431: Southern Fried Lies

Summary

True Crime Obsessed - Episode 431: Southern Fried Lies

Release Date: May 27, 2025

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Summary

In Episode 431 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Southern Fried Lies," hosts Jillian Betzavali and Patrick Hines unravel a chilling narrative of deceit, manipulation, and mysterious deaths in Camden, Arkansas. This episode delves into the life of Matt Jacobs, his tragic death, the sinister actions of Donna Herring, and the subsequent unraveling of a fraudulent scheme that implicated multiple individuals within his circle.

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1. Introduction to Camden's Dark Secrets [00:00 – 02:09]

The episode kicks off with Jillian and Patrick engaging in their characteristic witty banter before diving into the heart of today's true crime story. They set the stage for a complex case involving Matt Jacobs, Donna Herring, and a series of suspicious deaths that have left the small town of Camden reeling.

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2. The Tragic Death of Matt Jacobs [02:09 – 05:00]

Matt Jacobs, a hardworking oil rig worker, met an untimely death on January 19, 2015, in what initially appeared to be a straightforward car accident. However, inconsistencies soon emerged, sparking suspicions of foul play.

• Quote [02:21]: Patrick Hines: "Southern fried lies. This is on Peacock and Oxygen. I'd never seen a case like this. Money laundering, aggravated identity theft, wire fraud. What a story it was."

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3. Enter Donna Herring: The Overbearing Manipulator [05:00 – 14:00]

Donna Herring, the wife of Doug Herring who owns the local pest control business, quickly becomes the central figure in the aftermath of Matt's death. Portraying herself as a supportive figure, Donna's true intentions begin to surface as Matt's family grows wary of her intrusive behavior.

• Quote [03:06]: Patrick Hines: "Donna Herring, she's like the star of this thing. She sucks."

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4. The Fraudulent Will Unveiled [14:00 – 29:00]

Months after Matt's death, a new will surfaces—crafted online just five days posthumously, leaving Matt's substantial estate to Donna and her daughter, Alex Peterson. Tax attorney Adam Reed's forensic analysis exposes the will's fraudulent nature, revealing that it was created using a dubious online template and forged with Matt's signature.

• Quote [26:19]: Patrick Hines: "She made a fake will and used one of Matt's signatures that she had from when he bought the house."

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5. The Mysterious Death of Jimmy Davis [29:00 – 35:00]

Adding layers to the intrigue, Jimmy Davis, Matt's colleague at the pest control business, dies under suspicious circumstances—an apparent accidental drowning found beneath a bridge. The proximity of his death to Matt's fuels speculations of a connected conspiracy.

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6. FBI Intervention and Exhumations [35:00 – 58:00]

FBI Special Agent Tanya is brought in to investigate the irregularities surrounding the deaths and the fraudulent will. Her investigation leads to the exhumation of Matt's body, aiming to uncover hidden truths beneath the surface.

• Quote [53:27]: Jillian Betzavali: "It's unbelievable."

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7. The Downfall of Donna Herring [58:00 – 76:00]

As evidence mounts, Donna faces multiple charges, including wire fraud, money laundering, and aggravated identity theft. Her eventual guilty plea to wire fraud results in a 41-month prison sentence, while her daughter Alex is also implicated for obstruction and other charges. The financial spoils intended for Alex are quickly dissipated on lavish expenditures, estranging her further from the grieving family.

• Quote [73:11]: Patrick Hines: "Donna, we don't believe you. We don't believe you."

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8. Lingering Mysteries and Unanswered Questions [76:00 – End]

Despite Donna's incarceration, questions linger about the true extent of her involvement in the deaths of Matt Jacobs and Jimmy Davis. The mysterious suicide of Lori Skin, another key figure connected to Matt, adds another layer of complexity and suspicion, leaving the community and Matt's family searching for answers.

• Quote [82:01]: Patrick Hines: "So Jordan got almost all of his dad's estate, the money, three houses."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [02:21] Patrick Hines: "Southern fried lies. This is on Peacock and Oxygen. I'd never seen a case like this. Money laundering, aggravated identity theft, wire fraud. What a story it was."

• [03:06] Patrick Hines: "Donna Herring, she's like the star of this thing. She sucks."

• [14:12] Patrick Hines: "He was looking for a place to, 'like, come and have that kind of relationship.'"

• [26:19] Patrick Hines: "She made a fake will and used one of Matt's signatures that she had from when he bought the house."

• [35:21] Patrick Hines: "It was treated like a homicide. So we learn the eyewitnesses statements say he was at a convenience store on Cash Road and purchased beer, which was not uncommon. He left the convenience store and was walking back to his house, and then disappeared."

• [53:27] Jillian Betzavali: "It's unbelievable."

• [73:11] Patrick Hines: "Donna, we don't believe you. We don't believe you."

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Conclusion

"Southern Fried Lies" masterfully weaves a tale of ambition, manipulation, and the quest for truth. Jillian and Patrick guide listeners through a maze of deceit orchestrated by Donna Herring, whose actions not only defrauded Matt Jacobs' family but also led to a series of unexplained deaths. The episode highlights the devastating impact of greed and manipulation, leaving audiences questioning the true cost of deceit in a tightly-knit community.

Join the Community: For more in-depth discussions, exclusive bonus episodes, and to support the show, visit patreon.com/truecrimeobsessed.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the main narrative and key developments of the episode.

Transcript

[Jillian Betzavali]

The idiot daughter eventually bought a party barge. She bought multiple.

[Patrick Hines]

I had to Google what that was.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Multiple party barges.

[Patrick Hines]

Did you know what that was?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. Is that just a gay thing? Do I just know about it? Because gay.

[Patrick Hines]

I was like, what are those two words together? And then I looked it up and I was like, oh, that thing.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But I think the gays go on. Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

For some reason I was like, that's. Oh, yeah, that's what it's called, I guess. Hi.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Jillian Betzavali.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Girl. Did you know that we have a TCO book club that has like 400 members plus?

[Patrick Hines]

I didn't know that.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's wild. It's moderated by Sash. They meet once a month. If you can't make it to the meeting, like, it's all in the chat, it's in the discord, it's in the Facebook group. It is a thriving, thriving community. Now if you want to join the book club, all you got to do is go to the Facebook group. There's a featured post where you just fill out a quick thing. It takes maybe 20 seconds and then that's it. You're in the club. Sasha will either text or email you.

[Patrick Hines]

All the info and everyone's like voting on the books. It's a major group effort.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, people love it. It's a really great, really fun, really new thing that we're doing. And I'm obsessed fun.

[Patrick Hines]

We also have a Patre.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Tell us everything.

[Patrick Hines]

We have a Patreon. It's where we do all of our bonus episodes. So we do all of like the long form series. So we're doing like Fox Hollow Murders right now. We're going to do a Body in the Snow about the first Karen Reid trial.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, I can't. I was thinking today, I cannot wait to do the Karen Reid thing with you.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, the Karen retrial is playing in my apartment.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I feel like we need Natalie Grillo as like a special guest. We need her mother, Nina, because she's from Massachusetts, as am I. If you're from Massachusetts, it is like the only thing that's happening in your life right now.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you, are you watching the child?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I'm not. I'm not. Everybody in my family is. I know the whole thing is crazy, but we have 450 full ad free bonus episodes over there in the Patreon. We also have a tier where we send you stuff in the mail. Sometimes like at Christmas you get the calendar. And at Pride Month, we're about to send out our big Pride gift that we send out every year. It's really awesome. I'm not gonna tell you what it is.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we do fun things. We do, like, old school Unsolved Mysteries episodes, too.

[Jillian Betzavali]

They do get their own episodes. We've done episodes about the Loch Ness monster.

[Patrick Hines]

We're doing one about that guy Tyler, who probably faked. Who definitely faked amnesia. It's like, crazy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Anyway, fam, it's patreon.com true crime obsessed. You can just tap the link in the show notes here if you'd like, Girl, what are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

Ugh. Southern fried lies. This is on Peacock and Oxygen. I'd never seen a case like this. Money laundering, aggravated identity theft, wire fraud.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Let alone potential murder.

[Patrick Hines]

What a story it was. I mean, it was so twisted, y' all.

[Lance Reed]

Don't make me look like no hit. I had never heard a bad word about Donna Herring until.

[Patrick Hines]

Matthew. Seth Jacobs was probably the richest guy in Camden and everyone knew it. Matthew's estate was about $2 million.

[Lance Reed]

And bless his heart, he didn't know who to trust and where to turn.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Now, I gotta say, this is pretty well made.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Now look, okay? Donna Herring, she's like the star of this thing. She sucks.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The minute the first words uttered in this documentary.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know.

[Lance Reed]

Quote, I don't know. More believing the MeToo movement than my butt has beat anorexia. And that's just my opinion, Everybody. Don't be sending me hate mail. Are we going to get an Oscar? That's what I want to know.

[Patrick Hines]

Then she asked if she's going to win an Oscar. I don't know if this is your intention, Oxygen, but I instantly hate this person.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Good job. I guess.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She's a terrible, terrible person.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, we got misogyny and fatphobia literally within the first five seconds.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

What are we doing here?

[Jillian Betzavali]

But. But I think maybe the oxygen is telling us exactly who this person is.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I'm just like, oh, it's going to be a long 90min.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Know, I gotta say, it is. And it's polarizing, but it's refreshing to, like, watch a really. Like, it was a solidly made documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it was a cool 90 minutes and not eight episodes.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is very helpful.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Although towards, like, the last 10 minutes, it did start to feel like it was eight hours a little bit. You know what I mean? So it's broken up into three parts. Part one is called A Mysterious Death, and this concerns the death of a man named Matt Jacobs on January 19th, 2015.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. We're in Camden, Arkansas, where this woman Donna describ as dog shit dumb. And I'm like, this is coming from the woman who doesn't believe women. But okay. A lot of judgment coming from Donna when she's like, the worst person in this documentary by far.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She legit doesn't believe in me too. Is that what she said?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't more believe in the MeToo movement than my butt has beat anorexia. Like, she's. She's being self deprecating about herself.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But she's dragging. And she needs everyone to know that she doesn't believe in the MeToo movement.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Wild idiots. Everybody's an idiot.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Except for Lance Reed. Lance is here. Lance is Matt's brother.

[Lance Reed]

Me and Matt like to hunt together and fish. Spend a lot of time on the water together. Family time.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Tell me what these two words mean. Hunting and fishing.

[Patrick Hines]

It's outside. It doesn't concern you. What's interesting, though, because Lance says that they spent a lot of family time together.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is two seconds after Donna says Matt was, quote, taken in by her family.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And was there. Like, he didn't move in, but he was there constantly.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And then we have his brother being like, no, we were great with our own family.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And this is the thing that's so frustrating when the victim is not here. To set the record straight, like, Matt had a great relationship with his family. He was going through a little bit of stuff with his son, which we'll get to in a minute. But, like, he had a really good family. And like, Donna is. They do this thing where they come in and out of every ad break with Donna going on and on and on and on and on about how close her and Matt were.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Total unreliable narrator.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And also there are these people talking about the situation at the local salon. Did you catch the name of it? No Head Games. No Head Games Salon down in Camden, Arkansas.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's good.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Back again, girl. Rocket Money is back. You know we love her. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. My favorite part about it not only, like, everything you just mentioned, you can see all of your subscriptions in one place.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That's how you can really look at your budget.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You're like, oh, I forgot I had this thing. Or this thing isn't really worth it. I'm not really using it. And that's how you grow your savings.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Because we all know that we sign up for that thing for the one week free trial, we forget that we have it. They count on it. They make it hard to do. They make it hard to cancel. That's where Rocket Money comes in. And Rocket Money will even try to negotiate to lower your bills. Family. They will automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save and then you can ask them to negotiate for you. They will deal with the customer service so that you do not have to.

[Patrick Hines]

Invaluable.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Invaluable. I'm obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

They also have this new feature, the goals feature. So it automatically saves money for you. You don't even have to think about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It helps pay off bills, put money away for a house, or just build your savings, which is incredibly important.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Wow. Fam. Rocket Money has over 5 million dol. Million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions. Probably just for me alone. Saving members up to $740 a year when they're using all of the app's premium features.

[Patrick Hines]

It's unbelievable.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's un. Where was this all of my life? Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Go to RocketMoney.com obsessed today.

[Patrick Hines]

That's RocketMoney.com obsessed.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's RocketMoney.com Obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Which we are. We haven't been perfectly clear.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Absolutely are.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jordan Jacobs is Matt's son. Matt had Jordan when Matt was 17 years old and they got divorced when Jordan was like three or four. Yeah. So Jordan really missed having Matt, his father, around because he was living with his mother.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. And there was stuff going on with Jordan and Matt when Matt died. We'll get into that in a minute.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Donna is saying. Donna, the horrible woman is saying that.

[Lance Reed]

Matt grew up crazy about his mama and when she died, that broke his heart. He would say, I appreciate that you treat me like my mom did. You're like a mom to me. He just wanted somewhere to come and eat Sunday dinner. Somewhere to come and have that family atmosphere.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He was looking for a place to, quote, like, come and have that kind of relationship.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like a mother figure. Says Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Says Donna.

[Patrick Hines]

So Matt was a very hard worker. He worked on oil rigs, which is a very tough job.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my. That's the kind of thing where you go away like weeks at a time. Right. My friend Shasta, her one time boyfriend did that job.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. He would be gone for like three weeks and it's really fucking dangerous.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Jordan, as we're gonna see, and Jordan, Matt's son, was like, super inspired by his dad. He really looked up to him that he had this job.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's very high paying.

[Patrick Hines]

So April 20, 2010, is when the Deepwater Horizon oil spill happened. It is the biggest oil spill in American history. Eleven people died. It was a major, big explosion. Matt was there.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Somehow not everybody there died, which I don't understand, but 11 people died. Mat big fall during the evacuation and really messed up his hip. And that's going to kind of like him up for the rest of his life.

[Patrick Hines]

And he also had PTSD from just surviving something like this. I mean, Matt was on the news talking about it when it happened, and.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It'S Jordan, his son, is just saying, like, it went from being like. Like, my dad was so much fun to be around to. All of a sudden, you didn't want to be in the same room with him because he was heavily medicated. He's dealing with his PTSD and his mental health struggles. And anytime you were around him, you just kind of felt like you were bothering him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like he preferred being alone. He was sort of isolating. So there's a class action lawsuit and mat $1.7 million in this lawsuit.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like, holy shit.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jordan's like, I got to tell you, like, that made him happy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

But people were also taking advantage of him.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. I mean, like, once that happens, he became the richest guy in town.

[Lance Reed]

That was a pretty big topic about how much money he had gained from the settlement and decided he wanted to get a house. He went to century 21. And that's where he met.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's where he met Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And this is where he meets Donna.

[Patrick Hines]

Did you know that you inadvertently quoted It's a Wonderful Life, which is my favorite toast of all time?

[Jillian Betzavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

When George Bailey's brother says, to my big brother George, the richest man in town, meaning, like. Cause he's rich with, like.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, rich with love.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, it's so good. But at my aunt's wedding. Cause she loves that movie. Her now husband, his best man gave. That was his best man speech.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Aw.

[Patrick Hines]

To my kid brother Mike.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's very sweet.

[Patrick Hines]

Isn't that great?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, that's really cute.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I was once at a wedding where the maid of honor said, and I quote, during her toast, they were twins. And she said of her sister, 33 years ago, Jesus sent a beautiful baby into this family. Me.

[Patrick Hines]

And then my sister came two minutes later. Because, you know, twins really care about when they were born.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It was at a winery. It was a Catholic wedding, and I spit wine all over the table.

[Patrick Hines]

Fun.

[Jillian Betzavali]

So fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Did everyone else laugh, too? Was. Everyone laughed?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Including the bride?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Well, the bride laughed, but the sister was pretty hammered. So I didn't know when the night was young, so I did not know.

[Patrick Hines]

When no one knew what was coming. This is just the beginning. Off to a roaring start.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I did fall asleep out in the vineyard, like, at midnight. They did have to wake. They did have to go, quote, looking for me.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow. Sounds like a hell of a wedding. So, yeah. May 2012. Matt wants to buy a house with his money, and that's where he meets Donna. Now, Donna, like, interjects.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I was. Because we hear everybody, like, it's. We learned that Matt wants to buy a house. Then we cut back to the salon where everybody's talking about Donna. And I was like, donna does not like that people are talking about her. Except that she also loves it.

[Patrick Hines]

She. I mean, it's why she's here.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Let's be honest.

[Patrick Hines]

When you're the. Get real.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Donna. Hi. I know you're the villain, but would you like to be the star of the documentary? Yes, please.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. She can't wait. She can't wait. But Donna's here to, like, let everyone know.

[Lance Reed]

I did not sell him that house. Carolyn Avant sold him that house. He came in and he needed one piece of paper to be signed, and I met him then for two minutes. Congratulations. I'm proud for you. Welcome to the neighborhood.

[Patrick Hines]

He came in to sign a piece of paper, and that's it. And I'm like, right, but then you're going to Matt's house and bringing him food all the time, Right? Like. Like you're obsessed with him.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I mean, like, look, if you're the real estate agent, it makes sense you're trying to be friends with the richest guy in town. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I guess.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Back off.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know. I would like to.

[Patrick Hines]

She's so overbearing and weird.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I want to point out that anybody is welcome to bring me food at any time.

[Patrick Hines]

I think she always wanted to be, like, one of those toxic boy moms. Not all boy moms. I'm just saying, she's the type.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But, like, we're going to learn. Donna has done a very good job at befriending every important person in town.

[Patrick Hines]

Well.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And suddenly Matt's one of those people because he's got so much money, Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Donna Explains that she met her first husband at a bar and she says that he didn't understand that he couldn't keep dating once they were married.

[Jillian Betzavali]

So she says that with a chuckle. So, I don't know, maybe things are okay between them.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, well, they like break up eventually. But before that they had a daughter, Alex, who apparently was sleeping in Donna's bed until she was like 11 or 12 years old.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And now I understand that impulse. I would never allow it. But, like, I loved Daisy sleeping in bed with us. Really, I really did.

[Patrick Hines]

But after, like, I was sick as a kid. Like, once you hit 11, you're like, that's when you're like a fully formed person.

[Jillian Betzavali]

11 is, is too old. Daisy is exactly 11 now. And like, she would never sleep in bed with us all night. But, like, we would go to bed and do stories and then like, she'd fall asleep with us and then I would like bring her into her room later and it. Parents, if I may, I'm not one to give advice about parenting, but I will say fight that urge because getting them to actually go to sleep on their own becomes a real challenge. Because when she got to be like 7 and 8 and it's like, okay, girl, time to go to bed, it was like, ref. Like, she just wanted this because she'd been like trained to sleep in bed with us.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, man.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But last night, you and I had a late night out and I didn't get to say goodnight this morning. I did go scoop her out of her bed and have her come snuggle with me for a little while. This is now a parenting project.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I'm sure Alex was mortified that her mother said this on Peacock and Oxford.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

But Doug, the new husband, the current husband, put an end to all that.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because I guess he was sleeping in the bed and there was no room for Alex.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Now, at the mention of Doug, the new husband's name, Doug apparently walks into the room. Like he walks into the room where the recording is being done. Everybody completely unprofessionally starts saying hello to him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Mid interview.

[Patrick Hines]

And then we get the on screen text. Doug declined to participate in this film. So mat, our victim here worked for Doug's pest control business. And the pest control business actually becomes a major player in the story.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, Matt, according to Donna, we're told was, quote, smitten with her daughter Alex. So she was 18 and he was 31.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. Which, okay, like, the age difference is a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Well, Jordan, Matt's son, agrees he doesn't like this. He's like, me and Alex are like the same age. And he also doesn't really like Alex as a person.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right. But he does. Jordan says, look, it was an uncomfortable.

[Lance Reed]

Situation for me at the time just because, you know, the same age pretty much. But I was like, makes you happy. Go for it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Being with her makes you happy, dad. You go ahead and do it, like, whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I mean, because I think he knew he wasn't gonna change his dad's mind and so you kind of have to go along to get along. But he makes it clear now, like, no, he was not a fan.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I just wonder how smitten he really was with Alex. Because we don't get it from like, his brother doesn't say anything about Alex. We only get it from Donna, who's like, he was head over heels in love. They were head over he in love with each other.

[Patrick Hines]

But we. This is one of your on screen text moments. Producers tried several times to contact Alex. She wanted nothing to do with this film.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I'm obsessed. So I know Alex just wants this story to go away.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And Donna wants to tell this story for the rest of her life.

[Patrick Hines]

She is telling it, but right now she's somewhere telling it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She, like, she's the worst. No, she is. She's. Yeah, she is.

[Patrick Hines]

So Matt and Alex get engaged. As we're told about this, they cut to Jordan, the sun rolling his eyes.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Donna says that's when everything became a mess.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. So this is. We cut to January 19, 2015. There's a car accident. And we meet the first responding officer, Officer James Bolton, and he tells us that a witness to the accident said the driver, for whatever reason, crossed five lanes of traffic and hit a tree.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is our victim, Matt. It's a fatal car crash.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Donna hears about this and is a wreck. Where's my boy? I'm like, donna, you need to stop.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You're weirdly obsessed with this person for his money. It's weird.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And she's overdoing it. Like, she's overdo and not that, you.

[Patrick Hines]

Know, he's a 32 year old man gonna be your son.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like, I know, I know. And she runs up to the scene demanding to see him. She's told he's gone, and she's like, where'd he go? Feigning this idea that she doesn't understand that he's gone means he's dead.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, when the cops tell Matt's brother Lance what happened Donna is there standing behind the cops.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. And. And like my. I was gonna say, how is that allowed? But we know it's allowed because Donna is best friends with everybody in town. She's best friends with the sheriff, she's.

[Patrick Hines]

An overbearing manipul marriage.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And she's got to be there when the story is told, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betzavali]

So we see Lance and Shawna. We're meeting Shawna for the first time. Shawna is Lance's wife, so Matt's sister in law.

[Patrick Hines]

She's so emotional about it even now, like she can't even get the words out when recounting because all she can.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Think about is Jordan. All she can think about is the son like any normal human being with a fucking heart. All she can think about is how this son just got his dad ripped out of his life. She says that she remembers in the middle of the chaos, they've just been told that Matt is dead. In the middle of the chaos, Donna.

[Patrick Hines]

Pulled me aside and she says, we need to start protecting Matt's stuff right now. And we need to make sure that nothing or no one gets to it. I'll never forget that. And I told her I'm not worried about that right now.

[Jillian Betzavali]

We need to start protecting Matt's stuff right now. We need to make sure no one gets to it.

[Patrick Hines]

And Shawna's like, his stuff.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What the hell are you talking about?

[Patrick Hines]

We just lost like someone so meaningful in our lives. You're talking about his stuff.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I think what Donna would say is like, well, you know, he's rich and everyone's out for his money. It's like, Donna, you are out for his money.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You are the only one out for his money.

[Patrick Hines]

Girl, you're weirdly obsessed with this person. Where's my boy? Like, that's so weird.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, and Shawna's just said that, like, hang on a second. In retrospect, or maybe even in the moment, suddenly nothing is making any sense because she's like, why did nobody call us from the accident scene? We're the next of kin. What is this woman even doing here? Plus, he's a young, fit guy with no history of medical issues. He drives this highway every single night. What happened that he just suddenly crossed five lanes of traffic, hit a tree and died? Yeah, they never addressed this. But he must not have been wearing a seatbelt.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, I guess not.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You know, I mean, and we do see the front impact of the car. Like the car is so like he was, you know, we're going to be told that he died from blunt force trauma from hitting the tree. Essentially.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But, like, it was. It was bad.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, while Donna is making tequila cake. Sounds disgusting.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Is the. Like, I can get behind a margarita. I love a margarita. I make a delicious margarita. I keep saying it's rooftop happy hour season. I make good margaritas.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But, like, tequila on its own. Warm. And she's, like, smelling it, and it makes me want to vomit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Tequila and I used to date exclusively. And then we had a really bad night one night. And now we can only each other in mixed company. So. A watermelon margarita. Yes. A shot of tequila. Those days are long gone.

[Jillian Betzavali]

A shot of tequila. Somebody at one of my shows recently tried to buy me a shot of tequila. And I. I. I got myself.

[Patrick Hines]

I know it was tequila. Remember her?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I. That still comes up on my. On my feet sometimes. I love it. It's so good. The. The bartender.

[Patrick Hines]

Only appropriate response.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God. He poured me like he saw my face. And he's like, you'll be having fun. No, girl. Yeah. It was. No.

[Patrick Hines]

We see Matthew's obituary.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's interesting. I paused on it, and I wanted. Because I wanted to see if Donna was in it. She is. Donna and Doug are listed as his, quote, special friends.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Isn't that crazy? He leaves to cherish his memory. His only son, Jordan. His fiance, Alex Peterson. His aunt. Like, all of these people. And the last people in that paragraph, his special friends, Doug and Donna Herring.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Excuse me. Special friends is reserved exclusively for 1980s obituaries to describe. You know.

[Patrick Hines]

And they were roommates.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly. Your eccentric brother. And his. And his. And his special friend. His longtime special friend.

[Patrick Hines]

So I also.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I take personal offense to this, that.

[Patrick Hines]

She, like, finagled her way into the obituary.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's unbelievable.

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy. Travel down the road.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Back again, girl. Photo booth supply company is a new sponsor. Can I tell you, I went to two events last month. Both of them had photo booths. And the line for the photo booths, it took up the entire space.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. No matter where you're going. A wedding, a party or whatever, whenever I walk in and there's a photo booth, I'm like, oh, yes. Oh.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And so the photo booth supply company is all about you owning your own photo booth so that you can have your own small business renting it out for these events. It's an incredible idea. I'm totally obsessed. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And their top earners make over six figures a year.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. I got on the call with these guys, and they were explaining to me how this works. And it's so simple. It's so easy. We're talking weddings, parties, corporate events. They all need photo booths. You get connected to these people, you rent the booth to them, and then bada boom, bada bing. You're one of their top earners.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. So you can do it if you want a side hustle or if you want this to be your full time business. That's also an option.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Now, if you don't know how to start this as a business, guess what? For a limited time, photo booth supply company will give you their quick start program for free. Loaded with all the resources you need to launch your business and make money this season. Look, if you're looking for a side hustle, this could totally be it.

[Patrick Hines]

And summer's the busiest season.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

So I'd get on it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. If you're curious how much you can make by running your own photo booth business, check out their free profit [e-mail] TCO just go and check it out.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, that's startphotobooth.com TCO startphotobooth.com TCo I'm.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Seriously considering doing this.

[Patrick Hines]

I think you should.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I'd be really good at this.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so fun to have at a party.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So Matt died on a Monday night. He was buried by Thursday. And Jordan, the Sun says, and I.

[Lance Reed]

Quote, donna was the choreographer.

[Patrick Hines]

She was controlling the whole. You couldn't grieve because she was too busy bossing you around to tell you.

[Lance Reed]

Who couldn't be by that casket.

[Patrick Hines]

Sister in law. Shawna's like, she controlled everything. She made a funeral video. You are weirdly obsessed with Matt.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And we got to talk about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She wants his money.

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But she said Shawna says you couldn't grieve because she was too busy bossing you around, telling everyone what to do. Donna, who are you?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know. Go away. And I was thinking, like, in that moment, you, like, the family might be grateful because, like, somebody else is there handling the details.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. But it's like you gotta be careful because nefarious things can happen.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, no. No question.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jordan, his son, is really struggling because I know he explains to us that the longer his dad was with Alex, Donna's daughter.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The more Jordan's relationship with his dad was strained. He says Alex definitely pushed me out. She saw me as a threat. It hurt me to see my dad completely forget his family. They're trying to isolate.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I Was just gonna say, like, no one's recognizing that. They're isolating him on purpose, and he's letting it happen. It's happening.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So after the funeral, though, Donna's around even more, trying to be a mother to Jordan. I really want to sl.

[Jillian Betzavali]

This is insane, because Jordan has a mother. Jordan lives with his mother.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And Jordan also lost his father.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's grieving, and he's going through that trauma. She's texting him things like, jordan, I love you. You're all I have left of your dad, and I want to be close. I will never hurt you, and neither will Alex. I need to stop on this.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I cannot tell you how toxic this is.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

There are people in my life who I love dearly, and people in their lives have done this to them. It is disgusting. It is so manipulative. You are all I have left of your dad. How dare you put that on Geor.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, if you really love someone, do not do this to them. It is vile.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He's a child, you know? Like, the manipulation of this kid is disgusting. And also, like, at the funeral, she's sitting between her daughter and Matt's son, holding both of their hands. Donna, like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

Stop.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And my question is, like, where's Jordan's actual mom? Like, where? Like, maybe she's being cool.

[Patrick Hines]

She refused to have anything to do with this thing. But here's where things get weird, because January. I mean, they've been weird, but January 27th, 28 days after Matt's death, Donna calls Matt's family. Donna called us and said that she had found this wheel that Matt has, like. But we'd never heard of this wheel before. Matt would have told us. Now I heard wheel, and I was like, two. Like a tire, every single one.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like the wheel of a car. Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Does that have to. Because it was a car accident.

[Jillian Betzavali]

This reminded me of the Benedict Cumberbatch penguin thing. Are you aware of this?

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Jillian Betzavali]

So he narrated a documentary where it was about penguins, and he said the word penguin. He said one time, and then it was penguin pengling. Penglings. Penguinglings. Like, it is why? There was a Graham Norton clip where Benedict Cumberbatch was on, and he was like. He showed the clip, and it was like, started with penguin, it evolved to penguin, then impaul evolved to pengling. It is the wildest. I don't know. And he embedded in Cumberbatch had no explanation for it either. But I heard wheel as the same way as I heard penguin.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. There's no producer being like, bened.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know. Also, what is going on with your ridiculous name? Are we gonna talk about that before we start filming?

[Patrick Hines]

I think we've been talking about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I mean, it's definitely not his real name.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like my favorite clip ever. It's that Ashley sent me once, and I was like, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. Marcia Brady saying werewolf instead of werewolf. She's like, but what about werewolves?

[Jillian Betzavali]

And you're like, wait, the real Marcia Brady?

[Patrick Hines]

Or like, not Christine Taylor.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Real Marcia Brady. There's an episode. Look it up on TikTok. I don't. The Brady Bunch is not my. I never watched. I mean, I. When it was on Nick at night or whatever, but I was more into the monkeys. But yeah. She says. She's like, but what about werewolves? And you're like, what is a werewolf?

[Lance Reed]

A werewolf.

[Patrick Hines]

A werewolf.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the best.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That is. Yeah. I'm going to send you the penguin pengling.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll send you werewolf.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's not a wheel. It's a will.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's a will.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a will.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Thank God for the closed captions for this one. I really need that.

[Patrick Hines]

We would have gotten there eventually, someday. But it's like, what? Anyway, Donna mentions a will that is supposedly Matt's, and it's the first time anyone in mat family is hearing about this.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Don is like, oh, it's in the safe. And brother Lance is like, my dad.

[Lance Reed]

Had a gun safe. Right after my dad passed away, Lance pulled everything out of the gun safe. Every shelf. Completely empty.

[Patrick Hines]

Very much not. Because I cleaned out that safe myself. And there was not a will in there.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And not to mention Shawna, Lance's wife, was like, if he had a will, we would know about it. He's the kind of guy who told us about paperwork and shit. If there was a will, we would've known.

[Patrick Hines]

So Donna goes to the safe, opens it. Cause she had the combination, which is.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Also fucking weird, to his gun safe. Like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Poof. There's a will.

[Jillian Betzavali]

There's a wheel.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're supposed to. A wheel.

[Jillian Betzavali]

There's a wheel. And a werewolf.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And a penguin.

[Patrick Hines]

A werewolf. So brother Lance took everything but the will out of that safe and then didn't say a word and is now lying about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly, Donna.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that what we're meant to believe now today, son? Jordan has a copy of the will, and he's like, reading through it and telling us about it. And he's upset. Like, even to this day, it's so. Like, just. It's so jarring because Matt left everything to the fiance, Alex.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. And Jordan says, I'm 17. I'm his only kid. And he leaves everything to someone he's been dating for a and a half. And I was like, but we don't believe this, right? Like, Jordan, like, you know this isn't right. Major red flag, right? And I mean, in the. I mean, I think it does take everybody a minute to realize that Donna's crazy. But, like, in the. Not you.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a long minute for a lot of people. Like, she told us exactly. Peacock. And Oxygen told us exactly who she was. Literally the first words uttered, you're like, oh, clock.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know, I know. But, like, in the moment, reading this will when everybody thinks it's real, I can see how brokenhearted you are because.

[Patrick Hines]

No one is thinking. I mean, I'm sure people are surprised by Will's all the time.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. You know, you said, will.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm gonna say it now. It's my werewolf. But Jordan's like, I'm in it. I am in the will. But however, he left Jordan $50,000 specifically for Jordan to go to college.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And he only gets it if he goes to college.

[Lance Reed]

And Jordan's like, $50,000 for college didn't make sense because he knew I didn't want to go to college. I wanted to go work in the oil field.

[Patrick Hines]

Jordan wanted to work on an oil field just like his father.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He wanted to, as Daisy would say, follow in his footsteps on the fucking oil rig.

[Patrick Hines]

College was never a thing. And Matt wasn't pushing college on him. Like, it was all very clear. And, like, Jordan was 17, so they would have been discussing college like he was at that age. So Jordan's like, something is very strange.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And Jordan, being the heart of this whole thing, says something like this several times throughout. He says, and anyway, I didn't even want my dad's stuff. I wanted my dad. Of course, you know, I didn't give a shit about this.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what Don is missing here.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, any warmth or human factor.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And because Don is like, well, Matt made that decision for Jordan so Jordan could do better and be better.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And I' because she's saying. And trying to make us believe Jordan and Matt didn't have a relationship at the time that Matt died. Right. And she's saying that there was all this drama. Of course. It makes sense. Like, Jordan Pulled away. His whole family pulled away. So of course he was mad and left everything to Alex and again, my daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure people get surprised by this all the time.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But in this context, based on everything we've learned so far, it's suspicious.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes, 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jordan saying, like, you know, I'm a 17 year old kid, I just lost my dad. And he's like, I felt really unloved.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you see this, like, last will and testament, you sort of take it for what it is. And Jordan's sort of whole life got turned upside down where he's like, so my dad just like, ditched me and like, went right over to Donna and Alex. Like, right. Like, did I even know him at all when he was here? And now he's gone. Like, it's totally throwing Jordan for a loop. Understandably.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But thank God for Uncle Lance being the adult in the room. He's like, no, no, no. This is. Not only is this suspicious, everything is suspicious. The will is suspicious, the manner of death is suspicious. Donna's involvement is. I'm just glad to see that, like, everyone's not an idiot here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because then Donna, like, cut to Donna and she's like, they can say what they want, they can bl on me or Alex or whatever, but there were plenty of issues in that family and they were there long before Matt met me or my daughter or anyone connected to me.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. And they're starting to talk about the car crash being suspicious. And like, the cops are here to say.

[Lance Reed]

Police report said that he never hit his brakes, that the car just kind of slowly drifted off, not breaking. Could suggest that they pass out.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Texting and driving. This could indicate texting while driving. And I got to tell you, that makes some sense to me, like, as a person who has literally never one time text while driving, one time had the impulse to do it, pulled my phone out, looked at it, went to do it, and I was like, nope, you cannot pay attention to the road and your phone at the same time. Now for him to cross five lanes of traffic and like, crash, that would have been a long fucking text. Yeah, so I don't know about that.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like, there were no other cars involved, no substances in Matt's system. He's a healthy 31 year old guy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, but so then like, the texting while driving in that sense does make.

[Patrick Hines]

A little sense because the police report says that Matt never hit the brakes. They say the car just kind of slowly drifted off. So it's like, did he Pass fall asleep at the wheel.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Wait a second. How could it have slowly drifted off and then he died? If it slowly drifted off, he would have hit the tree and been okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Betzavali]

It needed to have drifted off at like 60 miles an hour.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Or maybe he couldn't hit the brakes.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Well, right. That's the.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe something happened to the car, but.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It also feels like one of those things where like, somebody, like, killed him, put him in the car, and then set the car off on the road.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, here's the thing. The cops didn't think anything was weird. The medical examiner didn't think anyone was weird. They didn't even do an autopsy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Which I don't understand. Understand, like I. I have to be missing something here. I just don't understand why it's not standard.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I think I was thinking about this a lot today too, because the. The coroner's here to say he's like, nothing was suspicious. I know this guy sucks.

[Patrick Hines]

But Sylvester Smith, he.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He's the worst. But in. In his defense, he says, I didn't.

[Lance Reed]

See anything that would indicate foul play of any kind. And the coroner and the state police didn't either because they didn't deem it necessary for an autopsy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I'm not defending it. I think I'm with you. Every. There should be an autopsy every time. But I think what he's saying is, like, it's a. Maybe a drain on resources or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Fine. But they didn't tell the family that they didn't do an autopsy. So they didn't even give the family a chance to say no.

[Jillian Betzavali]

If the family requests an autopsy, do they automatically get.

[Patrick Hines]

Should.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I would. I would hope so.

[Patrick Hines]

But. So like it says, they kind of. They show on screen text for some. This is written in the police report. The police report. For some unknown reason, Mr. Jacobs lost control of the car he was driving and ran off the roadway. I don't know. Maybe an autopsy can help. Find out the unknown reason, you dummies.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I agree.

[Patrick Hines]

How can you write for some unknown reason and then not do the thing that could maybe answer this question?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, you're right. Because they're like, we'll. We'll get more into the details of it in a minute. But like, you know, he died of blunt force trauma, which they were saying came from the impact of having hit the tree. So when they looked at the body, there wasn't any blood anywhere in the car. It seemed to them to be clear cut. I'm with you. I think every death like this should have an Autopsy. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Or at least tell the family look, based on. Because Sylvester says, like, that's the law in Arkansas. And I'm like, well, we got to change a bunch of things about.

[Jillian Betzavali]

We got to get down to Arkansas and run for office girl there.

[Patrick Hines]

Again, there's like a darkness in West Memphis. Honestly, like, just being there. And I know I'm, like, super biased about it, but it's like you cross the bridge. Like, that's why we all stayed in Tennessee. Really stayed in Memphis. We didn't stay in Arkansas because Damian, Laurie were like, we can't, like, sleep there.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

But you go, it's. It's right over the bridge. Like that bridge that's in all the documentaries.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You are now entering Arkansas. It's that close.

[Jillian Betzavali]

We're talking about the west Memphis.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, I just think that the family, they weren't told about the autopsy, and it's kind of like they didn't want them to know that they could ask for it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And it's also like, we're going to learn in a minute that Donna is friends with all of these people. We see the sheriff in her kitchen for dinner. We see the corner in her. These people who decided not to do an autopsy are dear friends of Donna's.

[Patrick Hines]

Weird.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So because there's no definitive answer, the rumor mill goes crazy. And the town is speculating widely, a la Joan Calamazzo. Travel down, girl.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Good Wipes is back. It's time to talk about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So here's what we're gonna do today.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. We're gonna elevate your daily hygiene. They're flushable wipes.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

They deliver a superior clean that no dry toilet paper can match.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Get this. Good wipes are infused with soothing botanicals like aloe, vitamin E and chamomile. I mean, it already sounds so soothing.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, here's the thing. It's safe for sensitive skin.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which, you know, is important to me. They have a variety of scents, so, like rose water, shea, cocoa, lavender, cedar. Their newest one is botanical bliss. If you're into the florals.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, they're super soft. They feel so much better than other wipes. They're actually flushable, like Jillian instead made with plant based fibers. So they break down super easy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Free from harsh chemicals. Parabens and dyes. Like, so many times you get sucked into, like. Oh, these are flushable, right?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're actually not.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Good wipes are flushable.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And let me just tell you, if you're not using wipes, get into 20, 25.

[Patrick Hines]

Get into the wipes.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Get into the wipes. So, fam, if you want to upgrade your restroom ritual, you can grab good wipes at Target, Walmart, Kroger, and most local grocery stores.

[Patrick Hines]

So as a special offer for TCO listeners, Good wipes is giving you your free first pack. For free.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Buy any package, text them your receipt, and get reimbursed almost immediately.

[Patrick Hines]

For more details, head to goodwipes.com TCO.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Again, that's goodwipes.com TCO to snag a free pack of good wipes and, like.

[Patrick Hines]

Let'S just talk about it and use the wipes. They're flushable.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Everyone should be using wipes.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, if you're not.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't mean to like, you hear it in my voice.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Just use the good wipes.

[Patrick Hines]

You'll thank me later.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Now we learn. A few months after Matt's death, a man named Jimmy Davis dies. Yes. So, Jimmy dav. We didn't mention this at the top, but remember how Matt worked for that pest control company owned by Donna's husband? Jimmy Davis was Matt's, like, partner in crime at this pest control company. And according to Donna, they were both the best employees this company ever had.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jimmy's niece Stephanie is here, and she's like, first of all, he was super fun, had a great smile. He was, like, a great guy. She misses her uncle very much.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But she's like, yeah, he worked with Matt at the pest control place. And Jimmy was also always at Donna and Doug's house.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

The way Matt was always at Donna and Doug's house. House. Like, this really can't be ignored.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No. So what we learn is that his body. Jimmy's body was found under a bridge, and it was initially treated like a homicide. So we learn the eyewitnesses statements say he was at a convenience store on.

[Lance Reed]

Cash Road and purchased beer, which was not uncommon. He left the convenience store. He was walking back to his house, and there's a little creek with a bridge over it. And the last part.

[Patrick Hines]

Person that saw him saw him standing.

[Lance Reed]

On that bridge, and then he just disappeared.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And the last person to see him saw him standing on the bridge that he was eventually found underneath. And so the autopsy is done. They say nothing suspicious was found. And the idea is that maybe Jimmy was so intoxicated standing on the bridge that he leaned over and fell off and drowned. It was the. The death was determined to be an. An accidental drowning.

[Patrick Hines]

So two employees of the same company are dead in the span of five months. And they're both mysterious deaths right now. The cases are closed. Sylvester, the coroner, doesn't remember Jimmy Davis at all. He's very flippant about the whole thing, which I do not appreciate.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I mean, like, how many deaths could there be in that small town? Like, you know what I mean? How do you not remember this guy? It's not New York fucking City.

[Patrick Hines]

No. You know he's lying.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he's very good friends with Donna, and this guy worked with Donna. Give me a break.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

But I also don't appreciate Donna talking shit about Jimmy being, like, what, he liked his alcohol? Why?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, shut up. Who are you?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, if you're Jimmy's family, you're like, why is your boss's wife, like, all up in your bit? Like, what is going on?

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's true.

[Patrick Hines]

And we'll get later. Like, not unlike Matt's funeral. Donna had to be all over Jimmy's funeral and all of his arrangements.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God, Stephanie. Denise tells us the story that the day of the funeral, Donna showed up with, like, a fancy blue suit for him to be buried in.

[Patrick Hines]

Who are you?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know. I mean, in one sense, maybe she's just the caring boss who's like, I want to do something nice for my. I get so much shit for, like, defending the bad guys on this podcast. And I'm not defending her. I'm just. I'm trying to see it from all.

[Patrick Hines]

Sides, which is if that was the one time she did that one thing, that one weird thing, but she's like an overbearing nightmare.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So even though these cases are closed, there are a lot of rumors about them. They're suspicious. They don't really make any sense. They're all, like, sort of connected to the same group of people.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's December 2015, 11 months after Matt's death, and Alex, Matt's fiance, Donna's daughter, gets a check for $884,000.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I screamed at the top of my lunch. I mean, do you know that that is $884,000 in today's money? Yeah, that is. You know what I mean? Like, lost my fucking. I was like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

It is absolutely life changing. Money. An insane amount of money. That again. So, like, Jordan, the sun's like, hi. Hi, Dad.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Standing over here being like, wow. Like, now he has to watch this woman who he didn't even like.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know. And that is Matt's blood money, by the way. That is the money that he got for, like, suffering the greatest trauma of his life, right until he was killed.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Alex is taking that check and living her best life.

[Lance Reed]

She bought vehicles, party bars, barges, baseball games, Bruno Mars concert. We've seen pictures on social media of beach trip after beach trip that Alex would be on.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She bought party barges. Not one. She bought multiple party barges.

[Patrick Hines]

She's going to every sporting event in town. She's going to Bruno Mars concerts. She's on multiple vacations with another boyfriend.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Same guy in all these pictures.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Party barges. Where did the idea to get a party barge even enter her brain?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, Matt's family says it looks like she was celebrating, right? Like, it looks like. Because Donna is here to deny she.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That one gay friend who's like, you know what? You need a party bar.

[Patrick Hines]

Girl.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Girl, you need a party.

[Patrick Hines]

Long weekend's coming up. What are we doing?

[Jillian Betzavali]

You know what we could be doing? We could be partying on one of your multiple party barges. Like, hello, A party barge.

[Patrick Hines]

Bruno Mars concerts.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God, Am I getting a party barge for the summer?

[Patrick Hines]

I guess.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Would you come on my party barge on the Hudson?

[Patrick Hines]

SPF 100 all the way.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Well, you'd come. We go for, like, an evening cruise.

[Patrick Hines]

But you're, like, trapped on the barge.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Well, we. I would. I would promise you we'd only go for an hour.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And we'll have, like, cosmos everywhere and.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, later, so the sun's not beating.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's what I said we'll do.

[Patrick Hines]

We'll do an evening cruise for one hour. I don't like that I'm trapped.

[Jillian Betzavali]

We'll have a lifeboat for you so you can get off if you absolutely have to.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Donna is here to deny that Alex blew her money on parties and vacations, but Alex posted everything she did on Instagram, so. Shut up, Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

If I had a party barge, I would never get off Instagram. I hate her. And I'm not making light of what happened here. I just can't get over the fact that this is the first conversation in nine years we're ever having about a party bar.

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I want. I desperately want one.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we'll do it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't stop. Yeah, but Donna's one of those people who's like, two plus two is not four. You're crazy. And it's like, well, on Instagram, it is.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Cut to three months from now where I'm texting you. You said you'd come for an hour. You said you would.

[Patrick Hines]

Really don't feel well. No, I don't want to be trapped in the middle of the fucking Hudson River.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know in the summer when I.

[Patrick Hines]

Could be in air conditioning with my dog.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like, I love you. We are so different.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, why?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know it's a party bar.

[Patrick Hines]

Sidetracke. Strapped on a bar.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You know what if I inside an.

[Patrick Hines]

Air conditioner, there's no.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know, I know. I just. My entire personality is party merchant. That's it. Like, that's it.

[Patrick Hines]

God, until God help us all. Okay, so. April 2016. 15 months after Matt's death, Matt's family still wants answers. What happened to Matt? Like, where did this will come from? Is there a connection to Jimmy's death? Enter Adam Reed, tax attorney.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I ask you a favor.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Can you just. Just say ding?

[Patrick Hines]

Why?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Just do it.

[Patrick Hines]

Ding.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Hero bell for Adam Reed. I'm obsessed with Adam Reed.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's a tax attorney.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know the fact that he's a hero in this story as a tax attorney is amazing. He's like, I get a lot of.

[Patrick Hines]

These calls all the time. They almost always don't work out. It's, you know, disgruntled heirs, people who have been left out of a will and are mad about it. But there's usually nothing I can can do. You know, I've had a client leave $5 million to her cat. I once had a client who left $5 million to our cat. And then he shrugs. Yeah, not even like a cat saving organization.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, so is there money just sitting somewhere, not doing anyone any good?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like 5 million bucks in an account somewhere?

[Patrick Hines]

Someone, like, comment about this. I really need to know what happens. Like, what is the answer? Nothing is the answer. Like, nothing happens. It's just in an account somewhere forever. Like, where does that $5 million go?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Sniffles is the richest cat on the Upper east side.

[Patrick Hines]

I love you, girl. But anyway, the lawyer takes a look at the will, and he's instantly concerned. He goes, it was created by one of those online will companies, like fast wills for the number4you.net.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I'm telling you, this was a revelation for me because I didn't know what to believe at this point. It takes this lawyer minutes to realize that it was made by, like, basically.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, whatever, fastwells for you dot net.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's what I've come up with for fastwills. Number four letter u dot net dot.

[Patrick Hines]

Net yeah, slash fast slash. Not shady. But that's red flag number one one. The fact that this happened from one of these websites, which is. It can be. Look, if it's cheap. Whatever. I understand.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Well, wait, that's just the one bombshell.

[Patrick Hines]

Then he. He reads two sentences of it, and he's like, no one would ever draft a will like this. Yeah, there were things that were left blank. Like, they were sort of giving too much information in some sections and then leaving really important sections blank. That if anyone was, like a professional walking you through, it would not be left blank.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Like inheritance, percentage. And things are written in weird ways. Like the number one is written as the numeral.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You would never do, like, an illegal document.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He says his spidey senses went off. So this hero, he says that was actually made by a company called Form Swift. He calls customer service, luckily got a.

[Lance Reed]

Friendly agent on the line, and she.

[Patrick Hines]

Told me it was created on January 24, 2015, five days after Matthew died.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Five days after Matthew died. I literally gay gasp.

[Patrick Hines]

And the thing is, the entire will is about that. He hereby states that I'm engaged to Jordan Alexandra Peterson.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And the lawyer is like, no one gives a shit. I've never. He goes, I've never seen a will that states who the person is engaged to. It doesn't matter. It has a. No legal.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No legal significance. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So he's like, all of this stuff, and then he calls and he talks to Renee in the front office, and she's like, what?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So five days after Matt died, he goes, it was impossible for the will to be legitimate unless Matt signed it from the grave.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

We got you.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I was screaming so April. Because I'm like, at this point in the documentary, I'm like, how is she doing this interview from her kitchen table?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betzavali]

How is she not in the jumpsuit?

[Patrick Hines]

So this is when Adam the lawyer, calls Matt's family, and he's like, I got good news and bad news. What do you want? First, the bad news is that this is a fake will. The good news, I know who did.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It, and I have the receipt.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's go, Adam. Let's go.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Dang, dang, dang. He's a hero.

[Patrick Hines]

I will give everyone. You won't need it. But one guess who drafted the will. Can anyone guess? Anyone? Anyone? Donna fucking Herring.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Donna Herring.

[Patrick Hines]

She made a fake will and used one of Matt's signatures that she had from when he bought the house.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, photocopied it. Like old school, Photoshopped.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Took his will, took his signature, forged it on a fake will. And I'm like, five days after he died.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And Lance, Brother Lance. Thank God. He said this.

[Lance Reed]

He's like, it took me to a bad place. This woman not only stole from Jordan, but made him feel unloved.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She made Jordan feel unloved?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That is beyond the money. That is the most fucked up thing that this person did.

[Patrick Hines]

And then texting him. You're the only connection I have to your father. Also, Donna. You're his what? His realtor. The fuck are you? Like, who are you?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Actually travel down the road.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Back again, girl. Gab is back. Look, we all know it. The youth mental health crisis is all over the news. We know that social media is driving this. This shocked me. Teens spend an average of 9 hours a day on screens outside of school.

[Patrick Hines]

That's crazy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

That's like a nine hour workday only you're just scrolling mindlessly and then getting inundated and, like feeling bad about yourselves.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Well, okay, but so here's the news. A company called Gab has solved the problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is called Tech in Steps. Now, we've been using Gab with Daisy for almost a year now, and I'm obsessed with this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Tech and Steps is awesome. So Tech and Steps works by providing a kid safe phone and watch. By the way, if you're into the watches for every age and stage, basically the right device at the right time.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. So here's how it works. First off, Gab devices have no social media or Internet apps. Daisy is barely interested in her phone. And. And that is the point.

[Patrick Hines]

That's crazy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

That's crazy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

For younger kids, they've got a watch with GPS tracking and safe zones. For tweens, a smarter phone with more features like monitored messaging and video calling. This Gab phone is meant to grow with your kid.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And for teenagers, they have an advanced phone with features like parent managed apps, a premium camera. Cause the kids are all about the selfies.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. There used to be a time when if you were gonna give your kid a phone, it was gonna come loaded with all these things. Not anymore. You don't have to give your kid a device that was. It was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected safely. When I tell you this is true. And it works. And we see it in practice with Daisy every day. I was so worried about getting her a phone, and I'm not anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

It really hits home. Like, don't give your kid a device made for an adult.

[Jillian Betzavali]

100% tech in steps.

[Patrick Hines]

That's it right there.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Yeah. So, fam. Protecting your kids has never been easier for the best deals. Sign up for Gab today. No contract required at gab.com TCO that's.

[Patrick Hines]

Gab g-a b b.com TCO gab.com TCO terms and conditions apply. Sorry, but it's totally worth it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's totally worth it.

[Patrick Hines]

So, to recap, Donna went through all the calculated steps to fake a will I know stole from Jordan Max son.

[Jillian Betzavali]

How is everybody not so afraid? As afraid of going to jail as I am. Like, I would never do anything like that. I would. As I'm faking this will, I'm like, I'm going to jail for the rest of my life. I'm going to jail. Jail for the rest of my life.

[Patrick Hines]

Stole from Matt's son made Jordan feel in love. She was manipulating the family. She was manipulating Jordan. Lying to everyone. Because, by the way, her sister and her sister's husband also signed the will as witnesses.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Implicating them idiots. So the point is, like, what else did Donna do? What else could Donna have done?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

If she's gone through all of this.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So the Matt's family's furious, but they can't say anything or they'll ruin the case. Adam, the tax guy is like, you got to keep your mouth shut. I get it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But, like, right, Because Jordan now wants to, like, run up to that dummy Alex, you know, probably at the prom or whatever. Like, bitch, I know what you did. But he can't do it. He's got to keep his mouth shut.

[Patrick Hines]

So Adam, the lawyer is working the case, and there's another red flag. The will mentions cremation right away. And Matt's family was like, well, Matt never discussed that with anyone. And also, I'm like, well, he's 31 years old. I'm sure no one was talking about this. He was a young, healthy guy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Well, but they do say she added.

[Patrick Hines]

In there, make arrangements for my remains to be cremated.

[Lance Reed]

Cremation. Matt never talked about cremation. We always say, said we want to be just buried. I know for a fact my dad would not have wanted to be cremated. You know, he wanted to be buried next to his mother.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He did not want to be cremated.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And he wasn't. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, no, because Donna, days after the burial, made this fake will. And what the tax guy is saying, like, what's weird about this is that the default option on the website is burial.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Donna had to manually change that to cremation. Like, why?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Because they're Saying that they want. That Donna wanted him cremated in case if. Like, if she had anything to do with his death, it would ruin the evidence. But I'm like. But she was the one in charge of the funeral, and she just had him buried. Right? Like, he wasn't cremated.

[Patrick Hines]

No, he was not.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Because they end up exhuming him later.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right, right, right. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, we see Donna holding. Hugging a little dog. Stay safe, little one. Stay safe out there.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

Sniffles Things are about to get weirder.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Jeff Davis is here. He's Matt's friend. No relation to Jimmy Davis. Who's the other Suspicious death.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Or Jefferson Davis as far.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Jillian Betzavali]

The Confederate president.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No, I don't think they're related, but maybe.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that who he's named after?

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's what I was thinking.

[Patrick Hines]

In South Austin.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, Matt, our victim, confided in his friend Jeff, and he was like, look, my relationship with Alex is causing a lot of problems for me, in particular with his son Jordan.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which Jordan told us. So now Jeff is just confirming what we already knew.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

From Jordan. His son.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like. And remember Donna is saying they were head over heels. They were smitten. They were so in love. He wanted to le all of his money. It's like.

[Patrick Hines]

Did Donna force her daughter to, like, try to, like, seduce this guy?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I think so, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Money.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I do think so.

[Patrick Hines]

Donna, she. You know, Donna wanted him in many ways.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

She didn't want it to be like his mother and his lover, and she couldn't decide, so she just, like.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Sicced her daughter on him, perhaps. That's just my opinion. So the Friday before Matt died, he's working at the pest control job.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. With which, by the way, I. Like, I was thinking about the amount of encounters they must have. Have with cockroaches.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, it's there. That's an easy day.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God, that's typical.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What else is there?

[Patrick Hines]

A lot.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What else is there? I need you to tell me.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not telling you anything.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What else is there?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. What isn't there? Something weird that you can't identify? Something that has the word peed in it?

[Jillian Betzavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Something with a whole lot of legs and feet. Anyway, so the day before Matt died, he's working a pest control job with Jimmy Davis. The other suspicious death.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Matt says. He told me that he finally decided.

[Lance Reed]

To break it off with Alex. The only reason why he couldn't get out of the situation yet was because they were threatening him. They told him that they were going.

[Patrick Hines]

To turn him in for being with a minor.

[Lance Reed]

Because she was 17 when Matt started dating her.

[Patrick Hines]

Because apparently Alex was actually 17 when she started dating Matt.

[Jillian Betzavali]

So like, are we gonna spend 20 minutes talking about how problematic this is?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't understand. Because we never get confirmation if this is a lie or not. I know, because we're talking one is too much.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No, but when we, when we started and we were told she was 18, I gave it some pause, but I was like, well, she's technically a legal adult, but was she actually 17 and he's 32?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. I don't know. We don't get an answer on that. And I really wish we did because that's very. It's inappropriate to say inappropriate.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And like you can understand where Jordan's coming from, right? In a great. For a great many reasons. But like, it's a lot.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's absolutely a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a lot because Jeff the friend says you got to stay strong. You got to get away from this family. Like, threats be damned. Yeah, but like you need to get out from under their thumb.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Also, Jeff, the. I told him, get out of there anyway. And just remember, if she presses charges, your friends and family are going to stand by you. I'm like, girl, you need to be. You are the one who's supposed to be like his big brother. Tell him this is not appropriate. You shouldn't be in a relationship with a 17 year old girl. No, like, don't just blanketly stand by people who do fucked up things.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You know, he can be the victim in the story and also have done some shitty things.

[Patrick Hines]

If this is true, I mean, and we never get an answer.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Jeff, the friend, knowing what he knows now, is starting to wonder about Jimmy Davis, the co worker who also mysteriously died. Because he's like, he was always with Matt, always with Donna and her family. Something is weird here. Like, did Jimmy Davis know too much? Like what happened?

[Jillian Betzavali]

And this makes sense because the, the, the coincidence, I'm sure somebody can do the math. The coincidence of two people who were good friends who work for the same company, both dying mysteriously within five months of each other. The likelihood of that happening is very, very, very small.

[Patrick Hines]

Donna's behavior was similar with both of them too. She was always making them food, she was always having them over. And she was being overbearing with the funeral, like with the blue suit thing. Like, who are you?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Why are you so involved in Their lives.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

During and after these tragedies happen. It's very weird.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It is very weird. And it definitely makes you think there could be definitely more to the Jimmy Davis death.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we're back with Adam, the lawyer, who has now become a criminal forensics expert. I'm obsessed with it because he's diving into this will, and now he's looking at Matt's accident report, and he's trying to find more red flags that sort of like. Yeah, coincide with the will.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He's a tax attorney, and he says on the accident report, it says the airbag deployed. But on the police report, it says that he died from trauma to the head and. And chest. And we found out that there wasn't a single drop of blood in the car. So why wasn't there an autopsy done?

[Patrick Hines]

What he's saying is it all goes back to that. To that same question.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right. He's saying that if the airbag deployed, there wouldn't be any damage to his head. If the blunt force trauma was to his head, but the airbag deployed, he wouldn't have a blunt force trauma to his head.

[Patrick Hines]

It sounds like something was done to.

[Jillian Betzavali]

His car or something was done to him before he got in the car.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, something bad happened. Like, this wasn't. He didn't drift off the road while testing.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Come on. Now we're told this is where we get into. Like, Donna is friends with all of these influential people in town.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because we. We cut.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And they seem afraid of her.

[Patrick Hines]

We cut to her praising the former chief of police. Like, in this. Like, on shoot day in her kitchen. You're such a good person. You're so amazing at your job. She's actually sitting with him while he's doing his interview.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Taking place in her home. He's the chief of police. What is wrong?

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So then we see her praising Sylvester, the coroner.

[Lance Reed]

She's like, I wasn't worried about it because I knew you were in charge. You're gonna do what's right. And you know, that never fazed me. Never fazed me.

[Patrick Hines]

I knew everything would be okay. Cause you were on the job. Like, she's manipulative. She's overbearing. She's pushy. Everyone was scared of her. So, like, what is she capable of? And that's why Sylvester's like, I've never heard of Jimmy Davis. I never did this. I didn't have to do an autopsy. I didn't have to tell his Matt. Matt's family. And you're like, wow. Yeah, she is being very controlling with a lot of people who make really important decisions in these cases.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

What's going on?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Really? It's. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So part two. The mysterious woman, Donna, made that fake will on the website. She's in Arkansas. The company's based in California, but I think bada boom. That's why I. Fraud.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She's gonna wire fraud, baby.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is a federal crime, which means the FBI is involved. Enter Tanya.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Special Agent Tanya.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I like Tanya and Tyler until I don't.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But, yeah, she works out of the Little Rock office. She's assigned to the case, mostly to handle the fraudulent will, but she is mildly obsessed with the mysterious death of Matt.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So it's July 13, 2016. 18 months after Matt's death, the FBI, like, descends onto Arkansas.

[Jillian Betzavali]

15 agents swarm the town. They drop warrants on all of Donna's properties and offices, and they conduct interviews with all of the main suspects. Now, Tanya says, we timed our interview with Donna to be when she was at her Century 21 office. And she says usually people are not thrilled to be meeting an agent from.

[Patrick Hines]

The FBI or they're just on edge.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like, Donna was over the moon.

[Patrick Hines]

She was psyched.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Donna goes through all the personalities during their interview.

[Patrick Hines]

Because when I first got there, it was, oh, sweetie, so happy to have you here. To crying because he died and she loved him so much. To cussing like a sailor. To talking about being baptized.

[Lance Reed]

Harmony Girl Maze at his church. Church saved my life.

[Patrick Hines]

She was all over the place.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She was all over the place.

[Patrick Hines]

She was talking about being baptized. Like, Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

How the church saved her. Like, that's why Donna wants to make this documentary. Like, anybody. Any opportunity to sit down and talk about herself with somebody, she's doing it.

[Patrick Hines]

And nothing is going to happen to her in that town.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right? Totally. But that's why it's good that Tanya's here, because Tanya is an impartial. Like, she's not close with Donna. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, Tanya tells Donna that she knows all about the fake will, and Donna's like, oh, that, like, girl, you misunderstand.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Here's what really happened. Donna tells FBI Tanya that she found Matt's original will that she doesn't have anymore.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Where did it go? We don't know.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She found an original will that Matt had written.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. But it didn't include his son Jordan at all. So out of the goodness of her heart, she made another will online specifically to include Jordan. And basically, we shall be thanking Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So just to be clear, Donna admitted that she made a fake will online.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She admitted that she made the fake will online.

[Patrick Hines]

And the original will is nowhere to go.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's gone.

[Patrick Hines]

So they ask Donna and they're like, okay, thanks for admitting that.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's talk about the night mat.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What do you think happened, Donna? She thinks that Matt's doctor was over prescribing him Xanax and that he took too much Xanax that night and drove home and crashed into a tree.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is what FBI Tanya says. Here's the thing. Matt's blood was only tested for alcohol, nothing else. So I guess we'll get back to that because they're going to test it for everything else.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I just don't understand. If you're going to test it for one thing, test it for everything.

[Patrick Hines]

That's Sylvester the Corner sitting in Donna's kitchen.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That was his decision.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So. So that's weird. Right? So Tanya also speaks to Alex, who's Donna's daughter and Matt's fiance, the beneficiary.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Of the almost $1 million FBI.

[Patrick Hines]

Tanya looks directly at us and says, she didn't fall far from the tree she came from.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jordan's right about Alex, too.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. And you know, ultimately, Alex does admit into believing that her mother was behind the creation of the will, which. Which, I'm sorry, Alex, makes you culpable. Which means you know that your mom made up this fake will and you're spending Jordan inheritance.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. $884,000 that you're pissing away on party barges and that.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Now hear me out. An hour and five minutes. Cuz I want a little docking time. I just want five more minutes so I can get us docked and undocked.

[Patrick Hines]

Or air conditioning.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Okay, but the whole idea is that it's out. It's out. It's open air.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Bring the dog.

[Patrick Hines]

No, she'd hate it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She would.

[Patrick Hines]

The poor thing. She'd be like, mom, what's going on here? The air conditioner. Do you remember we have air conditioning at home.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Out of the hot. Oh, we'll have such a good time.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. And I think what the family is really hating what Alex is doing. It's not just that she's spending the money. It's like she's flaunting it in their faces.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Sing it on Instagram. Living her best life. And again, quote, celebrating.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And they also learn that the night of the accident, Matt's phone was given to his brother Lance. And Lance, thinking he's doing the right thing is giving the phone to Matt's girlfriend, Alex.

[Patrick Hines]

Fiance.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Fiance Alex. And Tanya asks Alex right now, do you still have that phone? And she says no, that's a lie. Tanya finds out later that at the time of the interview, Alex knew full well that she had taken Matt's phone, given it boyfriend who's in all the photos.

[Patrick Hines]

Cuz they're vacationing together.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. And Tanya saying we desperately wanted that phone. We wanted to see the text messages between them. We wanted to see were they still together, were they not?

[Patrick Hines]

And also it's not like the boy. She gave it to the boyfriend for safekeeping. I learned that Matthew's phone at the time of our interview with her was being used by her boyfriend. So she completely lied to us. We tracked it down, but unfortunately the phone had been wiped. Wiped multiple times. And at that point in time did not have any evidentiary value. The phone was wiped, quote, multiple times. So there's no evidence on the phone.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And I'm like, can't wait. There's no way to go back. I mean Tanya tells us that like Matt didn't like save his like text to the cloud or whatever. So like there's no other way to forensically go back through the phone and recover lost text messages.

[Patrick Hines]

It's hard to do that. Apple won't really do it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, whatever. It should be better. You're the FBI. Tanya come up with a way because the answer is is in the text messages. Like were they lovey dovey like Tanya said, where they could not they couldn't wait to get married or did he break up with her and he hated her and this is all fraud and we should try to get the money back.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I think FBI Tanya doesn't need the phone because we have another twist. Matt had a girlfriend who was not Alex.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And the night he died, he was on his way to see her. And her name is Lori.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is a little messy because they met at the pest control job. Lori was a client.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's messy because his future father in law runs that business.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alex knew about Laura the girlfriend. Alex was not happy about Laura the girlfriend.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But like. So this means that Alex and Matt were broken up. Yes, they were broken up for a while. Has no claim to that money now.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, Donna totally knew about Lori, even though Donna claims that she only learned about Lori four to five months after Matt died.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That Donna is an overbearing nightmare. It sounds like Donna and Alex had a pretty toxic relationship. Relationship. I am positive she knew about Lori.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Of course. Donna was calling Lori and openly harassing this woman over the phone, threatening her. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Donna, quote, did this in the presence of others. So this makes. This also makes me fucking crazy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Donna admits it. So Donna will say I didn't know her. Now she's admitting.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That she called and threatened this woman.

[Jillian Betzavali]

While Matt was still alive. She's calling and threatening Lori.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's okay, everyone, because Donna was in, quote, in mama bear mode. Barf, barf, barf, barf.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Now she says something that makes zero sense to me. She says, when you're in a mama.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You can do it. You can do it. You can get through it.

[Lance Reed]

Listen, when you're in mama bear mode, you don't care if it's the rabbit crossing the street. If you're mad, that rabbit better tell you why he's crossing that street. And I was in mama bear mode.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't. With the mama bear mode. I just. I can't do it. Like, leave the bears out of it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Because I know where it comes from.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It comes from bears being protective of their cubs. I get it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I support the bears.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's just that thing of, like, Donna trying to justify her shitty existence, her.

[Patrick Hines]

Shitty actions and behavior.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You cannot threaten someone.

[Jillian Betzavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Because she might get the money you want one day.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That's really what this is all about.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, and she's an overbearing nightmare. And I think she probably again, speculating wildly a la Joan Calimezo. But it sounds like they probably like she and Alex maybe had one the of. Of those relationships where, like, Donna was always competing with her daughter or living vicariously through. Because I think she very clearly wanted to be with Matt. So she's, like, living through all for money. It's very twisted and sick.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's all very sick.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I learned everything I needed to know about her. One in the first two seconds and two with those texts to Jordan saying, you're the only thing connecting me to your father. That to me. Because I have, again, people in my life that has happened to. I've seen it firsthand. It's disgusting and vile and wildly unfair, especially to a teenager who's going through trauma. Like, so I know exactly who Donna is.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And, like, where is Alex in the world? She's probably 10,000 miles away from her mother.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, good. Like, Alex, you have stuff to answer for, too, but, like, stay away from this mother.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Obviously. So here's the thing. By all accounts, Matt broke up with Alex.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which means that she's not entitled to any of the money he got from the settlement.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I mean, unless he legitimately left it to her in a will.

[Patrick Hines]

But that's why it's written all over the will that they were engaged.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And the tax guy is like, cool, doesn't matter, doesn't matter, doesn't mean anything.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But if he writes it in the will, like Donna, quote, made it official because FBI Tanya is like, oh, Alex was Donna's princess. And Donna would do anything to make sure that Alex was taken care of. Meaning money.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all Donna cares about.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And I'm like, Donna, you don't care that she's blowing all that money? That money's going to be gone in a year.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. FBI Tani says outright Donna is incredibly good at manipulating people and she'll plant thoughts in your heads. Like she would do things like she, she would tell Jordan, Matt's son, that the day Matt died, Alex had just picked out her wedding dress.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

To make it seem like they were together. But the reality is that Matt had dumped her and he was going to see his new girlfriend, Lori.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And everyone was up in arms about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I mean, Donna is such a fucking bad person.

[Patrick Hines]

She's a horrifying person, you know, and.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What I love about this documentary is like, what Donna, what did you think was going to happen? Did you think you were going to come out looking good?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Because you don't, you look insane.

[Patrick Hines]

She definitely wasn't playing chess where it's like, oh, where is this company based? Does it constitute wire fraud? Is the FBI involved?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like she wasn't thinking that far ahead. She's just thinking, I can do whatever the f. Because I'm besties with the police chief and the coroner.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Do whatever like with the local, the local people.

[Patrick Hines]

She was not thinking the FBI is.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Going to be totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Jordan says Donna was the creator of the madness. And it's so clear that she was so.

[Jillian Betzavali]

November 16, 2016, nearly two years after Matt's death, Donna Herring is charged with fraud, money laundering and aggravated identity theft.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Ben the the U.S. attorney in the west district of Arkansas calls this a criminal conspiracy.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because like everything comes back to Donna. She's at the middle of this. She got her sister and her brother in law sign as witnesses like Alex. But Alex is involved too, because Alex gave Donna the combination to Matt's safe so Donna could plant the will received.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And spent the money like, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

So because Alex the daughter is charged with obstruction, a false Statement wire fraud and money laundering.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. And the Diana John Kinley I think is Donna's sister and brother in law are charged with wire fraud, money laundering and aggravated identity theft because they witnessed the will. Fake will.

[Patrick Hines]

So Donna pleads not guilty to every charge. We're told she has a very good lawyer.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And now like we have something horrible that happens because suddenly we're watching body.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Cam footage going into another house and.

[Patrick Hines]

The cops at the scene. There's a woman who has a gunshot wound. And this nosy neighbor is like, ma' am, okay.

[Lance Reed]

When you come back over here, I.

[Patrick Hines]

Can'T really talk about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Talked about anything.

[Lance Reed]

But it's been subpoenaed to go to that big trial.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. I'm not going to say anything, but she was subpoenaed to go to a big trial.

[Jillian Betzavali]

This nosy neighbor is. We're seeing the nosy neighbor on body. It is the most nosy neighbors thing I've ever seen in my life.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like whisper and telling the cops to whisper. And the cop goes.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And she's like, shh, keep your mouth.

[Patrick Hines]

Keep your voice down. So it turns out that the cops are at Lori, Matt's girlfriend's house and she's dead. She was shot in the chest.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Shot in the chest. Now everybody around Matt is being killed or dying.

[Patrick Hines]

Matt Jacobs is dead. Jimmy Davis is dead. And now Lori Skin is dead.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it all. They all go back to Donna. They all have a connection to Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's absolutely insane. And attorney Adam even says, I remember thinking, should I be scared for my people are dropping like fucking flies now.

[Patrick Hines]

And the death certificate now says that Lori killed herself.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And guess who signed off on it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Sylvester Smith.

[Patrick Hines]

Donna's many friends.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. The corner.

[Patrick Hines]

She was just telling him how amazing it was at his job. He signed Matt's death certificate and he signed Jimmy Davis's death certificate and earlier pretended like he didn't know who Jimmy Davis was.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. And now FBI Tanya says, like this is suspicious because Donna had been harassing and threatening this woman. She reaches out to like Tanya from the FBI, reaches out to local law enforcement and they're saying like there really is nothing to see here. And they tell Tanya that Lori had a history of depression and a history of suicide. I was like, tanya, do you mean like suicide attempts?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And we learn, we are told that she discovered that she had lung cancer and decided to kill herself than going through treatment.

[Patrick Hines]

And FBI Tanya says, look, she believes it. Yeah. She goes, I know it's suspicious, but she Claims that she did her own independent research, and she says Lori more than likely did die by suicide.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Like, it's just. It's. How many coincidences do I like. Look, I believe Tanya. This was the part where I was saying I liked Tanya until. I don't. I know, because I was like this. But I guess what would Donna get out of Lori being dead at this point?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, what happens is that anything could.

[Lance Reed]

Have happened to her, you know? But part of me believes that somebody in this situation had a hold over her because she died before any court dates had happened to appear as a witness.

[Patrick Hines]

Lori was about to testify against Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And now she's dead. And, like, I don't. I want Lori's truth to be told, no matter what it is. And so if FBI Tanya is saying that and she admits. I know. It's all very shady.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But based on her research, and we don't have access to that research. Like, I don't really know what to.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Believe, but it could have been very damaging testimony for Donna. If Lori gets up in the sand and he's. And she's like, he hated Donna. He hated Alex. He loved me. I have all these text messages to prove it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betzavali]

You know?

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So on January 26, 2018, this is now three years after Matt's death. Donna changes her tune. Now she pleads guilty. A month before the trial, she was pleading not guilty to everything.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I think this is the biggest indicator of her guilt of anything we've seen.

[Patrick Hines]

So she pleads guilty to one count of wire fraud.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then we get, like. We get Donna saying 15 times in a row that this is all her fault and that her daughter didn't do anything.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. But it's like, to me, this is so obvious and somebody says it, that she's pleading guilty to one small thing so they don't investigate her for these three fucking.

[Patrick Hines]

Because if she pleads guilty, there won't be a trial.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So she can kind of get. She'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did it. Leave my daughter out of it. Protecting the daughter. But then, like, now she can avoid people finding the truth about all of.

[Jillian Betzavali]

These mysterious deaths, which is, like, very smart on her part, but also very obvious, if you ask me.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's very obvious, too, because now people are asking, like, okay, well, did she possibly poison Matt?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because she was always cooking for him. She was always bringing him meals, and she had access to a lot of poisons and chemicals thanks to the. Her husband's pest control business.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And we know that there was no autopsy, so there was no tox screen done. All they tested for was alcohol.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So the FBI and, you know, like, we've talked about this a million times. This always puts the family through fucking hell and back.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But the FBI exhumes Matthew's body to try to get to the bottom of this.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Even the exhumation is bungled because FBI Tanya is saying we had to go through the proper channels. All of the local authorities and the family has agree. And the district attorney goes into it.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't just, like, make a decision.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. One of the major decision makers is, like, out of town to, like, when they're trying to figure out the logistics. And suddenly that fucking guy, the coroner, Sylvester, who was just having soup at Donna's house, is exhuming the body with.

[Patrick Hines]

A bunch of city workers without telling anybody.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So the word gets out that they're exhuming Matthew and everyone's like, wait, like, right now the pathologist is out of town? Like, how is this happening?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So Sylvester's like, yeah, we just went ahead and did it. And no, I did not feel the need to tell Matthew's family. No, I did not feel the need to tell law enforcement like, Sylvester. Looking back at how Sylvester was handling this, was very poor and questionable.

[Lance Reed]

And we did it as best as we could. They dropped him three times before they finally got him out of the grave.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Jordan says, they dropped my dad's casket three times before they were able to get it out of the ground.

[Patrick Hines]

So horrible.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

Not only the fact that they did this the way they did it, but the actual way they physically did it. It's just, like, atrocious.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And, and. And the coroner. What's his fucking name? Sylvester. He's basically like, sorry, kid, you wanted us to test your dad' this is how we got to do it.

[Patrick Hines]

And no, I didn't think I should have told anybody.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So they exhume Matthew's body, and now they want to do extensive testing for, like, 300 things.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But it's not extensive enough because it all comes back negative. This panel comes back negative for the 300 things they commonly test for. And they're saying it is still possible that he was poisoned because there are certain poisons you have to test for specifically, but you have to know what you're looking for.

[Patrick Hines]

And these can be hundreds of options.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Hundreds. And I'm like, well, does anybody know what kind of chemicals Donna's husband used for his pest control? Because this. Can we just test for that.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, don't worry, everyone. Sylvester feels vindicated. He says he silenced the critics. I'm like, but do you? Because you have two right here.

[Jillian Betzavali]

We hate you, Sylvester.

[Patrick Hines]

That's you right here.

[Jillian Betzavali]

We absolutely fucking hate you, Sylvester.

[Patrick Hines]

I silenced the critics.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. No. And I'm like, well, but wait a second. Like. Like FBI, Tanya. We are specifically talking about the fact that, that Donna has access to these. These particular chemicals. Can you at least test for those? And we don't know if they did or not.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't know. So, part three, the other side of the story. It's November 12, 2019, four years and 10, 10 months after Matt's death. Donna is now here to blame Lance, Matt's brother.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She is saying, I wrote the fake will, but Lance and Shawna helped me do it. They were in on the whole thing. They were sitting at my office with me as I was writing this fake will. And it keeps. It keeps cutting to Lance, but like a. Like an image of him not saying anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It's like Donna telling this story. I'm not going to be silent anymore. I'm going to take everybody down with me. Lance and Shawna were my co conspirators in this. And it cuts to Lance, who just doesn't say anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Donna is claiming that Lance said to her, don't give Jordan my son any money quote, because Matt couldn't stand that kid.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Donna, it is so mean. I know what she put Jordan specifically through.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She's a truly, truly sick person.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it's so cruel to do what you did with the will. Donna, I'm talking right to you, you fucking.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She's probably listening.

[Patrick Hines]

Good.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll say it to her fucking face.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know. No, what I'm saying is, like, I'm glad to know she's hearing this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But the thing is, we go through this all the time. It doesn't matter.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

She doesn't give a shit. I'm screaming into the void for no reason. Nothing's gonna change. I'm just gonna. That's all it is. Like, these people don't give a shit.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She is loving the fact that we're spending an hour and a half on her.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Yeah. But it's like. But Donna, we.

[Patrick Hines]

What she's doing is mean to Jordan.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes. And we see you. We. We don't. Donna, I want you to know, we don't believe you.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Jillian Betzavali]

We don't believe you.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no. And so, like, so this is what I mean, where it's like, you don't actually love the person if you're texting them. I love you so much. And I'd never hurt you. You're the only thing connecting me to your father when she's being beyond mean to Jordan time and time again.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I also want to say, Donna, you did a really stupid thing. You agreed to this documentary. It was going to make you look good. You thought you were going to have your say. Donna, everybody hates you. You are the villain. In case you didn't know. Girl, we are all having the last laugh. You might have gotten away with it, but we know you're awful. We know you're garbage. And we are all laughing at you.

[Patrick Hines]

You know why? She doesn't give a shit.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Why?

[Patrick Hines]

Cuz all attention is good attention for her. She doesn't care. She's thrilled.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know. Oh my God. Do you think she's cleaning her kitchen while listening to us?

[Patrick Hines]

No, No. I think she's making some disgusting tequila cake, Whatever the fuck that is. Also, if I wind up dead in.

[Jillian Betzavali]

A week, I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know who to look for. Bye, Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Hi, Donna.

[Patrick Hines]

So let to January 24, 2015. It's five days after Matt's death. Donna. Because now remember, this is the third part of the documentary. This is Donna's side of the story. Like we haven't been hearing from her big mouth the entire fucking time.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

She lays it all out.

[Lance Reed]

Lantree. Let's talk about that. Because no matter whether you believe there was or wasn't, he was involved. He knew the will was fake the whole time it was being probated. Him and his wife sat at my office with me when I made it.

[Patrick Hines]

That night, Lance and Shawna met Donna at her office. Lance is telling Donna to make the fake will.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Shawna's like, piper, no. Like, no way.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right, right, right, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Lance is the one pushing this. And then Donna does it. Because Donna is absolutely someone who just sits there and does whatever she's told. Right? Like, give me a break, Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Lance wants half the money. The tractors, the welders. And Donna says he had me over a barrel cause he knew he tell on me.

[Patrick Hines]

To who? Your best friend? The Chief of police?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

It is like Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And finally, thank God, it cuts back to Lance and he's like, none of this is true. Donna's like, I've got the text messages to prove it. And we get Tanya from the FBI who's like, I reviewed the text messages. They are very out of context. Like all through the Night of the night that she's saying this is happening, she is texting them and they're not responding.

[Patrick Hines]

They're tech, call me now. Come over. She says if anything, it shows that Donna was trying to drag Lance and his wife Shawna into her crime. Like she goes, there's really nothing in here. It's all circumstantial at best. But. So Donna gets 41 months in prison.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And three years of supervised release. And she had to pay like $132,000 to Jordan.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Her sister and brother in law had to chip in because they are witnesses. And it's like, where are they? Was Lance, I thought, wait, what if Lance and Shawna forced you to do this?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right? Oh, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Then how did your brother. How did your sister and brother in law sign as witnesses? Where are they, girl?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right, Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alex lied about Matthew phone. So she gets six months house arrest, three years probation. And T's like not jail time. But she is a felon now.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I mean that really makes a difference.

[Patrick Hines]

Always looking for that silver lining, T.

[Jillian Betzavali]

But that will up your life.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Donna is crying. So what's your relationship with Alex like now?

[Lance Reed]

Very strained. Very strained. Very strained.

[Patrick Hines]

Does she still come by the house?

[Lance Reed]

We're not going to talk about that. We will ruin the makeup. We'll not gonna talk about that. No.

[Patrick Hines]

She has a quote, strained relationship with Alex, which is translation. Alex has got no contact, thank God, with her incredibly toxic mother.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Imagine if this is the one thing we know about Alex's life, what her life actually was.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Donna's the one where it's like, I don't know why my daughter doesn't call me anymore. The people that you go no contact with, they never, they never have the self awareness to be like, wow, what?

[Jillian Betzavali]

How? What did I do?

[Patrick Hines]

What I wonder. But it's always like, well, what did I do? Just what? I loved you too much. What I was your mother. It's like, oh, my go. You're all fucking crazy and we don't miss you.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

When we go no contact. Our lives are. I never think about you.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's wonderful. You're just not my life anymore. Yeah, it's amazing. It's like, delete.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. So Jordan got almost all of his dad's estate, the money, three houses.

[Jillian Betzavali]

He's got three houses. Jordan.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jordan's like, you know what, Patrick? I don't give a shit. I know I'd rather have my dad back. Like he's at peace now. Cause this whole debacle is over. But like what's three houses which could be with. I got my dad and like, you know, sort of like he wanted to follow in his dad's line of work and he wanted to, you know, like.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, I know. I mean like that that's the tragedy when this happens all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

And like, you know, the movie ends with like some hope that this film will generate some answers in the deaths of these three people.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it ends with a knock at Donna's door and it's her probation officer.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she thinks it's fucking hilarious.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's. We're at Bryan, Texas, January 2020. Donna Self surrenders to prison. Everyone is still like really upset. Like Jordan has a son now. He named his son after his father, Matt.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Ye.

[Patrick Hines]

Then we learn like, because like what happened to what we'll never know what exactly happened to Matthew.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't know what happened to Jimmy. Do we really know what happened to Laurie.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And dawn is there like chuckling and laughing that her probation officer is at the time like fuck you.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And the trauma she did to Jordan.

[Jillian Betzavali]

It'S you just like. It doesn't make any sense in a world. It's that like whole thing of like. Well then he must be the unluckiest person in the world if all of these people.

[Patrick Hines]

Scott Peterson effect.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. Around this guy Matt. Are dead. Like and that's just a coincidence.

[Patrick Hines]

Around. Dunna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Right. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it's like. So we like we learn that after serving 13 months in federal prison, she was granted early release in 2021 thanks to Covid.

[Lance Reed]

Prison was not anything scary. It was perfectly fine. I was perfectly fine. Covid hit wasn't a lot to do. I played a lot of cards, read a lot of books.

[Patrick Hines]

She played a lot of cards, read a lot of books.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She's the kind of person who would do just fine in prison.

[Patrick Hines]

She did very well in prison. There are people who were in prison with her talking to their therapist about how manipulated 100%, no question. And it ends with her not giving a quote diddly dam what anyone thinks. Donna.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I know, but you know what? You're right. She doesn't give a diddly damn.

[Patrick Hines]

She doesn't. And like that's not cute. And I know that's like a big fr. Like she thinks she's adorable. She's not.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She's not.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like an evil, vindictive, horrifying.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Because even if she didn't Kill those people, which I think she might have. But even if she didn't, she, like, was messing with Jordan. The son of Jordan, a dead guy. Like, how fucked up do you have to be?

[Patrick Hines]

And before all of this happened, like, if Matt went through with the engagement to the fiance, he. She was still manipulating him for his money, no matter what, right? And then he dumped her daughter and she killed him, right? My opinion. Just my opinion, that's all.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, girl. We did. What's it called?

[Patrick Hines]

Southern Fried Lies.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Southern Fried Lies. Holy macaroli. Holy macaroli. Oh, my God, fam. Join us over on the Patreon. Over 450 full ad free bonus episodes to download a binge. We're starting Karen Reid very soon. We're finishing up Fox Hollow. We did Scamanda. It was wild. What was the one we did before that? Gabby Petito.

[Patrick Hines]

We did Gabby Petito on Netflix. We also did Anatomy of Lies. More about cancer.

[Jillian Betzavali]

I mean, just everything. Every. Going back the staircase, Going back to the Jinx, season one and two. All the Scott Peters.

[Patrick Hines]

All the things that have, like, several episodes.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah, it's all there. Also, we've got a book club if you want to join the book club. Just get in the Facebook group, find the featured post, and you just fill out the Google form. It takes two seconds and you'll be in.

[Patrick Hines]

It's very fun.

[Jillian Betzavali]

What do we do next?

[Patrick Hines]

Girl? Oh, my God. Con Mum on Netflix.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Con Mum? What the hell is that?

[Patrick Hines]

I have a lot of feelings about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

I have a lot of feelings about it.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, my God. God. All right.

[Patrick Hines]

She's someone's mother and she's another. She's another horrible mother.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Is it British?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Okay. That's where the mum comes from.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Should we have tea while we do the next one? No. Okay. A gin and tonic.

[Patrick Hines]

No gin.

[Jillian Betzavali]

That's a British thing. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, is it?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Yeah. All right, well, maybe we'll consider it.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe.

[Jillian Betzavali]

All right, fam. We love you.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Stay safe out there.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

Woof.

[Jillian Betzavali]

If you see Donna, run.

[Patrick Hines]

Werewolf.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Werewolf. She's got businesses all over the world. We're talking, like, hundreds of millions.

[Patrick Hines]

I remember thinking, your life is changing. You're going to have a lot of money. I wish we'd never received that email. It was the start of something which you never in a million years thought.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Was going to happen. Thank you, Dan.

[Patrick Hines]

If I die soon, you're nothing. Eliminate.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She said, you know, I'm an illegitimate.

[Patrick Hines]

Child, but a sultan of Brunei. Thank you, darling.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Everybody's talking to her like she's their mum. What?

[Patrick Hines]

Why is everyone calling mum? Thank you, darling.

[Jillian Betzavali]

She spoke like 18 languages. Crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

She was convinced everything was true. Who is this woman?

[Jillian Betzavali]

Everything could turn out to be be fake.

[Patrick Hines]

Why would I not believe her? Thank you, darling. If the grand call, don't say nothing. Thank you, darling.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Where is the proof that she is actually your mom?

[Patrick Hines]

He will lose his friends, family, lose.

[Lance Reed]

Everything he really longs to feel love.

[Jillian Betzavali]

Which way do you go? Which way?

[Patrick Hines]

I do all my power to give you.