434: A Deadly American Marriage

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed – Episode 434: A Deadly American Marriage

Release Date: June 10, 2025

Introduction

In this gripping episode of True Crime Obsessed, hosts Julia Pezzavale and Patrick Hines delve into the harrowing case titled "A Deadly American Marriage." This episode explores the tragic and violent end of Jason Corbett, delving into the web of deception, manipulation, and brutality involving his wife Molly Corbett and her father, Tom Martins.

The Crime Scene and Initial Investigation

The story begins on August 2nd, 2015, in North Carolina, with a chilling 911 call that sets the tone for the ensuing investigation.

911 Call Breakdown ([03:02] - [04:08]) Tom Martins calmly reports:

"I am at Panther Creek Court and Lange Bottom. We need help. My son-in-law got in a fight with my daughter. I intervened and hit him in the head with a baseball bat. Is he breathing? I can't tell."

In the background, Molly Corbett's cries for help add urgency to the distressing situation. Lieutenant Wanda Thompson responds swiftly:

"I'm up and out the door going to Meadowlands. Somebody needs me." ([03:47])

Upon arrival, Wanda describes the master bedroom as:

"One of the bloodiest crime scenes I've ever seen." ([04:53])

Character Profiles and Relationships

• Molly Corbett: Initially presented as a young au pair who married Jason Corbett. She is portrayed as manipulative and deceitful, with a hidden agenda to gain custody of Jason's children.
• Tom Martins: Molly's father and a retired FBI agent with extensive interrogation expertise. His involvement raises suspicions due to his composed demeanor during the chaotic event.
• Jason Corbett: The victim, described by friends and family as kind, friendly, and dedicated to his children from a previous marriage.
• Jack and Sarah Corbett: Jason's children, aged 10 and 8, whose testimonies play a pivotal role in unraveling the truth.

The Night of the Murder ([09:02] - [10:18])

Tom and Molly recount their version of events to the police. According to Tom:

"It was a battle. There were weapons." ([10:30])

However, inconsistencies emerge:

• No visible injuries on Molly or Tom despite the alleged violent confrontation ([10:38]).
• The lack of blood spatter and the pristine condition of both Molly and Tom contradicts their claims of a brutal fight.

Investigative Doubts and Legal Strategies

ADA Alan Martin expresses skepticism about the self-defense narrative:

"We would be remiss in our duties if we just accepted without any examination what someone who just killed someone is saying." ([14:20])

Key Points:

• Coached Testimonies: Jack and Sarah exhibit unnaturally calm demeanors and use sophisticated language uncharacteristic of their ages ([24:37] - [27:11]).
• Manipulative Behavior: Molly's actions, such as hiding Jason's passports and controlling the children's perceptions, indicate a calculated effort to isolate Jason and secure custody ([37:07] - [39:38]).

Unraveling the Truth

As the investigation progresses, evidence mounts against Molly and Tom:

• Toxicology Report: Jason's blood alcohol level was within legal limits ([52:38]).
• Inconsistencies in Alibis: Tom's claim of a four-hour weekend visit clashes with ADA Allen's discovery of his last-minute canceled business meeting ([69:42]).

Trial Proceedings and Conviction

The trial culminates in the conviction of Molly Corbett and Tom Martins for second-degree murder. Despite their pleas and manipulative testimonies, the overwhelming evidence and inconsistencies lead to their sentencing:

"They each get 20 to 25 years." ([60:31])

Impact on the Children and Family

Jack and Sarah, initially coached to testify against Jason, begin to reclaim their narratives:

• Jack's Revelation: Feeling isolated and betrayed, Jack breaks free from Molly's manipulation, urging for truth and justice ([56:07] - [57:23]).
• Healing Process: Under the guardianship of Tracy and David in Ireland, the children strive to heal from their traumatic past ([54:12] - [60:01]).

Final Reflections

Julia and Patrick express their outrage and sorrow over Molly and Tom's actions, emphasizing the importance of awareness to prevent similar tragedies:

"This is the value of documentaries. Like, this is that, like, maybe they can save another family from this evil, evil woman." ([79:05])

Notable Quotes

• Tom Martins on Self-Defense ([10:30]):

  "It was a battle. There were weapons."

• ADA Alan Martin on Investigation Integrity ([14:20]):

  "We would be remiss in our duties if we just accepted without any examination what someone who just killed someone is saying."

• Jack Corbett's Plea ([55:01]):

  "This can't go public. I miss you and I love you. Keep fighting really hard."

Conclusion

"A Deadly American Marriage" serves as a poignant reminder of the depths of manipulation and the resilience required to uncover the truth. Through meticulous investigation and heartfelt testimonies, Julia and Patrick shed light on a case that underscores the critical importance of vigilance and integrity in the pursuit of justice.

Connect with True Crime Obsessed

For more in-depth discussions and full episodes, join the True Crime Obsessed community on Discord and subscribe to their YouTube channel, now boasting over 10,000 subscribers.

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided. Advertisements and non-content segments have been omitted to focus solely on the true crime narrative.

Transcript

[Julia Pezzavale]

Are you ready for a 39 hour episode?

[Patrick Hines]

Barely. Just barely. Hi.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Julia Pezzavale.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Fam. Hey, if you're looking for a place to join us outside of just listening to the apps and you're not into the Facey, why don't you join us on the disci. It's the Discord.

[Patrick Hines]

Discord is super fun. I've been just saying what we're recording every day to get people excited. So today I'm such a big day.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God. Well, because in addition to this, we're recording our episode of the Karen Reid thing.

[Patrick Hines]

The body in the snow.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where people going wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. People are like, oh, God. Like the other day I was like, you guys, we're doing Southern Fried lies. God help us all.

[Julia Pezzavale]

God save the queen.

[Patrick Hines]

God save us.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Also, join us over on the YouTube. We have over 10,000 subscribers to our YouTube channel now.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So it's just our full episodes. Only you can see us.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know people. I've been meeting people on tour and they've been saying, like, they. Some people have switched fully over to YouTube.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that right?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, they're like, they love watching us. We give good YouTube. It's true crime Obsessed podcast. We do our full episodes. We do, like, little previews of the episodes. We're interviewing Nancy from Skamanda. We're putting that all on YouTube as well.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's all regular feed episodes.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, regular feed episodes. That's it, girl. What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. We're talking about a deadly American marriage.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I am never going to. I'm like, it's an American murder mystery. It's an American mystery montage.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's safe.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You never know who you think you know. What have you done? The kids were in bed asleep when this occurred.

[Julia Pezzavale]

They had lost their father.

[Patrick Hines]

Did you ever see him?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Mommy made me die.

[Patrick Hines]

What is the truth and what's not on the outside of the house?

[Julia Pezzavale]

The house looks like sunshines and rainbows. And on the inside.

[Patrick Hines]

We learn that there are secret recordings. If I hadn't screamed that night, he would have just strangled me.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I never saw my dad ever lay hands on Molly.

[Patrick Hines]

My dad is a really amazing person. I was going to save her life and I have no regrets. What really happened?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Who is the victim here? So we open on November 8, 2023. We see Sarah and Jack. We're gonna learn they are the kids of our victim Jason here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Cause we also see that in 2015, they were interviewed about their Father Jason, who is our victim.

[Julia Pezzavale]

It's gonna go back and forth from 2015 to today where the kids were young and this is when the murder happened. And today they're adults. Like every single person involved in this crime is in this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

It is, yeah, unfortunately, except for Jason. And we can thank the people we're about to meet for that. So it's August 2nd. Not thanking them at all. They are fucking monsters. August 2nd, 2015 eight years earlier we're in North Carolina. There's a 911 call and Tom, who is Jack and Sarah, who we just met, the kids, their grandfather. So Tom calls 91 1. He goes, hello, my name is Tom Martins.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Very calm. He's very calm.

[Patrick Hines]

He will remain calm this entire time. So punchable. I'm at Panther Creek Court and long beat. We need help.

[Julia Pezzavale]

My son in law got in a.

[Patrick Hines]

Fight with my daughter.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I intervened and I. I get him in the head with.

[Patrick Hines]

Fought with a baseball bat.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Is he conscious at all? No.

[Patrick Hines]

Is he breathing? I can't tell. Tom hit him in the head with what you asked?

[Julia Pezzavale]

A baseball bat.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God. He's so calm. We hear Molly in the background crying for help. And we hear her crying right as Tom is telling 911 that Jason is completely unconscious.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right. We don't know if he's breathing. He's not conscious. We meet Lieutenant Wanda Thompson. I'm obsessed with her. I could say that name all day. Lieutenant Wanda Thompson.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a great. Wanda is great. Love that.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

I've been doing this long enough to know that when your Phone rings at 3:00am it's never good.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. She's like, I'm up and out the door going to Meadowlands. Meadowlands is the neighborhood in North Carolina.

[Patrick Hines]

Where Wanda shaped hole in the door. She's like, I'm out of here. 3:00am Bad news bears. Somebody needs me. I need to help. Somebody want a shaped hole in the door? Out she goes.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Can I just tell you, in my live show, there's a point where I walk through a glass door. Like I smash into a glass door and I go, but you're not bringing.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not like a prop glass door.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No, but I have a picture of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, great.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And at my last show, somebody was like, why don't you make that there's a Patrick shaped hole in the door? Because there literally is.

[Patrick Hines]

And you didn't do that.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I've never made that. But going forward. Oh yeah, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's right in there.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Do you know the first time you made that Joke. It must have been. I don't know what episode it was. Somebody in the facey tell me it was early.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it was the woman who wasn't there. I think it was about the 9 11.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I remember laughing, like laughing harder. I just. That was the beginning of like. Oh, shit. This is.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh God.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

That's where it all started.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That was a great throwback. I'm impressed.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. The first thing I thought of, she was like, it's bad news. But I'm out the door. Wanda is here as well. So we learn from multiple people. Wanda is one of them. I go into the house and I look inside the master bedroom and it's pretty horrific. It's one of the bloodiest crime scenes I've seen in a long time. She says it's one of the bloodiest crime scenes she has ever seen. I would really love if we didn't have nearly as many photos as we do of this crime scene.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You know, I'm with you. I'm very. There was a moment I thought we were gonna see some images of John because they describe how badly beaten he was. I do think it is worth seeing how violent this crime scene really is.

[Patrick Hines]

For the sake of the truth.

[Julia Pezzavale]

For the sake of the truth. Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I think we can very easily get that in a handful of photos. We see it a lot. But I know what they're. I hear what you're saying. What they're trying to do is say like, here's what the crime scene is. Here's the bunch of bullshit you're gonna be fed. Two and two don't mix here.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No. And so the female involved in the story, her name is Molly Corbett. Her husband is Jason Corbett. He's the victim. Molly and her dad are immediately taken downtown because we learned that Molly and her dad have beaten Jason to death. They are gonna say in self defense. We will see about that.

[Patrick Hines]

So Molly says that she and Jason were fighting because their daughter had a nightmare and woke him up. And this sent Jason into a rage.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Jason started to choke Molly. Her dad, Tom, the grandfather, hears her screaming to save her.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No, it takes way too. And I know why they do it this way. But we'll find out later why the grandfather and the grandmother are there. Yeah, right. They just happen to be. They don't live there with them. They just happen to be visiting. And they're sleeping in the basement.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So he hears this arguing and thumping going on upstairs. So Tom, the grand house away, grabs a baseball bat and runs upstairs. I'm like wow, that's a choice.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Do you have any idea where a baseball bat is at your grandparents house? Because I don't. Or like at your. Like if I'm staying at Steve's parents house and I were in the guest room down in the baseball. I don't know where the baseball bat is.

[Patrick Hines]

No. But I know where we have our. Like if you need to grab something, if someone's breaking in in our apartment.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But what I'm saying is it's almost as though this baseball bat were staged. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

It's almost as if he knew. Exactly. And that his first idea is I need my baseball.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I need my baseball.

[Patrick Hines]

Not like, oh wow, maybe someone fell.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

He's just going exactly. Into attack mode.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road.

[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Because our whole thing is like we want to have a co cocktail or two, but we're not canceling the next day.

[Julia Pezzavale]

We've all done it. So listen. Zebiotics pre alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. And guess what? It really freaking works.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes. It's the buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking.

[Patrick Hines]

Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow.

[Julia Pezzavale]

We had a party last week after our friend's Robbie show. We threw him like a little after party. Steve walked around handing these out to people as they walked in the door and like two or three people were like, why do I feel fine? The next day they were texting us. We're like, because we gave you that little shot when you walked in.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And also, like they say, still be responsible. Like have that glass of water in between the drinks. Of course. Like make sure you're eating.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But yeah, it's great.

[Julia Pezzavale]

So fam, summer is here. Which means more opportunities to celebrate the warmer weather.

[Patrick Hines]

Before that chardonnay on the porch or a glass of watching the sunset at the beach or elsewhere by the campfire. Don't forget your Zebiotics Pre alcohol.

[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Remember to head to zebiotics.com tco and use code tco at checkout for 15% off.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Thank you, Zbiotics, for sponsoring this episode and our good times.

[Patrick Hines]

Mostly our good times.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Mostly our good times.

[Patrick Hines]

So Tom busts in. These are all his story. Him and Molly are telling the cops the story.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And this. Remember, Molly is the wife and Tom.

[Patrick Hines]

Is the dad of Molly, the grandfather. And so Tom Busson sees Jason choking his daughter. And that's when Jason notices Tom, doubles down, actually starts hurting his wife, Molly.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Even more, saying to her father, I'm going to kill her. I'm going to kill her. According to Tom.

[Patrick Hines]

And as J. Jason, our victim, is saying he's gonna kill Molly. He then is dragging Molly into the bathroom. Into the bathroom. And that's when Tom, according to Tom, hits Jason with the baseball bat. And then Jason some. Again, this is all bullshit. But this is Tom's story, right?

[Julia Pezzavale]

And it's going back and forth now between Molly and Jason.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Jason somehow grabs the baseball bat, starts attacking Molly's dad, and that's when everyone. Molly says, I. I hit him on the head on my nightstand. Okay. I'm not sure I want the head or the shoulder with a large brick that just happens to be on her nightstand.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That she can pick up with one hand in the middle of all of this. This enormous brick that we will see later is huge.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It is described as a cinder block.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And then hits Jason.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And it's like Molly is sobbing. Tom, the dad, cool as a fucking cucumber.

[Patrick Hines]

We. It's weird because we don't have any specifics. They don't know how many times anyone. But Tom says, quote, it was a battle.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

They were in a fight for their lives. It was a battle. There were weapons. And yet not a single injury on Molly, nor her father or.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Or a blood spatter of any kind. They are completely unscathed, unchanged, but yet they were in a. Both of them in a fight. For, to hear them tell it, they were each saving the other one's life.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Pezzavale]

As Jason was trying to kill them.

[Patrick Hines]

Both, who flew into a wild, murderous, violent Rage. Because his daughter had a nightmare.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, her dad is sitting there like a. The good North Carolinian man. He is.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

With his polo shirt and his little teeny tiny shorts. Legs crossed.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Legs crossed.

[Patrick Hines]

Not a care in the world. Not a care in the world.

[Julia Pezzavale]

He just killed a guy. And so Wanda's like, I'm sorry, hi, Ben and Julie.

[Patrick Hines]

But you know, those shorts and the legs crossed.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Ben's got 20 pairs of the polo shirt.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like, for golf. Like that whole lot. Please. So Wanda's like, I'm sorry, who is the victim here? This doesn't make any sense.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So we learn, like, the Jason and Molly story.

[Julia Pezzavale]

We see Molly be told that Jason did not survive his injuries and she is not surprised at all.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Well, I mean, she shouldn't.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, she bashed his head in with it.

[Patrick Hines]

We've already seen the crime scene photos. Exactly.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jason and Molly were together seven years. They have two kids, but they're from Jason's first marriage, Jack and Sarah. And Jason's first wife is a. Mags.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. By the way, I love it. Her name is Margaret, but her, like, she goes by Mag.

[Patrick Hines]

Very Irish.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is where Jason's from, by the way.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jason's first wife is named Mags. Mags died.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes. Of an asthma attack, we're told.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So when Wanda. Lt. Wanda asked Molly if she needs to call Jason's family, who's. They're all over in Ireland.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm scared of kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You guys are only going there, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. You adopt the children? No. Then that's a real possibility. They were legally married, but Molly, for whatever reason. We'll get into it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Never formally adopted the children. So it's a very real possibility.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Wanda says straight to her face, well, it's a real possibility. And like that they're gonna be taken from her. Exactly. Now we go to Ireland. It's one day after Jason's death. We meet Tracy, who's Jason's sister. And she explains that their brother got a call that Jason was dead. And the story they got was that Molly and Jason had an argument, she pushed him, he fell and hit his head, and he died.

[Patrick Hines]

Who told them that story? Cuz that's not the.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Not anywhere near the story.

[Patrick Hines]

Not what happened?

[Julia Pezzavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, who told the family this? Molly.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right. Well, so speaking of Molly, Tracy, the sister, immediately starts calling Molly. Molly is not taking her calls. And Tracy's just like, all I knew is that I had to get on a flight and go to America, right now. Where are the kids? We are their legal guardians based on the will that Jason wrote. Like, we got to get there.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Tracy, Jason's sister, and her husband David are the official guardians of the kids. So they are in Janesborough in Limerick in Ireland. And they. Within hours, like, hear about they. But they take the will with them. I love these people.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know. Me too.

[Patrick Hines]

And this also means, for many reasons, they know it's going to be a fight because why isn't Molly talking to them? And we will learn that they knew that things were very bad between Jason and Molly.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Anyway, from the jump, we're going to get, like, some crazy shit that went down on the wedding day that made everybody on Jason's side be like, what? So Detective Wanda says they immediately start coordinating with the district attorney's office to see where the case would go from there. And we meet Alan Martin, who's. He's the assistant district attorney. And he said it was immediately clear that this is going to be a case outside of what we typically deal with. Like, the bloodiest crime scene any of them have seen in a career. The most brutalized body any of them have seen in a career.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, Tom, the dad, the grandfather, is a retired FBI agent.

[Julia Pezzavale]

So he was an FBI agent for 30 years. Half of his career in criminal, he says, the other half, counterintelligence.

[Patrick Hines]

And Allen's like, he knows, quote, the art of interrogation, and he's taught it to others.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Allen says some amazing things here. He says, alan's the ada. He says, we'd be remiss in our duties if we just accepted. Without any examination. Yes. What someone who just killed someone is saying to us. And I'm like, look, self defense is real. If Jason was an abusive asshole, I'm glad he's dead.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

He's not.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But the point is, we need to ask questions. And if one of the killers is law enforcement, we really need to ask questions. We can't just be like, you're law enforcement. You're all good.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But I do love that the ADA has the foresight to be like, Tom.

[Patrick Hines]

Martins is a retired FBI agent, and he has been schooled in and has schooled other officers on the art of interrogation. We would be remiss in our duties if we ever just accepted wholesale and without examination what any person who's killed.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Somebody has to say, this guy's gonna know how to work this interrogation. So we can't let. He's saying he's already trying to run the interrogation. We see him Say to the person interviewing him. Perhaps it would be helpful if I launched into my story because it will contribute to my state of mind.

[Patrick Hines]

Legs crossed, coffee sipped.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Girl. Yeah, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, cool as a cucumb.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You ever think that, like, if you ever encounter lawn, like, I will know what to Just based on what we do for a living. I'd be great in an interrogation.

[Patrick Hines]

Lawyer.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

You say one word, that's all you say.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, yeah. Or if you were to, like, come home and, like, your. Your house, your apartment looks weird. Like, you would immediately know not to touch anything. Get out of there. Don't let anybody in.

[Patrick Hines]

Look at what time it was.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You know what I mean? Like, it's just a weird job.

[Patrick Hines]

Fiona probably scared them off. She has a hell of a bar.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Does she?

[Patrick Hines]

She's the sweetest. Oh, yeah. She has that hound bark.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Do you know that golden will only bark at dogs that are bigger than him?

[Patrick Hines]

Golden will go get one of those complexes and attack.

[Julia Pezzavale]

What? What is that?

[Patrick Hines]

He thinks he' is. It happens all the time.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Is that right? It's very cute. The only other kind of dog that he will bark at that, other than dogs that are bigger than him is his own damn reflection. He wants to beat his own ass.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Pezzavale]

When he sees this reflection in the mirror or in the elevator, he goes bananas.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so cute. My first dog, Jesse, used to get, like, zoomies when he would see himself in the mirror. My dad used to take him to the office for a patient. He was like a. Like a. Not official therapy dog, but he was like a little white, little puffy dog. So he would go to the office and the patients loved him. But because my dad, he had, like, mirrors all over the office because it was like physical therapy. And so the first time Jesse saw himself, he was like, who is this?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Who's that fox?

[Patrick Hines]

How they. And my dad still laughs. He's like, remember when Jesse first saw himself and was like, running laps around the office, like, there's two of me. So Tom, the dad never says that he saw Molly hit Jason?

[Julia Pezzavale]

No. Molly beat his skull in with a brick.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That's not. That's. There's. That's not up for debate.

[Patrick Hines]

No. They both, like. The two of them attacked Jason. Yeah, it's very clear.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, Molly's mother is in the house.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She's in the basement the entire time. Her name is Sharon. Her story, Wanda doesn't trust her as.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Far as she can throw her because.

[Patrick Hines]

Sharon listen to this bullshit. Sharon goes, oh, I woke up in the middle of the night, the dogs were barking, Molly was screaming. There was thumping. Same word the dad used, by the way. Could be nothing, could be something.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Dad just happens to know where the bat is.

[Patrick Hines]

Her husband Tom, Molly's dad, gets up out of bed to take care of the ruckus. And that's Sharon rolls over and goes back to sleep. Sharon Martens is telling us she never responded in any way to this horrible, violent, explosive event that was happening right upstairs in a house full of people that she loved. It just doesn't quite add up. People are screaming, dogs are barking. You just doze off. You don't check on the two little kids in the house.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Good night, Sharon.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut up.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That's exactly what she did do, actually.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we never hear from her again. Bye. Look at the fucking whatever. Also, this 911 call sounds fake. All the EMS people are like, no, they're like pretending to do CPR.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, and this is new news to me. I've got these friends that are nurses and they were explaining to me how physically, if you're not breaking ribs when you're doing cpr, then you're not doing it right. It's one of those where it's like. And. And they're Cuz you can Hear Molly going, 1, 2, 3. And they're just faking it.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like the. They say the precision and the rhythm are like, too good.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like they. They realize staying alive, staying alive, staying alive. But like, you were doing cpr. I thought he was an abusive asshole.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Weird, right? And also the Ms. Workers say that by the time they got there, Jason's body was cool to the touch. To the point that one of the EMS workers asked another one, wait, what time do they say this guy went down? Yeah, and like, Alan and Wanda are both like. It is very possible that they killed Jason and then took as much time as they wanted to to get their story straight before calling the cops.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. What happened?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Like, oh my God. Like, was this premeditated on everybody's part?

[Patrick Hines]

No, just Molly's.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, I think her dad. But the dad was just all in. He's the opposite of me.

[Patrick Hines]

I think her dad taught her a lot of. A lot about how to l. And being. I mean, I think some of it is inherently Molly because she's fucking out of her mind.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But I think her dad was a total enabler.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I'm so glad to hear you say that because I was watching this and I was like, what if. What. My thinking about Molly is not correct.

[Patrick Hines]

No, she's crazy. She's out of her mind. She's abusive, she's manipulative and she's a murderer.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like not living in reality.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And she went into this whole thing with a plan.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Travel down the road.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Back again, girl. Chime is back. Give us the 411.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Chime gets it. Okay. They understand that every dollar counts. So that's why when set up direct deposit through Chime you get access to fee free features like free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit and more.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Also they've got 24. 7 customer support. Look, I've actually used this. You never know when you're going to be like at a restaurant at three in the morning and like you need the Chime people and they are there. Yeah, like give me one other company that's taking your call at 3am also.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. My favorite part. You have access to 50,000 fee free ATMs nationwide.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I've told you this. That I once spent sick a $6 fee because I needed 20 bucks. Right. I needed it desperately. I paid like not with Chime. I would have found one of those fee free ATMs.

[Patrick Hines]

50,000.

[Julia Pezzavale]

It's unbelievable. And listen, Chime is banking done. Right. Right. So you can open a checking account with no monthly fees and no maintenance fees. You can get paid up to two days early when you set up direct deposit. And with a qualifying direct deposit you're eligible for for free overdraft up to 200 bucks on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open an account in two minutes at Chime.com/TCO.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That's Chime.com/TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

Chime feels like progress.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Chime is the financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancord Bank. NA or Stride Bank. NA members fdic Spot me. Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment. Financ file fees Apply it out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs. According to US News and World Report. 2023 chime checking account required.

[Patrick Hines]

Nailed it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Did I do it?

[Patrick Hines]

You did it. Out of the park.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

We so within 48 hours Molly and her family file for guardianship of the kids. Full adoption of the kids and full custody of the kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Are still not taking calls from Jason's family.

[Patrick Hines]

Stonewalling the family.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now remember, remember Jason's family knew these kids before Molly did. Yes, of Course, again, we're going to say a lot of things here that, like, it doesn't always matter, but in this specific case it does. So this doesn't apply to you. Congratulations. You're having a great day because the.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Story'S fucking horrifying, but, like, really take it in. Congratulations. She said congratulations.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, we know. We love chosen family. We know that that doesn't matter. I'm talking about this specific situation.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This woman is completely in the wrong to be saying the things that she's saying about these kids. They are not her kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Correct.

[Patrick Hines]

If this doesn't apply to you, then move on. Congratulations. Be grateful for what you have. Consider yourself lucky.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Everything we're about to say about, like, the fact that she's being overbearing and that she considers those kids hers is very specific to this woman and this case.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Have I made myself clear?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

Fantastic.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Crystal Clear is your drag name.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you. That's a great fucking drag name, actually. So not only that, though, we spoke to the funeral director trying to get to see Jason, and he apologized profusely. But he had been given clear instructions that we were not allowed to view Jason. I believe that Molly's trying to cremate Jason's body.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Before I got there, Tracy, Jason's sister, thinks that Molly is trying to have his body cremated before the family can get there. That is fucked. But, but the idea of not letting them see the body, I'm. I'm kind of on board with that.

[Patrick Hines]

But they were given clear instructions not to let them in. That's different.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, them or anyone, I. I was sort of. I went back to watch that part because I, I don't. What. Whatever. My, my point is, like, we heard, like, the D A himself is crying when he's explaining what the body is.

[Patrick Hines]

The family should be given the option. If they're given clear instructions, that means Bali told them not to be allowed in. That's what happened. Because she doesn't want the family to see what she did to them.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like you're saying, though. But ADA Allen can't talk about it without crying.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, we rarely see that.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's very. It's really, really bad.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Jason's family fought for four days and they were eventually able to see Jason's body. So I'm. And I'm sure in many ways they wish they hadn't.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But the family knows something is up. And Tracy, immediate makes a promise to her brother Jason. She's going to find out what happened to him. And she's going to take care of those kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

So DA Allen explains they get the autopsy results, and he explains how horrific this really was. He says he had abrasions on his forehead, under his eye, under his shoulder blades. He said. And then we get to the head. He said, In 30 years of prosecuting, I've never seen photographs like these. He had so many blows to his head that the pathologist couldn't even count them because they overlapped. And he said a chunk of his stomach skull fell out onto the table during the examination. It's hard. That's how. I mean, the overkill here is just absolutely unbelievable.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it doesn't matter. Like that is so bad that what they both said and how they both acted in the interrogation makes no sense. Right. And doesn't call for any of this.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, and it also just not like.

[Patrick Hines]

Anything calls for it. You know what I'm saying?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. But what I mean, what I was going to say was that, like, the brutality that they just experienced, like if they were normal people who were in such an extreme circumstance that they had to beat a man to death so brutally, you would think they would be.

[Patrick Hines]

Inconsolable or at least covered in like a little bit of blood.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Just a tiny bit. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So four days after Jason's death, Jack and Sarah, his kids, need to be interviewed because they were there when this happened.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Jack is 10 and Sarah is 8. Yeah. Jack tells. We go. We go through Jack first.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's. I'm just gonna say it's very clear that these kids were coached.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, they're saying words that make no sense for an 8 or a 10 year old to say.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's. They're also incredibly calm. They're not terrified or horrified about what just happened to their dad.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They ask, how did your dad die? And he says very calmly, well, my sister had a nightmare about insects calling.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She had fairy blankets and insects all over her bed. My dad got very mad and he.

[Patrick Hines]

Was screaming at my mom, and mom.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Got screaming and my grandpa came up and started to hit him with a bat. And then my dad gripped over the bat.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, my sister had a nightmare.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like a long, like. Well, like as if he's repeating something that was rehearsed.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Because the way this goes, they're not reciting a script. They're trying to get something that they want. And what they want is to stay with Molly.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And they want 8 and 10. Right. And so there I was thinking about this. Cause I do quizzes with Daisy for school all the time. Trying to get her to memorize something and spit it back to me is very difficult. But if I say to her, hey, if you can tell me a general version of this story and you're gonna get 100 on the quiz or you're gonna get ice cream at the end of the day, she'll totally be able to do that. And that's what these kids are doing. They're not trying to recite a script. They have vague bullet points they know they have to hit in order for them to stay with Molly.

[Patrick Hines]

And some of those things are very oddly worded for a child.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you know, my mom let out a scream.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And then my grandpa came up and start to hit him with a bat. Let out a scream.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it goes. I know they're, they're Irish, but.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, what's crazy Irish people in, in this interview, when they're 8 and 10, they have an American accent.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And later they have an Irish. It's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

So I can't wait to go to Ireland.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Have you ever been?

[Patrick Hines]

No, but I have to go like, yeah, you got Homeland.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, you got to go like Italy.

[Patrick Hines]

And Ireland on my top.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

But anyway, he says Jack is 10 years old and he is describing what happened to his father.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He says my mom picked up a brick, like a cinder block.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And hit his temple right here and he died.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I am not an expert on children, but what the fuck?

[Julia Pezzavale]

No. And later, both kids will say that their dad was really violent towards Molly all the time. And then they'll be asked, well, did you ever see him hit her? And they'll say once, once or twice.

[Patrick Hines]

But they also use a lot of words that 8 year olds and 10 year old don't generally use. You had physically and verbally hurt my. Physically and verbally hurt my mom. That's unusual and stands out.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That is just not a thing. I don't even think my 11 year old knows the word verbally.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

It's just not how any 10 year old would talk.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

And so whenever they ask, like, so on the one hand we have these two kids describing extensive abuse.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's how they're describing it that's very alarming.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right, right, right.

[Patrick Hines]

And whenever they're asked how they know something, the answer is always 100% of the time. My mom told me what is like, so what's the truth? What's not? Were they coached? Was their mother like grooming them? That Jason was This horrible guy.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Why aren't they more upset about this?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. Because there's no fear in their tone when they're. They're like. They're like, coloring and they're like. You know what I mean? They're not reliving memories. They're spitting out things they've been told to say.

[Patrick Hines]

These kids are being abused also. Like, what's going on here? It's very clear that, like, they're not doing the nefarious thing. Like, something bad has happened to them.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And we were talking about this off mic. I had such complicated feelings about this documentary with, like, these kids have been forced to relive their trauma over and over and over all throughout their lives, and now they're doing it again, being a part of this documentary. This was very hard for me to watch.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it was tough. So the cops in North Carolina reach out to Jason's family because they want to verify things that Molly and her father told them.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Like how Jason is this trained MMA fighter.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

His family is in the IRA because.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Tom and Molly were trying to justify why they had to use such insane, deadly force. And it's because Jason was just a regular guy. He was not into martial arts. He was not an MMA fighter.

[Patrick Hines]

Ira. But of course, these things are ridiculous. They were just doing everything they could to destroy his character. Tracee's like, quite frankly, it was pretty fucking insulting.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And to me, it's like, these are such provable lies. Like, Tom. Why is Tom being so sloppy?

[Patrick Hines]

They do that over and over again, and people like that don't give a shit. Yeah, they don't care. They just don't care. So none of that shit is true. The truth is that everybody loved Jason. His family meant everything to him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Brendan, his friend says he was everybody's friend. He's always smiling.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So let's talk about Mags.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Jason's first wife. And they were introduced by Lynn, who's Mag's best friend.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And, like, Jason's own sister is like, I never thought of Jason as a romantic until he met Mags. Like, she changed everything.

[Patrick Hines]

They were super in love, meant for each other. Everyone says it. Everyone is like, everything was really like, they couldn't have been happier. They loved each other. They loved their kids. They had great jobs.

[Julia Pezzavale]

We see this video. Oh, my God. Wait. Mags opened a crash, we're told. I had to look it up. It's a daycare. Yeah, she had a daycare. But we see this video from their wedding day. And my Note here. She is just glorious. Like, I can't explain it any. Any better than that. She just seems amazing. She seems like she's so fun, but so compassionate and empathetic and just a really good time. There's just something magical about this woman.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, they couldn't have been happier, especially because of the kids. Like, it was just like heaven on earth, right?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Mags suffers an asthma attack and she dies.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. We get a little bit into this later. Like, it is a very strange cause of death.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a very real cause of death, though. Like, it happens. It's not like.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I guess. Yeah. I mean, I don't think anything nefarious happened. It's just. It's a strange cause of death.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a tragic, horrible thing that happened.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She died of an asthma attack, which is a very real way to pass away. As unfortunate and scary as it is, it's not the most common thing in the world, but it does happen.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. It just. It stood out to me as, like, that's weird. Not weird in this. I don't think Jason did anything to her.

[Patrick Hines]

He did not.

[Julia Pezzavale]

He. He did not. But, like, it's a. To me, it felt like a. Oh, like a thing you put on a death certificate when there's some sort of, like, respiratory related illness or something. You know what I mean? Just, like, to die of an asthma attack felt. I've just. I grew up with asthma, and I don't think we've ever heard of a case where somebody's died of asthma in all of the episodes we've done. Yeah. It just seems. It seems.

[Patrick Hines]

We definitely haven't talked about it, but I looked it up today. Like, it's a very real.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And people do just die of asthma because, like, she had her inhaler. Like, she. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, and again, like, it's rare. There are ways to hopefully prevent it, but, like, it's not the most uncommon thing. It's not the rarest way.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No. And, like. But, like, I'm not the only one. Like, the point is, eventually down the road, they're gonna try to say that Jason killed her. He did not. Which is so stupid and ridiculous. But it doesn't help that it's this kind of vague, weird cause of death.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. You know, but Jason was devastated. His sister says Jason, in that moment, was just broken into pieces. He would write letters to Mags and.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Leave them at the grave site. He was writing letters and leaving them on her graves. Like a fucking Bronte novel.

[Patrick Hines]

Every single day.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Like, oh, my God, he misses her.

[Patrick Hines]

He'd update her about the kids, about, like, Sarah lost her first tooth.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I was afraid he was going to die of a broken heart. It was that bad.

[Patrick Hines]

He says something. Oh, my God. I took a screenshot of it. It broke my. I won't be around for a couple days, so enjoy the champagne and flowers.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That he left for her.

[Patrick Hines]

He left for her. You will always be the love of my life and the girl of my dreams. You stole my heart on 6, 9 97. Which I guess for us would be September 6th, 6997. When we held hands walking into Sean's shop. And God shattered it, along with our hopes and dreams when he took you from us. Every day he's writing her letters like this.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Do you ever. Because I do this all the time. Do you ever just, like, realize how lucky you are that my didn't die.

[Patrick Hines]

Every second of the day?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, I think about it all the time. That, like, Steve and I don't have a tragic love story. Like, how amazing that is.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I. It's why, like, every time one of us leaves the house, like, we say, I love you.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, we. I mean, it's this morning.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Daisy didn't kiss dad goodbye on the way. I made her go back and give him a kiss. Yeah, but that's why. That's why when we encounter kids like these, kids that experience tragedy after tragedy after tragedy, I'm like, give me. I'll take one of those away from those kids. You know, the same thing with the Karen Reed, John's kids and Karen Reed. It's like tragedy after tr. And that is what is so fucking heartbreaking about these things.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jason, you know, like, his sister says, he had very little space to grieve. He was a single father of two very young kids. He had to go to work. So he's. He's dealing with so much. Yeah, right. And it had. It came out of nowhere. The rug got pulled out from under him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So he hires an au pair.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That au pair was Molly. And I almost fell out of my chair because Molly sits down two. I was like, what?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Couldn't believe it.

[Patrick Hines]

Why is she in normal clothes?

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Why isn't she shackled a la Lori Valo, sitting down with Keith Morrison? And, like, why the fuck is she here?

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know. And she. Molly tells us she was in her early 20s. She was in a relationship. She got unexpectedly pregnant and then had a miscarriage. And the Miscarriage was devastating. But then she says she also realized she didn't want to spend the rest of her life with that partner. And she thought it would be easier if she just went away. So she joined an au pair company.

[Patrick Hines]

And when Jason reached out to me, he indicated on his profile that he had had lost. I guess that just pulled on my heartstrings. There were these two babies without a mother and maybe I had an ache to fill that need.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And something about that really spoke to her.

[Patrick Hines]

You wanna know the truth?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She was engaged at the time. Her fiance wrote a book three years before Jason was murdered about her, about her and his experience with her and like how he overcame it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And before she was known for having been involved.

[Patrick Hines]

Really, they were engaged. She told him that she was going to Ireland temporarily. She was in like a mental health facility. She was diagnosed with a bunch of things and he thought that she was coming back. So she's even. She's lying to us right now.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

It's pathological. Like she's just completely. Who knows what she believes day to day, minute to minute. But he wrote a book.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Wow. What's the book called?

[Patrick Hines]

It's called Turning this Thing Around. His name is Keith.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is the kind of person Mr. Morrison, if you're not saying we're dealing with.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Do you know what I mean? So now I'm like, oh my God. Her father Tom sits down too. The other murderer.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

Again, not in a jumpsuit, not shaggled, just totally fine. Like he's out living his life. And I'm like, this is going to be even worse than I thought.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's going to be worse than I thought.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know, girl. Ritual is back. You know what? Ritual is not.

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I'm all about the Woo Woo. But I need to know what's in it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Exactly. Yeah. Woo woo. But tell me what's in it.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

Well listen, you want to hear the results of these studies that they've already Completed?

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

Which is Ritual increased vitamin D levels by 43% and Omega 3 DHA levels by 41 in just 12 weeks. You need that stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. What you also need are a bunch of nutrients, like, throughout the day, which.

[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

And this we've been talking about for literally nine years. Ritual's been with us from the beginning. We're talking about these gaps in your diet that Richard Ritual is helping you fill. And they're doing it in a way where you can read and understand everything that's on the label. What is not to love? Why are you not signed up? Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

And there you are. So, fam. No more shady business Rituals. Essential for Women 18/plus is a multivitamin you can actually trust.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

Just do it. Fill in those gaps.

[Patrick Hines]

Seriously, it's enough already. So, Molly. This is when Molly starts to talk about things where I'm like, oh, this is again, really bad because she heads to Ireland.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She went with a plan. She went to steal these kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Because she also had no experience as an au pair. No experience in childcare. She just lied.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

To, like, find a mark and find. I'm sorry. The saddest guy on this app. Jason had every right to be sad, but she found someone who was vulnerable.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And she's like, I'm a young, pretty girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Got her eyelashes out. And what happened is Jason and Molly are romantically involved almost immediately, which has to be illegal in the au pair world. You would think, but she's not really an au pair. No, but she lied to that agency. Like, that agency should kind of like look into the people they allow on their site. And the kids start calling her mom right away, which is also, like, you're the au pair.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But, like, I also feel like. Like, did she tell them to do that?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure she did.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I know she did, because we'll get to it later. But, like, I'm sure she was like, no, I'm your mommy now.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She says that later.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And we learn about the, about the Jason Molly relationship and that, like, I mean, it was mostly driven by Molly. She's the one who's like, going on walks on the beach with his family and like, drifting behind to like, walk with her brother in law or walk with Jason's brother in law to be like, I think there's more to this. And so I think that we're in love.

[Patrick Hines]

Jason wanted to slow things down because he actually wrote this to Molly in several emails. And we have those.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I love that Tracy has, like gotten into his email, has all the receipts.

[Patrick Hines]

I love Tracy.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Jason is focused on the kids and he's like, look, I know that maybe there's something brewing between us, but, like, I don't want them to go through any other drama or trauma in their lives. Like, I really can't have them getting close to someone only for them to disappear again. So we gotta figure out what this is or what this isn't gonna be. Or he's trying to have boundaries and Molly's not receptive. She goes, I'm not gonna be strung along until you make a decision. I'm like, I don't think that's what he's saying. No.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And. But like, all she wants is the kids. Like, she went into this to steal those kids from him.

[Patrick Hines]

So eventually they're engaged. And I'm like, molly pushed, Molly won.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

This was her plan the whole time.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And they moved to the United States. She gets him away from his family.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, she says she's like, we decided. And again, because of her and her father, Jason is not here to tell his side of the story.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Molly says, ultimately we decided to move to the United States.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Molly.

[Patrick Hines]

Mostly it was the lifestyle. And in particular, the lifestyle in regard to raising children. Especially when it comes to raising children.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, I just don't know about that. It feels like a dog whistle of some kind.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't hear from Jason's family on this, so who knows? It just seems like a ridiculous thing to say.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know. And like, with his whole family.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause our stellar, sparkling education system. I think she dragged him here. I think she did or manipulated him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And when you think about it too, his wife Jessica died. His family is right there. Like, if you're the family, aren't you pissed that the kids are now being taken away? But they. They tried. The. His family tries to be happy for them. In the beginning, like, oh, and the kids, by the way, loved the move.

[Patrick Hines]

To North Carolina, they're 15 and 17.

[Julia Pezzavale]

They love the huge house, the big yard. There's a trampoline. They've got a dog. Everyone in town is really nice to them. They're super involved in activities. Like, for the kids, life is really.

[Patrick Hines]

Good, and that's great. It be should. That's the kids. Their lives should be great.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone's lives should be great, actually, except for Molly and her father.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, there's, like, a handful of other people. I can give you a list of.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, 20 this specific documentary.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh. Because I'm happy to wander down that road.

[Patrick Hines]

We could. Who has the time? So the weddings in North Carolina, of course, Jason's whole family went over, quote, to support him, and I'm like, I hear you.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But they're, like, having a good time. Like, the night before the wedding, they're all out singing and dancing and drinking and getting hammered.

[Patrick Hines]

Molly made them all go to nascar.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know. Whatever. You couldn't drink. Drag me to nascar. There are things that you wouldn't think that I would do that I would do. I would go to a shooting range. I would do things like that. I'm never going to nascar.

[Patrick Hines]

I feel like it's one of those things where if you're there, you're suddenly rooting for your favorite color car, but Maybe.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But I would feel unsafe. Truly. Like, at a NASCAR event.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I'm not, like, itching to go.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No, no, no. I feel like somehow I feel like you'd be popular at a NASCAR event, though.

[Patrick Hines]

Why?

[Julia Pezzavale]

I don't know. I could just see, like, your look and, like, people in a NASCAR event would like you, I think.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that. I'm definitely not going.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You should not go.

[Patrick Hines]

But everyone says they time, like, Brendan, the best friend. The atmosphere was fantastic. Like, I'm. If they had fun, great. I just want everyone to be happy. But right on cue, everything changes at the wedding.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, this is the. Well, okay, this is either really weird or not weird. I've got a theory on it not being weird.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, you're crazy. Tracy, Jason's sister, talks to Susie, the maid of honor, and Susie's like, oh, my God. Can you believe this whole thing?

[Julia Pezzavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Molly goes over to be the godmother to a best friend, Mags kids, and now she's getting married.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Okay. That I will say somebody did DM me today and was like, you have to talk about how the au pair knew the mom as a kid. I'm like, no, that's not real.

[Patrick Hines]

That's a lie.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That's A lie.

[Patrick Hines]

But Molly is telling all of her American friends.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, Molly goes over there to be the godparent to Jason's kids since she was childhood friends with Mags, and now, like, you know, she's gonna be their stepmom. She's Mags best friend. Her best friend died, she's the godmother to her kids, and now she's marrying her best friend's husband. Even that alone is fucked up.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, I didn't get the best friend.

[Patrick Hines]

That's bag. Anyway, Molly. That's a red flag anyway, Susie.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She said when they were friends, they were friends. But my thinking on this was just like, okay, maybe you don't wanna be the au pair that married the guy, or you don't wanna be like, so.

[Patrick Hines]

You'D rather marry your best friend's husband.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, but to me, it's the lie. It doesn't even matter what it's like, you're gonna, like, tell your. Like, if I were to tell you that Steve, that like, like under false pretenses, they give you a fake story about how I met Steve, like, it's all like. That to me is the weirdest thing. She and Jason's whole family is like, what the hell is.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause they tell us no one on, quote, the American side knew that Molly was an au pair. She told them all that she was going over there to be a godmother and now she's a stepmother.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But then also, when Molly's real best friend, now her maid of honor, finds out that that was a lie, nothing changes and she just goes ahead and with the wedding.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, yeah, because Molly's a pathological liar.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And so it sort of is just like, oh, there Molly goes again with her lies. Because.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And we also never see that woman again either. Like Molly seems. My point, though is that, like, it seems like Molly doesn't keep friends around, you know what I mean? Because they don't want them, like, tabulating the light. So it's not like if that woman was her best friend, we would see more. We don't get anybody from Molly's life in this documentary except for her dad.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's August 2015 and the investigation is underway and things are about to get more insane because they're learning that Molly lies to everyone.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

She told the lady at her book club that she gave birth to Sarah. Which is like, oh, she is obsessed with these children and she's erasing Mags. And that is really dangerous and really scary.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, not true. And some People there at the book club knew it wasn't true. And Molly knew that those people knew.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That's what I'm laughing at. Like, that's what. It's crazy. It's just. It's crazy that these people. Because I think Molly believes every single thing she's saying.

[Patrick Hines]

But she knows she's telling this lie in front of people who know it's a lie, but it's not stopping her.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But we've had this conversation about other people. I think that people.

[Patrick Hines]

This is not rare.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No, I think that people.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, someone who's done something like.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

So, you know, I think.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I think that Molly, somewhere in her mind, not that she is like. Like inventing memories for herself about actually giving birth, but that she's justified in making up that story because she's been the mom all along. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

That's exactly right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And it's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Doesn't make it any less crazy or fucked up or dangerous or scary.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No, but that's why I laughed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Because it's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, she doesn't. She's just telling these lies in front of people who she knows knows it's a lie. And that doesn't stop her. She also told someone that her sister died of cancer. Did she ever have her sister? Nope. Could die of cancer.

[Julia Pezzavale]

We literally cannot find a documentary in which we're not faking cancer out of control.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's like, oh, this is pathological. This is like a compulsion. This is really bad. And it also, according to the ada, makes Molly lose any and all credibility because three people were in that room that night. Certainly not Sharon. She needed to get her beauty sleep. Tom, her father and former FBI. Definitely going to be on Molly's side. Molly, who's a pathological liar. And Jason, we can't hear his story because they killed him. So, yeah, it's bizarre.

[Julia Pezzavale]

It's. It is really comforting in these instances when the cops aren't falling for the story.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially when we have ex law enforcement.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Usually they're like, what?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Line goes up and the blue wall goes up and they get stars their eyes.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And that guy like Thomas, just also so fucking smug.

[Patrick Hines]

He's very smug. So, Molly, this is when it gets again, we're talking about this specific documentary. If it doesn't apply to you, consider yourself lucky.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Molly was adamant about adopting Jason's kids today. To Netflix. She says, I wanted to adopt them because they were my children. I mean, I was their mommy, I was their mama. They were my Kiddos. I'm telling you, Patrick, it was like getting shot three times in a row. I'm their mommy. I was their mama. They're my kiddos. And I'm like, we gotta stop with this.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Like, the mama bear.

[Patrick Hines]

I know this language that we all do. It's like, too much. And, like, for the love of God, Molly, like, you're not. Because. And, you know, I'm team chosen family. You know this. In this specific instance, she's out of her mind. And she's wrong because she's erasing Mags.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

It's. This isn't like Gabby Petito's family, where she was lucky enough to have four amazing parents.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This woman is acting like Mags didn't exist. She's saying she gave birth to Sarah.

[Julia Pezzavale]

The.

[Patrick Hines]

This isn't like. I don't know if this is cool or not, but, like, people say, like, bonus mom. I don't know if you have a bonus. Whatever. Like, your happy situation is. Yeah, it's not that. And so the fact that she won't even. She's making up lies about the origin story.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I think it's all too. Like, Jason's gonna be out of the picture in her mind, and she's gonna have these kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Like, she went on that au pair site looking for a family that she could steal the kids from.

[Patrick Hines]

And the fact that she's erasing Mags from the narrative is where it's like, oh, that's insane.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That's not what happens when. When you're a step or whatever, or there's a widow or something. Like that person still existed. Yeah. Or otherwise they exist.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And thank God Jason isn't falling for it either.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Pezzavale]

And June 15, 2025 at 11:59pm Eastern Time. So it's August 15, 2015. It's 13 days after Jason's death, and the custody battle is raging because Molly still has possession of the children even though the aunt and the uncle from Ireland are the, like, legal guardians, according to Jason's will.

[Patrick Hines]

And Molly's telling these kids, oh, she's winning. She's showing them the new houses and cars that they're going to have. And, like, I'm like, hi. Their father has been brutally murdered 13 days ago. Are they grieving? And are we ever going to talk about this enormous brick you had on your nightstand, Molly? Like, what is going on?

[Julia Pezzavale]

But a judge shuts it down because.

[Patrick Hines]

Jason's family's like, look, these children are Irish citizens. Their father's an Irish citizen. Nothing was ever signed giving Molly any rights at all. Why is this even?

[Julia Pezzavale]

And it was, like, intentionally not signed.

[Patrick Hines]

And there's an open and active investigation. Why are we. Why are we even here? And the judge is like, girl, hurry, Bye. So, and. But Molly.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Again to Netflix. She's sitting on camera. She put her lip gloss out. Like, she. She knows this is being recorded and sent out to. To the world. She's here to tell her a story. She says to us, all these people, you know, have said, well, Jason wanted his children to be in Ireland with their family. What? Jason wanted to be a little alive. You know, Jason didn't think he was going to die. I didn't think he was going to die. And I don't know if some crazy world where he thought he was going to die. I believe he would have wanted the children to be with their mother. He didn't think he was going to die. And then she catches herself and she goes, I didn't think he was going to die.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

What did you just say to me? I know he wanted to be alive. He didn't think he was going to die. No, Molly, what are you saying to me?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, and, like, I have so many questions about how the death went down and why and what the actual plan was.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I have some theories when we get there.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Who the hell knows?

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know, I know. But also, like, the way that Jack and Sarah both describe the trauma of their last visit with Molly, because Molly's trying to play it out like she has lost. They are going to their aunt and uncle.

[Patrick Hines]

She's in Ireland, like, Very far away.

[Julia Pezzavale]

From Molly and Sarah. And Molly is trying to make it like she's gonna see them again. And, like, Molly describes the kids as, like, kicking and screaming and crying and don't want to go. The kids don't describe it like that. The kids describe being sad. Not really sure what's going on, but, like, kind of going.

[Patrick Hines]

But even if they were kicking and screaming, I would totally get it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They're young kids. They're 8 and 10 years old.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She's their mother to them.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is the only mother they knew because their other mother died when they were very, very young. And Molly has been grooming them and brainwashing them. Yeah, their dad just died. Like, now they're gonna go to these people, live with these people they haven't seen in at least seven years. Yeah, like, that.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I would understand all over.

[Patrick Hines]

I would understand if they were kicking and screaming, saying, I don't want to go. Who are you? Where are you taking me?

[Julia Pezzavale]

When Molly says, I never saw them again, I just wrote, thank God, because I had no idea where this was going.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. So Ireland is up in arms over this case. Everyone is coming out and showing their.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Support, which is good, but also bad. It's like the kids come back. They just want to be normal kids. And like, all of the media circles around this, like, the. The long, protracted funeral, it's all just sort of for the kids. It's all very hard.

[Patrick Hines]

And you know what else is making it harder? Molly. Because it's, like, forced, no contact with the kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Molly is going on social media to try to get in touch with Jack and Sarah. So she's posting. It's very childish, very manipulative, but she's posting photos with emotional captions like a birthday cake saying, tomorrow you will be 11, Jack, I ache to speak to you.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She's also using the media in Ireland. Like, she's going on radio shows crying.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She has hired an airplane to fly. Fly over their school with a message.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, hire. Like, going on social media, tracking people down, being like, you're in class with. With Jack, Right. Can you give him a message for me?

[Julia Pezzavale]

It's so sick. And it's like, this is how you can tell how sick she is. Because if she was actually about the welfare of the kids, she'd be doing it the right way. And one thing I wanted to point out is that David and Tracy, the aunt and the uncle, are trained foster parents. Which I was like, oh, my God. So they. They say, like, we had a leg. This is the thing about foster care. We had so much training to deal with traumatized kids because those are mostly the kinds of kids that you get in the foster care.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because Jack and Sarah are explaining like, our guards were up.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes, of course.

[Patrick Hines]

We didn't know what to do. Like, what? You're gonna, like, feel comfortable in this family too, and then they're gonna get ripped away from you. So it was really, really hard for them. Even though it's family, like, they. Their heads are spinning.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, of course they are. Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

So we get the toxicology report back. Molly and her dad are saying that Jason was hammered. Like fall down drunk hammered. Guess what? That's a fucking lie. The number is 0.02. It's legal to drive in North Carolina at a.08. At the time he died. He was not drunk.

[Julia Pezzavale]

He wasn't even close to drunk at the time he died.

[Patrick Hines]

And you're like, why, like you asked before, like, why would the ex FBI dad lie about something that's so proofable? And I'm like, well, in my experience, to some people, yeah. How provable the lie is doesn't matter. Like, we've seen it many times with Molly, the godmother story, the fake sister with cancer saying she gave birth to Sarah. These are all provable lies. She doesn't care.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Jason also had some of Molly's sleep medication tranquilizer in his system. And Wanda's like, did he take it voluntarily? Did they slip it to him again against his will?

[Patrick Hines]

He wasn't prescribed the trazodone. She was right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And Wanda says, we'll never know, but it's setting off flags for her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And also when it comes to Jason's injuries, his injuries were on the back and the side of his head.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So when Tom is saying that Jason's like facing squaring up to hit Tom.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Because that would be self defense. You can self defense. I believe if you shoot somebody in the back, it's not self defense.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's the thing. Because he said the blood was everywhere and the blood was found in more than one room. The primary bathroom, the hallway, the bedroom. Like the expert says that Jason was being hit after he was already down on the floor and from behind. So it doesn't matter. This, like Ada Allen says, this is murder with malice. Because even if it started as self defense, that first hit, let's just say for the sake of argument, which is not true.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But let's just say that that first hit with the baseball bat was to get him away from Molly. It didn't end that way.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No. And Wanda says once the person stops being aggressive, you have to stop.

[Patrick Hines]

And then no longer self defense. Then it becomes murder with malice.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So there's charged with murder, they get $200,000 bail each. They have to surrender their passports. No contact with Jason's family, specifically the kids, Jack and Sarah.

[Julia Pezzavale]

God.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's five months after Jason's death and Jack and Sarah are still back in Ireland. And like, Jack is really struggling here.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Sarah's like doing great. She's like easy to make friends and, you know, but Jack is just like, he. He loved his life in North Carolina and now he's back there. He doesn't know who he can trust. He doesn't know he has having a hard time meeting people. I think the fact that like, they're kind of celebrities now because everybody in Ireland, for the worst reason ever, for the worst. And every time somebody talks to them about it, they have to relive their trauma.

[Patrick Hines]

And Molly isn't letting them heal by endlessly trying to get in touch with them. And so Jack. And remember, she's groomed them and manipulated them and brainwashed them. So Jack, in like a moment of loneliness and sadness and I completely understand, of course, secretly calls Molly. He's not allowed to. They're not supposed to be speaking, but they have this kind of like secret little back and forth communication.

[Julia Pezzavale]

The first thing we hear the message and the first thing that Jack says is, this is Jack, this can't go public. I miss you and I love you. Keep fighting really hard. I want to know how you are. I love you so much. Call me, pretty please. And then it was just released to the press, which was just a huge betrayal. And that was kind of when my.

[Patrick Hines]

Perspective changed and I started to look.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Things up and I started to. To find out what really happened and gain my own opinions and see what.

[Patrick Hines]

The truth really was.

[Julia Pezzavale]

The first thing he says is, this can't go public.

[Patrick Hines]

And what's the first thing Molly does?

[Julia Pezzavale]

She sends it right to the press.

[Patrick Hines]

She is using these kids as pawns.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She's using it to say, see, they miss me, they love me, like you should. Instead of helping them work. If the truth was really their father was abusive and I, to save myself and them, I had to kill him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And like, there is a way this could have worked. It's like, look, I was a foster parent. I know how this works. Like, I mean, she has no legal claim to these kids, but the right thing to do if she loved these kids. Write to Tracy and David. Send them letters.

[Patrick Hines]

Send an open letter of communication.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Say, like, can, you know, here's a letter to Jack and to Sarah. You can read it first. Please pass it to them so they know I'm thinking about them.

[Patrick Hines]

She wanted these kids. She didn't even want Jason in the picture from the beginning.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She didn't. She doesn't. Mags doesn't exist. Their mother, their birth mother, the family can't exist. She wants her and Sarah and Jack to be this little unit and none of the other people who very much exist in their lives can exist in Molly's world.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes. Yeah. And so in response to Molly completely fucking him with this, like, taking this message public, which, like, he could have gotten in trouble for. Jack says that was when he started to look things up and find out what happened on his own form, his.

[Patrick Hines]

Own opinions, kind of shook him awake.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And so, like, in the middle of DA Allen preparing for the trial, they get word from Jack's family that he wants to, like, talk to the DA and tell them the real truth about what happened.

[Patrick Hines]

Jack flipped. And it's nine months after, after Jason's death, he flips.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he makes an official statement to the prosecution and he's there with a child psychologist while he's making the statement.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And he says, molly made me lie to the people who are interviewing me. She made up a lot of stories about my dad that he was.

[Patrick Hines]

That she. He said that she was very abusive and she wasn't lying. Then she started crying and she said, I'd never see you again. And I didn't know was going on.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She said if I didn't say this, we would never see her again. Saying that to a vulnerable 8 year old who has. Who knows nobody else.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And Sarah confirms this. She said, I just lost my dad. I said what Molly told me to say. And now there's sort of a major aha moment as the viewer of, like, they're here and they say as much. Jack and Sarah are doing this doc to tell the truth and tell the truth about their father and try to get justice for him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And what happens is this. Jack's story about Molly made him lie comes to light as they're preparing for to go to trial. And so when all of this evidence is presented to the judge, the judge decides those early recordings, that the interviews that were made when Jack was 10 and Sarah was 8 are not going to be admissible because they're bullshit. Because they're lies.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And so the jury is never going to hear the bullshit lies that Jason was abusing Molly.

[Patrick Hines]

Understandable lies. They were children, but everything they said was bullshit.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Coached by Molly, which it was so obvious by the words they use and their demeanor. It was very clear, but we just needed official confirmation that that was the case.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So everyone's like, why did this happen? Let's go to the emails.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And so Tracy's going through the emails and the messages. She's getting DMS from their neighbors and she's learning that, like, their relationship was fucked. Like, and it was actually Molly who was abusive to Jason.

[Patrick Hines]

Very much so, yes. And Jason, you know, there are emails from Jason to Molly, Jason saying, is there anything I could do to make you happ happy? I've done everything. You still hate yourself, Hit yourself, cry in the shower, vomit, curse, shout at me. I feel so inadequate. I've done everything. Nothing is ever enough. I don't know what to do. And then Molly goes like, well, no matter what, you think something's wrong. Like, they. This is really bad and really manipulative.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And we're getting stories from the neighbors that, like, Molly's fat, shaming him in front of people at parties.

[Patrick Hines]

It says Jason and Molly were at a party the Friday before and she was belittling him, calling him a fat ass, saying that he must have taken all the nutrition from his twin because he looked like he had eaten for two. Belittling him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And making him feel so bad that he leaves events early and just, like, publicly humiliating him in front of the friends that she dragged him to meet.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

From Ireland.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And like, Tracey's got all the records, he is texting his other friends, calling Molly crazy, saying he can't wait to get out of there. He's hoping to get back to Ireland with the kids without her.

[Patrick Hines]

So he was. The relationship is essentially. Yes. Jason is about to leave Molly with the kids. And as we know, this is the most dangerous time for someone in an abusive situation. And he was telling people about it, which is the smart thing to do if you can do it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not saying if you don't do it, you're an idiot. I'm saying, of course we have proof of him saying, I've done everything I can. She's abusive. This is horrible. I'm taking my kids home with me to Ireland.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And there was a very, very clear plan of this. So it's July 2017. We're already at closing arguments of the trial.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. There's a reason why we're going to breeze right over this. So basically Molly and Tom are convicted. They have second degree murder. They each get 20 to 25 years. Like there's still half a documentary to get through.

[Patrick Hines]

Why are they both sitting here in jumpsuits? And why do we still have 50 minutes left of this thing?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jason's fan, they're like, okay, great. Jason's family is going to try to.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Heal now and like Jack and Sarah are finally feeling like they can finally be. They settle into the family with Tracy and David. They're like, these are my mom and dad, these are my brothers. Like every, they feel good and secure for the first time in their lives.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're happy to be in Ireland. They want to be away from Molly and her family. They just want to heal and do what they can to put this behind them in a healthy way and just grieve both of their parents.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And just sort of do the best they can. Everything was great until it wasn't right. And now we meet these two fucking asshole pieces of shit.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The lawyers for the two murderers, Jay and Doug.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And like you can tell as they are even telling the story that even they don't believe the stories that they're telling you here. I know exactly why are you here.

[Patrick Hines]

Doing, doing such a disservice to real survivors of abuse, I ask you.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And, and, and, and ruining these kids lives all over again.

[Patrick Hines]

So they're like, oh, we're going to tell you what really happened. I'm like, yeah, fucking right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Let me save us 30 minutes. What their story of what really happened is is what Jack and Sarah told the very first interviews. Like the lies that Molly made them tell. What these lawy found this old interview that the first jury never saw. We've seen all of this because it's.

[Patrick Hines]

Been judge ruled that it's bullshit.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So what they're going to do is they're going to take these lies, the statements and I'm not saying that disparagingly.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

What the kids were groomed to say when they were 8 and 10 years old and then reverse engineer a story to make it look like Jason's abusive.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And like this is basically what happens. Like we learned that they take this to the North Carolina Court of Appeals, they side with the bad guys. It goes to the North Carolina Supreme Court who also sides with the bad guys. Which means that Molly and Tom, the killers are given a new trial and let go. And when the new trial happens, these tapes are now gonna be admissible.

[Patrick Hines]

Right Even though we know that they're bullshit. And the reason nobody heard them is because they're lies that Molly fed the kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I just saved y' all 40 minutes.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you. Also, do you wanna know about the brick on the nightstand? You wanna know that line?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The brick on the nightstand was there supposedly because Molly and the kids were gonna paint it and put it by the mailbox, which. Kind of a weird place to keep the bride.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, just keep it right by the nightstand. Also, we're gonna learn that, like, Molly's family was laying the groundwork for this kind of shit the whole time. The grandmother gave Jack and Sarah each a password. I could just say peacock. And then I hung up the phone.

[Patrick Hines]

And she would come over to our house from Tennessee.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Do you remember when she came up with that?

[Julia Pezzavale]

A few weeks before my dad died.

[Patrick Hines]

The Tikok thing happened. What about their phone numbers? Did you have those written down anywhere?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Under a doll. She also hid her phone number under a doll in one of their bedrooms so the kids would have it and their dad wouldn't know that they had it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's all ridiculous, but the point.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Of it is to lay the groundwork so that someday they could say, look, they needed a password. Look, they needed to hide the phone number.

[Patrick Hines]

And on top of that, Molly starts, quote, documenting the abuse. And that Molly. And again, I am talking only about Molly in this specific situation. She tries really hard to convince us that Jason was abusive, but she's honestly not even trying that hard because everything she says, it's all very vague. No emotion, not one single specific story. But we have this, quote, documentation. She's documenting the abuse, but she also tells us she's documenting, quote, motherhood so that there would be a record that I was their mom.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Her whole motivation is keeping these kids. And she tells us a million times.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Herself, what is so infuriating and was very hard to watch and listen to was that somebody in the neighborhood, a family attorney, tells Molly she needs to document the abuse. And Molly takes that to mean secretly recording Jason.

[Patrick Hines]

She calls them voice activated recording devices.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She's hiding them all over the house. Jason doesn't know they're there. This is. I was very nervous about talking about this because. Because I believe victims. Right. Like I believe when people say that they are being abused. I believe that.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But what we're. What we know of Molly is that she is manipulating everything to try to a turn the kids on Jason. She's trying to isolate the kids from Jason. And so we hear These excerpts of these tapes in the presence of Molly's new legal team.

[Patrick Hines]

They think that they're damning. They think this is a bombshell.

[Julia Pezzavale]

So Jason is yelling at Molly, but what he's yelling at her is, can you look at me?

[Patrick Hines]

Can you have some respect?

[Julia Pezzavale]

I asked you to have dinner with my family. You said you were feeding the kids. That's why I said no, because you ignored what that Sarah looked in a. My family.

[Patrick Hines]

Go and sit down and finish your food.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Who cares what he says?

[Patrick Hines]

Don't send him out of the room again when I'm talking.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You don't have the right. Can I be alone with my kids for half an hour? Can you leave me alone to be with my kids for a little bit? Like, Jason is fully aware that Molly is trying to turn the kids against him. And that's what he's yelling at her.

[Patrick Hines]

About because he's upset. They play this and they're kind of smirking like, hello to this.

[Julia Pezzavale]

We got. We got it.

[Patrick Hines]

This is a nothing burger, right? Jason's upset because he wanted to have dinner with his kids and he wanted Molly to wait for him. She didn't wait for him. Jason says, well, that's what I asked. And you ignored it and you fed them anyway.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Molly argues semantics with him. She's picking fights because she's trying to get. She knows it's being recorded and he doesn't. He doesn't. So she's playing the demure little flower and she's baiting him, and she's trying to get the reaction she wants to send off and say, see? See, see? She knows exactly what she's doing. So Molly is picking the fight with him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And she goes, well, I asked you if you wanted soup and you said no. And Jason goes, well, I didn't want soup.

[Julia Pezzavale]

What a tactic to secretly record a call and pick a fight.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, are you kidding me? And he's like, well, I didn't want. I thought we were eating as a family, Molly. So. So I said no to the soup.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, don't. Like, don't make arguments where there aren't any.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And when you hear Jason on these tapes saying, I know you're going to try to take my kids, but I'm going to take them from you. And they, like, Jason is fully on. They're saying that that is abusive to her. He is fully onto her.

[Patrick Hines]

But the expert goes, whatever. Her expert is, for lack of a better term, this guy who's smirking, thinking that he's going to convince us that Jason was the abuser. Jason doesn't want a solution to a problem. He wants a problem to complain about. I'm like, did you listen to the same thing I did?

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

She's the one bitching about Sou.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

She's picking a fight where there isn't one. And then Molly tries to discipline the kids mid fight.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, she's trying to get them out of the room. Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jason says, don't send them out of the room when I'm speaking to them. He says, you don't have the right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she doesn't. I feel insane. Yeah, but like, she's so clearly pushing in.

[Julia Pezzavale]

In another context, though, that would be so fucked up. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm talking about this context. Molly is doing all of this on purpose and she's recording this thing because where's the audio from the night of the murder?

[Julia Pezzavale]

Or. But like, where's the audio of him hitting her or choking her guy? Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You manipulating him every step of the way and picking a fight to make him angry at you.

[Julia Pezzavale]

What is so heartbreaking?

[Patrick Hines]

There's the audio from the night of the murder.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't exist.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I thought your father was up there protecting you. That's when you had the recordings for.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, and if she's hiding these. Record these recording devices all over the house, you would think there'd be several in the bedroom.

[Patrick Hines]

It's infuriating. This is the best you have.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And what's so. What's so sad? To me, the thing that really broke my heart was you hear Sarah at one point just go, stop fighting.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course she did.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And, and, but what is. It's not Jason that's abusing her, and it's in this. It's. Molly is creating that trauma in Sarah in that moment.

[Patrick Hines]

The thing is, if you go even back further, Jason made a request. She didn't make that request on purpose to make him mad. She acted. He. She knew that he wanted to have a family dinner with his kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

She purposely robbed. Robbed him of that to record him and make him mad about it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That's fucked.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And like, my thing to these experts is you know that they know that. You know that they know that. So it's like. Like you're just lying. Like you're just. You're just. Like you're just. You're getting paid to knowingly lie.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, anyone making a secret recording in a relationship can manipulate it in any relationship, romantic or otherwise. Like it's Just so, like, fucking obvious. So, Jack, this is where it's all coming to a head.

[Julia Pezzavale]

When I kind of really started to notice it was when I found the recording.

[Patrick Hines]

Recording device in my dad's car.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And I showed it to him, and he was absolutely shocked to see it in there. And he said, how do you feel about moving back to Ireland? And Sarah said, without Mommy?

[Patrick Hines]

And my dad said, yes. And I knew Molly would not like that. What if we all went back to Ireland without Molly? Like, this is what I mean. It happens to all types of people. Everyone. Men, women, non binary, trans. It happens to everyone. He's about to leave. It is the most dangerous time for someone in an abusive relationship, and we are living it well.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And now we finally find out why. Tom and Sharon, the grandparents, are there for the weekend. So in Tom's interview, he's like, oh, we had nothing going on that weekend. It was a four hour drive. It was a nice weekend. We thought we would just go visit the family.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a beautiful day. Let's spend it driving four hours to Molly's house. Let's make that decision, spur the moment totally. And let's. Without asking a family with two young children, if that's okay.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And so Alan, the DA is like, that is not true. We found out that he had a very important business meeting with his boss that night that he canceled last minute. Like, once again, Tom, did you not plan to get away with this at all?

[Patrick Hines]

So this like, lackadaisical Saturday story is bullshit.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And so what really happened was Molly, like, today's the day, dad, you got to get here.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, were you fired from the FBI because you weren't very good at this.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I'm very good at this.

[Patrick Hines]

The ADA was like, he knows the art of interrogation. He taught others.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

He's lying about provable things, like how hammered Jason was. Jason, maybe I had half a glass of wine.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right. But I'm really wondering, like, did he know he had to get there that day? Because Molly's like, today, they're going to leave. I need you here now.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the prosecution's theory is that Tom did not drive four hours across state lines to commit murder. Yeah, but Molly manipulated what he calls an explosive event. So she wanted Jason to blow up and have her parents there as witnesses.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And they're saying not to kill him.

[Patrick Hines]

She could apply for a domestic violence protective order, which would remove him from the house, and then she can file for emergency custody of the children and take his children away from him.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And then she could file for emergency custody of the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

So then it's so fucked. It's so fucked. And then the theory is that this event that she manipulated got violent.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jason died. And that is for lack of a better term, good for Molly because it's also a way to get his kids.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But my, my thinking there is. I just don't think that she could have done anything that would have pushed him to actually choke her in front of her dad.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I think she lied to her. Her father.

[Julia Pezzavale]

So it got violent somehow. Maybe. Was she the one that got violent?

[Patrick Hines]

Probably. And then, and it also doesn't matter. Like she could scream from upstairs, dad, dad, he's gonna kill me.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

And then things got bad. Things got a little too out of hand. And then Tom X FBI says this is what we said.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Well, it's funny because he's not gonna, he's not gonna like lay hands on her. But I could see like the shitty fucking grandpa comes into the room. And now all of a sudden the fight is on.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

And then, so Tom can say, Molly never hit him. I did. And I was defending my daughter. Oh. That's why Jason's body was cold. When the EMTs FBI, Tom said we gotta hold on.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They came up with the story.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh my God. So it's seven years after Jason's death, right? The pre trial hearing and Jack. This is where we saw the footage from the beginning of like Jack and Sarah getting in the car. They're going to be there for the pretrial hearing and they don't even have a date yet set for the new trial and they're hoping it's going to be the summer.

[Patrick Hines]

It's weird because Molly won't even look at the kids. Molly and her father. And I'm like, weren't the kids the whole point? Because they love them so much.

[Julia Pezzavale]

That's the thing. Like when walk in they, they haven't seen Molly in seven years and she won't even look at them.

[Patrick Hines]

Like. And then I'm just like, oh my God. These people, even when you're watching them in a documentary, they make you feel crazy. Like the people who lie like this, they make you feel insane. Because I'm like, I thought you loved them so much.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, jillian, shut up. It doesn't matter. They don't care. No one's listening.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Into the void yet again.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And Jack is now telling us what it was really like when they moved to America the first time. That it was actually not the bed of roses that he was saying it was, especially with his relationship with Molly.

[Patrick Hines]

Myself and Sarah used to have pictures of.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Of our biological mother in our rooms.

[Patrick Hines]

And she took the picture off me and hid it.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I feel that Molly wanted to be the only mother that existed, that there.

[Patrick Hines]

Was no one else before her.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Molly took it and hid it and wouldn't give it back.

[Patrick Hines]

That is a major wreck of.

[Julia Pezzavale]

It's insane. And he's saying Molly was much closer with Sarah. She was a star child. There was one time that his dad left for a work trip, and Jack had the audacity to say that he loved his dad. As his dad was walking out the door, Molly chases them up the stairs and trashes his bedroom.

[Patrick Hines]

Which, first of all, is proof that she's violent.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Number one. And what is that quote where it's like, accusations are really confessions with these people. Where it's like, Molly's giving all these statements about Jason, quote, flying off the handle.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right, right, exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Jason's own son can't be like, love you, dad. See you later. Without her destroying, like, and again, like, I just want to go back for two seconds about not letting them have pictures of their mother.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That is like, oh, she's fudgeing out of her mind. She's trying to replace Mags. And also, Mags didn't exist.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, it's not okay. Like, you don't give a shit about these kids. You don't give a shit about them.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Why does she need to have them?

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's fun for these people, honestly. Like, I think it's. She needs to win. And it's all. Because, again, like, she's even pitting Jack and Sarah against each other. And then, like, she would always be like, well, don't you love me? What? You only love your father. You don't love me. It's this weird competition. Like, we will never be able to make sense of it. Yeah, it's infuriating.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Speaking of things we're not going to be able to make sense of, we're going to go through this quickly. But we take this left turn now where Molly's whole family is now trying to say that Jason actually killed Mags, his first wife. I mean, it's literally insane. And Tom, I don't know how this meeting happened or why, but Tom is saying that he once had Mags's parents over to his house in North. Wherever he lives in Tennessee for a drink one night and asked the dad what he thought of Jason. And the dad said, I think he killed my daughter, Tom.

[Patrick Hines]

We have the audio of Tom telling the story of the cops. He's going on about Mags's dad. He's, quote, not a very educated man, very hard to understand. It's another dog whistle, right. You can hear it by the way he says his name. He's like, his name is Mikey Fitzpatrick.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Kind of like. Like a dumb, drunk Irishman. Like, oh, you know the type.

[Julia Pezzavale]

But he truly believes this guy is stupid because we are going to get an affidavit from the dad later on where he's like, I never fucking said that. I met this guy one time, right? I loved my daughter. I loved Jason. Jason was my son.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I have no. No thought that he killed my daughter. And then, like, we're going to get this whole conspiracy that she died of the asthma attack. Now, I said earlier that sounded weird. I didn't mean that. I wasn't implying anything. Nef. Just I've not heard it before. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And so, like, we get the account from Mags sister Catherine, who was there when Mags died. And she said, Jason pounded on my door at 2 in the morning. Mags is having a really bad episode. I went to the kitchen. Mags had her. Her asthma inhaler. She was doing everything she could. Jason was doing everything she could, and she died. And it was tragic.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Once again, Tom, former FBI, telling this lie that is so easily disprovable.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, the. The pathology runs in the family.

[Patrick Hines]

100%. I think she learned the apple does not fall far from the tree.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

As we've said seemingly every episode lately.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But moving on from this bullshit.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. It never happened.

[Patrick Hines]

Never happened. God. So. But it gets. They. They actually try to pin it on Sarah in a minute, which makes me insane.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

October 23rd, 2023. Eight years after Jason's death, the prosecution is like, look, these people are real slimy, and we don't want to take any chances. We don't want anything to go sideways, sideways at trial. They're playing real dirty.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You don't want to mess with this. So they try to start some plea negotiations. Molly Corbett, she pled no contest to that charge of voluntary manslaughter. And Thomas Martins, he pled guilty to the charge of voluntary manslaughter. Now, they also say his exemplary career in the FBI and upholding the law should warrant an easier sentence. So both sides lay out their cases to the judge, and now the judge decides the sentences.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, are they going to get time served? Are they going to be free? Jason's family's terrified.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, their previous sentence was, like, 25 to 50 years.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so in this hearing, Molly's lawyers bring up all of the mysterious death and all this bullshit that we just deemed bullshit. Then they blame Sarah for both deaths.

[Julia Pezzavale]

For waking up both times.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. She had a nightmare when Jason died and she was hungry or something. When Mags died, she was just existing as a young child.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

These people are fucking vile. And they're all sitting here telling us, looking me in the face and telling me that this all makes sense.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's they're on the right side of history.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And then, you know, Jack and Sarah get to give their victim impact statements. I wish that we could have heard them read live. I think. I think it's a voiceover from later online, too. Yeah. They're in the car, on the way.

[Patrick Hines]

My favorite part.

[Julia Pezzavale]

It's so amazing. They're on the way to court to deliver their victim impact statements, and they put on a song called Chicken Fried, which is a song that Jack used to listen to with his dad. And it's just like southern country song that they're all singing and holding each other's hands. But then they get to the courthouse.

[Patrick Hines]

Time for crying is over.

[Julia Pezzavale]

No time to get a angry in there.

[Patrick Hines]

Head up, shoulders back. These people, they're l to us.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, yeah. Come on, give it to us. What are we going to do? Let's do it. These people, they are nothing to us.

[Patrick Hines]

David, get that tattooed.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Put it in the Louvre. He's like, tits out, you guys, let's go first.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's do this. So they make their statements. Their dad was never abusive. Molly and her family have been horrifying. Molly was grooming them, manipulating them. Their dad is a victim. Please don't be fooled by Molly and her family, like, just begging the court. And so what ends up happening is that Molly and her father end up getting about eight months for murdering Jason in maybe the most violent way that all the law enforcement and lawyers have ever seen in their lives.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Like in us.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Molly is still talking about herself.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, well, they certainly don't see me as their mother. They hate me.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah. And I was their mother in another lifetime.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, they think I'm awful. And they think their dad was so wonderful. But will I always think of myself as their one and only mother? Yes, of course I will.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

You're out of your Mind.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I just. Like, the last five minutes of this, I just, like, stopped taking notes because I was crying so hard.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it's like, Jason's family.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know. And, like, everyone's just trying to do the best they can. Like, the kids are sad, but they're. They're trying to do okay. And I don't know. It. It's. I mean, this woman, she's just out there. She's out there, and she's gonna do this again.

[Patrick Hines]

And look, we know. I mean, unless she gets a new hairdo or whatever, like, at least she's showing herself, right? At least we can maybe be aware. Like, if you're in the Carolinas or Tennessee or wherever she is. Like, just be careful if someone you love is in her web. Like, please tell them. Show them this.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And that is the value of documentaries. Like, this is that, like, maybe they can save another family from this evil, evil woman.

[Patrick Hines]

And you know what? So Sarah, I have some updates.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Sarah is on TikTok.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

Two books.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

A children's book called Noodle Loses dad, and her new book is called A Time for Truth.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

And Tracy wrote a book called My Brother Jason. Molly's ex fiance, Keith, also wrote a book long before anyone knew any of this.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Can we get, like, a new edition of that book, please? Thank you.

[Patrick Hines]

She had no business being an au pair. She lied about all of it. There's also a lot that I read today that Netflix apparently left out. Like, there was.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I'm like, I couldn't take one more minute of this documentary, so thank you.

[Patrick Hines]

There was a lot of evidence that Jason had plans to leave.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, there's apparently evidence that Molly found out about the plans. Like, he usually kept his passports in his office. And I read today that, like, the passports were at home kind of in a more accessible way. And, like, as we know, this is the most dangerous time. And so, like, apparently, Molly's dad had shown up to Jason's office, like, demanding he be seen. I'm ex FBI. Don't you know who I am?

[Julia Pezzavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, Jason's son Jack said that Molly's Uncle Bobby took all of Jason's laptops, computers, phones, all his hard drives, and, like, no one knows where they are. So they were trying to get rid of, like, the proof that he was, like, he was looking at flights or whatever.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, Jason was out the door with his kids, and there's, like, more proof that it was right under Molly's nose.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Never imagined violence like this could Happen to him. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

And it can happen to anybody.

[Julia Pezzavale]

To anybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, people are fucking crazy.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Girl. We did. I can't say the name of it. What's it called?

[Patrick Hines]

A Deadly American Marriage.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I mean, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

You, Molly, and you, Tom. Hope you have miserable day.

[Julia Pezzavale]

She's probably a subscriber. She probably listens.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope she doesn't. I don't want the download. I don't want to click.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Get out of here. Get out, get out, fam. Don't forget, check us out over on our discord. How do they find it?

[Patrick Hines]

We have a link to it in this very episode in our show Notes.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Okay, great. And like, in the Facebook group, I'm sure there's a featured post or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's very fun.

[Julia Pezzavale]

And go watch us on YouTube. It's so. We have over 10,000 subscribers.

[Patrick Hines]

That's amazing.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Isn't that amazing?

[Patrick Hines]

That is amazing. I hope you're all enjoying it. Everyone.

[Julia Pezzavale]

I look at it, I love it. Like, imagine watching this. Like, it's like we have a TV.

[Patrick Hines]

Show and 6,000 people are doing it, which is crazy.

[Julia Pezzavale]

What are we doing next?

[Patrick Hines]

Worst roommate ever, episode three, Burning down the House.

[Julia Pezzavale]

God, more of that show. I love that show.

[Patrick Hines]

It's very well done.

[Julia Pezzavale]

It is.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, at least we're trying to get awareness with all these horrifying documents, you know?

[Julia Pezzavale]

I know it's true.

[Patrick Hines]

Stay safe out there, everyone. We love you.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Yeah, we love you. Stay tuned for the trailer for that and we'll see you next time.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. Except if you're Molly or Tom, then.

[Julia Pezzavale]

We hate you, though.

[Patrick Hines]

We hate you so much.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Okay, bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Just want to be clear about that. It's very important to me that I'm clear about that.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Totally. Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

Crystal. Great name.

[Julia Pezzavale]

When I was getting ready to get.

[Patrick Hines]

Out of the military, I needed a place to stay. And Tammy Fritz, she called me up.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Out of the blue talking about, hey, yeah, I've got an extra room.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, you can stay with us. You know, she's offering me a place.

[Julia Pezzavale]

To stay rent free.

[Patrick Hines]

I would say that I was both surprised and relieved. That was just that whole dumb luck thing.

[Julia Pezzavale]

Here I am making a big change.

[Patrick Hines]

No clue where I'm going to go, and an opportunity has presented itself to me. So I was like, well, shit, that saved me from having to find an apartment or anything because I literally had no plan.