430: Biggest Heist Ever

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed – Episode 430: "Biggest Heist Ever"

Introduction

In Episode 430 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Biggest Heist Ever," hosts Jillian Bethel Valley and Patrick Hines delve into one of the most audacious cryptocurrency heists in recent history. Released on May 20, 2025, this episode unpacks the intricate details of the Bitfinex hack, the peculiar behaviors of the perpetrators, and the complexities law enforcement faced in bringing them to justice. The hosts blend their signature humor and sass with a thorough analysis of the case, making it both engaging and informative for true crime enthusiasts.

The Heist: Bitfinex Hack of 2016

The episode begins with Jillian and Patrick introducing the case of the Bitfinex hack, which occurred in 2016. Hackers infiltrated the online cryptocurrency exchange Bitfinex, stealing approximately 120,000 Bitcoins valued at $70 million at the time. Fast forward to the present, those Bitcoins had appreciated to a staggering $4.5 billion, making it one of the most significant heists in the cryptocurrency domain.

Jillian Bethel Valley (00:51): "We are talking about the biggest heist ever. It's on Netflix."

Unorthodox Criminals: Ilya Lichtenstein and Heather Morgan

Contrary to the image of seasoned, intimidating criminals, the duo behind the heist—husband and wife Ilya Lichtenstein and Heather Morgan—are anything but. Jillian and Patrick describe them as "wacky" and "cringy," highlighting their bizarre antics on social media, including rap videos under the pseudonym "Razzlekon."

Patrick Hines (02:20): "They are these wacky cringy individuals who are posting these totally insane videos on social media while trying to pull off this incredible crime."

This unusual behavior puzzled investigators, as such antics are atypical for individuals involved in large-scale financial crimes. The hosts emphasize the mismatch between the magnitude of the heist and the criminals' immature personas.

Investigation Challenges: Tracing Bitcoin and Money Laundering

The hosts discuss the complexities involved in tracing stolen Bitcoin. While blockchain technology allows for the tracking of transactions, the anonymity provided by digital wallets complicates efforts to pinpoint the culprits. Bitfinex's chief communications officer, Shiel, emphasized the severity of the breach, noting it as a "very, very big deal."

Patrick Hines (11:33): "Even I can track every bitcoin transaction across the Internet forever. So, like, what good does it do you to actually steal bitcoin?"

Ilya and Heather attempted to launder the stolen funds through various means, including purchasing Uber and Amazon gift cards. However, their lack of a comprehensive plan and the public nature of cryptocurrency transactions ultimately led to their downfall.

The Twist: Ilya’s Father and National Security

A significant revelation in the episode is the involvement of Ilya's father, Eugene Lichtenstein, a renowned hacker who had previously worked undercover as a Secret Service informant. This connection introduced an element of national security, adding layers of complexity to the case.

Jillian Bethel Valley (43:47): "Ilya's father is Eugene Lichtenstein, a famed hacker. This could have implications we’re not fully aware of."

Authorities discovered that Eugene had deep ties to hacking communities, which may have facilitated Ilya and Heather’s ability to execute the heist. However, due to the sensitive nature of Eugene’s past and his role in national security, many details remain undisclosed, leaving the full extent of his involvement shrouded in mystery.

Arrest and Plea Deal: The Culmination of the Heist

The pursuit culminated on February 8, 2022, when federal agents finally apprehended Ilya and Heather in New York City. Despite their initial refusal to cooperate fully, a pivotal moment occurred when a spreadsheet containing Bitcoin wallet passwords was discovered, serving as the "electronic smoking gun."

Patrick Hines (52:28): "They escaped with $4.5 billion, but now they've been caught, and this spreadsheet is the key."

During the plea deal, Ilya admitted to being the primary hacker responsible for the theft, while Heather took responsibility for laundering the money and destroying evidence. Ilya was sentenced to five years in prison with an additional three years of supervised release, while Heather received 18 months and three years of supervised release.

Unresolved Mysteries and Final Thoughts

Despite the arrests, substantial portions of the stolen Bitcoin remain unaccounted for, with only $3.6 billion traced and at least $1 billion successfully laundered. Jillian and Patrick speculate on the possible hiding spots of the remaining funds, including the ludicrous notion of burying gold coins in the woods.

Furthermore, Ilya’s father, Eugene Lichtenstein, remains a figure with unresolved ties to national security, adding an air of conspiracy and unanswered questions to the case. The documentary concludes with the hosts highlighting the paradox of large-scale cryptocurrency theft being mediated by individuals who lack the sophistication typically associated with such crimes.

Jillian Bethel Valley (57:14): "Ilya's dad did not respond to multiple requests to participate in this film. Shocking."

Conclusion

Episode 430: "Biggest Heist Ever" offers a captivating exploration of a cryptocurrency heist that defies conventional criminal archetypes. Through their engaging narrative and insightful commentary, Jillian and Patrick shed light on the fascinating interplay between digital currencies, criminal ingenuity, and the relentless pursuit of justice. This episode not only recounts the events of the Bitfinex hack but also invites listeners to ponder the broader implications of digital security and the evolving landscape of financial crimes.

Notable Quotes:

• Jillian Bethel Valley (00:27): "We are on YouTube and we're blowing up."
• Patrick Hines (03:49): "They live a life of luxury, but they can't spend it."
• Patrick Hines (16:04): "AlphaBay can be a black hole for information."
• Jillian Bethel Valley (25:30): "Did you not realize this? Like, what was your plan here?"
• Patrick Hines (48:54): "You already earned it. Why can't you have it when you want it?"

Timestamp Highlights:

• 00:00 – 00:11: Introduction and initial reluctance to discuss the case.
• 02:00 – 06:00: Overview of the Bitfinex hack and value appreciation of Bitcoin.
• 09:00 – 15:00: Exploration of Ilya and Heather's backgrounds and behaviors.
• 25:00 – 35:00: Details on money laundering methods and the involvement of Heather's alter ego.
• 43:00 – 55:00: Revelation of Ilya's father's background and its implications.
• 57:00 – 62:00: Arrest, plea deals, and unresolved questions surrounding the heist.

Recommendation

For listeners who haven't tuned into this episode yet, Episode 430 is a must-listen for its comprehensive breakdown of one of the most monumental heists in the cryptocurrency sphere. Jillian and Patrick's dynamic presentation ensures that even those unfamiliar with the intricacies of Bitcoin and digital security will find the story both accessible and enthralling.

Join the Conversation

Engage further with the True Crime Obsessed community by joining their Discord server, where you can discuss episodes, share insights, and connect with other true crime aficionados. Dive deeper into the world of true crime with Jillian and Patrick as they continue to unravel fascinating cases with humor, sass, and heart.

Transcript

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't know if I can do this.

[Patrick Hines]

What happens?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I am so sick of these derpy heisters. I hate these people.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't know if I can get through this.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I'll hold your hand. I think we're gonna be okay.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Let's try it.

[Patrick Hines]

At one point, I wrote in huge letters, who cares?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I have. Whatever. Who cares? About 15,000 times. So I'm so glad we're on the same page. Let's give it a whirl, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Jillian Bethel Valley.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Patrick Hines]

We are on YouTube and we're blowing up.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

We.

[Patrick Hines]

We're blowing up.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

We're, like, currently right this minute on YouTube.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Right now what we're saying is somebody is looking at this on YouTube.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yes. Oh, that's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Isn't that weird?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Weird.

[Patrick Hines]

In the future and in the past.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And the present.

[Patrick Hines]

And the present. Fam. It's true. Crime Obsessed podcast. Go check us out. People are having a good time watching us. I think we give good YouTube.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I. I certainly hope so.

[Patrick Hines]

We do.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's what. That's what I hope.

[Patrick Hines]

We're also like, I know these walls are really great, but I promise we're going to dress them up. We've been working on this for a while.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Dress you up in my love. As Madonna used to say.

[Patrick Hines]

Tell them about the dc.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So we are also on. Did I.

[Patrick Hines]

Did I invent something cool? Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You're never known as dc.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Did I just invent a cool new thing?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No, no. The Discord is super fun. We have all these channels where, like, talking about episodes and then just random stuff. And I'm always sort of giving people sneak peeks on what we're recording.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's good.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Hey, guys, I'm in my Fox Hollow prep today.

[Patrick Hines]

Every now and then, somebody will tag me. I'll get, like, a notification that I was tagged on Discord. I'm like, I don't know how to open that.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Don't worry about it.

[Patrick Hines]

I got you. Is it okay if I don't go in there very often?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

This is super fine.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Is it preferable to you?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No, it's just. But it's also where we source, like, our AMA questions on Patreon. And, like, we're just in.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just like a fun grandpa's over in the Facebook group. Come find Gramps in the Facebook group. See if I'm having an app. You know what I mean? Eating a Werther's Original.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah, that's kind of what you put you're like, I'm eating a Werther's right now. Everyone's like, cool girl gets a thousand likes.

[Patrick Hines]

What are we talking about today?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

We are talking about the. It's called the biggest Heist ever. It's on Netflix. The Department of Justice announcing the arrest of two individuals in Manhattan this morning.

[Patrick Hines]

Back in 2016, hackers broke into an online currency exchange, stealing, what, 120,000 Bitcoin.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Which at the time was worth $70 million.

[Patrick Hines]

But today it's worth a staggering 4 billion. Federal agents seized the tokens from digital.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Wallets belonging to husband and wife Ilya.

[Patrick Hines]

Lichtenstein and Heather Morgan. When you talk about the arrest of people involved in a $4.5 billion heist, you think that the criminals behind it are going to be these serious hardened people. But in reality, the people behind this particular case, they are these wacky cringy individ who are posting these totally insane videos on social media while they are trying to pull off this incredible crime razzle con. I'm a motherfucking bad bitch.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Go on, make me a sandwich.

[Patrick Hines]

That was cringe. That was trash. I mean, here's what I'll say. It opens on January 5, 2020. Like, we open at the end, so at least we know that these dingbat idiots get it in the end.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Barely.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know it's true. I mean, they stole $4.5 billion billion billion dollars. Idiots.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's so. It's a bitcoin thing. So, okay, it's. We're talking about. We're with Chris. He's special agent for the irs.

[Patrick Hines]

He is so cute and. But I want to know about his upbringing because he's so type A, nary a smile on the sky about all.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Of this, which I appreciate he is.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, in the juxtaposition between him and these two idiots that steal the 4.5 billion, like, they're out there making rap videos and, like, going to dinner.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's very generous.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, I love Chris. I'm really. I just wonder, like, I know that he has had fun. I just wonder what that looks like for him. What does fun look like for Chris?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, he investigates cases that have to do with money laundering. So this. He's like, yeah, you know, like child exploitation cases. And I'm like, oh, shit, of course. But like, he sees a lot of shit. And a lot of this stuff, I think is to the layperson like myself, like, kind of boring. But he loves it. So I think his fun is his work.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that's true. I just. I want to know more about his upbringing, that's all. Like, was he, like, in the marching band? Was he on the soccer team?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I'd go soccer over marching band. If I'm guess thing. And you know me, I think a marching band is.

[Patrick Hines]

No, me too.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So it's the 2016 hack of Bitfinex.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Ever $72 million worth of Bitcoin was stolen, and the exchange was based in Hong Kong.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. I once met a lady in the playground who tried to get me interested in crypto, and I really wanted to, like, I wanted to understand it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

What did she say it was?

[Patrick Hines]

She. Well, that's the thing.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Can't ever do it.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it was. It was never, like. We never got very far into, like, what exactly crypto is, but she's like, that's insane. I know, but, I mean, I knew bitcoin. Like, I understood.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Describe what it is, but I want you to do it is what you do.

[Patrick Hines]

Basically, give me your money, and I will invest it for you.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I will turn it into something that doesn't exist.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, okay, do you have magic beans too?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You're like, right, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Patrick Hines]

I do. All I know is that there was a time many years ago that I toyed with the idea of buying a piece of a bitcoin, and I never did.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

And I don't know if that was a good decision or a bad one. I don't know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, exactly. It was meaningless. In your life, like, you're fine. Everything's fine.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm doing okay, and you're not involved in this. That's true.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So we talked to Shiel. He's the head of the communications at Bitfinex. Yes, Head of communications. Not the communications. Not an old person yet. One of. He says it's one of the top 10 cryptocurrency exchanges in the world. Everyone is telling us this hack was a very, very big deal. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they said when these multimillion dollar hacks happen, it's often a rogue country. It's Russia, it's Ukraine, it's Iran, North Korea, it's isis. And then they use this money to try to fund terror groups or destabilize governments, which is why these hacks are often an issue of national security.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Is it going to fund some terrorism? What's the deal?

[Patrick Hines]

But then Homeland Security, they definitely are more in the Facebook group than the discord, because they only get so far before they're like, we can't Internet any further. We don't know how to find out any more information.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They can barely make sense of what these hackers did.

[Patrick Hines]

So I guess they get to just keep that $4.5 billion they stole.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right Back again, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Helix is back.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You know what?

[Patrick Hines]

Happy.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Happy to have them jumped out of bed today like a little spring cute chicken.

[Patrick Hines]

I remember it used to be, like, to sleep in my bed that was lumpy. I remember all my mattresses would always fold in the middle like a taco. And I always slept super hot.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The bad old days. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Bad old days. And, like, that's the whole thing about our Helix mattress is, like, the way that we sleep, the quality of our sleep, the fact that our entire family, including our dog, only wants to sleep in our bed.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Fiona, literally, I fell asleep on the couch the other day. Yeah. She barked at me. I'm not kidding. And walked me into bed.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I mean, it tells you everything you need to know. You know, Helix has been with us for, like, eight or nine years at this point. We love Helix. We are never going back. I actually recommend everybody in my. They're like, but honestly, tell me the truth. Is Helix really the best? I'm like, helix really is us. They send the mattress right to your door.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You take a little sleep quiz. It takes two minutes or less. You tell them, like, your preferences, what you like, how you sleep.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And it's great, too, because Mike and I have different preferences. And I was like, there's no way. There's no way.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And the midnight luxe mattress solved all my problems.

[Patrick Hines]

And I was saying last time we. We donate our apartment to this organization that I work for once a year. So all, like, when they. When we put on this event, all the. The big wigs at this. At this organization can sleep over. They fight to sleep in our bed because everybody loves it so much.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Or you can get your own. Everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. That's another option. Kelly.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So fam. Go to helixsleep.com tco for 27% off site wide, plus a free bedding bundle. It's a sheet set and mattress protector with any luxe or elite mattress order. This is exclusive for listeners of True Crime Obsessed.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. So that's helixsleep.com TCO for 27% off sitewide plus signal, free bedding bundle. That's the sheet set and mattress protector with any luxe or elite mattress order. And it's exclusive for listeners of True Crime Obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Do you guys feel exclusive? Because you are.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Helix sleep.com TCO thank you so much. Do it. So Brett Johnson is here.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't believe there aren't like. Like, the equivalent of Internet mafia after these people. Like, that's. How are they just getting away with this?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They are probably are. You just can't talk about it. And they're. They're the, like, the Mafia. That's like. They don't look like, like, huh. You know?

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, these people don't seem to be afraid of them. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

These two dingbats.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, if I, like.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I mean, they're not thinking ahead. Not one centimeter.

[Patrick Hines]

If I cut somebody off in New Jersey, I feel like I'm immediately headed for the pine barons.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No, I wouldn't do that.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no. It's like, cut somebody off.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I love that. You know the pine barons.

[Patrick Hines]

Pine barons. I only know it from the fucking Durst.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Oh, it's also arguably the best episode of the Sopranos.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, really?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Called the pine barons. It's hilarious.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't want to go. I don't want to go decorated.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

His house looked like shit. Anyway, so Brett Johnson knows all about what's going on because do you? United States Secret Service.

[Patrick Hines]

They called me the original Internet Godfather. I was placed on the United States most wanted list. Credit card schemes, phishing attacks, stimulus fraud, synthetic fraud, you name it. I was on the ground floor developing, refining, outright doing it. He wants us to be so impressed. He wants us to think that he is the coolest. He's basically. He's going to say, I invented cyber hacking. He's going to say, like, that was him.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He did it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't think there's a single thing that is impressive to me and from anyone, Maybe IRS Chris, because it's like, he's getting to the bottom of shit. And we're. He's like, getting the people who are exploiting children, like, yay, that's great. And, like, let's not do terrorism. But everything else, I'm like, oh, you. Oh, cool. You hacked it.

[Patrick Hines]

You learned how to computer better than me. Great. Great job.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Had my identity stolen. This is old news.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I did? Marching band. And that was fucking fun.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't care. I called up Chase and they were like, don't worry, girl. We know it wasn't you.

[Patrick Hines]

I know the first time I got, like, my debit card stolen and, like, somebody charged $700 on my debit, I thought I was gonna have to pay for it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Where'd they go?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, oh, oh, the children's place.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Mine, too.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut up.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I swear to God. The children's. I was like, 20, single.

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The children's place. Victoria's Secret, Gap, baby.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. And I'm like, children's place.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Seven secret. If you're spending $1,000 at the children's place. But the. The cops, like, took one. I was like, I didn't do this. Like, hi. Like, this isn't me. And Chase was like, you're 22 and single.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Patrick Hines]

I thought I was on the hizzook for it. I thought I was going to have to get a second job, but I.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Think maybe sometimes you are. But they were like, I don't know what the deal is, but it was very.

[Patrick Hines]

They took on the hisy for it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't know. I just skated right by it. They took one look at me and they were like, you spending your weekend in Paramus, New Jersey, at the children's place?

[Patrick Hines]

You of all people. They were like, oh, none of that.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I was like, I can show you where I was. I was actually at a weekend long event, whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

And they were like, no, we don't. It doesn't matter.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

We're moving on to other fraud. The biggest fraud is you trying to go to the children's place. I was like, I didn't try to go. So Brett is trying to explain it to us like we're idiots. And I'm like, no, Brett, I'm not an idiot. I just don't care.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I mean, essentially what they do is they trick people into giving them their fucking passwords and they. And then they transfer the money out. Like that's. It's as simple as that.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So what happens is that the person.

[Patrick Hines]

Who bro to Bitfinex had access to their servers for months. This hacker modified the back end code so it sends them customers passwords as.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

People log into the system. Once the hacker was able to gain access, they executed the script to automatically transfer over funds. The hackers in. They transfer the funds, they delete all of the access and they wipe. It's like wiping your fingerprints from a crime scene. They say, yeah, bing, bada boom, they're in.

[Patrick Hines]

And like. But the thing about bitcoin, we'll get more into this later. Even I this, you can track every bitcoin transaction across the Internet forever. So, like, what good does it do you to actually steal bitcoin?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

These people did not have a plan, because I asked that about 17 times. What was the plan?

[Patrick Hines]

They eventually get brought down by Uber gift cards because that's all they could buy with this shit.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I mean, it's ridiculous.

[Patrick Hines]

It's insane.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So we learned that the crypto boom was, quote, the most insane moment in financial history. Like, not about. What about that big crash we had in the 20s? No, that wasn't an insane moment in financial history. 2008.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, no crypto boom. Should I buy that? Trump crypto?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Try to get myself into that White House dinner.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Get out. Get out.

[Patrick Hines]

You don't want Trump crypto.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No. I need you to stop saying that name to me. I thought this was a safe space.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I just got sucker punched.

[Patrick Hines]

In your own booth?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

In my own home.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Trump crypto.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So Rachel is a crypto influencer. Yawn. She's nice enough.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the thing about this Rachel, though, is that she bought bitcoin when it was nothing, and then it, like, was worth a billion dollars and she cashed. Rachel did a really smart thing 100 years ago.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She was a substitute teacher turned millionaire. And I was like, lin Manuel Miranda has that exact same trajectory, different directions, but they ended up millionaires.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So during the boom, the stolen $72 million grows into $4.5 billion.

[Patrick Hines]

Billion with a B. I remember watching this happen with bitcoin where, like, people bought bitcoin for, like, $1,000, and then the next day it was worth $17,000, and they bought, like, 40 of them. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Like, and then they take it out immediately, right?

[Patrick Hines]

No. And nobody ever fudgeing does that. And that. That's what it. Rachel did it. But, like, that's what's so quick, is bitcoin's not worth anything now? Or, like, it's worth much less than it was at its height. So tired, I guess.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So I just don't care. Like, I just.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So I. So I'm sitting there, I'm like, wait, so it's still in the crypto world. Like, they let it sit here and grow. Yeah. Like, you can't just let that much money sit in one place, right? Eventually, some of the money starts to move, and that's how this previously cold case turns piping hot, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Because you can't. If you steal bitcoin, bitcoin basically has a serial number on it that you can't take off, right? So if you steal somebody's bitcoin and you ever try to spend that bitcoin, the entire Internet on the blockchain, which is basically Just, like, a public ledger. I don't know how I know this much about it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

IRS Chris explains it to us the best we can, and you paid attention.

[Patrick Hines]

Because you like him. I listen to, like, podcasts about this sometimes. You know, it just comes up or whatever, but, like, you can track it anywhere.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I think what's unique about cryptocurrency investigations is that the public blockchain is the crime scene. The blockchain is a public ledger where you can go and see the transactions, but you can't see who's responsible. So anyone can go on and see the transactions, but you can't see who is making those transactions.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. That's the whole point of. That's the crypto and cryptocurrency.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So we can see the account. They call it a wallet. It's an account.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They do anything to not say a bank account or, like, anything that's any. Any word or idea that's familiar to us. Idiots who aren't in crypto running to them. I'm like, it's just an account.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's like.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's a wallet with a password. A wallet's like. It's kind of like a. Like, I got an account. It's an account.

[Patrick Hines]

How do I explain this? You have money and you got a. I don't like.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's just an account.

[Patrick Hines]

Rachel, can you explain this to them?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

My God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So 2020 comes around. Great year. Womp. Womp TRM Labs is here. They trace and track the flow of funds in cryptocurrency. So they're here to try to help the IRS figure out what is going on with this and what the situation is. And so everything that's happening is happening outside, quote, traditional financial institutions. I'm like, just banks. I feel insane. Stop gaslighting me. I'm not defending big banks, but just say what they are.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. It's true.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's so weird. Like, it's just. It's a bank, but it's online, right? My God, look, you're really.

[Patrick Hines]

You're nailing it. Oh, my God. I'm sorry, fam. I'm shifting all around because, like, we're. We're still getting used to our new space. It's a little tight in here, but now I'm sitting in crisscross apples.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That face was not you. That was just this.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no. I know, I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So the money is moving to alphabay, which is the ebay of criminal goods and services. It's a way to launder money, basically. So this makes it very hard to, you know, follow the money and see where it goes, which is how you solve this kind of shit. AlphaBay broke up the trail on the bitcoin blockchain. So think of it as you walk into a bank with $100 bill, and you go out to the ATM and.

[Patrick Hines]

Pull out a different $100 bill. Like, if you're following that first bill.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The serial numbers, you'd be following the wrong trail. And so a darknet market like AlphaBay can be a black hole for information.

[Patrick Hines]

For following the flow of funds. It's like user trafficking drugs and laundering cryptocurrency. Like that's. Exactly.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So back in 2017, the government shuts down AlphaBay.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And now people like IRS Chris can look through all of the transactions, but there are billions of them. You can't really make sense of it.

[Patrick Hines]

And Alphabet is a place that you would go and dump your bitcoin into a mixer and get spit out somebody else's bitcoin. So it was another way of keeping the bitcoin even harder to trace.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

But they shut it down. Thank God. So now they can trace all of that back, and that's how they. That's how they start to figure out who stole this money.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So they keep saying two people show up over and over and over again. Ilya Lichtenstein and Heather Morgan.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Two of the most annoying people I've ever had the displeasure of coming across. Herbs doesn't even come.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And we're going to learn. They lived in our city, and we probably, like, were on the subway with them at one point. Can you imagine?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Every herb we've ever called a herb is like, hey, don't let me in with these dingbats.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Well, but that's the thing. The authorities go through Heather's social media accounts. She's got, like, thousands of videos of her, like, just being, like, trying to be an influencer. And they're like, there's no way this idiot stole billions of dollars.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They're like, the government has it wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

The Bezos did not defense they have.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

As being themselves because they're annoying, they're obnoxious, and they're relentless. Like, maybe stay offline. Yeah. In the middle of getting away with stealing $4 billion.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Shut your mouth for two seconds.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the thing.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And they don't. That's why we're.

[Patrick Hines]

And nobody. Right. Nobody. Nobody actually wants to do that. But they're saying what's great about her social media is that you can see Every square inch of their apartments. You can actually start to catalog things. Like, are these kind of people who could afford that furniture? Is that a fancy bottle of champagne? Like, right, how. What do they do for work that they can afford that?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So stay stupid, everyone. I just don't always want to have to see it and hear it.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And neither do the guys on the case because they're like, believe me, it was a nightmare.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Like, we had to watch and really pay attention to thousands of their videos. It was the worst.

[Patrick Hines]

And the videos are not well made. Aaron is not involved on their team.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And it's just so, like, nothing is genuine or authentic. So it just reeks of desperation. And I'm just like, I'm not watching any. Anything real.

[Patrick Hines]

And so now we start to get, like, backstory. We start to meet like, Heather's. We meet like Miguel, Heather's college roommate. And like, they both studied international relations and economics and like that. He's saying she was always looking for the next best thing. We got James, who's here, but he won't be interviewed on camera. He's too scared.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And this is all happening in Silicon Valley, by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The thing that we have to kind of acknowledge about Heather is that we know that she is an intelligent person. We're going to learn more about. She knows a bunch of languages and, like, she did really well in school. She moved to like they say, she moved to Silicon Valley in its golden age. Did Silicon Valley have a golden age, but then like, when people could go from nothing to billionaire overnight?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right. Travel down, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Cure is back. So listen, Cure is a plant based, hydrating, electrolyte drink mix with no added sugar. Can I tell you, it is absolutely delicious. I start my day with it every single day. That is not a lie. I swear, my daughter, that is the absolute truth.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, you know, I mean, I believe. I believe mostly because it's the cleanest way to hydrate. So cure is made with clean ingredients, which means zero added sugar. You get pure hydration without any of the junk. And it's doctor approved.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's also only 25 calories per serving, so it's not overpoweringly sweet. And we all know we're supposed to start our day with water, but nobody really just wants to drink bland, boring old water. So you dump this little pack in it gives you a little bit of sweetness, and you get your day going. Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Let's talk about the flavors, please. Berry pomegranate, strawberry kiwi lemonade, watermelon tropical punch. Keep your mitts off it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Blood orange, lime, there. They're all so refreshing.

[Patrick Hines]

The strawberry kiwi is my personal fave.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Steve knows now. I come into the kitchen. I have this big plastic cup. I fill it with ice. I fill it with water. I dump in my cure. I give it a little stir. Nobody talks to me till I've had my cure.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And look, summer's coming. We gotta stay hydrated. There's no better way.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. One million percent. So, fam. Hydration goes beyond just drinking water. It's about replenishing the electrolytes we lose through sweat, sleep, alcohol, and daily activities.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Water alone isn't enough to do the job. That's why you need to try Cure, the electrolyte drink mix that tastes as amazing as it makes you feel.

[Patrick Hines]

So for TCO listeners, Cure is offering 20% off your first order.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Stay hydrated and feel your best by visiting cure hydration.com TCO and using promo code TCO at checkout.

[Patrick Hines]

That's cure hydration.com TCO & use code TCO for 20% off your first order. You know, you need to. Now just do it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I know. It's so good. You have so many options, too, for flavors, fruit, punch. And so there's this. This group called 500 Startups, and they found, you guessed it, 500 startups to invest in.

[Patrick Hines]

I got to say there was a podcast called Startup, which was one of the first gimlet podcasts, and I was really, really into it. There's a bunch of these podcasts about entrepreneurs trying to get funding for their idea. Like, shark tanks. I love this. I'm very, very into it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so the whole idea. The idea was that these investors would find 500 different startups to invest in, and if they were lucky, one of them would be the next Facebook. Heather desperately wanted to break into this fold, and she tried all these different approaches to try to get in. And Heather is desperate to break into this group, and she gets one of these companies to take her seriously, and she goes and works for a guy named Hussam Homo.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, we learned one of her friends is, like, she would zero in on people and then, like, going for the kill. And this was one of the guys that she, quote, zeroed in on.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, he hires her to, like, be a part of her team at, like, tomato games.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Tomato, but tomato or something. Whatever. But he's here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And he was, like, one of the first companies from the Middle east to be involved. It's like a big. It's like a cool thing for someone to be involved in.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, you know, I don't know much about the Silicon Valley Valley world, but it says something about Heather that she would be able to go out there and get herself into one of these startups. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She's incredibly manipulative, which is what we are told a million times over. Yes. Because she, first of all, always had to be the center of attention. We're told she would, like, make waffles at the office. So she called herself the Waffle Queen. And you had to call her the Waffle Queen too. Like, who cares? But one of her friends, Hussam, says she was really good at identifying people, figuring them out, and then pursuing them to close deals. And I'm like, is that good business or is that just being manipulative? Or is it both?

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's definitely both. Like, I think there's a reason why people are like that.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She's definitely manipulating her partner in crime here. Yeah, 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

No question.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I think she was like, I'm sorry, finding men in Silicon Valley, being like, can you tell me more about your startup? And, like, being interested in what they have to offer.

[Patrick Hines]

But she also speaks five languages. Like, she's a very intelligent woman.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

100%. I think she's using all of that not maybe or just like, to get herself up in the world. And then I'm sitting here like, fuck, yeah. Like, use what you have to get into this man's world and kick that glass ceiling or whatever. But then you learn what she did with it. You wasted it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? But all of it stinks of Elizabeth. What's her name? Elizabeth. The. Yeah, all of it, like, stinks of that. Where it's like, Elizabeth Holmes. If you had used your power for the forces of good, you know what I mean? We could have really actually used that therapy. Like, go make that be real, because we need that.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right? Like, maybe it could have been real if you weren't such a dick about it all.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But it feels weird to. Only, I know you're not, but it feels weird to, like, say this about women, because I'm like, wait a second. Like, we men are manipulative and, like.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They'Re every single second of the day.

[Patrick Hines]

Celebrate how far they get. Like, the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world, you know?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Which one of us here is celebrating Mark Zuckerberg?

[Patrick Hines]

Neither one of us. But I'm saying the world does.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You know, he stepped over. I mean, the Winklevi. Hello. Totally you know, like, he. He lied, cheated, and stole his way to the top.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, like, this person just sucks and happens to be a woman, you know? Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And people are just saying, like, you know, she's being manipulative, but at the same time, it's like she's using what she has. Being a woman, a young, smart woman in Silicon Valley could not have been easy.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Don't make me defend her.

[Patrick Hines]

I won't. I will not. So Ilya, the other one that the FBI now thinks is behind this hack.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

He'S like, and Ilya are the two people that they're looking.

[Patrick Hines]

They meet because he's a mentor in this 500 Startups program. He was a founder of a company called MixRanks, which does something with Internet ads I don't really understand, but is actually very success.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's a giant database of ads.

[Patrick Hines]

But everyone is saying, but like, this company of, like, all the. Of all the companies out there, like, this one seemed like it was really going to make it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Speaking of Shark Tank, Mark Cuban was an investor. I saw that Mark Cuban was on Shark Tank and also owns the basketball team.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So Heather for president Mark Cuban.

[Patrick Hines]

I think so. I know. He was, like, throwing his hat, like he was getting good with Kamala. We'll see.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Oh, God. So Heather calls Ilia Dutch, and no one really knows why.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

But we learn that Ilya is really pursuing Heather, and she wasn't into him romantically, and then eventually she was. And I'm like, okay, there's manipulation here. I get it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So Mix Rank, this ad, this, like, giant database of ads, and I'm like, I'm asleep. Am I sleeping? Am I talking and sleeping?

[Patrick Hines]

I thought this was interesting because it's doing really well. It's having, like, crazy success. I was in communication with their team to do a product video, to do a bunch of other kind of deliverables for them. But during that time, Ilya disappeared. Not really saying anything to anyone, not talking to anyone afterwards. It was just. He was there one day and he was gone the next. It was so weird. It seemed like the company was doing well. In 2016, he leaves. So nobody knows why.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah, they're getting more employees. Like, they're like, the business is booming, bigger offices. Like, they're growing in ways that you can see and that you can't see. And then Ilya just like. Like, bills.

[Patrick Hines]

And we'll learn later that this happens to coincide with when this hack for the $4.5 billion was done.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So that's why?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So in 2017, these two bozos move to New York City from San Francisco.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And they aren't super rich. And I'm like, because they can't be. The stolen funds are stuck.

[Patrick Hines]

So They've got the $4.5 billion in the bank, but they can't access it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And I'm like, did you not realize this? Like, what was your plan here?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

These are two smart people who are doing these startups. They know how this world works, they know how to hack it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

But they don't know how to get out of it.

[Patrick Hines]

My thinking is that they worked backwards. They were like, we know how to hack. I bet we could hack this bitcoin company. Let's see how much money we can get. So they get all this bitcoin because they're good at that part of it. But now they're like, oh shit, now what do we do? Because the other thing too hack it again. Well, are they living in fear? Because now, now we've got this money we can't spend, but now we've got the money.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't think they're self aware enough to have fear.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I write and that at least would be better if like they were looking over their shoulder all the time, but it feels like they are not.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Heather had had Sales Folk, which is a startup about improving your cold email technique.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so we'll learn later that this company, like she's working on it, but like it really is just a, it's like a front company that they're going to try to launder some of this bitcoin money through.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right. So Martin is here, he's Heather's intern and I'm like, intern, he tells us, you know, Heather was elegant, she was professional, she was very well versed in the industry. And he says, at first I was just managing her social media. But after a few Heather introduced Razzlekon Razzlekhan. She thinks she's rapping. Everyone. She's trying to rap. She thinks she's rapping. And I just have my notes. Someone help me.

[Patrick Hines]

She thinks. So she was inspired to create this alter ego after interviewing Awkwafina.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, she was burnt out at work. I was like, doing what? Do you work in the pit? Burnt out at work doing what?

[Patrick Hines]

I know, doing what.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So yeah, she met with Awkwafina.

[Patrick Hines]

Basically she said that Awkwafina is much.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

More confident and more shaped shameless than Nora.

[Patrick Hines]

That moment definitely solidified this idea to.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Pursue an alter ego. Awkwafina Basically, like, told her what an alter ego was.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Like, she had invented it.

[Patrick Hines]

And so, like, she's like, she's got company, but, like, she's never working on the company. She's only making her rap videos.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She's so burnt out.

[Patrick Hines]

And this guy makes this video for her called I Can't even Versace, Bedouin, whatever.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's so, like, it's supposed to be rage bait, right? Like, it's so bad.

[Patrick Hines]

So bad.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And like, that's the point. Right. I need that to be the point. I'm falling for the rage bait.

[Patrick Hines]

What? The thing about it is that she's a billionaire. She's got $4.5 billion in the bank, but she can't spend it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Here's a question for you. Is she a billionaire then?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I mean, the thing is, they're going to find ways to launder enough of the money to live really high on the hog. Yeah, but like, that's what I'm saying. They had to know that eventually they were going to get caught.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, they just going to have.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Fun for a few years until it all came crashing down.

[Patrick Hines]

I do think that they had a shadow of an escape plan that they just didn't put the effect fast enough. You know what I mean? Because we're gonna learn that she's out there making rap videos, having all the fun. No one ever sees Ilya. And I think that Ilya spends his entire day and night trying to figure out how to get to the money.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that's why we never see him. I think that's what he's doing.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Yeah. So of course, this, like, her whole life is about the rapping career, which I say very loosely. It's an insult to the art form.

[Patrick Hines]

They upload it to you. She's like, let it just do its thing on YouTube. They upload it to YouTube. She's expecting a million views. It gets like 200.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And every comment is like, this is terr.

[Patrick Hines]

You should stop doing this, girl. This is not where your talents lie.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Like, everyone hated it. Even Martin the videographer was like, this is bad. Yeah, I'm not even gonna tell my parents about it.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And like, so people who are paying attention to Ilya and Heather's lives are like, wait a second. We see this fancy apartment they live in because we see the YouTube videos. We see, like, they're going out to dinner all the time. Heather is writing for Forbes, and she's making maybe 100 to $150 per post. And then at the Same time, Ilya creates a new startup, and he calls it the enpass. It's unclear if it's making money, and yet they seem to be living a life of luxury. Her main focus is this Razzlekhan character. How do they have the money? How does she have the money to be producing these videos?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Now, meanwhile, Ilya has yet another startup called En Pass, which is hilariously about protecting your cryptocurrency.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Safest and most convenient crypto wallet.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, Ilya? Right. Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So. And even I think it's irs. Chris is like, look, they weren't like Pablo Escobar.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

But they were traveling a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's saying, I know from my own experience, if you have to ask the question, it's probably about money laundering.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right. And, like, they are living beyond their means, but, like, by way of always traveling and only flying in first class.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So.

[Patrick Hines]

But they were posting about it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right. But, like, still, they weren't living in, like, what's the fanciest? Hampton Bridge. Whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not like.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's not like they had a $50 million estate.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That they were traipsing around. Like, they were just, like, always in first class.

[Patrick Hines]

First class is kind of the equivalent to that. Like, if you're traveling all the time and you're like, flying emirates and they're like shower suites. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Where it's like an apartment, like a small studio apartment. And the point is, where the hell is the money coming from?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So what's happening is that Heather and Ilya are hiring fake employees.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the only reason they have these other companies, so they can fake pay.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

People and paying them in Bitcoin and.

[Patrick Hines]

Paying them, like, a million dollars a year.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So they're starting to launder money by, like. And this person won't exist. So it's a fake payroll with fake people and fake accounts, wallets, Whatever you need, whatever helps you, whatever phrase is most comfortable for you. Or they were high hiring, like, fake marketing companies and paying them for their services, but the companies don't exist and the services weren't being rendered.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So we meet Dyron Sutherland.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

He's Heather's friend and musician. The first song they did was High in the Cemetery. And I'm like, Mr. Sutherland, if I may, you know, this is terrible.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Even now, he's not backing away from that. Like, even now he was like, this was the coolest thing ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because what he's saying is that she was Showing me she could splurge money. She exposed me to that rich life that I never had. She can pay for what I needed, like, if I needed jewelry, if I needed some clothes. Telling me money is not an issue. And I'm showing her like, hey, I got the parties. I got the clubs. I can get us on the VIP list. She's got a $2,000 cat. He's like, I want a $2,000 cat.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

He said, she exposed me to the rich life that I never had. She was buying him jewelry, buying him clothes. He goes, she was buying me what I needed. I was like, yeah, like, when you needed all those diamonds, you needed the diamonds.

[Patrick Hines]

But some people just have fancy taste, I guess. You know what I mean? Or else they die.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Diamonds are a girl's best friend. True. Or whatever. She's telling everyone that Ilya or Dutch, because she calls him Dutch and no one knows why.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Is this big stock guy, and he's closing these multimillion dollar deals because they would.

[Patrick Hines]

All their friends would spend time with them and be like, he's never around. Like, where is he?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And then it's like, are they together? Like, we're not 100% sure what their relationship is exactly. Like, some people say it was just business. Other people say that they would, like, hook up sometimes, but it wasn't serious.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to like more about what his life was like during this time, because I feel like he's in his room drinking Red Bull and staying up 19 hours a day trying to get this money out. Trying to figure it out.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Being locked in, as they say.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So let's learn a little bit more about Heather.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She grew up in Chico, California. Her former classmate calls it a redneck area. Those are not my words. Those are his. The point is that she didn't come from money.

[Patrick Hines]

No. She was an outcast. She was smart. We meet Ilya's childhood friend Zach, and he's like, ilya grew up in Greenville, Illinois. Like, he was in some program in high school called the Tree Program. The rich educational environment gravitated towards computers. I was like, oh, nerd.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

He loved the board game Risk. He was very big on pulling one over on his opponent. I'm like, I see where you're going with this.

[Patrick Hines]

They were in a board game club. I was like, boys.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Even the marching band were like, you guys are nerds.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Board game club. That would be so fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Board game. I get. I get. It would not be for me. I was. I was.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Does it have to be games? Like, Risk and civilization. Or can we play Monopoly?

[Patrick Hines]

I will say Risk is a really fun game.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Super fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Risk isn't like, I'm good. I'm really good at Risk. Yeah, it's not like that. Like, the Cones of Mort door or whatever.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right, right.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Ben Wyatt.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, are you the. What are they called?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Codes of Dunshire?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you the. What do they call him?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The guy who invented, like, the master?

[Patrick Hines]

You're like, yeah. Oh, my God. That episode is amazing. But, like, being a part of the board. I love that. My kid Daisy desperately wants to be in the math club and the chess club.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Great.

[Patrick Hines]

How amazing. I love love. We had her parent teacher the other day. Her math teacher was levitating with how much Daisy loves math. Like, to see a teacher so excited about a kid so excited about math was wild.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's so.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really, really great.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Signed a girl who was always told how terrible she was at math because she was terrible at math. I, like, I can't. But I can't imagine that. So, like, when I hear that, I'm just, like, in awe of it. I'm like, she's good at it and she likes it.

[Patrick Hines]

She loves it. You know, the reading and writing. Like, she's severely dyslexic. So, like, that is so hard for her. And so I think because she's good at math, like, she loves it because it's like a thing that's easy for her.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's like a mean girls where they're like, why do you like math? And she's like, because it's the same in every language. And they're like, that's beautiful.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, the Ilya love to quote Austin Powers. Like, like, nerds.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, nerds. And this guy is. He sought power. He loved Risk. He was always quoting Dr.

[Patrick Hines]

Evil.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And I'm like, can we stop? And this is where we learn that Dutch is actually a character from a game called red Dead Redemption 2.

[Patrick Hines]

You lost me. I'm back to marching back.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

This is a very, very famous game.

[Patrick Hines]

It is. I don't think anyone else picked up on this, but Dutch is a character from a game called Red Dead Red Redemption 2. He's kind of like the protagonist the entire time until you find out he wasn't friends with anyone. He was the antagonist the whole time.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

At the end, you think he's the good guy the whole time, and then at the end, you realize he's the bad guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you play that game more than once?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I guess. I don't Know, I think it takes forever to finish it. Oh, that's. It's not really my type of game.

[Patrick Hines]

Uh huh.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Travel down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

Back again, girl. Wild Alaskan company is a new sponsor. Stephen Lee Tipton is absolutely obsessed.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, let me tell you, Wild Alaskan company is the best way to get Wild Wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. I have to tell you, it's very hard to find good seafood.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So the thing is, it comes in a box, Right. We opened the box, it's like packed to the brim. You throw it in the freezer till you're ready to use it. It defrosts so perfect. We've been having it for dinner. He's been throwing it on his salads. It's the perfect thing to have in the freezer when you want to have that like delicious protein packed meal.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. So they have like coho salmon, they have Pacific halibut. They have Pacific cod.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You know, just for the halibut.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Listen, it's 100% win. Wild caught, never farmed. That means there are no antibiotics, GMOs, or additives. Just clean, real fish that support healthy oceans and fishing communities.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. And look, if you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan company will give you a full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood.

[Patrick Hines]

Steve said to me four times today, he's like, what do you want me to tell you? I love it so much. Make people get it. It's so good.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I feel like we nailed it, Steve.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I think so.

[Patrick Hines]

So fam, not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com for 35 bucks off your first box of premium wild Caught Seafood.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's wildalaskan.com TCO for 35 bucks off your first order.

[Patrick Hines]

Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Go do this. It's a great thing that it's so easy and it's perfect to have.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

There you go. And Steve loves it.

[Patrick Hines]

And Steve loves it, girl. Earn in is back. So look, Earn in is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work. So we're talking up to 150 bucks per day. We with a max of 750 bucks between paydays.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Why are we waiting?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. Get your money when you need it is what this is all about. And look, you never know when you're going to need that cash advance. Right? Like your spontaneous Date nights.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Or just, like, saving it for rent. Or we have to take Fiona to the emergency room the other day. She's fine. But like, things like that, life happens all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally. You already earned it. Why can't you have it when you want it?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Seriously, Just download the Earn an app and verify your paycheck. Then you can access up to 150 bucks a day as you work. And you can. You can leave an optional tip.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, that's crazy.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Any money you access, plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck. Bada bing, bada boom.

[Patrick Hines]

So here's the deal. Download Earn in today. It's spelled E A R N I N in Google Play or the Apple App Store. When you download the Earn an app, type in True Crime Obsessed under Podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. So that's True Crime Obsessed under Podcast. Let them know that we sent you.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank. No cash outs are based on your event available earnings. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And there's an option to expedite your transfer for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service. See the cash out user agreement for details. Services not available in all states. I mean, I mean, look, get your money when you want it. It's yours. You should have it when you want it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You might have, like, a date night planned or just like you're gonna treat yourself.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Who knows? Possibilities are endless.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally. We're comparing Ilya and Heather to Bonnie and Clyde.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No, we're not.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, great.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Heather was a citizen of the world. She a ton of languages. They their quote.

[Patrick Hines]

The disdain with what you said. Citizen of the world.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's just like that where it's like. But was she like, this is what I mean. Like, if she spoke five languages. How cool is that? What? Think of what you can do with that. Experiences. You could. You could truly be a citizen of the world.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And you could, like, instead.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. And like, she lived in Hong Kong, Cairo, Turkey. It's like, holy, holy. This guy says this, like, guy who was like a professor who went on to be like a colleague of hers said in the beginning, her signature said H.E.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Morgan, economist.

[Patrick Hines]

@ that point, that was kind of aspirational.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The second six months, she added entrepreneur.

[Patrick Hines]

The very final email I got from her in 2013, she was economist, entrepreneur, and hustler.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

There was a palpable sense of restlessness about her.

[Patrick Hines]

Economist, entrepreneur, hustler And I was like, I like that.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's like Elizabeth Theranos. Whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Elizabeth Holmes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Holmes meets Anna Delvey. Totally meets fucking Razzlekhan. I know, but she knew a lot about hacking, specifically social engineering hacking. And that is a fancy word for, like, when you would pretend to be someone else to get the person to give you a password so you'd have, like, audio of a screaming baby in the background to create urgency and be like, please, please, please. My mom really needs this. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. My baby.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what hacking really is. We think that hacking is, like, a guy in a dark room and, like, a black suit.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And, like, not always.

[Patrick Hines]

No, Hacking is, like, convincing people to give you their passwords out of, like, making them think a baby is dying.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Y. Just like. I mean, I've told the story a million times, but my grandmother used to get phone calls all the time where they would know that she's old and hear that she was old and be like, hi, how are, like, really nice. And be like, I'm so. Did you know that you owe X amount of money? And, like, we can make that go away for you right now. So all you have to do is. I'll. You know what? I'll hold tight while you get your purse. I mean, they're like, night the patients. I get the guys from India screaming at you about your back taxes, and I'm like, what the fuck?

[Patrick Hines]

I know. We will come to your house right now.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I'm like, no, you won't.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

My accountant's awesome. Gail has my back. Trust me. I pay my estimates. I'm good, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Don't fucking yell at me.

[Patrick Hines]

Or.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Now I get these calls where it's like, we're calling you about the property you own in Delaware, And I'm like, the. That's so easily. I'm like, well, I don't have a house.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Michigan or wherever. So, like, click.

[Patrick Hines]

How do you sleep at night? How do you sleep at night knowing that I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and scam call all these old people?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

My mom fell for it, too. My mom. Like, my mom gave up, like, most of her savings to one of the. It was a total nightmare.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's horrifying. And my dad. I think my mom was there for it once, and she was like, mom, hang up the phone. Never answer these calls again. And my grandmother was one fucking tough cookie.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Annie, we don't fuck with her.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No, we don't. But she my dad was the voice on her answering machine to have, like, a male voice.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So instead of, like, an automated one, it was, like, safer, or it was, like, it felt to be like, oh, so I won't mess with her. And, like, if some, like, robber was, like, going to call.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah. She was doing this all the time.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So it was my dad did it. Crazy, right? Crazy world we live in. So Heather is, like, doing all these talks, and during one of her talks about social engineering hacking, which is what we were just talking about, it becomes clear that she kind of supports it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Because she's done it, and when she's asked about it, she kind of, like, hems and haws and talks in circles. And she ends this little, like, word salad with, well, I have my own ethics.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And, like, you can see her going to these, like, these conventions, wanting to be, like, a cryptocurrency influencer.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. You know, and, like, she's some kind of hacking influencer.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Like, she's some kind of authority on it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The writing was on the wall, everyone. Cryptocurrency hacking influencer. Hello.

[Patrick Hines]

They were telling you what they were doing.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So here's what's interest, because someone's like, there's no way Ilya did this. There's no way Ilya did this. What's really interesting is that Ilya's father is a hacker.

[Patrick Hines]

Famously.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Famously a hacker. So remember earlier, the godfather of hacking or whatever, Brett. But unbeknownst to everybody, Brett was actually working undercover as a Secret Service informant because he had gotten arrested for an ebay scam.

[Patrick Hines]

My job was to target individuals and build up investigations against.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And one of the individuals that came to him was a hacker who used the name Deuce. Deuce hacked into the First national bank of Indiana, but there's a problem he can't cash out.

[Patrick Hines]

I will say, my father likes time. Exactly. Like, the name Deuce did make me laugh.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I know. So Deuce finds out that Brett is an informant because he gets in touch.

[Patrick Hines]

With Brett to be like, bro, I've got all this money in the national bank of Indiana or whatever. Can you get me out of here? Brett's like, absolutely. Give me your name, your Social Security number, your address, and where you are right now. Hacks into Brett's computer, realizes that he's a fucking hacker, and, like, threatens his life.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right. So whatever. But, I mean, bada boom, we find out through research that Deuce is actually Ilya's father and his name is Eugene Lichtenstein.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, the Secret Service goes right to Eugene's house, where he admits everything, and he then becomes an informant.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right. This is all in 2005, by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And he becomes a real estate agent.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

In Chicago, and he's never charged.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So that's a major part of it here that, like, Ilya knows someone who could either hack for him or he grew up with a father teaching him how to hack. Like, that's where the IRS is going with this.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Because you can't ignore the fact that his father was, like, a famous hacker.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And, like, if Ilya didn't do this, did his dad do it? Did they do it together? But, like, it's definitely them.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Is his dad involved?

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So Heather and Ilya go to Ukraine.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, this is kind of important because they're buying, like, stolen passports, debit cards, other, quote, identity documents. They're getting shipments from Russia. The point of this is to say that it looks like they are creating some sort of an escape plan. When they were in Ukraine, they were trying to set up places to be and live. And my belief, and I think the belief of federal, federal authorities is that that was their escape plan. If they get busted in the United States, they can go to Ukraine, get into Russia, which does not have an extradition treaty with the United States. They can get the money out there and live like the fucking Russian oligarchs who do this every day.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So everyone's like, well, why didn't they just go to Russia then?

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Like, Ilya's Russian. They both speak Russian. They could have all their money tax free. Like, why didn't they just go there?

[Patrick Hines]

And this is one of those things where I don't know how much they knew. Like, we know a lot of what they could have done, because smart people are telling us, maybe Ilya and Heather.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Didn'T know why go through the hack? It just seems so silly to me to go through everything it takes to hack and, like, all the risk and then not be able to get your reward.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Stuck online and then not know where to go next.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah. Well, because what they do, instead of just getting on a plane and going to Russia, they get married.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's 2021. These idiots are getting married. Everyone was shocked. All of the friends are kind of dreading it because these two are so fudgeing. Annoying.

[Patrick Hines]

Nobody. They don't have any real friends. These are all friends from, like, 10 years ago. Nobody wants to go to this thing.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They're. They're includes the song I hate the Final Countdown.

[Patrick Hines]

I know oh, God, I hate that song too.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I know. It's irrational. Mike can tell you. I hate it so much. I just can't stand it. I know. It's a me thing.

[Patrick Hines]

I was like, of course. Well, that's not the only song their wedding has, because Heather promises to drop her new single at the wedding.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, first of all, it looks like they're in, like, a hybrid warehouse slash conference room.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She's quote rapping.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She's appropriating cultures. All the lights are on for some reason.

[Patrick Hines]

They're like overhead fluorescent lights.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It ends up being a razzle con conc. The groom is nowhere in sight. They get married. They have an after party. More rapping, more dancing.

[Patrick Hines]

But they have this after party at, like. It's like a secret party at some, like, LA mansion that they rented.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Headlights are on.

[Patrick Hines]

But that's what I'm saying.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's a bad party.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't look fun to me at all. It looks like bad karaoke with all the lights on. It's as bright as the studio.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And like, cultural appropriation. It's so bizarre.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

But there's also a raffle in the wedding.

[Patrick Hines]

There was this raffle that happened. Ilya, he announced that he was giving away, like, an ice iPhone and a PlayStation. And they also gave away some gift cards.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

We found out they had purchased prepaid.

[Patrick Hines]

Gift cards with bitcoin. The gift cards is where we get in trouble.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Because they're trying to launder money.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

With gift cards with.

[Patrick Hines]

They finally feel like if. Because their bitcoin is so traceable, if they buy gift cards, then the gift cards are untra. They're going to try to launder four and a half billion dollars in Uber and Amazon gift cards.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's ridiculous.

[Patrick Hines]

Idiots.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And I was just thinking too, like, if you are using this bullshit wedding to launder money, throw a better party, for the love of God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Make it destination. We'll pay for everybody. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Like, resent it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, but it's like, really, truly, what is. The only thing they could have done was go to Russia and find somebody there to help them. Like, go to the government and be like, well, I'll give you half the money if you get the money out for me. They absolutely would have done it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right. I don't know why they. It's so.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that they were just waiting. Like, I think that they maybe didn't how close on their heels the government actually was.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Maybe.

[Patrick Hines]

And they thought maybe they had more.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Time I guess they figured, oh, it's been this long, right? Who cares?

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Because they just keep making spectacles of themselves.

[Patrick Hines]

Chris is saying it was one of two things. Either they knew that they were about to get arrested and go to jail for the rest of their lives, so they were going down in a blaze of glory, or they had no idea how close the government actually was to them, because they could have just gotten on a plane and gone to Russia at any time.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So the government is able to track the gift cards back to Heather and.

[Patrick Hines]

Ilya in, like, Uber gift cards. It's so good.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Two seconds.

[Patrick Hines]

At this point, the government has a pretty good idea that Heather and Ilya are in some way involved in this hack. But the problem is law enforcement doesn't have access to the stolen bitcoin. They can watch this bitcoin wallet, but they can't seize the money without the private keys.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The government can't do that without a password. And it would take a computer 13 billion years to guess it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Like, that's the thing about bitcoin, is that, like, there was a guy I was telling you about who had $18 million. He Bough Bitcoin for nothing. And at its height, it was he had $18 million in Bitcoin, and he couldn't get to it because he lost his password. And if you lose your password, you're out. There is no reset your password. There's no one coming to help you. Like, if you lose your password, it's over. So his money is just there. And he'll never be able to.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And no one will.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And no one will in that wild. And so that's the thing about these passwords is that, like, the government can't actually do anything until they actually seize the money, but they can't seize the money because they don't have the passwords.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And we got to put a stop to razzle con. I know, honestly, because, like, that's how she's going to keep trying to launder it with the. The gift cards and the music videos. Like, we have to put an end to this. Travel down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

Back again, girl. Chime is back. Look, fam, when you open a Chime checking account, you are one step closer to a better financial future.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. There are no maintenance fees, Right. They have fee free overdraft up to 200 bucks.

[Patrick Hines]

Come on.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You can get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. I mean, like, making financial progress has never been easier.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And if you want access to your payday before payday, you can use my pay to get up to 500 bucks of your pay before payday with no mandatory fees or interest.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. Learn [e-mail] TCO I mean, this is amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the fee, free overdraft up to 200 bucks alone would have saved my financial life when I was in my 20s.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Yeah. So it's called Spot Me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So you can overdraft up to $200 without fees with Spot Me when you set up qualifying direct deposits.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And by. By the way, today Chime has spotted members over $30 billion.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's with a B.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, there are 50,000 fee free ATMs. I told you that I one time paid a $6 fee to get $20.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Because I needed the cash.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So you paid $26?

[Patrick Hines]

I paid $26.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Not with Chime.

[Patrick Hines]

Not with Chime.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Who's 50,000? That sounds. That's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It's amazing.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

So, fam. Make progress toward a better financial future with Chime.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Open your account in 2 minutes at chime.com tco that's chime.com.

[Patrick Hines]

Chime feels like progress.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank. NA members. Fdic, Spot ME eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. MyPay eligibility requirements apply. Credit limits range 20 to $500. $2 fee applies to get funds instantly. Chime checking account required. Go to chime.com disclosures for details. So it's January 5, 2022. The police knock on the door at 5:00am they wake up Heather and Ilia.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because they've got a warrant. Because now, even though they can't, they don't have the passwords. They've got enough to get a warrant. So they're thinking, we're going to turn their house upside down and find the password. They wrote it down. It's got to be somewhere.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And the cops say, look, you can either stay here and watch us rifle through your stuff, or you can leave and come back in a few hours when we're done. Now Heather wants to take her cat. I get it.

[Patrick Hines]

She's got the smartest idea. She's had this whole document irs.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Chris is over it. He's like, you want to talk about the cat? Everyone wants to talk about the cat. Fine, we'll talk about the cat.

[Patrick Hines]

She's lying. She does. She doesn't want the cat. She wants to run into her bedroom with her phone and jam it shut. And hitting all the numbers.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The cat is scared because, like, people are just like busting. And so the cat goes to hide under the bed and she sees this, she goes, aha.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So she. They allow Heather to go under her bed to try to get the cat, but in reality, Heather was on her phone trying to lock it. It doesn't work.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So it's kind of an odd story, Chris. Don't worry about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, don't worry about it. So they seize all of this stuff. They don't find the passwords and they can't arrest them.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

No. So after the search warrant, these two really could have gone anywhere. Yes, because they know the cops are on their tail, they know the IRS has them, they could go anywhere. And they go.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Chris even says if they don't want to go to Russia, there are plenty of countries they can go to that have non extradition treaties with the United States. They could have gone anywhere.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Now the best place for them to go, like we said, Russia.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

But In January of 2022, Russia attacks Ukraine.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So that makes it impossible for them to go to that part of the world they still could have gone to. They had other options, Venezuela, anywhere. And they have connections to countries that don't have extradition treaties, but they're just chilling in New York City like nothing.

[Patrick Hines]

Ever happens, making videos about donuts and cats and it's just like nail salons.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Complaining about their AirPods pancakes.

[Patrick Hines]

Somebody says that Heather becomes so addicted to making videos and being on the Internet that she literally couldn't stop.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I mean, I believe that and I agree with that. Like, they're addicted to being annoying. Whatever attention it gets them, good, bad and different. And I guess mostly Heather, because we don't see Ilya in these videos.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. He must still be in his room trying to get the goddamn money out. Like that's what's happening.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So IRS Chris is here to bring it all home. And he's like. Then we started finding spreadsheets that were encrypted where other files were not encrypted. And so they just stuck out. And I won't get in to how we access the files, leave it for the FBI to tell that story one day. But once we did, it had this kind of slow burn of like, is this can't be this?

[Patrick Hines]

I think it is this.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

But we got in and I'm like, holy shit.

[Patrick Hines]

He's in his home office when he like, stumbles upon a spreadsheet that has all of the passwords to the bitcoin wallet. Yeah, it's I mean, it is. It's the best day of Chris's life.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They call it an electronic smoking gun.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So February 8, 2022, they're arrested and they instantly start speaking to each other in Russian.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

To try to communic without anyone knowing what they're saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we learn that in the accounts there's only $3.6 billion. Only they've been able to launder at least $1 billion of it. Like, where's all that money? Only I know, but like, they got away with a billion dollars. Like, where's the money? We're going to learn that she's been burying gold coins in the woods. I'm like, finally somebody's taking my advice after all the after.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And it's got to be razzle con. So it's all over the news, right? And then and now, like, the narrative is turning into like, but did they really do anything wrong? Like they stole a bunch of fake money? Bitcoin bros deserve it anyway. There are people sort of like, are they hometown heroes? Like, what's going on?

[Patrick Hines]

This is one of those things where everyone wants to say it's a victimless crime. It's not true. There were a lot. We've met people throughout the doc that like, invested the little bit of money they had in bitcoin. Like this One guy invested $10,000 over the time that the hack happened, would have earned $250,000. That's life changing money. But he's not going to get that money now because his bitcoin's gone.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And the company itself, Bitfinex, was the thing that got hacked. And so they're trying to give people compensation. But like, these people don't want 15 bitcoins. They want the $250,000 that it would have grown into.

[Patrick Hines]

They're giving them compensation for what was lost on the day of the hack. So this guy is getting the equivalent of the $10,000 he had in Bitcoin, not the $250,000 that Bitcoin would be worth now.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't want 15 bitcoins.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Well, you would want 15 bitcoins.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Do I?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah. The big. The bitcoins themselves are each worth like a million dollars. Like you're buying like pieces of bitcoin so much about. It's weird. I know the actual bitcoins, the full bitcoin is wor of money.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Let me ask you something.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I decide this is never happening. We're in a parallel universe. I walk out of here and I'm like, do you know what I need? I need. I want to. I want bitcoin.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

How do I get a bitcoin? Like, how do I get $1 of Bitcoin?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know the answer, but it's so googleable, you could get it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I'm sure now.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, you could buy it on any exchange.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And so bitcoin. Is that a different kind of currency than, like, an nft?

[Patrick Hines]

I have no idea about nft. I know nothing.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So they're different. They're both cryptocurrency, but they're not the same thing.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that's correct. Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Thanks. I don't know any. I have no idea.

[Patrick Hines]

And.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And I don't want to know everyone.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know. I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Don't waste your DM on that. I don't care. So I like my money right where.

[Patrick Hines]

I can see it, 100%.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

As Carrie Bradshaw says, hang it in my closet. That's also not me either, but they are awaiting trial. So Ilia's in custody. Heather's allowed to work from home, which is interesting.

[Patrick Hines]

Ilia is a more of a flight risk. Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I mean, the real crime is Razzle Khan.

[Patrick Hines]

If we're being honest, she should be sentenced to death for that. You thought you were going to get.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Me Ms. Anti Death Penalty to crack on that one? No. Let her rot.

[Patrick Hines]

Life in prison.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Razzle Khan is a real crime.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So they should probably cooperate with the government, right? Like, that's what everyone is saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because they say the government wins 97% of their cases. So I'm like. And cooperate with them.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And the thing is.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, you know what I mean.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You say that in such a way where it's like, duh, but it's like.

[Patrick Hines]

You'Re not going to get away with. You know what I mean? Like, you stole $4.5 billion of Bitcoin.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Well, the point is, too, they actually have something to barter because there's, like, a billion dollars that couldn't find.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So maybe if they told the government where it was, they'd go easy on them. That's the thought.

[Patrick Hines]

And how they did it. Like, the government is saying, are there other websites we should be looking at?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

How do you have it?

[Patrick Hines]

You want to see in the world 100.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Because they're like, why don't you tell us how you did this, help us with other cases, and then maybe you'll just, like, be on probation or something.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, the case is going along, but then we're back with that guy Brett, the former hacker, the guy who invented crypto crime or whatever. And he's saying no one is talking about Ilya's dad here. No one loses mind, right? He's like, losing his mind that, like, nobody wants to talk about the fact that, like, Ilya's dad is like the king Head Hacke or even better than me. Then all of a sudden, the case started being postponed. Postponed, postponed until finally one day, it's matter of national security. So Brett's like giving this information out to everybody, which stops the Kate's dead in its tracks. And we'll never know why.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Because something about these documents that he has access to that prove that Ilya's dad is involved here, has something to do with national security that we'll never know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And no one is allowed to talk about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Nope.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So, okay, yeah, I mean that. Take that how you will, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

And so, like, this is the only reason why Ilya and Heather didn't go to prison for the rest of their lives. Because all of a sudden they can't charge them with all of the shit they were going to charge them with. Because that would mean submitting these documents into open court. And then we would learn things about the US government that we're not allowed to know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So these people get away with it because. Because we can't know what's in these documents. Isn't that insane?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And like, what did Ilya's dad do? What does he know? What is different? It's really. It's really.

[Patrick Hines]

Somebody buy a condo from him in Chicago, get him a loan. He's a real estate guy in Chicago now.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Unsettling.

[Patrick Hines]

A real estate agent, by the way. He doesn't, like, own properties, he's like, doing rentals.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

He's doing rentals?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Wow. You can make a shit ton of money being an agent, though.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I'm just saying that, like, Ilya's dad is somehow very important to national security and we don't know why.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I mean, isn't that a great way to launder money, though?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah. Oh, sure.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Through properties.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

See, you know more than we think.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

You know, I'm just asking. That was a question, question mark at the end of that sentence. August 2023, Washington D.C. there's a plea hearing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

They say something that really was a gut punch.

[Patrick Hines]

What was it?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That was the. This is the quote.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That was the day a former president was turning himself in. And I'm like, oh, remember when it was former?

[Patrick Hines]

I know it all Happened the same day.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The same day. They say it was a literal circus outside.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So here's what happens at the plea deal. Heather and Ilya couldn't interact with each other. Obviously.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Ilya confessed to being the hacker, full stop.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

He stole all the username and passwords. He operated totally, 100% alone. Heather only got involved with the money laundering. And she also destroyed evidence and threw laptops away.

[Patrick Hines]

She threw a laptop down the chute. She buried gold coins in the woods. Like, that's my favorite part of this whole documentary.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

She just ran to where I go to the Pine Barren.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, where she goes Central Park.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Heather pleads guilty. She's, quote, let go.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And Ilya has been in prison ever since.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

While Heather is living her life, going to crypto conferences with no sense of irony.

[Patrick Hines]

Further to what his dad knows that, like, touched national security in such a way that we couldn't produce these.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Talk about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Ilya as part of his plea deal.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

During the plea hearing, the judge had informed Ilya that there was an offer to enroll him in the witness protection program. That actually stood out to me because it's like, why would this guy go on to witness protection over a case like this? The offer is rare.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And saying no, I don't know if it has ever happened.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Like, what?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's for Sammy the Bull left it. Which we'll get to when we cover that stupid fucking documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, great.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

But, like, he was offered to go into witness protection, which again, should make you go, what?

[Patrick Hines]

What are we talking about?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And he said no.

[Patrick Hines]

And he said no. It's crazy.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It doesn't make any sense.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

So now it ends with everyone saying that, like, nothing adds up, Things don't make any sense. You know who else is saying that? Ilya.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Ilya wrote to the filmmakers from prison. He can't talk about the case, but he says there's more to the story. And I'm like, but is there?

[Patrick Hines]

Right? But there must be.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

There has to be. But also, every. Everything about this is so annoying, where I'm like, are you just doing that thing?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I feel like there's more to the story about him and his dad. Like, what is going on there?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And like, where is his dad in this? And his dad has never appeared.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's crazy.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It's weird. So we get like a bunch of on screen, screen text at the end that. On November 14, 2024, Ilya was sentenced to five years, plus three years of supervised release. He did not respond to a request to answer further questions. But he did send that letter that.

[Patrick Hines]

He wants to talk eventually, but he can't right now. Right.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

On November 18, 2024, Heather was sentenced to 18 months and three years of supervised release. She declined to participate. Heather, I googled. She actually started her sentence in February of 2025.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, shit. So it just started.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

It just started. Eugene Lichtenstein. Did not. Which is Ilya's father.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Did not respond to multiple requests to participate in this film. Shocking.

[Patrick Hines]

Shocking.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Keeping his mouth shut.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And that's kind of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of it. Why does he not want to go into the witness protection? I'm very curious.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The thing that got hacked, that Bitfinex wants everyone to know that its refund plan is among the most successful compensation plans in the cryptocurrency industry. I don't know. Maybe make it so that this can happen. Is that.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Really dick thing for me to say. I'm really asking, like, is that impossible?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, they hacked into their server. How did you not know there were hackers in your server getting people's passwords? That's crazy to me.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I just feel like. And again, I don't care. I know, but, like, I feel like this needs to be done better somehow.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I'm not the girl to do it. Yeah.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I don't give a shit about it either way, but it just seems like it's so easy. You get one. Really? Two, three. Smart hackers. Bada bing, bada boom. $4.4 million. A billion is just, like, floating in the ether.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Only to see the light of day through Uber gift cards. It only. The $4 billion only lets out of its little cage.

[Patrick Hines]

Uber gift cards.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Gift cards.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

And a bad rap career.

[Patrick Hines]

Make it make sense.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Oh, my God. I can't.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, girl. We did. What's it called?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

The biggest heist ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I'm sick of the derpy heers.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I want better heers next time around. We're not doing a heist until they're better.

[Patrick Hines]

Go watch our episode on YouTube. Go watch it right now if you haven't yet. It's so fun. True Crime Obsessed podcast. Join our D.C. our. Join our Discy.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

We're having a lot of fun in there. No one calls it Disky or dc, but you can still join and have fun. I can't wait now. Tomorrow it's gonna be like, hey, diskies.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey, diskies. Don't do that to Jillian. She's in there way more than me. She'll hate it. What are we doing next, girl?

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Southern fried lies on peacock.

[Patrick Hines]

Ooh, what's that now? I'm starving.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

I'm starving, too. Her name is Donna. She's a real piece of work.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all I'll say.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

That's all I'll say.

[Patrick Hines]

Treat yourself.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, fam. We love you. Thanks for hanging out. We love you. Yeah. All right. That's it.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

All right. See you next time.

[Patrick Hines]

Goodbye.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Bye. I'd never seen a case like this. Money laundering, aggravated identity theft, wire fraud.

[Patrick Hines]

Let alone potential murder.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

What a story it was. I mean, it was so twisted. Y' all. Don't make me look like no hit. I had never heard a bad word about Donna Herring until.

[Patrick Hines]

Matthew.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

Seth Jacobs was probably the richest guy in Camden, and everyone knew it. Matthew's estate was about $2 million.

[Patrick Hines]

And bless his heart, he didn't know who.

[Jillian Bethel Valley]

To trust and where to turn.