428: Scamanda

Summary

True Crime Obsessed - Episode 428: Scamanda Summary

Title: Scamanda
Host(s): Julian Penzavalli & Patrick Hines
Release Date: May 8, 2025
Description: In this gripping four-part series, the hosts delve into one of the most audacious frauds they've ever covered—Amanda Riley's elaborate scam of faking cancer to exploit her wealthy church community and friends for money. With a blend of humor, sass, and heart, Julian and Patrick unravel the layers of deception, betrayal, and manipulation in this true crime saga.

---

Introduction to the Scamanda Series

Julian Penzavalli [00:21]:
"This is Scamanda episode one."

Julian and Patrick introduce their Patreon-exclusive four-part series, Scamanda, highlighting it as one of the craziest and maddest stories they've tackled. They express their frustration with individuals faking serious illnesses for personal gain.

---

The Genesis of the Scam

Patrick Hines [00:34]:
"I'm really sick of these jerks faking cancer. I'm over it."

The scam centers around Amanda Riley, a seemingly beloved member of the Fox Hollow community. Amanda, a mother and wife, gains the trust and sympathy of her church and friends by portraying herself as a terminal cancer patient.

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Amanda's Integration into the Church Community

Unnamed Speaker 2 [00:50]:
"Everyone knows she was being accused of faking cancer."

Amanda marries Corey in April 2011 and quickly becomes an active, charismatic member of the Franciscan Community Church (FCC), a mega church similar to Hillsong with around 5,000 congregants. Her involvement includes managing church social media and participating in large-scale events, all while presenting a façade of vulnerability and illness.

---

Manipulating Trust and Exploiting Generosity

Unnamed Speaker 5 [03:34]:
"This is an absolute nightmare."

Amanda leverages her position in the church to solicit donations under the guise of battling cancer. Through her blog titled "My Story, Our Journey," she gains overwhelming support, raising substantial funds (e.g., "the community raised $100,000") from well-meaning congregants and supporters like Rebecca, a wealthy friend who donates $500 monthly.

---

Red Flags and Suspicious Behavior

Patrick Hines [00:58]:
"Why would somebody fake cancer?"

As Amanda continues her deceit, inconsistencies start to surface. Friends like Lisa Berry begin to notice discrepancies in Amanda's stories—such as the questionable legitimacy of her medical conditions and the odd behavior of her husband, Corey, who remains conspicuously absent during her moments of supposed crisis.

Amanda Riley [06:25-06:42]:
"Amanda was probably 24, 25. She was younger than the moms in the class... Amanda C. Reilly is the faker."

Lisa, sensing something amiss, confronts Amanda but feels powerless to address the situation directly, leading to mounting tension and eventual estrangement.

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The Climactic Confrontation

Unnamed Speaker 4 [28:24]:
"I need to get some water. So she exited the church and on the way back, fainted while simultaneously urinating on herself."

A dramatic moment occurs when Amanda faints in church, leading to an outpouring of immediate support without any medical intervention, further solidifying her deceitful image. This incident heightens suspicion among close friends, especially Lisa, who begins to piece together the layers of Amanda's manipulation.

Amanda Riley [29:10]:
"The pregnancy is reversing the disease. They just wanted to be in pretend mode."

Amanda's continuous fabrications, including a miraculous pregnancy that supposedly cures her cancer, escalate the scam. Lisa decides to cut ties, realizing the depth of Amanda's deceit.

---

Unveiling the Truth

Unnamed Speaker 1 [48:22]:
"There is a 30 year old woman in Silicon Valley, California, who is now claiming to have stage four blood cancer... This person was adamant that they knew that what she was saying was false."

The hosts reveal that Lisa Berry becomes the anonymous tipster, uncovering Amanda's fraudulent activities. Through investigative efforts, the truth about Amanda's manipulations is exposed, leading to widespread betrayal and financial loss for those she deceived.

Amanda Riley [49:08]:
"My name is Lisa Berry and I am the anonymous source. It's time. I'm proud of it."

In a pivotal moment, Lisa publicly acknowledges her role in unveiling Amanda's scam, bringing closure to the series.

---

Fundraising Exploits and Financial Deception

Julian Penzavalli [34:37]:
"This one time during a Sunday service, the pastor brought Amanda and Corey up on stage... People are dropping 50s, hundreds, twenties. Not a cult at all, though."

Amanda orchestrates various fundraising schemes, including campaigns at local restaurants like Chili's, where a portion of bills is donated to her under false pretenses. This not only exploits the generosity of her community but also ingrains her deeper into the fabric of the church's philanthropic activities.

Patrick Hines [36:37]:
"It's Lisa's her birthday party... Amanda and Corey had just met Steve. Lisa and Steve are devastated because not only were they really, really close..."

These financial exploits are meticulously planned to maximize donations, exploiting both emotional appeals and the trust inherent in close-knit community structures.

---

The Aftermath and Lessons Learned

Julian Penzavalli [50:36]:
"We're not doing it. Bam. All four episodes are available right now and ad free on the Patreon feed."

The series concludes with reflections on the pervasive nature of scams within trusted communities and the importance of vigilance. Julian and Patrick emphasize the need to trust one's instincts and the devastating impact of deceit on personal relationships and community trust.

Patrick Hines [50:55]:
"Don't fake cancer. And listen to your gut."

The hosts urge listeners to remain cautious and discerning, highlighting how even well-intentioned communities can fall victim to sophisticated scams.

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Notable Quotes

• Patrick Hines [00:34]:
  "I'm really sick of these jerks faking cancer. I'm over it."

• Amanda Riley [29:10]:
  "The pregnancy is reversing the disease. They just wanted to be in pretend mode."

• Lisa Berry [49:08]:
  "My name is Lisa Berry and I am the anonymous source. It's time. I'm proud of it."

• Patrick Hines [50:55]:
  "Don't fake cancer. And listen to your gut."

---

Conclusion

In Scamanda, Julian and Patrick provide a comprehensive exploration of Amanda Riley's deceitful manipulation within a wealthy church community. Through meticulous investigation and engaging storytelling, they uncover how Amanda exploited faith, trust, and generosity for personal gain. The series serves as a cautionary tale about the vulnerability of tight-knit communities to charismatic frauds and the importance of skepticism and vigilance in safeguarding against such deceptions.

Listeners new to Scamanda will find themselves enthralled by the intricate web of lies, the emotional toll on the victims, and the ultimate revelation of the truth. Julian and Patrick skillfully balance humor and heart, making this episode a compelling addition to their true crime repertoire.

Listen to Scamanda exclusively on Patreon for the full, ad-free experience and over 450 additional bonus episodes.

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Disclaimer: All names and events portrayed are based on provided transcript content for summarization purposes.

Transcript

[Julian Penzavalli]

McCrispy strips are now at McDonald's. Tender, juicy and its own sauce. Would you look at that? Well, you can't see it, but trust me, it looks delicious. New McCrispy strips now at McDonald's. Hi, Julian Penzavalli.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Fam. We're breaking into your feed to bring you another feed drop from our Patreon feed.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is Scamanda episode one.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I've never seen people more up in arms about anything in a very long time time.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm really sick of these jerks faking cancer.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm over it. I feel like we just did this. Oh, we did. Like, I'm so done.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No, it's really crazy. This is one of the craziest stories I think we've ever covered. This is maybe some of the maddest I've been in a long time.

[Patrick Hines]

It's. It's infuriating.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah. So, fam, here's the deal. This is a four part series. We covered all four episodes on Patreon. All four episodes are available right now and ad free. It's where you get all of our other Patreon content. Covering what? Like what, what, what's the other stuff?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. We're doing Fox Hollow right now. The Fox Hollow murders.

[Julian Penzavalli]

We're about to do what?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it's called A Body in the Snow. It's about the death of John o' Keefe. But it's the Karen Reed trial.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Every person I know is from Massachusetts because that's where I grew up. So everyone is asking me if we're. Because the trial is happening right now. So everyone's asking me if we're covering it. I'm like, we're doing it starting in like a week. I promise.

[Patrick Hines]

I promise. Better or worse.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But Anyway, it's over 450 full ad free bonus apps to download a binge right now, including the entire Scamanda series. Go listen and get mad with us. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I have to say, as mad as we are, we have a bunch of amazing women here, truly really getting shit done. And also a really cute dog named Mr. Munch who's very brave. We discuss it at length.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And Nancy, one of the main journalists here, we got an interview with her coming up in a couple of weeks on the Patreon feed. So if you want more of that, it's going to be there.

[Patrick Hines]

She's going to tell us something.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She sure is.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm excited.

[Julian Penzavalli]

All right, fam, we love you. We'll say a quick goodbye on the way. Out. I know I say this all the time, but I don't think I've ever hated anybody so much as.

[Patrick Hines]

Look, she has tough competition, honestly. The episodes are titled Stage one through four. I know it's not Episode one. It's Stage one. That is insane.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

That is insane behavior.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Hi, Julian Bedwali.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, God. New day, new series.

[Patrick Hines]

New series. Who dis?

[Julian Penzavalli]

I watched this, like, four in a row while I was on the road. I could not put it down.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, here's the thing. Full disclosure. I did not listen to the pod.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Neither did I.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is all new information.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I tried to listen to the pod, but for some reason, I couldn't get into it. But this series is amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

Pretty riveting.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, it's more fake cancer, everyone.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Which is just like, wow.

[Patrick Hines]

By the way, in case you're new to Scamanda.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

More fake cancer.

[Julian Penzavalli]

More fake cancer.

[Amanda Riley]

Amanda Riley was a mother, wife, speaker at her church.

[Patrick Hines]

Everybody loved her.

[Unnamed Speaker 2]

She got diagnosed with cancer.

[Unnamed Speaker 3]

I heard the words, you have stage three blood cancer.

[Patrick Hines]

We thought she was God's gift.

[Amanda Riley]

When Amanda told me she had cancer, I was so devastated.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

A beloved young Christian woman fighting a battle undeserved.

[Patrick Hines]

We gave our hearts, our prayers.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

Everybody put their hands over her and said, heal this woman. Oh, God, heal her.

[Unnamed Speaker 3]

I'm thankful that I have cancer because I am now surrounded by the right people in my life.

[Amanda Riley]

There was just something inside of me just saying, this isn't right.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

And then all of a sudden, it went dark.

[Patrick Hines]

She was a liar.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Why would somebody fake cancer?

[Unnamed Speaker 2]

Thousands of people threw money at her.

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

I started donating $500 a month. $3,000, 20,000.

[Amanda Riley]

The community raised $100,000.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone's Lives has been touched by cancer. And that was something Amanda tapped into.

[Unnamed Speaker 6]

What surprised me is the lengths that she went to fake the cancer. There's all these pictures of her in the hospital with IVs, tubing.

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

I could see a nurse in the background.

[Unnamed Speaker 6]

The information that Amanda gave didn't make sense. These things are not adding up. I don't think she's sick.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

Everyone knows she was being accused of faking cancer.

[Amanda Riley]

I could not believe the level she had taken this scam to. This is beyond disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

How can a mother do that?

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

This is an absolute nightmare.

[Patrick Hines]

She hurt tons of people.

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

I've never felt so betrayed.

[Patrick Hines]

She ripped apart my family. I'm sorry. I'm still shaking. Is this normal?

[Unnamed Speaker 6]

Why would somebody fake such a horrible disease? It was only a matter of time until Amanda's Whole world came tumbling down.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I was like, ha, you're lying and you're getting caught. This is over. But it wasn't. Not even close.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right at the top, we meet Charlie Webster. She was the host of the Scamander podcast. Yes. And she tells us that Amanda's whole story takes place around the San Francisco Bay. This is important because this is where.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, rich people have super, super rich people. The area is extremely rich. So Amanda C. Reilly is the faker.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She grew up in California. She married a guy named Corey. He had a daughter named Jessa from a previous relationship. When I tell you we will get into all of that. Hold tight.

[Julian Penzavalli]

We don't get enough of Cory in this documentary. Part of it is because throughout we get this interview with Amanda, which is from the church.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's not for this documentary. I don't know how they got their hands on it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean by requests or whatever.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's amaz. Amanda sitting down, talking to the camera about. So it feels like she's a part of the documentary, but she isn't.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And I want to know what.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure she hates that.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I hope she hates it, but do you think she's watched it 100, like 100 times?

[Patrick Hines]

She has notes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So Lisa and Steve Berry were Amanda's friends.

[Julian Penzavalli]

We love that. Love.

[Patrick Hines]

Their daughters were in the same class at school. They became friends. And Amanda the faker and her husband were like the new family in town.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Amanda Riley]

Amanda was probably 24, 25. She was younger than the moms in the class, and she was very excited about being a stepmother to Jessa. Corey seemed very devoted to Amanda. And we introduced Corey and Amanda to other families because they were new. Amanda would say, you look just like my mother. You are my doppelganger mother.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Amanda calls Lisa the friend, her doppelganger mother. And I'm like, whoa. And I was like, that's such a fucking backhanded compliment.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It is. But Lisa's child, harmed by it, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

Until she wasn't.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I totally. I was like, I don't know about that. If I had like some young 25 year old kid who has a kid Daisy's age, be like, you're like my daddy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So Amanda and Corey get married in April of 2011.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Stupid wedding on the coast on a cliff. Lisa and Steve are in the wedding.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Now, here's the thing. Cory and Amanda got married by justice of the piece. They were going to have this big fancy Wedding. We've been so burned by these scammers that I was convinced that this big wedding was never going to happen. And that, like, Lisa And Steven, here's $25,000 for your wedding or whatever. The wedding actually does happen. And I'm like, I think the last real thing that happens in this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, probably, you know, so they were very close friends. We got it. Documentary. We got this for 15 minutes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Everything was perfect for my understanding from the podcast. There's a reason why. One of the reasons why Lisa is so prominent.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't say it, don't say it, don't say it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But it's why they're really driving home, how close they were.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And also we meet Rebecca, who was one of their friends.

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

Amanda's beautiful and she's vivacious. I honestly was so, like, enrapt with Amanda that I offered to help photograph her wedding. I worked with Amanda's mom, Peggy. Peggy had told me a bit about Amanda, and she's like, you'll love Amanda. She's totally someone you would be friends with. You're just gonna love each other. And I felt that way.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I offered to photograph their wedding. Isn't this an area where we think business and pleasure should not mix?

[Patrick Hines]

I agree. We were. I feel like we talked about this.

[Julian Penzavalli]

In another documentary where I was like.

[Patrick Hines]

Don'T hire Lisa Frank.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Where I was like, don't hire your friend. If they were gonna be your wedding, they can't also work. You can't be like, oh, you were going to be there anyway. Photograph my wedding.

[Julian Penzavalli]

When it comes to the. It's photograph, like, this is the thing that some people take so seriously. And, you know, Amanda took the fucking wedding photos really seriously.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And, like, you should. I mean, that's your job, if that's what you're getting paid to do. It's too murky. It's too.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It seems like it went okay in this instance. But can't you just see? Do we use this term bridezilla? Like, I can just imagine.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda's a nightmare.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Nightmare. Like, Amanda on her wedding day, I got. Cannot imagine.

[Patrick Hines]

I thought you were gonna say Amanda on her best day is a nightmare. And that is also true. Like, she. Yeah, but I'm sure. Like, did you offer to photograph, like, what was the actual.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Or was it Amanda being like, oh, golly, I wish someone would photograph my wedding? Like, she's so manipulative.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's such a scammer that I wonder how that actually went.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I just can't Imagine her not micromanaging the living shit out of, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

So a year later, Amanda gets pregnant. Jessa is her stepdaughter.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And now Amanda's having a baby.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So soon after this, Amanda and Corey become very active members of the family community church, the fcc.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Barf, barf, barf, barf, barf.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a mega church. Someone's like, oh, it's like a Hillsong.

[Unnamed Speaker 7]

It's a church that has close to 5,000 congregants. They either come in person or watch online.

[Unnamed Speaker 2]

It's classified as a mega church, like Hillsong or Lakewood Church in Houston. Thousands and thousands of people attend these services that are more like events. They have preachers on stage, guest speakers, music, and guitars.

[Patrick Hines]

It was like going to a concert.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But for the Lord, like, in and of itself. It's just, like, so, like, I know that, like, not everybody covers the documentary the way that we did, but, like, that is scary.

[Patrick Hines]

It's scary. Like, there's too big, too grand.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And we know that they scientifically engineer the music to make you feel things.

[Patrick Hines]

That's, like, not the point.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Not the point.

[Julian Penzavalli]

There is a store in New York City called Old Good Things, and they've got a couple of locations, and I used to go there all the time, and one day I was in there, and I'm like, this music is awesome. Oh, you told me this. I pulled out my Shazam. It was Hillsong. It was, like, indoctrinating me as a.

[Patrick Hines]

And they never saw you again?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Well, because I went over to the counter. I'm like, are you guys really playing Hillsong? He's like. He literally said, if you don't like it, you can leave.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, bye.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And I was like, I will be leaving. Goodbye.

[Patrick Hines]

Now everything is a major event at this megachurch, as they all are. Lindsey is a church member.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

The first time I went to fcc, I walked in there as an atheist. The doors open. There was fog on the stage. There was this band. It was dim. It was exciting. People were jumping up and down. Everybody had their hands up praising something, loving each other, just generally being happy. It was almost as love was raining down, like confetti. People were like, hi, welcome.

[Patrick Hines]

She was in because she heard the.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Scientifically proven method of their music.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, everyone's hands were in the air, literally.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's like Lindsay, like, they get you with the music.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what they wanted. And the fact that she was an atheist. Lindsay is the, like, the ultimate boss, like, of who they want to convert.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She Used to be an atheist, and now she's.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I am not coming for your God. I am not coming for your prayers. I believe in God, and I fucking pray. It's the megachurch scientific.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I'm saying. It's not the point.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm all about your spirituality.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally. Just understand when you're in a cult is all I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all I'm saying.

[Julian Penzavalli]

You know, I know people who were in Hillsong. I know them. I am a close friend of somebody who is only not currently in Hillsong because she doesn't live here anymore. It's a cult. And I've, like, had this fight with her.

[Patrick Hines]

Really?

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

What's her. What is her response?

[Julian Penzavalli]

She's like, no, it's just church. I'm like, no, it's a cult. And she's like, no, it's just church. And I'm like, no, it isn't.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, to say for. I'm sorry, to say it's just church is just. Just. It is definitively untrue.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah. She doesn't listen to our podcast, so it's okay. You can say whatever you want.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I'm just saying, like, you just say, oh, it's church, but don't say, it's just church. No, it's not.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's not.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like. And they do it that way. That's the point, is that it's, like, not your grandmother's church. Like, that's the point of it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I am Lindsay. If I went to one service, she used to try to get me to go with her before I knew it was called Hillsong, but before I knew what Hillsong was.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I down when it was, like, in Irving Plaza.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes. If I had gone to one service, I would have been converted. I'd be Lindsay.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. Let's move on. Amanda's very popular at fcc.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

She's very active. She's running their social media. By 2012, Amanda is a mother.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Jillian, do you want to go to Hillsong?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's not. It's the last thing, but it's really great.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I love going there. I'm a congregan.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no. And again, like, I love spirituality. I am a very spiritual person. Have your God have your prayers, like you were saying. But, like, don't join a cult.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know, I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm. I'm not the insane one here. Anyway, so it's 20. Amanda's a mother. Stepmother. She's super active in the church. Everything is amazing.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Everything's coming up Amanda.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Until she's diagnosed with cancer. It's Hodgkin's lymphoma.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No, we know this is a lie. That is not a surprise.

[Patrick Hines]

No, let me say something.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

My cousin had non Hodgkin's lymphoma.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick Hines]

It is fucking awful. It was aggressive. He was 18 when he had it. Oh, it was a hard.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Still with us.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick Hines]

Fine. He is now. Fine. He's married. He has healthy kids. He's healthy. Healthy.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But at the time, throughout this documentary, we get people sprinkled in who were like. Like, I know, from cancer. My wife died from eight years of battling breast cancer. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Is devastating.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But that's my big question is, like, how does she know what to say for symptoms? How does she know when she's speaking in front of the church that she's not going to say something? That somebody's going to be like, wait, that's not what happens.

[Patrick Hines]

Because you can't say that's not what happens. You can't say that. That's why it's a scam that people can do. And so much of it is being shared online.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You don't know her. So, like, a lot of it is just the sympathy money. And then no one can say that. Feels weird, right? But, like, that's what we love. Your friend is asking you to do this thing. But that's why it's like, it was devastating to see him go through that. So for someone to lie about, of course, is absolutely insane.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I mean, my mom survived stage four breast cancer.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's horrifying, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

So no one can believe this. This is so awful. They're gutted for Amanda. It's so sudden. It's super aggressive.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Sorry. One more thing. Are we going to start to live in a world where we're not going to believe people who have cancer? Is that where we're going?

[Patrick Hines]

Welcome, girl. No, I know. I'm not that cynical yet. Yeah, but. Oh, for sure. Have I been, like, really?

[Julian Penzavalli]

The thing about you, and I'm sorry, this is just the truth. You always know before everybody else. You just always know before everybody else.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? I'm good at patterns. I'm good at recognizing patterns. So it's not fun. I know it's not fun, but it's also not this, like, mystical, magical thing. It's just sort of like, huh?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Jillian just becomes the person in your life that you're like, well, I don't think she's right. But she probably is because she always is. So I'm just gonna say. I'm just gonna agree with her. Like, that's just what ends up happen.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not. I'm not like, a bully.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No, you're absolutely not a bully. I'm giving you the compliment. I'm telling you the truth. Like, I just don't want to live in a world where somebody has to be able to, like, not feel like they can tell their friends that they have cancer. Because people aren't going to believe.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I think that. I mean, you know, we'll get to it. Because there are some things where I'm like, that's insane, Amanda. Like, we need to stop this.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Well, because it starts with, Amanda starts a blog.

[Patrick Hines]

Even her blog title is insufferable.

[Unnamed Speaker 2]

And she headlined it very simply, My Story, Our Journey. She wanted the blog to be a place where family and friends could be updated.

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

Amanda wanted to be inspirational and she wanted to help others. A lot of people started reading her blog. I mean, it blew up pretty quickly.

[Patrick Hines]

The support has been amazingly encouraging, overwhelming, and wonderful. My story, our journey. But do you see, this is what I mean about. I'm good at spotting patterns.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It starts with that.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

My story, our journey. We're all in this together.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Let me ask you this question. Do you think she's doing this for the money, for the attention, or to become famous?

[Patrick Hines]

All three.

[Julian Penzavalli]

All three.

[Patrick Hines]

All hands down.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She went in with a plan. You think?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't think this is her first scam.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

I think she's been doing this on some level her whole life. And I think her mother's involved.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, shit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So. But it's all very detailed. Right. It's all about sharing her story.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And I've known other people who've done this where it's like, it's a place for family and friends to go for updates so you don't have to cross your every uncle and be like, here's what's going on now.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. And that, like, again, she's doing what works.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the blog blows up very quickly.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Very quickly.

[Patrick Hines]

She's doing what it takes to make that happen. She's consistent. She's constantly posting. She's giving people the information they want. And, like, other people with cancer or other people who have family members with cancer. Because sometimes if you're so sick, you can't really keep up a blog like this.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But it is a resource for others, and it is about the awareness, because again, there's no cure for cancer.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

We gotta keep talking about it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease or whatever. So we need the awareness. Everything is expensive.

[Julian Penzavalli]

People need to find community. People need to, like, find other people who are going through the shitty things that they're going through.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's taking very real things that do work and using it for her lives.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right. So Lisa, remember the friend that, like, Lisa of Lisa and Steve, she starts reading the blog, and she says, at.

[Amanda Riley]

Some point, I started reading her blog and she's posting pictures, and I just was surprised seeing all the attention that she's getting for it. There was just something inside of me just saying, this isn't right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it's like, very long posts, lots of photos. Like, she was making dynamic and compelling content for people who needed it.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think that's important.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And Lisa, we should say, is a little bit older, so, like, she just has a little bit more life experience.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

There's just something about this isn't sitting right.

[Patrick Hines]

And now, like, there are photos from the hospital looking super legit. If you're not looking for anything right now, Stephanie Davis is a supporter. She was very into the blog. Her mom was into the blog. Penny is also a supporter. She's a cancer survivor, longtime American Cancer Society volunteer. I'm saying this because there were people who were in this world who were big and vocal supporters of Amanda, and that's what she really needed.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah. And people just are drawn to it for whatever reason.

[Patrick Hines]

12 months of testing, 8 months of chemotherapy, and today is my day of bliss. We won.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She's suddenly cancer free.

[Patrick Hines]

Suddenly. This marks a very special week. As of Friday, I've been officially labeled as being in soft. This is so wonderful. Get out the confetti.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Penny is like, we were rooting for her, and I'm like, that insane Tyra Banks. Like, I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I just will go watch that clip.

[Patrick Hines]

That she was insane.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I mean, that clip is pretty. Like, Tyra's insane or the model.

[Patrick Hines]

Tyra is insane.

[Julian Penzavalli]

We were all really.

[Patrick Hines]

I am waiting.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

For the documentary about America's Next Top Model.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Outrageous abuse, gaslighting, all kinds of phobias.

[Julian Penzavalli]

There's a reason why RuPaul's Drag Race is the only reality show like that still on the air.

[Patrick Hines]

Like the blatant racism.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Fat phobia. I mean, they had models in blackface and they did. Yes. That show was a fucking fever dream. I'm waiting for the Documentary.

[Julian Penzavalli]

There will be one with all the.

[Patrick Hines]

Models talking about how abusive it was and how they're, like, all doing real estate now and not in the modeling industry, because that. But Tyler was insane for that.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But Everybody go watch RuPaul's Drag Race because it is so good. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

God. So the American Cancer Society is rooting for her. The church community. Oh, God. We wouldn't be here without the church community.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So. But this is what Charlie, the podcast was saying. She's like, you've got the online community, the American Cancer Society, and the church community. And I just made the note. Amanda's really put herself in a position to scam a lot of people with money. You know what I mean? The church is rich. The online community is rich. The American Cancer Society's got deep pockets.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, she's got it baked in with the church.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm calling it like I see it. That church is a client.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She has an audience. She has a stage to stand on. And they gave it to her and she took it with both hands.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And they're all just rich people that go to that church.

[Patrick Hines]

So Josh is a church member. His father in law is the pastor of this FCC thing. He's friends with Amanda and her family. He knew about the blog.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Amanda and Corey became good friends of this family. And I'm like, of course they did.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course they did.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Of course they weaseled their wound by design. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Josh, wake up.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Amanda starts, quote, giving testimony at this church.

[Unnamed Speaker 7]

She would start giving testimony from the stage. She could sit there in front of a room of over a thousand people, give her testimony.

[Unnamed Speaker 3]

I was so sick. I was hospitalized for weeks at a time. I couldn't get out of bed.

[Unnamed Speaker 7]

And she would captivate us every time.

[Unnamed Speaker 3]

It got to the point where I was kind of talking about it and we were praying about it, and we weren't really sure what to do.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me tell you, she looks as healthy as a horse.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know she looks like a healthy.

[Patrick Hines]

Person on that stage, but here's a question. Where's the husband?

[Julian Penzavalli]

That's what I'm saying. Where is Cory in all that?

[Patrick Hines]

Let's talk about the husband. Where is he? So Vanna is another church member, Vanna Ruiz. And she's like, everyone knew Amanda as the girl with cancer.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, vanna, girl, spill it. You can tell we don't see Vanna very much in this documentary.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She does a lot of Gillian Pensvalli shifting in her chair.

[Patrick Hines]

I know she sits weird like me. I Love it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But I just love it. She's got shit to say. She's just, she's going to say, what.

[Patrick Hines]

Do you have to say? Because for her to be like, everyone knew her as the girl with cancer.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, because Amanda did that.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like that was. She's like, hi, I'm Amanda, I have cancer. I'm dying. How are you again? She's looking as healthy as can be.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I mean, I'm just saying we have to hear this line in every single episode.

[Unnamed Speaker 3]

We're angry with God. We try to hide from God. Don't stop talking to him.

[Patrick Hines]

If you're angry, tell him. She was so positive. She had charisma.

[Unnamed Speaker 3]

If you're going through something, share it with him. Give it to him. Don't ignore Jesus because he is always there and it would be unfortunate if he brought you your miracle and you weren't watching.

[Patrick Hines]

What is she in the mob?

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Real nice set of kneecaps you got there. It'd be a real shame if someone came and bashed them with a baseball bat. Well, but then like, I was like, what are you, what is that a threat?

[Julian Penzavalli]

The guy sitting on the stage with her makes this like, woo sound like he, like, like she's just at the most genius thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone jumps to their feet. I know she has everyone hook, line and sinker. And I'm sorry, these are people in those four walls who are ready to be hooked, line and sinker.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And I'm, I'm one of them. If I had gone to that church service with my friend one time, I'd be like, my friend Amanda has cancer.

[Patrick Hines]

But it' like the people are conditioned, I know, to very readily and happily accept what is being spewed to them from that stage.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Because these are people who like, believe in goodness and they just want to do good and they want to help. And I understand all of that. It's just, it's what we were saying about the pastor, like, and his family. Now when you have a brand new family to the church that is trying to be your best friend, you should know to question that.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just like this was a perfect captive audience for her. It's not a mistake. She was at this church totally. She was like, let me see the rich, richest suckers I can find.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Where are they? At the FCC church. Now, Lindsay, the former atheist, says the.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

Miracle in itself, that she could be so terminal and so alive at the same time, led me to believe that she was anointed.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But also, Lindsay, listen To yourself. Like, I think it's what you're saying about the conditioning. Because when Lindsay said that, it really hit me. I'm like, girl, you are ignoring your instincts. The other way of saying that sentence is, it's curious that she could be so terminal and so alive at the same time.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, Lindsay says a lot of things like this. Oh, my God, these four episodes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Lindsay is so grateful to be converted.

[Patrick Hines]

I wonder if she's a little bit of a victim of editing here. I wonder if she's saying things as she felt them then. Maybe because she's sitting here now.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, I'm calling her Lindsay, the former atheist. Don't come for me. I have a ton of friends who are atheists. Like, it's just an identifier. We're meeting a lot of people in this talk. But she really.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Atheism. I don't know. I mean, I totally accept that people are atheists and that's totally fine. But, like, I want to believe that I'm going to see you again.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not going to tell people how.

[Julian Penzavalli]

To be, but I. Atheism is very brave, as they always say, because it's just like, okay, damn. Like, really make good use of your time here because. Whoa.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm also never gonna argue with you, so don't even try. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I'm not saying you believe what you want to believe, but I just like, I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The worst kind of atheist is someone who wants to talk about how they're an atheist.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

And that goes with, like, every single person about every single thing. But, like, I'm not arguing with you. I don't care.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right. I totally. Like, wait, just real quick, what do you think happens when we die?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

I really don't know. I think if I were to, like, label it, it would kind of be more like an agnostic, I guess, where it's like, I'm super spiritual. I have my things that I do. I believe in it. We're not alone here. But I couldn't tell you really what I think. I mean, I hope something really beautiful and nice, but no, I don't think we're like worm food and that's it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No, no, we definitely go somewhere awesome.

[Patrick Hines]

Because I believe that there are people who've passed over around us, around me. So we gotta go somewhere and I have to believe. It's a beautiful place.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is what faith is. It's comfort.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Ye.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's like, it's nice to think that I'll see people again and that, you know, I feel like they're around me, their energy.

[Julian Penzavalli]

You're like, I don't know that we're a human form or whatever it is, but there's got. There's something. Tyler, the medium says we definitely go.

[Patrick Hines]

Somewhere and all the dogs go to heaven.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So. Totally. Anyway. Yeah, but I'm just saying, Lindsay, when you're looking at a person and you're saying, like, it's so amazing that she can be so terminal and so alive. Like, listen to what your brain is actually saying. Your. Your brain is telling you. This is weird.

[Patrick Hines]

I think she was saying it like, this is what we were all thinking. Because the point is, the fact that Amanda was still alive was actually making people feel stronger about their faith.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, they were super into the church because of her. Look at what God has done for this woman.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it was mutually beneficial for the church. And then it's like, maybe the church was in on it because everyone's making a one ton of money.

[Julian Penzavalli]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

So two things happened to Amanda at the same time. God, it's going to sound like I'm saying it wrong. I'm not. It's so unbelievable. You'll be like, jillian, check your facts.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Wait, what?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, this is not. This is what she is claiming is happening to her.

[Unnamed Speaker 3]

I'll never forget the doctor's words. He said, you, cancer's back and you're pregnant.

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

When I went down to do her second maternity shoot, I remember talking to her and she's like, I know, it's such a miracle baby. She said, I had an IUD because I was going through treatment and I got pregnant with the IUD while doing treatment.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a miracle baby, to say the least. Also, we need to stop using the word miracle. None of these are miracles. They're just lies.

[Julian Penzavalli]

They're just lies.

[Patrick Hines]

They're unbelievable.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No way I should be able to have a baby. Somebody should be able to say, like, what's going on here?

[Patrick Hines]

No, you just got pregnant.

[Julian Penzavalli]

You just got pregnant.

[Patrick Hines]

You didn't have an iud.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Nor cancer.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And look again, the hindsight of having the documentary handed to. I get it. I know that, like, you know, these people are. Why would anybody be so cynical as to not believe their friends?

[Patrick Hines]

Because the point is, like, what kind of asshole is going to be like, miracle baby, my ass. You're going to be like, wow, congratulations.

[Julian Penzavalli]

You really wanted to even have cancer.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, that's why these People do it. And that's why she went to the community. She went to, like, please. So it's fall 2013. We're with Maha Mahasti, the babysitter.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Mahasti feels to me like the first one to call bullshit.

[Patrick Hines]

She's apprehensive at best. Her side eye is perfection. She's literally like.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I said, amanda, what's happening now with you being pregnant?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my doctor says I could stop.

[Julian Penzavalli]

The chemo and radiation or anything that is for my cancer till the baby's born, and then we could start again. I said, amanda, Amanda, this is your life. You have another child to think about.

[Patrick Hines]

This one is not here yet. She says, no.

[Unnamed Speaker 2]

They said, it's gonna be safe, so.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm gonna do that.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And Mahasi's like, bitch, isn't that gonna kill you?

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, no, no. The doctor said, I can stop any and all cancer treatments until my baby is born and then start back up again again. Also, what she's doing is hipaa. No one can ask a doctor a single question.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But Mahasti's like, I don't think that's how any of this works.

[Patrick Hines]

No, girl. But Amanda, here's the other thing. When people like this get away with. They take an inch, they'll take another inch. So Amanda's updating everyone on the blog. Can you believe my miracle baby? Oh, my God. She met with a bunch of experts. This is all very possible. She's so excited. Here's my baby bump. And then another twist.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah. Stage four. Once again, she's stage four and pregnant.

[Patrick Hines]

February to come, five hospital stays and 32 doctor's appointments.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Appointments in January alone, we're suddenly back at church, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God.

[Julian Penzavalli]

This is. This is where Lindsey's about to have her moment.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

I was only two seats down from her before she stood up, and I heard her say, feeling dizzy. I need to get some water. So she exited the church and on the way back, fainted while simultaneously urinating on herself. Everybody ran up to her. The core leadership ran up to her. They put their hands over her. Everybody did. They put their hands in the circle and said, heal this woman. Heal her. Oh, God, heal her.

[Patrick Hines]

Nobody calls 911.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Nobody calls 911.

[Patrick Hines]

Start praying over her and putting their hands on her.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Steal her. She doesn't deserve this. Instead of giving, the first thing you do when someone faints is give them space and call 91 1. They do the opposite. They don't call 911. They swarm her, and everyone is touching her. I hate this woman, but can we please not do this?

[Julian Penzavalli]

No. And Lindsay is saying she just got. She fell to her knees and commanded God to heal.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda, Lindsay was an atheist a week ago.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She heard one song that tricked her brain.

[Patrick Hines]

She saw the fog and was like.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Holy shit, God is real. God is real.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I'm saying that I'm not coming for Lindsay. No, I'm just saying, saying think about how compelling it must. I know, because atheists fucking love being atheists.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I'm telling you. I'm saying this in all seriousness. If I went to one service, I'd be in hook line and say, I.

[Patrick Hines]

Don'T know about that, because my heart.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Is open to it. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I'm like them.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to be annoyed that there were so many people there.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Maybe I wasn't getting enough attention. Probably I'd be on the stage giving my testimony in a week. I'd be the Amanda.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I'm saying.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But I understand that these people are just good people. I'm not coming for them. But it's like, can everyone open your goddamn eyes for five seconds?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm going to say something here. And I'm not saying it as a negative thing. I'm not saying it as an attack. I'm not saying it as a criticism in any way. But I hate my shirt. Yes. No, I'm saying we all. And we all have to be, like, honest about it.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

If you are in that church, you're looking for something.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes, sure.

[Patrick Hines]

That's why people find solace in faith and prayer. Because you're sort of looking for something.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Even meditation or community or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, I'm not saying that as a bad thing, because I am one of you total. But like, all people, we're in this church. You know what I mean?

[Julian Penzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, she has the most captive audience of people who are looking for reasons to believe I'm alive. I be cancer twice. I'm alive. I have this miracle baby. She's lying to them, but they're going to believe her because they need to.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And she knows you're going to believe that.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I'm saying. No accident that she wants. She probably vetted 10 churches.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, what an asshole.

[Patrick Hines]

Patterns.

[Julian Penzavalli]

We can't even have our mega churches.

[Patrick Hines]

No. We cannot tax the churches.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. April 2014. Amazing. Amanda's second son is born.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He's a very healthy baby boy.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Again I ask, where's the husband? Let's Talk about the husband.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Everyone is like, cory must be so amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

He's all over the blog. At least he's not here. And he'll never be in the documentary. No, but he's all over the blog. He's the husband of the century. Yeah, he's amazing. He's a hero. He's her rock.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But this is now Rebecca. This, like, breaks my heart. Rebecca's the photographer. Remember, these people all have money. They live in a really wealthy area.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Unnamed Speaker 5]

And she's like, Amanda had had to quit jobs due to her medical condition. And I knew that money was really tight with everything they were going through. And I just continued to ask Amanda, like, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? Because when it's your health and it's life or death, like, nothing should be out of bounds because of cost. I can remember getting emails from Peggy. She was the one that told me about the website, and I donated $500.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And so we learn about Amanda's website.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I mean, there's a website where you can just click the $500 and why don't you go ahead and make it monthly, Rebecca?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. Well, I just want to say one more thing about Cory.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's Rebecca who says, when I picture Corey, I see him standing behind Amanda.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that's a really. It's like when they have kids draw, and it's like, why is that person so much bigger than that other person? What does that mean psychologically? But when he's. When she's picturing not next to Amanda. Right behind.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think that's really important because now you're right, though. Amanda's raising money for donations for the babies and the cancer. Pat.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And, like, Rebecca is like, her dear friend, and Rebecca gives her $500, and Amanda does the thing that a scammer would do where she blows Rebecca up on the blog. And now Rebecca's like, I'm gonna go ahead and make that monthly.

[Patrick Hines]

So Rebecca, again, $500 every month. Happy to do it. Automatic payments. Friends are donating. The church is donating a lot of money. They're doing events for her. People are literally throwing money at her feet. They are lining up to give her money. They're fighting over who gets to give her the most money the fastest.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's the only time the church has ever done.

[Unnamed Speaker 7]

This one time during a Sunday service, the pastor brought Amanda and Corey up on stage.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

There was that infamous fog machine, making this a very beautiful, angelic, mystical, special experience.

[Unnamed Speaker 7]

That pastor felt led in that moment during that service to do a love offering. The church's size. If each family gives a dollar, it can be significant enough to be a huge blessing to the Riley family.

[Julian Penzavalli]

People are dropping 50s, hundreds, twenties.

[Patrick Hines]

Not a cult at all, though. Throwing money on the stage for, like, definitely not weird. And it's definitely not a cult.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Can you imagine you're Amanda and like, you're like, this wasn't even part of the plan. Mortified bonus.

[Patrick Hines]

Any. Any normal person would be mortified.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Mortified.

[Patrick Hines]

So now. But Angie, like, Angie. Angie is a friend and fundraiser.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She was constantly donating. She was constantly promoting Amanda. Angie would go to the bank and take out a shit ton of cash and post it online and be like, this is for you, Amanda. Amanda. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's weird.

[Julian Penzavalli]

They're doing it for the proximity to the celebrity.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? I love donating. I love helping people. But there's something that feels really culty and it's by design, by Amanda's fault and a little bit the church, if we're being honest. Because now it's become a competition. Who is supporting Amanda the most? Who can win the Amanda support, How much? And that is all tied to money.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I gave like, you can't support Amanda without giving money. So now it's an internal competition amongst themselves. Shelves orchestrated by Amanda, the puppet master.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And like, when you are the scammer and it goes that well, you must have that moment of like, even I couldn't have forced him to be this easy.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. You know she has also scammed Chili's.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Hashtag team. Amanda has been busy as ever.

[Unnamed Speaker 4]

On June 24th, if you eat at any of 4 Bay Area Chili's, 20 of your bill will be donated to.

[Julian Penzavalli]

To our family. There is no excuse.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, where does it end?

[Julian Penzavalli]

My question is, how does this affect the servers? That's all I could think about in this moment. I would love to know is that 20%, the tips. Are the servers giving their tips away.

[Patrick Hines]

Because they eventually say thanks to the servers.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And I know all I could think about. Or is that 20% being deducted from the bill before the tip? Like, all I could think about was like, you fucking asshole. Like, cheating Chili's and cheating the servers, like, unconsciously. I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So meanwhile, though, remember Lisa and Steve, the first friends? They've gone. No contact with Amanda and Corey.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And we'll get the timelines. A little confusing, but we will understand why in a minute.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, something Major happened because Amanda was saying Lisa was like, our mom.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So what they're not telling you here is that this is four years since they were friends with Lisa and Steve. Time has passed.

[Patrick Hines]

Right now, Lisa is stalking Amanda's blog.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, I get an email.

[Amanda Riley]

It said there's this fundraiser at Chili's, and 20% of the proceeds of all four Chili's restaurants are going to go to Amanda Riley. I was blown away. The year she told me about the cancer was 2010. Well, now she's been diagnosed for the very first time in 2012. I was so, so sick.

[Patrick Hines]

She gets wind of Chili's, and she's like, not on my watch.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Not on my watch.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Because she's like, this was my friend from four years ago that I knew something was going down. But what is this Chili's thing?

[Patrick Hines]

So Lisa's like, okay, something's wrong. Something's going on. And I'm like, something really went down.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She's known it from the beginning.

[Patrick Hines]

So we go back to August 2011, four years earlier.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It's Lisa's birthday party.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So this is still back when Amanda and Corey had just met Steven. Lisa. And they've just become really good friends.

[Patrick Hines]

They're besties. Yeah. Their daughters are in the same class at school. They're super good friends. Now it's Lisa's birthday party. This is another pattern. Everybody. Amanda and Corey go to the party, but at first, they weren't sure if they can make it. So it's like, always drama, always high stakes, always attention. And it's like, we don't know if we can come. Oh, I hope you can come. And then they come, and it's like, yay.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yay.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

Exhausting. So that night, they go to the party. First, they couldn't come. Oh, my God, you're here. It's amazing, you guys. They came.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yay.

[Patrick Hines]

So that night, Corey tells Steve, Cory the faker's husband.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Tells Steve the friend that Amanda the Faker has stage four cancer. She is dying.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Six to 12 months to live.

[Patrick Hines]

The worst it can be right now. Lisa and Steve are devastated because not only were they really, really close, like family, they had just gotten married. Like, they can't believe. Like, oh, this young couple, they've got.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Their whole life ahead of them. What is this young girl gonna do without her mother?

[Patrick Hines]

Right? But Steve's first wife died of breast cancer.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's like, after eight years. So he's like, I've been there. I know what that's like. It is devastating. Like, they just can't believe that their dear, dear friends are about to go through this. And now Lisa and Steve are amazing because they're like, no, we're gonna help. They quote, available. Anything they can do. Especially with Jessa, because remember, Jessa and their daughter are friends.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Lisa says she's stage four.

[Amanda Riley]

She's dying. Where her parents. How come they're not coming around? I thought they were close. And I actually asked her at one point, you know, where are your parents? You're so sick, and where are they? And she said, oh, they're just really busy.

[Julian Penzavalli]

This is where the red flags start coming up for Lisa. Because Amanda turns around and she's like, oh, no, no. They're just really busy.

[Patrick Hines]

Life is getting in the way. They can't come, right?

[Julian Penzavalli]

And Lisa's like, bitch, you're dying in six to 12 months.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, your mom's not gonna drop everything for six months. Like, really? Then on top of that, Lisa's like, okay, like, I'm not gonna get into the family dynamics.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Like, people, whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Like, that is just unfortunate. It's another horrifying thing, I guess, that's happening to Amanda. Then Amanda asks Lisa to pay for a, quote, life saving blood test, whatever the hell that is. It doesn't exist. It's fake.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah, totally. So, but Lisa says she's like, it was really awkward. And Steve makes this point later, like.

[Patrick Hines]

Asking a friend to pay because she didn't ask to. Don't remember, this is four years before the church and the donation thing.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

She is going to Lisa's house over, like, tea.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And being like, girl, I'm dying. I can live if you pay for my life. Saving blood transfusion.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Give me a number. Lisa. Are we talking $200? We're talking 5,000.

[Patrick Hines]

I would guess about $5,000.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah. And Lisa, like, she's like, it was very awkward, but I didn't feel like I could say no.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Lisa's gut is screaming at her. She knows something is off, but what if she's wrong?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

What if something is not off? What if it's on?

[Julian Penzavalli]

You can't even question. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

You're a monster for not giving the money for the life saving or questioning.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Like, hey, can I have some proof that you actually have cancer?

[Patrick Hines]

But that's the point, right?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what they want you to feel. And also, scammers can make themselves a victim of anything. And it's not just cancer. And it's not just money.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes they want your emotions. Sometimes they want your time. Sometimes they want your loyalty. Like, scammers can do this for anything.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Just be aware it's not just cancer in the church, Right?

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But then Lisa's already. The red flags. Her gut is yelling at her.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She's a smart lady.

[Patrick Hines]

She's already, like, something's off, but she's trying to convince herself she's wrong. Because, one, that would be horrifying. Right?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And two, she doesn't want to be a monster, but she's like, what is the best case scenario? Either my friend really does have cancer, or she's lying about it. Like, it's bad both ways.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Then there was the time at the pool date.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Lisa, she's doing a lot of, like, picking Jessa up from school. That's the other thing. Knowing, like, what was Amanda actually really doing when she was pretending to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Picking her feet up, having a cocktail, 100%, like, doing the other scam. God knows what that was.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Date night.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So Lisa picks up Jessa from school one day to bring her over to her house to go swimming. And Amanda. Amanda comes over, like, later in the day. They're all in the pool. Amanda jumps in the pool, and she.

[Amanda Riley]

Kind of turned to the side, and she had a very small, round band aid behind her ear. So I asked her why she had the band aid behind her ear. I was curious. And that's when she told me that she had just had fluid drained off her brain in the hospital. So she was coming from the hospital, and she swam underwater after having fluid drained off her brain.

[Patrick Hines]

They are in the pool having a lovely afternoon, where just hours prior, Amanda was getting her brain drained.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And now she's doing handstands and playing mermaid in the pool.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So Lisa is like, I know that this is not right. And she starts going back through all of the stories that Amanda had told her that, like, didn't add up, but, like, she didn't really make a thing of in the moment.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Like, she had a long story about how she bought her house. House. But Lisa then found out that the house was a rental.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She said there was going to be a bridal magazine covering their wedding. That never happened. Oh. And she's working on a PhD in clinical psychology at Stanford.

[Patrick Hines]

Stanford, absolutely.

[Julian Penzavalli]

But never goes to class.

[Patrick Hines]

Lisa is done.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, now I know that she's a liar.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she goes, I want Cory and Amanda out of Our lives now.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Because think about it. They've given them money, but they've given them emotional labor and physical labor. She's like all of the crying that she was had done over it. The fact that they're dying in six months and Steve's wife had died of breast cancer. They knew that when they made up.

[Patrick Hines]

This lie, they were probably having very real conversations about the roles that they're going to have in her kids lives.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yes, yes. 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

A huge thing to ask of someone. And it's a major life change for people. Like, they really gave a lot in every sense.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah. Like, it's also like Lisa feels like she can't confront her. She just wants her out, out.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's true. When something like that happens, there's no. You can't reason with these people. You just got to get them out of your Life.

[Julian Penzavalli]

That is 100% the smart thing to do.

[Patrick Hines]

So Lisa stops answering Amanda's phone calls.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Amanda starts calling Lisa's niece, lying about how she's pregnant. And she wants Lisa and Steve to be the godparents. It's just so desperate, transparent. But Lisa doesn't take the bait.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No. But Amanda does keep calling. And eventually Lisa says she's like, I realized I was gonna have to deal with this one way or the other at some point.

[Patrick Hines]

She's got to pick up the phone to have the. To end the conversation.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Because right now it's like an ellipsis. She's got to put a period.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And Amanda's never. She's insatiable.

[Amanda Riley]

So I answered the phone and she said, I'm pregnant. And I said, I thought you were dying. And she said, oh, the. The pregnancy is reversing the disease. They just wanted to be in pretend mode. They were never going to admit that they did anything wrong. I hung up the phone and I have not spoken to her since I was dying.

[Patrick Hines]

I was dying, but the pregnancy is actually reversing my cancer.

[Julian Penzavalli]

The pregnancy is reversing the cancer.

[Patrick Hines]

This is again, she then changed the story to a more quote, believable one. Four years later.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

But this is her dress rehearsal.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

This is round one of this lie of how she's going to be pregnant and have cancer at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now she worked out the kinks with leave Lisa, and then she really was ready for primetime. Four years later.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I wonder what Amanda thought when she saw Lisa in the documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

So now Lisa. So all that happened four years ago. Then Lisa hears about this Chili's fundraiser.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So it's four years later that this friend that she knows is a scammer is now she's seeing, like, doing. She's read the blog. She sees all the money she's raising. The Chili scam.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And she's seeing that, like, oh, my God. Chili's is, like, the tip of the iceberg.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

People were giving her money, donating signed memorabilia, like, real, true fundraisers that she.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Knows Amanda's just selling and keeping the money.

[Patrick Hines]

And Lisa goes. And then I saw that fight song video.

[Unnamed Speaker 2]

To raise money for Amanda and to get her story out there. They made a video and used Rachel Platten's fight song, which is such an empowering anthem and lyrically speaks to what Amanda was going through.

[Patrick Hines]

It's an awareness music video, we're told, where some lovely couple from the church, once again generous, generously offered to do this big thing for Amanda.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda's like, mugging for the camera while the song plays. She is. This is no joke. Ripping up a piece of paper that has the word dying printed on it.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So just to paint a picture, someone put, like, went to their computer, typed the word dying on a word document, printed it out, handed the piece of paper to Amanda, who is now gleefully ripping it up in front of a body of water.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Would this not push you over the edge 100%.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And she's getting people from all over the country to be in the video.

[Patrick Hines]

She's, like, frolicking on the beach, sitting by the fire. The whole family's in it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Lindsay goes. Not to brag, but I. I'm in the video. I was like, lindsey, Lindsey, girl, you're not hearing yourself.

[Patrick Hines]

If Kyle Chandler shows up in this video, so help me. Like he did for Anatomy of Lies. I'm like, kyle Chandler.

[Julian Penzavalli]

If they got coach Matthew Morrison, they got Matthew Morrison, who's garbage. Enough.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, this video is meant to be a tearjerker, but it's just insufferable. I can't even look at it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Insufferable.

[Patrick Hines]

So no contact. Lisa is incensed. She has had it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She's had it again.

[Patrick Hines]

Please watch it. She's ripping up.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

A piece of paper with the word dying on it. Horrible. It is in such poor taste.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I feel like real people with real cancer was like, what the is that?

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So no contact. Lisa's incensed, and she goes, amanda wanted it to go viral. Well, I went to YouTube and I gave it a thumbs down, which was.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She's like, that's all I could Do. Which I didn't even know you could do that on YouTube.

[Patrick Hines]

But then she calls her friends because her friends give them more thumbs down. God damn it. And I'm like, yes.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So now, though, they're thumbs down in the video. I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

In the next blog, Amanda is complaining about people who don't support her and people have abandoned her. And cut to Lisa, who's like, I know. It was those thumbs down that got her. It was the down votes that totally got.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I love that Lisa knows she got to Amanda.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know, because who's thumbs downing a cancer video?

[Julian Penzavalli]

100.

[Patrick Hines]

Lisa, I wish I would have known you. I would have thumbs down the.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I know me. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I would have made other accounts. Thumbs down.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

I love everyone I knew. So let's go to Los Angeles, California.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

With Nancy Muscatello.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Which you cannot tell me that's not the last name of the mouse from An American Tale, Fievel Mouse.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's like Fievel Mousekawitz. Right? I can't talk about five.

[Julian Penzavalli]

I'm five Volscatello. I'm like, I know, I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

She's an investigative producer for TV, and in 2015, she's working on Crime Watch Daily.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's actively looking for scam stories. Yeah, she's not looking for like any story she thinks is interesting.

[Julian Penzavalli]

She wants scam stories.

[Patrick Hines]

She's scams. So she's posting in all these different communities online. Like, do you or someone, you know, been scammed? Yeah, she's really actively looking for people who have stories now. Dog alert. Nancy has a little dog.

[Unnamed Speaker 1]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

He's giving a little bark. His name is Mr. Munch. And we get so much of him next week. He is the star of next week's episode.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Is that right?

[Patrick Hines]

We see little certificates that he's gotten.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No way.

[Patrick Hines]

He gets his own closed captions. He's barking.

[Julian Penzavalli]

What do you get dog certificates for?

[Patrick Hines]

For being like a brave best boy. Something happened. It's from the vet. I took a screenshot in the timestamp. Don't.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

His name is Mr. Munch.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

Heavily featured in episode two.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, I can't wait.

[Patrick Hines]

Tight. But someone. Yeah, someone.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Someone. Some unnamed, as yet unnamed person sends.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda's block to Nancy.

[Unnamed Speaker 6]

Yes, I believe that I have a story that you might be very interested in checking out. There is a 30 year old woman in Silicon Valley, California, who is now claiming to have stage four blood cancer. This person was adamant that they knew that what she was saying was false and that she didn't have cancer. So that intrigued me. There was a lot of information to go on.

[Julian Penzavalli]

So apparently the tipster is a major part of the podcast, and in the podcast, she's anonymous.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, it's gotta be Lisa. Right?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right, it's gotta be Lisa. I mean, it's gotta be Lisa.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially because of the thumbs down and all this stuff. I'm like, wa. Lisa's the only person here who saw through Amanda's.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's got from the beginning. It's either that or the babysitter.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And I'm hoping it's someone we know because I, like, want to take this journey with Lisa.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Amanda Riley]

My name is Lisa Berry and I am the anonymous source. It's time. I'm proud of it. I'm proud that I'm the anonymous source.

[Julian Penzavalli]

That's what.

[Patrick Hines]

It's Lisa.

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's Lisa. So it ends with Lisa announces herself as the tipster in the documentary. Like, that's the big thing.

[Patrick Hines]

She goes, it's time. I'm proud of it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Now imagine being Amanda, you know what I mean? And watching this documentary. And like, I fucking knew it. I fucking knew it.

[Patrick Hines]

Because what Lisa ends up doing, like, knowing what Lisa knows, Amanda's stomach must have been in her butt because all of, like, the things she tried to pull with Lisa, she then, like, changed and edited and perfected and then would end up using on other people.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

My question is, what the hell was she doing in between those four years?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, where are other. I wonder if after this documentary came out, if there were people who came forward saying, like, oh, cause I can't see her not scamming for four years.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Totally. And I want more of her. Like, at least in the Anatomy of Lies, we learned about Elizabeth, whatever her name is, like, her childhood.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Penzavalli]

And what she was like before I went, like, was Amanda doing this her whole life?

[Patrick Hines]

I think she was. And I think her mother was in on it.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, Mr. Munch, we're coming for you next week. This little puppy.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Oh, I mean, thank God, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, what else. What is there to say?

[Julian Penzavalli]

It's in. It's absolutely ban. It only gets crazier and crazier. Is this the one where she fainted in church and pissed herself?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And they all ran to her and just started touching her instead of giving her air.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Like, she, like, had to prepare to piss herself at church. Like, she had to go to church that day knowing she was going to.

[Patrick Hines]

Do committing to the bit big time. Could never be me. I could never do that.

[Julian Penzavalli]

No. I could barely be like a public restroom.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Well, that is pissing your pants then, right? Anyway, could never be us for a great many.

[Julian Penzavalli]

We're not doing it. Bam. All four episodes are available right now and ad free on the pace. It's where you'll get the other 450 full ad free bonus apps to download the second you sign up.

[Patrick Hines]

That's right.

[Julian Penzavalli]

We love you. Thanks for checking this out.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, and we'll, you know, don't, like, lie.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Stay safe. Don't fake cancer.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Don't lie. And if you. If your gut is like, then listen to that.

[Julian Penzavalli]

You know what? That's right.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I'm saying?

[Julian Penzavalli]

Absolutely. We're not 11 anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't fake cancer.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And listen to your gut. Okay, love you. Bye.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Okay, bye.

[Patrick Hines]

See you later. Mr. Montreal bites from gp.

[Julian Penzavalli]

Follow for more hot tips.