in my voice. I know I'm not alone in this. I'm not alone.

[Patrick Hines]

You need to find more you's.

[Julia Betavale]

I need to find more me's for sure.

[Patrick Hines]

And fewer mes.

[Julia Betavale]

Chaos does not equal Interesting. We talk about it all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes.

[Julia Betavale]

No, not so. May, of course, took over the wedding plans very quickly.

[Eric Hill]

Rosa and May were really tight, and May often would step in. She was a very forceful personality that Rosa would usually follow, and so would I, because I basically would follow Rosa anywhere.

[Julia Betavale]

Sally can't be a part of it. No one could be a part of it. It's May's way or the freaking highway. So February 2004, they're engaged by the next April. April 2, 2005, they get married.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And, like, Eric is thrilled. He loves Rosa. He loves his family.

[Patrick Hines]

What's the significance of that date for Eric? It's probably somebody's birthday.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, it's definitely not April 1st. Thank God. My least favorite day of the year.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Betavale]

And it's my friend's birthday, too. April 1st.

[Patrick Hines]

I know that you hate April Fools. I was just watching a TikTok about a girl who tapped a sign to the sign to the back of the car that said a honk and flip off my mom for an April fool's joke. And it happened. 25. The mother is losing her mind. Yeah, it is. I was screw. I was sobbing. I was laughing so hard.

[Julia Betavale]

It's just the reason I hate it is the Internet.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

It's like, it's like September 11th and April 1st. I'm like, offline.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

I'm like, not. I'm not believing anything. Don't tell me anything. News good, bad, or indifferent. I'm not believing a single thing on April 1st. I'm just not doing it. And that sucks. Like, that's very annoying to have your guard up.

[Patrick Hines]

Did something happen to you on an April Fool's Day? Did you have a bad one?

[Julia Betavale]

No. It just annoys me, okay? It irritates me. I think it's stupid.

[Patrick Hines]

I get it. I get it. But, like, watching these April Fool's day pranks, some of them are awful to watch, but some of them are very funny.

[Julia Betavale]

So Eric is, like, thrilled. He's like, this is what I wanted my life to be. Like, I. This is it. This is my happily ever after. And even his dad is like, I mean, look, we were all trying really hard to be positive. No one wanted to be miserable. Like, Eric was happy, so they wanted to be happy. Like, and does anyone really super love their in laws? Like, Eric's dad is?

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Judy.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, but I'm just saying, Eric's dad is like, look, I was being positive.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

My son is in love. He's happy. I'm going to kind of go with the flow and do my best. He's not trying to actively be miserable, which is what everyone else seemingly does here.

[Patrick Hines]

The other thing too, is that, like, you can also be happy for your kid and not like, love like the new wife. Just be, like, thrilled that he likes her. Fine. Who cares?

[Julia Betavale]

And, but the thing is, Rosa is doing things that is making this worse for everyone.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So she's super irritable leading up to the wedding. She's very stressed out. She wasn't having any fun planning it. Like, it wasn't a happy time for her, which, whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

I can understand that.

[Julia Betavale]

They go to Hawaii on their honeymoon, and Rosa hasn't lightened up at all.

[Eric Hill]

When we got to Hawaii on our honeymoon, my hope was that Rosa could relax because during the preparations for the wedding, she was stressed out. I mean, planning was hard, and we just ended up having a lot of arguments. It's like she was always kind of agitated.

[Julia Betavale]

What is your problem? I just got married. The stress is over. You're in Hawaii for, I think, like, two weeks.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, why do people insist on being miserable?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I think we're gonna learn that she never really wanted to be with him in the first place. I think that, like, we're gonna learn that, like, the mom, like, Pressured her to have kids. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not making excuses for her, but it seems like she was faking it for a really long time and now she's just done fake.

[Julia Betavale]

But she never seemed happy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

She always seemed like a fucking drip or someone like you had to make excuses for or apologize for. She was never, like, light and fun to be around.

[Patrick Hines]

No. But what always surprises me in these things is how easily people can hide their psychoticness.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because there's different difference between being, like, irritable and not fun and annoying and being, like, a murderous psychopath. We're going to find out which is.

[Julia Betavale]

Going to happen in two seconds.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because on this honeymoon, Eric is saying, like, I wanted her to relax. All she wanted to do was argue. It gets to the point where, like, by the end of the first week, she's throwing punches at him, and he.

[Julia Betavale]

Says, like, none of them landed, but it was a major red flag.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And just like that serious thing aside, just like, why do you insist on being miserable at a beautiful resort on your honeymoon? I promise you, your problems will be there for you when you get home. Totally at the resort. Lean into it. He insisted on being miserable, and so he. They must have been there for a really long time, because he says, a week into our honeymoon fight, that's a long.

[Patrick Hines]

That's a. That's too long.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. So again, we see this all the time, especially with men, but, like, they get married and then everything changes totally. So that's what is happening. And then on top of that, this train is never late. The money problems start after we were.

[Eric Hill]

Married and setting up our life together. I'd already gone deep into debt with the wedding and the. And the honeymoon. I was working, but Rosa was not. So we started having money problems. We had a lot of arguments about that.

[Julia Betavale]

He paid for the wedding and the honeymoon. He was already in debt.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And, like, this is making the fighting get worse. And once again, he says she never led with physical violence, but the fighting was all the time. I. I didn't want to go home. I'm afraid to, like, be in my own house. And I knew that she wasn't afraid of the physical violence because of what have had happened in Hawaii.

[Julia Betavale]

And Gregory, the dad says, like, she was super manipulative with money, so she was always pushing Eric to make the money and make more and more. And his own dad says, it seems to me that Eric was the cash cow.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's now isolating Eric from his.

[Julia Betavale]

Family, which she's slowly Been doing the whole time. That's the whispering and this. It's all control. Listening in on phone.

[Patrick Hines]

Know how to instinctively do that.

[Julia Betavale]

They all. It's like they have a playbook. Yeah, we say that. It feels so repetitive because we say the same shit all the time. But it's always the same. It's always the same thing. The isolation, the control.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's not like she has any friends that they're like, hey, you want to really fuck this guy's life up? Here's how you do it. They just. They're born with it.

[Julia Betavale]

Her mother born. Yeah, her mother. Like, that's the other thing. She's in this echo chamber of, like, hate and misery and psychosis.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. That sounds like a wonderful. That sounds great. I mean, I know.

[Julia Betavale]

Choosing to be miserable. So, like, again, right on cue, she isolates Eric from his friends and family. But now she's, like, more direct about it. So she's not just, like, whispering.

[Patrick Hines]

She's directly saying, I don't want you hanging out with your mom, your grandma, or that guy Ryan, that piece of shit.

[Julia Betavale]

And now BFF Ryan is like, I know exactly what's going on here. She is jealous of everyone else. And he says. And I. I, like, stood up and did the slow clap because BFF Ryan goes. She was doing the whole divide and conquer thing with. And that's exactly what she was doing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but it's also, like, you can't tell him. No. Like, Eric's not going to listen.

[Julia Betavale]

He might never talk to you again. That's a very real risk that.

[Patrick Hines]

I was just telling you a story about a dear, dear friend who walked out of my life after his boyfriend was thrown in prison. And we're like, he's not the guy for you. And that's it. And then he walked out of my life.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's.

[Julia Betavale]

It's so sad and lonely to be that person, because that person you spoke to knew you were right.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And that's why they couldn't talk to you anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's so awful. If you're listening, call me. I'm right here.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. No one cares anymore. Nobody cares like we care about you. But it's fine once you're out of it, that we say this all the time. Call your friends.

[Patrick Hines]

My number has been the same since 1999. Call me.

[Julia Betavale]

It's great. I told you a story where I had a very good friend of mine and her boyfriend, like, sleazily hit on me. And I told her, and she never spoke to me again.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, it's because you did the right thing. Telling her was the right thing to do.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, he called me. I hung up on him.

[Patrick Hines]

What did he say?

[Julia Betavale]

He was just like, don't tell, you know, redacted and blah, blah, blah. He was a super fucking creep, and I never liked him. And part of me was like, ooh, I have something. Now I can say this thing. This is something I can say. Cause I didn't like him. No one did. None of her friends did. And then I said, it was hard for me. It wasn't easy. I took no pleasure in it.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course not.

[Julia Betavale]

It's a horrifying conversation for me to have. But it didn't last very long because she was not hearing it and then never spoke to me again. It sucked.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Betavale]

The whole thing sucked.

[Patrick Hines]

Is she welcome to call you?

[Julia Betavale]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, great. Of course. Across the board.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

But this is a very real worry that I'm sure Eric's friends are having. So a few months after they get married, Rosa gets pregnant, and I'm like.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, but wait. Eric says this, like, crazy thing.

[Eric Hill]

I was really excited to become a father. We talked about having, like, a traditional Catholic family. Husband, pregnant wife, six kids. This is one of the things I was looking forward to.

[Patrick Hines]

Six kids?

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

No, six kids.

[Julia Betavale]

Not for me.

[Patrick Hines]

Holy moly.

[Julia Betavale]

None of it's for me.

[Patrick Hines]

No. I cannot imagine you.

[Julia Betavale]

I'll go play the Xbox with Eric. I'm with Rya.

[Patrick Hines]

100%.

[Julia Betavale]

Travel down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

Back again, girl. Gab is back. Look, this is all about getting the kids the age appropriate phone, right?

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. So they are doing something that no one else is doing. Their approach is called tech insteps.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

So tech and steps works by providing a kid safe phone and watch for every agent stage. Basically, like the right device at the right time.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And so Daisy has one of these. What does it look like for families? First of all, gab devices have no social media or Internet apps. And like, anything that goes on the phone has to be approved by an adult.

[Julia Betavale]

Right. So for younger kids, they have a watch with GPS tracking and safe zones. For tweens, they have a starter phone with more features like monitored messaging and video calling.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The feature that we love the most is that nobody can call Daisy, who isn't a contact in her phone, and we have to put the contact in.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That's like, the best part about it.

[Julia Betavale]

For me and I. For teenagers. I know it's harder for teenagers, but they have an advanced phone with features like parent managed apps and a premium camera. I mean, it's dangerous out there.

[Patrick Hines]

The whole idea is that there was a time when, like, adult cell phone was only option for everybody.

[Julia Betavale]

And then it's like, hack it for kids. This is the phone for kids.

[Patrick Hines]

This is the phone for kids. And we love it. I gotta tell you, Daisy is not interested in her phone. It is working so well, right?

[Julia Betavale]

It's not. It's like demystifying. It sort of like, here's a phone. It's kind of boring. This is what you have.

[Patrick Hines]

She lost it for a week. We had to go find it. Like, she doesn't care. It's. And that's. That is a good thing. That is what you want.

[Julia Betavale]

And when they have it on you, like, oh, wow. GPS tracking, like you can. It's like a bunch of safety things too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep. So, fam. Protecting our kids has never been easier.

[Julia Betavale]

Easier for the best. Deal. Sign up at Gab today. No contract [e-mail] TCO that's Gab.

[Patrick Hines]

G A B B.com TCO Gab.com TCO Terms and conditions apply. Obviously.

[Julia Betavale]

Obviously. I mean, come on. So June 21, 2006, they're married for one year. Eric's daughter is born. He is thrilled and scared. All the new parent feelings, it's all.

[Patrick Hines]

That stuff of, like, he's afraid to hold the daughter because she's so tiny and fragile.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, so in love. He's so happy. Like, to him, his dreams are coming true more and more now. He has this beautiful daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

Weird thing about kids. It's really hard to break them. You know, they fall off all the time. They're always putting stuff in their mouths. They're really hard to break.

[Julia Betavale]

They're like chaos goblins, for sure.

[Patrick Hines]

Really are.

[Julia Betavale]

There's a point where it's just like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. There was a minute where Steve and I talked about having a second one, and I'm glad that we didn't, but I'm kind of like. And I only say this because I know all Daisy talks about is wanting to have kids. So I'm not putting, like a want on this for her. I am, like, really excited for what she has.

[Julia Betavale]

Kids. Really?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I, like, can't wait to be a grandpa.

[Julia Betavale]

What if she doesn't?

[Patrick Hines]

Then fine. Totally fine. But she. She talks about wanting kids all the time. So if something changes, then fine, then whatever. I'm sure I'll have plenty of friends whose kids have kids or whatever. But, like, I'm kind of excited to have that energy back in my life in a way of like, come stay with grandpa for the weekend and then go home.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. You know, and like, years and years.

[Patrick Hines]

From now, if that's what Steve says, he's like, that cannot be anytime soon.

[Julia Betavale]

So Eric is working two jobs, Rosa is working zero jobs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I mean, this is his schedule is as a person who, if I'm not in bed by 8:15, I start to panic. I know this is Eric's.

[Eric Hill]

I was working during the day at my job with Alameda County Social services from like 8:30 to 5, but from 11:30pm to 8am I would be working at the pharmacy. And then I would also work there on the weekends. So I was getting very, very little sleep.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, and also on the weekends.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And on the weekend in between, he's not sleeping. He's going home and making dinner and being with his wife and kid and then going to. He's like, maybe getting two hours of sleep a night.

[Julia Betavale]

So he'd get off work at 5p, sleep for a few hours, maybe sleep for a few hours, then go to work from 11:30pm through 5pm the next day.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, exactly.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, that's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

He goes right from the pharmacy back to the social services job because Rosa doesn't want to get a job that's.

[Julia Betavale]

Like 17 and a half hours of straight work.

[Patrick Hines]

And then on the, like, no time off on the weekends.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. Plus weekends. Plus you have a miserable partner making your life hell, plus you can't be with your kid.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And, like, even if she wanted to make the marriage better, which she doesn't, but even if she did, there's no time to do that. No relationship could survive.

[Julia Betavale]

So Eric is living in hell, basically, and he's doing everything Rosa wants, but she's still finding things to get mad about because with people like this, it's never enough. Like, she's never going to be happy.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

So now she starts threatening divorce. And Eric says, which is weird because she's a devout Catholic and they're not supposed to divorce, but. And like, I don't subscribe to that. If you're in a shitty marriage and you need to get out, get out. I don't care what your religion's.

[Patrick Hines]

That's of like. That's.

[Julia Betavale]

Of course I don't care what religion it is.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

If you need to get out of a situation, you get out of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Get out of it.

[Julia Betavale]

Don't hold back because of your religion.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely.

[Julia Betavale]

Give me a break.

[Patrick Hines]

But the dad, Gregory, is like, she was playing with him, she was saying, do what I say or I'm leaving. And it's like, what more can he possibly do?

[Julia Betavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

He's working 17 hours a day, which is the point.

[Julia Betavale]

It's all manipulation, right? It's all manipulation, but it's also like.

[Patrick Hines]

Rosa, then why don't you just fudgeing leave, girl. You know what I mean?

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You get what you want. He's never around. He's making all the money. You're with the kid in your family all the time. Why do you need him? He's like. He's basically just the. He's. He's the ATM for you.

[Julia Betavale]

The thing is, he'd get a third job if you asked him to.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Betavale]

He would do anything you want. He said, like, he'd follow her into an active volcano.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So what is your problem? She's just a miserable person.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

And evil.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So soon after their daughter is born, Rosa, quote, takes off. She basically moves in with her parents.

[Eric Hill]

It was getting lonely and it was hard not being able to spend much time with my daughter. I was starting to suffer mental health issues. I was suffering heavy depression. I had to, you know, go on medication for that. And it was a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

This just made me so sad for him because he's working 17 hours a day. He comes home to spend one hour with his daughter. She's not there, there.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. So now Eric is working constantly. He's never seeing his kid. He's lonely. His wife is brow beating him. He's in a very bad place. He's on medication for depression. And I'm just screaming, call Ryan. Call your dad. No, they will tell you you're not crazy. They will answer the phone. They are praying for this phone call.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's like, you know, he just wants a relationship to work. And she, like, he just doesn't see that. She just doesn't. It was never going to work. It's never going to work with her.

[Julia Betavale]

It's never going to work.

[Patrick Hines]

And it just makes me sad for the kid. It makes me sad for him not ever seeing his kid.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, it's miserable. And for what? Yeah, for what? So By March of 2007, Eric and Rosa separate. And he's like, well, no, I didn't make that decision. She just walked out. She left him.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Like, and he makes that. He laughs when he says that. He's like, I never agreed to separate. She just left me. Right.

[Julia Betavale]

He's the catch. Doing everything for his family, everything that Rosa wants, and she leaves him.

[Patrick Hines]

And the way that she's manipulated the situation. She's got complete control of all the assets, the house, the kid, all the bank accounts, all the money that he's putting into the bank accounts, he has no access to.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. So he's working 18 hours a day. She controls everything else. And then when she leaves, he has nowhere to go.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So Eric goes to his grandmother's house. Sally, who he loves. And Sally loves him.

[Patrick Hines]

And the thing about this is that, like, remember, he's been isolated from his family. He basically cut them all off over a year ago. His dad's like. He showed up in the middle of the night out of nowhere, and everyone's.

[Julia Betavale]

Relieved and thrilled to see him.

[Patrick Hines]

The grandmother was like, get in here.

[Julia Betavale]

And let that be a lesson to all of us.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Call your friends and family. They are waiting for you. Even if you cut them off, they're waiting for you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

If you have gotten yourself out of a situation, thank God. And you need to go to them. Go to them.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to them.

[Julia Betavale]

We'll answer the phone.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

If she called me right now, that friend of mine, I would answer it in a heartbeat.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. If my friend that I haven't Talked to in 10 years called me, I'd be like, girl, I gotta go. I gotta take this call.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, of course. You know, like, we are there for you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, hello.

[Julia Betavale]

So Lester is the grandmother's boyfriend. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, we love Lester.

[Julia Betavale]

Cutest thing ever. So Lester loved Sally, the grandmother. Sally, the grandmother loved Lester.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a minor detail that they throw in at some point. We should say they've been together for 11 years by this point.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. And they spent. They have, like, their little routines, and Lester is, like, the best. So they spent most of the week together. And when they were apart, she always.

[Eric Hill]

Scheduled so that they could talk on the phone. You could almost set your clock by the time they would call each other, because that's how regimented she was.

[Patrick Hines]

They had Happy hour at 4 o'clock whenever they weren't together.

[Julia Betavale]

We'll get to that. It's the best.

[Patrick Hines]

You and me when we're in our 80s. I want that packed right now. 4:00pm Happy hour, girl.

[Julia Betavale]

Because Eric says you could set your clock to the time they call each other. This was very important. Sudden, this 4:00 phone call. And like, this will become important to the case too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, but it wasn't a 4 o'clock chamomile tea time. It was 4 o'clock happy hour. They're having cocktails.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm obsessed Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, I. I love, like, I just love the idea of happy hour and cocktail hour. Like, sometimes if I. When we're, like, with my parents over Christmas or we're there for the weekend, like, it's not an uncommon thing for one or both of my parents to come down and go, what time is it? Is it happy hour? Like, what are we.

[Patrick Hines]

I wish I grew up with a parent that drank. My mom's been in recovery, which doesn't mind me saying she's been recovering for 45 years or something.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, I have one memory of my mom having, like, a bottle of Jack Daniels on the counter when I was maybe in third grade.

[Julia Betavale]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

And then mom went right into recovery, and I wish my parents drank. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Daisy is not gonna be for lack of memory, so.

[Julia Betavale]

And it's not like. It's not like that's code for let's get hammered. But is it, like, social hour?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, course.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, my dad's going to stop his work. I'll stop my. You know, it's like, oh, God, that's the best. Like, we're all adults here having snacks. Or sometimes I'll come downstairs, and my dad's just, like, making his, like, amazing guacamole, and he's like, hey, I just thought maybe we'd, like, have, like, snacks and, like, you down? I'm like, am I down?

[Patrick Hines]

Am I down? Am I down?

[Julia Betavale]

Till, like, always.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, he makes the best guac.

[Julia Betavale]

So June 2007, three months after this separation, whatever you want to call it.

[Eric Hill]

At this point, Rosa was letting me see our daughter at all. I asked her if I could come up and visit on her first birthday. Rosa just flat out refused.

[Patrick Hines]

He wants to go see her for her first birthday. Rosa says, absolutely not. Like, she's a fake. That's crazy.

[Julia Betavale]

Miserable cow. Sorry, cows. I'm sorry. I love cows. You're very sweet.

[Patrick Hines]

She's. I've never heard you use that expression before.

[Julia Betavale]

A miserable pothole. I think we said that's what.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what Sofia Petrillo would say.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes, exactly. And it's just, like, again, power and manipulation and control and whatever. Yeah. Eric is like, fudge this. I'm suing for custody.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm so glad that he finally got there.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? Because I'm like, you can't. Like, she has no right to do this to you.

[Julia Betavale]

But of course it gets ugly. Yeah, obviously. So Rosa emails, like, immediately. She goes to 100.

[Patrick Hines]

This is psychotic.

[Julia Betavale]

She Emails Eric's this is one of the many psychotic. Like this is where the psychosis you really see it because she just is not hiding. There's no mask anymore. Like, this is full on insanity. She emails Eric's job saying he's crazy, he's off his medication and he's going to quote, shoot the place place up.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean she should go to prison for that. Because Eric is saying right now, I've never owned a gun and I've never violated the medication protocol my doctors put me on. Like that is just a lie. And he gets taken off his job while they investigate this. This is like an unpaid forced leave while they invest.

[Julia Betavale]

And like how hateful and mean do you have to be?

[Patrick Hines]

Or just insane.

[Julia Betavale]

This is how you know you're dealing with a crazy person because. And someone who only wants chaos because it's dangerous because you can't reason with them. So she's just throwing everything the worst things at the wall. And this is not the worst thing she does.

[Patrick Hines]

No, but I just think that when this is investigated and it's found out that this is not true be consequences you should not be able to get away with that she ruined. If she did nothing else, this could be a life ruin.

[Julia Betavale]

I agree completely. Because it doesn't really matter what the truth is because it's out there now. So like the damage has been done.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally.

[Julia Betavale]

Eventually it gets to a point where the truth doesn't matter.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

And that is infuriating.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's what she wants. She wants so much chaos that one agency is investigating here and another agency is investigating there. And he's just under so much suspicion and he's kind of an introverted guy. It's not like he can just get out there and be like this isn't real, this isn't true.

[Julia Betavale]

But also now he has lawyers fees and he has all of these other fees and he's not working as much because of this. So it's like a life ruin or tenfold because of how it's affecting everything in his life.

[Patrick Hines]

It is kind of amazing because it all does eventually backfire on her. Like in this instance when he's clear to go back to work, a judge now gives him 50% custody, right?

[Julia Betavale]

Which I up from zero custody, which.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know how custody laws work. Like, does she have full custody just because she's the one who took the kid?

[Julia Betavale]

And it's like, so she's just lying to the court, right? Like, and when it comes out that like, oh, there's no Evidence that he was ever going to do something violent job. Like, why are there no consequences for her?

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I'm saying. Like, and if for no other reason than to stop other people from doing.

[Julia Betavale]

This, you know, And Eric says, like, I'm finally getting to see my daughter. But he missed a lot of big moments. He's still upset. Like again, damage has been done.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

And now like the last time he saw her, he says she was a little baby and now she's a toddler. And he missed all of that.

[Patrick Hines]

I know what? And like, just because she said so.

[Julia Betavale]

Just because she said so. Now because this tactic didn't work, she pivots. And a few months later, Rosa has a new allegation. And now she's accusing Eric of sexually abusing their daughter, which again is a life ruining accusation.

[Patrick Hines]

And what no one is mentioning here is that this is traumatizing for the child. Because when an accusation like this is made, there is an examination of the child and there is questioning of the child.

[Julia Betavale]

I was going to say it later. I'll say now, Rosa doesn't give a shit about that kid.

[Patrick Hines]

No, absolutely.

[Julia Betavale]

She's ruining her life.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. This is traumatizing to the child beyond what it's doing to Eric.

[Julia Betavale]

And it's also a lie. To be clear. This is a complete, complete lie. Because Case Casey bates from the DA's office or whatever is here and he's like, we investigated this thing into the ground. There's no evidence of anything. She totally lied.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And this is when it occurs to Eric and I didn't get this until the second time I watched it.

[Eric Hill]

I think May wanted to have grandkids and I think she probably pushed Rosa into the relationship with me. I think, you know, because May knew me from work and I think May liked me. But Rosa, Rosa just wanted me gone.

[Patrick Hines]

Rosa never wanted this. Went along with it because her mom's a bully.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And is now like trying to bully her own way out of this.

[Julia Betavale]

And the cycle of abuse is just continuing.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Betavale]

That's where we are.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Truly the people behind this are so passionate about it. They love it so much. It's like they're seeing people getting these photo booths and like making a real living out of it.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. You can do this as a side hustle or you can do it as a full time business. And I'm just saying summer's the busiest season.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

Oh my God. With a photo booth. That's so fun. But because of this, Rose's custody starts to decrease.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

Now, I know you might want to celebrate, but don't. Because she is angry and she has nothing to lose and that's a very dangerous combination. So don't, don't celebrate.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And I think that the system should know this is a dangerous person. Anybody who's going to make these false allegations should not. Yeah. Should not just be in custody. They should be monitoring her. She is a not well scary person.

[Julia Betavale]

And it's starting to happen. And Rose is making it worse across the board. So they have like a court mediator. She's constantly picking fights. She doesn't have a conversation with this person. That's not a fight. That's not getting reported about.

[Patrick Hines]

And what that tells you about Rosa in this instance is that that person, that social worker, is the one making the report to the judge. She doesn't even care. She knows this person is reporting back to the judge.

[Julia Betavale]

This woman, she just wants to watch it all burn. Exactly. That's what, that's what she's in it for. She doesn't give a shit about her daughter. Her daugh daughter is a pawn.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

In this fucked up psychotic game.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh God.

[Julia Betavale]

She doesn't care. And, but the thing is, it's all backfiring.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So she wants the chaos. She wants to watch it all burn. And then everyone's like, okay, we're reducing your custody. We're taking this away from you. It's all backfiring on her. And so over time, it goes from 50, 50 custody to 70, 30 and eventually 85% physical custody for Eric, but 100% legal custody.

[Patrick Hines]

But what ends up happening here is that May, the mom, she now gets what she wants because she's the grandmother. Remember she was the co worker of Eric and they're still on good terms. And so now suddenly May is the one that Eric is turning to, probably letting her like watch the kid all the time because he and Rosa are not speaking at all. She's the go between right now. She's got all the access to the.

[Julia Betavale]

Kid and May has made it that, like, she's the Reasonable one. Rosa is crazy and unreasonable. May is sort of is like solace for Eric in this situation. And it's all bullshit, it's all fake.

[Patrick Hines]

It scares me for him because he's being lulled into this false sense of like I can trust this woman right now.

[Julia Betavale]

January 7, 2009, 4:00. Ring ring. Lester calls the grandmother to have their cockt over the phone. Over the phone. It's so cute. I love this.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Julia Betavale]

Like 4 o'clock phone dates.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so cute. You know they drink like old fashions.

[Julia Betavale]

It's so cute, you know, it's so cute.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so cute.

[Julia Betavale]

So. But it's 4:00. Remember you could set your clock to it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

4:00.

[Patrick Hines]

Sally doesn't answer and we hear his voicemails. Called again. Hi Sally, where are you?

[Julia Betavale]

4:15.

[Patrick Hines]

Each time he called he sounded more distressed. Keep quiet.

[Julia Betavale]

Trying to call you.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't hear in his voice. His concern became more and more heightened. Kelly, where are you?

[Julia Betavale]

Lester's calling over and over again. It's 4:05. It's 4:15. And it's so sad because he's so stressed out on the clock.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. It's getting worse and worse and worse.

[Julia Betavale]

He's really worried and eventually it's five. Like this is not good. And he's in panic mode. And he should be because we know their schedule. They are in constant contact.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

5:00, he's going to 100 and that's where he should be.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So he sends his son and daughter in law over to do a welfare check. Now they go and they knock on the door and no one comes to the door. And just then Eric pulls up. Remember he lives, he's living there.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he has not met Lester's son Jeff and his wife uda but they're all meeting for the first time now they all go into the house through the garage door. Jeff and UDA stay downstairs. Eric and his daughter go upstairs.

[Julia Betavale]

Eric has his daughter with him. Yes, yes, that's important.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Jeff doesn't see the grandmother anywhere.

[Julia Betavale]

But you know who is in the house?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

May Rose's mother.

[Patrick Hines]

May appears like a fucking horror movie behind Eric.

[Julia Betavale]

She just like material. It's like one of those jump scares with the violin.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

You're like oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And there's no reason in the world for her to be there.

[Julia Betavale]

No reason. And, and she's like, oh hi. This is all totally normal.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine you're at your house looking for your grandmother and your random co worker, like, walks out of the bathroom of.

[Julia Betavale]

Your psychotic wife who has two false life ruining allegations against you.

[Patrick Hines]

None of them have ever been in this house before. And now she's just there and in the upstairs bedroom.

[Julia Betavale]

And so she's like, hey, oh my God. This is super normal and totally fine.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't worry about it.

[Julia Betavale]

Your grandmother called me, Sally called me. It's all good. She's downstairs at the gar. Why doesn't everyone just leave?

[Patrick Hines]

Let's all do. Let's all do happy hour with her.

[Julia Betavale]

Stop talking about it and everyone leaves and just trust me and believe me and everything's fine and we'll never talk about this again.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like, that doesn't make any sense. Let me leave my daughter with you while I go and check. I am screaming. This is now a fudgeing horror movie.

[Julia Betavale]

So just then, Rosa jumps out from the baby's room wearing a black trench coat.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Rose is the crazy psychotic ex.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

In the house with her mother, hiding.

[Julia Betavale]

Creeping around, hiding in a black trench coat. And she jumps out, out of the baby's room and shoots Eric with a taser gun. Like he tases him.

[Patrick Hines]

This is like an action film all of a sudden.

[Julia Betavale]

And then it gets worse. Everything you're about to hear is worse than the thing we just said.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Eric Hill]

Rosa was kicking me and May was hitting me with the baton. And I kind of got it together enough to start to fight back. There was two of them. So, like, I could kick one away, but then the other was hitting me. And then when I could push the other one away, then the first on his back and attacking me again.

[Julia Betavale]

It's three people in a fucking melee upstairs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

I don't. The daughter's probably screaming at the top, wherever she is. So they go, they get a neighbor to call 911.

[Patrick Hines]

We hear the 911 call.

[Julia Betavale]

So Rosa is kicking him. They are beating Eric. Where is the daughter? And where is Sally, the grandmother?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

No eyes on anybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Forgot. I was so concerned about the daughter. I forgot that we were here to find the grandmother. I know.

[Julia Betavale]

So Eric is fighting back the best he can. He pushes one of that like he would push one away and then another.

[Patrick Hines]

He's been tased, you know. Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So he's doing his best. And at one point, one of them drops the baton. He grabs it and just starts swinging. So he's fighting back. Rosa and May overpower Eric. They get the baton back. Now they have it over his throat. They're trying to Choke him to death.

[Patrick Hines]

And Rosa comes out of the bedroom with a gun because May is on top of him with the baton, trying to choke him. And then Rosa comes out with the gun, pointing it at him. And he stops fighting.

[Julia Betavale]

And she puts the gun on his chest.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

And again, like, why are you doing this?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, do you really think you're going to get away with this? I know, because May says to Eric, are you going to give up custody of your daughter or. And that's when Rosa caught the gun. Now, in this moment, Eric, like, any one of us would agrees to custody. You say whatever you have to say to get out of that situation. You deal with the rest later. There's no way they're getting custody after all this. Just say yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's like feeling guilty even now, saying that he was, like, willing to, quote, give up custody. I know you weren't. I know you weren't.

[Julia Betavale]

You were saying that was survival. You were in fight or flight. You said what you had to say to get them to survive the moment away. And you'll deal with the custody thing in a second. I totally get it. So their daughter, we learn finally.

[Eric Hill]

My daughter, she was locked in a door, dark bathroom. And I could hear her screaming, you know, daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

[Patrick Hines]

I couldn't do anything for her. I just didn't want to die. Eric is saying to us, he's sobbing, saying he could hear her pounding on the door, screaming, daddy, Daddy.

[Julia Betavale]

Screaming for him. Yeah, screaming for him. His grandmother, where is she? He, this guy, he's just been brutally attacked by his soon to be ex wife.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, he's got a gun on him. He doesn't know what she's gonna do.

[Julia Betavale]

No, she. These people, that's the thing you have, they have nothing to lose. They're trying to kill him. Like, this is a terrifying moment.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

5:58. Eric finally starts to hear the sirens. Come, help is coming.

[Patrick Hines]

But this isn't necessarily a good thing because Rose has still got the gun on him. And now she knows the cops are coming.

[Julia Betavale]

Is this.

[Patrick Hines]

Like he doesn't know what's going to happen?

[Julia Betavale]

She could kill him. She has nothing to lose. Like, she doesn't give a shit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Now Jared is the cop at the scene.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. This poor fucking guy.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, he's like, what is going on?

[Patrick Hines]

I.

[Julia Betavale]

Because he gets there.

[Patrick Hines]

Nonsense. Malice at the Palace.

[Julia Betavale]

He goes, I don't know who's my victim and who's my suspect.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Betavale]

Everyone is beat within an inch of their lives. The baby's in the in the bathroom. I'm looking for a grandmother. She's not here.

[Patrick Hines]

He sees that she like, he gets in the house, goes up the stairs, sees these two women. One of them has a gun. Eric's on the ground. Normally you would think the man. And also May is in the hallway with her face all everywhere.

[Julia Betavale]

There's blood everywhere. Like you walk into the scene, you can't make sense of it.

[Patrick Hines]

And of course you're going to assume that the man is the aggressor. Of course you are.

[Julia Betavale]

And the cops, now here's what happens. The cops tell everyone to stay where they are so they can like assess the situation and do what they need to do. Eric doesn't listen to this.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I'm on Eric's side because Rosa still has the gun. And so Eric is saying.

[Julia Betavale]

And he doesn't know where she is.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And he's like, they were yelling at.

[Eric Hill]

Me not to move, but I also knew that Rosa was pointing a gun. So I kept moving where I knew at least Rosa couldn't hit me from where she was. I just was like, get away, get away, get away.

[Patrick Hines]

She still got the gun. If she wants to kill me, it's going to happen. Now the cop is not going to stop.

[Julia Betavale]

And just to be clear, to paint this picture, it's Eric who's been beaten.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

May, the mother and the cop. Rosa is not here.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

Eric knows that Rosa is in the house with a gun and unhinged. The cop doesn't know that.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

So for Eric to hear, stay where you are. Eric's like, absolutely not. My daughter and my grandmother in this house, this woman has a gun. Like, he runs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so the cop tases him. He gets tased a second time and he goes, this one was really powerful.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean like this is a cop taser.

[Julia Betavale]

And the cop goes, well, that way we could control the scene. And like, oh my God, I know. Eric is screaming. My two year old daughter. Like he's screaming about everything.

[Patrick Hines]

She's Twice in the last 10 minutes.

[Julia Betavale]

The cops go, and he's like, please get my fucking daughter. She's screaming in the bathroom. She's traumatized. Please.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, at least he can still speak.

[Julia Betavale]

Right? You know, the cop goes upstairs to go to the bathroom to rescue the daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

As he's walking, he notices in a room, he sees a mirror.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

And in the reflection, like a ghost, like a horror movie, he sees Rose's reflection and he sees that she's hiding in one of the bedrooms.

[Patrick Hines]

Like this is utterly insane.

[Julia Betavale]

So the cops handcuff everyone.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

They've had it. They're like, we got to handcuff everybody. And they put them all in different cars.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, are they going to run out of hand? How much. How many handcuffs does each guy have?

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, like crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, they.

[Julia Betavale]

This is the sad. This is so sad. Because they put them all in different cars. And Eric describes watching the CPS worker take his daughter from the house and, like, hand her over. And he's just like, how did this happen?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But this is when he's like, where's my grandmother and Sally? In this moment that I was like, oh, my God. Like, Sally, you know, because they're saying she can't leave on her own. Like, she. If she left, she needed to have left with help. There was no help for her.

[Julia Betavale]

And she missed.

[Patrick Hines]

Where is she?

[Julia Betavale]

And not making a joke. It sounds funny, but, like, she missed her 4 o'clock happy hour call. They don't. Her and Lester are in constant contact. This is a major red flag now. Yesenia, thank God. There's a woman here. She's been on the force for three years. At the time of the incident. She's awesome, but she's the one who's listening to Eric, hears about Sally, and she's like, wait a second.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, someone's missing.

[Julia Betavale]

We got. Wait, we got he. Because he's like, they did something to her. They attacked me. They threw my daughter in the bathroom and locked the door. My grandmother's missing. And Yesenia's like, we should be listening to him and looking for the grandmother.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

Hello. Thank you, Yesenia.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So they go back in and search for Sally. Where is she? Meanwhile, they're also searching May and Rosa to see, like, what they have on them.

[Patrick Hines]

And they found a revolver in one of Rosa's pockets, which led us more.

[Eric Hill]

To believe that maybe these are our suspects. As opposed to Eric.

[Patrick Hines]

Eric lived at that residence, so he.

[Eric Hill]

Had a reason to be there. Rosa and May had no reason to be there. They did not live there whatsoever.

[Julia Betavale]

Because also, Eric lived there. He had every right to be there. They didn't.

[Patrick Hines]

I cannot imagine what is going through Eric's mind to explain my grandmother's missing. My daughter here. I know I'm the man, but they're the one trying to kill me.

[Julia Betavale]

And this is my house. I'm allowed to be here. They are not. And they also hate me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

And they hate my family. And they're miserable. Travel down the road Back again.

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Look, they sent us one, right? So I use it all the time. There are times I've done like a 45 minute workout. There are times I've done like a 10 minute workout. I like to go running and I like to go to the gym, but I put it in the rotation and I do it like once or twice a week. I'm obsessed.

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Get off the treadmill. So they drag Rosa downtown for an interview. It's January 8th, it's now 12:56 in.

[Julia Betavale]

The morning and they're arrested on suspicion of a felony. So they know, like something's here now because Yesenia is like something more sinister is going on here. This is not like, this is not like a domestic dispute. Like there's more. It is, but there's more.

[Patrick Hines]

She's got a revolver in her pocket.

[Julia Betavale]

Come on.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So we see Rose's police interview and she's telling the cops they are at Sally's house because of this ongo custody dispute.

[Julia Betavale]

So she goes to the house, no one answered the door. So she lets Herself into a house that isn't hers.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And then still never saw the grandmother. Never to this day, never saw the ground.

[Patrick Hines]

And they say that when Eric arrived, he went berserk. She says, he threw me to the floor. He had a gun in his hand. At some point, he must have dropped the gun. So I picked it up and put it in my pocket. I was like, at least you're thinking on your feet, Rosa.

[Julia Betavale]

They like, you know, she describes it as, I wanted to talk to Eric. I went to the house, let myself in. No one was home. So we sat nicely with our arms folded in silence, waited for Eric to come back. And when he came home, he went crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

But they're also talking about how, like, remarkably composed she has. Both her and May are, like, calm as fuck. Which, like, does or could lend an air of credibility to what they're saying. Nobody believes that.

[Julia Betavale]

Nobody believes that because she's being really deceptive. She's not really answering the questions or she talk around it. Like, if you really hear what she's saying, she's not saying anything.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And, like, May had been taken to the hospital, and she really was beaten. Like, when he grabbed up a carnage. I know, I mean, good. But he must have gotten a few good swings in.

[Julia Betavale]

He was protecting himself, his daughter, his grandmother. These people are out to kill him.

[Patrick Hines]

I cannot imagine the agony of hearing my daughter locked in the bathroom, banging on the.

[Julia Betavale]

Dreaming for help, screaming for help, not knowing where. There's two of them, two psychopaths trying to violently kill you. And you don't know where one of them is. And all you hear is your daughter screaming. And you hear nothing from the grandmother, because where is she?

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Oh, God.

[Julia Betavale]

We find the grandmother.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

As they're talking to them downtown or whatever, Eric's grandmother has been found. Sally Salma. But she goes by Sally.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

They go into the backyard, and there's a shed that has a lock on it. And they're like, uh, oh.

[Patrick Hines]

We further investigated into that shed, and we saw a garbage can through a.

[Eric Hill]

Crack in the door.

[Patrick Hines]

And in that garbage can, we could see some.

[Eric Hill]

Some bed sheets, which seemed kind of strange to us to have bed sheets.

[Patrick Hines]

In a garbage can in an exterior shed.

[Eric Hill]

We were able to get some bolt.

[Patrick Hines]

Cutters and open that shed.

[Eric Hill]

And before doing anything, we saw that.

[Patrick Hines]

From those bed sheets, we could see.

[Eric Hill]

What looked to be a human foot.

[Julia Betavale]

They see that Sally has been killed and they found her body locked in the shed.

[Patrick Hines]

They found her, like, wrapped in a bed sheet, stuffed in a trash can.

[Julia Betavale]

Head first into a garbage can. Like, how evil these people are evil. Because what happens is they wanted to get the daughter away from Eric. Like, it's just growing and growing in their evilness.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just. How did you ever think you were going to. I mean, we. Eventually we'll hear what. What the cops think their plan was and. But it. Like, how did you.

[Julia Betavale]

They wrote it down.

[Patrick Hines]

They wrote, we're back again.

[Julia Betavale]

We just said this last week.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know, I know. Stay fucking stupid.

[Julia Betavale]

Keep it up. Yeah, but it's just so evil. Like, what is wrong with you to do that? Like, why kill her? Why? Because she was there.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Julia Betavale]

Like, what? What? So you did go there to kill Eric and then the grandmother was just like collateral damage in your ears.

[Patrick Hines]

She's been like a witness or whatever. Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, it's. So the cops know Rosa is. And they press her on seeing Sally, the grandmother, because she's like, okay, you didn't see her inside, fine, but what about outside? What about that?

[Patrick Hines]

Because now they know about the shed, but Rosa doesn't know they know about the shed.

[Julia Betavale]

How are they not going to find out? The shed is. It's not an invisible shed.

[Patrick Hines]

Fudgeing idiot.

[Julia Betavale]

So when they mentioned the shed, Yesenia says she. That Rosa had a physical reaction. Her lip quivered.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Good use of the word quiver. So two days later, the autopsy, he comes back. Sally Hill died by strangulation, which is, again, we know is like a really personal way. Like, they hated Eric and anyone supporting him. I'm sure Sally had some choice words for these two.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally. Well, and they say that she was covered in defensive wounds. She definitely put up a fight. I mean, she was in her 80s. Absolute monsters.

[Julia Betavale]

So they need to prove that Rosa and May did this and not Eric. Which is what Rosa and May are claiming.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And their big evidence is at the scene of this crime. There were two Tasers, there were two stun guns, there were two handguns, two of pretty much everything, which leads me to believe that there were going to be two people that were going to go in and had a plan to carry out this crime. Two people came here, May and Rosa, to do this crime together.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Eric didn't bring two Tasers, two stun guns, and two.

[Julia Betavale]

He didn't have to bring anything anywhere. He lived there.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Betavale]

So they also found a black backpack on the side of the house.

[Patrick Hines]

This is absolutely terrifying.

[Julia Betavale]

They describe it as a burglary, kidnapping. I'm like, this is the stuff of nightmares. Pack brown and green braided rope. Crossbows.

[Patrick Hines]

Crossbows.

[Julia Betavale]

A hunting knife, a throwing star, A glass cutter, a crowbar. This is like, what, Dwight Schrud.

[Patrick Hines]

A throwing star. That's like a real thing? Apparently.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Betavale]

So also, Rose's car was found half a block away.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And more insane things were found, like a samurai sword and, like, leg cuffs and restraints. Like, what were they really planning on doing?

[Patrick Hines]

What were they really planning on doing?

[Julia Betavale]

But there's more. Because their house in Brentwood is described as a jack jackpot.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Betavale]

They find guns, they find ammunition. They find knives.

[Patrick Hines]

They find the tag for the gun found at the scene.

[Julia Betavale]

And handwritten notes.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Betavale]

And just crime in general.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Betavale]

Weirdly enough, crime equals desire, ability, opportunity.

[Patrick Hines]

Rosa.

[Julia Betavale]

Rosa. Also, revenge spells.

[Patrick Hines]

Huh. I know.

[Julia Betavale]

That comes back times three. I'm just saying, don't do it. And a list of people. Eric Hill. Selena Hill. Gregory Hill.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, all of these people written down. I'm like, do we have eyes on these other people? So they write on, like, December 9, 2008, save Bibi, meaning their daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

Baby. Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Cancel the ATM account. Schedule appointment for all this. There. It's a checklist. We just did this.

[Patrick Hines]

We just did this. I know.

[Julia Betavale]

It's a checklist. And then on one of those checklists. Target practice. Oh, disgusting. So they plan this for at least a month.

[Patrick Hines]

At least.

[Julia Betavale]

Eric. Rosa was stalking Eric. She was taking notes, tracking his every move.

[Patrick Hines]

Tracking him to the daycare to see when he's picking up his daughter.

[Julia Betavale]

They're figuring out the best time to do this. Yes, essentially.

[Patrick Hines]

And then how do you live with this plan in your head for a month? It's crazy.

[Julia Betavale]

And then they search the computers.

[Patrick Hines]

One of the main things that stood.

[Julia Betavale]

Out from the forensic search on the.

[Eric Hill]

Computers was a Google search that said, how to murder.

[Patrick Hines]

How to murder.

[Julia Betavale]

How to murder. Keep it up. Stay stupid.

[Patrick Hines]

How's long to die in cold?

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God. Stop.

[Patrick Hines]

So did you see her face? Did you see her face?

[Julia Betavale]

So, also, the best way to kill without being traced.

[Patrick Hines]

Definitely not.

[Julia Betavale]

Don't Google.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't Google.

[Julia Betavale]

Step number one. Even the AI response will say, don't do this.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sorry. It is like when we. When Daisy Speedy Hamster died, and we literally googled how to know if your hamster's dead. And the first response is, if you're googling this, your hamster's.

[Julia Betavale]

Your hamster's dead. Poor little thing. May she rest.

[Patrick Hines]

May she rest.

[Julia Betavale]

But not like, we need anything else. But there's DNA that proves it too. I mean, obviously these two did it.

[Patrick Hines]

How to murder and get away with it.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, all the best way to kill without being traced. Like, the cops are like, this is the easiest gig we ever had.

[Patrick Hines]

Go ask the cops, they'll tell you. Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So I'll never say no to DNA. We have it everywhere. Like, great, they tried. What's so crazy, these fucking idiots is that they tried so hard to, quote, remain traceless.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God.

[Julia Betavale]

All we have are traces of them everywhere.

[Patrick Hines]

Look, we just did this. It is never going to happen. You are not. You're not smarter than DNA. You're not smarter than the system.

[Julia Betavale]

They called it Operation Custody.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God, you idiots. And they say this was the plan. The plan was. The plan was to kill the grandmother, blame the murder on Eric, frame Eric for murder, for the murder of his grandmother. Their plan continued that in that moment of despair, Eric Hill would kill himself and there'd be no legal custody for anyone except for Rosa Hill. It would have been proven that she was right all along, that Eric was a molester, that she didn't pull a fraud on the court, and that she was rightfully reunited with her child. So make it look like he put her in the garbage can and in that moment was overcome with grief and then killed himself.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So like in the house, he was minutes from them forcing him to write some kind of letter that he probably would have done, then taking him out to the shed where they would have killed him.

[Julia Betavale]

But they stupidly just said, okay, like I'm gonna point the gun at him and force him to agree to full custody.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And then be done with it if he said no to that. Yeah, they would probably do that.

[Patrick Hines]

But you know what is crazy? If, if Lester's son and daughter in law hadn't been there, he probably, probably would be dead. Because the only reason the cops came was because they ran out of the house and went to the neighbor.

[Julia Betavale]

Lester had every right to go to 100.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God, this is just occurring to me. Like if they, like he would be dead.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. So we get the on screen text. On June 28, 2011, Rosa Hill was found guilty of the murder of Selma Sally Hill and the attempted murder of Eric Hill. The attempted. I know, I have the hiccups all of a sudden. Great, great. I'm so worked up. I have the free freaking hiccups.

[Patrick Hines]

She's got the hickeys.

[Julia Betavale]

I got the hicks. Rosa was sentenced to 25 years to life.

[Patrick Hines]

Not Enough. That's not enough time.

[Julia Betavale]

Her mother was convicted of premeditated attempted murder and is also serving a life sentence. Like, like, it's just so awful. They murdered a 91 year old. Life of the party. Everyone loved, who loved life.

[Patrick Hines]

They were never going to get away with it. Can we just. You're never going to get away with it. Never.

[Julia Betavale]

Even that custody thing, like, oh, Eric agreed to full custody in that moment. You dumb girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut up.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, you fucking lose love.

[Patrick Hines]

That Gregory the dad is not ending on forgiveness. Like, this was a long time ago. This was almost 20 years ago that this happened. And he's like, yeah, I'm still mad. Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

They also didn't give a shit about their daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

But he said, he's like, they say you should forgive.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And he goes, well, I think it would be a disservice to humanity to forgive again. Standing up, slow moving. Amazing. In the immortal words of Taylor Allison Swift, you don't have to forgive and you don't have to forget to move on. You can move on without any of those things happening.

[Patrick Hines]

100%.

[Julia Betavale]

So Lester, unfortunately, passed away. Lester, the boyfriend, the fun boyfriend, passed away less than a year after Sally Hill was murdered. He was so devastated. And they. And it ends with like, so, Eric, like, how are you?

[Eric Hill]

And he's like, I'm doing fine. I'm wonderful. I've been a good father. I've had a good family. The irony of all of this is that I have led the life that Rosa and I talked about having, and she missed out on all of it.

[Julia Betavale]

He doesn't have this albatross around his neck, this miserable existence, even without the murder and the attacks. Like, it was just miserable for him to be with this drip of a person.

[Patrick Hines]

He says he's living the life that he and Rosa had initially fantasized about, like, early on in their relationship.

[Julia Betavale]

He says, I'm a single dad. It's not always easy. But his daughter has grown into a wonderful woman. She's a talented artist, and he's just, like, watching her shine.

[Patrick Hines]

I love that the daughter's not a part of this.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, yeah. And in spite of every attempt to have his life ruined, Eric's like, I survived and I'm doing great.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, and my daughter's great. And I have a great relationship with them. And you couldn't keep me down. Rosa and me.

[Patrick Hines]

No. We love you, Eric.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God. And BFF Ryan.

[Patrick Hines]

And BFF Ryan.

[Julia Betavale]

I'm the dad.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, girl. We did worst X ever.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Killing for custody My God. My God, fam, Go check out our YouTube channel. This is our first episode recorded with our new digs in the new students.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. And it's like a work in progress.

[Patrick Hines]

So. Yeah. It's gonna get better and better and better. We're having so much fun. Join us on the Patreon if you. But only if you like fun. Only if you like drag. Bingo.

[Julia Betavale]

May and roses need not apply.

[Patrick Hines]

May and roses need not apply. We don't want you, girl. What are we doing next?

[Julia Betavale]

We are doing Disappeared in the Darkness, an ID mystery. It's on Hulu. It's on Amazon Prime.

[Patrick Hines]

What's it about?

[Julia Betavale]

It's a sad story. I gotta tell you.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, great.

[Julia Betavale]

Sorry to say.

[Patrick Hines]

And yet I'm so used to the comedies we usually cover. I know.

[Julia Betavale]

Can you imagine? Please, One day we should do a fun one.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Well, fam, stay tuned for the trailer for that. And we love you.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, we love you. We'll see you soon.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

All right. Bye.

[Julia Betavale]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

It's one of the most devastating crimes in recent history. This little girl that's been taken from her family before the Christmas holiday. My heart. 20 year old Heather Elvis vanishes without a trace. It was the darkest, most desolate place in Horry County.

[Julia Betavale]

There's a desperation for answers and we don't have them. They were harassing this 20 year old woman and she was absolutely terrified.

[Patrick Hines]

We speak exclusively with Heather's anxious family and friends.

[Julia Betavale]

I'm one of those people who needs facts.

[Patrick Hines]

I wanted proof.

[Julia Betavale]

I wanted to know what happened. There's so many things unfinished in her life. So many things that she doesn't get to do.

[Patrick Hines]

And go inside two of the most.

[Julia Betavale]

Contentious trials of recent times.

[Eric Hill]

This junk science, there's no science to it. It is complete.

[Julia Betavale]

You said, well, Sydney cheated on me in the months of September and October with a psycho whore. Right? It's all a game. Everything's a game.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's not a game.