427: Disappeared in the Darkness

Summary

True Crime Obsessed Podcast Episode 427: "Disappeared in the Darkness"

Overview

In episode 427 of True Crime Obsessed, hosts Julie Betsavale and Patrick Hines delve into the harrowing case of Heather Elvis, a 20-year-old woman who vanished without a trace in Horry County. This detailed summary encapsulates the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn from the podcast, providing a comprehensive understanding for those unfamiliar with the episode.

---

1. Introduction to the Case

Julie and Patrick introduce "Disappeared in the Darkness," a true crime documentary from ID that explores the mysterious disappearance of Heather Elvis in Myrtle Beach.

• Patrick Hines [01:12]: "So this is called Disappeared in the Darkness and ID mystery. This is one of those docs that uses the fake Succession music. We've been here before."

• Julie Betsavale [02:11]: "It's one of the most devastating crimes in recent history. This little girl that's been taken from her family before the Christmas holiday."

---

2. Heather Elvis’s Background and Disappearance

Heather Elvis, a vibrant young woman known for her artistic talents and positive spirit, disappeared just before the Christmas season. Her vanishing stirred a desperate search for answers in the desolate area of Peachtree Landing, a secluded spot in Myrtle Beach.

• Patrick Hines [02:35]: "They were harassing this 20-year-old woman and she was absolutely terrified."

• Julie Betsavale [05:49]: "She was 20. She doesn't live at home. So Heather could have been missing for days and nobody knew."

---

3. Initial Investigation and Key Evidence

The investigation began when Officer Kenneth Canterbury found Heather's green Dodge Intrepid parked oddly at Peachtree Landing. Upon informing Heather’s father, Terry Elvis, they discovered the car had been abandoned for days with no signs of struggle or belongings missing.

• Patrick Hines [04:18]: "The license plate was registered to Terry Elvis. Heather, our victim, is his daughter."

• Julie Betsavale [05:22]: "The car's been there for a couple of days, and it's like somebody just forgot their car. It could be someone who went kayaking and needed help."

Inside the car, a chaotic mess of papers and receipts suggested Heather might have left in a hurry or under duress.

• Patrick Hines [07:01]: "The trunk was so full of stuff you couldn't even put a cheeseburger in there if you tried."

---

4. Introduction of the Suspects: Sydney Scardi and Tammy

Heather was involved with Sydney Scardi, a much older maintenance worker at the Tilted Kilt Pub and Eatery, where she was employed. Sydney’s wife, Tammy, becomes a central figure due to her aggressive and threatening behavior towards Heather upon discovering the affair.

• Julie Betsavale [12:34]: "Heather loved to draw, paint, sing...she was an artist with her whole life ahead of her."

• Patrick Hines [25:27]: "Sydney was out to fix things, trying to keep his affair under wraps, but Tammy found out and began harassing Heather relentlessly."

---

5. Trial Proceedings and Challenges

The trial against Sydney and Tammy was fraught with circumstantial evidence and conflicting testimonies. Key moments included:

• Phone Records and Surveillance: Evidence showed Sydney purchased a pregnancy test and made a late-night call to Heather from a payphone, contradicting his initial alibi of being handcuffed to his bed by Tammy.

  • Patrick Hines [34:47]: "His alibi is he was asleep and handcuffed to the bedpost, but surveillance footage showed him making the call."

• Testimonies: Witnesses, including co-workers and friends, provided insights into Heather's character and her relationship with Sydney, as well as Tammy's vindictive actions.

  • Julie Betsavale [12:04]: "Heather was scared of Tammy finding out about the affair. Her phone was blasting with threatening texts from Tammy."

• Legal Tactics: The defense attempted to shift blame onto Tammy, arguing her excessive reactions and harassment were the true motives behind Heather’s disappearance.

  • Patrick Hines [64:36]: "Sydney's defense team is throwing his wife under the bus. And someone goes, I don't think that's gonna go great at all."

---

6. Convictions and Aftermath

Both Sydney and Tammy were eventually convicted of kidnapping Heather, primarily based on the mounting circumstantial evidence and behavioral patterns exhibited by Tammy.

• Patrick Hines [72:52]: "He gets 30 years and everyone's ending being like, I'm really thrilled they're in prison, but where is Heather?"

Despite their convictions, Heather's body was never found, leaving lingering questions and unresolved grief for her family and community.

• Julie Betsavale [75:26]: "So, news of their conviction is bittersweet because Heather is still missing."

---

7. Reflections and Conclusions

Julie and Patrick reflect on the complexities of the case, highlighting the challenges in securing convictions without concrete evidence such as a body or physical proof of foul play. They emphasize the emotional toll on Heather's family and the pervasive influence of social media in shaping public perception and legal outcomes.

• Julie Betsavale [74:05]: "We're all on the same side here. We want justice for Heather."

• Patrick Hines [75:05]: "It's heartbreaking because she was such a beautiful soul. Everyone loved her."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Patrick Hines [07:01]: "You couldn't even put a cheeseburger in there if you tried."

• Julie Betsavale [12:34]: "Heather loved to draw, paint, sing...she was an artist with her whole life ahead of her."

• Patrick Hines [34:47]: "His alibi is he was asleep and handcuffed to the bedpost, but surveillance footage showed him making the call."

• Patrick Hines [64:36]: "Sydney's defense team is throwing his wife under the bus."

• Julie Betsavale [74:05]: "We're all on the same side here. We want justice for Heather."

---

Conclusion

Episode 427 of True Crime Obsessed offers a gripping exploration of Heather Elvis’s disappearance, unraveling the intricate web of relationships, suspicions, and legal hurdles surrounding her case. Through engaging discussions and critical analysis, Julie and Patrick shed light on the enduring quest for truth and justice in the face of uncertainty and emotional adversity.

For those intrigued by deep dives into true crime stories punctuated with humor, sass, and heartfelt commentary, this episode stands as a testament to the podcast’s unique approach to recounting and dissecting compelling criminal cases.

Transcript

[Julie Betsavale]

I have no need to ever go to Myrtle Beach.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, okay.

[Julie Betsavale]

I just, I'm just putting that out there.

[Patrick Hines]

Get ready. They're going to be mad at you.

[Julie Betsavale]

Hi. Julie Betsavale. Hello.

[Patrick Hines]

Patrick Hines, fam.

[Julie Betsavale]

Just a reminder, we've got a Discord and you're kind of the Discord queen. You wanted to film a little bit.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean the queen who doesn't know how anything works and tagged at everyone in the pasta scene. But yeah, no, it's Discord is very fun. Everyone's really nice. We have all these different channels about like the book club or episode discussion or Patreon discussion or there's one whole channel for like your family and your pets and one whole channel for memes. It's very, very fun and cool.

[Julie Betsavale]

Very, very fun and cool. We've also got a Patreon. I don't know if we've ever talked about that on the episodes before, but we do offer Patreon content.

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Julie Betsavale]

Over there at the $5 level, you get over like 450ad free bonus episodes. Drag. Bingo.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Julie Betsavale]

All the great Patreon content. Then we've got ad free episodes at another tier. We've got some where we send you stuff in the mail. We do after parties where we do.

[Patrick Hines]

AMA at our $20 level. We do episodes just for you. So we just dragged that idiot Lori Val line Jailhouse interview.

[Julie Betsavale]

That's right. We've also got some episodes of like Unsolved Mysteries from back in the day. But that Lori Valo just for the hero belt here.

[Patrick Hines]

Let us know if you like it, girl.

[Julie Betsavale]

What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

So this is called Disappeared in the Darkness and ID mystery. This is one of those docs that uses the fake succession music. We've been here before.

[Julie Betsavale]

You know what? They also use a green screen. So I only know this because I did a couple of those episodes of History's greatest mysteries where I sat in a chair in front of a huge green screen. And then when I saw the episode, they made me look like I was in a warehouse. And I used to think those were real. Like when I would see those on like those ID things, I'm like, why are they putting Ashley Banfield?

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's all fake. It's movie magic.

[Julie Betsavale]

Also, I don't know if you noticed. You probably did. Diane diamond is back.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, whatever. She comes and goes. She comes and goes.

[Julie Betsavale]

She's got some choice words in this one too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Well, this is an insane story.

[Julie Betsavale]

It really is. How did you find out about. How'd you get this one.

[Patrick Hines]

If I'm not hearing from listeners or just like in my travels. Cause it's my job to know what's out. I just get served stuff like you might like.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

But I don't know where this came from. This has been on our list for a while. I'm pretty sure it was a combination of listener requests and just saying like, would you be interested? And the answer is usually yes.

[Julie Betsavale]

Usually yes. It's one of the most devastating crimes in recent history. This little girl that's been taken from her family before the Christmas holiday. My heart. 20 year old Heather Elvis vanishes without a trace. It was the darkest, most desolate place in Horry County. There's a desperation for answers and we don't have them.

[Patrick Hines]

They were harassing this 20 year old woman and she was absolutely terrified.

[Julie Betsavale]

We speak exclusively with Heather's anxious family and friends.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm one of those people who needs facts.

[Julie Betsavale]

I wanted proof.

[Patrick Hines]

I wanted to know what happened. There's so many things unfinished in her life. So many things that she doesn't get to do.

[Julie Betsavale]

And go inside two of the most contentious trials of recent times. This junk science. There's no science to it. It is complete.

[Patrick Hines]

You said, well, Sydney cheated on me in the months of September and October with a psycho whore. Right. It's all a game.

[Julie Betsavale]

Everything's a game. And it's not a game. Well, we're in Myrtle Beach. It's December 19, 2013. They describe Myrtle beach as like a transient tourist area that sees as many as 18 million tourists throughout the summer season. I think the reason I had that response to it is cuz I grew up in a beach town like this.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, okay.

[Julie Betsavale]

You know what I mean? I grew up on Cape Cod and so I. The summer beach season is just a nightmare.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It can be very touristy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Our victim is Heather Elvis. She's 20 years old. But we learn about this place called Peachtree Landing. And it's a few miles away from downtown. At night it's like super desolate. And Matt, who's a news anchor says it's where you want to go if you don't want to be seen.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, It's a place where like they put like boats in the water. Like that's I guess what a landing is.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. But it's like it's super rural too. So at night like it's really desolate.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. Which is funny because it's like downtown Myrtle beach is like a happening area. And then this is a couple miles away.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So it's December 19, 2013, at 9:00, and officer Kenneth Canterbury is called to the scene for a suspicious vehicle.

[Julie Betsavale]

So he gets there, he finds a green DOD Intrepid that's, like, parked abnormally. It's, like, parked up across a bunch of spaces.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

And there's no other cars in the parking lot. They said that by all accounts, the car's been there for a couple of days.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And there's, like, nothing broken. There's no blood. It's weird, but nothing dangerous that he could see. And he says that, like, it's not actually that uncommon. There are a lot of tourists, a lot of people passing through. It's like a weird car parked in a weird place. They're not going to 100 just yet.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's weird because the car's been there for a couple days, and it's like they're acting as though somebody just forgot their car. It's like somebody, like, just, like, parked their car and forgot that it was weirdly, because to me, it's like, well, okay, we're at a boat landing, so it could be somebody who, like, went on a kayaking trip and desperately needs your help down river. Yeah, I think that could be a little closer to 100 than they are, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

So Kenny the cop runs the license plate, and it's registered to Terry Elvis. And the cops actually know this guy? Yes, he owns the printing company in town, and Terry is here with us. And it turns out that Heather, our victim, is his daughter.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. And so Officer Canterbury goes to the Elvis home.

[Patrick Hines]

He comes to the house, I think first thing he said was, are you missing a car? And I look in the drive.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I said, no.

[Julie Betsavale]

And he said, Green Intrepid.

[Patrick Hines]

I said, that's Heather's car. Wait, what? That's Heather's car?

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. So it takes them too long to tell us this, because I couldn't understand. Does Heather live at home? Does she talk to her family very often? Heather does not live at home. She's young. She's like. I think she's 20. She doesn't live with her parents, and it seems like they don't talk every day, which is totally fine. Lord knows I don't talk to my parents every single day. They didn't know that the car would have been there for several days. So it's like Heather could be have been missing for days and nobody knew.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, she'd moved out, but she still had a room at home, which I love. So she was there a lot. And so Terry her father and the cop go to check out the car. And the inside of the car is a mess. Like, lots of papers. Actual receipts. Like, real, actual receipts.

[Julie Betsavale]

I will never hear the word receipts again without hearing you say receipts.

[Patrick Hines]

Receipts. I said receipts once by mistake, and I heard it.

[Julie Betsavale]

You heard it. No. You called yourself out on it. And it's.

[Patrick Hines]

No. So many listeners were like, thank God you did, because it would have pissed me off all day if you didn't call yourself out. I was like, whoa.

[Julie Betsavale]

Well, I have two things to say about this. Aaron, our social media guy, who is the best, made the funniest TikTok. Because it's like, you like hearing your.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you like looking up, like. Yeah, that gif. Of doing the math.

[Julie Betsavale]

I can't imagine a person would imagine the word is actually receipts. But I did go to high school with a girl who's. I'm still very good friends with, who insisted that the word was pronounced. Licorice.

[Patrick Hines]

We're not doing this. We're not doing this.

[Julie Betsavale]

And she would not. She would not take the note. Licorice is what she.

[Patrick Hines]

People who say caramel.

[Julie Betsavale]

Hi, Kate. I know you listen.

[Patrick Hines]

People who say caramel. What's with you ignoring that second A? It's caramel.

[Julie Betsavale]

It is caramel, right?

[Patrick Hines]

It's just. It's how it spelled. And I know I say things weird all the time. Whatever. Weird to you. But I don't like. What's with the. Are you just, like, actively ignoring the A?

[Julie Betsavale]

I guess so, yeah. Like caramel corn.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like the crayon people. Are you just ignoring the Y at the end of crayon?

[Julie Betsavale]

I will say, like that. Yeah. Like, daisy, let's color with your crayons. But I do think it's a region. It sounds stupid, but I think it's a regional thing.

[Patrick Hines]

So they pop the trunk, expecting the worst, and all they see is just, like, a bunch of stuff. It's just like, a mess.

[Julie Betsavale]

Do you remember how the dad described how full the trunk was? You couldn't have put a cheeseburger in there. It was so full of stuff, you.

[Patrick Hines]

Can'T even put a cheeseburger in it. I was like, what?

[Julie Betsavale]

You couldn't even put a cheeseburger in there if you tried.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

I was like, whoa.

[Patrick Hines]

I've never heard that, but I like it. I'm into that a lot.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, but how full is it? Could you get a cheeseburger in there if you want to?

[Patrick Hines]

Definitely not a deluxe. Definitely not a deluxe.

[Julie Betsavale]

That was. I. Look, I love this Guy, I'm on his side. It was. It was a weird way of saying the trunk was.

[Patrick Hines]

I loved it. You know I loved it. Travel down girl.

[Julie Betsavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

What are you doing?

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

Yep. Then you can choose who you want to talk to and meet with great people as soon as the next. It is so freaking easy. I mean, where was this even a year ago?

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Betsavale]

Yes, please.

[Patrick Hines]

Done. So everyone's like, okay, there's no real evidence of foul play, but also, where is Heather? So we're not really getting any good news here because where is Heather?

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, and there's like nothing in the. Like her wallet isn't there. Her keys aren't there. Her phone isn't there. And what makes me crazy is that the cop is just like, well, nothing to see here. Dad, why don't you drive the car home?

[Patrick Hines]

And they're like, no, because we just saw Heather a few days ago. Everything was fine. The Christmas tree was going up. Heather was in good spirits. Like she was excited. She was like high on life. So what, what happened?

[Julie Betsavale]

It just made me crazy that they to Me, the car was a crime scene. And I was like, please don't. Just, like, get in there and put your hands all over the steering wheel. You know what I mean? But that's what they do.

[Patrick Hines]

So we meet Debbie Elvis, who's Heather's mom. And she said that they tried calling Heather, but her phone was off or dead and going straight to voicemail. And Debbie's here to tell us. Like, no, that was really unusual. It just went straight to voicemail. Like, her phone was off and she never, ever let her phone die. She would panic. If it got down to 30%, it was an extension of her body. If she got down to 30%, she was in a panic. So, like, the fact that her phone is dead and it's going straight to voicemail is, like, a major red flag.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Ashley Banfield is here.

[Julie Betsavale]

I love her.

[Patrick Hines]

To remind us for the 10 millionth time that there was no reason for Heather to get up and leave. And it's like, you guys, this almost never happens. And don't. Yeah, but. Or, well, actually me.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Has it happened in the history of the world? Sure.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like, three times.

[Patrick Hines]

But for us to constantly explain why someone wouldn't skip town is exhausting. More often than not.

[Julie Betsavale]

Also, like, if they're gonna skip town, I would think they would take their car.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julie Betsavale]

Am I wrong?

[Patrick Hines]

On their fucking phone.

[Julie Betsavale]

She didn't get in that kayak and, like, pad out to the ocean.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, of course she didn't just leave town.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not you, Ashley. I'm yelling at the thing. It's not you.

[Julie Betsavale]

Ashley is on your side. Ashley Banfield has been on. Do you know that they saw Jack the Ripper and that Ashley Banfield has been on a mission to, like, make people know? I feel like no one is talking about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, no.

[Julie Betsavale]

And what they did was the. There was a cloak that was found next to one of the final victims. It was recently, 10 years ago, purchased by a historian. A historian had it tested for DNA that then they genealogically traced back to the person who was always the prime suspect.

[Patrick Hines]

Who was it?

[Julie Betsavale]

I can't think of his name now, of course, because I didn't plan to talk about it, but, like, they solved Jack the Ripper and no one's talking about. Ashley Banfield is talking about it on her TikTok every single day.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I got to get into this.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I had no idea.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So right now, like, yes, this is very confusing, but has a crime been committed? Like, yes.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

How many Times do we have to go through this?

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Heather's parents tell us more about her. She was due in July, but she came early, which I thought was very sweet.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Her brother Chris is 10 years older than her. And Heather and her sister Morgan are four years apart. And Morgan is here with us.

[Julie Betsavale]

Morgan, I think needs to be a poet. Like the way that she speaks.

[Patrick Hines]

I, in my notes I asked her, but in my notes I said, Morgan, are you a writer? I love how she talks about Heather.

[Julie Betsavale]

Can I just say too that that's a 14 year spread of children. So like I know that that's probably not that uncommon, but that just seems crazy to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I've heard it most common. I'm not generalizing, but I've heard it most common because my husband, this is what my husband's experiences is that he has half siblings who are. The difference in years is really big for his half siblings.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. Yeah. But it's like you have a 14 year old and a new baby, like that's like a 13 year old and you're pregnant. Like that. That's just sounds wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Mike says like, oh, my sister. Where I'm not saying like half is less than. I've gotten in trouble for that too as an identify.

[Julie Betsavale]

You know, they love you. They're not out to get you. I promise they do love you.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't think that. I'm just saying, like, I'm not saying anything bad. Anyway, Heather, back to Heather. This is about Heather. Heather loved to draw, she loved to paint, she loved colors, she loved to sing. But not for anyone. Like she doesn't want to get on stage. But Morgan would listen to Heather like sing to herself in the morning.

[Julie Betsavale]

And, and, and Heather didn't know like Morgan would like sit downstairs and listen to her like sister upstairs singing in the bathroom. She says she was big in any went into.

[Patrick Hines]

If you could sum her up in a color, it'd be yellow. If you could sum her up in a flower, it'd be a field.

[Julie Betsavale]

If you were to sum her up in a flower, it would be a field.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's what, what I wrote in my notes. Morgan, are you a writer? I love how she talks about Heather. So Heather loved working and loved helping people. She went to Puerto Rico on a church mission. She was there to build and fix houses. She loved everything about working and she especially loved her job at the Tilted Kilt Pub and Eatery.

[Julie Betsavale]

Okay, like we're going to get to it in a second but somebody says the Tilted Kilt Is basically like a hoot rip off.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is one of those joints where all the servers are women and they're all scantily clad. And today I learned a term called breastaurant.

[Julie Betsavale]

Okay, okay. But did you see that the closed captions did not say restaurant? I was like, did she say restaurant? I do, because the closed caption says that she said restaurant, but I'm with you. She said breast.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Well, I have the Wikipedia screenshot.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, it's like a real thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's a restaurant that. Here's what it says per Wikipedia. It's a restaurant that requires female waiting staff to be dressed skimpily. The term dates from early 90s after Hooters opened in the United States. The format has been adopted by other restaurants, including the Tilted Kilt Pub and Eatery. So this is like a chain. Twin Peaks, like, fucking punch yourself in the face. Bikinis Sports bar and Grill. Redneck Heaven.

[Julie Betsavale]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

And Bombshells bar and Grill. These restaurants often use double entendre. A sexual double entendre. Brand name. No shit. They may also be themed. The restaurants may offer perks for customers, such as alcoholic drinks and flirty servers. So this is like the Hooters, but they're wearing kilts and very scantily cloud.

[Julie Betsavale]

The one thing I will say about Hooters is I have never met a person who has worked at a Hooters who didn't love working at Hooters.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

No, that's great.

[Julie Betsavale]

Wait, do you have opinions?

[Patrick Hines]

I think the whole thing can be very ridiculous.

[Julie Betsavale]

I mean, if Daisy came home, was like, I want to work at Hooters, I would have a big problem.

[Patrick Hines]

I think if you're treated well, they're great. But I think we. I don't know how. Why we should be normalizing. Like, taking your entire family and kids to the. To, like, teach young kids to be sexualizing.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Women and girls at such a young age and such a normal. Like, here are the delicious wings. And, like, here's the.

[Julie Betsavale]

And you're right. It's pitched as a family restaurant.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Which is why they want to be like, no, no, no. Like, no harm here. It's a family restaurant. I'm like, I don't really know. And, like, the servers there, God love you, and reach out to me because I want to know, like, what it's like and how much autonomy you have to say. Like, don't be a creep. You're in front of your kid. Like, are you allowed to say that? Or do you have to sort of keep up the mystique of, like, oh, she might be, you know, like, what is. Like, where is the line?

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So. Because I don't know what the line is. I have strong feelings about it. But if I'm wrong, tell me. And if it's a real. But it just seems to me, like, can we not be normalizing. Socializing people.

[Julie Betsavale]

So normalized. Because I. I always thought it was kind of like, oh, my goodness, we're gonna go to Hooters. And then, like, you get in there, and it's like, no, it's like Disney World.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like a family joint.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I just don't know if we should be teaching little kids even more to be able to, like, reach out and touch somebody, because people were reaching out and touching me. And I never worked at a bar like a Hooters or a restaurant like a Hooters, and people get super handsy no matter what kind of. In my experience, no matter what kind of. Of establishment you're working in as a server.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So that part I don't like, but Heather loved it. And the women that we meet work there. They seem to be, like, really looking out for each other. So that part I love. Like, the women working there, I'm sure, are, like, in the trenches together, but I just wish you weren't in trenches when you're just going to work.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

That's my take on it.

[Julie Betsavale]

Well, we meet Brianna, who's Heather's best friend, and they. They met at work, and initially, Brianna.

[Patrick Hines]

Did not like her anyway.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, I was going to say they met at work, and they didn't like. Briana. Didn't like her because she was too, she says, hyper. Heather was too hyper. But then, like, she got to know her, and they sort of loved each other.

[Patrick Hines]

Heather was very independent. She didn't like the rules at the house. She didn't like having to be in by a certain time. So when she turned 18, she wanted to live with her friends. She ended up moving in with me. She was very messy. I feel like I would clean things, and it'd be like a bomb went off in my apartment five minutes later.

[Julie Betsavale]

I loved her. The girl was messy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

I felt very seen by Heather. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Heather's also super busy because she is working at this Tilted Kill place. But she also has her cosmetology license.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And because she was such an artist, she was really great at her cosmetology license or studying that because she was an Artist. And she loved color. So her mom explains that she was really good at, like, picking out the right colors for people, for your hair and your makeup. And she could, like, look at you and be like, I. Like, she could see, like, the kids.

[Julie Betsavale]

God, what a gift. And we learned that on the. On the day that she went missing, she went on an interview to be a makeup artist at a local salon. And she was, like, nailing it.

[Patrick Hines]

She just got a job. She just got a job. So tell me once again how, like, she just, like, ran off into the night without her car.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like, she kayaked off of the night.

[Patrick Hines]

Give me a break. So two days before Heather's car is found, Heather tells her mom that she's going on a date with some new guy. And that's all she said. So it's 9:00 that night, and this is how, you know, Heather and her parents are in touch often. Yeah, because Heather sends a picture to her parents, and she's driving this, quote, new guy guy's truck. And she's, like, proud of me. I can drive a stick shift. She's happy. She's checking in with her parents. She has a big smile on her face. And this is the last time her family hears from Heather. And immediately I'm like, who the hell is this guy? I want to talk to him.

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Bring him in. I want to talk to him.

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly. I mean, this has got to be the guy, right? So we find out. One of Heather's friends gives the cop this guy's name. His name is Steven Scardi. He's 22 years old. He works as a line cook at a restaurant called the Wicked Tuna. He went to high school with Heather, but they didn't really know each other, but he thought she was cute, so he reached out to her on social media and they. They set up this date that driving d. It was like their first date. He picks her up that night. They go to eat dinner at a place called Bandidos in downtown Myrtle Beach. It was a Mexican restaurant. After dinner, Steven takes her to Inlet Square mall to teach her to drive his manual transmission truck. My friend Cory Schnabel took me on a date and taught me how to drive a stick shift.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a very cute, flirty date y thing to do.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, it feels like very beach town y too, because I remember going to, like, the beach parking lot.

[Patrick Hines]

It's very like having, like, both your hands are on the stick shift. Like, I get it. It's very. It can be very cute and very, like, butterflies it's ador. So after that, they go back to Steven's mom's house where he was living, because, remember, they're all young. They're like, 20 years old.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They watch a movie. He drives her home. She invites him over for what someone describes as a look see tour. Basically, like, you want to come in for a while, but they just make out. And then he leaves and goes home. Like, couldn't be more wholesome and cute, all things considered.

[Julie Betsavale]

I mean, unless he's the fucking killer, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Which he's not.

[Julie Betsavale]

He's not.

[Patrick Hines]

But his mother.

[Julie Betsavale]

I was trying to give a little suspension.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I know. Sorry. We're too early. They know.

[Julie Betsavale]

You're right.

[Patrick Hines]

He's not the killer. It's like when you're watching SVU when you see someone famous in the opening credits, and then we get our first suspect, and you're like, well, it can't be him because Eric McCormick was in the credits. So Eric McCormick is definitely the killer.

[Julie Betsavale]

Has Will been a killer on svu?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Sorry, everybody.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, my God. Spoilers. But there was one episode with Kathy Griffin and Sutton Foster. It was a big, bananas episode.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. There's one with Deborah Messing, too.

[Julie Betsavale]

No way.

[Patrick Hines]

I hated that episode.

[Julie Betsavale]

Really?

[Patrick Hines]

She's like a host of a. Of a Chris Hansen to Catch a Predator thing.

[Julie Betsavale]

And, like, it's all taken very seriously.

[Patrick Hines]

It's taken way too seriously. And sure, her character sucks. And then I hated that Deborah Messing. Sorry. The best celebrity guest star on SVU to date. I mean, Robin Williams obviously is amazing. He plays the guy who does the. Remember, don't pick up the phone where he's, like, calling people because Robin Williams can do all these voices.

[Julie Betsavale]

So he's like, how did they get Robin Williams?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, sweeps week, I guess. But I think one of my favorites, which I don't see talked about enough, is Jennifer Love. He. I was, like, clenching my heart and crying. She was excellent. I think she won the Emmy for it.

[Julie Betsavale]

No way.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, Mike and I were riveted. She. I was like. I'm like, bring her back. Like, she. It was a really heavy lift. She's a stalk. She's a victim. Sorry, no spoilers. But, like, she's a victim of stalking and, like, repeated attacks.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, she's on. She's tense all the time, and, like, she and Olivia are working together to, like, get this guy, and it's like Mariska Hargitay and Jennifer Love Hewitt, and it's like, a really powerful Episode. I think it's actually called Stalked. But go watch it if you. But like trigger warning. It's hard. It's a hard, hard watch even for svu. Like, it's NBC. What can they show?

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, it's.

[Patrick Hines]

But she. I mean, she was excellent.

[Julie Betsavale]

Holy shit.

[Patrick Hines]

The end. Thank you for coming to my TikTok. So this guy's mother.

[Julie Betsavale]

Girl, we did, we did it.

[Patrick Hines]

This guy's mother confirms all of this. And I'm like, that's great, but I gotta tell you, mom alibis. Yeah, I don't care.

[Julie Betsavale]

No, but this.

[Patrick Hines]

He didn't, he didn't do it. But like whenever it's like. But his mom said he was home. I'm sure she did.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. They go through all of his stuff. He's cleared. He's not the guy. But you're like, wait a second. Like her car was literally found like four hours later. Like, how could he not be the guy?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julie Betsavale]

You know, and so.

[Patrick Hines]

And he was a new guy. No one really knew him. But they did have this really great, perfect, kind of like perfect first date.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is very sad.

[Julie Betsavale]

The cops now go search her apartment. The roommate is. It's the holidays, we should say the. Her roommate Brianna is away and the cops like let themselves in and go look at the apartment. It's a bit in disarray, but not atypical, maybe for a 20 year old. Clothes kind of scattered apart. About a half packed suitcase as well. And they find tissues scattered about. It's messy and there's things all over the place, but there's no signs of struggle, there's no signs of a crime. There's nothing really kind of out of the ordinary. The place is a disaster.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Clothes everywhere.

[Julie Betsavale]

See that shot of the counter that had like 40 booze bottles on it. I was like, very college. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

And Briana's home in New Jersey.

[Julie Betsavale]

All vodka, by the way. I was like, you guys, we can do better.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julie Betsavale]

Okay. No. We're not smart or. You nailed it.

[Patrick Hines]

Vodka can go with anything.

[Julie Betsavale]

I guess that's true.

[Patrick Hines]

Goes with anything.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Try it.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's. I mean, I wasn't drinking bourbon until like four years ago. So I guess, I guess you're, you know. I'm gonna go myself. I'll be back in two minutes for you. I'll go myself.

[Patrick Hines]

Leave the vodka.

[Julie Betsavale]

We'll resume in five minutes.

[Patrick Hines]

So good. That episode, like, I was shocked at how good it was and I, I like, was crying. I needed like a pal.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really really good. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Julie Betsavale]

Rocket Money is back. Fam. You know this. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps bills so you can grow your savings.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, everyone has subscriptions that we don't even really know we have.

[Julie Betsavale]

I just got two notifications on my credit card today, by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

So here's the thing. You can see all of your subscriptions in one place, which is my favorite part. And so you know exactly where your money's going. And then for the subscriptions that you don't want anymore, Rocket Money can help you cancel them. And they always. Not Rocket Money, but other people always make it really hard to do.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes, of course. My favorite thing. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate to lower your bills. So they'll automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save. Then you can ask them to negotiate for you. They'll deal with customer service so you don't have to. Like, that is a dream.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's why these companies do things like that, where they're like, no one wants to deal with customer service.

[Julie Betsavale]

100 Rocket Money gets out of bed to deal with customers. Are you kidding?

[Patrick Hines]

Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to 740 bucks a year when they use all of the app's premium features.

[Julie Betsavale]

Dear listener, I know you're sitting there right now going, they are talking to me. We are talking to you. You need this.

[Patrick Hines]

This is all of us.

[Julie Betsavale]

This is it. Happened to me twice today.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julie Betsavale]

Today, spam. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to rocket money.com/obessed today.

[Julie Betsavale]

That's rocketmoney.com obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Rocketmoney.com obsessed.

[Julie Betsavale]

We're talking to you. You know we are.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's go do it right now. So the cops are looking at cell phone records. They're testing the car. They're at Peachtree Landing, which is the place where the car was found. That's, like, pretty desolate. So they're trying to figure out what happened. And I'm like, well, what about the restaurant? Because the place is filled with pretty girls in sexy outfits. So maybe some, like, got sweet on her and followed her home and did something awful.

[Julie Betsavale]

Perhaps. Totally. And I just wanted to say one more time, like, also, maybe check the river. Like, you're at a landing and her car is there. Like, people drive to landings and then go get in the water.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe they Did. And nothing came of it. And so that's why we didn't hear about it. I don't know. But we meet Jessica Cook, who's the manager and Heather's boss.

[Julie Betsavale]

And nosy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, very. She'll try to make excuses for it later, but. So Jessica did front of house, and also, quote, really tried to take care of the girls. I'm like, what is she, a madam? What is this place?

[Julie Betsavale]

I know. I gotta say, like, let me show shout out to my, like, restaurant managers. That is a hard, hard, thankless job. Thankless job. God, we see you, we love you, we need you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So also nurses. We say the same thing.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know. Nurses and teachers.

[Patrick Hines]

So astronauts. Heather. Yes. Heather was the hostess, which means a part of her job is to talk to everyone who comes in and, like, look at them.

[Julie Betsavale]

The look of, like, utter dread.

[Patrick Hines]

Could never be me.

[Julie Betsavale]

What? In, like, in that outfit?

[Patrick Hines]

It's just. It's not the women I'm talking about.

[Julie Betsavale]

No, no, no, no. Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, I just hate what it. What could happen. Conversation could be a day ruiner. At the very least, it could ruin your day totally. At the very worst, who knows, right? But, like, at the very least, you could just, like, feel, like, disgusting and want to take a shower. That's the least of it.

[Julie Betsavale]

No, I totally hear you.

[Patrick Hines]

So I'm just feeling, like, protective of these 100%.

[Julie Betsavale]

And now we learned about this guy, Sydney Moore. He's a maintenance guy. He started working at the restaurant around April 2013, they said, and he would come in after hours and, like, fix the restaurant equipment.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. He was, quote, very outgoing, always joking around with everyone.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Heather and Sydney like each other. We hear soon Sydney seems to show.

[Julie Betsavale]

An interest in Heather as well.

[Patrick Hines]

Sydney worked at night, so when he started to come in during the day, he would come in on his days off and bring Heather coffee, bagels, donuts, tea. He would come in, hang out for a few minutes, and then he would go. Sidney would come in on his days off and hang out with Heather and bring her coffee. And this struck me because usually at places like that, there are strict rules about no boyfriends or, like, no anyone you're dating.

[Julie Betsavale]

I wonder if he got around that by being like, I'm just checking on the fry.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure that's what it was. But, like, to come in on his off days and bring her coffee and, like, I'm sure at first I was like, well, maybe it was different because he worked there. And then I'm like, no, it should actually be more heavily enforced because he works there 100%.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so like, whatever. What do I know, right?

[Julie Betsavale]

You should run one of these places.

[Patrick Hines]

Nothing. So Jessica, the manager's in the office. Heather, our victim, her phone is blowing up. Now, Jessica.

[Julie Betsavale]

No, we should just say that Heather is charging her phone in Jessica's office. Heather's phone is on Jessica's desk.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And it's like blowing up. And so Jessica's like, I looked at it because I thought there was an emergency.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I just started going through the notifications.

[Julie Betsavale]

Here's what you do in that situation. You unplug the phone and you take it out to the host stand and say, there's a lot of activity on your. Jessica just gets a nosy Nelly.

[Patrick Hines]

Jessica read all the texts 1 million.

[Julie Betsavale]

Percent of what she read. The first one she scrolled back for.

[Patrick Hines]

Days because what she is reading is that Heather, our victim and the Sydney, the maintenance guy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. There was one in particular that set.

[Patrick Hines]

Off a red flag for me and it was that they were having sex.

[Julie Betsavale]

On the back patio of Tilted Killed. They definitely were in a sexual relationship. When I found out, I was surprised.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he was a much older man at that point. Heather was 19 and I believe Sydney was around 40. And this is where we learn that this guy is 40.

[Julie Betsavale]

40.

[Patrick Hines]

And Heather is 19. Also, Sidney is 40 and married with three kids.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, Heather, we learn immediately, not only is he married, he has a nightmare wife named Tamm.

[Julie Betsavale]

And I'm kind of really excited to hear what you got to say about it.

[Patrick Hines]

I hate Sidney. I know.

[Julie Betsavale]

She's.

[Patrick Hines]

I hate the two of them. Sidney and Tammy. Totally go to hell.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. See you there. So Heather, it turns out he's in there.

[Julie Betsavale]

Actually quite liked it.

[Patrick Hines]

Amazing. So Heather is scared that Tammy the wife is going to find out. And guess what, everyone, she does. Because the wife starts sending Heather threatening text messages.

[Julie Betsavale]

And Diane diamond is going to read us some of them. Diane diamond reads one that says someone's.

[Patrick Hines]

About to get an ass beat down.

[Julie Betsavale]

Someone's about to get an ass beat down.

[Patrick Hines]

Get ready to meet the.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So this 40 year old woman finds out that her husband is cheating on her with a 19 year old and in her infinite wisdom decides to viciously attack the 19 year old, like rather.

[Julie Betsavale]

Than taking it out on her husband.

[Patrick Hines]

She does. Don't worry.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, yeah. In a way, she's a she. I mean, she's definitely a piece of work, but this is insane.

[Patrick Hines]

But what she also does Is she's sending photos, like sexual photos of Tammy and Sidney having sex. So the wife is sending sexual photos, photos of the guy that Heather is having sex with, who happens to be her husband. Like Sidney, like going down on Tammy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Tammy is so sick. She wants him to be sleeping with a 19 year old so she can terrorize her.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what she wants.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's fun game for her. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Heather gets like, she sees all these texts. That's why her phone's blowing up. Just to put it all together. The phone's blowing up because this woman is harassing 19 year old Heather.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Heather, but then like after scrolling.

[Julie Betsavale]

Through all the messages, like Jessica just hands the phone to Heather. It does nothing about it. Like stop reading other people's text messages.

[Patrick Hines]

So Heather, though so smartly is like, okay, this is over. It's not false fun. It's scary. It's weird. I'm done. Like she's out.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So once the cops learn about all this, they call Sydney and it is chaotic and a mess from the jump.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. He tells the cops he and Heather haven't talked in a while. Now obviously he's the boyfriend. Of course they're going to be looking at him.

[Patrick Hines]

And they just let it hang for 10 seconds. They don't even ask him anything. Did you watch the residents?

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh no, we started it but we haven't gotten very far.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like when detective couple asks you something.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then. And she'll just look at you.

[Julie Betsavale]

Uh huh. Cause you gotta fill the silence.

[Patrick Hines]

And two seconds later they're like, okay, well what really happened? Also everyone watched the residents. It's so good. But that's what happens. So they're like, Sydney, when was the last time you spoke to Heather? And he's like, Sydney said, no, I haven't talked to her in a long while. And then they keep talking. And then he says, well, I talked to her maybe the other night and I talked to her to tell her to stop contacting me.

[Julie Betsavale]

She hadn't called me in a while, so I called her to tell her not to call me anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, and then like, let's do this at your house, right? Let's chat in your home. So a couple of cops are chatting with Sidney at his house and meanwhile other cops are looking into his background. And this guy had a pretty great life, honestly.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like what I don't understand is where the money comes from. Because we learned that this guy, we'll get his backstory. So he's born in 1976. They say he comes from a good family. In 1997, he moved to Myrtle beach to, like, find work. He works as a maintenance guy at the local restaurants. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julie Betsavale]

He meets Tammy at one of the restaurants. They quickly get married and have three kids. Tammy is quietly described as controlling.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the minute he meets Tammy, he never sees the rest of his family again.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Tammy's. She runs the show. She's controlling in a nightmare. And like, she. Apparently, this guy is such a catch.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Tammy has bad judgment all across the board. She makes him cut himself off from his family.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's who he had been very close with. We learned that they live in some big compound at the end of some road. We see pictures of it. This house is huge. We also find out they're Disney adults. They're going to Disney with their children so often they have to homeschool them because of their Disney travel schedule. Where's the money coming from?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know how she does.

[Julie Betsavale]

She works at restaurants. That's where they met. Oh. I mean, maybe she does something now. But, like, it. Like, they seem to have, like, an endless supply of money.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But the thing about this house, it is huge. There's a lot of property, and it's at a dead end of the road. It's really secluded. So one way in, one way out. Just remember that later.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You guys, they go to Disney so often, they have to homeschool their kids. Like, okay. So we hear the conversation.

[Julie Betsavale]

Not that fun. I'm going to just say it. It's not that.

[Patrick Hines]

Why I haven't been. I been once.

[Julie Betsavale]

I was once, I think maybe once when I was in college. Like my sister, they live nearby, so they go all the time. It's. You wait in line all day long unless you're going to spend $500 in that fast pass or whatever. It's 100 degrees. No matter what. You're with your kid who just like, like, it's just. It sounds like a nightmare to me. And there are people who build their entire lives around it. And I'm not judging you. If you love it, love it. I'm not trying to yuck your yum, but, like, I don't think I'm ever going. I don't think I'm ever taking Daisy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I mean, I think I've been twice. Once when I was little and then once in high school with, like, a friend.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And we had fun because it's just like me and my parents, you know.

[Julie Betsavale]

It'S like, it' not that you're Incredibly patient.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I was a good kid. I'm much less patient now than I was when I was a kid.

[Julie Betsavale]

It'd be tough to go to Disney with you now.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

Because I'd just be like, what are we doing here?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not. What, I have to nurse a $22 drink that's melted in two seconds to try to get through it.

[Julie Betsavale]

If I ever book a sitcom, which I have no desire and my angling to do that. But if I ever book a sitcom and become famous enough to get one of those Disney handlers where you like go in the back way and you don't have to wait in line, you do the whole thing, then I'll go, that's what I'm going to do.

[Patrick Hines]

It feels like There are just 10 different way to cut the line. So at this point it's like, are you really cutting the line? Because now the, the second line has to be just as bad as the first.

[Julie Betsavale]

It just sounds like a nightmare. It sounds like a nightmare to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Sounds like a lot.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So we hear the conversation with Sydney and the cops because it's on the dash cam so we can't see it, but we can hear it. And Sydney says, well, I used to be, I used to date Heather, but I broke it off because she was just way too obsessed with me.

[Julie Betsavale]

And then, but then a couple of weeks after we broke up, I called her to tell her not to call me, even though she hadn't been calling.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we know that's not true because Heather broke up with him a month and a half ago after getting sexually explicit texts from his wife. And she's like, I'm out. Like, I love that. Heather was like, nope, vibes are off. Like, I'm done. I'm, I'm a very smart, artistic, cool, uh huh. 20 year old with my whole life I had.

[Julie Betsavale]

No. With a sister, speaks poetry, I don't need you.

[Patrick Hines]

Like I don't need this shit. It was like, it's so obvious that Heather was kind of just like around Sydney because he was there, you know, Like Heather wasn't like head over heels for this guy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And I just love that Heather's the adult in the room.

[Julie Betsavale]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

So Sidney says, yeah, I spoke to her the day she went missing, but it was only to her to stop contacting me. So you broke up a month and a half ago and the one time you call her is the day she goes missing.

[Julie Betsavale]

Now do you want to tell them his alibi for why he definitely didn't see her the night she went missing.

[Patrick Hines]

Just stay with me because I'm going to say a lot of words.

[Julie Betsavale]

And.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm going to say it all at once and then we can dissect it. His alibi is he says that he was asleep during that time and he was handcuffed to the bedpost by his wife. This was punishment for his affair with Heather and only his wife had the key.

[Julie Betsavale]

He was handcuffed to his bed by his wife Tammy as punishment for the.

[Patrick Hines]

Affair and she's the only one with the key. So there's no way he could have done anything bad.

[Julie Betsavale]

No. Handcuffed to the bed.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road.

[Julie Betsavale]

Back again, girl. Haya is back. Look, these are the vitamins for the kids that are actually really good for them. They are not the candy in disguise that all the other vitamins are.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. So many other vitamins are just like a bunch of sugar and unhealthy chemicals and all of these additives that kids should just never be eating. No, basically, if I'm just gonna say.

[Julie Betsavale]

It'S basically all they want to be eating ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So while many children's vitamins are filled with like 5 grams of sugar, which is known to contribute to a variety of health issues, by the way.

[Julie Betsavale]

Correct.

[Patrick Hines]

Haya is made with zero sugar and zero gummy additives.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. So it was formulated with the help of pediatricians and nutritional experts. Haya is pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and vegetables. That's the most Daisy gets in a day. Then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and ingredients including vitamin, vitamin D, B, 12C, zinc, folate and many others to help support immune system energy, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones and more. Now listen, if you have a kid like I do, you know, if you can get this all in one place, like half your day's job is done.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So are you tired of battling with your kids to eat their greens?

[Julie Betsavale]

No. I love it. I'm, I'm, I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

Hyatt now has Kids Daily Greens and Superfoods, a chocolate favored greens powder designed specific specifically for kids. Packed with 55 plus whole food ingredients to support brain power, development and digestion. Just scoop, shake and sip with milk or any non dairy beverage for a delicious and nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Daisy has hers every single morning. She looks forward to it. So, fam, we've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50 off your first order.

[Patrick Hines]

To claim this deal, you must go to hayahealth.com tco.

[Julie Betsavale]

This deal is not available on their website. Regular website, go to H I Y-A H E-A-L-T-.com TCO and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[Patrick Hines]

And it comes with cute stickers.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, my God. In the bottle. You get to decorate it.

[Patrick Hines]

Decorate the bottle.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. Very jealous of that girl. Fast Growing Trees is back. Did you know Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers?

[Patrick Hines]

I did, actually.

[Julie Betsavale]

Of course you did.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll do you one better. They have all the plants your yard needs, like fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and so much more.

[Julie Betsavale]

Whatever plants you're interested in. Fam. Fast Growing Trees has you covered. Find the perfect fit for your climate and space.

[Patrick Hines]

Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard order online and get your plants delivered directly to your door in just a few days without ever leaving home.

[Julie Betsavale]

Honestly, what a dream.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julie Betsavale]

Their alive and thrive guarantee, by the way, ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy.

[Patrick Hines]

Plus, you get support from trained plant experts on call to help you plant your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them.

[Julie Betsavale]

This is incredible.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. They also, it's not just for people with yards, because I don't have one. I don't have a yard, but I do have a fast growing tree from Fast Growing Trees. And it's awesome because I just have like my little, like teeny tiny house plants that I was tending to.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is great. But it's nice to have like a full grown tree plant in my apartment.

[Julie Betsavale]

I mean, I'm totally obsessed. I've been wanting to be a plant person for forever.

[Patrick Hines]

We're going for it. It's really hard. But not with fast growing trees.

[Julie Betsavale]

No. So, fam, this spring, they've got the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals.

[Patrick Hines]

And listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code TCO at checkout.

[Julie Betsavale]

That's an additional 15% [e-mail] using code TCO at checkout.

[Patrick Hines]

Fastgrowingtrees.com, code TCO.

[Julie Betsavale]

Now's the perfect time to plant. Use TCO to save today.

[Patrick Hines]

Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.

[Julie Betsavale]

You always come in with the rules.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Well, just in case. So now we get another voice of reason. Brianna, the roommate and best friend.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she also spoke to Heather the day she Went missing because Brianna was with her family in New Jersey.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right. So. So remember, they live together. So Brianna tells us that Heather called her at 1:44 in the morning, hysterical, saying that Sydney told her he had left Tammy and wanted to be with her, but she didn't know what to do because she was afraid of Tammy.

[Patrick Hines]

She's hysterical. If you want, like, if she wanted this to happen and knew it was a good idea, she would not be sobbing on the phone with her best friend. So she' like, I'm alone. Help me. I'm hating this.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes. The call saying, I left my wife, I want to be with you, was not good news to Heather.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Or anyone. So Brianna's like, girl, no, this is a bad idea. Just, like, take a deep breath, have some water, go to sleep. We'll talk about it in the morning.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You're going to be okay. But, like, whatever you do, like, don't go meet this guy. This is your. Your gut is right.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like, yes. And, like, of course, like, she's just told the story to the cops. And the cops are like, right. That idiot that we didn't believe told us he was handcuffed to a bed all night. And now this, like, reliable witness is saying no. At 1:44 in the morning, he's, like, trying to get Heather to come and meet him.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. But Sydney also says that he did speak to Heather the night she went missing. So he says it was to tell her to leave him alone. BFF says otherwise.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So this phone call that we're talking about, this 1:44am phone call with Sidney saying, I'm leaving my wife for you. It came from a gas station payphone at 130 in the morning. And we have surveillance footage of Sidney.

[Julie Betsavale]

At the payphone, but Sydney doesn't know that we know any of this.

[Patrick Hines]

Which means that he was definitely not handcuffed to the bed.

[Julie Betsavale]

No. And so they bring him in for questioning. He doesn't know that. They know that that call came from a payphone and that they've got him on tape making the call from a paper.

[Patrick Hines]

So they haul him down to the station to lock him into a story so that they can then dismantle it and arrest him.

[Julie Betsavale]

This is where you would shine, right? This is where you'd be great at.

[Patrick Hines]

This, knowing exactly what the truth is.

[Julie Betsavale]

This would be awesome.

[Patrick Hines]

This would be so fun to do with a fucking dingbat bozo like Sidney.

[Julie Betsavale]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Because now his story is. This is story number three, four. I can't keep track his story now.

[Julie Betsavale]

We'Re trying to repair our marriage. Okay? When we were at Broadway, we had.

[Patrick Hines]

Sex in the parking lot.

[Julie Betsavale]

Okay. That's the greatest traffic part I was talking about. Okay. And then when we went to Conway.

[Patrick Hines]

We had sex in a different parking lot. He and his wife were driving around town having sex in multiple parking lots as an attempt to repair their marriage.

[Julie Betsavale]

And they're like grocery store parking lots.

[Patrick Hines]

And so why did you lie about the handcuffs?

[Julie Betsavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, what are you talking about? This is all happening, by the way, in the back of his pickup truck, this black F150, if that means anything to you.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Sidney explains to the cops that the phone call with Heather. Heather. He's calling her in the middle of having sex with his wife in all these parking lots to repair their marriage. Two seconds ago, he was handcuffed, but now he's repairing his marriage by way of parking lot sex.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And he takes a break to call Heather to be like, you need to stop calling me.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So he calls her.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This is what Sydney's saying. He calls Heather mid parking lot sex. And Heather's like, I'm so glad you called. And then starts begging him to come see her. And then he's like, no, I told you, I'm fixing my marriage. Now, if you'll excuse me, there's a parking lot I need to go have sex in. I said, good day. And then Sydney's like, well, I called Heather one more time, and I definitely didn't use a payphone.

[Julie Betsavale]

Definitely didn't. And they're like.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like, do they even still have payphones? That's so weird.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right? And then they're like, okay, well, that's interesting, because we do have a video of somebody making a call from a pay phone at a gas station on 10th Street. Are you sure that wasn't you? He's like, yeah, that definitely wasn't me. And they go, are you sure? He goes, well, maybe he goes, can we start over?

[Patrick Hines]

Because you're right. I did call Heather from a pay phone. And I'm like, this. This guy.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's so the best. It's like. Like they never have a plan. They never. Like, he just did whatever Tammy told him to do.

[Patrick Hines]

That's exactly.

[Julie Betsavale]

And he didn't have a plan. He didn't think he'd be the one called downtown or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he is. And he's walking into every single trap being set for him.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's, you know, to be serious for a second. This is where I start to think about Tammy and Sidney's three kids. Because I'm like. Like all I can think about.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine her for a mother too.

[Julie Betsavale]

Well, right? I mean, so. Right. So now maybe if they're both gonna go to jail for the rest of their lives, these kids are gonna get like. I just. Oh, my God. Did they both do this to Heather? Not only the tragedy of Heather's lost life, probably, but also the three kids that are about to lose both of their parents. It just. It makes me crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

If any of them are boys and are dating a girl girlfriend, run.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Tammy's gonna make your life miserable.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And. Or kill you.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like she's a nightmare. So Sydney gives his statement and walks out a free man. Because as of right now, using a pay phone isn't a crime. Yes, maybe one day it will be. Who knows?

[Julie Betsavale]

But currently it's fingers crossed.

[Patrick Hines]

So they go to Sydney's house to just like. Because they're actively investigating him. They know he's lying. They're like, well, the payphone thing isn't illegal, but something at the house has to be like, we will get him on something.

[Julie Betsavale]

But they don't have a search warrant, so they took some pictures, knowing they would have to come back. The whole time they're looking around, she sticks to them like glue. She tells them what they can and can't look at. They actually did ask to look inside the truck in the F150, but she said she didn't have keys to the.

[Patrick Hines]

Truck, which was odd.

[Julie Betsavale]

Follows them on their heels to tell them what they're allowed to look at and what they're not. Like, how is this useful?

[Patrick Hines]

And yeah, it's not because they don't have a warrant, so they can't take anything.

[Julie Betsavale]

And they tip their hand that they want to come back and search the house. It's like, just wait for the warrant guys and then just go back and like, surprise them. Isn't that how warrants work?

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, oh, I don't have the keys to the truck, so you can't look at it. So like she's eyeing them and they're just like doing this very like half assed thing. And also though, there are cameras all over the house. Inside, outside.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the cops play it co about the cameras. They don't say a word. They don't even photograph them. They kind of act like they don't see the cameras. The cameras don't exist because they don't want to tip their hand about the cameras at least.

[Julie Betsavale]

But it's like, I Mean, Tammy's an asshole, but she's not an idiot. It's like, you guys came without a warrant. Of course she knows the cameras are.

[Patrick Hines]

Dumb idea.

[Julie Betsavale]

I guess I don't need to belabor.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a dumb idea.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, like, just wait.

[Patrick Hines]

So I guess what they wanted to do, though, was see what would change between then and the warrant. I guess if they were going to do something, they're like, they're probably thinking they're going to get rid of stuff anyway. Let's get eyes on the house and take photographs so then when they do change things, we can get them on that.

[Julie Betsavale]

But, like, maybe what we should work on is making the warrant process faster. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Look, I know I don't have time. Too many.

[Julie Betsavale]

You're very busy. You're very Busy.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's December 23rd, and they come back with a search warrant.

[Julie Betsavale]

I'm, like, ruining Christmas. It's just like.

[Patrick Hines]

And the cameras that were all over the house are now different. It's an entirely new system.

[Julie Betsavale]

So even though they didn't let on that they saw the cameras, of course Tammy knew that they saw the cameras and they swapped them all out. But the cops are saying even though we aren't going to be able to get the tape that was on those cameras, this still makes you look guilty. Because the cops are saying, if you've got a system that is going to show your vehicle there and you there on the 17th and 18th, that is.

[Patrick Hines]

The strongest alibi available. To tear out that alibi and destroy that alibi and replace that alibi means you don't want people to see what.

[Julie Betsavale]

Was on that camp camera system from the 17th and 18th.

[Patrick Hines]

Why would you destroy your best alibi?

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

The alibi is the cameras are there. Timestamps. I was here all night long, handcuffed to my bed.

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly. And, like, what's the explanation for why you swapped out the cameras, girl?

[Patrick Hines]

But also, I thought your alibi was you were having sex all over town at all the parking lots.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. And the hand. And the husband was handcuffed to the door.

[Patrick Hines]

So what is it? It's like, okay, so if you were there innocently watching TV with your three kids safely at home, then, like, what's the problem? Cause it's not an alibi. It's proof.

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So the story is blown up. It's all over the news. Everyone in town is looking for Heather.

[Julie Betsavale]

By the way, Brianna, like, gets evicted because the news is all over her apartment. I was like, that's not legal. Brianna. And I know that you're young and that you probably didn't know you could fight that, but I'm like, there's either more to that story or that that landlord should be sitting in prison.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, absolutely. So there are T shirts being made and posters and flyers. There's press everywhere. But now we take a hard left, turn off a cliff, because Tammy decides to tell Facebook about the affair. Then this woman is fucking crazy. I mean, and, like, mean and cruel. So she goes, well, it's like, what's on your mind on Facebook? What's on your mind? Well, Sydney cheated on me in the months of September and October. I'm sorry to say these words about Heather. These are Tammy's words. They're not mine. They're really fucking vile.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, cheating on me in the months of October, of September and October with a psycho who has since went missing. And now her crazy daddy is threatening to kill my children. Like, that is just not true, Tammy.

[Julie Betsavale]

And it's also how I know she. I mean, I know this is all a game to Tammy. I guess we've been doing this long enough that I know that, like, she just wants the attention. She doesn't care how it makes her look, but of course, it only makes her look insanely guilty.

[Patrick Hines]

And she goes on, she's like, I could care less saying that I had a boyfriend of my own for the last couple years. Like, Tammy, I know. Are you all right? The answer is no.

[Julie Betsavale]

The answer is. And, like, you know what? Get those kids away from. Like, this is terrible, right?

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, whatever. I had a boyfriend. I don't care. She's slut. Shaming. Heather accuses Heather's family of threatening her children, which I assure you, never happened. Yeah, like, she's missing.

[Julie Betsavale]

She's missing.

[Patrick Hines]

What kind of person are you?

[Julie Betsavale]

I know. And even with this, they don't have enough to arrest anybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, how can you write that about a missing person?

[Julie Betsavale]

I know, because the people who do things like that are not human. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

She's not human.

[Julie Betsavale]

She's not human.

[Patrick Hines]

So meanwhile, the cops can't find anything. There's no body, there's no evidence of a crime. Technically, there isn't enough to charge Sydney and or Tammy with anything until the cell phone information comes through. And then we get a bombshell. The phone records then show at round three, 3:38, she reaches out to Sydney. Only now the phone indicates she's at Peachtree landing. But at 3:42, the phone goes dead. The phone is no longer talking to any of the towers.

[Julie Betsavale]

Just before the order of events, Sidney called her. She got hysterical. She called her best friend, got off the phone with her best friend, mulled over best friend's advice. And then against her better judgment, she called sidney back at 3:38am tells him she's going to the tree landing where her car was found. And then at 3:42, her. Her phone goes dead.

[Patrick Hines]

Her phone is dead. Right. So finally though, in addition to all this, a woman calls in with a tip.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she says, well, look, basically, because remember they live on that big compound that's on a dead end. One way in, one way out. So this woman calls. I love her wherever she is.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, based on where I live and where the Moorers live, their last name is more say that where the Moore's live and where Peachtree Landing is. If that son of a bitch drove to Peachtree Landing, my cameras would have him on video. Because there's one way to get there.

[Julie Betsavale]

And she knows about this, obviously, because she's been paying attention to the news and it's all over the news. That's how she knows to call the cops.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's all over Facebook because Tammy's going viral with her insane, fucking ridiculously mean.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Bullshit statement. So we get the video from her camera, right? And there's a car going to and from Peachtree Landing at 3:30am When Heather is there.

[Julie Betsavale]

So they time it like the car heading towards Peachtree. Now it's dark out and you can't really see the car though they say it looks like the Ford F150 truck. And it would like it time out that they would. This car would get to Peachtree Landing at the time that Heather's phone went dead.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Julie Betsavale]

It's. It's Sydney, you guys.

[Patrick Hines]

It's Sydney. Yes. And Tammy. But this dead end thing is great for us.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it's like, oh, where were you going? You're. There's only one direction you can go right back again.

[Julie Betsavale]

Girl. Pair eyewear is back. I am wearing my pair right now. Aren't they cute?

[Patrick Hines]

They're super cute.

[Julie Betsavale]

I really love these glasses.

[Patrick Hines]

I really love them too.

[Julie Betsavale]

They're Clark Kentish.

[Patrick Hines]

They are totally Clark Kent. Took the words out of my mouth. But there are hundreds of top frames that Pear offers, like Disney princesses and like Mickey and Friends, the Met, Marvel, Star wars, your favorite sports team, like the NBA, NHL.

[Julie Betsavale]

I want to explain what the top frame is. So you get your basic frames, like the ones I'm Wearing. And then the top frames click onto the frame. So they snap. They snap on. So they look like you're wearing a completely different pair of glasses. I honestly don't know what took a company so long to come up with this idea. Because I've been wearing glasses my entire life. All 24 years.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

And like, you get one pair, that's what you have for the year. Not with pair. You got all these different top frames. They can be sparkly, they can be fancy, they can be frilly, or they can be fashion forward.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Betsavale]

And they look like new glasses.

[Patrick Hines]

You just snap them on.

[Julie Betsavale]

That's right. Also, of course, my eyes are a mess. And they come with prescriptions, including progressives and readers, blue light filtering and more.

[Patrick Hines]

They also have a virtual try on. Totally try them on at home.

[Julie Betsavale]

And I want to say they are super affordable. The base frames start at 60 bucks. The top frames start at just 25. Free shipping in the US on all orders. Also free returns and exchanges within 30 days, no questions asked.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, because you gotta, like, live in those glasses for a little bit.

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly. And you can earn points to score dollars off your next purchase with their loyalty program. I am absolutely obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to see the glittery ones. Oh, my God.

[Julie Betsavale]

I have them. They're.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't wait.

[Julie Betsavale]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

Show the world you've got a sharp eye. Go to pair eyewear.com and use code TC obsessed for 15% off your first pair.

[Julie Betsavale]

And support the show by mentioning. Mentioning true crime Obsessed. Sent you in your post checkout survey.

[Patrick Hines]

That's P A I R I wear.com code TC obsessed.

[Julie Betsavale]

Do it. And get those top frames.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Betsavale]

You'll love them.

[Patrick Hines]

Either like the regular Clark Kent ones or the sparkly ones. Fine.

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

You get to decide. So it's February 21st. So now like two months later, there's another search warrant. They go to Sydney and Tammy's house, and the place is rancid.

[Julie Betsavale]

Now, it wasn't like this a month ago or whenever it was that they went without the warrant the first time.

[Patrick Hines]

There's moldy potatoes and rotten meat and garbage all over the kitchen. The kids rooms are covered in trash. The backyard is full of animal droppings. The place is a wreck. That's when we collected the bulk of the evidence. The computers, several shotguns and a handgun. They take the computers, several shotguns, a handgun, and the pickup truck.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Three days later, Sydney and Tammy are both arrested. They're charged with the kidnapping and murder of Heather Elvis. And this is when Heather's family. Family and friends are like, wait, what?

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Murder?

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, that means the cops have something the family doesn't know about.

[Julie Betsavale]

And this is where Morgan says she's like, was just talking about how sad she is and that.

[Patrick Hines]

Like the idea, sister.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes. And talking about, like, how sad this is that something like this could happen to somebody that she loves. And she goes, I'm not naive to what happens in the world, but the world opened up that day and it swallowed me whole.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, she's got to be a writer.

[Julie Betsavale]

She's got to be a writer.

[Patrick Hines]

So these two idiots, cruel, evil people are going to be tried separately, but the guy is going first.

[Julie Betsavale]

And we learned that Sidney hires some high powered defense attorneys. Once again, where is this money coming from? Is there. I mean, maybe there's family money.

[Patrick Hines]

There's got to be. I mean, that compound was probably passed.

[Julie Betsavale]

Down to one of them, I guess multiple. So many trips to Disney World, they got to homeschool the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. And like, how is that homeschooling going?

[Julie Betsavale]

I know you're living.

[Patrick Hines]

That you're letting the house fall to disrepair and it's rancid.

[Julie Betsavale]

Please, I mean, like, please let me believe that the children want to live with Sydney's parents, who at least Diane diamond thinks are good people.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope so.

[Julie Betsavale]

Maybe the kids are living with Diane.

[Patrick Hines]

Diamond for, like, for now.

[Julie Betsavale]

Give her Ashley Banfield. Ashley Banfield. You take the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

So every day she's like, but we caught Jack the Ripper. It's amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

What? But we learn about this. This, like, high profile lawyer. He's folksy. And everyone's like, he doesn't do the big razzle dazzle. You know what? Folksy is also razzle dazzle. Everything is, like, even being soft spoken and folksy in a courtroom. It's all theater. So I don't want to.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes, we need everything as theater merch.

[Patrick Hines]

That's true. So social media is a major part of this narrative because people are choosing sides. I'm like, what side?

[Julie Betsavale]

There's one side that' of the exact same note. What? Because what's happening is Sydney and Tammy's friends are friending on Facebook. Heather's family and friends.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like a targeted harassment. Yes.

[Julie Betsavale]

And I'm just thinking, how does this serve their case?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Julie Betsavale]

How is it legal? And how are they, like, how are they not getting reprimanded in court for. It's just insane. And this was the early days of Facebook and social media, so people didn't really know what to do.

[Patrick Hines]

I guess, like that aside, I don't really care about because what Sidney and Tammy are doing, them and their friends are targeting and harassing Heather's friends and family specifically to say horrible things about Heather.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

This is a missing person. You're on trial. You're about to be on trial for her murder.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

[Julie Betsavale]

And it's like, what's the theory, Tammy? Like what? Like, give me an alternate theory. We know that your husband was the last person to speak to her. And then her phone goes dead.

[Patrick Hines]

Like when you keep running your mouth on Facebook with these big rants about how you had a boyfriend anyway, so you don't care.

[Julie Betsavale]

So, like, where do you think she is? And some we're going to hear her say eventually that she. She's like, I think she's in hiding. What are you talking.

[Patrick Hines]

She's out of her mind.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And also on top of all this, tries to kill Heather's dad.

[Julie Betsavale]

This is the wildest aside that gets 30 seconds of this documentary. Heather's dad is out taking out the trash. Just as I go to back it up, I hear, pop, pop, pop, pop.

[Patrick Hines]

And I felt the vibration in a trash can.

[Julie Betsavale]

Where I was standing was where the bullets would have hit because I had just backed the can up. Shoots like four times at Heather's dad, takes off into the night. And the cops are like, we really can't help you with this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And we're.

[Julie Betsavale]

We really don't know who that was.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Terry's fine. God. But like, what is going on? Like, Tammy and Sydney got one of their trashy friends to try to kill this poor guy.

[Julie Betsavale]

And first of all, I mean, all of it is so crazy. The fact that this doesn't get 10 minutes in the documentary is like, what's the investigation into the attempted murder of Heather's father?

[Patrick Hines]

There isn't any.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy. And now Sydney is crying on the news about how he's the one being harassed. And I'm like, where's this high profile lawyer telling him to shut his stupid ugly mouth?

[Julie Betsavale]

I know. And they're going to say eventually, like, you know, Sydney was never going to take the stand. But he's like, he's trying to get the public on his side. And even our girl Ashley Banfield is like, it's kind of working.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Shut up, everybody.

[Julie Betsavale]

You're not on his side.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, side. There's one side. It's Heather's side.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So. But now we get another massive blow. There's no actual evidence of murder, so the murder charges have been dropped.

[Julie Betsavale]

Explain this to me. Why were they charged before they went to see if there was any evidence? I really have never seen this because.

[Patrick Hines]

I think they thought these people are so insane, they have to be sloppy. I think they thought they were going to find something and they just didn't.

[Julie Betsavale]

And what's wild is that these idiots, these dignats, if you will.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

Were smart enough to pull off the perfect murder. Barely, but you know what I mean? Like, they almost. People almost never get away with it. They dropped the murder. This whole thing made me insane. I'm just thinking about Heather's family. Can you just hold them for a minute while you go through the computers and see if there's anything there before you charge them?

[Patrick Hines]

And there's nothing on the computers, I think, because this wasn't planned out necessarily.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So of course there's nothing on the computers. And you think these idiots know how to use a computer? Probably not. Probably not.

[Julie Betsavale]

Probably not. So they're about as good at it as I am.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, so the murder charges dropped. The kidnapping charge still stands. And they say even that is going to be difficult because we don't have a body.

[Julie Betsavale]

And this is the whole thing that just makes me crazy as I'm like, I look, I want any. Any kind of justice for Heather. Right. But it's like, so you're going to do the kidnap? Like, if I'm the jury, and I know that you're only pursuing kidnapping. But she's not here. What are you saying? Like, if you can't prove a murder, how can you prove a kidnapping?

[Patrick Hines]

The car.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Going back and forth, the harassment.

[Julie Betsavale]

But in. And then what?

[Patrick Hines]

I know it's hard. It's. And everyone's saying, like, this is a hard. This is an uphill battle.

[Julie Betsavale]

We're all on the same side here. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's June 20, 2016, and the trial against the boyfriend, Sydney, Tammy's husband, whatever the he is, piece of Sydney's trial starts this two and a half years after Heather has gone missing.

[Julie Betsavale]

Morgan, Heather's sister, tells this amazing story about going through the metal detector, entering the courthouse, and she's like, there's only one way in and one way out. And she said she was walking in and literally ran. Ran into Tammy, and we physically ran into each other.

[Patrick Hines]

She absolutely froze. She gasped audibly and she looked me in the eye, and then she immediately looked away. She couldn't look at me because at the Time I did still look almost identical to Heather. And I think it shook her. I really do. And it felt good.

[Julie Betsavale]

Tammy gasped. And Morgan is like, it's because I look exactly like Heather. And that was all the evidence that Morgan needed.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Julie Betsavale]

You know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah. So the prosecutors are set out to prove that Sidney lured Heather out of her home to an unsafe space, which is kidnapping.

[Julie Betsavale]

That's the same as kidnapping. That counts as kidnapping.

[Patrick Hines]

And the defense lawyer thinks this is all bullshit. The state didn't give enough details about what happened. They're just trying to prove kidnapping. The explanation ends there, blah, blah, blah.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no crime scene, no body, no struggle, no DNA. And I'm like, there's probably a little bit of reasonable doubt on that jury right now.

[Julie Betsavale]

No question. If I'm on that jury, like, I'm definitely thinking, if you can prove kidnapping, I don't know. The first person the prosecution calls is Jessica, the restaurant manager. Snoopy, nosy Jessica.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julie Betsavale]

Jessica's got a story that is either a bombshell or nothing. Burger. I can't really decide.

[Patrick Hines]

So she testifies that in her opinion, Heather was, quote, most likely pregnant.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And the reason she thinks that is because Heather needed a bigger bra.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She needed a bigger kilt. And Heather took a pregnancy test and there was an error on it. It was inconclusive.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Heather didn't want to take another because, quote, she was in denial.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, I mean, we have no science. We just have, like, I mean, and for lack of a better term, gossip, truly.

[Julie Betsavale]

But. But also potentially a motive, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

For these crazy people because, like, Tammy is so hateful towards Heather.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, she's 20, you're 40. Grow up and get a hold of yourself.

[Julie Betsavale]

And that's the issue. Like, they're going to say that, like, it's, you know, in Tammy's insane mind. It's one thing for you to have an affair with my husband. It's another thing for you to be carrying his baby.

[Patrick Hines]

Based on what I know, which is her own words on Facebook, like, this is definitely about it for her because she can. Like, in Tammy's crazy, evil mind, like, yeah, I'll fuck around with a 20 year old. That'll be fun to ruin her life.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, a pregnancy would ruin Tammy's life, and that's no fun for Tammy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right. And. But so the question is, was she pregnant or did Sydney think she was pregnant? We will get there.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So they also have a forensic video expert up there to prove that it's Sydney's pickup truck that's on camera.

[Julie Betsavale]

This is also either very interesting or a total nothing burger.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, we're doing the dueling experts, which we do a lot where it's like one expert says definitively this, the other one says definitively that.

[Julie Betsavale]

And I don't know kind of what this expert does. And they're saying this is the first time this science, quote, quote science has been used. It's headlight spread analysis. So they. They take all different kinds of trucks and they bring it to that exact same spot at the exact same time of the morning. And they can say that, like, no two trucks have the same headlight spread at that time. And so, like, when they. And then when they do the headlight spread from the surveillance video and they match it to the headlight spread from Sydney's truck, it matches in a way that it wouldn't match any other vehicle. So I'm like, that's either amazing or are we dealing with handwriting analysis? I can't tell.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the defense gets up there and rips the testimony apart.

[Julie Betsavale]

And you've testified that based on your experience that no two vehicles anywhere have.

[Patrick Hines]

The same headlight spread spread pattern.

[Julie Betsavale]

That's my experience.

[Patrick Hines]

Basically.

[Julie Betsavale]

Tell me is this car's got a fingerprint. This spread pattern. Science. Junk science. They're trying to say that cars have fingerprints. And I'm like, I kind of. I'm on your side. Defense attorney a little bit here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I don't know what we need more. Yeah, I still think they did it. I kind of don't need the point. No question.

[Julie Betsavale]

I. Yeah, yeah. No question. No qu. But just like in the, like in. In an effort to get any kind of anything that's going to, like, sway the jury.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is why you need the razzle dazzle of the jury, because you can't. We saw this with OJ you can't just say, like, I'm sorry. Qu. Boring science, facts. Everyone's just going to want to go home.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. You have to. It is theater. You have to give them a little bit love.

[Julie Betsavale]

Don't fit.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't even talk about.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know. If the headlines. God, I was the best.

[Patrick Hines]

The best thing about O.J. is that he's dead is that.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know. Totally. That is really great news.

[Patrick Hines]

It's great news. So Amelia Bethea is state law enforcement, and she's a witness because we have more video.

[Julie Betsavale]

And this is, I think, the one piece of concrete evidence we get in this case.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So when they first spoke to Sydney he said he went to Walmart. Fine, whatever.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like, he admitted going to Walmart that night.

[Patrick Hines]

We have the video.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And we. We see him at Walmart, but this is where we see that he bought a pregnancy test.

[Julie Betsavale]

So to me, this is definitive, that at the very least he thinks she might be pregnant because. And that's a motive.

[Patrick Hines]

At 1:21am he buys the pregnancy test in cash.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

At 1:33am he calls Heather from a payphone.

[Julie Betsavale]

Now, remember, that's the call that Heather then calls best friend Brianna, hysterical about.

[Patrick Hines]

Which maybe Brianna wasn't telling us everything in the phone call, which is totally fine. It's between her and Heather. That's completely fine. But maybe Heather was so upset because.

[Julie Betsavale]

She might be pregnant.

[Patrick Hines]

Pregnancy test. That would, that would make me hysterical.

[Julie Betsavale]

I mean, to me, just the idea.

[Patrick Hines]

In this context, I wasn't making a joke. Like, if you're like, oh, my God, you just want to get away from this guy and now you have to deal with this.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right? Right. And, like, Sydney's on the news now saying that he bought the pregnancy test for his wife.

[Patrick Hines]

Where is his lawyer? I know this is coming out in his trial. Why is he on the news crying and explaining away the, like, how, like, what is going on?

[Julie Betsavale]

And this is where Jack the Ripper Banfield is. Like, he's trying to get the public on his side, and it's working.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julie Betsavale]

I. It's crazy. But if I'm on the jury, all I'm going to say, if I'm on the jury, the fact that he bought a pregnancy test, at least to me, tells me that he at least thought she could be pregnant.

[Patrick Hines]

There's a lot more here than just him cheating.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, like, this is the story going.

[Julie Betsavale]

And if you're looking for some piece of concrete evidence to latch onto, for me, this would be enough.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? So Nancy, the prosecutor is here. She has had it.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

She. And in her closing arguments, she reminds everyone that this is about Heather.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she lays it all out. She said, here's the theory from the prosecution. Nancy says Heather thinks she's pregnant. Sidney buys a pregnancy test. Sydney calls Heather from a pay phone. We see Sydney's car drive to Peachtree Landing.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Heather is at the landing alone in the dark. She's upset. She's calling him over and over again. No answer. The pickup truck is seen on camera going home. And Heather is never seen again.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Who else could have done this? And remember, everyone, we're just talking about kidnapping.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

The charge Isn't murder right now. So kidnapping to me, open shut.

[Julie Betsavale]

And the kidnapping is the luring of her to the area where whatever happened to her happened.

[Patrick Hines]

So now the defense gets up there, and this whole thing is Tammy's fault.

[Julie Betsavale]

The white. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

We start blaming Tammy, which is a.

[Julie Betsavale]

Shock to everybody, because everyone is like.

[Patrick Hines]

Nobody was expecting this little turn. They, up until now, had operated as a unit. Sidney and Tammy, they were operating on that same page. And then this. And that might be a great defense strategy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Blame the other guy.

[Julie Betsavale]

Sidney's defense team is throwing his wife under the bus. And somebody goes, I don't think that's gonna go great at all.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's not. And they deserve each other.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

In hell. So. And what they're saying is, yeah, his truck was there, but how do you know Sydney was driving it?

[Julie Betsavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Tammy has more of a motive than Sydney.

[Julie Betsavale]

Fair question.

[Patrick Hines]

So there you go. Plus, Sydney doesn't have a record we're supposed to care about. And Tammy was the one harassing Heather. Like, haven't you read the Facebook post? Tammy, like, really violently hates Heather. So there's another. Some reasonable doubt. If you're hearing that on the jury, it's like, oh, Tammy does hate her.

[Julie Betsavale]

Well, right. Because, like, it goes to the jury. Bada bing, bada boom. It's a hung jury. Like, they can't convict him even on the kidnapping charge.

[Patrick Hines]

So while they work on a retrial for him. Yeah, Tammy's up next, and we have her trial.

[Julie Betsavale]

And they're saying that, like, with Tammy's trial, they don't even have as much as they had on Sidney. And Sydney's trial ended in a mistrial.

[Patrick Hines]

And Heather's poor family is going through it because we have this first trial, and then there's a mistrial. They know a retrial is coming. And now the trial of this evil woman who's been talking shit about them and Heather for five years.

[Julie Betsavale]

Like, these people just set out to make this family's life miserable, and they did it.

[Patrick Hines]

And Chris Helms is one of the prosecutors, and he's like, I know this is all circumstantial evidence, but you know what? That's okay.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he says, circumstances, circumstances don't change. So the fact that it's Sydney's truck on the video, that won't change.

[Julie Betsavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

The call records, that won't change. And he makes it all about the affair. And that's what Tammy's motive. Because, remember, this is Tammy's trial.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Tammy hated the affair. And the humiliation. But it was the pregnancy that pushed her over the edge.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah. We get this other witness, this guy Jacob Melton, who testifies that Sidney got a tattoo of Tammy's name across his stomach, which we had to see. And I had to throw up. But we, we are told that he was forced by Tammy to get the tattoo as a punishment for the affair.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, well, that tattoo is certainly a punishment.

[Julie Betsavale]

Absolutely. It's just like, what kind of fucked up relationship do these people have?

[Patrick Hines]

They're trash.

[Julie Betsavale]

They're total trash.

[Patrick Hines]

They're insane and they're trash.

[Julie Betsavale]

She loves to punish him. He loves being punished by her. What is going on?

[Patrick Hines]

Well then it's like, if you want to have that fucked up dynamic, leave the Heathers of the world out of it. Totally. She's 20 years old. She's an artist. She has her whole life ahead of her. Keep her out of it. Tattoo your own ugly names on each other's ugly bodies until the cows come home. That's gross. But like, leave Heather out of it.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know, but, but people are so sick that she's just part of the game she's upon. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, that's why Tammy can write about Heather the way she does. Cuz she, like, she's evil.

[Julie Betsavale]

It's all right. And that's it. Like, it was always meant for there to be another person to be a part of this game for Tammy.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So Donald DiMarino is here, he's Tammy's cousin. And he says he's testifying against his cousin. Yeah, Saying that at a barbecue, Sidney showed him this disturbing photo of Heather on his phone. And the judge wouldn't allow him to even describe the photo in open court. Why? I don't know.

[Julie Betsavale]

Nobody knows. But we are be meant to understand that he's saying that his cousin Sydney showed him a picture of Heather's dead body.

[Patrick Hines]

We asked, well, did Sydney say anything? And at that time he said yeah. He told me he took the picture as proof that he had done what they had agreed to do.

[Julie Betsavale]

I did what I said I would.

[Patrick Hines]

Do because he can't describe the photo. But the cousin says in this photo, Heather was not able to talk, she was not able to walk. And they asked him, after seeing that, did you expect anyone to hear from Heather, Elvis, ever again? He says, no.

[Julie Betsavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So when they're like, okay, why does this horrifying photo even exist? He says, to prove to Tammy that Sydney did, quote, what they had agreed to do.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now this photo, to be fair, I'm just saying what we learned. The photo was never recovered from anyone's phones or anyone's computers, right?

[Julie Betsavale]

So no one's ever seen it. He's just saying it was there. And then on cross examination, this guy totally.

[Patrick Hines]

He just falls apart.

[Julie Betsavale]

He falls apart.

[Patrick Hines]

They catch him in a bunch of lot. Like, they play all audio of this guy telling his mother that the photo doesn't even exist. And, like, he's caught lying to his mom. But he was on the stand testifying that he never lied to his mom. It's just a mess. He's, like, twitching. All his credibility is shot, right? So Tammy takes the stand, and now suddenly she wants justice for Heather. I mean, since fucking when?

[Julie Betsavale]

The Tammy on the stand of it all. I was like, as she was walking up there, I was like, what is this gonna be? What is this gonna be?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it's so unfair. The cops botched the case. This has ruined her life. She hasn't been to Disney World in a really long time, you guys.

[Julie Betsavale]

She hasn't been able to home school her. Her children.

[Patrick Hines]

Poor Tammy. But now the prosecution gets up. So, like, the defense, when the defense is up there, it's all like a sob story. I want justice. Oh, my God. Now the prosecution gets in there, and Nancy is gonna cross examine her. So she changes her whole attitude. And this is when the real Tammy comes out. And I'm like, girl, they can see you.

[Julie Betsavale]

And this is what like. And Nancy skillfully gets her there. Cause I was like, you're gonna get mad Tammy, right? And we get mad Tammy because.

[Patrick Hines]

But Im like, she's mad Tammy immediately. Because Nancy's like, oh, you know, like, introduces herself or whatever. And Tammy goes, yeah, I know who you are. You've been making my life m. Oh, hey, can I ask you some questions, ma'am? You are on the stand.

[Julie Betsavale]

The judge is like, that's not how. And it's like, how do.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, all of this counts, right?

[Julie Betsavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

We see you. We saw you put on a fake face. I want justice for Heather. Two seconds ago, like, we are seeing all of the judges watching all of this. It all counts.

[Julie Betsavale]

And so is the jury. Like, the jury, like, everyone hates you.

[Patrick Hines]

Nancy's like, girl, whatever. Let's go through the horrifying Facebook post, shall we, where you disparage a victim and make false accusations against her family.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

The bitches in hiding is a direct quote from one of Tammy's posts talking about Heather.

[Julie Betsavale]

Then Tammy calls Nancy by her first name.

[Patrick Hines]

I was just being a jerk at the time. I guess Nancy. That's all I can say. Have we ever met outside of this courtroom?

[Julie Betsavale]

I don't think so.

[Patrick Hines]

She didn't know when we got on a first name basis.

[Julie Betsavale]

I'm just wondering when we got on a first name basis.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Nancy is out for blood. I and out come the text messages. Tammy is texting some kid.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Saying, when do you turn 19? And gross. I'm not gonna say.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Tammy's like, look, Nance, I'll admit it looks bad, but I'm not sitting here judging you for your sex life and calling you a murderer. I mean, a kidnapper.

[Julie Betsavale]

And everyone's like, I mean, it's just unreal.

[Patrick Hines]

Did everyone hear that?

[Julie Betsavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

She's not on trial for murder. She's on trial for kidnapping. And what do you mean, like what, a slip of the tongue?

[Julie Betsavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Tammy. Also, cue Tim Curry and Clue. What do you mean, murder? So Nancy, the prosecution gives her summation, and in one final blow to Tammy, she invokes Disney.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And compares Heather to Snow White.

[Julie Betsavale]

Ah, yes, yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Tammy's the evil queen.

[Julie Betsavale]

The evil queen.

[Patrick Hines]

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all? Which Nancy actually says in court. You know, Tammy's seething. I haven't been to Epcot in three weeks. So the jury goes off to deliberate. It takes them three hours to come back. Tammy's found guilty of kidnapping. She gets 30 years for kidnapping, 30 years for conspiracy to kidnap. But she's serving them at the same time. So. Yeah, just 30.

[Julie Betsavale]

You know, it's not enough. It. It would never be enough. But 30 years is a good long.

[Patrick Hines]

Time for someone like her who definitely hasn't taken care of herself. And it's not like she's going to be living in her till her 90s.

[Julie Betsavale]

And it's not like she's going to be making pals in prison. I can't imagine she's going to be like Miss Congeniality.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Or she's going to be the. The one, the bully everyone's scared of and still be head of the gang.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, God, probably. I mean, prison, my whole thing is like, you're going to miss your kids, Tammy.

[Patrick Hines]

No, she doesn't give a shit about.

[Julie Betsavale]

Anything thought about her kids. She doesn't care.

[Patrick Hines]

So now it's Sydney's retrial and everything is as the last time. We have the same witnesses, the same evidence, except. Yeah, Remember the cameras at their house the first time the cops went? They saw the cameras inside and outside. But they didn't have a warrant, so they couldn't do anything. And then the next time they came, there were brand new cameras.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The cops got footage from the new system and they get something very valuable.

[Julie Betsavale]

Two days after Heather disappeared, there's a video of Sydney and Tammy and their in laws deep cleaning the truck, deep cleaning for hours. And then about 30 minutes into cleaning the truck, Sydney starts a burn pile.

[Patrick Hines]

Over in the side yard and starts.

[Julie Betsavale]

Burning some of the rags that they're cleaning with to burn the rags they used on the side of the house.

[Patrick Hines]

And everyone's like, rags are reusable. That's the whole point.

[Julie Betsavale]

And even if you weren't gonna reuse them, you would just throw them. You wouldn't burn them because they're evidence. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is kind of all the jury needs in addition to what they already had. Cause it was basically the same case, except we have this great new footage.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So he was found guilty. Took 90 minutes for them to come back. And I'm like, thank God. Same charges as Tammy. Kidnapping, conspiracy to kidnap. Oh, and obstruction of justice.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So he gets 30 years and everyone's ending being like, I'm really thrilled they're in prison, but where is Heather?

[Julie Betsavale]

Where is Heather?

[Patrick Hines]

And they don't know.

[Julie Betsavale]

They're maintaining their innocence. So it's not like they're like. It's not. Just tell them. I mean, you can.

[Patrick Hines]

This is where Keith Morrison could do another sweet flying fuck moment. Because that's when he said it.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

When we were talking about the Lori Valo thing for the $20 patrons. I was like, I wanted Keith to do that with her. And then it hit me in real where it's like, no, he needed information about where the body was in the sweet flying fuck room.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Lori, Val is not going to ever tell him anything. Like, Keith was really trying to get information. Keith.

[Julie Betsavale]

I know, I'm sorry.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure you're busy, but, like, if anyone could get it out of them, maybe he could.

[Julie Betsavale]

I just. My brain is just turning over and over in my head, like, where did. Like, there's no trace of what they did with her. No trace.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, but they for sure did something.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, it's heartbreaking because she, again, we just keep saying she was an artist. She was like a beautiful soul. Everyone loved her. Her sister, I, is such an amazing representative of her. And just like, it's so sad. It's like, just keep the Heathers of the world out of your fucked up Shit, Yes. And don't have kids. Yeah, leave them out of it too.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, my God, girl. We did Disappeared in The darkness, an I.D.

[Patrick Hines]

Mystery.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, my God. It was nice to get the gang back together. It was good to see Diane Diamond. It was good to see Ashley. Diane, like, they work so hard to give good id. They really like, they articulate. They're real. Everyone is back to trying to get that intro outro to the commercial line. Everyone comes.

[Patrick Hines]

Editor is on point.

[Julie Betsavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, fam. Join the discord if you want to hang out with us more and you're not going to the Facebook. Or do both of them.

[Patrick Hines]

Do both.

[Julie Betsavale]

Do both. Join us on the Patreon over 450 full ad free bonus apps to download a bitch. The second you sign up, you can go to listen to that Lori Valo thing on the hero bell. That's wild over there. What are we doing next, girl?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. We're doing Devil on Trial on Netflix where they try to say that someone was possessed by the devil and that's why he committed a gruesome murder.

[Julie Betsavale]

Oh, we got one of these. It's been a minute.

[Patrick Hines]

It's been a minute. It's on Netflix.

[Julie Betsavale]

All right.

[Patrick Hines]

It's insane. So buckle up, everybody.

[Julie Betsavale]

All right, fam, Stay tuned for the trailer for that. And we love you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we love you. We'll see you next time.

[Julie Betsavale]

All right, Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye.

[Julie Betsavale]

When I was 11, he was possessed by the devil.

[Patrick Hines]

A bizarre murder trial gets underway tomorrow.

[Julie Betsavale]

The devil made me do it. I said, why am I here? And he said, well, you just killed your friend.

[Patrick Hines]

The nature of our defense has never.

[Julie Betsavale]

Been used in the United States is demonic possession. But the tale really begins at the end of this driveway where the Brookfield couple, whose 11 year old son began acting strangely. You can feel something watching you. We didn't believe him at first.

[Patrick Hines]

Diva said this entity spoke. He told David he wants his soul today.

[Julie Betsavale]

Ladies and gentlemen, the ghost hunters, Ed and Lorraine Warren.